As Christians We Must Judge Righteously
As Christians We Must Judge Righteously
As Christians we do not judge a person’s life, i.e., sin, because we are all sinners (Matt 7:1)., we judge righteously according to the Word of God. The Bible commands us to judge fellow Christians teachings and their fruit. Those in the church we are to judge according to the Word of God. Those outside of the church we show them the error of their ways, preach the gospel to them and then leave them in God’s hands. We are also commanded to judge/test their teachings/doctrine to make sure it is correct and that it ties up with scripture.
There are many verses in the bible where we are told to JUDGE/TEST:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)
21But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.
Matthew 7:15-20 (Amplified Bible)
15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.
16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].
19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.
20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (Amplified Bible)
12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?
13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].
1 Corinthians 14:29 (Amplified Bible)
29 So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.
John 7:24 (Amplified Bible)
24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.
Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)
9He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error].
10For there are many disorderly and unruly men who are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true] especially of those of the circumcision party [who have come over from Judaism].
11Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain.
12One of their [very] number, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, hurtful beasts, idle and lazy gluttons.
13And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error,
14[And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth.
15To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted.
16They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.
1 John 4 (Amplified Bible)
1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
See article: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2018/03/18/ravenous-wolves-sheeps-clothing/
Deborah!
Thank you so much for this! So often we are condemned for judging, I can make use of this as confirmation when explaining the difference between judging people and actions.
Blessings!
Thank you Debs – this is one of the most misunderstood concepts in Christianity. As a result, false teachings go unjudged and leaven is spread. Ironically, those who try to alert others about them are judged divisive, critical and unloving no matter how gently and respectfully the facts are presented.
Hi Deborah
I was also reading from Corinthian last night and this morning – ‘nogals’ studying Cor 4 to 6 in depth to measure and judge myself and my own actions and feelings towards things currently going on in the world. I actually start reading my Bible from the front again each when I come to the end and God is so true – He knows when I am going to need some answer or when I am going to be at some crisis in my life because at that time I’ll be at the answer He has for me for that time. He is my HERO.
Another thing while on the judging righteously topic. I ‘happened upon’ 8^) the order of the Eastern Star in a secular book I started reading and it prompted me to do some research about it. Have you ever researched it? The thing that caught my attention was the name Esther – the Esther conferences immediately came to mind. I’ve heard about them but do not know excactly what is is about. Can there possibly be a connection and reason for concern?
Have a stunning Sunday and God Bless!
Absolutely,if there was nobody who could correctly discern truth from error, there would be no true church left.
I still think that we are too kind in calling out false teachers.
Jesus did not mince words in his dealings with the Pharisees. It was more like a slowly simmering situation which boiled over in Jesus calling them “hypocrites” and “snakes”.
My last experience of the local C3 Church was noticing one of the ushers who was clearly anointed by the Spirit of God.
After the service, the “Pastor”, greeted me with an edge to his tone and looked at me with the blackest eyes.
I never called him a snake, I decided to be less confrontational.
Rista
Jesus is always there, holding each and every one of us tight 🙂
Yeah I know about the order of the Eastern Star.
Regarding Esther and all these Esther conferences. The New Apostolic Reformation are Esther crazy. Basically it revolved around Esther in the Bible and as you know these people can take anything out of the bible and apply it to anything and make it seem ‘true’. Because Esther was female and a Godly woman, dedicated to her husband (A king), she is therefore used and abused today – now the ‘spirit of Esther’ seems to float around in the air and can actually be transferred by these people. There are Esther mantles, Mordecai anointings, Esther prayer oils. You name it. I am sure they will invent it. The Esther conferences revolve around worship and prayer/intercession (Esther fasted for 3 days).
What caught your attention between Esther and the Order of the Eastern Star?
Deborah, you know, I pray daily for a spirit of discernment simply because I do not want to make the things I research a witch hunt and my wish is to stay objective and realistic about everything. But then, for some reason, something like this jumps at me and I start digging. I mean, a secular book led me to research this. My walk with God led me to realize exactly how mysterious Gods ways with us are. We know satan is using even the church to lead us astray so when I read about the goddesses of the Eastern Star and saw Esthers’ name (which is actually the goddess Hebe) the Esther conferences jumped to mind. Why? To unsettle my Sunday? 8^) I do not know hence my question on this site. I found many answers here when I was searching – heck, I even found a few I wasn’t searching for that shocked me out of my socks and had me in tears in the middle of the night! Hopefully this one is a false bell but knowing how active, influential and powerful the masons are in our churches the bell SO does not want to be silenced. 8^) Maybe it will calm down tomorrow but if not and there is a link I’d really like to warn people out there about it. I have friends and family who attended these conferences, were really impressed and cannot wait for the next.
God bless!!!
Rista
Just to help you out on something. You said you have been praying for a ‘spirit of discernment’. Do you not realise as a born again Christian you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you and He IS the one who helps you discern. So I have no idea why you are praying for something when you already have the Holy Spirit 😉
Your conclusion regarding the name Esther in the order of the Eastern Star is correct. In the Order of the Eastern Star, Esther is one of the Heroines and represents the (wife). But there are other biblical characters who are used as well. Adah (daughter), Ruth (widow), Martha (sister) and Electa (mother).
I would have to say that you have stumbled onto something very interesting.
The false spirit imparted at these conferences (not just the Esther ones) is strong.
Hi Deborah
Yes, I’m aware of the fact that we have the Holy Spirit residing in us and I cannot thank God enough for that privilege – I never want to be without Him. What I pray for is that I’ll always stay aware of the fact that the discerning Spirit I know I have is Him, stay humble about it never become self-righteous. I believe there is also an enormous responsibility connected to the Spirit of discernment – especially if we want to use what we learn to warn other people.
