IHOP’S
ROAD LEADS RIGHT BACK TO
ROME
General Healing Rooms
“No pre-registration is required for the general healing rooms. Upon arrival, simply sign up with the receptionist at the front desk. You will then be led into the prayer room for a time of silent soaking prayer before being taken into one of the healing rooms for a time of focused, private prayer. The healing rooms are staffed with teams of two to three healing ministers who will pray for you, anointing you with oil if you desire. Each minister has a separate role in order to provide those who are seeking healing a comfortable, encouraging, and loving experience.” [1] [Emphasis added]
[DTW note: silent soaking prayer is just another deceptive term for contemplative prayer. Note they have silent soaking prayer and then focused private prayer. No wonder everyone is confused, no one just says what they mean anymore. What they mean is this; first they teach you the OCCULT way of prayer (contemplative meditation/prayer) and then you can do the normal biblical standard way of praying.]
Bethany Healing Room
“The Bethany Room is designated for the critically and terminally ill. The same healing model is used in the Bethany Room except that contemplative prayer is used during the prayer time. Contemplative prayer is silent prayer communing with the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of believers in Jesus. This style of prayer provides a peaceful and restful atmosphere while those ministering cry out to the Lord in silence for healing. The one receiving ministry is taught how to pray through and meditate on scriptures concerning healing while communing with the indwelling Spirit. “If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11). ” [1] [Emphasis added]
[DTW note:
- Firstly, how disgusting that the use this occult technique on the critically ill.
- Secondly, major abuse of Romans 8:11 as this verse in no way applies that one prays to the Holy Spirit let alone condones contemplative prayer/meditation.
- You do NOT pray to the Holy Spirit.
- The Holy Spirit councils us, guides us and CONVICTS US OF SIN.
- We do not communicate with the Holy Spirit. He helps us and intercedes for us with words that we cannot express. Romans 8:26-27
- The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS point us to Jesus Christ the Son of God for repentance of sin - we pray to Jesus Christ as he is our mediator to our Heavenly Father.
- The Holy Spirit will always point us to the Bible for answers.
- The Holy Spirit helps us understand scripture.
They say; "The one receiving ministry is taught how to pray through and meditate on scriptures..." Pray THROUGH scriptures?! The Bible says:
John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through ME
Yet, at IHOP they are taught to pray through scripture.
Repeat: "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through ME"
Repeat: Yet, they are taught to pray through scripture. So you can take a Psalm for instance and pray through the psalm to God for healing.
Repeat: "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through ME"
Should I repeat it one more time? Nah I think you got it.]
[Edited 5 Jan 2010 - Yes, The Word is Jesus, and Jesus Christ is the Word made Flesh. John 1:1 “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
The focus of meditation is not Jesus Christ the Son of God. The focus or starting point of meditation is on anything else but HIM. We do not pray through scripture, texts, the prayer itself does not intercede, the Bible itself is not the ‘mediator’, silence does not connect us to God, we do not breath God in and out of us either, vein repetition of words or verses or entire passages from the Bible means nothing. Jesus is the Word yes, but we do not pray through the Word. Contemplative Spirituality uses any other means necessary to reach God other than His Son Jesus Christ.
------------------------------------------------ Notes: Source: [1] International House of Prayer – Healing Ministry – Healing Rooms Image: http://www.ihop.org ————————————————
A couple of things wrong with your article, not that they prove IHOP is right (I think they are) but that your discussion is meaningless.
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I agree when you say “The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS point us to Jesus Christ the Son of God for repentance of sin”
But we do not “pray through Jesus Christ to our Heavenly Father.” We pray (or can pray when we know not what to pray for) *through* the Holy Spirit. Not *to* but *through* the Spirit [of God] to God.
“26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.” (Romans 8:26-27) (http://bit.ly/4CMcl0)
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Now I’m not even sure what point your trying to make about praying through the Scripture. . . The Scriptures are God’s Holy and Divinely ordained Words, it is God. (Jn 1:1 “1^ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”) The Word is Jesus, (So in a way you could say praying through the Word is praying through Jesus, something you seem to agree with that I disagree with for the reason given above.).
I’m not completely sure how IHOP defines “through” but I would guess it simply means praying Scripture, as in taking a verse or praise or a promise and repeating Gods words back to Him. Would you say that is un-Biblical or wrong?
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Signed:
a sinner, saved by Grace, struggling for the Truth: Jackson
Jackson
>> But we do not “pray through Jesus Christ to our Heavenly Father.”
Sorry I meant to say TO not THROUGH. We pray TO JESUS CHRIST as HE is our mediator to our Heavenly FATHER. That was a typing error and a bad one at that, my apologies.
