Jacob Prasch & Chuck Missler – Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch, Chuck Missler - Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch and his friend Chuck Missler both teach the the same demonic Nephilim teaching that angels came down to earth and had sexual relations with human women who somehow miraculously gave birth to ginormous babies who grew to be around 450 feet tall.  Imagine that!  The poor woman must have died giving birth, oh wait…what about carrying a baby that big? *Let’s all laugh together shall we*

The thing is, this is false teaching, it’s a pack of demonic lies, yet Jacob Prasch continues to tells us ‘his opinion’ over and over and over again, brainwashing an unsuspecting audience.  Why does he not examine the Bible only to find the truth of the matter?  Instead of look at occult sources for answers, and then try and fit the bible into his occult conclusions. What is so important about this false demonic Nephilim teachingthat he must keep mentioning it?  And no one bothers to question him because they are all too scared for fear of the backlash.  (See bottom of article regarding backlash by Jacob Prasch).  Well here at DTW we are not scared.  We will ask Jacob Prach why he preaches this doctrine.

Now we understand that Jacob Prasch used Midrash (which contains many fantastical tales relating to the Bible and secret knowledge), to help him come to his conclusions, and we know that Midrash is EXTRA BIBLICAL!  (See this article: Moriel Ministries and MIDRASH)

Lets have a look and see what Jacob Prasch has to say regarding the demonic Nephilim. 

The Future History of the Church, Part 1

by James Jacob Prasch

A typological and midrashic examination of what will happen in the future of the church by seeing how the past history of the church is recapitulated eschatologically; how past events happen again in the Last Days. What to expect, and what to prepare for.  [Emphasis added]

The demonic Nephilim Then and Now

When I was a young Christian, I was a hippie who got saved out of the drug culture. We used to witness eight hours a day sometimes because we thought Jesus was coming next week, so what did anything else matter? I met so many people who said their beliefs were based on gods on other planets, UFOs and such.

When Jimmy Carter became President of the United States, he declassified something called The Blue Report that was put together by the American Air Force, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It was not all declassified, but Carter declassified a major portion of it. They found no evidence from exobiology for extraterrestrial life, but they had innumerable cases of people using parapsychology to conjure up extraterrestrial phenomena; there were even cultists who could make these things appear. Similar studies were done in Great Britain. Reading the Blue Report can be quite frightening. There is no scientific basis for belief in extraterrestrials, but a firmly recorded basis in the occult. Uri Geller, the Israeli spoon-bender, said that there were people on other planets trying to persuade him to be the Messiah.

The demonic Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the demonic Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different demonic Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No one is divided over this issue, only false teachers who want to tickle the ears of their followers want to divide the truth into error.  Please read below under the heading of  The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the demonic Nephilim to understand the Biblical truth of the demonic Nephilim.]

Now, most of the popular “deliverance ministry” going around today is a lot of Ghostbusters-type nonsense with no Scriptural basis; I would seriously question whether most of these people could handle real demon possession if it ever faced them – it’s no joke. But I once cast a demon out of a black necromancer who was having sexual relations with demons.

There was a witch in England on television in America, who gave her testimony when she got saved and told of having intercourse with a devil; people witnessed this. This kind of activity was around in the days of Noah, and it will be around again in the Last Days. Somehow demonoids – they were virtual monsters – will exist on the earth again, as they did in Noah’s day. We will see an increase in occult activity, but particularly in this kind of high Satanism; even to the point of people having relations with demons. It already goes on, but it’s going to increase.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  To compare a testimony of someone who had sexual relations with the devil to that of Genesis 6 is pure speculation.  First note that people today who have relations with demons do not fall pregnant – never have and never will.  Will we see an increase in demonic activity, yes, but to say that we will see a rise of the demonic Nephilim again in the end times as was back in the days of Noah is not the truth.]

Man is utterly fallen. I studied science in university, and I have no problem with science. However, it remains that man is fallen. So while I have no problem with science, I know what happens when you put science into the hands of fallen man. It is easy to visualize the kinds of atrocities that can be accomplished with biogenetic engineering; people can eventually take DNA, clone it, and re-create Josef Stalin or a whole race of Josef Stalins. There are things happening right now in genetics that when I studied biology in university would have seemed like science fiction; they no longer are.

I have no doubt – I am not teaching this doctrinally, this is my own opinion – that the world is being set up for a huge spiritual seduction in which UFOs and extraterrestrials along with other things of this type will play a role. It can be seen in David Bowie’s albums and in Stephen Spielberg’s movies, for example. The Bible talks about “the fallen ones”; the ones who fell from heaven, the demonic Nephilim. The cosmos needs to be cleansed. I am quite convinced that extraterrestrial phenomena will be a large part of the spiritual seduction that is on its way. I am also quite afraid of the developments in biogenetic engineering – not the developments themselves, but seeing that kind of technology in the hands of fallen man. When combined with the occult, which scientology and other of these types of groups are already doing, the ramifications are terrible. Somehow, there was a physical manifestation of demons in the days of Noah; that will recur in some way in the Last Days before the Return of Jesus. I won’t speculate on it further, but I do see the way things are heading. This is the kind of world that we have to prepare our children to live in; think about that and then tell me you don’t believe in Christian school!   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  First Jacob Prasch says he has no doubt, but then goes on to tell you that this is NOT BIBLICAL DOCTRINE, it’s only HIS OPINION.  If it’s his opinion, then why oh why is he preaching his opinion as if it were doctrine!  Jacob Prasch preaches this demonic Nephilim teaching on very video I’ve watched, practically ever conference I’ve watched, and mentions it in practically every book he writes.  Why?  Why is he so enthusiastic on getting this lie out to the people?  So they can run over to Chuck Missler’s website and be ensnared in the trap that has been set up for them there?  He says “the fallen ones” meaning “those who fell from heaven”, instead it actually means “apostates”, it is a passive form of  “ones who have fallen”. “The cosmos needs to be cleansed” he says?  What a load of nonsense.  [Emphasis added]

He says we have to prepare our children to live in a world with demon monsters walking around before Jesus returns (presumably before the rapture).  No my dear readers, prepare you and your children for a lot worse;  for men (who don’t look like monsters at all), but who come to you as wolves in sheep’s clothing preaching doctrines contrary to scripture leading you and your children to hell.

Yes there will be an increase in demonic activity in the atmosphere, it is increasing daily as Satan’s time nears an end and people’s minds are caught up in doctrines of demons – Christianity no longer exists, Paganism is now the religion of choice,  just as it was in the Days of Noah – wickedness abounds and will increase to unprecedented proportions.  Just as it was in the Days of Noah and before that, there were extremely wicked people ruling, like we have today; family’s of statue (Rothchilds, Rockerfellers, etc) dictating Satan’s way forward into a NWO.

Source: (link no longer online)

The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the Nephilim

Are the demonic Nephilim demonic monsters or are they not? The reason I am so passionate about the answer to this question is because of the rise in interest in the supernatural, i.e, aliens, trans-humanism etc.  There are stories running abound that during the end-times demons will be free to do as they please on earth, producing offspring like the demonic Nephilim.  The bible is very clear that we are to not let our minds be captured by occult imagination because when human minds get hold of unbiblical ideas it runs free and causes all sorts of havoc.

Note:  Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.  DTW endorses this below article only.

Nephilim

By Pastor Anton Bosch – Permission received by Anton Bosch to re-publish his article.  

The Hebrew word Nephilim is translated “giants” in the Old Testament. It only appears twice in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33.  A whole series of doctrines have been built around this word, in spite of the fact that the word only appears rarely. These doctrines on the Nephilim are based on Genesis 6:1-4. (It must be noted that most speculators lean very heavily on extra-biblical writings for most of their information.) The theories can basically be summed up as follows:

Demons / angels (sons of God) had illicit relationships with women (the daughters of men) and these perverted relations produced genetically mutated beings known as Nephilim (giants). God then imprisoned some of the angles who did this and in order to purify the bloodline of man God brought on the Flood. Through genetic engineering these demonic Nephilim will be resurrected, one of which will be the Antichrist[i]. To these people, the demonic Nephilim are also connected to so-called extra-terrestrial forms of life.

Since these theories are gaining ground and a number of books have been published based on this hypothesis, it is necessary to examine Genesis 6 again and see what exactly it teaches. We will discover that the proponents of these theories break every principle of hermeneutics. Here is the text:

“Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown”. (Genesis 6:1-4)

Sons of God

The first problem revolves around who in the passage are the “sons of God”. Some make the connection with Job 1:6; 2:1. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” (Job 1:6). It is obvious, and not contested, that the “sons of God” in Job were angels. But does that mean that this term in Genesis 6:2 also refers to angels?

First, the normal meaning of “sons of God” is “believers”. “But as many as received him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12). Job 1:6 (a poetic book) is the only place where angels are called “sons of God”. It is logical and reasonable therefore that the normal meaning be attached to the term here, rather than the exception, as found in Job, unless there were something in the text that made a connection between Genesis 6 and Job 1 – which is absent.

Second Jesus explicitly said that “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30) (See also Luke 20:34-36). Therefore in Jesus’ own words, angels are asexual and do not procreate.

So here is the problem. Genesis is obscure about who had the relations. Jesus said angels do not have relations. So either Jesus was mistaken or the “sons of God” were not angels. You choose! It is really as simple as that – there are no other options.

Some try to get around this by saying that the angels inhabited (possessed) human bodies to do this. That sounds good. But here is the question: A Christian man has the Holy Spirit in him. When that man produces a child by his wife, what is the child? God or man? Clearly, it is a man. There are multitudes of people in the world who are demon possessed and who procreate. What do they produce? Human babies or mutants? Obviously human babies. So why should Genesis 6 be any different. If demons entered into men to produce offspring the children would be human, and only human.

One of the principles of hermeneutics is that the Old Testament is interpreted in the light of the New Testament and not the other way round. In order to say that the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 are angels (or demons) we must discard the light of the NT and that should never happen.

The nature of the relationships

The next problem is that it is claimed that the angels had illicit relations with women. Yet the text is very clear: “they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose” (Genesis 6:2b). The phrase “took wives for themselves” only, and always, means marriage. It never refers to casual, illicit or adulterous relationships. (See Genesis 11:29 &Ruth 1:4). To suggest otherwise is reading into the text that which is simply not there.

Giants

The theory goes that the giants were the product of these illicit relationships. We have shown that the text does not refer to illicit relationships and that the fathers could not be angels.

Genesis 6:4, again is very clear: “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.”  Notice that it says there were giants (fact number 1) and afterwards the sons of God came into… (fact number 2). There is NO connection between the fact that there were giants and the fact that people had children.

It is exactly like me saying: “There is milk in the supermarket and eggs are $1.50 a dozen” Milk has no effect on the price, or even the existence, of eggs and the other way around. I am simply stating two facts that describe things about food in the supermarket.

In Genesis 6 Moses is describing the state of the world before the flood. He makes no connection between the demonic Nephilim and the sons of God and daughters of men. If the sentence had been reversed as follows: “The sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore demonic Nephilim then you could postulate some theory about the nature of this process. But the text does not give us any room to connect the demonic Nephilim with these marriages.

Genesis 6:4 does say that the children that were produced “were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown“. “Mighty men” is a term which is used 154 times in the OT and simply refers to powerful men, either physically or politically. Just like there are many mighty men today and some are men of God and others are worldly and unsaved, so there were mighty men in those days, of which Noah was one.

“Men of old” also holds no mystique, these were simply the heroes of bygone days.

“Men of renown” is also used in Numbers 16:2 and Ezekiel 23:23. These are famous men, or well-known men. The Hebrew term literally means “men with a name” meaning they had “made a name” for themselves.

The descendants of these relationships were not monsters, mutants, or anything extraordinary. Some were ordinary people and some were powerful, some were little known and others had made a name for themselves. Genesis 6:5 (the next verse) goes on to describe these people as wicked and worthy of God’s judgment.

Furthermore, the translation of the word demonic Nephilim in Genesis 6:4 as “giants” is very arbitrary. There are many other possible ways this word could be translated here: “Bullies”, “mighty ones” or “tyrants”.  At least one dictionary states that the demonic Nephilim in Genesis and in Numbers were two different peoples[ii]. Once again, we cannot build an entire doctrine on a word which we cannot translate or explain with any measure of certainty.

Genesis 6:4 is simply a description of life before the flood and not a commentary on mysterious genetic mutant life forms. Jesus obviously has this verse in mind when he says: “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (Matthew 24:37-39) (note the reference to marriage in both verses).

One of the most important principles of hermeneutics is that the verse has to be read in its context. The context is clear, that life was going on as usual, people were becoming more and more self-absorbed and sinful but judgment was coming. This is the same point Jesus was making in Matthew 24 – people will be self-absorbed and fixated on every-day life and will not be ready for His coming.

The cause of the Flood

Those who speculate about the demonic Nephilim connect them with the reason for the Flood. Once again, there is no connection there. Genesis 6 describes life on earth. Yes, there were Nephilim, but more significantly, people were marrying and having children and becoming more wicked. Genesis 6:5-6 cannot be clearer. God’s judgment fell because of the wickedness of man. This had absolutely nothing to do with demons, angels or mutants. Look at these verses again: “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”(Genesis 6:5-7).

If the flood had anything to do with anything other than man’s sinfulness, either Moses or Jesus would have said something in that regard, but both are silent about demons, angels and mutants. The flood had nothing to do with clearing the gene pool. It was all about clearing the earth of sinful and wicked people. Even Sunday school children should be able to tell you that.

If the flood had anything to do with God wanting to destroy the giants because they were “contaminated seed” or to purge the gene pool then, Noah and his sons should have been destroyed also. Noah and his sons carried the gene from which giants were formed. This is obvious since giants (demonic Nephilim) are born after the flood and were present in the Land when the spies were sent to scout out the land (Numbers 13:33). These giants were descendants of Noah since all of humankind after the flood descended from Noah.

Extra-biblical evidence

These speculators quote the Book of Enoch (and other apocryphal books) in support of their ideas as though they are Scripture. Yet, Enoch and the rest of the Apocrypha are not part of the canon of Scripture for obvious reasons – they are not, and have never been regarded as inspired except by apostate churches and false teachers.

Once again they break one of the fundamentals of Evangelical and Reformed hermeneutics: We hold only to Scripture and do not add, nor subtract from it (Revelation 22:18; Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32). It is especially reprehensible to formulate an entire doctrine on extra-biblical evidence as these people are doing.

The fact is that there is overwhelming evidence in very old writings that the Hebrew sages never regarded the “sons of God” as angels or demons. But we dare not use that as evidence lest we sink to the same level as these speculators.

Jude 6 is quoted in support of the theories. This verse says:

  • “And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6).

Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

2 Peter 2:4-5

Verse 4 is similar to Jude 6:

  • For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly.” (2 Peter 2:4-5).

To those who pluck verses out of their context there appears to be a connection between the sinning angels and the flood. But look at the context:

  • 2 Peter 2:1-3 There were, and will be, false teachers and they will “bring upon themselves swift destruction“.
  • 2 Peter 2:4 Angels sinned and God “reserved them for judgment
  • 2 Peter 2:5 The ancient world sinned and God judged them by the flood but spared Noah
  • 2 Peter 2:6-8 Sodom and Gomorrah sinned and God judged them but spared Lot
  • 2 Peter 2:9 Therefore in the future, the Lord will judge the unjust and save the godly.

The angels and the pre-flood world are simply two of four examples that Peter quotes to show that God will punish sin. The connections between the sinning angels and the flood are the same connection with false teachers and Sodom – the connections have nothing to do with gene mutation but is all about sin and the consequences thereof.

Conclusion

The purpose of this brief article is not to provide answers to all the questions that surround Genesis 6. In fact, we do not have all the answers and those who claim they have a full and detailed explanation for these verses are speculating. The point of the text in Genesis 6, and 2Peter 2 is to warn that God will not tolerate sin and will judge it.

But what we are certain of is that the theories about angels producing mutant life forms are not Biblical and that the conclusions derived from this theory are fictional, at best.

  • “…charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith“. (1 Timothy 1:3-4).
  • “But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.”(1 Timothy 4:7).
  • For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

[i] This is a very brief and highly sanitized summary of some very extreme and bizarre teachings. But it must also be noted that those who hold to these teachings differ greatly amongst themselves as to how far they take their conclusions.

[ii]Thomas, R. L. (1998). New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.

More important notes:

1)  David and Goliath – 

TheGreatKhali

Yes, there were giants but not in the sense of the pictures of Jack and the beanstalk. Goliath was anywhere between 6’9” to 10′ tall.  The oldest manuscripts – the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the first-century historian Josephus, and the fourth century Septuagint manuscripts – all give his height as “four cubits and a span”, about six feet, nine inches tall (two meters), but later manuscripts have it as “six cubits and a span,” which would make him almost ten feet tall (three meters). The average height of the LA Lakers basketball team is 6’4″, with a few of them at 6’9″.  

Andre the Giant from the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) stood at 7’4″ while the Great Khali currently stands at 7’1″.  [Note that DTW has never referred to the dead-sea scrolls for information, but to help explain Goliath in this instance, it is very necessary.]

Saul stood “head-and-shoulders” above the rest of the people and David (it seems) could fit into his armour. David appears extra small to Goliath because he was just a youth when he fought and killed Goliath. However when David grew up he was able to use Goliath’s sword (1 Sam 21). So as adults David and Saul were almost as big as Goliath! – now that’s a revolutionary thought!

The same goes for the Canaanites, they were giant men, but not from another world.  There is no possible way that these giants were of an extraterrestrial nature because the bible does not say so – the bible does say there were giants before the flood and their DNA must have been in Noah because the DNA is carried forward to beyond the flood. We need to remain silent on the things the Bible is silent on – we can’t go around and make wild speculations as many well known pastors are doing.  To again speculate that angels came down again to have relations with human women to produce more giants after the flood is just nonsense.

2)  Those giant skeletons they supposedly found in Greece and Middle East –

There is a good reason we haven’t heard about this epic discovery in the New York TimesScientific American, or any other legitimate publication, and that is that these photos, like the one circulating since 2004 purporting to show a giant skeleton found in the Middle East, are fakes.

As if it weren’t preposterous enough to claim that one 15-foot-tall fossilized human skeleton had turned up without media fanfare, we’re asked to believe that archaeologists recently dug up four of them in a single location (Greece). In point of fact, each of the photos appears to have been taken at a different time and place.

So far I’ve only been able to locate the original of one of them, but it serves as clear proof that Photoshopping took place. Image #4 was created by inserting an outsized human skull into a photo of a 1993 University of Chicago dinosaur dig in Niger, Africa (see the original here). If you look at a blow-up of the doctored image, the skull appears flattened and unnatural (and one of the workers actually appears to be standing on it!).

Moreover, the same cut-and-pasted skull was used to create image #2 (see side-by-side comparison). A blow-up of image #2 with brightness and contrast enhanced reveals unnaturally dark “shadows” around the skull. The skull in Image #3 is marked by incongruously bright highlights on the teeth and around the edges of the gaping temple wound. And in image #5 the shadows coming off the skeleton fall more or less toward the camera, while the worker’s shadow falls due left, suggesting that elements of two different photos were combined.

Finally, despite frequent references to “giants” in ancient mythology and English translations of the Bible, there is no generally accepted scientific or historical evidence that such beings ever actually existed (unless you consider the Weekly World News a reliable source).

See here for more giant skeletons pictures and why they are a hoax as well:  http://yowcrooks.blogspot.com/2008/12/giant-skeleton-hoax.html

3)  A greater understanding of Jude 5-10:

  • And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6)

Jude 6 is quoted in support of their theories connecting it to Genesis 6 that angels came down and had relations with women. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

To explain Jude 5 – 8 properly, it contains a number of separate examples of God judging  sin. Just like paprables where there is a central truth and the only connection between the parables is that truth (e.g. That which was lost is found: lost coin, lost sheep, lost son).  Here there are four examples showing the same truth that God judges sin. The examples are: 1) Israel’s unbelief in not crossing into the land, 2) angels who did not keep their proper domain, 3) Sodom and Gomorrah’s sexual sin and 4) false teachers.

If there is a sexual connection between Sodom and the angels (the angels sinned in a sexual way) then there must also be a connection between Sodom and Israel and between Israel and the angels. But that is not the link here.  The link is SIN. In the case of Israel it is unbelief (Hebrews 3 & 4), in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it is homosexuality and in the case of the angels it was rebellion when Satan was cast down from heaven and 1/3 of the angels followed.

Note that the text must be read in its context and we cannot simply make connections and draw conclusions that are not there. Now concerning the statement “who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode”. People connect that to Sodom and say that this means angels had relations with women. But we need to examine the statement carefully. The first word “proper domain” according to Thayer means:

– Original: oiketerion
– Transliteration: Arche
– Phonetic: ar-khay’
– Definition:
1.  beginning, origin
2.  the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3.  that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4.  the extremity of a thing
a.  of the corners of a sail
5.  the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a.  of angels and demons

Note the word is “Arche” from which we get “arch-enemy”, “arch-rival” etc. This has nothing to do with sexual orientation but with primacy, authority etc. The second is “abode”. This is also a very common word: (oiketerion) which simply means house, habitation or abode.The verse then teaches that the angels did not remain in their proper authority and left their place. This could be construed to mean they had relations with the daughters of men. But it forces and construes a meaning that is NOT obvious to the sentence.

A more natural interpretation is that the angels rebelled against God’s authority at the very beginning when Satan was cast out of heaven and left their place in the order and hierarchy of God. The English Standard version (ESV) is one of the best translations available. The ESV has the verse as follows:  “And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day-

This is supported by June 9-10 which speaks about false preachers who do not know their proper place when dealing with the Devil and demons (and yes, Satan is a “dignitary”  – powerful person.

What we do not know is why some of these angels (demons) were chained in the “abyss” and others were left to roam the earth. We can only surmise that some sinned more grievously than others. But it also seems that the Lord can (and probably does) throw more of them into the abyss for whatever reason:

  • Luke 8:30-32   30 Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.  32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them.

  Now for Jude 7:  The cities around them refers to Admah and Zeboim:  

  • Deuteronomy 29:23  “And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:”
  • Hosea 11:8  “How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.”

The words “similar manner to these” can only refer to the most recently mentioned subjects – the cities. There is no way, at all that it can refer to the Angels. No language works like that.

When we say “Tom went to church and John went to the mall and Jerry went to the beach and he got sunburned.” The “he” can only refer to the most recent subject – Jerry.

So the meaning is very clear and obvious that Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to immorality and Admah and Zeboim did likewise. There is no other possibility.The problem here is that it all begins with a bad exegesis is Genesis 6. If you read Genesis 6 to mean that Angels had relations with women (and reject the words of Jesus that they cannot) then you have to find further support. Once you have jumped to that conclusion, it is easy to misread and misinterpret Jude 6 & Jude 7. But if you do not make assumptions about relations between angels and women, then there is no way you can read that into Jude. So, you have to force the meaning of Gen 6 and then you have to force the meaning of Jude 6 to come to a conclusion.

source:  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/the-truth-about-the-sons-of-god-the-daughters-of-men-and-the-nephilim/

Alien Encounter -Chuck Missler

Some false teaching by Chuck Missler.

‘And Also After That’:

The Return of the Nephilim?

by Chuck Missler – September 1997 Personal Update NewsJournal.

In the last article, “Mischievous Angels or Sethites?” we explored the importance of understanding Genesis 6. The straightforward presentation of the text seems to clearly portray a strange union of fallen angels with women to produce a hybrid race called the “Nephilim,” or fallen ones.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW NOTE:  The straightforward presentation of the text clearly states that it was the marriages of the seed of godly Seth with the daughters of ungodly Cain. Not angels with women.]

We enumerated the reasons we accept the “angel” view and why the liberal “Sethite” view is inadequate.

[DTW note:  Oh so you do not accept the Sethite view simply because then you can’t make up a whole new false doctrine.]

Far beyond simply a misunderstanding of the forthright presentation of the text, the “Sethite” view also obscures apprehension of the prophetic Scriptures.

Post-Flood Occurrences

Regarding the Nephilim, Genesis 6:4 also includes the haunting phrase, “…and also after that….” Apparently these strange events were not confined just to the period before the Flood.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  Nothing haunting about it, the fact is people turned wickedly evil again after the flood.]

We find that there seems to be some recurrence of those things which resulted in unusual “giants” appearing in subsequent periods later in the Old Testament narrative, specifically the giant-races of Canaan.    [Emphasis added]

There were a number of tribes such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, and Zamsummim, that were giants.1 The kingdom of Og, the King of Bashan, was the “land of the giants.”2 Later, we also find Arba,3 Anak, and his seven sons (the “Anakim”) also as giants, along with the famed Goliath4 and his four brothers.5    

[DTW note:  Unusual giants, yes, but not demonic Nephilim.  None of the verses state that the tribes of Rephaim, Emim, Horim and Zamsummin were demonic Nephilim.  King Og was a giant, Arba was a giant, Anak and his seven sons were also Giants and so was Goliath and his 4 brothers.  What is a giant?  A very big person.  Not a demonic offspring.  Moses was big enough himself that he could smite them and cast giants out of their own land.  (Joshua 13:12)  “All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.”]

