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Turn2God at the Union Buildings was…

Turn2God at the Union Buildings was…A Call to a Christian type of Shaira law

Line up:
Angus Buchan * Keke * Soweto Gospel Choir * Graham Power * Elza Meyer * Zane Maes * Retief Burger * Jackson Xhosa * Lionel Peterson * Bennie Mostert * Joe Niemand * Louis Brittz * Rhema South Worship Team *  Marlon Van * Nedine Blom * Soekie and the Radikids, etc.

It was your typical Dominionist fashioned, Apostolic and Prophetic, stake your patch of kingdom earth before it’s too late, unbiblical nonsense.

Elza Meyer had a vision from God one morning to host Turn2God.

They expected 40,000 people to show up and pay +/- R100 for seats.  (These things are no longer for free).   But instead her god only managed to get 15,000 paying people to show up, or less.

The rest of the day there was this echo from the stage where the speakers constantly reminded us how terrible it was that people actually took their invitation to sit on the grass for free.

There also seemed to be terrible feedback from the speakers; mumbles and grumbles that said “if no one came….they would have carried on worshipping God all by themselves.”   Their constant hinting at the lack of turnout and paying attendees was very sad.   Bennie Mostert told the crowd much later during the day, during a ‘Give us Money’ spree that they (the pastors) were very very poor, underpaid and needed money.

Elza says of the musicians;  Soweto Gospel Choir, a full orchestra along with Retief Burger, Joe Niemand and Louis Brittz who are singing praise and worship tunes, that their music will “usher us into the Holy of Holies“.

Flag bearers came walking toward the stage from the North, the South, the East and the West carrying flags from each country of the world where Dominionist missionaries operate.  These flags were placed in place holders at the front of the stage.  The entire process symbolised countries coming together in UNITY to ask God for mercy.

Before the Turn2God gathering took place there were little spiritual warriors that had strategically moved from each province, going through towns, praying over them, binding them using territorial spiritual warfare, by way of collecting SOIL from each town they stopped at.  This symbolised their ‘capturing’ of that land and ‘reclaiming’ it for God.

Elza Meyer tells us that back in 1999 there was a prophecy about a silver trumpet that would be blown in South Africa.  “The blowing of the silver trumpet will bring salvation to this nation” we were told.  Well to our amazement a guy steps out on stage and starts blowing a silver trumpet.  Wow,  a prophecy fulfilled right in front of our eyes.  How many people fell for that one?

Later a guy comes out (not sure if it was the same guy that blew the silver trumpet) and he blows a gold trumpet.  I have no idea why!   But I am guessing we will possibly find out at the next show that on the 6th March 2010 a gold trumpet was blown and that signified the fulfilment of a prophecy of the silver trumpet being blown.  Errr….

Elza speaks about ‘cutting covenant’ with God and that it was the most fearful day of her life.  I am not sure why.  Because being born again is the most joyful day of ones life.  But if we look at the god she serves (based on false teaching) it becomes horribly clear as to why she is so scared.  Another reason why she had to continuously let us know how fearful this ‘cutting of the covenant’ was (which, by the way is totally unbiblical), was to let us know that she can be trusted, she would never lie and this covenant has her dangling from a thread – any wrong move from her would seriously damage her covenant with God.

Linda Gobodo from Vuka Africa comes on stage and tell us how ‘they’ went around and BROKE UNGODLY ALTARS across the different provinces of South Africa and then stopped in Pretoria and created a NEW ALTAR TO GOD.  Linda gives a message to Elza and says, “God is going to restore Africa, Believe it!”

Up comes Bennie Mostert a pastor at the NGK Moreletapark and runs the prayer ministry Jericho Walls.  He speak about corruption in this country and how bad it is and that South Africa needs to turn back to God.  Just as the government has a bad rep for stealing money, the church has a bad reputation for stealing money too and this needs to stop, he says.

He then mentions Malachi 4 and says that if we don’t tithe we bring a curse on this country.   How’s that for a  solution to sin?   These people speak about repentance of sin, but it’s only said for ‘show’.   Tithing to the church, giving your money away has replace repentance.  So based on what Bennie said,  the model should look something like this:

 

  • Government is corrupt
    • Church is corrupt
      • Church does not tithe – they rob God
        • God curses land
  • Church tithes
    • God is no longer being robed of his Old Testament LAW of tithes
      • Church becomes uncorrupt
        • Government becomes uncorrupt
  • God blesses land

Bennie speaks about Love and Grace.  He said that if you point fingers at others you don’t have grace. How do you overcome this finger pointing problem?  Well, you pray many times a day not to point fingers he says.  Bennie then points fingers at the people of South Africa and at the Union Building and says “every sin we can point out in government we can point out in the church”.  Sin is not paying your tithes he tries to persuade us again.

The music kicks in and one of the main musician’ Louis Brittz says, “There is a special anointing when you sing African music to the Lord.”

Graham Power steps up to the plate and tells us how Peter Pollock (who publishes ‘Prepare the Way’ magazine) led him to pray the sinner’s prayer with him one morning at a breakfast meeting.  18 months later Graham had 3 visions between 4am and 6am in the morning.

Vision 1

God told him to hire Newlands for the Global Day of Prayer where all churches of all denominations will come together, hold hands and pray and the prayer movement will roll across the world.  This prayer meeting took place and approximately 320 million people around the world prayed in one massive ecumenical prayer day.

Vision 2

He awakes one morning with electricity running through his body, convulsing like nuts, and God shows him a vision of 3 waves:

  1. 1st wave:  The prayer wave
  2. 2nd wave:  The ethics, values and clean living wave
  3. 3rd wave:  The revival, transformation of South Africa and Africa wave

Graham Power never went on to mention his 3rd vision.  Or was it this one:

In his talk Graham again reviewed the vision that he had of transforming South Africa, Africa and eventually the whole world. He devoted much attention to an experience that he had in February 2002 when he attended a prayer breakfast for men in Stellenbosch. The speaker was a 28-year old Coloured man of Khoi descent. He was a former gangster whose whole body is tattooed. The topic that morning was “The Holy Spirit.” Afterwards, the speaker invited the men to come forward and receive the Holy Spirit.  One of them ran away but most remained behind to receive the “blessing” of being slain in the Spirit.

Graham said that when he was touched on his shoulder he fell down but rose again after a short while. He fell down two more times. The third time he lay on the ground for 1½ hours. He felt an electric-like current flowing through his body while having “an amazing experience.” He also heard a voice speaking to him, saying, “I am the spine,” (six times), “I am the head of the spine” (six times), “I am the king” (six times) and “I am the king of kings” (six times).

Immediately afterwards, Graham had an experience outside his body. He saw himself lying on the floor on his back with his arms stretched out in the form of a cross. He then saw Africa forming around his body with his feet in Cape Town and his head in Egypt. His hands pointed toward East and West Africa. He felt a strange sensation of pain rising from his feet and legs through his spine to his shoulders and arms. He interpreted this as a revival and transformation movement that will spread from South Africa to central Africa, and eventually to the whole of Africa. He also saw his arms becoming longer and reaching around the globe. This indicated that the movement that has started in South Africa would ultimately encompass the whole world.   PLEASE SEE HERE FOR FULL ARTICLE  —  Graham Power & Angus Buchan – The Transformation of Africa

The 3rd Wave is what the New Apostolic Reformation with C. Peter Wagner in the USA have been speaking about for a few years now.  And I always wondered what on earth they were talking about.  It was not The 3rd Wave, but 3 waves.

In between all this somewhere Turn2God uses our rugby players to help gain support for their One World Religious cause.  I can’t remember who they were, but they were helping some guy promote ‘Turn2God’ rugby and soccer balls that you can guy and give to family and friends that will somehow lead them to God.  (I think at this point I was trying to find food to eat – so I was not paying to much attention).

Graham Power introduces us to Steve Johnson who pops onto the stage and speaks about an initiative called Unashamedly Ethical who’s logo is the shape of a little rainbow. He challenges the people into signing a pledge that states they are unashamedly Christian by submitting themselves to a new set of 10 commandments. You will then be governed by a Christian Ombudsman (the Christian version of Muslim Shira law).  Graham Power says it only takes 3 to 4% of the countries population to make a huge impact.

Bennie Mostert comes back on and then in typical contradictory fashion says that Chrisitians never challenge each other.  But Steve Johnson challenged the people to sign the form.  He even asked the crowd to stand if they are willing to sign.  Of course 99% stood, what ever are they to do? Keep sitting?  They are all Christians after all.

Bennie Mostert held a ‘Give us Money’ campaign.  He shared that they needed R1.1 million to cover their costs.  But does not mention what costs they need to cover.  A bit of transparency would have been nice.

‘Who will give us R25,000?’ he said.  ‘Please put your hand up.  That’s R25,000.  Thank you sir, in the back.  Who can give us R25,000?  Thank you mam.  Thank you.  Please just stand up. Thank you over there….  Ok who can give us R10,000…. *hands go up*, who can gives us R5000…. *more hands go up*, who can give us R1000?  *even more hands go up*.  Who can spare just R500!” he says.   By now 70% of the 15,000 crowd are standing.

If you don’t have cash with you, don’t worry, there are ATM’s available as mentioned earlier on in the day.

Soekie (Sandra) Schoeman led a group of little kids onto the stage; they had been practising their ‘onward little Christians soldiers’ song for ages now and wanted to perform it to the crowd.

These children are none the wiser as to the false Christian movement they have been forced into.  They really do believe in Jesus.  Soekie and her Joel’s Army band of brothers on that other hand know EXACTLY what they are following and it’s not the Jesus Christ as mentioned in the Bible.  They are trying to create a ‘New Breed’ of Christian and are using your children to do it.  These children came from orphanages, they are well looked after I am sure, but are being led into something they know nothing about.

After this, a lot of talk went into how ‘Children are the future’ and that children are going to play a BIG part in the end time Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God harvest.

All politicians are called onto the stage.  You would expect the likes of Julius Dilemma to show up (after all he needs the most prayer).  But nope, surprise;  Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille shows up and Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Mulder.  Elza makes a very quick apology to the crowd; there were supposed to be more politicians appearing on stage, but they did not show up.

Angus, Jackson Xhoza, Graham, Elza, Bennie and the some others start praying over Helen Zulle. It was a huge display of interfaith in action.

Zille told Rapport she shared the crowd’s belief in the importance of love. Mulder said the Christian faith had to be lived voluntarily and not enforced by law, as some speakers at the event called for.     —

Thank you Pieter Milder for having 2 open eyes.  I hope.

Then Angus Buchan finally comes onto the stage.  My potatoe chips are now really crispy after having to sit in the sun all day long. So what does Angus have to say to us?  Nothing.  It’s the same mumbo jumbo as before.   I must say that he definitely has a fixation with clouds.  As he knelt down to pray he pointed to a cloud gently flying by, being pushed by a normal breeze, that naturally moved in front of the sun for all of 10 seconds.  He declared that ‘sign’ as the presence of God!  Incredible.  Then a gentle cool breeze blew (like it did throughout the day), and he likened that to the Holy Spirit moving over the people.  Oh boy.

Anyhow, to cut a big potatoe really smaller – Angus, near the end of his performance shouts out at the top of his voice, ‘The time is NOW, for the MANIFESTATIONS OF THE SONS OF GOD!!!”

So when the event is finally nearing its end the Apostles and Prophets have gotta do it in style.  A Beautiful white horse is led between the crowd (down the isles) from the front of the stage toward the Union Buildings at the back.  The flag bearers pick up their flags again and follow the horse out of the crowd and move in their designated compass directions as before.

We were told by Elza that if you look really closely you will see Jesus riding the white horse.  No really. That’s what she said!  He is there, you just can’t see him.

——————

I had to do some serious ducking and diving to get these ‘ACTION’ photos.

Elza Meyer, Helen Zulle and Bennie Mostert (Left to right)

Angus Buchan praying over Helen Zulle and for all politicians

Graham Power and Steve Johnson from Unashamedly Ethical (Right to Left)

Angus Buchan declaring “The time is NOW for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD”

Little Christian Soldiers – Children recruited for Joel’s Army

Flag bearers walking North, South, East and West (Spiritual Warfare)

Union Building with Flag bearers at North point

Imaginary Jesus sitting on the white horse – If you look closely you won’t see Him

Close up of White Horse and you still can’t see Jesus

Emergent/Ecumenical Minister ‘Deon Forster’ enjoying the Turn2God Praise and Worship Music

More...

144 comments to Turn2God at the Union Buildings was…

  • Elmarie A

    Thank You DTW !

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Righty, I am taking the day off… I’ve gone to take cover in my bomb shelter. haha

  • Elmarie A

    Now I know where Peter Polock fits in. aha

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >> Now I know where Peter Polock fits in. aha

    Sad isn’t it :(

  • Elmarie A

    Mmmm may be the GP got the “Mindless anointing” in vision 2 from Benny Hinn it is typical one of the plenty types available.

    see link
    The Mindless Anointing — Jesse Duplantis “The anointing of God was flowing, so I just kept saying, ” Glory to God! Thank you, Jesus!” . . .I don’t know what happened next, but all of a sudden I was in the Spirit. I didn’t feel or see anything. I was just in that fog, with smoke inside my car. . . My natural mind was not registering anymore in the car. I was caught up in the Spirit.”

    or
    The prophetic anointing — “Prophetic anointing is not just for prophets, it’s for the entire church.” “You need to do what you can to get some prophetic anointing on you” (John Eckhardt, 5/12/00 National School Of The Prophets, Mobilizing The Prophetic Office)

    or

    A multiplication anointing — “Saints, we have to preserve that anointing whether its the anointing that’s on Rod”… Rod Parsley agrees with Hinn about the anointing as he discusses the new healing center of Hinn’s. On his program he said, ” God where those anointings will be multiplied, I’m seeing this now Benny … Multiplied by one another, Smith Wigglesworth’s anointing multiplied by Oral Roberts anointing multiplied by Kathryn Kuhlman’s anointing multiplied by Benny Hinn’s anointing and when the people come there, there faith will be at such a level that that spiritual genealogy which you are preserving will come to bear against their need. … this is going to be a miracle mountain. “( This is Your Day program, Aug. 24, 1999 TBN )

    Oh my word these people you know. lol I cannot believe the similarities here. Benny Hinn must have been at that meeting disguised??

