Tithing – Are you really robbing God if you don’t?

84 Responses

  1. Casper Venter says:

    Hi

    Thanks very much for this! I have been battling of tithing and to get to the truth about it all!

    Thanks Again

    Casper

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Awesome Casper!

  3. Andries Christian says:

    Thank you Chris – this is a wonderful piece. Very technical – though thoroughly thought through.

    I am convinced that this practice is really causing the body much more harm than we can fathom at present.

    The practice of tithing essentially makes it possible for Christians (often misguided) that feel Gods call on their life to start a church with as little as 6 members supporting them by tithing. Major Church groups support this as a “new way of distributing the gospel” – the next wave of missionary expansion. This is hugely problematic.

    Where I live, there are so many small (and well meaning – mostly) churches that are on life support due to no one pulling the plug on the pastor and tithing. However – it is causing the true universal church (the complete body I mean) much harm due to splits and all kinds of un-debated false doctrines flowing in. Yet these Churches can continue to function mostly autonomously (and accordingly open to much error) due to the financial stability provided by the tithe.

    What I enjoy about your piece is the balance that it brings around the responsibility of the believer to administer his finances well. I especially think that the balance of the Apostle Paul is needed with church leaders. Paul chooses not to take finances from the church in Corinth even though he is fully entitled to do so. (1 Cor 9) That message is needed today.

  4. Rich says:

    It’s interesting that Matthew 23:23 was left out. Everyone that reads this article, please read Matthew 23:23.

  5. Warren says:

    Rich wrote:

    It’s interesting that Matthew 23:23 was left out. Everyone that reads this article, please read Matthew 23:23.

    We have been set free from the curse of the Law, and tithing was part of that ceremonial Law. Did it occur to you that Christ was speaking to those under the Law?

  6. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Thanks Warren.

  7. Burning Lamp says:

    It is true that we are not under Law. However, we can’t toss out the OT as it is God’s Word. If we do not give God a portion of what He has blessed us with to further His work we are dishonoring Him. Exactly what that portion is, is between each believer and the Lord. One who uses the 10% as a sort of baseline and does not do it legalistically but rather joyfully out of love for the Lord will often go beyond that – whether it is on the gross or the net or whether one at times gives more as one is able is not giving out of obligation, but rather out of a response to the Holy Spirit. One who gives out of one’s heart seeks no reward, but seeks to glorify the Lord.

    There are those who truly cannot give anything, but they can give their time and their actions and their prayers. On the other hand there are those who could give but are not correctly taught and spend unwisely.

    Everything we have belongs to the Lord. To not have a desire to give to His work or to those in genuine need is a sign of a spiritual problem.

    There are those (not meaning this article) who cast the baby out with the bath and often this results in giving stingily or very little to the Lord’s work. The Bible says to give, but often man’s flesh says to hang onto our money out of one reason or another which in truth, negates faith in our Lord and His provision. The aim of giving should be out of a heart of gratitude and an attitude of sacrifice to serve others. But we are to give. It seems to me that the culprit is not the tithe itself, but rather improper teaching regarding giving.

  8. Burning Lamp says:

    I might add that the heavy hand of “clergy” in the area of mandatory tithing is one of the earmarks of a cult such as Mormonism. It also smacks of legalism in some fundamental circles which is all about control, human control which is not what the Lord wants. It leads to pride as to what one gives, it also rules out any role of the Holy Spirit. It is no one’s business what another gives and churches that preach biblical giving respect the anonymonity of the giver. The pastoral staff should not know what people give lest they curry favor to generous givers.

    We cannot outgive God, but we should not give to get as the properity teachers purport, lowering giving to God to the level of investing for profit. That is an insult to the Lord.

    The principle of godly giving supercedes any OT examples except to demonstrate the difference – one was under Law and one is under Grace.

  9. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    BL

    >> There are those who truly cannot give anything, but they can give their time and their actions and their prayers.

    You have a very good point there.

  10. Warren says:

    Burning Lamp – I agree with what you are saying, but I should have said more in my comment. Yes, the old testament is still scripture, but so many people hang on to ceremonial Law (the 633 or so little laws in Exodus, Leviticus, and Dueteronomy etc… )when in fact Paul spoke very plainly in Galations that we are not to hold to these Laws (these Laws are a shadow of things to come). Also, one cannot hold to one Law such as tithing and not practice the rest. Dont forget about the issue that was raised when the apostles met in Jerusalem over the matter where Jewish converts were forcing the gentile converts to be circumcised and the conclusion reached by the apostles (Acts 15 v 1 – 31).

    I have seen some churches push this tithing thing so far, that it almost comes down to the only time they actually preach condemnation, and that so that they have money to spend on things that dont really count (huge buildings with water and electricity charges that are through the roof, and on their lifestyles, etc…) whereas I do believe that we need to be generous for God has shown us generosity through Jesus coming to serve us, and giving His life as a sacrifice for our sins, and that money should be used to benifit the orphans, true widows, as well as furthering the gospel.

    The issue I have with tithing is that it is used as a tool to manipulate people. Churches seldom preach the message of salvation in a clear manner ( and I dont mean alter calls, as personally i do not agree with this since people sometimes do not understand fully what is going on and turn back to their old lifestyles . But the tithing and the curses that follow are preached to the point of overkill sometimes.

    I do apologise that my last comment was short, I should have clarified what I meant to say.

    Burning Lamp – I definitely agree with you, throwing out the baby with the bathwater is also wrong, since the new testament speaks often about generous gifts to those who NEED it.

  11. estelle says:

    I believe the church is robbing us of our induvidual blessings,I believe we should be a blessing to each other,we are our brother’s keeper.our storehouse should be full,If we give, God opens the windows for us,this is when we lending to God, by giving to those in our portals.It is giving to the poor ,the widow,the orphan and the stranger,It is also the 4 overcoming spirits that we need to overcome ourselves. We have to become overcomers of all negative things in our lives.I have always had this feeling in my spirit about tithing to the church and when someone knocks on my door and i dont have I am in a crises because i had to turn someone away.I would love to hear your opinion about it. love and peace.

  12. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    estelle

    I am a bit confused at your comment (maybe because I have a massive headache today and dunno whether I am coming or going…) but for instance what do you mean by… “It is also the 4 overcoming spirits that we need to overcome ourselves.”?

  13. Redeemed says:

    I don’t quite understand either Estelle. We don’t “lend” to God, we GIVE to Him a portion of what He has supplied. It ALL belongs to Him, but we should set aside a portion of what He has provided to return back for His work and to help others.

  14. Helen says:

    I don’t tithe money not anymore to church (The building), I tithed 10 percent each sunday beleiving my money would get better, it didn’t. Cos it doesn’t work! What does work, is tithing a small amount to a friend (What church truly is)in tightening the belt situation herself, for petrol money and Thank God my money hasn’t sunk so it has run out! As it was before. THAT works. (I do keep to a tight budget) I tithe to church (building)my time and energy instead.

  15. Great article!

    Tithing was only food and livestock and it never referred to earned income.

    The break down total of all three tithes: 20% over a 7-year period / 23.3% over a 6 year period are given below:

    Year 1 = 10% (Tithe #1) + 10% (Tithe #2) = 20%
    Year 2 = 10% (Tithe #1) + 10% (Tithe #2) = 20%
    Year 3 = 10% (Tithe #1) + 10% (Tithe #2) + 10% (Tithe #3) = 30%
    Year 4 = 10% (Tithe #1) + 10% (Tithe #2) = 20%
    Year 5 = 10% (Tithe #1) + 10% (Tithe #2) = 20%
    Year 6 = 10% (Tithe #1) + 10% (Tithe #2) + 10% (Tithe #3) = 30%

    Year 7 = 0% – the seventh year land Sabbath (Exodus 23:10-11, Leviticus 25:20-22 and Deuteronomy 31:10-13) – Shmita (Hebrew: שמיטה, literally “release”), also called the Sabbatical Year, is the seventh year of the seven-year agricultural cycle mandated by the Torah for the Land of Israel.

    140% / 7 = 20% – in 7 years

    140% / 6 = 23.3 % – in 6 years

    Also the early church had five fold ministries and how can a single Pastor collect the whole tithe?

    Matthew 23:23

    Tithing was not the primary subject in Matt 23:23 / Luke 11:42
    During the time of Jesus all 3 tithes were practiced as recorded by Flavius Josephus, Apocryphal book of Tobit, Church fathers Jerome and Chrisostam (extra Biblical proofs for 3 tithes)

    -Tithing Study

  16. Martin Horan says:

    A really excellent study!
    I loved every bit of it because my wife and I were members of the Armstrongite cult for about 20 years. We had Malachi 3:8-9 hammered into us.
    No wonder the ministry had such great lifestyles!
    And though I’ve known for some time that it is neither biblical nor logical to follow tithing rules, I have still had a bit of a guilt trip for not tithing. This is in spite of the fact that we left the Worldwide Church of God in the mid nineties or thereabouts.
    This amazing study has truly driven the point home to me. I will re-read it a few times. It is incredibly encouraging. I have just said a prayer for it that it may bless many others.
    It is surprising how many intelligent and well-educated people get involved in cults and a lot of the other flaky doctrines out there. I myself never cease to be amazed that I fell for such junk. But it happens all the time. This whole blog is incredible and there is much to thank you for on it; and there is much on it which will be delivering folk from false teaching. But I thank you again for the tithing teaching. I’m fairly sure my guilt trips will now disappear.