When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan had over 400 years to plant his “mine field” of Nephilim!6

[DTW note:  Again he is surmising and reading into the scripture what is NOT THERE.

  • Genesis 15:13;  13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years

All this means is that the Israelites are going a land that belongs to them, but they will for 400 hundred years have to serve the current inhabitants of the land.  So they will be a stranger in their own land.  No where does it say anything about Nephilim.]

When Moses sent his twelve spies to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land.7 (The term used was Nephilim.) Their fear of those terrifying creatures resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years.

[DTW note:   No the term Nephilim was NOT USED.  My goodness.  Lets have a look at the verse.

Below we are looking at the KJV 1611 translation and not some other funky version like Chuck Misslers Blue letter bible which puts in words that should not be there.

  • Numbers 13:33  “And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

The name Anak is derived from the son of Arba who was a great man among the Arabians (Jos 15:14) who possibly got his title because he used to wear a chain or splendid collar around his neck.    The word “giant” here in the above scripture actually refers to STATURE ( See Genesis 6:4).  The Anakims were more than likely a very distinguished family, or a chosen group of warriors, selected for their extraordinary size.

When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites.  “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.]

When Joshua and the nation Israel later entered the land of Canaan, they were instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of certain tribes.8 That strikes us as disturbingly severe. It would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there again was a “gene pool problem.”   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No, it’s not a ‘gene pool problem’, but a ‘wickedness of mankind problem‘.  The Canaanites were idolaters of the worst kind, enslaved to the most horrible sins.  God had enough; that the righteous judgment of God might sweep them away by the sword, this included famines and pestilences. There was however mercy shown, that while judgment was being employed by sword as punishment against one place, time was afforded for others at other places to repent.  Do you think God would offer demonic offspring time to repent? A gene-pool that has ‘lost it’s soul‘ through demonic intercourse time to repent?   No.  Because this gene pool/demonic offspring story is a load of nonsense. ]

These Rephaim, Nephilim, and others seem to have been established as an advance guard to obstruct Israel’s possession of the Promised Land. Was this also a stratagem of Satan?   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No Chuck Missler, you have an active imagination.  No demonic beings, no obstruction, just wicked people that had the opportunity to repent, other wise God would smite them down with the sword, which he did because of their wicked ways.]

The Days of Noah

Perhaps the most direct prophetic reference involving these things was the peculiar warning of our Lord Jesus Himself:  And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.   [Emphasis added]

Luke 17:26

What does that mean? He also warned:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.    [Emphasis added]

Luke 21:25,26 (emphasis added)

(The late Walter Martin loved to include a “flying saucer” gesture with his hand when quoting this verse!)

Is it possible that the UFOs – and their occupants – are part of an end-time scenario?

[DTW note:  Lets have a look at that verse properly shall we.

  • Luke 21:25-26 – Amplified Bible (AMP)  25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,   26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

Chuck Missler mis-reads the verse.  If we look at the Amplified bible it helps us explain it better. Men are fearful and apprehensive and their expectation is dread because they do not know what kinds of things going to come onto the world.  And ‘things’ in this verse is not ‘aliens or demons’.  There is a semicolon in the verse, and after this semicolon it tells us these things are.  The powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.]

The Miry Clay of Daniel 2

The famous dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel Chapter 2 appears to lay out all of Gentile history until God ultimately intervenes and sets up His own kingdom.

The various metals which make up the image in the dream are well known to serious students of prophecy.9> Even our common expression, “the idol has feet of clay,” comes to us from this classic passage.

But what is represented by the “miry clay” in this image? It seems to be strangely mixed-but not completely-with the iron in the dream. The term “miry clay” refers to clay made from dust,10 a Biblical idiom which suggests death.11 )

When Daniel interprets this for us he makes an especially provocative allusion in verse 43:

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.    [Emphasis added]

Daniel 2:43

As he switches to a personal pronoun, they, “shall mingle themselves with the seed of men…”  This is extremely suggestive when viewed in light of the warning of our Lord in Luke 17:26, ostensibly directing us to look more closely at Genesis 6.

Just what (or who) are “mingling with the seed of men?” These would seem to refer to some beings who are not the seed of men themselves!

Could this be a hint of a return to the mischief of Genesis 6? It staggers the mind to consider the potential significance of Daniel’s passage and its implications for the future global governance.

Are these “aliens” so prolific that they constitute a political constituency?

Will there be UFO incidents as part of a carefully orchestrated program to lead us toward a political agenda? Or has it started already? Are the UFOs, and the increasingly widespread abductions, part of the preparations for this scenario?

[DTW note:  No Mr Missler.  Again you twist scripture to suit your own purposes.  Let’s look at this verse properly shall we…

  • Daniel 2:43  Amplified Bible (AMP)  43 And as you saw the iron mixed with miry and earthen clay, so they shall mingle themselves in the seed of men [in marriage bonds]; but they will not hold together [for two such elements or ideologies can never harmonize], even as iron does not mingle itself with clay.

The last re-establishment of the Roman Empire is described as iron mixed with miry clay, which is nothing but brittle pottery.  This speaks of the attempted UNION between imperialism and democracy.  In the end this Roman Empire so easily shattered when Jesus Christ returns.]

UFO Abductions?

There seems to be a growing concern within the psychiatric community from the strange (and far too frequent) reports from people who claim to have been “abducted” by the occupants of UFOs. These reports are too bizarre to accept, and yet too frequent-and consistent-to ignore. What is particularly disturbing is the estimate from some national polls that as much as 3% of the population may be involved!

Perhaps the most well-known researcher in this area is Dr. John E. Mack, who is professor of psychiatry at The Cambridge Hospital, Harvard Medical School. A contributor to over 150 articles in professional (peer-reviewed) journals and a former Pulitzer Prize winner, he certainly appears to have impressive credentials.

He has been involved in almost a hundred of these cases personally, and has shocked the professional community by declaring that he believes these beings may be real and that they appear to have an agenda to develop a hybrid race!12

At a professional conference on abductions at M.I.T., Dr. Mack asked the provocative question, “If what these abductees are saying is happening to them isn’t happening, then what is?”13

Could all this involve a return to the strange events of “the Days of Noah?”

[DTW note:  Demons exist and people who have had these abduction experiences have experienced, just that, an altered state of consciousness where they have come face to face with demonic entities who create a reality for them that seems so real.  The exact same can be said of someone who experiences a ‘trip to heaven’, they see, touch, taste and smell ‘heaven or hell’ but it’s not real.]

Can A Christian Be “Abducted?”

In our publication, The Return of the Nephilim, I ventured the opinion, based on demonology considerations, that a Christian cannot be abducted. In response, I have received several letters of rebuttal, and also an interesting phone call from a senior executive at Universal Studios who apparently has extensive background in this area.

He indicated that he had participated with Dr. John Mack in some of his sessions, as well as with other researchers, and declared that I was wrong. He suggested that I investigate the Andreasson affair.

The Andreasson case involved a spirit-filled Christian; however, the reports indicate that she accepted an invitation to participate.14 It still appears to me that a Christian cannot be abducted unwillingly.

This opens up the entire subject of demonology and is beyond our scope here. (Our book does include a “Checklist for Potential Abductees” for those who are concerned with this issue.)   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  NEVER.  A genuine Born Again Christian will NEVER be abducted, EVER.  Chuck Missler’s theology leaves little to be desired as he is a Dominionist, so I would not for one second believe him when he says the person in The Andreasson case was a genuine believer.]

Dr. Mark Eastman and I have just published a new book, “Alien Encounters.”

Which attempts to explore the Biblical implications of the increasing reports of UFOs and their occupants, and their potential prophetic significance.

It will prove to be the most controversial thing we have done and we truly request your prayers!  [Emphasis added]

source: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/22/


Jacob Prasch does not like to be questioned and he attacks in the most brutal of manner.  Where as I question a person’s doctrine, Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries (who support him) go for the jugular vein, attack you personally and threaten you.

Please read the following articles where I question Preasch doctrine, please read the comments BY Jacob Pracsh himself:  Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way,  Jacob Prasch the Railer,  Moriel Ministries and MIDRASHJacob Prasch – But By The Grace of God [those Calvinists] . . . Tell The Truth!


NOTES

  1.  Genesis 14:5; 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-12, 22.
  2. Deuteronomy 3:11, 13; Joshua 12:4;13:12.
  3. Joshua 14:15; 15:13; 21:11.
  4. 1 Samuel 17:4ff.
  5. 2 Samuel 21:16-22.
  6. Genesis 15:13-21.
  7. Numbers 13:33.
  8. 8. Joshua 6:21; 9:24; 10:28, 39; 11:24; Deut 2:34; 7:2, 3; 20:16-17; et al. Cf. 1 Sam 15:3, 8, 18, 19; Ps 137:8, 9.
  9. See our briefing package Iron Mixed With Clay (out of print – see An Empire Reborn?)for a complete discussion.
  10. Mire [Aramaic in the text] is from a root meaning to be swept away; thus, dust, dirt.
  11. Rephaim (giants) also translated “dead”: Ps 88:10; Prov 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isa 14:9; 26:14.
  12. John E. Mack, Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens, Ballantine Books, NY, 1994, p.411.
  13. C.D.B. Bryan, Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind: Alien Abduction, UFOs, and the Conference at M.I.T., Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1995, p.4.
  14. Jim Marrs, Alien Agenda, HarperCollins Publishers, New York, p.213-218.



Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

195 Responses

  1. John chingford says:

    Well done Debs.

    I very briefly wrote something about JP’s webpage on his Nephilim beliefs on my blog. It is good that you have done a full critique on this false teaching.

    I wrote (towards the bottom of my article on link:

    http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/are-these-wordsactions-of-true-man-of.html

    “Taken from: [removed]

    Please note the statement made by Jacob in the third paragraph within the image:

    “The Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.”

    This is what the BIBLE (not Jacob) says in Gen 6:7:

    “So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” and again in verse 13:

    “So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.”

    The Bible then goes on to give a very clear account how everyone and everything was destroyed by the flood except those in the ark. The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!

    How can you trust Jacob to be a man who speaks truth when he adds to the Bible and fabricates stories in order to prove his own theology?”

    JP implies that the Nephilim survived the flood. Maybe he has a convenenient midrash interpretation which proves this???? JP always pulls up a “midrash” method of teaching out of the bag everytime he wants to persuade us that his (and only his) interpretation is correct. He knows that we cannot dispute the “midrash” method of interpretation as we do not know it well enough. That gives him licence to tell us that we have to trust his interpretation. Sorry JP, more and more you are proving yourself to be a WOLF

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    This is what the BIBLE (not Jacob) says in Gen 6:7:

    “So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” and again in verse 13:

    “So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.”

    The Bible then goes on to give a very clear account how everyone and everything was destroyed by the flood except those in the ark.

    The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!

    “Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Lend me your ears! Jacob Prasch; The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!” says Deborah with loud speaker

  3. Angela says:

    I believe that all Alien encounters and channelings are all demonic activity. My husband and inlaws are heavily into the “New Age” channelers, so I see the deception first hand. I pray constantly for them. I have read what these channelers have on their blogs, the Demons LOVE Obama. They say that he is pretending to be a bad guy, just until all of the mass arrests will happen. And the advice that these demons give is,”be still, meditate, and be positive and only think of love. It drives me crazy!!!!!
    Angela

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Angela

    I totally agree with you.

  5. TruthfulConversation says:

    Angela, I am a bit confused about what you said, you said that Obama is just pretending to be a BAD guy? I would have thought that he was pretending to be a GOOD guy?

  6. Martin Horan says:

    I’m a bit confused about that one also, TruthfulConversation.
    Bad often masquerades as good [2 Cor 11:14-15] but why would good want to masquerade as bad when bad is the antithesis of good?
    Perhaps Angela meant to type that “he is pretending to be a good guy”. I’ve occasionally typed the wrong word when I meant something else. It happens all the time in journalism and is known as eyeskip.
    Anyway, thanks for including the above, Debs. Excellent as usual!
    I never could see how Nephilim could be part demon and part human, especially in the statements of luke 20:35-36. Those Scriptures are pretty straightforward to me.
    I remember hearing a theory of what caused Satan to rebel against God. It’s only a theory but it’s interesting as a supposition–unless you try to make a theology of it! But it went like this:
    Satan had been informed that God had planned to make humans with an even greater potential than angels. They had the power to do something he and the angels could not do–reproduce themselves. So, in his jealousy–the result of pride–he rebelled against God and hates mankind and has continued to deceive it to its eternal destruction.
    Whatever… We do know that he loathes mankind and has tried to destroy humans, eternally, from mankind’s very beginning in Eden. We can be sure that if he and his demons had the power to impregnate women, they would have done so from the outset to create many hybrids.
    That would really have put the scuppers on God’s plan to redeem mankind–because, then, much of humanity would be part unredeemed demons. Forget even the ancestry of the Messiah being affected, even if God would see to Christ’s ancestors all being purely human, Satan still would have created plenty of humans impossible to receive redemption. Yet Scripture makes it plain–though Calvinists beg to differ–that God does not will that any should perish [2 Peter 3:9].
    As God would have known Satan planned that long before he did, and that there would be those incapable of receiving redemption, why then would God made angels with male sex organs? Presuming He did (though He did NOT!) He could only have done so logically for that purpose alone: Satan creating hybrids. Remember, had it happened, God would have known it was going to happen.
    If the descendents of these hybrids were around on the earth prior to Peter’s day, Peter ought not to have written the above Scripture as it then would already have been too late. God would have ordained it that that all of their offspring were going to be damned and there was nothing that could be done about it. But we know that Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write that Scripture [2 Tim 3:16]. So we know that it is not God’s will that any should perish and we know that Satan does not have sexual organs any more than any other angel has, whether they be fallen or with God in heaven.
    Of course, we know this stuff is fantasy pure and simple. Either that or God would be a greater Calvinist than Calvin!

  7. Truthful Conversation says:

    Yes agreed Martin, I am sure it was a typo, but as I have not seen other comments from Angela, I thought I would ask her.

    I am liking that description you use..eyeskip! I hate it when I spell something incorrectly, not because I cannot spell correctly, but because it is a typo! I am very OCD about spelling and grammar, so it makes me mad when I do it! LOL

    I read and re-read my comments to check for error, so when I ‘eyeskip’ it truly frustrates me.

  8. Michael says:

    Excellent article on this subject. I struggled to understand the term “Sons of God” however the bible does state that theory of angels and humans having offspring, therefore it is a false doctrine. I have wondered about Chuck Missler ministry, he was being promoted by a Calvary Chapel I use to attend. Can you tell me more about the Calvary Chapel movement?

  9. misselis says:

    [deleted – sorry for deleting your commenting, I am in no mood for Prasch supporters – goodbye]

  10. Leigh says:

    Of course you are going to delete comments, you are a coward, God forbid someone challenge you. You sure can dish it out but you can’t take the heat!

  11. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Leigh

    >> Of course you are going to delete comments, you are a coward, God forbid someone challenge you. You sure can dish it out but you can’t take the heat!

    No, I want to people to see what the so called Christian spirit that ooooozzzeeessss out of followers of Jacob Prasch.

  12. Leigh says:

    [delete]

  13. Michael says:

    [delete – You insult me by saying I don not show love because I delete comments, well, understand this, deleting a comment does not mean I hate you, it only means I am ‘deleting your comment’.]

  14. Michael says:

    I didn’t say you don’t show love by deleting comments. It’s the tone of your responses in green as well as the tone of the deletions which I take issue with. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what is meant, but the tone sounds sarcastic and disrespectful among other things to me. I don’t recall exactly what I wrote, but I apologize if I was out of line. I didn’t mean to insult you but rather to challenge you to examine the nature of your responses.

    From my perspective, the entire point of this blog seems to be to mention one singular point of view, and any comments which don’t fall in line are deleted. I made many points that I was hoping would be addressed and that we could have a dialogue on the issue.

  15. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Michael

    You get a TONE from words on a screen? That’s incredible. You must teach me how to hear tones. Because that TONE is generated in your head by your feelings! Not my feelings.

    And yes this blog mentions one point of view, one biblical point of view. And no, we don’t do Emergent dialogue. The aim of this blog is to strand up for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not bow down to other gods.

  16. Marion says:

    Michael – you can find more information about Chuck Missler by placing his name in the search bar on Deb’s site here, above.

    You also requested information about Calvary Chapels. They have been extensively exposed on these 3 sites:

    [DTW note: BEWARE OF THIS WEBSITE]

    http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/ [DTW note: BEWARE OF THIS WEBSITE]

    http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/

    There is lots of information on all these sites, if you google Calvary Chapel and use their names, it might narrow it down for you. There is much good material to be found there. BUT use discernment whenever you read. In many good sites you can find some error; “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” 1 Cor. 13:12-13).

    Disclaimer: Use of any site/link is not an endorsement of any person, group, “ministry” or philosophy.

  17. Michael says:

    [delete – sorry, we here stand for the Gospel of Jesus Christ – if you don’t like it, please go elsewhere.]

  18. James says:

    Hi Deborah,

    This is a quote from you that I lifted from the above article,

    Jacob Prasch does not like to be questioned and he attacks in the most brutal of manner. Where as I question someone’s doctrine, Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries (who support him) go for the jugular vein and threaten you.

    I am just curious if you follow this same practice by deleting comments from others on this comment string?

    I also noticed as you have pointed out that Prasch and Missler have taken liberties with Biblical passages, I believe you have as well, ie:

    When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites. “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.

    How would you know they “exaggerated the physical strength…” I am not getting that from the Biblical verse you used, is there another verse that points this out?

  19. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    James

    Deleting comments (because the comment is generally attacking me) is NOT attacking people in the most brutal manner – what is so difficult to understand about that.

    >> I also noticed as you have pointed out that Prasch and Missler have taken liberties with Biblical passages, I believe you have as well, ie:

    When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites. “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.

    How would you know they “exaggerated the physical strength…” I am not getting that from the Biblical verse you used, is there another verse that points this out?

    Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown
    Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871) believes so as well that is it a FIGURE OF SPEECH.

    Isaiah also uses this same figure of speech / mannerism.

    Isaiah 40:21-22
    21 ​​​​​​​Do you not know? ​​​​​​Do you not hear? ​​​​​​Has it not been told to you since the very beginning? ​​​​​​Have you not understood from the time the earth’s foundations were made? 22 ​​​​​​​He is the one who sits on the earth’s horizon; ​​​​​​its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him. ​​​​​​He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain, ​​​​​​and spreads it out like a pitched tent.

  20. shane says:

    Hello, this is a great site by the way! I am not entrenched on my beliefs of the subject because the Holy Spirit is always showing me new things and through walking with my Lord and savior Jesus Christ the veil gets lifted more and more everyday. I pray we all due our due diligence on studying the Word and allowing its author to reveal its mysteries to us. Food for thought……..

    1. The adversary had just received a judgment that there would be enmity( to be an enemy,hatred,hostility) between the woman’s seed (Jesus Christ) and the seed of the serpent and that his(serpent) head would be crushed by the woman’s seed. Genesis 3:15 simply states that the serpent has seed, offspring or descendants!
    a) Who or what is this offspring of the serpent and isn’t it logical to say that the serpents seed can manifest in the flesh?
    b) Don’t you think satan in his vanity and pride think he could do something about changing his predicament?

    2. We all know Noah was a righteous man but in Genesis 6:9 we learn that he was also perfect in his generations(KJV). The Hebrew word for perfect could be rendered without blemish. It is also the same word that describes the sacrificial animal( EX 12:5,LEV 1:3) that were to be offered up the Lord.
    a) Why does the Lord mention purity in his generations or ancestry if it weren’t important?

    My intention is not to build any doctrine but to ask questions. Thank you for the consideration and remember that iron sharpens iron. Praise Jesus our coming king!!!!!

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Shame

    1. The adversary had just received a judgment that there would be enmity( to be an enemy,hatred,hostility) between the woman’s seed (Jesus Christ) and the seed of the serpent and that his(serpent) head would be crushed by the woman’s seed. Genesis 3:15 simply states that the serpent has seed, offspring or descendants!
    a) Who or what is this offspring of the serpent and isn’t it logical to say that the serpents seed can manifest in the flesh?
    b) Don’t you think satan in his vanity and pride think he could do something about changing his predicament?

    2. We all know Noah was a righteous man but in Genesis 6:9 we learn that he was also perfect in his generations(KJV). The Hebrew word for perfect could be rendered without blemish. It is also the same word that describes the sacrificial animal( EX 12:5,LEV 1:3) that were to be offered up the Lord.
    a) Why does the Lord mention purity in his generations or ancestry if it weren’t important?

    1) Serpent Seed teaching is a false doctrine all on it’s on and has nothing to do with the Nephilim. Satan did not have sexual relations with Eve.

    2) Noah was a type of ‘Christ’ his whole story foreshadows the coming of Jesus Christ – Noah ‘being without blemish’ has got nothing to do with godly genepool vs a demonic genepool.

  22. Carolyn says:

    Debs, I admit to having studied this area mostly from the bias of the teaching on angels leaving their first estate, giants being the product of an uncommon union in a Satanic attempt to corrupt the image of God in man. Frankly, I see it that way but I’ve been wrong once before in my life….. soooooooo, it’s possible that there might be a second time….

    I regard the whole thing as in the realm of speculation and I really dislike the idea of how far they are taking this study…away from Scriptural boundaries into forbidden areas. I understand they are for the reason of research, but focusing our attention on alien abductions and how portals are generated gives me the creeps. I think we can use a bit of insight into secret societies and the use of the occult for the purpose of comparing error with truth, and exposing the wickedness of these teachings but to write books on the stuff, goes beyond creepy.

    The study of Scripture is a full time occupation for believers. Do we really have time to go beyond the boundaries of what is written into areas that have nothing to do with our walk with the Lord? One has to question the motives of such spiritual meanderings.

  23. Colin Ford says:

    Deborah!
    I should mention that Arthur Pink was a five point TULIP Calvinist!
    I would remind you that many of your contributors call such teachings blasphemous.
    That said, I would certainly agree with you that Mr Pink as a gifted Bible expositor, I believe that he was raised in Dispensational circles, so I wouldn’t recommend his ‘Redeemer’s Return’, I believe that it inspired the ‘Left Behind’ series!

  24. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Colin

    Thanks for confirming info regarding Arthur Pink. I would not recommend people read ANYTHING by him.

  25. Carolyn says:

    Debs…I will take some time to research this side of the Genesis 6 paradigm. For some reason, I ended up in the camp of the Nephillum-ites on my journey and there I have pitched my tent. So maybe it’s time for me to study the other side of the coin. Be patient….God isn’t finished with me yet.

    I think the danger that lurks in this camp is the concentration on evil rather than godliness. Sensationalism and the Supernatural-ism sells books. And Occult teachings are like a votex…once you enter, you may never return. This is the danger that Scripture warns about and why the occult practices are forbidden.

    Most, even in the camp of the Nephilium-ites, would agree with the need to emphasize God’s Word in eschatology. There are some very influential theologians, however, that have infiltrated that camp and have ended up infecting the whole batch with occult interests and false teaching. They are teaching on the the deeper secrets of Satan without comprehending the risks, to themselves but especially to new believers. Being deceived and deceiving….

  26. Redeemed says:

    Carolyn wrote:

    Debs, I admit to having studied this area mostly from the bias of the teaching on angels leaving their first estate, giants being the product of an uncommon union in a Satanic attempt to corrupt the image of God in man. Frankly, I see it that way but I’ve been wrong once before in my life….. soooooooo, it’s possible that there might be a second time….
    I regard the whole thing as in the realm of speculation and I really dislike the idea of how far they are taking this study…away from Scriptural boundaries into forbidden areas. I understand they are for the reason of research, but focusing our attention on alien abductions and how portals are generated gives me the creeps. I think we can use a bit of insight into secret societies and the use of the occult for the purpose of comparing error with truth, and exposing the wickedness of these teachings but to write books on the stuff, goes beyond creepy.
    The study of Scripture is a full time occupation for believers. Do we really have time to go beyond the boundaries of what is written into areas that have nothing to do with our walk with the Lord? One has to question the motives of such spiritual meanderings.

    I agree! There are certain mysteries that will not be revealed to us now and we should be concentrating on things that the Lord DID make clear about the Gospel and salvation and the end times. That should give us a full plate!

  27. Test all things says:

    As a note on your understanding of hebrew text, Numbers 13:33 has the word Nephalim twice which is Fallen ones. Same as used in Genesis. It doesn’t mean distinguished. Some bible translators use distinguished, but this is a poor mistranslation. It helps to know the language. It’s important when building a case to have all of the facts.

