Jacob Prasch & Chuck Missler – Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch, Chuck Missler - Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch and his friend Chuck Missler both teach the the same demonic Nephilim teaching that angels came down to earth and had sexual relations with human women who somehow miraculously gave birth to ginormous babies who grew to be around 450 feet tall.  Imagine that!  The poor woman must have died giving birth, oh wait…what about carrying a baby that big? *Let’s all laugh together shall we*

The thing is, this is false teaching, it’s a pack of demonic lies, yet Jacob Prasch continues to tells us ‘his opinion’ over and over and over again, brainwashing an unsuspecting audience.  Why does he not examine the Bible only to find the truth of the matter?  Instead of look at occult sources for answers, and then try and fit the bible into his occult conclusions. What is so important about this false demonic Nephilim teachingthat he must keep mentioning it?  And no one bothers to question him because they are all too scared for fear of the backlash.  (See bottom of article regarding backlash by Jacob Prasch).  Well here at DTW we are not scared.  We will ask Jacob Prach why he preaches this doctrine.

Now we understand that Jacob Prasch used Midrash (which contains many fantastical tales relating to the Bible and secret knowledge), to help him come to his conclusions, and we know that Midrash is EXTRA BIBLICAL!  (See this article: Moriel Ministries and MIDRASH)

Lets have a look and see what Jacob Prasch has to say regarding the demonic Nephilim. 

The Future History of the Church, Part 1

by James Jacob Prasch

A typological and midrashic examination of what will happen in the future of the church by seeing how the past history of the church is recapitulated eschatologically; how past events happen again in the Last Days. What to expect, and what to prepare for.  [Emphasis added]

The demonic Nephilim Then and Now

When I was a young Christian, I was a hippie who got saved out of the drug culture. We used to witness eight hours a day sometimes because we thought Jesus was coming next week, so what did anything else matter? I met so many people who said their beliefs were based on gods on other planets, UFOs and such.

When Jimmy Carter became President of the United States, he declassified something called The Blue Report that was put together by the American Air Force, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It was not all declassified, but Carter declassified a major portion of it. They found no evidence from exobiology for extraterrestrial life, but they had innumerable cases of people using parapsychology to conjure up extraterrestrial phenomena; there were even cultists who could make these things appear. Similar studies were done in Great Britain. Reading the Blue Report can be quite frightening. There is no scientific basis for belief in extraterrestrials, but a firmly recorded basis in the occult. Uri Geller, the Israeli spoon-bender, said that there were people on other planets trying to persuade him to be the Messiah.

The demonic Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the demonic Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different demonic Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No one is divided over this issue, only false teachers who want to tickle the ears of their followers want to divide the truth into error.  Please read below under the heading of  The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the demonic Nephilim to understand the Biblical truth of the demonic Nephilim.]

Now, most of the popular “deliverance ministry” going around today is a lot of Ghostbusters-type nonsense with no Scriptural basis; I would seriously question whether most of these people could handle real demon possession if it ever faced them – it’s no joke. But I once cast a demon out of a black necromancer who was having sexual relations with demons.

There was a witch in England on television in America, who gave her testimony when she got saved and told of having intercourse with a devil; people witnessed this. This kind of activity was around in the days of Noah, and it will be around again in the Last Days. Somehow demonoids – they were virtual monsters – will exist on the earth again, as they did in Noah’s day. We will see an increase in occult activity, but particularly in this kind of high Satanism; even to the point of people having relations with demons. It already goes on, but it’s going to increase.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  To compare a testimony of someone who had sexual relations with the devil to that of Genesis 6 is pure speculation.  First note that people today who have relations with demons do not fall pregnant – never have and never will.  Will we see an increase in demonic activity, yes, but to say that we will see a rise of the demonic Nephilim again in the end times as was back in the days of Noah is not the truth.]

Man is utterly fallen. I studied science in university, and I have no problem with science. However, it remains that man is fallen. So while I have no problem with science, I know what happens when you put science into the hands of fallen man. It is easy to visualize the kinds of atrocities that can be accomplished with biogenetic engineering; people can eventually take DNA, clone it, and re-create Josef Stalin or a whole race of Josef Stalins. There are things happening right now in genetics that when I studied biology in university would have seemed like science fiction; they no longer are.

I have no doubt – I am not teaching this doctrinally, this is my own opinion – that the world is being set up for a huge spiritual seduction in which UFOs and extraterrestrials along with other things of this type will play a role. It can be seen in David Bowie’s albums and in Stephen Spielberg’s movies, for example. The Bible talks about “the fallen ones”; the ones who fell from heaven, the demonic Nephilim. The cosmos needs to be cleansed. I am quite convinced that extraterrestrial phenomena will be a large part of the spiritual seduction that is on its way. I am also quite afraid of the developments in biogenetic engineering – not the developments themselves, but seeing that kind of technology in the hands of fallen man. When combined with the occult, which scientology and other of these types of groups are already doing, the ramifications are terrible. Somehow, there was a physical manifestation of demons in the days of Noah; that will recur in some way in the Last Days before the Return of Jesus. I won’t speculate on it further, but I do see the way things are heading. This is the kind of world that we have to prepare our children to live in; think about that and then tell me you don’t believe in Christian school!   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  First Jacob Prasch says he has no doubt, but then goes on to tell you that this is NOT BIBLICAL DOCTRINE, it’s only HIS OPINION.  If it’s his opinion, then why oh why is he preaching his opinion as if it were doctrine!  Jacob Prasch preaches this demonic Nephilim teaching on very video I’ve watched, practically ever conference I’ve watched, and mentions it in practically every book he writes.  Why?  Why is he so enthusiastic on getting this lie out to the people?  So they can run over to Chuck Missler’s website and be ensnared in the trap that has been set up for them there?  He says “the fallen ones” meaning “those who fell from heaven”, instead it actually means “apostates”, it is a passive form of  “ones who have fallen”. “The cosmos needs to be cleansed” he says?  What a load of nonsense.  [Emphasis added]

He says we have to prepare our children to live in a world with demon monsters walking around before Jesus returns (presumably before the rapture).  No my dear readers, prepare you and your children for a lot worse;  for men (who don’t look like monsters at all), but who come to you as wolves in sheep’s clothing preaching doctrines contrary to scripture leading you and your children to hell.

Yes there will be an increase in demonic activity in the atmosphere, it is increasing daily as Satan’s time nears an end and people’s minds are caught up in doctrines of demons – Christianity no longer exists, Paganism is now the religion of choice,  just as it was in the Days of Noah – wickedness abounds and will increase to unprecedented proportions.  Just as it was in the Days of Noah and before that, there were extremely wicked people ruling, like we have today; family’s of statue (Rothchilds, Rockerfellers, etc) dictating Satan’s way forward into a NWO.

