John MacArthur – Transformation of Grace Community Church

John MacArthurThis information has been painstakingly put together by Bob Johnson over a period of several years.  It’s shocking and I believe it’s the truth. Bob has been attacked by John MacArthur and Phil Johnson who have tried to discredit him, but the facts remain standing strong.

I am going to present this information only because I stand for the truth AT ALL COSTS.  [Edited by DTW: 31 Mar 2010 – I have made a public apology too everyone I told that MacArthur is legitimate.   I am very very sorry for this. I trusted MacArthur and I was deceived and I led others to believe he was ok. Every bit of credibility I gave John MacArthur I retract.  I did not understand the doctrine of Calvinism at the time, now I do.  Please see here for my sincerest apology: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/30/what-do-you-do-when]

Now before anyone gets all carried away, I am not a Calvinist.  I am a born again Christian and my ‘denomination’ is what lies between the pages of the Word of God.  I believe in free will and I believe that repentance of sin is an ongoing essential part of your relationship with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. We are not predestined, or elected by God before the foundation of the world (for biblical predestination understanding please see What it Really Means to be Elected, Chosen, and Predestinated – The Biblical Truth);   I won’t even get onto the topic of John Calvin as that’s another story all on it’s own and Calvinism has it’s roots in Rome.

Are there people who are genuinely saved under GCC – Absolutely, when they find out the truth as to what Calvinism is all about, they will leave there sooner or later.  God knows our hearts.  He knows what we think, He knows what we believe, He knows everything about us.  I believe we are all judged on what we know up to a certain point in time.  (I am NOT talking about sin here, or using this as an excuse to say, “oh I never accepted Jesus, because I didn’t know anything, or no one told me.)  Because the Bible commands you to study to find yourself approved anyhow, so no one has any excuse.  And if you have the Holy Spirit in your life you will never get something so wrong or believe and follow something so wrong as the doctrine of Calvinism and the fruit of John MacArthur speaks for itself.Now when the Holy Spirit reveals to us what’s really going on behind the scenes, this is when we are now faced with a massive decision of “should I stay or should I go” – will you accept the false teachings that are slithering its way in, or will I stand firm on the Word of God and warn others about what is happening and get out because you will not tolerate men insulting Jesus Christ! When the Holy Spirit has warned you, you can’t ever say to Jesus one day, “I didn’t know”, because you did know, but you CHOSE (free will) TO IGNORE IT.  And in doing so you continued to stay and support ungodly doctrines.

Even if John MacArthur carried on preaching what sounded like the greatest gospel from the pulpit (which we know is not because it’s Calvinistic) – he will slowly but surely lead his congregation astray more and more astray as he turns to Rome along with every other denomination in these end times.

Will his preaching start to change?  Will it become a more emergent gospel?  It appears has as he is embracing contemplative spirituality for some time:  John MacArthur and Dallas Willard – Two Contemplating Calvinists

Does John MacArthur have to make a choice like the rest of us to follow Jesus Christ 100% or follow Satan instead? Absolutely.

We ALL sit in the same position. Jesus Christ is LORD, He is our KING, He judges ALL, NO ONE gets an ‘immunity card’ from GOD.

Ok let’s get onto the info shall we…

—————–

The Transformation of John Macarthur’s Grace Community Church

How Change Agents are Transitioning GCC into the New World Order

Introduction  –

by Bob Johnson On January 2, 2005,

John MacArthur gave a sermon to his congregation in which he described the state of his church. In that sermon John MacArthur stated, “I feel like part of the ministry I must discharge before the Lord and you is a ministry of warning about danger. Our church is not in particular danger from some dominating iniquity. It is not in particular danger from some infiltrating heresy. It is not in danger from some loss of resources financially or human. Everything you can see on the surface looks to be good. And we would have every reason to think we stand, and still be on the brink of a fall.”

John MacArthur said that his church was not in particular danger from infiltrating heresy. This paper will show that a dangerous heresy has infiltrated his church; a heresy known generally as the church growth movement. And this paper will show that this movement, being backed by globalists and being used to fulfill their one-world agenda, is now manipulating GCC into that same agenda.