  17. harry says:

    Thank you great lesson here hope pastors all over can read it.

  18. w says:

    The early church did not tithe, they had all things in common. Scripture says, as a man determines in his heart so let him give. I attended a church where the people were told, IF you do not tithe to this church, you are not welcome here. I had heard all my life people say, I do not go to church because all they want is my money. I always answered that is no true. You need salvation. You need to hear the Word. This pastor just proved this church was all about money. We are to give gifts and offerings. Many churches no longer accept tithes, they were shocked that they income increased. While attending this church there was a woman whose husband had run off with a younger woman leaving his wife and children destitute. She worked babysitting to support herself and her children. The Lord spoke to me to buy her food that she may have food in her storehouse, the Temple was within her. I have seen widows and the poor do without to pay their ten percent. The church is not the Temple today, there is no Temple/Levite priest to collect the tithe. We are not under the Old Law. People do not know the Word, that Mal 3 is not speaking to us today. Yeshua/Jesus is our High Priest today. I have seen senior pastors live very well while the others on their staff nearly starved, many quit the ministry. I am grateful many are teaching the truth..so many say give me your money and God will bless you for giving to me, they buy planes, mansions and live having millions and claim it is what God wants. No, it is what they want. The giving to get is the norm in the so called Church these days. Many have heard this msg but few believe it. All did not tithe in the O.T., it was about produce and not money. Scripture says my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, ignorance of the Word. Ministers teach what they were taught and bring forward the old law for people to keep. Thank you for this article.

  19. dboy says:

    The apostolic movement talk about , Tithing,Offerings and Firstfruits. Firstfruits and tithes go to the “SET MAN” as he is a distributor of the bread and wine. He is the Melchiezedek??

  20. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    dboy

    >> The apostolic movement talk about , Tithing,Offerings and Firstfruits. Firstfruits and tithes go to the “SET MAN” as he is a distributor of the bread and wine. He is the Melchiezedek??

    SET MAN? What the? Anyhow…are you asking or telling us? If you are asking us the answer is no, if you are telling us, the answer is still no. Read the Article PLEASE :)

  21. John says:

    First a few principles that need to be understood…………

    Malachi 3:6a “For I am the Lord, I change not”

    Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”

    Matthew 5:17 Jesus says “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil”

    It has been argued that tithing is not a part of the New Testament. I believe that it is and that it is just as important today as it was in the Old Testament. It reveals where our heart is. I believe that studies such as this one is an attempt to worship Mammon and excuse themselves from the responsibility God has given to us as stewards of His possessions. I’m not going to give an in depth study, one for times sake, two because in this setting it would be pointless, and three I’m tired and have a massive headache. So I’ll keep it brief.

    As mentioned God never changes. His attitude towards us has not changed. His attitude towards sin has not changed. His expectations for us concerning the Law has not changed. Let me say that again. His expectations for us concerning the Law has not changed…..Blasphemy you say. We’re saved by grace..etc..etc…blah, blah, blah. What did Jesus say……I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. When Jesus died, did the 10 commandments all of a sudden disappear? Is it now ok to commit adultery? Murder? Covet? No. What did Paul say….Should we sin that Grace may abound? Of course not. What is sin? It is lawlessness. What is Lawlessness? It is the violation of the law. Without the law there is no sin, yet we are exhorted by Paul and the other writers not to sin. Therefore the law still exists and we are expected to keep it. All throughout the New Testament we are commanded not to sin. How can we sin if there is no law to break? You say the law exists but because of Jesus we are not under the law, but grace….Think about that statement. What is Paul talking about when he said this? Is it not salvation and the atonement already made for our sins? Would you be so foolish to think that God’s standard of living for our lives no longer exists? If nothing else, it exists in the Person of Jesus Christ….LOL What are we to do concerning Him? Are we not told to imitate Him? Are we not told to imitate Paul? DID THEY TITHE? If Jesus lives in you, then you should want to keep the law because it pleases Him. The only portions of the law that we are not to keep are the sacrificial portions. Why? Jesus fulfilled them. This isn’t legalism, this is OBEDIENCE TO GOD and His commands for our life. The truth of this is seen in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus reiterates to keep the Law and ADDS TO IT! Under grace carries more responsibility than the law…For example Adultery is no longer just sleeping with a married woman. Now you only have to look upon her with lust to be guilty. Murder is no longer physically killing a person, now it is hatred…You see the increase in responsibility? Every time Paul addresses the law, he’s talking about trusting it for salvation instead of Jesus. The law shows us our sinfulness. It keeps us humble. The Pharisees misunderstood this as well, which is why Jesus said I didn’t come to abolishi it, but to fulfill it. Big difference. That understood….

    Tithing is not legalism, it is an act of worship. It is obedience to God. We are commanded to tithe Prov 3:9 “Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase”, and if we don’t we are “robbing” God Mal 3:8. You say that was for the Priests….Who does Peter say that we are? 1 Pet 2:9 says we are a royal priesthood with Jesus as our High Priest. Spin it how you want, but that is the bottom line. Thus we should be obedient and BRING our tithe. The statement was made that they tithed with animals not money so it doesn’t apply….You need to understand that their flocks determined their wealth. They were to tithe with the firstfuits (that means gross) of all their increase (that includes money). You say THAT’S OLD TESTAMENT. Fine look at the New Testament….Hebrews 7. This scripture was used earlier in this post using only verse 12. But it was used in error. The context of the entire chapter points to Jesus as our High Priest and compares Him to Melchizadek whom Abraham paid tithes to. So does this abolish the tithe? Absolutely not, it establishes Jesus as the High Priest to whom our tithe is paid. Who is Jesus, is he not the Head of the Church? Eph 1:22-23 says that He is head of the church which is His body. Now you can argue that the church is not a building, etc…..You would be correct only that when you give your tithe, you are not giving to a building, you are giving to support the work of the church which are the people who happen to assemble in a building. Who supported Paul’s ministry? Was it not the church? You say that was a separate “love” offering….You can spin 2 Cor 9 however you want to. The bottom line is that tithing in the New Testament was not done away with. Paul was not speaking of tithes there. It was ALREADY UNDERSTOOD to the readers that you were to tithe. It was part of their culture and NOT ONE of the New Testament writers condemned it or corrected any church for doing it. If nothing else Hebrews confirms we are to tithe to our High Priest Jesus.

    Bottom Line, God doesn’t change. His expectations haven’t changed. Why do we keep trying to say that they have? God has commanded us to tithe. We should be obedient and do so.

  22. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    John

    You clearly DIDN’T READ THE ARTICLE! And go ahead with your OWN OPINION anyhow.

  23. John says:

    [delete – I don’t want your false teaching on this website]

  24. John says:

    Furthermore, tithing is God’s provision for the church and it’s ministries. With this line of thinking, it’s no wonder that churches are struggling to keep their heads above water.

    [edited by DTW – LOL, maybe if you behaved like the disciples did in the bible who hardly had anything to their name, no home, no clothes, beaten, to preach the gospel, then you will realise ‘YOUR BUSINESS’ in making money is UNGODLY]

  25. John says:

    [deleted – sorry I don’t want your false teaching on this website – I’ve given you the truth – this website is NOT run like a democrasy]

  26. Pietie says:

    Luke 16:9

    And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon , that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home.

    These were the words of Jesus.

    What does it really mean:

    It means that by giving money to the church which is the body of Christ you will make friends in heaven. For with the money you have given, people got saved through Jesus. The money is used to build the building and the maintenance, to feed the pastors and there families, for feeding scemes, for outreach to the poor. To pay the bills. To purchase equipment. You got saved because someone invited you to a church and you accepted Jesus as your Saviour. Would there have been an church if people did not tithe? In the new Testament the saved people sold all that they had and gave all to the church.

    Acts 2:45 and sold their posessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

    If you are not under the law anymore is it therefor okey to murder?

    Matt 2:21-22 You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgement. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement. And whoever says to his brother, Raca! shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Tithing is a test.

    We should do more than Tithe, we must also offer additional money.

    Matt 6:21 For where you treasure is, there your heart will be also.

  27. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pietie

    Luke 16:9

    And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon , that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home.

    These were the words of Jesus.

    What does it really mean:

    It means that by giving money to the church which is the body of Christ you will make friends in heaven. For with the money you have given, people got saved through Jesus. The money is used to build the building and the maintenance, to feed the pastors and there families, for feeding scemes, for outreach to the poor. To pay the bills. To purchase equipment. You got saved because someone invited you to a church and you accepted Jesus as your Saviour. Would there have been an church if people did not tithe? In the new Testament the saved people sold all that they had and gave all to the church.

    Tithing is wrong, GIVING JOYFULLY WHATEVER YOU WANT to WHOMEVER YOU want to give is BIBLICAL!

    Instead of giving to churches, you can give directly to the poor, or directly to a missionary of your choice, or you can give to a Christian organisation of your choice. You do not have to be bullied into giving tithing to a pastor who does not even preach the gospel, just so he can feather his own nest.