Source: (link no longer online)

The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the Nephilim

Are the demonic Nephilim demonic monsters or are they not? The reason I am so passionate about the answer to this question is because of the rise in interest in the supernatural, i.e, aliens, trans-humanism etc.  There are stories running abound that during the end-times demons will be free to do as they please on earth, producing offspring like the demonic Nephilim.  The bible is very clear that we are to not let our minds be captured by occult imagination because when human minds get hold of unbiblical ideas it runs free and causes all sorts of havoc.

Note:  Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.  DTW endorses this below article only.

Nephilim

By Pastor Anton Bosch – Permission received by Anton Bosch to re-publish his article.  

The Hebrew word Nephilim is translated “giants” in the Old Testament. It only appears twice in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33.  A whole series of doctrines have been built around this word, in spite of the fact that the word only appears rarely. These doctrines on the Nephilim are based on Genesis 6:1-4. (It must be noted that most speculators lean very heavily on extra-biblical writings for most of their information.) The theories can basically be summed up as follows:

Demons / angels (sons of God) had illicit relationships with women (the daughters of men) and these perverted relations produced genetically mutated beings known as Nephilim (giants). God then imprisoned some of the angles who did this and in order to purify the bloodline of man God brought on the Flood. Through genetic engineering these demonic Nephilim will be resurrected, one of which will be the Antichrist[i]. To these people, the demonic Nephilim are also connected to so-called extra-terrestrial forms of life.

Since these theories are gaining ground and a number of books have been published based on this hypothesis, it is necessary to examine Genesis 6 again and see what exactly it teaches. We will discover that the proponents of these theories break every principle of hermeneutics. Here is the text:

“Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown”. (Genesis 6:1-4)

Sons of God

The first problem revolves around who in the passage are the “sons of God”. Some make the connection with Job 1:6; 2:1. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” (Job 1:6). It is obvious, and not contested, that the “sons of God” in Job were angels. But does that mean that this term in Genesis 6:2 also refers to angels?

First, the normal meaning of “sons of God” is “believers”. “But as many as received him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12). Job 1:6 (a poetic book) is the only place where angels are called “sons of God”. It is logical and reasonable therefore that the normal meaning be attached to the term here, rather than the exception, as found in Job, unless there were something in the text that made a connection between Genesis 6 and Job 1 – which is absent.

Second Jesus explicitly said that “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30) (See also Luke 20:34-36). Therefore in Jesus’ own words, angels are asexual and do not procreate.

So here is the problem. Genesis is obscure about who had the relations. Jesus said angels do not have relations. So either Jesus was mistaken or the “sons of God” were not angels. You choose! It is really as simple as that – there are no other options.

Some try to get around this by saying that the angels inhabited (possessed) human bodies to do this. That sounds good. But here is the question: A Christian man has the Holy Spirit in him. When that man produces a child by his wife, what is the child? God or man? Clearly, it is a man. There are multitudes of people in the world who are demon possessed and who procreate. What do they produce? Human babies or mutants? Obviously human babies. So why should Genesis 6 be any different. If demons entered into men to produce offspring the children would be human, and only human.

One of the principles of hermeneutics is that the Old Testament is interpreted in the light of the New Testament and not the other way round. In order to say that the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 are angels (or demons) we must discard the light of the NT and that should never happen.

The nature of the relationships

The next problem is that it is claimed that the angels had illicit relations with women. Yet the text is very clear: “they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose” (Genesis 6:2b). The phrase “took wives for themselves” only, and always, means marriage. It never refers to casual, illicit or adulterous relationships. (See Genesis 11:29 &Ruth 1:4). To suggest otherwise is reading into the text that which is simply not there.

Giants

The theory goes that the giants were the product of these illicit relationships. We have shown that the text does not refer to illicit relationships and that the fathers could not be angels.

Genesis 6:4, again is very clear: “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.”  Notice that it says there were giants (fact number 1) and afterwards the sons of God came into… (fact number 2). There is NO connection between the fact that there were giants and the fact that people had children.

It is exactly like me saying: “There is milk in the supermarket and eggs are $1.50 a dozen” Milk has no effect on the price, or even the existence, of eggs and the other way around. I am simply stating two facts that describe things about food in the supermarket.

In Genesis 6 Moses is describing the state of the world before the flood. He makes no connection between the demonic Nephilim and the sons of God and daughters of men. If the sentence had been reversed as follows: “The sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore demonic Nephilim then you could postulate some theory about the nature of this process. But the text does not give us any room to connect the demonic Nephilim with these marriages.

Genesis 6:4 does say that the children that were produced “were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown“. “Mighty men” is a term which is used 154 times in the OT and simply refers to powerful men, either physically or politically. Just like there are many mighty men today and some are men of God and others are worldly and unsaved, so there were mighty men in those days, of which Noah was one.

“Men of old” also holds no mystique, these were simply the heroes of bygone days.

“Men of renown” is also used in Numbers 16:2 and Ezekiel 23:23. These are famous men, or well-known men. The Hebrew term literally means “men with a name” meaning they had “made a name” for themselves.

The descendants of these relationships were not monsters, mutants, or anything extraordinary. Some were ordinary people and some were powerful, some were little known and others had made a name for themselves. Genesis 6:5 (the next verse) goes on to describe these people as wicked and worthy of God’s judgment.

Furthermore, the translation of the word demonic Nephilim in Genesis 6:4 as “giants” is very arbitrary. There are many other possible ways this word could be translated here: “Bullies”, “mighty ones” or “tyrants”.  At least one dictionary states that the demonic Nephilim in Genesis and in Numbers were two different peoples[ii]. Once again, we cannot build an entire doctrine on a word which we cannot translate or explain with any measure of certainty.

Genesis 6:4 is simply a description of life before the flood and not a commentary on mysterious genetic mutant life forms. Jesus obviously has this verse in mind when he says: “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (Matthew 24:37-39) (note the reference to marriage in both verses).

One of the most important principles of hermeneutics is that the verse has to be read in its context. The context is clear, that life was going on as usual, people were becoming more and more self-absorbed and sinful but judgment was coming. This is the same point Jesus was making in Matthew 24 – people will be self-absorbed and fixated on every-day life and will not be ready for His coming.

The cause of the Flood

Those who speculate about the demonic Nephilim connect them with the reason for the Flood. Once again, there is no connection there. Genesis 6 describes life on earth. Yes, there were Nephilim, but more significantly, people were marrying and having children and becoming more wicked. Genesis 6:5-6 cannot be clearer. God’s judgment fell because of the wickedness of man. This had absolutely nothing to do with demons, angels or mutants. Look at these verses again: “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”(Genesis 6:5-7).

If the flood had anything to do with anything other than man’s sinfulness, either Moses or Jesus would have said something in that regard, but both are silent about demons, angels and mutants. The flood had nothing to do with clearing the gene pool. It was all about clearing the earth of sinful and wicked people. Even Sunday school children should be able to tell you that.

