Top 10 Most Influential Christian Leaders of 2010

79 Responses

  1. Gerrie says:

    Your website is talking absolute rubbish. How dare you put Reinard Bonnke in such category. What Jesus Christ Jesus are you talking about? Common people, stop your absolute nonsense!!!!@!

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Um, I think you need to RE-READ the whole article again….

  3. Pastor Donnie says:


    Thanks a lot for the information, it is very interesting..(especially the Latter Rain and Kingdom Now Topics/Theology….)

    However, could you please supply more detail and information on your statement/s “these people below preach another gospel, follow another Christ – therefore it is safe to say that they are 100% against Jesus Christ”

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I am doing just that…hold on.

  5. Smuggler says:

    Reinard Bonke was never Reborn… Without any repentance, he just “received” the “spirit” when he was 11 years old and started talking “gibberish”… (they call it “speaking in tongues” ) – Biography Of Reinhard Bonnke, APV

  6. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Oh well… and I guess that is what he preaches to everyone else.

  7. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I have updated the article with all the info you needed.

  8. Smuggler says:

    Reinhard Bonnke’s God NEEDS human assistance !!!
    “Omnipotence needs manpower… Omnipotence calls for human action… Jesus could multiply loaves and fish but only in the hands of his disciples.”
    (Reinhard Bonnke, AGENTS OF OMNIPOTENCE (I), February 2001)

    My God is ALMIGHTY and does NOT need me or any man…
    Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

  9. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    That man is a blasphemer.

  10. Burning Lamp says:

    No wonder the world is in such a mess – look at what is being touted as the “best” of the Christian ministries. Counterfeit and/or compromised – that is the truth of it.

    I am convinced that God is allowing all this to play out unchecked because the apostasy has to occur to usher in the Anti-Christ. It is painful to see it happen and even more painful to see people just such it in and swallow it.

    I fear there are going to be many tears shed at the Bema and many who thought they were in the fold will be sent away and condemned. It is a most sobering thought.

    God will not abide with His name being dragged through the mud and mocked forever – there is a day of reckoning coming. Each of us has to examine ourselves and keep our doorstep clean. The remnant is aware and trying to send warnings and a few will listen, but most will not. But we must keep on doing our best and leave the results to God.

  11. Eddy Carter-Smith says:

    I agree with most of DTW articles and comments
    Why i say most is i hav’nt read all-We are clealy warned that Satan will perade as an angel of light.We are warned that ‘the very elect’ shall be deceived and we are warned not every one who says “But Lord i cast out demons in your name the sick i healed and The Lord says Depart from me.The truly ritious go about quietly bringing the gospeel and testomony of Christ returning without fanfare…Who then are these Miracle healers “Fire ministers” all paradinging themselves in full view of the so called “church” of this world.They preach prosperity and peace -But Jesus warned beklievers that they shall be persecuted even to death for there belief.No No No if you Believe on the name of Jesus the only fame you will receive is ridicule you are already a criminal in the eyes of the law -because you have sisded with the Saviour therefore you reject every other religion of the world and what they propogate e,g the Depraved mind of Homosexualism etc.The only Fortune you will receive is the crown of glory.If you think this fantasy run hide For true Christ believers there is only that what Jesus experienced,in death we shall live.

  12. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >>I agree with most of DTW articles and comments
    >>Why i say most is i hav’nt read all

    ROTFL – thank you, that made me laugh. I needed a good laugh this morning! :)))

  13. Lexi says:

    I do not agree with most of the articles and I have read them all. Seems to me that most are judgemental and selfrighteous. Do any of you know these people (the top 10) personally??? First get to know them, get to know their hearts (most are filled with the Spirit of God), and then judge. Everybody is broken – nobody is perfect. If you are looking for a 100% perfect preacher there would be none. What happened to: love your neighbour as YOURSELF – yes YOURSELF! Also the drunk hobo lying in the gutter – also the preacher making millions. As yourself. LOVE WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

  14. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    ROTFL – that was funny as well. Many got to know Jeffrey Dahmer very well and look what happened to them, the SIGNS that somethings was wrong were already there, but no one bothered to WARN the public that a psycho was on the loose.

    Clearly you are not a Christian, otherwise your would be LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOURS and warning people that these people above do not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and are leading MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of people to HELL.

  15. Lexi says:

    No need to be rude. You see, this is the attitude that bothers me about this site. I do not see this as Christian. And you say that I am not a Christian. Do you see how wrong a person can be by just reading what someone has to say? I am a reborn Christian through Christ Jesus, and I try not to judge. If the list of 10 are, lets say all reborn Christians, would your opinion then be that despite their reborn status, that they still would all go to hell because of what they preach and do??

  16. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    You are the rude one. You came and commented 1ST with a nasty comment. I replied with a sensible comment and now I am the rude one? lol Tell you what. When you learn to speak nicely to people FIRST TIME round I will let you comment again. (that means you wont be commenting again)

  17. Lexi says:

    Ok. You do not have to post this, this is for you alone if you so wish. I appologize for being rude and hurting your feelings, but when one does not necessarily agree with something said, that does not make that which is said to be false.

    I am trying to find out more, but if you do not want to share, thats Ok, for I have peace in the Lord.

    You are doing a good job, but have lost the softness of a new born again Christian. Please think on this, and I do not mean to be critical, I mean it well.