    Luke 16:9 To illustrate. Suppose the Lord Jesus has entrusted an amount of money to you, and you say, “God has given me this money. I am going to give a certain portion of it to help send the gospel to heathen lands.” And you contribute regularly to some missionary, and because of your support that missionary is enabled to go forth and present the gospel to lost souls. Here on earth you may never see those who have been won through that missionary’s efforts; but by-and-by, when you leave this scene and go home to heaven; you will find there those who will greet you with gladness as they say, “It was your money that enabled the teacher to come to me and to lead me out of the darkness of heathenism into the light of the gospel of Christ. We have been waiting here to welcome you into these everlasting habitations and to tell you how grateful we are to you for the interest which you took in us!” You can apply the principle in a thousand ways. You may use some of your money to help a poor, needy brother or sister, or to assist some underprivileged children. Your kindness and goodness to them may never be fully appreciated or recognized here on earth, but the day will come, if they are in Christ, when they will meet you in yonder land and express their gratitude to you for the way in which you used the mammon of unrighteousness. — Dr Henry Ironside

    If you are not under the law anymore is it therefor okey to murder?

    Now that is just silly, do you not know that…

    Matthew 5:17 Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

    Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    Jesus fulfills the law and has written it into my heart. I GIVE (Grace) I do not TITHE (Law)

    You are under LAW – You are cursed.

    Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

  28. Pietie says:

    [deleted – not allowing you your false doctrine on this website]

  29. Pietie says:

    [deleted – not allowing you your false doctrine on this website]

  30. Pietie says:

    Even before the law, Moses gave a tithe to Melchizedek. So Tithing was even done before the law

    Genesis 14: 18-20
    18Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19And he blessed him and said:
    “Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
    Possessor of heaven and earth;
    20And blessed be God Most High,
    Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
    And he gave him a tithe of all.

    In stead of deleting this section again as false doctrine because you cannot proove the verse wrong, read it again and ask the Holy Spirit for understanding

    Blessings to you

  31. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pietie

    This situation was exactly the same situation as when Abraham tithes THE SPOILS OF WAR to God for saving them – the BLESSES GOD.

    Genesis 14:14-20
    14 When Abram heard that his nephew had been taken captive, he mobilized his 318 trained men who had been born in his household, and he pursued the invaders as far as Dan.
    15 Then, during the night, Abram divided his forces against them and defeated them. He chased them as far as Hobah, which is north of Damascus.
    16 He retrieved all the stolen property. He also brought back his nephew Lot and his possessions, as well as the women and the rest of the people.
    17 After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet Abram in the Valley of Shaveh (known as the King’s Valley).
    18 Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (Now he was the priest of the Most High God.)
    19 He blessed Abram, saying, ​​​​​​“Blessed be Abram by the Most High God, ​​​​​​Creator of heaven and earth.
    20 ​​​​​​​Worthy of praise is the Most High God, ​​​​​​who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of everything.

    This was done ONCE by Abraham, this was done because God saved them out of a war.

    Are you tithing because you are blessing God because with SPOILS FROM A WAR? No YOU ARE NOT!

    This is IN THE ARTICLE Pietie, YOU HAVE NOT READ THE ARTICLE

    This is what it says in the article…

    People bent on tithing will also quote:

    Gen:14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the highest God.

    Gen:14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

    Gen: 14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

    This is to “prove” that tithing was established before the time of Moses, the Torah or law and that tithes have to be given to the priest. To find out what the Melchizedek tithe meant one has to not only read this passage, but also read on to verses 22 & 23.

    From verse 18 – 20 it is clear that this was not Abraham’s belongings which was tithed, but rather the booty or loot he had gathered from conquering the enemy.

    Gen:14:22: And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

    Gen:14:23: That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

    Although he gave away 10% of the booty, he stated that he did not even want any of it, because it was not his.

    It is also interesting to note that this was a ONCE OFF event, which never took place again.

  32. John says:

    If you are not under the law anymore is it therefor okey to murder? – (Pietie)
    Now that is just silly, do you not know that… Deborah’s response

    To Deborah, so what you are saying is that we have to keep a portion of the law but not all of it? You’re talking from both sides of your mouth. You must be consistent in your teaching if you want to maintain credibility. You are not consistent.

    Tithing was part of the law…you said God writes the law in our heart yet “TITHING IS WRONG”. I’m confused. If tithing is part of the law and God writes that law in our heart, how is tithing wrong?

  33. John says:

    [deleted – please stop spamming this blog with false teaching – I have blocked you from commenting. If you want to follow the LAW, by all means do so but do not force other too. Are you sure you are not a pastor (a youth pastor by any chance?) – Pastors are notorious as the love to force people into BONDAGE by means of tithing. You will twist the scriptures to no ends to get money! Woe to you. ]

  34. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    John

    Tithing was part of the law…you said God writes the law in our heart yet “TITHING IS WRONG”. I’m confused. If tithing is part of the law and God writes that law in our heart, how is tithing wrong?

    10 Commandments was the discussion John. Does tithing form part of the 10 commandments? I must be losing it if you say yes.

    If tithing is written into your heart (supposedly) then I assume all other 613 JEWISH LAWS ARE WRITTEN THERE AS WELL and you keep them like clock work. I hope so for your sake MR LAW ABIDING citizen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

  35. Andy says:

    That’s the issue. If a person wants to tithe, it can’t be money. It has to be spices and other things as the law said. And with that part of the law, they must keep the rest of the law in sinless perfection.

    As for me, I’ll be under grace, and give offerings in money of whatever I choose to give or not give.

  36. Redeemed says:

    Not being under Law does not negate setting aside a portion of our increase for the Lord what ever we choose to call it. The greater guiding principle is that we are not under obligation to do so. We should WANT to do so because we LOVE the Lord and it should give us great JOY to participate in the work of the Lord as that should be a desire of a heart that has been born-again.

    God is a God of order. What too often can happen is that if there is not a PLAN, giving to the Lord’s work can go by the wayside and the monies are all eaten up with bills and other expenses. If we budget for food, rent and other things and neglect to budget for the Lord, what does that say about us as believers?

    The main thing is that God is a PRIORITY in our lives and often one of the last areas people are willing to relinquish is finances. Haphazard giving, tossing a few bucks in the offering plate or box or dashing off a check in haste do not reflect thoughtful consideration and leading of the Holy Spirit.

  37. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Redeemed

    John and Pietie wont be happy with that answer, they want you UNDER LAW.

  38. Colin Ford says:

    We all know that No man can keep the law, if he could he would be perfect! He would not need a Saviour!
    The law is the way of life, NOT the way to life!
    The ceremonial/priestly law was abolished when the Saviour was crucified on the cross, NOT the moral law. The moral law is binding on all believers,this is the law that is written on our hearts; Hebrews 8.10.
    The moral law, being the ten commandments are the believers way of life, NOT to life.
    Tithing was an OT law that was relevant when the temple was standing.
    However I have yet to meet a Churchman,Reverend,Pastor who is part of any form of organized religion that teaches against tithing!
    ‘God loveth a cheerful giver’ 2 Corinthians 9.7.

  39. Redeemed says:

    Why is it that folks like John and Pietie just can’t seem to understand the difference between serving God out of a heart motivated by LOVE and serving Him out of obligation and through gritted teeth? The letter of the Law kills while grace produces peace and joy. I would much rather have the latter. It is a PRIVILEGE to give to the Lord. And I have found over many years that you just can’t outgive God. This is not prosperity piffle, it is the law of sowing and reaping. We don’t give in order to get if our hearts are right.
    John and Pietie are robbing themselves of a blessing!

  40. Robbie says:

    Redeemed

    I think two reasons and it is either.

    1. I am God and determine my own destination or…
    2. I pay pastors to read the Word for me

    We need to go on to maturity

    ‘5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,’ (Hebrews 5:14 – 6:1)

  41. Pietie says:

    Hi There

    Look, you do not have to tithe to get to heaven. But tithing is biblicle and why does Jesus say that we must still tithe. Matt 23:23

    If we want our money to be blessed then we need to tithe. Mal 3:8-10

    If we want more souls to be saved then we need to tithe and offer. Luke 16:9

    Yes Jesus has fulfilled the law for us and not through our own works but through Jesus do we have salvation.

    We still need to live holy lives: Gal 5:16-26 Gal 6:6-10 1Cor 5:9-11 Rom 6:11-23

    But if you want the church of Jesus to grow through souls that are saved and if you want your money to be blessed then you need to tithe as least. Tithing is the minimum requirement.

    Then again, I can preach tithing, because I tithe, and since I have been tithing the rest of my finances are blessed. Now I cannot afford not to tithe, its the best payment I do because I know that more souls will be saved because i gave.

    Bless you all.

  42. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pietie

    Let me explain this verse to you properly…

    Matthew 23:23
    23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

    FIRSTLY: Tithing was only food and livestock and it never referred to earned income.

    Verse explanation: To tithe even the cheapest of herbs was no problem, but to add special emphasis upon this and advertise it as though indicating something remarkably conscientious, while neglecting matters of far greater importance, indicated a conscience that was out of touch with reality and a spirit that was not subject to God. Jesus would have those who professed obedience to His law to be careful when exercising discernment, justice, mercy and faith. He who is conscientious and spirit led, will not neglect these things either.

    This kinda sounds like those people crying foul on this blog, stressing that they pay their tithes just so that they can have their finances blessed. Or pay their tithes and therefore think they think they more special than the next person. Or make sure they pay more than the person next to them thinking God will favour them more more than the person next to them.

    No amount of money funneled into a church that is preaching false teaching is going to save souls – you’re only aiding and abetting the growth of false teachers.

    Is this a tithing verse for the Christian church? NO! At that stage they were still under Law.

