Jacob Prasch – Moderate Calvinists are Good, Hyper Calvinists are Bad.

Jacob Prasch

One of Satan’s greatest lies is to try and convince you that there are different types of Calvinists, that being the moderate Calvinist and then the hyper Calvinist.  It is a load of nonsense.  All Calvinists are Calvinists who follow a doctrine compiled by demons and their pope is John Calvin a murderer of men, women and children.

Moriel Ministries says,

“While Moriel and Jacob Prasch are not Calvinistic and do not accept unconditional “Once Saved Always Saved” (as neither did John Wesley), a distinction must be made between moderate Calvinists and extreme ones.  While we do not agree with John MacArthur on a few issues (his interpretation of eternal security and Cessationism), most of his ministry is otherwise very good.”  [Emphasis added] —http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/church-issues/aberrational-theology/dan-corner

So Jacob Prasch believes in the 5 points of Calvinism is seems as he only has a problem with his “interpretation of eternal security and Cessationism”.  Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries love to talk out both sides of their mouth.  They say they are not Calvinists, but they support the doctrine of Calvinism (excluding one or 2 issues) and they support preachers of Calvinism.  For instance Jacob Prasch and Moriel Ministries often quote George Whitefield a Calvinist.

When it comes to understanding TULIP.  “It is necessary to note, moreover, that the Five Points of Calvinism are understood by many to be an interrelated, harmonious, self-contained system; thus, rejecting one point is tantamount to rejecting every point, and the falsity of one point falsifies the whole system.”[1] [Emphasis added]     You can’t be a 3 or 4 point Calvinist – there is no such thing, and anyone who says they are does not understand the doctrine of Calvinism.

Let’s look at the following individuals and see if they are moderate Calvinists, hyper Calvinists or just plain CALVINISTS who follow a doctrine of demons.  All these individuals believe the following:  Mark Driscoll, R C Sproul, Albert Mohler, Robert Morey, George Whitefield, Ray Comfort, Paul Washer, John Piper,  J C Ryle, Charles Spurgeon, John MacArthur, James White, Don Fortner….etc

  1.  Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
    • Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not–indeed he cannot–choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ–it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation–it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.
  2. Unconditional Election
    • God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God’s choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God’s choice of the sinner, not the sinner’s choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
  3.  Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
    • Christ’s redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ’s redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
  4. Irresistible Grace
    • In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man’s will, nor is He dependent upon man’s cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God’s grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.
  5. Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Thomas Lessing says:

If God is the essence of love, which of course He is, then the slightest misrepresentation of his love cannot possibly be called the truth. Both gentlemen, Paul Washer and John MacArthur, believe that Jesus did not die for everyone. Paul Washer is a wee bit more subtle in his approach to this particular “truth” and never says outrightly “Jesus did not die for everyone” but cunningly says in many of his videos on YouTube: “Jesus died the death OF HIS PEOPLE.” Who are his people? Well, of course, the elect only are God’s people. This is the kind of blasphemy John MacArthur and many other Calvinists spew out on their congregants and on the internet.

Let’s have a look and see how good John MacArthur’s ministry is along with some other Calvinists mentioned above:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=6zrS5Bzd-qk%3F

Is it true that Jesus Christ was crucified only for his people (a select few chosen ones)? If it is true, it must be from God. If not, then it is a lie and all lies emanate from the father of all lies, Satan himself. Calvinism is arguably one of the most dangerous doctrines on our planet. Everything they say about the doctrines of sanctification and living a life of holiness and absolute obedience to God is commendable but as soon as it comes to the very core of God’s will for all men, the salvation of their souls, they have it sorely wrong which borders dangerously on blasphemy.

The Calvinists’ view that God only loves the elect and that consequently Jesus only died for them, is nothing short of a partial denial of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. What else could it be than a partial denial of Jesus Christ’s incarnation when He, according to the Calvinists’ doctrines, did not die for the non-elect? If He was not crucified for the non-elect, it follows that He was not born (incarnated) for them either.

What does the Bible say about those who deny the incarnation of Jesus Christ, albeit a partial or complete denial?