If the flood had anything to do with God wanting to destroy the giants because they were “contaminated seed” or to purge the gene pool then, Noah and his sons should have been destroyed also. Noah and his sons carried the gene from which giants were formed. This is obvious since giants (demonic Nephilim) are born after the flood and were present in the Land when the spies were sent to scout out the land (Numbers 13:33). These giants were descendants of Noah since all of humankind after the flood descended from Noah.

Extra-biblical evidence

These speculators quote the Book of Enoch (and other apocryphal books) in support of their ideas as though they are Scripture. Yet, Enoch and the rest of the Apocrypha are not part of the canon of Scripture for obvious reasons – they are not, and have never been regarded as inspired except by apostate churches and false teachers.

Once again they break one of the fundamentals of Evangelical and Reformed hermeneutics: We hold only to Scripture and do not add, nor subtract from it (Revelation 22:18; Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32). It is especially reprehensible to formulate an entire doctrine on extra-biblical evidence as these people are doing.

The fact is that there is overwhelming evidence in very old writings that the Hebrew sages never regarded the “sons of God” as angels or demons. But we dare not use that as evidence lest we sink to the same level as these speculators.

Jude 6 is quoted in support of the theories. This verse says:

  • “And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6).

Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

2 Peter 2:4-5

Verse 4 is similar to Jude 6:

  • For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly.” (2 Peter 2:4-5).

To those who pluck verses out of their context there appears to be a connection between the sinning angels and the flood. But look at the context:

  • 2 Peter 2:1-3 There were, and will be, false teachers and they will “bring upon themselves swift destruction“.
  • 2 Peter 2:4 Angels sinned and God “reserved them for judgment
  • 2 Peter 2:5 The ancient world sinned and God judged them by the flood but spared Noah
  • 2 Peter 2:6-8 Sodom and Gomorrah sinned and God judged them but spared Lot
  • 2 Peter 2:9 Therefore in the future, the Lord will judge the unjust and save the godly.

The angels and the pre-flood world are simply two of four examples that Peter quotes to show that God will punish sin. The connections between the sinning angels and the flood are the same connection with false teachers and Sodom – the connections have nothing to do with gene mutation but is all about sin and the consequences thereof.

Conclusion

The purpose of this brief article is not to provide answers to all the questions that surround Genesis 6. In fact, we do not have all the answers and those who claim they have a full and detailed explanation for these verses are speculating. The point of the text in Genesis 6, and 2Peter 2 is to warn that God will not tolerate sin and will judge it.

But what we are certain of is that the theories about angels producing mutant life forms are not Biblical and that the conclusions derived from this theory are fictional, at best.

  • “…charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith“. (1 Timothy 1:3-4).
  • “But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.”(1 Timothy 4:7).
  • For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

[i] This is a very brief and highly sanitized summary of some very extreme and bizarre teachings. But it must also be noted that those who hold to these teachings differ greatly amongst themselves as to how far they take their conclusions.

[ii]Thomas, R. L. (1998). New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.

More important notes:

1)  David and Goliath – 

TheGreatKhali

Yes, there were giants but not in the sense of the pictures of Jack and the beanstalk. Goliath was anywhere between 6’9” to 10′ tall.  The oldest manuscripts – the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the first-century historian Josephus, and the fourth century Septuagint manuscripts – all give his height as “four cubits and a span”, about six feet, nine inches tall (two meters), but later manuscripts have it as “six cubits and a span,” which would make him almost ten feet tall (three meters). The average height of the LA Lakers basketball team is 6’4″, with a few of them at 6’9″.  

Andre the Giant from the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) stood at 7’4″ while the Great Khali currently stands at 7’1″.  [Note that DTW has never referred to the dead-sea scrolls for information, but to help explain Goliath in this instance, it is very necessary.]

Saul stood “head-and-shoulders” above the rest of the people and David (it seems) could fit into his armour. David appears extra small to Goliath because he was just a youth when he fought and killed Goliath. However when David grew up he was able to use Goliath’s sword (1 Sam 21). So as adults David and Saul were almost as big as Goliath! – now that’s a revolutionary thought!

The same goes for the Canaanites, they were giant men, but not from another world.  There is no possible way that these giants were of an extraterrestrial nature because the bible does not say so – the bible does say there were giants before the flood and their DNA must have been in Noah because the DNA is carried forward to beyond the flood. We need to remain silent on the things the Bible is silent on – we can’t go around and make wild speculations as many well known pastors are doing.  To again speculate that angels came down again to have relations with human women to produce more giants after the flood is just nonsense.

2)  Those giant skeletons they supposedly found in Greece and Middle East –

There is a good reason we haven’t heard about this epic discovery in the New York TimesScientific American, or any other legitimate publication, and that is that these photos, like the one circulating since 2004 purporting to show a giant skeleton found in the Middle East, are fakes.

As if it weren’t preposterous enough to claim that one 15-foot-tall fossilized human skeleton had turned up without media fanfare, we’re asked to believe that archaeologists recently dug up four of them in a single location (Greece). In point of fact, each of the photos appears to have been taken at a different time and place.

So far I’ve only been able to locate the original of one of them, but it serves as clear proof that Photoshopping took place. Image #4 was created by inserting an outsized human skull into a photo of a 1993 University of Chicago dinosaur dig in Niger, Africa (see the original here). If you look at a blow-up of the doctored image, the skull appears flattened and unnatural (and one of the workers actually appears to be standing on it!).

Moreover, the same cut-and-pasted skull was used to create image #2 (see side-by-side comparison). A blow-up of image #2 with brightness and contrast enhanced reveals unnaturally dark “shadows” around the skull. The skull in Image #3 is marked by incongruously bright highlights on the teeth and around the edges of the gaping temple wound. And in image #5 the shadows coming off the skeleton fall more or less toward the camera, while the worker’s shadow falls due left, suggesting that elements of two different photos were combined.

Finally, despite frequent references to “giants” in ancient mythology and English translations of the Bible, there is no generally accepted scientific or historical evidence that such beings ever actually existed (unless you consider the Weekly World News a reliable source).

See here for more giant skeletons pictures and why they are a hoax as well:  http://yowcrooks.blogspot.com/2008/12/giant-skeleton-hoax.html

3)  A greater understanding of Jude 5-10:

  • And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6)

Jude 6 is quoted in support of their theories connecting it to Genesis 6 that angels came down and had relations with women. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

To explain Jude 5 – 8 properly, it contains a number of separate examples of God judging  sin. Just like paprables where there is a central truth and the only connection between the parables is that truth (e.g. That which was lost is found: lost coin, lost sheep, lost son).  Here there are four examples showing the same truth that God judges sin. The examples are: 1) Israel’s unbelief in not crossing into the land, 2) angels who did not keep their proper domain, 3) Sodom and Gomorrah’s sexual sin and 4) false teachers.

