Biblical Holy Spirit vs. Unholy Spirit of Fire

unholy kundalini demon of fireHoly Spirit vs. Filthy Spirit of Fire, the calling down of Fire from heaven over a congregation, or praying Fire over someone is the norm in the church today. It has come to  resemble the early heretic Gnostic churches. Religious ecstasy (or Kundalini) was to be found in the mystery religions of the first century A.D. Back when the Corinth church seemed to be a hub of pagan Gnostic knowledge and ran rampant in unscriptural and immoral practices; the Greek mystery religions had prophets who babbled in unknown tongues which were caused by a Kundalini awakening.

Below is a table explaining the differences between The Biblical Holy Spirit compared to The Kundalini unholy spirit that masquerades as the Biblical Holy Spirit.  This table is exhaustive and contains everything you need to know:

Holy Spirit unholy kundalini demon of fire

Holy Spirit

Kundalini Unholy Spirit of Fire

Who is the Holy Spirit?

Who is the Kundalini unholy spirit?

  • The Holy Spirit is not a force or a power, He is God, the third Person of the Godhead.  (1 Corinthians 3:16, John 14:26)
  • The Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will. (1 Corinthians 2:10; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11)
  • The Holy Spirit is also omnipresence. (Psalm 139:7-8)
  • The Holy Spirit is omniscience. (1 Corinthians 2:10-11)
  • The Holy Spirit intercedes for us when we can’t pray. (Romans 8:26-27)
  • The Holy Spirit is our Helper, our Comforter and our Counsellor (John 14:16,26; 15:26)
  • The Holy Spirit will guide us and lead us into all Truth according to Biblical scripture. (John 16:12)
    • There is no extra-biblical revelation from the Holy Spirit.
  • A crucial part of the truth the Holy Spirit reveals is that Jesus is who He said He is. (John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:3)
    • The Holy Spirit convinces us of Jesus Christ’s deity and incarnation, that He is the Messiah.
    • He gives glory to Christ in all things.  (John 16:14)
  • The Holy Spirit’s role is that of gift-giver. (Corinthians 12)
  • The Holy Spirit is also the fruit producer in our lives. (Galatians 5:22-23)
  • An Esoteric description: Kundalini is a serpent goddess who lies asleep at the base of the human spine, coiled around the 1st Chakra, 3½ times.
  • The demons name is Kundalini Shakti, and ‘she’ represents the unfolding of the divine Shakti energy or Serpent Fire.
  • Kundalini is supposedly the energizing potential of life itself, a living goddess who enlivens all things.
    • It is Kundalini who creates the universe and knows Its Self as Creator.
    • Kundalini has been called “the face of God.”
  • After being awakened, Kundalini will be able to remove the knots of the major chakras, cleanse, open and develop the chakras until they are in fully blooming lotus forms – this to attain Yoga*
    • *Yoga (Enlightenment) refers to the different spiritual paths that aim for Yoga (union with Divine) – Religious ecstasy.

How do we receive the Holy Spirit

How do we get this unholy spirit?

  • We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Saviour. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
  • We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour (John 3:5-16)

 

** Through the false ‘Baptism of the unholy Spirit’.** The calling down of Fire (Serpent Fire).

** Being filled with the Unholy Ghost by Fire.

  • A Shaktipat is where one person’s kundalini is awakened by another who already has the experience.
  • Shaktipat only raises the kundalini temporarily but the demonic transference has taken place.
    • This is what is going on in the churches;  Kundalini is being transferred from one person to another – by blowing on someone, through baptismal water, laying on of hands, even holding ones hand over someone, but not touching them can begin a Shaktipat, etc.
    • Kundalini can also awaken spontaneously, for no obvious reason or triggered by intense personal experiences such as accidents, near death experiences, childbirth, emotional trauma, extreme mental stress, and so on -this is solely dependent on that ‘doctrines of demons’ one has been dabbling in.

Are there any happenings that go with the filling of the Holy Spirit?

Are there any feelings or happenings that go with this filling of the unholy spirit?

  • No, the evidence of a genuine salvation is you are now not controlled by your sinful nature but by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:9)
  • Chastisement by the Holy Spirit when we sin to repent of our sin and not sin again. (Hebrews 12:6-7; Hebrews 12:8)
  • Evidence of being born again is:
    • Obeying scripture, God’s commandments.  (1 John 2:5)
    • Respecting God’s pronouncements as authoritative in your life. Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour. (1 John 1:8)
    • No more love for the world. (1 John 2:15)
    • Living in daily awareness that Jesus Christ will return for His own! (1 John 3:2-3)
    • You are sinning less now than when you first made a profession of faith in Christ. You hate sinning.  (1 John 3:9)
    • Love for other believers in Jesus Christ. (1 John 3:14)
    • Praying and having prayers answered. (1 John 3:22)
    • Sharp Discernment as you find it easy to sort out the claims of various religions, etc. (1 John 4:1)
    • You have a conscious awareness that the Holy Spirit of God lives in you. He teaches you things from the Scriptures on a regular basis. (1 John 4:13)
  • You speak in tongues (gibberish).
  • Involuntary jerks, tremors, shaking, convulsing, crawling sensations.
  • Energy rushes like streams of fire or feelings of electricity circulating the body.
  • Moderate heat or Intense heat (sweating) or cold as ice, especially as energy is experienced passing through the chakras.
  • Visions seen or sounds heard, ESP – clairvoyance.
  • Trance-like and altered states of consciousness
  • Uncontrollable laughter or uncontrollable weeping.
  • Bliss, feelings of infinite love and universal connectivity, transcendent awareness.
  • Posture becomes fixed, you become paralyzed.
  • Utter sounds like those of animals, birds, frogs or of a lion or like those of jackals, dogs and tigers…
  • Intoxicated, your steps fall like one is drunk, speech is slurred as if drunk and and you are unable to do any other work.
  • You see Divine visions – angels of light, another ‘Jesus’
  • Future unfolds its secrets to you, you learn secrets supposedly from God.
  • The unholy spirit gives you unbiblical ‘hidden’ meaning of scriptures.

