The Rapture – An Article to Knock Your Socks Off
The Time Has Come to debunk those errors regarding the Rapture not taking place.
I was raised in a family that followed Word of Faith teaching (yet I rebelled and went on my own left hand path at about the age of 13). When I realised I needed Jesus Christ in my life (much later in my life unfortunately) and was born again the ‘rapture’ was just part of something that I had heard about in passing – I was actually oblivious to Christian doctrine, including the doctrine of imminency.
After I was saved and battled to find churches to go too, I hit the internet in search of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This was where I read up about PreTribulation and also PostTribulation (where Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation with no rapture of the church before that) And then just to put another spanner in the works, I heard about Amillennialism. Boy, oh boy.
So I started researching the Word of God and I started my research with Amillennialism, after 10 minutes of goggling I realised that Amillennialism was completely and utterly wrong.
I then went and looked at the Post Tribulation scenario. What I found interesting was that the Post Tribulation supporters use their verses to back up this idea but exclude the verses that point to the Rapture (or being caught up where the born again Christians will meet Jesus Christ in the air before the wrath of God is meted out on earth). I read so many PostTribulation websites and studied their little diagrams and it just didn’t make sense. I emailed 2 ministries in which I included many PreTribulation (Rapture) verses in my email and asked them to include them into their articles and they refused. The reason: They had enough Biblical scripture to prove Post Tribulation without having to include vital scripture that refuted what they say. How convenient I thought.
So there I was back at Pre Tribulation, still researching and knowing deep down all along that this was correct and that Jesus Christ the Son of God is coming back SOON to take His children away. At the end of the Great Tribulation He will return a 2nd time , this time setting foot on earth and crushing the enemy.
This is the reason for my blog, to warn people because I can’t handle the fact that many people I know like family, friends will be left behind and have to face delusion, confusion, terror and utter hopelessness in their minds as to what happened and try cope with the after effects.
That very moment will be unlike anything the world has ever experienced, and it gets worse. Much worse. Mass HORROR, mass MURDER, mass TORTURE, mass INCOMPREHENSIBLE evil will take place. Matthew 24:21 “21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
At the same time I rejoice for I know that I am going to see Jesus Christ the Son of God, my King, my Lord, my Saviour, the ONE I love so much, the ONE who gave HIS life for me, the ONE who SAVED my life. I am going to see HIM SOON face to face. How awesome is that. I can’t wait.
We are in a time in history unlike anything ever seen before. Never in the last 10 years would I have ever thought that I would be alive to witness this. The (bride of Christ, i.e., born again Christians) being caught up to meet Jesus in the air.
Jesus said He would come when we least expect it. Generally the least expected thing happens when everything is going relatively well.
Matthew 24:37-41 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matthew 24:44 44 “For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
During the rapture, Jesus Christ does NOT come down to earth. (So it is not considered His Second Coming). The dead in Christ rise first and then the body of Christ are caught up to meet Jesus Christ in the CLOUDS /AIR. 1 Thess, 4:16-18 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Jesus tells us that we are to COMFORT one another with this WONDERFUL passage of scripture.
Everything will happen very fast, so fast that it will be 1 Cor 15:52 “52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye…”
The bible tells us that even though we do not know exactly when Jesus is coming back to take the his church home Matthew 25:13 13“Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.”
He tells us to BE ON ALERT as we will see the day approaching (Biblical prophecy fulfilled) and as the day approaches we are to ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER. Hebrews 10:25: “25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.”
So it is clear that born again Christians will know that the day that Jesus Christ returns draws nearer and nearer. If not, Jesus would not tell us to BE ON ALERT at all times and for us to watch and pray that we do not fall into temptation. Matthew 26:41 41“Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Jesus promised us He will look after us, because He paid the price for us – we are not destined for God’s wrath during the Tribulation. 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “9For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ”
We are NOT destined to be TESTED Revelation 3:10 10 ‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Our focus should be on Jesus Christ our Blessed Hope and we are not be disturbed by the things going on around as. Titus 2:13 “13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus”
Do you fear that there is something terrible going on in the world but you do not know what it is? Do you remember someone speaking to you about Jesus and you brushed them off as talking a load of nonsense? Do you know the name of Jesus Christ in your mind, but your heart’s not interested because you prefer the ways of the world and sin? Do you want to know why you fear that there is something horrible coming this way? Do you want to change your ways and ask Jesus to forgive you for your sinful life so that you my enter God’s presence spotless.
Do you want to drop everything you are doing right now and speak to Jesus Christ the Son of God? Tell Him you are a sinner, tell Him you want to change your ways. Tell him you have disobeyed Him, but you ask for forgiveness for everything you have done and you are so sorry. Tell Jesus that you know and believe that He died on the cross for you as a sacrifice for your sin, and that He rose again 3 days later and ascended with a physical body into heaven. Tell Jesus that you want Him to come into your life, and make you a new person. Tell Jesus that you love him, honestly and truthfully with all your heart, mind and soul. Humble yourself before your KING as a sinner who does not deserve to be saved. But because of the love that God has for HIS creation, that is you, He created you. When you truly and utterly come to Jesus Christ and repent, God truly and utterly forgives you and you are saved.
