Angus Buchan’s Holy Ghost Chaos or…

Werner says:

There is no reason to believe that the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is any different from that mentioned in the book of Acts. In both places the tongues involved speaking in earthly languages that one had never learned. The same Greek word “glossa” is used for both. This word refers to the tongue itself (Mk. 7:33) or to a language spoken by the tongue.

Chris De Wet says:

URGENT!!!! The ICEJ has proven to be an organization whereby no pro-active evangelisation to the Jews are permitted. Instead they are instructed to wait until a Jew asks them questions regarding the Messiah. This however is the “Political correct” thing to do according to them, however when one considers the Scriptures the Lord Jesus, and all the apostles and disciples ministry to the Jews was straight forward, offensive, pro-active and mostly replied with violence and aggression.

Deborah, you stated: Is Angus Buchan implying that his meeting was ANOTHER Pentecost? Signalling thebeginning of ANOTHER church Age? Impossible.] I would sya that this is the whole agenda – the beginning of ANOTHER church age known by NAR the NEW WORLD ORDER church.

I am including a letter which I wrote to Michael Utterbeck of the ICEJ quite some years ago. In this letter you will see that the ICEJ is in agreement with the prosperity teachers as well as Rome.

Angus has become part of this and that is very sad indeed.

This letter was written to the director of the ICEJ after I had tried to get clarity in the ICEJ directly from him. The incidences mentioned in this letter should be a clear indication of how these people think and what they do.

Here is the letter:
—————–

Dear Mr. Michael Utterback,

I have received correspondence from the International Christian Embassy (ICEJ) for some time now. I have also received the Bridges for Peace newsletters and teachings and have found some very interesting teachings in the Bridges For Peace articles, where the Jewish culture is used to explain the meaning of the New Testament better to the Christian.

My prayers have always been to support the Jewish people in every possible way, because the Scriptures do command us to do so. Just like so many others, I have an inherent burden towards the people of Israel.

I also feel that if it was not for the Jews, we would not have had the Scriptures to lead us to salvation and it is because of this that we have to return this same favor, to the nation of Israel.

I do not profess to be one of the “know it alls” I have much to learn but have also learnt throughout the years that it is very important to discern whom one listens to, supports and what the agenda of the organization or person is one listens to and supports. I cannot just accept allegations made against people and organizations without looking into the matter myself. There are always two sides to a story. This is the same route I intended following with the ICEJ and Bridges For Peace.

I have sent a couple of e-mails to Bridges For Peace as well as to the representatives of the ICEJ concerning documentation received by me, stating that the ICEJ welcomed the Pope to Jerusalem as well as that the ICEJ was asked to agree on not preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the Jewish people they are bringing back to Israel. Unfortunately no one has returned a response to me.

With your visit to South Africa and in particular to Bloemfontein, I attended the campaign, where your aim was to raise funds for the purpose of supporting the beloved people of God, Israel.

I was pleased to hear that you said that the Catholics were involved in the extermination of 6 million Jews and that they basically supported Hitler and the Nazi regime, in the inhalation of God’s people. I was even more pleased to hear that your organization condemns Islam and their purpose, to wipe the Jews from the face of the earth, as so often proclaimed by the Muslim leaders and followers as promoted by the Quaran itself.

It was in this light that I prayerfully considered speaking to you, after the assembly in Bloemfontein. I had to make sure what the ICEJ stands for, as I know two of families in Bloemfontein who are very dear friends of mine, who support your organization as well and only had good reports of your activities.

I am sure you would recall the conversation we had, where I asked you if the ICEJ had extended an invitation to Pope John Paul 11, to visit Jerusalem. Your reply was that you are on the board of directors and a very important decision maker in matters like these, whereupon you emphatically stated that the ICEJ never invited the Pope to Jerusalem and that it was just a campaign, to blacklist your organization.

On further investigation I was satisfied that you did not invite the Pope to Israel, but welcomed him on his visit, which did not make much sense to me but became clear later on, as you will notice later on in this letter.

On my next question regarding the concern I had about preaching the gospel to the Jews in Israel, which to my understanding and information that I have, is that you are prohibited to do, your reply was a bit vague. Your first answer was that you minister to the Jews in various ways, and do not take the Gospel to them, but wait for them to ask you.