  28. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Test all things

    Nonsense. “Fallen Onces” is not used, “Giants” is used. And if you READ the verse BEFORE verse 33 you will see something quite interesting… (taken from the KJV 1611)

    Numbers 13:32-33 (KJV 1611)
    32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. 33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

    You say TEST all things, but you do not. You can’t read 1 verse. You READ all verses, not just those mentioned above either. I have explained this in the article.

    Regading language…the word Giant here comes from the Hebrew word which refers here to stature.

  29. Carolyn says:

    Redeemed and All:

    Here’s what I take from the above post. We fly with our assumptions far too easily. Without extra biblical input, Genesis 6 and Jude 6 gives us some very scant information about that period. I don’t understand what went on back there. I also see that I have made connections by way of extra biblical texts which could transition into error if I don’t stay biblically grounded. And I agree that it was for wickedness that God judged both Noah’s generation and Sodom and Gomorrah. Wickedness on every level is pervasive.

    I have had a few times when I believe God disciplined me to keep me out of trouble. Because my Biblical framework of belief in him was lacking in my youth, I trespassed in territories I should not have. For instance, when I was doing a book report on UFOs. I was researching diligently. One night an immense round, UFO, flashing lights and all, (I can still picture it) landed in the yard outside my bedroom window. I felt the presence of evil and the sight was so vivid and frightening, as I awoke, I had to pull back the curtains and look out the window to make sure it wasn’t there. After reassuring myself that nothing was there, I crawled back under the covers with only my eyes showing and laid still while listening to my heart pounding.

    In this case, I believe God’s hand of protection was on me and he allowed such an experience to teach me that I was dealing with demons, not extra terrestrials. I dropped the research and chose a different topic. Because of this experience, I have never intentionally trespassed into supernatural realms, even for research purposes. I do see things in the occasional documentary, or news items, etc. But I do not crawl around in Satan’s domain, investigating areas that are forbidden to the Christian. We just do not need to know some things.

    The Nephillum teaching remains in the realm of speculation. It will stay there for me. I won’t be pursuing any doctrines based on those assumptions. And that’s where I am right now. I haven’t had much to do with Chuck Missler or Jacob Prasch as I am mostly on Gary Stearman’s site. And I’m not interested in reading their books, especially after the reactions I have witnessed here.

    On Gary’s site, I haven’t seen much promotion of these two, probably because they promote themselves well enough. I may not agree with Gary on everything, but I do respect him. He presents the gospel and has his Bible open when giving his daily updates on news items. It’s up to the individual to take what is said and study it out for himself. We are presented with food for thought by many individuals that he interviews on his show. Now I cannot say the same thing for some who seem to be supernatural addicts, promoting things from a worldview other than the Bible and sprinkling their quantum leaps with Scripture out of context. Same as New Agers do.

    As Christ continues to say to us…”beware!”

  30. Carolyn says:

    Re my previous post….Stronger terms needed here. I am seeing the diabolical nature of the Nephillum teaching and the Shadows of the Beast! It’s giving licence to the study of the occult so that we can recognize the Anti-Christ. But why would we have to recognize him when we aren’t looking for him? We are looking for Christ!

    Yes…JP and Missler are among many who are promoting a wrong focus that is diverting attention away from the positive expectation of Christ’s coming and putting it on the shadowy realms of darkness. I get it. My stronger terms are “Burn the books! Read the Bible!”

    And I was also thinking that Gary Stearman is pre-trib and that’s why he’s not promoting JP and Missler. (Lightbulb moment)

    Tom Horn is another big name that has us popping our heads through portals and peeping through windows of darkness. What are we doing in this occult world???? Research? Where will we end up? That’s the concern.

    Anyhow…I’m doing some thinking and a lot of sifting.

  31. Carolyn says:

    Update: Was just reading: http://herescope.blogspot.ca/2012/07/the-serpent-seed-nephilim.html

    Here is an excerpt:

    “This Manifested Sons of God false teaching that the “church as the incarnation of God, will manifest Christ on earth” means that the church becomes Christ—takes the place of Christ upon the earth. If so, then there would then be no purpose for Christ to return. The church would wield the same power, sovereignty and authority on earth as the Lord Jesus Christ, in His physical absence. This blasphemous doctrine becomes important as we continue to examine the “Serpent Seed” heresy. And it may explain why the focus has shifted to the return of the Nephilim instead of the return of Jesus Christ.”

    I’m trying to see where I fit into this “giant” (pardon the pun) paradigm.

    The Serpent Seed heresy, is of course, just that, heresy…ridiculous heresy!!!

    The Nephillum are giants. Everyone agrees on that.

    But who are the giants?

    Apparently, I am not alone as I have been caught up in this theory of fallen angel speculation. I was going with the Pre-millenial paradigm but even in that area, there has arisen a confusing spectrum of disagreement, according to this article by Gaylene Goodroad. So now we appear to have at the next prophecy conference in Colorado Springs a mixture of everything from Dominionism to Serpent Seed doctrine. I thought I was confused before.

    Actually, I’m not confused. I still believe in Premillenium, Pretribulation doctrine. And the rest of the contrived doctrines I will leave entangled in the spidery webs they came from ie. William Branham, Aimee Semple McPherson, Tom Horn and Chuck Missler, etc. For myself, I will continue to read and believe the Word.

    Stay safe, everyone…Christ is coming soon. Of that we are sure.
    Ephesians 4:14
    That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    **I’m not saying that everyone in the prophecy camp is wrong. But there is such a mixture among them, that we must test the spirits and be discerning.

  32. Carolyn says:

    This excerpt is found in the concluding thoughts of an expanded commentary by Gaylene Goodroad on the Serpent Seed. It is a commentary on Genesis 3:14,15 by Matthew Henry and brings us back down to earth. When I first began to look at the other side of Genesis 6…as in the Days of Noah, I thought it was just one little isolated doctrine of little import on the whole of eschatology. I’m seeing instead, that it is a pervasive leaven. It’s important to see where this doctrine ends up, not just where it begins….

    http://apprising.org/2012/07/23/the-serpent-seed-the-nephilim/

    The truth:

    “Note these precious truths from Genesis 3:15 explained by esteemed Bible commentator Matthew Henry centuries ago—truths betrayed and forsaken by those preaching the “Serpent Seed” heresy. Genesis 3:14-15 is all about JESUS, our Redeemer!

    3:14, 15 God passes sentence; and he begins where the sin began, with the serpent. The devil’s instruments must share in the devil’s punishments. Under the cover of the serpent, the devil is sentenced to be degraded and accursed of God; detested and abhorred of all mankind: also to be destroyed and ruined at last by the great Redeemer, signified by the breaking of his head. War is proclaimed between the Seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. It is the fruit of this enmity, that there is a continual warfare between grace and corruption, in the hearts of God’s people. Satan, by their corruptions, buffets them, sifts them, and seeks to devour them. Heaven and hell can never be reconciled, nor light and darkness; no more can Satan and a sanctified soul. Also, there is a continual struggle between the wicked and the godly in this world. A gracious promise is here made of Christ, as the Deliverer of fallen man from the power of Satan.Here was the dawn of the gospel day: no sooner was the wound given, than the remedy was provided and revealed. This gracious revelation of a Saviour came unasked, and unlooked for. Without a revelation of mercy, giving some hope of forgiveness, the convinced sinner would sink into despair, and be hardened. By faith in this promise, our first parents, and the patriarchs before the flood, were justified and saved. Notice is given concerning Christ.1. His incarnation, or coming in the flesh. It speaks great encouragement to sinners, that their Saviour is the Seed of the woman, bone of our bone, Heb 2:11,14.
    2. His sufferings and death; pointed at in Satan’s bruising his heel, that is, his human nature. And Christ’s sufferings are continued in the sufferings of the saints for his name. The devil tempts them, persecutes and slays them; and so bruises the heel of Christ, who is afflicted in their afflictions. But while the heel is bruised on earth, the Head is in heaven.
    3. His victory over Satan thereby. Christ baffled Satan’s temptations, rescued souls out of his hands. By his death he gave a fatal blow to the devil’s kingdom, a wound to the head of this serpent that cannot be healed. As the gospel gains ground, Satan falls.[17] [bold added]

    “…to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.”
    ~ Acts 26:18”

    Ancient Chinese Proverb by Carolyn says: Take the Word seriously…or you will be seriously “taken” for a ride….

  33. Carolyn says:

    The thing that scares me about Jacob Prasch more than even the Nephillum teaching is the Hebrew Roots teaching. Now there is a diabolical evil that has come rolling into the Christian camp like a 100 pound bowling ball that takes everything out in its pathetic distortion of truth.

    http://www.SeekGod.ca/hr/hrfaqs.htm#hebraic

  34. shane says:

    Carolyn,
    What is so wrong with Hebrew roots? I myself am a gentile having been grafted (wild branch)into the natural branch (Romans 11). We are one in Jesus. Great blessings were poured out onto the early church because jew and gentile were in one accord. For myself the revelation of the coming rapture and second coming is hidden in plain sight when one studies the jewish wedding! The messianic churches do not require gentiles to become jews. They are jews who love Jesus ( Yeshua) as their messiah and welcome all who would like to worship in their cultural context. Do not let one bad apple spoil the bunch. May Jesus continually bless you with love and revelation of His will and His name be glorified in all the earth!!!!

  35. Redeemed says:

    Shane, one concern I have about the Messianic fellowships that I know of is that they hold to Sabbath worship. This sets them apart from the greater Body of Christ and is clinging to the Law.

    Also, there is a much attention to Jewish tradition and some hold to Torah Law. Everything has to have a Jewish flavor.

    Yes, we can see the fulfillment of prophecy and how Jesus is seen throughout the Old Testament and the Jewish wedding is a wonderful picture of the Lord’s return for His Bride.

    But the Jewish Roots movement overemphasizes and thereby sets themselves apart from the Body of Christ by having their own special churches.
    This is the very thing that Paul took Peter to task over – separation between Jew and Gentile. Jesus said that we are to be one Body. Jewish Roots carves out their own little niche.

    I have personally seen people get off into some very unsound teaching through people in this type of movement.

  36. Carolyn says:

    @ Shane: re comment #34. Great blessings were poured out onto the early church because Christ died for their sins and there was now no difference between Jew and Gentile. They were all one in Christ.

    The Hebrew Roots are trying to bring Gentiles into bondage to Jewish culture, language and law.

    You said: “The messianic churches do not require gentiles to become jews.” And I say that the moon is made of blue cheese, the Mormon Jesus didn’t come from the planet Kolob, Roman Catholics do not revere Mary and Adventists don’t follow the teachings of Ellen G. White.

    If you think there isn’t more to Hebrew Roots movements than understanding a little bit of their culture such as the Jewish Wedding, you are either hiding something or they are….because like every other cult, they begin with a bit of truth and lead you into falsehood. I was in SDA(Seventh Day Adventist) for a while and their opening statement was “salvation is faith in Christ by grace….but” They had me at “grace” and I missed the “but”. Then they proceeded to entangle me in the law.

    There is a lot out there to help you understand what you are getting yourself into if you are a serious contender for the faith once for all delivered. If you simply want to follow a nice little Messianic group…then I can’t help you. Keeping in mind that there are many variations of the movement, they do have some common features which you will find covered in this article.

    Excerpt from: http://www.angelfire.com/la/jlush/dangersHRM.html

    Titus 1:14 says not to give heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men, for those that do have turned from the truth.

    I believe the Hebrew Roots organizations have become the modern equivalent of the Judaisers who followed the Apostle Paul from city to city, spying on the NT believers’ liberty in Christ and striving to pervert the Gospel and cause confusion among the Early Christians. When these Judaisers sought to draw the Christians of the Galatian church back under the Judaic Religious System, Paul warned the Galatian church to not give credence to their arguments for they were perverting the Gospel of Christ.

    Instead of Christ alone, the HRM and Messianic Jewish Movement over-balance into the religion that they have never really left! They cannot grasp that ALL is fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not only that, but they want the Christians to embrace the O.T. Jewish religious beliefs, ordinances, and traditions that were necessary under the Law as well!

    *******

    And from: http://www.raptureready.com/rap40f.html

    this excerpt: Masquerading in many cases as Messianic Jews, the Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM) groups are too many to count. I have provided links below to many that I have come across. They seem to be gaining momentum and crawling out of the woodwork, and I can only speculate who is kicking their proverbial anthill.

    Hyper-Hebrew groups vary like snowflakes when it comes to their beliefs and doctrines, but I have noticed a theme to which they, for the most part, adhere.”

    As well, he has linked to some of the major HRM cults.

    Attention to detail is necessary if you want to remain rooted in the Truth. There’s always someone looking to draw disciples after themselves and away from Christ. There is one Truth and many variations of the Lie.

  37. Mark Purchase says:

    The article above makes interesting reading.

    Missler has just moved to my country to live. Hope one day to meet him. As I have some views myself about the sexy angels nonsense as well –

  38. Redeemed says:

    Mark Purchase wrote:

    The article above makes interesting reading.
    Missler has just moved to my country to live. Hope one day to meet him. As I have some views myself about the sexy angels nonsense as well –

    Why in the world would you want to meet Mr. Missler? Unless you are a fan of his.

  39. Larry H says:

    Deborah, I am sorry if I offended you, but I just had to let you know how your blog affected to me. I am sure you are a devoted Christian, and would do anything to serve the Lord Jesus Christ. I know you are trying to do the right thing. If we are trying to help others we need to be very humble at how we go about it. I know I wasn’t humble in addressing you earlier, forgive me. I was just trying to let you see another side of the issue. Jesus was very tender toward those without knowledge, but He was sometimes very harsh with those who should have known. None of us know exactly what God has laid out in specific situations, that is why we live a life of faith and love toward others and ourselves. We are going to make mistakes, but we are still loved. You have a marvelous blog here, an excellent opportunity to lovingly gather brothers and sisters all over the world for reproof and love. Maybe Jacob and Chuck, like the rest of us, make some mistakes in how they react sometimes, but by and large they are trying to promote the love of Christ to anyone and everyone who will listen. I love them both. So maybe Jacob comes off a little strong sometimes, but I am sure he gets beat down plenty by Satan and unbelievers. Let us please not fight among ourselves. Christ gave His Life for us, not so we could fight each other, but so we could love each other and Him. God bless you and what you are trying to do in your heart for Christ, He knows your heart and only He can help us all.

  40. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Larry H

    Thing that gets me is that you judge me through a PC screen, you take my words (add your EMOTIONS to them) and judge my heart. The fact of the matter is this, I love EVERYONE enough to sit here day in and day out and be insulted day in and day out. Chuck and Jacob, don’t make mistakes, preaching a false gospel and being told you are wrong and then carry on doing it is called SINNING.
    When I make a mistake and I am told about it (it happens a few times on this website) I apologise profusely, fix the problem, let people know the truth and so on and so on. The Misslers and Praschs of this world do not do that, they instead attack you in the vilest manner as you try to warn the flock of their FALSE ways. I once did a test, for 5 people I added smiley faces to the comment in the hopes that the person would react differently in hearing the truth to the other 5 people’s comment who never got smiley faces. You know what the outcome was? The exact same, all 10 lambased me for being full of hatred! Why? Because of the MESSAGE! That is why. Not the way I said it, but the Message itself is what got to them. Jesus said His Gospel is Hated and those who preach His Gospel TRUTH will be Hated as well. So I sit here an tolerate the abuse because I know sooner or later someone will come along TRULY SEEKING the Gospel and will hear and they will listen to the Holy Spirit speak to them and understand what this blog is all about.

  41. Redeemed says:

    Larry, thanks for coming back. If this was the first time you have seen this blog, I can understand how you might misunderstand the intent and heart behind it.

    You can have no idea of the slander and abuse that Deborah takes and the utter hatred that comes from people. Most people would have thrown up their hands and given up.

    Please look into Prasch and Missler’s teachings with an open mind. No one ever questions Prasch and Missler has his faithful followers. False teaching needs to be called out no matter who does it because we serve God, not man. If one is genuine, they will welcome being told, but usually it is the opposite and like Deborah says, it doesn’t matter how it is said – it is the message that is rejected.

    The Bible tells us to test the spirits and not enough people are doing that these days and there is little or no accountability.

  42. Kim says:

    Very interesting comments. I am in agreement that the nephilim and serpent seed teachings have so infiltrated Christendom that many cannot see the problem with the teachings. I personally have known friends who no longer care about the plain and simple teachings from the Bible. Or they now believe that one has to access books like Jasher and Enoch to find truth. This is Gnostism pure and simple. This is where I get angry with the Prophecy in the New site with Stearman and Horn. They seem like nice men but are false teachers.

    Carolyn I found your information on UFO’s (#29) very interesting. As a young girl, 16, I saw a UFO while walking down the street at night with a friend. It was a beautiful saucer, spinning. We both looked up and saw it. We looked up again and it was gone. The experience mystified me for many years. Then I learned they are demonic.

    I few things then fell into place. The night before, me and my girlfriend had been playing with a Oiuja board and conjured up a spirit. Scared us silly and we didn’t use it again. But something happened that night. I learned that we gave out an invitation for contact. I think there is a danger in delving too deeply into the occult…and that you open up yourself for deception.

  43. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Thanks Kim!!

  44. Carolyn says:

    Kim…yes, “an invitation for contact”…that’s such a good phrase. Without a doubt, the Ouija Board is a point of contact. We do these things so innocently and if it wasn’t for God’s protection…I have felt evil a few times in my life and for me it has stimulated my pain sensors something like the element on a hot stove. Don’t touch that again!!!!

    My radar is up with Prophecy in the News. I’ve had my guard up for a while now as I find some books/teachings crossing the line into hardcore occult…usually in the name of research, but there’s a bit of “let’s get the popcorn out” and settle back to watch the video production or read the book. Make yourself comfortable.

    Indoctrination is a subtle thing. It is easy to become the frog in the kettle…I share your concern especially for those not rooted in the Scripture; that the thirst for knowledge of supernatural elements, angels, portals, UFOs as well as the forbidden occult knowledge and doctrines of demons could well be creating a desire for other than a love of the truth. These extra biblical sources can end up being channels for deception. The question must be asked, what are we most thirsty for? Living Water or something else? Are we developing an appetite for sensationalism and the perverse?

    Yes, I see this mixture with the occult is diluting the enthusiasm for Just the Word, the Life Giving, Energizing, Thirst Quenching, Sin Exposing, Life Transforming, Hope Giving, Faith Building, Love Generating Truth! That’s the only Alien life form I want to encounter….the alien (me) that’s just passing through…

  45. Carolyn says:

    http://www.lionheartministries.org/calendar_conf_NephilimAgenda.php ok…this is too much…nephilim mounds conferences!!!

    The people that are talking about the Nephilim these days are sensationalizing evil…don’t read anything on these sites…this is just an example of where these extreme teachings are originating…With Randy DeMain, LA Marzulli, and Russ Dizdar taking their audience from extreme prophetic to extreme darkness….

    promotes Patricia King and XP Media/Ministries

    http://www.shatterthedarkness.net/ exposing darkness…to the extreme

    It’s a departure from the faith….and a frightening scenario of the blending of end times prophetic research and NAR.

  46. Denis says:

    The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and unto our children for ever.( kjv)
    we are told that we are the salt of the earth and the light of the world.
    THE WORLD IS WATCHING US.

  47. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Denis

    >> The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and unto our children for ever.( kjv)
    we are told that we are the salt of the earth and the light of the world.
    THE WORLD IS WATCHING US.

    Errrr, what are you speaking about?
    We are currently in an APOSTASY unlike the world has ever seen where the world has turned to a false Christianity, the world is not watching us, GOD IS WATCHING YOU to see which master you chose to follow, a false Christ or Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God.

  48. peter says:

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    This is what the BIBLE (not Jacob) says in Gen 6:7:
    “So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” and again in verse 13:
    “So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.”
    The Bible then goes on to give a very clear account how everyone and everything was destroyed by the flood except those in the ark.
    The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!
    “Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Lend me your ears! Jacob Prasch; The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!” says Deborah with loud speaker

    that may be true, but the wives of Noah’s sons could have carried their seed; how would you explain that they were present even after the flood?

  49. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    peter

    >> that may be true, but the wives of Noah’s sons could have carried their seed; how would you explain that they were present even after the flood?

    No peter, that would mean they were pregnant when they were on the ark and that means that they were not God fearing people. Noak and his family were God fearing people that is why God spared their lives. My goodness read your bible please.

  50. John Chingford says:

    Peter

    Why did God bring the flood on the Earth?

    Genesis 6:4-7 tells us why. Specifically verses 5-7:

    “Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

    In the verses prior it is clear why God needed to destroy them. the Nephilim were a prime example. If God only saved six it was because only these were found righteous in God’s sight and worthy to recommence the repopulation of the earth. Do you really think God would have accepted any woman who carried the perverted seed?

    Yes, we are told that the Nephilim appeared afterwards. Well (as usual) it doesn’t take long for humans (who contain a sinful nature) to spread the sinful nature within their children. Their seed is not the Nephilim seed but simply the Adamic seed of sinful nature which becomes more and more corrupt with every succeeding generation. It was just inevitable that eventually the sin would become so dire again that giants of sin would re-emerge again. Nowhere are we told that “sons of god” came back again. Everything EVERYTHING was destroyed in the flood apart from what was left in the ark. the Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!

  51. S.E.Brown says:

    Carolyn wrote:

    Debs, I admit to having studied this area mostly from the bias of the teaching on angels leaving their first estate, giants being the product of an uncommon union in a Satanic attempt to corrupt the image of God in man. Frankly, I see it that way but I’ve been wrong once before in my life….. soooooooo, it’s possible that there might be a second time….
    I regard the whole thing as in the realm of speculation and I really dislike the idea of how far they are taking this study…away from Scriptural boundaries into forbidden areas. I understand they are for the reason of research, but focusing our attention on alien abductions and how portals are generated gives me the creeps. I think we can use a bit of insight into secret societies and the use of the occult for the purpose of comparing error with truth, and exposing the wickedness of these teachings but to write books on the stuff, goes beyond creepy.
    The study of Scripture is a full time occupation for believers. Do we really have time to go beyond the boundaries of what is written into areas that have nothing to do with our walk with the Lord? One has to question the motives of such spiritual meanderings.

    Carolyn- I find myself in agreement with what you have said here. I’ve always read God’s Word, and taken it at “Face Value”, only doing a deeper study when something truly stirred my spirit to pursue the subject further. There’s a saying about Biblical interpretation that goes something like this: “If (in the WRITTEN WORD)common sense makes sense, we need no further sense.” I agree.

    I’ve ALWAYS believed that the fallen angels, called “watchers”(“sons of God”), TRESPASSED the boundaries God had placed on them, and did indeed take from among human women(“the daughters of men”) WIVES for themselves, and that CHILDREN were born of these unions:

    Gen 6:4 ” There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

    **If THIS^^^ were NOT TRUE, then the Bible would say:”…when the SONS of MEN came in unto the DAUGHTERS of MEN, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”**

    NO! God makes a POINT here, one which captures the attention of any serious student of His Word! HE says that there were GIANTS in those days, and after, because of the union of fallen angels and human woman.
    We also see that not only were these fallen angels wicked and REBELLIOUS against God, but ALSO their “progeny” helped spread this WICKEDNESS throughout the whole known world of humans in Noah’s day, thus God intended to destroy ALL humanity AND the animals!

    These fallen angels were LIMITED in number, and Satan INTENDED to use them to DESTROY the coming Messianic line of humans. Also, I believe that Satan’s original rebellion began the moment he found out that God intended for ALL humans to be “HIGHER than the angels”, and to “RULE over them in time”- he was going to have NONE of that-his PRIDE would NEVER allow it! That’s why he “tricked” Eve and then Adam into giving over the “Title Deed” to planet earth, which God had given to Adam! The “Scroll” with the SEALS that Jesus Christ opens in Revelation Ch.6 IS THAT VERY “Title Deed”!!!!

    I DO BELIEVE that ALL humans (“hybrid” and otherwise) along with ALL the animals, PERISHED in the Great Flood, EXCEPT for Noah,his wife, their 3 sons and their wives, and all of the animals that GOD brought into the Ark for His Salvation, and to “start over” with that one FAITHFUL & OBEDIENT man, Noah, and his family.

    We KNOW from the Book of Jude that these disobedient and wicked “Watcher” fallen angels are NOW being held in “everlasting chains under darkness”:
    Jud 1:6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    They EXISTED,they SINNED, and they HAD WICKED CHILDREN with human woman,and they ARE BEING PUNISHED by God, and we KNOW this, because God tells us so in His Word!