  43. Truthful Conversation says:

    We had the ‘usual’ tithing sermons with all the guilt associated, at the large evangelical church that I attended in Cape Town. This church grew extremely quickly and of course it was due to all the people that attended and tithed their 10 (and plus) per cent. The founding pastor drove a smart car and had a big house in a rich part of Cape Town, and he was always dressed immaculately. A huge building was purchased to accommodate the growing number and the aforesaid pastor travelled overseas quite frequently.

    I believed whatever I was told about tithing, after all, these men of God were awesome, and they seemed so blessed financially! The ‘basket’ was always passed around at services (many baskets actually) and it overflowed. We had a special service one sunday when we were asked to give until it was painful. I placed my gold, ruby and diamond ring (bought for me by my mum after my father died), and my gold bracelet ( a birthday present from my mum-in-law) gleefully into the basket and praised the Lord.

    I just want to say at this point that I have no problem with tithing, my problem is with the church and leaders who brainwash their flock into tithing, and tithing more than many people can afford to tithe. I personally trusted the Lord to help my husband and myself through our financial problems by tithing, not to make us wealthy. The Lord did come through for us, but I realise later that He did so because He loved me, over and above what I gave to Him. God knew what I was being taught and that I was deceived. I also believe that He saw that I gave with joy.

    At this point, I had also been introduced into the Word Faith doctrine, so I was even more convinced that I needed to tithe. My church had a bible school and my husband and myself attended for two years (also under duress). We paid alot of money for bible school ( and I learned alot of rubbish!). In fact many ‘opportunities’ were offered to the congregation continuously..seminars, ladies, mens, ladies tea functions, leadership courses, marriage courses..and all at a hefty price.

    The Lord has helped me immeasurably since I moved to the UK nine years ago. I have battled financially and in other ways too, and He has always seen me through. I have not attended a church and not tithed. At one stage I supported a little girl in India until it became too expensive. I have recently had my income cut by half and although it is concerning, I know the Lord will see me through again.

    If I reach a point where I can give to the Lord financially again, I will do so. Until then, I will give how and where I can.

  44. Esi Mankartah says:

    Hi Deborah, I find your discussions on tithing an interesting read. Good work! I would like to share another interesting view on why right giving may be more important than just simply tithing today.
    There were specific instructions on tithing, how to give it, who was authorized to receive it (Levites). If we are not in the temple era then we should be rather doing what the early apostles did. Acts 4:32 – 35 may seem intense but it demonstrates exactly what money and possessions given to the church is to be mainly used for, which is meeting the needs of the brethren without any discrimination. The story of Ananias demonstrates that no one is under compulsion but as each of us it to give as we purpose in our hearts. If we rather give hypocritically, such as portraying that what we give is a tenth of our income when it is not, we lie to the Holy Spirit.
    I had an interesting conversation with a believer friend about why we need to give, and here I am not trying to be scholarly or politically correct.
    The train of thought is this; before Adam sinned in the garden he was a living soul made up of spirit, soul and body. In God’s likeness he could walk with God as a spirit being and connect to his environment through the spirit. When he sinned, his spirit died and his body became the means of communicating with his environment, then he saw through his body’s (natural)eyes for the first time.
    The work of Jesus was to restore us to that original state and to do that,
    our spirits had to be born again. Jesus said we should let our light shine referring to our spirits growing stronger and brighter as God is light. Like Adam we are now to walk by the spirit, discern by the spirit and not walk by our natural sight, 2 Cor 5:7.

    Our souls are fattened through giving, which is also how God expressed his love for us in giving his son. In Ps 106:15 shows how the soul grows lean and Prov 11:25 says the liberal soul shall be made fat.
    Our bodies are to be brought under subjection through fasting and refraining from satisfying the lusts of the flesh. Paul says in Gal 5:24 that we are to crucify the flesh along with its lusts, since this flesh is under a curse and will be put away when we finally put on immortality.

    1. Jesus asked us clearly to do three things regularly in Matt 6 Give, pray and fast.

    Giving is to strengthen our soul
    Praying is to communicate with God
    Fasting is to bring our bodies and fleshly desires under subjection.
    This is in line with the work of redemption and restoration of the master, and giving plays a major role in it.

    2. If our objective is to do what Jesus will require of us in Matt 25;32 – 46. It will guide our giving. Not to please a pastor, but the master. If we give in our churches and turn a blind eye to the practice of Acts 4:35 we may be passively fueling the neglect of the needs of the “least of our brethren”. Obeying Matt 25:32 is clearly in the Lords agenda for rewarding his church.
    3. Jesus in speaking about tithing also said in Mat 23:23, (cited by Rich) that the weightier matters of judgment, mercy, and faith were omitted in the issue of tithing, under the law. What the teachers of the law would not do then was judge fairly, they were critical, fault finders, were unmerciful and shut up their bowels of compassion towards widows, orphans and the needy and unbelieving.
    4. Some of the vices; jealousy, covetousness, envy, malice etc., that may plague believers in Rom 1: 29 could be subdued by a liberal spirit, Estelle’s comment about “It is also the 4 overcoming spirits that we need to overcome ourselves could well be linked to a giving and liberal spirit.

  45. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Esi

    Interesting that you don’t mention repentance of sin. To most ‘believers’ “giving” has become a way of trying to covering up those vices that plague believers.

    There is NO CHURCH today that behaves at Acts 4:32–35 because they are all WICKED to the bone.

    People need to repent of their sin first and get their lives right with God before they think about giving their money away with ultimately becomes nothing but good works.

  46. Esi says:

    Hi Deborah,
    Thanks for your comments. I sort of assumed salvation through the blood, repentance from sin,baptism and infilling of the HS etc as outlined in Hebr 6:1,2 as foundations to our walk in Christ.
    A question; what must we strive for in the area of good works looking at Mat 5:16,Rev 14:13 and Mat 25:32 -46.

  47. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Esi

    >> A question; what must we strive for in the area of good works looking at Mat 5:16,Rev 14:13 and Mat 25:32 -46.

    Whatever the Holy Spirit wants you to do, not what you think will please God. The greatest commandment was to preach the gospel, but in order to do that you need to know the truth! So first things first, make sure you know the gospel before you go out and feed someone, there is no point in giving them bread but you don’t give them the GOSPEL which is the REAL FOOD for their souls. There are many ‘professing’ Christians doing ‘good works’ but they have no relationship with Jesus Christ – they do these good works because they think they are appeasing God and it will get them into heaven, but they live sinful lives.

  48. daniel says:

    hello again… can you email me this letter or letters
    i listed what im asking about below taking from above

    In my possession I have an e-mail of an ex-charismatic senior pastor of Rhema ,who calls the “prospering church” he belonged to “The seat of Satan”

    i wnat to read that email plz… if you can please..
    i came out of the WOF and when God opened my eyes to the deception He aslo showed me about the tithing lie too … then one day i got an anonymous email with this link …
    http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

    anyway thanks for your time researching all this things
    sincerly
    daniel

  49. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    danel

    >> can you email me this letter or letters
    >> i listed what im asking about below taking from above

    I am dunno what you are speaking about…. errr :)

  50. Clif says:

    This is a little thought I had…
    THE OFFERING.

    A REFLECTION ON EXODUS

    Those more familiar with the Book and story of Exodus than I, are aware that we have the details of the crossing of the Red Sea, out of Egypt, the giving of the Law and the detailed construction of the Tabernacle under Gods instructions.

    In Exodus I noted some interesting verses with regards to ‘offerings’.

    In Chapter 31:1 it says:
    ‘And The Lord spake unto Moses saying, See, I have called by name Bezaleel …..
    (v3) And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship.
    This calling also applied to Aholiab …..and in the hearts of all the wisehearted I have put wisdom. ….

    In Exodus 35 v5 it says
    ‘ Take ye from among you an OFFERING UNTO THE LORD; whosoever IS OF A WILLING HEART, let Him bring it, an offering of the Lord:

    And v10
    And every wisehearted among you shall come, and make all that the Lord have commanded’…..
    v 21 ‘ And they came everyone whose HEART STIRRED Him up, and EVERYONE whom His Spirit made willing and they brought the Lords offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation…..’
    (v22) And they came, both men and women as many as were willing hearted.
    ( v29) The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the Lord, every man and woman whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work,…’

    In Ex 36: v3 it says
    And they received of Moses all the offerings which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary;……And they BROUGHT yet unto Him FREE OFFERINGS every morning”….

    and these wise men came to Moses with a ‘complaint’ if you please…….
    Ex 36: v5
    ‘The PEOPLE bring MUCH MORE than enough for the service of the work’…..
    (v6) And Moses gave commandment; and they ‘ CAUSED it to be PROCLAIMED throughout the Camp saying ‘ Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the Santuary so the
    PEOPLE WERE RESTRAINED from BRINGING’. ….
    (v7) For the stuff they had was SUFFICIENT for ALL the work to make it.
    And TO MUCH’.

    Now an interesting fact I read with regards to the Passover, is that some Jews, celebrate with 4 cups of Wine, each has its own symbolic meaning.
    The First Cup……YOU RESCUED ME
    The Second….. YOU SAVED ME
    The Third……..YOU REDEEMED ME
    The Forth Cup….. YOU TOOK ME TO BE YOUR CHILD.

