Elza Meyer – Hearing God’s Voice the Contemplative Way
Elza Meyer is part of the New Apostolic Reformation and is a minister at Moreletapark Church and Dutch Reformed Church’s and is big friends with Angus Buchan (Shalom Ministries), Stephan Joubert, Isak Burger, Graham Power (Transformation Africa), Bennie Mostert (Jericho Walls), et el. Elza Meyer wrote a book called, “Hearing God’s voice”. It’s a small book, but it’s filled to the brim with unscriptural teachings as Elza Meyer leads people down another path, away from Jesus Christ the Son of God to the Cosmic Christ. Elza Meyer tries to tell us that hearing from God is such a difficult thing and that most Christians never hear His voice (this is an oxymoron in itself) as I will explain later, but Elza has the remedy on how to hear God’s voice that relies on being silent and listening with your heart which I thought was rather peculiar considering the bible tells us to listen with your ears. Oh well. Shall we continue? I think we should.
“Listen with your Heart and Hear God Whisper” [Chp1]
So we’ve barely hit the book with our noses buried in deep and we come across this heading to chapter 1. I sit back and laugh, seriously? Since when do we listen with our hearts when it comes to anything? No, we use our ears for that. Lets’s see what the bible has to say:
We BELIEVE with our heart, we CONFESS with our mouth,
Romans 10:9-10 “9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”Faith comes from HEARING through the world of God
Romans 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
We HEAR by using our EARS.
Matthew 11:15 “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
We hear the Holy Spirit speaking to us in our ears as a gentle whisper.
Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
Elza Meyes says, “It’s our inability to enter into the spiritual dimension that has made us deaf to His voice”. [pg. 10]
I’ve never heard such nonsense before, ‘inability to enter into the spiritual dimension?‘ Seriously? When you become a born again Christian the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and He seals you unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13) Your name is written in the Lambs book of Life never to be removed. (Revelation 3:5) So why does Elza have an inability to hear God? The Bible says:
John 8:47 “He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”
It’s as simple as that, again let’s see what the bible says:
John 10:25-28 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. 26 But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Silence and solitude:
Elza tell us about that she grew up in the Eastern Free State “where times of silence and solitude” was part of her life. She says there was ample time to “think and meditate”. Elza says that the world today is totally different as everyone is rushing everywhere, “we have to make calls, people to see, appointments to keep and emails to reply to, We watch dVD’s and listen to CD’s. We don’t know what silence sounds like anymore.” [pg 10-11]
She says “We become silent for an hour to two, and think that we have achieved out goal. In such a busy world it is difficult to hear God’s voice” [pg. 11]
And again she says “Is is difficult to recognise God’s voice when you are rushing to keep our busy schedules Inside each of us there is a place of silence, and only we know when we are in that place of rest. Paul say such silence bring peace that transcends all understanding.” [pg. 11]
She does not quote the verse to back up her statement, so we will go and look for the verse to see if what Elza says it true:
Philippians 4:7 “And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.”
… another verse that links to this verse is this
John 14:27 “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you: not as the world gives, give I to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”
It would appear Elza is not telling the truth, “the peace of God which passes all understanding is found in Jesus Christ” not by sitting in silence waiting for God (or who you think is God) to communicate with you – when in fact it’s a demon.
Elza goes on to misunderstand scripture and says the following:
“We also know when we are not functioning in that rest, because the writer to the Hebrews warns, with good reason, that we must make sure we enter into God’s rest. I have often experienced in my own life that I sacrifice that rest because of my busy schedule.” [pg 11]
Hebrews 4:10 “For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.”
Hebrews 4:8 “For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.”
This verse is speaking about The Sabbath – not sitting in silence meditating trying to connect with God. It is also very important to note that Jesus Christ is our Sabbath Rest. Again Elza does not understand the bible.
Christians are no longer satisfied?
“People are no longer satisfied with an average Christian life but desire to know God personally and who want their relationship with their Saviour to grow” [Emphasis added] [pg. 11, 12]
“there is a movement of believers who want to understand more and more about God. They want to hear Him speak loud and clear, and to be able to discern His voice is a wonderful experience for them.” [Emphasis added] [pg 12]
“Silence enables us to experience that kind of intimacy with God, but it requires a deliberate choice to become quiet with God. We must choose to visit with God” [pg 12]
So according to Elza born again Christians who have the Holy Spirit abiding in them are no longer satisfied with the Holy Spirit and somehow want more? Apparently they can’t hear God speaking and want new ways of learning how to hear Him speak loud and clear. Apparently the level of the tone of His voice is not loud enough, or they are spiritually deaf and have to turn up the volume. No, what is actually happening here is that, we have false Christians pretending to be real Christians calling themselves a ‘new movement’ who are experimenting with unbiblical ways to try hear God. These professing Christians write books telling other Christians that they must forget about the Holy Spirit abiding in you, forget about the Word of God, stop praying, and instead try out the new concept of sitting in silence, clearing out your thoughts, and wait for an entity (who you think is God) to contact you. Just fantastic is it not. Not.
The Fragrance of Christ
Elza is told a story by a friend in which Elza says:
“A good story always has the ability to say more than any theological argument” [pg 12]
Here again Elza mocks the bible by saying that the infallible Word of God, the Bible inspired of God, is fallible, and that any old story told by sinful men holds more water than a theological argument spoken from the bible. The bible says other wise:
2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
In the story told by Elza, a daughter and father are visiting one another and the father (supposedly God the Father in the story) asks the daughter (supposedly a child of God):
“Can you recognise My scent? Will you be able to recognise the fragrance of My presence if I get very close to you, or if I just pass by when you are with other people? [pg 14-15]
God does not exude a scent. What utter nonsense. This is mysticism at it’s finest.
Stephan Joubert a friend of Elza Meyer who does most of his preaching at Mosaiek Church in Fairlands, Johannesburg but also preaches at Moreletapark Church also believes you can ‘smell’ Christ. “The inevitable outcome of such a flawed view of the cross is the deliberate twisting of his Word. Here again mysticism plays its part when verses and whole passages in Scriptures are changed to accommodate the Emergent Church’s social gospel. The following quote from Stephan Joubert article “Then I smelled Jesus” proves beyond any doubt that the message of the cross and Christ’s victory over Satan, sin and the world is no longer centre stage in the Mystical Emergent Church.
