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Author: Tom (Discerning the World)

SDA Church – Seeking and Finding New Havens of Error and Deceit

SDA Church

Ellen G White

Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) Horrors

We all know the idiom: “Out of the frying pan into the fire” which simply means, If you get out of one problem, but find yourself in a worse situation, you are out of the frying pan, into the fire.

Many Christians who have become disillusioned with the Dutch Reformed Church are abandoning their “mother church” and seeking new havens in other churches. Unfortunately, they have become so captivated by the friendliness, warmth, and congeniality of the members of other churches that they are inadvertently caught up in other and sometimes worse heresies and false doctrines without realizing it. No wonder the Bible warns:

So have I become your enemy by telling you the truth? These men [the Judaizers] eagerly seek you [to entrap you with honeyed words and attention, to win you over to their philosophy], not honorably [for their purpose is not honorable or worthy of consideration]. They want to isolate you [from us who oppose them] so that you will seek them. (Galatians 4:16-17; Amplified Bible).

A Church that is heartily enthused by the confusion in the DRC and other non-Adventist churches, and who is passionately and actively involved in making proselytes, is the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Their leaders are avidly and vigorously pointing out the errors and deception in all the mainline Christian churches because they believe that people ought to leave non-Adventist churches and join the SDA Church in order to be saved and also because Jesus Christ does not intercede for non-Adventists. In May 2002 SDA General Conference President Jan Paulsen delivered a speech to gathered SDA Church leaders in which he made the following remarks:

“ . . . we believe that being Seventh-day Adventists has direct bearing on our salvation; . . . I would risk my whole spiritual life and salvation were I to leave what I am now and join any other community.”

Their revered prophetess Ellen Gould White (November 26, 1827 – July 16, 1915) wrote as follows:

I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages [of the Investigative Judgment], and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefited [sic] by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself . . .”

“I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth . . . But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant”. (Early Writings, p 261). (The remnant being in the SDA Church of course).“

The doctrine of The Investigative Judgment advocates the belief that Christians’ sins are not yet fully forgiven and that they are still counted as guilty before God until proven worthy of complete forgiveness by their good works. Indeed, Mrs. White taught that a believer’s sins are not yet blotted out or forgiven: they are merely pardoned. She taught that one’s eternal destiny will be ultimately determined by a weighing of a believer’s good works and bad works when their name comes up in the Investigative Judgment.

What is the difference between the soteriology of the SDA Church and Islam? VERY LITTLE!

Allah Says:

Then as for him whose balance (of good deeds) will be heavy, He will live a pleasant life (in Paradise). But as for him whose balance (of good deeds) will be light, He will have his home in Hawiyah (pit, i.e. Hell). And what will make you know what it is? (It is) a hot blazing Fire! [101:6-11].

The Myriam Webster Dictionary defines the word “pardon” as follows:

  1. 2:  the excusing of an offense without exacting a penalty offered a pardon to the draft evader

  2. 3a :  a release from the legal penalties of an offense

    b :  an official warrant of remission of penalty

    a royal pardon later released him from a death sentence — American Guide Series: Maryland

  3. 4:  excuse or forgiveness for a fault, offense, or discourtesy I beg your pardon She asked my pardon for taking up so much of my time.

Apart from her disastrous and deceptive errors, Ellen seems to have had some problems with the English language as well.

“The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sin is to be accomplished before the second advent of our Lord” (The Bible’s Answers to the Sabbath Question, p. 44).

“Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner in the day of God”. (The Great Controversy, p. 261).

As you may see, this is a gross rejection of Christ’s finished work on the cross. It not only vilifies Christ’s “TETELESTAI” but also grossly makes God the Father a liar. To equate God the Father with the father of all lies is blasphemy (John 8:44).

Paul wrote with great conviction and certainty:

And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions, Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross. (Colossians 2:13-14).

Even those sins you and I have not as yet committed are all atoned for completely. Does that mean that we have a lease on sin and that we should keep on sinning? No! absolutely not, but if we audaciously believe that we can no longer sin we do not have the truth as an abiding reality in us  (1 John 1:8). And yet, strange as it may seem, the Seventh Day Adventists believe that you can be sinless.

Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam Iived before his transgression” (Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118).

“In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning” (The Bible’s Answers to the Sabbath Question, p. 44).

