SDA AMAZING DISCOVERIES at Mosaïek Church

Amazing DiscoveriesUrgent warning about Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) Evengelistic drive 2010 at the Mosaïek Theatre in Randburg from 10 November to 4 December 2010:  AMAZING DISCOVERIES 2010.

The Seventh Day Adventist church currently has adverts on TV (SABC) and Radio (702) regarding a FREE presentation at the Mosaic Theatre on Egypt, Jews and Palestine, the anti-Christ, the universe, etc., and is being promoted as AMAZING DISCOVERIES. They just don’t STATE UPFRONT that this is an evangelistic outreach from the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

Beware of Amazing Discoveries: it is a website of the Seventh Day Adventists and these FREE “presentations” are part of their 2010 Evangelistic Drive by John Carter.

AMAZING DISCOVERIES

Professor Walter J. Veith (from the University of the Western Cape) has been their jewel in their crown for many years. He is seemingly very credible in teaching the Bible, the end times and exposing the Roman Catholic Church. But he is a deceiver because he states that the Roman Catholic Church changed the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday, completely ignoring the Word of God in the book of Acts and how the apostles met on the first day of the week, the day of Jesus’ resurrection.  The Lord Jesus Christ is our Sabbath.

SDA have a gospel of works as well as a false prophetess, Ellen G White. They believe that the doctrine of the Sabbath is still a law by maintaining that because it’s part of the Ten Commandments, those who do NOT keep the Saturday Sabbath are not saved and that during the Tribulation that the Mark of the Beast all those who do not keep the Sabbath.  They have their own bible (Clear Word Bible) which is widely used in SDA churches, which contains serious false teachings concocted by Ellen G White.

“We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White’s writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other”.  [Emphasis added]  Ministry Magazine, Oct. 1981

The following is from the SDA Sandton website:

2. JOHN CARTER CAMPAIGN 10 November – 4 December 2010

The GRC, a group of lay evangelists from the Gauteng region, are partnering with the Carter Report and Hope Channel to present “Amazing Discoveries 2010”. From 10 November until 4 December, people living in the Johannesburg, South Africa, area can attend this campaign at the Mosaïek Theatre in Randburg. For the FIRST TIME IN SOUTH AFRICA’S HISTORY, they are planning to storm the city with television ads. The presses will soon be rolling off 500,000 colour brochures, and 100,000 homes will receive a beautiful hand addressed invitation. The campaign will be broadcast LIVE from the Mosaïek Theatre via microwave link to Sentech and then to homes and churches on the Ku-band (small dish) satellite system. The TV broadcast will start on Friday night the 12th of November from 20:00 – 21:00 on most nights until the 4th of December. Don’t miss this exciting series.  www.sandtonchurch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=37&Itemid=68

The Mosaiek church in which the Theatre is located is run by Johan Geyser, Trevor Hudson and Dr Gys du Plessis, with associates Stephan Joubert, Koos van der Merwe, Braam van der Schyff, Theo Geyser and Kola de Klerk. They are linked to the (Mosaïek Church in Los Angeles) run by Erwin McManus and the (Mosaïek Christian Church in Rocklin California) by Frank and Dyan Colacurcio. Other friends include Bill Hybels (Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago) and (Velocity Culture) Ron Martoia and (Woodmen Valley Chapel Colorado) Matt Heard. Stephan Joubert is linked to the Dutch Reformed Church, Moreleta Park Church in Pretoria.

The Mosaïek church is a dark place, filled with New Age teaching, contemplative prayer and other occult practices.

Pastor Gavin Sklar Chik who spoke at the Mosaïek  church in Fairlands not so long ago taught at his Brackendowns Baptists church (in Johannesburg, Alberton) that people “are to breathing out sin and breathing in righteousness”. He still teaches at the Baptist Theological College and he is now known as the Baptist Mystic!

To answer the question regarding the Sabbath:

THIS is the Gospel Truth of the matter:

See complete article here:  Jesus Christ is our Sabbath Rest

1) Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath because HE WAS THE LAW – (Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath because HE, was the Law of the Sabbath.)
2) Jesus Christ
taught the Sabbath by having kept the Sabbath because he was still on earth and Lord of the Sabbath Day on earth.
3) When Jesus was crucified many miraculous things took place, one of these being that Jesus Christ
fulfilled the Law and it was written in our hearts (all 10 commandments)
4) Jesus became our Sabbath
REST in all born again Christians – we do not need to WORK anymore to keep this commandment because the HOLY SPIRIT now abides in each and every born again believer.  

Hence all truly born again believers keep all commandants of God.

See this article on the SDA church: 

SDA Church – Seeking and Finding New Havens of Error and Deceit

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Tee

So what you are saying is that you AGREE TO THE FOLLOWING:

——————–

SDA lies: Ellen G Whites beliefs

1. Christ’s death, resurrection, and assention to Heaven:

– SDA’s believe that Jesus did not die as God but as a mere man, God the Father was absent during Christ’s death, that He did not revive Christ from the dead or called him from the grave, but that an angel instead; God remained absent and Jesus first had to go into the air and had to refuse the worship of the heavenly hosts until He was ‘approved’ by his Father.