    The OTHER subject:”Satan’s Seed”- There ARE SONS of Satan! The Bible calls them “Sons of Belial”. I do believe that ALL angels have the ability to procreate, and that they are ALL MALE, which means that they can ONLY produce MALE children, since GOD is their Father, and they have NO mother. Their chromosones are totally MALE.

    Now, as to Eve & Satan- I KNOW that they did NOT have sexual relations, because God’s Word tells us that the “SEDUCTION” was purely with WORDS-the Original LIE of Satan that he uses to this day to lead humans to Hell:…”ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”…Man’s PRIDEFUL quest for KNOWLEDGE & the POWER that comes from it is what leads so MANY to perdition, because they THINK they KNOW BETTER than GOD what is “good” for them!

    Furthermore, God’s Word tells us clearly and plainly that Cain and Abel were BOTH of them the OFFSPRING of the union of ADAM and Eve:
    Gen 4:1 ” And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
    Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.”

    When Jesus said that we would be as the angels in Heaven, neither marrying, nor giving in marriage, I personally believe that He meant that those angels in Heaven were OBEDIENT to their Father God, that He NEVER intended for them to procreate, and that it was FORBIDDEN to them to have carnal relations with ANY human being. The Bible never says that they were “GENDERLESS”!

    As to “the return of the Nephilim” in these Last Days and during the Tribulation, and all of the FOCUS & SPECULATION that Prasch,Missler,Mike Hoggard,L.A.Marzulli,Tom Horn, ad NAUSEUM put on these things and make “MEGA BUCK$” off books & videos from PURE “Human VAIN Imaginings”, God’s Word does NOT address it.

    The only “glimpse” we have regarding demonic and Satanic activity is the antichrist,the false prophet, “Mystery,Babylon the Great, the Mother of all harlots(the soon-coming One World Religion{“Bride of Satan}”, and the “locusts” released from the Abyss, and actually, MOST of the Trib. will be FILLED with Satanic activity as JUDGMENT from GOD & The Lamb on this whole Christ-rejecting,EVIL-loving world! We are NOT to go beyond the BOUNDARIES of God’s Word as His people, because we LOVE and are OBEDIENT to His BELOVED Son!

    The Book of Revelation IMPLIES that by the time The Millenial Reign of our Lord Jesus Christ is OVER, the procreation of the human race will also come to an end. At least that is what I discern from my reading of Revelation. Thereafter comes the Great White Throne Judgment of all the unsaved people of all time past, and they go into their Hellish eternity in The Lake of Fire. We go into our FOREVER Eternity as The Eternal Bride of Christ, ruling and reigning with Him, our BELOVED Bridegroom, FOREVER-AMEN!!

  52. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    S.E. Brown

    >> I DO BELIEVE that ALL humans (“hybrid” and otherwise) along with ALL the animals, PERISHED in the Great Flood, EXCEPT for Noah,his wife, their 3 sons and their wives, and all of the animals that GOD brought into the Ark for His Salvation, and to “start over” with that one FAITHFUL & OBEDIENT man, Noah, and his family.

    Nope this is not true, because the bible says there were Giants again after the flood, so how is this possible? (see article) Did some survive the flood? No, only Noah and his family survived. So where did these Giants then come from? Did more angels come down and have sexual relations with women? Nope.

    Please read the article for a biblical explanation of the Nephilim and who the sons of God actually were. :)

  53. steven says:

    [edited – deleted – please read the article for the truth on the Nephilim]

  54. MARK MURRAY says:

    This entire article isn’t a joke?? Ha I can’t believe you people are arguing over Lucifer and what he’s doing with his domain his kingdom the world. You guys are missing the point. Jesus said in the bible on multiple accounts that his kingdom was not of this world. He’s in it but not of it, we all know as Christians that Lucifer when he became jealous he chose to fall and take 1/3 of the angels with him. Sons of God mean fallen angels. You people actually think every civilization that has myths, stories and legends of Giants are coincidence and just fables of imagination?? What about all the Egyptian hieroglyphs of cross species mixing dogs with humans birds with humans and so on what if those are real accounts of genetic splicing done by fallen angels that the humans of the day worshipped as gods?? Isn’t there a similar scenario in ancient Greek mythology of genetic manipulation?? Isn’t that the main reason God wanted to flood the Earth to wipe clean the atrocities the fallen angels had created?? They [fallen angels] hate God and lucifer seeks to go against God and his plan on a minute by minute basis!? The reason this stuff is so important now a days is technology has progressed to the point where we [humans] are genetically modifying EVERYTHING NOW!! From food to splicing pigs with jelly fish DNA to make them glow. Why bicker with each other of scripture and look at the fact that we ALL WANT TO LIVE AND PROSPER AND SPREAD THE GOOD WORD OF CHRIST AND WHAT HE DID BY COMING TO EARTH AND DYING FOR US SO THAT WE MAY LIVE AND ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD!! I don’t know about you guys or not but I don’t want to be fooled by all these Ancient Alien astronaut theorist that believe ancient aliens influence civilization and maybe potentially planted or genetically modified humans a long time ago and the idea that there is no god. I’m not a hater or anything like that I do believe you have every right to think, say and believe whatever you chose, but I just hate to see Christians fight over this subject?! Thats playing directly into lucifers hands. If you have time look at my blog to help you do some research on the subject and other things. also take some time to look up who Alice Bailey is and who Helena Blavatsky is and what the company is that Mrs. Bailey started in the early part of last century called originally Lucifer Publishing Company then changed it after pressure to Lucis Trust. They are involved heavily with the U.N. from the very beginning creation of the United Nations and are believers of the New Age or Ageless Wisdom philosophies… Then go read Mark 13: Matthew 24:
    Thank you and God Bless all!!

  55. Mark Murray.

    Don’t you think it’s about time you believe Jesus who said:

    For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Matthew 22:30

  56. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Mark

    >> I don’t know about you guys or not but I don’t want to be fooled by all these….

    That is weird because based on your comment you are being fooled by rejecting the scriptural relevance of this article and it seems you are quite happy to allow other people to follow after false teaching.

    I am sorry that you would rather believe occult teachings than the simple truth of the bible.

  57. MARK MURRAY says:

    AMEN!!

  58. louise says:

    Oh boy here I go again. In all truth I am one of those who support the theory of the Nephillim……….till now. Out come my old notes and I shall ask God to guide me into all truth. I don’t mind being wrong 1000 times but I just want the truth. Thank you for this article. I need to know from the word for myself what is truth and for awhile I have know that Tom Horn and Chris Putnim are false so yes I shall need to re-address my knowledge on this topic.

  59. Louise wrote:

    Oh boy here I go again. In all truth I am one of those who support the theory of the Nephillim……….till now.

    We should rather support Jesus who said:

    But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: (Luk 20:35)

    Angels – holy and fallen – cannot procreate. So what’s the point in having allegedly taken wives to themselves? Angels are spirit beings. Imagine women having sex with beings they cannot see and saying “Darling, where are you? Are you here? Give me a sign that you are here. Oh there you are, honey. Giggle, giggle, giggle.

    How Christians can believe such nonsense, goes far beyond normal reasoning. But then again, the Bible is always true when it says:

    That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. (Eph 4:14)

    Some Christians really need some kind of tutorship in married life and what it takes to make a normal marriage work. Not being able to see and touch your spouse is way beyond marital reasoning, as I said, and definitely does not contribute to a happy and successful marriage.

  60. Pat Brown says:

    DTW,who do you believe were the “sons of God” referred to in Genesis 6? I am assuming by your text that we cannot know who they were, only who they were not? Is that correct or have I overlooked something contained in your text?
    Thank you for your faithful commitment to the truth.

  61. Pat Brown says:

    DTW, since you are probably not tending this thread at the moment, I would like to suggest that you, at your convenience, study the use of the Hebrew word “asher” in the context of the Genesis 6:4 verse. When responding to my initial question above, let me know what you may or may not find in regard to the use of this word in that context. I sought out a good Hebrew-English transliteration of the Book of Genesis on the internet so that I could do my own reading of the verse in controversy in the Hebrew text. The transliteration I found is based upon the Masoretic text.

    http–qbible.com-Hebrew-old-testament-genesis-6.html

  62. Pat Brown wrote:

    DTW,who do you believe were the “sons of God” referred to in Genesis 6? I am assuming by your text that we cannot know who they were, only who they were not? Is that correct or have I overlooked something contained in your text?

    Thank you for your faithful commitment to the truth.

    It couldn’t have been fallen angels because Jesus is not a liar.

    Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Mat 22:28-30)

    The first thing we need to clarify is, when were these fallen angels cast into Tartarus (a place of dense darkness)? Jude tells us they were cast into Tartarus after they abandoned their original or first estate (habitation) in heaven and that they will be confined to it in everlasting chains until the day of judgment. The term “first estate” simply means that they abandoned their original position as holy angels (separated unto God to love, obey and worship Him), and chose to follow Satan, the mastermind of the rebellion against God. They turned their backs on the purpose God originally had for them and in stead followed Satan. If these angels had been cast into Tartarus after they had fallen from their first estate and have since been kept in chains in Tartarus until the Day of Judgment, they could not possibly have come to earth to cohabit with earthly women to allegedly produce giants (Nephilim).

    The alternate scenario is that they sinned (left their first estate in heaven), came to earth, had sex with earthly women and were then cast into Tartarus. This is what the corrupt NET (New English Translation of the Bible), suggests. “So also Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring towns, since they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to these angels, are now displayed as an example by suffering the punishment of eternal fire.” The NET Bible is the only translation that says it in this way. If it were true that the fallen angels had sex with women, their relationship would have been a heterosexual one because they allegedly produced offspring. Homosexual relationships cannot produce offspring. It is therefore extremely odd for the NET Bible to say that homosexuals in Sodom indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to the fallen angels.

    The true meaning of Jude 1:6-7 is very simple. The first estate of the angels relates to God’s will for them and that was to love, obey and worship Him only. Similarly, the first or original estate God intended for men and women, was to have a normal, natural relationship within the confines of a marital bond in an atmosphere of love and respect for, and obedience to God. The men in Sodom and Gomorrah overstepped these bounds, left their original estate and pursued an unnatural relationship with other men. Therefore, the similarity between the fallen angels and the men in Sodom must not be sought in their respective sexual relationships – the angels’ alleged heterosexual relationship with women and the sodomites’ same sex relationships – but in their respective estates (God’s original purpose for them) which they willfully abandoned.

    At any rate, Jesus’ own words in Mark 12:24 and 25 entirely debunks the doctrine of fallen angels having had sexual relationships with women. “Jesus said to them, Is not this where you wander out of the way and go wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? For when they arise from among the dead, [men] do not marry nor are [women] given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven.” The simple reality is that spirit beings like angels cannot procreate, unless, of course, the fallen angels developed sexual organs after their fall to have sex with earthly women.

    This infamous doctrine is very dangerous. If spirit beings like angels were able to have sex with women and produce offspring, then it is but a step away to believe that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary to bring forth Jesus. Indeed, there are many who believe this extremely blasphemous lie.

    As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Pe 3:16)

  63. Pat Brown

    There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which (“asher”) were of old, men of renown. (Gen 6:4).

    Nimrod is said to have been a mighty hunter before God. His hunting and killing sprees were not limited to animals but to other men. Why? Because he believed that he was almighty God. He was renowned for this because he and his wife (Semiramis) and his son (Tammuz) were worshiped as gods. As such they were completely possessed and controlled by demons. They were not giants in stature (physique) but in superiority, conceitedness, pride, egotism, self-importance (you name it). If you go back to your Hebrew-English transliteration of the book of Genesis, you will see that “Nephilim” is not translated as giants in stature (physique) but as properly a feller, that is, a bully and tyrant. The dictionary defines feller as follows:

    fell3 [fel] Show IPA
    adjective
    1.
    fierce; cruel; dreadful; savage.
    2.
    destructive; deadly: fell poison; fell disease.

    Who or what made them like this? Their own sinful nature and above all the demons who possessed them.

  64. Let’s look at this from a logical point of view.

    1) God created man and woman to become an inseparable bond of unity (one flesh) in marriage.

    2) The main reason for this marital bond (as one flesh in marriage) is to bring forth children who are to be reared in the fear of the Lord.

    3) It follows that heterosexual relationships within the confines of a marital bond is not sinful because God made man and woman each with his and her own sexual organs and particular functions to produce offspring (This is common knowledge, isn’t it?)

    4) If angels (spirit beings) were able to have sex with female earthlings (flesh and blood), the most obvious thing to assume, is that God must have created these angels with the means to have sex with flesh and blood. They could not have miraculously developed sexual organs after their fall. Only God can create and call things that are not into existence. Kapisch? Unless, of course, spirit beings like angels are able to have sex without sexual organs and produce offspring.

    5) Let’s assume that God created angels to have sex with female earthlings. Common sense tels us that they would then have been made for heterosexual relationships. Having already seen that a heterosexual relationship between a man and a woman within the confines of a marital bond is not sinful, why then would it have been a sin for angels to take unto themselves wives and have sexual relations with them? How on earth can a spirit being like an angel and a female earthling of flesh and blood become one flesh? That’s ridiculous.

    6) We know from Matthew 22:30 that the angels were not made to have sex with anybody. Therefore we must conclude that the sons of God in Genesis 6 do not refer to angels.

  65. The doctrine that fallen angels married female earthlings and had children with them is a pagan, Neo-Gnostic, New Age teaching.

    THE NEW AGE AND THE BOOK OF ENOCH

    Not only Christians are enamored with The Book of Enoch. New Agers are equally head over heels in love with it. Elizabeth Clare-Prophet, New Ager and founder of the  Church Universal and Triumphant, wrote a book called “Fallen Angels and the Origins of Evil: Why Church Fathers Suppressed The Book Of Enoch And Its Startling Revelations”

    She wrote:

    “The question that has become the subject of my research is this: If evil angels used to be around on earth and, as Scripture seems to indicate, wore the guise of common men, why couldn’t they still be around? Given the state of affairs on planet earth, where would we find them today? Do they manipulate our government? Mismanage the economy?”

    “Therefore, I am prepared to prove and document that they (Nephilim) are with us today in positions of power in church and state as prime movers in matters of war and finance, sitting in the banking houses and on policy-making councils that determine the actual fate of mankind by population control and genetic engineering, the control of energy and commodities, education and the media, and by ideological and psycho-political strategies of divide and conquer on all fronts.”

    “The untold story of men and angels is a crack in the door of the full and final exposé of the Manipulators and the manipulated, the Oppressors and the oppressed. When I shall have penned the last word of the last volume of my ongoing essay, it will be clear, by the grace of God and his Holy Spirit — my Comforter and Teacher — that the embodied fallen angels, who are the main subject of Enoch’s prophecy, have been from the beginning the spoilers of the dreams of God and man.”

    If, as Elizabeth Clare-Prophet asserts, fallen angels are among us today in the flesh and holding sway over every human enterprise from politics to banking to the church, it follows that they must have been incarnated. In essence it defames Jesus Christ’s first advent in the flesh and suggests that his incarnation was not unique and just one of many. Furthermore, it downplays the fall of Adam and Eve and subsequently the entire human race into sin. Fallen angels who allegedly now live in the flesh among us are to blame for all the wrongs and chaos in the world and not the personal sin of every individual.

  66. The following passage from Scripture serves to prove that the sons of God in Genesis 6 were not fallen angels but the seed of godly Seth who married ungodly women. It also proves how serious God regards marriage between a believer and an unbeliever (2 Cor. 6:14-16). Someone once said that when a child of God marries an unbeliever, Satan becomes his/her father in law.

    In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab: And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews’ language, but according to the language of each people. And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves. Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin. Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives? And one of the sons of Joiada, the son of Eliashib the high priest, was son in law to Sanballat the Horonite: therefore I chased him from me. Remember them, O my God, because they have defiled the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood, and of the Levites. Thus cleansed I them from all strangers, and appointed the wards of the priests and the Levites, every one in his business; And for the wood offering, at times appointed, and for the firstfruits. Remember me, O my God, for good. (Neh 13:23-31)

  67. Pat Brown says:

    Thank you, TL. You at least made an effort to answer the question concerning who the “sons of God” are without repetitively reasserting who they could not possibly be. My personal interest in this thread is not the laudable and necessary exposing of false teachers but rather the possibility of getting to the truth. I personally made a living out of exposing doctrinal error and false prophecy a la Dr. Walter Martin. However, I found through time that it was not my gifting and I was, unlike Dr. Martin, just indulging my carnal nature. So admittedly my primary interest here is coming to a conclusion concerning the issue in controversy- Who are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:4?
    It is a large creation and attempting to identify by elimination can be exhausting. We are given all we need for life and godliness; so if there is no definitive explanation of these beings in the Holy Word of God, then I will patiently wait for its revelation. In the meantime, I will examine the scriptural evidence for the sons-of-Seth possibility.
    Also, does anyone have an opinion based upon scripture concerning the use of the Hebrew “asher” in Genesis 6:4?
    I am enjoying this communication and I will wait upon the Lord.

  68. Pat Brown,

    Why is the word “ahser” so particularly interesting to you?

    I think we should take Jesus’ words in Matthew 22:30 very seriously.

  69. Pat Brown says:

    http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0834.html

    …line upon line, precept upon precept…

    Etymologists have translated the Hebrew word, “asher”, into the English word “when” in Genesis 6:4. Agreed? That translation should be determined by context since the Hebrew word asher has over a dozen possible definitions i.e. see link above.. Perhaps the dedication of some to the idea that there were giants upon the Earth in those days and afterward because the sons of God took unto themselves wives from the daughters of man is because one of the possible definitions of asher is “because of.” According to the resource I linked to above, asher is used with that meaning in several other texts, one of which is in Isaiah.
    There should be a contextual rule that determines asher as “when” and not as “because of.”
    Now for the sake of argument, let us say the contextual rule is not clear in this citation. Let us then also contemplate the possibility that the “sons of God” can only be angels based on Job. The result is that the approved translation “when” is totally dependent upon the belief that the “sons of God” are angels. Ergo, absent some kind of Mormon heresy or a possible sons-of-Seth explanation, the Nephilim cannot be offspring because of a union between sons of god and daughters of men.
    So, at this point I am just trying to make sure that the translators did in fact use that logic in deciding that “because of” (causal)would be problematic where as “when” (co-incidental)would not.
    I have learned through the years that translators benignly take liberties when faced with conundrums which they believe might cause stress or confusion for the reader.

  70. Pat Brown,

    I have noticed that you haven’t once commented on Matthew 22:30. It is a pivotal text in a correct understanding of Genesis 6:4. Spirit beings like angels cannot produce offspring. It’s as simple as that.

  71. Adam Clarke rightly divides the Word of God when he says:

    When men began to multiply – It was not at this time that men began to multiply, but the inspired penman speaks now of a fact which had taken place long before. As there is a distinction made here between men and those called the sons of God, it is generally supposed that the immediate posterity of Cain and that of Seth are intended. The first were mere men, such as fallen nature may produce, degenerate sons of a degenerate father, governed by the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eye, and the pride of life. The others were sons of God, not angels, as some have dreamed, but such as were, according to our Lord’s doctrine, born again, born from above, Joh_3:3, Joh_3:5,Joh_3:6, etc., and made children of God by the influence of the Holy Spirit, Gal_5:6. The former were apostates from the true religion, the latter were those among whom it was preserved and cultivated. Dr. Wall supposes the first verses of this chapter should be paraphrased thus: “When men began to multiply on the earth, the chief men took wives of all the handsome poor women they chose. There were tyrants in the earth in those days; and also after the antediluvian days powerful men had unlawful connections with the inferior women, and the children which sprang from this illicit commerce were the renowned heroes of antiquity, of whom the heathens made their gods.”

  72. Pat Brown says:

    Jesus didactically clear there (Matthew 22:30) that the resurrected saints will not be allowed or will not be able to engage in physical union in their glorified bodies as is the case with the angels IN HEAVEN. What we must not do is make a leap about why the angels IN HEAVEN do not marry nor appear to have a gender reference or sexual function. This begs the question, Who are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:4. Are they angels? Are they angels visiting Earth? Are they angels on Earth because they were cast out of heaven? Are they angels who voluntarily followed Satan and by so doing left their first estate which may mean that their last estate included a change in their essence and/or form? Are they the first generations of man? The Holy Word of God does not address such questions; therefore the best explanation under the illuminated text is that whoever the sons of God were they were not the angels IN HEAVEN. Anything beyond this appears to me to be rational conjecture at best. After some study, I must also believe that attributing the origin of the “sons of God” to Seth is also at best only a rational conjecture.
    As you know, a number of the theories floating about which concern these issues are derived from extra-biblical or non-canonical texts i.e. The Book of Enoch. Some of their proponents do not reference these sources but I have my suspicions.
    Finally, I do not have the answer; but I must submit to the Holy Word of God without reading between the lines.
    I have got a lot to learn and look forward to that day when we see Him face to face. Until then, I am confident that we have all we need for life and godliness.

  73. Pat Brown,

    I think you are a bit confused.

  74. Pat Brown says:

    This is a supposition:

    “As there is a distinction made here between men and those called the sons of God, it is generally supposed that the immediate posterity of Cain and that of Seth are intended.”

    It is generally supposed by whom?

    I am only attempting to point out that there is way to much supposition going on instead of true contextual exegesis? Such always leads to confusion. It isn’t embarrassing to have to admit that we sometimes just don’t have an answer; and pardon me, but I don’t think you or I have an answer to the question, “Who are the sons of God referred to in Genesis 6:4.

    I apologize for some of my convoluted and rambling exposition.

  75. Pat brown,

    Your problem is you don’t believe what Jesus says in Matthew 22:30. Why don’t you believe Him? Is He a liar?

  76. Pat Brown says:

    TL, please don’t put words in my mouth. I have already affirmed above the teaching of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, concerning our glorified state after the resurrection i.e. that we. like the ANGELS IN HEAVEN, will not engage in conjugal relations. My question to you is do you believe that your interpretation of the Genesis passage conforms with orthodox guidelines for an exegesis of the canon of scripture?

    I don’t think so; so I must conclude that your view is exegetically unacceptable. I will also say that while it meets the test of orthodoxy in that it does not compromise the faith and doctrine taught by our Lord and taught His holy apostles and prophets; it fails, however, to submit to the laws of interpretation of scripture which DO NOT INCLUDE SUPPOSITION.

    Eisegesis is not exegesis! Eisegesis is what you claim is being done by the proponents of the Serpent Seed teaching and the Giant Race teaching who you are inveighing against; and I agree with you on that. Keep on inveighing against them. But please don’t engage in that same approach to scripture that they are engaging in to make your point.

    My only purpose in joining this thread was to point out our limitations. Unless the Lord, through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, makes known to us this mystery of scripture; then it remains a mystery. Most of the great divides in the body derive from pride and/or prejudice. Let us avoid that; and rather let that same mind be in us which was in Christ Jesus. Let us agree with the inspired words Paul who said that God has and is abounding toward us in all wisdom and prudence having made known to us His will according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself: That in the dispensation of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth; even in Him.. Ephesians 1:8-10 That’s not ecumenism; that’s God doing something only He can do.

    Once again, my response is not an argument; for me, it is only the question that remains unanswered, Who are the Sons of God referenced in Genesis 6:4? Explaining who they are not is not answering the question unless you first make an assertion of who only they might possibly be and then by elimination reduce that set of possibilities down to one and only one possibility. Sounds easy but it ain’t!

    May God bless you and keep you in His peace.

    Pat

    May God bless you and keep you…
    Pat

  77. Pat Brown,

    And still you refuse to believe Jesus who said: “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” (Mat 22:30).

    Ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate your mind so that you may understand and accept Jesus’ words in Matthew 22:30. Stop being so stubborn.

  78. Janet Sangha says:

    I am angry. You said Jacob Prasch mentions the Nephilim in ‘practically every’ video, book & conference.
    That is an absolute lie.
    I have listened to masses of his talks, read his books & been at conferences, & your statement is absolutely UNTRUE.I even had great difficulty in finding a reference to nephilim when searching countless U.Tubes.
    Also, on you page you indicate that he says women fell pregnant to these nephilim. Re. read his words.He said that they had intercourse with them – Yes, in occult, weird possessed people DO – practise this vile act.
    If he warns of the coming increase in the manifestation of demons, then he is not wrong.
    You have done great damage both to Jacob Prasch’s reputation & also to mine when recommending his works to others & being ridiculed – because of your article.

  79. Janet Sangha wrote:

    Also, on you page you indicate that he says women fell pregnant to these nephilim. Re. read his words.He said that they had intercourse with them – Yes, in occult, weird possessed people DO – practise this vile act.

    Who are you going to believe – Jesus Christ or Jacob Prasch?

