Can Satan Heal?
I’ve spent many a day praying about the answer to this question and this my dear readers, this IS THE ANSWER to the question that evades everyone so much.
Can Satan heal?
The answer is, absolutely, but in a very ‘counterfeit’ sort of way. You see, Satan can cause sickness, and mankind is born into a sinful evil world. What you see as being a miraculous healing by today’s false prophets is none other than Satan taking away the sickness / injury he had given the person in the first place. Satan can not do any good, he is the father of LIES.
In the bible there is a story of a woman who walked bent over for 18 years. It was a demonic spirit which caused this infirmity. Jesus healed her and she walked upright.
Luke 13:11-13 11 And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up.12 But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, “Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity.” 13 And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
But what about creative healings you ask, an arm with crushed bones starts to slowly fix itself and heal?
Job 2:4-6 4 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. 5 But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face!” 6 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.”
Satan had full control over Job’s body and could do anything to him he wanted, except kill him. We fail to comprehend the immense power Satan has and what he has control over. Of course I am NOT saying that all illness is from Satan. Never. But in the case where people are healed by false teachers, Satan is the cause of the illness to start with.
So what has Satan to gain by taking away an illness from someone? Because you can not see into the spiritual world, you do not know what else Satan has given you in EXCHANGE for you believing in him. Yes, by going to a false teacher you are believing in Satan to heal you. One thing I do know is that the person who has received the counterfeit healing truly believes they were healed by God and ends up following after the false teacher and his doctrine of demons. Satan now has this person’s soul in a firm grip.
Is it not a scary thought to think that Satan spends time planning how to deceive you? If you are unsaved, without the protection of God, you are at his mercy.
1 Peter 5:8 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
So how do you tell what is a genuine healing from God?
The first thing you do is you TEST the words they preach. If they do not tie up with scripture, the man is a false teacher. Sometimes faith healers like to preach as little as possible, and rather concentrate on their core business; counterfeit healing. Understand too that the false teacher is deceived as he truly believes he is performing mighty healings.
Secondly, you look to see if any people are falling over backwards. In the bible no one ever fell over. If they did it, was willingly to WORSHIP God, NO supernatural power involved, and they always FELL FORWARDS (Genesis 17:3, 17, Matthew 26:39, I Corinthians 14:25). When you see people falling backwards, know immediately that a false ‘holy spirit’ is at work.
Thirdly, regarding the healings themselves:
- Jesus NEVER publicised His healings, nor had a healing ministry. He did not use it as an excuse to raise money either. In fact there were times he told those he healed to tell no one. (Matthew 8:1-4, 9:27-31)
- Jesus healed every kind of infirmity. (Matthew 9:35)
- Jesus He did not have special days for healing specific illnessess. Nor any specific time periods when healings would take place.
- Jesus NEVER performed a partial healing. People where “made whole” instantly when Jesus healed. Jesus NEVER told the person that it would take time for them to recover. (Matthew 15:29-31; Mark 7:31-37)
- Jesus NEVER failed to heal anyone in His attempt to heal a person. He never had to make any embarassing explanations.
- Jesus NEVER healed by faith alone, but by divine power.
Now the reason I wrote this little article, besides the fact that it answers that big question, is because I am writing an article or three on some false teachers who have strong occult powers and it appears they perform mighty miracles. But these are not miracles, these are but mere Satanic illusions.
2 Corinthians 11:14 “14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.”
In fact the signs and wonders these men are performing are so surreal even I had to put my eyes balls back in their sockets and do a double take and triple take. It made me realise how susceptible people are who do not know the Word of God well, who do not have a good relationship with Jesus Christ, that they will actually believe these things. Because in the end times Satan will do GREAT signs and wonders through his false prophets:
Matthew 24:24 “24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” and
2 Thessalonians 2:9 “9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders”.
And when the anti-Christ is on the scene he will even call fire down from the sky.
Revelation 13:13 “13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.”
The number of false prophets creeping out of the woodwork is astronomical; the numbers range into the hundreds of thousands. Many use hypnosis on their audience and the power of suggestion which is demonic never the less, but there are some who wield terrible occult power and once you land in their grasp it’s very difficult to escape.
Well this one will probably get a ton of comments (“attacks”) since people who build there “relationship” with Jesus (which one?) on all their emotions and experiences will most likely be majorly offended and try and protect their idols like old Benny Hinn etc…
This is a GREAT article! May many come to the knowledge of the truth through this..
😉
Since I made this comment I’ll probably have to go back and reply on my previous comment in another thread as well hey Deb’s..
Lourens
I am ready, bring it on.
You can reply to your other comments, just don’t give me a hard time 😉 eehehehe (grins)
Brilliant Article!
Yes! Satan can heal but at the cost- a spiritual cost. I once seen a documentary about a hindu devotee turning into some kind of `monkey god` with his facial features contorted the tongue hanging out-and the `disciples` hung fruit on hooks onto his back and he has some thing pierced through his tongue. Then after he gets wipped up by drums and a the blood of a headless chicken is sprayed on him and others-the sick are brought to him. His `helpers ` guides his hand to the heads of the sick -and a mere touch healed `healed `them. The sickness he caused is lifted off and the devotee is more hooked by the powers-more mesmerized-their souls more entangled than before-yet now in a healthy body. I m still not convinced that dramatic healings took place there but anyhow its `believed` to have happened!
Amongst the “healings” and “miracles” claimed on programs like Sid Roth’s “Supernatural” are instant weight loss, teeth repaired, etc. might be real, but only in the deluded eyes of the beholder who has bought into Satan’s counterfeits.
P.T. Barnum was right – there’s a sucker born every minute. And those who are sucked into delusion are the “signs and wonders” crowd that is into experience and have forgotten the verse that says “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Hebrews 11:1
BL
Yip and then you get those absolutely ridiculous healings, where the person REALLY believes through the power of suggestion that their bald patch now has hair….or will have hair in a few days time. hmmm
I couldn’t have said it better myself. I have RA and I have often thought, if Satan offered to back off and let me live pain free, I would choose the pain rather than to receive anything from Satan. I know that any suffering I may endure is nothing compared to what our precious Lord endured and everything that I go through is for His ultimate glory. Nothing is better than that!
Just after the Lord saved me, i had such a hunger for the word. I read ANYTHING remotely christian. “the faith movement’s books” had me satisfied. Copeland Hinn and the whole throng. Soon i was the “star” being “slayen in the spirit”. Falling backwards, shaking, laughing in the spirit, crying the whole thing. At every church i visited “god seem to visit and touch me alone, i was his favourate”. I guess not funny or strange that you would mention “the exchange in return for being touched by god”. The sins that had me bound came back into my life…and with much stronger intensity. Someone must have started praying for me as the Holy Spirit started focussing my attention to some scriptures and revealing how the true God works and helping me to get to know Him(them)Father,Son,Spirit.I rejected the false teachers, there teachings and the false workings of satan. Since 1994 none of these manifestations have returned.
David
Awesome testimony. Thank the Lord you opened your eyes to the truth. Millions won’t.
yep, know this, been there, seen it and had it all! the church I was in had this type of ‘power’ and I swallowed the bait, hook line and sinker! The pastor there….oh boy…..I could swear to you that he was of God but (Debs you know my story) when I left I the scales came off…actually the scales were coming off as I started getting serious in my relationship with Christ. Healings DID take place but they did not spur the person to grow Godly and more Christ-like. What actuall happens with these false healers/teachers occultists is that the sign of them being false is if ou end up coming back to them for healing more than you would put faith in Christ.
After I had left, I had found my faith to be more directed in the pastor than in Jesus Christ now that is VER worrying. BUT this is the demonic fruit of such who get ‘bound’ by false teacher’s demonic healing powers.
Another thing, falling over backwards was a sign of judgement in the bible. Look up the soldiers who came to take Jesus in the Garden, when He said ‘I am he’ they drew back, which suggests that they fell back and realised judgement would come on them. Personally, throughout all my “Churchianity” experience, Thank God I have NEVER EVER FALLEN over willingly or otherwise under any power. When I was younger, 98% of everyone did but when the pastor came to me, I felt nothing. no shaking/convulsing, its like God protected me at every instance. However there was a time where I got pushed over by a “prophetess” who said the devil wanted me but he can’t have me….Lord knows if that was orchestrated as well. Anyhow, once in a service, the pastor did occult on me. He laid hands on me, then waited for 1min and then my legs started shaking, then he said “he’s right beside you” but I felt odd and awkward, and I know I should have left but I was young and what does one do when everyone is going one way and you know something is amiss ehh. I decided to leave the church without telling anyone…I never walked….I RAN!
Also, once you get in their grip, all hell breaks loose. I remember there were moments where I thought I wonder if this was spiritually orchestrated to make it look like it is from God when it wasn’t…and I had the gut feeling it was. too many examples for me to give so I’ll keep it short…but a time when I had always come to church, and the pastor would preach biblically then at the end of the service, look at his hands and say “theres an anointing here tonight…I see money in my hands” “if you want it, come up and i’ll rub it into your forehead” and I stupidly went up because what did I know, I’m young and not “mature” in Christ even when I had a feeling that this was demonic. Also another instance when I had sleep paralysis I had been attacked in my sleep spiritually my then pastor appeared in my dream and said it will never happen again e.t.c. which was a lie…also another instance was when he said he always sees ahead every service and knows what will take place because God has shown him….also he said he had visions of me and laid hands on me and transferred (demonic Im sure) things to me which affected my daily functioning. It had been like my mind was bound and everytime I tried to pray I would experience some attack spiritually! It was really bad….I bet I was the only one to see him for he is….phoney, snakeoil and a charlatan! i think he knows I know and once they do that the false teachers behave differently towards you! It was truly horrible I tell you. being with unbelievers was better because at least you know what your getting rather than being in “church”!