It was at this stage that Darren, a Jewish youngster, interrupted our conversation to speak with you. When he had finished speaking to you, I asked you again if you preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the Jews at which you became agitated with me. My conversation was never directed to Darren but to you alone. Unfortunately Darren got involved and rejected this Jesus I was speaking about, asking me how I would feel if someone came to preach Buddha to me. What this Jewish lad was saying is preaching Buddha to a Christian is the same as preaching Yeshua to the Jew. You agreed with this principle, by siding with Darren, thus putting Buddha on the same level as Yeshua.

Needless to say I mentioned to you that the New Testament implores us to preach the Good News of the Messiah to the Jews. The New Testament’s message in the Word of Christ as well as the message Paul gives is to make disciples of all nations, especially to the Jew first, yet you disagreed saying this is insensitive and without love.

Although it was unfortunate that Darren had to get involve at this stage, as I had no intention to speak to him, but to you alone, it however might have been a blessing in disguise, to reveal your true agenda. It was at this stage that it became obvious that you did not want to say anything about the Messiah, when Darren out rightly rejected Him and His teachings. After careful thought it became clear to me, that you compromised the message of Christ and even Christ Himself, to satisfy the remark he made on Buddha, thus making it clear that you do not bring the Gospel of Jesus to the Jews.

It is because Darren said in your presence, that he does not believe in the Messiah or in the New Testament of the Christians and your refusal to say anything, that my immediate reaction was to try and explain in the difficult and short time the prophecies concerning Jesus in the Old Testament to him, which pointed to Yeshua, although I knew one would need much more time for this sort of thing. I also had to react because it was insulting statements made against, the Word of the only Redeemer and His very purpose of dying on the Cross. Keeping quiet would have shown either defeat or compromise to an anti- Christ statement as this.

Your support in this regard to Darren was a shock to me as I am sure you may have noticed. Not once did you defend the Gospel and our Messiah, but instead contributed to the statements made by Darren, by saying that it was the Christians who killed the Jews, to which I answered no; it was the Catholics (The Vatican to be more specific in working with Hitler), to which you replied Martin Luther was an anti – Semitic Christian. Now no one needs to be a rocket scientist to figure out that Luther also had basic Catholic training and was subject to many ways of the Catholic doctrine, despite his thesis he presented. Instead of defending the Gospel of Christ, you rejected it, twisting an understanding into being and promoting the heresy that true Christians are murderers of Jews.

Your accusation towards me; “You are only trying do prove something to yourself so that you may go out and tell others you had an opportunity to preach to a Jew” is naïve and totally unfounded. There are many people who can testify to the fact, that I do not pride myself in a personal capacity in preaching Jesus to anyone, after all it is a command as I see it, in the Scriptures.

If this is what the train of thought is in your mind, then it would appear as if you yourself seem to be boastful in mentioning your multiple international travels, speaking to 18000 Indonesians etc. etc. Maybe this is proves why the late Col. Orde Debbie resigned from the ICEJ, as he could not identify with the extravagance of the expenditures on international programs. Money, which were to be used for evangelizing the Jews.

Your attitude towards the prosperity teachers and your organization’s tolerance of the likes of Cerullo and Ulf Ekmann, as I have come to learn, suggests that you are no different to them. Your international travels are self-edifying and fleecing those who are unaware of your heretical purposes, nothing short of the true sign of being a Pharisee, exactly what you accused me of being, when I asked you two simple questions in an orderly manner.

Apart from refusing to defend the faith, you never mentioned Jesus Christ once in your address to the gathering. Are you scared of offending the Jews? Paul and Jesus and the rest of the disciples were in constantly persecuted for this type of thing. Christ’s love exceeds the love of all of us, yet He refused to compromise in any way. He came to do the will of His Father and commanded us to do the same.

What I find disturbing is that in a Country like South Africa and the rest of the world for that matter, most people seem to keep quiet when someone is on a podium and have a so called “stand” to say their say.” Yet when they are questioned on what they proclaim, (in my instance to gain more knowledge about your organization) they are without love, the Holy Spirit and insensitive, according to your accusation, directed at me. I found it foreign to Scriptures, where the Holy Spirit says in John 7:24 that we must judge with righteous judgment (A Command), that you became very antagonistic towards me when I asked you to address my concerns, regarding the ICEJ and its policies. As you told me who am I to judge, what you said. Even Paul in Acts 17 commended the Berean believers that they did not believe anything he said, but rather tested all Paul said against the Scriptures.

