Angus Buchan’s Holy Ghost Chaos or…

Angus Buchan - Feast Of Tabernacles - holy ghostAngus Buchan’s Holy Ghost Chaos or….was it Something Else.

This was posted by Angus Buchan on his Facebook page.  A most bizarre letter to the public detailing his trip to the Dead Sea.   Please see my notes in GREEN.

Letter from Angus Buchan:

Dear Friends

The young man that accompanied me on my trip to Israel, after experiencing the phenomenon that I am about to relate to you said to me that he does not believe that we will see anything like this again in our lifetime.

I was asked to be the keynote speaker for the event at ‘The Feast of the Tabernacle 2012’ down at the Dead Sea, at Ein Gedi. It is an annual event that has been taking place for over thirty years. There was a crowd there of approximately four and a half thousand pilgrims from every corner of the earth (very significant), because at the time of the visitation of the Holy Spirit to the disciples in the ‘upper room’ people had congregated in Jerusalem from all the corners of the earth as well.

[DTW note:  What a load of nonsense.  The Pentecost in the book of Acts was a ONCE OFF occurrence. The Pentecost signaled the beginning of the church age.

The only reference to the actual events of Pentecost is (Acts 2:1-4). Pentecost is reminiscent of the Last Supper; in both instances the disciples are together in a house for what proves to be an important event. At the Last Supper the disciples witness the end of the Messiah’s earthly ministry as He asks them to remember Him after His death until He returns. At Pentecost, the disciples witness the birth of the New Testament church in the coming of the Holy Spirit to indwell all believers. Thus the scene of the disciples in a room at Pentecost commences with the beginning of the Holy Spirit’s work in the church with the conclusion of Christ’s earthly ministry in the upper room before the crucifixion.

Another aspect of the Day of Pentecost is the miraculous speaking in foreign tongues which enabled people from various language groups to understand the message of the apostles. In addition is the bold and incisive preaching of Peter to a Jewish audience. The effect of the sermon was powerful, as listeners were “cut to the heart” (Acts 2:37) and instructed by Peter to “repent, and be baptized” (Acts 2:38).  The narrative concludes with 3000 souls being saved, the breaking of bread and prayers, apostolic signs and wonders, and a Utopian community formed in which everyone’s needs were met.

Is Angus Buchan implying that his meeting was ANOTHER Pentecost? Signalling the beginning of ANOTHER church Age? Impossible.]

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When I arrived it was exceedingly hot, as always at the Dead Sea. There was a tremendous anticipation in the air of what God was going to do. The organizers had told me at the Christian embassy that they were expecting God to make a change. They had been praying and fasting that the Lord would bring a new season into the life of the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem (ICEJ). I was escorted to my seat in the front so that I could get onto the platform easily and the atmosphere was one of peace and joy. There were dancers dancing for the Lord from literally all over the world. The music team was amazing. Afro American singers from the United States of America, musicians from all over Europe and I could almost see the Lord was smiling from heaven. Eventually they called me up to the stage and they prayed for me and every one settled down to hear the Word of God.

I opened my Bible (it’s a heavy red coloured study Bible) and in the NKJ version I started to read from Act 2:1-4, it was speaking about the Holy Spirit visiting the disciples in the ‘upper room’. Verse 2 talks about a mighty rushing wind which came through and tongues of fire settled on each one of the disciples heads in that room. I had no sooner finished reading that scripture which was reminding them that Peter went out after that and preached. His first sermon that he ever preached three thousand people came to Christ. A man who had denied the Lord three times and who literally had been a coward was now being transformed. Why? Because he had been baptised in the Holy Ghost.

[DTW note:  Peter could preach so magnificently because of the Holy Spirit yes, but not because it was a “baptism in the Holy Ghost” as seen in today’s churches that Angus Buchan would have us believe.  Note, AFTER the Pentecost experience, Peter went out to peach and the 3000 who came to salvation did not experience the ‘wind and tongues of fire above their heads’ that those in the upper room experienced. Because what happened in the upper room was a special experience – God was empowering them for the Great Commission.]