  • Elmarie A

    Louis Brittz got this anointing for the music. also BH.

    Anointed Songs — Jesse Duplantis states,”the anointing to come through in that song.”
    The Saving Anointing — Hinn states “When the anointing comes all your loved ones will be saved. All the demons that harass you will be gone.”

  • Jean

    Thanks for the lekka “open minded” report back…

    It is really sad to see the deception getting more “intense” and actually so much more “in-the-open”… more “discern-able” !!
    Yet the people are still trying to BUY their salvation with these rituals, their time and “tithing” money.

    Deborah, don’t hide… If people complain about this, then they are REALLY blinded by the enemy and most probably not saved at all…

    I have shared this now with all my fellowships and I know that this is going to travel to more people… Ha ha, can’t wait for the Namibian crowd to start their tirade… more fun and games for me…

  • Amanda

    Elmarie

    Nice doggy. Niiiice doggy.

  • Amanda

    Angus, near the end of his performance shouts out at the top of his voice, ‘The time is NOW, for the MANIFESTATIONS OF THE SONS OF GOD!!!”

    Such … boldness! Is he the first to declare it in such a manner? Is this another first for South Africa?

  • Amanda

    Christian Sharia law? Now that is a thought.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thank you Jean

    What I find amazing is how the newspapers like Rapport and Beeld and News24 did not give an actual report of the show. Were they told to not say anything?

    You would think that news like this would have made it onto the SABC, or at least a longer paragraph than what our newspaper reporters reported. I don’t even know why they bothered wasting bandwidth, it possibly took them longer to get those pages online that to actually write the minuscule report.

    This stuff goessssss wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy deeper into the crevices of government and the WCC. We think we know what’s going on. We have no clue. All these churches are sucked into a whirlpool of unimaginable deception. They think they are part of something big, they have been make to think they are big. They are pawns.

    I am going to watch 7nde Laan when I get home later with Neville. Oh I forgot to mention Neville Meintjies (Zane Meas) was there too. He came to show that he is a Christian and supports this movement, cos you can’t say Christian things on 7nde Laan.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    >> Christian Sharia law? Now that is a thought.

    No death pentalty yet. They will just kick you out the group so you can’t buy and sell anymore. Hmmm.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Oh wait that came out wrong. I am not going to get home later with Neville and then watch 7nde Laan. I mean… ag you know what I mean. hahaha. Ok that was really funny.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    PS, I still have not checked my email. Sorry. I am really really bad on this one.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    It is one of my five GSD’S.Thank you. I will tell Olak he is nice niiiice doggy lol lol, Oh hy is die witbroodjie…lol

  • Elmarie A

    Jean

    >>Deborah, don’t hide… If people complain about this, then they are REALLY blinded by the enemy and most probably not saved at all…<<

    Yes I agree with you.

  • cecilia

    Elmarie, Amanda took my line! – niiiicceee doggy! It amazes me that avatars really are fitting for the people who choose them – amazing!

    Deborah, you deserve a rest – rest awaaayyy! but NOT 2 hide – so no hide-away for you! I think everyone just waved away the fact that your e-box is full – most of us understand “in due time”…

    thank you (no Jean, this is no ecco!) thank you for the very open minded report back on what happened on that day! These meetings are all so “predictable”, it’s laughable sometimes. can’t wait to see the photos. A BIG THANKS again!

  • Elmarie A

    Thank You lol isn’t it called a gravatar lol

    Bless You

  • Amanda

    Cecilia

    Amanda took my line!

    As long as everybody here stick to grains and water. That’s all I am saying.

  • Amanda

    Deborah

    I still have not checked my email.

    Your once-in-a-lifetime-offer has now expired.

    Olak ate’ted it.

    I saw him.

  • Jen

    Bombshelter … I know the feeling… Thx4article:-)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    LOL.

    Elmarie

    I saw him too. What you gonna do about it?? lol

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    C

    >> It amazes me that avatars really are fitting for the people who choose them – amazing!

    Whacha trying to say? huh? I know I speak to much, wont keep quiet, ruffle feathers, and sound like a broken record. I just don’t see where doing cool tricks for peanuts comes into the picture. hahaha

  • Grant C

    Would someone please clarify it for me please, is our Olak an avatar or a gravatar. It needs to placed next to his Beeno biscuit. He is salivating…

    Deborah – awesome reporting. We knew this was going to be the scenario beforehand, didn’t we? We cautiously anticipated a different outcome, rather than a wayback-playback of Eugene Terreblanche on his (now) white horse and another Bob Marley sighting… jah foor dat clowd, maan!

    Let me not pursue this train of thought any further, other than to re-iterate congrats for a refreshingly perceptive and accurate piece on the ub4turn2ptownMK1.

    Prayers and blessings

  • cecilia

    thanks Elmarie! oops, sorry, my mistake! it shows what I’m busy researching….

  • cecilia

    deborah : question: so who is teaching him the tricks? lol

  • Amanda

    Elmarie

    What you gonna do about it??

    I know! Give him this:

    INDIVIDUAL COMMITMENT FORM

    01. To be entirely truthful in all I say.
    02. To be faithful to my family relationships.
    03. To do nothing out of selfish ambition or conceit, but to look out for the interests of others.
    04. To refuse to elicit, accept or pay any bribes, and to report those who do.
    05. To be a diligent leader without being harsh, and to pay my staff what is just and fair.
    06. To be a peacemaker.
    07. To do my work wholeheartedly.
    08. To submit myself to just and ethical governing authorities.
    09. To remember the poor by investing generously and sacrificially in the broader community.
    10. To collaborate with my peers to impact our community and nation.

    By signing this form I agree that my information may be added to the Unashamedly Ethical database for the use of future communication. I also agree that if I do not abide within the Ombudsman’s Code of Conduct (available at http://www.unashamedlyethical.com) I will be held accountable for such conduct by the Ombudsman.

    Deborah

    I just don’t see where doing cool tricks for peanuts comes into the picture.

    You attend Turn2God so that we don’t have to. AND we’ll pay up a few extra once you publish the photo’s.

  • cecilia

    Oh man! have we got it laid out for us! there’s another one coming up in very near future:

    DEEPER WORSHIP CONFERENCE
    in conjunction with GLOBAL DAY OF PRAYER
    with special guests – Michael W. Smith & Michael Coleman
    Cape Town Convention Centre 19th – 21st May 2010

    Just wondering if that “third wave” did not hit SA? and
    How deep is deeper? CAN one go ‘deeper’ if you’re already deeper (than the other laymen / sing-alongs)?
    see info at http://www.integrityafrica.com

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda
    >>Olak ate’ted it.<<

    Olak says nooo wasn't meeeeee olak that ate’ted it noono.lol lol it was the avatar. lol now im folding me paws over me eyes to peep yes it was the avatar or gravatar some sort of tarrrrr.

    that was so funny….lol

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I think Olak is a gravatar as he will gravatate across the internet when he makes other comments on other blogs. He will be famous soon. Avatars are for losers. “L”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    C

    >> deborah : question: so who is teaching him the tricks? lol

    I refused to answer that. Speak to my lawyer at Unashamedly Ethical his name is …… oh I can’t find their names now…

    Ok for now my lawyer is Judge Judy, she will sort you out one time. haha

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ombudsman’s names are:

    ADVOCATE KEITH MATTHEE S.C.

    Keith obtained a BA LLB in 1977 (UND) and a Bachelor of Divinity in 1987 (Rhodes University). He was admitted as an advocate in 1979. He was appointed as Senior Counsel by President Mbeki in 2002. He has acted as a judge on a number of occasions since his appointment as Senior Counsel. He has appeared in all the courts of the land, including the Supreme Court of Appeal and the Constitutional Court.

    In addition to practicing as an advocate, he also was trained as an IMSSA arbitrator, was a presiding officer in the Industrial Court and on occasions served as an assessor in the Labour Appeal Court in the Eastern Cape. He also co authored, with amongst others Professor Wiechers and Halton Cheadle, legislation in the Ciskei in the early 1990‘s, including the Labour Decree, the Public Defender Decree and a justiciable Bill of Rights.

    He has been the legal advisor to the Presiding Bishop of the Methodist Church Of Southern Africa since 1996. In this capacity amongst other things he has co authored a dispute resolution process and discipline procedure for the church. In 1998 he was also appointed as the first Convenor of the Connexional Arbitration Panel by the then Presiding Bishop, Rev Mvume Dandala.

    He has served as a member the National Executive of Lawyers for Human Rights. During the early 1990‘s he also served on the Border and King William’s Town Conflict Dispute Resolution Committees.

    Keith and his wife of 29 years, Roslyn, relocated to Cape Town from Grahamstown in 2007. They have two sons and a daughter.
    ——————————-

    GRAEME DORRINGTON

    Graeme studied at Wits and at Rhodes universities where he obtained his BA and LLB degrees. After articles in Johannesburg, he first joined a legal practice in King William’s Town and later established his own practice in King William’s Town and East London. During this time Graeme was a member of the Lawyers for Human Rights National Executive, and was a member of the Executive of the Kei Chamber of Business.

    In 2001, Graeme accepted an appointment as Head of Strategic Acquisitions for ipac Ltd, a multinational provider of financial services based in Cape Town. In 2004 Graeme set himself up as a consultant, now trading as Dorrington Matthee. Dorrington Matthee specialises in providing legal, labour and BEE services and in assisting companies in their transformation.

    Graeme and his wife of 15 years, Charlotte Brown, live in Cape Town. They have two daughters.
    ——————————–

    Are they going to raise John Calvin from the dead so he can help install law and order too? Why don’t they just call it Geneva II and get it over and done with.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    Ok, let me go find that cable cos it’s haunting me cos I got some really cool pictures. Well you know how it works. You think they look cool until you download em and realise they are terrible.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    C

    Yes, you can go as deep as you want. The deeper the better cos that is where your inner-god/goddess lies. (pun intended)

    He/She is not easy to find apparently, he/she lies somehwere between the kidneys and pancreas. They are known the play hide and seek and sometimes hide behind the liver and lower intestines.

  • Elmarie A

    cecilia

    >>DEEPER WORSHIP CONFERENCE
    in conjunction with GLOBAL DAY OF PRAYER
    with special guests – Michael W. Smith & Michael Coleman
    Cape Town Convention Centre 19th – 21st May 2010<<

    There is one at Moreleta church, my daughter told me about it a week ago she got word of MWS on facebook.I will check and send info.

    Deborah (Discerning the World), Amanda & cecilia

    Oh you are all so funny and gave me a wonderfull giggle thanks. Bless you all.

  • Jean

    Deborah

    Here is one of the responses I got from “distributing” the above Report . . .

    > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:24 PM
    > Subject: Re: Fw: March 6 Union Buildings report-back
    >
    >Hi Colleen
    >
    >> Tell Jean I loved the comic relief from my project work.
    >>
    >> Next time he is infiltrating white horses without riders in the cool
    >> Pretoria breeze, I could perhaps offer a coffee or something here ;)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thanks Jean.

    Gosh I need to find my usb cable… seeing the horse adds a whole new dimension to what I described.

  • Amanda

    Cecilia

    Do you have a link to Deeper?

    I’ll see that and raise you three:

    Cape Town for Jesus! iKapa lelika Yesu!

    I attended the program committee meeting for the Cape Town for Jesus prayer gathering that will be taking place at the new Cape Town (Greenpoint) Soccer stadium on the 22nd of March.

    The incredible variety of participants in the program is so exciting! It is going to be an awesome time of diverse worship, many opportunities to focus upon and pray for important issues (among them are the City of Cape Town, the Soccer World cup – there will be 32 soccer teams in attendance!, issues such as human trafficking, racial reconciliation, crime, poverty, HIV/AIDS, ethics and values and a whole host of other important issues).

    I had the joy of speaking with uncle Angus Buchan at the Turn2God event in Pretoria on Saturday – he is so excited about speaking at the Cape Town for Jesus prayer event. I also had a chance to speak with Helen Zille and Kenneth Meshoe (who have both indicated that they will be in [cut!]

    GDOP 2010

    To celebrate His Story and to continue responding to His Call, we invite you to join with us on Sunday, 23 May 2010 to celebrate the 2010 Global Day of Prayer event to be held at Newlands Rugby Stadium, Cape Town, South Africa – the venue where it all started!

    To further celebrate His Glory, leaders from various networks and ministries (Prayer, Transformation, Mission, Church and Youth) will be gathering together from around the world for the GDOP2010 Conference (20 & 21 May 2010), to share the ‘untold stories’ of the ‘unknown heroes of faith’!

    Cape Town 2010: The Third Lausanne Congress on World Evangelization

    To be held in Cape Town, South Africa, 16-25 October 2010
    And at GlobaLink sites around the world

    Cape Town 2010, held in collaboration with the World Evangelical Alliance, will bring together 4,000 leaders from more than 200 countries to confront the critical issues of our time – other world faiths, poverty, HIV/AIDS, persecution, among others – as they relate to the future of the Church and world evangelization.

    Thousands more leaders will participate in the discussion on the issues through the Lausanne Global Conversation and at remote Congress sites through the Cape Town GlobaLink.

  • Amanda

    Deborah

    Gosh I need to find my usb cable…

    What we need around here is a bloodhound.

    He is salivating…

    Maybe not. [I should have known that would happen.]

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Photos are on the article at the bottom. Enjoy.

  • Amanda

    Deborah

    Peanuts for you.