John MacArthur said that his church is not in danger from some dominating iniquity.This paper will show that John MacArthur, being the dominant figure in his church, by disobeying the doctrine of separation, has allowed men to speak at his church and has allowed men to occupy leadership positions in his church, who, professing to be Christians, are actually dedicated to this one-world agenda.

John MacArthur  said that everything you can see on the surface of his church looks to be good. I have been to his church, and I have attended his ministries, and I didn’t have to look beyond the surface to see that everything there is not good. I didn’t have to look beyond the surface of his church in order to see the presence of the Purpose Driven Church (PDC) model or the dialectic sessions employed by that model.

Nor did I have to look beyond the surface to see that John MacArthur’s international ministry, a ministry dedicated to “training church leaders worldwide,” is a church growth organization now partnering with foreign governments.In his “state of the church” sermon, John Macarthur said that GCC could be on the brink of a fall. GCC has gone beyond that brink and has now fallen. GCC is not holy, peculiar, sanctified and set apart, but rather, is a church that has now found common ground with Satanic agents pushing the one-world agenda via the church growth movement.

Allow me, by way of introduction, to say how I became interested in the goings on at GCC. My interest in GCC began in March 2005 when a local pastor invited me to accompany him to the GCC Pastor’s Conference being held that same month. Wanting to get information about the conference, I went to the GCC website where I noticed that Dr. Albert Mohler was to be a keynote speaker. I’d never heard of Dr. Mohler.

When curiosity pressed and an internet search ended, I had discovered information about Dr. Mohler that was not in accord with his Christian profession. I had discovered that Dr. Mohler was a Founding Fellow of the “think tank” of a UN-NGO. I had discovered that a UN-NGO is a non-governmental organization that is listed with the UN and that serves the UN and its one-world agenda. And therefore, I concluded that it must necessarily follow, that Dr. Mohler, being a Founding Fellow of this UN-NGO’s “think tank” which serves the UN and its agenda, must also serve the UN agenda. (It has since been confirmed to me by a colleague of Dr. Mohler’s that all the Fellows of the “think tank” of this UN-NGO are dedicated to the principles of the charter of the UN).

Knowing that the UN agenda is satanic and knowing that this agenda includes the destruction of Biblical Christianity, I wondered why John Macarthur would invite a man dedicated to this agenda into his church and into his pulpit. Was John Macarthur aware of Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation? (I have since learned that Dr. Mohler holds leadership positions in at least two organizations that serve the UN globalist agenda as NGO’s.)

I proceeded to write a letter to each of the members of the GCC elder board. I warned them all of Dr. Mohler’s associations. I received a reply from elder, Phil Johnson, dated March 23, 2005. Regarding Dr. Mohler’s associations, Mr. Johnson wrote, “We may not agree with all his associations, but nothing in Scripture demands that we separate from a true brother in Christ just because we may disagree with him on where he draws the circle of his own fellowship.” Is this a true statement? Is there nothing in Scripture that demands separation from a professed Christian who is affiliated with satanic evil (the UN)? Many verses in Scripture demand that Christians separate from evil and 2 Thess. 3:14 demands separation from professed Christians who are disobedient: “And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him that he may be ashamed.” Scripture does demand separation from Dr. Mohler.

Why didn’t the GCC elders seem to be alarmed by Dr. Mohler’s affiliations? Why were they willing to ignore Biblical commands in order to continue a relationship with Dr. Mohler? Being dissatisfied with the reply I’d received from the GCC elder board, I then decided to make phone calls to several other GCC pastors in order to inform them of Dr. Mohler’s UN connection. Surely, they would all be concerned. I told them all that Dr. Mohler was a Fellow of a UN-NGO. What was their response? The pastors all angrily denied this easily verifiable fact. I then decided to write letters to about ten more GCC pastors. I expressed to them my concern that Dr. Mohler was a Fellow of a UN-NGO.

I received a reply from one pastor, Rick Mclean, responding for all, who, putting himself in the position of God, told me that the information I’d given them regarding Dr. Mohler’s associations “was of no eternal consequence.” This pastor also told me to never contact them again regarding this matter. In November 2005, a member of GCC agreed to meet me for a discussion. His name was George. I had asked George during a phone conversation if he’d be willing to have a discussion with me concerning some things at GCC that I had found troubling.

