At Boshoff from CRC Church shows us how Pharisees went about ‘Honoring’ God

At BoshoffThe recent invitation to debate sent to Mr. At Boshoff by Dion Knoesen was as a result of the below notice sent out by CRC, to their members and undersigned by Mr. Boshoff.

This notice was dated 16 November 2010 with the Subject: “Honour God”

We wish to state the reason for the intended debate with Mr. Boshoff.  We hope to either persuade Mr. Boshoff to give heed to proper rendering of the Scriptures for his own benefit and also to benefit those who are under his shepherding.

1Ti 4:16    Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

On the CRC website it s mentioned that Mr. Boshoff studied at “A Bible College” for three years fulltime. Unfortunately no name is given to this Bible College.

In the last paragraph on this webpage the it says the following:

“He has been described as focussed, passionate and fervent in his hunger for the Word of God and explosive in his dynamic teaching of it. His positively dynamic and practical messages are equaled in their refreshing relevancy to their bold authenticity and doctrinal accuracy. “

When looking exegetically into his notice “Honour God” we have to question his “authenticity and doctrinal accuracy.”

For informative purposes the quoted Scriptures by Mr. Boshoff is discussed below in RED

As Paul wrote:

Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;


Email sent out from CRC Church to it’s congregation:

 width=From: CRC Christian Church
Sent: 16 November 2010 01:00 PM

Honour God

“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19

The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God.

In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God.

Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give.

In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success.

Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law.

Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21

We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.

This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.

We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.

They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.

If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance[at]crc.org.za

The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-xxx xxxx.

Be Blessed,

At Boshoff


A Critique on how to “Honor God” written by At Boshoff – Critique notes in red

“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:   It is utterly disappointing to notice that Eccl. 10:19 is cited and interpreted in the way At Boshoff has done so in his notice to the congregation at CRC.

When reading what King Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes the basic understanding and proper rendering of the Scripture quoted is in fact quite the opposite, as indicated here by Mr. Boshoff.

The passage in context from the first verse (In fact the first chapter of Ecclesiastes) has to do with what the foolish do and the evils resulting from their actions in this world, which also includes verse 10.

Solomon’s message is one of vanity to all that are under the sun, which includes “Money is the answer to all things” What Solomon actually means in writing this is that man’s trust in money which according to man answers all things, is vanity. Their trust and security should be in God and not in money.

It is vanity of fools who rely on their money for all things instead of God.

Psa 62:8  Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

Psa 62:10  Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.

Psa 62:11  God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Mar 10:24  And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

1Ti 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

1Ti 6:19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life

Why do so many pastors not put their faith in God but rather exploit the people, after all they are always accusing those who do not have money as being without faith – yet when they need the money they rely on the people instead of their faith??

The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.]

The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Where is this revelation in the Bible, that our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God??

The revelation I find is that our love for the Lord Jesus, is to keep His commandments not the love of filthy lucre. Our love is manifested in our obedience to Him, our trust in Him alone not in mammon and riches.

There are only two important books and that is the Bible and having your name written in the Book of Life.]

In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Ouch!!! First of all it was not Israel who “tampered with the gold and silver” but one man named Achan the son of Camri who had stolen some of the spoils of looted booty of Jericho. (This also had nothing to do with his own money, silver or gold or any of his personal belongings which is referred to here Mr. Boshoff in quoting Joshua 7 for gaining money from New Testament congregants.)

Yes, Israel as a corporate entity was punished as result of the theft by Achan, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the personal wealth individuals were given by God, which were then somehow to the interpretation of this part of Scripture withheld from God.

Firstly this was in disobedience to God, because God placed a ban on personal gain from the looted goods.

Secondly theft was the cause of the punishment – taking things not given to you by God.

Thirdly it was the covetousness of Achan that was addressed in the punishment. Covetousness is what God warns us against throughout the Scriptures.

A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.

To be under the shepherding of someone who does not understand context and doctrine or does understand context and twists it out of context, is not promoted by Scripture:

1Ti 4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.]

Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Some more doctrines lacking regarding the tithe very applicable to the Old Testament. Using this one verse for the purpose of tithing is not sufficient and there were many tithing’s applicable not just one. To understand this tithe there were basically 4 types of tithing in the Old Testament ONLY

a) The tithe to the Levites. Deut.14: 27.