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:3)

Some history about the murderous John Calvin:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WBypS545ab0%3F

See the following articles on John MacArthur:

That John MacArthur DENIES the precious blood of Jesus Christ and denies that it was applied in heaven: John MacArthur – Blood of Jesus Liquid / Never applied in Heaven

John Mac Arthur also believes in Lordship Salvation (Lordship Salvation – Putting the Cart Before the Horse) which is a works based salvation.  He also says that not all elected Calvinists are promised a place in heaven as it depends on how holy they are throughout their life – this sounds incredibly similar to Islam. (http://www.soulwinning.info/wolves/macarthur-confusing.htm) and there is so much more.

John MacArthur also says you can take the Mark of the Beast, repent and still be saved:  John MacArthur – Take Mark of the Beast and Still be Saved and  Grace to You and John MacArthur – Take Mark of the Beast – No Recant

See latest article here on John MacArthurs Orbital Hermeneutics


Notes:

[1]  Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1932), 59.

[2]  Romans: An Interpretative Outline (pp. 144-147), by David N. Steele and Curtis C. Thomas /  Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1932)

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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22 Comment authors
Deborah (Discerning the World)ScottRobThomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid)Denis Recent comment authors
Sue
Guest
Sue

[delete]

Sue
Guest
Sue

[delete]

Jim F
Guest
Jim F

Deborah,

I acknowledge your position and respect your choices to not allow regular posters from XPM to comment here. In light of that please let me post this as my final response here to John, Carolyn, and Redemmed.

Redeemed,

If you agree with Ironside then I agree with you about a great many things. Especially in light of his statment here:

“No man believes the Gospel and rests in it for his
own salvation until he has judged himself as a needy sinner before God. And this is repentance.”

I would say the same thing.

Carolyn,

I agree with this: “These were people that professed Christianity but they had no relationship with Christ. They were acting out of their own works from a sinful disposition, and seduced by religious activity. They thought they were Christians but they were not.”

I would add that they did not ever put their faith in Christ to save them. Also the only way one can have a relationship with God as Father is to be born again – that is to come to Him through faith in His Son. The Bible is clear on that.

John,

All I am saying is that the speed to which people grow in sanctification is not equal – not because of God but because of the fact that God expects us to draw near to Him – James 4. Yes, all believers have the new man. That is how I take that verse. I also know though that the old man is not eradicated. Paul talks about this in Romans 7. It is just that with the new man and Holy Spirit we are able to live for Christ and should do good works out of the Spirit’s filling and control. The problem comes in whenever we as believers choose to act out in the old man and fail to put on the new man so to speak. See the book of Ephesians, where we as beleivers, are told to put on the new man. Why would we be told to do that if it were automatic?

That wraps up what I have to say here. Any further discussion would have to be via email or at my blog. Jack may not allow it at XPM and Deborah likewise may not allow it here.

Thanks

Jim F

TruthfulConversation
Guest
TruthfulConversation

I cannot believe that Sue has the outright cheek to come back here! Two words…stirrer and backstabber.

John Chingford
Guest
John Chingford

Hi Jim F

You stated above in comment 93:

“Any further discussion would have to be via email or at my blog. Jack may not allow it at XPM and Deborah likewise may not allow it here”

I would indeed like to have a proper email conversation with you.

I HAVE actually written comments/questions to you on your blog but none of them were published by you. Why not? Or is it possible it went directly to your spam folder and got automatically deleted? If the latter is the cause, then how can I communicate with you? You state that I could email you but YOU DO NOT GIVE your email address on your blog either.

What is the point of you giving such gestures to communicate with you if you have ACTUALLY made it impossible to do so??????

Incidentally, as Debs blog DTW is the only way for ther two of us to communicate, then I ask you not to go away but continue on here (unless you can make a way for me to communicate with you elsewhere).

By the way, Sue (and others) were banned from this site because of their nastiness and deliberate attempts to hijack the blog. You (however) are much more gracious and reasonable in your approach. Therefore, I am happy to communicate with you here and have a SENSIBLE conversation.

Another reason that Sue has been banned is because of her personal vendetta against me. She has spread nasty slander about me on other blogs and followed me around trying to poison others against me and my blog. Yet she has the cheek/lies/paranoia to tell everyone that I have been stalking her. I find her to be a dangerous individual. So Jim WATCH YOUR BACK! Woe to you if you write anything she objects to!

John Chingford
Guest
John Chingford

Hi Debs

Here is an interesting comment by Jim F (on his blog) in his defence of DTW to Sue. I think (from that) that this proves that Jim F does not have an agenda (like the rest of the EX P crowd) to hijack your blog. He seems to be a reasonable man who we CAN have dialogue with.