“Jesus has a distinct scent. He smells of the exclusive fragrance of life. Sometimes he also smells of sinners. And at other times He smells of broken ones, hungry ones, lonely ones… After all, it’s between the broken, searching and hopeless ones that He spends most of his time. Jesus often takes people’s faults, pains and sins onto his shoulders. Their pains become his pains. He also swaps their fragrances for his. Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, which was such a pleasing aroma before God (Eph 5:2), becomes the new life fragrance of every Jesus-follower. He floods them from head to toe with the scent of heaven. That’s what Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 2:13-16.
Jesus’ aroma is now also our own fragrance. We smell like Him. We give off his scent. We spread his exclusive life-fragrance. We are heavenly aroma in living, moving, talking form. Everywhere we go people smell the scent of heavenly incense.
Christians never smell neutral. We can’t. Then we’re using the wrong deodorant! The we suppress the life-giving fragrance of the heavenly perfume that God poured out over us. Jesus’ smell sticks to us forever. We can’t follow Him without smelling like Him. Our Jesus-scent is our identity. But Jesus is also busy spreading this fragrance world-wide. We’re full-time spreaders of his life-giving heavenly aromas. That’s why we need to smell Jesus in those people around is who need Him. And we need to deliver his scent there. We need to pass it on. And spread it further. That’s how the good fragrance of the gospel spreads.”
Let’s analyse Joubert’s “deodorant” in the light of God’s Word.
- Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God the Father where He ever lives to intercede for all the believers as our High Priest and Advocate (Hebrews 10:12; 1 John 2:1). If, as Stephan Joubert claims, Jesus often smells of sinners, He could never have been exalted to his glorious position on high. In fact, had He exuded the slightest odour of a sinner, He could never been seated at the right hand of God the Father. Jesus took all people’s sins on his shoulders only once when He cried out “My God, my God, why have you forsaken Me?” It is sheer blasphemy to say that He still often takes people’s faults, pains and sins on his shoulders. Joubert’s assertion is an outright denial of Jesus Christ’s finished work on the cross.
- Joubert says that “Jesus’ aroma is now also our own fragrance. We smell like Him. We give off his scent. We spread his exclusive life-fragrance. We are heavenly aroma in living, moving, talking form. Everywhere we go people smell the scent of heavenly incense.” and that “that’s what Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 2:13-16.” No Stephan that’s’ not what Paul writes. In verse 15 he says that real Christians are to those who are saved an odour of life unto life and to those who perish an odour of death unto death. There’s nothing mystical about the smell Christians exude. They do not discharge the fragrance of Christ Himself but, as Paul says, the fragrance of the knowledge of Christ which his disciples spread when they preach his unadulterated Gospel. We do not spread his fragrance when we dole out alms, do goody-goody deeds and care for the poor, the widows and the orphans. If that were so even the most radical Muslims would be spreading the fragrance of Christ and I don’t think they would be too happy with a smell like that. Paul verifies in verse 17 that it is the preaching of Christ’s unadulterated truth that causes his disciple’s to exude his fragrance. “For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.” Anyone who does not preach the unadulterated word of Jesus Christ cannot claim to spread Christ’s fragrance. – See more at: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/16/the-fragrance-of-christ/#sthash.jqr55OLf.dpuf
Do people find peace with God when they practice contemplative silence and solitude or through the blood of Christ’s cross? What does the bible say:
Colossians 1:20 “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.”
Second hand knowledge
Elza says “I believe that God doesn’t want His children to be satisfied with second-hand knowledge of Him” [pg 15]
Is Elsa saying that the Bible, the Word of God is filled to the brim with second-hand knowledge, absolutely, yes. The problem with this statement by Elza is this:
John 1:1; 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Elza has declared that Jesus Christ who is the Word contained in the Bible is nothing but second hand knowledge. What blasphemy. The scriptures says that when it would come time for the Bible to be completed it would be considered PERFECT, because God is perfect.
1 Corinthians 13:9-10 “9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”
Now Elza is telling Christians that the Bible contains unless second-hand information, and insists that the Christian seek alternative means on finding ‘new’ revelations, in this case apparently directly from God. The problem with this is that you do not know who is speaking to you, as Satan knows the bible inside out and back to front, he quotes scriptures like there’s no tomorrow. He also loves to disguise himself as an angel or God or Jesus Christ, it’s one of his favourite past times.
2 Corinthians 11:14 ” And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”
Elza says: “Leaders seldom experience the truth of God’s voice first hand, His voice has become silence.” [pg 15] she says
This is a shocking statement. Really? How can she make such a blanket statement? Just because she can’t hear from God does not mean that everyone else does not. So in the nut shell Elza is again saying that the Bible does not hold any truth, its useless, and has no impact. Elza is also declaring that Jesus who is the Word does not hold any truth. However Jesus Himself says in John 14:6 ” ….I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Let’s look at this verse:
Romans 10:17 “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Elza wants you to know that that this verse is a waste of time – no one has ever experienced any truth from that verse.
Romans 10:13 “For whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Yip that one to, complete waste of time according to Elza Meyer.
It gets even funnier, listen to this, Elza says:
“To be honest, we don’t even know what God has prepared for the times in which we live in now”. [pg 15]
One needs to question whether this woman has EVER read the bible at all, ever. The bible is filled with prophecy for our time, right now. Being fulfilled right now. It’s such an exciting time to be living in because the Word of God is ever more so ALIVE as prophecy is fulfilled right in front of our very eyes.
So after Elza has insulted God, Jesus and His Word in her book, she now tells Christians that instead of following the bible, we need to follow Satan’s new techniques of sitting in silence and mentally tapping into other dimensions in the hopes that something answers you back….’Hello, this is God” the demons says.
Jesus said this to the scribes and pharisees of the day who were withholding fundamental truths from the people.
Luke 11:52 “Woe to you, lawyers! for you have taken away the key of knowledge: you entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in you hindered.”
Who is Fil Anderson?
She quotes Phil [sic] Andeson: “Phil Anderson makes the following statement in his book Running on Empty: Most people don’t understand the need or ever feel the desire to be alone and queit. For many it simple feels like a waste of time. Driven people especially, believe the illusion that nothing is happening when they are quiet and still” [pg 17]
This is interesting, first she spells Fils names wrong, and then she does not complete the name of Fils book, actually titled: Running on Empty: Contemplative Spirituality for Overachievers. Why is Elza scared to mention the words Contemplative Spirituality in her book? Scared she might chase away some readers so instead she lies and hides what she is really trying to say?