The Levites were the “government” of Israel and due to them not having a share in the land allocated to the rest of the tribes, those allocated land were to use of their produce to give to the Levites.

b) The tithe of the Levites to the Zadokites. Neh.10: 38.

Now this is where Malachi is used to place unnecessary burdens on believers today.

First of all, tithings were purely laws given in the Torah or Old Testament. So commanding and condemning people to tithe today by quoting Malachi 10, is basically going back to the Torah or the Law, putting congregants back under the law.

Secondly the Scriptures used below to state that Jesus endorses tithing are totally out of context with regard to tithing and God’s Word in fact it refers to this as works by the Pharisees to justify themselves, something God loathes. In Fact God says woe to them that tithe! – will explain when we discuss these passages.

Thirdly when Malachi 3:10 is read and understood in context it refers to the tithe in a) above, the tithe in Deut 14:27 which was received from the tribes and given to the Levites. The Levites in turn were to skim off a tithe from this tithe (Neh10:38) to give to the priests attending to temple duties. So it was the Levites who were robbing God not the people.

It is interesting when reading the “Works Of Josephus” the Sadducees were the rich of the day who were using the tithes to enrich themselves. Josephus admits to this as he himself was a Sadducee.

Historically it is proven that the Sadducees were extremely rich due to the financial contributions by ordinary people who were forced to pay tribute.

There is no new thing under the son. Today’s Sadducees and Pharisees apply the same rule. The flock enriches them as result of their own rendering and contortions of Scripture.

The clergy were robbing God of tithes not the people, hence the rebuke to them in Malachi 10.

Have any of the Malachi 10 promoters ever read the following to any of their congregations?

Mic 3:10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.

Mic 3:11  The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.

Mic 3:12  Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

The third type of tithe:

c) The tithe toward the annual Holy Days. Deut. 14: 22 – 26.

3 Times a year the Israelites were to attend Holy Feasts at Jerusalem and for this they needed to set aside a tithe of their harvests etc. If they were too far from Jerusalem they could sell the targeted tithed articles and turn it into money. This they would spend upon themselves and the Levites once they arrive in Jerusalem.

d) The tithe to the less fortunate. Deut.14: 28 – 29.

This is also a tithe to obviously assist the needy in the Old Testament.

Although a tithe in the New Testament is never mentioned in this regard there are many Scriptures which clearly say that the needy ought to be cared for.

When one searches for the word “Tithe” in the New Testament there are  two references one in Matt. 23:23 and the other in Luke 11:42 which notably is quoted by Mr. Boshoff and will be discussed.]

In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Who is man that he is able to stand in the way of God’s purpose? Is God dependant on man?

Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

It is agreeable that one’s actions open you to success or failure, but to use Acts 5 as yardstick for failure and success is totally out of context.

I know of many people struggling financially who humbly adores God and has extreme credence in the Lord Jesus, but who realize that their own actions caused their calamity. Those being poor and suffering financially in this life without rejecting the Lord Jesus who are willing to endure to the end will be first in the Kingdom.

Although there are certain quotations by the MHCC I do not fully agree with the MHCC renders the following understanding with regard to Ananias and Sapphira which I could not have worded better:

The sin of Ananias and Sapphira was, that they were ambitious of being thought eminent disciples, when they were not true disciples. Hypocrites may deny themselves, may forego their worldly advantage in one instance, with a prospect of finding their account in something else. They were covetous of the wealth of the world, and distrustful of God and his providence. They thought they might serve both God and mammon. They thought to deceive the apostles. The Spirit of God in Peter discerned the principle of unbelief reigning in the heart of Ananias. But whatever Satan might suggest, he could not have filled the heart of Ananias with this wickedness had he not been consenting. The falsehood was an attempt to deceive the Spirit of truth, who so manifestly spoke and acted by the apostles. The crime of Ananias was not his retaining part of the price of the land; he might have kept it all, had he pleased; but his endeavouring to impose upon the apostles with an awful lie, from a desire to make a vain show, joined with covetousness. But if we think to put a cheat upon God, we shall put a fatal cheat upon our own souls. How sad to see those relations who should quicken one another to that which is good, hardening one another in that which is evil! And this punishment was in reality mercy to vast numbers. It would cause strict self-examination, prayer, and dread of hypocrisy, covetousness, and vain-glory, and it should still do so. It would prevent the increase of false professors. Let us learn hence how hateful falsehood is to the God of truth, and not only shun a direct lie, but all advantages from the use of doubtful expressions, and double meaning in our speech.]

Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Is Mr. Boshoff rightfully dividing the Word here?

To understand Matthew 23:23 effectively one needs to read from verse 1!

These were the Words of the Lord Jesus Himself. The Lord Jesus was warning against the Pharisees and rebuked them for putting credence or weight to their tithes. The Lord Jesus says in Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Lord Jesus most certainly does not say that tithing is the most basic thing in this Scripture. In fact He says woe to those that tithe and ignore the important things that God wants. The Lord Jesus in fact says that it is NOT the most basic thing. He says the “weightier” matters are more basic than the tithe.

Luke 11:42 Again out of context and basically the same rebuke goes out to the Pharisees who promoted and relied on tithing as the basic thing at the time of the Temple in Jerusalem.

I do not find: “Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing” What I do find is another rebuke to the Pharisees and Scribes who felt very secure in basic tithing: Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What I have found in CRC when I used to go there was that they were promoting security in tithing, but the more important and weightier matters such as keeping the Lords commandments in our love for Him, I personally never heard in any sermon by Mr. Boshoff.

Is this not precisely why the Lord Jesus in His Word rebukes the Pharisees?

In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 the focus is more on the “weightier” matters than the tithe.

A very repetitive part of Scripture used by Mr. Boshoff is Hebrews 7

Gen: 14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the highest God.

Gen: 14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Gen: 14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand.  And he gave him tithes of all.

This is to “prove” that tithing was established before the time of Moses, the Torah or law and that tithes have to be given to the priest. To find out what the Melchizedek tithe meant one has to not only read this passage, but also read on to verses 22 & 23.

From verse 18 – 20 it is clear that this was not Abraham’s belongings which were tithed, but rather the booty or loot he had gathered from conquering the enemy.

Gen:14:22: And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Gen: 14:23: That I will not take from a thread even to a shoe latchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Although he gave away 10% of the booty, he stated that he did not even want any of it, because it was not his.

It is also interesting to note that this was a ONCE OFF event, which never took place again.

Ninety percent and more of Scripture quoted for the purposes of pleading for tithes are taken out of context today. God says let few be teachers, because those teachers teaching the flock will be held accountable for what they teach.

A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.

James:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.]

Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Reading Mal 10 from verse 1 rather suggests that the audience addressed by God were the priests as already discussed. The “storehouse” is definitely not the New Testament church. The New Testament church is the bride of Christ and not a building built with brick and mortar.]

We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.

[Note:  The Lord Jesus calls for heed to doctrine rather than finances and I do hope that Mr. Boshoff would rather be obedient to the Lord in the weightier matters.]

This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.

[Note:  Figures do not impress God. One such an example is: Exo 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The quote Mr. Boshoff uses in Matthew 23 was discussed already and to conclude, using this verse as a basis for endorsing tithing is basically in support of what the Pharisees promoted – That Mr. Boshoff is teaching here and to the congregation is absolutely the same what the Pharisees were doing.

What is important however and of grave concern, are the proselytes made by CRC. This is also found in Matthew 23 the chapter in which the verse occurs that Mr. Boshoff uses to preach the diametric opposite to what the Lord Jesus says in this chapter: Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:16  Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?]

We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.

[Note:  I suppose it is not worth mentioning all those pastors and lay persons who have left CRC and would like to see Mr. Boshoff repent of his ways.]

They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.

If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance@crc.org.za

The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going
to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-525 2883.

[Note:  It is agreeable that feeding under privileged Children is a very good work, yet the concern remains what these poor children are being fed spiritually when such doctrine as discussed here is being preached.

Hitler once said that if the hearts of the children are won, the next generation will be won.

It is also fact the “Church” of Rome has built a multitude of schools and hospitals and proclaims ex-Cathedra that winning the minds of children before age 7 will ensure that they will be won permanently for the Mother “Church”.  I see the same happening at CRC so feeding children is an outward appearance coaxing them into a greater deception of being taught wrong doctrine

Remember what James wrote; if the correct faith is dead the works mean nothing.

