Jacob Prasch & Chuck Missler – Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch, Chuck Missler - Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch and his friend Chuck Missler both teach the the same demonic Nephilim teaching that angels came down to earth and had sexual relations with human women who somehow miraculously gave birth to ginormous babies who grew to be around 450 feet tall.  Imagine that!  The poor woman must have died giving birth, oh wait…what about carrying a baby that big? *Let’s all laugh together shall we*

The thing is, this is false teaching, it’s a pack of demonic lies, yet Jacob Prasch continues to tells us ‘his opinion’ over and over and over again, brainwashing an unsuspecting audience.  Why does he not examine the Bible only to find the truth of the matter?  Instead of look at occult sources for answers, and then try and fit the bible into his occult conclusions. What is so important about this false demonic Nephilim teachingthat he must keep mentioning it?  And no one bothers to question him because they are all too scared for fear of the backlash.  (See bottom of article regarding backlash by Jacob Prasch).  Well here at DTW we are not scared.  We will ask Jacob Prach why he preaches this doctrine.

Now we understand that Jacob Prasch used Midrash (which contains many fantastical tales relating to the Bible and secret knowledge), to help him come to his conclusions, and we know that Midrash is EXTRA BIBLICAL!  (See this article: Moriel Ministries and MIDRASH)

Lets have a look and see what Jacob Prasch has to say regarding the demonic Nephilim. 

The Future History of the Church, Part 1

by James Jacob Prasch

A typological and midrashic examination of what will happen in the future of the church by seeing how the past history of the church is recapitulated eschatologically; how past events happen again in the Last Days. What to expect, and what to prepare for.  [Emphasis added]

The demonic Nephilim Then and Now

When I was a young Christian, I was a hippie who got saved out of the drug culture. We used to witness eight hours a day sometimes because we thought Jesus was coming next week, so what did anything else matter? I met so many people who said their beliefs were based on gods on other planets, UFOs and such.

When Jimmy Carter became President of the United States, he declassified something called The Blue Report that was put together by the American Air Force, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It was not all declassified, but Carter declassified a major portion of it. They found no evidence from exobiology for extraterrestrial life, but they had innumerable cases of people using parapsychology to conjure up extraterrestrial phenomena; there were even cultists who could make these things appear. Similar studies were done in Great Britain. Reading the Blue Report can be quite frightening. There is no scientific basis for belief in extraterrestrials, but a firmly recorded basis in the occult. Uri Geller, the Israeli spoon-bender, said that there were people on other planets trying to persuade him to be the Messiah.

The demonic Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the demonic Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different demonic Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No one is divided over this issue, only false teachers who want to tickle the ears of their followers want to divide the truth into error.  Please read below under the heading of  The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the demonic Nephilim to understand the Biblical truth of the demonic Nephilim.]

Now, most of the popular “deliverance ministry” going around today is a lot of Ghostbusters-type nonsense with no Scriptural basis; I would seriously question whether most of these people could handle real demon possession if it ever faced them – it’s no joke. But I once cast a demon out of a black necromancer who was having sexual relations with demons.

There was a witch in England on television in America, who gave her testimony when she got saved and told of having intercourse with a devil; people witnessed this. This kind of activity was around in the days of Noah, and it will be around again in the Last Days. Somehow demonoids – they were virtual monsters – will exist on the earth again, as they did in Noah’s day. We will see an increase in occult activity, but particularly in this kind of high Satanism; even to the point of people having relations with demons. It already goes on, but it’s going to increase.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  To compare a testimony of someone who had sexual relations with the devil to that of Genesis 6 is pure speculation.  First note that people today who have relations with demons do not fall pregnant – never have and never will.  Will we see an increase in demonic activity, yes, but to say that we will see a rise of the demonic Nephilim again in the end times as was back in the days of Noah is not the truth.]

Man is utterly fallen. I studied science in university, and I have no problem with science. However, it remains that man is fallen. So while I have no problem with science, I know what happens when you put science into the hands of fallen man. It is easy to visualize the kinds of atrocities that can be accomplished with biogenetic engineering; people can eventually take DNA, clone it, and re-create Josef Stalin or a whole race of Josef Stalins. There are things happening right now in genetics that when I studied biology in university would have seemed like science fiction; they no longer are.

I have no doubt – I am not teaching this doctrinally, this is my own opinion – that the world is being set up for a huge spiritual seduction in which UFOs and extraterrestrials along with other things of this type will play a role. It can be seen in David Bowie’s albums and in Stephen Spielberg’s movies, for example. The Bible talks about “the fallen ones”; the ones who fell from heaven, the demonic Nephilim. The cosmos needs to be cleansed. I am quite convinced that extraterrestrial phenomena will be a large part of the spiritual seduction that is on its way. I am also quite afraid of the developments in biogenetic engineering – not the developments themselves, but seeing that kind of technology in the hands of fallen man. When combined with the occult, which scientology and other of these types of groups are already doing, the ramifications are terrible. Somehow, there was a physical manifestation of demons in the days of Noah; that will recur in some way in the Last Days before the Return of Jesus. I won’t speculate on it further, but I do see the way things are heading. This is the kind of world that we have to prepare our children to live in; think about that and then tell me you don’t believe in Christian school!   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  First Jacob Prasch says he has no doubt, but then goes on to tell you that this is NOT BIBLICAL DOCTRINE, it’s only HIS OPINION.  If it’s his opinion, then why oh why is he preaching his opinion as if it were doctrine!  Jacob Prasch preaches this demonic Nephilim teaching on very video I’ve watched, practically ever conference I’ve watched, and mentions it in practically every book he writes.  Why?  Why is he so enthusiastic on getting this lie out to the people?  So they can run over to Chuck Missler’s website and be ensnared in the trap that has been set up for them there?  He says “the fallen ones” meaning “those who fell from heaven”, instead it actually means “apostates”, it is a passive form of  “ones who have fallen”. “The cosmos needs to be cleansed” he says?  What a load of nonsense.  [Emphasis added]

He says we have to prepare our children to live in a world with demon monsters walking around before Jesus returns (presumably before the rapture).  No my dear readers, prepare you and your children for a lot worse;  for men (who don’t look like monsters at all), but who come to you as wolves in sheep’s clothing preaching doctrines contrary to scripture leading you and your children to hell.

Yes there will be an increase in demonic activity in the atmosphere, it is increasing daily as Satan’s time nears an end and people’s minds are caught up in doctrines of demons – Christianity no longer exists, Paganism is now the religion of choice,  just as it was in the Days of Noah – wickedness abounds and will increase to unprecedented proportions.  Just as it was in the Days of Noah and before that, there were extremely wicked people ruling, like we have today; family’s of statue (Rothchilds, Rockerfellers, etc) dictating Satan’s way forward into a NWO.

Source: (link no longer online)

The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the Nephilim

Are the demonic Nephilim demonic monsters or are they not? The reason I am so passionate about the answer to this question is because of the rise in interest in the supernatural, i.e, aliens, trans-humanism etc.  There are stories running abound that during the end-times demons will be free to do as they please on earth, producing offspring like the demonic Nephilim.  The bible is very clear that we are to not let our minds be captured by occult imagination because when human minds get hold of unbiblical ideas it runs free and causes all sorts of havoc.

Note:  Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.  DTW endorses this below article only.

Nephilim

By Pastor Anton Bosch – Permission received by Anton Bosch to re-publish his article.  