2. A belief in the Godhead of the Holy Trinity.

– Adventists claim to believe fully in the trinity But Adventists also believe that Christ is Michael the Archangel. They are greatly taken aback when they learn that Christianity cannot accept this belief that in fact it is anathema to Christianity. This destroys the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

3. A belief in the final authority of the Bible as doctrinal instructor-

– “The Bible and the Bible only”. Adventists will readily assure the inquiring Christian that their beliefs are based on the Bible alone but the Adventist Church has gone on official record a number of times to demonstrate that Ellen White is the final arbiter, the infallible interpreter of the Bible; and this has commonly been taught from the pulpit to Adventist believers. To my knowledge, not once has Adventism ever taken any position that contradicts Ellen White’s teachings. Adventism must stand or fall on her word.

4. A belief in Justification through Faith.

– Here Adventism vehemently proclaims that it believes in justification through faith. This doctrine, however, has caused and continues to cause more confusion in the Adventist Church than any other doctrine the “Justification/sanctification” interpretations from the pen of Ellen White not only contradict the Bible but contradict each other. This leaves the SDA reader who follows Mrs White completely confused on the subject.
By far the most appalling of Ellen White’s “Justification through Sanctification” heretical statements are these from her most widely-circulated book, The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan:

“Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above, are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil “. (p 425)

“In that fearful time the righteousness must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor” (p. 614)

SDA teaches at best a contradictory doctrine of Justification through Faith, in which perfectionism is stressed over faith.

————————-

Other things:

Ellen G Whites beliefs:

– Hell is not eternal torment (Unscriptural!)
– Baptismal regeneration (Unscriptural!)
– Investigative Judgment (Unscriptural!)
– Salvation by Works (Unscriptural!)
– Satan is the joint sin bearer (Unscriptural!)
– Soul sleep (Unscriptural!)

————————-

Well thank you for your answer. Much appreciated. Now if anyone comes and reads this thread they will clearly see the devilish doctrines of the SDA church and why we WARN people.

————————-

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Revelation 14:12 (Amplified Bible)

12Here [comes in a call for] the steadfastness of the saints [the patience, the endurance of the people of God], those who [habitually] keep God’s commandments and [their] faith in Jesus.

Gods commandments here refers to the entire Bible as a whole IN CONTEXT.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Daniel

Let me guess you are a SDA? Spotted like a sore thumb.

And by the way, if you can’t tell that those are HERESIES then you have a big problem and I advise you to read this:

This is a CHRISTIAN WEBSITE where people who come on there actually know a thing of two about the Bible and can spot a devillish idea from a mile away. You think I lack a Christian attitude because I refuse to agree with SDA doctrine. Well to bad, so sad for you.

If you want scripture, here is scripture: http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book%206,%203%20Save%20the%20Sabbath.pdf An ENTIRE BOOK just for you.

Gerhard Ebersöhn

——-JESUS CHRIST IS OUR SABBATH REST ————

This is incorrect, “OUR SABBATH REST”, is “OUR” doing! not God’s, pray?

Irony of ” OUR SABBATH REST” is, it is OUR, WORK! And there is no righteousness through or of works! So there cannot be something like “OUR SABBATH REST”— it STAYS human energy spent whether on ‘rest’ or ‘work’, no difference.

Therefore you will nowhere find the Scriptures speak of Christ being “OUR SABBATH REST”; it’s a fallacy. It is not Christ! And Christ also, is not “OUR SABBATH REST”; Christ is the “the Rest of GOD”. “Thus it is written”, and thus only.

What is more, Jesus Christ is God’s Rest, ja, in his fullness ….BUT, in his resurrection specifically, explicitly, emphatically, ULTIMATELY! Like nowhere, no how, no time, else. “O, That I may know Him and the Power of His RESURRECTION!”

It MUST therefore be expected that Christ would rise from the dead on the Sabbath Day; God always, rested in Him and through Him, also when “God the Seventh Day rested”. God did not “FINISH on the Seventh Day” finished He not in and through and unto Christ. No blessing of the Seventh Day but the blessing of the Promises of God in Christ. “ALL the works of God”; “FROM all the works of God”, “IN CHRIST”— IN THAT “God RAISED Him from the dead and set Him at His Own Right Hand in heavenly Exaltation.” Ephesians 1:19. Or not at all. “God thus … in these last day … by His Son … concerning the Seventh Day spake.” Is “thus”, still speaking; and into eternity “thus”, will keep on speaking— “BY HIS SON”: “Jesus Christ yesterday, today and tomorrow the same!”

Had Jesus not been raised from the dead, “SABBATH’S”, God would not “thus concerning the Seventh Day” have spoken! God is the God of truth; and the devil is the father of lies. A word different than “God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake”, He never spake; and a word “thus concerning” a different day, never came from his mouth.