God Bless and njoy your day!
Hi Deborah. Good to have this site and your input on judging is important and very relevant today – especially today.
There are however Scriptures telling us to judge sin in other peoples lives – so aught we to be judged and correctedin turn. For instance reading 1Cor.5 – 6 we read about Paul’s dismay regarding the brother in adultery with his father’s wife. Paul rebukes the Corinthians for not Judging this brother. 1Co 6:5 “I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?”
In Matthew 7 the context is that of a hypocrite in other words being guilty of the same sin, one dare not judge another. In verse 5 the order is for the hipocrite to FIRST remove the beam from his own eye – THEN he is able to see the mote in the other’s eye. That is also what the Greek word Hypocretes denotes.
We dare not judge someone else if we are guilty of the same sin. Paul would not have been in a position to force such harsh judgment upon the person in 1Cor.5 if he was himself guilty of adultery.
I suppose this is why a bishop is supposed to be blameless.
May we stay in the hands of the Lord
Hi Chris
You are absolutely right. I think that is where judging righteously comes into action. Under the “List of Authors and Books Not Recommended” article I received an email from a man/woman (transgender) person who was highly upset that their book was listed as non-Christian. They then used Matt 7 and the “judge not” tactic.
In this day and age, we are not allowed (as per the world) too judge, but the bible says we are to do just that. If the church can’t stand up and say this is wrong and that is wrong then the church does not exist anymore (oh wait… lol). But then that is what the world wants. Good is bad a bad is good. Sin does not exist anymore and neither does hell.
Rista
Hmm… there is that “spirit of discernment” again… can you give me scripture where it speaks of the “Spirit of Discernment”?
Rista wrote:
Just to clear things up if I may Rista. There is no such thing as “the discerning Spirit” it is infact the abbility to be able to discern the good from evil or truth from lie. It forms part of the gifts God bestowed on believers. It is not a spirit by it self please understand this clearly.
1 Corinthians 12:10 (King James Version)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 12:10 (Amplified Bible)
10 To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight ([a]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.
Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary
12:1-11 Spiritual gifts were extraordinary powers bestowed in the first ages, to convince unbelievers, and to spread the gospel. Gifts and graces greatly differ. Both were freely given of God. But where grace is given, it is for the salvation of those who have it. Gifts are for the advantage and salvation of others; and there may be great gifts where there is no grace. The extraordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit were chiefly exercised in the public assemblies, where the Corinthians seem to have made displays of them, wanting in the spirit of piety, and of Christian love. While heathens, they had not been influenced by the Spirit of Christ. No man can call Christ Lord, with believing dependence upon him, unless that faith is wrought by the Holy Ghost. No man could believe with his heart, or prove by a miracle, that Jesus was Christ, unless by the Holy Ghost. There are various gifts, and various offices to perform, but all proceed from one God, one Lord, one Spirit; that is, from the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the origin of all spiritual blessings. No man has them merely for himself. The more he profits others, the more will they turn to his own account. The gifts mentioned appear to mean exact understanding, and uttering the doctrines of the Christian religion; the knowledge of mysteries, and skill to give advice and counsel. Also the gift of healing the sick, the working of miracles, and to explain Scripture by a peculiar gift of the Spirit, and ability to speak and interpret languages. If we have any knowledge of the truth, or any power to make it known, we must give all the glory of God. The greater the gifts are, the more the possessor is exposed to temptations, and the larger is the measure of grace needed to keep him humble and spiritual; and he will meet with more painful experiences and humbling dispensations. We have little cause to glory in any gifts bestowed on us, or to despise those who have them not.
Rista wrote:
Again may I give you some advise. Rather pray that the truth is revealed to you by the Holy Spirit if it is the will of God. One cannot pray for “a spirit of discernment” there no spirit of discernment. Also as explained in my comment above.
There is a “discerning of spirits” gifting that is apparently a special ability given to certain believers to be able to sniff out error and get a check in their spirit and are among the first to spot red flags.
Of course everyone has discernment if we will but exercise it, but this gifting seems to be a different thing. Can someone elaborate a bit?
BL
That is correct. There is a ‘discerning of spirits’ GIFT not a Spirit of Discernment.
Girls, I do not think you understand what I meant. When I talk of a ‘spirit of discernment’ I do not talk about a spirit as such. I talk about the ability God gives us through the Holy Spirit in us to discern right from wrong, good from evil. Same way I talk of a ‘spirit of compassion’, ‘spirit of empathy’, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. As you said, it is a gift from God and part of your being.
Enjoy the day and God Bless!!!
Rista
Then in order that you do not confuse anyone (especially those who are easily confused), it is better to say, GIFT instead of spirit.
Romans 12:4-8
4For as in one physical body we have many parts (organs, members) and all of these parts do not have the same function or use,
5So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].
6Having gifts (faculties, talents, qualities) that differ according to the grace given us, let us use them: [He whose gift is] prophecy, [let him prophesy] according to the proportion of his faith;
7[He whose gift is] practical service, let him give himself to serving; he who teaches, to his teaching;
8He who exhorts (encourages), to his exhortation; he who contributes, let him do it in simplicity and liberality; he who gives aid and superintends, with zeal and singleness of mind; he who does acts of mercy, with genuine cheerfulness and joyful eagerness
And then 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (Amplified Bible) of which some gifts have ceased.
BL
I have been wanting to do a short article on the correct use of the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit for a while now because it’s quite important. You have those who abuse it, and those who don’t believe in gifts. But it’s actually a very important part of the body of Christ. I have been told I have the gift of discerning spirits, and I too know that I have this gift – 1 Corinthians 12:10 (Amplified Bible) “….to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones]”. I used to shrug this off, push it aside. I didn’t want to acknowledge this gift. I thought that if I told anyone I had this gift they would get upset, wondering why they didn’t have this gift. Or worse, those who will actually view my gift as being abnormal. If it was not for this wonderful gift, I would not be able to run this website and keep the comments section open.