What does ‘Walking in the Spirit’ mean?.  What does being “Filled by the Holy Spirit’ mean?

What happens when we have opened our Third Eye? (6th Chakra)

  • The Filling of the Holy Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life as we grow in Holiness.  Also known as to “walk in the Spirit; It is to follow the Holy Spirit’s leading.
  • It is essential to “walk with” the Holy Spirit, allowing Him to guide your steps and conform your mind. (Ephesians 4:1; Philippians 1:27)
  • The arousing of kundalini is said by some to be the one and only way of attaining Divine Wisdom. (Genesis 3:4-5)
    • Self-Realization is said to be equal to Divine Wisdom or Gnosis or what amounts to the same thing: self-knowledge-(knowing that ‘I am a god’).
  • New knowledge is brought into the church, as self proclaimed apostles and prophets pronounce, EXTRA unbiblical revelations and unbiblical prophetic utterances.

Evidence or Signs:

False Signs and Wonders:

  • Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
  • If we need healing or deliverance we are to ask HIM DIRECTLY through prayer and He will heal us.
    • We do not need to go to men with so called ‘gifts of healing’ when we can approach Jesus Christ directly.
    • Yes we can have others pray for us (genuine Christians that is).
    • We pray in faith, but faith means that we are to trust God. We trust Him to do what is best and to know what is best. (Romans 8:28)
    • Suffering is part of life for both the unbeliever and the believer. For the believer it is often used by God in the development and maturing of our faith.  (Philippians 3:10)
    • Paul the apostle prayed to have his “thorn in the flesh” removed, but God said, “No” because He wanted Paul to understand that for in Paul’s weakness, God’s strength is made perfect. (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).
    • Do not conclude that because you have not been healed that you have an absence of faith, lack faith or have some secret sin that prevents your healing.
  • The Kundalini unholy spirit is a show and tell of signs and wonders as seen above.
  • Kundalini is a powerful healing force and will in a ‘counterfeit’ way heal you from any ailments/diseases or deliver you from drugs/alcoholism, etc.
    • You will usually feel heat, electricity, or ice when the satanic healing takes place.
  • Can Satan heal?  Of course he can! See this article for full explanation:

This Kundalini spirit is found in all religions across the world just under different names:

kundalini - unholy spirit

  • The ancient Egyptians called kundalini power Ra, who is symbolized as the Sun because the Sun is the source of kundalini energy.
  • In Islam kundalini power is known as Salaat. Called the Swaying Zikr and Whirling Dervish.
  • The early Gnostics, like Pythagorus referred to the concept as ‘Pneuma’
  • Hippocrates was aware of it as well; he referred to it as ‘vis medicatrix naturae’.
  • Religious studies also note parallels in Quakerism and Shakerism.
  • The Hebrews of ruach causing the Judaic Shuckling or (torso-rocking prayer)
  • The quiverings of the Eastern Orthodox Hesychast.
  • The Chinese movements of Tai Chi or ki.
  • The ecstatic Shamanistic dance,
  • The Bushmen dance the Ntum trance dance.
  • The Tibetan Buddhist tummo heat as practised by Milarepa,
  • Japan‘s Aum Shinrikyo group
  • The Mexican Huichols call it kupuri,
  • The Dakota Indians speak of wakan;
  • The African Sotho of moya;
  • The Bantu of nzmbi;
  • The Australians of joja;
  • Indonesian know of petara;
  • The Eskimos of quaumaneq.

False ‘unholy spirit fire in action masquerading as Holy Spirit:

unholy kundalini demon of fire unholy kundalini demon of fire unholy kundalini demon of fire
unholy kundalini demon of fire

PLEASE WATCH VIDEO 

PLEASE WATCH VIDEO

Montanism

Montanism - unholy spirit

Montanism was an early Gnostic so called Christian movement of the late 2nd century, later referred to by the name of its founder, Montanus, but originally known by its adherents as the New Prophecy (or ‘The Phyrgian Heresy’) . The heretical movement spread rapidly to other regions in the Roman Empire at a time before Christianity was generally tolerated or legal. It persisted in some isolated places into the 6th century.

