At Boshoff from CRC Church shows us how Pharisees went about ‘Honoring’ God

At BoshoffThe recent invitation to debate sent to Mr. At Boshoff by Dion Knoesen was as a result of the below notice sent out by CRC, to their members and undersigned by Mr. Boshoff.

This notice was dated 16 November 2010 with the Subject: “Honour God”

We wish to state the reason for the intended debate with Mr. Boshoff.  We hope to either persuade Mr. Boshoff to give heed to proper rendering of the Scriptures for his own benefit and also to benefit those who are under his shepherding.

1Ti 4:16    Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

On the CRC website it s mentioned that Mr. Boshoff studied at “A Bible College” for three years fulltime. Unfortunately no name is given to this Bible College.

In the last paragraph on this webpage the it says the following:

“He has been described as focussed, passionate and fervent in his hunger for the Word of God and explosive in his dynamic teaching of it. His positively dynamic and practical messages are equaled in their refreshing relevancy to their bold authenticity and doctrinal accuracy. “

When looking exegetically into his notice “Honour God” we have to question his “authenticity and doctrinal accuracy.”

For informative purposes the quoted Scriptures by Mr. Boshoff is discussed below in RED

As Paul wrote:

Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;


Email sent out from CRC Church to it’s congregation:

 width=From: CRC Christian Church
Sent: 16 November 2010 01:00 PM

Honour God

“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19

The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God.

In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God.

Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give.

In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success.

Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law.

Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21

We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.

This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.

We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.

They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.

If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance[at]crc.org.za

The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-xxx xxxx.

Be Blessed,

At Boshoff


A Critique on how to “Honor God” written by At Boshoff – Critique notes in red

“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:   It is utterly disappointing to notice that Eccl. 10:19 is cited and interpreted in the way At Boshoff has done so in his notice to the congregation at CRC.

When reading what King Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes the basic understanding and proper rendering of the Scripture quoted is in fact quite the opposite, as indicated here by Mr. Boshoff.

The passage in context from the first verse (In fact the first chapter of Ecclesiastes) has to do with what the foolish do and the evils resulting from their actions in this world, which also includes verse 10.

Solomon’s message is one of vanity to all that are under the sun, which includes “Money is the answer to all things” What Solomon actually means in writing this is that man’s trust in money which according to man answers all things, is vanity. Their trust and security should be in God and not in money.

It is vanity of fools who rely on their money for all things instead of God.

Psa 62:8  Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

Psa 62:10  Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.

Psa 62:11  God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Mar 10:24  And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

1Ti 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

1Ti 6:19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life

Why do so many pastors not put their faith in God but rather exploit the people, after all they are always accusing those who do not have money as being without faith – yet when they need the money they rely on the people instead of their faith??

The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.]

The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Where is this revelation in the Bible, that our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God??

The revelation I find is that our love for the Lord Jesus, is to keep His commandments not the love of filthy lucre. Our love is manifested in our obedience to Him, our trust in Him alone not in mammon and riches.

There are only two important books and that is the Bible and having your name written in the Book of Life.]

In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Ouch!!! First of all it was not Israel who “tampered with the gold and silver” but one man named Achan the son of Camri who had stolen some of the spoils of looted booty of Jericho. (This also had nothing to do with his own money, silver or gold or any of his personal belongings which is referred to here Mr. Boshoff in quoting Joshua 7 for gaining money from New Testament congregants.)

Yes, Israel as a corporate entity was punished as result of the theft by Achan, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the personal wealth individuals were given by God, which were then somehow to the interpretation of this part of Scripture withheld from God.

Firstly this was in disobedience to God, because God placed a ban on personal gain from the looted goods.

Secondly theft was the cause of the punishment – taking things not given to you by God.

Thirdly it was the covetousness of Achan that was addressed in the punishment. Covetousness is what God warns us against throughout the Scriptures.

A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.

To be under the shepherding of someone who does not understand context and doctrine or does understand context and twists it out of context, is not promoted by Scripture:

1Ti 4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.]

Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Some more doctrines lacking regarding the tithe very applicable to the Old Testament. Using this one verse for the purpose of tithing is not sufficient and there were many tithing’s applicable not just one. To understand this tithe there were basically 4 types of tithing in the Old Testament ONLY

a) The tithe to the Levites. Deut.14: 27.

The Levites were the “government” of Israel and due to them not having a share in the land allocated to the rest of the tribes, those allocated land were to use of their produce to give to the Levites.

b) The tithe of the Levites to the Zadokites. Neh.10: 38.