The Hebrew word Nephilim is translated “giants” in the Old Testament. It only appears twice in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33.  A whole series of doctrines have been built around this word, in spite of the fact that the word only appears rarely. These doctrines on the Nephilim are based on Genesis 6:1-4. (It must be noted that most speculators lean very heavily on extra-biblical writings for most of their information.) The theories can basically be summed up as follows:

Demons / angels (sons of God) had illicit relationships with women (the daughters of men) and these perverted relations produced genetically mutated beings known as Nephilim (giants). God then imprisoned some of the angles who did this and in order to purify the bloodline of man God brought on the Flood. Through genetic engineering these demonic Nephilim will be resurrected, one of which will be the Antichrist[i]. To these people, the demonic Nephilim are also connected to so-called extra-terrestrial forms of life.

Since these theories are gaining ground and a number of books have been published based on this hypothesis, it is necessary to examine Genesis 6 again and see what exactly it teaches. We will discover that the proponents of these theories break every principle of hermeneutics. Here is the text:

“Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown”. (Genesis 6:1-4)

Sons of God

The first problem revolves around who in the passage are the “sons of God”. Some make the connection with Job 1:6; 2:1. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” (Job 1:6). It is obvious, and not contested, that the “sons of God” in Job were angels. But does that mean that this term in Genesis 6:2 also refers to angels?

First, the normal meaning of “sons of God” is “believers”. “But as many as received him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12). Job 1:6 (a poetic book) is the only place where angels are called “sons of God”. It is logical and reasonable therefore that the normal meaning be attached to the term here, rather than the exception, as found in Job, unless there were something in the text that made a connection between Genesis 6 and Job 1 – which is absent.

Second Jesus explicitly said that “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30) (See also Luke 20:34-36). Therefore in Jesus’ own words, angels are asexual and do not procreate.

So here is the problem. Genesis is obscure about who had the relations. Jesus said angels do not have relations. So either Jesus was mistaken or the “sons of God” were not angels. You choose! It is really as simple as that – there are no other options.

Some try to get around this by saying that the angels inhabited (possessed) human bodies to do this. That sounds good. But here is the question: A Christian man has the Holy Spirit in him. When that man produces a child by his wife, what is the child? God or man? Clearly, it is a man. There are multitudes of people in the world who are demon possessed and who procreate. What do they produce? Human babies or mutants? Obviously human babies. So why should Genesis 6 be any different. If demons entered into men to produce offspring the children would be human, and only human.

One of the principles of hermeneutics is that the Old Testament is interpreted in the light of the New Testament and not the other way round. In order to say that the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 are angels (or demons) we must discard the light of the NT and that should never happen.

The nature of the relationships

The next problem is that it is claimed that the angels had illicit relations with women. Yet the text is very clear: “they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose” (Genesis 6:2b). The phrase “took wives for themselves” only, and always, means marriage. It never refers to casual, illicit or adulterous relationships. (See Genesis 11:29 &Ruth 1:4). To suggest otherwise is reading into the text that which is simply not there.

Giants

The theory goes that the giants were the product of these illicit relationships. We have shown that the text does not refer to illicit relationships and that the fathers could not be angels.

Genesis 6:4, again is very clear: “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.”  Notice that it says there were giants (fact number 1) and afterwards the sons of God came into… (fact number 2). There is NO connection between the fact that there were giants and the fact that people had children.

It is exactly like me saying: “There is milk in the supermarket and eggs are $1.50 a dozen” Milk has no effect on the price, or even the existence, of eggs and the other way around. I am simply stating two facts that describe things about food in the supermarket.

In Genesis 6 Moses is describing the state of the world before the flood. He makes no connection between the demonic Nephilim and the sons of God and daughters of men. If the sentence had been reversed as follows: “The sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore demonic Nephilim then you could postulate some theory about the nature of this process. But the text does not give us any room to connect the demonic Nephilim with these marriages.

Genesis 6:4 does say that the children that were produced “were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown“. “Mighty men” is a term which is used 154 times in the OT and simply refers to powerful men, either physically or politically. Just like there are many mighty men today and some are men of God and others are worldly and unsaved, so there were mighty men in those days, of which Noah was one.

“Men of old” also holds no mystique, these were simply the heroes of bygone days.

“Men of renown” is also used in Numbers 16:2 and Ezekiel 23:23. These are famous men, or well-known men. The Hebrew term literally means “men with a name” meaning they had “made a name” for themselves.

The descendants of these relationships were not monsters, mutants, or anything extraordinary. Some were ordinary people and some were powerful, some were little known and others had made a name for themselves. Genesis 6:5 (the next verse) goes on to describe these people as wicked and worthy of God’s judgment.

Furthermore, the translation of the word demonic Nephilim in Genesis 6:4 as “giants” is very arbitrary. There are many other possible ways this word could be translated here: “Bullies”, “mighty ones” or “tyrants”.  At least one dictionary states that the demonic Nephilim in Genesis and in Numbers were two different peoples[ii]. Once again, we cannot build an entire doctrine on a word which we cannot translate or explain with any measure of certainty.

Genesis 6:4 is simply a description of life before the flood and not a commentary on mysterious genetic mutant life forms. Jesus obviously has this verse in mind when he says: “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (Matthew 24:37-39) (note the reference to marriage in both verses).

One of the most important principles of hermeneutics is that the verse has to be read in its context. The context is clear, that life was going on as usual, people were becoming more and more self-absorbed and sinful but judgment was coming. This is the same point Jesus was making in Matthew 24 – people will be self-absorbed and fixated on every-day life and will not be ready for His coming.

The cause of the Flood

Those who speculate about the demonic Nephilim connect them with the reason for the Flood. Once again, there is no connection there. Genesis 6 describes life on earth. Yes, there were Nephilim, but more significantly, people were marrying and having children and becoming more wicked. Genesis 6:5-6 cannot be clearer. God’s judgment fell because of the wickedness of man. This had absolutely nothing to do with demons, angels or mutants. Look at these verses again: “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”(Genesis 6:5-7).

If the flood had anything to do with anything other than man’s sinfulness, either Moses or Jesus would have said something in that regard, but both are silent about demons, angels and mutants. The flood had nothing to do with clearing the gene pool. It was all about clearing the earth of sinful and wicked people. Even Sunday school children should be able to tell you that.

If the flood had anything to do with God wanting to destroy the giants because they were “contaminated seed” or to purge the gene pool then, Noah and his sons should have been destroyed also. Noah and his sons carried the gene from which giants were formed. This is obvious since giants (demonic Nephilim) are born after the flood and were present in the Land when the spies were sent to scout out the land (Numbers 13:33). These giants were descendants of Noah since all of humankind after the flood descended from Noah.

Extra-biblical evidence

These speculators quote the Book of Enoch (and other apocryphal books) in support of their ideas as though they are Scripture. Yet, Enoch and the rest of the Apocrypha are not part of the canon of Scripture for obvious reasons – they are not, and have never been regarded as inspired except by apostate churches and false teachers.

Once again they break one of the fundamentals of Evangelical and Reformed hermeneutics: We hold only to Scripture and do not add, nor subtract from it (Revelation 22:18; Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32). It is especially reprehensible to formulate an entire doctrine on extra-biblical evidence as these people are doing.

The fact is that there is overwhelming evidence in very old writings that the Hebrew sages never regarded the “sons of God” as angels or demons. But we dare not use that as evidence lest we sink to the same level as these speculators.