“To be redeemed means to cease from sin” (Curtis Shearer: The Seven Thunders, p. 43).

Who is the liar? — Jesus Christ, who inspired Paul of Tarsus to write “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:33-39) or the false prophetess, Ellen G. White? If Christians were to be convicted, judged and sentenced for every unrepentant sin, who is going to stand guiltless before God? David cried out:

If You, Lord, should keep account of and treat [us according to our] sins, O Lord, who could stand? (Psalm 130:3).

How could Ellen G. White and all the subsequent leadership members of the SDA Church ever have known whether they had confessed and repented of every sin in thought, word, and action? How can today’s leaders and members of the SDA Church ever know whether they have confessed and repented of every single sin in thought, word, and action?

Yes! of course it is possible to repent of your sins in bulk such as the publican who merely cried out: “Oh God be merciful to me a sinner” and was declared righteous by God, but it is quite impossible to remember every single sin you had done in thought, word, and action in your entire lifespan here on earth. A belief such as this can only lead to a doctrine of uncertainty with regard to one’s salvation and indeed, it is exactly what the SDA Church teaches.

In Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 155, (1900 edition), Mrs. White states,

“Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves . . . Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion; should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. This is misleading“.

“No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words [‘I am saved’] till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God . . . As long as man is full of weakness; for of himself he cannot save his soul; he should never dare to say, ‘I am saved”. (Ellen G. White Review and Herald Record – Book II & IV).

What does God’s Word say?

If we accept [as we do] the testimony of men [if we are willing to take human authority], the testimony of God is greater (of stronger authority), for this is the testimony of God, even the witness which He has borne regarding His Son. He who believes in the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] has the testimony possesses this divine attestation] within himself. He who does not believe God [in this way] has made Him out to be and represented Him as a liar, because he has not believed (put his faith in, adhered to, and relied on) the evidence (the testimony) that God has borne regarding His Son. And this is that testimony (that evidence): God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who possesses the Son has that life; he who does not possess the Son of God does not have that life. I write this to you who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) the name of the Son of God [in the peculiar services and blessings conferred by Him on men], so that you may know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have life, yes, eternal life (1 John 5:9-13).

Once again, who is the liar here? — Almighty God who cannot lie or the greatly revered prophetess of the SDA Church, Ellen G. White?

Perhaps you’ve noticed how utterly confusing the SDA Church doctrines are. The God of the Bible is not a God of confusion; the god of this world is indeed the god of confusion. They assert that no one can know for a certainty that they are saved until Christ returns and yet they confirm that you can be sinless. In the same breath, they also say that the sins of a Christian are not yet forgiven and that they are still on record before God. Does being allegedly sinless make you a perfect candidate for heaven? How on earth can you trust a church that changes faith into a kind of ping-pong game in which the rules are changed with the drop of a hat? The confusion does not end here. There are more and even worse heresies in the SDA Church. Perhaps you would care to ponder the following grossly unbiblical doctrines of the SDA Church.

The sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the cross was not the final atonement

The SDA Church and its proponents () are forever damning the RCC for her stance on their works based soteriology while they themselves are guilty of the very same sin.

Here’s what the SDA members believe:

“Now while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ.” (The Great Controversy, p 622.)

“. . . Instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to His coming”. (The Great Controversy, p. 422).

“Instead of the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 referring to the purifying of the earth, it was now plain that it pointed to the closing work of our High Priest in heaven, the finishing of the atonement . . . (Christian Experience and Teachings of Ellen G. White, p. 56).

As you may have seen this particular doctrine is linked to the year 1844. It concerns a false prophecy by the Millerite Adventist, William Miller, who predicted that Jesus Christ’s Second Coming would occur on October 22, 1844. When that never happened, Hiram Edison amongst others, deftly changed the prophecy by claiming that Daniel 8:14 did not refer to Christ’s Second Coming but His entry into the Holy of Holies of the heavenly sanctuary. This convenient new interpretation was adopted by Ellen G. White who later said:

“The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith, was the declaration, ‘Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.’” (quoting Daniel 8:14) (Ellen White, The Great Controversy, p409, 1888). See also her later statement, “The correct understanding of the ministration in the heavenly sanctuary is the foundation of our faith.”  (White, Evangelism, p. 221).