As soon as I finished reading I closed my Bible and started to walk on the platform like I normally do, up and down … and a wind came from no where. Literally a mighty rushing wind, that seemed to be coming from every side, from the north, south, east and the west at one time. It was a wind I can only describe it was very similar to what a tornado must be like, because it blew that heavy Bible straight off the lectern. It started blowing all the overhead screens, ripping them to shreds, dust was everywhere and it started to rain.

[DTW note:  I don’t read anywhere in the bible that the Holy Spirit is destructive]

I need to remind you that the Dead Sea is not called the Dead Sea for nothing; there is not a blade of grass in that place. It looks like the moon; it is a real dessert area. That’s the place where David hid from King Saul, when Saul was trying to kill him. They never get wind there, wind does not blow in the valleys – wind is known to blow on the mountains. We are not talking of the Sea of Galilee which is alive and vibrant with fresh water we are talking about the Dead Sea where the water is so salty and so stagnant that people can not actually sink, you can not drown in the Dead Sea.

This wind came from nowhere. It started blowing and as the intensity grew and as I started welcoming the Holy Spirit and saying “Come Holy Spirit”, the wind intensified and the structure started shaking, a huge platform with a steal girders above me where multicoloured lights were mounted. A beautiful setting and it was like God just stripped everything. I found myself standing on the platform on my own with nothing, except a microphone. I went through three microphones that night. The third one they had to give me on a direct lead, an electrical cord. One of the organizers in the front, a Norwegian by the name of Jan who brought his OB tuck by ship all the way from Norway to film the event live back to Scandinavia said a man from the far East who couldn’t speak English was shouting to him “fire, fire” and he understood that it was the fire of God coming downwhich it was by the way. But he looked around and eventually saw that the electrical cables going from his OB truck had caught on fire.

The satellite link was cut off because of the mighty wind that was blowing. I started to speak in tongues, I started singing in tongues. I encouraged the people to do the same, they got on their knees, then they stood up and then they were crying, we were laughing, it was literally “Holy Ghost chaos.” 

[DTW note:  Angus Buchan spoke and sang in gibberish which he considers tongues!  And encourages everyone to to the same.  The bible on the other hand says that at Pentecost, they spoke human languages that they themselves did not understand. 

Acts 2:6-11

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

So as you can see it is clear that people from other areas could understand the Galilaeans speaking the Word of God in their language.  It was not gibberish or gobildy gook that Angus Buchan and the rest of the false church speaks today.

The ‘gift of tongues’ given to the early church was given as the Holy Spirit willed. Because the Holy Spirit is sovereign. No one has the right to demand that he be given any certain gift or gifts as an evidence of the Holy Spirit’s baptism.  Tongues was certainly not evidence of salvation.  For example, some people in the Corinthian church were given the gift of tongues to edify the church – this tongue was an earthly language.

1Cor 14:2 “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.”

G1100  glossa (glows-sah) n.
1. the tongue
2. (by implication) a language
3. (specially) a language not naturally acquired

The Corinthian church did not have the Bible, so the gift of tongues was needed, but then they ceased.  Corinth, was a market visted by many a merchant from Asia, Africa, and Europe, and had a wildly mixed population speaking many a different language.  To exercise of the gift of tongues in preaching bought many an unbeliever to salvation.

1Cor 13:8  “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.”

But, tongues served their purpose, a very useful one, in authenticating the Message that was delivered as being DIVINE;  these signs followed the proclamation of the truth. Now with God’s complete revelation in our hands (the Bible), we do not require signs to manifest it as the Word of the Lord. When preached in power, it authenticates itself]

Please see this article explaining “Tongues” – Speaking in Tongues

I can only explain it like this, it was like the Lord took His hand from heaven and He wiped it clean from anything that we had tried to do, there was nothing left. I was standing alone, I was leaning into the wind to try and keep my balance and God was moving amongst the people.

