John MacArthur – Transformation of Grace Community Church

John MacArthurThis information has been painstakingly put together by Bob Johnson over a period of several years.  It’s shocking and I believe it’s the truth. Bob has been attacked by John MacArthur and Phil Johnson who have tried to discredit him, but the facts remain standing strong.

I am going to present this information only because I stand for the truth AT ALL COSTS.  [Edited by DTW: 31 Mar 2010 – I have made a public apology too everyone I told that MacArthur is legitimate.   I am very very sorry for this. I trusted MacArthur and I was deceived and I led others to believe he was ok. Every bit of credibility I gave John MacArthur I retract.  I did not understand the doctrine of Calvinism at the time, now I do.  Please see here for my sincerest apology: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/30/what-do-you-do-when]

Now before anyone gets all carried away, I am not a Calvinist.  I am a born again Christian and my ‘denomination’ is what lies between the pages of the Word of God.  I believe in free will and I believe that repentance of sin is an ongoing essential part of your relationship with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. We are not predestined, or elected by God before the foundation of the world (for biblical predestination understanding please see What it Really Means to be Elected, Chosen, and Predestinated – The Biblical Truth);   I won’t even get onto the topic of John Calvin as that’s another story all on it’s own and Calvinism has it’s roots in Rome.

Are there people who are genuinely saved under GCC – Absolutely, when they find out the truth as to what Calvinism is all about, they will leave there sooner or later.  God knows our hearts.  He knows what we think, He knows what we believe, He knows everything about us.  I believe we are all judged on what we know up to a certain point in time.  (I am NOT talking about sin here, or using this as an excuse to say, “oh I never accepted Jesus, because I didn’t know anything, or no one told me.)  Because the Bible commands you to study to find yourself approved anyhow, so no one has any excuse.  And if you have the Holy Spirit in your life you will never get something so wrong or believe and follow something so wrong as the doctrine of Calvinism and the fruit of John MacArthur speaks for itself.Now when the Holy Spirit reveals to us what’s really going on behind the scenes, this is when we are now faced with a massive decision of “should I stay or should I go” – will you accept the false teachings that are slithering its way in, or will I stand firm on the Word of God and warn others about what is happening and get out because you will not tolerate men insulting Jesus Christ! When the Holy Spirit has warned you, you can’t ever say to Jesus one day, “I didn’t know”, because you did know, but you CHOSE (free will) TO IGNORE IT.  And in doing so you continued to stay and support ungodly doctrines.

Even if John MacArthur carried on preaching what sounded like the greatest gospel from the pulpit (which we know is not because it’s Calvinistic) – he will slowly but surely lead his congregation astray more and more astray as he turns to Rome along with every other denomination in these end times.

Will his preaching start to change?  Will it become a more emergent gospel?  It appears has as he is embracing contemplative spirituality for some time:  John MacArthur and Dallas Willard – Two Contemplating Calvinists

Does John MacArthur have to make a choice like the rest of us to follow Jesus Christ 100% or follow Satan instead? Absolutely.

We ALL sit in the same position. Jesus Christ is LORD, He is our KING, He judges ALL, NO ONE gets an ‘immunity card’ from GOD.

Ok let’s get onto the info shall we…

—————–

The Transformation of John Macarthur’s Grace Community Church

How Change Agents are Transitioning GCC into the New World Order

Introduction  –

by Bob Johnson On January 2, 2005,

John MacArthur gave a sermon to his congregation in which he described the state of his church. In that sermon John MacArthur stated, “I feel like part of the ministry I must discharge before the Lord and you is a ministry of warning about danger. Our church is not in particular danger from some dominating iniquity. It is not in particular danger from some infiltrating heresy. It is not in danger from some loss of resources financially or human. Everything you can see on the surface looks to be good. And we would have every reason to think we stand, and still be on the brink of a fall.”

John MacArthur said that his church was not in particular danger from infiltrating heresy. This paper will show that a dangerous heresy has infiltrated his church; a heresy known generally as the church growth movement. And this paper will show that this movement, being backed by globalists and being used to fulfill their one-world agenda, is now manipulating GCC into that same agenda.