It is the correct doctrine that will ensure the correct faith – this is why the works may be more detrimental to the children in the longer term.]

Please share:
guest
Name or Username
Privacy Policy

Editing Comments: After commenting you have 15 minutes to EDIT your comment. Click the gear icon at the bottom right corner of the comment box, then click EDIT.

Previous Comments: Please read all previous comment pages if there are any. Thank you.

588 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Gideon

@Glads

I find this very disturbing.
————————————————————————————————————
Quote

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9New King James Version (NKJV

“It is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict, God’s job to judge and my job to love.”
― Billy Graham.

“No one has it all figured out, especially not the people who are acting like they do and judging you because of it. Pretending to be something you aren’t because you’re trying to please a bunch of judgmental hypocrites and shitheads is not the way to be happy. Living the life you want to live is. It really is that simple.”
― Tucker Max, Assholes Finish First

“Who are you to judge the life I live?
I know I’m not perfect
-and I don’t live to be-
but before you start pointing fingers…
make sure you hands are clean!”
― Bob Marley.

Unquote
————————————————————————————————————
What happened in your brain shortly before you posted this bit? Billy Graham I kind of understand. Tucker Max and Bob Marley? All these demented people quoted alongside a Bible verse makes no sense.

It is clear that in your mind the Word Of God is equal to the rubbish these people spew.

You need help.

JJ

No person with true spiritual discernment will stay connected to these organizations. They might be attracted by the glamour and get involved and defend their doctrines like we have seen, but when the Truth comes they will not stay. A wonderful training ground for true believers of who our Saviour truly is, and is not! (Matt 7: 22-23)

If it’s more about my gifts, and less about His fruit that becomes evident in my life, something’s wrong.(Gal 5)

If you have to defend a leader’s arrogance the warning lights should come on!

If you have doubts about your leadership, seek God’s face about it!

Glads

LoL. Now I see what is exactly happening hear – you people are actually spinning words that people are writing out of proposition.
But I guess it must be your ignorance.
So the main problem hears is basically about “money”.
Oh ok I now see?
If this blog wasn’t posted we wouldn’t had this “debate”.
We have nothing to hide at CRC, you guys can sent independent auditors to come and check our books.
WE PAYS CASH FOR 7500seater auditoriums.

Hi hi people, I thought the pastor was teaching the people to indulge them-selfs in all sort of promiscuous lifestyle,lawlessness and evil things while he was only teaching about tithing.

Now I am posing a question.
What makes Pastor At Boshoff evil?

Deborah you must still state your case, I am going nowhere on this site!
Delete me like you did with Zele.
I will sign up with a new account even if I have to take you on alone.

Glads

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matt 7:22-23.

Sister JJ that same word that you just quoted there is for you.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Glads

>> What makes Pastor At Boshoff evil?

If you READ THE ARTICLE Glads and ALL THE COMMENTS you will see (if you open your eyes) what is exactly wrong with At Boshoff, CRC and yourself. You follow At like a God, At’s Jesus is a radical one. No where in the bible is Jesus Christ explained to be radical, who is this radical money hungry Jesus you follow?

>> WE PAYS CASH FOR 7500seater auditoriums.

We make no money Glads and we have you on this site stalking us; must I charge you to read my comments? How about this for an example let’s now act like we are a CRC church, I will charge you R500 for each comment I write, think of it as ‘tithing’, because quite frankly I am very busy with other things and you are taking up my time. Will you open your eyes? Or are you one that is blinded to the truth already and your eye’s will never be opened because you have just gone past the point of no return? 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11

The Apostle Paul never paid thousands of rands for 7500 seater auditoriums, in fact he said the most you ever take from someone is a loaf of bread. Paul made tents for a living and he paid his own way. At Boshoff is a con-artist and you are being conned.

    Acts 20:34
    You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions.