One of the core doctrines of the SDA Church, known as the central pillar of the Advent faith, is therefore based on a false prophecy that was cleverly changed to cover up the so-called Great Disappointment. This was not the only false prophecy made in the ranks of the SDA Church. Ellen G. White made several more false prophecies among others that many Adventists living in 1856 would see the Second Advent of Jesus Christ.

Over 135 years ago, Mrs. White made another fascinating prophecy during a meeting in Battle Creek, Michigan in May of 1856. She declared that some of those who were in that meeting would die, and become “food for worms,” and that some of them would live on and become “subjects of the seven last plagues,” while still others would “remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus”. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 131-132).

What does the Bible say about false prophets?

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die. And if you say in your [minds and] hearts, How shall we know which words the Lord has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or prove true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).

When God inspires a prophet to foretell the future it will come to pass one hundred percent. If it does not come to pass it proves without a shadow of a doubt that the so-called prophet speaks presumptuously and is, therefore, a false prophet. God has NOT spoken through that prophet and you are not supposed to listen to him or her. However, if you prefer to follow lies, God is not going to prevent you from doing so. In fact, He allows false prophets in our midst to test us whether we truly love Him.

IF A prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder he foretells to you comes to pass, and if he says, Let us go after other gods–gods you have not known–and let us serve them, You shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your [mind and] heart and with your entire being. (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).

It follows that if you do listen to false prophets, you do not love God and are probably not saved. How dare I say such a thing? Well Jesus said,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:1-5; ).

Satan is our sin bearer

“It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed”. (The Great Controversy, p. 422).

As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin”. (The Great Controversy, p. 485.)

“Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin.” (Counsels for the Church, p. 353)

What does the Bible say?

He personally bore our sins in His [own] body on the tree [as on an altar and offered Himself on it], that we might die (cease to exist) to sin and live to righteousness. By His wounds you have been healed. (1 Peter 2:24).

The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world! (1 John 1:29)

This SDA Church doctrine demotes Christ Jesus and exalts Satan.

The sins of a repentant sinner are not forgiven. God still holds them on record against him/her

“All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal Iife”. (The Great Controversy, p. 483).

Mrs. White states that no sin was ever blotted out before October 22, 1844. “At the time appointed for the judgment – the close of the 2300 days in 1844 – began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins”. (Christ In His Sanctuary, p. 122)

“The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sins is to be accomplished before the second advent of the Lord . . . it is impossible that the sins of men should be blotted out until after the judgment at which their cases are to be investigated . . . When the investigative judgment closes, Christ will come . . .” (The Great Controversy, p. 485).

“When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, then the sins of the repentant soul who has received the grace of Christ and has overcome through the blood of the Lamb, will be removed from the records of heaven, and will be placed upon Satan, the scapegoat, the originator of sin, and be remembered no more against him forever”. (Selected Messages, bk. 3, pp. 355-356).

The SDA Church is doing the very same thing of which the Roman Catholic Church, whom they so vociferously criticize, is guilty and that is to deny the complete efficacy of Jesus Christ substitutionary death on the cross.

What does the Bible teach?

When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. (John 19:30).

If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]. (1 John 1:9).

I am writing to you, little children, because for His name’s sake your sins are forgiven [pardoned through His name and on account of confessing His name]. (1 John 2:12).

He is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God’s] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high, (Hebews 1:3).

For then would He often have had to suffer [over and over again] since the foundation of the world. But as it now is, He has once for all at the consummation and close of the ages appeared to put away and abolish sin by His sacrifice [of Himself]. (Hebrews 9:26).

I have blotted out like a thick cloud your transgressions, and like a cloud your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you. (Isaiah 44″22).

Some Christians will have to stand before God without Christ’s mediation

”Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator.” (The Great Controversy, p. 425).

“When Jesus ceases to plead for man, the cases of all are forever decided. This is the time of reckoning with His servants.” (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 2, p. 191).

If Jesus has accomplished an everlasting redemption for whomsoever believes in His vicarious death on the cross, which of course He has, then every single repentant sinner will stand before God “IN Christ,” washed in His precious blood, holy and blameless. They can and will never stand before God outside of Jesus Christ.

God offered Satan his pardon in heaven

“God in His great mercy bore long with Lucifer. He was not immediately degraded from his exalted station when he first indulged the spirit of discontent, nor even when he began to present his false claims before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in heaven. Again and again he was offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission.” (The Great Controversy, p. 495-496).