It was a prophetic movement that called for a reliance on the spontaneity of the Holy Spirit and spoke extra biblical revelation.  Parallels have been made between Montanism and modern day movements such as the charismatic movement, and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). [1]

As the name “New Prophecy” implied, Montanism was a movement focused around prophecy, specifically those of the movement’s founders which were believed to contain the Holy Spirit’s revelation for the present age.[2] New Prophecy departed from Church tradition as described by Eusebius of Caesarea [3]: “And he [Montanus] became beside himself, and being suddenly in a sort of frenzy and ecstasy, he raved, and began to babble and utter strange things, prophesying in a manner contrary to the constant custom of the Church handed down by tradition from the beginning.”[4]

The Montanist prophets did not speak as messengers of God but were described as possessed by God while being unable to resist. Montanists believed that the new prophecies superseded and fulfilled the doctrines proclaimed by the Apostles.[5]  Thus, they were seen as false prophets because they acted irrationally and were not in control of their senses.[6]

The Roman Catholic unholy spirit of FIRE

The church has gone so far with this unholy fire that it has literally ENGULFED the entire church. You need to be permanently on FIRE for God according to the powers that be (TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network), God TV, Rodney Howard-Browne, Kenneth Copeland, Angus Buchan, Rick Joyner, Ray McCauley, Cindy Jacobs, Deon Hockey, Kim Clement, Marc Bredenkamp, Leon du Preez, Harold Weitsz, et al.) as they spell out their incantation and throw FIRE, FIRE, and more FIRE in the congregations direction.  Those in the congregation who have experienced this religious ecstasy want more, and those who have not experienced it, want to experience it because they believe this is the Holy Spirit as work.

Unholy Spirit of FireUnholy Spirit of FireThe ‘Heart of God is now on FIRE and everyone is pushed in this direction by the church to get to know ‘God’s heart‘.  What they don’t tell you is that this ‘Heart of God’ is the Roman Catholic Sacred Heart of Jesus, and it is also the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

heart of fire - unholy spirit

The church as it currently stands is being shoved towards pagan ROME at a rapid speed. But in order for Pentecostals and Charismatics to accept Roman Catholicism they would first have to accept the ‘spirit‘ by which it operates. Rome’s EVANGELIZATION of non-Catholics started decades ago, and their hard labour has paid off.  Just as the ancient Egyptians viewed Kundalini as being Ra‘ who is symbolized as the sun because the sun is the source of kundalini energy. So does the Roman Catholic Church who, worships the Sun god Mithra (incarnation of Ra).

Let’s have a look and see that the bible says about “fire called down from heaven” in the New Testament.

Revelation 13:13 “he [antichrist] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,”

G4442 πῦρ pur (pïr’) n.
fire.
{literally or figuratively}

This fire is spiritual and literal. In the last days, the antichrist, the false Church, and it’s followers call down spiritual FIRE from heaven onto earth – this fire is satanic, it’s captures your soul with fake love and false manifestations that capture your mind. The antichrist will also bring down real fire from heaven in the sight of me to deceive them.

Was fire ever called down from heaven when Jesus walked the earth?  Nope, how do we know? Well let’s go to God’s Word…look at this:

During Jesus’ earthly ministry, the disciples James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven in judgment of a Samaritan village that did not welcome the Lord Jesus Christ.  What did Jesus Christ say to his disciples?

Luke 9:55- “But He turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

As we can clearly see from the bible, this spirit is from Satan, and is NOT the Holy Spirit.  Jesus had not come “to condemn the world, but to save the world” (John 3:17)

This ‘fire that is called down from heaven’ is from Satan, another spirit, an unholy spirit – that condemns you.

[Edited 5 Oct 2018:  I’ve added this to explain the above in more detail because of this comment: 2018/10/05 at 3:17 pm:

Please note I am not saying that God did not ever use fire to destroy wickedness.

In the verses Luke 9:54-56 Jesus rebukes his disciples for trying to call down fire from heaven, why?  Jesus would never rebuke Elijah for what he did in calling down fire to destroy wickedness, if He did He would be rebuking the Father Himself as God rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah and surrounding towns. One needs to compare OT to NT. Different dispensations.

What do the words “You know not what manner of spirit you are of.” mean?  James and John in all their faithful zeal to Jesus Christ thought they were doing a good thing by wanting to destroy the wicked town that rejected Jesus by doing as Elijah did when he called down fire under OT Law. However the Apostles in training as I call them (Peter, James, John) had just recently seen Moses and Elias speaking with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. So James and John, thinking they could copy Elijah, where wrong in their thinking, and were in fact sinning when they wanted to call down fire, because they did not understand and they were under grace and Jesus didn’t operate like that. That is why Jesus rebuked them.

Anyone who wants to call down fire (be it physical fire or spiritual fire to destroy the soul) in this age of grace has a spirit of vengeance and it’s not from God.

This fire is a counterfeit. It’s a fire that leads to the UNITY of all religions, the joining of Protestant and Catholic, a co-reformation – into the false Christian church we have today. ]

2018: Year of the Holy Ghost and Fire by Kenneth Copeland

Please read the full comment where I give a transcript from Kenneth Copeland on what ‘burning the chaff’ means in his dictionary.

Charles Spurgeon

And if you think calling down fire is limited to only Charismatics?  Think again.  The so called ‘Prince of Preachers’ of Calvinism, Charles Spurgeon himself called down demonic Kunalini fire.