Now this is where Malachi is used to place unnecessary burdens on believers today.

First of all, tithings were purely laws given in the Torah or Old Testament. So commanding and condemning people to tithe today by quoting Malachi 10, is basically going back to the Torah or the Law, putting congregants back under the law.

Secondly the Scriptures used below to state that Jesus endorses tithing are totally out of context with regard to tithing and God’s Word in fact it refers to this as works by the Pharisees to justify themselves, something God loathes. In Fact God says woe to them that tithe! – will explain when we discuss these passages.

Thirdly when Malachi 3:10 is read and understood in context it refers to the tithe in a) above, the tithe in Deut 14:27 which was received from the tribes and given to the Levites. The Levites in turn were to skim off a tithe from this tithe (Neh10:38) to give to the priests attending to temple duties. So it was the Levites who were robbing God not the people.

It is interesting when reading the “Works Of Josephus” the Sadducees were the rich of the day who were using the tithes to enrich themselves. Josephus admits to this as he himself was a Sadducee.

Historically it is proven that the Sadducees were extremely rich due to the financial contributions by ordinary people who were forced to pay tribute.

There is no new thing under the son. Today’s Sadducees and Pharisees apply the same rule. The flock enriches them as result of their own rendering and contortions of Scripture.

The clergy were robbing God of tithes not the people, hence the rebuke to them in Malachi 10.

Have any of the Malachi 10 promoters ever read the following to any of their congregations?

Mic 3:10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.

Mic 3:11  The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.

Mic 3:12  Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

The third type of tithe:

c) The tithe toward the annual Holy Days. Deut. 14: 22 – 26.

3 Times a year the Israelites were to attend Holy Feasts at Jerusalem and for this they needed to set aside a tithe of their harvests etc. If they were too far from Jerusalem they could sell the targeted tithed articles and turn it into money. This they would spend upon themselves and the Levites once they arrive in Jerusalem.

d) The tithe to the less fortunate. Deut.14: 28 – 29.

This is also a tithe to obviously assist the needy in the Old Testament.

Although a tithe in the New Testament is never mentioned in this regard there are many Scriptures which clearly say that the needy ought to be cared for.

When one searches for the word “Tithe” in the New Testament there are  two references one in Matt. 23:23 and the other in Luke 11:42 which notably is quoted by Mr. Boshoff and will be discussed.]

In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Who is man that he is able to stand in the way of God’s purpose? Is God dependant on man?

Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

It is agreeable that one’s actions open you to success or failure, but to use Acts 5 as yardstick for failure and success is totally out of context.

I know of many people struggling financially who humbly adores God and has extreme credence in the Lord Jesus, but who realize that their own actions caused their calamity. Those being poor and suffering financially in this life without rejecting the Lord Jesus who are willing to endure to the end will be first in the Kingdom.

Although there are certain quotations by the MHCC I do not fully agree with the MHCC renders the following understanding with regard to Ananias and Sapphira which I could not have worded better:

The sin of Ananias and Sapphira was, that they were ambitious of being thought eminent disciples, when they were not true disciples. Hypocrites may deny themselves, may forego their worldly advantage in one instance, with a prospect of finding their account in something else. They were covetous of the wealth of the world, and distrustful of God and his providence. They thought they might serve both God and mammon. They thought to deceive the apostles. The Spirit of God in Peter discerned the principle of unbelief reigning in the heart of Ananias. But whatever Satan might suggest, he could not have filled the heart of Ananias with this wickedness had he not been consenting. The falsehood was an attempt to deceive the Spirit of truth, who so manifestly spoke and acted by the apostles. The crime of Ananias was not his retaining part of the price of the land; he might have kept it all, had he pleased; but his endeavouring to impose upon the apostles with an awful lie, from a desire to make a vain show, joined with covetousness. But if we think to put a cheat upon God, we shall put a fatal cheat upon our own souls. How sad to see those relations who should quicken one another to that which is good, hardening one another in that which is evil! And this punishment was in reality mercy to vast numbers. It would cause strict self-examination, prayer, and dread of hypocrisy, covetousness, and vain-glory, and it should still do so. It would prevent the increase of false professors. Let us learn hence how hateful falsehood is to the God of truth, and not only shun a direct lie, but all advantages from the use of doubtful expressions, and double meaning in our speech.]

Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Is Mr. Boshoff rightfully dividing the Word here?

To understand Matthew 23:23 effectively one needs to read from verse 1!

These were the Words of the Lord Jesus Himself. The Lord Jesus was warning against the Pharisees and rebuked them for putting credence or weight to their tithes. The Lord Jesus says in Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Lord Jesus most certainly does not say that tithing is the most basic thing in this Scripture. In fact He says woe to those that tithe and ignore the important things that God wants. The Lord Jesus in fact says that it is NOT the most basic thing. He says the “weightier” matters are more basic than the tithe.

Luke 11:42 Again out of context and basically the same rebuke goes out to the Pharisees who promoted and relied on tithing as the basic thing at the time of the Temple in Jerusalem.

I do not find: “Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing” What I do find is another rebuke to the Pharisees and Scribes who felt very secure in basic tithing: Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What I have found in CRC when I used to go there was that they were promoting security in tithing, but the more important and weightier matters such as keeping the Lords commandments in our love for Him, I personally never heard in any sermon by Mr. Boshoff.

Is this not precisely why the Lord Jesus in His Word rebukes the Pharisees?

In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 the focus is more on the “weightier” matters than the tithe.

A very repetitive part of Scripture used by Mr. Boshoff is Hebrews 7

Gen: 14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the highest God.

Gen: 14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Gen: 14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand.  And he gave him tithes of all.

This is to “prove” that tithing was established before the time of Moses, the Torah or law and that tithes have to be given to the priest. To find out what the Melchizedek tithe meant one has to not only read this passage, but also read on to verses 22 & 23.

From verse 18 – 20 it is clear that this was not Abraham’s belongings which were tithed, but rather the booty or loot he had gathered from conquering the enemy.

Gen:14:22: And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Gen: 14:23: That I will not take from a thread even to a shoe latchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Although he gave away 10% of the booty, he stated that he did not even want any of it, because it was not his.

It is also interesting to note that this was a ONCE OFF event, which never took place again.

Ninety percent and more of Scripture quoted for the purposes of pleading for tithes are taken out of context today. God says let few be teachers, because those teachers teaching the flock will be held accountable for what they teach.

A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.

James:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.]

Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Reading Mal 10 from verse 1 rather suggests that the audience addressed by God were the priests as already discussed. The “storehouse” is definitely not the New Testament church. The New Testament church is the bride of Christ and not a building built with brick and mortar.]

We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.

[Note:  The Lord Jesus calls for heed to doctrine rather than finances and I do hope that Mr. Boshoff would rather be obedient to the Lord in the weightier matters.]

This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.

[Note:  Figures do not impress God. One such an example is: Exo 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The quote Mr. Boshoff uses in Matthew 23 was discussed already and to conclude, using this verse as a basis for endorsing tithing is basically in support of what the Pharisees promoted – That Mr. Boshoff is teaching here and to the congregation is absolutely the same what the Pharisees were doing.

What is important however and of grave concern, are the proselytes made by CRC. This is also found in Matthew 23 the chapter in which the verse occurs that Mr. Boshoff uses to preach the diametric opposite to what the Lord Jesus says in this chapter: Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:16  Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?]

We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.

[Note:  I suppose it is not worth mentioning all those pastors and lay persons who have left CRC and would like to see Mr. Boshoff repent of his ways.]

They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.

If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance@crc.org.za

The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going
to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-525 2883.

[Note:  It is agreeable that feeding under privileged Children is a very good work, yet the concern remains what these poor children are being fed spiritually when such doctrine as discussed here is being preached.

Hitler once said that if the hearts of the children are won, the next generation will be won.

It is also fact the “Church” of Rome has built a multitude of schools and hospitals and proclaims ex-Cathedra that winning the minds of children before age 7 will ensure that they will be won permanently for the Mother “Church”.  I see the same happening at CRC so feeding children is an outward appearance coaxing them into a greater deception of being taught wrong doctrine

Remember what James wrote; if the correct faith is dead the works mean nothing.

It is the correct doctrine that will ensure the correct faith – this is why the works may be more detrimental to the children in the longer term.]

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Sick of it wrote:

Romans 3, 23 – yes, all have sinned, fall short, and are FREELY justified by His grace. Cain’t buy it, cain’t earn it. But, man, if you don’t give thusly, then you deserve your poor financial circumstances! Right?

No! Wrong!

So, you give so that you may receive. Have you never read what God says?

I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. (Acts 20:35).