Jude 6 is quoted in support of the theories. This verse says:

  • “And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6).

Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

2 Peter 2:4-5

Verse 4 is similar to Jude 6:

  • For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly.” (2 Peter 2:4-5).

To those who pluck verses out of their context there appears to be a connection between the sinning angels and the flood. But look at the context:

  • 2 Peter 2:1-3 There were, and will be, false teachers and they will “bring upon themselves swift destruction“.
  • 2 Peter 2:4 Angels sinned and God “reserved them for judgment
  • 2 Peter 2:5 The ancient world sinned and God judged them by the flood but spared Noah
  • 2 Peter 2:6-8 Sodom and Gomorrah sinned and God judged them but spared Lot
  • 2 Peter 2:9 Therefore in the future, the Lord will judge the unjust and save the godly.

The angels and the pre-flood world are simply two of four examples that Peter quotes to show that God will punish sin. The connections between the sinning angels and the flood are the same connection with false teachers and Sodom – the connections have nothing to do with gene mutation but is all about sin and the consequences thereof.

Conclusion

The purpose of this brief article is not to provide answers to all the questions that surround Genesis 6. In fact, we do not have all the answers and those who claim they have a full and detailed explanation for these verses are speculating. The point of the text in Genesis 6, and 2Peter 2 is to warn that God will not tolerate sin and will judge it.

But what we are certain of is that the theories about angels producing mutant life forms are not Biblical and that the conclusions derived from this theory are fictional, at best.

  • “…charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith“. (1 Timothy 1:3-4).
  • “But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.”(1 Timothy 4:7).
  • For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

[i] This is a very brief and highly sanitized summary of some very extreme and bizarre teachings. But it must also be noted that those who hold to these teachings differ greatly amongst themselves as to how far they take their conclusions.

[ii]Thomas, R. L. (1998). New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.

More important notes:

1)  David and Goliath – 

TheGreatKhali

Yes, there were giants but not in the sense of the pictures of Jack and the beanstalk. Goliath was anywhere between 6’9” to 10′ tall.  The oldest manuscripts – the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the first-century historian Josephus, and the fourth century Septuagint manuscripts – all give his height as “four cubits and a span”, about six feet, nine inches tall (two meters), but later manuscripts have it as “six cubits and a span,” which would make him almost ten feet tall (three meters). The average height of the LA Lakers basketball team is 6’4″, with a few of them at 6’9″.  

Andre the Giant from the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) stood at 7’4″ while the Great Khali currently stands at 7’1″.  [Note that DTW has never referred to the dead-sea scrolls for information, but to help explain Goliath in this instance, it is very necessary.]

Saul stood “head-and-shoulders” above the rest of the people and David (it seems) could fit into his armour. David appears extra small to Goliath because he was just a youth when he fought and killed Goliath. However when David grew up he was able to use Goliath’s sword (1 Sam 21). So as adults David and Saul were almost as big as Goliath! – now that’s a revolutionary thought!

The same goes for the Canaanites, they were giant men, but not from another world.  There is no possible way that these giants were of an extraterrestrial nature because the bible does not say so – the bible does say there were giants before the flood and their DNA must have been in Noah because the DNA is carried forward to beyond the flood. We need to remain silent on the things the Bible is silent on – we can’t go around and make wild speculations as many well known pastors are doing.  To again speculate that angels came down again to have relations with human women to produce more giants after the flood is just nonsense.

2)  Those giant skeletons they supposedly found in Greece and Middle East –

There is a good reason we haven’t heard about this epic discovery in the New York TimesScientific American, or any other legitimate publication, and that is that these photos, like the one circulating since 2004 purporting to show a giant skeleton found in the Middle East, are fakes.

As if it weren’t preposterous enough to claim that one 15-foot-tall fossilized human skeleton had turned up without media fanfare, we’re asked to believe that archaeologists recently dug up four of them in a single location (Greece). In point of fact, each of the photos appears to have been taken at a different time and place.

So far I’ve only been able to locate the original of one of them, but it serves as clear proof that Photoshopping took place. Image #4 was created by inserting an outsized human skull into a photo of a 1993 University of Chicago dinosaur dig in Niger, Africa (see the original here). If you look at a blow-up of the doctored image, the skull appears flattened and unnatural (and one of the workers actually appears to be standing on it!).

Moreover, the same cut-and-pasted skull was used to create image #2 (see side-by-side comparison). A blow-up of image #2 with brightness and contrast enhanced reveals unnaturally dark “shadows” around the skull. The skull in Image #3 is marked by incongruously bright highlights on the teeth and around the edges of the gaping temple wound. And in image #5 the shadows coming off the skeleton fall more or less toward the camera, while the worker’s shadow falls due left, suggesting that elements of two different photos were combined.

Finally, despite frequent references to “giants” in ancient mythology and English translations of the Bible, there is no generally accepted scientific or historical evidence that such beings ever actually existed (unless you consider the Weekly World News a reliable source).

See here for more giant skeletons pictures and why they are a hoax as well:  http://yowcrooks.blogspot.com/2008/12/giant-skeleton-hoax.html

3)  A greater understanding of Jude 5-10:

  • And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6)

Jude 6 is quoted in support of their theories connecting it to Genesis 6 that angels came down and had relations with women. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

To explain Jude 5 – 8 properly, it contains a number of separate examples of God judging  sin. Just like paprables where there is a central truth and the only connection between the parables is that truth (e.g. That which was lost is found: lost coin, lost sheep, lost son).  Here there are four examples showing the same truth that God judges sin. The examples are: 1) Israel’s unbelief in not crossing into the land, 2) angels who did not keep their proper domain, 3) Sodom and Gomorrah’s sexual sin and 4) false teachers.

If there is a sexual connection between Sodom and the angels (the angels sinned in a sexual way) then there must also be a connection between Sodom and Israel and between Israel and the angels. But that is not the link here.  The link is SIN. In the case of Israel it is unbelief (Hebrews 3 & 4), in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it is homosexuality and in the case of the angels it was rebellion when Satan was cast down from heaven and 1/3 of the angels followed.

Note that the text must be read in its context and we cannot simply make connections and draw conclusions that are not there. Now concerning the statement “who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode”. People connect that to Sodom and say that this means angels had relations with women. But we need to examine the statement carefully. The first word “proper domain” according to Thayer means:

– Original: oiketerion
– Transliteration: Arche
– Phonetic: ar-khay’
– Definition:
1.  beginning, origin
2.  the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3.  that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4.  the extremity of a thing
a.  of the corners of a sail
5.  the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a.  of angels and demons

Note the word is “Arche” from which we get “arch-enemy”, “arch-rival” etc. This has nothing to do with sexual orientation but with primacy, authority etc. The second is “abode”. This is also a very common word: (oiketerion) which simply means house, habitation or abode.The verse then teaches that the angels did not remain in their proper authority and left their place. This could be construed to mean they had relations with the daughters of men. But it forces and construes a meaning that is NOT obvious to the sentence.

A more natural interpretation is that the angels rebelled against God’s authority at the very beginning when Satan was cast out of heaven and left their place in the order and hierarchy of God. The English Standard version (ESV) is one of the best translations available. The ESV has the verse as follows:  “And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day-

This is supported by June 9-10 which speaks about false preachers who do not know their proper place when dealing with the Devil and demons (and yes, Satan is a “dignitary”  – powerful person.