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See all articles on the rapture here
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Deborah,
I agree with most of your theology, except on this matter. There are many reasons some people get so hyped about this debate, I’ll name a few:
1. Because pretrib theory is false doctrine. It’s only been taught in the church for the last 200 years or so and was brought about by an Irvingite false prophecy.
2. It mostly leads the flock to complacency with their Lord, thinking they have a golden ticket that will keep them from tribulation. (Not saying you, but there are many)
3. It will lead to the falling away mentioned in scripture. When people have to endure tribulation, they will wonder why they didn’t get whisked away. They will feel they believed a lie among many and be more susceptible to the whim’s of the false religion/false prophet/antichrist.
4. The thought of the great tribulation is terrifying and the person must gather scripture to support their view so as to alleviate the stress of immense persecution in their future.
Remember, if Jesus was persecuted, so shall we be. A servant is not greater than his master.
5. Trials and tribulation are part of refining: scripture is below:
Zechariah 13:9 >>
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Psalm 66:10
For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.
Please, Read one sentence above your 16-18 reference in Thessalonians. It will shine more light on the subject.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 -18
15According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.
It’s funny, because last night I was reading 1Thessalonians, and found it odd that my study bible dismissed an important part of scripture and the connection. Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 ” According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord,”
My study bible said this must have been an unknown revelation that Paul was referring to about “According to the Lord’s own word”.
Of course I scoffed, because I knew right away what Paul was referencing as “the Lord’s own word”
He was referring to scripture in Matthew 24:30-31
30″At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Notice, to get to this part of Matthew 24, you have to get through the tribulation, falling away and the presentation of the Antichrist, before you get to Christ’s second coming.
Other areas that pretrib theory use is the mention of ‘saints’ and ‘wrath’. We’ve been called saints all through the bible, so that’s a weak argument. There’s not a special set of saints in Revelation, except for maybe the 144,000, which I’m not sure who they are. I’ve heard many theories and have not come to a conclusion.
God’s wrath is aimed toward unrepentant sinners in the end times, who refused to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The bowls of wrath in Revelation, the Lords army conquering, not being found in the Book of the Lamb and then finally being cast into the lake of fire is the wrath of God, not the Great Tribulation.
A secret coming, (pretrib rapture) is extra biblical. It is adding to scripture, which we are commanded not to do. Deborah, I respect many of your stances but please, this pretrib stance should be considered as a possible emotional response to what’s coming down the road and not really the truth.
In your response that people cling to post trib because they are “not ready”, is not a real convincing argument. Believe me, if Jesus wanted to come back now…Hallelujah! ..I’m glad not to go through suffering … but scripture shows me otherwise. It was hard at first for me to realize and stomach what’s really in-store for the Body of Christ, but I know that the Lord Jesus Christ is with me…even until the end of the age. You have to be ready in your heart to know you’re going to go through tribulation. I know that I should not worry what I will say or do if that day comes and I’m to be persecuted or martyred, but I know that the Lord’s Holy Spirit will do the work for me… because scripture tells me so and that is what brings me comfort. Believe me, there’s nothing easy about a post trib outlook, but a pretrib could be detrimental to a weak faith.
I believe that if your pretrib stance is proven false, that your faith will remain intact (praise God), but many other’s faith won’t.
Please prayerfully consider what it is you may be promoting.
Thank you for your time. 🙂
servant
I thought like you did at one point in time. I’ve been through all your points and thought and studied them for the last 2 years. And I landed back up at Pre-Trib.
First, you confuse the Church with Israel. This is a Latter Rain teaching, that the Church is Israel.
The Bible says that those who think they are Israel are the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9 “…..I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.”
I am promoting nothing that is not scriptural. If people’s faith is that weak that if they were to see the tribulation and dump Jesus Christ because of it, then they were not saved to begin with. There is no such thing as weak faith. You are either saved or you are not. You are either cold or hot. There is no such thing as being partially saved. Simple.
Matthew 24:44 “Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh”
The only time frame when believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation. It’s a just a little bit obvious when all nations have marched and decended on Israel. This would be a clear sign to born again Christians that Jesus is about to appear any second. No real surprises there.
>> It will lead to the falling away mentioned in scripture.
We are in the falling away. Quite far into it already.
>> There’s not a special set of saints in Revelation, except for maybe the 144,000, which I’m not sure who they are.
They are 144,000 Jewish evangelists SEALED by God. So they are a SPECIAL set of Saints.
Revelation 7:4 “4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
The 2 witnesses during the tribulation are Elijah and Moses. They are for the Jewish people ONLY. It would take Elijah and Moses to get the Jews to see that Jesus Christ the Son of God is indeed their MESSIAH. Because this is what the OT prophets were speaking about all along – Jesus Christ. Gentiles (the church at is stands right now) do not need to worry about Elijah and Moses – however they are revered as GREAT prophets by Israel and by seeing Elijah and Moses in the flesh they with will know that God is with them again.
Revelation 11:1-4 “1 And there was given me a reed like to a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given to the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth.”