Holy Fire / Divine Fire / Heart of Flame

Holy Fire

Charles Spurgeon: “The church needs fire to quicken her ministers, to give zeal and energy to all her members. Having this fire, she burns her way to success! The world meets her with the fire of firewood, but she confronts the world with the fire of kindling spirits, and of souls aglow with the love of Jesus Christ. She trusts not to the wit, and eloquence, and wisdom of her preachers, but to the divine fire which clothes them with energy! She knows that men are irresistible when they are filled with hallowed enthusiasm sent from God. She trusts therefore in this, and her cry is, “Come, Holy Fire, abide upon our pastors and teachers! Rest upon every one of us!” —The Superlative Excellence of the Holy Spirit #574 https://www.spurgeongems.org/vols10-12/chs574.pdf

Divine Fire

Charles Spurgeon: “Brothers, I beseech you keep to the old gospel, and let your souls be filled with it, and then may you be set on fire with it! When the wick is saturated, let the flame be applied. Fire from Heaven is still the necessity of the age. They call it “go”, and there is nothing which goes like it; for when fire once starts upon a vast prairie or forest, all that is dry and withered must disappear before its terrible advance. May God Himself, who is a consuming fire, ever burn in you as in the bush at Horeb! All other things being equal, that man will do most who has most of the Divine fire.” — How to Meet the Evils of the Age Chapter 4 https://archive.spurgeon.org/misc/aarm04.php

Occult teaching on Holy fire and Divine fire

Theosophy: “In a certain sense, the task before the disciple is the evocation of the “divine fire, Kundalini, and the infusion of the principle of Will in him by that divine fire; the golden light mingling with the red flame, to produce the colour of the mystic rose. The fiery aspiration of the disciple evokes the higher celestial fire, and the two blend in one, the holy fire which shall thereafter illumine and enkindle that disciple’s heart and life and every act.” –— The Theosophical Quarterly Volumes 17-18  1919 edited by Clement Acton Griscom pg. 226,  https://books.google.com/books?id=g3g1AQAAMAAJ

Heart of Flame (see Roman Catholic Heart of Fire above)

Spurgeon: “But we bless God that there are not so many of that sort, now, and we pray that the race may become quite extinct—and that every pulpit may be filled with a man who has a tongue of fire and a heart of flame and who shuns not to declare the whole counsel of God, neither seeking the smiles of men nor dreading their frowns!” — The Dumb Singing #2625 http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols43-45/chs2625.pdf

Occult teaching on Heart of Flame

Universal Brotherhood (Theosophical teachings):”Then One spoke – He of the mighty arm – He of the eye of power. And He inquired (speaking calm and low, and looking round on all the gathered throng) who would willing go into the world of flesh – to waken all the souls that now could hear, and teach to them the meaning high, sublime, of life; show them the Movement – flowing onward like a river vast, with but one source and end; teach them how to enter on that tide, and moving with Love – and for this Fire Divine in thee thou hast been called ‘The Heart of Flame.— UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD, Volume 15, nos. 7-12, pg. 439-440  https://www.scribd.com/document/37146710/Universal-Brotherhood-v15-n7-12 

Salvation or Deliverance

If you need salvation and or deliverance from this false unholy spirit or any other demonic spirit, please read this article:  Seeking Salvation or Deliverance.

Here is an excellent article that explains the history, characteristics and fruit of the Vatican Second Council New Evangelization initiative:  The New Evangelical – Evil fit for a New Dark Age.  See this article on the Roman Catholic goddess Mary (incarnation of Isis, etc) :  Mary Queen of Heaven – Whore of Babylon

A collage of images taken from the internet showing an explosion of demonic FIRE. Everything now involves this unholy FIRE;  from books, music, banners, posters, tattoos, t-shirts and background pictures for your pc.

unholy demon of fire


Notes:
[1] Robeck, Cecil M., Jr. (2010). “Montanism and Present Day ‘Prophets'”. Pneuma: the Journal of the Society for Pentecostal Studies 32: 413.

[2] Tabbernee, Prophets and Gravestones, p. 68.
[3] Tabbernee, Prophets and Gravestones, pp. 12, 37.
[4] Eusebius of Caesarea, Ecclesiastical History Book 5. Chapter 16. paragraph 7.
[5] a b c Chapman, John (1911). “Montanists”. The Catholic Encyclopedia. 10. Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved 27 June 2011.
[6] Epiphanius, Against Heresies, 48.3-4.

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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92 Comment authors
Laurens le RouxPhillipSintiGJevatMike Evans Recent comment authors
Bobby Faulkner
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jeremae wrote:

now i just check this website and im very confused of everything im still searching for the right answer thats why im undergone searching in different explaination…Actually im a baby CHRISTIAN as a believer…my parents is not a believer nothing at all when im here working abroad i meet JESUS, i started to come this church every sunday,,before i end up one year attending of this ministry i baptised in water in unexpected i just decide on that moment that there is special baptism happen…then after 2 months and 21 days i baptised in SPIRIT in unexpected when im about going to sleep in the mid night and im praying then suddenly i filled up with spirit talking another language alone singing.laughing,,and worshiping GOD..although i already had idea in the church regarding filled up of spirit coz they are coverd up of hOLY spirit inside the church and you can fill it..i ask in the pastor and he said i filled up SPIRIT of fire.but i couldnt understand exactly…Although when i baptised in holy spirit my spiritual view change,,i couldnt stop talking about GOD,,and i always had answered prayer’s..and i always had the visions regarding church before the word of GOD will gonna be deleivered in the church it already revealed from by the holy spirit i already know what is it..yes..im still confused coz before imeet JESUS i’ve done many things and practising under evil schemes visions of peoples life..filled up demon to possed ive done all of that…

But only thing i know right now GOD change my whole spirit and body coz i couldnt stop praying and worshiping him all the time and evangelising some of my unbeliever friend giving advice by GOD’d grace…how power full he is by only one year listening his world i already complete as a CHRISTIAN…

Hello Jeremae,
Allow me to chime in.
Understanding you say you are a baby Christian I’ll try to make some things here simple.