What we do not know is why some of these angels (demons) were chained in the “abyss” and others were left to roam the earth. We can only surmise that some sinned more grievously than others. But it also seems that the Lord can (and probably does) throw more of them into the abyss for whatever reason:

  • Luke 8:30-32   30 Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.  32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them.

  Now for Jude 7:  The cities around them refers to Admah and Zeboim:  

  • Deuteronomy 29:23  “And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:”
  • Hosea 11:8  “How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.”

The words “similar manner to these” can only refer to the most recently mentioned subjects – the cities. There is no way, at all that it can refer to the Angels. No language works like that.

When we say “Tom went to church and John went to the mall and Jerry went to the beach and he got sunburned.” The “he” can only refer to the most recent subject – Jerry.

So the meaning is very clear and obvious that Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to immorality and Admah and Zeboim did likewise. There is no other possibility.The problem here is that it all begins with a bad exegesis is Genesis 6. If you read Genesis 6 to mean that Angels had relations with women (and reject the words of Jesus that they cannot) then you have to find further support. Once you have jumped to that conclusion, it is easy to misread and misinterpret Jude 6 & Jude 7. But if you do not make assumptions about relations between angels and women, then there is no way you can read that into Jude. So, you have to force the meaning of Gen 6 and then you have to force the meaning of Jude 6 to come to a conclusion.

source:  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/the-truth-about-the-sons-of-god-the-daughters-of-men-and-the-nephilim/

Alien Encounter -Chuck Missler

Some false teaching by Chuck Missler.

‘And Also After That’:

The Return of the Nephilim?

by Chuck Missler – September 1997 Personal Update NewsJournal.

In the last article, “Mischievous Angels or Sethites?” we explored the importance of understanding Genesis 6. The straightforward presentation of the text seems to clearly portray a strange union of fallen angels with women to produce a hybrid race called the “Nephilim,” or fallen ones.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW NOTE:  The straightforward presentation of the text clearly states that it was the marriages of the seed of godly Seth with the daughters of ungodly Cain. Not angels with women.]

We enumerated the reasons we accept the “angel” view and why the liberal “Sethite” view is inadequate.

[DTW note:  Oh so you do not accept the Sethite view simply because then you can’t make up a whole new false doctrine.]

Far beyond simply a misunderstanding of the forthright presentation of the text, the “Sethite” view also obscures apprehension of the prophetic Scriptures.

Post-Flood Occurrences

Regarding the Nephilim, Genesis 6:4 also includes the haunting phrase, “…and also after that….” Apparently these strange events were not confined just to the period before the Flood.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  Nothing haunting about it, the fact is people turned wickedly evil again after the flood.]

We find that there seems to be some recurrence of those things which resulted in unusual “giants” appearing in subsequent periods later in the Old Testament narrative, specifically the giant-races of Canaan.    [Emphasis added]

There were a number of tribes such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, and Zamsummim, that were giants.1 The kingdom of Og, the King of Bashan, was the “land of the giants.”2 Later, we also find Arba,3 Anak, and his seven sons (the “Anakim”) also as giants, along with the famed Goliath4 and his four brothers.5    

[DTW note:  Unusual giants, yes, but not demonic Nephilim.  None of the verses state that the tribes of Rephaim, Emim, Horim and Zamsummin were demonic Nephilim.  King Og was a giant, Arba was a giant, Anak and his seven sons were also Giants and so was Goliath and his 4 brothers.  What is a giant?  A very big person.  Not a demonic offspring.  Moses was big enough himself that he could smite them and cast giants out of their own land.  (Joshua 13:12)  “All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.”]

When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan had over 400 years to plant his “mine field” of Nephilim!6

[DTW note:  Again he is surmising and reading into the scripture what is NOT THERE.

  • Genesis 15:13;  13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years

All this means is that the Israelites are going a land that belongs to them, but they will for 400 hundred years have to serve the current inhabitants of the land.  So they will be a stranger in their own land.  No where does it say anything about Nephilim.]

When Moses sent his twelve spies to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land.7 (The term used was Nephilim.) Their fear of those terrifying creatures resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years.

[DTW note:   No the term Nephilim was NOT USED.  My goodness.  Lets have a look at the verse.

Below we are looking at the KJV 1611 translation and not some other funky version like Chuck Misslers Blue letter bible which puts in words that should not be there.

  • Numbers 13:33  “And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

The name Anak is derived from the son of Arba who was a great man among the Arabians (Jos 15:14) who possibly got his title because he used to wear a chain or splendid collar around his neck.    The word “giant” here in the above scripture actually refers to STATURE ( See Genesis 6:4).  The Anakims were more than likely a very distinguished family, or a chosen group of warriors, selected for their extraordinary size.

When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites.  “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.]

When Joshua and the nation Israel later entered the land of Canaan, they were instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of certain tribes.8 That strikes us as disturbingly severe. It would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there again was a “gene pool problem.”   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No, it’s not a ‘gene pool problem’, but a ‘wickedness of mankind problem‘.  The Canaanites were idolaters of the worst kind, enslaved to the most horrible sins.  God had enough; that the righteous judgment of God might sweep them away by the sword, this included famines and pestilences. There was however mercy shown, that while judgment was being employed by sword as punishment against one place, time was afforded for others at other places to repent.  Do you think God would offer demonic offspring time to repent? A gene-pool that has ‘lost it’s soul‘ through demonic intercourse time to repent?   No.  Because this gene pool/demonic offspring story is a load of nonsense. ]

These Rephaim, Nephilim, and others seem to have been established as an advance guard to obstruct Israel’s possession of the Promised Land. Was this also a stratagem of Satan?   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No Chuck Missler, you have an active imagination.  No demonic beings, no obstruction, just wicked people that had the opportunity to repent, other wise God would smite them down with the sword, which he did because of their wicked ways.]

The Days of Noah

Perhaps the most direct prophetic reference involving these things was the peculiar warning of our Lord Jesus Himself:  And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.   [Emphasis added]

Luke 17:26

What does that mean? He also warned:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.    [Emphasis added]

Luke 21:25,26 (emphasis added)

(The late Walter Martin loved to include a “flying saucer” gesture with his hand when quoting this verse!)

Is it possible that the UFOs – and their occupants – are part of an end-time scenario?

[DTW note:  Lets have a look at that verse properly shall we.

  • Luke 21:25-26 – Amplified Bible (AMP)  25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,   26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

Chuck Missler mis-reads the verse.  If we look at the Amplified bible it helps us explain it better. Men are fearful and apprehensive and their expectation is dread because they do not know what kinds of things going to come onto the world.  And ‘things’ in this verse is not ‘aliens or demons’.  There is a semicolon in the verse, and after this semicolon it tells us these things are.  The powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.]

The Miry Clay of Daniel 2

The famous dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel Chapter 2 appears to lay out all of Gentile history until God ultimately intervenes and sets up His own kingdom.

The various metals which make up the image in the dream are well known to serious students of prophecy.9> Even our common expression, “the idol has feet of clay,” comes to us from this classic passage.

But what is represented by the “miry clay” in this image? It seems to be strangely mixed-but not completely-with the iron in the dream. The term “miry clay” refers to clay made from dust,10 a Biblical idiom which suggests death.11 )

When Daniel interprets this for us he makes an especially provocative allusion in verse 43:

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.    [Emphasis added]

Daniel 2:43

As he switches to a personal pronoun, they, “shall mingle themselves with the seed of men…”  This is extremely suggestive when viewed in light of the warning of our Lord in Luke 17:26, ostensibly directing us to look more closely at Genesis 6.