The sound of God’s voice:
She says, “As the intimacy in your relationship increases, you will learn to recognise His voice clearly. He speaks to everyone in a unique manner, or rather each person’s perception and interpretation of God’s voice is unique.” [Emphasis added] [pg 20-21]
Is that so? I think not. You see there is One God, One Jesus Christ and One Holy Spirit, which make up One God in the Trinity and they speak with One voice. When the Holy Spirit comes to abide in a believer He is the same Holy Spirit that abides in every believer, there is not a Holy Spirit per believe, but One omnipresence, omniscience Holy Spirit that abides in all. That is why born again Christians all think alike, hear the same voice, and believe the same gospel message.
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
She then goes on to give an example of
“the little Samuel who didn’t know the difference between God’s voice and Eli’s voice straight away” [pg 20]
Well Elza, this is incredible, you should know that Samuel and Eli we in the Old Testament and God spoke to some people vocally in the Old Testament, however we are in the New Testament now with a New Covenant where Jesus said:
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
So God does not speak to us vocally anymore, it is the Holy Spirit who now does all the talking. When you are born again the Holy Spirit comes to make a home in you immediately and He teaches you all things that are in the Bible, you know that book you despise so much. (I would just like to add that if God were to speak vocally to someone (which is possible because He is God) the chances of it happening would be so rare that you would hardly ever hear about it, but more importantly He would never tell you to throw away His Word, what He would say would match PRECISELY to His Word).
You quote John 10 in your book telling us it’s easy to recognise the Shepherd’s voice. You are right Elza, it is very easy, but if you notice there is only ONE Shepherd, not multiple Shepherds, hence the sheep do not hear different voices, they hear Jesus’ voice and that’s it.
Now, let’s figure out why in contemplative spirituality each person would hear a unique voice. Well it’s simple really. There are millions of demons in the atmosphere ready and waiting to play ‘God’ and intercept your mind. When you willingly follow pagan practices and ’empty your mind’ and ‘sit in silence’, thinking you are going to make contact with God, you allow your brain to be taken captive by demonic forces. Christ is not in you that you have to seek him there, this is a lie from Satan. See this article: Contemplative Spirituality: The Throne of Satan
Signs and wonders seeker
Elza tells a story (again) of a man who lived in Scotland who went to a church that preached the gospel but did no signs and wonders and was this man was upset because he saw none of the things that took place in the book of Acts take place in the church. “All the things that happened in the book of Acts. The blind could see and the deaf could hear. People who accepted the gospel were filled with the Holy Spirit, and much more”….he was told…“Those things only happened in biblical times! We have been celebrating the wonders and signs that happened in Jesus’ time shortly afterwards for the past 2000 years. If we want to take an honest look at the church we must ask ourselves who still serves the Lord with expectation that He will touch people?…..Who still believes that God wants to have a conversation with His children? Or is Christianity all about being comforted by the gospel?” [pg 23-24]
First Eza insults biblical churches with her little story by twisting scripture and lying by saying that “those things only happened in biblical times“. The fact is these things still happen Elza and all the time. Christians are saved on a daily basis and are filled with the Holy Spirit, healings take place because genuine Christians go to Jesus Christ in prayer directly and they are genuinely healed. Not this fake nonsense you see in today’s churches where a false spirit runs rampant mocking Jesus Christ, and fake healings take place.
You say “If we want to take an honest look at the church we must ask ourselves who still serves the Lord with expectation that He will touch people? Who still believes that God wants to have a conversation with His children? Or is Christianity all about being comforted by the gospel?” [pg 24]
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 “13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
Genuine Christians (Romans 10:9-10, Ephesians 1:13-14) love our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (Luke 10:27) and we believe in the Word of God, unlike yourself Elza, (Mark 16:15-1) we also study the Word of God with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 2:15), we also believe that if we ask God through His precious Son Jesus Christ anything we will receive it (Matthew 21:22) we now that He protects our souls as He is our Shepherd, “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” (John 10:9) and Holy Spirit fills us (Ephesians 5:18),
The fact is you Elza are the odd one out. The Holy Spirit speaks to genuine Christians daily, and He comforts us, hence He is called the comforter (John 14:26) and His job is to teach us the gospel of Jesus Christ that you despise so much. You bring another gospel, you are a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Second, it would appear that Elza is a signs and wonders seeker and wants you to be too. This is typical of a person who does not have the Holy Spirit abiding in them. They need signs and wonders to validate their salvation.
Let me give you a bit of a bible lesson. What is the sign of the prophet Jonah? Now we know that in the bible people kept asking Jesus for a sign, for a miracle that He was the Son of God (instead of believing by faith) and Jesus said to them… (Matthew 12.39-40) “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”.
The only sign that Elza will never be satisfied with is that fact that Jesus was crucified, buried for 3 days and rose again. Faith is not enough for Elza, she must have sings and wonders and hear God speak to her. And Jesus will not give it to her.
Who does give signs and wonders? Satan of course.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,”
We are to believe by faith!
John 20:29 “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed”.
1 Peter 1:8 “Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:”
2 Corinthians 5:7 “For we walk by faith, not by sight”
Elza says “Does God only speak through His Word these days? Or is He still the same God of the Old and New Testaments?” [pg24]
Well Elza, “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” (Hebrews 13:8) but one needs to make a clear distinction between the Old Testament and the New testament, which you do not do in your book. The Holy Spirit spoke to people in the New Testament as loudly and clearly as He speaks to genuine believers today. And this is wonderful news to any young Christians reading this article who have been confused by false teachers such as yourself.
God’s communication methods have not changed. The Good News is that God does not desire anyone to be lost. (2 Peter 3:9) Not one single soul! The Holy Spirit draws the person to Jesus Christ (John 6:44). Jesus died for everyone’s sins in the whole world so that they may have everlasting life (John 3:16). God wants all to come to know the truth (I Timothy 2:4) and God is calling you! (Matthew 11:28-30). You have free will to chose Jesus Christ or not to chose Him (Revelation 22:17). One cannot get to heaven through Jesus apart from obeying Him (Hebrews 5:9). Will you call upon Him? For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Acts 2:21). What must you do to be saved? “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38)
God then speaks through the Holy Spirit abiding in the believer, the Holy Spirit leads the believer to the Word of God and illuminates the scriptures for deeper understanding. “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) This is why Elza does not understand the Word of God, thinks it foolish and wants to throw it away. The necessity to have the Holy Spirit’s illumination for the understanding of the Scriptures is poorly understood, and not preached at all because there are so many false teachers on the pulpit who hate this topic. The can’t stand the fact that they can’t hear God the biblical way and hate genuine Christians who do.