    For the Wisehearted,
    who have been
    rescued,
    saved,
    redeemed
    and adopted as a Child of God,
    IF that be YOU….
    Then contemplating, Ex 35 v5 ‘ Take ye from among you an OFFERING unto the LORD; whosever IS OF A WILLING HEART, let Him bring it, an offering of the Lord:…. v 21 ‘ And they came everyone whose HEART STIRRED Him up, and EVERYONE whom His Spirit made willing and they brought the Lords offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation…..’ (v22) And they came, both men and women as many as were willing hearted.

    In Philippians, think on Pauls response to substance provided
    V18…… “ the things that were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well pleasing to God”
    V19 “ But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in Glory by Christ Jesus”

    So why this Music plays,
    ( I Will not Forget – by Mia Fieldes and Christ Tabernacle Choir)
    ….ask God, as He has blessed you, as your circumstances and obligations dictate… think on, and let the wisehearted, give their offerings as the Spirit directs.

  51. Clif says:

    This sis from the web…

    Recently, I was watching a TV “ministry” (hucksters) who were urging people to send them money and they were guaranteeing a 100 fold return on the seed-faith money. Well, if I took them at their word and started with “sowing” $10 a week, I should start expecting to receive a $1000 a week in return. If after that I gave 10 percent of the $1000 ($100) I received per week, I could then expect to receive $100,000 per week. If after that I gave 10 percent of the $100,000 ($10,000) per week, I could then expect to receive $10, 000, 000 per week. In nine weeks I would be richer than Bill Gates (net worth ~ $30 billion) who is an atheist and does not give anything to the Lord’s work. The following table summarizes the results:
    Period Amount Given ($) Amount Received ($)
    1 10 1000
    2 100 10,000
    3 1000 100,000
    4 10,000 1,000,000
    5 100,000 10,000,000
    6 1,000,000 100,000,000
    7 10,000,000 1,000,000,000
    8 100,000,000 10,000,000,000
    9 1,000,000,000 100,000,000,000

    If instead I gave this amount once a year, I still would be the richest man in the world in ten years. If this is really what Jesus meant, then why do these “ministers” have to ask for money at all? Could not they apply the same principles and reap the money themselves?
    Sound Ridiculous? Sure it is! But no more so than the extravagant promises made day in and day out by the hucksters on televisio

  52. Clif says:

    The Israelites illustrated that there was a journey to be made, from hell to heaven. Religion teaches the journey is to ‘see you next week’,. Lets not forget that it is in Babylon during Israels captivity that they adopted the secret ‘mysteries of the babylonian Gods’ which is why Jesus said they were of the ‘ Synagogue of Satan’, that their father was the father of lies and a murderer from the start. Rome is descended from these very same roots and the Church is going home.

    It seems that generations upon generations of exulted religious teachers, who being raised in and through the religious system were of that system, and teach what they knew, the system. Though they deny it and say they teach Christ, but teach as sacred the doctrines and traditions that have little to do with Jesus Christ but all to do with perpetrating the system, the talking shops our Churches have become, the auditoriums of self-promotion and self-enrichment, more in common with the world than the servant Jesus Christ, if they were not, our Churches would be empty and our communities alive with Christ.As such they were schooled as the children of the Rome – of the serpant, and there the greatest deception lies. For Satan does not preach Jesus Christ ( I am The Way) but entertains with fairground
    rides of this world, knowing if the roundabout goes on long enough, the only place it will stop is Hell. But we are entertained, we are happy, we have ‘ fellowship’ ( ha ha ) and the Serpant hisses and knows that he has blinded us and our fate is doom.
    For in this system Paul reminded us about ‘another Gospel’ and ‘ coming again under the precepts of the Law’. Satans deception through religion is to blind us, to get just one pinch of the Law into the ‘mix’ and those that ‘ ‘obey’ are no longer under Grace, no longer following the Gospel that the Disciples taught, but have placed themselves under the Law, they have rejected Christ, they will be judged by the Law.
    The most striking example I can find of this is the ‘Tithing’ mafia- like extortion racket that it prevelant in so many Churches. I can find no EXCUSE for this, Tithing is Law…Law is dead. WE are under Grace and Grace giving from the Heart as directed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. When preached as a LIE in our Churches it is placing those that participate under the Law and Christ is of no good to them.
    Iit was not until about 500 AD that Tithing got a reral mention, 600 – 1000 AD before it got to the UK, as late as 1875 the USA…..and the original instigator, to fund its bloated Institutions and false Priesthood….is traced back….to….Rome.
    How about your Church management, ever wondered why it seems modelled on the the World (Purpose Driven) and not Biblical principles?….again the deceit is hidden very deep. Through Rome your Church is operating an ‘abolished’ corrupt Levitical Priesthood where THEY are the ‘ordained’ ( by man one might add or by self) and you are divided into ‘porters. Musicians, choir’ and Layiety, no five-fold Ministry here, no sharing of the ‘tithe profits’ allowed ( unless its to cronmies or family). As stated by the Word of God YOU are a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD ordained by Christ Himself. So tell me who or what robs YOU of your position and authority in Christ??..further and why??. Unbeknown, by deceit you are Worshiping under the OT Priest System ( heaven help you if you are at Bethel or Gilgal – see the Book of Amos) , it begs the question in this system, despite the proclaimations, where is Jesus Christ??…no wonder they are able and feel justified to so freely talk about blessings and curses all the time, as was the case under Old Testement Law but for those under Grace

    “Therefore. There is now no comdemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because thriough Christ Jesus the LAW of the SPIRIT of LIFE set me free from the LAW of SIN AND DEATH” ( Rom 8: 1 – 2)

    The OT Priesthood had an annointing upon, the OT Priesthood was before the Cross, before the Abiding in, in itself, by its very Nature, saying it proclaims Grace, but denys Christ and all that Worship under it , do so by consent. This imitation Jewish Tempkle that is called Church by its form denies that Christ has come in the flesh.

    This is Satans greatest in-house deceit, preached by the deceived, who should repent but no, Churches ande Ministries operate on the precepts of this Worlds and the provision and accumulation of mammon, whist condeming the sheep to die in the desert. Though they deny this of course, they by their actions deny much that is of Christ.

    But if it be truer yet, that the priesthood of Aaron typified a better reality, 1 Pet. 2. 5, signifying the Christian true and “holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifice;” it follows hence, that we are now justly exempt from paying tithes to any who claim from Aaron, since that priesthood is in us now real, which in him was but a shadow. ………

    it will not be allowed them so much as an example. Melchisedec, besides his priestly benediction, brought with him bread and wine sufficient to refresh Abraham and his whole army; incited to do so, first, by the secret providence of God, intending him for a type of Christ and his priesthood; next, by his due thankfulness and honour to Abraham, who had freed his borders of Salem from a potent enemy………

    But our ministers, though neither priests nor kings more than any other Christian, greater in their own esteem than Abraham and all his seed, for the verbal labour of a seventh day’s preachment, not bringing, like Melchisedec, bread or wine at their own cost, would not take only at the willing hand of liberality or gratitude, but require and exact as due, the tenth, not of spoils, but of our whole estates and labours; nor once, but yearly………

    so tithes also in that action typical and ceremonial, signified nothing else but that subjection which all the faithful, both ministers and people, owe to Christ, our high priest and king…………

    by remembering them that in those days was no priest, but the father, or the first born of each family; and by consequence no people to pay him tithes, but his own children and servants, who had not wherewithal to pay him, but of his own. Yet grant that the people then paid tithes, there will not yet be the like reason to enjoin us; they being then under ceremonies, a mere laity, we now under Christ, a royal priesthood. 1 Pet. ii. 9, as we are coheirs, kings and priests with him, a priest for ever after the order or manner of Melchisedec. As therefore Abraham paid tithes to Melchisedec because Levi was in him, so we ought to pay none because the true Melchisedec is in us, and we in him, who can pay to none greater, and hath freed us, by our union with himself, from all compulsive tributes and taxes in his church. Neither doth the collateral place, Heb. vii. make other use of this story, than to prove Christ, personated by Melchisedec, a greater priest than Aaron………

    that tithes be of any right to ministers, but the contrary: first, the Levites had a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren……..

    to take tithes of the Jews only, and according to the law. That law changing of necessity with the priesthood, no other sort of ministers, as they must needs be another sort under another priesthood, can receive that tribute of tithes which fell with that law, unless renewed by another express command, and according to another law; no such law is extant. Next, Melchisedec not as a minister, but as Christ himself in person, blessed Abraham, who “had the promises,” ver. 6, and in him blessed all both ministers and people, both of the law and gospel: that blessing declared him greater and better than whom he blessed, ver. 7, receiving tithes from them all, not as a maintenance, which Melchisedec needed not, but as a sign of homage and subjection to their king and priest: whereas ministers bear not the person of Christ in his priesthood or kingship, bless not as he blesses, are not by their blessing greater than Abraham, and all the faithful with themselves included in him; cannot both give and take tithes in Abraham, cannot claim to themselves that sign of our allegiance due only to our eternal king and priest, cannot therefore derive tithes from Melchisedec……….

    “Here men that die receive tithes: there he received them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.” Which words intimate, that as he offered himself once for us, so he received once of us in Abraham, and in that place the typical acknowledgment of our redemption: which had it been a perpetual annuity to Christ, by him claimed as his due…………..