  18. Eddy Carter-Smith says:

    Lexi- I can almost agree with you DTW is jugemental and selfrightious,But i have been folowing this blog for some time now and it is easy to detect quite clearly that the the author takes aim at anyone who is on public parade,these r the men and woman who should really be careful what they spout,Dtw motives are quite entirley pure –We are to be decerning and very judgmental of so caleed “leaders” very few are rightious.I do not believe that the Warrens and et al set out to be bad i believe they followed satans tag to fame and self agrandisment and by this they have become corrupt.This is the wonderfull gift of the www. anyone can now have there say including you.I like to think that everyone is intiltled to an opnion.But so are they entitled to be exposed to the truth-I do not think DTW(and i do not know the author personal)is at all malisious or condensending.but rightly Questions “leaders”version against the written word.We all watch to see if that is mantained.If not just say cheers areveditchie and move on.

  19. Eddy Carter-Smith says:

    Sorry i wont see your reply you have been excommunicated…maybe only temporaly.

  20. Burning Lamp says:

    Lexi – I hope you realize how ridiculous your statement is. These are PUBLIC figures with a PUBLIC ministry. Therefore their ministries are judged PUBLICLY. Their works are wrong according to the Word of God, not the opinion of this website. They have been judged already by the Bible.

    You are in a fog my dear. There have been people who have tried to contact people in public ministry and they are always too busy to write back and it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to know them personally. They are not accountable to ANYONE and the only way is to expose them and warn people about them.

    Lexi, I can’t and won’t say whether or not you are a Christian – only God knows that. But if you are a Christian you are a very naive one who has not studied the Bible and are not listening to the Holy Spirit. Your idea of loving your neighbor is not what Jesus meant. You sound like a universalist who believes all paths lead to heaven.

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Thank you for your apology. You can carry on commenting :)

    I am critical and sound judgmental where I need to be critical and judgemental because the topic is life threatening. I don’t play around with people’s salvations, God holds the blood of others on our hands if we didn’t do anything to save someone, especially when the truth was laid out all nicely for you.

    I RIP people out of hellish situations, I SHAKE PEOPLES CAGES. When people leave this blog I want them to leave THINKING. And if the Holy Spirit is anywhere in their lives the Holy Spirit will convict them!

    I don’t mollycoddle. We are in a WAR – we fight evil spirits day in and day out, principalities of the air attacking all the time.

    I don’t agree to disagree – the Gospel Truth is the Gospel Truth and if anything else is preached then it’s FALSE. I will never back down.

    If people don’t like this, then… to bad so sad.

  22. Michael says:

    Deb’s you have answered this well and honestly…yes it’s war and precious souls are on the line.We are all sinners and sin and death are our enemies and it’s only the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ that takes this away and all that the atonement represents…nothing else…good works,knowledge,wisdom,doctrine…and even love and sincerity are rendered hopeless in redemption. Again I would like to post this article here, simply because it explains it all very thoroughly and it is the true message of salvation…

    To the untrained ear and eye these top ten might sound acceptable but they do not preach the same thing…sometimes they might say something very similar but it is counterfeit. When criminals counterfeit money nobody can tell the difference at least to the naked eye. Counterfeit Christians do exactly the same thing.
    For those who are really genuine and seeking and are prepared to humble themselves and read this posted link and compare it to what these top 10 guys are saying…hopefully will be able to discern the difference.

  23. Burning Lamp says:

    Debs, what most people do not realize is that it takes a ton of courage to take an unpopular stand, knowing it will most likely result in people misunderstanding and hating the messenger. But if only one person is snatched from the fire it is worth it. And He Who rewards the faithful will exalt those who are debased in due time.

    We forget that the Apostles and disciples all suffered a martyrs death as did most of those who took a stand against Roman Catholicism. (Read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs). Today’s Church has lost the zeal for truth and has caved to compromise. But there is a remnant who will still stand for truth and count the cost.

  24. Giam says:

    welcome the new look…
    great aricle

  25. Janet says:

    Hello Deborah

    I took one look at these so called “Most Influential “Christian Leaders” and I just wanted to weep. Boy of boy are the Christians who believe all this in TROUBLE!!!

    I am talking from experience. Myself and a few of my friends came out of all this nonsense. It took us a few years to recover, about 10. But thank God we did and now we can see a con job coming a mile away. We always knew something was wrong, but we could not believe that ‘preachers’ could be wolf in sheep clothings. Ofcourse they never preach anything like that. It is always a ‘seaker friendly’ message and the power of ‘positive thinking’ and blessings of money etc.

    After spending years sulking, not going to any church, a wonderful man gave me a teaching by Jacob Prasch. It was if the Lord had dropped a brick on my head to wake me up.

    I am now flying, but still battle with all the churches around me. I went into a church down the road from me last year at Easter. Instead of preaching about what Jesus had done all the pastor could talk about was how wonderful Robert Schuller was on TBC the night before. All I said was “Lord I am out of here”.

    So good for you Deborah. May the Lord BLESS YOU in ways we can’t imagine. I am sure you have come under attack from many quarters. I know I have but even though many of my Christian friends really hurt me when I pointed out the error of their ways, guess what? Many of them have now seen the light and that it the most wonderful blessing I could have imagined.