>> “26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27^ And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.” (Romans 8:26-27)
So yes ‘in the same way the Spirit HELPS US in our weakness” on what to pray when we just don’t know what to say at times. He abides in us and searches our hearts and gives us words to say that at that moment in accordance with God’s will. We do not pray to the Holy Spirit.
Right…next
Now this one I am correct on with no typing errors.
>> Jesus Christ is the Word made Flesh. John 1:1 “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
The Word is Jesus.
Absolutely
BUT the concept of meditation is not Jesus Christ the Son of God as the focus on who they pray to, so repetition of words from scripture is not correct (the words, the scripture, the texts, the prayer itself, becomes the ‘mediator’.) Jesus is the Word yes, but we do not pray through the Word.
>> IHOP is right (I think they are) but that your discussion is meaningless.
And no they are NOT and neither is Mike Bickle and the history of IHOP and the rubbish that they preach and who they have accosciated with over the years is more than enough proof. What you ‘think’ and what the evidence shows makes what ‘you think’ meaningless.
Again sorry for confusion.
Now you can apologise :) Thank you.
Jackson
I have edited and replace the word ‘through’ with to. Make sense? Great.
POST BY JACKSON MOVED FROM The Rapture – An Article to Knock Your Socks Off 2010/01/14 at 4:17am
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You leave me very confused, on the one hand is IHOP-KC with very scriptural teaching, plus some rather questionable mystical things. On the other is you, the complete opposite in almost everything beyond basic catechismic beliefs, with some really good scripture points, but also some rather twisted ones. I believe that both of you are genuinely seeking God from your speech and actions, yet you come to such different ends. There are other things, the deep unsettledness I feel from your rather to-common il-logical statements and conclusions, yet for all the hype and seeming longing after God and working of the Holy Spirit at Onething ‘09 the rather poor (musically, vocally, and enthusiastically) worship at youth group touched my heart so much more with Truths of God’s Word. (“He sees the depths of my heart and He loves me the same” -Isn’t that amazing, God sees us fully, yet he loves us wretched things.)
Anyway, I’m still starting on that responses to the comments leveled at me, and maybe later will have the time to go through your dialouge on pre/post trib rapture.
A wondering sinner Saved by Grace:
Jackson
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@ Jackson . . . Sorry for repeating myself but I would really like to hear your testimony on how you came to the Lord… It will clear up a lot of “misunderstanding” and will give me a better understanding of where your are coming from in you questions…
Blessings
Prayer : Dear God, I pray for Christians’ witness of our Lord Jesus and His Gospel . May it be in both word and deed! May it be a winsome witness, Spirit- Led, and with boldness, pFlower, agape` love, godly wisdom, and in godly timing . And I pray for believers to overcome any sense of timidity! In Jesus’ name! Amen! (II Timothy 1:7)
the typing errors weren’t there when I typed it … your typing box jumped things around from time to time, too! –in case you didn’t know
I really appreciate your use of The Word to back up what you are saying =)
I think it’s super important for us as Christians to make sure we are taking The Bible for what it really says and be careful not to just pull out bits here and there to back what we are saying. The Bible is divine truth and ultimate authority and it will be proven in the end.
Just to bring some perspective, hopefully, ihop prays the word. The Bible is full of prayers and ephesians 1:17-21, 3:14-21, colossians 1:9-14 are just a few examples. So why wouldn’t we pray what we’ve been given?
Like Jackson said, it’s taking The Divine Word of The Lord and praying it back to Him, because after all prayer is a partnership with Jesus. We don’t just take the weight ourselves, our place is to partner with whats on Jesus’ heart and join with Him, after all He has been praying and interceding for about 2000 years. I think He’s the one who know what He’s doin ;-)
Praise the Lord we can come boldly before the thrown of grace (hebrews 4)!
In Matthew 6, Jesus is teaching His disciples to pray. And He shows that we are to pray to the Father. John 14, but only through Jesus can we approach the Father because of our sinful condition.
You said “The focus of meditation is not Jesus Christ the Son of God. The focus or starting point of meditation is on anything else but HIM.”
But how else can we know the Son without the Word? We have to be rooted and grounded in The word with the wisdom and revelation that comes by The Holy Spirit.
Lord, grant us understanding and revelation of Your Word.
Jesus gives us an EXAMPLE by giving us the Lords Prayer on how to pray. He does not say repeat it, not does He tell the disciples to repeat others prayers.