Everything that Satan has his hand in has a sinister and destructive result…so he does operate with temporary counterfeit healings and other convincing tricks…rather like a good magician or con-man…but nothing miraculous.
Another mistake that is common especially amongst charismatics is that do unbiblical rituals …ie like binding Satan in the name of Jesus…this is rather ridiculous as well as Satan is not omnipresent and can only be in one place at any given time…ie cannot attack everybody…one billion plus…attacks are carried out by his agents (evil spirits/demons).
Lee and David: praise the Lord for getting you o-u-t.
stem saam
Another thing, when you get in charasmatic circles, if your healed in a gathering, people automatically assume God healed you when thats not always the case. there are a number of things to test using the Word to prove the source of power experienced in those settings. namely, the fruit before and after being healed, the person throw whom healing is provided and the church itself. God CAN still heal in a false setting, BUT that entirely rests between the individual and God. and in any case, being healed in false churches e.t.c. does not validate the person, ministry or the teaching by God. it takes more than that to find out if it was God. I have been healed but one has to wonder after a number of years, like David, your sins come back stronger and in any case, you start having sinful problems with sins that were never yours before you became saved! this is all the work of the false spirit of course, how stupid I was. Never ever setting foot in those churches. I know TOO much of what REALLY goes in. I had the impression but now I KNOW for sure. Like many others, I am VERY ANGRY AND BITTER about what I have gone through but I must get over it and seek God again. In a way it is good because coming out shows you what your faith is made of so in that way there really is a blessing that God can work for the individual if their willing to seek after God and walk the narrow way!
Lee
>> there are a number of things to test using the Word to prove the source of power experienced in those settings. namely, the fruit before and after being healed,
No Lee. To be honest I am quite tired of this ‘FRUIT’ thing. I am beginning to think everyone has turned into fruitcakes lol 😉 Let’s take Patricia King’s ministry, Extreme Prophetic. They produce some seriously good looking ‘fruit’, BUT WHAT THEY PREACH IS A LOAD OF RUBBISH. She is a New Age Spiritualist type Christian, who feeds the poor, gets people off drugs, helps all sorts of problems in ever way possible, butter could not melt in this womans mouth. FRUIT is NOT the test to see what is of God and not of God. For some unknown reason everyone seems to think this is the test. My word, noooo noooo noooo, and one more time nooooo.
Does God heal in false churches? The percentage is MINIMAL; 0,001%/.
You say you were healed. At a false church under a false preacher? And now your life is in a shambles, you sin is seven fold and you are struggling like never before. Has it occurred to you that your healing was as I described above. Hence the fact that you are now sitting in this situation. Oh dear Lee. I really do pray for you.
Lee, be thankful God opened your eyes and you came out of this false teaching. You must seek God and get over the anger and bitterness or it will be just as bad as what you have been brought out of. That is a normal reaction, and we are to hate false teaching that harms people, but don’t let it get out of balance. Get into the Word and put it into perspective. Ask God to show you where you go from here and how you can help others who are still under bondage to the false teachings.
I do agree that God can minister even under false teaching. People do get saved by watching TBN for instance. But TBN mixes truth and error and dispenses poison to new converts. God’s Word has changed a heart, not TBN or any other group. I know this from personal experience. We can’t go on experience, but I know that God ministered to me through a TV program of a false teacher. But He also revealed to me the error. I reached out to God in the only way I knew how to do at the time. But this is not God’s best and He does not want us to stay there.
You need to repent of all the falseness of which you were a part and renounce it completely and totally. Then feed yourself on the pure Word of God. Be very careful about who you follow in the future. Know how to judge the false from the true. Like Deborah said, false teachers can produce some pretty attractive fruit and they mask their evil with good works, but they also produce rotten fruit. Be careful of those who mix truth and error. It is a mine field out there. Deborah’s mission is to inform and protect people from false teachers and their poisonous fruit. She has a wealth of information available – plug into it and grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord.
Use your testimony to snatch others from the fire, but only as God leads. Direct others to this site. Take positive actions so you can be free once and for all from the pit from which you have been delivered. Remember, the enemy of our souls wants you in turmoil. Grasp the wonderful grace of God and you do not need to carry guilt – rejoice instead in your freedom in Christ and His love for you. Settle the issue of salvation in your heart.
Don’t get sidetraced by trying to analyze your healing – just REST in God and He will lead you into truth through His Word.
Debs,
loool fruitcakes ;)!! I see what you mean. well maybe the fruit AND what they teach perhaps?
to tell you the truth, one does not see until they COME OUT of their settings and evaluate what they have been through. It literally is like having blinders on you eyes. But the fruit thing is just one aspect like I said. there are other things to look at. the litmus test is the spirit behind the teaching as well as the fruit. Like I said, there are other things but you already know them
yep the percentage of healing is MINIMAL but…depending on the individual will determine what happens to them. I was healed, im sure some of it was demonic problems, and most of it was caused by my own willful sin BUT with me, I have always known the REAL Gospel from a child so God was able to work on what I knew about Him from His Word, thats why I said some can be healed; I wasn’t saved then but I KNEW like…I just KNEW Jesus was is and always will be the truth, I just had the conviction and impression of the Word instilled in me so from that perspective when I approached God in faith in a false setting, I was able to get healed. BUT of course like you say it is minimal, and that is because of leaven in the gathering.
I hope im not chatting rubbish lool…i hope you understanf what im tryna say still haha
Yeah I’m aware it is like what you described Debs 🙁
IT IS VERY SAD AND IM ANGRY! but i must get over it…i can’t act like woe is me lool
please pray for me 🙂 thanks, some people have no idea the spiritual abuse that took place in that setting…it was severe, i tell you that!
ill stop commenting maybe im irritating you lol…I just want to vent my frustrations to someone who KNOWS what im trying to express..but oh well
Debs
Actually let me retract my first response and correct what I said. I agree you are right, my situation is EXACTLY like you described above. I knew already before you put this up! BUT what really worries me day and night, is not who healed what e.t.c. but whether God knows me and I am saved. I suppose that is one good thing that has come from coming out of these settings…God can focus you in on the real truthful stuff. But yep, i think of all i had done in ‘Jesus name’ and I think it was all a sham….every single one of it. I think has any good thing been produced in me…not really. I’m wicked, sinful and just desperately so….BUT ask me to willfully sin and blaspheme or some kind and I cannot. There was a period after leaving that I went mentally mad, and that I was imagining what I was experiencing with all sorts of attacks…almost to the point of blaspheming God and wanting to commit suicide. it was like they set it up against me 9i can’t go into it but it was VERY bad) so yes to David, I got out, but spiritually like Debs said, I’m still stuck in the rut. everything I have learned there needs to be washed from my mind and i need to start from scratch.
Lee, you don’t give yourself enough credit for the wisdom God has mercifully shown you.
Ephesians 5:26 talks about the washing of the Word. Get yourself a GOOD translation of the Bible and read the John’s Gospel, Romans and Ephesians to start. I personally prefer the New King James translation.
I have been blessed and have grown in grace using the commentaries of H.A. Ironside in conjunction with reading the Word. You can find his works online. You have to diligently seek them, but they are a great tool.
Be VERY CAREFUL about what you put into your eargate and eyegate. You will be purging yourself of the old ways and replacing them with pure truth. Satan will fight you, but TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!
Set yourself on the right track. Use this site as a guide to keep from falling for false teaching. There is a whole lot more out there than what you came out of.
Ask God to send you people who can exhort and encourage you.
May He bless and guide you into all TRUTH and protect you as you grow in grace.
Burning Lamp wrote:
I do try tell people…some won’t believe it at first and I don’t blame them, how can they, BUT at least I’ve told them and God will give them grace to see it and the mercy to run from it. God is patient. He knows what we’re like. Most won’t believe but some can’t because they’re whole time is invested in such groups so you remove that, then you remove their identity and faith e.t.c.!
Lee…your response is understandable but not excuseable…you have to pray for these people for the scales to fall from their eyes.
I too was a victim of not so much the WOF as I was always wary of their teachings but generally charismatic hierachy tend to become control freaks and manipulators par excellence.
There is also a lack of accuracy and lack of integrity seeping in there. Pray for those that are truly and with honesty seeking the Lord there to come to their senses.
Burning Lamp wrote:
Thanks BL. I already have KJV (King James) I personally love the older versions because they give the more original sense of meaning rather than the modern version. and plus I’ve always read it as a child so thats what I’ll use.
yep, ill be much more careful, don’t worry! I’m much more stronger and realise God won’t judge me for thinking for myself, as most of these cults would have you believe. He also won’t judge me if I say nay and they all together say yea! because of my discernment, so no noI won’t be falling for that trick. If ever I come across anyone who attempts to spiritually prostitute me of the truth, I shall flee, for no man shall have control over me! and I mean it lol!
Michael wrote:
Michael, your right. but even now I still suffer from the repercussions as more and more things that I didn’t realise were actually false. Somebody on another thread once rightly said, when you realise the enemy is in the camp, an anger rises in you that just makes you feel justified in it, I know its not good but some people are AWARE of what they do in those various factions and because of that, they won’t get away! I forgive them, but want nothing to do with them. When I was leaving, see how quick they were to coo me into coming back starting with the blessings are flowing e.t.c. but I saw right through it. Now they don’t bother me anymore.
