The Rapture – An Article to Knock Your Socks Off
The Time Has Come to debunk those errors regarding the Rapture not taking place.
I was raised in a family that followed Word of Faith teaching (yet I rebelled and went on my own left hand path at about the age of 13). When I realised I needed Jesus Christ in my life (much later in my life unfortunately) and was born again the ‘rapture’ was just part of something that I had heard about in passing – I was actually oblivious to Christian doctrine, including the doctrine of imminency.
After I was saved and battled to find churches to go too, I hit the internet in search of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This was where I read up about PreTribulation and also PostTribulation (where Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation with no rapture of the church before that) And then just to put another spanner in the works, I heard about Amillennialism. Boy, oh boy.
So I started researching the Word of God and I started my research with Amillennialism, after 10 minutes of goggling I realised that Amillennialism was completely and utterly wrong.
I then went and looked at the Post Tribulation scenario. What I found interesting was that the Post Tribulation supporters use their verses to back up this idea but exclude the verses that point to the Rapture (or being caught up where the born again Christians will meet Jesus Christ in the air before the wrath of God is meted out on earth). I read so many PostTribulation websites and studied their little diagrams and it just didn’t make sense. I emailed 2 ministries in which I included many PreTribulation (Rapture) verses in my email and asked them to include them into their articles and they refused. The reason: They had enough Biblical scripture to prove Post Tribulation without having to include vital scripture that refuted what they say. How convenient I thought.
So there I was back at Pre Tribulation, still researching and knowing deep down all along that this was correct and that Jesus Christ the Son of God is coming back SOON to take His children away. At the end of the Great Tribulation He will return a 2nd time , this time setting foot on earth and crushing the enemy.
This is the reason for my blog, to warn people because I can’t handle the fact that many people I know like family, friends will be left behind and have to face delusion, confusion, terror and utter hopelessness in their minds as to what happened and try cope with the after effects.
That very moment will be unlike anything the world has ever experienced, and it gets worse. Much worse. Mass HORROR, mass MURDER, mass TORTURE, mass INCOMPREHENSIBLE evil will take place. Matthew 24:21 “21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
At the same time I rejoice for I know that I am going to see Jesus Christ the Son of God, my King, my Lord, my Saviour, the ONE I love so much, the ONE who gave HIS life for me, the ONE who SAVED my life. I am going to see HIM SOON face to face. How awesome is that. I can’t wait.
We are in a time in history unlike anything ever seen before. Never in the last 10 years would I have ever thought that I would be alive to witness this. The (bride of Christ, i.e., born again Christians) being caught up to meet Jesus in the air.
Jesus said He would come when we least expect it. Generally the least expected thing happens when everything is going relatively well.
Matthew 24:37-41 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matthew 24:44 44 “For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
During the rapture, Jesus Christ does NOT come down to earth. (So it is not considered His Second Coming). The dead in Christ rise first and then the body of Christ are caught up to meet Jesus Christ in the CLOUDS /AIR. 1 Thess, 4:16-18 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Jesus tells us that we are to COMFORT one another with this WONDERFUL passage of scripture.
Everything will happen very fast, so fast that it will be 1 Cor 15:52 “52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye…”
The bible tells us that even though we do not know exactly when Jesus is coming back to take the his church home Matthew 25:13 13“Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.”
He tells us to BE ON ALERT as we will see the day approaching (Biblical prophecy fulfilled) and as the day approaches we are to ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER. Hebrews 10:25: “25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.”
So it is clear that born again Christians will know that the day that Jesus Christ returns draws nearer and nearer. If not, Jesus would not tell us to BE ON ALERT at all times and for us to watch and pray that we do not fall into temptation. Matthew 26:41 41“Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Jesus promised us He will look after us, because He paid the price for us – we are not destined for God’s wrath during the Tribulation. 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “9For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ”
We are NOT destined to be TESTED Revelation 3:10 10 ‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Our focus should be on Jesus Christ our Blessed Hope and we are not be disturbed by the things going on around as. Titus 2:13 “13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus”
Do you fear that there is something terrible going on in the world but you do not know what it is? Do you remember someone speaking to you about Jesus and you brushed them off as talking a load of nonsense? Do you know the name of Jesus Christ in your mind, but your heart’s not interested because you prefer the ways of the world and sin? Do you want to know why you fear that there is something horrible coming this way? Do you want to change your ways and ask Jesus to forgive you for your sinful life so that you my enter God’s presence spotless.