Two days after agreeing to meet with me, I received an email from George informing me that our meeting couldn’t take place. He told me that after checking with his church’s authorities, those authorities had decided not to allow our meeting to take place. George also informed me that only one man at GCC would meet with me. This was the same pastor who had already written to tell me to never contact them again. The email that George sent me was cc’d or copied to this same pastor and George informed me that any future correspondence I might have with him would also be cc’d to this pastor. The GCC authorities were exercising strict control over this situation. If Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation was “of no eternal consequence” according to pastors at GCC, then why were they taking such extraordinary measures in order to prevent the exposure of that affiliation? Why were they willing to go to such lengths in order to keep knowledge of that affiliation hidden from their church membership?

George was not allowed to meet me for a discussion in a local coffee shop. In not allowing one Christian to meet another, the GCC authorities had taken authority not given them in the Word of God. In not allowing one Christian to meet another, the GCC authorities were exercising a type of control that is cult-like. Believing the GCC authority’s behavior to be deceitful, and knowing they didn’t want Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation exposed, I decided to do just that at their March 2006 Pastor’s Conference. With Dr. Mohler again invited to be a keynote speaker, I stood outside their church and handed out flyers to the arriving pastors. The flyer was titled “Al Mohler and the United Nations.”

The flyer basically contained 2 facts: Al Mohler was a Founding Fellow of the Research Institute (think tank) of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) and that the ERLC was a UN-NGO. How did the GCC officials respond to these flyers being handed out on the public sidewalk outside their church? A GCC pastor, Eric Bancroft, with the head of security in tow, approached me and angrily told me that my flyer contained “all lies”; he then warned me that if I was to set foot on GCC property, I’d be arrested.

When I left GCC that evening, some GCC officials followed me and with the head of security present, they photographed my car and wrote down my license plate number. What began as an effort to warn the saints at GCC about Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation didn’t end with my threatened arrest. The GCC authorities had tried to keep Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation hidden from their membership. I couldn’t help but wonder what else they may be hiding. “Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.”

So, I decided to take a closer look into their ministries. GCC has eight subministries listed on their website. Two of these subministries are singles ministries. In looking through these two ministry’s web pages, I began to notice the presence of certain “buzzwords” common to the Purpose Driven Church (PDC) model. I noticed that much of the language used to describe the activities of these ministries was identical to the language used in the PDC model. Being very familiar with both the “buzzwords” and structure of the PDC, I strongly suspected that these two ministries were run on that model. My suspicions were confirmed after I attended both of these ministry’s Friday night “Bible studies.”

It was then that I realized that the church growth movement (CGM)/PDC model had infiltrated GCC in at least their two singles ministries. Knowing that the PDC movement had already spread like wildfire across America’s churches and knowing that once this movement gets a foothold in a church it will spread like cancer throughout the entire church body, I knew that it was my Christian duty to warn the saints at GCC about this real danger within. In the summer of 2006, I wrote a letter intended for the Christian remnant at GCC in which I warned them of this dangerous church growth infiltration.

It was titled “A Wake Up Call to the Saints at Grace Community Church.” While standing on the sidewalk across the street, I handed out copies to the congregants as they left the church. I handed out this letter of warning for three consecutive Sundays. On the second Sunday, as I handed out the “Wake-up Call,” the police were called. A black and white unit stopped and an officer approached me and told me that they had received a call claiming that I was harassing the congregation. I was handing out my letter to Christians as they left the church. I never harassed anyone and no one had complained to me.

Why were the police called? On that same day, in what could be construed as another act of intimidation, a GCC official approached me and told me that the GCC authorities were considering a lawsuit against me. Since handing out this letter of warning, I have continued to look into the activities of various ministries at GCC and I have continued to find activity indicating the presence of the church growth movement. For example, I have seen that a GCC ministry called The Master’s Academy International (TMAI), which states that its mission is to “train church leaders worldwide,” is actually a church growth organization that is now partnering with foreign governments. (A goal of the church growth movement is to merge the church into a partnership with business and government. This is called Communitarianism.)

Later, I will describe both the leadership and the activities of TMAI in detail. Grace Community Church (GCC) [www.gracechurch.org], pastored by John MacArthur is being subverted and transformed by the church growth movement (CGM). This paper will give a description of the CGM, how it manifests itself at GCC, and how it has infiltrated GCC.