    Jesus said: “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (Mat 22:30)

    Now, if you go back to Genesis 6:2 you will notice (so please put on your new set of glasses) that it does not only mention intercourse but marriage. They actually took wives and married them. You and Jacob Prasch seem to think that the women in those days were so stupid to marry spirit beings (fallen angels) they could not see, touch, smell and cuddle. Your view of Genesis 6 leads to the bizarre situation where the women says to her invisible husband. “Honey, I really want a baby from you. Where are you? Oh there you are, giggle . . . giggle. Oh dear, there you go again. I am serious. I want a baby from you because I just love to give birth to BIIIIIG GIANTS. Don’t worry, we will find a gynaecologist who can deliver BIIIIG GIANTS from normal size wombs.

    I am sick and tired of Christians who don’t know why God instituted marriage between a man and a woman. Now, listen very carefully in case you don’t know yet. It is NOT, I repeat NOT to only have intercourse but to have LITTLE BABIES, TODDLERS, KIDS, OFFSPRING, BROODS. KAPISCH???

    Prasch’s silly notion that the Nephilim (fallen angels, spirit beings, demons) only had intercourse with the women (they must have used some kind of contraceptive that prevented the women from falling pregnant) completely makes a mockery of Genesis 6:2. WAKE UP or make an effort to attend some kind of marriage counselling sessions to learn what marriage is all about. You will probably learn that it is not only about having intercourse as Jacob Prasch foolishly asserts BUT PRMARILY TO BEGIN A HAPPY LITTLE FAMILY (God willing).

  80. Jacob Prasch says:

    The Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women. [Emphasis added]

    To even suggest that the Nephilim survived the Great Flood is an outright denial of:-

    1) God’s omnipotence. If the so-called Nephilim survived the Flood it would mean that God failed in his purpose and resolve to judge and execute the entire fallen world, except righteous Noah and his family. Is God a liar?

    . . . because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. (1 Pe 3:20)

    if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2Pe 2:5)

    The Bible clearly says that only eight souls were saved in the Flood. Is the Bible lying?

    2) Jesus Christ’s unique salvific work on the cross. If the Nephilim survived the Flood without the Ark, it would mean that some sinners are going to survive God’s Last Judgment without Jesus Christ who is our Ark of Salvation.

    Note carefully Prasch says:

    Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.

    “These things are the ‘fallen ones???'” Really? Were they the only “fallen ones?” Adam and Eve and their entire posterity are/were “fallen ones” and none of them survived the Flood except Noah and his family, eight souls in total, and they were definitely NOT giants.

  81. louise says:

    The discussion of the Nephillim is a topic that has no winners. To get angry over it allows for the enemy to sneak in and make Christians angry. Anger is sinful. So who is the winner? Satan.

    There are 3 schools of thought on the Nehillim so those who think differently should allow each and very one to have their own thoughts on the matter as it does not change who we are in Christ Jesus. It does not make you unborn again as once saved always saved is my belief.

    Often we listen to well know teachers and we allow their thinking and teaching to persuade us instead of us doing our own research. Study to show yourself approved and trust the Holy Spirit to show you once you stop operating in the flesh by demanding your way is the only right way and wait upon the Lord to teach you all things.

    Debating this issue is pointless and very harmful to the body and it brings division amongst us.

    There is no cut and dry answer to the “Fallen Angel” situation and I for one would hate to put my will onto another.

    We have to pick up our cross and follow Jesus and not to allow this kind of debating to interfere with the real goal which is to bring the word of the Lord to the lost.

    Brothers and Sisters in Christ its a very sad day when I see you fight amongst each other. Don’t do it. Walk away, repent and forgive each other and allow each other to have their own view point. Let God do the rest.

    take care .

  82. louise,

    There is the Truth and then there is the lie. The Truth is from God and the lie from Satan. Which of these do you prefer to follow?

    You said:

    There is no cut and dry answer to the “Fallen Angel” situation and I for one would hate to put my will onto another.

    Rubbish! The cut and dry answer is in Matthew 22:30 but you refuse to believe Jesus and his Truth. So, go ahead, you are welcome to follow Satan’s lies.

    Paul of Tarsus ceaselessly debated and refuted false teachers. Since when is debating pointless?

    Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3)

  83. Louise.

    The discussion of the Nephillim is a topic that has no winners. To get angry over it allows for the enemy to sneak in and make Christians angry. Anger is sinful. So who is the winner? Satan.

    If you think “contending for the faith (the Truth)” is a matter of winning or losing, then you have no idea what the cross of Jesus Christ is about. Don’t you remember that He died on the cross so that we may be saved for eternity, but also that we may be made free from everything that pertains to Satan and his lies?

    One of the most dangerous things about a wrong reading of Genesis 6:1-4 is that it diverts the attention from the truth in regard to the Fall of mankind in Genesis 3 and its remedy in John 3:16. It is no longer the sin of Adam and Eve and their offspring (every individual human being born of women) that plunged the world in death, mayhem and chaos but the sins of the hybrids (giants, Nephilim) who were allegedly born of fallen spirit beings and women of flesh and blood. If it were true that these hybrids (Nephilim) were born of fallen angels (spirit beings) and women of flesh and blood, they must have been part of the world and as such Jesus died and paid the ransom for their sins as well. Can you see how the belief in the Nephilim, being the offspring of fallen angels and women, distorts the Gospel in John 3:16? It forces one to say that Jesus died for every single person in the world accept the hybrids (Nephilim) born of fallen angels and women. With this doctrine the ball is again back in the court of the Calvinists who believe that Jesus did not die for every single human being but only for the elect. No wonder Jacob Prasch could say those sweet things about John MacArthur before he showed his true colours in his statement that saints may take the mark of the beast and still be saved.

    The doctrine of the Nephilim being hybrids born in wedlock between fallen spirit beings and women of flesh and blood demeans, vilifies and slanders the cross of Jesus Christ. It is a very dangerous doctrine and belongs in Tartarus where some of the fallen angels are kept in chains until the Day of Judgment.

  84. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    >>I want a baby from you because I just love to give birth to BIIIIIG GIANTS. Don’t worry, we will find a gynaecologist who can deliver BIIIIG GIANTS from normal size wombs.

    ROFTL – That was the funniest comment ever, Thomas! Yes, why don’t people think!

  85. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Janet

    >> I am angry. You said Jacob Prasch mentions the Nephilim in ‘practically every’ video, book & conference. That is an absolute lie. I have listened to masses of his talks, read his books & been at conferences, & your statement is absolutely UNTRUE

    Then you are not paying attention, just like you are not paying attention to the bible regarding the truth about the Nephilim.

  86. Richard,

    Your problem is that you do not believe what Jesus said in Matthew 22:30. Is He a liar?

  87. Richard says:

    Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:

    Richard,

    Your problem is that you do not believe what Jesus said in Matthew 22:30. Is He a liar?

    @ THOMAS Well Thomas.. I have this problem when I talk to Muslims.. About The word begotten. They say “How can G-D “impregnate a woman”.

    well since all heavenly bodies are neither male or female in sex.

    you know the answer. You should think through it your self.

    my answer will be, found in your reply to my question.

    How if heavenly bodies are neither male or female. how could a virgin be impregnated by a spirit?

    The natural man can only see things carnally 1 Corinthians 2:14.

  88. Richard,

    Your problem is that you do not believe what Jesus said in Matthew 22:30. Is He a liar?

    @ THOMAS Well Thomas.. I have this problem when I talk to Muslims.. About The word begotten. They say “How can G-D “impregnate a woman”.

    well since all heavenly bodies are neither male or female in sex.

    you know the answer. You should think through it your self.

    my answer will be, found in your reply to my question.

    How if heavenly bodies are neither male or female. how could a virgin be impregnated by a spirit?

    The natural man can only see things carnally 1 Corinthians 2:14.

    You are doing exactly what I warned against in one of my previous comments and that is to believe that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary. The dangerous and infamous lie that fallen angels impregnated women to produce giants on earth, has led to this equally infamous and blasphemous lie. Carnal men who cannot discern the truth can only see things carnally, as you said. (1 Corinthians 2:14). If the shoe fits you, wear it. I must say, the shoe fits you 100% because you are thinking carnally 100%.

  89. Les says:

    Good Afternoon, What these fellows are preaching and using as evidence – photshopped photos – brings Christianity into disrepute making Christians no better than the cheats and liars who are pushing their own agenders so people will not even want to know Jesus Christ. Christians follow CHRIST and no wehere in the life of Jesus can anyone find He has told any lies so we should be His example on earth. This means TRUTH should always be told – then people like Stephen Hawkens of this world would have nothing to ridicule CHRISTianity

  90. Dave says:

    Chuck and Jacob are correct. The Scriptural evidence is overwhelming and yet stupid people rage against it. Why? Because they are blind. The truth will OUT so you WILL see it and soon. They have well defended their points so I will not bother adding to it.

  91. Dave

    There is absolutely no Scriptural evidence that demons copulated with women to produce giants. Rubbish!

  92. Heather says:

    Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:

    Richard,
    Your problem is that you do not believe what Jesus said in Matthew 22:30. Is He a liar?
    @ THOMAS Well Thomas.. I have this problem when I talk to Muslims.. About The word begotten. They say “How can G-D “impregnate a woman”.
    well since all heavenly bodies are neither male or female in sex.
    you know the answer. You should think through it your self.
    my answer will be, found in your reply to my question.
    How if heavenly bodies are neither male or female. how could a virgin be impregnated by a spirit?
    The natural man can only see things carnally 1 Corinthians 2:14.
    You are doing exactly what I warned against in one of my previous comments and that is to believe that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary. The dangerous and infamous lie that fallen angels impregnated women to produce giants on earth, has led to this equally infamous and blasphemous lie. Carnal men who cannot discern the truth can only see things carnally, as you said. (1 Corinthians 2:14). If the shoe fits you, wear it. I must say, the shoe fits you 100% because you are thinking carnally 100%.

    Thomas, I must say I find you very amusing because you apparently believe that people have to be married to procreate? Sadly it’s a state of affairs that occurs on a daily basis whether it was God’s intended purpose or not. Even God had a child out of wedlock. In fact he had child with a woman who was engaged to and then married another man. Now I will admit that the bible does not say that Mary had INTERCOURSE or even SEX with God, but it does very clearly state that she became pregnant with Jesus through/from/by/of the Holy Spirit/Ghost(Matthew 1:18)depending on which version you read, pretty much leaving the reader/interpreter to draw their own conclusions. Then you question why people believe that angels had sex with humans? Maybe they didn’t have SEX or INTERCOURSE with them but conceived children in the same manner that God conceived a child with Mary and people just assumed they had sex because, well by gosh, that’s how they would do it!

    I find your answers to people on this thread quite snarky and sarcastic at times (although the one about having babies with giants and finding a gyno to deliver said babies was pretty hilarious) when this is supposed to be an intellectual debate over Christian beliefs. Insulting people because they don’t read the same version of the bible as you do is counterproductive as well and does not endear anyone to your cause. You said that “Paul of Tarsus ceaselessly debated and refuted false teachers. Since when is debating pointless?” Debating becomes pointless when you trade intellect and faith for insults, such as when you basically accused Louise of being a Satanist and Richard of only thinking with his privates. Maybe I am just interpreting that wrong? :D I am still on the fence about my personal beliefs on the whole subject, but I am extremely interested in what others have to say. The original version of the bible has been re-interpreted so many times and there are so many different versions and so many different sects of Christianity that it is easy to get lost in who’s right and who’s wrong. It’s like the Tower of Babel all over again. Maybe it’s God’s way of forcing us to struggle to understand instead of thinking we know it all. Try that one on for size.

    “Never look down on anybody unless you’re helping him up.”

    Jesse Jackson

  93. Heather or Jesse Jackson or whoever you are,

    You may find me amusing and sarcastic but I find it exceptionally blasphemous of you to accuse God of adultery. Your statement “Even God had a child out of wedlock. In fact he had child with a woman who was engaged to and then married another man” is extremely offensive. God did NOT HAVE a child with a woman as any human being may have with another human being. Jesus Christ has always been his Son from eternities past and He simply prepared a body for Him in the womb of the Virgin Mary. (Hebrews 10:5).

    Although you seemingly admit that the Holy Spirit did not have sex with Mary, your attempt to liken Mary’s pregnancy to that of the alleged pregnancies of women who supposedly had sex with fallen angels is equally blasphemous. It suggests that not only the Holy Spirit has the power to incarnate spiritual beings but that spiritual beings like fallen angels are equally adept to incarnate their own offspring. In fact, you are attributing deity to fallen angels because they supposedly produced offspring in the very same way the Holy Spirit incarnated Jesus Christ.

    You sanctimoniously find my “answers to people on this thread quite snarky and sarcastic at times (although the one about having babies with giants and finding a gyno to deliver said babies was pretty hilarious) when this is supposed to be an intellectual debate over Christian beliefs.”

    No one in his right mind can possibly have an intellectual debate with anyone who believes in sci-fi nonsense. If you, for instance believed that the Holy Spirit is God and therefore the only One who can incarnate spiritual beings, you would never have argued,

    “Now I will admit that the bible does not say that Mary had INTERCOURSE or even SEX with God, but it does very clearly state that she became pregnant with Jesus through/from/by/of the Holy Spirit/Ghost(Matthew 1:18) depending on which version you read, pretty much leaving the reader/interpreter to draw their own conclusions. Then you question why people believe that angels had sex with humans? Maybe they didn’t have SEX or INTERCOURSE with them but conceived children in the same manner that God conceived a child with Mary and people just assumed they had sex because, well by gosh, that’s how they would do it!”

    Once again, you are making fallen angels equal to the Holy Spirit, at least in the sense to “conceive children in the same manner that God conceived a child with Mary.” God did not conceive anyone with Mary. He prepared a body for his Son who had always been and always will be his Son.

    You wrote:

    The original version of the bible has been re-interpreted so many times and there are so many different versions and so many different sects of Christianity that it is easy to get lost in who’s right and who’s wrong. It’s like the Tower of Babel all over again. Maybe it’s God’s way of forcing us to struggle to understand instead of thinking we know it all. Try that one on for size.

    Are you saved? Do you really trust the God of the Bible? Here’s what Dave Hunt says:

    Well first of all, the Bible is God’s Word, okay? So God is going to watch over it. And he’s in charge of this process. When we work on that assumption, it kind of takes care of some of these questions. Furthermore, we have the early church. I don’t find any objection—for example we have Peter saying about Paul’s writings as being scripture and Peter doesn’t say yeah, but there are some of them that got lost unfortunately. We don’t find any indication in the New Testament that there were other books. Now the Old Testament is quoted, you know we have the Book of Acts and we have Christians writing letters back and forth to one another. We’ve got thousands of these letters. In fact, you could reproduce almost the entire New Testament except for, I think, fourteen or fifteen verses that Christians have quoted one another. We don’t find them quoting some other book, and then we say oh what happened? It’s lost; I guess there must be another book out there that was lost. We have the council’s meeting later on. It was not until 397 the Council of Carthage that council that set forth the 26 books of the New Testament. But many councils for a century before had been quoting from the New Testament. We don’t find anyone quoting from some other book. Something else was written and then it was lost and so forth. There’s no need for other records. You say well you had 15 apostles, I’m not sure, I’d have to go back and try to count them, but Paul was an apostle, so we have thirteen at least, but then he mentions some others, but we do have Matthew, Mark, and Luke. These are other records in addition to the apostles. Why do we need more? This is complete. There is no reason why there ought to be any other books.

    You advise me to –

    “Never look down on anybody unless you’re helping him up.”

    You can’t be serious, can you? How can you accuse me of looking down on anybody when you have no qualms to look down on God and his Word?

  94. Heather wrote:

    Thomas, I must say I find you very amusing because you apparently believe that people have to be married to procreate?

    Now I understand why you are prone to the doctrines of demons. You should read your Bible. Genesis 6 clearly says that the sons of God “took them wives of all which they chose.” They married them. They did not have sex with them out of wedlock, as you suggest.

  95. Neville says:

    I found your article about the ” giants ” very interesting.

    I am not a Hebrew scholar so I don’t know what Nephilim means. Just going on the plain sense of an English translation ” there were giants in those days ” in the ancient world,I have no difficulty at all.
    Commentators seem to assume that the Bible is talking about giant humans. What if the Bible means giant animals. We know that there were giant animals in the ancient world e.g. dinosaurs.
    Perhaps that is the reference in the passage. If that is the case, then I think all the mystery and occultism disappears and the Bible statement becomes just a plain fact of prehistory.

  96. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Neville

    >> I am not a Hebrew scholar so I don’t know what Nephilim means

    The article is the truth Neville, if you don’t want to listen to BIBLICAL truth you are the one that is going to fall into deeper deception. The bible says you need to STUDY to show yourself approved before God. You are not studying Neville you are taking one word, ‘Nephillim; and making it sounds like it’s supposed to be demonic beings when it’s not – it’s not giant animals either, how can animals become to evil(sinful) that God makes up His mind to flood the earth. Seriously, re-read the article and learn the truth and put away strange doctrines that you infiltrating your mind.

  97. Jacques says:

    JACOB PRASCH DOES ABSOLUTELY NOT MENTION THIS IN PRACTICALLY EVERY VIDEO. OF EVERYTHING I HAVE LISTENED TO HIM I HAVE NOT EVEN HEARD HIM SPEAK ABOUT IT YET. YOU ARE A LIAR! STIRRER OF DIVISION AND FALSE ACCUSER AND WILL LOSE A FEW PRECIOUS STONES OVER THIS ONE.

    To deny this very weird situation in Genesis 6 is a distrust in the word of God, your going to have to really dig deep into making things as confusing as possible by blowing up all sorts of alternatives to the angel view when the text in the Hebrew is very clear that these sons of God are not just men. How can the Nephilim and the bene ha Elohim be mankind when man kind is referRed to as Adam? It says there were giants in the earth in those days and also after that, the Nephilim were all wiped out but the mingling of angels with women was not prevented after the flood. This is why in countless situations Israel were not to mingle with the heathen because that kind of racket was going on. I cannot believe my eyes that I am reading a Christian man saying that the media should be running wild if these giant skeletons were found, are you telling me that the Rockefeller Rothschild owned media will bring coverage about an event that will reveal the Biblical truth? I cant believe there are Christians who would be so gullible to think the media would show this to the world. If the media showed the video of the Chariot wheels in the red sea then what do you think peoples view would start to be of the Bible. The level of ignorance to actually think things through amongst Christians is disturbing, the men of understanding are vanishing by the minute. The old testament term of sons of God is not the same as the new testament, satan has never ever directly come to talk or be amongst men as to interact as far as I know, in Job it says satan presented Himself before the Lord with the sons of God? Do you think this was a few men and satan on earth sitting beside each other gathered before the Lord? Absolutely not. In the Bible we deal with the spiritual and physical realm, and we get glimpses of the spiritual warfare. What about the scripture which says some of us have entertained angels unawares? Have you ever taken into consideration the implication of that? Why don’t you the author debate Jacob Prasch? He loves to send out challenges but nobody wants to accept. Jesus was the Only One who could directly be approached by satan in terms of actual presence. I disagree with Chuck that these things will happen again though in the future.

  98. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Jacques

    >> OF EVERYTHING I HAVE LISTENED TO HIM I HAVE NOT EVEN HEARD HIM SPEAK ABOUT IT YET.

    So you have not listened to everything yet? Or paid any attention as to whether he even speaks about it. You can’t call me a liar because you actually don’t know..

    Secondly..I can’t believe my eyes either, clearly you like false teaching and you are blinded by it. Are you a Methodist like Jacob Prasch who follows the teachings of John Wesley and George Whitefield.

  99. Blad_RNR says:

    Deborah,
    I have watched at least 30 videos of Jacob Prasch. He never once mentions the Nephilim. And Jacob always tells his audience he is a Pentacostal.

    Where in the world did you get he was a Methodist??? Please provide a link.

    Thanks.

  100. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Blad_RNR

    >> I have watched at least 30 videos of Jacob Prasch. He never once mentions the Nephilim.

    Then you’ve watched the wrong ones, because all the ones I have watched he mentions the Nephillim and government secret documents regarding aliens etc.

    Now I ask if you will do some research: Go to the search box and search his website for teachings of John Wesley – his whole ministry is based on the teaching of John Wesley you might even find George Whitefield’s teachings there as well, in fact I just did a quick search on his website he even believes Spurgeon (Calvinist through and through) was appointed by God. Imagine that.

    Then last but not least you can go and check out the absolutely evil website he and his ministry team set up about me lying through his teeth, all because I dared to question his doctrine. Discerning the World – Defence from the Attacks of Jacob Prasch

  101. Blad_RNR says:

    I guess I don’t understand why you run this website, you seem to think everything out there is misleading us. You label people without trying to understand THEY ARE ALL SINNERS, INCLUDING ME AND YOU! Do you expect perfection? Was Paul without sin? He said he was the chief of sinners, yet we all take his writings as God inspired.

    Look, I am against the Rick Warren’s, Bill Johnson’s, and blatant DECEIVERS of the church. We can split hairs with others all we want. But I do know this about Jacob Prasch and his foundation of belief: Christ crucified, Christ risen, Christ coming back. He states that pretty clearly in one of his videos. If you agree with that, then everything else is a side conversation. And let me know when you can read Hebrew and Greek as fluently as he does. It helps when we can go back to original documents and read them as the were originally written. I know I can’t and I’ll bet you can’t either. It’s not a put down, it’s just that having someone in the church who lives meagerly as he does and isn’t looking to build the next Crystal Cathedral while having early historical and Biblical insight shouldn’t be thrown to the wolves because he doesn’t agree on some minor point with you.

    I’m done. No need to respond. Lot of hate on this site, and not much love or understanding. I repent every day to the Lord, and I am sure I will tonight for what I have written. The elect and chosen born-again believers need to stick together because the majority of the church is falling away as Jesus said they would. If we true believers fight amongst ourselves what good are we to each other?

  102. Blad_RNR wrote

    Look, I am against the Rick Warren’s, Bill Johnson’s, and blatant DECEIVERS of the church. We can split hairs with others all we want. But I do know this about Jacob Prasch and his foundation of belief: Christ crucified, Christ risen, Christ coming back. He states that pretty clearly in one of his videos. If you agree with that, then everything else is a side conversation.

    Really? The Pope, his entire priestly fraternity, his church (the RCC) and their followers believe exactly that. Are they saved?

    The belief that demons had sex with women and produced the Nephilim is not a minor thing. It’s an attack on the unique incarnation of Jesus Christ, unless you believe a spirit being with absolutely no sexual organ can have sex with and earthly woman and produce offspring. Come on, grow up.

  103. Neville says:

    Seriously, re-read the article and learn the truth and put away strange doctrines that you infiltrating your mind.

    Sadly Deborah, you have failed to discern the meaning of my post. I never declared any
    “doctrine” from my mind, strange or otherwise. It was just a consideration of the meaning of a single sentence where Moses described, in passing, a feature of the ancient world.

    I was saddened that you should make comments about my person for which you have no evidence whatsoever ( i.e. that I don’t study or that I am unreceptive to biblical truth ).

    Truth and discernment are surely underpinned by…evidence. Wouldn’t you agree?

  104. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Neville

    Ok, don’t re-read the article and learn the truth. It’s your choice.

  105. Kimani says:

    Strange, how you much venom you have directed towards servants of God, like Chuck Missler, simply because they expound and clarify biblical verses in a way that you disagree with. Fortunately, no amount of attacking the teaching about the Nephilim as taught by Chuck Missler and others will make it go away. I thank God for teachers like Jacob Prasch, who teach the Bible as is. (By the way, thanks for bringing him to my attention, I did not know about him before I saw your attack).

    I thought I’d just add my two cents worth to what my fellow “deceived” Christians who are not afraid to believe “bizarre” teachings have to say.

  106. Kimani wrote,

    No one here attacked Jacob Prasch or Chuck Missler. We are merely evaluating their teaching in the light of Scripture which, by the way, is a direct command from God (1 John 4:1). If you want to talk about attacking Christians, read this article.

    http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/11/30/jacob-prasch-the-railer/

    Who do you believe – Prasch or Jesus who said:

    (Mat 22:29)
    Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

    (Mat 22:30)
    For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

  107. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Kimani

    We direct no venom against Chuck Missler but towards his teachings.

    Chuck Missler is a false teacher because he preaches false teaching. He is a Dominionist who believes in Joel’s army. He preaches about aliens and the Nephillim (see this shocking articles on what Missler really believes:
    http://herescope.blogspot.com/2013/06/alien-encounters.html
    http://herescope.blogspot.com/2013/07/ancient-astronauts-star-children.html
    http://herescope.blogspot.com/2013/07/flying-saucers-and-interdimensional.html
    http://herescope.blogspot.com/2013/07/quantum-metaphysics.html
    http://herescope.blogspot.com/2013/08/entertaining-et.html
    .
    He and his wife wrote a book stating that some ‘Christians’ after they die will wonder wound in ‘never never land’ and never go to Heaven – http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/25/nancy-missler-and-henrietta-mears/

    Jacob Prasch is a teacher of Hebrewroots and says you need to understand tht Midrash in order to understand the bible? Do you understand the Midrash? I thought not. That means according to Prasch you don’t understand the bible.