    In His Grip

  26. Helen says:

    I am saddened to see Lisa Bevere on the list, I read her book out of control and loving it, ( the topic was giving control to God not in an unhealthy sense) and found it very inspiring.
    As for Reinhard Bonke no Bonkers I am not surprised!

    I am also Disappointed Billy Graham’s son is on the list too!

  27. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Lisa Bevere is part of the Latter Rain group of preachers who are at the best of times unbiblical.

  28. Beti says:

    If this is the kind of pastoral care and help you have to offer to the fallen world, I don`t want it.Jesus was the most “charismatic” being the world has ever seen with every gift in action and we are His followers. If it is the truth (or better, if He is the Truth..) that will set us free, we have to learn from Him. All of us! And He did a lot of “strange” things. Because a Movement came into being with some wrong approaches, it does not mean that we have to eliminat all the scriptures about gifts etc.. or that nobody is saved who does not fit in your scheme. I also would say with Gerri: “How dare you put Reinard Bonnke in such category” at least…..

  29. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> Because a Movement came into being with some wrong approaches, it does not mean that we have to eliminat all the scriptures about gifts etc.. or that nobody is saved who does not fit in your scheme. I also would say with Gerri: “How dare you put Reinard Bonnke in such category” at least…..

    Would you like to go to the BIBLE and quote scripture to support your argument because I can quote 100 scriptures to tell you otherwise. Let’s see how learned you are in the bible, maybe while looking up verses to prove me wrong, you will learn something.

    Rheinard Bonnke is a lying con-artist.

  30. Beti says:

    I think all is said depending on the different views in this matter. Instead of challenging me to proof my view against a “spiritual superwoman” you could rejoice, that there are some people on earth, not abused by the Charismatic Movement. Even, dear Deborah, if I would present you 100 verses, you would call me a seduced person. Because you choosed to do so, deep within. And this is why I see no need to response this way. Eventually Im not the only one in need to learn something. I can tell you, that I more than once changed my viewpoint about biblical things, because I was convicted by the truth. And some things need time and wisdom and prayer. The Bonnke – thing is between you and God Allmighty. I wishfully hope, that your
    kind of discerning the World will be a blessing and no hurt to other people. And forgive me the strange reaction. Perhaps I could understand you anyway better in your reactions, if I would know you personally. God bless you, Sister! ;o)))

  31. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    No Beti, I asked you for scripture so that you can go and open your bible (like every believer is commanded by God to do) – I know you can’t quote me scripture because you don’t read your bible, instead you let others think for you. Well I am challenging you to take up my challenge just once for yourself, I wont answer you, just for yourself and go prove me wrong by searching the scriptures for your answers. Because I am pretty sure that through searching you will find that what you thought is true is not necessarily so. We all make mistakes, even I, but I am always willing to go and FIND and ANSWER to every QUESTION. And there is always a right answer and a wrong answer – no grey areas. If you don’t want to learn the gospel because I ask you, do it for JESUS Beti and because HE ASKS YOU :)

  32. Beti says:

    I think you know them all, all scriptures I could offer you and would have an answer for it….. oh, and even you are making mistakes !!!! ?? Wow. You are somewhat of bold to accuse others either not to be Christians, like in an other case I read, or they don’t read their Bibles. Why are you doing such things? I think you are spending a lot of time to answer questions and to do informational work But even you have to agree, no one has it all. But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. And if you are hurting others with statements they disagree with, or never experienced by themselves you have to stand some uncomfortable answer. One thing is to discuss the matter with some kind of in humility valuing others above oneselve, (what is very hard, I agree ;o) or we harm each other. That would not be an Christian attitude…. :o(

    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. …..

    Apart from the listing of several gifts, it says what these gifts are all about: love. I know, I have to learn a lot about love.
    And I am sometimes lacking this love and I am tempted to “dishonor others” and this is what I found also in the above article And yes, God is not Love alone. But all on its place!

    Quote: “None of then are actually Chrisitan. They say they are Christian as they present you with their branded version of the Gospel. But that does not count.“

    This reminds me of the situation in the Bible where the Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people…..

    With no sentence you do any explanation or give any background for people which are uninformed. Can it be that you are assuming that everyone has to work through hundreds of pages on this site to find something about these people, to know what you are speaking about at a specific page?

    The result of this is, that other people add commentaries, even more confusing and finally Preacher XY or Pastor Z is dismanteled for ever without having the opportunity to give any statement … because he / she has not been asked for truth sake.

    With no well funded explanation, it is simply gossip. And yes I quoted a scripture above: Read 1. Corinthians 13, 5.
    If you are telling me, you are exposing the works of the darkness, than do it carefully and not like this.

    do you really know, what is inside each person?

    “For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 2. Corinthians 2,11

    …. and so …. who should judge people? For it is time for judgment to begin with Gods household – this makes sense but it is God who judges… And even me and you dont know the thoughts of God – without the Spirit – because the letter alone killeth……. This shall be my slogan if I am so smart in my own eyes.

    We have to be sober, and the real watchman has to watch. But there are many selfmade watchman, and many many different views and opinions. I always understood that we first of all have to watch ourselves. Teaching and judging others brings much responsibility with it. There were always appointed vessels God used for this because reward is big and also judgement.