If there is a sexual connection between Sodom and the angels (the angels sinned in a sexual way) then there must also be a connection between Sodom and Israel and between Israel and the angels. But that is not the link here.  The link is SIN. In the case of Israel it is unbelief (Hebrews 3 & 4), in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it is homosexuality and in the case of the angels it was rebellion when Satan was cast down from heaven and 1/3 of the angels followed.

Note that the text must be read in its context and we cannot simply make connections and draw conclusions that are not there. Now concerning the statement “who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode”. People connect that to Sodom and say that this means angels had relations with women. But we need to examine the statement carefully. The first word “proper domain” according to Thayer means:

– Original: oiketerion
– Transliteration: Arche
– Phonetic: ar-khay’
– Definition:
1.  beginning, origin
2.  the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3.  that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4.  the extremity of a thing
a.  of the corners of a sail
5.  the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a.  of angels and demons

Note the word is “Arche” from which we get “arch-enemy”, “arch-rival” etc. This has nothing to do with sexual orientation but with primacy, authority etc. The second is “abode”. This is also a very common word: (oiketerion) which simply means house, habitation or abode.The verse then teaches that the angels did not remain in their proper authority and left their place. This could be construed to mean they had relations with the daughters of men. But it forces and construes a meaning that is NOT obvious to the sentence.

A more natural interpretation is that the angels rebelled against God’s authority at the very beginning when Satan was cast out of heaven and left their place in the order and hierarchy of God. The English Standard version (ESV) is one of the best translations available. The ESV has the verse as follows:  “And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day-

This is supported by June 9-10 which speaks about false preachers who do not know their proper place when dealing with the Devil and demons (and yes, Satan is a “dignitary”  – powerful person.

What we do not know is why some of these angels (demons) were chained in the “abyss” and others were left to roam the earth. We can only surmise that some sinned more grievously than others. But it also seems that the Lord can (and probably does) throw more of them into the abyss for whatever reason:

  • Luke 8:30-32   30 Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.  32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them.

  Now for Jude 7:  The cities around them refers to Admah and Zeboim:  

  • Deuteronomy 29:23  “And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:”
  • Hosea 11:8  “How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.”

The words “similar manner to these” can only refer to the most recently mentioned subjects – the cities. There is no way, at all that it can refer to the Angels. No language works like that.

When we say “Tom went to church and John went to the mall and Jerry went to the beach and he got sunburned.” The “he” can only refer to the most recent subject – Jerry.

So the meaning is very clear and obvious that Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to immorality and Admah and Zeboim did likewise. There is no other possibility.The problem here is that it all begins with a bad exegesis is Genesis 6. If you read Genesis 6 to mean that Angels had relations with women (and reject the words of Jesus that they cannot) then you have to find further support. Once you have jumped to that conclusion, it is easy to misread and misinterpret Jude 6 & Jude 7. But if you do not make assumptions about relations between angels and women, then there is no way you can read that into Jude. So, you have to force the meaning of Gen 6 and then you have to force the meaning of Jude 6 to come to a conclusion.

source:  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/the-truth-about-the-sons-of-god-the-daughters-of-men-and-the-nephilim/

Alien Encounter -Chuck Missler

Some false teaching by Chuck Missler.

‘And Also After That’:

The Return of the Nephilim?

by Chuck Missler – September 1997 Personal Update NewsJournal.

In the last article, “Mischievous Angels or Sethites?” we explored the importance of understanding Genesis 6. The straightforward presentation of the text seems to clearly portray a strange union of fallen angels with women to produce a hybrid race called the “Nephilim,” or fallen ones.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW NOTE:  The straightforward presentation of the text clearly states that it was the marriages of the seed of godly Seth with the daughters of ungodly Cain. Not angels with women.]

We enumerated the reasons we accept the “angel” view and why the liberal “Sethite” view is inadequate.

[DTW note:  Oh so you do not accept the Sethite view simply because then you can’t make up a whole new false doctrine.]

Far beyond simply a misunderstanding of the forthright presentation of the text, the “Sethite” view also obscures apprehension of the prophetic Scriptures.

Post-Flood Occurrences

Regarding the Nephilim, Genesis 6:4 also includes the haunting phrase, “…and also after that….” Apparently these strange events were not confined just to the period before the Flood.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  Nothing haunting about it, the fact is people turned wickedly evil again after the flood.]

We find that there seems to be some recurrence of those things which resulted in unusual “giants” appearing in subsequent periods later in the Old Testament narrative, specifically the giant-races of Canaan.    [Emphasis added]

There were a number of tribes such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, and Zamsummim, that were giants.1 The kingdom of Og, the King of Bashan, was the “land of the giants.”2 Later, we also find Arba,3 Anak, and his seven sons (the “Anakim”) also as giants, along with the famed Goliath4 and his four brothers.5    

[DTW note:  Unusual giants, yes, but not demonic Nephilim.  None of the verses state that the tribes of Rephaim, Emim, Horim and Zamsummin were demonic Nephilim.  King Og was a giant, Arba was a giant, Anak and his seven sons were also Giants and so was Goliath and his 4 brothers.  What is a giant?  A very big person.  Not a demonic offspring.  Moses was big enough himself that he could smite them and cast giants out of their own land.  (Joshua 13:12)  “All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.”]

When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan had over 400 years to plant his “mine field” of Nephilim!6

[DTW note:  Again he is surmising and reading into the scripture what is NOT THERE.

  • Genesis 15:13;  13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years

All this means is that the Israelites are going a land that belongs to them, but they will for 400 hundred years have to serve the current inhabitants of the land.  So they will be a stranger in their own land.  No where does it say anything about Nephilim.]

When Moses sent his twelve spies to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land.7 (The term used was Nephilim.) Their fear of those terrifying creatures resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years.

[DTW note:   No the term Nephilim was NOT USED.  My goodness.  Lets have a look at the verse.

Below we are looking at the KJV 1611 translation and not some other funky version like Chuck Misslers Blue letter bible which puts in words that should not be there.

  • Numbers 13:33  “And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

The name Anak is derived from the son of Arba who was a great man among the Arabians (Jos 15:14) who possibly got his title because he used to wear a chain or splendid collar around his neck.    The word “giant” here in the above scripture actually refers to STATURE ( See Genesis 6:4).  The Anakims were more than likely a very distinguished family, or a chosen group of warriors, selected for their extraordinary size.

When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites.  “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.]