First, NO ONE meets Jesus. We need to trust in and believe His WRITTEN word “rightly divided” by faith and nothing else to begin getting 2 Timothy 2:7 UNDERSTANDING. As Deborah stated there are MANY false teachers, false prophets, so called churches that trust in MAN’S wisdom, and go by tradition, popular belief, denominations, etc. rather than God’s WRITTEN word again, 2 Timothy 2:15 RIGHTLY DIVIDED. Right dividing does NOT mean Old testament from new Testament or truth from lies it means rightly dividing TRUTH FROM TRUTH. In other words there is truth BEFORE the cross work and truth AFTER the cross work. We MUST know the difference to understand where WE the church the body of Christ belong.

That whole tongues things is nonsense that has been propagated by MANY so called churches and denominations for decades. Notice In Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? It was always an UNDERSTOOD language not shonda da honda who stole my honda nonsense. The Charistmatics and word of faith frauds have kept this alive and well which is a satanic lie!

There is NO special baptism period! There is so much to say but due to space constraints and not wanting to bog you down with too much information, I’d strongly suggest [url removed] who teaches solid Bible rightly divided thoroughly so yo can begin to better understand where we belong. This side of the cross Paul is our apostle, his instructions are for ALL this side of the cross no more going through Israel or their laws/covenants etc.

Just know Jeremae, it’s NEVER about emotions, feelings, experiences and so forth taught by so many false people out there. We live in a Galatians 1:4 present evil world and Satan set the course Ephesians 2:2 LONG ago.
It’s a battle for souls and God’s will is 1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. People need to RUN from the likes of ANY of the word of faith people like the Copelands, Paula White, Todd White, TBN, God TV, Daystar, Jim Bakker, Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, Crelo Dollar, Joyce Meyer Benny Hinn and the list goes on and on!!

When people think of cults they typically think of Mormons, Jehovah Witness etc. These denominations are just as much a cult teaching WRONG or FALSE doctrine.
Beware Paul warned us at least 30x about this!!

Good luck

Franklin
Guest
Franklin

[Deleted by DTW – I sincerely recommend that you and your little Kundalini spirit and false Christ go elsewhere. If you don’t want to believe the gospel truth that is in this article, then that is YOUR PROBLEM. We will not be held to random by you and be be forced to approve your comments so you can spread your utterly false beliefs that completely go against the bible. You are not one bit interested in hearing the gospel truth.]

Raphael
Guest
Raphael

It is a complete lie to say that calling down fire is from satan.

2 Kings 1:10
“And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume you and your fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.”

1 Kings 18:23
“Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:”
1 Kings 18:24
“And call you on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answers by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.”
1 Kings 18:25
“And Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for you are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.”
1 Kings 18:29
“And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.”
1 Kings 18:36
“And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word.”
1 Kings 18:37
“Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that you are the LORD God, and that you have turned their heart back again.”
1 Kings 18:38
“Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.”

God also sent fire down to destroy Sodom and gomorrah.

The scripture you provided as proof when Jesus rebuked his disciples was intentionally misrepresented.

Luke 9:54
“And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, will you that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?”
Luke 9:55
“But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, You know not what manner of spirit you are of.”
Luke 9:56
“For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.”
The spirit he was talking about was that which lead them to want to kill an entire city of people for not receiving Jesus as he made his way to Jerusalem.

Juanita
Guest
Juanita

why did you call Keneth Copeland “Brother” unhappy

Aish
Guest
Aish

I have one question-thread. Is the Indwelling Holy Spirit non-experiential? ? Are Deut 4:36, 5:25, 18:16, Isaiah 33:10-24, Psalm 39:3, Jeremiah 20:9, Luke 24:32, Romans 5:5, Romans 8:9-12, 2 Cor 4:5-7, Eph 1:13-14, 2 Pet 1:16-21 done away with? Just like The Church of Christ says? Are we not supposed to know if the Holy Spirit is literally indwelling our actual heart and bodies? Is that what this is all getting at?