I was sincerely hoping you would understand that I had heard and was sent information regarding the ICEJ and that I wanted to discuss this with you. This had a two way purpose, the first being to discern whether the statements against your organization was relevant and secondly, whether those who supplied this information about your organization irrelevant.

Your comment, regarding the personal evangelizing of the Jews, was that the Holy Spirit does this work of salvation among the people of Israel and not man, is in total contradiction with Rom. 10:14 “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”

In Isaiah 60:16 it is also clear that it is the gentiles who should bring the gospel to the Jews, not excluding the message as in Rom.11either.

Paul and the Gospel of Christ say that the Holy Spirit will work through each believer to evangelize the nations of the world and the Jews the Good News. I do not take the workings and the amazing power of the Holy Spirit lightly and believe He is not to be limited by man, but nowhere do I get the message in the Scriptures (New Testament) that anyone mentions we should work without the Spirit and that we should not preach the Gospel because the Holy Spirit will do it on our behalf and not through us, only. Who did Jesus and Paul say must preach the Gospel, the Holy Spirit alone or the Holy Spirit through the believers? What I understand, is to explain the Scriptures prayerfully to the unbelieving and then the Holy Spirit will unlock their understanding. This action should be done in meekness and gentleness as I mentioned to you.

You might as well then pack up your endeavors to feed them materially and let the Holy Spirit take care of this as well. After all what is more important, to feed them the Gospel of everlasting life or to feed them materially? Where are your priorities?

Unfortunately you also became very personal and started accusing me of being without love and without the Holy Spirit in my heart. This is not surprising as this method is not uncommon to those who can’t prove a point from the Scriptures. As soon as a person attacks the personality of someone else, it is a sure sign that he has no more logical reasoning left to prove true and relevant facts from the Bible and that he has lost self-control, which is supposed to be one of the fruits of the Spirit.

I dare also to ask, who are you to have discerned my heart, by saying that I do not have the Holy Spirit in my heart, I thought God is the One Who is a discerner of hearts, unless you are God off course? The Lord in His Word says by their fruits you will know them, but how is it possible that within about two minutes, you judged sentenced and condemned me. Yet you say I am judgmental and without love. Aren’t you contradicting yourself?

During your speech you also mentioned that the Israeli nation will prosper again and pointed to the charismatic prospering preached in so many false religions as being “fine” With regard to the charismatic prospering which is a total heresy, I also do not see the Jewish nation prospering before the return of Christ as proclaimed by yourself. Only after the return of Christ, yes as it is prophesied in the Scriptures. Hence the Name Israel meaning “One who will rule as God” and the city of peace as described by the name Jerusalem. But to tell Israel that they are going to prosper in their land, while not mentioning the time of Jacob’s trouble, the prophecies regarding the fate of Israel in the last days as explained especially in the book of Daniel, Ezekiel 37 where it speaks of the restoration of Israel, (which started in 1917 and peaked in 1948), followed by a warning of Russia, Turkey, Eastern Europe, Iran and Libya attacking them, resulting in the warnings of Zechariah 12, 13 and 14, is dangerous and without love.

I don’t want the Jews to suffer any more and would encourage people to warn them about the pending danger, which is clearly not too far away.

Your mention, that Israel would experience a time of peace and safety is false and will only occur after the return of the Messiah when they will recognize Him Whom they have pierced. One of the ways in which to recognize Him is through the evangelizing Christians, which you shy away from.

According to the New Testament there will be a time of peace and safety in the last days. But it does not agree with the peace and safety you are promoting, without Jacobs’ trouble first. This is a peace and safety ushered in by the anti- Christ. The peace and safety of;
1Thess: 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Thess: 5:4: But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Thess: 5:5: Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Thess: 5:6: Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Thess: 5:7: For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Also the “peace and safety” of Dan. 8:25, Dan.9: 25 and Rev.6: 4. What peace and love are you really promoting, sir?

You are getting them ready to meet their doom, a time when the anti-Christ will rule the world. They will be deceived once more through the type of gospel you are teaching.