    So for me it was important, to resolve some essential basics, and principles, I can see in the bible, before quoting scriptures for you in the case of gifts and so on….”
    And I learned that Scripture is on your side, so there is no chance for me anyway! :O)

  33. Beti says:

    Finally I found out, how your Site is working and saw the commentaries about “Can Satan heal?”
    So, aha, now I understand your concern and basically I agree in many points. But always compensated on the Men and Women who are in error and have false fruits and deceive other people, the gifts of the spirit are always under bombardment. And that is sad
    I saw the true and saw the false stuff in Church. You stated that Satan counterfeits the gifts, but he could not do so if they were not there and real in the first place. I personally don’t believe that Speaking in Tongues is from Hell.
    Now it was very helpful for me for understanding Speaking in Tongues to make a difference between 2´prophetic promises given in the Bible
    First promise about Salvation through the Holy Spirit in Ezechiel 36, 26 – 27
    Second promise about equipment with power of the Holy Spirit and Gifts Joel 2, 28…
    So we can see that God is inhabiting a saved person through the Holy Spirit (John 1,12-13)
    He also causes the fruits of the Spirit (Galatian 5,22) provides guidance and offers the gifts of the Spirit and empowers us to do His work.
    So, we are seale with the Spirit (Ephesian 1,13) if we are saved.

    Now to the term : Being baptized with the Holy Spirit. < ------- See my comment below
    Here also one can see 2 different views:
    The integration of the believers into the Body of Christ (1. Corinthians 12,12-13)
    For these people “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” is equal with Salvation or integration into the Body of Christ.
    The other view is the special experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, (Acts 11, 15-16)
    These people say that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a Experience which follows Salvation and Baptism.

    Jesus said “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” (Matthew 3,15) and with this He declares that it is right, that one turns around and repents, gets Water Baptism and becomes a new creation.
    So He fulfilled all justice. (Matthew 3, 13)
    V 17…. The Holy Spirit even came upon Jesus < ------ The Holy Spirit DID NOT COME UPON JESUS, Jesus did not get baptized by the Holy Spirit – JESUS was BORN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (This is Blasphemy and something that Kenneth Copeland started to preach – The bible says: Matthew 3:17 – “and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him” – it does not say that Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit, it says a dove (Holy Spirit) came down as a SIGN to the bystanders that Jesus was in FACT the SON OF GOD.)
    So what did Jesus say about the Holy Spirit to his disciples (before death) – (read Johannes 16,7)
    In 1. John 21 Jesus is called the intercessor (I am german, don’t know if this is the right translation for Parakletos.
    So, this was the Announcement of Pentecost,
    What did Jesus say about the authorization by the Holy Spirit (after his resurrection): (John 20, 19-23)

    19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
    21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    Well, Jesus breathed on them….. strange!!!! ;o))
    But the Holy Spirit was not yet here (after resurrection) (Acts 1, 8)
    8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” < ----- When you read your bible, always ask yourself who is being spoken too? He is speaking to the APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES ONLY THOSE COMMISSIONED TO TO OUT AND START THE CHURCH - They did NOT have the WORD OF GOD - They needed the Holy Spirits POWER over them to witness because they were MARTYRED for preaching! Then the Bible was written - the canon was closed, sealed. Do not add or take away from these Words God says!

    Jesus announcement of Toungues: ( short before Ascension) ( read Mark 16,15-18) < ------ See my comment below
    Pentecost ( Acts 2,1-4)
    Now we come to the next 2 points:
    Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came to Earth interchanging with Jesus who was in Heaven. A new Time began. The Time of The Holy Spirit here on Earth and the era of the Church. (Romans 16, 25+26)
    This Experience was unique and not repeatable.
    The Pentecost Experience of the disciples which was / is repeatable.
    Jesus ordered to stay in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father will come (Joel 2,28) < ------- See my comment below
    Acts 2 15, 16 ….. reference to Joel 2, 28 which says
    28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

    Then we can read about the first spreading of the Gospel (Acts 8, 12 – 16)
    Here we can see how a revival happened in Samaria and many came to faith including Simon the Sorcerer. They got saved and baptized.
    14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
    15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
    16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

    Wow: They got saved, baptized and yet the Holy Spirit was fallen upon none of them……..
    Later Peter and John laid on hands and they got the experience….!
    13And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
    14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
    15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. ´

    Acts 11.13-16 – even gentiles got saved 1 and finally” the Holy Ghost fell on them , as on us at the beginning
    And then the deep insight: 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

    1And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inlanda country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized inb the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. 7There were about twelve men in all.

    Acts 19,5-6 Here again saved, baptized, speaking in tongues and even prophesying…
    So now, 1. Corinthians 14,2:
    For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
    So, if it would be demonic, why would Paul then try to make Tongues compatible for church service, in mentioning it several times:

    1 Corinthians 14, 22
    So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

    Tongues as a sign……

    Also for the Jews, that the gentiles will get saved.