Notice that the Gentiles will be attacking Jerusalem and God will count (measure) the Jews who are the ‘temple of God’. This again points to the fact that the Christian church (and those handfull of Jews who are saved at this moment in time) will be raptured BEFORE the tribulation.
servant
>> 1. Because pretrib theory is false doctrine. It’s only been taught in the church for the last 200 years or so and was brought about by an Irvingite false prophecy.
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The Margaret MacDonald Origin
One of the most widely circulated attacks against the pre-trib rapture is the notion that a girl named Margaret MacDonald started this theological view back in 1830. The claim is typically made that MacDonald received a demonic vision, passed it on to John Darby, who in turn popularized it. Disproving this assertion proves rather easy. Pre-trib scholars have discovered a host of rapture writings that predate Margaret MacDonald.
Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, “For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
One post-trib author offered a reward to anyone who could find a quote that predated MacDonald. He had to quickly cough up the money when someone identified a scholar who wrote about the pre-trib rapture several years before MacDonald. As of late, dozens of examples have been found, and the literary surface has hardly been scratched.
With the revealing of all these pre-MacDonald writings, you would think that this argument has been debunked. Unfortunately, this is not the case. We seem to be involved in a tug-of-war with the truth. Apparently, due to their lack of research, pre-trib opponents continue to pump out publications that cite MacDonald as the originator of the pre-trib rapture.
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AND I HAVE EVEN AN EARLIER date than this. His name was NOAH, and it’s in the Bible too 😉
You see the catch is. Because Word of Faith/Latter Rain used to preach Pre-Trib and because we now know that Latter Rain teaching is false we assume that the Rapure is now false to. And this is not so.
The difference is, is that Latter Rain expect another Christ, born again Christians expect Jesus Christ the Son of God.
servant
The word of God clearly states that believers will escape the tribulation that will be like HELL on earth – You guys that want to go through this persecution have no idea what the tribulation is going to be like. You have no idea what the demonic world is like. I was in the occult for many years and I have seen things that I never want to see again.
Jesus gives us peace and a sound mind. He also says:
1 Thessalonians 5:9 “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”
Rev 3:10 “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev 3:10).
There will be the luke warm, the one who sat on the fence, who knew about Jesus Christ but preferred the world who will go through the tribulation. This number will be huge that will find themselves in a predicament unlike anything they ever wished to experience. They will suffer and it’s a terrible thing to say and even think about.
This is why we WARN people.
servant
Oh and here is more proof that there are 2 different goups of people caught up: One before the tribulation where we are caught up to meet him in the air and then the one when Jesus comes down setting foot on earth.
After the 7 tribulation is over and Jesus Christ is of course victorious. He conquered Satan from the beginning already. in Heaven there appeared ANOTHER multitude of people who were saved and washed by the Blood of Jesus.
Revelation 7:9
9 After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And one of the Elders in Heaven is confused… wondering where these people came from:
Revelation 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and from where came they? 14 And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sits on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the middle of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them to living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
These are the ones who will go through the tribulation and are saved during this time, and God shall wipe away ALL TEARS from their eyes due to the pain and suffering they had to endure.
servant
Pre-trib
Regarding 1 Thessalonians 4:15 -18 (including v 15)
15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
1) Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians who thought that they had already entered the tribulation and was telling them that it was no so.
2) 1 command
3) 1 voice of 1 ARCHANGEL
4) 1 trumpet call of God
5) dead in Christ are those who are saved and have died prior to the start of the tribulation. Yes, even those who died yesterday and were saved are in slumber
6) the remaining will be caught up to meet Jesus Christ in the air, this is the current born again church who are still alive today.
7) you can’t have Jesus Christ coming down to earth and then us being caught up TO HIM in the AIR. That means we go up and then come back down again at the same time. Or we miss each other. Makes absolutely NO sense what-so-ever.
Post-Trib
Matthew 24:30-31
30 ″At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
1) Nations gathered attacking Israel
2) Jesus appears in the sky with all power and great glory
3) Nations have a nervous breakdown and mourn because they were wrong all along.
4) God sends out MORE THAN one angel and ANOTHER trumpet call (different to the first one of the rapture)
5) They gather the elect from the 4 corners of the earth as mentioned below in Isaiah
6) Jesus has come down to earth, the elect are garthered unto him. It does not say they were caught up to meet him in the air.
7) Satan is chained and thrown into the pit.
Isaiah 43:3-9
JEWS / ISRAEL DURING THE TRIBULATION
3 For I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I give Egypt for your ransom, Cusha and Seba in your stead.
4 Since you are precious and honored in my sight, and because I love you, I will give men in exchange for you, and people in exchange for your life.
5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’ Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
7 everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.”
8 Lead out those who have eyes but are blind, who have ears but are deaf.
9 All the nations gather together and the peoples assemble. Which of them foretold this and proclaimed to us the former things?
Let them bring in their witnesses to prove they were right, so that others may hear and say, “It is true.”
servant
As in the days of Noah
Matthew 24:36-39
36“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man
Right, again no surprises here.