When Joshua and the nation Israel later entered the land of Canaan, they were instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of certain tribes.8 That strikes us as disturbingly severe. It would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there again was a “gene pool problem.”   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No, it’s not a ‘gene pool problem’, but a ‘wickedness of mankind problem‘.  The Canaanites were idolaters of the worst kind, enslaved to the most horrible sins.  God had enough; that the righteous judgment of God might sweep them away by the sword, this included famines and pestilences. There was however mercy shown, that while judgment was being employed by sword as punishment against one place, time was afforded for others at other places to repent.  Do you think God would offer demonic offspring time to repent? A gene-pool that has ‘lost it’s soul‘ through demonic intercourse time to repent?   No.  Because this gene pool/demonic offspring story is a load of nonsense. ]

These Rephaim, Nephilim, and others seem to have been established as an advance guard to obstruct Israel’s possession of the Promised Land. Was this also a stratagem of Satan?   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No Chuck Missler, you have an active imagination.  No demonic beings, no obstruction, just wicked people that had the opportunity to repent, other wise God would smite them down with the sword, which he did because of their wicked ways.]

The Days of Noah

Perhaps the most direct prophetic reference involving these things was the peculiar warning of our Lord Jesus Himself:  And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.   [Emphasis added]

Luke 17:26

What does that mean? He also warned:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.    [Emphasis added]

Luke 21:25,26 (emphasis added)

(The late Walter Martin loved to include a “flying saucer” gesture with his hand when quoting this verse!)

Is it possible that the UFOs – and their occupants – are part of an end-time scenario?

[DTW note:  Lets have a look at that verse properly shall we.

  • Luke 21:25-26 – Amplified Bible (AMP)  25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,   26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

Chuck Missler mis-reads the verse.  If we look at the Amplified bible it helps us explain it better. Men are fearful and apprehensive and their expectation is dread because they do not know what kinds of things going to come onto the world.  And ‘things’ in this verse is not ‘aliens or demons’.  There is a semicolon in the verse, and after this semicolon it tells us these things are.  The powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.]

The Miry Clay of Daniel 2

The famous dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel Chapter 2 appears to lay out all of Gentile history until God ultimately intervenes and sets up His own kingdom.

The various metals which make up the image in the dream are well known to serious students of prophecy.9> Even our common expression, “the idol has feet of clay,” comes to us from this classic passage.

But what is represented by the “miry clay” in this image? It seems to be strangely mixed-but not completely-with the iron in the dream. The term “miry clay” refers to clay made from dust,10 a Biblical idiom which suggests death.11 )

When Daniel interprets this for us he makes an especially provocative allusion in verse 43:

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.    [Emphasis added]

Daniel 2:43

As he switches to a personal pronoun, they, “shall mingle themselves with the seed of men…”  This is extremely suggestive when viewed in light of the warning of our Lord in Luke 17:26, ostensibly directing us to look more closely at Genesis 6.

Just what (or who) are “mingling with the seed of men?” These would seem to refer to some beings who are not the seed of men themselves!

Could this be a hint of a return to the mischief of Genesis 6? It staggers the mind to consider the potential significance of Daniel’s passage and its implications for the future global governance.

Are these “aliens” so prolific that they constitute a political constituency?

Will there be UFO incidents as part of a carefully orchestrated program to lead us toward a political agenda? Or has it started already? Are the UFOs, and the increasingly widespread abductions, part of the preparations for this scenario?

[DTW note:  No Mr Missler.  Again you twist scripture to suit your own purposes.  Let’s look at this verse properly shall we…

  • Daniel 2:43  Amplified Bible (AMP)  43 And as you saw the iron mixed with miry and earthen clay, so they shall mingle themselves in the seed of men [in marriage bonds]; but they will not hold together [for two such elements or ideologies can never harmonize], even as iron does not mingle itself with clay.

The last re-establishment of the Roman Empire is described as iron mixed with miry clay, which is nothing but brittle pottery.  This speaks of the attempted UNION between imperialism and democracy.  In the end this Roman Empire so easily shattered when Jesus Christ returns.]

UFO Abductions?

There seems to be a growing concern within the psychiatric community from the strange (and far too frequent) reports from people who claim to have been “abducted” by the occupants of UFOs. These reports are too bizarre to accept, and yet too frequent-and consistent-to ignore. What is particularly disturbing is the estimate from some national polls that as much as 3% of the population may be involved!

Perhaps the most well-known researcher in this area is Dr. John E. Mack, who is professor of psychiatry at The Cambridge Hospital, Harvard Medical School. A contributor to over 150 articles in professional (peer-reviewed) journals and a former Pulitzer Prize winner, he certainly appears to have impressive credentials.

He has been involved in almost a hundred of these cases personally, and has shocked the professional community by declaring that he believes these beings may be real and that they appear to have an agenda to develop a hybrid race!12

At a professional conference on abductions at M.I.T., Dr. Mack asked the provocative question, “If what these abductees are saying is happening to them isn’t happening, then what is?”13

Could all this involve a return to the strange events of “the Days of Noah?”

[DTW note:  Demons exist and people who have had these abduction experiences have experienced, just that, an altered state of consciousness where they have come face to face with demonic entities who create a reality for them that seems so real.  The exact same can be said of someone who experiences a ‘trip to heaven’, they see, touch, taste and smell ‘heaven or hell’ but it’s not real.]

Can A Christian Be “Abducted?”

In our publication, The Return of the Nephilim, I ventured the opinion, based on demonology considerations, that a Christian cannot be abducted. In response, I have received several letters of rebuttal, and also an interesting phone call from a senior executive at Universal Studios who apparently has extensive background in this area.

He indicated that he had participated with Dr. John Mack in some of his sessions, as well as with other researchers, and declared that I was wrong. He suggested that I investigate the Andreasson affair.

The Andreasson case involved a spirit-filled Christian; however, the reports indicate that she accepted an invitation to participate.14 It still appears to me that a Christian cannot be abducted unwillingly.

This opens up the entire subject of demonology and is beyond our scope here. (Our book does include a “Checklist for Potential Abductees” for those who are concerned with this issue.)   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  NEVER.  A genuine Born Again Christian will NEVER be abducted, EVER.  Chuck Missler’s theology leaves little to be desired as he is a Dominionist, so I would not for one second believe him when he says the person in The Andreasson case was a genuine believer.]

Dr. Mark Eastman and I have just published a new book, “Alien Encounters.”

Which attempts to explore the Biblical implications of the increasing reports of UFOs and their occupants, and their potential prophetic significance.

It will prove to be the most controversial thing we have done and we truly request your prayers!  [Emphasis added]

source: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/22/


Jacob Prasch does not like to be questioned and he attacks in the most brutal of manner.  Where as I question a person’s doctrine, Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries (who support him) go for the jugular vein, attack you personally and threaten you.

Please read the following articles where I question Preasch doctrine, please read the comments BY Jacob Pracsh himself:  Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way,  Jacob Prasch the Railer,  Moriel Ministries and MIDRASHJacob Prasch – But By The Grace of God [those Calvinists] . . . Tell The Truth!