Contents
Introduction
Part I
What is the Church Growth Movement?
How the Church Growth Movement Manifests Itself at GCC (The Guild and The Foundry)
Part II
The Master’s Academy International (TMAI) Leadership
TMAI Leader’s Transformational Language
Part III
TMAI Training Centers
TMAI Brazil
TMAI Honduras
TMAI South Africa
TMAI New Zealand
TMAI Mexico
TMAI Russia
TMAI-Philippines
The TMAI Leadership Community
Part IV
The Money Trail-Who Finances TMAI
How the Church Growth Movement Infiltrated GCC
John Macarthur’s Ecumenical Roots

Please continue here: www.johnmacarthurexposed.blogspot.com/

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Elmarie A

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Thank you. I have made my point about all these doctrines and how I feel about it.

>>The Bible and the Holy Spirit as your interpreter is No.1 not John MacAuthur.<>But yes, we are not here to rip Calvinism apart to the point that people who read here think the entire doctrine is wrong, because it’s not. But there is a warning that times are a changing and that Calvinism is not going to remain biblical. In Rev. God calls us to come out of HER (Rome).<<

I second that.

Thomas Lessing

Hi Pieter,

Your namesake, Peter the apostle, was often led astray – not by the Holy Spirit but by his own Jewish tradition. In the same way Calvinism has become the traditional way of doing and thinking in the reformed churches and most people find it very difficult to discern its doctrinal errors. You may ask: Why didn’t the Holy Spirit warn me when I prayed to Him about the MacArthur Study Bible?

We Christians often expect the Holy Spirit to warn us in some kind of miraculous way while He very often uses the least in the body of Christ to sound a word of warning (1 Corinthians 12:20-25). If I were you I wouldn’t be too concerned about the study Bible. Read it prayerfully with a discerning mind and always test it against the Word of God. In that way you may learn more about the errors in Calvinism.

Thomas

Pieter

Thx Thomas and Debs, both of your explinations brought peace to me on this issue.

Grant C

Burning Lamp

You are missing the entire point of Elmarie’s posting regarding this issue. We should be in agreement that discerning between the nitty gritties of whether Calvinism is appropriate to our faith or not, or whether the heresies of Arminius are closer to scripture, or trying to split the heavy log of specific doctrines, formulate and force opinion of some kind of perfect belief system among ourselves is pathetic. These doctrinal beliefs are irrelevant to salvation and granting undue attention to such is contra-scriptural.

It is pathetic attempting to justify the fact that most of us spend unwarranted time on these petty issues. Precious time should be applied in discerning the seriously wayward teachers and religions which, by their inherent nature, doom millions of people. Such people as whom have never even read a Bible or heard anything resembling the Gospel of Jesus Christ. By keeping us thus occupied, Satan is again being ultra-successful in keeping Christians occupied with unimportant theological doctrine and minor mistakes. Our attempts herein, displaying varying degrees of theological intellect, while the plight of the majority of humanity are doomed to the eternal lake is neglected by our misdirected efforts. We feel safer and of great value to the Body, being more concerned with petty issues closer to home. These issues which are the Will of God, anyway! We cannot change the times, because certainly you will agree that times, at least were predetermined, but we can help take the Truth to those who need it.

Of course there is a need for discernment in instances where the powerful gift, such as given to precious Deborah, is greatly valued. She does an awesome job in pointing out mistakes and then backing her discernment up scripturally. Praise the Lord for these things. In addition, though, I am firmly convinced that we, as readers and contributors, should at least attempt to discern the totally lost, the completely undiscerning and those who are not with the guidance of Holy Spirit. Among many others, John MacArthur, you and I, certainly do not fall into this unfortunate group.

Let us thank the Almighty for all the wonderful things He has enabled people like MacArthur to do for His people. It is good to see his mistakes and make them public if needs be, but at the same time let us protect all that which is good, in mostly, solid teachers. What we are failing to do is balance the little mistakes of Christians with the glaring mistakes of the obviously evil who we do not seek out.

The New Age boys and girls, the exploits of which so many are well documented on this blog, are media driven and their public utterances are shamelessly obvious for all and sunder. Ditto all the other false preachers, prophets, pseudo-Christians, cults etc which come to our attention. The false miracle workers, preachers, prophets, occultists etc, the works of whom are not easily identified due to the obscurity of their operations, should receive our attention and command our time consuming efforts.

