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The Calvinistic Moral High Ground

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The Calvinistic Moral High Ground

What do you say to someone who usurps the moral high ground and accuses everyone else of being false, blasphemous, heretic, off the track and guilty of offering strange fire when he himself follows a path that is leadingJohn MacArthur thumb The Calvinistic Moral High Ground millions to destruction? (Proverbs 14:12). I suppose the appropriate thing would be to quote to him Matthew 7:1. Nevertheless, I doubt whether that would do any good, particularly when you’re a Calvinist who believes that you are one of the chosen few who must defend the sovereignty of God at all costs, albeit a false and distorted view thereof.

In all my dealings and debates with Calvinists on the internet throughout the years, there is one particular thing they stressed with clockwork precision — the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation and in Providence. No Christian in his right mind would ever want to disparage God’s sovereignty. Calvinists know this very well and have forged it into a formidable weapon to make the unsuspected feel guilty when they do not agree with what they teach. “You are defaming the sovereignty of God” is a phrase I heard so many times when I dared to refute Calvinism from the Word of God.  A former Calvinist who escaped their clutches explained her obsessive compulsion to defend the sovereignty of God at the expense of His other equally important attributes, wrote as follows:

The overarching presupposition, never doubted, was unconditional election. Every scriptural understanding I learned had to coincide with this type of election. As new information entered my mind, it had to fit with my previously constructed framework of thinking. I was synthesizing a spread sheet of theology. I adjusted all doctrines to accommodate election. All my doctrinal entries assembled a system where ‘God sovereignly chooses.’ As one verse was understood more fully, other entries in my data sheet of theology would be adjusted so the whole system seemingly added up. New answers prompted more questions which kept me circulating in this theology. It became a quagmire of logic and rational interpretation without the freshness of the Spirit. One adjustment led to another and another and another and so on. (Read here). (Emphasis added)

John MacArthur, John Calvin’s alter ego – a moral dilemma

A Calvinist who probably deserves to take the moral high ground in ethics and good moral conduct is John MacArthur Jr. This is what one of his most ardent opponents has to say about him:

Before addressing these very weighty questions, let me express my deep appreciation for Pastor MacArthur. He has been in high-profile ministry for decades without a hint of a sexual or monetary scandal. He has been an unashamed witness for Jesus before the world; he has preached the cross and the blood; he has renounced cheap grace and emphasized the importance of the lordship of the Son of God; and he has been a devoted student of the Scriptures.

In all these ways, if we had more leaders like John MacArthur, the church and the world would be in much better shape. (Read here – Charismamag)

This may be a very good testimonial for someone who needs a new job but it means less than zero and zilch when he needs a new life in Christ. In fact, the devil just loves to use men of high moral values to spread his lies. “Oh he is such a nice guy and so pristinely irreproachable in moral conduct. He MUST be a Christian”  Really? “He has been an unashamed witness for Jesus before the world” and “has preached the cross and the blood.” Really? – whilst he unashamedly proclaims that Jesus never loved and never died (shed his blood) for all people? Paul never thought much of men who were held in high esteem.

Moreover, [no new requirements were made] by those who were reputed to be something—though what was their individual position and whether they really were of importance or not makes no difference to me; God is not impressed with the positions that men hold and He is not partial and recognizes no external distinctions—those [I say] who were of repute imposed no new requirements upon me [had nothing to add to my Gospel, and from them I received no new suggestions]. (Galatians 2:6)

Strange Fire

John MacArthur and several other evangelical Christian ministers aim to gather in October at his Sun Valley, Calif., church to take a counteractive stance against what he describes as “strange fire” practices in the charismatic movement.  He says:

“There is a dramatic account of God’s judgment in Leviticus 9 and 10. The people had been ready to worship. They now had priests. They had standards by which they were to come before God and offer Him their worship,” explains MacArthur in one of many promotional videos highlighting areas the conference will touch on. “In the ninth chapter, they came according to God’s law, a sacrifice was offered, and God sent down miraculous fire and consumed the sacrifice. In chapter 10 (verses 1-3), however, another sacrifice was offered, and God consumed the offerers because they violated His standard and offered strange fire.”

MacArthur adds, “But it’s in the context of Leviticus 9 and 10 that I want to direct your attention toward strange fire that’s being offered to God today, and it could well bring His judgment.

“What I’m talking about is the charismatic movement that offers to God unacceptable worship, distorted worship. It blasphemes the Holy Spirit. It attributes to the Holy Spirit even the work of Satan. People are caught up in it, deceived, led astray.”

Read here, if you will.