Just what (or who) are “mingling with the seed of men?” These would seem to refer to some beings who are not the seed of men themselves!

Could this be a hint of a return to the mischief of Genesis 6? It staggers the mind to consider the potential significance of Daniel’s passage and its implications for the future global governance.

Are these “aliens” so prolific that they constitute a political constituency?

Will there be UFO incidents as part of a carefully orchestrated program to lead us toward a political agenda? Or has it started already? Are the UFOs, and the increasingly widespread abductions, part of the preparations for this scenario?

[DTW note:  No Mr Missler.  Again you twist scripture to suit your own purposes.  Let’s look at this verse properly shall we…

  • Daniel 2:43  Amplified Bible (AMP)  43 And as you saw the iron mixed with miry and earthen clay, so they shall mingle themselves in the seed of men [in marriage bonds]; but they will not hold together [for two such elements or ideologies can never harmonize], even as iron does not mingle itself with clay.

The last re-establishment of the Roman Empire is described as iron mixed with miry clay, which is nothing but brittle pottery.  This speaks of the attempted UNION between imperialism and democracy.  In the end this Roman Empire so easily shattered when Jesus Christ returns.]

UFO Abductions?

There seems to be a growing concern within the psychiatric community from the strange (and far too frequent) reports from people who claim to have been “abducted” by the occupants of UFOs. These reports are too bizarre to accept, and yet too frequent-and consistent-to ignore. What is particularly disturbing is the estimate from some national polls that as much as 3% of the population may be involved!

Perhaps the most well-known researcher in this area is Dr. John E. Mack, who is professor of psychiatry at The Cambridge Hospital, Harvard Medical School. A contributor to over 150 articles in professional (peer-reviewed) journals and a former Pulitzer Prize winner, he certainly appears to have impressive credentials.

He has been involved in almost a hundred of these cases personally, and has shocked the professional community by declaring that he believes these beings may be real and that they appear to have an agenda to develop a hybrid race!12

At a professional conference on abductions at M.I.T., Dr. Mack asked the provocative question, “If what these abductees are saying is happening to them isn’t happening, then what is?”13

Could all this involve a return to the strange events of “the Days of Noah?”

[DTW note:  Demons exist and people who have had these abduction experiences have experienced, just that, an altered state of consciousness where they have come face to face with demonic entities who create a reality for them that seems so real.  The exact same can be said of someone who experiences a ‘trip to heaven’, they see, touch, taste and smell ‘heaven or hell’ but it’s not real.]

Can A Christian Be “Abducted?”

In our publication, The Return of the Nephilim, I ventured the opinion, based on demonology considerations, that a Christian cannot be abducted. In response, I have received several letters of rebuttal, and also an interesting phone call from a senior executive at Universal Studios who apparently has extensive background in this area.

He indicated that he had participated with Dr. John Mack in some of his sessions, as well as with other researchers, and declared that I was wrong. He suggested that I investigate the Andreasson affair.

The Andreasson case involved a spirit-filled Christian; however, the reports indicate that she accepted an invitation to participate.14 It still appears to me that a Christian cannot be abducted unwillingly.

This opens up the entire subject of demonology and is beyond our scope here. (Our book does include a “Checklist for Potential Abductees” for those who are concerned with this issue.)   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  NEVER.  A genuine Born Again Christian will NEVER be abducted, EVER.  Chuck Missler’s theology leaves little to be desired as he is a Dominionist, so I would not for one second believe him when he says the person in The Andreasson case was a genuine believer.]

Dr. Mark Eastman and I have just published a new book, “Alien Encounters.”

Which attempts to explore the Biblical implications of the increasing reports of UFOs and their occupants, and their potential prophetic significance.

It will prove to be the most controversial thing we have done and we truly request your prayers!  [Emphasis added]

source: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/22/


Jacob Prasch does not like to be questioned and he attacks in the most brutal of manner.  Where as I question a person’s doctrine, Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries (who support him) go for the jugular vein, attack you personally and threaten you.

Please read the following articles where I question Preasch doctrine, please read the comments BY Jacob Pracsh himself:  Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way,  Jacob Prasch the Railer,  Moriel Ministries and MIDRASHJacob Prasch – But By The Grace of God [those Calvinists] . . . Tell The Truth!


NOTES

  1.  Genesis 14:5; 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-12, 22.
  2. Deuteronomy 3:11, 13; Joshua 12:4;13:12.
  3. Joshua 14:15; 15:13; 21:11.
  4. 1 Samuel 17:4ff.
  5. 2 Samuel 21:16-22.
  6. Genesis 15:13-21.
  7. Numbers 13:33.
  8. 8. Joshua 6:21; 9:24; 10:28, 39; 11:24; Deut 2:34; 7:2, 3; 20:16-17; et al. Cf. 1 Sam 15:3, 8, 18, 19; Ps 137:8, 9.
  9. See our briefing package Iron Mixed With Clay (out of print – see An Empire Reborn?)for a complete discussion.
  10. Mire [Aramaic in the text] is from a root meaning to be swept away; thus, dust, dirt.
  11. Rephaim (giants) also translated “dead”: Ps 88:10; Prov 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isa 14:9; 26:14.
  12. John E. Mack, Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens, Ballantine Books, NY, 1994, p.411.
  13. C.D.B. Bryan, Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind: Alien Abduction, UFOs, and the Conference at M.I.T., Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1995, p.4.
  14. Jim Marrs, Alien Agenda, HarperCollins Publishers, New York, p.213-218.



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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Ian, you wrote:

“By the way…I don’t follow John Calvin…his ideas were in some respects not much better than those you single out here – he was not the perfect man – who is?”

Does one need to be perfect to know the truth? What you are saying is, “John Calvin wasn’t perfect. So, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to spread his heresies like wildfire.” What does God say?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:1-5)Ian,

Ian

Deborah
I am not accusing you personally of anything. You misunderstand me.

…and I am NOT saying whay you ascribe to me – “What you are saying is, “John Calvin wasn’t perfect. So, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to spread his heresies like wildfire.”
I am not saying that – you are putting words in my mouth. Perhaps you should have asked me if I was saying that rather than assume it to be so.

It may well have been an error – assumption on my part to speak of John Calvin because I saw Calvinism in tha tabs at the top, and thought that you folk were of that persuasion. If I assumed wrongly I am sorry. I should have exaimned your site a bit more. It was remiss of me. please forgive me if I was in error.

If I am wrong in assuming your position to be calvinistic after the ilks of John C, I retract my statement.

Ian

Tom
you ask ….”Ian, what do you mean by “Why would they (those who have fallen from faith) still be spoken of as sons of God?” Where does it say unbelievers are sons of God? ”

If you say that the ‘sons of God’ phrase in Genesis 6 refers to men of faith and that is how many people interpret that phrase – as men of faith; – and the context implies males and not females, it was males who took to themselves daughters and offspring resulted, – then according to that view, it has to be men of faith who took daughters of men ( Cain) according to that particular view which I do not agree with. (‘sons of God’ can only be born a second time since Christ has come. )

I understand full well Tom that children of the living God through faith in Jesus Christ are all heirs of the kingdom of God – joint heirs with Christ – male believers and female believers. In Christ as far as relationship with Father God goes , there is neither male or female.
But we are talking pre Christ – pre Flood.