“From the Word we will know what God said in the past – we will be able to take out the Book and read how the engine of life works – but if we have to take it apart and put it back together again, the knowledge that is gained through experience is a prerequisite” [pg 25]
That’s incredible, so the bible is not good enough for everything – this is such a postmodern worldview. Elza is convinced that the Bible is out of date and unable to solve today’s problems in today’s world. So she is attempting to deconstruct Christianity by bringing in new teachings into the church. Postmodernist have a profound skepticism towards the ‘Truth’, that being genuine Christianity, and have discovered (so they think) that at the base of every truth is an actual story that they can deconstruct. Postmodernists call these stories that claim be be ‘Truth’, metanarrative; they say it’s just a disguise of some ‘absolute truth’ that they (the postmodernist) feel they must unravel into some untruth.  In plain English, it’s called lying. Postmodernists take the truth and turn it into lies.
What does God say:
Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
Do not study the Word of God?
Elza explains that when you want to meditate,
“You must not fill this time with God by studying the Word of doing other things” [pg 17]
I am presuming “other things” means PRAYING because she says,
“No, this is a time to listen and hear from the Lord” [Emphasis added] [pg 17]
Why is Elza telling us to do the exact OPPOSITE to what God tells you to do? Who shall we believe, Elza or God? What does the bible say?
The bible says you must not sit in silence when you pray to God but to let our requests be made known to Him. A relationship involves communication from your part.
Philippians 4:6 “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.”
Bible tells you to be sober and on alert because the Devil roams looking to see who’s mind he can infiltrate.
Ephesians 6:18 “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
1 Peter 5:8 ” Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”
Elza says “I had a strange experience whenever I started reading the Bible. It was as if the Word was not getting through to me. I solemnly confessed my sins and asked the Lord to please open up His Word for me so that I could hear Him speak but it seems as if I was just reading over the words”… Elza told her story to a friend in ministry who told her that maybe God didn’t want to speak to her via His Word anymore, “I thought that it was possible, but didn’t want to sin by not reading the Word regularly. Without hesitation he said, “Just put down your Bible and wait on God!” [pg 25]
Quite frankly I think Elza is telling tales, Elza did not have a “strange experience” where should could all of a sudden not understand the Bible, I believe Elza has never understood a single word of the Bible from the get go. Yes she has read it like a study manual using her intellect, forever learning, but never coming to the truth. She learns as your would any subject as if it was your business to open a business being a pastor. Now a days it seems like anyone can become a pastor, there are gazillion of them, so it says absolutely nothing for Elza.
2 Timothy 3:5-7 “5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Elza says “I solemnly confessed my sins”, yes millions of people do, they confess their sins; Calvinists do, Anglicans do, Methodists do, Lutherans do, Charismatics church goers do, Oneness Pentecostals do, Presbyterian do, Catholics do, but they all follow false teaching and a false Christ and refuse to give it up. Just last week I received an email from a woman who needed desperate help, she had been a Christian for over 2 decades and tells me that she wants a deeper relationship with God, she is struggling to hear Him apparently. I told her I had great news for her and to hang ten while I typed her an email. So I told her the great news, that she has the Holy Spirit abiding in her already, why is she seeking Jesus? She told me that she has done all she can, and she too had repented of all her sins, but alas I told her, based on her email to me I picked up that there were some serious flaws in ‘what she believed‘ and this is what needed to be repented of and changed. I gave her a list of things asking her what she has been reading or practicing; I never heard from this ‘desperately-seeking-to-hear-from-god-so-much’ woman again. It made me so sad, for days I was emotionally down, in fact I still check my email regularly to see if she has emailed.
Now, you say, someone told you that maybe God didn’t want to speak to you via His Word anymore and you say ,”I thought that it was possible” – how quick for you to make that assumption, just like that! Did all your biblical knowledge go out the window when you were confronted by this minister friend of yours who deceived you, and now you are deceiving others by telling them this story.
Oh P U L E A S E you say: “but didn’t want to sin by not reading the Word regularly.” Reading your bible regularly is not a good work Elza. It is also not a sin to not read your bible regularly. However here is the crux of the matter that you just don’t get – It is the Holy Spirit that makes you really want to read the Word of God and it is Him who makes you really understand it.
So, “Without hesitation he said, “Just put down your Bible and wait on God!” And you could not wait, and you threw your bible aside and screamed hooray finally I am rid of this book! And now you are trying to get others to do that same. I wonder what you friend Angus Buchan thinks about this.
Elza says: “The search for the internalised Word is meant for every believer. The Lord wants every believer to get to know Him personally.” [pg 27]
The ‘internalised Word‘ is your sneaky way of saying ‘internal Christ’. So if we repeat what you said, this is what you really mean, “The search for the ‘Christ within’ is meant for every believer”. Now we are getting to the nitty gritty of things. Here you are preaching full blown New Age teaching.
“Consider the following from the paintbrush of Dries Cronje’, one of the masters in the e-fold of the e-church, Stephan Joubert website. In reference to Paul’s statement ‘to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory’ in Colossians, he comes to this amazing conclusion:
“In a nutshell, here’s the mystery:
“Christ is in you, and therefore you can look forward to sharing in God’s glory.”Colossians 1:27b (The Message) – [DTW note: A wicked New Age translation]
This is huge.
The implications are enormous. Let’s consider some of them:
- Christ is in you. Instead of looking for God out there, you need to start looking inside of you. (Thomas note: How do you look inside of you? Well, that’s easy! You do a little silence here, a little solitude there; you walk the labyrinth at Mosaiek Church in Fairlands, Johannesburg or you do a little contemplative or centering prayer here and a little Yoga there and voila . . . there’s Christ, right inside of you. Wow! Enlightenment! . . . the very same enlightenment Jesus of Nazareth experienced when He became the Christ. If He could do it, so can you).
- Christ is also in that other guy, over there…
- The kingdom of God is and has always been an inner reality, in all of us. Of course, Jesus says so in Luke 17 but somehow we just don’t believe Him.
- The peace and joy, and true justice of the kingdom of God (Romans 14:17-18) are actually very real consequences of living from the deeper reality, this previously hidden mystery, of Christ in you. You won’t be happy, since happiness turns into unhappiness real quick. No, you will have deep inner peace and joy and these have no opposites.