Lee, I hear your heart and God knows your heart. You are right, He is patient and I for one am grateful for that.
One thing that might be helpful – you seem to be condemning yourself – you are God’s creation, you are not stupid – you were naive and fell for wrong teaching, but you are not stupid.
Michaek is right – you do need to diligently pray for the others – this is good for your spiritual health as well.
Glad you have written off “Christian” Trash Bin News – or as I have heard it called The Blasphemy Network. Daystar and God TV are all corrupt and mix truth and error.
My heart goes out to those who have been born into cults or indoctrinated from childhood whether it be WofF, Catholicism, Mormonism, JWs,Domionism, Calvinism, or any of the “isms”. When God reveals error to us we must not keep it to ourselves, but first we must PRAY for those in bondage, especially those we know. PRAY for an opening to plant a seed or doubt for them to ponder. But it is GOD’s work and HIS Holy Spirit who has to open eyes.
REST in the Lord – get grounded in His Word.
Blessings to you!
Lee
I spent some time yesterday asking Jesus about you, and then phoned a wise owl’ess called my mom (jemfishy). Your story got me thinking quite a bit, but after reading your comments over and over again, praying and speaking to my mother (who might I add had to deal with me growing up lol) this is the answer.
This is gonna be a tough answer, but listen to it: You can’t make excuses for your sinful life now because of what happened to you at these churches. Satan will use everything and I mean everything he finds to keep you to wallowing deep in sin, and blaming others for it is one of them. Remember in the email exchange I told you that you needed to start from the beginning again. Did you make a list of all your sins, everything you’ve done your whole life through, including going to these false churches, etc. It’s the best way ever to ask Jesus forgiveness for each and ever single sin in your life; if you have taken the time to write them all down. And my list was looooooooong! Then I want you to pray the sinners payer, asking Jesus Christ to come into your life. And read out the list, and ask Jesus to forgive you for each and every single sin afterwards, tell Him that you WANT TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS but only He can help you. Now Lee understand that a relationship is a two way street. It means that you must also try to stop sinning – God wants to see you are trying. Then when Satan comes to tempt you, you rebuke him and tell him to get behind you in a lovely stern voice, “Luke 4:8 8 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan!” You then continue to pray asking Jesus for help. It’s going to be a long battle. Your situation is going to involve a lot of prayer, rebuking satan and a lot of YOU WANTING TO NOT sin anymore.
You say you heart is hard, well un-harden it and quickly. You either love Jesus or you don’t. You either want to partake in your sin, or your don’t. Pray and ask Jesus to give you peace, ask Him to remove this anger you have inside you, ask Him to un-hearden that heart of yours.
Are you saved? Well I can’t answer that question. BUT THERE IS GOOD NEWS ;))))) lol. Sometimes we go through ordeals to learn lessons in order to help others in the long run. BUT YOU GOTTA GET UP OUT OF THE GUTTER and DUST YOURSELF OFF AND DO IT RIGHT FROM NOW ON. I have shown you what to do – NOW DOOOO IT. DO IT BEFORE I fly over there and beat you to a pulp. (and I mean that in the nicest possibly way ahahaha – you are lucky I am poor and can’t afford the flight.)
Amen Debs – Lee – the first step out of the pit is to be sure that you are truly saved, that you have truly repented and accepted Christ as your personal Savior.
You don’t need to “clean up” to come to Christ – He meets you right where you are. But your whole attitude toward sin should be changed when you have the Holy Spirit.
It may take some time to totally get clear out all the garbage, but if you apply yourself, you WILL grow in grace and knowledge.
Debs has some unvarnished truth for you, but think about it. She has taken the time to examine your comments and seek advice as to the best way to help you. She cares. And Jesus cares. But you have to respond and act upon His invitation.
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Debs thanks :)! I know what your saying is true. You sound like my mum as well lool. AND SOMETHING TOLD ME YOU WERE REALLY AGONSISING AND ASKING JESUS ABOUT ME! I just knew it! *sigh* this is what agonises me day in day out, whether I’m saved.for 3 years before I came on here. it was after my grandmother passed away a few days after Michael Jackson that I was like “where has she gone” because I used to teach her everything I learnt at the WOF church. But I know she was saved but I feel guilty for her death. Debs,
I started to make a list from a couple of years ago (even before I came on here) when I was in the church (at that time i was reading the Brown books) but then things got worse, I got attacked every way possible, I got scared (like my heart started beating fast, I felt like fear came over me) and I just felt like I was being watched constantly, I tried Debs I REALLY DID try but before discvoering this blog I said to God look “my heart really wants you BUT my sin bounds me and because I stay there I love it” and you know what, I was being honest to God. because God knows my heart therefore theres no point pretending to be a Child of his if and when I come before Him and he says I don’t know you. But everytime I find I run away from him in anger or almost wanting to blasphemy him, I just can’t quite do it. Like something in my heart is completely reserved for Jesus or if I’m in trouble my fast reaction is to go to Him at least. and the worst thing is when I was at these churches I used to preach to everyone at college and my family e.t.c. so they look up to me or say “hey…you believe in Jesus” or “bible basher” but when I look back, I think what a liar/hypocrite I am. At least it gives me a chance to be honest with myself and God. but this all happened while I was still in the church. So yes I did make a list and did repent and pray a sinners prayer but Debs let me tell you, that doesn’t work! I know you’ve written about Paul Washer in some respects but he IS sound on the idea that sinners prayer is not biblical. I don’t know how many times I have done that, but my heart is hard/unregenerate and it only takes the Holy Spirit to make it a heart of flesh and alive again…it makes sense; a dead heart cannot be opened to Jesus unless the Holy Spirit convicts and quickens the individual. So Paul is right and I had listened to quite a bit of his sermons and he is sound on the doctrine of being regenerated which is very important.
Am I saved? As I made the list and daily think about the things I have done before and after “being saved” in the wof church, there seems to be little to prove that I could be; yes I preached to people and went to church and had my pet sins here and there but so much of my thinking was wof that when I now look back it is hard to see any thing to point to Jesus. (Oh btw, I stopped reading my bible quite a bit when I was in there so that maybe a reason to my slow growth) what I do know is I was convicted through my early walk and I was hungry for more of God and was protected/blessed/chastised by God in my personal life but as I fell into sin and stayed there the voice of God began to be more distant and quiet, cropping up once in a while. But one thing is for sure, I WAS steeped in WOF church so it can be hard to see my own growth around that context. Only time will tell. But as I say, it is my heart. What does my heart say about Jesus? well…its lukewarm. So maybe I’m backslid, but If I am saved I CANNOT STAY THERE. and this is what Washer had said about Christians falling into sin.
sometimes I would get angry at God but not quite do away with Him. I just felt spiritually pressured like fear in my heart and a spirit that attacked me and used people around me to hate me the moment I decided for God so I’d shy away from trying to be right with Him. If I heard somebody talk about Him I am interested and very fond of Him but I can’t say I love Him the way he commands me to in His word because of the condition of my heart. I am being honest here lool…it IS the best policy, so you don’t have to be pallypal with me and get deceived thinking everyone who comments here is “right with God”!
Hahaha I’m trying amongst my busy schedule of work and college. your welcome to come over! In fact I’d probably travel over to SA since I haven’t been there. (Im from Nigeria) I need to see my family again over there so maybe I work for money then come over haha. No Debs, thanks for being tough. Its exactly what was impresse upon my heart a while ago from God that I can’t make excuses. I know that. Its a tired excuse and what go down well with God.
Burning Lamp wrote:
BL, no no no I’m just making it easier for God so I won’t be surprised if I do get condemned. Last year, I was attacked and told that I AM the antichrist and that I can’t be saved because God has ordained me as a vessel of dishonour and instrument of wrath. I know it is the devil but the attack was so convincing he used everything to make it seem real and true. And this is why (to Debs) I TRIED to repent but in my mind, this voice impressed that I have done the unforgivable sin and that God won’t accept me back. the spirit attacked me through sleep paralysis a couple years when I was in the wof church and I started seeing errors and becamse serious for Christ. that spirit told me in my sleep “YOU WILL BOW DOWN TO ME” and then last year said that everyone I come into contact with is spiritually affected so I started isolating myself from everyone despairing life and considering suicide but I know I couldn’t do that. even my mum noticed I wasn’t myself. But how could I tell her….that would crush her heart that her only son child who she raised with Godly principles is now in this state, who preached to people and was a blessing. So I thought, If God/Jesus doesn’t want me, then no one can have me. Some days I just get up and think what am I doing here??? no point doing anything in life as I’ll just go back to the ground and turn to dust and after death, the judgement. So I thought, condemn me because at least if I start to tell everyone that I’m no Christian because I’m no disciple and child of God/Christ then no one is going to be surprised on that great and terrible day. and I don’t want you to be to Debs, BL et al! and thats when I think “its better to not have known Him than to know Him and turn away” and thats what I can’t fully do, turn away. Because if I do, there is no more scarifice but a certain expectation of judgement to come which I feel. I really do curse the day I was born. You know when I was younger, I said to myself I would be all for Jesus but I may be the very company of people He’s addressing as lukewarm, false “I never knew you”. As you grow in life, you just realise being a Disciple and Christian is NOT easy. it really isn’t. and so I thought I can’t live like this. I really really wish I wasn’t born; btw I’m a bastard/illegitimate child, so I shouldn’t have been.
Burning Lamp wrote:
Thanks BL! your right!
Lee, your situation can be boiled down into one word: CONFUSION.