I suggest you make a big banner of these words and paste it on one of the walls in your room. Wouldn’t that be wonderful? The first thing you will see when you wake up in the mornings is “It is more blessed to give than to receive.”

When Simon wanted to receive the Holy Spirit by giving money, Peter said to him:

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (Acts 8:20)

Sick of it

Tom, I think you should read my post again. I was being sarcastic….

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Sick of it

My apologies if I misunderstood you. Perhaps you can repeat the part where you were sarcastic. I would appreciate that. Thanks.

Sick of it

Sure, Tom. I was responding, on 23 Feb at 4:58, not to you but to the guy with the hexagonal face and green background (sorry! haven’t worked out how to type his “name”.) He/she (hereafter referred to as he) insinuated in his post, by quoting Romans 3, that I don’t understand the “guilt-and-condemnation” which I had quipped about in my previous post of 22 Feb, 11:55. I responded that I do indeed understand that all men “fall short”, as the verse says, but that we are also “justified FREELY” by God’s grace. I then followed up by saying that unlike the grace of God, which no man can earn or buy, it seems, according to pastors of the sort mentioned many times above, that man can indeed buy God’s financial favours and if man does not give financially in the manner which said pastors prescribe – ie. TO THE CHURCH, where most goes to salaries and overheads – then man should expect, and indeed, deserves, his poor financial circumstances.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Tom

Sick of it was being sarcastic, he was commenting to גבריאל who didn’t realise he was being sarcastic as well. I think there is a bit of confusion going on here.

גבריאל – Sick of it is actually on your side
Sick of it – גבריאל is actually on your side

Please hug :)

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Sick of it,

Once again, my apologies for misunderstanding you.

Sick of it

No problem. Hug!

E.Govender

WOW! Been at CRC for 16 Years in Durban. Left 4 months ago. Guess Why?

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

We can only guess. Maybe you would like to give us your testimony why you left?

E. Govender

Wow! Been in CRC in Durban for almost 16 Years and I’ve seen everything. Money, money, money! Dare you question, how the money is spent. CRC Claim they have 8000 members. Go and visit! I gave Millions into the Church and when I took a break from the mess, I was cut off. Never received a call as to where I am. Love for your money and Not for you and your family. People worship the man and not God. Check out the staff members response on FB!! “We thank you ps glen” & allison, we thank you ps glen & allison. Never at any given time, “we thank you Jesus”
Ballito is about to close down. Owing 4 months rental, yet vehicle upgrades. ps glen, has not been there in 5 months.
Please, they need help!!!

E. Govender

Hi Tom. As a committed Christian and knowing the word, it is clear, we need to live a blessed life. Through Gods grace, I have been blessed beyond means. My giving exploded and was never shy of it. The church took on a new challenge in buying a new building. No taught process was given and ps Glenn was wanting no advice. Long story short, 3 years later, we don’t own the building and Not allowed to ask questions. Ballito CRC, cannot pay rentals or their bills. Ps Glenn Not been there in 5 months. Hundreds of people left. As business men, we decided to help and ask to look into financials as to see how we can help. We were immediately cut off. Then the scales of our eyes were opened and for the last 5 years, almost every Sunday we were spoken on our giving. Staff have been abused and 10% deducted compulsory from their Salaries. If you were a business man, the pastor was after you. If you gave big, you were special. When your giving was less, you were Not invited to special meetings. I was past part of the special guys and always questioned bringing smaller business guys that were not big givers into these meetings. I was told there were not good enough. Love for the people has been lacking, but rather love for their money. They need to put add first and Not the wealthy businessmen.

E.Govender

They need to put God First and Not the Wealthy Businessman. Everyone needs to be a part of building Gods Kingdom. The Bible speaks of the woman that gave her Mite, this was little in Mans eyes, but she gave her best.
I’m upset and frustrated at the way people have been treated. I have grown Supernaturally at CRC Durban, but cannot stand to see how the wheels are falling off. Pray for them, they need change.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear E.Govender

I am sorry to hear you were conned by CRC and gave away millions of Rands. You say “Pray for them, they need change.” Yes a total change of doctrine that is.

Tell me something, do you think the pastors of this church could preached the truth and nothing but the truth and steal money at the same time? Or do you think they preached a doctrine that was false therefore they could get away with swindling everyone?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

E.Govender

You said, “As a committed Christian and knowing the word, it is clear, we need to live a blessed life.”