    It is not our fault that you decide to follow false teaching. It is your fault and God will hold you accountable.

  108. Jeff says:

    Args: (Mat 22:30)
    For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    THIS IS NOT A PROOF TEXT FOR YOUR UNBELIEF ARGUMENT CONCERNING WHAT THE WORD OF GOD REVEALS IN REGARDS TO THE FALLEN ANGELS NOR THE NEPHILIM…

    Jesus states the Angels of God IN HEAVEN [do not] marry. He never says they cannot perform sex: Jesus is talking ONLY about Resurrected people in this passage. Likewise in His example He is ALSO ONLY referring to Righteous Angels who stayed in their first abode in context. See Jude 6 as crossed referenced with 2 Cor 5:2. Habitation and Abode are the same greek word. What we humans are aspiring to have- our habitation from heaven (our resurrection bodies)is what the fallen angels left who are now in chains. They left their first estate. Jude speaks to this at the time of Noah and even ties it to Sodom and Gomorrah as well. Peter speaks to this. Genesis speaks to this. By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word of truth is confirmed

    And if you can receive the Holy Spirits understanding that He gave me in conjunction with before the flood and AFTER THE FLOOD- you’ll see that the Bible’s lineage does record the nephilim (after the flood)in Gen 10 and 1 Chron 1. You will also notice in both they comes from the line of Cush… Therefore, NOTICE that all the giants tribes just appear with no one “begetting” them….You also will notice if you are a keen observer to the Spirit’s direction that it is these same tribes that God commands Israel to wipe out entirely. Every man woman and child and even in some cases all the animals in many passages of the Bible. Why? Add an “Ite” on and you have the nephilim offspring all over again trying to repopulate the earth and corrupt the seed of man ultimately to destroy God’s plan to bring in the Messiah…

    PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE the offspring of the sons of God (fallen angels) and human women did bare the hybrid nephilim… (THE SEED OF THE SERPENT) They were both before the flood and after the flood…(THIS IS THE Reason why God wiped everyone out except for Noah and his family in the flood. They did not have the corrupted DNA) God had said the end of ALL FLESH IS BEFORE ME…speaking of no pure human DNA left. NO pure Adam DNA Seed (created in the image of God) type left. Satan knew what he was trying to do. If he could wipe out the pure stock, the messiah would never come and he and his dominions could exist indefinitely. And it was close to working. Think about it. Satan got the human race of pure dna down to just 8 human souls. For Noah was perfect in his generations- his genealogy- his gene pool- his DNA. YES, Satan through fallen angels attempted to corrupt the human gene pool as well as raise offspring from his seed. THE FALLEN ANGELS MATED WITH HUMAN WOMAN…In doing so he was marring the image of God in us physically for he had already corrupted us spiritually. We have accounts of the giant bones as well everywhere. Do not be deceived. As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man… Jesus’ words concerning “eating and drinking” speaks of Idolatry. See ( 1 Cor 10:7) while “Marrying and giving into marriage” refers to the nephilim unions…(Gen 6:2) Also realize as well that Nimrod became a mighty hunter- became a Nephilim and that the Tower of Babel from Gen 11 covers the days of Noah as well…Also Jesus says that unless those days were shortened no FLESH would survive…. It would seem Jesus is warning us that the same thing is happening all over again…YOU PEOPLE better wake up…The mark of the beast most likely will include some genetic nano marker that will alter our human dna it appears…And why once one receives the mark they can never be saved… It will ultimately involve our own temples of God being transferred over to satan with no deposit of the Holy Spirit and no return..

    Finally, as some here have misrepresented Chuck Missler. He does NOT teach that UFO aliens are extra terrestrials. He teaches that they are inter dimensional beings. That they are in fact fallen angels AND HE IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT on that point. And what they have been doing is part of the nephilim rehybridiization of human beings that occurred before… It’s amazing how much in the dark much of the Christian church is.YOU would think some of the people on this comment board have never read Ephesians 6 let alone are saved…. Truly Jesus was so profoundly wise when He said, If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things… ???

    See Gen 10:8-11; 15-20/ 1 Chron 1:10-16 and compare with Numbers 13:28-33 and other scriptures concerning where God commands Israel to wipe out everyone…

    I am sorry if this cannot help your unbelief of God’s word. But those who do believe it will be much better prepared to understand what’s going on today with the rise of the antichrist kingdom (NWO)and the nephilim returning as well as be ready to endure the Great Tribulation…

    2nd Arg sample: …”unless you believe a spirit being with absolutely no sexual organ can have sex with and earthly woman and produce offspring. Come on, grow up.”

    THIS IS A DUMB STATEMENT AND HIGHLY PRESUMPTUOUS TO MAKE ~whoever above made it? … Jesus is the first born from the dead whom we shall be like in the resurrection…Question? Was He not the Son of Man and the Son of God fully? Certainly. Now did He have the organs in question in his Human body and does He still have them in His resurrection body? KEEPING IN MIND THE LORD GOD IS ABSOLUTELY HOLY HOLY HOLY!!! To make the claim angels have no organs is contradictory to scripture. For where it says we shall be like the angels as well as have resurrection bodies like Jesus the entire objection becomes nonsensical to make. It DOES NOT MATCH UP WITH SCRIPTURE. The word of God tells us what these fallen angels did period. They mated with human women and their offspring were hybrids. This mixing/marring of the image of God that man was created in via His DNA was an abomination…And unlike Balaams donkey who at least had the sense to fear the angel of the Lord, you would do well to not underestimate such angels capabilities in their fallen state…

  109. Jeff,

    Have you read “The Nephilim Controversy“?

    You wrote:

    Jesus states the Angels of God IN HEAVEN [do not] marry. He never says they cannot perform sex: Jesus is talking ONLY about Resurrected people in this passage. Likewise in His example He is ALSO ONLY referring to Righteous Angels who stayed in their first abode in context. See Jude 6 as crossed referenced with 2 Cor 5:2. Habitation and Abode are the same greek word. What we humans are aspiring to have- our habitation from heaven (our resurrection bodies)is what the fallen angels left who are now in chains. They left their first estate. Jude speaks to this at the time of Noah and even ties it to Sodom and Gomorrah as well. Peter speaks to this. Genesis speaks to this. By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word of truth is confirmed.

    If the angels in heaven (the righteous angels) are able to perform sex and Jesus said that the righteous (saved human beings) will be like them in heaven, it means that they too will be able to perform sex but won’t be allowed to get married. This is nothing else but the doctrine of the devil and his Antichrist (1 Timothy 4:1-3).

    You don’t seem to know much about sex and its purpose. Allow me to inform you. Sex, genitals, sperm, ovaries, child bearing birth, matrix, and offspring all have one thing in common and that is to perpetuate humankind on earth because no one lives eternally on earth. In heaven this will no more be necessary because the righteous will be like the angels in heaven – i.e. live eternally. Their resurrected bodies will no longer be subjected to death because of sin.

    Do you really believe Jesus would have created angelic beings with a capacity to perform sex (an act of which the main purpose it is to produce offspring) and yet forbade them to marry?

    No my friend, you are the one who is being highly presumptuous. To suggest that Jesus’ resurrected body has the very same organs as his earthly body, is not only presumptuous it is highly dangerous. It suggests that He too is capable of having sex but lives a life of celibacy in heaven. It borders on sheer blasphemy.

    I thought Calvinism was the dumbest doctrine but I have since changed my mind. It is the second dumbest doctrine. The dumbest is the Nephilim theory.

  110. jacob says:

    Nephilim not in the Ark? Some people even don’t see their
    own neighbour! Hiding places maybe? And why not survivors? Even out of the great tribulation the worst period of time there Will be survivors! And Jesus himself quoted after questions about the endtimes :who can be saved then? / Everything is possible by God himself.

  111. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Jacob

    You kidding right? What part of the bible don’t you understand? And I don’t mean that in a nasty way at all. Have you read this compelling article that Thomas wrote on the Nephilim, The Nephilim Controversy I suggest you do read it, you don’t have too but I sincerely suggest you do.

  112. jacob says:

    Dear Deborah.
    Many Will be speechless! If the real wedding take place.
    How get the one without weddingclothes inside?
    We don’t regconize them. In the last days the difference between good and evil
    will be hard to see. Only the invitor knows.
    Let us be well prepared.

  113. Adam says:

    I know that scripture is the true word of God. I have seen a ufo along with 1000 of people in Tinley Park 2004. Its all satan and the government. What better way to cause absolute chaos than in alien invasion and martial law to start the nwo. Smoke and mirrors. Gods word is true 100%

  114. Adam,

    Indeed, God’s Word is 100% true but it never mentions the existence of UFO’s

    In another post you mentioned your addiction to drugs. Drugs do in fact cause you to hallucinate and see strange things – even so-called UFO’s

    We are very happy to hear that God saved you and delivered you from all those things you were addicted to.

  115. Cathy says:

    Well with so much deception I think Jacob is one of the best teachers I have come across, of course he says the same things at conferences and talks, but then he is teaching a lot of people you would not show a film at a cinema then change the script each time just coz your showing it many times over ! he may come across loud at times but time is running short and he needs to get the message across. Instead of all you gifted teachers slagging each other off all the time ( no-one is interested in that ) why don’t you all come together and use your gifts to preach and teach for the good. Time is short the world is falling apart your not all right all of the time Including Jacob but at least he is honest and admits he along with others will be judged more harshly than the rest of us. so get along and admit with Humility and grace your errors (As I have seen Jacob do many times ) then we will all have a fair chance .

  116. Cathy,

    Indeed, time is short and therefore we need to warn people against those who teach heresy, no matter how good the teachers are. If Prasch was honest he would at least have admitted in public that his teaching on the Nephilim is heretic.

    We would be happy to admit in public our doctrinal errors if you could point them out to us one by one. So please go ahead and do so.

    The Nephilim concoction demeans the unique incarnation of Jesus Christ.

  117. S.E. Brown wrote,

    I’ve ALWAYS believed that the fallen angels, called “watchers”(“sons of God”), TRESPASSED the boundaries God had placed on them, and did indeed take from among human women(“the daughters of men”) WIVES for themselves, and that CHILDREN were born of these unions:

    Gen 6:4 ” There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

    **If THIS^^^ were NOT TRUE, then the Bible would say:”…when the SONS of MEN came in unto the DAUGHTERS of MEN, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”**

    NO! God makes a POINT here, one which captures the attention of any serious student of His Word! HE says that there were GIANTS in those days, and after, because of the union of fallen angels and human woman.

    There were not only giants in those days. There are many giants today. Are they the offspring of cross breeding between humans and demons? You must be joking.

    Have you ever thought that the word “giants” do not refer to supernatural physical size but rather to a metaphor or a symbol to describe the moral fiber of a person? Surely you must have heard metaphoric sayings like “He was a giant of a man”, “He was a giant among men”, and “He is a giant in his field”. In fact the phrase “mighty men which were of old, men of renown” strengthens the notion that it refers rather to a metaphor than to supernatural physical size. The idea that it refers to supernatural physical size comes from the infamous uninspired gnostic book “The Book of Enoch” which alleges that the giants in those days were 450 feet tall. Come on, are you so naive and gullible to believe a lie like this? Where do lies come from? Allow me to remind you – John 8:44.

    The giants in Genesis 6 were normal human beings who were exceptionally brutal, brutish and cruel. When the Bible speaks of Nimrod being a mighty hunter before the Lord, it simply means that he did not only hunt animals but also human beings whom he hunted and slaughtered like animals. Everyone feared him and in this sense he was a man of renown – of ill-repute. Everyone new him or new of him. In fact, Strongs translates the word for “mighty hunter”(gibbôr gibbôr) in Genesis 10:9 as “Intensive from the same as H1397; powerful; by implication warrior, tyrant: – champion, chief, X excel, GIANT, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.” (Emphasis added). In the very same way Nephilim describes the moral fiber of a bully or tyrant – giant. (Strongs).

    What do you mean by “trespassed the boundaries God had placed on them?” The Bible doesn’t say this. It says they left their first estate (abode). Do you mean the fallen angels, prior to their fall had the ability to marry, have sex with women and produce children but that God forbade them to marry, just like the holy angels who allegedly are now presently in heaven? (Matthew 22:30). They are able to get married but are not given in marriage, something like – they can marry but they are never allowed to be led down the isle to get married? Rubbish!

  118. angel says:

    That’s correct “Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Giants (Nephilim). The ‘Mighty Men of Renown’ are the Gibborim created by the Watchers when they left their heavenly abode and came down to the daughters of men as recorded in Genesis Chapter 6:4 of the Old Testament. They are half breeds, angelic hybrids, the Titans.

    NEPHILIM HYBRIDS & ANGELS – BOOK OF ENOCH – ORIGIN OF DEMONS & GIANTS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YinCWgp8IU&list=PLV7Wy_Z8JeGhbeJAtFKQNn-a3cPkpB9Kw

    When fallen angels shape-shift into a form of human being they can have intercourse but not without some aberrant genetic changes. The union of these beasts with humans produced children that were different in many ways. The first apparent difference was that they developed giantism. They were giants or Nephilim. Og the King of Bashan had a bed that was 13 to 15 feet long; and Goliath was 6 cubits tall (9 feet). The second aberration was that they had six fingers and six toes… “The aberrant genetic tendencies of the Nephilim were unfortunately cloned into the D.N.A. of mankind. According to the Bible, only Noah escaped this genetic intervention at the time. There are no records of these perverse tendencies prior to the intervention of the Watchers. These dormant genetic tendencies still surface today at times in different people … The Watchers are a guardian class of angels that were assigned to watch over the earth and protect mankind from just this sort of thing happening.

    Jesus said, “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (Matthew 24:37). How were the days of Noah? They were violent and according to 2 Peter verse 2 these are the days that the angels fell and were judged. According to Jude 6 these are the days that the angels fell and were chained in Tartarus deep in the earth.

  119. angel wrote:

    When fallen angels shape-shift into a form of human being they can have intercourse but not without some aberrant genetic changes. The union of these beasts with humans produced children that were different in many ways. The first apparent difference was that they developed giantism.

    I can see that you have no idea whatsoever what constitutes a marriage between a man and a woman so that it may be recognized a a genuine marriage. I advise you to go and learn what a marriage is and then you may come back to debate here like a grown-up adult.

    Moreover, you don’t seem to know what sin is. If you had known you would never have said such a stupid thing like, “The Watchers are a guardian class of angels that were assigned to watch over the earth and protect mankind from just this sort of thing happening” unless, of course “this sort of thing” is not sin.

  120. ET says:

    I would truly advice you all to read the txt of genesis in Hebrew and then in the sept (can’t spell it!) Greek translation before you make up your mind on this subject. If I was to translate my native tongue to English you would not get some many things that I will be forced to find the closest words or sayings that will not do the original meaning justice, the term sons of God means different things depending on where it is found, you cannot see that in English but you will be able to see it in Greek and Hebrew. Nephilim and demons are not the same. Rather than argue with people, I would encourage independent research, your English translation is not enough, you must read it as it was written and through the miracle of the internet you can do that now or even buy the means to do that now.

  121. ET,

    I have one very simple question to ask you. Here goes.

    What constitutes a marriage? What does it involve other than the fact that it must be a male and a female?

  122. Ferg says:

    We may read different books and articles on different subjects and topics. Most of whom will try to prove that their’s is right. Well it’s nothing new. We must be wise like the BEREANS (Acts 17)

  123. Reading books is OK but you must always test what the author/s say and write against the Word of God. The Word of God is supposed to be your yardstick to determine truth and not the books written by men. Why? Here’s the answer.

    All scripture [and not all books written by men] is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Ti 3:16).

    YOu haven’t told us whether you believe in the Nephilim the way Jacob Prasch and Chuck Missler do.

  124. Cindy M. says:

    I am so frustrated with Christians having their ears tickled, but know nothing of Scripture, too lazy to read Scripture, and have no Hebrew/Greek understanding. They do not test the spirits, they follow after false prophets. When they teach this kind of ‘doctrine’ they bring ridicule on themselves, people listening to this teaching woven in with the message of salvation wander off, thinking all Christians are mad, or stupid.

    Christians are the laziest of people, willing to listen to any teaching, thinking it’s from the Bible. Totally illiterate. People also like Trey Smith are just…plain…crazy. Everything these folks teach/preach takes away from the message of salvation. People even believe it’s taught in the Bible because Jesus said ‘as in the days of Noah …’

    Thank you for this. I appreciate your time on debunking this stupid myth.

  125. Hi Cindy M. Thankyou for your comment.

    You may be interested to know that I am busy writing another article (in the form of a slideshow) on the Nephilim which I hope to post in this week. It would be the first time, as far as I know, that an article will appear on this site in a slideshow format.

    Greetings
    Tom

  126. Cindy Felice says:

    Hi just wondering if when Jesus specifies it is the Angels in HEAVEN that don’t marry, etc may this preclude the fallen angels. So many wwonderful saints, Henry Ironsides, George Mac Donald etc. believed The sons of God were fallen angels. Great saints on both sides of the issue and none of these saints were “stupid” or deserve name calling. We’ll see shortly, yes. God bless , Cindy F

  127. Dear Cindy

    You said “Great saints on both sides of the issue and none of these saints were “stupid” or deserve name calling. ”

    Well for starters Cindy, no one here from DTW called any one stupid. If you read the comments carefully you will see that.

    The Nephilim story is being pushed to unsuspecting Christians as false teachers are getting Christians involved in reading the Book of Enoch and taking that to be factual and scriptural – and this is leading Christians into other occult teachings.

    Do you believe what the Book of Enoch says?

    Please explain to me how a normal sized human woman marries not just has sex but marries a demonic spirit in holy matrimony? And then gives birth to GIANT babies?

    Please see all articles on Nephilim here

  128. Cindy Felice says:

    I wasn’t implying DtW was name calling but the comments were pretty carnal. I confess I don’t fully understand how it all happened, but I can’t understand the Trinity or other great Bible doctrines in my mortal mind either. How do angels assume human bodies that we can entertain them unawares. We see through the glass darkly, yes. Just saying There are great men of God on both sides of this issue and no I’ve never read the book of Enoch . Have looked at Josephes ( not the best speller) and Macabees to shed some light on history. Never for doctrine. Blessings Cindy F

  129. Cindy Felice

    I am so happy to meet you. You are the first person I have ever come across who is able to discern the difference between a carnal and a spiritual comment. How about you writing one for us so that we may know what a “spiritual comment” really looks like.

    And while you are at it, please tell us what is so dark about this comment that you cannot understand it.

    Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Mat 22:29-30)

    Have you noticed that Jesus spoke of the power of God and not the power of holy angels, fallen angels, demons or the devil? Surely you must know that God alone is able to create something out of nothing and therefore He alone is able to change spiritual beings into mortal human beings who are able to get married, have sex and produce children, if, of course, it were true that the fallen angels suddenly became like human beings. Or did the fallen angels just assume human bodies of their own accord, making them equal to God who alone is able to create things? In that case, you are suggesting that God is not the only true God of the Bible but that there are also other gods who are equally adept to create things. Or do you think God was the One who suddenly decided to create fallen angels with human bodies so that they may commit their horrendous sin of marrying and making little babies the size of the Empire State building? In that case, you will be blaspheming the Holy Spirit by suggesting that God is the author of all sin. I’m NOT saying you have committed the unpardonable sin. I’m saying that one who suggests that God is the author of sin is dangerously close to it.

    Another thing! To say that there are great men of God on both sides of the issue is very dangerous. You cannot have men of God on both sides of the issue. If that had been so, you may as well refer to some of the worst heretical groups in existence and say that they too have men of God on their side. Either the one is telling the truth and the other a lie. Men of God are supposed to speak the truth, not lies. Where do lies come from, Cindy? Well, I’m sure you know that God the Creator of all things said,

    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. (Joh 8:44-45)

  130. Dear Cindy

    You said “I confess I don’t fully understand how it all happened, but I can’t understand the Trinity or other great Bible doctrines in my mortal mind either.”

    Do you think God would say the following to you, yes you if He thought He would write a book that no one can understand?

      2 Timothy 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

    You said “We see through the glass darkly, yes”

    No we do not see through a glass darkly. People who don’t want to understand what the Bible has to say say this. You are implying that the Bible is incomplete and incapable of teachings us the full truth and nothing but the truth. The bible says:

      1 Corinthians 13:9-12
      9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    This does not mean that we now only know part truths or have to guess what the truth is. It means that at the time the Apostles (while they had the gift of prophecy, while they were penning scripture down) they only knew in part or certain things, but as time went by they were taught more and more by the Holy Spirit and the full truth of what we need to know became fully known in what we have today and for the last few hundred years – THE BIBLE.

      2 Peter 1:20-21
      20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    You said “Have looked at Josephes ( not the best speller) and Macabees to shed some light on history”

    So it’s true! You can read and understand books. :nod: Put those books aside and read and study your bible which is the final authority on ALL THINGS.

      2 Timothy 3:16
      16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    The bible is our armour against false teaching. If you don’t take the time to understand the bible you will be deceived.

      Ephesians 6:13
      13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
  131. Cindy Felice says:

    Hi Deborah and Tom. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I was saved at age 27 and will turn 66 this month. I’ve been so blessed to be able to study His infallible revelation for nearly 40 years. By nature I’m very shy but I believe the Lord gifted me with teaching and have been able to teach in two Christian schools. He has also allowed me to teach numerous women and Childrens ministries. (Don’t think ever taught on Gen 6) I realize no commentator is infallable but have enjoyed some like J Vernon MaGee over the years. He believes as you do. He said in his commentary on Gen 6 that if you believe the Sons of God are fallen angels you are in good company, but if you want to be right believe as I do. Great sense of humor :) One of his mentors that he well respected, Henry Ironsides believes the sons of God are fallen angels.
    Both of my children nearly lost their lives serving their country. My husband of 45 years is dying of stage 4 cancer. I really don’t know how people get through the trials of life in this fallen world without the blessed hope and fellowship with our LORD.
    I find it interesting that the deranged men of Sodoom wanted to have relations with the 2 angels that spent the night with Lot.
    My family was able to visit my children when they were serving in Germany. My dad and husband had to stoop way down to get in the doorways of the older buildings. They told us humans have gotten a lot bigger overall in the last few hundred years. I think the evil deeds of Genesis could of happened over hundreds of years as well. The results would be a lot more dramatic if genetic manipulation was involved.
    Also, if Seths line stayed Godly why would they be destroyed by the flood. I do agree we must all keep our armour on in these last days where deception abounds. May the Holy Spirit guide us into His truth, Blessings Cindy Felice

  132. Cindy Felice,

    I can see you really want to believe as YOU do and NOT as the Bible teaches. I can also see it matters very little how much I tell you that GOD alone has the awesome power to create things and NOT angels, (either holy or fallen) until the cows come home, and yet you still won’t believe. And now you want to validate the abominable doctrine of fallen angels having married earthly women with the equally abominable genetic manipulation nonsense. And of course, you would find it interesting that the sodomites in Sodom wanted to have sex with two angels as if that gives you absolute proof that humans and angels can have relations. I would like to suggest that you read your Bible properly before you come to any conclusions with regard to the Nephilim.

    And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly, and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house, and he made them a feast and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came into thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.(Gen 19:1-5)

    Note the words ” angels,” and the two referrals to “men.” The men (‘ĕnôsh) of Sodom did not ask Lot where the angels were who entered his home but “Where are the MEN . . .” (‘îysh). “‘Îysh” is a contracted and more dignified form of “‘ĕnôsh” but nevertheless it does not in the slightest denote angels but MEN. What does that mean? It means that the angels so perfectly matched the outward appearance of a mortal man that the homosexuals in Sodom failed to perceive them as angels. They thought they were men like them.

    Who says Seth’s lineage were godly when the Flood came?

  133. Femi Fenojo says:

    I myself have exegetical reservation about the Nephilim. However, your opening sentence to this article was a turn off. You said concerning Jacob Prasch “In practically every video of Jacob Prasch’ and in practically every book he writes the chances of Prasch mentioning the disturbing false teaching of the ‘demonic’ Nephilim is almost certain.” I have listen to Jacob Prasch and Chuck Missler extensively. I do not always agree with them (and by the way they both encourage you to search the scripture yourself, and to disagree with them on exegetical ground.) Your opening assertion is quite bogus and false. Thank you

  134. Dear Femi Fenojo

    I will remove that statement just for you, how about that? :up: But it’s still true, he does mention his Nephilim theory in practically every video I have watched.

    You said “I have listen to Jacob Prasch and Chuck Missler extensively. I do not always agree with them (and by the way they both encourage you to search the scripture yourself, and to disagree with them on exegetical ground.)