- True love is to live from a place where you realize (make real) this mystery of Christ in you. If Christ is in you, and you know it and feel it constantly, then you will also see and feel Christ in others and in the natural world. This is true love… This is what Jesus meant when He said (speaking from his Christ identity) “whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.” That makes perfect sense if you consider Christ is in every human being, right?”
Cronje says: “That makes perfect sense if you consider Christ is in every human being, right?” Nope…Wrong! Consequently it does not matter what their background or religion is. It is not only for Jews, or Christians, but also for everyone else! First of all, Paul did not write his letter to a bunch of unbelievers who rejected the cross of Jesus Christ because they regarded it as sheer foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18). He wrote it “to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ that are at Colossae.” The faithful brethren are the saints who continue in his Word and his doctrines. Jesus said: “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31). You cannot claim to be his follower if you do not continue to be faithful to his word and his doctrines. And yet, contrary to what Jesus taught, Dries Cronje brazenly says that Colossians 1:27b is for everyone. It does not matter what your background or religion is. Even the Muslims who deny that God has a Son and believe that it was Judas who died on the cross instead of Jesus have Jesus living in glorious splendor inside of them. They only need to start looking inside of them to find him . . . and how does Dries Cronje propose this to come to pass. Well, of course, through contemplative practices such as silence, solitude, lectio divina, labyrinths, contemplative prayer, et al. Who needs Jesus when you want “Jesus” to be in everyone regardless of your background or your religion. This “Jesus” who is nothing but a demon is only too happy to accommodate your desire to be inside of you when you discard the truth and the teachings of the real Jesus who once said through his apostle Paul:
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9)
Paul would never have written these words if he believed that Christ was already living inside of every single human being, regardless of their religious persuasions.
Who is the liar here – Dries CronjÃ© and Elza Meyer who wants you to believe that Jesus is in everyone or Jesus Christ who said that whosoever does not have his Spirit, does not belong to Him? —> See more at: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/10/contemplative-spirituality-the-throne-of-satan/#sthash.51h6hVXj.dpuf
The lie that Jesus is already in everyone is purely New Age. Here now follow a few quotes from the lips of mystics, esotericists, New Agers and Satanists.
Let’s begin with Alice Bailey. As you may know her spirit guide, a demon called Dwajl Kuhl, inspired her to write her books.
“A word now as regards the work of the Ibezhan adepts and Their mysteries; it is necessary here to point out that the whole trend of Their work was in a way different and necessarily so, to that of the adepts at this time. Their objective was to stimulate mysticism and the stimulating of the kingdom of God within the human atom. The nature of Their work is most difficult for the average man of this time to comprehend, owing to the different state of his consciousness. The Ibezhan adepts had to deal with a humanity which was in its infancy, whose polarization was most unstable, and whose coordination was very imperfect. There was very little mentality to be found and men were practically altogether astral; they functioned even more consciously on the astral plane than on the physical, and it was part of the work of these early adepts, working under instruction from Shamballa to develop the energy centers of the human unit, stimulate the brain and make him fully self-conscious on the physical plane. Their objective was to bring about a realization of the kingdom of God within . . . (Alice Bailey) 3 (Emphasis added)
At the Transfiguration, Christ revealed the glory which is innate in all men. The triple lower nature – physical, emotional and mental – is there shown as prostrate before the glory which was revealed. In that moment, wherein Christ Immanent was in the physical form, wherein humanity was represented by the three apostles, a Voice came from the Father’s Home in recognition of the revealed divinity and the Sonship of the Transfigured Christ. On this innate divinity, upon this recognized Sonship, is the brotherhood of all men based – one life, one glory which shall be  revealed, and one divine relationship. Today, on a large scale (even when by-passing the implications of divinity) the glory of man and his fundamental relationships are already a fact in the human consciousness. Accompanying those characteristics which as yet remain deplorable and which would appear to negate all claims to divinity, is the wonder of man’s achievement, of his triumph over nature. The glory of scientific attainment and the magnificent evidence of creative art – both modern and ancient – leave no room to question man’s divinity. Here then are the “greater things” of which Christ spoke, and here again is the triumph of the Christ within the human heart. (Alice Bailey) (Emphasis added) 4
Because of the magnitude of this theme and the wide extent of the psychological area in which the mass of men now live, I cannot further enlarge. This field of experience and of trial is well known to all aspirants and is the battlefield of millions. The Christ within, as the Controller of the individual life, can bring that battle to  an end; the aspirant can emerge clear sighted and unafraid. The appearance of the Christ among men will do the same thing for humanity as a whole, not in any vicarious sense but through the livingness of His Presence, stimulating the Christ principle in every human heart.  5
(Thomas says: According to Bailey, the Christ within as the controller of the individual life is presently not known to most people. The aspirant in whom Christ dwells will only emerge clear sighted and unafraid when the world Teacher (with the appearance of the Christ) makes himself known, not in a vicarious sense (as a suffering servant who dies a vicarious death in the behalf of others) but through the livingness of his Presence. He will then stimulate the Christ principle in every human heart. In other words, Antichrist is going to show every human being from every possible religious persuasion that he, the false Christ, lives in their hearts. They are just going to love him to death and he them.)
—> See more at: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/10/contemplative-spirituality-the-throne-of-satan
“It is such a loss having God in our homes and live, but never hearing Him speak!” [ pg 27]
God is not a liar, when he says “To him the porter opens; and the sheep hear His voice: and He calls His own sheep by name, and leads them out.” (John 10:3).
First, God speaks to us through His Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17). The Bible contains ALL God’s Words to us, everything we need to know is contained in the Bible. The Word of God is Jesus Christ in published form. Second, God speaks to us through our conscience (1 Timothy 1:5; 1 Peter 3:16). Third, though the Holy Spirit, God is in the process of renewing our minds (Romans 12:2). Fourth, God allows trials to happen in our lives that we may learn and grow spiritually (James 1:2-5; 1 Peter 1:6-7; Hebrews 12:5-11).