Hi Deborah,
I do not personally know any of the great people together with you that run DTW, posting these informative articles, and comments, in line with the teaching of the Word, but i feel the connection!
I’ve sent you an e-mail, regarding close family, that has been led astray recently, that i need info on. Should you want to edit/paste it, I’m okay, an E-mail will do just fine, Ingels is good. ; )
Email from Hanelie:
————
Good day
I have spent some time on you blog and have a few questions and comments. Since they do not necessarily belong in any of the current threads (which I have read), I have decided to email them to you.
When I found your blog I was glad to see someone taking a public stand for Jesus. We are indeed living in times where discernment is greatly needed and I find many of the articles enlightening.
Yet, I left the blog feeling very much saddened because I could see no difference between the nature of the conversations on this blog and those on non-Christian blogs. Luke 6:44 says that a tree will be judged by its fruit and Galatians 5:22-23 describe that fruit as love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. Yet, I see nothing of this in your blog. Instead, my first impression when I started reading comments (and the rules) on this blog was better described by Galatians 5:15 “But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.” Love (as in agape love or love stemming from the character of the one who loves not the character of the one loved) would, sadly, be the last word I would use to describe this blog.
1. What am I missing? How am I misunderstanding your purpose? I have looked for some description of what the blog is about, but aside from the line in your banner, I was unsuccessful (maybe, I overlooked it). – [EDITED BY DTW: expose FALSE TEACHING]
2. Why do I see no-one calling on us to step in and intercede for those you judge (sometimes rather harshly). While we should stand against Satan and his demons, we are to pray for, forgive, set free and bless people. Do we believe that only some can or are worthy to be saved? It certainly seems that way when we are condemning people, calling them “suckers” and worse. [EDITED BY DTW: You do not notice the numerous countless comments there people have their say and tell me off? And NO WHERE have I called anyone a name ever, so I have no idea where you get that “suckers’ thing from. People from all over the world comment on this website and I don’t moderate others comments, their thoughts are their thoughts, not mine. And NO only Calvinists believe that Jesus Christ died for the ELECT and not the entire world. I am not a Calvinist, I am a bible believing born again Christian.]
3. I agree that “judging” you for “judging others” is just silly. We are not to judge. I wonder, though, how you give substance to Mathew 7:1 (not to judge) or 2 Timothy 1:7 (having a spirit of love) or John 13:35 (we will be known as His disciples for our love for one another) or the summary of the law in Galatians 5:14 (to love our neighbours as ourselves) through the conversations on the blog? [EDITED BY DTW: See this article: As Christians We Must Judge Righteously]
I ask these questions for two reasons. Firstly, because I think what you are trying to do is important, but (and this is my second reason), I fear that it might cause some to stumble and not realise that we as Christians are firstly called to love, not to fight against “flesh and blood” (Galatians 6:12) and that people can stumble which is why we are not to put our trust in men (Psalm 146:3).
May our Lord Jesus Christ bless you with joy and peace.
Hanelie
Hi Hanelie
A person will only stumble if he/she wants to stumble and does not want to listen to the HOLY SPIRIT who is the ONE who saves people – not me. My blog has been a tool that has helped countless people from the grasp of false teachers and their doctrines of demons. Read the bible and tell me how Jesus and the disciples handled false teachers. Tell me how Paul handled Simon when he wanted to BUY the Holy Spirit. You are out of touch with what TRUE LOVE is. True love is WARNING PEOPLE, not sitting on the side lines and watching people go to hell. If people don’t want to listen to what I have to say, and the TRUTH unfortunately HURTS then they won’t listen no matter how I present it. I can candy coat it and still I will be sworn at and slapped in the face. So I just say it like it is (which mind you is still in a nice way, by the way). And the end result is still the same. But there are people out there who HEAR because they are SEEKING the truth and when they find the truth, because of the HOLY SPIRIT working in their life THEY WILL LISTEN. Those who don’t want to listen, never will – and there is nothing I can do about that.
It is exactly because I do not want to “sit by the sideline watching people go to hell” that I have asked these questions. Maybe my questions seemed like an attack. If so, please forgive me. That was not the intention.
To me, your response seemed like an attack. Maybe that was just my interpretation and not your attention. If so, again, please forgive me.
I do not think anyone of us on this earth know the meaming of TRUE LOVE. It is all you say. It is also all Gal 6:22 says. And, it is also to love another (not yet saved) enough to die for them. Let each one of us then ask ourselves if we are prepared to die for those disagreeing with us. When using that as measure, I still have a far way to go in becoming like Jesus.
Just one last question, I am looking for the article you promised here:
hanelie
>> Maybe my questions seemed like an attack. If so, please forgive me. That was not the intention.
I am attacked by 90% of the people who question me, so I am always on my guard. I am only human and it get’s a bit much sometimes to get asked the same questions over and over and over and over and over again.
>> To me, your response seemed like an attack
No, it was in defense. Where did I attack you or question you for that matter. I stated my case because you ASKED ME.
>> Just one last question, I am looking for the article you promised here: A Message of Faith – Retha McPherson (WARNING!!! Retha’s son does not hear from God. Article pending.)
I have been ill for a number of weeks and have not gotten around to writing anything. I am still not 100% and my list of ‘things to do’ has grown. I will get around to it soon – I hope.
Deborah,
I am sorry to hear that you hav enot been well and glad to know that you are better!