Lindsay Mclaughlin
Guest
Lindsay Mclaughlin

Everyone on here speaks as if they know the secrets of god. You are all so busy trying to follow set rules by such and such church. You really think god would create human beings who would only be able to discover god through other men? spiritual leaders like Jesus were sent to guide us to discover the truth for ourselves. Not to dictate the truth through rules and dogma. Man has created all the churches you know. Not god. God created man yes but he created him in such a way that the truth could be found within. Christian mystics experiences kundalini too. It was the powerful church that wanted to use religion as a control mechanism and hide the truth that god is within. How else do we know if something is right or true? There is something built in to us that we can reference and that is our connection to god. How else would you know to listen to any religious teacher? If it feels holy, it probably is. Jesus raised his kundalini as did all great spiritual teachers. Why would we be created with this spiritual and transcendent potential within us if it wasn’t meant as a spiritual tool? I have no idea what that speaking in tongues Holy Spirit stuff is. My kundalini awoke on its own. I think you misunderstand how kundalini manifests in an individual. Hindus don’t run around speaking in to gues do they? Their entire religion is based on raising their kundalini to become closer and more connected to god. I have no idea what those charismatic churches are doing but it isn’t what the Hindus are doing.

Mike Evans
Guest
Mike Evans

Hi Deborah. That’s funny that you had to clarify that the Copeland website, not YOU, were calling Kenneth Copeland “brother”. (He has an antiChrist spirit in him that stands out a mile- have you seen the video in which he calls the Reformation a “church split” brought about by a “religious spirit” that he and Pope Francis (and the late Tony Palmer) have brought under the feet of the church? Hilarious were it not for the number Of deceived people who believe everything he says is a fax from Heaven)
I found a great website which debunks the false tongues of Pentecostalism with very thorough research. In one series of articles they examine the embarrassing period (which Pentecostal historians do their best to conceal) when early missionaries traveled to foreign lands expecting to supernaturally present the gospel in the unlearned, native language of the populace AND fell flat on their faces when no-one understood their gibberish. (Did you know that Voodoo practitioners have visited Pentecostal churches and recognized the ‘tongues’ as the same as theirs when possessed ny “fallen angels”?). Guess who the early Pentecostals they went to for their still current doctrine of a heavenly prayer language? The 19th century non-fundamentalist German heretics of Higher Criticism, who possibly got this doctrine from Edward Irving, the disfellowshipped Presbyterian minister who had his own short-lived Pentecostal movement in England in the 1830’s. Here is a link to an article on Irving. It was quite a big deal in its day, with celebrities like the Duke of York attending his services. Irving not only foreshadowed the movement which Parham and Seymour would begin in the early 20th century, but he also was a precursor (and “curse” is the operative word) to the NAR, as his movement introduced new apostles and prophets (though curiously, Irving himself was not one,although he refused to hold a service without the “gift of tongues”,which was the reason for his excommunication). It took the charismatic movement MANY years to endorse modern day prophets and apostles (eg the AOG condemning the ministries of Branham and Hagin, but now embracing the NAR). Irving did the lot in one go within three years, including stating that the tongues were a divine language once it was proved they were not of this earth.

The Irvingites and the Gift of Tongues


Maybe they will allow you to repost some of their excellent articles. All of this shows there is truly nothing new under the sun and Satan will recycle old heresies on a periodical basis. I wonder whether even he foreknew that the 1900 revival of Montanism at Parham’s Bible School would lead to a global movement which now dominates professing Christianity. I recently read a fascinating book written in the ’90’s which condemns the Toronto Blessing and looks at similar manifestations going back to the time of John Wesley (who was an admirer of Montanus and invented the notion of the ‘Baptism in the Holy Spirit’,although he believed it led to a state of Sinless Perfection (which Finney had the audacity to believe he had come to experience!))
It is called THE TORONTO BLESSING AND SLAYING IN THE SPIRIT,THE TELLING WONDER by Nader Mikhaiel. I read things in it I had not heard or read before (eg. William Seymour renounced the belief that tongues are a sign of the Spirit baptism later in his life) and there is an excellent chapter proving Kenneth Hagin was a shaman/hypnotist who communed with a lying spirit which has deceived millions. My best to you and Tom.
P.S. What about an article on the Reformed teachers like Francis Chan and Matt Chandler,who are leading their many followers into the spiderweb of he NAR?

Jevat
Guest
Jevat

Tom what are the biblical doctrinal beliefs of your ministry. You can email me, if you would not mind. hebrewsjcs@gmail.com thanks. By the way I believe that yours and Deb’s, understanding of scriptures that expose all these evil satanic lies that many so called Christians believe about this false spirit of fire that is sweeping pretty much the entire world of signs and wonders churches, is absolute truth wright from the living Word of God. Not very many, even true children of God, are not willing to contend for the truth. I praise God for you both that He has given you courage, strength, and boldness to confront this evil generation that is gone mad seeking ungodly experiences, and sign and wonders that Satan is so happy and willing to give them exactly what they want. If they would only read and believe what the Lord in Matthew 7:22-23 said they would tremble in fear and repent from their evil satanic fire they are attributing to the Holy Spirit. Jesus said on that day (many) will say to Me Lord Lord, did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and did mighty works works in your name. And then will I declare to them, I never knew you, depart from Me, you workers of iniquity. Man, when I read these scriptures, my heart and soul cry out to God, Lord have mercy on those who are deceived by false teachers who are Satan’s angels of light teaching doctrines of demons and snaring people’s souls with lies, lies, and so more lies to distraction of hell fire. Snatch many Lord, from Satan’s grip, and deliver them, and bring them to the true knowledge of your beloved Son Jesus Christ, and the true Gospel of Christ. Do it for your glory Lord, and draw their hearts to Matthew 7:22-23, make them shake in their boots literally with fear and trembling and cause them to call on Christ for mercy, forgiveness, in confession of sin and true repentance unto salvation. Thank you Lord Jesus Christ for Your Holy Spirit who always leads us His children in truth, your Living Word the Scriptures
Tom and Deborah, may the Lord bless you and your familys, and may the Lord continue to give you wisdom and spiritual understanding concerning His Word of truth, and may the Holy Spirit comfort your hearts with His filling and presence as you fight the noble fight for His truth. Jevat Mehovich