The fact of the matter is this, if you are not hearing from God Elza or anyone else, it’s because; “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4 )
Monologue vs dialogue
“For a lot of believers, their time spent with God does not really look any different. When we kneel before God or become quiet in prayer, we start what should be a dialogue, but which in the end is nothing more than a monologue”. [pg 28]
“It never occurs to us that God might want to say something too” [pg 28]
Is Elza really expecting a two way dialogue with God? What exactly she is ‘experiencing’? If we look at a New Age website on prayer they too see prayer as a conversation with God:
“Be Still and Know: The Importance of Meditation
Most people when they pray talk to God rather than with Him. They don’t take the time to listen, in deep inner silence, for His answer. Prayer, however, to be most deeply meaningful, needs to be a two-way communication, a giving and receiving – like conversation. And while it would be absurd to think in terms of “fascinating” God with our part of the conversation, there are proven ways of making our prayers more effective. Listening is one of them……’ [Emphasis added]
Prayer must come from the heart. That is what I mean by conversation. As there is a world of difference between talking at someone and talking with him, so there is a universe of difference between petitioning God and including Him in the needs we feel……
All this involvement on our part is, in its own way, a kind of listening. We need, in the same way, to listen to God. The kind of prayer that most often wins a response is one in which the person praying converses with God: calls to Him, while at the same time listening for His silent response in the soul. [Emphasis added]
And that is, essentially, what is meant by the practice of meditation. Meditation is the act of listening for, and hopefully, in time, listening to, God’s whispered response in the soul……. [Emphasis added]
When people exclude the practice of meditation from daily prayer, it usually means they aren’t really convinced there is anyone “up there,” listening to them. All too easily, their prayers become a process of simply talking to themselves…… [DTW Note: What a load of nonsense, quite the opposite in fact, people who try meditation are the ones who can’t hear God and therefor seek unbiblical practices to try and hear Him speak.]
Western society generally identifies meditation with the thinking process. We are told to meditate “on” a particular subject. Vaguely, we suppose this means to think in circles around it, hoping for a deeper understanding of it. Only comparatively recently has the teaching come to the West that silence itself is the wellspring from which true understanding arises. In other words, true, and especially spiritual, understanding is not the product of thinking one’s way to it, but of direct inner perception. As Yogananda wrote in his autobiography, “A truth cannot be created, but only perceived.”…….
Meditation, in this deeper sense, begins with the practice of stilling one’s thoughts and emotions……..
Look upward, concentrating your attention at the central point between the two eyebrows, the seat of spiritual vision. Offer up all thoughts and feelings in deep concentration at this point. Call mentally to God, “Reveal Thyself! Reveal Thyself!“….. [Emphasis added]
Gradually, you will feel His peace stealing over you, like a weightless waterfall……” [Emphasis added]
Like a weightless waterfall? Now that’s demonic. That is nothing but a demon manifesting itself into our dimension hanging over you. You play with fire people if you attempt to do anything like this.
What is Biblical prayer and how does God speak to us?
When we pray we pray with our voices, we speak to God, and He hears us:
Psalm 17:6 “I have called upon thee, for thou wilt hear me, O God: incline thine ear unto me, and hear my speech.”
Psalm 77:1 ” To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of Asaph. I cried unto God with my voice, even unto God with my voice; and he gave ear unto me.”
1 John 5:15 “And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.”
Isaiah 38:5 “Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.”
Philippians 4:6 “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.”
We need to have faith that we will receive what we ask for:
James 1:6 “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.”
Our speech to God may be vocal, or in our minds, as long as we are communicating with Him. Prayer is speaking to God. But we can be 100% certain that He will hear the believer because the Word of God says so. We also have the Holy Spirit abiding in us who helps us pray when we don’t know what to pray for and when we are struggling, “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.” (Romans 8:26)
How does God speak back to us, well via His Word and through the Holy Spirit
God speaks to us through His Word and guides us through the Holy Spirit. As I mentioned above, the Bible is God’s Word, when we read it we are reading His Word to us. If “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” (Hebrews 13:8), so is the Word of God and it is not out dated. The scriptures are alive, just as Jesus Christ is alive and relevant to every aspect of your life. What hinders communication between God and us? Sin.
Sin always has consequences in our relationship with Jesus. The Holy Spirit chastises us when we sin that we come to Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness and most importantly change our ways with His help. “For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (Hebrews 12:6)” While our relationship with God is secure in Jesus Christ, unconfessed sin (that includes following false teaching) in our lives will hinder our relationship with God and it will quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives.
1 Thessalonians 5:19 “Quench not the Spirit.” and Ephesians 4:30 “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
That is why it is so important to ask Jesus for forgiveness of your sins and change your ways with the help of the Holy Spirit because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us – the reward and joy of His presence in our lives will feel far away, because sin drives a wedge between us and God and we are effectively distancing ourselves from Jesus. As born again Christians we naturally feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives, we don’t have to do any rituals to find Him.
Elza says “Perhaps the time has come to discipline yourself to think about God first thing when you wake up in the morning. Find an item, a song that wakes you up, or any other association that will make you think of God. Before you start your busy schedule for the day, lie still for a moment and say, “Good morning Lord, today I want to function in Your presence. Remind me constantly of Your presence all the time. Help me to be aware of You all day, no matter what happens.” Pray a similar pray every day!” [pg 33]
Elza is teaching you what is called “Practicing the Presence of God” which is occult teaching.
Mindfulness techniques-Mindfulness is moving meditation to the next level, taking the awareness beyond the meditation seat and into your whole life. The goal of mindfulness is living life deliberately in the Presence of God, and not “sleepwalking” throughout the day. God is always with us, but we can’t be aware of His Presence with us in this moment without awareness-mindfulness-in this moment. Mindfulness makes all time sacred time.
- Practicing the Presence of God-Keeping a mindful awareness of God, around and within you throughout the day.
What is this ‘Presence‘ that everyone keeps talking about? The satanist Alice Bailey had this to say:
“Much has for ages been said and written anent the practice of the Presence of God and today one of the interesting events of the time is the emergence of various “techniques” for achieving the realisation of this Presence, of inspiration, of light and of contact.
I will put to you three questions, and in their answering, we will find indication of the meditation to be given to you later.
1. What do you understand by the thought of the Presence? Of Whom and what is this Presence?
2. What is it that prevents contact with that Presence and hinders you from standing in its light?
3. Can you draw up a technique of meditation which will be for you the way into the Presence?
Answer these three questions and realise that for you the contact with that Presence-consciously and
with understanding of the process-is the goal for the remainder of your life experience in this
particular body. I seek for no mystical understanding. That type of theoretical understanding is the
heritage of most aspirants. They have the vision of this contact. I seek a definite comprehension and I
give you the clue to the work in the following sentences which (if subjected to due thought) may induce
“Duality is visioned by the seer. He sees the Presence. He sees, and seeing knows that he exists and
likewise that which is seen.