Every nation on earth was represented. I am an Evangelist, I am aware of my responsibility to preach the Gospel and to pray the sinner’s prayer with unbelievers. Well I want to tell you for the first time in my life I never even made an alter call and the people started running forward. Hundreds and Hundreds of them. Then something else that I have never done in my life before, the Israeli crew that was responsible for erecting the stage area pleaded with me to please tell the people to go back to their seats because they were afraid that the structure was going to collapse. But no one was listening to me; they were experiencing a tangible manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

[DTW note:  I don’t believe it, why would God come and destroy your stage?  We have 1 of 2 things happening here.  1) This is God’s judgement on you and your false teaching;  that you dare come to God’s land Israel and speak your Latter Rain false teaching there.  2) Because you love your signs and wonders so much, and people prayed for ‘God’ to make a change, Satan jumped right in and blew up a tempest wind that you mistook as being the Holy Spirit.  Well your god really did make a change, he re-arranged your stage for you and left you standing with nothing, so much so that you could not preach (which was probably a good thing, considering it’s Latter Rain false doctrine anyhow)]

Just as a matter of interest, let’s see how the Holy Spirit of the Bible operates:

Who is the Holy Spirit?

  • The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity.  (Acts 5:3-4)
  • The Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will. (1 Corinthians 2:10; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11)
  • The Holy Spirit is also omnipresence (Psalm 139:7-8)
  • The Holy Spirit is omniscience (1 Corinthians 2:10-11)
  • The Holy Spirit intercedes for us when we can’t pray (Romans 8:26-27)
  • The Holy Spirit is Helper our Comforter and our Counsellor (John 14:16,26; 15:26)
  • The Holy Spirit will guide us and lead us into all Truth according to Biblical scripture. (John 16:12)A crucial part of the truth the Holy Spirit reveals is that Jesus is who He said He is (John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:3)
    • There is NO extra-biblical revelation from the Holy Spirit.
  • The Holy Spirit’s role is that of gift-giver (Corinthians 12)The Holy Spirit is also the fruit producer in our lives (Galatians 5:22-23)
    • The Holy Spirit convinces us of Jesus Christ’s deity and incarnation, that He is the Messiah, i.e.,
    • He gives glory to Christ in all things.  (John 16:14)

How do we receive the Holy Spirit

  • We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Saviour. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
  • We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour (John 3:5-16)

Are there any happenings that go with the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

  • No, the evidence of a genuine salvation is you are now not controlled by your sinful nature but by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:9)
  • Chastisement by the Holy Spirit when we sin to repent of our sin and not sin again. (Hebrews 12:6-7; Hebrews 12:8)
  • Evidence of being born again is:
    • Obeying scripture, God’s commandments.  (1 John 2:5)
    • Respecting God’s pronouncements as authoritative in your life. Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour. (1 John 1:8)
    • No more love for the world. (1 John 2:15)
    • Living in daily awareness that Jesus Christ will return for His own! (1 John 3:2-3)
    • You are sinning less now than when you first made a profession of faith in Christ. You hate sinning.  (1 John 3:9)
    • Love for other believers in Jesus Christ. (1 John 3:14)
    • Pray all the time and having prayers answered. (1 John 3:22)
    • Sharp Discernment as you find it easy to sort out the claims of various religions, etc. (1 John 4:1)
    • You have a conscious awareness that the Holy Spirit of God lives in you. He teaches you things from the Scriptures on a regular basis. (1 John 4:13)

What does ‘Walking in the Spirit’ mean?.  What does being “Filled by the Holy Spirit’ mean?

  • The Filling of the Holy Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life as we grow in Holiness.  Also known as to “walk in the Spirit; It is to follow the Holy Spirit’s leading.
  • It is essentially to “walk with” the Holy Spirit, allowing Him to guide your steps and conform your mind. (Ephesians 4:1; Philippians 1:27)

Evidence or Signs and Wonders:

  • Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
  • If we need healing or deliverance we are to ask HIM DIRECTLY through prayer and He will heal us.
    • We do not need to go to men with so called ‘gifts of healing’ when we can approach Jesus Christ directly.
    • Yes we can have others pray for us (genuine Christians that is).
    • We pray in faith, but faith means that we are to trust God. We trust Him to do what is best and to know what is best. (Romans 8:28)
    • Suffering is part of life for both the unbeliever and the believer. For the believer it is often used by God in the development and maturing of our faith.  (Philippians 3:10)
    • Paul the apostle prayed to have his “thorn in the flesh” removed, but God said, “No” because He wanted Paul to understand that for in Paul’s weakness, God’s strength is made perfect. (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).
    • Don’t conclude that because you have not been healed that you have an absence or lack of faith or some secret sin that prevents your healing. You just might have God’s glory resting on you for a special purpose.