The Old Testament warns about false prophets promoting peace when there is no peace, as pointed out in Jer.6: 14, 8:11 and Ezek. 13:10.

Jer: 6:14: They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. Is this not what is happening now?

I know you said I must not mention Scriptures to you when we were in Bloemfontein, but I can’t resist, as this is the only source I rely on.

In Zechariah 13:8- 9 The Word of God warns everyone; “And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. “And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

I realize that Biblical prophecy is true and accurate and that God will use the gentiles to bring the Jews back to their land for the final conflict. But it seems that the very gentiles who are doing this are being deceived, in not issuing a warning as well as the Gospel of Christ with this action.

There is nothing nobody can do to change these prophecies, but there are those who realize that being part of a prophecy and doing the will of the Lord, is better than being an instrument of the evil, waiting to take place by not proclaiming the Gospel pro-actively.

As I see it, you are fulfilling prophecy in the Scriptures by assisting the Jews to get back into their land in the millions. The problem is that Jesus said no one will come to salvation without Him. Acts 4:12, 1Tim. 2:5 and obviously and equally important Isaiah 43:9 – 11. If they die without accepting the Messiah, what then? I am not able to pass judgment on whether God will save them or not, but according to the Scriptures, dying without the Savior is disastrous.

Again I stress, bringing the Jews back to Israel to get killed in a time of Jacob’s Trouble without giving them the Messiah, does not sound Scriptural enough to me, but rather as another Holocaust.

Nowhere do I find the love you so graciously promote. As with your connections with the Pope, and ecumenism, you are being deceived by the devil himself to wipe out what is left of Israel. Where is the love you accused me of not having? If you love the Jews, please preach Yeshua to them!

At one stage in your speech, you condemn the Vatican and the Catholics but on the other hand, welcome the Pope to Jerusalem! This is not surprising, because the Bible says that there will be those who oppose themselves.

The information I have with me regarding the ICEJ welcoming Pope John Paul II to Jerusalem which was downloaded from your website, does not agree with your statements concerning the Pope, unless you are ignorant of the agenda the Vatican and Islam has.

Please refer to the attachment I have included. In this article your organization states the following, and I quote; “We recognize that Pope John Paul II has done more to promote reconciliation with the Jewish faith than perhaps all previous popes combined, as his personal witness of the Holocaust kindled a life-long, genuine attachment to the Jews.”

If you look at the other attachment I have included, this same Pope kisses the Quran a book and religion that says kill the Jew and the Christian. Surely you are busy with another Jesus, another Gospel and another Spirit as Paul mentions in 2 Cor. 11:4 and you tolerate it!

As usual I do not expect to hear from you, as you must be quite furious by now, but I am always open to hear from you. This, the Scriptures also tell me: Gal: 4:16: Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Why did I write this to you? Because of what Paul says: Tit: 1:10: For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision:
Tim: 1:11: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

Coming with a message of peace and prosperity to gain funds, to help with the eventual gathering of the Jews in the exact small area where everyone of their enemies want them, making it easier to wipe them off the face of this planet forever and that without their Messiah. But fortunately God will intervene and will cause some to be saved. I would not like to give account to God for the cause you are busy with.

I am glad that I never financially supported you, and will be forwarding a request to be removed from all your mailing lists.

I am forwarding this letter to many other people and would encourage them to be like the Bereans in Acts 17, to discern before they act. Maybe rather to support the Jews for Jesus or an organization like Open Doors, naturally, with the proper discernment.

I thank God for those who put themselves on the line to minister the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the Jews and have the Holy Spirit use them for His service.

If your reaction in Bloemfontein was not to put Jesus in the same light, as Buddha and you were more accommodating at answering my concerns satisfactorily, the scales might have tipped in your favor, instead what I heard, saw and experienced was antagonism and unholy behavior, on your part.

I deem everything discussed in Bloemfontein with you and your reactions as being true as mentioned in this letter, my word is my word and my yea is my yea. I also have witnesses who were present me at the time.

Once again, my prayer is that God will open your eyes to the serous and extreme importance, of taking the right Gospel of our Lord and Savoir to the Jews, before bringing them to the time of Jacob’s Trouble, to make them understand the difference between His second coming and His first and not just being another instrument in the hands of Satan to have them killed without Jesus, which is exactly what the Popes and Islam has always done and will do again.