“The knower blends the two in one. He sees the Presence as himself. He merges with its light. Behind the Presence gleams that awful radiance which shrouds the One and Only. Before the Presence stands the aspirant. Within the Presence, through the merging process, is peace, is union, the end of fear, the end of difference, joy, love and light.”
Your meditation, therefore, is to be along these lines. The form you can draw up yourself during the
next few months. The theme will emerge in your consciousness if you move slowly, ponder deeply and
feel no sense of pressure. Revelation will come through quiet thought and daily brooding.” [Emphasis added] – Discipleship in the New Age, Volume 1, pg 388-389, By Alice A. Bailey, 1972 BY LUCIS TRUST
– See more at: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/07/16/what-is-entering-the-presence-really-all-about/
What is the Biblical ‘Presence of God’?
The Blood of Jesus Christ
1 Peter 1:18-19 “18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:”
We don’t hear enough these days about the precious blood of Jesus, ” But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). Jesus paid a debt of sin that He did not owe, because we owed a debt of sin that we could not pay. Our sins had to be paid for with Jesus’ blood.
In the Old Testament, the people’s sins were only atoned for i.e, (covered for) once a year. Leviticus 17:11 states, “For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” This verse speaks of the blood of animals, which were sacrificed to temporarily cover the sins of the people in the Old Testament, until the Messiah would come and offer the perfect Sacrifice of Himself to God the Father.
We read in Hebrews 9:12 concerning Jesus, “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” Jesus’ blood didn’t atone for our sins; but rather, took them away forever!
Mat 26:28 “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Jesus is our High Priest
Hebrews 9:13-14 “13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? ”
When you become born again, the blood covering washes away our sin and is a covering that presents us holy and unblameable and spotless in God’s sight. In order for us to come before God, into His presence, you can only come to the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. Once you believe in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross to save you and repent of your sin, His blood covers you ONCE, so that you can appear spotless before God. If it was not for Jesus’ Blood you would not be able to stand before God permanently in His presence.
Jesus brings you into God’s presence – This is the Biblical understanding of God’s presence.
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who used to be far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.”
Ephesians 3:12 “in whom we have boldness and confident access to God because of Christ’s faithfulness.”
Elza Meyer runs another ministry called Turn2God. A few years ago, 2010 to be precise, I attended a gathering at the Union Buildings in Pretoria. Now apart from being sun burnt to a crisp I managed to catch in action some of South Africa’s biggest names in false teaching.
I wrote an article titled: Turn2God at the Union Buildings was…
Elza Meyer also runs another ministry called Fire Trails they aim to “Unite the Body of Christ to serve local communities towards sustainable biblical transformation” who’s partners include: Angus Buchan from Shalom Ministries, Isak Burger from the AFM Church, Graham Power from GDOP and Unashamedly Ethical, AyJay Jantjies from the Khoi Foundation, Bennie Mostert from Jericho Walls, Peter Sekhonyane from NEPWO, Elza Meyer from Turn2God, Lindie Gouws from My World Ministries, Moreletapark Church, Every Home for Christ, Gateway and many more.
See this article where Elza Meyer tells a very peculiar story : Elza Meyer Attacked by Demons, Saved by Son
It is not difficult to see under whose tutorship Elza Meyer has fallen. (I use the word “fallen” because that’s exactly what’s happened to her). You only need to notice the buzz words – “silence,” “experience,” “from the heart,” “story-telling” and her outright denial of the Bible as God’s final and authoritative Word to know from whence she is coming.
Dr Willem Nicol, the doyen of contemplative spirituality in the Apostatized Dutch Reformed Church wrote a book called “Gebed van die Hart” (“Prayer of the Heart”) On pages 12 and 14 he writes:
Stephan Joubert also advocates the heresy that we should not return to the Bible but rather focus on story telling. This is what he said:
So, as you can see, sharing Jesus with others and everything He had done for them on the cross, is taboo. That’s old hat. We must become with-it and share ourselves with other people. BLASPHEMY!!!
How long God is going to tolerate their idolatry, I really don’t know. He is long suffering and does not want anyone to perish but the time is drawing near when He must say: “Enough is enough.” May HE have mercy on their pitiful souls. I have warned Stephan Joubert on many occasions to repent of his waywardness but has to this day refused to listen. “Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.” (Jer 7:27)
Stephan refuses to answer. Elza Meyer is on the same road as Stephan Joubert.
Phwee I wish I knew where to start ,to make comment suffice to say (avoid a long story) I grew up in the “Pentecostal church” I was born into the fellowship.By the time I was 12 I had done a pretty good child hood study of the bible via a “course” offered by world outreach,as my godmother worked for them. by 19 till i was 30 i lead a very rebellious life.
At age 23 I repented of my sin 3am in the morning after a particularly bad experience.My repentance was an act of desperation on my part as I saw clearly where i was on my way to.my deliverance was not an instant experience but rather a road to recovery after allowing the WORD of God to become revelation to me by the Holy Spirit.
I am no longer a participant in the Pentecostal charismatic establishment.(after ambitions of becoming an elder-lol) I have had to repent of rebellious actions along the way and as I have done so God has instantly delivered me from addictions.As a Father and a husband I have learnt to take the WORD at it’s simplest and believe it – I lay my hands on my children when they succumb to illness anointing them with oil (My daughter at 16 specifically with a specific issue and my son at 20 also- they are witnesses) The Lord healed them instantly it was a supernatural miracle.My wife suffered with debilitating megrains that would cause her to be bed ridden, after a while with doctors injections offering temporary relief -I one day took the courage of my convictions to pray for her by laying my hands on her and anointing her with oil.She no longer suffers as of that time – More recently I prayed for the lumps in her breast and they are no longer.I have temporarly been led down the garden path by some authors like Rebecca brown- reason is because I read there books instead of just the Bible,I have stopped doing that and so do not get led down these parts anylonger . A father and Husband must be vigilant at his post having received this position from the Lord we must ourselves submit before the teaching of the word and the Holy Spirit of God to exercise the protection that the Armour of God affords us.
satan work of deception is absolute,he is a master of lies as we see in DTW expose of this woman minister,it is a world wide phenomena.