Angels would have died for man

An angel told Mrs. White that “Angels were so interested for man’s salvation that there could be found among them those who would yield their glory and give their Iife for perishing man.” (Early Writings, p. 127).

This doctrine demotes Jesus Christ to the level of just another created being, apart from some of the angels, who was willing to offer up his life as a ransom for many. In fact, the SDA Church actually believes that Jesus Christ is just another angel— (Michael the Archangel). Adventists are very firm in their belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.  They must take this position because this is what their prophetess, Ellen G. White taught. They also believe that Jesus is God.  There is a glaring contradiction here.  Hebrews 1:13-14 says that Jesus is not an angel.

The Holy Spirit can abandon/leave a Christian

“O my brethren, will you grieve the Holy Spirit, and cause it to depart?” (Selected Messages, bk. 1, p. 126).

If it were true that the Holy Spirit leaves a Christian when he/she grieves Him, it would mean that a saint can lose his/her salvation.

What does the Word of God say?

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever—The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you. (John 14:16-17).

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one. (John 10:28-30).

There is no hell

Seventh-day Adventists, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, teach that when a believer dies his soul “sleeps.” Some believe that you entirely cease to exist.

A general statement of the Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of death is as follows:

“So when a man dies he does not live somewhere else. He is not in heaven, not in hell, not in purgatory. He is not alive at all, anywhere, in any condition whatsoever. He is dead. And to be dead does not mean to be alive. To be dead does not mean to go to heaven; it does not mean to go to hell; it does not mean to go to purgatory. Indeed, it does not mean to go anywhere at all. It means simply an end of life . . . Death is cessation of life, an absence of life, the exact opposite of life. So in death there is no life. The man does not live; the body does not live; the soul does not live; the spirit does not live; the mind does not live. Intelligence ends, consciousness ends, memory ends, knowledge ends, thought ends. All that has comprised the man ends” (C.B. Haynes When A Man Dies, p. 20).

Is this man still alive? If not, then his eyes have been opened to see what lies he believed.

Ellen G. White, the alleged prophetess who founded the SDA denomination, stated her revulsion of the doctrine of Hell:

“How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell. . . . And how utterly revolting is the belief that as soon as the breath leaves the body the soul of the impenitent is consigned to the flames of hell! . . . the doctrine of natural immortality first borrowed from pagan philosophy, and in the darkness of the great apostasy incorporated into the Christian faith, has supplanted the truth. . . . The theory of eternal torment is one of the false doctrines that constitute the wine of the abomination of Babylon. . . . But those who have not, through repentance and faith, secured pardon, must receive the penalty of transgression  . . . covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion. . . . There will then be no lost souls to blaspheme God as they writhe in never-ending torment; no wretched beings in hell will mingle their shrieks with the songs of the saved.” (The Great Controversy,” pp. 469, 470, 477, 478, 483)

Only those who keep the Sabbath (Seventh Day, Saturday) will be saved

“The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church.” … “The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark.” (Ellen G. White, Evangelism, p. 234).

“Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible.” (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23).

Why don’t Adventists clearly identify themselves when they have “Prophecy Seminars” or health classes?

Jesus once said: “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in a synagogue and in the temple [area], where the Jews [habitually] congregate (assemble); and I have spoken nothing secretly.” Individuals or organizations that operate in secrecy cannot be trusted. When Adventists hold their meetings, aimed primarily at taking members from other churches, they generally do not identify who they are and deftly operate in secrecy. The following is a list of a few Adventist organizations or organizations with very similar beliefs:

  • “It Is Written” television programs and seminars
  • “The Voice of Prophecy” radio programs and seminars
  • “The 5-day Plan to Stop Smoking”
  • “Revelation Seminars”
  • 3ABN TV Network
  • Many “Health Seminars” or “Vegetarian Cooking” classes held at Adventist schools or local churches
  • Adventist hospitals, health centers, clinics, and nursing homes
  • SDA parochial day schools, boarding schools, high schools- also called “Academies” and colleges and universities
  • Loma Linda University is their flagship medical center and world-class medical school
  • Andrew’s University is their seminary in North America
  • “Amazing Facts” radio broadcasts and literature
  • “Amazing Facts” crusades
  • “Light Bearers”