    1 Corinthians 14, 22 Tongues as a part of the gifts. Building up the whole church.

    Corinthians 12, 4-11:
    4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
    Interresting! Not gift from the Holy Spirit and tongues from Hell!
    The s a m e spirit!
    Equal with Prophecy if interpreted!
    So, I ask again: So, if it would be demonic, why would Paul then try to make Tongues compatible for church service
    Like seen here:
    Corinthians 14 and here especially Verses 1-6
    Also 16 -25
    So, even if it has to be in order, one cannot avoid tongues when speaking about gifts. And there has never been an order, that tongues have to end with the last Apostle. What`s to think about Gods word if you have to believe one passage, and the next passage is out of order. This would be very disturbing.
    In these instructions which Paul gave about tongues you can also find the second aspect: the personal prayer language.
    Read 1. Corinthians 14. This does not speak about a war in ones mind between Praying in Tongues and Praying with normal words. Paul says it is right to pray in tongues but not in front of other people. They do not understand what you say and don’t get anything out of it. You can see in Verses 15 – 17 that he never denies prayer in tongues.
    He also does not speak about Holy Spirit let prayers in our own mothertongue, otherwise he would not have mentioned the avoidance of difficulties in communication by speaking in own prayer language in front of others.
    Further, why would he say in vers 18 ; I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. (Prayer language) but he states:
    26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. (Tongues as a gift with interpretation).
    And for all people which never saw that one can be too weak to pray the right thing at the right time:
    26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which own cannot be uttered.
    One can interpret it that the Holy Spirit can give impulses through our spirit to pray with words, or it also can be a a hint on tongues.
    I will finish with the footnote that I often realized that even prayer with words can be influenced demonically or soulish. It is a matter of trust, what you will receive, if you will ask God for something and certainly of devotion to Jesus. I think, if we come in the right intension, he will give us bread, not stone…..

    So, now I will finish. Thank you for your ear. This was not a matter of “writing something”. My Heart was in it.

  34. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Firstly, don’t twist my words as you do the bibles and tell me that making a MISTAKE is the same as being in CONSTANT ERROR. I know pretty much immediately when I have made a mistake Beti and will GO OUT OF MY WAY to correct myself – BECAUSE OF THE GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN MY LIFE. False teachers willfully preach error, even when they are told that what they are doing is CONTRADICTING THE BIBLE, they argue and they CONTINUE to preach lies and more often than not because of their disobedience to God these false preachers end up deeper and deeper in DOCTRINES OF DEMONS.

    As for tongues, please read this article Beti. The scriptures you have given you have given OUT OF CONTEXT. Your first problem is with Joel 2,3 and Acts2:17 – if you don’t understand the correct meaning of these scriptures you WILL end up misconstruing all other verses on tongues, prophecy, etc. Please read this article on prophecy:

    Now please listen to me, I am after all a “spiritual superwoman” in your own words. ;) Not mine. A nice insult never the less, but I’m over it. I’ve been called a Pharisee so many times I just read right over it.

  35. Beti says:

    No, dear deborah, I will certainly not read this. And I feel quite comfortable with this decision. Because of Sites like yours, many people really have a hard time in believing the gospel. I really wanted to look up one subject apart from having my view on false teachers and you did it again. My scriptures are “out of context” and you are right. Can it be that you are totally captured in your own rightiouness? So go on defending yourself and your view, it is not my business. Read over all what people say to you, and go on warning the world “in love”, ignoring the most important values in connection to other people.
    I give you the allowance to reply to this, in order to have the last word and to look good. But certainly I will not return to this Site, because you are making things complicated that should be very easy … even for children. And eventually take into consideration, that there might be other human beings also hearing the voice of the Shepherd. You must be very hurt.

  36. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


  37. Beti says:


  38. Paul says:


    THANK YOU so much.
    I’ve been reading you recently and I thank you for all you are doing to expose the false prophets/apostles/teachers/leaders of today.

    Please tell me what’s wrong with James Dobson. I have a lot of respect for him, and his books and radio broadcast have helped me a lot. I just feel completely lost with all I read from your website. I don’t disbelieve you, but I just feel completely lost.
    Also, people like Bonnke and Bill and Franklin Graham.

  39. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I do believe I made notes in green with some links next to each persons name giving reasons as to why they are not kosher. Please read those notes.
    As for Billy Graham, see here: The New Evangelical – Evil fit for a New Dark Age

  40. carl says:

    Hi Deborah, I just wan’t to say sorry for what I have written to you.

  41. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Noooooo problem.

  42. Dan Glass says:

    Dear Deborah — I have been reading the articles and comments on your site with much interest and sympathy. How does one register to post comments, etc.? Thank you, Dan Glass, USA

  43. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    You have just posted a comment :)

  44. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Gosh, this is intense. I’ve read it twice and I am still confused, does he see homosexuality as a sin?

  45. Lee says:

    I’m sorry Debs but I have just read what Hester posted about that book and I have to say something is amiss…there seems to be a common theme of LOVE…..ring any bells lol? who do we know wants to convince everything that LOVE LOVE LOVE makes the world go round ehhh? lol x

    Also all those times Jesus coming to him, you would have thought there would have been a biblically balanced message of repentance given on his part and on others AS WELL AS saying that those who judge unjustly (or unrighteously) will be judged!

    As well, I felt funny when he said the part about a grey man in a suit unwinding cloth from his body….this is suggestive….and there are other things as well that are somehow questionable…but ehhh I hope I’m wrong lol!