All the name mention above are under the influence of demonic influence, they have allowed the influence to enter there lives because they seek self aggrandizement in the form of Public recognition and position, high net-worth association and wealth. People follow these pied pipers as the allure is irresistible.
People senses are dulled by the trapping around TV ,movies,sport,media stories and so on then they grasp at a compromise and a justification for this life style by the people mention above.
The Lord is Good he exposes these through DTW and look here as well.
“Fifteen construction firms have been ordered to pay penalties amounting to R1.46-billion for collusive tendering, says the Competition Commission.”
“The contested projects are estimated to be worth about R47-billion and took place during 2006 and 2010. Of these, R19-billion were private sector projects and R28-billion were public sector projects. Three firms – Group 5, Construction ID and Power Construction – have not accepted the settlement deal and face prosecution.” [M&G]
Do you recognize anyone here -here is a clue –
Unashamedly ethical….? for Power Construction
So take heart keep on keeping on as a follower of truth.Jesus says of himself. “I AM the way the truth and the life,no man comes to the father but by ME”
Believers are now criminalized persecution will intensify for the the ones who are publicly verbal
Reasons:Believers hold the WORD up as the standard for salvation. and the elite powers under demonic influence perpetuate distortion through Liberal teachers for a moment of fame these “teachers” are to offer “validity and sanction” to the new order of things.Thats why DTW is attacked by Mr Prasch and similar.
DTW you must expect it when the attacks stop then worry.
The road is narrow the gate is narrow and few enter therein….
The Fight is not against flesh and blood it is against powers and principalities in HIGH places.It is sad to see that such people have sold themselves out to satan for fame and fortune a ONE NIGHT STAND.
Very strong words used to unpack the book,thoughts,revelations of a co worker in Christ!! However i realised that because of our different angles(cultures,world views)that in some areas your views does make sense.In the last days according scripture 2 Tim 2v14-25 I am cautios!!!!!!!!!
>> DTW you must expect it when the attacks stop then worry.
Well my stats are dropping at a rate of knots. The reason after much evaluation of the situation: DTW’s ongoing stand against Calvinism. It would appear people don’t like it. There are more Calvinist sympathizers out there than meets the eye.
Well, to bad, I would rather have no stats and stand for the truth than a million visitors and stand for heresy.
So Elza is a co-worker, that’s fantastic, I hope she has read the article 🙂 Please ask Elza to come comment, I would love to debate her 🙂
Let’s see you quote 2 Tim 2:14-25 to tell me what?
2 Timothy 2:14-16 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Actually this verse describes Elza Meyer and her book to a tee. The bible says you need to study to shew yourself approved before God! But Elza instead says you must throw the bible away that God says you must study! “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.” Men may have great learning who are just given to babblings in spiritual matters, like Elza. Take the great philosophers. What is a philosopher? A man/woman who is trying to find out the mystery of the universe by looking for new revelations. And here is a Book called the Bible that will tell you and Elza all about it, but she turns her back on that which God has revealed and tries to find things out for herself. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” (Romans. 1:22). The mature Christian is instructed out of the Word of God. He is not misled by these babblings.
2 Timothy 2:17-25 17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Hymenaeus and Philetus were misleading many. There is something rather interesting about their very names, which suggest that these men were of agreeable and pleasant character, and yet they were using their natural charm to mislead God’s people. Kinda like Elza Meyer, she has a nice name too, but she is misleading many. These two false teachers were seeking to mislead the churches.
You can never be sure about a man just because he/she has a nice, attractive personality. Satan’s ministers, like Satan himself, can appear in very persuasive roles. And so the Apostle Paul tells us to be on our guard. No matter how much false teaching may come in, “Matthew 16:18 ” And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18). All the power of the enemy has been brought against the church of God down through the centuries, but the church abides and will abide until the Lord comes again. “Having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.” We may not know for certain, but it is not for us to judge.
We are responsible, though, to walk in the truth and depart from error. “And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity” Separation from known evil is mandatory. We are commanded to depart from iniquity, or lawlessness, and this includes all forms of ungodliness and worldliness this includes FALSE TEACHING that everyone seems to keep forgetting about “Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity” depart from having his own way.
In the next verse the Apostle uses a little parable. He says, “In a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.” As you enter such a great house you may see in the dining room beautiful silver, golden, or cut-glass glasses, while out in the kitchen and in the cellar there will be earthenware vessels and vessels made out of metal. “some to honour, and some to dishonour.” The vessels unto honor are for the pleasure of the family and are used for the refreshment of their guests. These vessels are displayed openly where all may see them. They must be kept clean and bright, and after each using they must be separated from the other vessels of less value.
“If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour.” Every Christian should be a vessel for the display of God’s glory in this scene-a vessel unto honor. But in order that this might be, we need to be clean, not only clean ourselves but also be clean and shiny to other people. We are to purge ourselves by separating from evil associates and from everything unholy in our lives. Thus we shall be vessels “unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the Master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.”
You see, Christians are like those vessels. There is a sad mixed condition in Christendom today, saved and unsaved, often united in the same church fellowship. There are those who profess to know the Jesus Christ and those who have never confessed Him, and people wonder why there is so little power and blessing. If you want to please the Lord who has made you His own, you must separate yourself from all that is unclean. Then you will be “a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the Master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.”
Paul adds, “Flee also youthful lusts.” When you are young you have a tendancy to do rebellious things, when cannal things abound. We are to flee these things. We are not to allow them to have dominion over us. On the contrary, we are to “follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart” We are to be separated from those who are unclean, and to fellowship with those who walk before God in righteousness and holiness of life.
In the next place we are warned against occupation with trivial matters. He says, “But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.” After we have taken our stand for God, after we come out from the world or from some worldly church where the truth is no longer preached, it is so easy to be self-satisfied and occupied with minor questions, and thus lose the sweetness and attractiveness that should characterize one who is separated to the Lord Himself.
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient” It is difficult sometimes to be faithful to the truth without becoming quarrelsome. We are called upon to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). We are not to be contentious or querulous, manifesting a bad spirit about right things, but we are to be characterized by the spirit of grace even as we stand firmly for the Word of God. “In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves.” The man who opposes the truth is working harm to himself. We need to remember this. It will make us kind and considerate as we seek to recover them from error, “if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;” Some who were the bitterest enemies of the gospel have been won for Christ by faithful dealing. “And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
Next time you quote scripture Ronell make sure you know what you are quoting…
The message Ronell is – separate yourself from false teaching!