Adventist Publishers:

  • Review & Herald Publishing
  • Pacific Press Publishing
  • Southern Publishing

Seventh-day Adventist magazines often used as Adventist proselytizing tools:

  • Adventist Review
  • Listen
  • Liberty
  • The Signs of the Times

The SDA “Ministry Magazine, is sent out regularly to thousands of Christian pastors and church leaders of other churches despite the fact that they are called “Sunday worshipers” and bearers of the mark of the beast. Don’t be misled by its is slick and evangelical looks, because it contains many useful articles. What your pastor probably doesn’t know is that between every issue he receives is an issue intended only for Adventist pastors. There they debate issues such as how to interpret Ellen G. White, her role and function in the church, the Sabbath, the Investigative Judgment and other Adventist “distinctions” or fundamental Seventh-day Adventist doctrines.

It’s safe to say that the goal of everything the Seventh-day Adventist church does is to advance Adventism around the world and to attempt to make you or your family Seventh-day Adventists. As I’ve already pointed out in the beginning of this comment, there are many disillusioned former DRC members who have abandoned their church and are deceptively and cunningly being recruited to join the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Decide for yourself whether you have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire. I’m pretty sure you know what I mean.

(Emphasis added throughout)

3 comments to SDA Church – Seeking and Finding New Havens of Error and Deceit

  • Sheepdog

    That is a pretty big line up of heresy!
    SDA is a heretical cult.

  • RJ

    Thanks for covering their beliefs on “soul sleep” too… I have an in-law relative who spent her entire life as a SDA, being raised in it from birth (her father was a SDA missionary), and indeed they DO believe in soul sleep.

    Where you quoted Ellen G. White as saying:

    “How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell. . . . And how utterly revolting is the belief that as soon as the breath leaves the body the soul of the impenitent is consigned to the flames of hell! . . . the doctrine of natural immortality first borrowed from pagan philosophy, and in the darkness of the great apostasy incorporated into the Christian faith, has supplanted the truth.

    Oh man, man, man!!!! Well none of us LIKE the idea of an eternal hell either… and for some, that may be the very reason they’ll choose heaven, wake up & realize they’re going to only get there by GOD’S WAY!! {JESUS!!} But just cuz we don’t like it makes it none less real!!

    As far as borrowed from “pagan philosophy”?!! No Ma’am — STRAIGHT FROM THE BIBLE!!

    Revelation 14:11 The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night,…

    There are certainly other Scripture locations describing hell and/or Lake of Fire…so it’s more than an idea, it’s the TRUTH, and yes, it IS revolting… we should not wish it on our worst enemies… It is not God’s will that ANY should perish, and yet most will because they live life on the broad road. They (generally speaking of Americans, but perhaps for the world over..) may add “a little of God” IN to their already overly-busy, overwhelmed lives, but are unwilling to completely submit to Him.

    And sigh, yes sadly — they do believe in working themselves to the bone, “earning” salvation?? Yet you’re right re: their friendliness & warmth & genuine care for others! [I wonder why they’d try so hard to win others — when they don’t even believe there’s a hell?? Just personal observation.]

    Different subject though: What about Psalm 51 where David prayed the Holy Spirit would not be taken from him.

  • Hi RJ Hi/

    You said “But just cuz we don’t like it makes it none less real!!”

    That’s exactly what I thought. So she is telling God how He must handle sinners. Our ways are not God’s ways and God’s ways are certainly not our ways.

    Years ago my mother saw a SDA program on TBN (imagine that) where a SDA preacher had a candle in front of him, he blew out the flame and then implied there is no hell.

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The following conditions does not mean that the authors of Discerning The World permit only opinions that are in agreement with us. This also does not mean that we fear dissenting opinions or ideas that are contrary to the beliefs that we hold (and/or that of the revealed Scriptures of the Holy Bible).

The following describes the Terms and Conditions applicable to your use of the “Comments” submission service at the Discerning the World website.

BY CLICKING THE “POST COMMENT” BUTTON FOR YOUR COMMENT, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND ABIDE BY ALL OF THE RULES AND POLICIES SET FORTH HEREIN. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT SUBMIT YOUR COMMENT TO DISCERNING THE WORLD WEB SITE.