And so, with respect to the identity of Gen 6 “sons of God” which is mentioned twice, I am asking …
if the sons of God were men of faith – (if that is what you folk are teaching), then, by mixing with, intermarrying with ungodly daughters, they too would have gone back to ungodliness, which means that they would have ‘left the faith’.

Perhaps I will refer to James 5 –
Jas 5:19 If anyone among you goes astray from the truth, brothers, and anyone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 know that the one turning a sinner from the error of his way will save the soul from death, and will hide a multitude of sins.
Here James is speaking about a brother (sister) in Christ who goes back into sin. And in doing so, James calls that one – the brother (sister) in Christ who has turned back- gone away form Christ – a “sinner”. Sinners are not saints. You can’t mix darkness and light.

But James goes on to say that if another brother (sister) in Christ turns that sinner back to Christ, then he has saved rescued that soul from death (spiritual death).

The old testament says similar things – eg Ezekiel 33
So the principle I think would have to apply to anyone in the Genesis 6 period. In the OT it was much more severe for those who disobeyed God, who rebelled against His word.

….can you see now what I was trying to say? I hope so.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hi Ian. You wrote:

“But James goes on to say that if another brother (sister) in Christ turns that sinner back to Christ, then he has saved rescued that soul from death (spiritual death).”

NO, that is not what James is saying. Do you realize what you are saying? Let me break is down for you.

1) Jesus is our only Saviour but He is not able to keep us saved (John 10:28-30 is a lie).
2) Therefore, those who err from the truth (this is what James says and not “fall away from the faith”), lose their salvation and slip away from eternal spiritual life into eternal spiritual death
3) But, never fear when other sinners are near, because, where Jesus failed to keep them saved, the other sinners are able to bring them back from eternal spiritual death with a single prayer.

I will answer the rest of your comment as soon as you repent of what you suggested here.

. . . can you see now what I am trying to say? I hope so. The Nephilim doctrine is “to err from the truth” (James 5:20), by the way.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hi Ian

What then did you mean by “Calvin is not perfect.”

Ian

Tom
first off; when I said Calvin was not perfect, that is what I meant – not perfect.
The following site points this out

But John has gone and the matter is with the Lord.
…..
Do you believe in “once saved always saved”? I do, but not in the common way it is used.

Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. The Lord Jesus who is my Shepherd is also my Light and my Salvation – Psalm 27:1 I believe that.
He Himself is our Saviour. I believe that.
Jesus (John 15) tells us that we are to abide in the vine – in Him, and in His word. Jesus makes it plain that those who do not so abide will be cut off and wither and die and be burned.

Many disciples turned back from following Jesus, and He asked His veru close disciples (John 6) “Will you also go away?” They had a choice. The others WERE disciples of Jesus but they did not continue in His word – they chose not to continue. They could have, but did not.

….as to my comments re James:
James speaks about a brother restoring a brother who has turned away from the truth. James calls that brother who turns away a sinner. He does not call the one who turns him back a sinner.
I am not saying as you are insist that I am, that “other sinners are able to bring them back …”
James does not say another sinner can turn the ‘sinner’ back – and neither do I. It is you who has written those words.

Perhaps you are forgetting that those who are joined to Christ by faith in Him are members of His body. And as such are operating on earth as His body and are able by His Holy Spirit to help a brother or sister this way or that way – and such works are seen as Christ Himself doing it.
This is why Christ has set in the assembly teachers, etc, to be His hands and feet and ears and eyes and mouth on earth to instruct others in His stead. This is the plain meaning of being a member of His body.

Jesus said as much as you have done it to one of the least of these you have done it to Me. We are brought into the Kingdom of God, and while still in clay vessels of the Master may be used in His hands. When Jesus worked on earth doing His Father’s will it was the Father who was working. When He spoke the words of His Father, it was the Father speaking.
On the other hand – Jesus said of the Jews that they were going about to kill Him, they were doing the works of their father the devil – and thus were instruments of evil in his hand. The devil was working through them.
So when a brother who HASN’T gone back from following Jesus turns one who has gone back – it is the Lord Himself working through that one, otherwise he can do nothing.

Those who repent and follow Jesus Christ having received Him as the Scripture says, – even Him who is everlasting Life – John 14:6; 1 John 1:2; 5:20, receive His life, and enter into His salvation. They have been born from above. They are joined with Christ.
But as such we do not loose our capacity to make decisions. God has not stripped us of the power of choice – even to do evil. We will be tempted by the Tempter till we die. We must choose.- persevere in spite of it.
Yet God will make a way for us to escape so that we can endure – resist the temptation. But we have to resist the temptation by our own volition depending on the power and grace of God to do so.

We can continue to follow after Christ Jesus – continue in doing His commands by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is a day by day walk.
Jesus told us not just to ‘hear’ but to do. Those who DO the will of His Father in Heaven are the family of Jesus – Matt 12:50

We are still able to sin – because we have not yet received a glorified body like Christ’s. We are still able to go back into sin. We are still able to entertain an evil heart of unbelief-
“Watch, brothers, lest perhaps there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief in withdrawing from the living God.” Heb 3:12. This is not a singular warning; there are many.

If it was impossible for someone to draw away from the Living God, then the dozens of warnings to believers would never have needed to be said. They would be meaningless; Jesus did not waste His words, neither did His apostles as they wrote Scripture.
This does not in any way negate the power of Jesus Christ to keep us;- but it is dependent on our continuing to walk humbly with Jesus. We are not robots Tom.

Shall we continue or go back into sin that the grace of God may abound – NO. Rom 6.

Jesus Christ is the only Saviour for mankind. He has all power and authority both in Heaven and on earth.
He is able to save to the uttermost them who draw near to God by Him, seeing He ever lives to intercede for them Hebrews 7:25
He says IF you continue in My words THEN are you My disciples indeed and the truth will set you free. “Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in Him, If you continue in My Word, you are truly My disciples.
And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31, 32
The lasting and complete freedom comes through continuing with Jesus in His word. That is our choice. God does not take away our ability to choose contrary things.

Jesus said – Whosoever believes – continues to believe, day in and day out till they breathe their last breath on earth, will has everlasting life.
The question is not the ability or power of Jesus to keep – the question is about our willingness to continue in the truth, in the faith, in Jesus our Salvation. But Jesus does not override our own volitional power. He loves us too much to do that.

Paul warns the churches that those brothers who go back to the Law make the grace of God of no effect. In 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5, Paul in talking to the saints, makes it very clear that those who are called thieves etc shall not inherit the kingdom of God. He is pleading with them not to go that path.
The Scriptures are full of warnings to the godly, the saints in Christ. It was so in the old testament; it is so in the new. Nothing is to be taken for granted.
Though we are joined to Christ in our spirit, we are individuals who can still operate in the flesh and if we do not put to death the works of flesh by the Holy Spirit’s enabling, then we are going to die (Rom 8)
– except that God moves in His tender mercies and longsuffering to bring us back to Himself while we yet live, even through the prayers and petitions of the saints the members of Christ’s own body, and with love to draw such a one back. Nothing is too hard for the Lord.

The question is not about God’s ability but our conscious daily surrender to Him.
James says – “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” Jam 1:12.