NOTES

  1.  Genesis 14:5; 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-12, 22.
  2. Deuteronomy 3:11, 13; Joshua 12:4;13:12.
  3. Joshua 14:15; 15:13; 21:11.
  4. 1 Samuel 17:4ff.
  5. 2 Samuel 21:16-22.
  6. Genesis 15:13-21.
  7. Numbers 13:33.
  8. 8. Joshua 6:21; 9:24; 10:28, 39; 11:24; Deut 2:34; 7:2, 3; 20:16-17; et al. Cf. 1 Sam 15:3, 8, 18, 19; Ps 137:8, 9.
  9. See our briefing package Iron Mixed With Clay (out of print – see An Empire Reborn?)for a complete discussion.
  10. Mire [Aramaic in the text] is from a root meaning to be swept away; thus, dust, dirt.
  11. Rephaim (giants) also translated “dead”: Ps 88:10; Prov 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isa 14:9; 26:14.
  12. John E. Mack, Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens, Ballantine Books, NY, 1994, p.411.
  13. C.D.B. Bryan, Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind: Alien Abduction, UFOs, and the Conference at M.I.T., Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1995, p.4.
  14. Jim Marrs, Alien Agenda, HarperCollins Publishers, New York, p.213-218.



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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

195 Responses

  1. John chingford says:

    Well done Debs.

    I very briefly wrote something about JP’s webpage on his Nephilim beliefs on my blog. It is good that you have done a full critique on this false teaching.

    I wrote (towards the bottom of my article on link:

    http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/are-these-wordsactions-of-true-man-of.html

    “Taken from: [removed]

    Please note the statement made by Jacob in the third paragraph within the image:

    “The Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.”

    This is what the BIBLE (not Jacob) says in Gen 6:7:

    “So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” and again in verse 13:

    “So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.”

    The Bible then goes on to give a very clear account how everyone and everything was destroyed by the flood except those in the ark. The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!

    How can you trust Jacob to be a man who speaks truth when he adds to the Bible and fabricates stories in order to prove his own theology?”

    JP implies that the Nephilim survived the flood. Maybe he has a convenenient midrash interpretation which proves this???? JP always pulls up a “midrash” method of teaching out of the bag everytime he wants to persuade us that his (and only his) interpretation is correct. He knows that we cannot dispute the “midrash” method of interpretation as we do not know it well enough. That gives him licence to tell us that we have to trust his interpretation. Sorry JP, more and more you are proving yourself to be a WOLF

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    This is what the BIBLE (not Jacob) says in Gen 6:7:

    “So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” and again in verse 13:

    “So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.”

    The Bible then goes on to give a very clear account how everyone and everything was destroyed by the flood except those in the ark.

    The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!

    “Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Lend me your ears! Jacob Prasch; The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!” says Deborah with loud speaker

  3. Angela says:

    I believe that all Alien encounters and channelings are all demonic activity. My husband and inlaws are heavily into the “New Age” channelers, so I see the deception first hand. I pray constantly for them. I have read what these channelers have on their blogs, the Demons LOVE Obama. They say that he is pretending to be a bad guy, just until all of the mass arrests will happen. And the advice that these demons give is,”be still, meditate, and be positive and only think of love. It drives me crazy!!!!!
    Angela

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Angela

    I totally agree with you.

  5. TruthfulConversation says:

    Angela, I am a bit confused about what you said, you said that Obama is just pretending to be a BAD guy? I would have thought that he was pretending to be a GOOD guy?

  6. Martin Horan says:

    I’m a bit confused about that one also, TruthfulConversation.
    Bad often masquerades as good [2 Cor 11:14-15] but why would good want to masquerade as bad when bad is the antithesis of good?
    Perhaps Angela meant to type that “he is pretending to be a good guy”. I’ve occasionally typed the wrong word when I meant something else. It happens all the time in journalism and is known as eyeskip.
    Anyway, thanks for including the above, Debs. Excellent as usual!
    I never could see how Nephilim could be part demon and part human, especially in the statements of luke 20:35-36. Those Scriptures are pretty straightforward to me.
    I remember hearing a theory of what caused Satan to rebel against God. It’s only a theory but it’s interesting as a supposition–unless you try to make a theology of it! But it went like this:
    Satan had been informed that God had planned to make humans with an even greater potential than angels. They had the power to do something he and the angels could not do–reproduce themselves. So, in his jealousy–the result of pride–he rebelled against God and hates mankind and has continued to deceive it to its eternal destruction.
    Whatever… We do know that he loathes mankind and has tried to destroy humans, eternally, from mankind’s very beginning in Eden. We can be sure that if he and his demons had the power to impregnate women, they would have done so from the outset to create many hybrids.
    That would really have put the scuppers on God’s plan to redeem mankind–because, then, much of humanity would be part unredeemed demons. Forget even the ancestry of the Messiah being affected, even if God would see to Christ’s ancestors all being purely human, Satan still would have created plenty of humans impossible to receive redemption. Yet Scripture makes it plain–though Calvinists beg to differ–that God does not will that any should perish [2 Peter 3:9].
    As God would have known Satan planned that long before he did, and that there would be those incapable of receiving redemption, why then would God made angels with male sex organs? Presuming He did (though He did NOT!) He could only have done so logically for that purpose alone: Satan creating hybrids. Remember, had it happened, God would have known it was going to happen.
    If the descendents of these hybrids were around on the earth prior to Peter’s day, Peter ought not to have written the above Scripture as it then would already have been too late. God would have ordained it that that all of their offspring were going to be damned and there was nothing that could be done about it. But we know that Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write that Scripture [2 Tim 3:16]. So we know that it is not God’s will that any should perish and we know that Satan does not have sexual organs any more than any other angel has, whether they be fallen or with God in heaven.
    Of course, we know this stuff is fantasy pure and simple. Either that or God would be a greater Calvinist than Calvin!

  7. Truthful Conversation says:

    Yes agreed Martin, I am sure it was a typo, but as I have not seen other comments from Angela, I thought I would ask her.

    I am liking that description you use..eyeskip! I hate it when I spell something incorrectly, not because I cannot spell correctly, but because it is a typo! I am very OCD about spelling and grammar, so it makes me mad when I do it! LOL

    I read and re-read my comments to check for error, so when I ‘eyeskip’ it truly frustrates me.

  8. Michael says:

    Excellent article on this subject. I struggled to understand the term “Sons of God” however the bible does state that theory of angels and humans having offspring, therefore it is a false doctrine. I have wondered about Chuck Missler ministry, he was being promoted by a Calvary Chapel I use to attend. Can you tell me more about the Calvary Chapel movement?

  9. misselis says:

    [deleted – sorry for deleting your commenting, I am in no mood for Prasch supporters – goodbye]

  10. Leigh says:

    Of course you are going to delete comments, you are a coward, God forbid someone challenge you. You sure can dish it out but you can’t take the heat!

  11. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Leigh

    >> Of course you are going to delete comments, you are a coward, God forbid someone challenge you. You sure can dish it out but you can’t take the heat!