Do you want to drop everything you are doing right now and speak to Jesus Christ the Son of God? Tell Him you are a sinner, tell Him you want to change your ways. Tell him you have disobeyed Him, but you ask for forgiveness for everything you have done and you are so sorry. Tell Jesus that you know and believe that He died on the cross for you as a sacrifice for your sin, and that He rose again 3 days later and ascended with a physical body into heaven. Tell Jesus that you want Him to come into your life, and make you a new person. Tell Jesus that you love him, honestly and truthfully with all your heart, mind and soul. Humble yourself before your KING as a sinner who does not deserve to be saved. But because of the love that God has for HIS creation, that is you, He created you. When you truly and utterly come to Jesus Christ and repent, God truly and utterly forgives you and you are saved.
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See all articles on the rapture here
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Michael
Here is the Chuck Missler article: Dr. Chuck Missler, SWANsat and the Auric™ Currency
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/02/17/dr-chuck-missler-swansat-and-the-auric%e2%84%a2-currency/
interesting stuff. i believe in a post trib rapture,for the record.
i am seeking answers. i thought satan had already been cast out of heaven and the battle in heaven between the angels already fought.
also using the term anti-semetic about someones thoughts is too easy.
i believe gentile born again men and women are also the seed of Abraham as well as israelites.
as for Rev 3v9 which has been mentioned a few times i think it is quite clear.
95% of todays known jewery in israel and worldwide are kazar or ashkenazi, a converted heathen tribe, about 700ad,from centralish europe, converted for political reasons. they have no right to call the Holy Land their ancestral home
as their ancestors never set foot in it. but it seems whoever they are they are going to have to worship at the feet of the church of philadelphia.
where the majority of the biblical israelites are is anyones guess.doubt its the Holy Land as the number of israelites is compared to the sand on the sea shore not the few million easily accounted for worldwide.
tony
So you are dominionist. Ok. No problem. So you wanna reclaim the promise land, I understand. I am sure every Arab agrees with you too. Paid for your air ticket yet? Don’t waste to much time, seats are filling up quickly.
hi Deborah
did not know what a dominionist is! looked it up, cant say i am but dont totally disagree. all i know is that i want to keep on looking at your site and learning.
i think your site is good for me. thanks.
tony
no problem. I am going to post an article within the next few hours on Dominionism and you will see that how Dominionists view Israel is how you view them. Let me get it up and then read it and take it from there ok.
I am not here to fight. I am just tough on my view point and I call a spade a spade – so I seem harsh, but in reality I am telling the truth and when people don’t like what they hear then I am the bad meanie. Fortunately for them I don’t care what they think. I have moved way past the sniffling ‘how dare they say that to the ‘oh whatever, use it don’t use it’ stage. taking offence is so last season. lol
My mind is like mashed potatoes reading all this stuff.
I have gone from Patrick Heron back to the Bible then googled then back to the Bible then John McAurthur googled back to GODS word, then found Chuck Missler, researched plenty more then back to the Bible, then Prof WA Liebenberg then back to the bible as he has now moved in with his girlfriend and says its bibical to live with her as he will marry her soon one day. So I stopped going there.
I am exhausted and I now needs Gods rest.
Hubby comes in and say Hey read this new site, its called discerning the world. Now I am back to my Bible and Google.
Thank you for setting up this site.
Always new that man in the brown hat was not right but I was scared to open my mouth. Don’t touch Gods annoinointed I was told.
Louise
You’re funny!
Great site. I too have held onto a rapture belief even though many charismatic churches are either teaching that we are to make the kingdom of God here on earth or preach the post-trib rapture. In reality any other belief except the rapture does not make sense. We have authority over Satan, so how could the anti-Christ appear? Some claim that a rapture doctrine makes one complacent. How absurd, you could be going anyday, besides if you really love Jesus you are not just sitting around hoping the rapture is coming. Sure I would like to fight it out in the tribulation and certainly I am not going to give up hope if I see all the tribulation things come to pass. Imagine the kickoff to the tribulation with all the believers gone..talk about a housing crisis. Right now we have about 2-3% of all mortgages in default. When the Christians leave in the rapture who is going to pay their bills? If suddenly 50 million people or more leave the US look at all those extra houses..talk about instant collapse and confusion.
Anyway, God’s blessings to all who come to search on this site.
Hello All,
Could somebody please exaplain to me where this fits with the rapture?
In verse 52 below it states “at the last trump”, the end of the tribulation. So does this mean only some true believers will be raptured before the tribulation, and some left to sit it out ?
1Co 15:50-53
(50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Thank you
moscowbob
1) There are different trumpets for different things that are going to take place.
2) This last trump is not meaning the ‘last trumpet’ that is blown once and for all. This trumpet sounds when the body of Christ (those who are truly and utterly born again) are caught up in the tinkle of an eye to meet Jesus in the air.