    Now that dear Femi is bogus and false. I did an article here. Where I pointed out some exegetical faults from Jacob Prasch concerning the Rapture and it’s timing and his Midrash teaching. Well, not only did I get a backlash from hell from Jacob Prasch himself, I was personally attacked, degraded, demoralized, lied about, threatened and slandered so badly that anyone would have crawled into a hole and stayed there. Fortunately I did not back down. Evidence is on DTW for you to view. Read all articles on Jacob Prasch here:

  135. LeonP says:

    The angels IN HEAVEN are not given in marriage, fair enough.
    The angels who visited Lot, however ( and Abraham with the Lord ), were in human form and had a meal
    Gen 18:8 “…and they did eat..”….before going on to Sodom.
    They are referred to as men, and had the appearance of men….to Lot, and to those reprobates in Sodom.

    Therefore, our experience in Scripture regarding angels is not limited to the reference in Mark 12:25 and equivalent in Matthew.
    Instead, let’s limit what we understand by what we read in these references:
    ….the angels IN HEAVEN, it is said…
    Unlike those who were seen in Sodom, and in Luke 24:4….” two men in shining garments….”

    Therefore, whether or not one believes that the “sons of God” were fallen angels, one cannot use the text of Mark 12:25 to argue against the Nephilim hypothesis.
    Justsaying

  136. Hi LeonP

    First of all, the angels who appeared to Lot were, in fact, angels from heaven (and therefore Mark 12:25 may be applied to them) who, as you admitted, appeared with Jesus Christ (also in human form) to Abraham in the plains of Mamre (Genesis 18). You seem to overlook your own admittance that they appeared in the form of men and had the appearance of men. It clearly proves that they were not in essence men who had bodies of flesh and blood like us. They merely had the appearance of men. I am sure Jesus Christ, who is God and equal with the Father and the Holy Ghost in all their characteristics, is able to transform invisible beings into visible beings who look like men but are not made of flesh and blood like us so that they may marry and have sex with women. Do you agree? If you don’t you will be downgrading Jesus to something lesser than God, and you wouldn’t want to do that, now would you?

    Moreover, the notion that the angels who appeared to Lot and Abraham were able to marry and have sex with women in their human form is a downright denial of the unique incarnation of Jesus Christ. You know as well as I do that when a man and a woman marry they become one flesh. Did you notice that? – ONE FLESH! It means that both man and woman must be made of FLESH and not something that looks like or has the appearance of FLESH. That is precisely why Jesus said that the angels in heaven neither marry nor are given in marriage because their substance (make-up) is not flesh, although they are able to appear in the form of flesh (man), by the magnanimous creative powers of Jesus Christ, unless He is not God and unable to do something like that.

    I suggest that next time when you pray you say to Jesus, “Jesus, you know, your statement in Mark 12:25 is true but not altogether the truth. Therefore, our experience in Scripture regarding angels is not limited to the reference in Mark 12:25 and equivalent in Matthew. Instead, let’s limit what we understand by what we read in other references. Sorry Jesus, but that’s how I understand your truth. It is only half a truth. AMEN!”

  137. LeonP says:

    Tom,
    The snarky comment in your last paragraph is unnecessary, and unbecoming, brother to brother.

    Firstly, Angels IN HEAVEN, is what our Lord Jesus said.I repeat…IN.
    Secondly, as it pertains to bodily function, the Angels who visited Abraham with the Lord, ATE A MEAL.

    As to your reference to FLESH…have you heard the expression STRANGE FLESH.

    Have you not read Hebrews 13:2…..

    The Incarnation of the Lord in the FLESH was UNIQUE in that he was BORN by a woman, a Virgin, and conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    Fully God, and Fully Man.
    Before that, there are various other Theophanies, including the one referrred to in Genesis 18.

  138. Dear LeonP

    You are not getting it. The angles who appeared as men ate because God gave them the ability to do so, just as God gave them the ability to appear as human beings. God did not give Satan and his demonic fallen angels the ability to transform into humans, or eat or have actual sex and procreate and create human children, let alone stand at an altar in holy matrimony and take human wives for themselves who then bore them children who grew up to be over 400ft tall.

    Just to let you know. (Heb 13:2 [KJV]) “Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.” has been widely abused by many who claim that the ‘angels’ mentioned in this verse are heavenly angels and not merely Christians bringing forth a gospel message. A close family member of mine would never let anyone donate money to a homeless person, she had to do it herself, just in case the homeless person was an angel and she would of course get another point towards her name in the heavenly book of life.

    G32 ἄγγελος aggelos (an’-ğe-los) n.
    1. a messenger.
    [from aggello “to bring tidings” (possibly derived from G71)]
    G71 ἄγω ago (a’-ğō) v.

    You said “The Incarnation of the Lord in the FLESH was UNIQUE in that he was BORN by a woman, a Virgin, and conceived by the Holy Spirit.”

    I’m confused, you say Jesus was unique in that he was born by a woman…pray tell, how were Nephilim supposedly born? And who created them in the womb? God?

    Strange flesh is in direct reference to homosexuality and fornication, not trying to have sex with angels. If you read the verse below it’s clear that the whole of Sodom and Gomorrha and the other cities around them that were destroyed by God did not all have men running after angels trying to have sex with them. It was purely because of fornication and homosexuality.

    (Jude 1:7 [KJV]) “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Tell me:

    1) Do you believe any portion of the Book of Enoch to be true?
    2) Do you believe in Serpent Seed teaching: that Satan had sex with Eve in the garden of Eden; that Cain and Abel were twins, however Cain was born of the seed of Satan, Abel was the son of Adam.

  139. LeonP says:

    Hi Deborah,

    I agree with you that the STRANGE FLESH reference is not conclusively “angelic” flesh…..i should not have included that.
    It is probably a lot more likely that is merely “forbidden” flesh. Granted.

    My reference to the Unique Incarnation of our Lord ( which was something raised by Thomas, i am merely answering it ), was to demonstrate the difference between OT theophanies, and Angelic beings in human form.
    One cannot imply that merely because one MAY hold to an opinion that some angels referenced in the Scriptures, had human form which allowed them to eat a meal, as clearly demonstrated in Genesis 18:8, that this in some way means that the Unique Incarnation of our Lord, is demeaned or devalued in any way.
    I thought that i would just clarify that.

    I hold to Orthodoxy when it comes to matters of the Canon, just to be clear.
    Apocryphal works are just that…Apocrypha.
    No, i do not believe in the Serpent Seed teachings.

    My initial point was just one of the use of the Mark 12:25 reference to negate the Nephilim teaching that so many believe that Genesis 6 refers to.
    Your view may be a valid one, and may even be the correct one, but using the Mark 12:25 reference in support of it, just weakens it, in my opinion. That’s all.

  140. LeonP

    Why are you so obstinate to believe what Jesus says in Mark 12:25? I am not denying the theophanies in the Old Testament. I am merely trying to open your eyes to the fact that it is absolutely necessary to believe every word Jesus said. He did not say the angels in heaven, when they appear in human form, are unable to eat. He said they do not marry and are not given in marriage. Full stop. Why do you capitalize “IN HEAVEN?’ Are you suggesting that demons (fallen angels) are able to marry earthly women, have sex with them and spawn little kiddies (oh sorry, I meant to say grotesque giants) just because they are not ANGELS IN HEAVEN? If so, then you are degrading and demeaning the incarnation of Jesus Christ. You say:

    The Incarnation of the Lord in the FLESH was UNIQUE in that he was BORN by a woman, a Virgin, and conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    Fully God, and Fully Man.
    Before that, there are various other Theophanies, including the one referrred to in Genesis 18.

    Are you saying that the theophanies in the Old Testament differ from Jesus’ incarnation only in one sense, and that is that his incarnation was unique in that He was born of a woman, a virgin? Again, I ask you, were these theophanies made of flesh, blood and bone?

  141. You accuse me of being snarky but you have no misgivings about your suggestions that Jesus lied in Mark 12:25?

  142. Dear LeonP

    Sorry about that, your comment landed in the SPAM section, I had to retrieve it…and approve it.

    Glad you don’t believe in Book of Enoch and Serpent Seed teaching.

    I said in my previous comment: “you say Jesus was unique in that he was born by a woman…pray tell, how were Nephilim supposedly born? And who created them in the womb? God?”

    Can you tell me who created the Nephilim (a ‘demonic monster’ that could never be saved by Jesus Christ) in the women’s womb? Was it God or…who?

  143. LeonP says:

    Tom,
    Read Mark like this:
    KJV: example 1
    Mar 12:25  For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
    The syntax is= angels which are in Heaven
    YLT: example 2
    Mar 12:25  for when they may rise out of the dead, they neither marry nor are they given in marriage, but are as messengers who are in the heavens.
    Syntax is = Angels who are in the Heavens.
    NIV: example 3
    Mark 12:25
    25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
    2 possible readings for NIV
    a) angels in Heaven ( as in KJV and YLT )
    b) the dead who have risen, in heaven

    If you go to the Greek text, you will see that the KJV, and the YLT are correct.
    It refers to the angels that the risen dead are being compared to, as those ( angels ) in heaven.
    If you accept that the NIV has good grammar, and the translators did not omit a comma, then the NIV also agrees with the KJV.

    Why then, is the comparison made to Angels in Heaven?
    Why not just say “like the Angels”, and leave it at that?
    Because Scripture clearly teaches that angels have not only been in Heaven, but also on earth, in the form of MEN.
    Men who even ATE A MEAL.

    So no, Tom, Jesus did not lie.
    Jesus, as usual, is being absolutely specific and correct. ( it seems unnecessary that i should say so, but since you insist on repeating the accusation against me, i am clarifying ).

  144. LeonP

    So what you are saying that fallen angels [and not the ANGELS IN HEAVEN] are once again going to marry earthly women, have sex with them and spawn giants 400 feet in height? Please clarify.

    As you know, the unbelievers are also going to be raised from the dead. Will they also be like the angels in heaven and not be given in marriage?

    You are nitpicking.

    hōs
    hoce
    Probably adverb of compound from G3739; which how, that is, in that manner (very variously used as shown): – about, after (that), (according) as (it had been, it were), as soon (as), even as (like), for, how (greatly), like (as, unto), since, so (that), that, to wit, unto, when ([-soever]), while, X with all speed.

  145. LeonP says:

    Tom,
    We are called to “nitpick”.
    “Rightfully dividing the Word of Truth”.

    You’re putting words into my mouth.
    Did i not say i do not believe in either Serpent Seed or Nephilim teaching?
    There is simply not enough Scriptural support for either.

    1. Angels in Heaven are not given in marriage
    2. believers raised from the dead will be as the Angels in 1.
    That is what the text says. EOS.

  146. Dear LeonP

    Alll righty then… Scratch/ Let’s go back to your comments shall we.

    You said “Therefore, whether or not one believes that the “sons of God” were fallen angels, one cannot use the text of Mark 12:25 to argue against the Nephilim hypothesis.”

    We are using LOGIC to debate the use of Mark 12:25. And we use this scripture to argue a very LOGICAL valid point because the ones who believe that ‘angels are able to have physical sex with women’ use this scripture to argue their point as being true!

    You said that you do not believe in Nephilim teaching, yet you say to us “Your view may be a valid one, and may even be the correct one.” In other words we may be totally wrong. How’s that?

    I asked you if you believe in the Book of Enoch, you say; “no”, and that’s great :up: however you don’t need to believe in the book of Enoch to believe that angles came down to earth and had sex with humans if one insist on studying scripture incorrectly and not using logic. You even referred to “strange flesh” as an example of this…(then ‘granted’ changed your mind…and came up with the words “forbidden” flesh).

    Then you say:

    “Did i not say i do not believe in either Serpent Seed or Nephilim teaching?
    There is simply not enough Scriptural support for either.”

    Very true, and I agree with you :nod:

    So would you agree that:

    1) It’s well to agree to the biblical fact that humans wanted to have homosexual sex with the angles who appeared in the form of men at Sodom and Gamorrha.
    2) It’s another thing all together and not biblical to say that fallen angels came to earth and took for themselves wives and had sex and made demonic children and that it will happen again in the last days.

    Just as a matter of interest, who do you follow; Jacob Prasch, Chuck Missler, both or neither?

  147. Ian says:

    Deborah
    whle you answer according to your understanding of Scripture, your interpretation also raises other questions.
    like:
    If ‘sons of God’ refers to men who have fallen from faith:
    1.Why would they still be spoken of as ‘sons of God’?
    2. Who are the ‘daughters of men'”?
    3. If you say daughters of Cain’s line, then – What do you call the dauhters of Seth’s lineage?
    4. Why then is the term ‘sons of God not used to describe Abraham – the friend of God? Moses the man of God who spoke with God face to face? David, the man after God’s own heart?
    5. Why is the term ‘daughters of men’ not used for the Canaanites and Amorites and all the other ites in the OT?

    By the way…I don’t follow John Calvin…his ideas were in some respects not much better than those you single out here – he was not the perfect man – who is?
    “[From the Foreword to “Calvin’s Institutes, A New Compend,” page 10, Hugh T. Kerr, editor (1989)]. In a five-year period, fifty-eight people were executed and seventy-six were banished because of Calvin’s straightforward nature….. He had written to a friend that if Servetus ever came to Geneva, “I will never let him depart alive, if I have any authority.” [William R. Estep, “Renaissance and Reformation”; pages 221-248 deal with Calvin’s contribution to the Protestant Reformation.]”

    peace to all those in Christ Jesus
    ….something that JP or CM never did.

  148. Dear Ian

    You accuse me of being like John Calvin a serial murderer because I don’t believe in the Nephilim teaching? Really? How on earth do you come to that heinous conclusion.

  149. Sorry to jump in here uninvited.

    Ian, what do you mean by “Why would they (those who have fallen from faith) still be spoken of as sons of God?” Where does it say unbelievers are sons of God? You must remember one thing, the terms “son” and “sons” in the spiritual sense of the word does not portray the difference between male and female entities, such as “sons and daughters.” The terms “son” and “sons” are generic terms to portray the most intimate relationship between God and his saved creatures. In that way females are also called “sons of God.” Proof of this is in Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” Are only men led by the Spirit of God? My wife and Deborah are led by the Spirit of God. Are they not also the “sons of God?” We must always discern spiritual things spiritually and not carnally. Failing to do that leads to all kinds of horrendous deceptions. Please bear that in mind when you read God’s Word.

  150. Thanks Tom for jumping in there, much appreciated.

  151. Ian, you wrote:

    “By the way…I don’t follow John Calvin…his ideas were in some respects not much better than those you single out here – he was not the perfect man – who is?”

    Does one need to be perfect to know the truth? What you are saying is, “John Calvin wasn’t perfect. So, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to spread his heresies like wildfire.” What does God say?

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:1-5)Ian,

  152. Ian says:

    Deborah
    I am not accusing you personally of anything. You misunderstand me.

    …and I am NOT saying whay you ascribe to me – “What you are saying is, “John Calvin wasn’t perfect. So, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to spread his heresies like wildfire.”
    I am not saying that – you are putting words in my mouth. Perhaps you should have asked me if I was saying that rather than assume it to be so.

    It may well have been an error – assumption on my part to speak of John Calvin because I saw Calvinism in tha tabs at the top, and thought that you folk were of that persuasion. If I assumed wrongly I am sorry. I should have exaimned your site a bit more. It was remiss of me. please forgive me if I was in error.

    If I am wrong in assuming your position to be calvinistic after the ilks of John C, I retract my statement.

  153. Ian says:

    Tom
    you ask ….”Ian, what do you mean by “Why would they (those who have fallen from faith) still be spoken of as sons of God?” Where does it say unbelievers are sons of God? ”

    If you say that the ‘sons of God’ phrase in Genesis 6 refers to men of faith and that is how many people interpret that phrase – as men of faith; – and the context implies males and not females, it was males who took to themselves daughters and offspring resulted, – then according to that view, it has to be men of faith who took daughters of men ( Cain) according to that particular view which I do not agree with. (‘sons of God’ can only be born a second time since Christ has come. )

    I understand full well Tom that children of the living God through faith in Jesus Christ are all heirs of the kingdom of God – joint heirs with Christ – male believers and female believers. In Christ as far as relationship with Father God goes , there is neither male or female.
    But we are talking pre Christ – pre Flood.

    And so, with respect to the identity of Gen 6 “sons of God” which is mentioned twice, I am asking …
    if the sons of God were men of faith – (if that is what you folk are teaching), then, by mixing with, intermarrying with ungodly daughters, they too would have gone back to ungodliness, which means that they would have ‘left the faith’.

    Perhaps I will refer to James 5 –
    Jas 5:19 If anyone among you goes astray from the truth, brothers, and anyone turns him back,
    Jas 5:20 know that the one turning a sinner from the error of his way will save the soul from death, and will hide a multitude of sins.
    Here James is speaking about a brother (sister) in Christ who goes back into sin. And in doing so, James calls that one – the brother (sister) in Christ who has turned back- gone away form Christ – a “sinner”. Sinners are not saints. You can’t mix darkness and light.

    But James goes on to say that if another brother (sister) in Christ turns that sinner back to Christ, then he has saved rescued that soul from death (spiritual death).

    The old testament says similar things – eg Ezekiel 33
    So the principle I think would have to apply to anyone in the Genesis 6 period. In the OT it was much more severe for those who disobeyed God, who rebelled against His word.

    ….can you see now what I was trying to say? I hope so.

  154. Dear Ian

    I was thinking about you this morning, and I thought, ‘Gosh he thinks we are Calvinist, that’s why….’ We are not Calvinist at all, nor Arminianian (which is Methodist, Jacob Prasch is Arminianian he follows John Wesley (est. Methodist church) and George Whitefield (who is a Calvinist).

    So Ian I am sorry too and I accept your apology. :smile:

  155. Hi Ian. You wrote:

    “But James goes on to say that if another brother (sister) in Christ turns that sinner back to Christ, then he has saved rescued that soul from death (spiritual death).”

    NO, that is not what James is saying. Do you realize what you are saying? Let me break is down for you.

    1) Jesus is our only Saviour but He is not able to keep us saved (John 10:28-30 is a lie).
    2) Therefore, those who err from the truth (this is what James says and not “fall away from the faith”), lose their salvation and slip away from eternal spiritual life into eternal spiritual death
    3) But, never fear when other sinners are near, because, where Jesus failed to keep them saved, the other sinners are able to bring them back from eternal spiritual death with a single prayer.

    I will answer the rest of your comment as soon as you repent of what you suggested here.

    . . . can you see now what I am trying to say? I hope so. The Nephilim doctrine is “to err from the truth” (James 5:20), by the way.

  156. Hi Ian

    What then did you mean by “Calvin is not perfect.”

  157. Ian says:

    Tom
    first off; when I said Calvin was not perfect, that is what I meant – not perfect.
    The following site points this out

    But John has gone and the matter is with the Lord.
    …..
    Do you believe in “once saved always saved”? I do, but not in the common way it is used.

    Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. The Lord Jesus who is my Shepherd is also my Light and my Salvation – Psalm 27:1 I believe that.
    He Himself is our Saviour. I believe that.
    Jesus (John 15) tells us that we are to abide in the vine – in Him, and in His word. Jesus makes it plain that those who do not so abide will be cut off and wither and die and be burned.

    Many disciples turned back from following Jesus, and He asked His veru close disciples (John 6) “Will you also go away?” They had a choice. The others WERE disciples of Jesus but they did not continue in His word – they chose not to continue. They could have, but did not.

    ….as to my comments re James:
    James speaks about a brother restoring a brother who has turned away from the truth. James calls that brother who turns away a sinner. He does not call the one who turns him back a sinner.
    I am not saying as you are insist that I am, that “other sinners are able to bring them back …”
    James does not say another sinner can turn the ‘sinner’ back – and neither do I. It is you who has written those words.

    Perhaps you are forgetting that those who are joined to Christ by faith in Him are members of His body. And as such are operating on earth as His body and are able by His Holy Spirit to help a brother or sister this way or that way – and such works are seen as Christ Himself doing it.
    This is why Christ has set in the assembly teachers, etc, to be His hands and feet and ears and eyes and mouth on earth to instruct others in His stead. This is the plain meaning of being a member of His body.

    Jesus said as much as you have done it to one of the least of these you have done it to Me. We are brought into the Kingdom of God, and while still in clay vessels of the Master may be used in His hands. When Jesus worked on earth doing His Father’s will it was the Father who was working. When He spoke the words of His Father, it was the Father speaking.
    On the other hand – Jesus said of the Jews that they were going about to kill Him, they were doing the works of their father the devil – and thus were instruments of evil in his hand. The devil was working through them.
    So when a brother who HASN’T gone back from following Jesus turns one who has gone back – it is the Lord Himself working through that one, otherwise he can do nothing.

    Those who repent and follow Jesus Christ having received Him as the Scripture says, – even Him who is everlasting Life – John 14:6; 1 John 1:2; 5:20, receive His life, and enter into His salvation. They have been born from above. They are joined with Christ.
    But as such we do not loose our capacity to make decisions. God has not stripped us of the power of choice – even to do evil. We will be tempted by the Tempter till we die. We must choose.- persevere in spite of it.
    Yet God will make a way for us to escape so that we can endure – resist the temptation. But we have to resist the temptation by our own volition depending on the power and grace of God to do so.

    We can continue to follow after Christ Jesus – continue in doing His commands by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is a day by day walk.
    Jesus told us not just to ‘hear’ but to do. Those who DO the will of His Father in Heaven are the family of Jesus – Matt 12:50

    We are still able to sin – because we have not yet received a glorified body like Christ’s. We are still able to go back into sin. We are still able to entertain an evil heart of unbelief-
    “Watch, brothers, lest perhaps there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief in withdrawing from the living God.” Heb 3:12. This is not a singular warning; there are many.

    If it was impossible for someone to draw away from the Living God, then the dozens of warnings to believers would never have needed to be said. They would be meaningless; Jesus did not waste His words, neither did His apostles as they wrote Scripture.
    This does not in any way negate the power of Jesus Christ to keep us;- but it is dependent on our continuing to walk humbly with Jesus. We are not robots Tom.

    Shall we continue or go back into sin that the grace of God may abound – NO. Rom 6.

    Jesus Christ is the only Saviour for mankind. He has all power and authority both in Heaven and on earth.
    He is able to save to the uttermost them who draw near to God by Him, seeing He ever lives to intercede for them Hebrews 7:25
    He says IF you continue in My words THEN are you My disciples indeed and the truth will set you free. “Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in Him, If you continue in My Word, you are truly My disciples.
    And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31, 32
    The lasting and complete freedom comes through continuing with Jesus in His word. That is our choice. God does not take away our ability to choose contrary things.

    Jesus said – Whosoever believes – continues to believe, day in and day out till they breathe their last breath on earth, will has everlasting life.
    The question is not the ability or power of Jesus to keep – the question is about our willingness to continue in the truth, in the faith, in Jesus our Salvation. But Jesus does not override our own volitional power. He loves us too much to do that.

    Paul warns the churches that those brothers who go back to the Law make the grace of God of no effect. In 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5, Paul in talking to the saints, makes it very clear that those who are called thieves etc shall not inherit the kingdom of God. He is pleading with them not to go that path.
    The Scriptures are full of warnings to the godly, the saints in Christ. It was so in the old testament; it is so in the new. Nothing is to be taken for granted.
    Though we are joined to Christ in our spirit, we are individuals who can still operate in the flesh and if we do not put to death the works of flesh by the Holy Spirit’s enabling, then we are going to die (Rom 8)
    – except that God moves in His tender mercies and longsuffering to bring us back to Himself while we yet live, even through the prayers and petitions of the saints the members of Christ’s own body, and with love to draw such a one back. Nothing is too hard for the Lord.

    The question is not about God’s ability but our conscious daily surrender to Him.
    James says – “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” Jam 1:12.

    If you love Me – keep My commands – Jesus. Grace is given to overcome sin.

  158. Ian says:

    On Jacob Prasch
    I have heard a number of his messages in past years, and I have to say that JP did not speak about ‘Nephilim’ in all his sermons – teachings. Yes he has spoken on it, but to say on everyone?- uh uh. Same thing with his printed teachings – not all – not even most brothers and sisters.

    On Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35
    “In the resurrection”…”like the angels in Heaven”

    Jesus is talking about the Holy state of believers and the holy state of angels. Not the unholy state of those who followed Lucifer.
    Jesus is NOT saying in your favourite text, that on earth the saints can not marry nor are not given in marriage.
    Your constant question Tom is – Are you calling Jesus a liar?
    Jesus is not referring to earth but to Heaven brothers and sisters. You are accusing falsely on this point. Because Jesus does not address the issue of sons of God or nephilim of Gen 6 in Matthew 22:23-32, you are making false assumptions and judging others wrongly because they will not accept your false assumption.
    You may be right on every other point – but you are not without error my brother Tom.