  1. Discerning the World owns and operates the DiscerningtheWorld.com site (the “Site”). Your use of the features on the Site allowing for submission of a “Comment” is subject to the following terms and conditions (the “Terms”). Discerning the World may modify these Terms at any time without notice to you by posting revised Terms on the Site. Your submission of a “Comment” to the Site following the modification of these Terms shall constitute your binding acceptance of and agreement to be bound by those modified Terms.
  2. By submitting a “Comment” you are accepting these Terms through your clicking of the “POST COMMENT” button.
  3. Discerning the World has the right, but not the obligation, to take any of the following actions, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, at any time, and for any reason or no reason, without providing any prior notice:
    1. Restrict, suspend or terminate your ability to submit “Comments,” to the Site;
    2. Change, suspend or modify all or any part of the Site or the features thereof;
    3. Refuse or remove any material posted on, submitted to or communicated through the Site by you;
    4. Deactivate or delete any screen names, profiles or other information associated with you; or
    5. Alter, modify, discontinue or remove any comment off the Site.
  4. You agree that, when using or accessing the Site or any of the features thereof, you will not:
    1. Violate any applicable law or regulation;
    2. Interfere with or damage the Site, through hacking or any other means;
    3. Transmit or introduce to the Site or to other users thereof any viruses, cancel bots, Trojan horses, flood pings, denial of service attacks, or any other harmful code or processes;
    4. Transmit or submit harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, deceptive, fraudulent, obscene, indecent, vulgar, lewd, violent, hateful or otherwise objectionable content or material;
    5. Transmit or submit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or spam;
    6. Stalk or harass any user or visitor to the Site; or
    7. Use the content or information available on the Site for any improper purpose.
  5. You retain the Copyright of any “Comment” you submit to Discerning the World. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to grant Discerning the World a irrevocable, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual license to use the material or commentary that you have submitted, in any medium and in any manner that Discerning the World may, in its sole unfettered discretion, choose.
  6. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to comply with the following rules concerning such submissions:
    1.  You agree not to include in your “Comment”:
      1. Any false, defamatory, libelous, abusive, threatening, racially offensive, sexually explicit, obscene, harmful, vulgar, hateful, illegal, or otherwise objectionable content;
      2. Any content that may be seen as stalking or harassing of any other Site contributors;
      3. Any content that personally attacks an individual. (An example of a personal attack is posting negative comments about an individual in a way meant to demean that person. Note that posting your opinion about someone’s ideas, doctrine or actions is not a personal attack);
      4. Any content that discloses private details concerning any person, for eg., phone numbers that have not been made public, photos that are not in the public domain, residential address that is not public, ID numbers, Social Security numbers, email addresses that are not in the public domain, etc.;
      5. Any content that you know to be false, misleading, or fraudulent;
      6. Any use of profanity;
      7. Any content including advertisements or otherwise focused on the promotion of commercial events or businesses, or any request for or solicitation of money, goods, or services for private gain;
      8. Any content that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment; or
      9. Any content directly or indirectly soliciting responses from minors (defined as anyone under 18 years of age).
  7. FAIR USE NOTICE:
    1. If any part of the “Comment” is not your original work, it is your responsibility to add the name of the third party, name the book with page number or a link (url) to the website where you obtained the information.
    2. Your “Comment” may contain Copyrighted material, the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. You are however allowed to make such material available in your “Comment” in an effort to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc.  This constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this Site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to:http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.
    3. If you wish to use copyrighted material from a website or any other medium for purposes to add to your “Comment” that go beyond ‘fair use’, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. (Fair Use means you may quote from copyrighted sources, but you may not publish the whole article, book, etc., in your “Comment”.)
  8. You are solely responsible for the “Comment” you upload, post, transmit or otherwise make available to others using this Web Site. Under no circumstances will Discerning the World be liable in any way for any “Comment” posted on or made available through this Site by you or any third party.
  9. You understand that all “Comments” on this Site are pre-screened or moderated. That means that every “Comment” needs to be approved by Discerning the World before it appears in the “Comments” section.  This is not an automatic process.  Discerning the World does this for SPAM reasons.
  10. Discerning the World has the right (but not the obligation) in their sole unfettered discretion to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or available through the Site. Without limiting the foregoing, Discerning the World has the right to remove any “Comment” that violates these Terms or is otherwise deemed objectionable by Discerning the World in its sole discretion.
  11. You understand that Discerning the World in their sole unfettered discretion is not obligated and can not be forced in any manner, be it legal or otherwise to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or made available through the Site by you.
  12. When submitting a “Comment,” you will be asked to provide your name and your email address. While Discerning the World does not object to your use of a pseudonym instead of your actual name, Discerning the World reserves the right, but not the obligation, to reject, change, disallow, or discontinue at any time any submission name that, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, is objectionable or inappropriate for any reason. Discerning the World requires the submission of your email address, but Discerning the World warrants that it will not publish your email address to an outside third party without your consent.
  13. Discerning the World does not sell or rent your personal information to third parties for their marketing purposes. From time to time, Discerning the World may contact you personally via email. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you acknowledge and understand that the “Comments” feature of the Site is designed to permit users to post information and commentary for public review and comment and thus you hereby waive any expectation of privacy you may have concerning any likeness or information provided to the Site by you.
  14. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    1. Discerning the World shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor interactions utilizing the “Comments” facility of the Site, between you and other users of or visitors to the Site. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World, or any third party shall not be, and you shall not seek to hold them, responsible for any harm or damage whatsoever arising in connection with your interaction with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    2. Discerning the World does not verify any information posted to or communicated via the “Comments” sections of the Site by users and does not guarantee the proper use of such information by any party who may have access to the information. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World does not assume, and shall not have, any responsibility for the content of messages or other communications sent or received by users of the Site.
  15. The Site contains content created by or on behalf of Discerning the World as well as content provided by third parties.
    1. Discerning the World does not control, and makes no representations or warranties about, any third party content, including such content that may be accessible directly on the Site or through links from the Site to third party sites.
    2. You acknowledge that, by viewing the Site or communications transmitted through the Site, you may be exposed to third party content that is false, offensive or otherwise objectionable to you or others, and you agree that under no circumstances shall Discerning the World be liable in any way, under any theory, for any third party content.
    3. You acknowledge and agree that the Site, and the contents thereof, is proprietary to Discerning the World and is protected by copyright. You agree that you will not access or use the Site or any of the content thereof for any reason or purpose other than your personal, non-commercial use.
    4. You agree that you will not systematically retrieve data or other content from the Site by any means, and you will not compile a database or directory of information extracted from the Site.
    5. You agree that you will not reproduce, distribute or make derivative works of the Site or any of the contents thereof without the express consent of Discerning the World.
    6. You hereby agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless Discerning the World, its affiliates and licensees, and all of their officers, directors, employees, agents and representatives from and against any and all liabilities, losses, claims, damages, and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) in connection with any claim arising out of your use of the Site or violation of any of these Terms.