A local tour operator told me that in thirty one years of coming down to the Dead Sea every single year he had never ever seen rain and he had never experienced a wind of that measure. My dear friend I have no doubt whatsoever that the Holy Spirit visited us.

[DTW note:  Angus has no doubt that it was the Holy Spirit?  Really?  I decided to go through the NT on behalf of Angus Buchan and I can’t find any instance of the Holy Spirit behaving in such manner.  The Holy Spirit is a soft still voice as mentioned in Kings which is in the OT.

1Kgs 19:12  “And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.”  

Now I know there are going to be many who are going to tell me that God is doing things outside of His box.  What they are implying is that God lied when He said His Word was His FINAL AUTHORITY on all matters.  I prefer to stick to God’s box (the Bible), thanks.].

I want to tell you that never again will I apologize for the presence of the Holy Spirit. He will be pre-eminent in all my meetings, in all my conversations and in everything I do. I firmly believe that we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit and I firmly believe that the evidence is speaking in a beautiful language.  If it is possible for a man to be born again, again then that’s what happened to me. I am so filled with the joy of the Lord; I am so at peace, I have so much confidence. I want to encourage you to allow Him to fill you with His Spirit; He is standing at the door, Revelation 3:20 and He is knocking. I have no cause to tell you a lie. I want to tell you that He is alive and that He is well. Give the Holy Spirit place in your life and He will bless you.

God bless
Angus Buchan

source:  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Angus-Buchan/257406448855

[DTW note:  Angus seems to think that receiving the Holy Spirit is a separate act over and above being saved.  This is not true.  These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation.   Paul said to the Corinthian believers that they all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink because all possessed the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 states it even clearer; if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ.

Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the attaining of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit  is the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) which the person receives at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.

There are many a ministry that have this simple process of how the Holy Spirit operates confused. The truth is that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation (the moment you are genuinely saved, you are “baptized by the Holy Spirit”).  The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. Unbiblical ministries confuse the “baptism of the Holy Spirit”  as an act separate to salvation, and this is where Satan jumps in and fools people, presenting them with a false holy spirit.

Angus said, “If it is possible for a man to be born again, again then that’s what happened to me”  The Holy Spirit does not come and go, come and go from a believer. He either abides in you, or He does not.   

Rom 8:9   “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”  

In fact the bible says it’s impossible for your to be born again twice.  

Hebrews 6:4-8 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we genuinely believe.

Angus said, “I firmly believe that the evidence is speaking in a beautiful language”.   The evidence of being saved is NOT speaking in tongues (gibberish) as Angus so states, I have given a list of evidences above.

See video 0f Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard-Browne Joking in “Tongues”

Please read the correct biblical interpretation of Joel 2 and Acts 2 below –  

….Latter Rain adherents have a movement that believes in a last day’s revival unlike any other in history. This revival is for the church.  They incorrectly apply eschatological passages specifically for Israel to the church. The common mistake is taking the scripture in (Acts 2:17) which says: ‘God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh,’ to substantiate what is happening in the new revivals today. This is not the meaning of this verse and cannot be applied today for the above mentioned reasons….Your Sons and Your Daughters Will Prophesy, But Not Yet…]

Edited 13/11/2012 – Video found.

I found the following video of Angus at the Dead Sea, at Ein Gedi.  It appears that Angus asks God for a repeat of what happened at Pentecost!  That is not what he said in his newsletter above.  Imagine that.  Now we know that in the bible people kept asking Jesus for a sign, for a miracle that He was the Son of God (INSTEAD OF BELIEVING BY FAITH) and Jesus said to them… (Matthew 12.39-40) “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”.

The only sign that Angus will never be satisfied with is that fact that Jesus was crucified, buried for 3 days and rose again.  Faith is not enough for Angus, he must have a sign.  And Jesus will not give it to him.  Who does give signs and wonders?  Satan.  Matthew 24:24  “For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”

LIST OF ALL ANGUS BUCHAN ARTICLES:

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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34 Comment authors
Tom (Discerning the World)tanjaJacquiTom (Discerning the World)Joshua Rehse Recent comment authors
Estelle
Guest
Estelle

Hi Christene,
maybe you should read this article, regarding the anointed / anointing…

————–

When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.” And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others were mocking and saying, “They are full of sweet wine.”