John MacArthur said that his church is not in danger from some dominating iniquity.This paper will show that John MacArthur, being the dominant figure in his church, by disobeying the doctrine of separation, has allowed men to speak at his church and has allowed men to occupy leadership positions in his church, who, professing to be Christians, are actually dedicated to this one-world agenda.

John MacArthur  said that everything you can see on the surface of his church looks to be good. I have been to his church, and I have attended his ministries, and I didn’t have to look beyond the surface to see that everything there is not good. I didn’t have to look beyond the surface of his church in order to see the presence of the Purpose Driven Church (PDC) model or the dialectic sessions employed by that model.

Nor did I have to look beyond the surface to see that John MacArthur’s international ministry, a ministry dedicated to “training church leaders worldwide,” is a church growth organization now partnering with foreign governments.In his “state of the church” sermon, John Macarthur said that GCC could be on the brink of a fall. GCC has gone beyond that brink and has now fallen. GCC is not holy, peculiar, sanctified and set apart, but rather, is a church that has now found common ground with Satanic agents pushing the one-world agenda via the church growth movement.

Allow me, by way of introduction, to say how I became interested in the goings on at GCC. My interest in GCC began in March 2005 when a local pastor invited me to accompany him to the GCC Pastor’s Conference being held that same month. Wanting to get information about the conference, I went to the GCC website where I noticed that Dr. Albert Mohler was to be a keynote speaker. I’d never heard of Dr. Mohler.

When curiosity pressed and an internet search ended, I had discovered information about Dr. Mohler that was not in accord with his Christian profession. I had discovered that Dr. Mohler was a Founding Fellow of the “think tank” of a UN-NGO. I had discovered that a UN-NGO is a non-governmental organization that is listed with the UN and that serves the UN and its one-world agenda. And therefore, I concluded that it must necessarily follow, that Dr. Mohler, being a Founding Fellow of this UN-NGO’s “think tank” which serves the UN and its agenda, must also serve the UN agenda. (It has since been confirmed to me by a colleague of Dr. Mohler’s that all the Fellows of the “think tank” of this UN-NGO are dedicated to the principles of the charter of the UN).

Knowing that the UN agenda is satanic and knowing that this agenda includes the destruction of Biblical Christianity, I wondered why John Macarthur would invite a man dedicated to this agenda into his church and into his pulpit. Was John Macarthur aware of Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation? (I have since learned that Dr. Mohler holds leadership positions in at least two organizations that serve the UN globalist agenda as NGO’s.)

I proceeded to write a letter to each of the members of the GCC elder board. I warned them all of Dr. Mohler’s associations. I received a reply from elder, Phil Johnson, dated March 23, 2005. Regarding Dr. Mohler’s associations, Mr. Johnson wrote, “We may not agree with all his associations, but nothing in Scripture demands that we separate from a true brother in Christ just because we may disagree with him on where he draws the circle of his own fellowship.” Is this a true statement? Is there nothing in Scripture that demands separation from a professed Christian who is affiliated with satanic evil (the UN)? Many verses in Scripture demand that Christians separate from evil and 2 Thess. 3:14 demands separation from professed Christians who are disobedient: “And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him that he may be ashamed.” Scripture does demand separation from Dr. Mohler.

Why didn’t the GCC elders seem to be alarmed by Dr. Mohler’s affiliations? Why were they willing to ignore Biblical commands in order to continue a relationship with Dr. Mohler? Being dissatisfied with the reply I’d received from the GCC elder board, I then decided to make phone calls to several other GCC pastors in order to inform them of Dr. Mohler’s UN connection. Surely, they would all be concerned. I told them all that Dr. Mohler was a Fellow of a UN-NGO. What was their response? The pastors all angrily denied this easily verifiable fact. I then decided to write letters to about ten more GCC pastors. I expressed to them my concern that Dr. Mohler was a Fellow of a UN-NGO.