The fact that you “hide” the Jesus of the New Covenant brings to mind the following Scriptures;

Joh: 2:21: I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Joh: 2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Joh: 2:23: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Joh: 2:24: Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

In the love and total commitment of His Service, willing to be martyred for His Names sake.

Chris De Wet.

Carm says:

Sonja, we do know them: we know them by their fruit.

Of course we are commanded to judge:

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24)

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17)

So how do you propose we MARK and AVOID someone?

Estelle says:

Thanks for the good article Deborah. 🙂
I feel bad for these people (Angus etc.) that are so corrupted by their “extra-biblical” beliefs, but even more sad about the sheep following them. It’s as if they read the Bible in the way they want to (own interpretation)…believe what they want to believe, probably to feel better about themselves or something.

I also believe that suffering and sickness that a believer experience always have a greater purpose and fits in somewhere into God’s will for us. Seeking healing from a healer is like making an idol or god of that person, where people go to him or her instead of going to God in prayer and waiting patiently for God’s true healing.

God’s true healing for me doesn’t always mean physical healing, he heals our spirit and our sin to ultimately be with Him in heaven where there will be no more suffering or illness.
(Hope I make sense)

Deborah, do you still have that “blou rokkies” article I sent you long ago… I think the latter rain beliefs and those of the blou rokkies fits in to almost everything that Angus and the others believe.

Martin Horan says:

Yet again a brilliant reply, Deborah.

I’m getting to the point where I’m no longer amazed by them. I’m beginning to expect them and would be surprised if they weren’t spot on.

I have a friend who gave me a book by Angus Buchan. It depressed me that my friend was falling for that stuff. But he is constantly chasing after signs and wonders and refuses to read anything that contradicts his paradigms. So I was glad to read your incisive and Scriptural reply.

When I read Sonja’s first comment I was about to mention that there are only two kinds of criticism: Criticism that is true, which is right and therefore fair; and criticism that is untrue which is wrong and therefore unfair. I was also going to make a few other points after I’d first moved on to read your, Carm’s and Chris’ replies. They mostly dealt with things I’d planned to say.

(If either of of you gyts are looking in, thanks for your comments. I found them encouraging. They helped me to see I am not alone! I also feel this when I read Deborah’s articles.)

I’d just like to say to Chris: I too love the Jews and Israel and have been close enough to some that I’ve even had Jews trying to get me to convert to Judaism. I wanted to do so when younger, knowing what “Christians” had done to Jews throughout history. I couldn’t imagine any Jew wanting to become a Christian. The very thought appalled me as the worst kind of treachery. Please remember I had been educated as a Catholic! But I had also come over some vile anti-Semitic statements by Protestants too. So I can sympathize to an extent with Jews who see Jesus as their enemy though I know they are wrong. I had more or less the same idea when I was younger. I became a Christian when I found a group that was pro-Jewish and pro-Israel which I joined. Then I read the works of various writers who were pro-Jews and identified that anti-Semites were false Christians.

The sad thing is, this Christians Embassy group–I’ve never heard of them before–mean well but they are creating problems for Israel specifically and Jews generally. Thanks for letting me know about them. It’s something I can pray about. Antisemitism is spreading like wildfire these days and Jews everywhere do need to be encouraged and know that they have real friends.
John Hagee’s pretty much the same as these Christian Embassy folk. I know people who think Hagee’s wonderful. His love of Israel, unfortunately, makes him overlook the greater picture. He too does not think Jews are to be evangelized. Strange how the apostles disagreed with that idea.

Well, I just wanted to thank folk for their comments. It was all another education. Thanks.

Werner says:

Debs, please don’t apologize, was just dotting down how I understand it – but as always I’m open for correction..I’m but a frail man…Spiros Zodiathes, which I respect and hold dear to, says the tongues in Cor are ecstatic tongues according to the Greek (he is Greek and a Greek scholar as well), but yet not biblical..anyhow – keep fighting the good fight! In the whole of the bible as we are to read it and view it, we know what tongues are and are not.

Werner says:

Hi Chris, I guess or rather I know none of us have it spot-on, and those who say they do, well – we should run from them too.