BEFORE THE FLOOD (tribulation). People carrying on doing their thing, happily unaware that Jesus Christ the Son of God would return and take away those who were born again. The days of Noah were very sinful; sin, wicked, crime, corruption, idolatry, homosexuality, men not adhering to a single commandment as written in the Word of God.
But Noah he was obeying God, he built his ark as God commanded and they waited, “they knew nothing about what would happen” until the flood came and God rescued them took them all away. Now remember it rained, and it rained hard, it did not just flood and whoosh everyone was destroyed. There was confusion, fear, panic as it rained and did not stop raining, and the water rose higher.
Those who knew about Noah and his ark (and were left behind) were most definitely THINKING SERIOUSLY about Noah and his ridiculous tale of God telling him to build an ark (just like those who are doing their best to refute that Jesus will come and take us away before the flood (tribulation) AND THAT IS HOW it will be at the coming of the Son of Man .
Just like born again Christians today (like Noah and his family). We watch and we wait and we pray. We know the time is near, we just don’t know when.
Now if all the world is descending on Israel, it’s pretty obvious.
Ok, I think that should keep everyone thinking for a good while. So start warning. Thank you 🙂
Lourens
>>icw -“I sent out an email the other day regarding old Angus. Whew! Did I get hammered for that one. But hey: Truth is TRUTH!”
On this link is an open letter Angus Buchan. Writtten by Alan Lester. It is 49 pages long he he alot of reading, but interesting. Just find “Open letter to Angus Buchan” the 3rd item in page.
People dont like to hear the truth spoken. We all here know why. The minute u speak the Truth People think you atack them.
Blessings
[EDITED by DTW: And all my articles on him here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/category/angus-buchan-shalom-ministries/
I must post that one by Alan Lester, I keep forgetting though.]
Hey Deborah,
Thanks for responding. I think in some of your comments you’re trying to prove a rapture exists, I do agree with you on that, we just differ on timing. I believe there will be a rapture, we will get ‘caught up’, gathered to him…but at the end. Not pre-trib.
I also know that both of us are not going to budge on our stance, but I’m posting this for others to see why we see what we see and then it is for them to go to God with.
So, I’ll try to do my best to refute what stood out to me in some of your comments and why.
To your account about pre-trib and it’s Latter Rain roots, sorry, it is what it is, they still promote this teaching and that should give you pause.
I did say that there were no ‘special’ set of saints EXCEPT for 144,000…and these are sealed from the 12 tribes of Israel. That’s all that’s said about them. But people like to make many assumptions about more then that. I take it for what it says. The 2 witness’ as well. Do I believe that the 2 witness’ are just for Jews…no.
Not sure what you’re getting at with the church and Israel reference. When Paul says ‘we’, he’s referring to the church. So don’t tell me it’s the jews alone in some parts and us gentiles in others. Once we are believers, we are neither jew nor gentile.
Here’s the full scripture you’re talking about, Revelation 2:8-11:
8″To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
I’m sorry, but that one part “I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.” Could be saying exactly what it’s saying. Jesus has experienced the slander of these so called jews. Nobody is talking about Israel, it is the reference to someone saying they are a Jew possibly in a ritual, national sense. Instead they are a pretender who’s really from the Synagogue of Satan. Honestly, I think He is referring to the Pharisees or people like them. Remember how Jesus referred to them as a brood of vipers and said they make their converts even more sons of hell than themselves. Also notice, directly after that verse, verse 10 says Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Interesting statement, considering our topic. Anyways, I’m not sure what the Latter Rain teaching is about the Church and Israel, but I know what the bible says concerning who Israel (the people, not the land) is, I think you should read Romans 11. I’ll post it for all to see: (For all reading, please read this scripture carefully so that you will not miss what the Holy Spirit is saying)
Romans 11
The Remnant of Israel
1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3″Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.[c]
7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day.”[d] 9And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”[e]
Ingrafted Branches
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel Will Be Saved
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Doxology
33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and[i] knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34″Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”[j]
35″Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay him?”[k]
36For from him and through him and to him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
In one of your comments, you say:
“1) Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians who thought that they had already entered the tribulation and was telling them that it was no so.”
Why would paul have to tell them they weren’t in The Great Tribulation if we aren’t supposed to go through it? He would just say, “don’t worry about that, you’re not going to go through it.” Why would they assume they were to go through the Great Tribulation?
Don’t dismiss the words in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 ” According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord,”
I’ve heard the Noah reference before and it doesn’t make any sense.? He was not taken from this earth, he was protected by the Ark, but then the flood and destruction receded and everything was new again. Plus, notice everyone else was taken out by God’s wrath, not Noah. Actually, if you think about it, Noah and his family were ‘left behind’, they were delivered from the wrath, but not taken completely out of the way. The wicked people were completely wiped out and then God started over, just as he will at the very end. I get the whole, “it will be like in the days of Noah” considering the debauchery and wickedness. But it seems like people are adding to this story of God’s provision to those who follow Him and slapping on pre-trib rapture allegory.
Your reference to Rev 3:10 “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev 3:10).
Do you use “hour of temptation” to refer to the tribulation? What is tempting about tribulation?? The only thing I can think that will be tempting is to take the mark so you don’t have to go through the tribulation.