    “Know ye not, that they who minister about holy things, live of the things of the temple; and they which wait at the altar, are partakers with the altar? So also the Lord hath ordained, that they who preach the gospel, should live of the gospel.” He saith not, should live on things which were of the temple, or of the altar, of which were tithes, for that had given them a clear title: but abrogating that former law of Moses, which determined what and how much, by a later ordinance of Christ, which leaves the what and how much indefinite and free, so it be sufficient to live on: he saith, “The Lord hath so ordained, that they who preach the gospel, should live of the gospel;” which hath neither temple, altar, nor sacrifice: Heb. vii. 13, “For he of whom these things are spoken, pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar:” …………..

    1 Tim. v. 18, where he cites this as the saying of our Saviour, “That the labourer is worthy of his hire.” And both by this place of Luke, and that of Matt. x. 9, 10, 11, it evidently appears, that our Saviour ordained no certain maintenance for his apostles or ministers, publicly or privately, in house or city received; but that, whatever it were, which might suffice to live on: and this not commanded or proportioned by Abraham or by Moses, whom he might easily have here cited, as his manner was, but declared only by a rule of common equity, which proportions the hire as well to the ability of him who gives, as to the labour of him who receives, and recommends him only as worthy, not invests him with a legal right. And mark whereon he grounds this his ordinance; not on a perpetual right of tithes from Melchisedec, as hirelings pretend, which he never claimed, either for himself, or for his ministers, but on the plain and common equity of rewarding the labourer; worthy sometimes of single, sometimes of double honour, not proportionable by tithes. And the apostle in this forecited chapter to the Corinthians, ver. 11, affirms it to be no great recompence, if carnal things be reaped for spiritual sown…………..

    Certainly if Christ or his apostles had approved of tithes, they would have, either by writing or tradition, recommended them to the church; and that soon would have appeared in the practice of those primitive and the next ages. But for the first three hundred years and more, in all the ecclesiastical story, I find no such doctrine or example: though error by that time had brought back again priests, altars, and oblations; and in many other points of religion had miserably Judaized the church

  53. Clif says:

    Catholic Enclylopedia:

    In the Christian Church, as those who serve the altar should live by the altar (1 Corinthians 9:13), provision of some kind had necessarily to be made for the sacred ministers. In the beginning this was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of conscience. The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the canons of the Council of Maçon in 585. In course of time, we find the payment of tithes made obligatory by ecclesiastical enactments in all the countries of christendom. The Church looked on this payment as “of divine law, since tithes were instituted not by man but by the Lord Himself” (C. 14, X de decim. III, 30). As regards the civil power, the Christian Roman emperors granted the right to churches of retaining a portion of the produce of certain lands, but the earliest instance of the enforcement of the payment of ecclesiastical tithes by civil law is to be found in the capitularies of Charlemagne, at the end of the eighth century. English law very early recognized the tithe, as in the reigns of Athelstan, Edgar, and Canute before the Norman Conquest. In English statute law proper, however, the first mention of tithes is to be found in the Statute of Westminister of 1285. Tithes are of three kinds: predial, or that derived from the annual crops; mixed, or what arises from things nourished by the land, as cattle, milk, cheese, wool; and personal or the result of industry or occupation. Predial tithes were generally called great tithes, and mixed and personal tithes, small tithes. Natural substances having no annual increase are not tithable, nor are wild animals. When property is inherited or donated, it is not subject to the law of tithes, but its natural increase is. There are many exempted from the paying of tithes: spiritual corporations, the owners of uncultivated lands, those who have acquired lawful prescription, or have obtained a legal renunciation, or received a privilege from the pope.

    At first, the tithe was payable to the bishop, but later the right passed by common law to parish priests. Abuses soon crept in. The right to receive tithes was granted to princes and nobles, even hereditarily, by ecclesiastics in return for protection or eminent services, and this species of impropriation became so intolerable that the Third Council of Lateran (1179) decreed that no alienation of tithes to laymen was permissible without the consent of the pope. In the time of Gregory VIII, a so-called Saladin tithe was instituted, which was payable by all who did not take part personally in the crusade to recover the Holy Land. At the present time, in most countries where some species of tithes still exist, as in England (for the Established Church), in Austria, and Germany, the payment has been changed into a rent-charge. In English-speaking countries generally, as far as Catholics are concerned, the clergy receive no tithes. As a consequence, other means have had to be adopted to support the clergy and maintain the ecclesiastical institutions (see CHURCH MAINTENANCE), and to substitute other equivalent payments in lieu of tithes. Soglia (Institut, Canon, II, 12) says “The law of tithes can never be abrogated by prescription or custom, if the ministers of the Church have no suitable and sufficient provision from other sources; because then the natural and divine law, which can neither be abrogated not antiquate, commands that the tithe be paid.” In some parts of Canada, the tithe is still recognized by civil law, and the Fourth Council of Quebec (1868) declared that its payment is binding in conscience of the faithful.

  54. Clif says:

    So there we have it, the Devil got it into LAW and its Catholic Kings gave away empires so as not to face pergutory. Rightly the Bible says ‘ Doctrines of Demons” but NOBODY wants to say behind the teachings and the deciets is THE DEVIL. Well, thats what the Bible says..go argfue with God,,just know who is controling your Church, your MInister that propergates such deceptions…Wolves in Sheeps clothing are the least of our worries. ‘I did not Know you’ should concern us more..much more.

  55. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Cliff

    Yes how true is that, Why do these ministers no apply these principles to themselves, because they know they are thieves instead.

    [PS, sorry about your little picture icon, it comes default with my blog, if you want your own you can upload your own picture at http://www.gravatar.com linking it to your email addresses you use on this blog, give it a few minutes and your picture will change here.]

  56. Hester says:

    I watched a documentary the other night on this preacher (can’t remember his name now) but he started out as a child minister. And he was so open and blatant on how he makes money out of the gullible people. Says him and his mom had “codes”. If he was preaching and she shouted for instance, ” praise the lord!!” then it meant he had to speak more loudly, if she raised her hands and shouted “hallelujah!” it meant that the people were emotionally “ripe” for taking up the offerings. He openly admitted to lying about speaking in tongues, because it is just a little phrase he learnt and then “imparting” it on the women in his congregation and how they then part with their money like there is no tomorrow! Most shocking was seeing him counting his money and putting it out on his bed in the hotel room and as he is counting, saying “thank you jesuzzz”.
    He goes on to say that he had asked another pastor once how he managed to earn such good money from his radio show and this pastor said, “I just say something like, there is an elderly woman, who is going through some tough times, I see your loneliness and ill health or maybe you are concerned about your children, well the lord has shown me that you have hidden 100 dollars and if you are listening right now, you need to be obedient and send it to my ministry as it will advance the kingdom and you will be healed or your children will come to know the lord” and laughingly then said, well there are at least 50 old ladies who hid 100 dollars somewhere!

    It was both shocking to watch and just such a realization again of how the heart of man is evil above all things! But also a fear gripped my heart for these people as it is a fearful thing to fall in the hands of the living God!

  57. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Hester

    >> I watched a documentary the other night on this preacher (can’t remember his name now) but he started out as a child minister.

    Was it Marjoe Gortner – Oldest Tricks in the Book

  58. Hester says:

    The videos reads “video not available” so I can’t say for sure. Certainly from the article, sounds like him!

  59. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Oh crumbs, I will have to fix that.

  60. Sharon says:

    Deb-ster you are waxing eloquent! Baptists love the topic of tithing! :o) I will reread this a few more times before I comment. My preacher brother believes a bit different than I do on the topic of tithing.

    You are very brave my friend. You are forth-wright and I appreciate it.

    Go get ’em girl

  61. Sharon says:

    Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
    Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

    Friend you were tithing for the wrong motive. You bought into the lie of the “name it and claim it” TV preachers of false doctrine. Does God bless us when we support the true church? Absolutely. But where in scripture does it say that you give God your tithe through the church and he will bless you with 1000% increase? He blesses us in many ways. I can give testimony of His faithfulness when I did as He wanted me to do. I live below the national poverty level here in the USA. But I have a cute two bedroom apartment. Is it a mansion? No. My mansion is at home with the Lord. I have a car that meets my needs with a lift on the back for my power wheel-chair. My pantry and refrigerator are full. It cost me nothing to go to my doctor and my prescriptions cost me very little.

    My husband divorced me after 28 years of marriage 13 years ago. I moved closer to our son after my parents passed away in 2008. I barely got moved in and my ex went back to court and had the alimony stopped. I had no money to fight him in court and he knew that. He will answer to God for that. He makes a 6 figure income not including what his wife makes.

    Any way, I said all of that and could tell much more of God’s faithfulness to me. My tithe belongs to His church. The missionaries we support need us to faithfully give. The electricity bill, the water bill, etc had to be paid. When it is 112 in the shade here it is nice to have air conditioning. We have a pantry for folks that need groceries whether members of our church or not.

    Tithing has be from a joyful and grateful heart.

    Helen wrote:

    I don’t tithe money not anymore to church (The building), I tithed 10 percent each sunday beleiving my money would get better, it didn’t. Cos it doesn’t work! What does work, is tithing a small amount to a friend (What church truly is)in tightening the belt situation herself, for petrol money and Thank God my money hasn’t sunk so it has run out! As it was before. THAT works. (I do keep to a tight budget) I tithe to church (building)my time and energy instead.

  62. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Sharon

    >> Tithing has be from a joyful and grateful heart.

    totally correct.