    1 Corinthians 4:12
    We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;

    1 Corinthians 9:14
    In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

    1 Corinthians 9:15
    But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.

    1 Corinthians 9:18
    What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.

Now understand this, Paul is not saying preachers of the gospel are not allowed to making a living and supply the needs for the church and it’s congregation. The problem is Glads it’s HOW MUCH THEY MAKE that distinguishes them from being true men of God and of course the rubbish they preach that goes hand in hand. How many cars does At have? Would you like to inform us? Please let us know what models he drives as well…

    1 Thessalonians 2:9
    Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you.

At places a huge burden on people – that they must pay tithes otherwise God is going to think they robbed Him. What a terrible doctrine. Family’s go hungry because you gotta pay your tithes to At, and then on top of that you must seed, and give offerings and first offerings and more offerings so that God can what? Bless you? I don’t pay God to look after me Glads I am born again and God loves me and blesses me because I am His child; Sin is what causes a riff between you and God, and following false teaching like CRC is a sin. Forgiveness of sin and changing you ways and obeying God is what makes you in right standing with God. Does that mean you will never suffer hardship? That you must pay God to have a permanently wonderful life? NEVER. Look at the disciples, how they lived and what happened to them in the end, they were tortured and murdered. Could they pay tithes when in jail for years at a time? No, so what did God think of them then? Did he abandon them? NEVER.

>> LoL. Now I see what is exactly happening hear – you people are actually spinning words that people are writing out of proposition.

No Gideon quoted you.

I see you quoted Bob Marley, tell me do you not know he was a Rastafarian worshipping another god?? Or is quoting ungodly people to make a biblical point something you do regularly?

You said:
“Who are you to judge the life I live?
I know I’m not perfect
-and I don’t live to be-
but before you start pointing fingers…
make sure you hands are clean!”
― Bob Marley.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Glads

You said:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matt 7:22-23.

Yes like At Boshoff and everyone at CRC who is not born again.

JJ

Glads
Your church runs a 3 year CLT Bible school course. I want to encourage you to go and do it!
The truth will set you free. You need your own revelation, not someone else’s opinion…

Deborah (Discerning the World)

JJ

Hmmmm, not sure that is a good idea, because that is where they really indoctrinate you into what THEY (CRC) believe, not biblical truth. It’s the same with Rhema Bible school, everyone that comes out of that place is worse off in what they believe than before they started.

Glads

Indoctrinate!
Lol. You have a way with words brother Deborah.
You guys are still not stating your case.
Sister JJ I have my own revelation my sis.

Let’s do this, why don’t you invite me to your Church, or better yet gave me your Churches web page/address.
I might swing by, not as a critic, but go and learn from from you.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Glads’

I am stating my case. This website states our case. Read it if you care too, I wont force you.

Secondly, I am not a brother and JJ is not a sister.

>> I have my own revelation my sis.

I have no doubt about that. It appears you do have your OWN revelation and not that of the Holy Spirit

Everything you need to know is on this website and in the Word of God.

>> Let’s do this, why don’t you invite me to your Church, or better yet gave me your Churches web page/address.

In the bible Christians would fellowship in each others home. Glads to be part of the body of Christ means you are born again, not a MEMBER on a piece of paper at a building with an address.

If you paid attend to what גבריאל said, they said that God is calling believers OUT OF false churches.

גבריאל

“The only true cause of division in CRC is that some people attending, are truly saved and the Holy Spirit is guiding them out. The Holy Spirit is from God, and you won’t be able to stop Him.”

The bible says:

    Revelation 18:4
    Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

    Jeremiah 51:6
    “Flee from Babylon! Run for your lives! Do not be destroyed because of her sins. It is time for the LORD’s vengeance; he will repay her what she deserves.

The HER/SHE that is being refereed to is the Roman Catholic church (Babylonianism) and all it’s splinter cells from Word of Faith, Latter Rain, Pentecostalism, Calvinism, Charismaticism, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Methodism, etc etc etc etc etc.

You have not answered my question regarding At’s cars that he drives. Let me ask another question, how big is his house and how much did it cost? Maybe you can answer that one.

Here is another question, do you think the Catholic church is Christian?

גבריאל

@Glads

CRC’s national and internationally – How can it not be God.

The church of satan is both national and international – most certainly not from God.

You if you don’t understand anything, go to your own spiritual father and ask for Godly council.

Theology is easy:

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” – Jesus, John 10:27

“But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” – Jesus, Luke 11:28

And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.” – Jesus, Matthew 23:9

Reading this in obedience to Christ, “spiritual father” should not even be in your vocabulary (if you are saved).

When you judge someone, your hearth isn’t pure.