    No, I want to people to see what the so called Christian spirit that ooooozzzeeessss out of followers of Jacob Prasch.

  12. Leigh says:

    [delete]

  13. Michael says:

    [delete – You insult me by saying I don not show love because I delete comments, well, understand this, deleting a comment does not mean I hate you, it only means I am ‘deleting your comment’.]

  14. Michael says:

    I didn’t say you don’t show love by deleting comments. It’s the tone of your responses in green as well as the tone of the deletions which I take issue with. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what is meant, but the tone sounds sarcastic and disrespectful among other things to me. I don’t recall exactly what I wrote, but I apologize if I was out of line. I didn’t mean to insult you but rather to challenge you to examine the nature of your responses.

    From my perspective, the entire point of this blog seems to be to mention one singular point of view, and any comments which don’t fall in line are deleted. I made many points that I was hoping would be addressed and that we could have a dialogue on the issue.

  15. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Michael

    You get a TONE from words on a screen? That’s incredible. You must teach me how to hear tones. Because that TONE is generated in your head by your feelings! Not my feelings.

    And yes this blog mentions one point of view, one biblical point of view. And no, we don’t do Emergent dialogue. The aim of this blog is to strand up for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not bow down to other gods.

  16. Marion says:

    Michael – you can find more information about Chuck Missler by placing his name in the search bar on Deb’s site here, above.

    You also requested information about Calvary Chapels. They have been extensively exposed on these 3 sites:

    [DTW note: BEWARE OF THIS WEBSITE]

    http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/ [DTW note: BEWARE OF THIS WEBSITE]

    http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/

    There is lots of information on all these sites, if you google Calvary Chapel and use their names, it might narrow it down for you. There is much good material to be found there. BUT use discernment whenever you read. In many good sites you can find some error; “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” 1 Cor. 13:12-13).

    Disclaimer: Use of any site/link is not an endorsement of any person, group, “ministry” or philosophy.

  17. Michael says:

    [delete – sorry, we here stand for the Gospel of Jesus Christ – if you don’t like it, please go elsewhere.]

  18. James says:

    Hi Deborah,

    This is a quote from you that I lifted from the above article,

    Jacob Prasch does not like to be questioned and he attacks in the most brutal of manner. Where as I question someone’s doctrine, Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries (who support him) go for the jugular vein and threaten you.

    I am just curious if you follow this same practice by deleting comments from others on this comment string?

    I also noticed as you have pointed out that Prasch and Missler have taken liberties with Biblical passages, I believe you have as well, ie:

    When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites. “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.

    How would you know they “exaggerated the physical strength…” I am not getting that from the Biblical verse you used, is there another verse that points this out?

  19. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    James

    Deleting comments (because the comment is generally attacking me) is NOT attacking people in the most brutal manner – what is so difficult to understand about that.

    >> I also noticed as you have pointed out that Prasch and Missler have taken liberties with Biblical passages, I believe you have as well, ie:

    When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites. “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.

    How would you know they “exaggerated the physical strength…” I am not getting that from the Biblical verse you used, is there another verse that points this out?

    Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown
    Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871) believes so as well that is it a FIGURE OF SPEECH.

    Isaiah also uses this same figure of speech / mannerism.

    Isaiah 40:21-22
    21 ​​​​​​​Do you not know? ​​​​​​Do you not hear? ​​​​​​Has it not been told to you since the very beginning? ​​​​​​Have you not understood from the time the earth’s foundations were made? 22 ​​​​​​​He is the one who sits on the earth’s horizon; ​​​​​​its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him. ​​​​​​He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain, ​​​​​​and spreads it out like a pitched tent.

  20. shane says:

    Hello, this is a great site by the way! I am not entrenched on my beliefs of the subject because the Holy Spirit is always showing me new things and through walking with my Lord and savior Jesus Christ the veil gets lifted more and more everyday. I pray we all due our due diligence on studying the Word and allowing its author to reveal its mysteries to us. Food for thought……..

    1. The adversary had just received a judgment that there would be enmity( to be an enemy,hatred,hostility) between the woman’s seed (Jesus Christ) and the seed of the serpent and that his(serpent) head would be crushed by the woman’s seed. Genesis 3:15 simply states that the serpent has seed, offspring or descendants!
    a) Who or what is this offspring of the serpent and isn’t it logical to say that the serpents seed can manifest in the flesh?
    b) Don’t you think satan in his vanity and pride think he could do something about changing his predicament?

    2. We all know Noah was a righteous man but in Genesis 6:9 we learn that he was also perfect in his generations(KJV). The Hebrew word for perfect could be rendered without blemish. It is also the same word that describes the sacrificial animal( EX 12:5,LEV 1:3) that were to be offered up the Lord.
    a) Why does the Lord mention purity in his generations or ancestry if it weren’t important?

    My intention is not to build any doctrine but to ask questions. Thank you for the consideration and remember that iron sharpens iron. Praise Jesus our coming king!!!!!

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Shame

    1. The adversary had just received a judgment that there would be enmity( to be an enemy,hatred,hostility) between the woman’s seed (Jesus Christ) and the seed of the serpent and that his(serpent) head would be crushed by the woman’s seed. Genesis 3:15 simply states that the serpent has seed, offspring or descendants!
    a) Who or what is this offspring of the serpent and isn’t it logical to say that the serpents seed can manifest in the flesh?
    b) Don’t you think satan in his vanity and pride think he could do something about changing his predicament?

    2. We all know Noah was a righteous man but in Genesis 6:9 we learn that he was also perfect in his generations(KJV). The Hebrew word for perfect could be rendered without blemish. It is also the same word that describes the sacrificial animal( EX 12:5,LEV 1:3) that were to be offered up the Lord.
    a) Why does the Lord mention purity in his generations or ancestry if it weren’t important?

    1) Serpent Seed teaching is a false doctrine all on it’s on and has nothing to do with the Nephilim. Satan did not have sexual relations with Eve.

    2) Noah was a type of ‘Christ’ his whole story foreshadows the coming of Jesus Christ – Noah ‘being without blemish’ has got nothing to do with godly genepool vs a demonic genepool.

  22. Carolyn says:

    Debs, I admit to having studied this area mostly from the bias of the teaching on angels leaving their first estate, giants being the product of an uncommon union in a Satanic attempt to corrupt the image of God in man. Frankly, I see it that way but I’ve been wrong once before in my life….. soooooooo, it’s possible that there might be a second time….

    I regard the whole thing as in the realm of speculation and I really dislike the idea of how far they are taking this study…away from Scriptural boundaries into forbidden areas. I understand they are for the reason of research, but focusing our attention on alien abductions and how portals are generated gives me the creeps. I think we can use a bit of insight into secret societies and the use of the occult for the purpose of comparing error with truth, and exposing the wickedness of these teachings but to write books on the stuff, goes beyond creepy.