Word of advice: Forget Paul Washer. He is yet another false teacher. In fact, stop listening to any speakers. That is what got you into trouble in the first place.
You are right, the Sinner’s Prayer does NOT save you. Anyone can mouth the words and not mean them in their heart. HOWEVER, it is NOT the words that save your soul – it is a way of expressing what is in your heart. Often we need a GUIDE to help us express ourselves. Also, the Bible DOES say to confess with your mouth that you trust Jesus for your salvation.
Washer and other Calvinists don’t believe in the Sinner’s Prayer because they believe that NO ONE can make a choice for Christ! You don’t want to listen to anyone who believes that, do you?
Who is the author of CONFUSION? You know the answer: SATAN. You are ALLOWING him to confuse you. RESIST him and get back to BASICS. He wants you to feel worthless and condemned. He wants you to agonize over the past. CAST DOWN THESE THOUGHTS do not entertain them. LEARN the Word of God and USE SCRIPTURE to combat the lies of the enemy.
When your responses get shorter and clearer, we will know that you are doing this. Until you settle this in your mind that you are going to RESIST Satan and INSIST on clearing your mind of destructive thoughts you will continue to be CONFUSED.
Right now your expressions are mumbled and jumbled and CONFUSED. STOP!!!
This is said in LOVE and CONCERN for your spiritual well-being. I pray you will have clarity and freedom from the one who seeks your destruction.
One rule of thumb: If you think you have committed the unpardonable sin, you haven’t.
Grace and peace.
Debs, please explain the second test that tests if the healing is genuinely from God, i.e. Falling backwards or forwards. What is the difference between the two? why id falling backwards false?
Hi Lee-
I am commenting here for the first time, though I lurk here more often. I am posting because your story has touched me. It grieves me to hear this pain you are enduring from enemy activity in your mind and life. It sounds like you have been given some good advice already and I would like to add some thoughts too that I hope will help. They always help me when I am under attack so I will share them with you in hopes they will help you too.
It seems that the major line of attack being waged against you is that the Lord Jesus Christ does not want you/has rejected you because you are such an awful person, and what you have been involved in, etc. This is being made very believable, with a great many proofs which you cannot deny. In short, the accuser is doing his work of accusing (which seems to be the only time he ever tells the truth!) and he seems to be working over time on you. Your defense has been to try and find something in yourself to prove that you really are a Christian: an appeal to becoming “serious for Christ”, walking as a disciple, being “all for Jesus”. All of these are important things for Christians to do so I am not discounting them at all. But I do want to point out that they are very “you” focused. I do not see that you have turned your gaze from yourself to the cross of Christ. Since the cross of Christ is the place where Satan was defeated I think it might be useful to spend some time looking at that.
Every single one of those failings which Satan uses to accuse you is answered in the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. Every single one. Not one left out. Every one.
Do you remember Colossians 2:13-14? “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
And then Romans 8:31-34: “What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us [and He is], who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”
What do these verses tell you but that Christ’s death silences Satan’s accusing attacks? Satan knows perfectly well that Jesus’ death answers all of his accusations against believers. He just does not want YOU to know it. So instead he points out your sin so you will agree with him that when God says He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, He doesn’t really mean it (“Yea, hath God said?”). The response to that is not, “but I got serious for Christ so I must be saved.” Nor is it “but I said I would be all for Jesus so I must be saved.” (And it is pretty obvious that that approach to this problem is not working.)
The Biblical answer to the accusing demons is “Who are you to bring this charge? It is God who justifies. Who are you to condemn? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God making intercession for me. I know He did these things, I know He did them for me, and I know the justice of God against my sin is satisfied in the death and the blood of the Risen Lord Jesus Christ. And He did these things precisely because of all these things you bring against me. I rest my confidence not in myself but in His work on my behalf. If that is insufficient for you, demon, then take it up with Him.”
Do not point to yourself as your defense. If you do that, Satan has you right where he wants you because in your flesh dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18) so he can use that against you until the cows come home. Point him, and more importantly yourself, to Christ’s cross work. He has no recourse against that and he knows it. Satan knows God’s justice against your sin was satisfied there (He has taken the handwriting of requirements against us out of the way, having nailed it to the cross). The important thing is, do YOU know it? Never mind whether you are worthy of it. Of course you are not. That is what makes it a gift of God’s grace. (And it seems right now what you need is a good, hefty dose of grace.) Do you see that God’s justice against your sin is satisfied in the death of His Son? And have you rested the full weight of your confidence on it for your salvation? I am assuming you have (if not, then do so now) but have somehow lost touch with this fundamental truth which is the foundation of your relationship with God. Consequently, a great many torments have beset you. Get back to it and I bet you will find, as the Lord establishes you in the truth of it, that the enemy will have to flee, eventually never to return (at least not to wage THIS assault against you anymore.)
I hope this does not sound too simplistic. It really did work for me every time when Satan used to try to torment me that way. No matter the accusation or fear Satan tried to throw at me concerning my acceptance before God, it could not withstand the truth of Christ crucified for me. He doesn’t even bother trying to assault me that way anymore as he knows he won’t win.
Eleanor
Slain in the spirit as they call it – the person usually falls backwards…. or if the pastor touches a person and they faint and fall down or fall backwards. ] <— none of this is found in the bible, no one ever fell backwards. When you see people falling over backwards at churches, turn around and leave because there is the FALSE “holy spirit” operating.
The only time someone ever fell FORWARDS in the bible was when they wanted to willingly worship God.
I do believe there was a time when someone fell backwards in the bible, but it was because the man was demon possessed and when Jesus entered the room, the man fell backwards calling out that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Jesus cast the demon out the man.
Falling backwards (away from God) is Satan’s counterfeit move to falling forwards in prayer/worship towards God.
Burning Lamp wrote:
Le Mouse wrote:
Le Mouse, thank you so much for contributing. Yes the attacks have been/are non-stop. Ok maybe i should have made it more clearer lool sorry…when I said “serious for Christ” I didn’t mean look to myself or something within myself that could validate my salvation. I just meant it as an expression of wanting to leave falsehood/leaven churches. At that point, I was (and to some extent) am still in a turmoil with whether am saved (or just backslid) but I see my main downfall while being in the church was not reading/studying the Word to be shown approved – which I haven’t done. So thats what I sought to do, and I’ve had bollards and cones and every sort of spiritual block put in my way to ‘regulate’ me into finding the truth; rather I wanted biblical truth, which as you know, is NEVER ‘regulated’ but raw and true. So when I said serious, I indeed meant look to the cross and to lay my sin there. but thank you. your very right. I’m glad someone knows what I’m talking about and has been through this because its one thing to say “oh just believe on God and he’ll swing by and save the day” but its another to actually say “…look i have been through this so and so, i have walked in your shoes, I know what your saying…” because until someone walks the mile, they do no truly know. Yes, my mind was/is messed up it truely was horrifying. I wasn’t even able to add simple numbers (yep that bad) or even remember basic facts….like I was suffering amnesia or something. I even forgot who I was. I think I said to myself that God had given me over to satan and everyone knew it, somethign like it was a conspiracy and “they’re” out to get me. yep it was really bad. But thanks I will look into that scripture. to help me. and keep commenting 🙂 do not lurk! I want people to dialogue with me and I dare someone to say rubbish to my face about the topic at hand “Can Satan Heal” because I will be so annoyed lol ;)! God Bless!
and Debs,
I just like to thank you 🙂
I hope you can keep up with my lengthy replies loool! not given you too much work to do I hope ;)!
hey Deborah! have you ever noticed that everyone is fighting for himself to be heard better than others.everyone speak in scriptures(bible),but nobody is supporting others “everybody is fighting against others”; until when im just asking? EVERYONE IS GIVING PROOF THAT HE IS RIGHT. even you, if i can say you are wrong u won’t accept, neh? why because you also a man like others. so please good people leave it all to Christ, He knows all.Everyone will stand before the throne for everywork he did!
LeMouse, I echo your thoughts for Lee, very wise advice.
Yes, Lee needs to know the pure and simple LOVE of Christ. Thank you for helping to clear up the confusion.
Years ago a distant family member of mine was “healed” by Oral Roberts. His leg actually did grow an inch to compensate for a motorcycle injury to his foot. But the healing proved occult.
The strange thing was that he could then levitate tables after his encounter with Roberts. He still follows false teachings as Copeland being a favorite.
Le Mouse —Great comment…
Lee it is my pleasure. I really pray for you. I know what the other side is like and I want NO ONE TO GO THERE, but alas many willingly want to go there and then others who are trapped and trying to get out, these are the ones I try help all I can. Everyone is precious, every soul is precious, you are precious Lee and to Jesus you are most precious of all.
sos
What tripe are you speaking? Ah the spirit in you would love everyone that is giving biblical help to just shut up eh? Well sorry for you Luke 4:8 8 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan!”
Heya Kim
Thank you for commenting 🙂
no! i’m not saying shut up, coz that language is worldly and it shows rudeness.i’m sor if you heard me wrong. but i’m saying i see no help in these arguments, unless God by His spirit reveals the truth to somebody you won’t change or help a man. u kno what good friend; as i said, everyone is against somebody here in this world. what is painful is that we are using the word of God. as i’m typing to u this msg somebody is busy searching about you, to critise you and put spots on you, so what we will say if we get some bad news about you, must we believe them or not? if not why? i’m sor if u wil hear as if i’m against somebody, no its not like that, it just a comment.bles you bafethu,happy holidays!
my advise! if we can preach the good news to people, and forget about who is doing what cause that one will never help. i mean preaching without touching the names of a man, but give people the name of Jesus We will get the good results, One thing for sure to help people is to preach the gospel of God and leave people with their do’s, God Holy Spirit will intervene to help,comfort, teach,etc… “its just my opinion” thanks
sos
So you can’t see any help in these comments (NOT arguments). Interesting. And of course God reveals by His Spirit the truth to someone, that is why I pray people see the TRUTH. My words, anyone’s words on this blog are just stepping stones, they are not the Word of God. Your argument is about as useless as I dunno what, because that means all churches should just shut down, everyone who has anything to say, should keep quiet because they are a waste of time and ‘using the word of God’. Have you ever… “using the word of God”? Pfff. I think not !