On Retah: I have read one of her books and listened to some of her cd’s. I thought they were scripturally correct and rather bold – calling Christians to do the hard things (look inside our own hearts). At least, that was what I got from ot. I did not pick up anything in those that left me uneasy. You disagree. If you could just briefly exaplin why I would appreciate it.
hanelie
Oh goodness, no, her son communicates with a spirit called Wisdom. That is not of God. Please I beg you to throw those books away. Satan knows the bible inside out and back to front, of course her books will seem correct. Also trips to heaven are false (her son was not saved before this accident happened) – dedicating your child to Jesus does in no way mean your child is saved. Just as an example, angels do not visit us in this day and age because we have the Holy Spirit: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/10/do-angels-visit-us-today/
When they had the accident she had a surge of electricity run through her body and heat come over her. This is a ‘kundelini awakening’ and nothing more than occult. I have no idea what Rhea believed in BEFORE the accident happend but it was not of God this I can tell you. They also believe in Kingdom Now teaching: She also believes in this: and
I have her book and I am struggling to read it because it’s that bad, I want to throw it out my house but I want to finish reading it so I can write an article.
You are going to need patience with me here as I try to understand. I have not seen evidence of Retah believing these things. Could you point me to some? The last article, if I understood it correctly, refers to a belief that only whites can be saved? This (to me) seems to contradict the book of Retah’s I have read.
I assumed that Aldo could have been saved prior to the accident or that God could have intervened at that time. My son is 12 years old, my daughter 9. Both have given their hearts to God some time ago already. I do not know that they are saved because they were dedicated to God, but because they chose Him. Could this not have been the case for Aldo?
I wasn’t bothered by the fact that Aldo calls the Holy Spirit “Wisdom” since that is one of the descriptions the Bible use for him. I am aware of Satan’s age-old attempts at counterfeiting God, including the kundalini spirit. Would Satan teach repentance and forgiveness and blessing those who wrong you though?
Sorry, as I said, patience ….
hanelie
Like I said, I need to write an article for this because I have to go and find all my quotes and sources, etc, etc. Maybe you can do some research of your own, look at her website as well for info. But FIRST ask the Holy Spirit (not a ‘spirit’ called Wisdom – lol) to guide you and open your eyes to the truth.
I have obviously asked for the guidance of the Holy Spirit as I read the book and listened to some of her other teachings and have done some research as I came across the accusations against her. And, I will continue to seek God’s guidance on this matter.
As I was pondering this, a question came up. How do we discern between false teachers (wolves in sheep’s clothes who willingly lead people astray for their own gain) and spirit filled, born again Christians who make fleshly, human errors (in judgement, interpretation, whatever – as we all do)? The latter, I believe, we have to correct (not expose). In love.
A post by Elmarie then caught my attention. In this, she quotes (from another website) three ways of testing whether someone displays the fruit of the Spirit, namely:
1) What does this teacher say about Jesus?
2) Does this teacher preach the gospel?
3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord?
This is indeed very helpful, and I will use it in future.
I started reading Retah’s third book a while back, but never read the last chapter, leaving it for a time I could really pay attention. I never knew why. Tonight, I decided to read it in order to apply above test to it. What I read most certainly passed all three of these tests. Also, the entire nature of this book contradicts the idea that she beliefs in “Britsh Isrealism”.
I found it intriguing that in my search (starting with her website and book), three times, I found references to God’s love and warnings against hardened hearts. I will continue to ask God to clarify this matter for me, because I would hate to condemn one of His own through a flawed judgement.
Hanelie
>> What I read most certainly passed all three of these tests.
It’s not THAT SIMPLE. Error and Truth don’t mix. Just because someone seems to preach the gospel, when in fact their gospel is twisted does not make it the full truth and nothing but the TRUTH. Just because someone speaks about Jesus, does not make it the biblical Jesus but instead the New Age Jesus. Just because a book exhibits qualities that glorifies the Lord means nothing – your Calvinist church folk who believe they are elect I am sure exhibit wonderful qualities and glorify the Lord in church each Sunday – does it mean they are now genuinely Christian? Or is it they just possess a FORM OF GODLINESS because they no not the FULL TRUTH – their doctrine is truth and ERROR combined.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life,John 14:6 Not … the way, the truth, a bit of error and the life.
But suit yourself.
I’m not sure I am understanding the bit about error and truth. Don’t we all err at times? Surely there’s a difference between making a mistake (which we all have) and wilfully misleading people for personal gain (false teaching)?
None of us are without mistakes. That is what I read James 3 (the message – or warning – to teachers) to mean, amongst others: “And none of us is perfectly qualified. We get it wrong nearly every time we open our mouths. If you could find someone whose speech was perfectly true, you’d have a perfect person, in perfect control of life.”
I am sorry if I am trying people’s patience as I am trying to understand. I am trying to figure the following out for myself:
The difference between false teaching and error
How I will know (be able to discern) what is truth and what is not. Of course the Bible is my guide. So, if someone teaches what is in the Bible, I furthermore ask the Holy Spirit for guidance through His inner peace. What else can/ should I use?
In my own life, I am not too concerned. I follow Jesus, not any teacher. Though teachers have helped me understand some things better, I could see error in all their lives as in my own. Though I will judge their actions, I am usually not too hasty to judge/condemn them, given my own flaws. I know we are to warn people of false teaching, but I think that is something different.
I don’t know. Maybe someone other than poor Deborah, who I have kept rather busy here, can shed some light on this for me?
me.
hanelie
There is a difference between making a mistake and then the Holy Spirit convicts you that you are wrong and sooner rather than later you rectify the mistake. Election is doctrinal error, not a mistake. Twisting the gospel of Jesus is ERROR not a mistake. Not all false teachers are willfully misleading people, they are just misleading people. If you think you can’t be deceived then you probably are. If people knew they were deceived they would do something about it surely.
hanelie
I see you did not say anything about the Kingdom Now doctrine that Rhea follows. Do you believe is this stuff?
hanelie
>> I furthermore ask the Holy Spirit for guidance through His inner peace.