  • Elmarie A

    Ha ha ha I have a hunting dog Beagle he is an briliant nose too. But hmmmm ha ha

  • Elmarie A

    Thanks for pics DTW

  • cecilia

    uuuhhhhuuuummm – niiiice horsie! not totally white, but yeah, it’s ok! my eyes were a bit blurrrrrry when I looked at the photos – couldn’t see “Jesus”. It looked as if someone has sit on his back though? argh! maybe my seeer-anointing didn’t work today…
    ok right yes, I’m not serious! but whether you “see” or “imagine” or “paint” – it just doesn’t work that way! when will people remove the blindfolds from their souls?!!
    I told another lady the other day her soul-computer has gone banannas! she was shocked – then I explained to her how your subconscious work and how it can interfere with unfinished events (etc) in your life. she now can “see” (the real see) – that she was fooled for a very long time in her life!

    as for the flag bearers – I once was there too! ja, believe it! I also learned how to call the wind, or then people, from the 4 windcorners …. until I learned straight forward from Holy Spirit through the Scriptures in Rev 7:1 that ANGELS are actually holding the four corners of the earth in the last days…
    and
    there’s no such word(s) as “spiritual warfare” in the Bible

    I would have loved to see photos of the crowd? anyone got a link?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Yeah I tried to get one of the crowd but I could not find a high enough spot to stand to get an overall view. pity

  • Amanda

    Imaginary Jesus sitting on the white horse – If you look closely you won’t see Him

    But I can clearly see the scary tree monster clutching the reins with his twiggy fingers just to the left of horsey’s ear. Also eyes, nose, beard, right shoulder and arm.

  • Amanda

    Deborah

    You could have made money with this, ya know.

  • Amanda

    Is that Olak’s black nose above red shirt? Also mouth, eye and floppy ear? Maybe not.

  • Amanda

    My word! Is that Bobs in the tree on the left? Two eyes near the top, nose and lower down very short leags and paws. Or is that a beagle?

  • Elmarie A

    ha ha ha Jong julle is tog te skerp om al die dinge raak te sien.

    News flash: Bobs the whippet (He was wearing his brown patch over the one eye) and Parrot Missy the parrot (her beak is sun burnt) is reported missing at a gathering at union buildings.

    Inspector Olak and Inspector Skaapkoppie Liewe Skaapskop was consigned the docket to seek and investigate. The Supt. Sharp Eagle Eye will lead the investigation. Forward any info to Sup. Sharp Eagle Eye. They are now following leads about in a tree on the left ha ha ha.

    Bobs the whippet and Parrot Missy the parrot, was now last seen walking and flying down churchstreet towards the statue of oompie Kruger (gonnas is it still there?) lol lol. ha ha

    This is Haasdas se nuuskas new reports to follow soon. ha ha

    bark, bwhaaa or is it mheeee ha ha and tweet for now.

  • Elmarie A

    Oh Olak made the tweet sound ha haha must be the usb cable oooops now there you go.

  • Elmarie A

    burphhhhh lol

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)
    >>Sad isn’t it :(<<

    Yes indeed it is.

  • cecilia

    Baw-wa-wa-ha-ha! Amanda! I fell for it! I scroll up to see where you’re seeing things I did not! ROL!!

  • Amanda

    Elmarie

    LOL. You win! Thank you. It is the only way to stay sane in a world and a South Africa that has gone mad. Somebody should remind Elza Meyer what a fearsome sight Jesus Christ on the white horse will be:

    Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
    (Revelation 19:11-15)

  • Burning Lamp

    Am enjoying all the banter with the lovely SA accents – You should read Buchan’s latest Shalom newsletter and the glowing report he gives. What a deluded man! He even quotes John Wesley! His “Faith Like Potatoes” video is a hook for all the undiscerning and this is the majority. It is amazing to see the escalation of insanity that is passing for genuine Christianity. I just wonder how far this can go before God calls a stop to it. What really bothers me is the children who are exploited and filled with all this nonsense. And the saddest part is that 99% of Christians are oblivious like pigs in slop. They are content to wallow in it! Let me alone to eat the excrement along with the corn they say!

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Naaaah there is no winner, we just had fun putting a story together and well done all ha ha niceeee work done all of us.

    >>It is the only way to stay sane in a world and a South Africa that has gone mad.<<

    I agree Yes absolutely.

    Ok no I have to quickly try and find more info on that MWS AND DEEPER WORSHIP CONFERENCE @ morreleta church as I promised. Want to see how wel EM dug herself in to make some money money ha ha hmmmm wonder which is her anointing probably all.

    Phew the week was buzzzing buzy for me.

  • Elmarie A

    Wow who can yelp, what on earth is a 3 D Healing service. lol

    Morreleta Kerk
    Hierdie week: Sondag 14 Maart 2010 –
    * 17:30 Pieter Badenhorst (Genesingsdiens) | 3D Diens [mini-oudit]

  • Elmarie A

    Ok the Deeppack chopra ooops agh sorry man ha ha. I do have a problem with spelling sometimes. I mean the DEEPER WORSHIP CONFERENCE falls into the same time exactly as C posted and I’m sure MWS will also be at The Jesus Dome at DCC in Durban same as 2007 visit.
    20 MAY 2010
    # Time: 07:00 PM
    # Venue:
    # NG Moreletapark, Woodlands Campus
    # Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
    # Promoter:
    # JIRE Ministry

    >>DEEPER WORSHIP CONFERENCE
    in conjunction with GLOBAL DAY OF PRAYER
    with special guests – Michael W. Smith & Michael Coleman
    Cape Town Convention Centre 19th – 21st May 2010<<

    Hey I just had a light go on, when we where still at LW church last year the main pastor NN there spoke a prophetic word over SA about the WCS stadiums all over SA. Nevile Norden had a VISION that he had seen these stadium filling with Christians that God showed him, all the stadiums!!!. Hmmmm I can still recall his words " Ek sien duisende mense wat die stadiums op vul voor die die wereld beker" ha ha ha it is not a vision man it was a planned venue/s.

    C
    How many waves did you say lol.

  • Werner

    Thanks for the report Deborah. VERY interesting to see more of the pieces of the puzzle coming together…,seeing who’s hanging out with who.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    A 3 D healing service is when you put on those big 3D glasses and watch as not only 1 part of your liver is healed but the other 2 parts as well. Now before when 3D healing was not available only 1/3 of your healing took place.

    Jesus heals and still heals today 1st time, all the time, completely, with no come backs and no time delay.

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I thought so. lol lol

    I’m just wondering with what will they come up next.oh for goodness sake!!!!

  • Burning Lamp

    Just when one thinks there can’t possibly be something more weird and bizarre conjured up by the deluded, one more thing comes down the pike that trumps the last. At times it is surreal – like out of the Twilight Zone or soon I will wake out of this nightmare. Its like an Invasion of the Soul Snatchers. Maranatha! Even so come Lord Jesus!!!

  • Amanda

    3D: Dieper-Delf-Diens.
    Translation: Deeper-Mine-Service?

    It looks like Warrenish-post-modern-contemplative hook to catch the older folks:

    Delf dieper in die Woord by die 3D-aanddiens

    Deur Wanda Bam

    Gedurende Augustus 2009 is daar afgeskop met ‘n 3D-diens (Dieper-Delf-Diens) in die Rubenstein ouditorium. Waar die aanddienste voorheen gesien is as die eredienste waarheen die garde vlug wat die grootte van die Woodlands ouditorium vreemd vind of wat ’n rustiger aanddiens verkies bo die jeugdiens Die waarheid is dat daar egter klein verstellings aan die M@9-erediens (oggenddiens) gemaak is om die iService (jeugdiens om 17:30) en die oggenddiens so bietjie nader aan mekaar te bring. Vir jare het die jeug en die volwasse dienste verder uitmekaar beweeg en het ons besef dat die kerk onbewustelik gesinne uitmekaar “spesialiseer”. Die feit is, ons het nodig gehad om nuut te dink oor kerkwees.

    M@9 het ’n elektriese kitaar bygekry en die Engels/Afrikaanse verhouding van die liedere is hersien na ’n 30% Engelse repertoir teenoor ’n vroeëre tussen 5 en 10% Engelse kontingent. Die ouer liedere word eenvouding meer modern en eietyds verwerk, maar bly in essensie dieselfde. Ook moes die prediking, beligting en afkondigings belyn word tot ’n eietydse erediensstyl. Gemotiveerd, energiek, begeesterd is ‘n paar van die definisies van hierdie diens se karakter.

    Die 3D-diens wat om 17:30 in die mini-ouditorium in die nuwe gebou plaasvind is ’n aanddiens met ’n dieper-delf-karakter. Predikers word aangemoedig om werklik dieper te delf in die Woord, navorsing te doen, leersaam, intelektueel, diep en simplisties te preek. Die gehoor kan hieraan deelneem. Die gemeente kan vrae vra en insette lewer. Die leraar fasiliteer dan die sessie vanuit die gedeelte wat pas behandel is. Daar is ook ’n meditatiewe moment aan die einde van die prediking waar mense net kan stil word voor God en die boodskap kan integreer. Die musiek, lof en aanbidding is ook eenvoudiger met minder instrumente. Die gedagte is ‘n stylvolle, nadenkende, dieper-delf-geleentheid waarin mense juis aangemoedig word om self na te dink, die preek-woord vir hulself ’n leef-woord te maak.

    Voor die aanvang van die diens word daar voor die mini-ouditorium op die boonste vlak koffie en tee bedien en word dit sommer ook ‘n lekker kuiergeleentheid terwyl die klavier saggies speel en ‘n gevoel van knus warmte skep. Ons wil later ook die diens uitbou na ‘n gemaklike om-die-tafel gesprek waar dieper-delf-kwessies deurgetrap word! Kom drink saam met ons koffie en delf diéper!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    werner

    Believe it or not but the puzzle pieces are small right now because the puzzle itself is huge. And there are many many missing pieces that we still need to find. I would not be surprised to find Ray McCauley getting involved ‘soon’ if not already.

  • Amanda

    Emergent/Ecumenical Minister ‘Deon Forster’ enjoying the Turn2God Praise and Worship Music

    The Methodists strike back:[
    Edited [Block brackets are my comments. Amanda]

    What makes a blog like ‘Discerning the World’ so popular? It would seem to have such a narrow focus that one would expect it to have limited appeal – but I don’t really know what the ‘person in the pew’ is thinking. The thing that I don’t enjoy about the blog is the spirit of mockery that I find there. [She has no problem with the spirit of apostacy in Brian McLaren’s books apparently.]
    As a preacher I have learnt to be very careful about mocking the things with which I disagree. It is is a very easy way of scoring cheap ‘points’. It is quite easy to ridicule something and to get people to laugh and then they are somehow convinced that you are right and that those others are wrong. [Sola laughter is our guide to truth here after all.] But they are cheap points – because we are wired deep down to side with the strong – and let’s face it, those who are being laughed at are the weak. [Absolute flatout lie. Angus Buchan = Mighty Men. Elza Meyer = Hadassa = special priviledge with the King] It is like the school playground where the class wimp has fallen in the mud and the school surrounds him and laughs and jeers. Or perhaps just watches. We know that we ought to go into the centre of the crowd and support him – but if our mockery is validated (we are told that this is appropriate behaviour) then we love to stand in the crowd and jeer. We feel strong, because we are not the one who is in the mud. We are part of the mocking crowd. We belong. [Emergent projection. They are all about taking over the world, mocking Chriatianity and belonging.]
    It is also cheap because we can usually find something to ridicule about everyone and their beliefs. We are not all 100% consistent and logical. But one or two silly spots doesn’t necessarily invalidate us or our beliefs. [Has she even read Dion Forster’s An uncommon spiritual path – the quest to find Jesus beyond
    conventional Christianity
    ?] Though, I must confess, that there are Christians who do seem to major in silly points and the ridiculous and these shouldn’t be ignored either.

    And so she hasn’t. She has got us covered. Now I would love to see her get into the mud and help defend Angus Buchan, Dion Forster and Elza Meyer.

    Mark Penrith stands with her:

    Although when I read the articles and comments I agree with much of the bent regarding Scripture (I like Deborah am a Dispensational, Conservative, Fundementalist) I to fail to see the Love component.

    There again you and I (and Dion and David and Gus and Angus and John and…) disagree regarding matters of faith and yet the discussion is in Love and for edification.

    God’s less interested in web traffic than you might think.

    Mark fails ‘to see the love component’. The Bible says:

    Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. (1 John 2:9)

    And:

    And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
    (Matthew 22:39)

    So if we lack the ‘love component’, we cannot be Christians, can we? We are on our way to hell. Other than ‘love your neighbour’ they have nothing to offer us. Brian McLaren even boldly stated that we worship an idol.

    The visible church is sharply divided between those who would kiss the wolf, lest he be angry and those who will not ‘edify’ those who lead sheep into apostacy.

    Mark also failed to notice the 15 000 potential recruits for Joel’s Army and I wonder if the doctrine of the Manifest Sons of God counts as one of the ‘matters of faith that he and Angus disagree about, but what they can discuss ‘in Love and for edification’.

    Jenny Hillebrand, Jesus Christ is the One who is mocked by your beloved emergent New Age religion. Repent and receive forgiveness of sins, including your lack of love, in His Name.

  • Jean

    Short Bible study
    2Pe 2:1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
    2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
    2Pe 2:3 And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you . . .

    Lets look at verse one
    We can learn from this verse that you will be able to “discern” false teachers by their “destructive” teachings (heresies) which in this case is the dominion-ism taught by Angus, Elza, Graham, …etc.
    Verse one also states that “they” will deny their master.
    Well, these prophets/teachers say that they don’t need Jesus to bring His kingdom… NO, THEY will usher in their kingdom, their way, and then rule their kingdom their way !

    Verse 2 states
    “many shall follow their lascivious doings”
    The word lascivous in Greek is -apoleia- and means: fatally destructive heresies.
    The teachings of these people will lead to hell.

    and then verse 2 continues:
    “by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of”
    These people and their followers don’t like the Truth and they will “attack” the people who warns people, follow and proclaim the truth. Have we not seen this ?