As for your advise and opinions, let me “USE” the Word of GOD to show you how wrong you are: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/mark-them-which-cause-division/
The above picture showing people lying down…falling down…being slain as they call it, in the spirit or worse drunk in the spirit. What spirit?? certainly not the Holy Spirit (blasphemy and an insult to Him)hmmm…looks like perhaps cane spirit if the cause is drunkeness or perhaps the devil has given them a dose of anaesthetic before he performs an “operation” on them.
Thanks Burning Lamp and Kim.
(BL, Ironside is one of my favorite teachers, too.)
Lee, something else that might be of value: have you ever read The Beautiful Side of Evil” by Johanna Michaelson? My copy is on loan right now so I can’t quote from it, but Johanna Michaelson is a Christian who had gotten involved in the occult and was studying with a demonic healer (there is a name for that but I forget what it is) in Mexico. Long story short, she never did inherit the spirit that possessed her mentor (probably because she got saved somewhere along the line and such possession would not have been possible) and found herself eventually at l’abri where she was ministered to. She was taught to tell the demons that tormented her to, in Jesus’ name, leave her and go where Jesus sends them, which they were required to do. In the end, she has not been subject to demonic torments since that time. There is probably more important information but as I don’t have my book present I can’t go any further than that.
It is a very good story to which you can probably relate.
Another more recent account of demons being forced to flee at the name of Jesus is given by Warren Smith in his 2005 book “The Light that was Dark.” As unbelievers, he and his wife, Joy, were deeply involved in the New Age movement when Joy became the object of oppression from someone she knew (apparently a sorcerer or witch of some sort) astral projecting (or whatever they do). It turns out, what Warren did about it also involved Johanna Michaelson’s book (and how he got a hold of it is a neat story all by itself). I forgot about that. But here is a quote from page 120-121:
“When I finally finished the book [The Beautiful Side of Evil], I put all my notes in my day pack and left the store with a new resolve. We now had an entirely new approach to our problem. It was an approach I didn’t fully understand, but it had worked for Johanna. And though I didn’t know why, I believed her. As wild as her account was, I somehow knew it was true. I was anxious to try her suggestion.
“I didn’t say anything to Joy about my new findings. But the next morning when she became oppressed, I saw my opportunity to apply what I had learned. I asked Joy if we could go out to her mom’s back yard. I told her that I wanted to try dealing with the problem in a different way.
“As we sat in the yard, I could see from Joy’s face that the presence was particularly strong. I spoke to her as gently and reassuringly as I could and told her not to be afraid. What I was going to try was new, and I thought it would help.
“Reading from my notes the exact words that I had taken from Johanna’s book, I firmly addressed the presence. ‘Satan, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I command you to be gone! I forbid your presence here. I claim the protection of the blood of Jesus upon us. Go where Jesus sends you!’
“Whoosh! Joy’s face cleared immediately. The oppression was gone. Joy felt the man’s presence leave instantly-as if he had no choice. We were both amazed and deeply impressed.
“‘What was that?’ Joy asked in wonder.
“‘I’m not sure,’ was all I could say. But it has something to do with Jesus and a victory He won over evil on the cross of Calvary. Satan seems to represent the sum of all evil, and that evil was somehow mysteriously defeated when Christ died on the cross.”
Just to avoid possible confusion, I am not one for using Jesus’ name as an incantation, and I don’t think that is what they were trying to do either. Michaelson goes into detail about the counsel she received at l’abri and there was nothing of that sort involved. The point is, demonic oppression is not something that has to be endured by Christians as Christ has the authority to make them leave us alone. Even if we have been in the occult, He does not call us to remain oppressed as though we have not really been delivered when we repent and leave those practices.
A variation I use on this is, instead of telling the demons to leave myself, I ask the Lord to tell them for me. It seems to produce the same result.
LeMouse, excellent examples in Johanna and Warren. Both trustworthy believers and have helped many through their testimonies. God brings us through things to help others.
What about in John 18:6 – Jesus Himself speaking ….. ????
God heals people because He loves them, not as a way to confirm or deny the truthfulness of the teaching the person is sitting under.
The thief (satan) comes to steal, kill and destroy, not to heal. Jesus didn’t heal because satan volunteered to leave or stop afflicting people.
The Pharisees also said Jesus was healing by the power of satan or beelezbub.
This article is a blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
This blog should be shut down because you’re only making you’re judgement worse.
Matthew 12:22-30
Isn’t it obvious that satan cannot heal? Our Lord spoke in uncertain terms.
Paul Korir
You mis-read scripture, why Paul? Why don’t you go and study to show God that you want to understand what He means? Let me explain.
Matthew 12:22-30; “22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.”
Luke 11:14-26; “And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered. 15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils. 16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven. 17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth. 18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub. 19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. 20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. 21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. 24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”
——————
There is a difference between the way Christ cast out demons and the way the Pharisees and Scribes cast them out.
The scribes and Pharisees used enchantments, which is the devil’s tool.
Mark 2:12; Christ cast out demons, which the people had seen before, but they had never seen demons cast out like Christ cast them out.
Acts 19:13; Some wandering Jews, who were exorcists, attempted to change their methods and cast out demons the way Paul cast them out.
Luke 11:17-20
v17 Christ states that Satan does not cast out his own demons any more than Christ will cast out his own spirit from believers or cast saved people back into being lost.
v18 If Satan casts out his own demons or Christ cast out his own Spirit, that kingdom would not stand.
1. Christ explains in the latter part of verse 18 why he makes this statement.
2. Christ is drawing a straight line concerning who is able to GENUINELY (not counterfeitly) cast out demons.
3. He wants no one to declare that Satan casts out his own demons, because He is the Son of God and that would mean He would be casting out his own Spirit from believers.
v19 The sons of the Jews practiced casting out devils, but they used enchantments and such, not the power of God.
1. Mark 2:8-12; “And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.”
2. The above verse makes it very clear that the method Jesus used to cast out devils and the method the Jews used is completely different.
3. His statement is confirmed by Acts 19:13, which states, “Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.”
4.God will not have to judge the unbelieving Jews. Their own sons will judge them because their sons know whose power they are using, even though they may verbally declare their power comes from God.
v20 – Jesus declares that the casting out of devils, the miracles, wonders and signs, the healings of many and various diseases proves beyond any reasonable doubt of spiritually reasonable men (not Pharisees) that he is indeed the Christ, the son of the living God.
So Can Satan cast out demons?
Luke 11:19; – The Pharisees would claim their children was casting out devils, but they were casting out devils by the power of Satan.
1. Matthew 7:22; Many will say they have done mighty works in the name of Christ, but Christ will say, “I never knew you.”
2. Luke 9:50; There were some that were casting out devils, but they followed not the disciples. Christ said to leave them alone.
3. Mark 2:12; Casting out demons with enchantments.
4. Acts 19:13; Exorcism was prevalent.
Burning Lamp said:
>LeMouse, excellent examples in Johanna and Warren. Both TRUSTWORTHY believers and have helped many through their testimonies. God brings us through things to help others.
I say, BEWARE of Johanna Michaelsen and Warren Smith. they are not attached to ALL TRUTH, but only to SOME TRUTH. Look at their associations with people like Caryl Matrisciana, Michael Gendron, Tom McMahon, Roger Oakland, Ray Yungen… (Wide is the Gate DVD)
They all posture as “di$cerment mini$trie$”. They are NOT trustworthy. They are out there to “make merchandise” of you. They want you to follow them as a trustworthy source of discernment.
Many of these people who have been involved in the occult before, after they came out of it and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, they sadly DID NOT LOVE ALL THE TRUTH, and therefore fell into another deception and now go about deceiving others with a veneer of truth wrapped in deception. Lots of false teachers out there fall into this category.
Paul
At that time BL said that I do believe we didn’t know the truth about Roger Oakland, Warren Smith, etc. We know now… *sniffs*
Yes, Satan knows how to help his people put together a “trustworthy” “testimony”…just look at the associations of the above-mentioned with false (CNP) teacher Tim LaHaye, as well as Hal Lindsay…wolves travel in packs. As you point out Paul, the “christian” market is lucrative! AND we are fool enough to finance and support the very entities who look for our destruction.
Hey Debs, what happened to the edit button? I really “labor” over my responses and like to tweak them!
Yes, Paul, Debs is correct.
I made that statement some time ago. It is AMAZING to see how quickly the scenery changes. More and more people are being exposed as “controlled ops” or bearers of half-truth.
We truly live in perilous times. We must keep the Lord and His Word our focus and always test the spirits. Often times truth only serves as a facade for error.
I don’t want to judge hastily and extend grace just in case someone has been misquoted or misunderstood. But when the facts are in and they have been exposed they should be dropped like a hot potato!
I’m a newby, got linked to this site while reading some of Prof. J Malan’s writings. I have a question and would appreciate your views.
My daughter was with her father in the car a few years ago. Her father used to be very involved with a big and wellknown church. He left there and started his own ministering and serve a handful of people.