Although simple, and it took me a few years to see, your observation is correct I believe, as for many things in Scripture – not all are explained, and we dare not make assumptions, rather explain the the unclear with the clear, and if there is no more clear, then we should not go into guess work.

God does not want us to know everything…for one, if tongues were soooo important, and sooo spiritual, then surely Jesus and the rest of the N.T would have said so, but the Scriptures are silent on this, for obvious reasons, it is man who have crafted sinister doctrines to promote their own selfish beliefs.

God bless

Steve says:

Regarding healing, and reading some of the comments…..

People came to Jesus for healing; Jesus said the following

John14:12-14
Mark9:23
Matthew8:19
Luke10:19

having experienced miraculous healing repeatedly in my own life, by God Himself, I urge people to stop coming up with reasons to turn christiantity into a theology or doctrines or studying greek etc etc…..the Lord has so much more for those who will believe Him; but ‘believing Him’ isnt hoping or being nice or anything like that…… this article is loaded with errors, and while I am sure there is a lot of good on this website, without the Spirit, it is all ‘dead letter’ – take care and stay safe

Steve

Michael says:

Steve wrote…”without the doing, miracles, healing, deliverances etc, what we have is an empty powerless gospel,”

Gosh…some people either miss the point completely or they take Jesus’s dying on the cross lightly? The Lord Jesus Christ came to save sinners from ETERNAL DEATH and give them a chance to repent and accept Him as Lord and Saviour and give them ETERNAL LIFE instead of spending eternity (thats for ever and ever} in a place called HELL. That’s not a nice place to be…being a condemned prisoner on death row must be paradise compared to this.

And you call it “empty and powerless”…salvation alone is enough to get excited about and if preached correctly turns the individual receiver inside out. Healings, signs and sensationalism and ear tickling is NOT the gospel.

That is the whole point!

Chris De Wet says:

Steve wrote: “I urge people to stop coming up with reasons to turn christiantity into a theology or doctrines or studying greek etc etc”

This is problematic because Christians are INSTRUCTED to study to find themselves approved by the very Word of God: 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Maybe Steve should try studying the Bible in order to better discern between what is good and what is evil – also Biblical: Heb 5:13- 14 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Concerning doctrines – the Bible teaches:

1. One should discern false doctrine an separate from it – 1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2. One should take heed of doctrine – 1Tim 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
3. Be nourished in good doctrine – 1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
4. Stay within correct doctrine – Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers
5. Plus- 2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
6. Obey doctrine – Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Follow the doctrine of the LORD not those who say ‘do not give heed to doctrine’ –
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

There are many more Scriptures teaching and instructing us to abide in the right doctrine and to avoid wrong doctrine.

Wrong doctrine will cause division from true believers -Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Concerning Theology:
“Theos” is the Greek word for God – hence understanding Greek.
Theology is to study everything about God derived from the Greek.

Maybe Steve should consider studying the Scriptures for him to find sound doctrine and to have a better understanding of theology????

christine says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Steve
Hi Deborah another thing what akes you so full of the spirit that you and your friends are the only right ones that you even have the decency to delete other peoples comments everbody has the right to their own opinion your people are spriritually so fat that you are earthly no good..

Estelle says:

Hi Christene,
maybe you should read this article, regarding the anointed / anointing…

————–

When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.” And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others were mocking and saying, “They are full of sweet wine.”

But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ GOD SAYS,
‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
AND THEY SHALL PROPHESY.
AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. For David says of Him,

‘I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;
FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;
YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.’
“Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT ONE OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID HIS FLESH SUFFER DECAY. This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:

‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

E Hovell says:

I am so sad to see how Angus is leading innocent people away from the Truth. We pray he will see the error of his ways.

Raiha Marsden says:

If this website ‘discerningtheworld’ spent as much time on their knees praying for others as they do criticising and judging, than perhaps this world might be a better place.

R. L. Becky says:

[deleted by DTW – I love how people tell me how unloving I am for exposing false teaching and how wrong I am (even after quoting scripture) and they say these things to me in the most UNLOVING way, yet they try coat it with sugar. People with forked tongues attack me personally because they can’t back up their false gospel with scripture.]