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY/LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.

  • YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT USE OF THE SITE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. NEITHER DISCERNING THE WORLD, ITS AFFILIATES, NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT THE SITE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, SECURE OR ERROR FREE.
  • THE SITE IS PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO WARRANTIES OF TITLE OR IMLPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
  • THIS DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY APPLIES TO ANY DAMAGES OR INJURY CAUSED BY ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE, ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION, DELETION, DEFECT, DELAY, COMMUNICATION LINE FAILURE, THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO, ALTERATION OF OR USE, WHETHER FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT, TORTIOUS BEHAVIOR, NEGLIGENCE OR UNDER ANY OTHER CAUSE OF ACTION. YOU SPECIFICALLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT DISCERNING THE WORLD SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR THE DEFAMATORY, OFFENSIVE OR ILLEGAL CONDUCT OF USERS OF THE SITE OR THIRD PARTIES, AND THAT THE RISK OF INJURY FROM THE FOREGOING RESTS ENTIRELY WITH THE YOU THE COMMENTER.
  • IN NO EVENT WILL DISCERNING THE WORLD, ITS AFFILIATES OR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS OR LICENSORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, ARISING FROM, RELATING TO OR CONNECTED WITH THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE SITE OR ANY OTHER MATTER ARISING FROM, RELATING TO OR CONNECTED WITH THE SITE OR THESE TERMS.

16. These Terms constitute the entire agreement between Discerning the World and you with respect to the subject matter hereof, and supersede any previous oral or written agreement between us with respect to such subject matter.

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