I received a reply from one pastor, Rick Mclean, responding for all, who, putting himself in the position of God, told me that the information I’d given them regarding Dr. Mohler’s associations “was of no eternal consequence.” This pastor also told me to never contact them again regarding this matter. In November 2005, a member of GCC agreed to meet me for a discussion. His name was George. I had asked George during a phone conversation if he’d be willing to have a discussion with me concerning some things at GCC that I had found troubling.

Two days after agreeing to meet with me, I received an email from George informing me that our meeting couldn’t take place. He told me that after checking with his church’s authorities, those authorities had decided not to allow our meeting to take place. George also informed me that only one man at GCC would meet with me. This was the same pastor who had already written to tell me to never contact them again. The email that George sent me was cc’d or copied to this same pastor and George informed me that any future correspondence I might have with him would also be cc’d to this pastor. The GCC authorities were exercising strict control over this situation. If Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation was “of no eternal consequence” according to pastors at GCC, then why were they taking such extraordinary measures in order to prevent the exposure of that affiliation? Why were they willing to go to such lengths in order to keep knowledge of that affiliation hidden from their church membership?

George was not allowed to meet me for a discussion in a local coffee shop. In not allowing one Christian to meet another, the GCC authorities had taken authority not given them in the Word of God. In not allowing one Christian to meet another, the GCC authorities were exercising a type of control that is cult-like. Believing the GCC authority’s behavior to be deceitful, and knowing they didn’t want Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation exposed, I decided to do just that at their March 2006 Pastor’s Conference. With Dr. Mohler again invited to be a keynote speaker, I stood outside their church and handed out flyers to the arriving pastors. The flyer was titled “Al Mohler and the United Nations.”

The flyer basically contained 2 facts: Al Mohler was a Founding Fellow of the Research Institute (think tank) of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) and that the ERLC was a UN-NGO. How did the GCC officials respond to these flyers being handed out on the public sidewalk outside their church? A GCC pastor, Eric Bancroft, with the head of security in tow, approached me and angrily told me that my flyer contained “all lies”; he then warned me that if I was to set foot on GCC property, I’d be arrested.

When I left GCC that evening, some GCC officials followed me and with the head of security present, they photographed my car and wrote down my license plate number. What began as an effort to warn the saints at GCC about Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation didn’t end with my threatened arrest. The GCC authorities had tried to keep Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation hidden from their membership. I couldn’t help but wonder what else they may be hiding. “Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.”

So, I decided to take a closer look into their ministries. GCC has eight subministries listed on their website. Two of these subministries are singles ministries. In looking through these two ministry’s web pages, I began to notice the presence of certain “buzzwords” common to the Purpose Driven Church (PDC) model. I noticed that much of the language used to describe the activities of these ministries was identical to the language used in the PDC model. Being very familiar with both the “buzzwords” and structure of the PDC, I strongly suspected that these two ministries were run on that model. My suspicions were confirmed after I attended both of these ministry’s Friday night “Bible studies.”

It was then that I realized that the church growth movement (CGM)/PDC model had infiltrated GCC in at least their two singles ministries. Knowing that the PDC movement had already spread like wildfire across America’s churches and knowing that once this movement gets a foothold in a church it will spread like cancer throughout the entire church body, I knew that it was my Christian duty to warn the saints at GCC about this real danger within. In the summer of 2006, I wrote a letter intended for the Christian remnant at GCC in which I warned them of this dangerous church growth infiltration.

It was titled “A Wake Up Call to the Saints at Grace Community Church.” While standing on the sidewalk across the street, I handed out copies to the congregants as they left the church. I handed out this letter of warning for three consecutive Sundays. On the second Sunday, as I handed out the “Wake-up Call,” the police were called. A black and white unit stopped and an officer approached me and told me that they had received a call claiming that I was harassing the congregation. I was handing out my letter to Christians as they left the church. I never harassed anyone and no one had complained to me.