This is what Jim wrote:

http://standforthefaith.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/how-to-be-saved-in-their-own-words-part-1-ray-comfort/#comment-54

lindar68
Guest
lindar68

Martin Horan wrote:

No matter which way I look at Calvin’s teaching, it strikes me as blasphemous. It’s not only unbiblical but it’s illogical. It contradicts itself. Dave Hunt’s “What Love is this?” is the definitive book on Calvinism. It is a virtual masterpiece on the subject.
Dave has written another book worth reading called “A Calvinist’s Honest Doubts.” “Honest Doubts” and George L. Bryson’s “The Five Points of Calvinism” are two smaller books but they sum up all the basics of Calvinist doctrine and they are excellent books for those who don’t have the time or inclination to go into Calvinism as a deeper study. The comments an analysis in all three of these books are irrefutable. However, that won’t stop Calvinsits arguing against them.
Satan himself is a wishful thinker [Rev 12:12] but he plans to go out with his guns blazing [ibid] denying what he knows to be true. Calvinists–I guess like people in all cults–have a similar mindset.

Amen Martin! I am now re-reading What Love Is This? for the fourth time. Dave Hunt’s book Honest Doubts is simply excerpts from 3 or 4 chapters of What Love Is This? I have not read George L. Bryson’s book The Five Points of Calvinism, but Dave Hunt did quote him quite a bit.

I agree that there really is no “gray” area when it comes to the heresy of Calvinism. Calvinism is Calvinism.

Princess
Guest

Polemical thinking can never be a road to balanced truth. In correcting an error, it creates a different error, often more dangerous than the original one.

Redeemed wrote:

Abe # 10 & 11
You believe in “free grace”? In other words that repentance has no place in coming to Christ? Biblical repentance is NOT Lordship salvation! Free grace leads to false conversions and that is a grave danger.
I hope you have not fallen into the trap over there at expreacherman. Expreacherman is against Lordship salvation but have taken it to a ridiculous extreme.

Denis
Guest
Denis

The bible teaches that there will be false teachers and also great deception in the
end times. I listen and compare what is said with the word of God and look to the Lord
for guidance. The word does tell us that if a man speaks not according to the word of God
it is because there is no light in him. I do believe that it is neccessary for people to repent and accept Jesus Christ as saviour Jesus himself said unless you repent you will
perish.i also believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and life that without him no man
will see God the Father.I have made mistakes as a born again christian,so did others i
am by no means perfect, but i do not want to sin and have no desire to.Is there a change
in my life. I can honestly answer that by saying without doubt yes and a big change.The
thing is that it is the Lord God that brought about the change in me.Glory belongs to God.The bible teaches that every man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling.God judges all things, and will judge all those who has and do bring false doctrine.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Denis wrote:

The bible teaches that every man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling

I’m sure you know this means that what God has worked in you, you must work out so that others may see the difference in your life. It does not mean that you have to contribute to your salvation.

Rob
Guest
Rob

The Bible says clearly that you cannot LOSE your Salvation. It also clearly says that nobody or nothing else external to you can take it from you! But absolutely NOWHERE does it say that you as a believer cannot FORSAKE your salvation and in fact many passages state you can!

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Rob,

If nothing external can take salvatation from a saint what makes the internal so strong that it can? Jesus said,

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (Joh 10:27-30).

Are you greater than God that you can snatch yourself out of his hand?

In any case, someone who is truly saved will NEVER regret his or her salvation and walk away from God. Those who do were never saved in the first place.

For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (2 Co 7:10)

Read this article.

Scott
Guest
Scott

Hi could you please tell me where you got the moriel ministries comment (” where moriel ministries says: is not calvanistic and does not support unconditional once saved always saved , a distinction should be made between moderate calvanists and hyper -calvanists . And i agree with John MacArthur on a few things”) etc…..in this article? Perhaps can you provide the article it came from or a link to his comment so i can read Jacob’s comment for myself? I copied and pasted the link below the moriel ministries comment but i coukd not find jacob’s comment as you have it stated here- fyi Thank you

Scott
Guest
Scott

Thank you for the link!! I was not implying that you were lying or being shady. I used that quote from this article to debate somone else and he wanted the date of the article is why i needed proof, so thank you. Goodday