No doubt, the worship of God other than the prescribed way in Scripture is very dangerous because it is likened to strange fire. Saints are commanded to worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13; 1 John 4:6) and whoever offers strange fire either does not have the Spirit of truth in him (is unsaved) or is saved but worships God in another spirit (2 Corinthians 11:4). Indeed, as MacArthur says and I agree with him, there is a lot of strange fire going on in the charismatic churches. When you type in “Fire of God” on the YouTube search engine a multitude of videos pop-up ranging from Benny Hinn to the so-called holy bartender, Rodney Howard-Brown, to Reinhard Bonnke, to the Bay of Holy Spirit Revival (Nathan Morris, John Kilpatrick, Guilermo Maldonado, Marina and Renny McLean), to as many more so-called prophets and teachers popping up like toadstools throughout the world.

In most cases the word “fire” in the Bible has absolutely nothing to do with blessing, revival, and healing but with judgment, indignation, and wrath. The fire on the altar in Leviticus was an emblem of God’s righteous judgment on sin and anyone who failed to bring the offerings exactly as God commanded him was guilty of misrepresenting God’s holy anger on sin, of whom Nadab and Abihu are examples. Jesus, our Sin-, Trespass-, Peace-, Meal- and Burnt Offering, was consumed by God’s holy fire on the cross and thus bore the full brunt of God’s holy anger and judgment on the sins of every single person who ever lived. God’s righteous judgment on sin was satisfied completely and in its entirety for all people when Jesus cried out with a loud voice “Tetelestai” (It is finished; the payment due to God for our sins was paid in full). No! saith the Calvinists, “Tetelestai” was only for the elect. This, my dear friends, is no less an abomination than the strange fire in charismatic circles. It misrepresents God’s holy consuming fire of anger and judgement on the sin of mankind as a whole when they claim that God’s holy consuming fire fell only partially on his Son Jesus Christ because He allegedly only died for the sins of the elect. Mr MacArthur, you are just as guilty of offering strange fire to God as the charismatic fraternity and therefore Matthew 7:1 can be applied to you with ease because you are misrepresenting God’s holy anger and judgement on sin in the very same way as did Nadab and Abihu.

The evidence for strange fire in Calvinism does not stop here. There is more to come.

Mind Control

Calvinism and the Charismatic Word of Faith Movement espouse similar views in regard to the function and role of the mind which is the seat of man’s free-will. In fact, both want you to check your mind at the door because a free-willy mind, as Calvinists refer to it, supposedly dishonours and demeans God’s sovereignty. In their zeal to uphold and defend God’s sovereignty they have fallen prey to a type of mind control. It is a self-imposed form of mind control because the deceived person aggressively and defiantly refuses to believe that he/she has a free will, even to the extent that they tell themselves that any shape or form of free-will is blasphemy and idolatry. Adolf Hitler said: “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.” If you keep on telling yourself that free-will is a thing of the devil, anti-God and Anti-Christ, blasphemous and idolatrous you will eventually believe it. No wonder Satan has chosen the mind as his battleground and does everything in his power to fasten his strongholds of lies in the mind.

A former Calvinist, Brenda Nickel, who had been in the grip of Calvinism for fourteen years explains it thus:

This insidious elitist attitude, pervasive within Calvinism, occurred without my notice. Mind control, operating by stealth, implanted these ideas through mere suggestion, deepening them with a false and superficial knowledge, to hold me both willingly and unwillingly. On one level I knew something was wrong, yet on another level, things appeared correct. The resulting confusion prompted queries, but sadly in the case of Calvinism, the answers were sought from the very people who imbedded the deception in the first place. (Read here).

Mind control is as prevalent in the Word of Faith Movement as it is in Calvinism although in the latter it is more subtle and therefore more dangerous. Whereas the Calvinist rejects outright mind control methods such as slain in the spirit, exceedingly long musical praise and worship sessions, shouting, uncontrollable shaking, speaking in tongues etc., they very effectively shut out the mind (the seat of man’s free-will) by bullying themselves and other dupes into a mind-set that tells them they have no free-will. Some Calvinists even go so far to say that man is not capable of choosing between good an evil and that life is nothing but a bizarre interplay of choices you make between two or more different kinds of evil. In fact the choices you make are merely your uncontrollable responses to the choices God Himself made for you in your behalf before the foundation of the world. RC Sproul explains it as follows:

“I no longer feared the demons of fatalism or the ugly thought that I was being reduced to a puppet. Now I rejoiced in a gracious Savior who alone was immortal, invisible, the only wise God. (Chosen By God, p.13, emphasis mine)

“This statement [The Westminster Confession of Faith: ““God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: . . .”] refers to God’s eternal and immutable decretive will. It applies to everything that happens. Does this mean that everything that happens is the will of God? Yes.” (What is Reformed Theology?, p.172, emphasis mine)