Why were the police called? On that same day, in what could be construed as another act of intimidation, a GCC official approached me and told me that the GCC authorities were considering a lawsuit against me. Since handing out this letter of warning, I have continued to look into the activities of various ministries at GCC and I have continued to find activity indicating the presence of the church growth movement. For example, I have seen that a GCC ministry called The Master’s Academy International (TMAI), which states that its mission is to “train church leaders worldwide,” is actually a church growth organization that is now partnering with foreign governments. (A goal of the church growth movement is to merge the church into a partnership with business and government. This is called Communitarianism.)

Later, I will describe both the leadership and the activities of TMAI in detail. Grace Community Church (GCC) [www.gracechurch.org], pastored by John MacArthur is being subverted and transformed by the church growth movement (CGM). This paper will give a description of the CGM, how it manifests itself at GCC, and how it has infiltrated GCC.

Contents
Introduction
Part I
What is the Church Growth Movement?
How the Church Growth Movement Manifests Itself at GCC (The Guild and The Foundry)
Part II
The Master’s Academy International (TMAI) Leadership
TMAI Leader’s Transformational Language
Part III
TMAI Training Centers
TMAI Brazil
TMAI Honduras
TMAI South Africa
TMAI New Zealand
TMAI Mexico
TMAI Russia
TMAI-Philippines
The TMAI Leadership Community
Part IV
The Money Trail-Who Finances TMAI
How the Church Growth Movement Infiltrated GCC
John Macarthur’s Ecumenical Roots

Please continue here: www.johnmacarthurexposed.blogspot.com/

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Burning Lamp

Deborah, Bob commented on the other thread about DFish and denied any involvement w/him.

ps–I know about D Fish. He rebuked me because I once addressed members of Grace Church as “Saints” and he assured me that there couldn’t be any true Christians there.

Burning Lamp

Hey Deborah,

You are doing a great job – I don’t see how you do it – it seems a new discernment issue pops up every hour! Thanks for all your hard work – I know you do it for the LORD, but you are appreciated. Thanks for your willingness to be obedient to the LORD at any cost.

Jean

Yep, this is truly very sad. I always pray that John would stay standing in his Gospel-hostile-country and not “fold” to the ways of the worldly church… Sigh…

Father, I pray that you will have mercy on this man, like you have on me, and open his eyes to this “trap” that Satan is leading him into. AMEN

Erna

I got into John MacArthur’s books on Hebrew-thought it to be well writen, until I saw some strange doctrines in it. We really have to be very careful to who we listen or what we read. I came to realise how the Bible is the only authority and I have to read it for myself. The Holy Spirit teaches me.
Deborah, you are really taking on the world of lies and unbiblical doctrines. Good for you. May the Lord grant you the strenght to keep fighting the good fight.

Mark Penrith

What were the “strange doctrines” Erna?

Burning Lamp

The only books I feel comfortable recommending these days is by one of my very favorite “dead guys”. If they were solid while they were alive, they can’t fall away!

I have been collecting all of H.A. Ironside’s commentaries. They are now being made available online and a number of them are in paperback for about $3! I read the Word first and then use his commentary as a companion. I truly believe the Lord gifted him as one of the finest expositors of our time – he passed away over 50 years ago but his writings are timeless. I would recommend his books to anyone. He has one about salvation called “Full Assurance”. Some of his messages are online and are public domain. He was premill, and his doctrine was rock solid. Hope this blesses someone.

Bob,

Deborah,

Thanks very much for posting this about Macarthur. I appreciate your willingness to seek the truth objectively. Please feel free to ask me any questions or to make comments. I’ll reply as best as I can.

I can tell you that Al Mohler did speak at John Macarthur’s Pastors Conference last week. So Macarthur was probably not pressured too much, if at all, by his congregation (most of whom are spiritually blind) over Mohler signing the Manhattan Declaration. I have an article about the Manhattan Declaration on The Watchman Wakes.
http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/The-Manhattan-Declaration.html

I was going to attend Macarthur’s pastor’s conference 4 years ago to ask Mohler questions about his UN connections, but I was told that the questions wouldn’t be allowed because all questions would be pre-screened.