Apparently, while driving along, her father said that the Lord told him to stop and speak to a man walking with a cane. He stopped and asked the man if he could pray for him and then asked him how long he has had difficulty walking. The man said that his one leg is shorter than the other and he has been this way all his life.
Then he asked if he could heal him through Jesus Christ. He held the man’s shorter leg. The next moment, my daughter told me, this man’s leg just started growing. The man jumped out of the car and started running and dancing. His daughter was with him and she said that she has never seen her father move like that. My daughter said that she saw this happen, right infront of her. When I asked her how she felt about it, all she could say is that she was “flabbergasted”.
Yet, my other daughter, has an ankle problem due to a sport injury, that needs an operation to repair.
My questions:
1. Why could their father “heal” an unknown man next to the road and not his own child?
2. Is this “healing” from God?
I thank you for your views.
Micheline
The question we need to ask is, what type of church did you father go to, in other words, what doctrine did he believe in?
Second, Did the man with the short leg get saved after he was healed? What’s the point of healing someone and not preaching the Gospel to them? (the Gospel is what SAVES, healing does not save).
Third, why didn’t this man on the side of the road just not pray to Jesus Christ himself for healing?
Debs is correct. This would be like Mother Teresa practiced – serve their physical needs but neglect to address their eternal state. Of course she was an unsaved woman herself as she believed in the false gospel of Rome.
If the healing of the man’s leg got his attention and led to him receiving Christ, that would be one thing, but it does not appear this was the case.
The most important healing is a converted heart.
Satan is a chameleon and a counterfeiter and seeks to deceive by imitating the works of God.
Deborah,
1. Apostolic Prophetic, LW.
2. I don’t know if he got saved. After the “healing” was done, they carried on driving, with my child’s father making as nothing was wrong and “acting” as if this was an every-day, normal, occurence. So from this, I assume that the “healed” man was never seen again and no ongoing preaching/teaching took place at that time. If the man sought God himself afterwards, well…I don’t know.
3. Yes, why didn’t he. Then again to be fair, didn’t he just need that innitial “intervention”. Who knows, God does work in misterious ways!
Yet, I’m still asking the question: If the father of my children was told by God to “heal” this man, why does God not tell him to “heal” his own child.
I’m using the word “heal” very loosely here and I’m sure you have picked up on this. I am not convinced by this “healing”. Yet my child saw this happening. Does God give us sinners the ability to REALY “heal” in this way? Where in the Bible does it say that we will be able to do this in this day and age. I read somewhere on this site that biblically this “revival” type of ministeries, will not happen during the end times (if I understood it correctly). Why then this type of “healing”?
Thank you for your views.
Micheline
The Apostolic and Prophetic is most commonly called New Order of the Latter Rain CULT. The doctrine is false. Does LW stand for LewendeWoord?
Maybe you need to read this: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/06/15/nar-invasion-of-sa-rick-joyner-angus-buchan-danie-slabbert-nevil-norden-apostolic-prophetic-conference-july-2012/
>> Does God give us sinners the ability to REALY “heal” in this way? Where in the Bible does it say that we will be able to do this in this day and age.
I believe that each person has been given the ability to ASK JESUS CHRIST DIRECTLY for healing – no middle man needed.
>> I read somewhere on this site that biblically this “revival” type of ministeries, will not happen during the end times (if I understood it correctly).
You are right, in the end times we will however have an apostasy, a great turning away from Jesus Christ. All these crusades and conferences are nothing but people gathering under a false Christianity.
2 Thessalonians 2:3; Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
1 Timothy 4:1; The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
>> Why then this type of “healing”?
In the end times….Matthew 24:24; “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:5; For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ [Anointed] and will deceive many.
Satan trying to convince you that your fathers doctrine is true? Your daughter saw it happen, and who are you to argue with her, she saw something happen. Satan is smart, he knows how to play the game well. Also you just don’t know who that man was on the side of the road. In this apostolic and prophetic religion, transference of demonic spirits is usually through the laying on of hands. If this man was ‘healed’ and it was Satan who did a counterfeit healing, then this man got more than he bargained for.
Deborah,
Thank you so much for your views. (the “healer” is not my father, it is my previous spouse, sorry if I confused you.)
Any advise on how I ‘solve’ this issue regarding my children who now witnessed this falseness and believing such rubbish? I do not want to create ill feelings between the father and my children as I do believe that God still instructed us to honour our parents. Will prayer be enough?
And yes you are correct about LW. Sorry for the criptic writing, one should be careful of what you put in the public domein.
Regards
Micheline
Sorry my confusion, I didn’t read properly. Sorry 🙂
>> Any advise on how I ‘solve’ this issue regarding my children who now witnessed this falseness and believing such rubbish?
I think you will most definitely have to pray about this Micheline. Only Jesus will be able to provide a solution to this problem. Pray and ask Jesus that your children start to see the truth instead of the lies.
As for being cryptic, it’s impossible on this blog, I figure out everything sooner or later lol ;P
Debs,
Haha, I see nothing gets past you.
Thank you for your advise. Yes, prayer, trust and hope is all I have…and need.
Regards
Another excellent article!
Yes, Satan can heal and I know from personal experience that Satan can heal, if only temporarily.
In 1970 or 1971 I had a bad trip on LSD. It was so bad that I had distortions of reality for about eight years, that kept me gripped in absolute terror and in panic attacks. I had flashes around my eyes for the same amount of time and saw halos around all kinds of objects.
During that time I could not hold down a job and am sure I could not have worked altogether for more than a few weeks during that eight years. I think one job I held–where I was left to myself most of the time–maybe lasted four to six months.
Then a friend of mine introduced me to his cult, otherwise known as Herbert W. Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God. I bought their views of Christianity and from the hour–or probably even the moment–I was baptised in their cult all my flashes, distortions of reality, panic attacks and halucinations left me.
I was totally healed for two years. Then, after backsliding, the terrors, &c., returned with a vengeance. They lasted about another two years and though they’d almost disappear, there was always a remnant of this “illness” that remained.
For years Satan had me confused about this. Had God healed me and did I allow Satan power over me by my backsliding? I could not make up my mind.
Well, the thing was, I would never leave WCG because I knew for certain that I had been healed, though I thought God had perhaps taken the healing away because I had sinned. (WCG believed the Law was incumbent to Christians.) So that “healing” kept me convinced for years that WCG was God’s only true church.
So–back to your point–can Satan heal? Most definitely or certainly in the sense that he can take off what he himself has been the cause of. But you can be sure that when he does “heal” it is to take humanity further away from God, the ultimate Healer!
Deuteronomy 13:1-4 is very interesting. Miraculous signs performed through false prophets are there to test whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul.
Ross
Deuteronomy 13:1-4
13 “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
Now lookie there…interesting indeed.
Thanks for the insight into the Alpha course. So many Christians have tried to get me to go to it but now I am glad I had not bothered going.
It makes sense your observation on how Satan can create the false impression that he can heal.
I have been to many healing meetings by WOF preachers in my young & niave, desparate to get healed from chronic illness younger days. I had noticed there was often very little healing. There were the odd person who did get healed but why so few?
Meanwhile I’d noticed those who said they got some deliverance from some demonic oppression or stronghold on their lives where not delivered for very long. That is when I started think ‘this can’t be from God’ because these people keep coming back over and over again. God heals and delivers prefectly, no return of your original sickness but as for demons if you are an empty house what do you expect? Yeah, I gave up getting prayed for and I certainly was one of those who refused to fall over and resisted being pushed over. I had my husband behind me all the time and he almost lost his temper and wanted to hit one Preacher who violently shoved me to try and make me fall over. I certainly had to question why they had to force me to fall after they prayed for me.
I have walked away from all the False Healers etc.. years ago now. Many years have passed and I have had to just focus on doing my own reading of the Bible and trying to get my own understanding of prayer and asking God for healing. It’s been a long hard but very rewarding journey as I have come to know my Lord and God in such a deeper way.
Still waiting for my FULL healing but along the way I have had many remissions in my health and certainly have been sustained beyond very low medical expectations and diagnosis. I’m supposed to be very sick or dead according to my various medical experts in my chronic illnesses. I suffer but I take little medications and they are all amazed because I haven’t followed the expected decline in my health. God is merciful as He sustains me as I pray for healing and wait for my answers to prayer. I have been challenged this year to “have faith in God” as Jesus once encouraged His disciples to do after they failed to heal a young boy.
Standing in Faith in God as per the Bible and not falling for any of the Word of Faith and other deception in the area of Healing. There is so much I can say about healing and prayer but all I will say is we can know that the God we serve is loving, kind and good and has no evil intentions for us. If we are not healed yet it is not for evil but some future, long term good that we must wait for our healing. Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers, accused wrongly by Potiphars wife and spent years in Pharoh’s prison until finally God had prepared him for what God had planned for him to do. Joseph was able to say to his brothers “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives” (Genesis 50:20). Not everyone gets healed instantly by God, some of us have to learn to wait. If I don’t get healed here on Earth I know for sure I will be made whole and totally healed in Heaven. I have full trust in God’s plan for my life and the timing of his answers to my prayers and in the meantime I rejoice because I know I am sustained as I wait, so I see the hand of God in my life every day & Praise Him for it but continue to pray for healing (in faith).
God Bless
Milly
Dear Milly
Thank you for your wonderful comment and I know exactly what you mean!!