I find it inconsistent with our calling to spend even minutes, hours or days scrutinizing the MacArthurs of this world, when we should be seeking out the not so glaringly obvious. Or is it that we are a little scared to take on true evil when we know it will seriously bite us back.

Let us rely more fully on the guidance of the Holy Spirit in each of us in these matters and trust more fully on God to correct true believers. You correctly state that one mistake can lead to another, but let God do His work, He is surely powerful enough for this. Let us not put shots across the bow at our comrades in Christ. Let us use our Swords and Helmets and Full Armour to the best of our ability to take on the real enemy. Those of us who believe we have those powerful tools should know that we are fully protected from the little cups of coffee and confetti which can be thrown at us by the little men in the “church”. Will our skill in using them be good enough, however, if we take on the real enemy? Let some of us focus on trying that. Let some of us even try finding the real enemy first!

1 Timothy 1: 8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

and 2 Timothy 1: 7For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but [He has given us a spirit] of power and of love and of calm and well-balanced mind and discipline and self-control

also 2 Timothy 2: 23But refuse (shut your mind against, have nothing to do with) trifling (ill-informed, unedifying, stupid) controversies over ignorant questionings, for you know that they foster strife and breed quarrels.

I love you all dearly.

Thomas Lessing

“Those whose faith is genuine will prove their salvation is secure by persevering to the end in the way of righteousness.”

TRUE OR FALSE?

If we were able to prove that our salvation is SECURE by persevering in die way of righteousness, we wouldn’t have had any need of a Saviour. To what degree do we need to persevere in the way of righteousness in order to prove our salvation is SECURE – 50% – 59% – 60% – 89% – 99.99% or 100%? If you are able to secure your salvation to the degree of 99.99% you have already fallen short and if you are capable of doing it 100% . . . well then you can tell Jesus you don’t need Him.

What does Scripture teach us?
Philippians 1:3-6
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,
5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The word “epiteleo” (perform) means to bring to perfection that which the Master has begun to do in your life. He will bring it to perfection – not you. There is however something we need to do and that is to remain grounded IN Him (in his death and resurrection) in the VERY same way that He abides in us (John 15:4). HoW does He abide in us? Well, He promised that He would never forsake or leave us (Matthew 28:20).

Do I hear a few Hallelujahs???

Thomas Lessing

Grant says:

“It is pathetic attempting to justify the fact that most of us spend unwarranted time on these petty issues. Precious time should be applied in discerning the seriously wayward teachers and religions which, by their inherent nature, doom millions of people. Such people as whom have never even read a Bible or heard anything resembling the Gospel of Jesus Christ. By keeping us thus occupied, Satan is again being ultra-successful in keeping Christians occupied with unimportant theological doctrine and minor mistakes. Our attempts herein, displaying varying degrees of theological intellect, while the plight of the majority of humanity are doomed to the eternal lake is neglected by our misdirected efforts. We feel safer and of great value to the Body, being more concerned with petty issues closer to home. These issues which are the Will of God, anyway! We cannot change the times, because certainly you will agree that times, at least were predetermined, but we can help take the Truth to those who need it. . .

The New Age boys and girls, the exploits of which so many are well documented on this blog, are media driven and their public utterances are shamelessly obvious for all and sunder. Ditto all the other false preachers, prophets, pseudo-Christians, cults etc which come to our attention. The false miracle workers, preachers, prophets, occultists etc, the works of whom are not easily identified due to the obscurity of their operations, should receive our attention and command our time consuming efforts. . .

I find it inconsistent with our calling to spend even minutes, hours or days scrutinizing the MacArthurs of this world, when we should be seeking out the not so glaringly obvious. Or is it that we are a little scared to take on true evil when we know it will seriously bite us back”

Those who need the truth are often “Christians” who have been led astray for many years without ever having been aware that they are being led astray. I contend that there is more hope for someone who has never heard the Gospel to be saved than a person who thinks he is saved just because he believes he is one of the elect. What is the most horrendous thing that can happen to a person – to be led astray, full stop, or to be led astray and lead others astray as well? What did Jesus say? Well, let’s see now – Mark 9:42. In the sea? Why in the sea, Jesus? Because the sins of all those who have found forgiveness through His grace are cast into the depths of the sea, and the false teachers who lead others astray belong there as well.(Micah 7:19).