John Macarthur’s father was involved at the pinnacle of the world’s ecumenical movement and so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising to see that his son has continued to build bridges at the expense of truth and biblical doctrine.

Bob Johnson

[Edited: Since posting this article on John MacArthur from Bob’s Johnsons’ research it has come to light that he is affiliated with the website called watch. pair. com who hold onto some very strange beliefs: Nephilim, aliens, Serpent Seed teaching and just enough anti-Semitic vibes to cause the alarm bells to go off loudly. The FACTUAL information that Bob has provided on John MacArthur served it’s purpose, but that is where it ends. I never have and never will associate myself with watch. pair. com. I have also requested Bob remove my website link from his website. Thank you]

Thomas Lessing

I’m no prophet, but some years ago I predicted that Calvinism would join the broad stream called “emergent” or “emerging.” I based my prediction on 2 Thess. 2: 10 and 11: “because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.”

Do Calvinists believe in salvation? Yep, they do but their salvation is based entirely on predestination and election and not faith and repentance on the part of the predestined sinners. They are dead in their trespasses and sins and therefore completely inept to understand the Gospel, according to the Calvinists. They first need to be regenerated as a sovereign act of God (monergism) before they can receive faith as a gift from God. Then alone are they saved. Faith is not a prerequisite or precondition for salvation but the result of the monergistic salvation of God. And of course, predestined salvation is the privilege of the elect only; the poor and wretched reprobates have no hope of ever being saved because they have been predestined for hell even before the foundation of the earth.

As soon as you begin to tamper with God’s doctrine of salvation, you become a good candidate for the delusion God sends so that you may believe the lie. What are the Calvinists beginning to do? They are starting to believe lies. Yes! they use the very same terminology we find in the Bible: salvation, sanctification, crucifixion, forgiveness of sins, resurrection, ascension, Second Coming of Christ, etc. but the application, especially of salvation and sanctification, is completely at variance with the Word of God.

Eddy Carter-Smith

Remeber we were once “fooled”and the “Spirit of the Lord” brought us direct revelation,this is why we are this side looking in.JmcA has a habit of taking a stand on spritual matters only to have to come back later re-visit his writting and then he apologises and makes the correction – I hope and pray that this will not be an eception.It may take a little time,remember how many got caught up with the “Toronto’blessing,many are repenting now years later,I am none the less grieved in my spirit as i Have believed JmcA to be one of the few great teachers,But Bob u have done the right thing bringing this to our attention ,Debs u 2.I say JMcA will eventually retire from Gcc and some young air head will take over….It happened at our Roodepoort assmbly–Keep up the good work.

Eddy Carter-Smith

Pheww i have Just gone and looked at Bobs detailed writting….OK no more listning to JmcA sermons finished gone buy….!

louise

Thank u for this article. I found it most interesting. I have always found Johns teaching such a blessing and very solid. I can only say, yes we are in the end time.
Thank you for the time you have spent with this site. I and my hubby enjoy all peoples view points as I am very aware the attack of the body of Christ will come from within.

Burning Lamp

Thomas L. you have hit the nail on the head. The doctrine of Calvinism strikes at the very heart of the Christian faith – one of the “essentials”. You are so right – it opens the door for further delusion. Take Al Mohler, a Calvinist and a Southern Baptist and leading others in that direction. Mark Driscoll is a fountain of mixture of truth and error. He denounced The Shack but he embraces emergents, says it is a sin NOT to drink alcoholic beverages, has a potty mouth, etc. R.C. Sproul is a preterist. These Calvinist types hang with each other despite their differences because the Calvinist belief is the glue that holds them together. Paul Washer who many respect for his strong messages is Calvinist. When you examine the beliefs they fail the biblical standard just as Thomas explains.