Just a quick question…what do you mean by blessed? physically blessed (nice house, nice car etc) or spiritually blessed (in other words, you are born again and your relationship with Jesus is just wonderful and the holy spirit illuminates you to understand scripture, and when you sin you come to Jesus and repent? etc)

E. Govender

Deborah, I never said the CRC Durban conned me. We had a Great start as a Church for the better of 12 years. Things have changed. We made bad decisions in our Finances, as a result, 3 years later, we have nothing to show for and are currently renting. No water from municipality, as they removed the water meter. Finances are preached frequently. Not a single person knows what happens to funds raised frequently, except we have a crises.
My issue is simple. Be open to the people. Why is the Financials Not shown to the Financial board or its leaders.
Blessed life is a combination of both, Spiritual & Financial.
We are preached more on a Blessed life with having money!!

Deborah (Discerning the World)

E. Govender

You said: “Blessed life is a combination of both, Spiritual & Financial. We are preached more on a Blessed life with having money!!”

Please find scripture to back up your answer. Are you saying if you are poor (financially) you are not saved?

גבריאל

Sister Deborah, E. Govender has been part of CRC for 16 years, remember to extend some grace.
The Holy Spirit will teach him in time.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

גבריאל

you said, “The Holy Spirit will teach him in time.”

That’s all very well, but is E Govender wanting to know the truth.

I don’t think E Govender needs to be treated with kit gloves he says he knows the Word very well – that is a very important question I asked and it needs to be answered.

Anonymous

Good day
I recently joined CRC after being hurt by one of the other “franchise” churches you mentioned in the thread.

Although I agree with most of your comments regarding church and At, my kids love the worship and the homecell group we joined is really supportive and I can’t fault them on any Biblical principals. Our lives did turn back towards Jesus as our savior and we pray to get our message from the Holy Spirit and to be able to distinguish between false and true gospel.

However I do not want to expose any of my family to false messages and doctrine.

Any ideas on a sound group to join in Pretoria?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Anonymous

You said, “my kids love the worship and the homecell group we joined is really supportive and I can’t fault them on any Biblical principals.”

When Simon Magus the Sorcerer wanted to buy the Holy Spirit from the disciples Acts 8:18 it was because he wanted to use it to ‘entertain’ his audience. Loving worship at a church that preaches false teaching should never be used as the litmus test to keep your kids there. Your kids can praise and worship at home in a safe environment were you know no false teaching can creep in and harm your children spiritually.

When you say you can’t find fault with them on biblical principles what do you mean exactly? Let me ask so I can understand this better, do they preach what CRC preaches? Or are they a separate home cell from CRC?

Now here is a question for you so I can understand what you are saying, you said, “and we pray to get our message from the Holy Spirit” now the question is actually a 3 part question; where do you think the Holy Spirit is, do you pray to Him and how does He answer you?

As for finding a place hmmmmm….please read this: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2015/05/25/a-very-lonely-path/

Sick of it

There is no reason why small groups of sincere Christians cannot gather in each other’s homes to enjoy fellowship. The first thing a pastor like At Boshoff will try to use against you when you want to remove yourself from what you know is unbiblical nonsense, is that you are “neglecting/despising the fellowship of the saints”. Show me chapter and verse for how many saints must be in a room for it to be considered a fellowship. Where 2 or 3 are gathered…

If a group feels incompetent, for want of a better word, in the teaching and learning of the Bible, there are many, many trustworthy resources that can be purchased/downloaded etc. for a whole group to enjoy and benefit from. The days of a one-man band like CRC are over for Christians who consider themselves to have matured in the faith. Anonymous, I feel your pain. What I’d like to offer is that you don’t do the kids a favour by letting them fall into the trap of believing that Jesus is synonymous with razzmatazz. I think I would liken that kind of Christianity to heroin addiction, quite frankly. It usually does not end well.

Have the courage to do what you know in your spirit is right. In this new day of megachurch, megamoney, mega-ego, all done in the name of Christ, it has come to mean a whole new thing to say “I am not ashamed of the Gospel.” I will LEAVE what makes a mockery of the original Gospel, of which I am not ashamed, no matter how much I’m persecuted and no matter how alone I may feel at first. There are many, many others out there who are doing the same.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Thanks Sick of it,

That was a really great comment.

And yes you are right, fellowshipping in small groups, even 2 or 3 is considered fellowship. The problem is to find genuine Christians to fellowship with – I recommend that Anonymous prays and ask Jesus Christ to bring genuine Christians into their life to fellowship with.