SintiG
Guest
SintiG

Deborah (Discerning the World), I think you need revelation. Tongues has never ceased. It is one of the 9 Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
These day every second person speak about the Kundalini. No such thing. You have to be baptised with the Holy Spirit before you can speak in tongues. Jesus did heal people. He said to them go and sin no more. Also sickness is demonic. Jesus died on the cross that we can be healed. He took all our sickness upon Him.

Phillip
Guest
Phillip

The thing I find remarkable about a lot of this stuff which is sensationalist it seems to me, is the deafening silence from the scriptures. This alone should be enough to raise suspicions regarding its source and origins. It was written of the early disciples, in the scriptures which are God breathed, that they continued steadfastly in the Apostles’ doctrine yet I can find nothing substantive in the apostolic writings that would endorse many of the experiences asserted in this thread. What then is to be the arbiter of what is true, the scriptures or our subjective human experiences? The answer seems obvious to me at least.

Best wishes.

Robbie
Guest
Robbie

Leon du Preez again – Secretly bringing in destructive heresies…

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Hi Robbie.

Has he never read 1 Corinthians 1:18?

Laurens le Roux
Guest
Laurens le Roux

Bron van alle kwaad in vandag se moderne wêreld is korrupte Bybels.

1Petr. 1:22,23 [AOV]: As julle in gehoorsaamheid aan die waarheid julle siele deur die Gees tot ongeveinsde broederliefde gereinig het, moet julle mekaar vurig liefhê uit ‘n rein hart; 23 want julle is wedergebore nie uit verganklike saad nie, maar uit onverganklike, deur die lewende woord van God wat tot in ewigheid bly.

Lees eers: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1605-amazing-unity-of-scripture-the

Die stelling word gemaak dat moderne Bybelvertaling met groot modderskoene in hierdie fyntuin van God ingestap het. Die Goddelikheid van die Bybelse inhoud is deur moderne Bybelvertaling gekorrupteer.

Die volgende as voorbeelde:

ANV=Afrikaanse Nuwe vertaling van 1983
AOV=Afrikaanse Ou Vertaling van 1933/53

1. Moet glo in Jesus as die Christus
ANV
1 Joh. 5:1 [ANV]: Elkeen wat glo dat Jesus die Christus is, is ‘n kind van God; en elkeen wat vir die Vader liefhet, het ook die ander lief wat kinders van die Vader is.

Word weerspreek in:
Hand. 16:31[ANV]: Hulle antwoord hom: “Glo in die Here Jesus, en jy sal gered word, jy en jou huisgesin.”

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
1 Joh. 5:1 [AOV]: Elkeen wat glo dat Jesus die Christus is, is uit God gebore; en elkeen wat die Vader liefhet, het ook die een lief wat uit Hom gebore is.
Hand. 16:31 [AOV]: Toe sê hulle: Glo in die Here Jesus Christus en jy sal gered word, jy en jou huisgesin.

2. Israel in die toekomstige bedeling
ANV
Amos 9:14,15 [ANV]:14 Ek sal die lot van my volk Israel verander: hulle sal die verlate stede herbou en bewoon, hulle sal wingerde plant en die wyn daarvan drink, hulle sal tuine aanlê en die vrugte daarvan eet. 15 Ek sal my volk weer in hulle grond plant, en hulle sal nie weer uitgeruk word uit die grond wat Ek hulle gegee het nie, sê die Here jou God.

Word weerspreek in:
Hand. 15:16,17 [ANV]: 16 Daarna sal Ek terugkom, en Ek sal die vervalle huis van Dawid weer opbou, en Ek sal sy bouvalle herstel en dit weer regmaak, 17 sodat al die ander mense die Here kan soek, ja, al die heidennasies wat Ek geroep het om my eiendom te wees, sê die Here wat hierdie dinge doen.
[Israel is uitgesluit. Pas Roomse siening]

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
Amos 9:14,15 [AOV]:14 En Ek sal die lot van my volk Israel verander, en hulle sal die verwoeste stede bou en bewoon, ook sal hulle wingerde plant en die wyn daarvan drink, en tuine aanlê en die vrugte daarvan eet. 15 En Ek sal hulle plant in hul land, en hulle sal nie meer uitgeruk word uit hul land wat Ek hulle gegee het nie, sê die HERE jou God.
Hand. 15:16,17 [AOV[:16 Daarna sal Ek terugkom en die vervalle hut van Dawid weer oprig, en wat daarvan verwoes is, sal Ek weer oprig en dit herstel, 17 sodat die oorblyfsel van die mense die Here kan soek, en al die nasies oor wie my Naam uitgeroep is, spreek die Here wat al hierdie dinge doen.