The Tribulation will be hard for believers and people that don’t submit to the Beast system, but it will be peaceful for a time for the people that do take the mark. That’s why they’ll be marrying and giving in marriage..so on and so on. That’s the whole lure of the mark, don’t you get it? Take the mark and go back to your comfortable Utopian life. Don’t take the mark, well, you will be chased and hunted down like dogs, imprisoned and/or tortured/killed for what you believe. I’m sorry this doesn’t sit well with you, but Christians have been enduring persecution and tribulation for ages and will be so till the end of the age. Remember WWII. People ate and drank and married during that time, while atrocities were going on in their back yard. People do a good job of looking the other way when their comfort is at stake.
Honestly, you prove the whole motive of your stance by saying this:
“The word of God clearly states that believers will escape the tribulation that will be like HELL on earth – You guys that want to go through this persecution have no idea what the tribulation is going to be like. You have no idea what the demonic world is like. I was in the occult for many years and I have seen things that I never want to see again.”
It seems that’s why you kept searching for pre-trib loopholes. Just because I don’t want to go through the tribulation, doesn’t mean I won’t. I don’t want to go through tribulation/persecution any more than you or the next person. Who wants to go through persecution??? But, it’s necessary for what God wants to do, so I submit and pray that God will keep me from being a coward when the heat gets turned up. Just like all the refining scripture I posted in my last post, it is a necessary process.
Here’s an interesting little piece about what the refining process does:
A silversmith explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest to burn away all impurities. He had to sit and hold the silver in front of the fire all the time, and watch the silver all the time. But how does the silver smith know when the silver is fully refined? The silversmith answered saying, “Oh, that’s easy – when I see my image in it.”
You’re implications about people with weak faith, are somewhat correct, although there is reference to the weaker brother, or weak faith in the bible when it comes to observing holidays, rituals, eating, works etc. Faith is a whole other topic, so I’ll try to say it this way; the ‘cultural christians’ will fall away (are currently falling away as well) because you are correct that there wasn’t a real relationship there to begin with, but they were still on the path to hopefully be convicted and receive Jesus Christ but that opportunity goes out the door when they realize that their golden ticket pre-trib rapture was a lie. Just like all the wounded sheep from the current false doctrines and false movements, many leave the faith because of the lies, never to return. That’s why truth is so important.
I don’t understand why you don’t see this debate as a real issue. Why warn people about anything (like you do on your site) if there’s not a hope for them to turn to Jesus Christ and to not be deceived? You warn about all kinds of false doctrine for a reason, yet you throw that reasoning out the window when it comes to this pre-trib stuff. Why?
The sheep should always be told to endure till the end…no matter what you experience and no matter what the persecution. That’s why pre-trib theory is dangerous, because it doesn’t do that.
Yes, we should warn till our last breath, Jesus is coming back soon. I agree with you there. But when He comes back, there will be no turning back. A pre-trib (secret) rapture, gives an appearance of warning everyone he’s coming back but partially (although scripture says everyone will see His coming). With pre-trib theory you still have 7 years to get it together if you get ‘left behind’. But if you go with pretrib rapture theory then you can’t have the Holy Spirit around for the next 7 years, so I don’t understand how anybody gets saved during that time then (because it’s the Holy Spirit that convicts). Scripture says that people are martyred for their faith during The Great Tribulation. So which is right? Pre-trib theory or scripture?
When I say “be careful what you’re promoting”, I say it because you have many people looking at your site and who listen to what you say. You have become a teacher in a public forum. Whether you say it’s just opinion, there are people that value what you say, and unfortunately because they trust your opinion, may not test everything. You are held accountable and responsible for what you feed the sheep. That is scriptural. That’s all I’m saying.
I understand Deborah, that we can go round and round with this to the point of exhaustion and elevating ego. I have my points, you have yours. I believe we’ll have to agree to disagree. But for the sake of anyone who’s reading, I think our posts should be left up for people to consider and to go to God about.
Thank you for your time.
You leave me very confused, on the one hand is IHOP-KC with very scriptural teaching, plus some rather questionable mystical things. On the other is you, the complete opposite in almost everything beyond basic catechismic beliefs, with some really good scripture points, but also some rather twisted ones. I believe that both of you are genuinely seeking God from your speech and actions, yet you come to such different ends. There are other things, the deep unsettledness I feel from your rather to-common il-logical statements and conclusions, yet for all the hype and seeming longing after God and working of the Holy Spirit at Onething ’09 the rather poor (musically, vocally, and enthusiastically) worship at youth group touched my heart so much more with Truths of God’s Word. (“He sees the depths of my heart and He loves me the same” -Isn’t that amazing, God sees us fully, yet he loves us wretched things.)
Anyway, I’m still starting on that responses to the comments leveled at me, and maybe later will have the time to go through your dialouge on pre/post trib rapture.
A wondering sinner Saved by Grace:
Jackson
servant
Not once on this blog have I ever told anyone to follow or adhere to what I say, I tell them to go to the Word of God. By you posting your comment you are also teaching in a public forum and people will listen to what you say and I am sure they value what you say too. No one trusts my opinion. If they do then that is not my problem, when they are to TEST everything I SAY as GOD COMMANDS in HIS WORD. You are holding me accountable for voicing my opinion about Pre-Trib, do you hold yourself accountable for your opinions. I don’t hold you accoutnable. It’s your opinion.