    Verse 3 states:
    “And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you”

    Hey ! How many of you forked out money for these people because they spoke “nice words” or maybe they “threatened” you or made you feel guilty ?
    Yep, for these people you have become milk producing cows that will produce milk when they pull your . . . uuuhm, let me rephrase that…
    They know what buttons to press to get you to produce milk money for them…

    Fellow believers, we are truly a people being persecuted. Apart from being persecuted by fellow so-called “believers”, the unbelievers are also making fun of Christianity.
    Below is just another example of how Christianity is being ridiculed by others because of what so-called “Christians” do…

    This was sent by a non-religious person to a church website.
    *************
    I saw a bumper sticker on another car in traffic this morning, it said “Durban and the New Millennium belong to Jesus” on it. All I could think was that if that’s true, Jesus is doing an even worse job than the South African government because things are shit.
    I don’t get why people feel the need to advertise their religion (beyond obvious recruiting) using things like bumper stickers and badges. It just doesn’t make sense to me, cause it doesn’t work.
    *************

    Hey, this man knows more about the truth than the False teachers and prophets of this blog ! ;-)

  • Amanda

    Okay, team. It is official. We have been written off as ‘cranks’. That’s it. Judge Thomas Scarborough, a minister of an urban, cosmopolitan Church in Cape Town delivered the verdict. None of that Priesthood of Believers apply to us. So don’t think we can sneak into the renewing church under the guise of cultural diversity. They only reach out to ’embrace every class, every culture, every historical and social situation’. Cranks, on the other hand, they won’t touch with a ten-foot pole.

    Rev. Scarborough lists and links to In Via as a local church. Ron Martoia recently spent some time there, as well as at Elza Meyer’s church, Moreletapark. Here Dr. Ron Martoia and Dr. Dion Forster have a pleasant chitchat. Dr. Ron: “If we can break the textual addiction we have the relegates formation to bible study we are going to be dead in the water in the postmodern world”. Dr. Dion: “I agree wholeheartedly. I too love reading the scriptures, but always as a means towards a deeper connection with God and a more informed and sincere connection with others”. Do go read it in context yourself. Don’t expect a crank to do your work for you.

    So, Team Crank, I hope nobody is too disappointed not to be accepted in the visible church where Ron Martoia, Rob Bell, Brian McLaren and Stephan Joubert worship their gods.

    And Deborah, have you ever considered that your lack of ‘critical openness’ is very discouraging to a man like Rev. Scarborough as well as the mighty henchmen who threatened your life?

  • Amanda

    Listen, team. Over the last couple of weeks we have been condemned at least three times and, because we mock, we have no credibility according to Jenny Hillebrand.
    1. PPP called us Pharisees. The Bible says:

    You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? (Matthew 23:33)

    2. Mark Penrith says we do not love. The Bible says:

    Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. (1 John 2:9)

    3. Steve Hayes said we bear all thistles. The Bible says:

    “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:15-20)

    This is our condemnation. We are outside the visible church. And I agree wholeheartedly with them.

    The visible church lives by their gospel of ‘you shall love your neighbour’. This means everybody has the right to their own truth. The only time that you are wrong is when you insist on absolute truth. They can easily accept Brian McLaren, Nic Paton, Cobus van Wyngaard, Rob Bell, Rick Warren, Joyce Meyers, Ron Martoia, Dion Forster, Angus Buchan and Stephan Joubert, but not us. We are the untouchables, the outsiders. I rejoice in that.

    Let me explain. Christianity is not ‘love your neighbour’. That is a lie from the pit of hell! Jesus Christ said:

    “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

    This is Law. This is not good news. It is very bad news indeed. The penalty for breaking God’s Law, even once, is eternal damnation. Good deeds do not cover your evil deeds. The Bible says about us:

    as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18)

    If you think you have kept the ‘you shall’ and the ‘you shall not’ thundered from Mount Sinai today, then you are lying to yourself. God will hold you accountable for every single thought, word and deed. It does not matter how many good deeds you pile up by saying nice things to your neighbour. You are going to hell. The Law cannot save you. It is to show you your guilt and your desperate need for a saviour:

    Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:19-20)

    Christianity is about the Good News that Jesus Christ bore our punishment on the cross and He gives us His perfect righteousness. It is done. It is finished. It is outside of us. We cannot save ourselves, but we have the perfect Saviour who died for us.

    But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it– the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

    Yes, we are Pharisees when we self-righteously parade our good deeds in front of God. He sees them as filthy rags anyway! Yes, we do not love our neighbour as ourselves, because we do not love God with all our heart. If we did, we would not sin in thought, word or deed. And we do bear thistles. Lots of it.

    Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25)

    We have a Lord and Saviour who died for us, not because we are good or worthy, but because we are not.

    Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
    (Romans 3:27-28)

    We have faith in Jesus Christ, because He alone is worthy. He is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He is not Nic Paton’s trickster or Stephan Joubert’s Sage from heaven.

    Jenny Hillebrand is dead wrong when she says:

    We feel strong, because we are not the one who is in the mud. We are part of the mocking crowd. We belong.

    We are the ones who do not belong, who do not have fellowship. Her article and every single comment testify to that fact. We are out. We have fled the transitioning of churches [Dan Southerland: church is not for you, but for the um, seeker] and the revivals of repentance without forgiveness and the deconstruction of Christianity. And we laugh at empty horses. And we laugh at emergents who interpret salt to mean Christians should be the roast for the world. And we laugh at those who find our filthy rags does not compare to theirs. And I laugh at Brian McLaren who pretends to listen to the objections to his book and then tells the church to do as he says anyways. And I laugh at those who think they can bring us under the yoke of works and call it ‘good news’. And we cry for all the opportunities lost to tell sinners the Gospel of Jesus Christ who died for them for the forgiveness of their sins.

    And check your numbers, Jenny. How many in our pitiful ‘congregation’ and how many in yours and Stephan’s and Cobus’ and Elza’s and Dion’s and Mark’s and Thomas’ and Rob’s and Angus’ and Joyce’s and Rick’s? Why bother with this little zoo, which have no credibility?

    Thomas wonders if this site will endure. Probably not. It has been deleted once before because of the abuse and threats from WITHIN the church. But I can tell you one thing. No matter how many false teachers you embrace and affirm and edify, Jesus Christ is still building His church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Now, Jenny, if ‘one or two silly spots doesn’t necessarily invalidate us or our beliefs’ [DTW excepted], how many silly spots does it take for one to go to hell and how do you determine the answer?

  • Hi Amanda,

    Yes, my point exactely.

  • Amanda

    Hi Mark

    That numbers are meaningless? Or irrelevant is just that?

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Well said thank you!!

    This link is a very Biblical sermon done on Signs and Wonders by pastor Dries van As. Tekens en Wonders. I have to mention it is in Afrikaans and If at all possible good to listen to. I just again confirms we are indeed way far into the falling away and not a revival as told by these false teachers.
    http://www.ltradio.org/radio/#top

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    [EDITED: Amanda, oh LOL. No worries. It did look a bit odd. I thought it was just my flu medication. ahaha]

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    >> And Deborah, have you ever considered that your lack of ‘critical openness’ is very discouraging to a man like Rev. Scarborough as well as the mighty henchmen who threatened your life?

    Oh my……bursts out sobbing….head hanging on floor….. nose running profusely!!! I can’t find a tissue….this is getting messy. THIS IS WHAT I CALL ‘critical openness’.

    I would like Rev Scarborough to hand me my award for “The most annoying women in South Africa who tries wholeheartedly to adhere to the Word of God”
    She inspects every false teacher with a fine tooth comb and a big big magnifying glass.

    Sometimes those IDOLS in the churches are so big you don’t even need a magnifying glass or a fine tooth comb. The idol is the pastor.

  • Amanda

    Deborah

    There, there. Now, stop it. We already have slobber on the floor. And we do not want to mess up the fur, wool and feathers around here, now do we?

  • Amanda

    And scales! I forgot about the scales. Sorry, Jen.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    There is a remedy for spots ya, know. It’s called genuine repentance of sin, humbling oneself before Jesus Christ the Son of God, believing that He died for you. And His blood washed away your sin. Thereafter you believe by faith that you are saved, and to grow in a relationship with Jesus Christ you strive to live a holy life with the help of the Holy Spirit who came to live in your when you were GENUINELY saved. When you sin thereafter he convicts you and you go before your Lord and Saviour and you ask him to forgive you. And He puts His hand on your little head and he comforts you. And sure and nuts you might sin again, and again go to Jesus and say sorry and ask God to help you walk a righteous path.

    Nooo, apparently that is just to much to do for 98% of the world. They want the salvation without the saviour.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda
    <<<Now, stop it. We already have slobber on the floor. And we do not want to mess up the fur, wool and feathers around here, now do we?<<<

    Who's slobber is that: I hope not Olaks, he will have to cough up this time, he he lol ha ha I will leave it at that.

    <<There, there<<
    so toughtfull of you, en tog te oulik. You need to teach me some of that please one day. If I could I would do the There, there one on some scales had a perfect one in mind. he he lol

  • Elmarie A

    A article that clearly states :

    True and Deceived Followers of Jesus
    Prof. Johan Malan, Middelburg (August 2008)

    Scripture quotations are from the NKJV unless otherwise stated.

    There are many views about Jesus among the millions of His followers. These diverging opinions form the basis of a wide range of relationships with Him. Included among those who regard themselves as Christians, is a large group of deceived ‘believers’ who are convinced that they follow and serve Jesus. He, however, does not recognise or accept them as His own (Matt. 15:8-9). Among His true followers all is not well either, as many of them only have a limited knowledge of Jesus and will one day be ashamed before Him because of their unfaithfulness and half-hearted dedication – they will “scarcely” be saved (1 Pet. 4:18). It is of the utmost importance to know exactly where each of us stands with the Son of God since there will be no opportunity to correct poor or non-existing relationships after the time of grace has ended.

    From a spiritual perspective the following groups of people who all regard themselves as Christians may be distinguished:

    Please read further here :http://www.bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/Groups.htm

    I just had to share this with you all.

  • Amanda

    Thank you, Elmarie.

    Back at Jenny’s, Thomas Scarborough deleted his comments. He said:

    Incidentally Jenny, the reason for removing my posts here is that responses suggested that they may fall prey to mistaken interpretations. In that case, it would seem to make eminent sense to take them down.

    In one of his comments he said that calling us cranks was intended as humour.

  • Amanda

    Team, it is not so early on a Monday morning and I have been volunteered to mop the floor. So while I am busy over there, I leave this sticky mess over here for you to puzzle over. Just tell me in short sentences what it means in light of her article and the previous comments. I don’t get it. Jenny Hillebrand said:

    Well, this could be a very interesting discussion. I wonder if we don’t see in it (amongst more serious things) a battle of worldviews:

    Pre modern – what I believe is true, because what I have been taught is true and I won’t question it. Modern – let’s try to understand, let’s look around and ask questions, does this make sense in light of both faith and logic. Postmodern – I will interpret what I read in a way that makes sense to me – you may not challenge my interpretation based on the intention of the author. Logic and study may well be irrelevant.

    Of course, there’s much more to those worldviews and I’ve been a bit ‘black and white’, but it is interesting.

    Thanks for all comments.

    She does not mention a Biblical worldview. She does not mention the Bible fullstop. I am sooooo confused. Help!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Team Amanda – ‘Crank 1’

    It’s OK, I made a full post on Rev Thomas Scarborough lodging a complaint against DTW. I think Jenny wont be impressed cos if he has lodged a complaint with ‘relevant authorities’ then Jenny’s blog is in for it too as Christianity will soon fall under ‘hate speech’ legislation.

    Oh Oh…

    Over and out
    Team Deborah ‘Crank 2’

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Do you think he watched the movie Crank. Now that was just a very funny movie as I can recall. ha ha lol lol

    Deborah
    Well done on that post.

  • Amanda

    Team

    The Methodists strike back Part 2. With compliments from Jenny’s:

    Anonymous said…

    Ineteresting is a trace that is being done on Discerning the world, but traces take time. he/she/they are on an AFricNIC server , WebAfrica subscribers, located in JHB. Afrikaans language, connected with Win98. No name/s yet .

    Nice going, Jenny. Or does my worldview obscure the humour?

  • Elmarie A

    Cecilia

    DEEPER WORSHIP CONFERENCE
    in conjunction with GLOBAL DAY OF PRAYER
    with special guests – Michael W. Smith & Michael Coleman
    Cape Town Convention Centre 19th – 21st May 2010

    May be they got the title of this conference here?? What da ya think.

    Mediation and other methods are a very quick way to be introduced to a new world view and it will certainly not be a Christian one. In fact one new age practice leads to another as one pursues spiritual growth by these methods. That is my personal experience, you see it has to, for one to go DEEPER and to the next level of intimacy.

    Why has all this become popular in our day unlike any other? We need to understand the enemies intent to water down the church and have it look no different than the world, but still have it look spiritual. The more we seek these new methods the less we will be effective in answers and explaining or even presenting the gospel. As we watch these things taking place we need to be aware of those who are holding to the faith that is presented to us in the Bible and those who bring in something very different to have us change.

    People will always chase the new thing[s] down wherever they are not holding to and practicing the old thing accurately- God’s eternal word. Ancient it may be, but it is the truth that stands the test of time, to all cultures and all generations, and that is what our focus should be on. http://www.letusreason.org/current86.htm

  • cecilia

    Nah, me don’t think so Elmarie…… this is NAR and new age language… this is the trend in these last days – to go “deeper”, to experience “deeper”…..

    in spending time in the Word last night, I wrote down this:
    you actually CANNOT go deeper!
    Why not?

    Colossians 2:8-10 (KJV)
    8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    9FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY.
    10And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:
    (my emphasis)

    Ephesians 3:19 (KJV)
    And to know THE LOVE OF CHRIST, which PASSETH KNOWLEDGE, that YE MIGHT BE FILLED WITH ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD.
    (my emphasis)

    so I believe we have the FULLNESS of God IN us by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit. Because of our sinfulness, we don’t perceive all aspects of what it really means yet, and it varies from individual to individual.