3) There are 2 other trumpets that sound AFTER the Rapture in Zechariah 9 and Isaiah 27
4) There are not two sets of Christians; one that makes it into the rapture and ones that don’t. Good grief no. How terrible would that be. Who would be able to tell?
No. There are those who are true believers, right now, this moment, who are born again and love the Lord Jesus Christ with all their heart ,and this includes all who have died before us over the least 2000 years or so who were born again. These are the ones who will be raptured.
Then then are the fake Christians. Let’s just call them unbelievers – they are left behind. No Christian is left behind. One needs to make a clear distinction between a genuine child of God and someone that makes like they are but are far from it.
During the time of tribulation these unbelievers (who know the truth, but refused to accept it) have a chance to be saved, but it’s not going to be pleasant for them at all.
So the church (body of Christ) will no longer be on earth, and the time of the Gentiles will be over as the focus then shifts to Israel and Jerusalem. Will Gentiles be able to be saved during this time? Oh of course yes but the focus is now back to Israel
.Also please make a big distinction between the current world ‘Christian’ who think they are Israel (Word of Faith/Apostolic and Prophetic etc) and need to go marching off to save Jerusalem. These are not Christians, these are what the Bible calls the ‘synagogue of Satan = those who think they are Jews but are not’. They cause nothing but destruction as per Joel 2.
I have been interested in the rapture subject for some time. I seems that MK. 13:24-27 favors post-trib. What are your thoughts.
miles
My thoughts are in the comments section above regarding Mark 13:24-27. I think…. Please go read and if not, then I will make a plan to answer it.
Hello Deborah,
Thank you for your response, I am not sure I follow what you mean, could you please clarify if you do not mind.
DTW:
“1) There are different trumpets for different things that are going to take place.”
Do you mean the trumpets of the Book Of Revelation ?
DTW:
“2) This last trump is not meaning the ‘last trumpet’ that is blown once and for all. This trumpet sounds when the body of Christ (those who are truly and utterly born again) are caught up in the tinkle of an eye to meet Jesus in the air.”
Could you please explain what “last trump” means in this verse?
1Co15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump..”
Could you supply Bible reference to show the difference between the two?
DTW:
“3) There are 2 other trumpets that sound AFTER the Rapture in Zechariah 9 and Isaiah 27”
The verses in these two chapters I read the following:
Zec 9:9 – First Advent
Zec 9:10 – Second Advent
Zec 9:14 – The trumpet God blows (last trump???)
Zec 9:15 – God defends
Zec 9:16 – God saves
Isa 27:13 – Gathering of Isreal (last trump???)
Thank you for your time.
This is a nice explanation:
When is the Rapture?
1. What is the Rapture?
John 14:3 (NIV)
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (NIV)
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed–
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised
imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
2 Thessalonians 2:1,3,6-7 (NKJV)
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of
sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the
way.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
2. What are the main views of the Rapture?
Pre-Trib Rapture — Before the Tribulation
Mid-Trib Rapture — Midpoint of Tribulation
Post-Trib Rapture — End of Tribulation
Partial Rapture — Before and End of Tribulation
Prewrath Rapture — Three-fourths into Tribulation
3. What will happen at the Rapture?
• Realization
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 (NIV)
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen
asleep in him.
• Revelation
1 Thessalonians 4:15 (NIV)
According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord,
will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
• Return
1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 (NIV)
15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord,
will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with
the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
• Resurrection
1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NIV)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with
the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
• Removal
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
• Reunion
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
• Reassurance
1 Thessalonians 4:18 (NIV)
Therefore encourage each other with these words.
4. When is the Rapture?
Matthew 24:42 (NASB77)
“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matthew 24:44 (NIV)
So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
Matthew 25:13 (NIV)
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Acts 1:7 (NIV)
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
Matthew 16:3 (NIV)
…You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
Matthew 24:6-8,33-34 (NASB77)
6 “And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things
must take place, but that is not yet the end.
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be
famines and earthquakes.
8 ” But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs… 33 even so you too, when you see all these
things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away
until all these things take place.
Application:
1. Keep Looking for the Lord
Philippians 3:20 (KJV)
For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Titus 2:13 (NASB77)
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus;
1 Thessalonians 1:10 (NIV)
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead–Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
2. Keep Living for the Lord
Titus 2:11-14 (NIV)
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in
this present age,
13 while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own,
eager to do what is good.
2 Peter 3:12,14 (NIV)
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the
heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at
peace with him.
Matthew 24:45-47 (NASB77)
45 ” Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their
food at the proper time?