Paul never molly-coddled the false teachers and apostles and neither did he set his vizier on the New Agers of his time. He never beat around the bush and openly judged their “petty issues.” (Galatians 1:8). Would you say that the following “wisdom” is from above or from below?

“JOHN MACARTHUR: Well, the doctrine of election simply means that God, uninfluenced and before creation, predetermined certain people to be saved.”

(Apparently one needs to be a member of GCC in order to be liable for a predestined election)

Calvin’s doctrine of salvation for certain people is based entirely on the assumption that man has no free will, that he is as dead as a doornail and therefore unable to respond in faith to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the result being that only the elect need to be resurrected unto salvation. What utter, utter nonsense. This is in direct conflict with what the Holy Spirit teaches in Revelation 22: 17, “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Wow! did you hear that? “And whosoever will . . .” Ah! but in the Calvinists’ dictionary of words the word “whosoever” has a completely different meaning than the one we poor reprobates know.

I have debated many Calvinists on the internet for many, many years and never has a single one of them ever given me a satisfactory explanation of the meaning of Revelation 22:17. Why? because they stubbornly refuse to believe that man has a free will and can either take the living water by faith or reject it. Do you really think the Holy Spirit would extend such a profound invitation to “whosoever” if He knew that He was going to regenerate only a few chosen elect from fallen mankind in any case? Calvinism is really a dumb doctrine.

Thomas Lessing

Deborah, please fix my blockquotes. How do you do it?

[EDITED: To make blockquotes: < blockquote> writing in quotes < /blockquote> I fixed your other one]
make sure there are no spaces in the code. I used spaces so the code would show up as text

Grant C

I had a really long song written down here, questioning the current train of thought, not that I have ever been an avid supporter of MacArthur, though. Was about to hit the submit comment button, but then decided it was exactly contrary to what I spoke about in my earlier posting today. I must refrain from expanding on the issue, even though I cannot agree with or understand the confusion created by Thomas’ take on the piece under discussion. The piece certainly does not lend itself to the question of “how righteous” we should try to be. The security is in Jesus Christ and will persevere, surely until the end. If it were not so, then the contrary question is how much did the death and resurrection of Jesus contribute to our salvation at the end, 50%, 60%, 83% and so on. Believing this indicates that one crucifixion of Jesus was insufficient and that, even though we try our bestest, we are never sure of our salvation. It is then simply left to chance, works and the luck of the draw as such.

More love to all.

Thomas Lessing

Hi Deborah

I posted two comments which just went missing. Any idea what happened?

DTW: I think I was messin with em hehe

Burning Lamp

Grant, grace and peace to you brother, but you misunderstand my point. Deborah gave Thomas L. permission to “go there” on this thread. Here is a partial quote from his first post:

I’m no prophet, but some years ago I predicted that Calvinism would join the broad stream called “emergent” or “emerging.” I based my prediction on 2 Thess. 2: 10 and 11: “because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.”

“Do Calvinists believe in salvation? Yep, they do but their salvation is based entirely on predestination and election and not faith and repentance on the part of the predestined sinners”
(End of quote.)

This is not a Calvinism vs Armenian debate. Neither extreme is correct. The fact that MacArthur is astray in his Calvinism is directly linked to the other errors. This is the case with any error that is entertained. It leads to other error. You know, the leaven and the loaf. And if we are to believe Bob’s research and experience there appears to be a circle of the wagons mentality.

So, dear brother, methinks you are the one who misunderstands. I say this respectfully and humbly and with conviction.

The false teaching of Calvinism is germane to the discussion here. This is absolutely not a lynching of MacArthur as I have been accused of doing. I have always shied away from him despite the fact he has many sound teachings. I have never adhered to the “chew the meat and spit out the bones” mentality. To quote the great Bible expositor, H.A. Ironside, “Truth mixed with error is equivalent to all error, except that it is more innocent looking and, therefore, more dangerous. God hates such a mixture! Any error, or any truth-and-error mixture, calls for definite exposure and repudiation. To condone such is to be unfaithful to God and His Word and treacherous to imperiled souls for whom Christ died.”