    Rom 12:1-2 actually gives us the answer how to discover this fullness, but most people find it easier to run to all the buildings / churches where “things are happening”. Then they ‘receive’ anointings and get ‘imparted’ with all kind of ‘spiritual things’ which were not first TESTED and therefore not DISCERNED, and the result is, you will for ever run from place to place and experience to experience, trying to fill this “void of not understanding”. Where one could have well just took some time and waited on the Lord at home, and He would have, through Holy Spirit and the Word, revealed this “mysteries” to you.

    But the buzz word today is NOW. I want it now, I want to know now, etc. God’s “buzz-word” (if I might call it that, and no, it’s not in Scripture!), is WAIT on the Lord ….

    so I will sum this up as:
    ALL of God was in Christ and still is. When we know Jesus Christ, we don’t need to seek God by means of religious cults, or un-biblical philosophies (as the Colossians were doing).
    If we say we can go deeper, experience deeper, worship deeper, etc. we kind of deny the fact mentioned in Col 2.

    This, just my thoughts…. many might differ from me, but aren’t we supposed to check it in the Scriptures?

  • Elmarie A

    Biddag wys Kaapstad is slaggereed vir skouspel
    2010-03-23 00:04
    Theuns van der Westhuizen en Jana Breytenbach

    Kaapstad

    Die sowat 43 850 Christene wat gister die Kaapstad-stadion volgepak het om na die evangelis Angus Buchan te luister en ook vir die stadion te bid met die oog op die Wêreldbeker-sokkertoernooi, het gewys Kaapstad is slaggereed vir dié skouspel.

    Duisende Christene het van 11:00 na die Kaapstad-stadion gestroom vir die Jesus vir Kaapstad-saamtrek – een van verskeie biddae in Wêreldbeker-stadions landwyd – waar Buchan die groot trekpleister was.

    Onder die hooggeplaastes was me. Helen Zille, die Wes-Kaap se premier.

    Alles, ook die vervoerreëlings na en van die stadion, het glad verloop en daar was geen misdaadverwante voorvalle nie, het die burgemeester, mnr. Dan Plato, gesê. Gister was die stadion se derde en grootste proeflopie vir die Wêreldbeker-toernooi.

    Buchan het Psalm 37 as teks gebruik en gesê verskillende geleenthede klop tans aan Suid-Afrika se deur. Suid-Afrikaners het nou die geleentheid om aan besoekers te wys hoe God mense se lewe verbeter en ook hoe verskillende geloofsgroepe in vrede kan saamwoon.

    Die tweede deel van sy preek het gehandel oor die rol wat die man in die gesin speel. Mans is die leiers in die gesin en as hulle ’n dienende gesagsposisie inneem, sal gesinne makliker herstel.

    “Kinders sal dan na God gryp en nie na dwelms nie, want hul pa doen dit nie.”

    Mnr. Graham Power, bekende Kaapse sakeman en organiseerder van die eerste groot Christen-byeenkoms in Kaapstad nege jaar gelede, het bely hy leef sedert die eerste saamtrek in Februarie 1999 vir Christus en het innerlike vrede.

    Die saamtrek het sedertdien gegroei tot ’n wêreldwye biddag waaraan 350 miljoen mense verlede jaar deelgeneem het.

    Dít was die eerste golf van geloofsherlewing. Die tweede golf begin nou onder die vaandel van “Onbeskaamd Eties”, wat onlangs van stapel gestuur is. Daarna kom ’n derde golf wat ten doel het om Afrika te hervorm tot die “Lig vir die Wêreld”.

    Power en mnr. Steve Johnston van die “Onbeskaamd Eties”- veldtog het gesê hulle daag alle Suid-Afrikaners uit om hulle in die openbaar te verbind tot die veldtog, wat ’n etiese samelewing bevorder.

    Vroeër het kom. Mzwandile Petros, Wes-Kaapse polisiekommissaris, ’n beroep op Christene gedoen om betrokke te raak in die stryd teen misdaad in die Wes-Kaap.

    – Die Burger

  • Elmarie A

    Cecilia

    Just wondering if that “third wave” did not hit SA?

    They are spelled out clearly 1 , 2 and 3 . You where right!!!

    1. Dít was die eerste golf van geloofsherlewing.

    2.Die tweede golf begin nou onder die vaandel van “Onbeskaamd Eties”, wat onlangs van stapel gestuur is.

    3.Daarna kom ’n derde golf wat ten doel het om Afrika te hervorm tot die “Lig vir die Wêreld”.

    My oh my :-)

  • Elmarie A

    Oh my see what I see on Unashamedly Ethical partners.

    [New Heart Foundation] “The New Heart Foundation works toward the recovery of essential values and norms within the South African context. Schools, business, communities of faith, local government and the media need to incorporate honesty, compassion, responsibility and self-control in all it does and advocate. We gladly network with any ministry that has a burden for a restored nation”

    Jannie Pelser

    http://www.unashamedlyethical.com/Partners/

  • Elmarie A

    Can anyone see the Buzzzz words?

    What is Unashamedly Ethical?

    Understanding the purpose – Building Community

    Our goal is to form local communities of signatories all over the world. The forming of communities is our goal, because community relationships are the heart of transformation. Click HERE to read testimonies from all over the world about how people have benefitted from starting or joining an Unashamedly Ethical local community.

    Joining in RW Purpose driven world !

  • Elmarie A

    And what da ya know, Mr Rick Warren in South Africa Capetown 2010, noooo not to watch soccer. His name listed as number 23 on list below as part of advisory council.

    Cape Town 2010: The Third Lausanne Congress on World Evangelization

    To be held in Cape Town, South Africa, 16-25 October 2010
    And at GlobaLink sites around the world

    Cape Town 2010, held in collaboration with the World Evangelical Alliance, will bring together 4,000 leaders from more than 200 countries to confront the critical issues of our time – other world faiths, poverty, HIV/AIDS, persecution, among others – as they relate to the future of the Church and world evangelization.

    Thousands more leaders will participate in the discussion on the issues through the Lausanne Global Conversation and at remote Congress sites through the Cape Town GlobaLink.
    Learn more

    Cape Town 2010 Advisory Council
    Provides a theological foundation and strategic vision and networking for Cape Town 2010.

    Archbishop Henri Orombi, Uganda
    Mr. Ramez Atallah, Egypt
    Dr. Saphir Athyal, India
    Mr. Lindsay Brown, Wales
    Dr. Douglas Carew, Kenya
    Dr. Michael Cassidy, South Africa
    The Rt. Rev. Dr. John Chew Hiang Chea, Singapore
    Dr. Philemon Choi, Hong Kong
    Mrs. Robyn Claydon, Australia
    Dr. Ross Clifford, Australia
    Rev. David Coffey, United Kingdom
    Dr. Samuel Escobar, Spain
    Dr. Leighton Ford, USA
    Dr. Eugene Habecker, USA
    Dr. Jack Hayford, USA
    Dr. Knud Jorgensen, Norway
    Dr. Peter Kuzmic, Croatia/USA
    Dr. Jong Yun Lee, Korea
    Rev. Judy Mbugua, Kenya
    Dr. Bryant Myers, USA
    Dr. Ulrich Parzany, Germany
    Dr. Valdir Steuernagel, Brazil
    Dr. Geoff Tunnicliffe, Canada
    Dr. Rick Warren, USA
    Bishop Hwa Yung, Malaysia

    Arrangements Committee

    Mr. Graham Powers, South Africa, Chair
    Mr. Dawie Spangenberg, South Africa, Director
    Mr. Low Bothma, South Africa, Director

    This committee is responsible for the venue arrangements at the CTICC, security, exhibitions, stewards (volunteers), and catering.

    We are going to be hit by an enormous tsunami.

  • Elmarie A

    Lausanne I: The International Congress on World Evangelization

    Lausanne, Switzerland (July 16-25, 1974)

    Lausanne I: 1974The International Congress on World Evangelization was held in Lausanne, Switzerland in 1974. The gathering was called by a committee headed by Rev. Billy Graham and drew more than 2,300 evangelical leaders, from 150 countries.

    With the theme, “Let The Earth Hear His Voice,” leaders participated in plenary sessions and Bible studies as well as discussions and debates over theology, strategy and methods of evangelism. The gathering produced The Lausanne Covenant, a declaration that is “intended to define the necessity, responsibilities, and goals of spreading the Gospel.” Since 1974, the Lausanne Covenant has challenged Christians to work together to make Jesus Christ known throughout the world. Also, hundreds of organizations use The Lausanne Covenant as their ministry Statement of Faith.

    The Billy Graham Center Archives has more on Lausanne including a 30th Anniversary celebration that features photos and audio recordings from the 1974 Congress. Our thanks to the Billy Graham Center for making this collection available online.

  • Elmarie A

    The start of the Lausanne movement.

    The World Congress on Evangelism,
    Berlin, West Germany
    October 25 through November 1, 1966
    Audio Recordings, Texts, Photographs

    Conference theme:
    One Race, One Gospel, One Task

    Conference background:
    Billy Graham, Carl Henry and other American Protestant Evangelicals desired to provide a forum for the growing Evangelical Protestant movement worldwide. The congress was intended as a spiritual successor of the 1910 World Missionary Conference in Edinburgh, Scotland. At the meeting, many Evangelicals leaders were in touch with each other for the first time. The meeting was overwhelmingly American planned, led and financed, and was sponsored by Christianity Today magazine, with heavy support from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. The reports and papers at the congress helped to illustrate the shift of Christianity’s center of gravity from Europe and North America to Africa, Asia and Latin America. The 1974 International Congress on World Evangelization in Lausanne, Switzerland was a successor to this conference.

    Read on further here.
    http://www.wheaton.edu/bgc/archives/berlin66.htm

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    You will see by my posts it forms a much bigger picture of what is really going on and has been for years. So Rick Warren follows in Billy Graham’s footsteps. Question Could Graham Power become the African continents Rick Warren?

    I was on a bit of a roll here, there is so much more info but I think I have congested things enough for tonite. lol

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmarie

    Question Could Graham Power become the African continents Rick Warren?

    Nah, I think there is someone one else in South Africa pulling the strings and his name is Michael Cassidy.

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I see……Don’t know much about MC.

    [EDITED: Check under my categories for Michael Cassidy]

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Will do so. Thanks

  • Elmarie A

    Some Youtube clips on

    Cape Town 2010: The Third Lausanne Congress on World Evangelization

    Rick Warren
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-8pAArCZc0&feature=PlayList&p=867F5110AFBE126B&index=0&playnext=1

    Michael Cassidy – On Cape Town 2010
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLGPbefPt_M&feature=PlayList&p=867F5110AFBE126B&index=5

    Geoff Tunnicliffe – On Cape Town 2010
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu0N8TPures&feature=PlayList&p=867F5110AFBE126B&index=11

    Do I hear New Age in what GT is saying? Need second opinion here please!!

    Aricle with Albert Mohler and Geof Tunnicliffe’s names mentioned.

    Mohler and Land found the manifesto too weak and ambiguously worded. They challenged the drafters to be bolder in their claims for evangelical truth—a caution that proved prescient when New Age guru Deepak Chopra publicly praised the document. They also suggested that the document’s call for civility in the political process needed a strong dose of realism. Nevertheless, they engaged the document on its own terms—not in terms of some imagined power play—and thus were faithful and charitable critics. Despite the controversy, the document was enthusiastically received in many quarters. “Authentic, timely, elegantly written,” said a business leader who signed it. And an internationally known theologian said his “reading of this substantial and timely document ended with a doxology!”

    Significantly, the World Evangelical Alliance’s Geoff Tunnicliffe called the manifesto a “gift to the global church. … So often global evangelicalism has been defined by a narrow segment of U.S. evangelicalism through the eyes of CNN.”
    Gospel Independence

    Evangelicalism needs to be centered on faith, not politics.
    June 26, 2008
    http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/2008/july/10.20.html

    This carpet is so interwoven, we cannot even begin to imagine!!

  • Elmarie A

    a caution that proved prescient when New Age guru Deepak Chopra publicly praised the document.

    Letter of praise??

    The New Evangelicalism: “Not to Attack or Exclude”

    Accepting the olive branch offered by the manifesto can only be provisional at this point, however. Looking over the seven points of essential doctrine, each takes a dogmatic position that millions of other Christians don’t accept.

    Read more here:

  • louise

    I am sorry but I laughted at the white horse and said “Sorry Lord but you gave me this sense of humour” Lol that was funny.I think God smiled at it as well.

  • Elmarie A

    Update MMC : Sorry I could not find the english version.

    ‘Gelowiges, tree in die bres vir SA’
    2010-04-06 21:58

    Neels Jackson

    Dis tyd vir gelowiges om op te staan en hul stemme te laat hoor teen die vrees en negatiwiteit in Suid-Afrika.

    Dit was gister die boodskap van mnr. Angus Buchan, Greytownse evangelis wat besig is om voor te berei vir die laaste Mighty Men-konferensie op sy familieplaas.

    Buchan is bekommerd oor Suid-Afrika.

    Oor die atmosfeer in die land ná die moord op mnr. Eugène Terre’Blanche het hy gesê hy kry die indruk daar is baie vrees en kommer. Hy voel ’n klomp woede en paniek. Mense raak desperaat.

    Emosies soos vrees, woede en paniek kom egter van die duiwel, het Buchan gesê. Die Here bring geloof, hoop en liefde.

    Buchan het verwys na Esegiël 22:30, waarin die Here sê Hy soek iemand wat vir die stad in die bres kan tree sodat dit nie vernietig word nie. Dis wat gelowiges nou moet doen.

    Hy het ook verwys na Jeremia 29:11-13, waar God aan sy mense sê Hy beplan vir hulle voorspoed, nie teenspoed nie. Hy wil vir sy mense ’n toekomsverwagting gee en as hulle tot Hom bid, sal Hy hul gebede verhoor.

    Buchan, wat telkens beklemtoon het dat hy wit en swart insluit as hy van gelowiges praat, het gesê die laaste ding wat mense nou moet doen, is om weg te hardloop.