But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ GOD SAYS,
‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
AND THEY SHALL PROPHESY.
AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. For David says of Him,

‘I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;
FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;
YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.’
“Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT ONE OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID HIS FLESH SUFFER DECAY. This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:

‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Chris
Guest
Chris

Christine it is not surprising to see the way in which you react. I did the same when I was still ignorant of facts regarding people like Angus. Yes, and I also listened to many of Angus’s sermons and agree that 99,9% of his sermons are accurate and quite applicable.

But unfortunately the danger lies in what he does not tell his audiences. The trouble or deception is not always in what one preaches but in what one does not preach or say.

I hope sincerely that Angus is ignorant of whom he associates with rather than doing this on purpose. If he is ignorant of the whiles of the organizations and people he associates with there is hope for recovery if not then he is in trouble with the Lord.

When looking at your replies I recognise that you are fortunately one of the ignorant ones as you have criticized without mentioning ONE Bible verse or any other relevant facts regarding for example the International Christian Embassy of Jerusalem. So there is still a chance for you to discern between what is really right or wrong.

AS you may have noticed many of us have in person inquired from these people personally to make sure we understand their errors and have not argued without making sure of the facts before responding. (This arguable is better than your criticisms as you do not know us at all and have never had any civil discussion with us regarding for example the issue at hand)
Jealous of Angus????? Well let’s see the Bible says: That the Gospel must be preached to the Jews, but Angus associates with people who say the opposite and who signed an agreement with the Knesset where they agree not to spread the Gospel to the Jews proactively. I will never be jealous of one opposing God’s word – rather VERY CONCERNED.

Who must I believe Angus or the Bible? I know……l’ll believe the Bible – you believe whatever you want to but remember you will have to explain that to God one day……. not too fat off.
If people are ignorant there is hope for recovery by getting informed. Rather look at this as relevant information – go do your homework and decide before shooting from the hip.

It is not everyone who preaches that one may trust: 2Co 11:13 for such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

E Hovell
Guest
E Hovell

I am so sad to see how Angus is leading innocent people away from the Truth. We pray he will see the error of his ways.

Martin Horan
Guest
Martin Horan

Christine, I suggest you read the Bible properly before you accuse another Christian.

The Bible calls the devil “the accuser of the brethren” [Rev 12:10]. People are actually doing doing the devil’s dirty work when they falsely accuse Christians. Shame on THEM when they do that!
We are told in the Bible that people twist Scriptures to their own DESTRUCTION [2 Peter 3:16]. So I suggest before you quote Scriptures that you read properly what they really say and not read into them anything that they do not say.

When the Bible says do not touch my anointed ones it says exactly that, no more, no less. I have not TOUCHED John Hagee. In fact, I have done what the Bible actually does tell me to do: viz., earnestly contend for the faith once delivered [Jude 3]. So I obey God when I do contend for the faith.

If you do not understand what the word CONTEND actually means, I suggest you go to an English dictionary and check that word before you make accusations [1 Thess 5:21].
Also, when I read the writings of John Hagee or any other Christian, or even pseudo-Christian, writer it is incumbent upon me to obey that last Scripture I’ve quoted; and also 1 John 4:1. (These Scriptures are in the imperative verb which means I have no option but to obey them. That, by God’s grace, I try to do.) I would encourage any Christian to do the same. If they think they can pick and chose Scriptures as they like then they are greatly mistaken [2 Tim 3:16].

Some people choose first to go to men for teaching but I choose to go to Scripture before any man. In the New Testament Christians are commended for identifying false apostles and wolves in sheep’s clothing. How do you suppose they manage to do so?

Acts 17:11 tells us that the Bereans were noble because they did just that. As a former Catholic I did as most people in cults (and those who follow false teachers and false apostles) do: I listened to men whose words did not tie up with Scripture.

Dave Hunt excellently sums up that cultist mentality:
“Satan’s claim that he alone had the correct interpretation of what God said (to Adam and Eve) is the foundation of every cult. Those who join a cult do so because its perverted interpretation of Scripture appeals to them. Appealing too is the fact that its leader decides and dictates what every member should believe and do. Cultists mistakenly imagine that by submission to absolute authority, whether guru, pastor or pope, they can escape personal responsibility to God. Self-interest motivates the members of any cult. Whoever truly loves God, however, will be delivered from self-deception” (How Close Are We?).