  46. Hester says:

    Well that is me too – confused. Almost got the feeling that he doesn’t like Paul and he is bordering on making David and Jonathan gay (maybe I am reading it wrong) but then towards the end he says “The reason why so many relationships, whether gay or straight, fail is that they are based on sex and not on true love.” I dont’ think one would say that unless you are concerned about gay relationships breaking up. Also, just noticed all the influences (Rebecca Brown, Joyce Meyer, Angus) in his life and 1,236 people have already ‘like’ his story.

  47. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    No you are right, I got the same impression. It’s so mind boggling I’m quite astounded actually. And you quoted what I wanted to quote as well, ““The reason why so many relationships, whether gay or straight, fail is that they are based on sex and not on true love.” <– like what the?

    >> I dont’ think one would say that unless you are concerned about gay relationships breaking up.

    Totally agree

    And the demonic spirit 'jesus' that visits him and blows on his neck and lies next to him on the bed to wake him up? Almost an intimate position….. Lying behind him blowing on his neck. And the lamp that turns on by itself. Oh boy.

    What I find interesting is how he got saved, he denounced Jesus Christ and then this demonic ‘jesus’ visits him and he gets saved. That is totally unbiblical.

    And yes he loves Faith like Potatoes (Angus Buchan) and found great info from Rebecca Browns one book and Joyce Meyer.

  48. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    No you are not wrong.

  49. Lee says:

    Debs & Hester,

    Yep Yep Yep and YEP! all what you said as well! especially blowing on his neck! This is all too reminiscent of the times many people say ‘jesus’ visits them and has long conversations with them!

    Also compare the biblical visitations of Jesus with these visions…..where is the Godly fear and respect displayed in the recepients? Look at revelation to see how John reacted to the Glory of God, Look at Daniel, Paul all those, and yet this guy has probably been visited by ‘jesus’ over 10 times????

    Something does not add up, in fact his story seems biblically illogical!

  50. samuel1953 says:

    Hi – Regarding Mr Botha. He has in his “exegesis” made both Jonathan and David gay.He further strongly insinuates that Paul was probably gay. But the real tenor of Botha’s ‘apology’ is a rant against church leaders in general for ‘overlooking’ greed and adultery among church members whilst condemning homosexuality. Botha seems to suggest that condonation of the former two justifies acceptance of the latter. Not convincing.Regards John.
    PS I see Mr Botha has had the location of the Kruger millions revealed to him as well.

  51. Hester says:

    Deborah and Lee
    Do you, when you are faced with these kind of stories, just leave it or do you think one should write to him and maybe give him some of the links on your page? On the one hand i never know if one should even entertain a debate about issues or whether one should just pray for a person like this? What do you think? One of my colleagues at work was trying to let me see the “light” as he feels if you are unable to speak in tongues you are not baptised in the Holy Spirit and after a while i realised that he will not as much not hear what i have to say, he just can’t. Almost like he has made up his mind like that is how it is and anything outside of that is not true.

  52. Lee says:


    I’m gonna let Debs answer you on this one ;)! She’s been there, done that and knows more than me on topics such as these.

    I’ll chip my thoughts after Debs has had a say.

    Over to you Debs ;)…

  53. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I came up with a bright idea the other day of starting a page where I list with a brief explanation false teachers such as these. I started with Deon Hockey – the problem with me is…the brief explanation turned into a full article (much to the amusement of my husband) and I am scared (knowing me) that if I try write articles for every false teacher out there and boy there are thousands of them I will be writing till the cows come home. So what’s the plan? I need to think this over. *thinking*

    The page idea is a good idea but it will become large and cluttered very quickly with the many people out there I need to write about. Plan B is to write small articles and I mean small articles on the likes of James Botha etc and then bigger articles on the major players.

    Regarding writing to someone like him; I would go the article route and email him a link and ask him to dialogue out in the open. And we always pray for people because we just don’t know what is going on in their lives.

    Regarding your colleague – sounds like my grandmother, except my grandmother has told me I am not saved because I am not baptized in the Holy Spirit. She refuses to want to listen to any reasoning. I have given up trying to speak to her. You sow your seeds and then leave it alone if you see you are getting nowhere.

  54. samuel1953 says:

    Hi. Mr Botha appears to be convinced that he is a (the?) evangelist to homosexuals – hence the ‘New Horizon Ministries’, and the appeal for funds. His distorted explanation of Scripture in purported support of his (untenable) position, suggests that he will not be convinced/convicted of his error by way of argument. I believe he is looking for support (on the Web) to justify his stance.Regards John

  55. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Well firstly, Jesus will not visit people in this day and age because He has given us the Holy Spirit as His replacement.

    John 14:15-17 “15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; ”

    Secondly Jesus tells us in the Bible that if anyone tells you that they see Him in this day and age, not to believe them.

    Matthew 24:26 “Therefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.”

    And the rest of James Botha’s story speaks for itself…

  56. Lee says:

    “Well firstly, Jesus will not visit people in this day and age because He has given us the Holy Spirit as His replacement. ” I agree! ! But I was just saying, if He was to, it wouldn’t be like any of these accounts such as this guys story lol…

    I mean…I do think it is possible even though He said the Holy Spirit resides as His witness on earth….I read an account by Howard Pittman about 2 yrs ago, and that seemed biblical, but your right, all we need is the Word & the testimony of the Holy Spirit and if that doesn’t shock us nothing else will loool…you with me loool

    “Secondly Jesus tells us in the Bible that if anyone tells you that they see Him in this day and age, not to believe them.” oh yea lol….I always read this verse as meaning if they see Him physically in one place as opposed to the whole world seeing Him when He returns…

  57. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    John (samuel1953)

    Thanks for the analysis. Glad you paid more attention to what he was saying because I was so taken back I kinda lost track (I’m a poet and didn’t even know it).