As I said before, I think this is the third time now. If any of us see the tribulation and loses faith then they where not saved to begin with. But if people are watching for the very end and are not ready now thinking they still have time to live like the world does, well that is a big problem too.
You come here and actually insult me when all I am doing is trying to place an urgency in people’s lives that they live each day as though Jesus were to come back the next second.
So thank you for your time, and this post and blog will remain up until Jesus Christ the Son of God comes back.
Jackson
What on earth are you talking about. You are speaking about IHOP. And no commentes were levelled against you. You asked me a question and I answered it VERY NICELY. In fact Michael and Jean asked you very good questions in a very nice way. Good grief. If that’s the case what about the comment you just ‘levelled’ against me. Nothing but insults is what you said.
Never the less, based on this comment and previous ones under the Mike Bickle IHOP posts you seem to have no problem with contemplative spirutality and seperating Jesus Christ from the Word of God as you stated. “But it’s not about adherence to the Word of God, it’s about Faith in the Christ.”
Please move on. Thank you.
I will post this comment of yours under to the IHOP post as well: IHOP – Contemplative Prayer Taught at Healing Rooms
Deborah
Yes it is great idea to post that Alan Lester open letter to Angus.
Blessings
@ Jackson . . .
The “confusion that you are currently experiencing is definitely not from God and I think it has a “deeper” root “problem”…
Could you please share with us, in short, your personal testimony on how you came to be saved/born-again.
If we know this, then I believe we might understand you better and where the “confusion you are having is coming from…
Blessings
@deborah
Sorry, you have a point, that was really out of left field for you, sorry.
When I said “leveled” I was meaning that they were addressed to me, not that they were antagonistic in any way. They were very nice comments. I did not mean to insult you, but I suppose I did. I’m sorry, I should not have posted that without finding a better way to word my opinions.
As to separating the Word of God from Jesus Christ, I don’t understand what your saying. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”, how can they be separate?
I wanted to say this, and apologize, if you’d like to remove it before publishing that’d be fine.
And, would answering Jean’s question be getting a little too off topic here?
Thank you Jackson
Ok going back to what you said a few comments ago http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/#comment-2441
I said you that can’t separate the WORD OF GOD from faith in Jesus Christ. You have stated that you can by saying that it’s not about adherence to the Word of God, it’s about Faith in the Christ.
Please make sure you remember what you say and don’t misquote me 🙂
The conversation on this topic has gone way off the tracks no point in stopping now lol. So you can answer Jean.
People can follow the thread easily, so it’s not problem.
Christians are those trying to follow the teaching of Jesus. Jesus did not believe in a PRE trib rapture. He stated the elect, the Christians, will be gathered POST “after” the great tribulation (Matt 24:29-31 gives the sequence). Paul could not possibly have believed in a pre-trib rapture in II Thess. 1. He says precisely that Christians will be relieved of their suffering only at the “revelation of Jesus in flaming fire” to punish the wicked.
In I Thess. 4 the Christians go up to meet the Lord Jesus as he comes down, and they escort him to Jerusalem for the Kingdom on earth to start.
There is only one future coming of Jesus.
Anthony Buzzard
Wrong. Christians are those who put their trust in Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity.
Anthony B,
You are making stuff up. Please learn to interpret scripture responsibly and don’t impose meanings into scripture. I used to be a post tribber and have dear friends that still hold to that view but at least they can actually reason as to why they hold to their views. You, different story – these are doctrinal drivebys.
Hi Deborah,
Hope everybody is well. I have been following some of this, it is a very important issue as we all know. I would like to raise a point or two. I am yet to have a reasonable explanation from Tre Trib followers on 2 Thes. 2:1-5.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
If we can discussed this: Verse 1 makes it clear it is about our Lord’s coming and our gathering unto Him. Verse 3 told not to be deceived, because the falling away should occur first( has been happening for who knows how long) AND “that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition” be revealed.
The question here is this: Who is the man of perdition? And it appears that “he” has to be revealed before the coming of our Lord.
I may not be getting all of it, but i have been under the impression from working through Revelation that the man of perdition ” the abomination of desolation” will appear and that would be the beginning of the end. Verse5 tells of this man sitting in the temple of God, claiming to be God.
I find it hard to understand with this timeline how the son of perdition will already be sitting in the temple of God, and then we will have the rapture if i understand the pre- trib ideology correctly, or maybe that will be the sign of the end, with the rapture and tribulation following that. Notice the timing of events in Mat. 24.
Please voice your opinions regarding this. What i see is the warning out of the mouth of our Lord and Saviour: “Take heed that no man deceive you.” Mat.24:4
Blessings
It appears that we have Internet problems. Please be patient and feel free to chat amongst yourselves.
Corne and everyone else (The first part is to answer Corne’s question) the rest is for anyone who cares.