Hi every1. I am so worried and in fear. Confused rather. All that you say I see happening in churches I hace been at. I neva took serious because I only thought only magicians can do all those things. So I watched the videos as well and now i a scared. Last two weeks I changed my mind about this churches and some prophets. So I attended a certain church and went to prayer line. The pastor could not deliver and I was dissapointed. I just thought the demon in me is stubborn. So the pastor gave me a follow up. I wen for a follow up this passed sunday and again the pastor could not deliver me. I watched another people being delivered and I was excited to also receive my deliverance. The pastor touched and i kept on falling time and time again. I started crying because I was scared.I prayed in my heart that if the pastor is really a man of Jesus a real God worshipper, he should deliver me. Instead I saw a dark cloud approaching and I screamed of fear. Then I kept on praying till i saw the light. Pastor deliverd a lot of people but not me. He gave another follow up. So today I was a bit angry at God. I was asking myself why doesnt God want to help me. The I started googling about this prophets and I came across this article. I am greatful that i know this now. I dont need the pastor for God to deliver me. He probably delivered long time ago. But I do not want to lie. My faith, believe, the whole christianity i am confusedabout the whole thing.
Especially Luke 3 verse16 and 17. Wher John talks about the holy spirit and fire. Is fire right or wrong? wher does it belong? Is it not holy? Do you people mean that this pastors are wrong to call the spirit of fire? Are this pastors possessed by the wrong spirit?
Please I need help because this coming sunday I am supposed to go for a follow up prayer and deliverance.
Queen
Has it occurred to you that you are NOT DEMON POSSESSED? Why do you think you are demon possessed?
A Christian can’t be demon possessed! You can be afflicted by demons yes, but not possessed. And to be delivered all you need to do is REPENT of your sin to Jesus (like following false doctrine) and ask Jesus to remove any demonic affliction from your life. It’s THAT simple, you do not need some FALSE pastor laying hands on you (transferring more demonic stuff onto you) trying to deliver you WHEN ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS GO TO JESUS CHRIST DIRECTLY IN PRAYER and repent of your sin – come to Jesus Christ in all earnest, and lay your whole life before him, and list your sins one by one to Him and ask Him to remove any demonic affliction over you. Tell Jesus that you are making a commitment to change your ways and you need the Holy Spirits help in your life, to guide you and convict you when you do wrong, and also teach you the Bible.
Please read this article to explain Luke 3:16-17 it’s very easy to understand when you read everything in context…
In the below article I use Matthew 3:11-12 which is the same as Luke 3:16-17
Fire of The Holy Spirit – Judgment or Anointing?
PLEASE ALSO READ THIS: The Biblical Holy Spirit vs.The False Unholy Spirit of Fire
What about John 18v6? Nobody has responded to David’s question on this verse
MTO, sorry, I’ve just found this part of the site again. You were asking about John 18:6.
It tells us clearly who fell back. It was the armed men, officers and others representing the Sadducee High Priests and the Pharisees. They came to arrest Jesus.
As these are the only people in the Bible who fell backwards it further draws a line under the “slain in the spirit” game as being from God. Please consider that “slaying in the spirit” folk also fall backwards when God’s people always fell forward.
Malcolm Heap (who left the Armstrongite cult and attacks Armstong yet simultaneously holds to many of his erroneous doctines) claims that Paul was “slain in the spirit” on the road to Damascus. Just read Acts 9:3-8 and compare it to these things you see at the Benny Hinn, JesseDuPlantis, &c, theatrical showtimes and you’ll see for yourself what a ludcrous statement Heap made.
I myself have seen one “slaying” that everyone in the charismatic church was hailing as a “SitS” when it turned out that the lady concerned merely fainted. I daresy those who were determined to believe it was a SitS still believe it to have been so.
I have been intimidated twice to fall backwards because each time I didn’t want to embarrass the minster or the prepared catchers.
The first time I stupidly allowed it to happen, I could not convince one lady who saw it that I wasn’t slain in anything–neither flesh, soul, spirit nor alcoholic spirit! She wanted to believe I had been so she believed it in spite of my denial. The second time it happened I lay on the floor and did as I did the first time. That is wondered what I was supposed to do next and wondered when I was supposed to get up. I’m sure others merely do what I did so not to disappoint others.
Interestingly (at the second “slaying”), when the minister gently pushed my wife’s head backwards, she let only her head fall backwards–not taking his bait–and keeping the rest of her body erect. He soon gave up trying on her!
SitS are pretty much like everything else you get at charismatic shows. They are emotionalism whipped up to the point that people can not discern clearly.
You will find a similar thing happens in the pagan relgions. They rely on emotionalism. It opens them to demons and that is why, after the slayings at Rwanda, those who murdered people during the massacres couldn’t remember doing it.
Religious men in India get themselves into an emotional state before they pierce themselves with nails or when they walk barefoot over red hot stones. Admittedly, some don’t but prefer to rely on yogic spirits (demons).
There is not much difference between what happens at some of these charismatic gatherings than what happened to the Germans at Nazi rallies or when the present Middle terrorists go bananas slaying each other: Emotions take over and the demons are in the driving seats of those wound up.
True, he results may be quite different on the outside but inside of folk’s minds there is little difference. And in the long run it can lead to the destruction of one’s soul.
To go along with this stuff is to reject the admonition of James 4:7 which we would do better to heed.
For the “Strange fire” in Leviticus refers to the occult. They melted the gold to figure the golden calf but when Aaron was questioned by Moses he said they put the gold in the fire & out popped the golden calf. Strange fire indeed.
Thank you SO MUCH for this article!!! I have been going through an extremely hard time physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, so I began fasting and praying. Today makes my 7th day in the fast and the Lord has revealed His Truth….THE REAL TRUTH to me! I got all wrapped up in wanting to “feel” better in every way possible so therefore, I went to whoever was willing to pray for me and I bought books that basically places demands on God….calling them Decrees. To make a very long story short, after reading this article and your article about the differences between the Holy Spirit of God and then the unholy spirit….I ended up face down, sobbing and repenting of apostasy. Thank you so much for this Truth!!! I am so disgusted with myself that I turned from Jesus just to feel all better and believing the lies of the enemy. When I think about how much I hurt Jesus…well, it is a lot to take in.
Again, thank you for this Truth. And I know that the Lord brought me to this article this morning for me to know the Truth of what I had done so that I could repent and turn back to Him. I need to let go of this shame that I feel and forgive myself. But I’m sure that I should be in “mourning” over believing false teachers, false prophets, etc. When I think about what I was being spoon fed and the hand that was feeding me, it makes me want to vomit!
God Bless you for what you are doing!
I am hearing of several people I know of going to to these supernatural healing conferences that are taking place all over the world targeting young people mostly. Some of the speakers are Todd White, Mike Bickle, Dan Mohler, Bill Johnson to name a few. Some people that have went tell of strange happenings when they are slain in the spirit and they truly think they are from God and they feel heat all over their body and some faint when being touched by others. I am concerned as that is the kundalini you talk about. A charismatic pastor even attended one of these conferences and says he knows what happened to him was good.
Carey
That charismatic pastor should read the following Scripture,
Dearest Sheila
HALLELUJAH to you my dear sister in Christ. You went through this whole ordeal and Jesus saved you and delivered you in the end. Thank HIM and PRAISE Him.
May God bless you.
Dearest Sheila
HALLELUJAH to you my dear sister in Christ. You went through this whole ordeal and Jesus saved you and delivered you in the end. Thank HIM and PRAISE Him.
May God bless you.
Satan cannot heal. He can only lie, destroy and kill. He can’t create anything. To think so is a sign of ignorance. Neither Jesus nor the Apostle Paul ever said Satan can heal. Neither Jesus nor Paul ever said suffering is blessed either. I suggest people read Christian church history. Then ask God to show you the deeper meaning of the Bible stories. I never heard of a church or anyone “calling down fire” on people. These comments are old. People must have gone to some events I never heard of. I think “Deborah (Discerning the World)” needs to discern the Kingdom of Heaven within her instead of the world.
Homeopathic medicines do actually heal the sick. Is it from God or Satan?
Dear Mary Stewart
Thank you for your lovely comment filled with so much love… Cry/
You said “Satan cannot heal. He can only lie, destroy and kill. He can’t create anything. To think so is a sign of ignorance.”
You wont believe this Mary but this is in the bible…not sure if you have read it. :thumbsup:
(Exodus 7:10-13) 10 And Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. 11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. 12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods. 13 And he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, that he listened not to them; as the LORD had said.
Please explain to me how the magicians in the Egyptian times turned their sticks into real live snakes before Moses and the Pharaoh? Of course Moses took his rod and it turned into a serpent that ate all their snakes. So as we can see the creating that Satan does, even the healing that Satan performs is weak and always counterfeit.
You said “I suggest people read Christian church history…..I never heard of a church or anyone “calling down fire” on people. These comments are old.”
I suggest you pay attention to what’s happening in the churches today, right now, in the present time…then open your eyes to see that the church is in apostasy.
Now the big question…what church do you attended?
Ross wrote:
Very good points
Hi Martin
I never saw this post until now, is this really you?
Talking about Holy Spirit, may be you all would want to visit [url removed]
Majority of us have received the real Holy Spirit. We kneel down, our head bowed down in humility and we start our prayer with ‘in the name of Lord Jesus Christ we pray’, then we keep saying Hallelujah, praise the Lord for asking to receive the Holy Spirit. We end our prayer with Amen. Many of us have received the Holy Spirit, we pray speaking in tongues, is like the sound of living water, like fountain, like waterfall. When we pray in Holy Spirit, we are sober, when we’re filled with the Holy Spirit, we would feel God’s love very much, we can stop praying anytime we want, we don’t lose control. And we don’t fell backwards or forwards. We are sober the whole time. Come and keep the Sabbath and study the bible with us at a [url removed] near you. :hi:
Dear Liz
You said “then we keep saying Hallelujah, praise the Lord for asking to receive the Holy Spirit”
So you work yourself up into a frenzy until you receive a demonic spirit and allows you to speak gibberish.