Gerhard Ebersöhn

Tee wrote:

Deborah let me tell you this straight. I am an Adventist and will remain one for the rest of my life. I believe everything that the SDA church upholds and will stand for it scripturally. There is only one thing here. How can you say I am talking utter rubbish. Why are you being so emotional. The truth will remain the truth. It is surprising to me that yoiu did not have the guts to respond to my very long comment instead you just give some three lines. You amaze me my sister. And point of correction I am not a she I am a he. God bless you my dear.Now in conclusion I say read Revelations 14:12 and you will know that the commandments were never abolished. Just realise one thing of all the other people who were writing you are the only one who is still being hard headed. God bless you and I am praying for you

May GE say something:

May GE say something:

Tee, yours is soooo typical SDA audacity; so absolutely Laodecian bombasticism. Ek word naar daarvan! Please remain a SDA for the rest of your life; any other church will be better off without you and the likes of you.

Now I invite you on this forum to stand for the few errors of your Church which I listed, “scripturally”. I dare you! Those points are simple, not ‘emotional’, matter of fact INCIDENCES OF ERROR; ‘uphold’ it if you can with the help of God’s written Word. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO! You – like all Seventh-day Adventists – are unable, and helpless— pathetic, when it comes to handling the Sword of the Word of God. Yes, the Scriptures are a too dangerous both ways cutting instrument of self-injury : it will cut you to pieces before you knew you can’t play with it like a child with a shot-gun. Don’t even try! And not at home, please; because that’s where 90% of accidents happen and just about 100% of suicides. Try it here, where you might hit someone not of your own household. That will be okay, don’t worry.

Then about that “very long comment”…. “my comment”? Yours? It’s a botched up colluder of mostly the enemies of SDAtism. How do you reckon those ‘comments’ – coming from your opponents anyway – useful to you? Could you not stay with the Scriptures only? — that’s it, you cannot! Otherwise you would have stayed with the Scriptures solely and would have been short and sweet.

But without having read your ‘very long comment’ I KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IT WOULD INCLUDE! For example, I could tell you the day before yesterday already it was going to refer to Dwight L. Moody — EVER SO FALSELY. I still haven’t read your “very long comment”, but I’m going to look now if it includes Luther and his remark about Karlstadt — again EVER SO FALSELY I guarantee!

You blah blah about “guts to respond”…. First I dare your guts to answer that short list of mine of SDA heresies. But who will have the STOMACH to ‘respond’ to such a harangue of irrelevancies and trivialities? You – being a Seventh-day Adventist – do not know the meaning of the word ‘guts’; what apply the thing in practice.

Gerhard Ebersöhn

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Revelation 14:12 (Amplified Bible)

12Here [comes in a call for] the steadfastness of the saints [the patience, the endurance of the people of God], those who [habitually] keep God’s commandments and [their] faith in Jesus.

Gods commandments here refers to the entire Bible as a whole IN CONTEXT.

GE adds:

Revelation 14:12 can be read and better understood, if the conjunction ‘kai’ is regarded emphatic: “12Here are those who persevere under suffering—the saints who are faithful to God’s commandments EVEN the faith of Jesus.” God’s Commandments and the Faith of Jesus are the same but the latter is the superlative manifestation of the same.

Gerhard Ebersöhn

Proudly SDA wrote:

My dear Deborah, I truly pray for you. You are the one who is deceived. I know exactly what I am believing in, everything you say is out of the air so fague. It seems to me you are “not really into scripture”. Everything you say is just based on your own opinion. But as I say from now on you will definitly be in my prayers, so that the true Holy Spirit will speak and guide you.

GE says:

WOW! if ever something presumptuous and haughty …. grillerig!

Derek Gohl

If you want to be a strong mountain moving devil defeating world overcomming christian better stop listening to all the negative critical faultfinding chritians who don’t have enough power to blow their nose,yet instead of setting the captives free,spend all their spare time peddling fear from their internet soapboxes.Just keep listening to the preachers who build up the body of Christ and avoid the accusers of the bretheren like the plague,or you will become contaminated by their faultfinding spirit,luv in Christ,Derek Gohl

Gerhard Ebersöhn

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Tee

>> Well a lot of you are running from fact. Someone asked why you observe all the other 9 commandments and leave one

This has already been answered in the comments section. 3 times in fact. We do not leave one out. Jesus came to fulfill the law, it is now written in our hearts. Jesus is the Sabbath day. He is our rest.

Tee, I am sorry to hear that your church has never told you the truth about SDA and Ellen G White. Go ask them.

SDA wrote:

Deborah

If you think Adventism revolves around EG White, you are wrong, and don’t know enough about SDA’s. We don’t adore her. You have just heard comments and excerpts taken out of context…….

Its wrong when some SDA people liken EG White to the Bible. She even says in her writings to never do that, and also she says, the Bible is adequate enough on its own to lead us to Salvation. She Never equates herself with God, Jesus, or the Bible.. Crazy Adventist extremists to that! you have people like this through out the Christian world….

Ellen White is actually one the founders of the Adventist Church.. like John Wesley, Calvin, Luther… etc… They all are not our god’s.. We are not a church based on a human being, But on a God, and the Bible.

Adventists don’t go against Scripture. We read the same bible’s as you, We don’t publish our own Bible with EG White stuff in there… Thats is just Bad mouthing Adventist. Not a very Christian thing to do…….. I have NIV, New King James, New Century Version, just like you probably do…..