    In Luke he says that the children of this world marry and are given in marriage.

    Whether unholy angels can do this or that on eartth is not spoken about by Jesus.
    Please don’t accuse everybody about lying, simply because they do not agree with your interpretation and your imposing a view on something that Jesus does not specifically talk about.

    If you were simply addressing the issue of whether saints can marry in Heaven – you have a sound case. How so? Because Jesus was addressing that question by the Sadducees. The Sadduscees were not wanting to to about fallen angels or nephilim. Jesus was not addressing in the text what you allege He is doing.

    It sounds to me like you are reading into the Mtthew 22 32- 32 text, which thing you rebuke others of doing. You won’t ifind any reference to what goes on – upon earth except in Luke’s version.

    Peace to all those who love the Lord Jesus in truth.

  159. Ian says:

    Deborah
    there are two Hebrew word I can find translated as stature and they both have the meaning of physical height and breadth
    Numbers 13;32

    Num 13:32 And they brought upH3318 an evil reportH1681 of the landH776 whichH834 they had searchedH8446 untoH413 the childrenH1121 of Israel,H3478 saying,H559 The land,H776 through whichH834 we have goneH5674 to searchH8446 it, is a landH776 thatH1931 eateth upH398 the inhabitantsH3427 thereof; and allH3605 the peopleH5971 thatH834 we sawH7200 inH8432 it are menH376 of a great stature.H4060

    4060 – middâh; mid-daw’; Feminine of H4055; properly extension, that is, height or breadth; also a measure (including its standard); hence a portion (as measured) or a vestment; specifically tribute (as measured): – garment, measure (-ing, meteyard, piece, size, (great) stature, tribute, wide.

    ………………
    1Sa 16:7 But the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Samuel,H8050 LookH5027 notH408 onH413 his countenance,H4758 or onH413 the heightH1364 of his stature;H6967 becauseH3588 I have refusedH3988 him: forH3588 the LORD seeth notH3808 asH834 manH120 seeth;H7200 forH3588 manH120 lookethH7200 on the outward appearance,H5869 but the LORDH3068 lookethH7200 on the heart.H3824

    6967 – qômâh; ko-maw’; From H6965; height: – X along, height, high, stature, tall.

    peace

  160. Ian

    So if we look at 1Sam 16:6 are you saying Eliab was a giant i.e, Nephilim?

    1Sam 16:6-7 (KJV) 6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD’S anointed is before him. 7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

    No Ian :nope: he was a normal human being who was of big stature (tall and probably very muscular) kinda like those men who participate in world strongest man competitions. Are you implying that all big guys with imposing statures are possibly Nephilim? :scratch:

  161. So Ian..

    You said “I have heard a number of his messages in past years, and I have to say that JP did not speak about ‘Nephilim’ in all his sermons – teachings. Yes he has spoken on it, but to say on everyone?”

    1) Is that what you are going to argue with me about? Re-read what I said in the article and quote me please. I have said in the comments section, that all the videos I watched he mentioned the Nephilim. Are you going to argue with me on this little point?

    2) Please tell me, do you believe Jacob Prasch and/or Chuck Missler (now passed away, but leaves a legacy of false teaching behind) to be a men of God? You said “Same thing with his printed teachings – not all – not even most brothers and sisters.” You call him a brother as in brother in Christ.

    3) You say John Calvin was not perfect, well if he repented before he died then he is surely in heaven with Jesus Christ, but we have no idea, and he too leaves a legacy of false teaching behind that blinds millions of people, never mind the terror he inflicted on the people of Geneva. No man is perfect, we are all sinners, but there are sinners (unbelievers) and sinners (saved by grace).

    4) I tell you what, if there were GIANTS 450 feet tall that human woman gave birth too, I would like you to please explain to me how this is medically possible.

  162. Dear Ian

    You said “Do you believe in “once saved always saved”? I do, but not in the common way it is used.”

    Oh no you don’t, you state emphatically that you can lose your salvation. You say on your website:

    “A branch on a tree once removed is no longer attached, no longer part of the tree, no longer has the life of the tree – its sap, going into it. Unless it is grafted back again it is on its way out. So this passage also has the idea of God removing someone that was firmly joined to Christ; a branch joined to the Vine, once part of the Vine.” [Emphasis added]

    Do you believe you are only saved right at the end…after you have successfully died to yourself daily and made it to the end? And Jesus says to you “Well done chap, you did it, all by yourself”.

    What a confusing paragraph in your article:

    “All these passsages plainly give warnings about the real possibility of departing from the Living God, and not entering into His eternal rest. This set of witnessses agree with the message about the Book of Life and the possible removal of names.

    There is an urgent need for a healthy view of God’s Word, both for believing and continuing in believing, and assurance and hope in the ability of God to preserve us in the faith and to enable us to walk circumspectly in the spirit on paths of righteousness and holiness, according to God’s Word. Yet, on the other hand to know the very real possibility of falling away from the faith if we allow compromise of spiritual lethargy and indifference. The promises are real, as are the warnings.”

    :dazed:

    No where do you attribute the Holy Spirit’s working in a saints life to keep a born again Christian saved, it’s the Holy Spirit who enables you to keep God’s commandments and YES we all sin daily, and we are to make an effort to die to ourselves daily and repent of our sins and change our ways, but without the Holy Spirit it’s impossible to do this. It appears like it’s all about you doing all the work, hence if you don’t keep God’s commandments you can lose your salvation.

    Hence this statement on your website:

    “Paul speaks about buffeting his body, bringing it under spiritual discipline in order to keep his flesh in line.”

  163. Dear Ian

    It appears you have commented here before, back in Feb 2016 under this article… https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/truth-sons-god-daughters-men-nephilim/ I thought I recognised your website.

  164. Hi Ian. You wrote:

    “Tom
    first off; when I said Calvin was not perfect, that is what I meant – not perfect.
    The following site points this out

    But John has gone and the matter is with the Lord.”

    Of course we are not perfect. None of us are. But that doesn’t give us the leeway to spread imperfect doctrine. Why? Because “every word of God is pure (perfect)” (Proverbs 30:5) and we dare not make it imperfect just because we are imperfect. Those who make it imperfect (like John Calvin) are guilty of the following:

    “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Gal 1:8-10)

    You wrote:

    ….as to my comments re James:
    James speaks about a brother restoring a brother who has turned away from the truth. James calls that brother who turns away a sinner. He does not call the one who turns him back a sinner.
    I am not saying as you are insist that I am, that “other sinners are able to bring them back …”
    James does not say another sinner can turn the ‘sinner’ back – and neither do I. It is you who has written those words.

    Of course you will deny what you said, and fail to answer the rest of the question whether Jesus is able to keep sinners saved or not. (John 10:27-30). Is He or is He not? Please answer the question. First you deny you said it and then go into a long discussion of how sinners are in Christ and therefore quite capable of bringing ex-Christians who have fallen from the faith back from spiritual death. I think it’s time for you to stop doing an egg dance and tell us what you mean by “common” and “uncommon.” None of the passages you discussed say that saints can lose their salvation. According to you our daily and conscious surrender to God annuls God’s ability to keep us saved. Can you prove to me that you daily and consciously live a life of perfect (100%) surrender to God? If not, then you have annulled, or at least hampered, God’s ability to keep us saved. He is able to keep us saved when we daily and consciously surrender to Him – kind of thing. That, my dear friend is a works-based salvation and already a common way of falling away from the faith

  165. Ian,

    I’m sorry but I don’t have time to waste. Goodbye. Your arguments are consistently inconsistent.

  166. Ian says:

    Tom, are you perfect in all your teaching?

  167. Dear Ian

    To answer your question you ask Tom, which him and I have already explained to you: no one is perfect as I already stated, I said “we are all sinners, but there are sinners (unbelievers) and sinners (saved by grace).“, but when we as a Christian realise we are wrong through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, we ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness for our way of thinking and change our way of thinking.

    Please answer my questions 1), 2) and 4) (especially question 4)

    By the way, you can only be saved once! You can’t be grafted in an out of the vine and then back in again according to you.

    Hebrews 6:4-6 “4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

  168. Hi Ian,

    No, I am not and that is why you should test what I am saying or writing in the light of God’s Word. However, we are also exhorted to use our minds in a sober and biblical way, and to this day your ramblings on about the Nephilim has not even been close to being rational, let alone your uncommon belief in salvific certainty. As I said, you are wasting my time.

    Please ponder these questions.

    1) Do you believe that God’s Word is perfect? Should you not, then you ought to examine yourself to see whether you are really saved. However, if you do you should be able to answer the next question.
    2) Is the Holy Spirit the spirit of Truth? Should you deny that He is, then you should examine yourself whether you are really saved. If you do, you should be able to answer the next question.
    3) Can an imperfect saint know the whole truth? Should you deny this you are saying that Jesus is a liar (There’s that naughty sentence again). Well, if you don’t then you actually are accusing Jesus of lies, because He said, “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13).

    It proves that an imperfect saint’s doctrines and teaching can and must be perfect. Is yours? I doubt it, because if you had you would never had commented anything like this –

    “On Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35
    “In the resurrection”…”like the angels in Heaven”

    Jesus is talking about the Holy state of believers and the holy state of angels. Not the unholy state of those who followed Lucifer.
    Jesus is NOT saying in your favourite text, that on earth the saints can not marry nor are not given in marriage.
    Your constant question Tom is – Are you calling Jesus a liar?
    Jesus is not referring to earth but to Heaven brothers and sisters. You are accusing falsely on this point. Because Jesus does not address the issue of sons of God or nephilim of Gen 6 in Matthew 22:23-32, you are making false assumptions and judging others wrongly because they will not accept your false assumption.
    You may be right on every other point – but you are not without error my brother Tom.

    In Luke he says that the children of this world marry and are given in marriage.

    Whether unholy angels can do this or that on eartth is not spoken about by Jesus.
    Please don’t accuse everybody about lying, simply because they do not agree with your interpretation and your imposing a view on something that Jesus does not specifically talk about.

    If you were simply addressing the issue of whether saints can marry in Heaven – you have a sound case. How so? Because Jesus was addressing that question by the Sadducees. The Sadduscees were not wanting to to about fallen angels or nephilim. Jesus was not addressing in the text what you allege He is doing.

    It sounds to me like you are reading into the Matthew 22 32- 32 text, which thing you rebuke others of doing. You won’t find any reference to what goes on – upon earth except in Luke’s version.”

    Do you really think I am so stupid to think that Jesus was saying “that on earth the saints can not marry nor given in marriage.” Oh, I’m sorry in my conscious 60 or more years of my life on earth, I must admit that I have never, never seen anyone getting married because Jesus said humans of flesh and blood cannot marry or are not given in marriage on earth. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Hadn’t you done so, I would never have known that Jesus said humans never get married nor are given in marriage on earth. Think of all the silly dads who had given their daughters in marriage on a beautiful sunny day on earth who must have been totally oblivious of the fact that humans do not marry on earth.

    And, thanks also for reminding me that He was not speaking of those who followed Satan. Your revelations are a real blessing to me. I never knew that. Let’s assume He did. Would that have changed matters? Oh, I see, if He had referred to them, He would have used a classic example of angels who indeed do get married and are given in marriage on earth because the fallen angels who are now bound in Tartarus know how to change their spiritual forms into humans with genitals and the lot so that they may marry and have gigantic kiddies with earthly women. Wow, a miracle!!!!

    Oh, and I also never knew that Jesus never used the word in Matthew 22:23-32. But he does use the term “marriage” (“took them wives”) doesn’t He? So, I can easily use Matthew 22:30 to prove that angels do not marry or are given in marriage in heaven and therefore easily disprove the Nephilim doctrine.

    Your semantics to say “Jesus never said this or that in this or that verse” is a wobbly kind of hermeneutics when it is glaringly obvious that He does not say this or that. That’s why your statement “Whether holy angels can do this or that on earth is not spoken about by Jesus” is so bizarre. What they cannot do in heaven, they obviously cannot do on earth. Spirit beings who appear in the form of men on earth cannot get married – PERIOD! To have been able to get married they would have had to be changed from spirit beings to beings of flesh and blood like humans because only two beings of the same substance (flesh and blood) can become one flesh in marriage. Don’t you know that? Let’s assume they did become flesh and blood in order to get married, wouldn’t that have made a sham of Jesus Christ’s incarnation, in the sense of Him not being the first Person in heaven to have become flesh and blood like us? You see, that’s what your infamous Nephilim doctrine is doing. It is demeaning, vilifying, and making a mockery of Jesus Christ’s unique incarnation and, I may add, the Gospel of redemption, and therefore must be rejected with the contempt it deserves. Stop beating around the bush to defend a horrendous doctrine like the Nephilim and repent of your evil.

  169. Ian says:

    Deborah
    I ahve been away but have attempted twice to post a reply and it comes up as a firewall block – securi with your web site details – so don’t know what is going on. and this is not the first time either

  170. Hi Ian :hi:

    Interesting. When it happens again, please snapshot your pc/laptop screen with the Sucuri message and email it to me please at: discerningtheworld@gmail.com

  171. Ian says:

    can’t seem to post a reply – a securi firewall blockage comes up

  172. Well you are relying… :wink:

  173. Ian says:

    [DELETED by DTW – Hi Ian, sent Sucuri and email to see why you are being blocked, :check: sent you email confirming this as well, will come back to you asap with news]

  174. Ian says:

    the following is only a part (the end paragraph) of what I am wanting to post, so here goes.

    “Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit is come He will guide you into all truth. Yes, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. But as to how quickly He guides us into all truth, and how readily we receive His truth as it is in Jesus, is another matter. The guiding is a process that may take all our lifetime. Once again the problem is not with God, but with us. Jesus said Himself that He had many things to tell His disciples but that they were not ready to receive it all then. And while it is possible that they got a full revelation of all truth on the day of Pentecost, it is more likely that the Holy Spirit revealed things to them little by little, line upon line. And so it is with us.

  175. Indeed, what you say is in some sense true. However, whenever someone refuses to listen to what the apostles teach in the Word of God, he/she is bound for big problems.

    “We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6)”

    The disciples failed to understand some of the things Jesus taught because their hearts were hardened. Their concern was for their own preeminence in the Kingdom of God, so they saw no need for Jesus’ death on the cross. Sorrow over his departure, dismay over the prophecy of a traitor among them, together with a prediction over their own desertion, made them insensitive to more spiritual truths. However, when the Spirit of Truth would come after Jesus Christ Ascension, He would lead them in all truth. Please learn to make a distinction between pre- and post Pentecost. It is of the utmost importance. And so it is not with us as it was with the apostles before Pentecost. Bear that in mind, please.

  176. LT says:

    Firstly, I agree with this article completely about Gen 6. It’s an end time Satanic Delusion. Prepping people to accept the coming Anti-Christ.

    Here is something I don’t agree with. Job 1 and 2. The “sons of God” in these two verses.

    Job 1:1-6.
    Verse 2 says “And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.”
    Verse 3 “and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.”

    Now Job was a wealthy man, had a very great household. Many servants. Many people lived in his household. Now, this term “men of the east”, the word “men” in Hebrew is “son”, (ben). The Hebrew words for “men”, referring to just men is not the same here as other places. This literally translate “son of the east”. So we see a distinction being made here. These “sons of the east” are a remnant, or a specific group of men living in the east, that follow God. Job was a part of these men. But it says “so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.” So we can understand that many men were following God at this time in the east. THESE “men of the east” ARE the “sons of God” in Job 1:6

    Job 1:4 “And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.”
    So each son has a house, and have a feast every one his day. Go back to verse 2, “seven sons”, verse 4 “every one his day”. This equates to a 7 day feast. Sound familiar? Job and his men and sons were keeping feast days unto the Lord. Why is this important? Well, what would children of God do when keeping feast days?

    Deuteronomy 16:15 “Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.”

    Job was keeping these feast days! And what did all the males do during these feast days? Next verse.

    Deuteronomy 16:16 “Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:”

    So what did all the males have to do during the feast days? “Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God”.

    Now to Job 1:6 “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.”

    So where are “fallen angels” at here? We KNOW that this took place during the time that Job and his family were feasting. Chapter one in the book of Job has absolutely NOTHING to do with “fallen angels”.

    These “sons of God” are talking about Job 1:2 “seven sons”, Job 1:3 “men (sons) of the east”. THESE ARE the “sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD”.

    Now since Satan came among them, people are easily deceived into believing that this happened in heaven, but the scriptures never say this. Even in our daily prayer Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Look at

    Joshua 24:1 “And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God.”

    So should we assume that Joshua and his men went to heaven and Gods throne to present themselves?? Of course not. It means they all got together in one place in the spirit of God to worship.

    Job 2:1 “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.”

    Now at this point, Job has lost his sons and his daughters. But he still had servants and still were other men in the land, the men (sons) of the east. And even though Job had lost all his sons and daughters, Job 1:22says, “In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.” So when we get to Job 2:1, this is another time when “sons of God”, (men of the east), came to present themselves before the LORD. And again, this did NOT happen in the heavenly realm…

    Job 2:2 “And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” This never mentions “heaven” as to where this takes place. God can talk to Satan or anyone. anywhere! No limits to God. Remember Adam in the garden?
    Genesis 3:9-10 “And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
    Adam wasn’t in heaven. He was on earth. God doesn’t have to be limited to talking to Satan in heaven. Job 2:1 is NOT talking about any angels. Even worse, it’s not even REMOTELY talking about “fallen” angels.

    So the “sons of God” in Job 1 and 2, much like Gen 6, is NOT talking about “fallen angels”.

  177. Thanks LT for your excellent comment. I agree with you 100%. You may want to read this: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2017/05/24/nephilim-part-2/

  178. Dear LT

    WOW!! Thank you :hi5: I was actually looking into the “sons of God” in Job 1 & 2 a few weeks ago, you have saved me ooodles of time! :yay:

  179. Patrick Farrington says:

    You are a lie. And your father is the devil! God forbid the angels on what they did! They directly disobeyed God on what they did. Regardless, they were in disobedience and were deserving of death. Just as Adam & Eve brought death through sin. wow. lies…Straight fro the devil your father!!

  180. Dear Patrick

    Who are you speaking too?

  181. Well, Deborah, the Pharisees called Jesus the devil. So, it proves that Dear Patrick, or whatever his name is, is a Pharisee. Jesus lives in you, Debs, so Patrick must be referring to Jesus as the devil.

    It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? (Mat 10:25) .

    Me thinks that Jesus Christ is not Patrick’s God, because, if He had been, he would never have referred to Him as the devil.

    Patrick has a plethora of gods. They are called Jacob Prasch, Chuck Missler, and the demonic Nephilim.

  182. Hi Tom

    That was my thinking too…I was just giving Dear Patrick the benefit of the doubt that he just might have been speaking to Jacob Prasch and Chuck Missler. But deep down I knew that was not the case…

    Patrick better catch a wake up, his coffee is cold, but the the false doctrine of Nephilim that he believes in is as hot as hell.

  183. Ian says:

    Dear fellow believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. In the main article posted above the following phrase appears
    – “The English Standard version (ESV) is one of the best translations available.”
    It really depends on who you are talking with.
    Seeing we are truly wanting to uphold and honour our Lord Jesus Christ I thought you may like to know, the following link will show that the full name of our ‘Lord Jesus Christ’ is diminished in part 22 times in the ESV. Not bad for one of the best translation available – I don’t think.

    I don’t think I have had an email from Deborah regarding a posting I made some weeks or more back. ???

    http://www.scionofzion.com/esv_attack.htm

  184. Dear Ian

    I actually have a life, like you and everyone else and was very, very, very busy with some other things not DTW related. I am now back online. :yay: I have over a 100 emails to go through, please be patient.

    Tell me why you didn’t respond to my email regarding your attempt to hack this website? Hmmmm?

  185. Ian

    Scionofzion is a Calvinist website.

    ESV is a Calvinist bible after all, John MacArthur’s study bible is a ESV, so go figure.

    ESV is the Reformed bible of choice – when you read it you will notice how the topic of ‘Election’ oozes from its pages…

  186. Krista Brewer says:

    I didn’t read this. I saw the “tite” and wasn’t intereted in the rest. Those of you who say that Chuck Missler is demonic have no clue what you’re even talking about. He died last May, so I guess according to whoever said this, he’s in hell now, right? Jacob Prasch, I don’t even know who HE is. But Church Missler; tonight was the first night I’d even heard tell of him. I just started tonight watching his teachings on the Book of Revelation. I’m only on the first one, but he’s VERY good. So for anyone to say he’s false (like some actually even say that Billy Graham was false lol). But for someone to say he’s false, you’d better have some good, bible based facts to back that up (which you can’t do, because honestly, NOBODY can say who is false except for God)

  187. Krista, how on earth can you make any righteous judgment when you did not read the article? No one said or suggested that Chuck Missler is/was demonic. The article says that the Nephilim hypothesis is demonic. In other words, the doctrine itself is demonic and not Chuck Missler. If you want to judge, then do so righteously and not emotionally.

  188. Krista Brewer says:

    Tom, I wasn’t judging anybody. I was going by “Title” of the article; I told you that I didn’t it. The “Title” made it sound like someone suggested Charles Missler was demonic. If that’s not what it said, then I apologize. But I don’t see what the difference is between his doctrine being demonic and him being demonic. If the doctrine is, it stands to to reason, he is,I would think.

  189. Krista Brewer wrote:

    Tom, I wasn’t judging anybody. I was going by “Title” of the article; I told you that I didn’t it. The “Title” made it sound like someone suggested Charles Missler was demonic. If that’s not what it said, then I apologize. But I don’t see what the difference is between his doctrine being demonic and him being demonic. If the doctrine is, it stands to to reason, he is,I would think.

    Nope, you are wrong. When Jesus said to Peter, “Get thee behind me Satan” He wasn’t saying that Peter was demonic. He was saying that Peter said something contrary to the will of God (in other words, from Satan). Every teaching that is contrary to what the Bible teaches is a lie and therefore demonic (John 8:44). By the way, did you know that Chuck Missler worked together with the false prophet Kim Clement in an online conference from 9-11 January 2015? What does God say:

    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 John 1:9-11)

    https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2017/05/19/nephilim/
    https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2017/05/24/nephilim-part-2/

  190. Robert Van Staden says:

    And this Nephilim Garbage is growing. A HUGE internet and facebook “discernment” page Exposing Chrislam and Now The End Begins got into this doctrine boots and all drafgging the flock along.

    https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/oxford-professor-claims-aliens-breeding-with-humans-unaware-bible-had-story-first-3500-years-ago/?fbclid=IwAR27TPpz0gxIxmBHAnseMHDc2AsvPxql1WqU_S47SWNNOlVDqi3QliEEYKk

  191. Hi Robbie

    There are only two ways to prove that this is happening. The first is to attend and witness the marriage of the demon with his lovely human wife, which of course means that the demon (a spiritual being) must first become visible by assuming a bodily form (impossible!), and actually, see them kissing and then whizz off in their Ferrari for their honeymoon. The other way is to witness the birth of a huge giant nine months later. Has the Oxford Professor witnessed these events? He is not a Professor; he’s a charlatan and the Christians who believe him are deceived. These Christians do not know what constitutes a marriage. I suggest that they read Mark 10:8 and to make a quick trip through the Bible to see whether demons are made of flesh like human beings. Rubbish!

  192. Hello…. Can you please post the link showing where Jacob Prasch says that the nephilim grew to be 450 feet tall, please, please, please & thank you.

  193. Derrick Whitehorn

    In chapter 7 verses 11-15 in the Book of Enoch it is written . . .

    11. And the women conceiving brought forth giants,

    12. Whose stature was each three hundred cubits [about 442 feet]. These devoured all which the labour of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;

    13. When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;

    14. And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.

    15. Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

    Jacob Prasch admits that the Book of Enoch has no doctrinal veracity but does indeed help us to understand the Bible better. He writes:

    What is important to remember is that such books are of literary and historical value in contributing to properly interpreting The Word of God, but on their own are not a basis of doctrinal theology.

    Does the fact that the giants (Nephilim) in the Book of Enoch were 442 feet tall have any doctrinal value? Of course not. It can only be of historical value if it were true. Prasch seems to think so, having seen that he attributes to its content historical value that helps us to properly interpret the Word of God. The onus is on him to prove that the entire Book of Enoch is a historically factual source, and indeed completely reliable, including Chapter 7 and verses 7-11. Should he argue that it is the only portion in Enoch that cannot be trusted, he cannot possibly value it as a historically reliable source, simply because a single lie or mistake in Enoch causes it to be an unreliable source. How can you use lies to properly interpret the Word of God? (John 8:44). Can you tell us?

  194. Dear Derrick

    No Jacob Prash did not say that, the Book of Enoch says that, and Jacob Prasch agrees with Book of Enoch and Nephilim teaching.

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