And as to touching God’s anointed which you will find in 1 Sam 26:9-11, 1 Chron 16:22; Ps 105:15, &c, it is from the Hebrew “Mashiyach” and applies to a consecrated Old Testament king, priest or even the Messiah Hiimself. Hopefully, you do not put John Hagee on any of those levels.

If you check where “anointed” is used in the New Testament, you will find that it has nothing to do with the context of pastors or ministers–especially would-be ones.
To accept what any man says above the word of God is to put a man above God’s word. That is, in my mind, idolatry. It is also doing what cult members do and is done because it appeals to what the hearer wants to hear rather than deduce objectively. If you see John Hagee as God’s anointed, it’s your affair.

I certainly don’t even see him as a sound teacher because he claims that Jews do not need to be converted.

If you believe he is correct on that point, perhaps you can explain to me what Peter and Paul were doing preaching the Gospel to the Jews. Why did Jesus command His apostles to first go through Israel preaching the Good News?

The Jewish people who are very dear to my heart need the Gospel as much as Gentiles. Messianic Jews know that and disagree with Hagee.

To tell Jews that they do not need to be saved is not Scriptural. The Jews have suffered and will go through the Great Tribulation until they see The Messiah at His Return and mourn for Him. So for John Hagee to say that Jews do not need to have Christ is foolishness at best and heresy at worst.

I cannot read Mr Hagee’s heart and I know he has a great love for the Jews. However, he is not doing God’s Chosen People a favour by his unscriptural teachings and he needs to be corrected.

We all need to be corrected, Christine, and that applies to me as much as anyone. I do not mind being corrected. Indeed, I welcome it. But I only welcome it if it is backed by Scripture. If it is not, I reject it.

May God bless you in your searching the Scriptures. John 5:39 will explain why.

Raiha Marsden
Guest
Raiha Marsden

If this website ‘discerningtheworld’ spent as much time on their knees praying for others as they do criticising and judging, than perhaps this world might be a better place.

R. L. Becky
Guest
R. L. Becky

[deleted by DTW – I love how people tell me how unloving I am for exposing false teaching and how wrong I am (even after quoting scripture) and they say these things to me in the most UNLOVING way, yet they try coat it with sugar. People with forked tongues attack me personally because they can’t back up their false gospel with scripture.]

Chris
Guest
Chris

It is always like that. People will nail you personally yet no Scripture will be mentioned what so ever.

As you rightly said also these people accuse you of being judgmental yet they do the same.

In John’s gospel we read to judge with righteous judgment and that we do by judging according to what is written, yet these people judge according to their own understanding.
To most of these folks that judge like this, everyone who comes along and preaches something looking like what is biblical must be correct and they NEVER study the Word to discern what is right and wrong.

In the last days we are warned to be very careful and as Jesus Himself told the disciples to watch out for being deceived. Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Deception does not take place without a thing by which one is deceived. As someone once told me, with deception one will always find REAL cheese in a RAT TRAP.

This is what Peter also warned about and that is to be careful of the real cheese:

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Think on this for a while: False prophets amongst believers and then they bring in damnable heresies with misleading words and MANY not might but SHALL follow them.

Apart from being ignorant of the Word I do not think that these deceived persons will be stupid hence them having to be DECEIVED with real “cheese” or preaching from the gospel.

This warning was given to Timothy by Paul for the last days: 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

If one looks at the people Angus is rubbing shoulders with and those who he is quoting in many of his sermons, then I can only come to the conclusion that he has been deceived by deceivers and we have to take heed not to be deceived by him.

Peter warned that false prophets will use “REAL cheese” hence deception otherwise they will not be able to deceive.

It is IMPORTANT to know of the concept of “Pareisago”: In 2 Peter2:1 we find the concept of “ privily bringing in…” this concept used here is “Pareisago” which basically means in context, to preach mostly truth but next to the truth there is something sinister that will cause people to be led astray.

Much of what Angus preaches is true…………but next to this there is leaven.