    “We must vasbyt,” het hy op sy kenmerkende manier gesê. “Ons het so ’n wonderlike land met sulke pragtige mense, ons kan dit nie bekostig om dit nou weg te gooi nie.”

    Buchan het gesê voorbereidings vir volgende naweek se Mighty Men-konferensie is voluit op dreef. Hulle maak reg vir honderdduisende mans.

  • louise

    I am simply going to ask it straight out. Who has picked up Tammie Trents cry act 10 years after her husband died, mysteriously. I have groaned and have tried ignoring what I think and it wont go away. Who knows about that small quiet voice. I battle to believe a word she says and i am no police man, just a turned on child of GOD. I would appreciate any in put if anyone knows where I am coming from. I keep seeing an oxygen bottle smashed over his head. Why?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Louise

    Nope, I can’t say anyone would know where you are coming from on this one. Does it have anything to do with the Turn2God event?

  • keith matthee

    Dear Deborah,

    I have just come across this website.

    I am one of the ombudsman of UE.

    I confess I am not really able to make out at all times what points the various parties are trying to make. Suffice to say that there might be some misconceptions about the role of the ombudsman in the UE campaign.

    As a lawyer my task is to adjudicate on whether any member of UE has breached the constitution of UE. As in all voluntary associations, there is a constitution and members are obliged to comply with such a constitution if they want to remain members of such voluntary association.

    You will note from the Code of Conduct, (which for your convenience I have attached below), that there is no faith requirement. Thus an atheist who is able and willing to commit himself to honest and ethical conduct in his business dealings is able to be a member. On closer scrutiny of the Code you will note that there are no innovations there. The conduct required is virtually identical to the conduct which sound governance business practices have required for many years. In this regard a possible innovation is the focus on the dignity of the employee, which of course is at the heart of all monotheistic world religions, secular humanism and the South African constitution.

    Dealing with my role/capacity – to ensure my independence (and that of my co-ombudsman, Graeme Dorrington) I am not a member of UE (neither is Graeme Dorrington) and Graeme and I receive a modest monthly retainer, which we share, for professional services rendered. Our appointments are for a fixed period and we can only be removed for exceptional reasons as set out in the constitution. This security of tenure is vital to ensure our independence, especially if faced with a complaint against an influential member of UE.

    Trust this clarifies things.

    Kind regards,

    Keith Matthee

    UNASHAMEDLY ETHICAL’S CODE OF CONDUCT
    Members shall be honest and ethical in all their business dealings, including but not limited to:

    That members refuse to elicit, accept or pay any bribes, and to report those who do.
    That members negotiate and award all contracts with integrity.
    That members take no part in price fixing, collusion, fronting or misrepresentation of their business credentials and/or contributions to transformation.
    That members pay their taxes.
    That members pay reasonable salaries and wages, and pay them on time.
    That members treat their employees with dignity.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Keith

    Dear Deborah,

    I have just come across this website.

    I am one of the ombudsman of UE.

    I confess I am not really able to make out at all times what points the various parties are trying to make. Suffice to say that there might be some misconceptions about the role of the ombudsman in the UE campaign.

    As a lawyer my task is to adjudicate on whether any member of UE has breached the constitution of UE. As in all voluntary associations, there is a constitution and members are obliged to comply with such a constitution if they want to remain members of such voluntary association.

    You will note from the Code of Conduct, (which for your convenience I have attached below), that there is no faith requirement. Thus an atheist who is able and willing to commit himself to honest and ethical conduct in his business dealings is able to be a member. On closer scrutiny of the Code you will note that there are no innovations there. The conduct required is virtually identical to the conduct which sound governance business practices have required for many years. In this regard a possible innovation is the focus on the dignity of the employee, which of course is at the heart of all monotheistic world religions, secular humanism and the South African constitution.

    Dealing with my role/capacity – to ensure my independence (and that of my co-ombudsman, Graeme Dorrington) I am not a member of UE (neither is Graeme Dorrington) and Graeme and I receive a modest monthly retainer, which we share, for professional services rendered. Our appointments are for a fixed period and we can only be removed for exceptional reasons as set out in the constitution. This security of tenure is vital to ensure our independence, especially if faced with a complaint against an influential member of UE.

    Trust this clarifies things.

    Kind regards,

    Keith Matthee

    Oh I am so thankful you came to speak to me. Can I ask you a very important question. And I understand now that you are completely separate from the UE. Thanks for the clarification.

    This idea sounds all very well and good, but this is being promoted as a Christian thing. I understand that one can be any religion as long as you obey the code of conduct. My worry is this:

    This is an organisation thats ultimate goal is to create a ‘Christian’ OK let’s call it the ‘The godly’ yellow pages where you would want to support or render services from someone who has the same moral code as you. Now who does not want that? It’s good right? Of course yes. Not going to argue that point. And a very clever idea it is.

    What bothers me is what happens when this organisation gets so large (and it will) that it begins to control who can buy and sell. As I understand in the future there will be ‘benefits’ to those who belong, like massive discounts on purchases (if you can identify yourself as a member), even a card (like a debit card of sorts) to the point of the opening of a bank.

    Can you imagine one day not being able to buy or sell because someone insists you were not truthful and you are removed from the organisation. You see my concern here? What about this organisation getting so big that it controls the lives of people and those who start to fear and want to remove themselves will no longer be able buy or sell?

    Is this the start of people being thrown into a position that when the implantable microchip comes out that people already have their money tied up in an organisation/bank and will lose everything in the blink of an eye.

    Just my thoughts (based on some well researched information).

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Wow i’m still reading the above post Debs. Well done. Yikes I see what you are saying. I know about all this but Yikes is about how close we are getting.

    I eco your thoughts here too.

    After I saw “Fall of the Republic: The Presidency of Barak Obama dvd that I told you about? This makes so much more sense to me now. The Laussanne movement are also linked here. I’m pretty sure we will find a link. In fact there must be a link.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmarie

    That is how close we are… it’s right on top of us infact and no one even sees it.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Is Julius Dilemma a well placed and timely trigger to get people to sign up for a moral country?

  • Elmarie A

    Yes indeed!!!!

    Man oh man. I’m actually half speechless here.

    You know what I mean??

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I should be a political analyst. These other guys out there are useless. lol

  • Elmarie A

    keith matthee

    Oh I am so thankful you came to speak to me

    I Eco Deborah’s words here

    Thank You !!

  • Elmarie A

    Yes you should and You won’t be useless lol lol

    [Edited by DTW: Haha. That’s more like the cool look]

  • Elmarie A

    Can you watch the E TV NEWS Program with Angus in ten minutes??

    If not. I will update you :-)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I can’t I don’t have DSTV. Ah wait, let me ask the ones with money who can afford sattelite, they are called my parents. haha.

  • Elmarie A

    Is Julius Dilemma a well placed and timely trigger to get people to sign up for a moral country?

    Well hmmmm you know the demon of Fear is there! In the people who are afraid. Talking about the blind who are being led astray.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmaire

    I can’t I don’t have DSTV. Ah wait, let me ask the ones with money who can afford sattelite, they are called my parents. haha.

    Mission complete.

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ok just watched it and yes, what he says has nothing to do with true christianity. He said that “All the people must come to MCC” and that means “everybody” muslim, hindu, aspro, disprin, and look to God. Now I just want to know which god? There are sooooo many god’s and idols.

    I will find video clip and maybe you can add it to article above as follow up.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmarie

    Ok just watched it and yes, what he says has nothing to do with true christianity. He said that “All the people must come to MCC” and that means “everybody” muslim, hindu, aspro, disprin, and look to God. Now I just want to know which god? There are sooooo many god’s and idols.

    You kidding? That’s all? I thought it was going to be something serious. My parents are going to kill me for wasting their time. Jussstttttt kiddingggggg ;)

  • Amanda

    Keith Matthee

    In this regard a possible innovation is the focus on the dignity of the employee, which of course is at the heart of all monotheistic world religions, secular humanism and the South African constitution.

    Are you saying that this is true in Islam? Could you please give a chapter and verse reference from the Koran to back it up?

  • Amanda

    Etienne Piek: Calling South Africans to prayer

    This is a unique opportunity for us as believers to unite to change the history of South Africa. God has not lost control, nor is He unaware of what is happening in our nation at this time. It is a time for each believer to allow the Holy Spirit to search our hearts, to let go of selfish interests and to beseech the Lord Jesus Christ to come to our aid. This is not the time to judge or to accuse, but to plead for God’s plans and purposes to be established in our nation. Let each of us empty ourselves, repent and willfully turn from all hatred, bitterness, judgment, racism or fear, and allow the Holy Spirit to use us as instruments of reconciliation and healing in this torn nation. Pray for the peace of God that surpasses all understanding to guard the hearts and minds of all South Africans (Phil 4:7), and pray for the God of peace to crush the evil one under our feet (Rom 16:20).

  • Robbie

    I see a similar (Oct 2009) USA “hate crime bill” being passed here in South Africa soon. No discrimination will be tolerated. Not against race. sex or religion.

    But thats not new news is it?

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hmmm taping finger on laptop here lol lol
    Ek fluister vir jou…. ons sal niemand se nie. hie hie gigels

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmaire

    >> Hmmm taping finger on laptop here lol lol
    Ek fluister vir jou…. ons sal niemand se nie. hie hie gigels

    Hey, that’s me!

  • Elmarie A

    GDOP London calls every Christian in the UK to prayer

    As a precursor to a National Day of Prayer at London’s West Ham Stadium on 13th June 2010, GDOP London is calling every church and Christian in the UK to a season of prayer and fasting for the nation. As the country moves closer to a historic chairos moment with the British general elections taking place May 6, GDOP London convener Jonathan Oloyede is urging the church to rise up prophetically and perform her duty as ‘kingmaker,’ reports Peter Wooding, special to ASSIST News Service.

    “Every church, ward, borough or district should take responsibility in prayerfully deciding who is elected locally into public office. Churches need to hold vigils, conduct special prayer services and urge their congregants to do a little bit more towards the election which is a divine selection. If we pray then as our Lord taught us, God’s will shall be done in Brighton, Hereford, Luton, York and everywhere,” explains Dr Oloyede.

    Andrea Minichiello Williams from Christian Concern for Our Nation is also encouraging Christians across the UK to fast and pray for the upcoming General Election.

    “Given the state of our society, I feel burdened to call Christians across the nation to fast and pray. The Bible calls us to pray for our leaders for kings and all those in high positions. Pray that those who are elected will be MPs that would seek to espouse Godly principles at the heart of governance. Pray that we would have Christ-centred policy.”

    GDOP London is also calling upon every church, village, town and city to send a delegation of hundreds to the National Prayer event at West Ham Stadium on Sunday 13th June. Organisers are also urging churches to unite locally in prayer on Pentecost Sunday 23rd May as ramp up events towards the mass gathering.

    “We join with millions of Christians across the world on that day. Let us unite locally and globally. We need to consolidate the result of our prayers at the polls with united focus on what the Lord wants done in our nation over the next few years, The Lord wants us to move forward as His United Church in the nation,” said Dr Oloyede.

    Tickets are free for children under 10 to allow whole families to attend.

    GDOP London advises churches to book coaches for their congregations to support families, the elderly and vulnerable.

    Artists lined up to lead the thousands in worship include Graham Kendrick, Noel Robinson, Godfrey Birtil, the All Souls Orchestra and X Factor finalist Beverly Trotman amongst others.

    http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue9442.html

  • Elmarie A

    To refresh your minds here. GDOP is linked to Luasanne movement and you can read and discern further here.

    and also read up on Luasanne movement and the who’s who.

    Just about every Evangelical is linked to this group, the likes of Billy Graham, Rick Warren, and many many more.

  • Elmarie A

    Te voet, te fiets, te perd kom Magtige Manne
    2010-04-14 22:25

    Neels Jackson

    Greytown. – Hulle stap en hulle trap, hulle ry en hulle vlieg.

    Hoe hulle ook al kom, mans het van heinde en ver af begin instroom na die plaas Shalom waar mnr. Angus Buchan sy laaste Mighty Men-saamtrek dié naweek aanbied.

    Ds. Dawie Liebenberg van die NG gemeente Danie Theron in die suide van Johannesburg het Shalom gisteroggend seervoet bereik nadat hy al die pad van Johannesburg af met ’n groot kruis oor sy skouer daarheen gestap het.

    Tog kon ’n moeë Liebenberg gister nie uitgepraat raak oor die positiewe ontvangs wat hy oral langs die pad gekry het nie. Daar was mense wat vir hom slaapplek aangebied het en ander wat kom dankie sê het vir die boodskap van hoop wat hy bring. Hy kon ’n boodskap van hoop bedien en op plekke kon hy sommer op straat vir mense preek.

    Mnr. Anton Fouché, wat vir die projek 2 Million Steps van Johannesburg af stap, het gister tot in Mooirivier gevorder.

    Hy het gesê dit gaan goed met hom en dat daar binne ’n uur seker 100 motors by hom verby is met plakkers en baniere wat aandui hulle is op pad Mighty Men toe.

    Intussen het sowat 30 fietsryers ook gister moeg op Shalom aangekom nadat hulle vyf dae tevore uit Pretoria vertrek het. Hulle het hul toer Cycle for Christ genoem.

    Uit Somerset-Wes het ds. Paul Barnard van die Helderberg-gemeente gister as deel van ’n groep van tien motorfietsryers weggespring. Hulle het beplan om die 1 700km oor Graaff-Reinet en Golden Gate tot op Shalom in drie dae af te lê. Ander motorfietsryers sou langs die pad vir dele van die toer by hulle aansluit.

    Liebenberg het gesê hy hoor daar is Vrystaters wat die tog Shalom toe te perd aanpak.

    Intussen het die aankomelinge gister ’n sterk stroom gevorm. Daar is woonwaens, bakkies en sleepwaens.
    Sommige kom met vragmotors en ander met busse.

    Langs die pad word hulle op verskillende maniere aangemoedig. By Harrismith is daar byvoorbeeld ’n banier oor die pad wat konferensiegangers aanmoedig om hul motors se toeters vir Jesus te druk.