Sick of it

I also want to say, Deborah, that another reason for Christians to gather in modest groups for fellowship, is that in this way money does not become an issue. All the money given from the sincere hearts of these Christians can go directly to where it is supposed to go – to help the needy and honour God in their eyes. There are a million zillion ways in which smaller Christian fellowship groups can make an impact on their societies by supporting charity AS CHRISTIANS, in the NAME of Christ, and have MUCH more of an effect on the world than megachurches are having they way they do things now! Obviously! If I give an amount of money to God in the church in my home, ALL of it goes to support a needy soul/souls. If I give the same amount to CRC, half of it (even?) reaches said souls, because the other half has to pay the bond, utilities and salaries!!! That’s why we don’t tithe to you, At Boshoff! We are obeying the Word of God to help those in need. To ACTUALLY help them. We don’t think giving a pair of shoes here and there to a child and blowing it up as an advertising campaign for CRC, is what real giving is. So, rant and rave from the pulpit about it as much as you like – we bring our gifts to a storehouse that respects the mandate of God. And yours doesn’t.

Sick of it

We bring our gifts to a “storehouse” that respects the mandate of God. And yours doesn’t, At Boshoff, and few do. And so we use the discernment which we are commanded to have, the diligence we are commanded to have in searching these things out, to ask ourselves how we may better serve that mandate.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Sick of it

Sorry your comments landed in the SPAM section, I’ve moved them out :)

Sick of it

Cool ;-)

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Sick of it

After being hacked I’ve upgraded our security to the point that it even locks Tom and I out of the site lol. It seems I will have to check the SPAM section more regularly for comments that somehow land up there.

Ash

I have read a few posts on this website and I am one who has attempted to seek truth from the Lord on many matters and He has made so much clear to me in my walk with Him. Much of what the site owner refutes is in line with many of the truths that the Lord has revealed to me personally.

However, I only know in part and do not have all knowledge which is why faith in Jesus Christ (the TRUTH) is far more weightier to me than trying to attain all knowledge because knowledge puffs up and Love builds up. My search for truth has brought me closer to the heart of my Father which has caused an explosion of Love in me toward Him and others for Love is the fulfillment of the Law (Rom 13:10).

1 Cor 13:2 says: “2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing”

While reading through this site I could not help but think about the many new believers who have just experienced the Perfect Love of God through their salvation, and the many young believers who may be looking to take that extra step in learning about God and all they did was find this website that is created outside of the spirit of Love.

Every comment that I read that was against the website owners sphere of doctrinal beliefs was met with a reply that was clearly defensive and built on a need to be right without ever giving consideration to where the commenter is in their walk with God. I have no doubt that many infants left this website with a heavy burden as though they did something wrong or heretical.

One thing I have learnt in my walk with the Lord is that He is sovereign in ALL things –even the false doctrines– as it is often the false that causes so much confusion and turmoil that leads one to seek the truth, and on this path the True Christ is found.

I’m sure the motive of this website was pure, but I have to say I am saddened by the manner and tone of many of the replies to comments as it clearly shows a lack of love and understanding, as well as a clear need to be right which is rooted in pride.

The Apostle Paul understood how to operate in Love even when the motives of some people who were preaching were misaligned. We see this here:

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

All that matters is for the Good News of Jesus Christ to spread. If men do it with wrong motives, or if they are in error who cares the Bible says in Rom 14:10:

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

My personal belief is that if one has a need to refute error iT can be done without pointing a finger at any individual. All you need do is write about the false doctrine and then refute it and let people judge the doctrine rather than the person(s) who deliver it.

It may be of value for the site owners to read many of their replies with God’s eyes of Love if they are indeed standing for the truth. The truth will set you free and that truth is Jesus Christ who is God and God is LOVE (1 John 4:8)

I pray this comment is received in the Spirit that it was sent.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Ash

All comments are said in love, if you do not see it like that then that is your perception of us and just as a matter of interest I think you should take your own advice and not call us out for supposedly not speaking in love ok? You should have just written a letter about love and left it at that. Righty then…lets go and look and see what the Word of God says on this matter.