Don’t glorify Christianity, for with out Jesus its also just another movement based on tradition…

There are some Adventist who also glorify Adventism… and forget Christ!

The So called normal Bible Believing Christian world is so far the from the Bible in so many ways… I met 2 different people, who say that their churches don’t even teach about the minor prophets, old testament stuff, but just focus on Paul’s Letters and the Gospels…

I’m open to worship with many other christians, and churches.. As long as Jesus is the centre and reason for Worship, and not ourselves or tradition. Are you open to Worship with us or any other church?

GE has a few questions to ask about this…..

True: “Jesus came to fulfill the law”;
True: “the law, it is now written in our hearts”;
True: “He is our rest.”

Where do we read that?
In the Scriptures, naturally; but especially in the Scriptures in Hebrews 3 and 4. There, the word “r-e-s-t” is predominant; everyone reads those chapters and sees that with the word “rest”, the Person of Jesus Christ is intended. If one might read these chapters and not see it, then I am wasting my time with him, typing what I’m typing. But if we could both see Christ in these chapters and especially in the word “rest” used, then we may both sing the praises of the Lord for it.

So we read these two chapters from Hebrews, from beginning to end and EVERY TIME we come across the word ‘rest’, it is the same. That sounds funny to mention, yes. And every time, somehow, we relate the word “rest”, with Jesus Christ, yes. And that never is funny; that every time is serious because only through this connection of the word “rest” and Jesus Christ do we discover the thrust of these chapters, which thrust is towards an understanding of our own salvation. Correct!

Unfortunately, BENEATH this correct and true READING of these chapters is hidden IN ONE PLACE, the LIE OF THE DEVIL. It is satan’s LIE very cleverly WOVEN IN, in the fabric of the passage so that NO ONE SHOULD NOTICE IT. And no one seems to notice that devilish snare in fact, so that the honest, upright, faithful follower of Jesus Christ shall read with eyes that see but CANNOT SEE because of the satanic cunning lurking underneath that which is being READ. Just like in the beginning, when satan appeared to the woman but in the most wonderful and beautiful body of the ever so innocent appearing snake. Jesus said the devil was a MURDERER from the beginning; and he was. The devil was a murderer from the beginning through his LYING!

You think the devil changed since? Got good? Got converted? Got much less real because we humans got much better informed and enlightened? You’re in for a surprise! The devil improved a lot on his wickedness and deceptiveness since, yes! Now observe HOW he improved so much: he even learned to EMPLOY THE WORD OF GOD for his wicked schemes. Again, no, that’s what satan has been doing at the beginning already, yea! He twisted the Word of God like an arrow in the air right back at the Speaker of the Word; he makes GOD, the liar! Read the history of the factual truth of the devil’s ways again in Genesis 2 and 3. See if I am telling you a lie here. And if I do, then show it here, you have all the opportunity in the world to expose me for a liar myself if you wish.

I say, satan the devilish devil has had his filthy hand in the works also here in these BEAUTIFUL chapters from the Word of GOD, in Hebrews 3 and 4 where we EVERY TIME read the word “rest” throughout.

Let me tell you something you might not have known, actually most probably could not have noticed or have known about in any way. First because of your NOBLE TRUST in the people who actually put that Bible of yours into your hands for its reading. Did Adam and Eve have reason to distrust the devil. Yes and no. They were guilty themselves for having mistrusted God and the Word of God, yes. But they haven’t had first hand experience in unbelief, we must admit in their favour. All that can be said ‘in their favour’ is that they were sinless still as created from the hand of God. I actually cannot really understand it, but anyhow ….did Adam and Eve have reason to distrust the snake as such? No! The snake was just an innocent creature by God’s hand as they. By all appearances the devil was a snake. So Adam and Eve had no reason to distrust the snake; but the DEVIL was in the snake nevertheless!

Just so here in these two chapters : AS WE R-E-A-D them! Man, simply, the TRANSLATION of the word “rest” is the devil’s deadly VENOM, and the devil’s TEETH are the readers’ TRUST. ““Trust is deceit’s only trust.” C.J. Langenhoven.” What we see, is NOT what we see, when we read Hebrews at this specific place, chapter 4 verse 9, the clause, “There remains therefore a _REST_ for the people of God”, NKJV; “Darum ist noch eine RUHE vorhanden dem Volke Gottes”.

WHY? Because of the TRANSLATION I said. Because the word in the Greek for the concept of “rest”, is a DIFFERENT word than what is in 4:9 TRANSLATED, “rest”!!! But THAT, who would have known? Who would have seen? Who would have REALISED is a LIE?!

Burning Lamp

I have a simple question for those defending Seventh Day Adventism.

What is your Gospel – what do you believe one has to do to accept Christ as Savior? Keep it short and simple. I would be interested to know.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Derek Gohl

My but you must be the smartest man on earth. Not. Firstly, you have just insulted a group of born again Christians trying to open the eyes of the SDA church goers. Secondly you side with Seventh Day Adventists – a cult from hell. And then you speak nonsense about ticking people’s ears with rubbish – that which the bible warns YOU yes you Derek not to do. Very smart you are. Not.

Benedict

Hi everybody,
This is my 2cts contribution for this hot topic.

