Calvinism – What would these Pastors have done if they were there?

What would these pastors have done if they were there

2 Youtube videos by Tom Lessing.  The shocking truth about Calvinism; that God does NOT love everyone savingly…  Hear John MacArthur, Paul Washer, John Piper and Robert Morey speak.

and Part 2 …

Please read “Psalm 5:5 – ‘God hates sinners'” for a better understanding of Calvinists’ twisting of Scripture.

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Burning Lamp

Thank you Debs for posting this!

Calvinism/Reformed theology is the Trojan Horse of the faith and one of the greatest enemies of the Gospel!

John MacArthur is widely accepted by evangelicals who are often unwittinly sucked into Calvinism via MacArthur. I know personally several who came to believe in Calvinism via this gateway.

Another is Ray Comfort’s The Way of the Master which is widely promoted has been a gateway to a false gospel to the undiscerning.
Check out this link: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/ray_comfort-heresy.htm His way of reaching the lost is confrontational, not loving and reflects the false doctrine of “Lordship Salvation”.
Quote from the article exposing this:

HOWEVER, the big problem with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron is that they teach the damnable heresy of LORDSHIP SALVATION. Like all Lordship Salvationists, Ray Comfort errantly teaches that salvation by faith ALONE in Jesus Christ is not enough to save someone. That is a false Gospel. According to Ray Comfort, a person MUST also cease from their sinful lifestyle and give up worldly living to be saved. Thus, eternal life ceases to be a gift in Ray Comfort’s mind, and has now been turned into a reward. It is much more than a matter of mere semantics. The Bible teaches one Gospel, not two. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/ray_comfort.htm

You can fully expect that Calvinists will defend these men and their damnable doctrine because they are blinded by the enemy and their devotion to men and this results in twisting of the Scripture.

This is much more than a minor difference in “philosophies” but rather souls hanging in the balance.

Those of the Calvinist/Reformed faith love to get involved in debates, using their pet verses. The pride is so evident!

Deborah (Discerning the World)

BL

Let’s hope that those not caught up in it YET, are warned of the dangers of Calvinism as to NOT get caught up in it in the future – because those caught up in it are indeed trapped and only through a miracle see the truth.

jj

Hi Deborah,
I commented on this site a couple of months ago, and you gave me great guidance.I actually got what you were trying to say about Afrikaner Calvinism, and israeli vision amongs the Afrikaners the other day. We had an online “argument” about Afrikaner rights, and then this calvism stuck out its ugly head. I never realised how many people are caught up in this, and how strongly they believe this. They truly believe that the Afrikaners are Gods chosen people, a that they are saved because they are white “Jews”aka Afrikaners. The more you try to show them the correct way, they insult and call you a k… boetie, and tell you that you will burn in hell. I was really shocked, never realised how deeply this believe is rooted in my community. And it is true what you say, only a miracle will help them see the truth, because take my word, talking to them doesnt help. I actually realised i would rather live and take my chances in the current crime South Africa, and be saved, than to live a safe live and my soul condemned to hell.
I guess i was luck to be brought up in a household were this believe was never even mentioned, i guess that is why it shocked me so much. It actually kinda hurts to know that your “people”, friend, collegues are deeply rooted in this.

I just thought i had to share this, and thanks for guidance you gave me.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

jj

Hey there!

It is terrible isn’t it. Just thank Jesus that He has shown you the truth and opened your eyes WIDE to what is going on. The thing that catches people into Calvinism is that that they preach 90% truth (so people are drawn to them) – but the 10% ERROR is so horrendous and subtle that people don’t catch on and then it’s too late; you’ve been indoctrinated into the lie that you are Elect.

Just keep standing for the truth JJ, and always listen to the Holy Spirit!

Burning Lamp

I had no idea that this heretical doctrine has morphed into areas that affect cultures. But it stands to reason that error is like a cancer and will spread and “mutate”. It is so ironic that Calvinist ministries take such a strong stand against Rome and yet they are blind to their own error. ANd the venom that comes forth and is directed against those who declare the truth is appalling.

Keep the faith JJ!

Deborah (Discerning the World)

BL

>> I had no idea that this heretical doctrine has morphed into areas that affect cultures

Yip, South African Afrikaans culture is infested with this doctrine. White settlers to SA back in the 17th century were Huguenots some fleeing persecution. http://www.south-africa-tours-and-travel.com/french-huguenots.html. The old SA government was staunch Calvinist (Dutch Reformed Church) – they would murder people during the week and put on their suits and ties and go to church on the weekend.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Thanks Michael!