Throughout the Bible, we consistently see both Jesus Christ and the Apostles calling out false teachers who claimed to be followers of Jesus. Jesus rebukes false teachers in Matthew 23 and Luke 11. The Bible is filled with other examples of people calling out false teachers. In the book of 2 Timothy, as an example, the Apostle Paul names a number of false teachers by name:

2 Timothy 1:15- Phygellus & Hermogenes
2 Timothy 2:17 – Philetus & Hymenaues
2 Timothy 3:8 – Jannes & Jambres
1 Timothy 1: 18-20 Hymenaeus and Alexander
2 Timothy 4:10 – Demas
2 Timothy 4:14 – Alexander the coppersmith
3 John 9-11 – Diotrephes
Galaltions 2:11-14 – Paul named Peter publicly
Jude 1:1 – Exposed the doctrine of Balaam
Even in the Old Testament they exposed false prophets:
Numbers 22-25 – Balaam
2 Samuel 12:7 – the man
2 Chronicles 18 – Hanani named king Jehoshaphat

And then in Acts 8:1-25 we have Simon Peter calling out Simon Magus the Sorcerer, exposing him to all for the devil worshiper that he was.

And thennnnn we have (Matt. 12:34) were “Jesus said to the religious Pharisees, “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh” ”

Would you say the same to Jesus Christ and the Apostles that you said to us, let’s see. “Look Jesus and your Apostles… “My personal belief is that if one has a need to refute error iT can be done without pointing a finger at any individual. All you need do is write about the false doctrine and then refute it and let people judge the doctrine rather than the person(s) who deliver it.” Because quite frankly you guys are chasing away newly born again Christians that just can’t handle the truth of what the bible says, sooooo please keep the name calling out of the equation and I am sure those babes in Christ wont go running a mile away from Christ and throw their salvation down the drain after they hear you guys speak and name names of false teachers…ok? (DTW notes: not that you can lose your salvation if you were genuinely saved in the first place) I am so glad you understand where I am coming from and listen to me and not the Word of God… Great I am so happy now, NOW I REALLY FEEL THE LOVE, before that all I felt was hatred.”

Ephesians 5:11 “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.”

Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brothers, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Titus 1:13 “Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith “

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hi Ash.

I notice that you quoted Paul quite extensively but sadly out of context. What do you say about Paul’s words of pure love in Galatians 1:6 – 9?

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:6-9)

Would you have said something so intensely full of love and compassion if you had the chance? Or would you rather have used Jesus words when He said.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Mat 23:33)

Or perhaps you would rather have loved to use brother John the Baptist’s words who once said:

Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (Mat 3:5-7)

No, no, no John, you shouldn’t have said such a nasty loveless thing. How dare you send people away who out of love and compassion wanted to be baptized by you? Shame on you. So, let’s rewrite the Bible and omit those nasty things you said because it sends the wrong message to false teachers and apostles like the Pharisees of old.

Or Ash, perhaps you would rather have preferred to use the words of brother Jude, the brother of Jesus, when he ever so gently, lovingly and endearingly said the following.

Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. (Jud 1:11-13)

You wrote:

One thing I have learnt in my walk with the Lord is that He is sovereign in ALL things –even the false doctrines – as it is often the false that causes so much confusion and turmoil that leads one to seek the truth, and on this path the True Christ is found.

So Ash, what I would like to suggest to you, is that you follow in the footsteps of Satan who is a murderer and the father of all lies (John 8:44) and preach false doctrine and lies so that people may find the truth in Jesus who is the Truth. That way, God will one day say to you, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant: Your lies, deceit, cunning and craftiness have brought millions of souls to my Son. Please accept my humble thanks and here’s sommer a reward and a crown for your brilliant efforts.”

Bully for you, Ash. Keep up the good work. Preach lies and deceit in season and out of season so that sinners may find the truth. And by the way, Ash, don’t let this disturb you because it was spoken in pure love for you and your soul.

And by the way, Ash, those who preached the Gospel out of envy, preached the unadulterated word of God and not a false gospel like At Boshoff and the many false teachers surrounding us these last days. So, what does that say, Ash It says: It is better to preach the Gospel out of envy than preaching a false gospel like At Boshoff.

And finally, you wrote:

One thing I have learnt in my walk with the Lord is that He is sovereign in ALL things –even the false doctrines…

Are you saying that God deliberately decreed false teaching to be preached and even encourages false teachers to do so because He is sovereign? Do you really think God would indict Himself with his own warning in 2 John?

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 Jn 1:9-11)

Wow! How’s that for pure love expressed by the Person who is the essence of pure love?

I would like to encourage you to repent of your false love, Ash!

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