Consider this – sabbath means rest not worship of assembly. Unfortunately this word ‘sabbath’ has not been translated as rest in many passages and either the hebrew or greek word ‘shabbat’ or sabbath has been kept.
my main contention with the SDA is this – they do not insist so much on the REST day, but insist on the ASSEMBLY or WORSHIP DAY must be on a saturday. This contradicts the scriptures, especially ROMANS 14 and John 4:20:24 – ’20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.’
Worship is no more limited to a place or a day or feast days.
(By the way, why insist on the 7th day feast and not on the other fests days which were required of the Israelites? According to LEV 23 the weekly sabbath day was the first feast day to be obeserved. No isrealites were to decide for themselves which feast day they want to observe. It was either all or death. God was so demanding.To all SDA, PLEASE GO AND READ LEV 23:1-3 – THE SABBATH IS A FEAST DAY AS ALL THE OTHER FEASTS DAYS, YOU CANNOT PICK AND CHOOSE).

Jesus said that the sabbath was given for man, for a rest and rejuvenation of his body & mind. Observing this day gives no one any spirirual advantage or benefits, only faith in christ ans his atoning work does give the true spiritual rest that all men need to have to be saved and delivered for the power of sin and death. Heb 3:15-19; 4:1-11. vs 11 ‘Let us LABOUR therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.’ How do you explain that verse?

I beleive, that it is good for a man to rest on a day that is most convenient to him and his family. But to worship God, no one can insist on any particular day or place. There is no need of a law to tell christans when and where to gather. To the Hebrews, the author (Paul) exhort the christians to “exhort on another daily” (3:13). And the often quoted passage – not ‘to forsake the assembling of ourselves’.

Please, insist on a physical rest day if you want, but do not make the sabbath a mandatory (make forceful through a law)day for christians to assemble and worship the Father.

Consider this scripture.
Heb. 4:8 – ‘For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.’
The new rest day (the spiritual one, is to come to Jesus and have faith in his work and rest he gives us. Jesus says – Come unto ME, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST. Rest from our works of sin and from trying to keep the letter of the law who kills. But the spirit of the law of the sabbath, is the true rest for eternity which the Father gives to all men who believes in his son Jesus.
Please read John 6. It’s an eye and mind opening passage revealed to us by Jesus himself.
vs – ’26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.’
Vs 29 is so clear. Jesus tells us in vs 27 – to labour (work) for the true food that will give us the true life. In vs 29 he clarifes what is this ‘labour’, this work that we must do. It is to believe.
And in vs 30 the hearers asked Jesus – ‘They said therefore unto him, What SIGN shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?’
As from there, Jesus start to explain what is this SIGN and what is the WORK he was about to accomplish.

The sabbath was A SIGN God gave to Israel, to make a distintion between them and the nations around them. In the new covenant, Jesus gives a new SIGN. Faith (trust) in his person and his atoning, finished work through his sufferings, death and resurrection. Today we must LABOUR be have this REST. This is a beautiful oxymoron (two contradict terms which follows). But this LABOUR, WORK is to have faith Jesus and his sacrifice.
If we believe in another SIGN to have rest, what are we doing with Jesus blood?

I know that many, including the SDA will argue, that we still have to obey the law of God (Moses). Remembler, the letter of the law kills.
Obeserving the physical sabbath is of no spiritual advantage. But the true spiritual rest from our works of flesh and death, gives the true life, which the Father wants all men to have, throuh his son.
Instead of insisting on the letter of the law, please, ask the Father, though his Spirit to show you what is the spirit of the law, revealed in the new covenant and insist on these things.
May The Father open our minds so that we can see the riches of His grace and know his abundant love for us in His son Jesus Christ.

From Mauritius

Gerhard Ebersöhn

Derek Gohl wrote:

If you want to be a strong mountain moving devil defeating world overcomming christian better stop listening to all the negative critical faultfinding chritians who don’t have enough power to blow their nose,yet instead of setting the captives free,spend all their spare time peddling fear from their internet soapboxes.Just keep listening to the preachers who build up the body of Christ and avoid the accusers of the bretheren like the plague,or you will become contaminated by their faultfinding spirit,luv in Christ,Derek Gohl

GE asks Derek Gohl,
How long did it take you to compose this ode to yourself, which I bet you read every Sabbath before some SDA congregation and recite in every conversation you have with one of your fellow SDAs. I do not see you engaged in asking after the meaning of Scripture anywhere. Let’s hear what you have to say on Scripture, my dear man.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

>> How long did it take you to compose this ode to yourself

Sorry I just have to laugh… that was funny.

Amitaruci

Hi Deborah and everyone else,

I’m currently looking for a church, my background is buddist and one day I found a bible in my post box and have read the whole book and now I’m inn search of a church will you please asssist me ASAP.