    Buchan het aanvanklik die mikpunt gestel dat daar 400 000 mans by vanjaar se saamtrek sal wees. Me. Bianca Ortmann van Shalom kon gister egter nie sê hoeveel mans al bespreek het nie.

    Die inligting word volgens haar doelbewus van haar weerhou omdat Buchan intussen besluit het dit gaan nie oor getalle nie.

    Tot onlangs nog het Shalom egter gesê besprekings verloop beter as vorige jare en dat hulle gereed is vir tot 500 000 besoekers.

    see pic here:

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    500,000 ?????????

    Where are they going to put these people exactly? But more importantly. How much money is that? LOL

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    oooi yes tons tons tons of money to enrich themselves. 500000 heads x 150 per ticket = 750000 phew and that excludes the collections during MMC. Yikes !!!!!

  • Elmarie A

    oooo no it is 75000000

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmarie

    And all this time they said there was no money to be made in selling false teaching. But wait, you also have the ‘sponsors’ who will have stuff on sale.

    And I bet you they will tell the crowd they are R2m short to pay expenses. I did offer to set up a tent to do a live performance with my parrot doing all sorts of birdie tricks but they said it won’t be profitable enough. I have to agree. I am too struggling financially. My parrot is on rations.

    Oh I also forgot I am female and they won’t let me in – I tried to tell them my parrot was male, but they would not listen.

    Are they going to help pay for our new toll highway to make sure that the residents of Gauteng do not starve to death after it’s implemented? That would be a lovely ‘Christian’ gesture me thinks.

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I did offer to set up a tent to do a live performance with my parrot doing all sorts of birdie tricks but they said it won’t be profitable enough. I have to agree. I am too struggling financially. My parrot is on rations. ,

    You mean lol like this

    and like this wow that would be sooooo nice. Who could refuse you? Noooooooooo!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmarie

    Regarding the pictures of parrot…

    You mean lol like this

    and like this wow that would be sooooo nice. Who could refuse you? Noooooooooo!!

    I think that parrot is fake.

  • Elmarie A

    Wees manne, nié sissies – Angus
    2010-04-17 22:50

    Die magtige manne bulder na verwagting vandag hul laaste amen op Angus Buchan se plaas.

    Die opkoms by die Mighty Men-saamtrek is veel laer as die 400 000 waarvoor Buchan gehoop het (ramings wissel van 200 000 tot 300 000), maar tog het mans sedert Vrydag vir oulaas hier byeengekom om ywerig te luister hoe Buchan hulle aanmoedig om in die land en hul huishoudings leiding te verskaf.

    Dit is die laaste Mighty Men-saamtrek op die plaas.

    Buchan het mans aangemoedig om “wagters vir die huis” te wees deur wag te staan teen die sonde.

    Hy het gepraat oor die vrees vir die land se toekoms. “Moenie van Suid-Afrika weghardloop nie!” het hy drie keer gebulder. “Jou probleme gaan jou volg waar jy ook al gaan. Daar is ook bang mense in Australië!”

    Buchan was nostalgies oor die afgelope sewe jaar en die impak daarvan op mans. “Toe ek sewe jaar terug begin het, het mense my gevra ‘Vir wat noem jy dit Míghty Men? Ons dog dan Christene moet nederig wees?’ Ek het gesê ons ís nederig, maar ons is magtig in God. Ons moet ons skouers teruggooi, ons bors uitstoot en trots in God wandel.”

    Buchan het ’n paar keer gesê mans moet “ware mans” eerder as “patete” (wimps) of “sissies” wees. Hy het mans aangemoedig om meer soos Elia te wees. “Elia was nie ’n sissie nie! Hy was ’n harige man met ’n leerbelt!”

    Al sou dit beslis die laaste Mighty Men-saamtrek op sy plaas wees, het hy geskimp hy sou teen die einde van die naweek ’n verrassende aankondiging in dié verband doen. Daar gaan ook provinsiale en oorsese opvolgbyeenkomste wees.

    Hoewel Buchan by verlede jaar se saamtrek in duie gestort het, het sy gesondheid gisteraand nog gehou. Hy het weer tydens dienste rondgetrippel en op die verhoog opstote gedoen. Die naaste aan ’n ongeval was ’n konferensieganger wat Vrydagaand kort voor Buchan se verhoogoptrede ’n hartaanval gekry het, maar ook hy het oorleef.

    Mans op die plaas was vol lof vir die Mighty Men-saamtrekke se nalatenskap, maar elders was daar meer gemengde gevoelens.

    Prof. Julian Müller, teoloog van die Universiteit van Pretoria, begryp gelowiges se behoefte aan ’n pelgrimstog wat ’n “gevoel van sekerheid in onsekere tye gee”.

    “Die probleem is dat daar ook negatiewe elemente ingesluip het. Die Mighty Men-beweging het nie verantwoordelike Skrifgebruik bevorder nie. Die Bybel is sonder verantwoordelike interpretasie gebruik.

    “En die hele idee van ‘mighty’ pas nie by die evangelie van Christus nie. Die saamtrekke het veral in die verhouding tussen man en vrou ’n godsdienstige fondament aan ongelykheid gegee.”

    Die digter Lina Spies, wat Buchan al in rubrieke gekritiseer het, het gesê sy verset haar steeds teen sy teologie, want “hy verkondig die onderdanigheid van die vrou asof dit die kern van die evangelie is. Jesus het voortdurend grense oorskry: tussen Jode en Samaritane, én tussen man en vrou.”

    – Rapport

  • Elmarie A

    ‘Dis groter as ooit’
    2010-04-16 22:10

    Greytown. – Vanjaar se Mighty Men-saamtrek het gisteraand onder dreigende reënwolke met derduisende mans begin.

    Sommige het van so ver as Australië, Nieu-Seeland en Engeland op die plaas Shalom buite dié dorp toegesak vir die sewende en laaste saamtrek.

    Mnr. Angus Buchan se boodskap aan hulle was dat hulle “Watchmen of the house” moet wees. Dit beteken dat hulle God se boodskap in die eerste plek in hul huise, maar ook by die werk en verder moet uitdra.

    Hy het die mans aangemoedig om te sê: “Ek en my huis, ons sal die Here dien.”

    Buchan het ’n sterk bekeringsboodskap gebring waarin hy aan die mans gesê het hulle kan nie dié rol speel as hul eie lewens nie in orde is nie.

    Hy het onder meer gesê mans mag nie by hul sekretaresses slaap of die ontvanger van inkomste bedrieg nie.

    Hy het ook gemaan teen negatiewe praatjies oor die situasie in die land en gesê daar is sommige ouens wat die duiwel se werk vir hom so goed doen dat hy niks self hoef te doen nie.

    Hulle moenie vanaand bekommerd wees oor wat in Suid-Afrika gebeur nie, maar hulle moet in die eerste plek bekommerd wees oor wat in hul harte aan die gang is.

    “Ek glo ons nasie sal verander. Ek sien ’n nuwe Suid-Afrika voor, ’n land van vrede en rustigheid.”

    Buchan het hulle begelei in ’n gebed om hul sondes te bely, hulle opnuut tot God te bekeer en vir Hom te lewe.
    “Die Here is nie hier om jou te veroordeel nie, maar om jou ’n tweede kans te gee.”

    Oor sy eie gesondheid het Buchan gesê mense vra hoe hy voel. Terwyl hy op en af gespring het, het hy herhaaldelik gevra: “Lyk ek siek?”

    Daarop het hy sommer tien opstote op die verhoog gedoen om te wys hoe gesond hy is.

    Past. Bruce Winship, woordvoerder van die saamtrek, het vroeër gesê dis onmoontlik om ’n amptelike bywoningsyfer te gee, maar bygevoeg vanjaar se Mighty Men is groter as ooit.

    Sowat 60 vliegtuie het gister ingeryg gestaan langs die aanloopbaan van die vliegveld ’n paar kilometer van Shalom, terwyl voertuie steeds na die plaas gestroom het.

    Die tentedorp wat die konferensiegangers opgeslaan het, strek oor ’n kampeerterrein van 3miljoen vierkante meter en oor drie plase heen.

    ’n Groot mediese en brandweerspan gaan na die konferensiegangers se veiligheid omsien.

    Eergister is ’n tent deur die wind geskep en teen kragdrade vasgewaai, maar daar was geen ernstige ongevalle nie. Mense wat weens die voorval brandwonde aan hul hande opgedoen het, is hospitaal toe gebring en behandel, waarna hulle ontslaan is.

    Daar was ook ’n ouerige man wat ’n ligte hartaanval gehad het, maar volgens Winship het hy met ’n hartprobleem by die saamtrek aangekom.
    Hier en daar het iemand gistermiddag met ’n koedoehoring geloop en dit iewers gaan blaas.

    Dit word gesien as ’n oproep tot gebed of tot stryd – maar, soos een man gesê het, “nie stryd soos die ANC of Malema nie, maar ’n geestelike stryd”.

  • Elmarie A

    Thanks Amanda for info.

    Angus se preek – Saterdagoggend – 17 April 2010
    “Watchmen of the House”

    (Ek gaan in Oom Angus se huistaal skryf , want die vertaalwerk gaan lank vat)

    Angus begin to say that every man here is ordained by God and that there is a reason why he is here.The main passage in the bible for this event is Ezekiel 3:17-19, to be a watchman for your fellow man,family and the nation.The watchman must warn people to turn from their wicked ways or else their blood will be on your hands.If you do that and they still don’t turn , at least you did the part where you stood up for God and do His will.

    The previous night in the sermon angus read a sentence by some famous man of God who said ” As a man is in his heart , so he sees “. What he meaned by that was the way a man believes in his heart about the world and circumstances will also be the way he sees things through his eyes.The eyes is only a window to the heart.

    The other great thing to remember is to wait on the Lord.Angus first told how he went for a whole week before the event to the woods on his farm , to seek the face of the Lord.He told how a young man from Vryheid drove 4 hours to just tell him one thing. “You are to busy !”

    One of the great missionaries , the well known John Wesley,once said,”I am to busy to be in a hurry.” The lesson being not to do things over and over 10 times but do the things you must do , diligently but without being just busy and not have time for God.

    We must also learn to serve and almost be like a butler or waiter in real life. If there is one thing God hates , it is pride. Angus told the story of a good friend who always as he pass a group of donkeys,will take his hat of and salute them.Angus would ask him for what he is doiing that.His friend replied that the donkey is such a humble animal and the only one with a cross on it’s back, and then it was the animal that brought his King,Jesus Christ into Jerusalem.

    Then Angus read out of II Kings 2.It was about Elijah and Elisha , and the way Elisha served his master.He served him so diligently and never wanted to leave him.In the end he did twice as many miracles as Elijah, but it was his persistance to do God’s will that made him a great prophet.How do we serve the Lord on the moment…

    God is challenging us to become waiters. His eyes are running to and through the crowd to see who are the people willing to serve him.The famous Martin Luther King once was asked what is the three most important things about his life. He just said , humility,humility and humility.

    Angus then gave the whole crowd five minutes to just keep very quiet,close their eyes and listen what God wants to tell them. After that the whole crowd got on their knees and got the chance to repent of their sins and also to commit their lives to serve the Lord Jesus from now onwards.Jesus spend 30 years with His Father before he ministered for three years on earth.

    The service came to an end with thousands of new commitments to Jesus.

    http://mightymen2010.blogspot.com/

  • Elmarie A

    ‘I have seen the change Angus has made’
    Greg Arde
    April 18 2010 at 10:51AM

    There must be some magic in it. Why else would thousands of men travel to camp on a farm in the Midlands to listen to a man in a cowboy hat berate them for not being “mighty”?

    The idea of a men-only gathering in the bush without wives or wine is interesting. Curious, too, is that most of the men are white Afrikaners who have come to listen to a Bible-bashing evangelist who can’t muster more than a few words in Afrikaans and until a few years ago was largely unknown.

    Then consider that the organisers don’t prescribe the age of participating men, because in some cultures, according to Buchan, you are a man if you can shoot a rifle and that could be nine years old. This might seem sinister to some.

    Righteous religious folk are as loved as they are loathed. Consider how people react to wars of faith, Catholic priests fiddling with boys, or thieving, womanising televangelists propping up politicians. The world is fraught with hypocrisy and it stirs people.

    But what has this got to do with Buchan and the thousands of Christian men who have journeyed to his Greytown farm for seven years to seek spiritual guidance?

    Nothing, except that cynics are sceptical of matters of faith.

    The first person to agree is Bruce Winship, a no-nonsense Durban businessman who became a born-again Christian 15 years ago. He was among the 200-odd men who gathered at Buchan’s first Mighty Men Conference and he has attended every one since.

    He has also heard just about every criticism of Buchan, including that he is a false prophet.

    “Angus preaches a simple faith. Potentially it lacks some detail, but the reality of Christianity is that it is a simple message to follow… it’s about being down-to-earth, living an honest, wholesome life and correcting your priorities. I have seen the change that Angus has made in many lives, including my own.”

    Winship says Buchan is not being exclusive in holding men-only gatherings. He believes he was called by God to speak to men.

    “At the end of the day it is not about what your mates say. It is about what your wife and your children say. Do you honour and respect them?”

    Winship says Buchan attracts criticism because he uses evangelical tools, miraculous “signs of wonder”: “Naturally people are sceptical about that. Unless you have heard the message you would regard the whole thing as unusual. But people come back feeling motivated and ready to make the changes in their lives.”

    What of Buchan’s critics who say he advocates unequal relations for men and women in marriage?

    Winship says the conference is as much for women as it is for men. But men need to be mentored by men to accept that they have abdicated their role in society, “and society is paying for it”.

    Former Springbok rugby player Balie Swart says Buchan’s gospel is aimed at restoring families. To those who haven’t attended, the idea of men gathering in the bush sounds “bizarre”.

    “But it is about being humble before God and behaving like a gentleman.”