3. Jesus Christus is uit ñ maagd gebore
ANV
Mat. 1:23 [ANV]: “Die maagd sal swanger word en ‘n Seun in die wêreld bring, en hulle sal Hom Immanuel noem.” Die naam beteken God by ons.

Word weerspreek in:
Jes. 7:14 [ANV]: Die Here sal daarom self vir julle ‘n teken gee: ‘n Jong vrou sal swanger word en ‘n seun in die wêreld bring en sy sal hom Immanuel noem.

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
Mat. 1:23 [AOV]: Kyk, die maagd sal swanger word en ‘n seun baar, en hulle sal Hom Emmánuel noem, dit is, as dit vertaal word: God met ons.
Jes. 7:14 [AOV]: Daarom sal die HERE self aan julle ‘n teken gee: Kyk, die maagd sal swanger word en ‘n seun baar en hom Immánuel noem.

4. Drie Eenheid
ANV
Joh. 10:30 [ANV] Ek en die Vader is een.”

Word weerspreek in:
1 Joh. 5:7 [ANV] Daar is dus drie wat getuig:

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
Joh. 10:30 [AOV]: Ek en die Vader is een.
1 Joh. 5:7 [AOV]: Want daar is drie wat getuig in die hemel: die Vader, die Woord en die Heilige Gees, en hierdie drie is een;

5. Goddelikheid van Jesus Christus
ANV
Joh. 1:1 [ANV]: In die begin was die Woord daar, en die Woord was by God, en die Woord was self God.

Word weerspreek in:
1Tim. 3:16[ANV]: En dit staan bo alle teenspraak dat die geopenbaarde waarheid van ons godsdiens groot is: As mens het Jesus in die wêreld gekom, deur die Gees is bevestig dat die reg aan sy kant is, aan die engele het Hy verskyn; aan die heidennasies is Hy verkondig, in die hele wêreld is Hy geglo, en in heerlikheid is Hy opgeneem.

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
Joh 1:1 [AOV]: In die begin was die Woord, en die Woord was by God, en die Woord was God.
1 Tim. 3:16 [AOV]: En, onteenseglik, die verborgenheid van die godsaligheid is groot: God is geopenbaar in die vlees, is geregverdig in die Gees, het verskyn aan engele, is verkondig onder die heidene, is geglo in die wêreld, is opgeneem in heerlikheid.

6. Onmagtigheid van die sondaarmens
ANV
Rom. 7:15 [ANV]: Ek begryp self nie wat ek doen nie, want wat ek wil doen, dit doen ek nie, maar wat ek haat, juis dit doen ek.

Word weerspreek in:
Joh. 14:15 [ANV]: As julle My liefhet, sal julle my opdragte uitvoer.
[Die sondaarmens is nie instaat om al God se opdragte uit te voer nie]

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
Rom. 7:15 [AOV]: Want wat ek doen, weet ek nie; want wat ek wil, dit doen ek nie, maar wat ek haat, dit doen ek.
Joh. 14:15 [AOV]: As julle My liefhet, bewaar my gebooie.

7. Doop sonder geloof is waardeloos
ANV
Mark. 16:15,16 [ANV]:15 Hy het vir hulle gesê: “Gaan uit, die hele wêreld in, en verkondig die evangelie aan die hele mensdom. 16 Wie tot geloof gekom het en gedoop is, sal gered word; wie nie glo nie, sal veroordeel word.

Word weerspreek in:
Hand. 8:36,37 [ANV]:36 Onderweg kom hulle toe by water aan, en die amptenaar sê: “Hier is water. Wat verhinder dat ek gedoop word?” 37 Wegvertaal
[Doop verhef tot die essensie. Roomse siening]

Vergelyk nou met die AOV

AOV
Mark. 16:15,16 [AOV]:15 En Hy het vir hulle gesê: Gaan die hele wêreld in en verkondig die evangelie aan die ganse mensdom. 16 Hy wat glo en hom laat doop, sal gered word; maar hy wat nie glo nie, sal veroordeel word.
Hand. 8:36,37 [AOV]:36 En terwyl hulle voortreis op die pad, kom hulle by water; en die hofdienaar sê vir hom: Daar is water; wat verhinder my om gedoop te word? 37 Toe sê Filippus: As u glo met u hele hart, is dit geoorloof. En hy antwoord en sê: Ek glo dat Jesus Christus die Seun van God is.

8. Geloof in Jesus Christus as die beloofde Messias
ANV
1 Joh. 5:1[ANV]: Elkeen wat glo dat Jesus die Christus is, is ‘n kind van God; en elkeen wat vir die Vader liefhet, het ook die ander lief wat kinders van die Vader is.

Ten spyte hiervan weerspreek die ANV homself deur die talle Messiaanse profesieë te korrupteer, wat nie die geval is met die AOV nie.
Die ware Bybel het die inherente vermoë om homself te verklaar wat vanweë die korrupsies in die nuwe vertalings groot skade aangedoen is.
“The best interpreter of scripture is scripture itself, If a verse is not self explanatory one verse should explain the other.” [ http://www.letusreason.org/Wf7.htm ]

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Baie dankie, Laurens vir jou insiggewende comment. Nuwe Bybelvertalings is beslis besig om die ware evangelie om te keer tot die vertalerss se eie verderf.

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