    Re; the Kruger millions, my thoughts on this are, “LOL”

  58. Lee says:


    If Jesus truly visits people in this day and age like these accounts say they do, where is the changed life and longevity in their testimony??? Of course their life is changed but is it for the better biblically speaking?

    Like, try see what Im saying, How many times did Jesus visit Paul before Paul did a complete U-turn and became a tool used by God to testify of Christ crucified?

  59. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I see what you are saying.

  60. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    John (samuel1953)

    I found your comment in the spam section, not sure how it landed there, but it’s safe and sound now.

  61. Lee says:


    and also one more thing Hester like Debs has said,

    “Regarding your colleague – sounds like my grandmother, except my grandmother has told me I am not saved because I am not baptized in the Holy Spirit. She refuses to want to listen to any reasoning. I have given up trying to speak to her. You sow your seeds and then leave it alone if you see you are getting nowhere.”

    I agree! Hester, Just point them back to the Bible and scripture. Debs has always done that on here so I don’t see why that shouldn’t be the ultimate authority in discussions like these.

    “One of my colleagues at work was trying to let me see the “light” as he feels if you are unable to speak in tongues you are not baptised in the Holy Spirit and after a while i realised that he will not as much not hear what i have to say, he just can’t. Almost like he has made up his mind like that is how it is and anything outside of that is not true.” –

    Yeah I’ve had this before Hester. I USED to speak in Tongues( err actually it may have been gibberish but I believed back then that when I did God spoke to me) but somehow I had this perception that when you fell into sin, you couldn’t speak it lol! But I stop doing that now because its not even biblical. If people would just read the bible then they would know that God gives gifts etc as He Wills, not us!

  62. Hester says:

    I know the whole Kruger rand thing was also a little weird but i was telling my friend this afternoon about this letter and exactly what Samuel1953 said, i said that I felt that he definitely intimated that maybe Paul was gay as well (at least that’s how i felt).

    Just want to share this little story about tongues. This friend i was talking to this afternoon, and I had an elder pray over us about two years ago so that we can receive the Holy Spirit and he was “leading” her into speaking in tongues. Now picture the scene, all these people in a circle praying and very serious. So, he was like saying these almost inexpressible words and asked her to just let her tongue loose and she can utter these words too. After much coaching, my friend opened her eyes, looked at him and said “uh hu, I’m still English”. No need to tell you we both packed up laughing and decided there and then if we were going to speak in tongues then it will supernaturally come and no amount of cohercing was going to make it happen. We still giggle about that and we still English.

  63. samuel1953 says:

    Hi Debs. I left another short comment about 15 minutes ago – and it disappeared as soon as I clicked the Post Comment block. Its probably gone to spam as well. Perhaps it should have … Regards John
    PS This one worked (This PS is an edit)

  64. Burning Lamp says:

    Lee, there are true believers who do have a prayer language for their prayer closet only – it is not for God to talk to them, but them to talk to God. The issue of tongues has been so perverted, abused and misinterepreted that many believers have taken a “hands off” position and you can’t blame them. AofG says you have to speak in tongues to have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – a lie of Satan! There are so many lies out there and people speaking gibberish in services and creeping people out. But if the Word is rightly divided, there is a legitimacy to this issue, but sadly man’s flesh and Satan make it next to impossible to find that balance.

  65. Jasen Hatten says:

    The only time I see Jesus arguing with people was when He was dealing with the self-righteous, religious leaders. What is the purpose of this website if the focus is not on the person who is lost and needs Jesus, but rather on proving who has more knowledge of the Scriptures?

  66. Hester says:

    Well I am so glad you back!!! Did i offend you with my ‘still english’ story or dit you disappear off the network??

    I have been going on to your webpage since the 4th October and it was like frozen and when I got your mail this morning I leaped for joy!! Thought maybe you showed me the backdoor?? lol

    Okay I am soooo happy you back and I see I have missed out on a lot of action – reading Reinard Bonnke raising the 3rd Old.

    Looking forward to reading some more.

  67. Burning Lamp says:

    Jason, if all you see that is happening on this website is arguing, and one upmanship about proving who is a better student of the Bible, you need to put on your discernment glasses and take another look.

    Have you read the letters of the Apostle Paul and how we are to expose the deeds of darkness?

    Yes, we are to reach the lost, but the other part of that is to teach truth and expose error. Of course that will be resisted, just as the enemy resists in every work for God.

    Deborah is following a call of God to help those who are caught up in error and are being lied to and damaged by the enemy of our souls, the father of lies. If the Church is being deceived it cannot be effective in sharing the Gospel which by the way has been compromised and watered-down.

  68. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Lol, no. I’ve been having internet hassles for the last 2 weeks. I managed to get online last week and then promptly lost my internet connection again. It’s a long story but I hope to be online now permanently. Pray no storm comes up again and destroys my internet ‘infrastructure’.