Burning Lamp

P.S. Grant and Elmarie, exposing error is not about attacking an individual. Only God has the right to judge any person’s heart and motives. That will all be revealed in due time for all of us. That behooves us all to examine our own motives and hearts.
The bottom line is defending God’s truth. That is for the benefit of the Body we call the Church. It is also for the benefit of the one who has fallen into error. The motive for doing so should always be love – love for the Lord and love for his truth and love for the precious sheeple of His flock. AND only wanting the one deceived to come out of that and be restored. There are many wolves ravaging the sheep and so few who are issuing warnings with the right motivation. Those who do so with the right motivation are often falsely accused and even hated. So has been the historical record of the Church. But those like Deborah press on at all costs because it is the Divine calling.

Thomas Lessing

“The New age boys . . . seriously bite us back” must be in blockquotes together with the previous.

Thanks

[EDITED: done]

Grant C

Thomas

Calvin’s doctrine of salvation for certain people is based entirely on the assumption that man has no free will, that he is as dead as a doornail and therefore unable to respond in faith to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the result being that only the elect need to be resurrected unto salvation. What utter, utter nonsense. This is in direct conflict with what the Holy Spirit teaches in Revelation 22: 17, “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Wow! did you hear that? “And whosoever will . . .” Ah! but in the Calvinists’ dictionary of words the word “whosoever” has a completely different meaning than the one we poor reprobates know.

I have debated many Calvinists on the internet for many, many years and never has a single one of them ever given me a satisfactory explanation of the meaning of Revelation 22:17. Why? because they stubbornly refuse to believe that man has a free will and can either take the living water by faith or reject it. Do you really think the Holy Spirit would extend such a profound invitation to “whosoever” if He knew that He was going to regenerate only a few chosen elect from fallen mankind in any case? Calvinism is really a dumb doctrine.

This is exactly what I was referring to: a long-winded attack on theological doctrine, which has little relevance to salvation, but certainly saps away at valuable energy and time. I repeat 2 Timothy 2:23. All the while Satan’s grin gets wider and wider because of the foolish futility thereof. While accepting the free will of man, we must make every effort to ensure that we do not underestimate the will of God and overestimate the range of that free will given to man.

Awhile ago we spent fellowship time with a community of farmworkers and illegal immigrants at a small informal church in a barn in the bush. On the weekend past, a friend was invited to give his testimony at a church in the industrial black township of Garangkuwa. The combined income of the 80, or so, worshippers present at both meetings together, was probably less than my very moderate income.

Their hunger and thirst for the Word and simplicity of faith was a reminder of where we should be. Not to mention their hugely surprising knowledge of scripture. Among them were those who are illiterate, and so close to our Lord. Simple faith as I rarely see in our city churches. They would certainly not have any idea of doctrinal differences, and could not afford to spend two minutes debating the pettiness thereof. They are fortunate representatives of many millions of lost family members, such as of whom I wrote in my previous posting.

How can they be in a better place when they have nothing, literally, and are being targeted by all evil religions relentlessly. Their local religions and our exotic religions (wrongly presented to them) included. Please let us not be silly about our faith and our calling. Let us not be under any delusions regarding our tasks, even though we are humanly prone to boasting and pride. We are so fortunate to be known by God, but we forget the reality and fragility of ourselves. God will not let any of His children fall completely, this I assure you. He might just get a little annoyed when we spend His precious time engrossed in futile attempts at correcting the almost correct. Which none of us are; and others are lost due to our misdirected efforts and incorrect application of that which is temporarily ours. Have greater faith.

More love to all.

Thomas Lessing

This is exactly what I was referring to: a long-winded attack on theological doctrine, which has little relevance to salvation, but certainly saps away at valuable energy and time.

You seem to think that biblical salvation is not a doctrine and that election is not a salvivic doctrine opposed to that of the biblical doctrine of salvation. I can assure you that the doctrine of election/predestination has everything to do with salvation, but it is a false salvation.

Our calling is to preach the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ (not of Calvin or anyone else) so that lost souls may be saved and also to contend for the faith that was once delivered to us by the apostles. Anything short of this is downright disobedience to Jesus Christ.