46 “Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
47 “Truly I say to you, that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
from: http://www.crossroads.org/attachments/Bible_02_14_2010.pdf
moscowbob
I am quite busy today so I am giving you a copy and paste answer.
Is 1 Cor. 15:52 the last trumpet the same as in Rev.11:15?
There’s no Biblical requirement that the Rapture of the Church spoken of in 1 Cor. 15:52 has to occur in conjunction with the 7th Trumpet judgment of Revelation. In fact only the coincidental use of the word trumpet connects them. Beside that how can you have a secret Rapture be the last in a series of predictable and identifiable events?
There are other trumpets mentioned in Scripture and in Jewish tradition. For instance the trumpet that closes the Feast of Trumpets is called the Last Trump. Does that mean the Rapture has to happen on the Feast of Trumpets? Or that the Trumpet judgments will occur during the Fall Feasts?
The 7th Trumpet judgment is never called the last trump, by the way, and is associated with the judgment of Earth, not the Rapture of the Church. Nor is it ever called the Trumpet Call of God as in 1 Thes. 4:16.
But there is an interesting connection between 1 Thes. 4:16 and Exodus 19:13, and both involve the Trumpet Call of God. In these two cases and only these two it’s the sound of the trumpet that’s important, not the trumpet itself, and in both cases the sound is said to be coming from God.
Some theologians say these two trumpets of God recall the two horns of the ram caught in the thicket when Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac. They call the Exodus Trumpet the left one, or First Trump, and say that God will call the Israelites back to the Land in the End Times by blowing the right one, or Last Trump. If this is the case then the Last Trump will most likely be blown at the close of the Battle of Ezekiel 38-39, placing the Rapture at the time of Ezekiel’s battle, as I believe it to be.
But the safest view is that Paul’s use of the phrase last trumpet in 1 Cor. 15:52 is simply to identify the trumpet call that accompanies the Rapture as the last one the Church will hear on Earth.
Deborah,
Thank you very much for your answer, but I have just read throught the post explaining the rapture, and I dont think I am ready to subscribe to such a docrine just yet – I am not so learned in the Word.
There are too many questions in my mind which conflict with this and I can see now that it will just lead to endless questions and answers.
For now I shall put it in the cateory “not from God” since there are too many arguments and theories (confusion) and does not comply with the simplicity of Christ in my mind.
I thank you for your time and effort, I appreciate it.
Kind regards and peace to you.
>>> moscowbob,March 9th – “Could somebody please exaplain to me where this fits with the rapture?”
from this I believe most would have understood that you really understand the rapture or at least ‘know’ about the rapture?
Then here in your post on the 11th you say you are not ready to subscribe to such a doc(t)rine as yet? and remark you’ll put it in cate(g)ory “not from God”?
ok, I’ll just answer this in shorthand for you:
Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ, no other subscription necessary => eternal life => rapture, at whatever stage of history.
James 5:8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lords’ coming is near!
thanks Deborah! I think you’ve posted a VERY thorough explanation about the rapture, seen from all sides!
moscowbob
Hmmmmm ok. Do you believe in Salvation? Where will you be during the tribulation. You can’t just knock those verses off the table and file them under ‘not of God’ when those are GOD’s Word.
Here is another for you:
The Last Trump
by Jamma Mokhriby
Part II
In part one of this series of messages on the Rapture we shared that there are 4 basic views of the timing of the removal of the Church from the earth. We also shared why this event described in I Thessalonians 4:14-18 and I Corinthians 15:48-55 is commonly referred to by believers as the “Rapture.”
Some believe the Rapture will take place at the end of the age before the start of the final 7 year Tribulation Period prophesied of in Daniel 9:27.
Believers who hold to this view are known as Pre-Tribulationists.
There are others who believe the Rapture will happen at some time during the Tribulation Period. These believers hold to positions called Mid-Trib or else Pre-Wrath.
Then lastly is the view that the catching up of believers will not take place until the close of the Tribulation as Christ is descending to the earth to destroy the wicked. This is known as Post-Trib.
Until proven otherwise by the Church entering the final 7 year Tribulation Period, we at “Rapture Watch” believe it is scriptural to devote our faith to the biblical instruction of expectancy inherent in the Pre-Trib position. To ignore the significant corroboration the Scriptures present for this teaching on the imminency of this Blessed Hope is unwise in our opinion. Placing the timing of the Rapture later casts an unwarranted shadow of fear regarding the Lord’s plan for His Church during the approaching time of terrible tribulation and Wrath.