  69. ian says:

    [delete – this is not an advertising space for Pastor Melnichucks]

  70. Maxine says:

    [deleted – don’t threaten me]

  71. Martin Horan says:

    I saw a television documentary on Reinhard Bonke where he was preaching to Africans. Bonke was chauffeur driven to a stadium full of poor, ragged people waiting to see miracles.
    The reporter said nothing but filmed everything. He let Bonke and his gang speak for themselves.
    What Bonke’s stooges didn’t know was that they were being secretly filmed as they were telling an old lady, blind in one eye, what to do when on stage. She was told to cover her seeing eye and they were showing her where the handkercheif would be from her when Bonke was waving it.
    So when she went on stage, she grabbed where she was shown. Bonke took the applause each time the woman snatched the thing. Bonke is a wicked charlatan.
    If that wasn’t enough–you’d think it would be enough that these quacks are robbing dirt poor people as it is–but a man who had a dying child was kept from gettin into this show.
    So the man went and waited at Bonke’s Rolls Royce. The poor man was shooed away from this limousine.
    However, his child soon died. So the man went back to the car to wait for the Geat Showman himself to turn up. Again Bonke’s henchmen chased the man away with the little corpse after he’d laid it on the bonnet of the Rolls Royce. (No mere ordinary car for Bonke.) He was hoping Bonke would see it and raise the child.
    Why would they chase the man away if their boss can raise from the dead? There was their chance to show the world the Bonke could do it.
    But no, they chased the poor man away with his child’s corpse.
    They were protecting their big boss from a poor, helpless and probably hungry African because they knew very well that their boss was a liar, cheat, con-man and (whether they knowi it or not) headed straight for the pit of hell unless he repents.
    And so are they for carrying out his dirty work.
    How people can do such work when they can see poor people being, as the Bible says, being made merchandise of.
    The thing that confuses and baffles me is that God has given us His Bible showing us how to spot these conning charlatans for what they are. Yet “Christians” still defend these servants of the devil.
    That’s all they can possibly be when they defy the very infallible Word of God so blatantly.
    It’s obvious! Bonke wouldn’t dare try that kind of thing here in Britian. He would be sent packing. That’s why that abuser does it with the poor, gullible Africans.

  72. Arthur Lockridge says:

    Romans 3:4 let God be true, but every man a liar. I am a man that deserves death. I am a sinner but I am after Gods heart with all of my heart. I graduated from bible school with John Bevere in the 80’s. The school was Word of faith bible school. Founded by Robert Tilton which spelled backward is notlit. I believed every lie he preached for 10 years. The church had 8000 members and in 93 Bob divorced Marte and married a beauty queen. This startéd the death of the church. The church was torn down a few years Ago and now there is a hockey complex now. I moved back to Georgia and joined an AOG church the tabernacle.I believed every thing the pastor preached for 5 years. This church was racist and were split because my wife died of cancer on thanksgiving 98. And I married a Black minister from the 99. I am white. This did not set well with my white relatives and the church. I left that church and my black wife and I started our own church. I believed every thing she preached for 4 years. well she divorced me in 2003. I joined another mega church in Norcross Georgia. Victory World Church.a member of association of related churches under guru John fleece the flock to the Maxwell.28 months ago Jesus ask me if I was ready to die and I having all my heart after God said yes yes yes.Jesus said Do What I Did. DWJD. So I did what Jesus Did. I took up my Cross. I denied self. And I am following the real Christ not the counterfeit that is being preached in every church and website in the eârth. I give my perverse flesh to Satan many times a day. Christ gave his flesh to satan in john 13:26/27. Try it you will love it. Now I know the Truth. I am still in bondage to my own evil flesh but satan looses the power God gave him when he gets what belongs to satan. Give the devii what he owns and give God what God owns. My spirit and soul can get a new body but my flesh cannot get a new spirit and soul. Only God dréw me to Jesus. No man told me the Truth. Let God be true but every man a liar. God made it this way so he could have mercy on all. In the beginning GOD.

  73. Cathy says:

    It is interesting to note that NONE of these influential leaders comes from Africa. Is it that there are no influential Christian leaders in Africa or this a reflection of ignorance and tunnel/single focus and perspective.

  74. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Do you note that these so called influential leaders are all FALSE TEACHERS? You ask, “Is it that there are no influential Christian leaders in Africa or this a reflection of ignorance and tunnel/single focus and perspective.” No Africa has thousands of false teachers just like America, the difference is they don’t have the money to back themselves up. Then again, what about TB Joshua, a false teacher/witchdoctor who is a wealthy as can be.

  75. Brad Williams says:

    Check this out just posted today:

  76. Mike Evans says:

    They should have titled this list “The Top 10 Most Influential Heretics of 2010”.
    That said, there is stiff competition for this “honour” and it appears to be growing daily…..
    Have there been yearly updates?
    BTW, I found some of the comments and Deborah’s responses to them informative and highly entertaining.

  77. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I am too scared to see if there are any updates :)

    Thank you for your comment!

  78. Mike Evans says:

    It may have been cited on this site before, but I was intrigued to learn that Bonnke has ties with Rick Joyner – and with Bethel Church/Jesus culture-…/evangelist-reinhard-bonnke-at-jesus.html
    Nothing further needs to be said……….these are arch-heretics, not average ones. No wonder the NAR are making headway in Africa.

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