What do you mean by ‘inner peace’ Does the Holy Spirit not speak to you in gentle whispers of warnings telling you things are wrong ?
Deborah,
I’m merely asking all these questions because I am trying to understand and learn, of course (and I am learning – so many things (about myself, the working of the Holy Spirit, Doctrines); I might not always agree (at first or at all), but I am allowing the Holy Spirit to convince me otherwise.
On Deception:
Every time I was deceived it was because I did not know the Word well enough (Hos 4:6) or because I do not trust or listen to the Holy Spirit, but left the responsibility for my spiritual growth to others. Because I am human, I can obviously fall into this trap again, but hopefully not. That is also why I am so extra cautious.
On Kingdom Now
Not really familiar with this movement. I believe we are part of God’s Kingdom, yes. Now already, in the way that we are set apart for His work and in that we already receive His blessings that come with this Kingdom: freedom from the slavery the world is in, peace, the ability to love unconditionally etc. I do not believe that this Kingdom is a physical one or that we are to rule over others. We are to stand against and fight evil spirits though. I hope that makes sense.
On Retah
I am asking about Retah because I am familiar with some of her work. I cannot yet judge her because I haven’t got any convincing evidence with which to do this. For the same reason I cannot yet judge your judgement of her.
On the soft whispers of the Holy Spirit
Of course the Holy Spirit speaks to me through warnings. But, I am careful of those, since they can sometimes come out of myself. Let me give some examples: I have felt great unease (many years ago, during a short stint in a charismatic church) at all events where people were slain in the Spirit. Only recently, did I learn that that unease probably was from the Holy Spirit. At the time, I feared it was my pride (not wanting to hit the floor in front of a full congregation). I also felt great uncertainty about the believers baptism, but got baptised nonetheless (because I felt that was what God had wanted me to do). That uncertainty came out of my indoctrination in the church I was raised in though and not from the Holy Spirit. Most of my visits to this site has been accompanied with feelings of unease. But, I cannot be sure that these do not come from previous negative experiences at (worldly) blogs. So, I tend to trust the Lord’s peace more since my flesh is likely to interfere in that.
hanelie
>> I’m merely asking all these questions because I am trying to understand and learn
Yes and I am merely answering your questions.
>> Most of my visits to this site has been accompanied with feelings of unease. But, I cannot be sure that these do not come from previous negative experiences at (worldly) blogs
Please state exactly what on this blog, name the article that I have written that brings you uneasiness? Quote me where I have said anything that is not biblical? Rhea does not bring you uneasiness but this blog does. I find it amazing that since you have been on this blog you keep managing to insult me over and over again. You have one last chance.
Do you follow Joyce Meyer by any chance?
Did you ever read Choo Thomas’ book Heaven is so Real? If so what did you think?
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
N, I don’t. I follow Christ. As mnay times as people will ask me if I follow so-and-so, the answer will be the same. I follow Christ.
Deborah, are you deliberately choosing to take my testimony (as to my unease and my fear that it is not of God, but stemming from personal past experiences) as an insult? I am not sure why? It was an example and one with an honest finger pointing to myself.
The unease stems from the way people (in general) here respond to each other. I read in the responses sarcasm, intolerance, and sometimes open mockery. But, again, that is what I read in them, that is not to say it is the case. I am not going to give you examples, but if you ask the Holy Spirit, I am sure He will (if it is important enough).
I had not wanted to speak out about it if I could not do it in love. This afternoon, God answered my prayer, and granted me grace greater than I could ever have imagined. I can say I truly care about you and this site and what you are doing. I mean that. I hope you can believe that. I know your intentions are good, your effort relentless and your scriptural knowledge vast. So, I ask this in love: can you say that you truly care about the people passing through here? God forgives us repeatedly, and tells us to do it 70 x 7 times, yet you would only give me one more chance. Love is more than warning, it is willingness to die for. I know I don’t have that kind of love yet. Do you?
I learned from Paul (Cor 4) this morning not to care what others say about me. So, what you think of me does not matter. I have learned a lot here, so I will continue to pray for you. Thank you for tolerating me this long and for all the answers.
May God bless your work and heal your heart.
hanelie
>> So, I ask this in love: can you say that you truly care about the people passing through here? God forgives us repeatedly, and tells us to do it 70 x 7 times, yet you would only give me one more chance. Love is more than warning, it is willingness to die for. I know I don’t have that kind of love yet. Do you?
There you go again. You say you are not insulting me, but….ya like whatever. And you are right Hanelie I don’t care what you say to me (as I said, you or anyone else for that matter don’t hurt me) but you can join one of the 2400 that have systematically tried to trample on me. ‘You have one last chance’ to stop insulting me means that I will stop you from commenting on this blog – it has nothing to do with forgiveness.
>> Love is more than warning, it is willingness to die for
My gosh. I am not Jesus. What are you trying to say!
From the start you have hinted that I lack love and from the start I have shown you are incorrect in your thinking due to READING things incorrectly on this blog. But you insist I lack love. You have attributed other peoples comments (unsaved peoples) comments and associated them to this blog as if this blog wrote those comments. How ridiculous. And I have explained to you that conversations run across articles and get heated and if not read in order WILL be misconstrued. Yes, comments are sarcastic, mocking, intolerant. The world is evil Hanelie. I am in this world, not of this world. This blog wont bury it’s head in the sand because you have an issue with the comments section.
You speak about love Hanelie? I think the love you speak about is more in line with the new age ‘christian’ love that HAS CONSUMED the world today – that is why you can’t identify with my LOVE because it’s really is two different kinds of love. I understand you are confused and caught up in false teaching – I don’t judge you like you are judging me. (lacking love and all). I pray that one day soon you WILL see the TRUTH – that is how much I care and love you! Because with TRUTH comes loves, not the other way around. This world prays for love first and expects truth to follow suit – it never will.