If you love Me – keep My commands – Jesus. Grace is given to overcome sin.

Ian

On Jacob Prasch
I have heard a number of his messages in past years, and I have to say that JP did not speak about ‘Nephilim’ in all his sermons – teachings. Yes he has spoken on it, but to say on everyone?- uh uh. Same thing with his printed teachings – not all – not even most brothers and sisters.

On Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35
“In the resurrection”…”like the angels in Heaven”

Jesus is talking about the Holy state of believers and the holy state of angels. Not the unholy state of those who followed Lucifer.
Jesus is NOT saying in your favourite text, that on earth the saints can not marry nor are not given in marriage.
Your constant question Tom is – Are you calling Jesus a liar?
Jesus is not referring to earth but to Heaven brothers and sisters. You are accusing falsely on this point. Because Jesus does not address the issue of sons of God or nephilim of Gen 6 in Matthew 22:23-32, you are making false assumptions and judging others wrongly because they will not accept your false assumption.
You may be right on every other point – but you are not without error my brother Tom.

In Luke he says that the children of this world marry and are given in marriage.

Whether unholy angels can do this or that on eartth is not spoken about by Jesus.
Please don’t accuse everybody about lying, simply because they do not agree with your interpretation and your imposing a view on something that Jesus does not specifically talk about.

If you were simply addressing the issue of whether saints can marry in Heaven – you have a sound case. How so? Because Jesus was addressing that question by the Sadducees. The Sadduscees were not wanting to to about fallen angels or nephilim. Jesus was not addressing in the text what you allege He is doing.

It sounds to me like you are reading into the Mtthew 22 32- 32 text, which thing you rebuke others of doing. You won’t ifind any reference to what goes on – upon earth except in Luke’s version.

Peace to all those who love the Lord Jesus in truth.

Ian

Deborah
there are two Hebrew word I can find translated as stature and they both have the meaning of physical height and breadth
Numbers 13;32

Num 13:32 And they brought upH3318 an evil reportH1681 of the landH776 whichH834 they had searchedH8446 untoH413 the childrenH1121 of Israel,H3478 saying,H559 The land,H776 through whichH834 we have goneH5674 to searchH8446 it, is a landH776 thatH1931 eateth upH398 the inhabitantsH3427 thereof; and allH3605 the peopleH5971 thatH834 we sawH7200 inH8432 it are menH376 of a great stature.H4060

4060 – middâh; mid-daw’; Feminine of H4055; properly extension, that is, height or breadth; also a measure (including its standard); hence a portion (as measured) or a vestment; specifically tribute (as measured): – garment, measure (-ing, meteyard, piece, size, (great) stature, tribute, wide.

………………
1Sa 16:7 But the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Samuel,H8050 LookH5027 notH408 onH413 his countenance,H4758 or onH413 the heightH1364 of his stature;H6967 becauseH3588 I have refusedH3988 him: forH3588 the LORD seeth notH3808 asH834 manH120 seeth;H7200 forH3588 manH120 lookethH7200 on the outward appearance,H5869 but the LORDH3068 lookethH7200 on the heart.H3824

6967 – qômâh; ko-maw’; From H6965; height: – X along, height, high, stature, tall.

peace

Tom (Discerning the World)

Hi Ian. You wrote:

“Tom
first off; when I said Calvin was not perfect, that is what I meant – not perfect.
The following site points this out

But John has gone and the matter is with the Lord.”

Of course we are not perfect. None of us are. But that doesn’t give us the leeway to spread imperfect doctrine. Why? Because “every word of God is pure (perfect)” (Proverbs 30:5) and we dare not make it imperfect just because we are imperfect. Those who make it imperfect (like John Calvin) are guilty of the following:

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Gal 1:8-10)

You wrote:

….as to my comments re James:
James speaks about a brother restoring a brother who has turned away from the truth. James calls that brother who turns away a sinner. He does not call the one who turns him back a sinner.
I am not saying as you are insist that I am, that “other sinners are able to bring them back …”
James does not say another sinner can turn the ‘sinner’ back – and neither do I. It is you who has written those words.

Of course you will deny what you said, and fail to answer the rest of the question whether Jesus is able to keep sinners saved or not. (John 10:27-30). Is He or is He not? Please answer the question. First you deny you said it and then go into a long discussion of how sinners are in Christ and therefore quite capable of bringing ex-Christians who have fallen from the faith back from spiritual death. I think it’s time for you to stop doing an egg dance and tell us what you mean by “common” and “uncommon.” None of the passages you discussed say that saints can lose their salvation. According to you our daily and conscious surrender to God annuls God’s ability to keep us saved. Can you prove to me that you daily and consciously live a life of perfect (100%) surrender to God? If not, then you have annulled, or at least hampered, God’s ability to keep us saved. He is able to keep us saved when we daily and consciously surrender to Him – kind of thing. That, my dear friend is a works-based salvation and already a common way of falling away from the faith

Tom (Discerning the World)

Ian,

I’m sorry but I don’t have time to waste. Goodbye. Your arguments are consistently inconsistent.

Ian

Tom, are you perfect in all your teaching?

Tom (Discerning the World)

Hi Ian,

No, I am not and that is why you should test what I am saying or writing in the light of God’s Word. However, we are also exhorted to use our minds in a sober and biblical way, and to this day your ramblings on about the Nephilim has not even been close to being rational, let alone your uncommon belief in salvific certainty. As I said, you are wasting my time.

Please ponder these questions.

1) Do you believe that God’s Word is perfect? Should you not, then you ought to examine yourself to see whether you are really saved. However, if you do you should be able to answer the next question.
2) Is the Holy Spirit the spirit of Truth? Should you deny that He is, then you should examine yourself whether you are really saved. If you do, you should be able to answer the next question.
3) Can an imperfect saint know the whole truth? Should you deny this you are saying that Jesus is a liar (There’s that naughty sentence again). Well, if you don’t then you actually are accusing Jesus of lies, because He said, “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13).

It proves that an imperfect saint’s doctrines and teaching can and must be perfect. Is yours? I doubt it, because if you had you would never had commented anything like this –

“On Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35
“In the resurrection”…”like the angels in Heaven”

Jesus is talking about the Holy state of believers and the holy state of angels. Not the unholy state of those who followed Lucifer.
Jesus is NOT saying in your favourite text, that on earth the saints can not marry nor are not given in marriage.
Your constant question Tom is – Are you calling Jesus a liar?
Jesus is not referring to earth but to Heaven brothers and sisters. You are accusing falsely on this point. Because Jesus does not address the issue of sons of God or nephilim of Gen 6 in Matthew 22:23-32, you are making false assumptions and judging others wrongly because they will not accept your false assumption.
You may be right on every other point – but you are not without error my brother Tom.

In Luke he says that the children of this world marry and are given in marriage.

Whether unholy angels can do this or that on eartth is not spoken about by Jesus.
Please don’t accuse everybody about lying, simply because they do not agree with your interpretation and your imposing a view on something that Jesus does not specifically talk about.

If you were simply addressing the issue of whether saints can marry in Heaven – you have a sound case. How so? Because Jesus was addressing that question by the Sadducees. The Sadduscees were not wanting to to about fallen angels or nephilim. Jesus was not addressing in the text what you allege He is doing.

It sounds to me like you are reading into the Matthew 22 32- 32 text, which thing you rebuke others of doing. You won’t find any reference to what goes on – upon earth except in Luke’s version.”