Sibusiso Cele

Hey Debs!, doesn’t this Mcarthur guy and his buddies ever read the bible?,why do they quote from the bush than from the bible?.Don’t they understand the verses they quote or they pretend in order to delude others ,it sounds like they are Satan’s disciples.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Sibusiso

That is a very good question. Well my answer would be this. If you don’t have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit you will end up not understanding the bible – especially the most important parts; Satan will make sure of that. They are themselves deceived because they wholeheartedly believe they are ELECT – through pride they believe they are special in God’s eyes. And of course they pass on their deceit to others. This is why it’s so important in this day and age to make sure we test everything we hear to the Word of God, lest we be lead astray by wicked men.

When the Charismatics where out in full force with the last revival in the USA called the Lakeland Revival the Calvinist’s were there to sweep up the people who were spiritually hurt and lost into their web. All of a sudden there was a boom in Reformed thinking as they moved on the youth with men such as Louie Giglio and Mark Driscoll. I’ve had my fair share of run-ins with Calvanists – I know what these people are all about and it’s very very scary.

Michael

Calvins theology is one of the worse because it is covered and laced with 90% truth and 10% dose of the most fatal poison. Calvinism has crept into the very heart of Christian evangelicals. It can be very confusing to the new convert.
The WOF teaching ironically is easier to detect…because it is never lines up with true scripture in the right context…Cavinism on the otherhand has an interlectual appeal and is debated amongst learned theologins…John Mac Arthur sometimes makes a lot of sense but if he indeed is truly a Calvinist as it appears then his teachings are just as deadly as the Jakes and Benny Hinn’s of this world.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Michael

You are 100% correct. And John MacArthur is very deadly.

Michael

Many years ago I attended a church in Cape Town…Kenilworth actually which is a southern suburb of that region…the church was St James…the one attacked by terrorists many years ago …a wonderful church led by a true man of God…my friend Frank Retief…Frank had just started then and him and his lovely wife Beulah had a great influence on my life.Frank was a man of great integrity and he genuinely had a fervour for preaching the gospel. Frank was direct and honest and loved the Lord Jesus Christ and is sadly, through my long Christian walk, one of the few Christian ministers or pastors that set an example and walked his talk. I knew him and Beulah well then and I attended his bible studies every Wednesday night at St James. Frank at that stage had leanings (or so I was told towards Calvin’s teachings) but he was then a relatively young minister with high intelligence but knowing Frank well enough as his strength of character, his honesty and most important his genuine love of the Lord Jesus Christ and the lost.
I have to be careful here because I have stated I do not patronise any man…what I really trying to express is this…that Frank was genuinely saturated with his genuine love for Jesus…it stood out…his hunger for lost souls…yes he preached the old fashioned gospel…sort of tough and fire and brimstone stuff…so different from Angus Buchan…he filled the Three Arts theatre in Plumstead..twice on Sundays.
Frank later became Bishop…head of the church of England in SA and has now retired.
I do not attend church today in my area (I now live in KZN) because I have not found a fellowship that seeks the truth…it is an affluent area contaminated with the prosperity gospel.
I would like to write to Frank and find out how he managed to dispel the Calvinistic influence…which I believe he really never had at all…because his mission was for the lost. And yes, we all make mistakes…I was sympathetic with charismatics somewhere along the line but now fervently oppose them…the bible simply being my only teacher and the Holy Spirit first.

Burning Lamp

Michael, you put it SO well! Yes, JMA and others of his ilk such as R.C. Sproul are much more dangerous than those who are obvious to the beholder such as Hinn, Jakes, Osteen, etc. JMA builds trust w/his stands for truth but this only serves as a cloak for the error which goes undetected. He even makes friends in the discernment community by speaking out against certain errors. But as you say, one of the most deadly doctrines is Calvinism/Reformed doctrine. Even those who claim to not subscribe to all of the TULIP are in serious error. Any one of them are a violation of biblical truth and the Gospel.

And what is concerning is that pastors rarely if ever warn their flocks about this false teaching, even promoting JMA and others they consider “safe”. The sheep need to understand exactly what this deadly weed is so they will not graze upon it. It needs to be exposed as a deed of darkness.