I bid you farewell. Please don’t comment on this blog again (I have blocked you) – that includes emailing me. Why have I blocked you, because you will continue to insist I lack love and I will tell you otherwise and this conversation will go around in circles. You follow Retha, you can’t see anything wrong in her books where as many Christians have picked up SERIOUS error. I pray your eyes are opened Hanelie to the TRUTH, urgently.
Hanelie, in case you are still with us, if Debs did not have the love of the Lord and for His truth, she would have chucked this blog long ago with all the crud she had had to endure because she stands for truth.
Try standing up for truth and see what happens. People misunderstand your motives, they malign you and accuse you and even worse no matter how you try to speak the truth in love. They don’t understand this kind of love that is not gooshy or weak. Love cares enough to confront and speak the truth even when it is unpopular to do so. It calls for courage and obedience as the prophets of old displayed.
I hope you will test and examine every book you read in addition to the Bible. It sounds like you are deluding yourself. We can’t be too careful in these perilous times.
Prefer the word discern rather than judge because it has a more appropriate meaning…only a fool ignores discernment.
Can you imagine going into battle and ignoring the enemy strategies and formation…suicidal.
It’s the same with spiritual war-fare…if you do not discern the booby-traps the enemy places in your way you will most certainly be deceived and eventually defeated.
Deb’s has a great service to all those who are sincere and yes she is bona-fide and has integrity.
Thanks Michael,
I am not perfect and I do make mistakes, but I try my best to do what I believe I am called to do for the sake of others. I can’t stand to think that people are going to suffer eternally because they were disobedient to Jesus’s commandments. I’ve seen the dark side, I came from there before I was saved. Just the thought of having people go through what I went through sends shivers down my spine.
Love is often miscontrued in Christian circles…this because their are different types of love…selfish needing love which is of man and this natural love is what the world craves…God’s love is very different…first of all you can call it “tough love” as it requires truth first and not feelings.
The love of God is totally misunderstood and has erroneously sold by the modern day church.
God’s love is the genuine article afterall Calvary was the ultimate of all love…this was not “feelings” but a necessary transaction to break through the sin barrier so that we could could have a relationship with our Creator who loves us more than we will ever understand on this earth. God is holy and just with absolutes of integrity…the only way justice and mercy could be satisfied was at the cross.
Dear Deborah, Thank God that I am receiving again from you. I have been reading all the above comments and all this old lady can do is “shake, shake my old gray head/hair”. You have a lot of patience to keep on answering the same questions over and over again. You know what my dear, I wish you were my neighbour and we could sit together for all hours available. I have been called rebellious so many times by the church pastors (the church I used to visit) that my skin has bcome as thick as the poor rhinos horns. Do I care what they or any other say? No way! They are humans and all I care is that I can go to sleep at night trusting the Lord is “happy”☺ with me. Sometimes I think He can only shake His head for my doings☺
There is one topic I would love to hear your views or any of your wise friends: ATTENDING CHURCH. My concern is: how do you attend a church where the pastor has been in adultery, married and divorced several times, judging and condeming people for a lack of faith when the poor do not have money to attend their “seminars” of 10 steps to wealth?? In the meantime there are people in their congregation with no food, children has to go to school, electricity cut off. But when I used to question this, I was trampled that only the top of my hair showed. I am so tired to hear all these sermons about “money is the most written about in the Bible”. Pray our Healer will give you the health you need. God bless
Dear Ria
That must be the most loveliest comment I have had recently. I wish I was your neighbor too. The people I meet, I try too subtly minister to and they end up running away from me – literally, sometimes before I have even said anything important. My husband laughs at me, because he says I bring out the worst in people without even saying anything lol. It’s that bad. I had a NAR pastor actually greet everyone (about 15 people) in the room but me one day because as I heard later on he sensed there was something about me that he didn’t like. haha. How nice. Maybe he sensed I was going to question him on his sermon he gave that morning – it was totally twisted and I was going to asked him how he came to his conclusion when the verses clearly state the opposite to what he preached.
The church attendance thing I believe is an individuals choice. I do not attend church, due to many reasons. 1) I can’t find a church in my area that is kosher 2) other reasons I will not state on this blog that have nothing to do with anyone else. I am happy to sit at home and research and study and fellowship with my husband (and I have people I am in contact with over the phone and the internet – why over the phone and the net? Because they live miles away from me.) I do not believe for one second that one will lose their salvation because they do not want to attend church. Some people seem to think that if you don’t want to fellowship your spiritual life is at stake – nonsense. The only REAL friend we need is Jesus Christ anyway. Men are nothing. The way we communicate and fellowship for that matter has changed where the internet is playing a great role. We are in the last days where organised churches are in apostasy. Not everyone can be expected to find a little gem of a church out there that is still preaching the gospel truth. Some are lucky, others live in areas where there is nothing. If the internet is the only way to find genuine Christian fellowship then so be it and I believe Jesus will be VERY happy with that.
Much love to you Ria 🙂
@ Debs “My husband laughs at me, because he says I bring out the worst in people without even saying anything lol. It’s that bad. I had a NAR pastor actually greet everyone (about 15 people) in the room but me one day because as I heard later on he sensed there was something about me that he didn’t like.”
seriously? lool must be the Holy Spirit reacting to the false spirit in him. I’ve had that before and thought maybe I was possessed…because I wasnt falling on the floor or “getting in the spirit”
Lee
serious
>> must be the Holy Spirit reacting to the false spirit in him.
My sentiments exactly.
Ria
>>>you have a lot of patience to keep on answering the same questions over and over again. You know what my dear,<<<
Great school for apprentice "discerners" would we say?