“The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.” – 1 Corinthians 2:15

“For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”” – 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

Could you be bear the thought that you are responsible for deceiving a lot of people

Would you rather be part of CRC for a few years, than to be with God for eternity? Could you bear the thought that CRC and At Boshoff is responsible for deceiving some 5000 people, including yourself?

In the case like David and Saul – when Saul didn’t want to harkened to the voice of God, God replace him with King David.

If you read the history of David and Saul, you’ll notice that the replacement didn’t occur overnight. I personally find it rather odd that you liken At Boshoff to Saul. Shocking actually, when you consider that there has never been any consensus outside CRC (most likely inside also) that At Boshoff has ever been “chosen” by God or by the “christian community”.

At Boshoff is nothing more than a satanic con man, that will be held accountable for his actions, in this life and/or the next.

I dare you in The Lord to throw that stone and see if we care

I dare you in the Lord Jesus Christ to leave no stone unturned, and see if you still feel the same about CRC.

Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality. Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.” – 1 Timothy 5:19-22

Marthina

Tom
Siende nou dat bogenoemde kommentaar na kalvinisme weer verwys… Wil jy nie asb. vir ons ‘n artikel skryf waar die kalvinisme in die ngk uitgewys word en dit teenoor die Skrif neerlê? Ek praat nou spesifiek oor die kategismes ensovoorts… Of is daar artikel reeds daaroor. Hoor graag van julle…

Prov 21

Quick question

Did anyone confirm that the e mail in question was actually sent?

Jeremy

discussion and debate are necessary, but must always be in a proper spirit
regards

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Jeremy,

Thank you for your comment. Yes, indeed discussion and debate must always be in a proper spirit – the Spirit of Truth.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Prov 21

>> Did anyone confirm that the e mail in question was actually sent?

Yes it was, why must we lie about something like that? But for interest sake lets say it was never sent to him, his inbox was full and he never received it. This article has been up on this website waiting for his comment for years now, and many CRC followers have come to this site and fought with us tooth and nail. I am pretty sure he knows this article is here and I am pretty sure he won’t comment either – at least 1 diligent CRC follower should/would have told him about this article. That is why the persons in question who wrote this article never received a reply back because he has no intention of answering the questions in his article.

Maybe you can tell him again?

Rachel

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Prov 21

>> Did anyone confirm that the e mail in question was actually sent?

Yes it was, why must we lie about something like that? But for interest sake lets say it was never sent to him, his inbox was full and he never received it. This article has been up on this website waiting for his comment for years now, and many CRC followers have come to this site and fought with us tooth and nail. I am pretty sure he knows this article is here and I am pretty sure he won’t comment either – at least 1 diligent CRC follower should/would have told him about this article. That is why the persons in question who wrote this article never received a reply back because he has no intention of answering the questions in his article.

Maybe you can tell him again?

As you all say one should search for the truth. I was merely confirming the authenticity of the email so as not to react on heresay. I have no means nor the desire to inform “him” of anything.

For my own benefit and in no way condoning the contortions of scriptures and doctrine I would like to ask a few questions if I may?

1. Do you thus believe that God does not want Christians to be financially prosperous with the sole purpose of being able to bless others?

2. Being sound on doctrine, do you support the celebration of Christmas?

3. What are your views on ensuring (if you were a pastor), that your own flock is cared for in times of need?

Thank you.

Rachel

I was referring to the email he sent out to his congregation.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Rachel

>> I have no means nor the desire to inform “him” of anything.

You don’t desire to contact him, we don’t intend to contact him again, yay we are even.

Quest 1. Do you thus believe that God does not want Christians to be financially prosperous with the sole purpose of being able to bless others?

Explain to me how being financially wealthy while taking from the poor through placing people under bondage and preaching a FALSE GOSPEL benefits anyone and is a blessing to anyone?

Quest 2: 2. Being sound on doctrine, do you support the celebration of Christmas?

What has Christmas got to do with this article? Never the less, Christmas is a pagan holiday. If you find out it’s pagan after years of celebrating it and realise it’s actually the birth of the Sun God and not Jesus Christ why would you in your right mind, in your conscience want to celebrate Christmas?

Quest 3: What are your views on ensuring (if you were a pastor), that your own flock is cared for in times of need?