PW

[EDITED by DTW: SEE COMMENTS from a guy called Elbie under the following article: Lordship Salvation – Putting the Cart Before the Horse ]

Hi guys
Its been a while since I have been here and i am glad this blog is still going strong!
First off i don’t know the whole history with Elbie, but do believe we as Christians should be careful how we handle and present ourselves on open platforms like these.
Anyhow that just a humble observation.
I have one question and please note not because I support Calvinism or Universalism even though the question might present it in such a sense. I honestly would like to know your wisdom cause this is a question presented to me from time to time.
Forgive if some of my assumptions are wrong…
Calvinism teaches that we are pre-selected (pre destination if i am correct) and at least does explain why millions of people whom never heard of Jesus and God will burn in Hell for the misfortune of being born somewhere else. See one of the enemies main weapons is just this point. How can a Loving Father create People to His image and then give some no chance to ever hear his gospel, thus condemning them to hell.
I ask this because i don’t have an answer for people asking the above? I am a new born Christian and have not found any scripture to explain it. Thus at least to a humble mind does Calvinism offer some sort of explanation.
Guys my question is not to open an argument or for me to be ridiculed by my lack of understanding or weather the Holy Spirit abide in me or not. I know to whom i beg forgiveness every day, so if this question is not to standard then rather delete and not answer.
Thank you

Deborah (Discerning the World)

BL, if you don’t mind, please answer PW re the Calvinist thing

Deborah (Discerning the World)

PW

>> First off i don’t know the whole history with Elbie, but do believe we as Christians should be careful how we handle and present ourselves on open platforms like these.

Next time I will only quote scripture for people like Elbie, I dunno how you are going to handle it PW because scripture cuts deeper and REBUKES worse than my words could ever do.

>> Guys my question is not to open an argument or for me to be ridiculed by my lack of understanding or weather the Holy Spirit abide in me or not.

With a comment like this one would think you are trying to look for trouble? Is there something about Elbie that resonates with you? Possibly Calvinism? And this is now why you attack me with such sly wording? If you want to side with Elbie against me, then just come out and say so PW, don’t beat around the bush.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

PW

Try fit Calvinist doctrine into this verse:

All men are born with the knowledge of God: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Romans 1:19-20)

God gives EVERY MAN this thing called a conscience. I think you have heard of it before ;) BL wrote this wonderful comment to a Calvinist a while ago on man’s conscience. I will find it and paste it here for you to read.

Instead of reading Calvinist sermons on what the bible is supposed to mean, try reading the bible instead and pray for guidance of the Holy Spirit ONLY.

You have been on my website for a long time now and you keep referring to yourself as a baby/new Christian, well I am going to ask you nicely, “when are you going to spiritually grow up?” (1 Corinthians 3:2) “I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, because you weren’t ready for it. And you’re still not ready!” I am going to shock you PW…. Do you know how long I was saved before I stared this blog? 2 years! God NEVER leaves His Children in the dark – He will expand your mind with the TRUTH and very quickly too – knowledge in the Word of God will flow freely and easily.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Burning Lamp Wrote:

I will take each section separately starting with Total Depravity. This is by no means an exhaustive study of the topic, but there should be ample references and some many very well overlap with those you have previously posted. Unconditional Election will follow in a day or so.

Total Depravity

There is no question but that the Bible teaches we are totally depraved, but it does not teach total inability to make moral and spiritual choices.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to EVERY MAN COMING INTO THE WORLD. John 1:6-9 In John 1:9 we are told about Jesus, “That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world.”

So as you can see John was a light, but not THAT Light, and EVERY MAN in the world has light from God and from Christ, and so could be saved.

We are born totally depraved, but the Lord Jesus gives ENOUGH LIGHT TO EVERY MAN to make him responsible to hear and to reject or accept the Gospel of the Son of God.

So that little spark called conscience proves God gives inward light so one can choose right on issues of moral and spiritual duty. Men are not so predestined that they must sin or must reject Christ. God has given light to all men and seeks to draw all men to Himself: Gen. 6:3; Ps. 79:7-3; Ps. 98:2-3; Prov. 1:22-23; John 1:9; John 12:32; John 16:8; Rom. 1:18-25; Titus 2:11; 1 Tim. 2:3-6

He gives light through conscience. Look at Romans 2:11-16: FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

For every idle word men shall come to judgment, Jesus said (Matt 12:36). And Revelation 20:12 tells us that the unsaved dead will be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS” which are meticulously recorded. Does not that prove that in moral matters man is accountable and must choose?

In John 12:32 did the Lord Jesus say, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw a FEW men unto Me”? NO, HE DIDN’T SAY THAT. Instead, He said, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.”

Notice John 5:40. Does this verse say,”And you will not come to Me, because you are not one of the elect”? HE DIDN’T SAY THAT. Rather He said, “But you are NOT WILLING to come to Me that you may have life. ” It is not that they were not elected; it was that they WOULD NOT COME.