John says:

[deleted – Please don’t insult me, I never insulted you. Please read all article on Angus here if you want to know the truth, if you don’t want to know the truth, then don’t]

John says:

[delete]

Staci says:

[delete – it is not cruel to point out FALSE TEACHING – it is a blessing to the millions of people who are being led astray]

Irma van der Colff says:

I lived in Israel for 5 years. To say that the wind never blows in that area is total nonsense! What happened there is not so uncommon.

A. Nonymous says:

Hi,

I have been reading some of you articles and the comments for some time now. I totally get what this website is about and I am glad I found it. I have a couple of questions though.

Firstly, something about myself. I come from a Dutch Reformed background and you could classify me as the typical conservative Afrikaner male. (It is perhaps because of this conservative nature that I started to explore and investigate things that I do not feel totally comfortable with) I attended a Dutch Reformed church for the biggest part of my life and always felt that there was more to Christianity than that which I experienced in the Dutch Reformed church. I therefore started to explore and ended up in a charismatic church and my wife and I currently are members of such a church. Please bear with me as it is difficult for me to explain everything I am feeling (experiencing) or to put it into words. The bottom line is that I enjoy going to this church, but there are also a couple of things that I am uncomfortable with.

I do not agree with the teaching that speaking in tongues is a sign of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. I also do not agree that the sign gifts of the Holy Spirit operates in the same way today as it did in the New Testament. I do believe that our God is capable of performing miracles and I know that miracles still happens today. I also do not like the fact that the Charismatic church rely so much on emotional experiences as part of the way they conduct services and meetings. The problem is, that as I understand, this is exactly what the Charismatic movement is all about?

There are however things that I do feel comfortable with in the church. For example, they do not force the congregation to tithe and I can honestly say that in my opinion money is not such a big issue in the church. When I say this, I do not mean that they do no ask as to tithe and to give joyfully, but what I mean is that money does not appear to be the main driving force behind the church as I understand that it is in some churches (This I have a very big problem with as I do not agree that people should be making mega bucks out of ministry). I also as of late try and test the teachings we receive from the church with God’s Word and apart from the things mentioned above, there is not much that I can find fault with. I must also admit that I have only very recently started to study my Bible properly so I am very aware that my understanding and interpretation at this stage might be limited, but I try and do this do the best of my ability. I know that I will grow as time passes and maybe things will start do become clearer in the future.

Now, my question. Is it okay to still go to this church? The town I am living in does not give me many options and of all the churches I have been to, this is the one I feel most comfortable with. I know it must be confusing, because how can I feel at all comfortable when there are so many things that makes me feel uncomfortable. Lets just say that I found a way to look past these things that I do not agree with. I also know the senior pastor personally and he is a very good and humble man and I can honestly say that he tries his best to bring the message across that God is the head of the church and not any other man and that God is the One who saves and that the Bible has final authority. He certainly does not promote himself and I never had the feeling that he feels superior to any other because if I had that impression I would have walked away a long time ago as that is something that really does not sit well with me.

I know I need to belong to a church and I need guidance as there is so much more that I need to learn and yes the Holy Spirit does give me guidance, but I also feel the need to receive spiritual guidance and teaching from fellow believers.

I ask you to please correct me where I am wrong in my opinions, but to also understand my background, my lack of biblical knowledge and the fact that I still need to grow a lot spiritually and still need to learn a lot from the Word of God. I am prepared and willing to do this as I know there is so much more that our Mighty God wants to teach me. Can I also say that I really appreciate the way you base everything you say on scripture and this is also why I had the courage to comment as I am not the type of guy that regularly comments on blogs. I want to apologise also for making a comment on this thread that is actually way off the topic…

Smiley says:

I have not found one word in the Bible that said that the gifts of the Holy Spirit was only for the First Church only.

Anybody willing to challenge me on this, Man Up!!

Why would God give us all the scripture on the gifts of the Holy Spirit??

Answer me that?? If you can??

This is a challenge to all of you on this Blog,

Give me scripture to say that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit was only for the first church?