Thanks and God Bless
A

Michael

Derek Gohl’s indoctrination is the biggest lie that crept into the minds of weak christians and vulnerable people seeking the truth. It is an abomination that has infiltrated the church and has a huge following as it appeals to the flesh and mans’ worldliness and selfishness. It appeals to those who compromise the gospel …those who are quite comfortable listening to Oprah Winfrey or someone similar. They want heaven now on earth…as Benny Hinn said …who needs gold in heaven…I WANT IT now.
Protesting against SDA’s is entirely another deceiving issue…but the same spirit of Satan’s…to lead away from being truly saved in eternity.
Satan strategy is to CREATE ISSUES among people…to lead them off the power of the preaching of the cross…the saving gospel.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Amitaruci or is that Nerfititi

Well I would advise that you NEVER go to a Seven Day Adventist church. As you can see, they like to come to websites writing lies saying they are buddhists looking for a church to go too.

Nerfititi, you should be very ashamed of yourself. Have you ever head of Jesus Christ? Read this article:

Burning Lamp

GE, I don’t know what you mean when you refer to my “bias”, but the reason I addressed the Sabbath issue was because of personal experience with a lady whose faith was shipwrecked and is to this day due to the false understanding of the Sabbath. She will not go to church because she believes she must observe the Sabbath and most churches hold Sunday as the primary day of worship and she cannot drive at night to attend a Saturday evening or any other evening service during the week. We have worked with her, presented truth after truth to her from the Word but she remains entrenched in her error. She would attend a Messianic service but I have never found one that is scriptural. She was not raised SDA, but another Sabbatarian group which is similar except they do not accept the teachings of Ellen G. White.

As far as reaching someone who is SDA, one does not have to get into the finer points of their beliefs. This has been proven over and over again in our experience on the mission field. The crux of the matter is the Gospel. They are Jesus + – they have a system of works. How one views salvation is key. If that is established, the rest of the house of cards will come tumbling down as they grow in their faith. Unfortunately, Sabbath-keeping is a hard one to uproot as borne out in my experience with the aforementioned lady. She has accepted Christ and does not believe that Sabbath-keeping saves her, but she believes that she is not obeying God if she does not keep the Sabbath. We just pray that God will reveal His truth to her eventually. My point was the damaging effects of Sabbath-keeping. It is legalistic and the letter of the Law kills.

I have appreciated your comments and your extensive knowledge – I am not versed in the finer points as you are and our ministries are different.

Burning Lamp

Michael, you have hit the nail on the head. The Gospel is the foundation of the faith no matter who is being dealt with whether Roman Catholic, Mormon, SDA, JWs, or a pseudo Christian faith. It all comes back to the Gospel. That is why Deborah is so dogmatic about the error of Calvinism because it guts the true Gospel. She is one of the few watchers in the Church today who will take this stand and takes a lot of heat as a result.

Leon

Deborah I said I would and still will gladly,and in love, answer and explain any one of the 100 misrepresented statements against us.

To answer Dan Knezacek on Acts.20:7. The Biblical day is from sunset to sunset Gen.1:5;Lev.23:32. It is not where the sun become the centre of the day ,12hr.before midday till 12hr.after midday. Thus in Bible, Sunday starts on Saturday evening with sunset. The King James is correct with “first day of the week”. Phillips modern English is actually wrong with “Saturday evening”. Todays English Version and the Living Bible also says “on Saturday”. Paul kept on talking till midnight because he intended to leave on Sunday,which he would not do on a Sabbath.

This is the only verse in the Bible that could wrongly be used to justify sunday keeping.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Leon

Tell me do you AGREE with this SDA list below:

These ARE Ellen G Whites beliefs:

1. Christ’s death, resurrection, and assention to Heaven:

– SDA’s believe that Jesus did not die as God but as a mere man, God the Father was absent during Christ’s death, that He did not revive Christ from the dead or called him from the grave, but that an angel instead; God remained absent and Jesus first had to go into the air and had to refuse the worship of the heavenly hosts until He was ‘approved’ by his Father.

2. A belief in the Godhead of the Holy Trinity.

– Adventists claim to believe fully in the trinity But Adventists also believe that Christ is Michael the Archangel. They are greatly taken aback when they learn that Christianity cannot accept this belief that in fact it is anathema to Christianity. This destroys the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

3. A belief in the final authority of the Bible as doctrinal instructor-

– “The Bible and the Bible only”. Adventists will readily assure the inquiring Christian that their beliefs are based on the Bible alone but the Adventist Church has gone on official record a number of times to demonstrate that Ellen White is the final arbiter, the infallible interpreter of the Bible; and this has commonly been taught from the pulpit to Adventist believers. To my knowledge, not once has Adventism ever taken any position that contradicts Ellen White’s teachings. Adventism must stand or fall on her word.

4. A belief in Justification through Faith.

– Here Adventism vehemently proclaims that it believes in justification through faith. This doctrine, however, has caused and continues to cause more confusion in the Adventist Church than any other doctrine the “Justification/sanctification” interpretations from the pen of Ellen White not only contradict the Bible but contradict each other. This leaves the SDA reader who follows Mrs White completely confused on the subject.
By far the most appalling of Ellen White’s “Justification through Sanctification” heretical statements are these from her most widely-circulated book, The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan:

“Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above, are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil “. (p 425)

“In that fearful time the righteousness must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor” (p. 614)

SDA teaches at best a contradictory doctrine of Justification through Faith, in which perfectionism is stressed over faith.