“God… now commandeth ALL men every where to repent” (Acts 17:30). Can anyone accuse God of commanding people to do what He has made it impossible for them to do?

Romans 2:11-16 says: FOR THERE IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS WITH GOD. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

Does that not mean that EVERY person in the world is warned from God, either by the Word or by God speaking through the law He has written in their hearts, that is, their CONSCIENCES?

All who seek more light find enough light even as Cornelius did in Acts 10.

The Bible pictures man as a free moral agent capable of choice, he is morally responsible as Psalm 19:1-4 tells us:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line[a] has gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.

So there is a speech in nature to turn men to seek God. It speaks in all the world and EVERY MAN is therefore accountable to God for it.

PW/Pieter

[deleted – it would appear that not agreeing with my theology is the one of the main reason for your distaste to this blog. I will NEVER compromise the truth PW and I am sorry if you can’t handle that. I am sorry if you see fighting for the truth as being mean spirited. I am sorry if you can’t handle that I will never bow down to other gods (evil spirits) who try pass off other doctrines as that of the Lord Jesus Christ’s. Please go find a place were everyone agrees on all theologies under one big flag of unity.

DTW is under constant relentless attack by people (who are not seeking the truth) but soley place comments to cause trouble – like Elbie. (as he stated in the comment I deleted). But you don’t care about that. All you care about is to how much I slip up or at least you think I am because you see my rebuking sharply as being unbiblical but it is not (Titus 1:13) “This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith”. Never once have you come to my aid too help me or give me encouragement. You see genuine Christians stand together, they encourage one another; they don’t attack/fight with one another, because they know the fight is against evil spirits and not people! If people are willing to listen to the Holy Spirit they WILL HEAR what HE IS TELLING THEM. But if they refuse to listen to HIM, there is nothing I can do and no matter how I say it, it’s not going to change them! – not even a box of chocolates will do it. ]

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Thanks Smugger!

I’ve noticed that when people can’t back up their unbiblical beliefs with scripture they attack the messenger instead. And it’s all based on how they feel after they read text on a screen. This then leads them to brand me as unloving (ROTFL). Incredible. But then that is how Satan operates.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

I have created an article especially for Lordship Salvation and MOVED all the comments that were under this article across to the new article.

MAC

Deborah,
Do you all have an article about testing the spirits?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Mac

It’s coming soon. ok here it is: Testing the Spirits – True Spiritual Discernment

sarah

It says it is not there. I would like to read this on testing the spirits. Lots of controversy over true spiritual discernment.

Thanks and I changed email addresses awhile back because mine was too full, so new one as above.

marusa

When I was debating Calvinists on youtube, I came across a person who claims to be the woman in Revelation 12, an apostle for the USA, etc… She is a devout Calvinist. I saw on her channel recently that she even believes in killing for the Lord… She says she is going to have the power to kill and that she has already done so.

Here is the link to her youtube channel, if you are interested. I would like to hear your opinion.

Praying Sincerely

For Jesus to save all your non-elect souls.

Jonathan Kirby

Recently I put up a Page on Facebook titled “Day by Day with Christ”. I made some comments against Calvinism, and immediately I was attacked. I discovered that out of my 330 friends or so about 30 had strong Calvinistic leanings. Well, I happened to read Dr Curtis Hutson articles refuting the 5 Point Doctrine of Calvinism (viz. TULIP), and I put up those articles on my Page. I cannot imagine the tidal wave of attacks that I received.

There has been a slander and vilification campaign against me, because I am standing AGAINST CALVINISM, which I believe is a CULT that dishonours God! These people are very subtle and vicious; they will go to any length to destroy you. Can you tell me if you, Deborah, and your friends, are on Facebook? It is becoming difficult to fight the battle alone. I would like reinforcements; this is a battle for the TRUTH.

PS. I am not an “Arminian” or a Calvinist or a Charismatic; nor am I New Age or Old age or anything. I am just a Biblical Christian who reads his Bible, and walks by the Word of God.

PPS. I have put up extracts of your conversation on my Facebook Page. The Page is called Day by Day with Christ. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Day-by-Day-with-Christ/189592051116529

Please visit the Page, and help me fight the good fight of THE FAITH. :)

Robbie

And those were just friends Jonathan?
t’is a good sign. Living holy will lose you many “friends”

Keep it up. Your’e not there for your own popularity. If one of them sees the light… Heaven rejoices.

I will pop in :-)

Robbie

oops… I lost me avatar Auty D…

Robbie

Oh but you’ve been working!!
Looks busy on the right side again! now that is what I would call order… at last . he he

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