And yet, people repeat the Lord’s prayer all the time. Ever been to an AA meeting? It’s funny to me because they always end with it, at least the meetings I visited with my father.
The Hebrew word Hagah in Psalm 1:2 and Joshua 1:8 tells us to moan, growl, utter, muse, mutter, meditate, divise, plot, or speak…one of the meanings is to imagine. It can also be used to point out negative ways to hagah as stated in Isaiah 8:19: And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
I see this as a good way and a bad way to focus. I don’t take issue with people that repeat the Word over in prayer or even pray the Word, since we seem to not take issue with praying the Word by using the Lord’s prayer. Many songs and hymns repeat the word when we sing them. So, I don’t think the repeating is the issue or even the focusing, but what you are focusing on. What’s funny to me is that many of the people who take issue with this kind of thing have no problem going to the movie theater and “focusing” their minds on movies like Twilight or listening to and singing over and over songs with perverted lyrics.
And yes, Matthew 6 says not to pray with repetitions like the heathen do, but yet in Luke 18 we have the example of the persistent widow?
1And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
So, the widow came and bugged him all the time saying,, “Avenge me of mine adversary.” Seems a bit repetitive, huh? And yet Jesus used this as an example of God avenging His elect on the earth that cry out to HIM day and night.
No matter what conclusion we all come to, may we all come to the conclusion that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that no man come to the Father but by HIM.
Be blessed!
Lolly
So because AA meetings end their sessions with the lords prayer that now makes it correct?
Please go and provide scripture where it says we are to REPEAT the Lords Prayer.
You are trying to condone IHOPS contemplative prayer and that is wrong.
“Please go and provide a scripture where it says we are to REPEAT the Lord’s Prayer.”
Great point, Deborah. So answer this: I have Beth Moore on a Contemplative prayer CD saying she’s “unable to effectively touch God without praying Contemplatively”? And on this same CD, we’re told that “To do it, you must control your breathing – in and out, in and out slowly..allowing your mind to enter a state of “nothingness” or a “mental void”.” You tell me: Where is this in the Bible? Where’s the scripture that directs us to control our breathing when we pray, Deborah? Or to enter a state of mental “nothingness”?
I’ve got a good friend whose child fell into IHOP. IHOP advised this young person to completely CUT OFF 100% OF ALL COMMUNICATION with “Mom” when she dared to question Mike Bickle’s teachings. I’m telling you, that contemplative prayer is nothing short of an occult practice. You play with fire, Deborah, you’re going to get burned.
Annunk
Who are you talking too? Are there two Deborah’s here of what? I must be missing something.
I am completely against contemplative prayer. Asking someone to find scripture to repeat the Lord’s Prayer was not because I support contemplative prayer, but because I wanted them to find scripture to prove their point about repetition and I know they could not.
Anyhow, thanks for this great info on Beth Moore and how involved she is in Contemplative Prayer.
You guys are all missing the point. Christianity is not about arguing over small issues within the faith. It isn’t about being prideful over the things we believe. It is about glorifying our Creator God, and spreading His gospel to the ends of the earth. I am only 17 years old, and I’ve seen enough of believers arguing on other believer’s faiths on this one page to make me sick. You’re all missing the point; love Jesus! Just do it! Forget about doctrine or theology issues, forget about so called ‘occult’ practices at IHOP-KC. Yes, for the record, I do believe that the Holy Spirit’s gifts are active in the Church today, but I know for people who can’t get past the idea of manifestations of the Spirit being real, it will never be real! Do you believe God can do miracles? Then let Him. My God is not a God in a box. He is all powerful, and because of His son I have a personal relationship not only with Him, but with His son and His Spirit. IHOP-KC does not have the intention of being a cult, nor do I think they are. They are a body of Christ worshiping their Father and finding joy in the gifts that He gives them. Take a second to look at the faiths of Christians who live in less ‘fortunate’ countries like Africa, and you will see a faith that is a lot more like IHOP’s than your own.
Interesting that we try to wrap our minds around the mystery Paul talks about – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three in one. We can’t understand this with our puny human minds. The Holy Spirit is a Person. We can talk to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three in one. I’m so thankful for the Spirit of Christ who dwells in me. He lives IN me! I can commune with Him ALL the time. Using is inerrant word guarantees that I’m praying His will and not mine. Again, I’m so thankful. I’m sad how people hate their own brothers and sisters (guess who we’ll be worshiping God for eternity with) to the point of posting these unloving statements. I agree with Dakota – the western church is the only region of the body that doesn’t get the role of the Holy Spirit. Let’s not grieve the Holy Spirit – if He can be grieved, than He must have emotions – because He’s a Person.