Do you really think I am so stupid to think that Jesus was saying “that on earth the saints can not marry nor given in marriage.” Oh, I’m sorry in my conscious 60 or more years of my life on earth, I must admit that I have never, never seen anyone getting married because Jesus said humans of flesh and blood cannot marry or are not given in marriage on earth. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Hadn’t you done so, I would never have known that Jesus said humans never get married nor are given in marriage on earth. Think of all the silly dads who had given their daughters in marriage on a beautiful sunny day on earth who must have been totally oblivious of the fact that humans do not marry on earth.

And, thanks also for reminding me that He was not speaking of those who followed Satan. Your revelations are a real blessing to me. I never knew that. Let’s assume He did. Would that have changed matters? Oh, I see, if He had referred to them, He would have used a classic example of angels who indeed do get married and are given in marriage on earth because the fallen angels who are now bound in Tartarus know how to change their spiritual forms into humans with genitals and the lot so that they may marry and have gigantic kiddies with earthly women. Wow, a miracle!!!!

Oh, and I also never knew that Jesus never used the word in Matthew 22:23-32. But he does use the term “marriage” (“took them wives”) doesn’t He? So, I can easily use Matthew 22:30 to prove that angels do not marry or are given in marriage in heaven and therefore easily disprove the Nephilim doctrine.

Your semantics to say “Jesus never said this or that in this or that verse” is a wobbly kind of hermeneutics when it is glaringly obvious that He does not say this or that. That’s why your statement “Whether holy angels can do this or that on earth is not spoken about by Jesus” is so bizarre. What they cannot do in heaven, they obviously cannot do on earth. Spirit beings who appear in the form of men on earth cannot get married – PERIOD! To have been able to get married they would have had to be changed from spirit beings to beings of flesh and blood like humans because only two beings of the same substance (flesh and blood) can become one flesh in marriage. Don’t you know that? Let’s assume they did become flesh and blood in order to get married, wouldn’t that have made a sham of Jesus Christ’s incarnation, in the sense of Him not being the first Person in heaven to have become flesh and blood like us? You see, that’s what your infamous Nephilim doctrine is doing. It is demeaning, vilifying, and making a mockery of Jesus Christ’s unique incarnation and, I may add, the Gospel of redemption, and therefore must be rejected with the contempt it deserves. Stop beating around the bush to defend a horrendous doctrine like the Nephilim and repent of your evil.

Ian

Deborah
I ahve been away but have attempted twice to post a reply and it comes up as a firewall block – securi with your web site details – so don’t know what is going on. and this is not the first time either

Ian

can’t seem to post a reply – a securi firewall blockage comes up

Ian

[DELETED by DTW – Hi Ian, sent Sucuri and email to see why you are being blocked,  :investigate: sent you email confirming this as well, will come back to you asap with news]

Ian

the following is only a part (the end paragraph) of what I am wanting to post, so here goes.

“Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit is come He will guide you into all truth. Yes, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. But as to how quickly He guides us into all truth, and how readily we receive His truth as it is in Jesus, is another matter. The guiding is a process that may take all our lifetime. Once again the problem is not with God, but with us. Jesus said Himself that He had many things to tell His disciples but that they were not ready to receive it all then. And while it is possible that they got a full revelation of all truth on the day of Pentecost, it is more likely that the Holy Spirit revealed things to them little by little, line upon line. And so it is with us.

Tom (Discerning the World)

Indeed, what you say is in some sense true. However, whenever someone refuses to listen to what the apostles teach in the Word of God, he/she is bound for big problems.

“We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6)”

The disciples failed to understand some of the things Jesus taught because their hearts were hardened. Their concern was for their own preeminence in the Kingdom of God, so they saw no need for Jesus’ death on the cross. Sorrow over his departure, dismay over the prophecy of a traitor among them, together with a prediction over their own desertion, made them insensitive to more spiritual truths. However, when the Spirit of Truth would come after Jesus Christ Ascension, He would lead them in all truth. Please learn to make a distinction between pre- and post Pentecost. It is of the utmost importance. And so it is not with us as it was with the apostles before Pentecost. Bear that in mind, please.

LT

Firstly, I agree with this article completely about Gen 6. It’s an end time Satanic Delusion. Prepping people to accept the coming Anti-Christ.

Here is something I don’t agree with. Job 1 and 2. The “sons of God” in these two verses.

Job 1:1-6.
Verse 2 says “And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.”
Verse 3 “and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.”

Now Job was a wealthy man, had a very great household. Many servants. Many people lived in his household. Now, this term “men of the east”, the word “men” in Hebrew is “son”, (ben). The Hebrew words for “men”, referring to just men is not the same here as other places. This literally translate “son of the east”. So we see a distinction being made here. These “sons of the east” are a remnant, or a specific group of men living in the east, that follow God. Job was a part of these men. But it says “so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.” So we can understand that many men were following God at this time in the east. THESE “men of the east” ARE the “sons of God” in Job 1:6

Job 1:4 “And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.”
So each son has a house, and have a feast every one his day. Go back to verse 2, “seven sons”, verse 4 “every one his day”. This equates to a 7 day feast. Sound familiar? Job and his men and sons were keeping feast days unto the Lord. Why is this important? Well, what would children of God do when keeping feast days?

Deuteronomy 16:15 “Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.”

Job was keeping these feast days! And what did all the males do during these feast days? Next verse.

Deuteronomy 16:16 “Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:”

So what did all the males have to do during the feast days? “Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God”.

Now to Job 1:6 “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.”

So where are “fallen angels” at here? We KNOW that this took place during the time that Job and his family were feasting. Chapter one in the book of Job has absolutely NOTHING to do with “fallen angels”.

These “sons of God” are talking about Job 1:2 “seven sons”, Job 1:3 “men (sons) of the east”. THESE ARE the “sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD”.

Now since Satan came among them, people are easily deceived into believing that this happened in heaven, but the scriptures never say this. Even in our daily prayer Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Look at

Joshua 24:1 “And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God.”

So should we assume that Joshua and his men went to heaven and Gods throne to present themselves?? Of course not. It means they all got together in one place in the spirit of God to worship.

Job 2:1 “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.”

Now at this point, Job has lost his sons and his daughters. But he still had servants and still were other men in the land, the men (sons) of the east. And even though Job had lost all his sons and daughters, Job 1:22says, “In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.” So when we get to Job 2:1, this is another time when “sons of God”, (men of the east), came to present themselves before the LORD. And again, this did NOT happen in the heavenly realm…

Job 2:2 “And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” This never mentions “heaven” as to where this takes place. God can talk to Satan or anyone. anywhere! No limits to God. Remember Adam in the garden?
Genesis 3:9-10 “And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
Adam wasn’t in heaven. He was on earth. God doesn’t have to be limited to talking to Satan in heaven. Job 2:1 is NOT talking about any angels. Even worse, it’s not even REMOTELY talking about “fallen” angels.

So the “sons of God” in Job 1 and 2, much like Gen 6, is NOT talking about “fallen angels”.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Thanks LT for your excellent comment. I agree with you 100%. You may want to read this: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2017/05/24/nephilim-part-2/

Patrick Farrington

You are a lie. And your father is the devil! God forbid the angels on what they did! They directly disobeyed God on what they did. Regardless, they were in disobedience and were deserving of death. Just as Adam & Eve brought death through sin. wow. lies…Straight fro the devil your father!!

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