People who do not understand throw out the verse not to forsake the gathering together – to mean you must have your posterier planted in a pew. Of course that is preferable, but as you say, in this day and age it is next to impossible to find an organized church setting where the Word of God is honored and the Gospel uncompromised.
Fellowship is gathering online with like-minded saints, talking over the phone, etc. Some are hindered by health issues. True Christians will desire fellowship and just because they don’t find it in a church gathering doesn’t make them disobedient to the admonition in the Word. In fact, it may mean quite the opposite – forsaking the apostasy that exists.
I pray for those rare little churches who have a pastor after God’s own heart – they are brave souls.
Burning Lamp.
You are quite right in what you are saying and it IS very difficult to find true believers and a true church. I have tried to find a Scripturally based church here in Durban, and I can’t.
I’m so glad I came across this website with all the responses. I haven’t read all of them, but I’m a Christian who is very interested in this topic and I am in need of fellowship (still looking for a new church). I know a lot of scripture, and I’ve heard other Christians say things like “I’m not his judge” or “judge not lest yea be judged” and basically want to drop anything relating to really looking at someone’s behavior and deciding in your own mind whether it’s Christ-like or not. I’m not talking about nit-picking, I’m talking about often a serious situation, something said in church that just doesn’t sit right with scripture, mistreatment in a marriage, etc. My husband and I ended up in a heated debate last night about the Dan Rather interview with Gene Simmons from the band “Kiss.” This morning I was reading my Bible and thought back to last night, my later researching of Gene Simmons (who my husband now has great respect for), and I thought to myself, “I don’t like him.” Then in my mind I heard the words “that’s not how you are to look at him,” (can’t remember verbatim but was something like that). Then I thought about those words and realized God was talking to me, so instead of going on with what I was doing, I stopped to contemplate and be open to God’s voice (I’m not talking about a thundering audible voice coming down from heaven, but as Christians I believe you know what I mean). More thoughts came into my mind that I was to love Gene Simmons as Christ loves him, even though I do not like his actions. This softened my heart. Last night when discussing the interview with my husband, my husband was siding with Gene Simmons about what Simmons felt about God, and I was on the defensive, leaving my husband saying he did not like talking religion with me because it always ends up in an argument. In looking back, I see what went wrong. I knew the truth from the scripture and from my relationship with God, but I came at it with a somewhat angry/critical spirit. I need prayer for that. My husband and I have been married 34 ys. now and he still doesn’t go to church with me, still won’t read his Bible, and still questions God (as Gene Simmons does) but he does believe that God exists. Please pray for me that I may use my discernment while at the same time loving the sinner, but hating the sin. Thank you!! Maggie Mae
Maggie
I am from South Africa and I did not get to see this interview with Gene Simmons. Can you tell me what he said..roughly?
Remember, we love our neighbor, but that does not mean one bit that we love what they say…we are to stand up for Jesus at all costs. You can’t defend a man who speaks against Jesus. But you love him never the less, so much so that you will preach the gospel to him that he comes to know Jesus Christ as his personal saviour.
>> Then I thought about those words and realized God was talking to me, so instead of going on with what I was doing, I stopped to contemplate and be open to God’s voice
How do you know it was God speaking to you? Did you sit in silence waiting for God to speak to you? If so, do you know that this is called contemplative prayer. God will always direct us to the bible for answers – this is where He speaks to us. If you have to sit and wait on God to hear his voice, this is not right.
P.S.–I have prayed for Mr. Simmons. I also need prayer for maintaining a “gentle spirit” — as you know, that’s worth a lot according to God/His Word. Thank you for your prayers!!! Maggie Mae
Deborah – I was on the defensive for God, not for Gene Simmons. In the interview, Gene Simmons said he did believe in God, but he wants to “sit Him down” (something like that) and ask Him why he allows so much misery to happen to good people (especially towards children). Gene also said he helps over 1,000+ children in Africa with an education, food, etc., because he doesn’t want the children to be like he was when he was living in Jerusalem with his mother and they barely had anything to eat, where he knew Jews were hated, and where his father went off to war every day which might be in the next town over, and he felt all alone and felt the hatred around him until his mother received a “care package” that had a can of peaches in it and a used red sweater that had a rip in it. He said he loved the red sweater, rip and all, all the time and was very proud of it. He said it was then that he realized the world was not such a bad place, and that there were strangers out there who cared about him and his mother. I believe you can U-tube the interview as it was very recent (my husband had recorded it and we watched it several days after the actual interview took place).
About knowing the words were from God, what I heard in my mind did not conflict with scripture. I said in my heart that didn’t like that man, and in my heart I closed the door so to say on Mr. Simmons. I do believe it was God who interjected into that attitude I had when I heard in my mind “that’s not how you are to look at him” because the Holy Spirit continued to speak to me that to be like Christ, I should love Mr. Simmons (and then the thought of praying for Simmons came into my mind–see how my attitude started changing by listening to the Holy Spirit) even though I don’t like his behavior or everything he says. I felt a confirmation in my heart from the Holy Spirit even as I type this. You don’t need to worry that by loving Mr. Simmons I will be supporting his bad behavior or bad statements that he makes, but I will be praying for him. Please pray for me as I asked in my earlier comment. Thank you, Deborah!
Your Sis in Christ, Maggie Mae
Maggie
Okie dokie Maggie I understand 🙂
I will pray for you Maggie, and for your husband too, it seems he needs it.
Enjoy your stay on this blog!
That you Deborah. I really do appreciate your prayers for me and for my husband! Yes, he does need your prayers.
Love, Your Sis in Christ
Maggie Mae
I meant, “Thank you Deborah,” not “That you Deborah.” Slight typo there. 😳
Maggie Mae
lol, I understand 🙂
Occasionally I look upon this site.