One commonly used argument raised against the Pre-Trib position originates from the Rapture Scripture found in I Cor. 15:52. The Scripture reads, “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
Opponents to the Pre-Trib teaching maintain that this “last trump” must be the same one that the 7th Angel blows during the latter part of the Tribulation Period which is recorded in Revelation 10:7 since this is the last trumpet mentioned being blown in the Book of Revelation.
Pre-Trib opponents find themselves at odds with Scripture on this point when faced with the fact that the “angelic” 7th trumpet of Rev. 10:7 is not the last biblically recorded supernatural trumpet to ever be blown.
Isaiah 27:13 describes what will take place after Jesus Christ has returned to the earth. The time frame presented is after the Tribulation has concluded and Christ has begun His Millennial Reign. It is during this time that a supernatural trumpet will be heard throughout the lands.
Quoting we read, “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the Holy Mount at Jerusalem.”
This Scripture, along with Zechariah 9:14, which tells of the Lord blowing another trumpet at His return, provide substantial clarification regarding the timing of the Rapture.
First it verifies that the Last Trumpet spoken of at the Rapture in I Thess. 4:16 is a uniquely appointed trumpet designated for the end of the Church age and thoroughly refutes the Mid-Trib assertions that there are no other trumpets blown after the angelic tribulation trumpet of Rev. 10:7.
This is conclusive by the trumpets of Zechariah 9 and Isaiah 27 being blown at the very close and then again after the Tribulation – thus after the angelic 7th trumpet of Rev. 10:7
The angelic trump of Rev. 10:7 only presents the last in a series of seven blown trumpets. Revelation 11:15 reveals that this trumpet announces the day when Jesus will begin His reign and will lay His claim to the earth.
Without animosity for fellow believers in Christ who adhere to Post-Trib Rapture teachings, Isa. 27:13 and Zech. 9:14 also greatly narrows the field of debate as to the timing of the Rapture by eliminating the Post-Trib position entirely.
This is shown by the Isa. 27:13 statement about the people who “were ready to perish.” The mention of the fact that these people were about to perish verifies that they will be mortals.
The central question of importance is, “Who are these surviving mortals?”
According to Post-Trib adherents, when Jesus Christ returns with His saints (see Rev. 19:4 & Jude verses 14-15) the Church will have been caught up only moments earlier to join the Lord for warfare as He is descending from Heaven to do battle at Armageddon.
Their belief is that there is no time allowance for any communion or celebration between the Church and the Lord, but instead are abruptly changed into glorious, celestial beings in order to partake in the bloodiest war in history. For a brief moment the Lord’s trumpet blast prophesied of in Zech. 9:14 might appear to support this scenario.
Here the problem arises with the unknown mortals of Isa. 27:12-13. We know already by Isaiah that these mortals who were ready to perish are believers in the Lord because they are going up to Jerusalem during the millennium to worship Him.
So our first significant revelation from Scripture is that these people shown living during the earthly rule of Christ are mortal believers, who for some reason were not caught up to meet Christ and glorified with immortal bodies at His coming as Post-Trib theology requires.
Secondly, if these people had been unbelievers at Christ’s coming with His Saints, according to Rev. 13:7-8 they would have had to be destroyed as followers of the Anti-Christ.
Speaking of this man of sin and his followers we read, “And it was given unto him to make war with the [tribulation] saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Revelation 19:20-21 states without reservation that the Anti-Christ and all his followers are destroyed at Christ’s coming. John 3:18 makes this deadly fate of unbelievers at Christ’s coming quite plain.
The conclusion is logical and inescapable. Since there are mortal believers left alive during Christ’s reign who were not glorified at Christ’s coming they cannot be members of the entity known as the Church. Thus no Rapture of the Church will be taking place at the close of the Tribulation Period.
The saint-filled Church which is seen returning with Christ at His coming at Armageddon in Rev. 19 could only have been Raptured some time earlier then the Post-Trib teaching proposes.
As to who the mortal Millennium believers are who were about to perish, they can only be those who became believers after the Rapture took place.
These are the Tribulation saints who had to survive the murderous pursuit of the Anti-Christ described in Rev. 13:7. They will be permitted to live on in Christ’s kingdom alongside the resurrected Old Testament saints who were promised an earthly inheritance.
The simple reason why they were not Raptured and glorified at Christ’s coming is because the Rapture had to have already taken place prior to that time. These are the surviving and resurrected believers who will repopulate the planet under Christ’s ruler ship as is revealed to us in such passages as Zechariah 8:3-5 and Daniel 12:9 & 13.
Additional scriptural proof for this prophetic picture is conclusive. The initial gathering together of all the wicked for destruction at Christ’s coming with His Saints can be verified by the scriptural passages found in Matthew 13:30,38-42 & 49-50 & 24:38-41.