    Swart said Buchan’s message was about “standing up and being counted” – putting the family at the centre of your life, rejecting injustice and remembering “God is a God of forgiveness”.

    Scott Hamilton, a Durban preacher, says the concept comes from the Old Testament where King David gathered a group of “mighty men” around him who performed great deeds.

    But Hamilton says the event is far from a chest-beating “rah-rah” rally – it’s about being meek. He says men gather in small groups and draw strength from one another, to live better lives. “It’s about humbling ourselves before God. About being less opinionated; it might actually make you less mighty in the world’s eyes.”

    The Reverend Fred Shaw, head of the Wesleyan Methodist Church in South Africa, has no beef with Buchan, but is wary of big evangelical events. “A rock concert and a rugby match can also create a stir and euphoria. It only lasts until bed time.”

    Professor Johannes Smit, head of religious studies at UKZN, says Buchan’s events wouldn’t attract such big numbers if there wasn’t a need. “We should take note of this phenomenon. It is one of a leader who doesn’t have the normal credentials of being a leader… but who has something ordinary people can associate with.”

    Buchan has sold a million inspirational DVDs in the US. He uses the money to hold his rallies. “Not one cent goes to Angus. He lives in the same wattle and daub house that he built on his farm. He drives the same old car. He doesn’t even have medical aid,” Winship says.

    “Unless you hear the message for yourself you’ll never really understand… at some stage in your life you realise there is more to life than putting yourself before others.”

    * This article was originally published on page 6 of Tribune on April 18, 2010

  • Elmarie A

    Who are these mighty men?
    April 18 2010 at 10:49AM

    By Fred Kockott

    Blood warriors, they call themselves. A bunch of Hells Angels look-alikes, but in this case they are dishing out, not punches, but Bibles, in pocket book format titled “Hope for the Highway”.

    “It’s our armour,” says Francois du Plessis, referring to the motorcycle ministries’ motto emblazoned on the back of his biker’s jacket – Ephesians 6:10-20.

    Du Plessis is among several hundred thousand – estimates range from 250 000 to 300 000 – men and boys who are gathered on a cluster of farms outside Greytown for Angus Buchan’s final “Mighty Men” conference at Shalom Ministries near Greytown.

    Scary, freakish stuff, many say of this new evangelical cult sweeping through South Africa’s countryside – and beyond.

    “Fifty-two planes have booked in. There’s a steady stream of traffic from all directions. Stage is set. Camp commanders are ready. Medics and doctors on site and standing by. Helicopters are fetching and carrying men and supplies into camps,” said a volunteer organiser, Bruce Winship, of Durban.

    This was early Friday. By the evening, Winship said it was impossible to say how many people had pitched, but when Buchan took to the stage at 7pm he said history was being made.

    “I have farmed maize. I’ve seen a lot of mielies, but I’ve never seen a crop of people as big as this,” Buchan told his fervent worshippers, which included Springbok coach Peter de Villiers and ardent fans blowing vuvuzelas – the original kudu horn type.

    While the exclusion of women from the event has attracted criticism, and many jokes are best not repeated, Buchan made his feelings clear during his sermons.

    “When men go off to war, women stay at home,” Buchan said, exhorting the audience to abandon wanton ways of the modern world, and spread the gospel of Christ.

    And as he spoke, Dirk Venter and Frank Moran, translated his words into sign language. “We are here in the name of Deaf Friendly, an inter-denominational fellowship.”

    Buchan said this weekend’s gathering at Shalom Ministry outside Greytown would be the last Mighty Men conference to be held there.

    He said this was according to a message he had received from God.

    But, he said conferences would continue to be held elsewhere, in South Africa and beyond.

    Buchan said: “You cannot love God with hatred inside you. This is church, boy. This is why we are here, to get answers from God. I have never had such big vrede (freedom)… ukuthula (peace).

    “There is a gentle spirit blowing through this place. I want you to open your heart this weekend. When we go home, we’ve got to sort some business out… We need to stand up and call sin by its name,” said Buchan referring to adultery, sex outside marriage and hatred.

    “Jesus took 12 men and changed the world. I see hundreds of thousands of men in this place. We need to seize the moment. The future of South Africa, indeed the world, lies in the believer, in your hands and my hands. God is asking you ‘what are you going to do about it?’.”

    In a sermon yesterday Buchan called on people to be patient and “wait upon the Lord”.
    Scary, freakish stuff, many say of this new evangelical cult sweeping through South Africa’s countryside – and beyond.

    “Fifty-two planes have booked in. There’s a steady stream of traffic from all directions. Stage is set. Camp commanders are ready. Medics and doctors on site and standing by. Helicopters are fetching and carrying men and supplies into camps,” said a volunteer organiser, Bruce Winship, of Durban.

    This was early Friday. By the evening, Winship said it was impossible to say how many people had pitched, but when Buchan took to the stage at 7pm he said history was being made.

    “I have farmed maize. I’ve seen a lot of mielies, but I’ve never seen a crop of people as big as this,” Buchan told his fervent worshippers, which included Springbok coach Peter de Villiers and ardent fans blowing vuvuzelas – the original kudu horn type.

    While the exclusion of women from the event has attracted criticism, and many jokes are best not repeated, Buchan made his feelings clear during his sermons.

    “When men go off to war, women stay at home,” Buchan said, exhorting the audience to abandon wanton ways of the modern world, and spread the gospel of Christ.

    And as he spoke, Dirk Venter and Frank Moran, translated his words into sign language. “We are here in the name of Deaf Friendly, an inter-denominational fellowship.”

    Buchan said this weekend’s gathering at Shalom Ministry outside Greytown would be the last Mighty Men conference to be held there.

    He said this was according to a message he had received from God.

    But, he said conferences would continue to be held elsewhere, in South Africa and beyond.

    Buchan said: “You cannot love God with hatred inside you. This is church, boy. This is why we are here, to get answers from God. I have never had such big vrede (freedom)… ukuthula (peace).

    “There is a gentle spirit blowing through this place. I want you to open your heart this weekend. When we go home, we’ve got to sort some business out… We need to stand up and call sin by its name,” said Buchan referring to adultery, sex outside marriage and hatred.

    “Jesus took 12 men and changed the world. I see hundreds of thousands of men in this place. We need to seize the moment. The future of South Africa, indeed the world, lies in the believer, in your hands and my hands. God is asking you ‘what are you going to do about it?’.”

    In a sermon yesterday Buchan called on people to be patient and “wait upon the Lord”.

    * This article was originally published on page 6 of Tribune on April 18, 2010

  • Elmarie A

    Mighty Men event may move to Soweto

    April 19 2010 at 09:18AM
    By Sibusiso Mboto
    Pietermaritzburg Bureau

    Next year’s Mighty Men Conference could be held in Soweto, following the decision by Greytown preacher Angus Buchan to stop hosting the annual event in his hometown after a run of seven years.

    While the next venue has not been formalised, Buchan indicated that there was interest from preachers to hold the event in Gauteng but said that it was premature to give details.

    Organising the conference was a daunting task, which carried with it physical, psychological and spiritual demands, and it was time for others to take over the project, but Buchan indicated his willingness to help by providing the required infrastructure to anyone planning such a gathering

    Briefing the media two hours after giving his last sermon yesterday, Buchan said the conference would no longer feature in his schedule, but he was aiming at a daily television slot to spread the gospel.

    “The important thing now is that people do not want religion, what they seek are answers and gatherings like these provide them.”

    Buchan downplayed estimates of the number of people who had attended the conference – which varied from 250 000 to 350 000 – saying simply that he was pleased with the turnout.

    “There is not a single stadium in the world that would have accommodated all the people who were here this weekend. The rewarding thing is that huge sums of money were not spent on advertising,” he said.

    Zodwa Mhlongo, 36, was saddened by the news that the conference would no longer be held in Greytown, saying the three-day event enabled her to earn money. She was among the many people who helped with the logistics, gathering grass that had been cut and baled for the conference.

    Mhlongo also collected the five-litre water bottles left behind after the conference. “I sell them in town. You will be surprised how many people need them to buy paraffin or petrol,” she said.

    * This article was originally published on page 2 of The Mercury on April 19, 2010

  • Elmarie A

    About the Soweto MMC. This will kick of at the new soccer stadium in 2011, I’m pretty sure. And then they will use all the new stadiums country wide. Also a thought there will be more than one MMC held not just one for the year 2011. They now have how many new stadiums?? The crowds will be enormous. hmmmmmm gimme your thoughts please.

  • Pastor.Neelam.SuvarnaRaju

    My dear Beloved in Christ,
    Greetings to you in the wonderful name of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ .first of all I praise God that he has privileged me to write this letter with generous and Godly people like you for yours kind consideration of yours precious prayer supports and co-operation with me in our ministry. Iam very grateful to you, and God has privileged me, first of all I would like to introduce my self that Iam Pastor.NEELAM.SUVARNARAJU by the call given by the Lord Jesus Christ with faith and trust. God blessed me with lovely and precious wife and two lovely daughters. we are dedicated our lives to serve the Lord we are doing Gods service since 1998.Our ministry is mainly based on Gospel work in rural and tribal and remote slum areas God spokes with us through Mark-16:15,we are reaching the village and tribal people.
    We are sharing the Good news of Jesus with these people. On our ministry be half, as Almighty, God, God has given us abundant strength for the last 12years together along with our fellow pastors. We had Two own churches between the tribal peoples called yanadi, and also we had 12 fellow church congregations in 12 rural villages. We are doing street evangelism. Every Month we are visiting one rural village, we are walking on the streets, praising the Lord with spiritual songs, Distributing tracts, after we are conducting special prayer meeting. In that prayer meeting God is changing so many village people receiving Jesus as their personal savior in their lives. After the prayer meeting we are conducting free medical camp with qualified Doctors for the poor and needy village people. We are distributing medicines freely for these villages’ people who are not able to buy medicines for their sickness. By the grace of God is giving us opportunity God has privileged us, every year we are conducting Open Air Gospel Meetings and also Youth retreats, hundreds of peoples are attending in these Gospel Meetings and Crusades and receiving Jesus as their personal savior through our gospel work in India. As part of our social work, according to James-1:27, Proverbs-19:17, Psalms-41:1, 2 with our limited might and resources, since 2005 we are taking care maintaning the poor and needy orphan tribal children who are living in very pathetic condition. All these tribal families are living at the street sides and living very little huts covering with plastic covers. Some of these tribal people who don’t have huts, they are living under the shadows of the trees. All these children are going for begging at the street sides for the food. Some of these children are going for collecting the waste papers at the street sides, and selling at the shops for the food and biscuits.
    They don’t have proper clothes to wear. They are not able to study; through the Lords leading we are maintaining 25 tribal orphan children in a rented House. we are providing them accommodation, food clothing, education and necessary medical care and attention as Jesus said at Matt-18:4-6, Matt-19:4 and also we are under taking some welfare measures, for 15 poor rural widows who are rejected by their family members, and who are living at bus stands, railway platforms, and who are begging on the streets for their food, every month we used to provided these poor widows provisions and 100Rs for their medical needs. By the grace of God, we are also helping 16 HIV/AIDS patients, who are rejected by their family members, who are in needy position; we are providing medicines, nutrient food regularly on monthly basis.
    My dear Beloved in Christ.
    At this moment we need your precious prayer supports to our ministry. We are doing our ministry completely based on faith only we don’t have any help from any where. At this moment we are looking and see king Gods help to our ministry through Godly people like you. In this regard we earnestly wish yours leadership and guidance to our ministry. We sincerely praying for yours welfare and prosperity we are urging you and praying for you, If Lord will leads our and talks with you about our ministry, through His living spirit, If God provides you an opportunity and resources, please feel free, for which work you Inspired through leading of our Lord, we are warmly and cordially inviting you to make a visit to India to share the word of God, in our church and your precious.
    Gospel preaching’s highly mandatory, with pleasure. It is our humble request, please kindly pray for us, our congregations and also our co-pastors, fellow pastors, and poor orphan and destitute tribal children, poor rural widows, and also HIV/AIDS effected patients in your regular and personal prayers. At this moment we need your fellowship, If God will leads you, we earnestly request you please stretch your generous hands in to our humble ministry for the extension of the kingdom of God in India through Godly people like you please convey our heartily and lovely greetings to all your family members to all your fellow workers who are cooperating with you in your ministry and work. We are praying and awaiting for your further the most valuable, and prayerful and fruitful response at an earliest in this regard, with prayerfully in Jesus.
    Thanking you,
    Yours Brother in His mighty service,
    Pastor.NEELAM.SUVARNARAJU
    P.S. Lord willing and if you are interested to view our pictures showing the activities of our Ministry. Iam prepared to forward the same by next mail on hearing from you soon.

  • Elmarie A

    Archived from NEWS+VIEWS page JULY 7, 2009 ———–

    Elza Meyer To Save 10 Million Souls Because of Demonic Attack

    Elza Meyer from Moreleta Park Dutch Reformed Church had this to say… “During the Eastern Cape conference demons attacked my body. We were unable to break the effect thereof until I phoned my son, Pieter, late that night asking him to pray for me. He claimed 10 million souls, saved and baptized in exchange for the attack on my life. It immediately stopped. The Moreleta Park congregation was led to formulate a new goal for the congregation, namely 10 million souls within ten years. The overriding aim is to reach 10 million souls with the Gospel and to make them disciples of Jesus Christ.”

    ***WATCHMAN…I have been in deliverance for years and this is in ERROR – they made a PACT WITH SATAN – NOT GOD…

  • Michael

    I have no doubt that deception (mixing truth with lies) is the most abominal form of all man’s sins and eniquities…it is the very voice of Satan himself in the garden of Eden and not only deceives the lost, but the elect…not to mention the faith of little children. May God have mercy and lead us out of this mess.
    Deb’s I salute you for your honesty and courage in going to war against these deceptions.
    Satan is serving the church with what appears to be”delicious spiritual food but it is laced with deadly spiritual poison “…because we do not read the precautions (the bible correctly and in context and obey the instructions therein.)

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