“Predestination seems to cast a shadow on the very heart of human freedom. If God has decided our destinies from all eternity, that strongly suggests that our free choices are but charades, empty exercises in predetermined playacting. It is as though God wrote the script for us in concrete and we are merely carrying out his scenario.” (Chosen by God, p.51, emphasis mine)

As long as you espouse these ideas you will have no need to “press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus”, and have no need to persevere to the end (although Calvinists believe they ought to), because you have been reduced to a puppet with God pulling and manipulating the strings as He sovereignly wills. If God wrote the immutable script for our lives before the foundation of the world it follows that the misuse of our free-will to choose only between two or more forms of evil was indelibly and permanently written into that script. Therefore, we are prisoners of our own choices between two or more forms of evil and henceforth we will never be able to choose between good and evil, good and bad, true and false, righteousness and unrighteousness.

Charismatics who have fallen under the spirit and have been infused with the so-called fire of God are under the very same bondage as the Calvinist who believes he has no free-will. Charismatics lose control over their own bodies and minds when they do all kinds of uncontrollable movements or lay on the floor for hours on end as slain in the spirit victims of Satan. As exposed by DTW, Andrew Strom has not been delivered from the false fire in the Charismatic Church (See here). However, the footage in the video presents us with a good example of the false fire in the Charismatic Church throughout the world.

One cannot say this of Calvinists who soberly resist and reject these kinds of manipulative shenanigans but the result is the very same – they lose control over their own minds as Brenda Nickel experienced while she was in bondage to Calvinism: “Mind control, operating by stealth, implanted these ideas through mere suggestion, deepening them with a false and superficial knowledge, to hold me both willingly and unwillingly.” Please note how she describes the bondage; she defines it as being both willing and unwilling at the same time – unwilling to listen to the well-meant exhortations of other Christians and willing to be led astray by the lies of her former peers. Charismatics are in bondage to the very same spirit but in their case is is not called Calvinism but the “fire of God.”

The False Fire of Limited Atonement

The false fire of limited atonement is not limited to Calvinism. The Charismatic movement has its own form of limited atonement but theirs is linked to the speaking in tongues phenomenon and not the sovereignty of God. Whereas Calvinists assert that the atonement of Jesus Christ is limited to the elect, the Charismatics believe that it is limited to those who speak in tongues because it allegedly is the evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost and salvation. Although some reformed theologians tenaciously defend the sovereignty of God in salvation, they  have now come out of the closet in favor of  the charismatics’ understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and openly call themselves Reformed Charismatics. They seem to be keen to marry the sovereignty of God in salvation with the charismatic view of the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit, especially the gift of speaking in tongues. They believe that regeneration precedes faith but alongside this, they say, the spirit of God is free to work as He pleases in the lives of God’s saints, including the speaking in tongues. The ACRC (Association of Reformed Charismatic Churches) was established to facilitate a working relationship between churches who are both reformed and charismatic in their spiritual outlook.

The question that may be burning in your mind right now, is: Do Calvinist Charismatics speak in tongues? Well, maybe this will give you an idea of what’s happening in Reformed Charismatic circles right now. On July 29th 2011 John Piper said on Twitter, “God humbles Charismatics by making their children Calvinists; and Calvinists by making their children speak in tongues.” Some say he spoke this in jest (“jest” is not a foreign language). The fact is, he was dead serious because Pentecostalism and Charismania have gained a strong foothold in reformed theology.

John Piper invited Tope Koleoso to be one of the key note speakers at their Desiring God 2013 Conference for Pastors which gives a clear indication how far Charismania has already influenced a very large contingent of reformed theologians. It is interesting to note that John Piper chose Koleoso’s theme for him to speak on, which was “How should a Reformed Pastor be Charismatic?” Is this not one of the main reasons why John MacArthur and other reformed theologians are so desperate to take a counteractive stance against the strange fire in Charismatic circles during their scheduled conference in October this year?

Tope Koleoso thumb The Calvinistic Moral High GroundWho is Tope Koleoso? He is the lead pastor of Jubilee Church in London. In 1995 he moved to Enfield to help plant Jubilee. From 2004, Tope has led the team of elders. He is responsible for preaching and vision. Tope is also involved in planting and supporting other churches internationally. The most alarming fact about Koleoso is that he hails two of the most influential figures in the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) as his mentors on whose soldiers he says he stands. They are Jack Hayford and Terry Virgo. Last but not least, he also mentions John Piper as one of his spiritual mentors. It is not too difficult to add up two plus two to see how he manages to marry the reformed and charismatic traditions.