I read Maggie May’s comment (08/10), regarding that phrase that cannot be found in the Bible, no matter how hard you try to find it: “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin”.
What is there in a sinner but sin? Is this not a meaningless distinction. What is there in a sinner but sin? God hates sin. Is not “God angry with the wicked every day”? Psalm 7.11.
I had never heard of Simmons before, I looked him up on Wikipedia, and well!? Having said this, nothing is impossible with Almighty God: Should God “Grant him repentance unto life” Acts 11.18., Simmons and whosever else will be saved. If not….
Hello Jumpy – Please understand I never said “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin,” was in the Bible as you can see if you re-read my earlier blog. It just came to mind when I was explaining the situation to Deborah.
If you’d like, there is a very interesting article about “love the sinner, hate the sin” in the Apologetics Press. You can cut and past the following website into your address bar: “http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=2035”.
I don’t understand the answers I am getting to my blog. It seems the people who answer me are quick to find a point to criticize me on, but are very slow, if not at all, showing humility, wanting to uplift me in my request for prayer, not gentle or encouraging in their response (especially since I opened up my heart to who I hoped were fellow Christians and asked for their prayers). I really wanted to find a site where Christians want to at the foremost “build each other up” and fellowship with each other. Of course there will be disagreements, but I don’t believe we are to be so quick to tear each other down with what seems like an attitude of criticism.
Is it just me, or does this blog site seem to foster a lot of criticism and hardness between brothers and sisters in Christ? If so, will some one please let me know where there is a Christian blog site where most of the writers are more into building each other up and wanting the loving fellowship that should occur between believers? I don’t know about all of you out there, but I sure need my brothers’ and sisters’ love and understanding in what can be a very difficult life. I’m not saying the responders are to lie by agreeing to something they don’t believe is true, but aren’t Christians supposed to be more gentle in their response? There is a way to debate an issue in a more respectful, gentle manner. I personally don’t like constant debates because there is so much of that in this life. I guess I’m a bit weary of the constant debating after working in law offices for 30+ years.
We are to be peacemakers, and these scriptures help me with that:
Proverbs 15:1 A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
James 1:19-20 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
Philippians 2:3 ESV Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
I am nothing without Jesus Christ. He saved my soul. He’s saved my life many times as I drank my way through life in dealing with the severe abuse my sister and I endured while we were children. I am in awe that I am a child of God. I know Christ died for me “while I was yet a sinner.” He actually loved me when I was a sinner. For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son…. So He loved all of us while we were yet sinners. God is so loving; so wonderful.
P.S. – Gene Simmons is the main band member in the hard rock group, “Kiss” (has a very long tongue).
Jumpy,
Would you rather have John 3:16 read as follows,
For God so hated the world (of sinners), that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever was elected unto salvation before the foundation of the world should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(John 3:16, the CRV).
Perhaps you may want this post on Psalm 5:5.
The word “Trinity” is also nowhere to be found in the Bible, no matter how hard you try to find it. However, do you believe in the Trinity?
Hi Maggie,
I agree that we should be gentle in our approach to one another and I also agree that God loves sinners. But you know, even Jesus seems to have been less than gentle (if I may call it that) with people at times.
I am sure you wouldn’t like it when I called you a sly, cunning and mischievous rogue, would you?
John the Baptist, whom Jesus honored as his greatest prophet (Matthew 11:11), once said the following:
What I am trying to tell you, is that we should learn to have a balanced view of Bible truths. Those verses you quoted are wonderful and indeed must be obeyed. However, there are also other verses that are equally wonderful although they may seem to be unkind. Like this one for instance:
The notion that God hates sinners is another Gospel. It’s an infamous lie.
God bless.
Maggie
This is a Christian blog – the articles etc, however the comment section anyone can comment. We allow comments by anyone because we do not know who is Christian and who is not. We allow comments for everyone so that we can help people and correct them on their false beliefs. When someone answers you and they are wrong in their thinking, do not take it personally, just correct them. There is no criticism between brothers and sisters in Christ on this blog – most people who comment on this blog are not Christian and attack us for preaching the truth. For instance, we and you have no idea if Jumpy is actually a Christian. Having said that, Jumpy is wrong in his thinking. Please do not take the comments personally. Here is an idea, if you do not like the comments section, please don’t read it, just read the articles.
I’ve noticed people have gotten on new bandwagon lately by saying “he who is without sin let him cast the first stone” But I think to myself wasn’t Jesus was referring actual literal stones?
Another thing I wonder Does casting the mote out of your eye mean you are to be completely free from all sins before judging ?
Hi Laura,
Stoning was a way of execution in the Old Testament. It is still practiced by Muslims in the Middle East. Jesus actually said to the rabble who wanted to stone a woman who was caught in adultery, “You are all sinners and you yourselves need to be executed for your transgressions against God just as much as this woman who was caught in adultery.”
No one can ever be sinless this side of the grave. In fact, the Bible warns that whoever boasts that he or she is without sin is not saved. To say you are sinless is tantamount to saying you don’t need Jesus to be your Saviour because He came to the world to save sinners and not those who think they are sinless. (1 John 1:8; 1 Timothy 1:15). So, as you can see, Matthew 7:5 does not mean that you first need to be sinless to rebuke others for their sins. It simply means I cannot rebuke someone for sins I myself are guilty of. I cannot, for instance, tell someone smoking is a sin whilst I myself am a smoking chimney. I must first confess that sin and abandon it before I can rebuke someone else for that particular sin. At any rate, the best way to rebuke someone for their sin, is to tell them that you were once guilty of doing those very same sins but that God in his wonderful mercy has forgiven you and now you are living a life of victory over those sins in the Name of Jesus.