  63. edddycs says:

    I battled with this for a long time as well,but then one day in Gods infinite mercy to me,he showed me to be responsible to my family and any debt is first as a Father and a Husband.We know whats right and wrong God says he has written His words on our hearts so His word as it existed in the beginning was with God and was God So God has written Himself into and on our hearts we choose to ACT IN OBEDIENCE TO HIM OR REBEL (realizing we are rebelious allows us to repent and so believing then as a result is to be born again to what God has already written on our hearts)(The bilble in written form is miracle and represents Gods wriiten word as a tangible gift to the world)-When we believe on the Lord we do what is required of us under the influence of the comforter we look after our families as is right and we then also look after the widow and orphan an Injunction to give and have mercy, a believer does not need a teaching on this Gods word acts out from us, it becomes us to freely give and live this revelatory action,it is an act of believing faith and hence a function out of freedom in truth (Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life)( He who is free is free indeed)with this freedom is abundant life its a realization we are sojourners and earth is not our home. Hallaluah and so we look to the mountains we await the return of Christ with great expectancy.Jesus is coming soon

    Eddddddyyyyyyyy

  64. Sharon says:

    2nd Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
    2nd Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    2nd Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

    As we know, tithing was instituted BEFORE the Law and the tithe means a tenth part or 10%.
    Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
    Genesis 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
    Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

    I can only speak of how I was taught at first by my parents when I was a child. Then as my grandfather preached. My brother changed his teaching a few years ago and I will tell that in a moment.

    Tithing has never been hard for me. I thank my parents for teaching me when a very young child to put some money in the box in Sunday School. I thank God for giving me a heart that is willing to do as I believe he wants me to do when it comes to the tithe and offerings.

    I personally believe that we are to tithe off of the “net” of our pay check. “Net” meaning before taxes and off of the “first-fruits” of what I earned. There are people who believe that you tithe off the “gross” or after taxes. But if God had not provided the job and given the income then it took a certain amount to give you the gross.

    Now with that said, I will discuss how my preach/pastor brother believes. This verse in
    2nd Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    My brother says, that verse where it says, “not of necessity” means that the tithe is not required under grace. But he also says that we still should give out of a greatful and loving heart at least what the Jews were required to give and then more if we can afford it. For around 40 years of his 45 years of preaching he taught the verses in
    Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. as well as other verses on store-house tithing.
    He told me that he came to believe that if we are going to believe in tithing according to the Jews under the law, then we must also live by ALL of the law. We cannot pick and choose what parts of the law we will participate in. He made some very thought provoking points and this is what he has preached to his church and their budget is always met.

    Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

    I told my brother about the verse above and to me it proves tithing in the New Testament. That “here” (on earth) that men that die (mortal man) receives the tithes (in the church) BUT……there (heaven) HE (Jesus) receives them.

    For me, Jesus receiving my tithes and offerings in heaven sheds a whole different light on the Tithe. He loves a cheerful giver. When I was working and still getting alimony I gave the tithe and offering off of both incomes. When I ended up on disability retirement and living below the USA poverty level, I still give the tithe and offering. Of course it isn’t as much as what I was able to give when I was working and I still wish I could work and give more.

    For me, Jesus didn’t set a dollar amount that I MUST give. He just receives my tithes and offerings “UP THERE.” My account in heaven, regardless of the dollar amount, will NOT say “ZERO”, “ZIP”, “NOTTA”, “EMPTY” OR “NONE.”

    It is a good thing to help the poor because Jesus said, we would always have the poor.
    It is a good thing to help out a friend going through a tough time. I’ve done this, but I try to do it as anonymously as possible because we are not to let the right hand know what the left hand is giving.

    There is a great blessing to my soul when only God and I know that I have helped someone. Sometimes I had someone else give the person the money, other times I gave through the church and designated that certain amount as a love offering to a person.

    BUT…I have never used the tithe on anything or anyone other than the general fund of the Body of Believers, my church/the Lords church because Jesus receives my tithe UP THERE.

    Tithing does work. We cannot out-give God. Sometimes though people who try to tithe thinks that If I give this then God is obligated to give me that. Nope, that is “blab it and grab it” nonsense. God has promised to meet our NEEDS. But he is not obligated to give us our wants. Bless His name though, often He does let us have some of our wants. We don’t give to get. We get to give. Our FULL reward will be when we go home.

    Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

  65. Sharon says:

    I wish there was a “EDIT” button here. Deb-ster, I will email you soon about an idea I have just to see what you think.

    I didn’t finish a thought I have. This is how I personally see this.

    Tithing was before the law.
    Tithing was a part of the law.
    Why would it not be a part of grace as well especially because Jesus is our High Priest and receives our tithes in heaven?

    (Melchizedek was Jesus Christ)

  66. Sharon says:

    How many people today earn a living by spices? Back eons ago people were paid with salt, sugar, cinnamon, anise, and other spices. Would you now like to get 56 pounds of cinnamon as your pay check? Would your church want their 5.6 pounds of cinnamon put into the offering plate? Yes under the law they did tithe off of these things as many of these things were either used in the Temple or they were sold for money.

    So…think and read the Word. Ask the Lord if the building you meet in for church needs your tithe of cinnamon or you tithe of your income? Electricity isn’t free.

    Andy wrote:

    That’s the issue. If a person wants to tithe, it can’t be money. It has to be spices and other things as the law said. And with that part of the law, they must keep the rest of the law in sinless perfection.

    As for me, I’ll be under grace, and give offerings in money of whatever I choose to give or not give.

  67. Sharon says:

    You better watch out there Deb-ster. “Oh Crumbs” might be a “potty mouth word” to some who may be reading this blog. You just never know how twisted and demented minds work! :o)

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Oh crumbs, I will have to fix that.

  68. Sharon says:

    [Edited comment moved]

    Luke 21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
    Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
    Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
    Luk4 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

    I have always loved this true story. Jesus was sitting in the Temple and was “people watching.” The rich folks (probably the Pharisees) were casting (throwing) their money into the treasury. No paper money back then. Gold and Silver coins being thrown into the money box. By throwing/casting their money in the “cha-ching” rang out through the Temple like bells. They loved the sound of the “cha-ching” and these “good-Christians/Jews” loved the attention they received even more. I wonder if they knew Jesus was watching them? Maybe they wanted to show this false Son of God how they worshipped the One True God…how pious, how holy.

    But… …in walks one of the lowest forms of life under the law, a widow woman and a poor one at that. I don’t think she knew Jesus was “people watching.” She probably walked with her lives looking down ward She was used to being alone in the Temple, alone in a crowd, very alone at home. She was so alone that scripture doesn’t even give us her name. But Jesus knew her name. But it wasn’t as important as what she did. Those two mites, they would make little if any noise as she placed them into the offering box. I don’t picture a lonely widow woman “casting/throwing” two mites to draw attention to herself. She would have just been laughed at. The “ping-ping” sound couldn’t compare to “cha-ching.”

    Look at what Jesus said, she hath given “MORE THEN ALL OF THEM.” Where those “religiously self-righteous” Pharisees are right now, their gold and silver has melted away. Where this widow is her two mites have turned into streets of gold!

    We cannot out-give God.

    [I really want to meet her when I go home. There are other un-named women in scripture that I want to meet to, but that’s another topic.]

  69. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    You better watch out there Deb-ster. “Oh Crumbs” might be a “potty mouth word” to some who may be reading this blog. You just never know how twisted and demented minds work! :o)

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Oh crumbs, I will have to fix that.

    Oh crumbs, I forgot about that lol

  70. Sharon says:

    I can only speak of these statistics for the “evangelical churches” in the USA

    10% of the people in the church give 90% of the money. I have personally kept the tithing records of a church I was a member of back when I lived in Florida. I finally gave up the job of keeping the records. Knowing what people gave didn’t bother me. What bothered me was some of the people that griped the most about what should or shouldn’t be done gave little or nothing. It would really put a bee under my saddle!

    It is also said that 10% of the people did 90% of the work that needed doing. I found that to be true as well.

    I’ve seen comments here about, “I’m not giving that preacher any more of my money.”
    First of all, you’re not giving the preacher anything. Then I’ve seen where some have said, I didn’t get anything for tithing. That’s why….you didn’t get because you were not giving out of a joyful and grateful heart. You just were giving to get something.

    I hope when I get to heaven that there might be a child that a missionary I helped support come up to me and say thanks, because you helped the missionary come to my town I came to know Jesus.

    What is a human soul worth? Surely it is worth at the very least…10%

    Lev_27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereto.

    Someone said that the tithe under law was cattle, spices, other material goods only and not money. The verse above while under the law is concerning a person holding back some of their tithe, or borrowing from the Lord for a certain time. But when it came time to settle up with the Lord 20% had to be added to it. So, I’m not thinking one could give 20% of a bull/cow or sheep or goat, Even though the examples of the people in the Old Testament showed them to be cattlemen, Bedouin type lifestyle, they still had the capacity to earn money by selling said cattle and farm products.

    Any way…while tithing may or may not be a New Testament teaching, it has worked for me. I have no regrets and I wish I could give more. I truly do.

    Peace to you, His peace.

  71. Henry Mijares says:

    If you will read HEBREWS 7:5,12

    “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:”

    “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”

    It is clearly stated that there’s a change of law. And when it comes to giving, we should follow 2 CORINTHIANS 9:7

    “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”

  72. Henry Mijares says:

    Our Pastor keeps on including tithing in most of her preachings. That we are robbing God because of what is written in Malachi 3:8. There’s nothing wrong in that verse, as the people are still under the law, whether the sons of the Levites, the priests or the people of Israel.