    The study of Scripture is a full time occupation for believers. Do we really have time to go beyond the boundaries of what is written into areas that have nothing to do with our walk with the Lord? One has to question the motives of such spiritual meanderings.

  23. Colin Ford says:

    Deborah!
    I should mention that Arthur Pink was a five point TULIP Calvinist!
    I would remind you that many of your contributors call such teachings blasphemous.
    That said, I would certainly agree with you that Mr Pink as a gifted Bible expositor, I believe that he was raised in Dispensational circles, so I wouldn’t recommend his ‘Redeemer’s Return’, I believe that it inspired the ‘Left Behind’ series!

  24. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Colin

    Thanks for confirming info regarding Arthur Pink. I would not recommend people read ANYTHING by him.

  25. Carolyn says:

    Debs…I will take some time to research this side of the Genesis 6 paradigm. For some reason, I ended up in the camp of the Nephillum-ites on my journey and there I have pitched my tent. So maybe it’s time for me to study the other side of the coin. Be patient….God isn’t finished with me yet.

    I think the danger that lurks in this camp is the concentration on evil rather than godliness. Sensationalism and the Supernatural-ism sells books. And Occult teachings are like a votex…once you enter, you may never return. This is the danger that Scripture warns about and why the occult practices are forbidden.

    Most, even in the camp of the Nephilium-ites, would agree with the need to emphasize God’s Word in eschatology. There are some very influential theologians, however, that have infiltrated that camp and have ended up infecting the whole batch with occult interests and false teaching. They are teaching on the the deeper secrets of Satan without comprehending the risks, to themselves but especially to new believers. Being deceived and deceiving….

  26. Redeemed says:

    Carolyn wrote:

    Debs, I admit to having studied this area mostly from the bias of the teaching on angels leaving their first estate, giants being the product of an uncommon union in a Satanic attempt to corrupt the image of God in man. Frankly, I see it that way but I’ve been wrong once before in my life….. soooooooo, it’s possible that there might be a second time….
    I regard the whole thing as in the realm of speculation and I really dislike the idea of how far they are taking this study…away from Scriptural boundaries into forbidden areas. I understand they are for the reason of research, but focusing our attention on alien abductions and how portals are generated gives me the creeps. I think we can use a bit of insight into secret societies and the use of the occult for the purpose of comparing error with truth, and exposing the wickedness of these teachings but to write books on the stuff, goes beyond creepy.
    The study of Scripture is a full time occupation for believers. Do we really have time to go beyond the boundaries of what is written into areas that have nothing to do with our walk with the Lord? One has to question the motives of such spiritual meanderings.

    I agree! There are certain mysteries that will not be revealed to us now and we should be concentrating on things that the Lord DID make clear about the Gospel and salvation and the end times. That should give us a full plate!

  27. Test all things says:

    As a note on your understanding of hebrew text, Numbers 13:33 has the word Nephalim twice which is Fallen ones. Same as used in Genesis. It doesn’t mean distinguished. Some bible translators use distinguished, but this is a poor mistranslation. It helps to know the language. It’s important when building a case to have all of the facts.

  28. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Test all things

    Nonsense. “Fallen Onces” is not used, “Giants” is used. And if you READ the verse BEFORE verse 33 you will see something quite interesting… (taken from the KJV 1611)

    Numbers 13:32-33 (KJV 1611)
    32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. 33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

    You say TEST all things, but you do not. You can’t read 1 verse. You READ all verses, not just those mentioned above either. I have explained this in the article.

    Regading language…the word Giant here comes from the Hebrew word which refers here to stature.

  29. Carolyn says:

    Redeemed and All:

    Here’s what I take from the above post. We fly with our assumptions far too easily. Without extra biblical input, Genesis 6 and Jude 6 gives us some very scant information about that period. I don’t understand what went on back there. I also see that I have made connections by way of extra biblical texts which could transition into error if I don’t stay biblically grounded. And I agree that it was for wickedness that God judged both Noah’s generation and Sodom and Gomorrah. Wickedness on every level is pervasive.

    I have had a few times when I believe God disciplined me to keep me out of trouble. Because my Biblical framework of belief in him was lacking in my youth, I trespassed in territories I should not have. For instance, when I was doing a book report on UFOs. I was researching diligently. One night an immense round, UFO, flashing lights and all, (I can still picture it) landed in the yard outside my bedroom window. I felt the presence of evil and the sight was so vivid and frightening, as I awoke, I had to pull back the curtains and look out the window to make sure it wasn’t there. After reassuring myself that nothing was there, I crawled back under the covers with only my eyes showing and laid still while listening to my heart pounding.

    In this case, I believe God’s hand of protection was on me and he allowed such an experience to teach me that I was dealing with demons, not extra terrestrials. I dropped the research and chose a different topic. Because of this experience, I have never intentionally trespassed into supernatural realms, even for research purposes. I do see things in the occasional documentary, or news items, etc. But I do not crawl around in Satan’s domain, investigating areas that are forbidden to the Christian. We just do not need to know some things.

    The Nephillum teaching remains in the realm of speculation. It will stay there for me. I won’t be pursuing any doctrines based on those assumptions. And that’s where I am right now. I haven’t had much to do with Chuck Missler or Jacob Prasch as I am mostly on Gary Stearman’s site. And I’m not interested in reading their books, especially after the reactions I have witnessed here.

    On Gary’s site, I haven’t seen much promotion of these two, probably because they promote themselves well enough. I may not agree with Gary on everything, but I do respect him. He presents the gospel and has his Bible open when giving his daily updates on news items. It’s up to the individual to take what is said and study it out for himself. We are presented with food for thought by many individuals that he interviews on his show. Now I cannot say the same thing for some who seem to be supernatural addicts, promoting things from a worldview other than the Bible and sprinkling their quantum leaps with Scripture out of context. Same as New Agers do.

    As Christ continues to say to us…”beware!”

  30. Carolyn says:

    Re my previous post….Stronger terms needed here. I am seeing the diabolical nature of the Nephillum teaching and the Shadows of the Beast! It’s giving licence to the study of the occult so that we can recognize the Anti-Christ. But why would we have to recognize him when we aren’t looking for him? We are looking for Christ!

    Yes…JP and Missler are among many who are promoting a wrong focus that is diverting attention away from the positive expectation of Christ’s coming and putting it on the shadowy realms of darkness. I get it. My stronger terms are “Burn the books! Read the Bible!”

    And I was also thinking that Gary Stearman is pre-trib and that’s why he’s not promoting JP and Missler. (Lightbulb moment)

    Tom Horn is another big name that has us popping our heads through portals and peeping through windows of darkness. What are we doing in this occult world???? Research? Where will we end up? That’s the concern.

    Anyhow…I’m doing some thinking and a lot of sifting.

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