Ok Grant, what is the will of God which you seem to think I am undermining? Could you give it to us in one sentence?

PS. Revelation 22:17 has little relevance to salvation? Come on!

Bob,

Deborah,

I don’t follow the Book of Enoch.

On my website I post an interview Macarthur gives in which he states that he can’t recall his conversion to Christ and that “it doesn’t bother him.”
http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur-Phil-Johnson-non-conversion-statement.html

Why would this man not be bothered by having no recollection of the day he was converted to Christ? Possibly because of Calvinism. If he has been predestined and elected, then why would he care if he can’t recall his conversion?

Bloomie

Hello Debra,

I have cried soo many tears….that I often feel like I am going to drown in it’s flow. Recently, it appears to be a shift in just ordinary Bible believing christians,who read their Bibles and believes what it says with the illumination of the Holy Ghost.In its place there are spoon fed christians who could only be this off course with the help of a theologian.

In 2006 I got radically saved. I began reading my Bible night and day , it was a hunger for the word that was insatiable , and the word of GOD transformed my life and is alive and active in me to this day.

Imagine, as a new christian being invited to participate in a Bible study at a church and feeling like; I would have to be in a back slidden state to have proper fellowship with the group. The Bible study was filled with error without any discernment…When I mentioned it privately to the facilitator, she thought it best to “concentrate on the positives”

I am currently not a member of a Church and have visited several…This is usuallly when I cry the most…Almost, all of the people I know attend church and are professing christians, it’s only in speaking with them that you realize they have a secular world view, dont believe parts of the Bible and a variety of other un-biblical views

Recently, when I was asked by a new friend to attend her church I asked her if her Church “taught from the Bible”…she actually paused for a while, and responded, NO, but the fellowship with the other christian women was what she needed. YES, I began to cry.(not to her face)

Currently,I study the Bible and watch christian television…However, the more I study the word many of these preachers are now in my red or yellow zone and yes when it’s first discovered ,I usually cry. I have been praying and asking God to help me to continue to discern the truth. Many of my friends have told me that I have helped them to begin reading their Bibles again. My problem is ;I would like to attend a Church ,but have not found a solid one yet…

Last week I had two of my Christians friends over for brunch. I had not seen them for three years. During our conversation we talked about Church. They both invited me to attend their church….but subsequently, as the conversation continued as they were about to leave they said something that had the fragrance of TULIP… UNTIL several months ago I didn’t really know that term or anyone who believed that. But by mistake, I ordered a CD that I thought was about Replacement Theology but instead its about Reformed Theology. I don’t think this was a coincident. I mentioned this to my friends and we are planning to listen to the CD togather when it’s returned to me from another friend,which is another interesting story in itself.

The fact that I ordered this CD by mistake was no mistake at all. Needless to say , I have been crying since my friends invited me to church.

Debra, could you recommend any Leaven Free ministries or study materials.I often feel like i’m in the minority because I have developed a Biblical world view about everything. I trust the indwelling Holy Spirit and it’s awesome. Continue the great work.

Thomas Lessing

Hi Bloomie.

Debra, could you recommend any Leaven Free ministries or study materials.

A good place to start on the internet is http://www.thebereancall.org and http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com

Bob,

Bloomie,

Can I make a suggestion? Read Matthew Henry’s commentaries. You can but it in many bookstores.

Bob,

Deborah,

I’m glad you said that you are a sinner and always will be because so am I. What also bothers me greatly about Macarthur is that he teaches that a Christian has no sin nature–that a Christian only has a Christ nature. I don’t see how any Christian wouldn’t be acutely aware of his sin nature. And I don’t know how a Christian could ever say that he doesn’t have a sin nature.

Bob,

I agree Deborah. I think it’s 1 John that says we have no need of a human teacher. The problem today is that Christians are afraid to tell the truth because they care about what others think and feel about them. The only sin in the churches today seems to be social sin. They fear man more than God. And they all ask, “What about me?” They haven’t counted the cost. The cost to speak truth boldly is too high and so they self-edit and they surveille any situation they are in to assess how much truth can be told without getting themselves in trouble.

Mark Penrith

Hi Bob,

“I think it’s 1 John that says we have no need of a human teacher.” What about Ephesians 4? The local church is more than just teachers (although it is that too isn’t it?).

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