Please read the article again, it has already been explained. Tell me something, does AT actually look after his flock with tithed money when they need financial assistance? This is what Ray McCauley does when his flock needs help, TRUE STORY: A member of his congregation approached him after many many years tithing at his church and was destitute, he lost his business and his family had no food. Ray didn’t know who this member was as he has sooooo many flock that he fleeces tithing from. So he did him a huge favour he got his staff to contact Pick n Pay and PnP gave him old, past the sell by date boxes of Pronutro to feed him and his family for a little while. So tell me where are the tithes going at Rhema church?

Rachel

You guys should read questions. Not answer from your level of perception.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Rachel

I pray that you open your eyes.

Sick of it

Rachel:

If I may:

Questions number 1 and 3 are related and refer here:

How on earth do you explain the pauper status of many of the early followers of Christ, the meagre circumstances of the apostles and their cheeriness about it?? (Paul: “In every circumstance BE CONTENT.”) At CRC you’re taught to never be content. Unless you’re loaded and throwing money at the church, sum’ing wrong. Christianity changed the world long, long before the advent of the megachurch with its false doctrine of “we can only change things with lots of money.” So, yes, it is quite possible to bless and minister to others without all the lights, camera, action. Because, be honest, Rachel, that is where MOST of the money goes. Not to “the others” – to the lights, camera, action.

As to what a pastor should do to care for a needy flock…mmm… maybe he could take Jesus’ advice? “Sell all you have and give it to the poor, then come, follow me.” Yes, I’m being facetious. I don’t think that needs to be taken literally. But if the flock is needy, as YOU suggested, and Jesus was standing in the building, what do you think He’d say? Perhaps there should be no overseas trips for staff this year? Perhaps no increases? Maybe “company” vehicles should be downgraded, or expensive sound systems replaced with less expensive ones? Maybe we don’t invite visiting speakers this year, so we don’t have to give them million rand offerings? Do you think those might be some of His suggestions?

Ain’t gonna happen, though, right? Right!

גבריאל

Hey Rachel,
From what I can gather, you’re not a member of CRC.

I’ll answer your questions from my perspective, since that’s the only one I can speak for.

1. Do you thus believe that God does not want Christians to be financially prosperous with the sole purpose of being able to bless others?

I believe that the only reason God will bless Christians financially, is so that they can bless others.

2. Being sound on doctrine, do you support the celebration of Christmas?

I don’t believe celebrating Jesus’ birth on the 24th of December, or any other customary day, is wrong for a Christian, nor do I believe that it is required. I won’t, however, support the celebration of materialism on any day.

3. What are your views on ensuring (if you were a pastor), that your own flock is cared for in times of need?

In a community of true Christians, it wouldn’t be the responsibility of a pastor to take on the needs of suffering flock by himself. It would be taken up as the responsibility of the entire congregation, and everyone will help in every way they can.

¹³For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness ¹⁴your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. ¹⁵As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.” – 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

I hope these two parables will guide you in obtaining more wisdom:

¹³Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” ¹⁴But he said to him, “Man, who made me a judge or arbitrator over you?” ¹⁵And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” ¹⁶And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully, ¹⁷and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ ¹⁸And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. ¹⁹And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’ ²⁰But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ ²¹So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.” – Luke 12:13-21

²⁵And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” ²⁶He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” ²⁷And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” ²⁸And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

²⁹But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” ³⁰Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. ³¹Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. ³²So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. ³³But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. ³⁴He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. ³⁵And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ ³⁶Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” ³⁷He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.” – Luke 10:25-37

Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ – Jesus, Matthew 9:13a

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hey Rachel,
From what I can gather, you’re not a member of CRC.

I’ll answer your questions from my perspective, since that’s the only one I can speak for.

1. Do you thus believe that God does not want Christians to be financially prosperous with the sole purpose of being able to bless others?

I believe that the only reason God will bless Christians financially, is so that they can bless others.

In the WOF movement, it is not just about prosperity for the purpose of being able to bless others. It is about getting rich. That’s why they say that if you sow a single seed, for instance $100, you will receive a tenfold reward or return of $1000. Therefore, their motive is not to help others prosper but to get more back than what they had given. That’s called covetousness.