Remember a little leaven leavens the whole bread. It grows and grows as we follow the preacher who comes with much of what is true. We become complacent and when we look again we have departed from the doctrine of the Lord Jesus and gave His warnings no remembrance to follow deceivers rather than the Lord.

Louis
Guest
Louis

Hi, I would like to leave a comment or two.
I was fortunate to got invited to go along with a group of men to the last mighty men conference in 2010, before that I was married, had a 9 month old son, but I was a bad husband, I wasn’t a father to my son, I had no relationship of any kind with God, but on that Friday night 16/4/2010, God had an appointment with me, using the man I look up to as a mighty man of God, Angus Buchan, he preach that Friday night and really, I can’t remember a lot but, what I can remember was that the Holy Spirit was there and that God saved my life that evening, He saved my marriage and a lot more and He used Angus Bughan as a tool to save me.

I was born again on that Friday evening at an event where there were more than 300,000 men, that is a God miracle on its own.

I read the letter that Angus have sent to his mailing list on the 4th of October re the encounter with the Holy Spirit in Isreal at the Dead Sea, and yesterday I watch the video on youtube, both instances I just got tears in my eyes and that usually happens when God pitches, so yes there is a lot of doctrine etc. and I am only a christian for just over two years and I don’t know the bible by a long shot.

But what I know is that: If Jesus was borne today, and he had to gather is 12 disciples like in the bible, that would have probably be 12 local fisherman from the west coast of our country, rough diamonds, and He would have used them to teach us about God and salvation etc.

God uses a willing person to to his work and he will equip with the help of the bible.

I am am still in awe of what God did in my life through Angus Bughan.

I am not saying you are wrong with all the biblical verses that you quote and with all the reasoning behind that, but we as Christians need to get in the stream with the rough diamonds and not try to explain the bible in a couple of days, we need to love, we need to lead people to salvation, and we need opportunities like the miracle that happened in Isreal at The Feast of the Tabernacle to tell people that we serve a living mighty God.

My prayer for all of you will be that to put other people first, do what Jesus would have done, we need salvation in this world, and sooner all of us realize that, then we can go home and be with our ABBA FATHER.

That all from me for now, you are more than welcome to delete this or comment on this.

Thanks for the opportunity to give my 2 cents, and I know this is what God wanted me to put in the comments.

Robbie
Guest
Robbie

Louis, and remember that God can and will use any man to accomplish His will and purpose. Even men like Angus. And when you come to the truth, you will see that Angus had nothing to do with it. It was your soul that mattered and Jesus did it Himself.

Indeed, please keep reading.

John
Guest
John

[deleted – Please don’t insult me, I never insulted you. Please read all article on Angus here if you want to know the truth, if you don’t want to know the truth, then don’t]

John
Guest
John

[deleted – Please don’t insult me, I never insulted you. Please read all article on Angus here if you want to know the truth, if you don’t want to know the truth, then don’t]

John
Guest
John

[delete]

John
Guest
John

[delete]

Staci
Guest
Staci

[delete – it is not cruel to point out FALSE TEACHING – it is a blessing to the millions of people who are being led astray]

Follower of Christ
Guest
Follower of Christ

[delete]

Irma van der Colff
Guest
Irma van der Colff

I lived in Israel for 5 years. To say that the wind never blows in that area is total nonsense! What happened there is not so uncommon.

Irma
Guest
Irma

Average rainfall at Ein Gedi for October is 8mm

A. Nonymous
Guest
A. Nonymous

Hi,

I have been reading some of you articles and the comments for some time now. I totally get what this website is about and I am glad I found it. I have a couple of questions though.

Firstly, something about myself. I come from a Dutch Reformed background and you could classify me as the typical conservative Afrikaner male. (It is perhaps because of this conservative nature that I started to explore and investigate things that I do not feel totally comfortable with) I attended a Dutch Reformed church for the biggest part of my life and always felt that there was more to Christianity than that which I experienced in the Dutch Reformed church. I therefore started to explore and ended up in a charismatic church and my wife and I currently are members of such a church. Please bear with me as it is difficult for me to explain everything I am feeling (experiencing) or to put it into words. The bottom line is that I enjoy going to this church, but there are also a couple of things that I am uncomfortable with.