Then the subsequent preserving and gathering together of the remaining mortal believers with a trumpet after His return is shown in Matt. 24:22 & 29-30.
It is a worthwhile endeavor for prophecy students to more thoroughly explore Zechariah 9:14 where we are told of the one other time than I Corinthians 15:22 when God will blow His trumpet.
As we have shared, the time of this trumpet blast is at the close of the Great Tribulation. Chapters 9 & 10 of Zech., when read in full context, abundantly refutes any notion that this is the trumpet blast heralding the Rapture since believers are not changed into glorified beings, but are instead anointed upon the earth as great warriors. They do not return with the Lord from Heaven, but are aided from Heaven.
We are shown that these are mortal believers who, after the Lord returns, will thrive as mortals in the land of Israel. Zechariah 10:8-10 further reveals that these are the same mortals who in Isa. 27:13 were about to perish in the lands of Assyria and Egypt.
The passage in Zech. 9:14 prophesies that the day of this trumpet blast is the same day of the Lord’s return. If at any point in history there could possibly be a Post-Trib Rapture of the living this surely should have been it, but there is none!
The unbelievers are gathered and destroyed at this time while the believers remain mortals on the earth to fight, conquer, regather, thrive and reproduce.
The glorious last trumpet of I Cor. 15:52, when the Church is Raptured, had to have taken place at some point earlier. If not, then it would be impossible to find any mortals left to repopulate the millennial earth; everyone would have been immortalized or destroyed when Christ returned at Armageddon.
Revelation 11:15 & 12:10 reveal that the trumpet blast of Rev. 10:;7 declares the end of Satan’s position of authority over the earth from his previous position in the heavens, not the Rapture of the Church.
In conclusion, the Scriptures offer no support in any manner to the teaching that the trumpets of the 7th “Angel” in Rev. 10:7 is the same as the trumpet of “God” blown at the Rapture in I Thess. 4 & I Cor. 15.
It is straight forwardly presented as the last of 7 angelic trumpets blown in a sequence as God releases His wrath upon a Christ-rejecting world. Scripture reveals there have been and will be other heavenly trumpet blasts to signal the end (or beginning) of other eventful occasions. The term “last trumpet” in no way means the sound of a trumpet will never be heard again.
The only question which remains critical at this point is, are you ready for the Last Trump which will signal the close of the Church Age and the glorification and gathering together of the body of Christ?
Be sure right now by putting your faith in the Living Lord Jesus Christ who paid the full penalty for the sins of the world by shedding His own precious blood on the cross.
Trust in Him alone for your salvation can assure your receipt of His blessed atonement, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (I Thess. 4:16-17).
Hello Deborah,
DTW:
Hmmmmm ok. Do you believe in Salvation?
Are you being sarcastic, or are you suggesting that unless I believe in a “fly away” theory, I am not saved?
DTW:
Where will you be during the tribulation?
I do not know, maybe dead. Otherwise, relying on the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, to be faithfull to the end, not fearing those who can only destroy the body, contending for the faith once delivered to the saints.
DTW:
You can’t just knock those verses off the table and file them under ‘not of God’ when those are GOD’s Word.
But I can test the spirits, prove all things. The parable of the “Wheat and the Tares” gives a very clear, specific and concise explanation of the end times. And according to Jesus, all Christians stays put and the WICKED are removed.
I cannot read every occasion of saint, cloud, trump, air etc and get excited about “secretly flying away” when Jesus said the servant is not greater than the master, if they persecuted Him, so will they persecute us – When did we become so special?
Kind regards and peace to you.
moscowbob
I am never sarcastic about salvation. You can believe whatever you want on pre-trib or post-trib it makes no difference. You stated in the very beginning that “I am not so learned in the Word.” and now state that you “can’t read every occasion of ‘saint, cloud, trump, air, etc” and actually come to a conclusion using the intelligence and logic that God gave you to process information, nevermind the time and enegry to find yourself approved.
And of course you test. Never said you must not. But based on your comments, your version of ‘testing’ has a lot of holes in it. You have to look at everything, every verse and the history behind those verses to understand it. As for the verse of the wheat and the tares, that has nothing to do with the end times, but now, Jesus came to save and he came to judge, he came to separate the wheat from the tares.
Anyhow, just carry on testing….your way.
Hello Deborah
I am never sarcastic about salvation.
==>Please check your words
You can believe whatever you want on pre-trib or post-trib it makes no difference.
==> If it makes no difference what is the point, does it glorify Christ ? I believe in no-trib
You stated in the very beginning that “I am not so learned in the Word.”