But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (1 Ti 6:9-10)

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Heb 13:5)

Your quote of Matthew 9:13a is out of place. The gifts (if you want to call it so) of the WOF movement are not sacrifices. People who offer sacrifices of mercy do not expect to receive a reward now here on earth because they know their reward is in heaven, not here. I remember seeing a video of Benny Hinn talking about wanting his treasure now, he didn’t want to hear about the “streets of Gold” or the treasures in heaven. He was quite angry, “I want it NOW!” As though he deserves any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVKGCdE1tRc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kceHkcG-4uA

Sick of it

Someone commented:

“In a community of true Christians, it wouldn’t be the responsibility of a pastor to take on the needs of suffering flock by himself. It would be taken up as the responsibility of the entire congregation, and everyone will help in every way they can.”

This is AFTER the congregation’s been fleeced to give to the ministry, right, with the guilt-and-condemnation speech that accompanies that?

גבריאל

Sick of it, I do hope for your sake, that by “guilt-and-condemnation speech” you’re not referring to the prologue of the Gospel (Romans 3:23).

The following might help explain the nature of whom I consider to be true Christians:

³¹“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. ³²Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. ³⁴Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. ³⁵For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ³⁶I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ ³⁷Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? ³⁸And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? ³⁹And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ ⁴⁰And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

⁴¹“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴²For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, ⁴³I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ ⁴⁴Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ ⁴⁵Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ ⁴⁶And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” – Jesus, Matthew 25:31-46

Tom, I believe my quote of Matthew 9:13a, is well in place: The priests and Levites, were all about sacrifices, the Samaritan showed mercy; Jesus approved of the Samaritan’s actions (mercy), not the priests and Levites (sacrifices).

Rachel commented:

You guys should read questions. Not answer from your level of perception.

“A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.” – Proverbs 18:2

You should consider Rachel’s rebuke, and consider that maybe, just maybe, everyone who poses a question on this article aren’t prosperity-seeking, word-of-faith believing, mammon-worshiping idolaters.

“Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” – Romans 12:21

It appears that you’ve come to assume the worst in everyone, but yourselves.

Concerning giving to a ministry:

I would go so far as to claim that: God doesn’t need your money, gifts, sacrifices or tithes.

If the congregation you’re part of makes a show (advertisement) of feeding schemes, like CRC, take no part in it, remove yourself from the wicked, they’ve already received their reward.

If the congregation you belong to, uses most, if not all, of its’ finances to care for the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. then by all means, tithe.

Again, GOD DOESN’T NEED YOUR MONEY, but, in the right hands (even your own) money can be used to care for the needy, and doing so is in accordance with the nature of a true Christian.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

גבריאל wrote:

Tom, I believe my quote of Matthew 9:13a, is well in place: The priests and Levites, were all about sacrifices, the Samaritan showed mercy; Jesus approved of the Samaritan’s actions (mercy), not the priests and Levites (sacrifices).

Is the Word of Faith crowd Levites or Samaritans? To show mercy and expect something tenfold or hundredfold in return is not mercy. It’s greed. I think you misunderstood me.

Sick of it

I think you know exactly what I meant by guilt-and-condemnation speech, because it was made abundantly clear from the context in which I used it. So that kind of misdirection on your part is silly, but I’m sure that’s clear to most.

Romans 3, 23 – yes, all have sinned, fall short, and are FREELY justified by His grace. Cain’t buy it, cain’t earn it. But, man, if you don’t give thusly, then you deserve your poor financial circumstances! Right?

גבריאל

In context of the Word of Faith crowd, giving an offering and expecting a tenfold or hundredfold return, is a form of sacrifice; sadly, a sacrifice to a false god (one of their own making).

Luke 18:30 & Mark 10:30 is applicable in the present time, in obtaining fellowship with other adopted children of God, and being welcomed into their houses. This is evident in the fulfillment of this promise to believers (Acts 2:42-7, Acts 4:32-5)

The parable of the sower that mentions seed that “produces a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times”, is explained by Jesus in Matthew 13, therefore no further interpretation is required or allowed.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

גבריאל

In context of the Word of Faith crowd, giving an offering and expecting a tenfold or hundredfold return, is a form of sacrifice;

Rubbish. It is not a sacrifice, It is GREED, more greed and still more greed.

1 13 14 15 16 17 20
588
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x