I do not agree with the teaching that speaking in tongues is a sign of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. I also do not agree that the sign gifts of the Holy Spirit operates in the same way today as it did in the New Testament. I do believe that our God is capable of performing miracles and I know that miracles still happens today. I also do not like the fact that the Charismatic church rely so much on emotional experiences as part of the way they conduct services and meetings. The problem is, that as I understand, this is exactly what the Charismatic movement is all about?

There are however things that I do feel comfortable with in the church. For example, they do not force the congregation to tithe and I can honestly say that in my opinion money is not such a big issue in the church. When I say this, I do not mean that they do no ask as to tithe and to give joyfully, but what I mean is that money does not appear to be the main driving force behind the church as I understand that it is in some churches (This I have a very big problem with as I do not agree that people should be making mega bucks out of ministry). I also as of late try and test the teachings we receive from the church with God’s Word and apart from the things mentioned above, there is not much that I can find fault with. I must also admit that I have only very recently started to study my Bible properly so I am very aware that my understanding and interpretation at this stage might be limited, but I try and do this do the best of my ability. I know that I will grow as time passes and maybe things will start do become clearer in the future.

Now, my question. Is it okay to still go to this church? The town I am living in does not give me many options and of all the churches I have been to, this is the one I feel most comfortable with. I know it must be confusing, because how can I feel at all comfortable when there are so many things that makes me feel uncomfortable. Lets just say that I found a way to look past these things that I do not agree with. I also know the senior pastor personally and he is a very good and humble man and I can honestly say that he tries his best to bring the message across that God is the head of the church and not any other man and that God is the One who saves and that the Bible has final authority. He certainly does not promote himself and I never had the feeling that he feels superior to any other because if I had that impression I would have walked away a long time ago as that is something that really does not sit well with me.

I know I need to belong to a church and I need guidance as there is so much more that I need to learn and yes the Holy Spirit does give me guidance, but I also feel the need to receive spiritual guidance and teaching from fellow believers.

I ask you to please correct me where I am wrong in my opinions, but to also understand my background, my lack of biblical knowledge and the fact that I still need to grow a lot spiritually and still need to learn a lot from the Word of God. I am prepared and willing to do this as I know there is so much more that our Mighty God wants to teach me. Can I also say that I really appreciate the way you base everything you say on scripture and this is also why I had the courage to comment as I am not the type of guy that regularly comments on blogs. I want to apologise also for making a comment on this thread that is actually way off the topic…

Smiley
Guest
Smiley

I have not found one word in the Bible that said that the gifts of the Holy Spirit was only for the First Church only.

Anybody willing to challenge me on this, Man Up!!

Why would God give us all the scripture on the gifts of the Holy Spirit??

Answer me that?? If you can??

This is a challenge to all of you on this Blog,

Give me scripture to say that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit was only for the first church?

The Holy Spirit Gifts were all used in the Church until the Roman Catholic “aka satan infiltrated church” destroyed the true biblical church

I know you want to delete this, but give me a fair debate based on Bible scripture

Love you all.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

Smiley
Guest
Smiley

Angus confesses Jesus Christ and his fruits are all good.

So according to biblical Scripture I find no fault with him

Smiley
Guest
Smiley

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Smiley
I love challenges. Read your bible in context…
Your Sons and Your Daughters Will Prophesy, But Not Yet…
Speaking in Tongues
Yes, a Future Kingdom, but Not a Kingdom Now
Christian Right Fuses with Apostolic Dominionism
Latter Rain – Taking Dominion with another Gospel another Christ
and many more…

1) That was written to that Church to remind then that love is the most important, and not focus so much on these gifts that they forget about the most important. love.

2) The only thing that is perfect is the Lam, through the whole Bible Jesus is referred to as perfect. In the OT the lam had to be perfect, Jesus was/is perfect. So when Jesus comes back then we will not need these gifts anymore obviously.

3) Why would God give us all these scripture on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and then make then null in void when we get the Bible? Does not make sense at all.

4) It is written is future tense. torques and prophecy “”will”” cease when that which is perfect comes.

Thank you for the opportunity to give my view on the topic.

Be Blessed

Smiley
Guest
Smiley

[delete – Smiley I am deleting your comments because you are not being truthful: 1) You follow a false gospel, 2) that being you are commenting by using another name as well, Petrus – Please don’t comment on this blog again]