The Holy Spirit Gifts were all used in the Church until the Roman Catholic “aka satan infiltrated church” destroyed the true biblical church

I know you want to delete this, but give me a fair debate based on Bible scripture

Love you all.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

Herman says:

Hi Deborah
Amazing, what you people do and I really like the way you stand your ground by telling the truth.
The church has lied to us and therefore I left them behind.
Most of the time they and the TV gospel shows are in it for the money. People think you are crazy when you tell them that.
Thank you for your effort and time you put into seeking the truth.
God Bless
Herman du Plessis

Sharon Griffith says:

Pentecost was NOT the beginning of the Lords Church. In the book of Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

We know that the word “church” means, a called out assembly. When our Lord Jesus called the Disciples and gave them the power to do things listed in the verse above the Church started then. The true Church of our Lord Jesus was EMPOWERED on the day of Pentecost by the entrance of the precious Holy Spirit. Prior to Pentecost there had already been Baptisms and the Lord’s Supper was first done at what we call the “Last Supper.” We also know that the true church has only two Ordinances, Baptism and the Lord’s Supper (some call it “Communion”) Since those two things happened before Pentecost and the Authority to perform those two Ordinances is given to the Church, then the Church began before Pentecost.

Vanessa says:

Steven,

Years ago (20/25 years) maybe more Rheinhard Bonnke began telling people that he lead thousands and thousands to the lord. These Charasmatic people love the numbers game. Do the maths. If this is the case then the whole of Africa must be saved by now. Then lets add a few more African pastors who brag. Ray Mccauley, Rodney-Howard Brown, At Boshoff, The Roebert family in East London, Angus. The all say millions have to the Lord by their services and teachings. Clearly this is not the case. I really have righteous anger when I hear how so called pastors brag. I shall copy and paste you a bible study on 2 Cor verse 10. I dont usually read anything but the KJV but I think you may enjoy the New Standard.

Paul’s Defense of His Ministry
10 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

7 You are judging by appearances.[a] If anyone is confident that they belong to Christ, they should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as they do. 8 So even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than tearing you down, I will not be ashamed of it. 9 I do not want to seem to be trying to frighten you with my letters. 10 For some say, “His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing.” 11 Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present.

12 We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise. 13 We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine our boasting to the sphere of service God himself has assigned to us, a sphere that also includes you. 14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel of Christ. 15 NEITHER DO WE GO BEYOUND OUR LIMITS BY BOASTING OF WORK DONE BY OTHERS. Our hope is that, as your faith continues to grow, our sphere of activity among you will greatly expand, 16 so that we can preach the gospel in the regions beyond you. For we do not want to boast about work already done in someone else’s territory. 17 But, “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[b] 18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.

Please search the word and ask God to reveal the absolute truth. Its painful to discover that the church as been lying to us but we should have questioned way back but we chose to sit comfy in our chairs believing and never questiong. Very similair to those in the Cathlic church. If you are truelly saved I know God will show you.
Take care.

Joshua Rehse says:

Every one of you who choose to believe that Uncle Angus’ message and the Spirit’s manifestation that night was a deception, are in fact the ones that are deceived.
What you’re actually doing is limiting God by discussing amongst yourselves what He should and should not do or how He should or should not reveal Himself to His people.
A lot of you have the taken the approach of Spiritual Pacifism towards God and His Holy Spirit. There is nothing passive about MY God!
Nobody was hurt at Ein Gedi that night. Nobody was injured. How can you therefore claim this was the enemy’s display?
How dare you choose such an incredible event and manifestation of the Spirit as a means to make yourself look holy and to arrogantly display your seemingly intelligent and intellectual outlook on what happened that night.
Disgusting!

tanja says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Estelle

>> do you still have that “blou rokkies” article I sent you long ago… I think the latter rain beliefs and those of the blou rokkies fits in to almost everything that Angus and the others believe.

Ja, I must look for that… somewhere in my billion email inbox haha 😉

[EDITED by DTW: Ahhh taa for the email!!]

Hi can you please send me the e-mail about the blou Rokkies to. Please I will like to read it.

Jacqui says:

Andreas Meyer wrote:

Didn’t they use wind making machines for that show?
http://gatewaynews.co.za/angus-buchan-a-rushing-mighty-wind/

Please, please don’t get confused, there a misconception or should I say a downright overlooking of what the scripture says in Acts 2:2, there was NO physical wind, the scripture says”and suddenly there came from heaven a NOISE (emphasis mine),like a violent, rushing wind and it filled the whole house where they were sitting” !!! You see how the signs and wonders sheeple jump on the band wagon, the Lord Jesus said an evil and adulterous nation seek after signs and wonders ……… The followers of these false prophets, fall into this category.