Voddie Bachman and others are leaders in what is called the Family Integration concept of church worship and family governance. This is popular among homeschoolers.It is cult-like in its control aspects. It hooks people who are sick of the decline in the culture and the apostasy in the church and are grasping at straws. It is a trap. Bachman is a staunch Calvinist mixing truth and error. This not to judge the hearts of these men or their motives as only God can do that, but we are called to examine and test by the Scriptures. We should also pray for them to come to their senses. It seems the Calvinism is the root cause.
Thanks Thomas L. for spelling it out so clearly!

You will find that many of the ministries to Roman Catholics are led by Calvinists. They are strong on the Reformation – but that zeal, as correct as it is, with another false Gospel. So ironic!

Calvinists like to use Spurgeon as their poster boy, but one can wonder if he would find much basis for fellowship with those who so admire him.

MacArthur could be described as a “soft” Calvinist as he tones down his beliefs to reach a broader audience. He has even written that children under the age of accountability will go to heaven. Obviously this is in conflict with Calvinist doctrine. So he is a conflicted and what the Bible calls a double-minded man.

There is much here to consider and pray about. We must be ever cautious about setting up any human being as an idol/icon because giving them that status stops all testing of the spirits.

cecilia

just to refresh: DTW done this article:
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?s=The-Manhattan-Declaration

Elmarie A

People

We must realize that man will always be fallible. The church is fallible. We must keep this close to our hearts and we can only pray for those who fall or stray. Only God, His Son Jesus , the Holy Spirit and the Word of God ARE INFALLIBLE.

This does not mean we must now turn our backs on our Christian brothers and sisters whose teachings might have met with misfortune or undue evil influence, we must pray for them if all else fails and keep on praying. We must constantly trust in the Holy Spirit within us when we read any other teaching apart from the Bible the Word of God. The conviction within us will very quickly show us when we are busy with the wrong book in our quest for more information. If we do not have this conviction, unfortunately then we are not being assisted by the Holy Spirit.

I do believe that John MacArthur is more Biblically sound and accurate in his teachings than most, if not all, of the other false teachers we have been confronted with on these like sites.

Christianity might be better off ascertaining the names of those other thousands of false preachers who are leading astray millions of lost sheep all over Asia, South America and Africa. These false wolves do so in the Name of our Lord, in obscurity, because they do not have the scrutiny of media watching them.

Pointing out the really tiny (and usually doctrinal, not pertaining to salvation) mistakes made by preachers like John MacArthur seems to pale into total insignificance when compared to the atrocities being committed by the unnamed thousands of false preachers targeting congregations, far exceeding in number, those of prominent western personalities.

The billions of dollars being leeched off the seriously spiritually poor and physically needy in these instances is abominable to say the least. Their cause would be well served if we were to direct our energies toward their predicament and their salvation, identifying the forest of logs they have to deal with in their fraudulent “evangelists”, rather than pointing out the splinter in preachers like MacArthur et al.

Burning Lamp

El Marie,

Please read Thomas L.’s post again. Calvinism goes against the essentials of the faith. It says that Jesus did not die for everyone and that God chooses some to go to hell and some to go to heaven and man has nothing to do with it. That is for starters. This is such an insidious doctrine and just because it appears more “biblical” than other more flagrant and flamboyant teachers, that makes it all the more dangerous. Many a faith have been shipwrecked due to this doctrine. John MacArthur plays the moral and the discernment card but he stops short of separation such as when he wrote “Fools Gold”. His biblical teachings serve as a cloak for the less obvious. And now Bob has unearthed some behind the scenes stuff that is disturbing. One error leads to another.