    Of course you will feel guilty about it. As if you will be cursed if you will not give your portion to God. I feel that the verse is being abused. I don’t have any problem about giving but it should not be out of obligation, compulsion or making the people guilty. God loves a cheerful giver.

  73. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Henry

    If I were you I would look at the rest of what she preaches to see if it’s correct, chances are she is teaching a load of nonsense as well. Pastors love to make people feel guilty and place a huge burden on people, this is not of God.

  74. Marie says:

    I am so blessed today as I read this article. Tithing is taken so much out of context. I remember when I was a baby Christian, (now been walking with the Lord for over 40 years.) I remember the first time the Holy Spirit revealed to me about Mal.3 and how He showed me He was speaking to the high priests here. I stopped tithing immediately, as I believed the word He gave me. Immediately, and I mean immediately, I had more than enough to live on, plus. I started to give money instead of tithe money. You see I had a very bad disease, from which He now has healed me. I thought that if I did not tithe that I was robbing God and my disease could not be healed, this is what I was taught at this time. I started to be a giver AS THE LORD LEAD ME, and sometimes it was way over the tithe. I learned to give mostly to those who did not have it. I gave to my church,, BUT ONLY AS HE LEAD ME. After all these years I enjoy giving, and guess what, I always get more to give as HE LEADS ME. I am going to send out this teaching far and wide my brother and thank you for your faithfulness to our Father in publishing this. You, are a true teacher of the Word of God. Blessings always, in Christ, Marie

  75. rory says:

    Amen, 10% tithing is 100% wrong. Money tithing is non-existent in the scripture, nobody paid tithes on income, wages, or sales. After 24 years of paying tithes, I asked the Lord to show me the truth, and He said “start reading the NEW Testament”. 3 weeks later we knew we had been lied to by the men we trusted behind pulpits. The apostles *never*, no, not once, ever instructed or taught any church or saint to pay or give any form of tithes!
    Not one verse! In fact, Paul worked and told ministers to do the same that they should help the needy. Acts 20..

  76. MissDebra says:

    I have seen tithing creep into churchianity over the past decades. When I first became a christian in high school, it was not being preached at the places I went to. I remember the first time I heard a “pastor” talk about it, I felt in my heart it was wrong and I was only 17. What is the matter with all these deceived people believing in it now? It has crept in like a cancer, and they welcome it. In fact when I try to wake people up and tell them Jesus did not take tithes of the people because He was not a Levite, and I ask them, “is your pastor a Levite?”, they get so angry and will not talk to me anymore.

  77. Dear MissDebra

    You said: is your pastor a Levite?”

    Oh goodness I never even thought of saying that lol. Good one.

    Its the same as when people are caught up in plan old con-artists schemes. When you try tell them they are being conned they don’t want to believe it because 1) They don’t want to believe they are wrong, 2) They don’t want to believe they are being conned and 3) ROI – Return on Investment aka greed. If you study about white collar criminals and the tactics they use to steal peoples money you will notice it’s exactly the same psychology; be it a false christian minister or a plain old white collar fraudster. The psychopath (who is satanic) knows what to say (e.g., quote bible scripture) and how to say it (play on your emotions, and say it over and over and over again) to get you to give everything.

  78. MissDebra says:

    You are correct Deborah, greed is on the part of the deceived for sure. They covet their pastor/handler’s cars, jets, homes, vacations, etc. I told one lady I just met, when she hammered me about why I don’t go to church, that tithing was heresy. Her response? “I am hanging up on you now because I don’t want to hear any more, its working for me.” When I responded to her with “Well, the children of Israel were angry with the prophet because he told them that they should not be sacrificing to the queen of heaven but should be serving the Lord their God, they said it was working for them and they would keep sacrificing. When satan tried to tempt Jesus with all the wealth of the world, wouldn’t it have worked for Him temporarily if He had submitted to satan? But He chose to deny Himself and follow His Father instead of gaining the riches of the world. Gaining money is not a test of true spirituality.”

    As you can guess, our conversation did not last much longer than that, she hung up after I had said these things.

    Deborah, why don’t people love Jesus more than their petty temporal pleasures? It is childish to hang on to baby blankets and pacifiers when we can be friends and spouse to the one who created it all.

  79. Faceless says:

    Just my two cents, someone might have mentioned it already but i didnt read all the comments. Sorry.

    Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
    Deuteronomy 14:22-29 KJV

    Clearly to been seen here that there is a difference between TITHE AND MONEY… it clearly describes what the tithe is and that money is not part of it. And meditate on the rest of it aswell, i bet not one tithing preacher has ever told anyone about these verses….

    Another thing to think about…

    Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    Galatians 5:1-4 KJV

    Lets replace the word circumcised with tithing. Tithing was part of the sacrificial laws. The laws we as the church are not under.
    And anyone that wants to argue that it was before the law, ok fine. So was circumcision and the sabbath day and making altars and sacrificing animals. Abraham did all those things, so if you want to tithe but not do those things, then your heart has been revealed. You want to tithe because you want a 100 fold or some blessing in return. All those other things you will say: but we are not under the law??? Ow ye hypocrites!!!

    God bless and hope this helps someone.

  80. Fleur lewis says:

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Redeemed

    John and Pietie wont be happy with that answer, they want you UNDER LAW.

    I think John is confusing the 10 comandments which we obey with the other commandents of the old laws…ie ceremonial handwashing..not eating pork..being circumsised..ritual practices..etc there are hundreds which we are not under any more because Christ has set us free from the bondage of the law..but we are under the moral law..the 10 comandments…and all Jesus’s teachings and the wisdom of God shows us all truth if we humbly seek it.

  81. Fleur lewis says:

    Romans 3: 21

    But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in jesus christ to all and in all.

    Romans 7 : 6

    But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Galatians 2 : 16

    Knowng that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in jesus christ , even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law : for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

  82. Koko says:

    Dear Debs/Tom :hi: , Another great post. 2 Corinthians 9:7. “Let everyman give ACCORDING as he has PURPOSED in HIS HEART. Not grudgingly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver”. More so Galatians 5 says we are to “Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and not be entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold I Paul say unto you that if ye be circumcized, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to everyman that is circumsized that he is required to do THE WHOLE LAW”. “Tithing” was part of the law. So If anyman attempts to keep any part of the law aside from the moral law (ie the 10 commandments which was reiterated by Jesus when He said “Thou shall love the Lord with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might and with all your strength”. “And thou shall love your neighbour as yourself” which the Holy Spirit writes on our hearts) he is required to keep the WHOLE LAW. For the legalistic, there are about 613 of them to keep so enjoy. It is amazing that some believers want to be back under the law when it is by the power of the Holy Spirit that we are even able to keep the first 10. And even at that we still succumb to the will of our flesh sometimes and sin. For those who say “we are saved by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone” but then go onto say in the very next sentence that you MUST tithe have “fallen from Grace” as the bible says. If you MUST tithe, then you MUST also keep the rest of the law. The bible says in Galatians 5:6 “For in Jesus Christ, neither circumcision availeth anything nor circumcision but faith working through love”. Everything we do for God from the moment we are saved, must stem from a place of love for and gratitude to God for what He has done. Hence why it says “if you LOVE me, keep my commandments”. And a new commandment He has given in the area of giving and that is to give according to how much we have determined in our hearts. One thing I do want to add though is that when God said in Malachi that they had robbed Him in tithes and offering, it wasn’t referring only to the priest but the whole nation of Israel. Malachi 3: 7-9 says “Even from the days of your fathers, ye have gone astray from my ordinances and have not kept them. Return onto me and I will return unto you saith the Lord of Hosts. But ye say wherein shall we return? 8. Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, EVEN THIS WHOLE NATION”. So Malachi 3: 8 was referring to the whole nation. But tithing does not apply to us today. We give not out of obligation but out of love for God. And it is not a set amount. Some may decide they want to do a tenth. And that’s okay in so far such a person understands it is NOT mandatory and must do so from a cheerful heart.

  83. Koko says:

    Hello again everyone, just wanted to add that Mathew 24:4-5 says, “… take heed that no man deceives you. For many will come “in my name” saying “I am Christ” and will deceive many”. This is what we are seeing now. Many have unwittingly embraced the teachings of false teachers. Why? Because they seemingly came in the “name of Jesus” and even proclaim the core of our Christian faith ie that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. But peel back the top layer and you will see what lays beneath the smoke screen ie damnable heresies, secretly introduced to deceive many. The WOF teachings, Calvinism and the “Works based gospel” (which the “you MUST tithe” mentality falls under hence its relevance to Mathew 24:4-5) etc all proclaim that salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone. The question is which Jesus is being presented. The bible says, “My people perish for a lack of knowledge”. Many are unknowingly being astray. They put their faith in a false Christ. They go on to “prophesy” and do “wonders” in the name of a Jesus they believe is the Jesus of the bible and will be utterly shocked when Jesus says on that day “…depart from me ye worker of iniquity for I NEVER knew you”. Therefore, the bottom line which cannot be overstated, hence why even Jesus reiterated this point twice in Mathew 24, is the urgent need for us to be bereans (ie discerning) for many times what appears to be, isn’t what it is. I pray God will open the eyes of all those still under one deception or another.

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