Tell me where in the bible does is say you have to say Hallelujah over and over until you get the Holy Spirit? Please go find me a verse, I’d love for you to search the scriptures to TEST the SPIRITS (1 John 4:1-6).
Dear Deborah,
1. Saying haleluya is a way we praising God in the midst of long prayer…
2. In our mind we pray for Holy Spirit….But in the process we may repeat haleluya. ..
3. This 2 go together….But doesn’t mean saying haleluya is a way receiving Holy Spirit.
I know the verse in John. What we have received is the real Holy Spirit, not demonic spirit. I know how gibberish is like, Speaking in tongue is not like gibberish, is like the sound of running water like a fountain.
Dear Liz
Please read: Gift of Speaking in Tongues, Prophecy and Healing
And then please read: The Biblical Holy Spirit vs. The False Unholy Spirit of Fire you will see that speaking in tongues is common in many other religions including false christian churches.
Do you have 100% proof that what you are speaking is from God and that you are not blaspheming Him?
The 100% proof is that what I and my brethrens have received is according to the scriptures, Holy Bible. I am not blaspheming my beloved Jesus Christ, my God. I share this so that you all know God do give what He promised to give.
Dear Liz
Proof is not based on experience, proof is based on what the BIBLE SAYS:
I can prove 100% to you that what you are speaking is not from God. Did you read the article: Gift of Speaking in Tongues, Prophecy and Healing that contains 100% proof that the gift of tongues has ceased – because the bible says so.
Dear Deborah,
I say “what I and my brethrens have received is according to the scriptures, Holy Bible.” which mean it is according to what bible say. You cannot just proof me wrong when you have not yet seen or hear how we pray. If you insist right away that what I have received is not from God without doing a real research first by coming to my church and witnessing with your own eyes… that is just not fair… though many false churches and false teachers outside, we still have to keep looking for his true church and receive the true Holy spirit, however I see no point to go on further on this with you. We are all for the love for God, seeking for the truth. I wish you well. God bless.
Dear Liz
No you are not seeking the truth otherwise you would READ what the BIBLE SAYS. Are you scared to read that article which will prove to you WITH SCRIPTURE that you are wrong? Let me bring the scripture to you then seeing that something demonic is holding you back for knowing the truth.
1 Corinthians 13:8 “Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].”
Tongues has ceased and has been replaced with LOVE i.e, preaching the gospel TRUTH.
I do not need to visit your church, I visit my Bible, God’s Word to us, and God tells you and me that tongues and prophecy (foretelling the future) has CEASED.
Dear Deborah,
I have finish reading my bible and I repeatedly read my bible again and again. And I prayed that God help me understand his words.
1 Corinthians 13:8 mention that prophecy and tongues will pass away is because when the end day comes (Jesus Christ second coming) , we will be with Christ therefore the prophecy, tongues and knowledge will vanish away.
Romans 8:9 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Acts 2:33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now SEE and HEAR.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
There are many false teachers out there and many evil spirit pretending to be holy spirit. But we cannot give up in seeking for the Lord and receive his true Holy Spirit because like what is told in Ephesians 4:30 Holy Spirit is the seal on us for the day of redemption. May God help us. Good bye.
Hi Liz,
How does one receive the Holy Spirit?
Dear Liz
You read your bible so much yet you don’t understand it.
1 Corinthians 13:8 is not talking about the return of Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 13:8-11; “8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
“that which is perfect” what does this mean?
G5046 τέλειος teleios (te’-lei-os) adj.
complete.
{(neuter as noun, with G3588) completeness; in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.}
[from G5056]
What needed to be completed Liz before tongues and prophecy (fortelling of the future) was no longer needed? Well for one thing we know that Jesus is not a “THAT”, He is a “HE” so we know this verse is not talking about Jesus Christ. So what could it be talking about. It’s the bible Liz, the bible needed to be completed, and as we can see from above during the time is was being penned by the hands of the Apostles it was in “various applications of labor”, the bible was “growing” as the Apostles received revelation from the Holy Spirit, and wrote pages, which turned into books which then later turned into a fully completed bible.
The bible = Truth = The Word of God
Jesus Christ = is Perfect, He did come, He finished His work on the cross and He is the Truth and the Word of God
The imperfect, the incomplete = speaking in tongues, prophecy (new knowledge / foretelling the future) was done away with and replaced by LOVE.
You quoted Acts 2:33 “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.” Yes Liz, this was for the time when the Apostles walked the earth, the Apostles where the witnesses to Jesus Christ’s ministry on earth, and Jesus Christ gave each Apostle the Godly power to perform miraculous signs and wonders to establish the church after which these signs would be done away with, and they would be replaced by LOVE (preaching the gospel)
If you really think that “that which is perfect” is Jesus Christ, then that means we have to wait for Jesus Christ to return before we can “…love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:31)
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
What does grieving mean Liz? Please explain to me why you quoted this verse.
Have you ever thought you are grieving the Holy Spirit because you do not know what you are saying and you could very well be blaspheming God?
Do you believe that the evidence of salvation is speaking in tongues?
Do you believe Catholics to be Christian?
Seeing that I can’t go to your church to hear you speak in tongues, can you give us a link to a video where people at your church are speaking in tongues. I am interested to know what “the sound of running water like a fountain” in tongues sounds like.
You keep saying True church. Jesus Christ’s TRUE church called THE BRIDE OF CHRIST can not be housed in a building, people who are truly born again are individuals all over the world, they do not belong to one specific church building with the title of TRUE in it, that’s just rediculous.
Tell me Liz, True Jesus Church was established in 1917, are you willing to say that no one was saved before 1917 because this TRUE church didn’t exit before that?
Dear Liz
Because you view True Jesus Church to be the only TRUE church of Jesus Christ, I would have to say that this church is a cult. I found this information on TJC here: https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/comments/4ya2zu/read_this_before_committing_into_true_jesus/
You state that Jesus never did a failed healing or a partial healing, but always got it right the first time, every time. How do you explain Mark 8:22-25, where Jesus had to heal the blind man twice because the blind man didn’t see everything right the first time?
Dear Kate
Jesus never makes a mistake!
How about you do some bible study yourself. You tell me why Jesus did what He did. I’ll give you a hint; Jesus is using this specific miracle as a parable.
It wasn’t a mistake, or a failed healing or a partial healing, so what happened there? If you don’t know after going to diligently seek the truth yourself, say so, and I will explain to you exactly what happened here.
Mark 8:11-29 (KJV)
11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. 12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. 13 And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side. 14 Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread, neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf. 15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand? 22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. 26 And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town. 27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am? 28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets. 29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
I have highlighted important verses in the above passage for you 🙂
This miracle only appears in Mark, and is the only miracle that was not instantaneous; it happened gradually. Sight is a common metaphor in Scripture for understanding. The disciples should have seen the deaf man as a picture of themselves, unable to comprehend what Jesus said. This blind man also represented them in their inability to understand what Jesus showed them in verses 11-21. Jesus could and did make them (the disciples) whole, just as He healed this physically limited man. John
Oops, I mis-wrote and my editing time ran out before I could fix it. That last sentence should read “Jesus could, and did, make the man whole.”
Thank you John! :thumbsup:
This is the ONLY miracle that happened this way. No one can replicate it or use this example and say “well, Jesus also did a partial healing….therefore that explains away all the faith healers in the world today who lay hands on people and then tell you you will gradually get better…it takes time, just have faith.”
If you fall for that one, then you are like the disciples in this passage. And Jesus would well say to you “How is it that ye do not understand?”
Hmmmm me thinks I must make that editing time limit more? Wadda you say John? Yip? :nod:
The editing time is probably ok, I just got distracted by something. By the time I turned my attention back it had timed-out.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English – John 18:6 “And when Yeshua said to them, “I AM THE LIVING GOD”, they went BACKWARD and fell to the ground.” “The words “went backward” come from the Greek word aperchomai. In this case, the words depict the soldiers and temple police staggering and stumbling backward, as if some force has hit them and is pushing them backward. The word “fell” is the Greek word pipto, which means to fall. It was used often to depict a person who fell so hard, it appeared that he fell dead or fell like a corpse. The Jesus we serve is powerful! There is no force strong enough to resist His power. No sickness, financial turmoil, relational problems, political force — absolutely nothing has enough power to resist the supernatural power of Jesus Christ! When the Great “I AM” opens His mouth and speaks, every power that attempts to defy Him or His Word is pushed backward and shaken until it staggers, stumbles, and falls to the ground!” Referring to your quote, “When you see people falling backwards, know immediately that a false ‘holy spirit’ is at work.” This statement then is wrong. Jesus said,”And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.” Be very careful that you do not continue to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. “But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven . . .” You also quote, “. . . as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease. . .” You say, “Tongues has ceased and has been replaced with LOVE” No – clearly this scripture (as quoted) does NOT say tongues has ceased – yet. Does NOT. These gifts will pass away at the end of the age when we no longer need them! As to the ‘love’ that you said supposedly replaces tongues . . . It may be there – however, I don’t think it’s coming through in your comments as you’d hoped – sadly.
Carol.
You should make very sure that it is not you who is blaspheming the Holy Spirit by attributing to Him that is clearly not of Him.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Co 11:13-15)