==> Correct, I have no formal education in theology
and now state that you “can’t read every occasion of ’saint, cloud, trump, air, etc” and actually come to a conclusion using the intelligence and logic that God gave you to process information,
==>Once again the condecending, arrogant, sarcastic assumption that I am too stupid to see the “truth” of the “fly away” theory
nevermind the time and enegry to find yourself approved.
==> This is not sarcasm, this is an accusation that I am lazy and unapproved
And of course you test.
==> Thank you this is what I am doing.
Never said you must not.
==> Never accused you of making such a statement
But based on your comments, your version of ‘testing’ has a lot of holes in it.
==>Once again the arrogant, sarcastic punctuation
You have to look at everything, every verse and the history behind those verses to understand it.
==>That is good advice, based on this why did Paul describe the falling away, man of sin, tribulation – why did he not simply state as you would – “People, dont be stupid the end is not here because we are still here”
As for the verse of the wheat and the tares, that has nothing to do with the end times, but now, Jesus came to save and he came to judge, he came to separate the wheat from the tares.
DTW:
“But based on your comments, your version of ‘testing’ has a lot of holes in it.”
Test 1: Jesus came to judge the world – FAILED
Joh 12:47
(47) And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Test 2: Wheat and tares have nothing to do with end times – FAILED
Mat 13:39
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Test 3: Jesus came to seperate the wheat from the tares – FAILED
Mat 13:41
(41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Anyhow, just carry on testing….your way.
==> It seems to have proved you as either a liar or just as unlearned and unapproved as myself. Your superior way of testing seems to have failed you.
Kind regards and peace to you.
Hello Cecilia,
from this I believe most would have understood that you really understand the rapture or at least ‘know’ about the rapture?
==> Correct, I have just not been convinced(deceived??) yet.
Then here in your post on the 11th you say you are not ready to subscribe to such a doc(t)rine as yet? and remark you’ll put it in cate(g)ory “not from God”?
==>Correct, there are major factors that leads me to reject this
1: The historic evidence of the origin of this is suspect.
2: It causes major division in the Body Of Christ
3: There is no glory for Jesus in this theory.
4: It does not prepare the Christian for suffering which builds faith.
ok, I’ll just answer this in shorthand for you:
Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ, no other subscription necessary => eternal life => rapture, at whatever stage of history.
==> I shall return the favour – Salvation => eternal life => Stand till the end
James 5:8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lords’ coming is near!
==>Mat 24:4
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
thanks Deborah! I think you’ve posted a VERY thorough explanation about the rapture, seen from all sides!
==> I disagree, it will show all sides if and only if Deborah presents this to include no rapture. I would like to suggest that Deborah(since she shows an aptitude for research), do a rebuttal of her own case. If this is done with no bias and pre-conception of rapture theory, will make for an excellent read.
Kind regards and peace to you.
moscowbob
Yes my apologies I was wrong on the wheat and the tares, well not really because the wheat and the tears is for the very end and it’s for JERUSALEM and you are not a Jew. So it’s FOR NOW on what is happening in the church and it’s for the END TIMES but for Israel only.
For Jesus right now judges and separates the wheat from the tares, the church has been infiltrated with fake ‘wheat’ among real wheat. Just as it was happening at the time Jesus walked the earth. The final separation is for the last days that is for those who are left during the tribulation, when Israel is under attack.
Matt 13:24-30
Tares among Wheat
24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “(A)The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25″But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed [a]tares among the wheat, and went away.
26″But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27″The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’
28″And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’
29″But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30’Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but (B)gather the wheat into my barn.”
Matt 13:36-45
Tares explained
36Then He left the crowds and went into (J)the house And His disciples came to Him and said, “(K)Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is (L)the Son of Man,
38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are (M)the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are (N)the sons of (O)the evil one;
39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is (P)the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40″So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at (Q)the end of the age.
41″(R)The Son of Man (S)will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all (T)stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42and (U)will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place (V)there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43″(W)Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father (X)He who has ears, let him hear.
Your blatant nastiness is getting out of control. You came here not to discuss, but to find fault with me. You are getting nasty and the ‘peace to you’ at the end of your comments does not cancel out whatever your plan is.
So move along. You have made up your mind long ago what you believe. I don’t care what you believe. And I am not going to entertain your little games either.
silence…..
>>>Deborah, March 12th “Jesus came to save and he came to judge”
so she touches that Jesus came to save, but in the end (which is connected to the topic discussion, He’ll judge.
>>>> moscowbob, March 13th “Test 1: Jesus came to judge the world – FAILED
Joh 12:47
(47) And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
My conclusion: you read what you want/like and form your opinion there-upon. YOU failed!