Elmarie A

Burning Lamp

>>This is such an insidious doctrine and just because it appears more “biblical” than other more flagrant and flamboyant teachers, that makes it all the more dangerous< < This article was not posted to pull the doctrines of Calvinism and Arminianism apart. Deborah clearly states her reason for posting this info. >>I am putting this info up because I want YOU to make a decision as to what is going on here. And I want Bob to come and discuss with us in the open his findings. This is not going to be a ‘lynch Bob session’ or ’lynch GCC session’ either This is going to be a find the truth discussion, based on FACTS – not just for me, but for everyone. << You are Lynching here Burning Lamp. My doctrine is the Word of God the Bible. I'm very aware of the dangers of the Man written doctrines. Is it not part of the plan God has for us, by testing our faith. I believe the man written doctrines was just to control man by man. There is no sound doctrine ever written by man and I repeat the Bible is my only doctrine I need. Matthew 15:6-14 (Amplified Bible) 6So for the sake of your tradition (the rules handed down by your forefathers), you have set aside the Word of God [depriving it of force and authority and making it of no effect].7You pretenders (hypocrites)! Admirably and truly did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said:8These people draw near Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts hold off and are far away from Me.9Uselessly do they worship Me, for they teach as doctrines the commands of men.(B)10And Jesus called the people to Him and said to them, Listen and grasp and comprehend this:11It is not what goes into the mouth of a man that makes him unclean and defiled, but what comes out of the mouth; this makes a man unclean and defiles [him].12Then the disciples came and said to Him, Do You know that the Pharisees were displeased and offended and indignant when they heard this saying? 13He answered, Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be torn up by the roots.(C) 14Let them alone and disregard them; they are blind guides and teachers. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a ditch. Mark 7:5-7 (Amplified Bible) 5And the Pharisees and scribes kept asking [Jesus], Why do Your disciples not order their way of living according to the tradition handed down by the forefathers [to be observed], but eat with hands unwashed and ceremonially not purified? 6But He said to them, Excellently and truly [[e]so that there will be no room for blame] did Isaiah prophesy of you, the pretenders and hypocrites, as it stands written: These people [constantly] honor Me with their lips, but their hearts hold off and are far distant from Me.7In vain (fruitlessly and without profit) do they worship Me, ordering and teaching [to be obeyed] as doctrines the commandments and precepts of men.(A) Burning Lamp you are missing my point I made read again please and try and understand what I am saying. There is no point in closing in on John MacArthur like a pack and pulling him apart. You seem to be wanting to be the pack leader here. It seems clearly to me this is what you, yourself are doing here. I do not want to discuss doctrines with you as it is not the point or the meaning of this info post. Please respect Deborah DTW here. It is obviously not the place to discuss doctrines here.

Thomas Lessing

Deborah, I hope to quote to your readers some of the things John MacArthur has said in the past and to give them an opportunity to respond by evaluating everything he said in the light of God’s Word. Please let me know whether you approve.

Let’s start with the following quote from his book “The Gospel According to Jesus (Academie Books, Zondervan Publishing House, 1988, p.98)

“Those whose faith is genuine will prove their salvation is secure by persevering to the end in the way of righteousness.”

TRUE OR FALSE?

Pieter

This is very confusing…..
See about two weeks ago I ordered a Macarthur Study Bible (which I am still waiting for). And I prayed hard and long before ordering it…done countless searches, was even directed by comments from this site that its a good tool for “baby” new-born Christians like myself.
Should I now chuck it into the nearest dustbin? Please note I am not criticizing, I am asking. See I know there is false prophets out there. But why would I be lead to John’s teaching in the first place? I truly thought from what I read, prayed about that one can listen to his teachings, not follow him for salvation of course but that one can at least have one solid teacher. Does this mean that there is no one left? That absolutely everyone out there is sinister?
See my question/problem statement is not in defense of John MacArthur, but out of concern that I am not the only “baby” Christian ou there. I know and believe with my whole heart that Jesus is my savior, and that the Holy Spirit is the gentle whisper in my ear and that the Spirit would lead me to all truths. BUT there is no way that I understand everything. Why after praying so hard for some truthful guide to help me , would the Spirit then lead me to a Macarthur study bible, just to be lead away again? I don’t understand and has been on my knees since I read this article. Why would there even be teachers if absolutely everyone out there is false?
I know I don’t understand the bigger picture, but by reading the article are we now to discard teachings of people purely because some-one is keeping company with some-one working in the UN? (Please note again this is not criticism but a rhetoric question).
Sorry for the babble, but as stated in my first sentence this is all so confusing. ….

Pieter

thx Debs!

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