Quick one before I lose my connection again. Got Telkom working on my problem. This verse is to the Thessalonians (Jews) who thought that the rapture had taken place and Paul was telling them it was not so. Some false teachers had come their way after Paul left them and spun them a load of lies and wrote letters too them as if they were from the Apostles. So they (The Thessies haha) all had a nervous breakdown and wrote to Paul in shock. And Paul said, no, those letters were not from us. Beware of people who come and try deceive you. Jesus had not come back yet, you are not in the tribulation and the anti-Christ has not set himself up in Jerusalem.
This is speaking about the time when Jesus actually sets foot in Israel to set up the Millennial kingdom. The Thessalonians were under the impression that the man of lawless had already taken over – because they themselves were living in what they thought were turbulent times and I would not argue that they weren’t either. But in comparison to what is to come? Paul was assuring them that it was definitely the wrong timing.
>> Who is the man of perdition? And it appears that “he” has to be revealed before the coming of our Lord.
So the man of perdition. THE anti-Christ. The man of Lawlessness sets himself up in the temple in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God and that the world must worship him. He will do this in the middle of the Tribulation. 3.5 years later Jesus Christ will RETURNS physically and set foot on earth (we come back with HIM) and that is when JESUS CHRIST physically SETS UP the Millennial Kingdom.
In fact I was sent an email today (one of the few I managed to actually receive sighs) and it was brilliant. I had to read it 3 times though to get what this guy was saying, cos it was a bit all over the place but boy… this adds an entire new perspective. NOT new revelation, just a better understanding of being ‘caught up’.
Do you know that people have been raptured since Genesis and the history of ‘rapture type’ scenarios that symbolised what was going to happen to the saved in the last days. Elijah, Moses, etc and possibly Paul??? when he saw heaven and could not utter what he saw. Did Paul get caught up when he had that ‘out of body experience’ that he would not describe (only God knows) and then he came back? hehe. Today I can say I think I learnt something new.
Then we have Noah (as in the days of Noah) like today when things are getting really really bad… how bad were the days of Noah before God saved Noah and his family and ‘toookkkk them away’ in the ark. How bad were those days really? Are the Nephilim real? If so where did Goliath come from in David and Goliath – as this was after the flood – Ok I am speaking about something way off now, but this does confuse me. I am not a know it all, this is all end times stuff and as time goes by, believers will know more and more because we are guided by the Holy Spirit in all truth. If we knew everything then there would be no point in watching and praying and constantly having to have FAITH and rely on Jesus’ promise that we will be protected.
….. And then Sodom and Gomorrah with God taking Lot and his wife out of the city before He destroyed it. The citizens wanted to rape the 2 Angels and the Angels blinded the men, and even being blinded did not cause them to repent. Hows that for a sign and wonder that still does not make people ‘SEE WHO God IS’. Pardon the pun. But I suppose it’s spot on. His sons in law refused to go with him and thought Lot was joking when he said they need to leave because God is going to destroy the city in the morning. So they stayed because marrying his daughters was more important than God. He took Lot out of the city. God took them out of the way… Want to know what is even worse…. Lot was willing to give his daughters over to the evil men to do with as they pleased to protect the Angels. So Lots focus was on God. Just as our focus should be on Jesus only – no matter what happens around us.
One thing I want to add. You can get hit by a car tomorrow and never see the rapture or tribulation. Are you ready? Is everyone ready to die tonight and know where they are going?
Just a thought 🙂
I LOOK for Jesus. I quite frankly could not care about the Tribulation. All I know is that Jesus WILL COME BACK. Do we even know when the tribulation will start? We could be in it now…who knows. I don’t think so, I am just speaking hypothetically here. Maybe we are raptured just before things get too out of hand. Who knows. But Jesus does tell us to watch for HIM and look to the sky. If we are not wanting Him to come back right this minute, then what is wrong. We prefer the world, we wan’t to stay here just 1 minute longer and that minute becomes 1 week and then 1 month and then 6 months and a year and, and, and (in peoples minds) because they still have to achieve something?
I cant wait another 10 years…or 5 years or 2 years for that matter for Jesus to come back. I want Him to come back now. For those who do not love the truth, and refuse Jesus as their Saviour – there is nothing I can do. For Jesus is the one who Saves. God knows when the LAST person will be saved before the time is up. Because He is the ONE who saves.
I turn my back on this world and will walk toward Jesus and leave everything behind; family, friends, everything. They can’t save me. If anyone’s first thoughts are others welfare instead of wanting to worship at their Kings feet well…
Now DO NOT get me wrong. This is not being nasty, or unloving. It hurts me tremendously when my own family want me to keep quiet when I constantly speak to them about Jesus – I sound like a broken record, yes it can be annoying. But when one is consumed with love for Jesus Christ you can talk about him 24/7 and never get tired of hearing the truth. Will I stop because they say so? No. Will I chose them over Jesus? No. Will I look back when Jesus comes? NO!
So to everyone. Rapture (at any time) but not sure WHEN. Are you ready NOW????