Ps 96: …then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice 13Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.
read also Rev.18:11; 1Pe.4:1-4; 2Tim.4:1; Jhn.8:16 and more.
Revelation 22:19
I’m NOT stating this Word for you to comment back. You’ve said enough – your own words should be enough food for thought to yourself… you don’t really need anyone to argue this out against because you already had a set viewpoint from the beginning.
Hello Cecilia and Deborah,
Before I move along as requested, I wish to state a few points if I may.
Cecilia:
How did you read the response from Deborah(below) to me and conclude that she meant the end times?
(DTW)
“As for the verse of the wheat and the tares, that has nothing to do with the end times, but now, Jesus came to save and he came to judge, he came to separate the wheat from the tares.”
Did you read the part where she states “..has nothing to do with the end times, BUT NOW” ?
Did you read the part where she states “Jesus CAME to save and he CAME to judge..” ?
Aso, the verses you supplied in defense of Deborah’s statement, all refer to the future judgment by Christ. So you see I did not read what I want/like, but what as written and based on that, I funished my responses.
Deborah:
I apologise if you have been offended in any manner by my responses, that was not my intention. However, I furnished my replies based on the words, sentences and thoughts in your posts – I clarified back to you what I read in your replies and you took that as a peronal attack.
I also sensed some anger, agitation and impatience towards anybody that does not agree with these rapture theories.
Since you have taken the responsibility to teach the Word and expose false prophets and doctrines, you should make sure that you do not create a stumbling block for new Christians or those not so proficient in the Word – essentially, you are a role model for all who visit your website.
I think you are doing a great service to all who read here and it does not come at no cost. But I would like to urge you to take up my request in prayer – Please do an objective study of the rapture theories, including the Jesuit connection and Margaret McDonald, do a rebuttal of your current conclusions.
Present a case of no rapture(except, all will be changed when Christ returns), this way your site will present a fully unbiased view of false prophets and false doctrines and you will not cause people to stumble through confusion and you will not have to defend theories that, as you replied to me ” does not matter what you believe.”
In conclusion, you should care what people believe, is that not the whole purpose of your website?
As for me, no, I am not playing games but care very much what you teach.
Kind regards
moscowbob
Ditto
my mistake MoscowB!
a remark (you’re more than welcome to respond): the words you chose in your last comment and the way it is put together, doesn’t sound like someone who is “not so learned in the Word” 11 March. You ‘sound’ very much ‘learned’ to me – a pastor perhaps?.
also,
From http://www.discerningtheworld.com/about-this-blog-rules/
12. Discerning The World is a A Genuine Christian website for Genuine Christians. We are here to defend the Christian faith, stand up for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are not ashamed.
We do our best to write articles in a very self explanatory manner for all to understand and will always give credit to the original author of the article we reference. The entire point of this website is to give credit to the others material – because we are EXPOSING false teachers and their teachings.
so she ‘cares’ what other people believe, but
# Jesus Christ the Son of God commands us to test everything that is said to His Word. The Holy Spirit abides in born again Christians as your counselor and comforter and will always lead genuine Christians into all truth, understanding and remembrance of Jesus Christ when studying the Word of God.
# There is only ONE truth. You can’t agree to disagree with the Bible – ever!
# We will NEVER tell anyone to listen to what we have to say, and will always request you consult the Bible for yourself. This is why we have the Word of God at our disposal, so we don’t have to take another’s word for it – but can read God’s Word for ourselves.
C
Ditto 🙂
Hello Cecilia,
Thank you for the compliment but I am not formally educated in theology and I am not a pastor either – I do however read a lot and I have a good electronic Bible.
I understand and respect from which position this website is presented. But while contemplating my response to Deborah and praying about it, it became clear to me how teaching the Word and subscribing to a controvertial subject, puts her credibility in jeopardy and could lead to conflicting situations.
Because of the below, I urged Deborah to do a study of the gathering together as in the traditional/orthodox understanding and post it on the site.
Act 8:30-31
(30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
(31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
1Co 8:11-12
(11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Please, this is not criticism or accusation – but you are teaching/guiding on this site and could be held accountable.
Good luck with the site
Kind regards 🙂
moscowbob
>> I understand and respect from which position this website is presented. But while contemplating my response to Deborah and praying about it, it became clear to me how teaching the Word and subscribing to a controvertial subject, puts her credibility in jeopardy and could lead to conflicting situations.
Get over your it. We are talking about a subject that has been debated for years. Now you want to hold me accountable because you wont agree with me, or I with you??? Ah, it’s I with you, thats the problem.
Anyhow. Enough is enough.