————————-

Other things:

Ellen G Whites beliefs:

5 Hell is not eternal torment (Unscriptural!)
6 Baptismal regeneration (Unscriptural!)
7 Investigative Judgment (Unscriptural!)
8 Salvation by Works (Unscriptural!)
9 Satan is the joint sin bearer (Unscriptural!)
10 Soul sleep (Unscriptural!)

Dawn

[EDITED: Praying for DTW is futile. Your god is nothing but a deceiver and the father of lies.]

Zelda

This is not about SDAdventism but about the Sabbath

BL wrote: ” You err if you believe that the Sabbath was established at creation.”

I favour the Sabbath because I cannot see a clear mandate to ” keep” Sunday according to the Bible. I think the Sabbath was instituted at the creation as a day of communion with God (before the fall) and has never changed. Why are the first archealogical accounts of a 7day-cycle seen in the ancient Syrian/Summerian history? That goes back long before Moses or Abraham? How did Noah know which were ” clean” and ” unclean” animals ( of which 7pairs of clean beasts were to be taken on ark)..obviously God communicated his will (law?) to the pre- flood generation which was carried over by Noah to the postflood generations. The first manna was collected prior to Mt Horeb….and then they already knew that they had to collect double for the Sabbath? ( How did Moses know what the Sabbath was?) Why does the 10 commandments say ” Remember to keep the Sabbath holy” …..you can only remember or recollect something you already knew?

I have tried to understand what GE said about the Sabbath but quite honestly he seems to be an intellectual notch above my understanding. I do however feel uncomfortable with his insinuations that the Bible is errantly translated or somehow the devil’s deception:
” I say, satan the devilish devil has had his filthy hand in the works also here in these BEAUTIFUL chapters from the Word of GOD, in Hebrews 3 and 4 where we EVERY TIME read the word “rest” throughout.”
Must I then understand his understanding of the above mentioned translation? Or maybe I just don’t understand him at all!

I know that ” God is not the author of confusion” and that I alone will be held accountable for what I believe….and I have prayed for guidance and understanding – but for my life I cannot see that Sunday observance is the will of God?

Leon

Deborah ek sal C.E.se probleem oor die enge(25/11) andwoord.

Soos E.White dit in n visioen gesien het.Voordat Jesus aan die kruis gesterf het was die Vader reg by hom,met Sy heerlikheid in duisternis gehul en die aarde het gebewe.Toe Jesus moes opstaan het die Vader Sy engel gestuur. Die lig vanaf die vader se troon het die engel vooruit gegaan, die aarde het gebewe en die wagte het soos dooies op die grond geval.Die boodskapper het na Jesus geroep en gesê “u Vader roep u”. Dus, wie het vir Jesus geroep? die Vader of die boodskapper?.

Hierdie probleme wat uitgewys word teen E.White is so ooglopend kwaadsteek dat ek dit nie weer sal andwoord nie. [EDITED by DTW: You wont answer anymore? Leon, these things ARE FROM Ellen G Whites books. They are not fabrications, They are not lies, They are HER WORDS, things SHE believes. If you believe as she does agree that these listed items are GOOD. Or, if you disagree with Ellen G White, say NO, that these things are WRONG. But you sit in a dilemma because you can’t disagree with your Prophetess can you? Well if I was lied too I would tell the SDA church to take a long walk off a short plank and start new seeking the TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.]

ina

For those who think they can justify there actions by using Jesus and the apostles as an escape goat.

Jesus came to fulfill the 10 commandments not to do away with it. It is in Black on White and clear that we should keep the Sabbath, I am not a SDA but i do believe that we should keep the Sabbath as this is a direct order from God and this is what Jesus Himself had to say about this idea: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17). and Jesus, on the other hand, said heaven and earth would disappear before the smallest part of the law would do so (verse 18). He said the law would continue until everything is accomplished. Because the fulfillment of many biblical prophecies of Christ’s second coming is yet to occur (the prophecies have not yet been accomplished), we know the law has not ceased to exist.

So if you really believe in Jesus and have been saved the commandments will be easy to keep because you will live in unconditional love.

Jesus never said that we can keep the Sabbath on a day that will suite us. It is the apostles that meat on a Monday not Jesus and remember the apostles were human. Jesus never said to them they the can now keep the Sabbath on the first day of the week.(where is the proof if Jesus did say that) If so then we can change the rest of the commandments to suite us as well. Do not kill but hate who we want, do not steel but take what you need……………..

Read this of about the 10 commandment
[URL removed]

Burning Lamp

Dear Zelda,

You do understand the difference between the new and old covenants, right? And you do understand when Christ was resurrected? Therein lies your answer and clears up the “confusion”. Much more could be said, but that is the crux of the matter. There is no more Sabbath – Christ Jesus IS our Sabbath – He came to fulfill the Law which served as a teacher to show us our inability to please God and the need for a Savior. We meet for corporate worship on the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath. We can and should worship Him every day of the week.