And a Cadbury PS: Latter Rain Word of Faith have actually never preached a proper Rapture as the entire movement is based on the fact that you can become God – they just forgot to mention this part 50 years ago. Now they have come out of the closet. And that prophesy by that girl means nothing. Just because she had ‘vision’ about something that is clearly in the Bible…well…says a lot eh. A bit of a Choo Thomas thing going on without the massive convulsions – I am sure her vision and telling it to everyone was rather orderly and lacked holy ghost laughter. Does that make the rapture false teaching? NO. Word of Faith preached Jesus Christ too and his crucifixion, does that make that false teaching because they preached that? NO. If Mormons teach that you need to be baptised does that make the teaching false? NO. If Jehovah’s Witnesses teach a heaven on earth, millennial kingdom type teaching, does that make Jesus Christ setting up a REAL Millennial Kingdom false? NO.
You need to distinguish between the real Jesus Christ and the false Jesus Christ and his counterfeit teachings. We are living in a time of utter confusion and it’s only going to get worse and worse. You guys are not the only ones confused about this topic. However I do believe 100% there will be a rapture. Take it or leave it. Does being confused if there really were really such a thing as Nephilim make what I say on this blog false? NO. Did the Thessalonians all go to hell because they thought the Rapture and tribulation had come and gone, and they thought they missed Jesus Christ? NO. But they cared enough to cry out to Paul for instruction that they might have missed Jesus Christ’s coming and he smacked them over the head gently with a genuine reply email (letter) and told them…NO be careful that no one deceives you like you just were by false letters from people pretending to be Christian when they are not.
Hence we have to WATCH and PRAY. If you are not watching, then you are not alert and are sleeping.
People…think, think, think that is why I have this blog.
Actually let me ask this question. Are you saved? Do you want to know Jesus Christ the Son of God? You could die tonight…
Hi Debs
Perhaps your family aren’t asking you to choose them over Jesus. Perhaps they are asking you for respect, so as not to forcefeed your perception of Jesus to them?
Blessings
MH
Merry Helper
Oh it’s you again. Mr all faiths lead to the same God.
Why don’t you show me some respect and not make silly comments about things you know nothing about.
Also note that if you think you have telepathic abilities to see into my situation, I would recommend (with respect) that you stop because it appears your psychic feelers \ / or antenna are broken, and we don’t want you force feeding your ‘faulty’ perceptions of Jesus onto others now do we.
@ Merry Helper . . .
It is clear that you know nothing about being a servant of the Living God. Why?
If you don’t respect/honor your parents you are not a servant of the living God. (Ef 6:1-3)
Regarding the speaking and proclaiming of Jesus we are taught:
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
In the sad case where our parents do forsake us, we as servants of God has a promise:
Psa 27:10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
Jean
Thank you, and you are 100% correct.
Please note that the low activity level on this website is caused by Internet problems. DTW will be back as soon as possible.
Back to the rapture
OK, it all sounds wonderful and every one has it all sewn up. What I would like you to do is listen to Dr Chuck Misslers teaching on the rapture. He does a 12 part video presentation that took my interest. It is always good to get a wide perspective and different viewpoints because we all see through a glass darkly.
It makes me remember how fed up I used to get when the question of the rapture came up in conversation. I was blasted by automatic fire with, “No one knows the day or hour,” and I hadn’t opened my mouth yet, so I as a ‘young Christian’ decided to study God’s Word for myself. (The best way) I noticed in Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Notice, (sign of thy coming and of the end of the world). Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Then in verse 32 Jesus teaches them about the Fig tree (Israel) and that the time is near. He says, (this generation) US. So we all agree the return of the Jews to Israel is a sign for US, this generation.
Now Jesus answers the next part of the disciples’ question (end of the World) [age] Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. OK, now I am coming to the point, what has the passing away of heaven and earth got to do with the rapture?
I get told that the “Day of the Lord” will come as a thief in the night.(Rapture as the “day of the Lord”)but when I looked up the term “Day of the Lord” every single Scripture says it’s God’s wrath. Now surely if the “Day of the Lord” is God pouring out His wrath on the earth it can’t be the rapture. Jesus goes on to point out the days of Noah, all were destroyed except a few righteous, not so. That was judgement! and that is what is coming again, Gods wrath will be poured out but this will not be the passing away of heaven and earth i.e. 2 Peter 3…. THAT is when no one know the hour, only the Father. Satan will be loosened out of the pit for a little season, and man will again follow him and that is when God will destroy the earth with fire and the heavens will roll up like a scroll. No where does Scripture hint at how long the little season will be. Hence NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR HOUR. We are to look for His immanent return, in other words we must be ready, with oil in our lamps and not like the foolish virgins.
Let us go to 1Th 4:13-18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Now read on ignoring the chapter and verse, because it was one letter to end, starting with verse 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the “day of the Lord” so cometh as a ‘thief in the night.’ Ok so it is God’s wrath that is coming as a ‘thief in the night’, where heaven and earth will pass away.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
We are inclined to forget that Jesus said: Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Praise God we are looking for the New Jerusalem.
[Quote] Please note that the low activity level on this website is caused by Internet problems. DTW will be back as soon as possible. [End of Quote]
Nice one DTW – making everybody think. Post an article about an imminent rapture then disappear.