Michael

Zelda…the creating of an ISSUE around the sabbath is a red herring…bunny trail…smokescreen…call it what you like.
It has absolutely no significance in relation to Christ’s mission to save sinners from the second death.
Anybody who determines God’s attitude in this petty regard for an irrelevant ISSUE is insulting God’s greatness and integrity.His sacrifice at Calvary in it’s enormity puts all insignificant things to absolute shame.
I believe anybody who sees God in this way has totally underestimated the magnitude of his divine love for man.Fighting about a day whether Saturday or Sunday is silly…if you have it in your heart to set aside a special day to devote to Him so be it and I can respect this but do not expect this to be a main issue for everybody…the most important thing with God is getting the PRIORITIES right.

Leon

Ek wil die laaste belangrike stelling oor die sabbat maak dan dink ek die belangrike dinge van beide kante is gemaak.

Die 4de gebod is die enigste gebod waar God homself identifiseer.Dis ook die enigste gebod wat die 3 vereistes van n seel bevat nl.1.TITEL Here jou god. 2.MAGSGEBIED hemel en aarde. 3.GESAG Skepper. Dit is ook die enigste gebod wat amptelik deur God geseen en geheilig is Gen.2:3.

Die sabbat gebod is die enigste wat sê hou op werk, en waar Jesus sê kom rus na n harde week se werk aan My voete en leer van My. Dit is nou waar ons van werke beskuldig word, as ons by Jesus wil rus vind.DIT IS NIE WERK NIE.

Deut.6:2,3. sê God dat SY gebooie gepaartgaan met voorspoed. Deut.6:8 sê dit moet n TEKEN op jou HAND (denke)en VOORKOP (dade) wees.

Ex:16,17 sonder die 4de gebod uit as die EWIGE TEKEN van God. So ook Eseg.20:12,20. In Eseg.8:16 ontstaan n vreeslike gruwel, mense begin om die son te aanbid.In Eseg.9:4 sê God dat die wat nie van Hom afvallig geword het, en wat sug oor die gruwel Sy merk moet ontvang.

As God se ewige merk, teken en seel Sy geheiligde sabbat is,dan wonder mens nogal of die son ook n rol gaan speel by satan se merk wat ook oor vals aanbidding gaan Rev.13:15,16.

Matt.24:20,21 sê op die einde voor Jesus kom gaan daar n verwoeste vervolging kom, bid dat julle nie die sabbat sal oortree nie.Rev.12:17 sê die oorlog wat die draak (satan)gaan aanvoer sal gaan oor die gebooie en die wat vashou aan Jesus se voorbeeld en leer.

Waar was Jesus op die sabbat? Luk.4:16 sê volgens Sy GEWOONTE was Hy op sabbat in die sinagoge (NUWE BEDELING).

n Naam verteenwoordig ook n karakter Ex.34:5,6, dus volgens Rev.14:1 moet ons Jesus se karakter in ons koppe hê.1 John.2:6

Om Jesus lief te hê is onlosmakend van Sy gebooie John.14:15,21. (al 10 James.2:10) Dit kan dalk ook help by die hemelpoort Rev.22:14 .

Jessie

[EDITED by DTW: Another SDA trying to convince us that SDA’s are biblical, when they have been proven in this forum to NOT BE BIBLICAL at all – HERETICAL is more the words I would use]

———————-

Hello to all of you.
The Bible says in Matthew 7: 1-6. Judge not lest ye be judged.Why are you so angry with the SDA people. They are preaching from the Bible. They have been reading the King James Version for years.They do not have their own Bible. There are many translations of the Bible which can be found in any Book store. Are they all wrong? If SDA’s preach anything that is not from the Bible then prove them wrong. They are not a cult, and do not force anyone to either join the church or stop them from leaving. They preach the Gospel because they are obeying the command of Jesus as found in Matthew 28:19-20. E.G.white was one of the founders of the church. Why don’t you attack the founders of other churches, such as Martin Luther, John Huss, John Calvin, John Wesley etc. John Carter is preaching the GOSPEL and he is using the Archeological proof as further evidence that the Bible is the True Word of God.Those of you who accuse him of false teaching, please study the Bible with earnestness and prayer that the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth as Jesus has promised.If there are any texts that John Carter has used that is not correct according to whatever version of the Bible that you are using please show us so that we can read it. In all his presentations he has not mentioned EG White. He has given Bible texts as proof of God. EG White is not God, but her writings are very helpful in many ways in our Christian walk, eg, on health, education, family life,etc.Please read her books.The Bible say that gossip is as bad as idol worship. Because of your comments you may turn many away from accepting Jesus and salvation and the truth. The John Carter messages may be the only Gospel message that some people have heard. If they lose salvation their blood will be on your shoulders. Be careful little lips what you speak, for the Father up above is looking down in love.READ 1 JOHN 2.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

ina

Read Burning Lamps comment. In fact I will paste it here for you to answer your question. What you are doing is biblical wrong. Here is why:

“You do understand the difference between the new and old covenants, right? And you do understand when Christ was resurrected? Therein lies your answer and clears up the “confusion”. Much more could be said, but that is the crux of the matter. There is no more Sabbath – Christ Jesus IS our Sabbath – He came to fulfill the Law which served as a teacher to show us our inability to please God and the need for a Savior. We meet for corporate worship on the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath. We can and should worship Him every day of the week.”

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