Jack Hayford has no qualms to associate with the most notorious false teachers of our day. He appeared with John Wimber, Peter Wagner (the head apostle of the entire Charismatic movement who decreed in the above video that Todd Bentley’s power, authority, favour and influence would increase . . . and then he fell flat on his behind), Vinson Synan and Paul Yonggi Cho at Lausanne II in Manila, the Philippines, in 1989 to discuss the progress, resources, and methods of evangelizing the world. (Read here). They are not evangelizing the world for Christ Jesus. They are preparing it to be initiated into Antichrist’s false religion of peace, health, wealth, prosperity and false signs and wonders. Jack Hayford also attended the Fast for Revival Conference at Bill Bright’s Campus Crusade for Christ in December 1994 where Robert Schuller, Charles Colson, E.V. Hill, James Dobson, W.A. Criswell, Charles Stanley, Paul Crouch, Luis Palau, Bill Palau, Bill Gothard, Pat Robertson, Jay Arthur and Larry Burkett played a prominent role (Read here). During the Jerusalem Celebration 2000 in February 1996 where Robert Schuller was featured Jack Hayford, Paul Yonggi Cho and C Peter Wagner was also in attendance. Schuller’s 1996 autobiography, “My Soul’s Adventure with God,” was endorsed by Jack Hayford, John Wimber and popular Southern Baptist leader W.A. Criswell (See more here). Jack Hayford is also involved with Promise Keepers (Read here).

Terry Virgo, another one of Tope Koleoso’s mentors, is one of the leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)/Latter Rain Movement (Joel’s Army) run by C Peter Wagner and Chuck Pierce. These modern day prophets insist that the church be governed by them on the structure of the Ephesians 4:11  FiveFold Ministry – with absolute authority (See more here). Some may argue that the mere association with false teachers and your appearance with them on the same charismatic platforms do not make you guilty of false teaching. However, when you admire them and hail them as your mentors on whose shoulders you stand, it become a whole new kettle of fish. Indeed, it really begins to smell very fishy. “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” (Amos 3:3). The obvious answer is, no, they can’t!

John MacArthur has no assurance of his salvation and yet lambasts the Charismatics for their strange fire (false conversions)?

In an interview Phil Johnson had with John MacArthur, John explained his conversion as follows:

phil johnson The Calvinistic Moral High Ground

Phil Johnson

PHIL:  So you’re saying . .  . are you saying it would be difficult for you to put your finger on when your conversion took place?

JOHN:  Yeah.  I’ve never been able to do that.  And it doesn’t bother me.  I think I’m one of those kids . . . I was one of those kids that never rebelled and always believed.  And so when God did His saving work in my heart, it was not discernable to me.  I went away to high school and for all I knew, I loved Christ, I was part of the ministry of the church.  I went away to college and I wanted to serve the Lord and honor the Lord.  I was certainly immature.  But at some point along the line, I really do believe there was a transformation in my heart, but I think it may have been to some degree imperceptible to me because I didn’t ever have a rebellious time, I didn’t ever revolt against, you know, the gospel or not believe.  And I guess that’s . . . in some ways that’s a grace act on God’s part.  So that all that wonderful training found some level of fertile soil in my heart and none of it was wasted. [Thomas says: Calvinists don’t agree among themselves. Paul Washer says: “Since every man is radically depraved, they all hate God. they all blaspheme Him, walk away and go to hell. The whole world goes to hell.” – See more at Discerning the World. Washer says John MacArthur is/was radically depraved, hated God and blasphemed him. No no Mr. Washer, you’ve got it all wrong, saith John MacArthur. “I never rebelled against God and always believed. I never blasphemed God or walked away from Him.” Well,  at least some Calvinists weren’t so radically depraved as Washer said. I commented on Phil Johnson’s site and mentioned to him how similar John MacArthur’s testimony is to the prayer of the Pharisee in Luke 18:11. He never published my comment. W hat does that tell you? Phil Johnson agrees with John MacArthur’s testimony.]

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/80-33 and click here to listen to John Macarthur’s Non-Conversion Statement

I’m sure John wouldn’t mind if I dramatized his conversion a wee bit. The Holy Spirit whom Jesus sent to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment hovered over John MacArthur and said:

Jesus was sent to seek and to find the lost and I am sent to convict them of their sins and lost status before the Lord. But this guy! Wow, this guy is an extraordinary exception. I don’t need to convince him that he is a lost sinner on his way to hell cause he’d never been lost and on his way to hell.

Praise the Lord, he has always been one of those rare wiz kids who never rebelled and always believed, despite the fact that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” This makes it so much easier for me to save him. I will monergistically zap him into a state of regeneration without him having to know what really happened to him. His salvation won’t be discernable to him.The only real discernable proof that he is saved will be his love for Jesus Christ, a love so infinitely and profoundly deep that he will start preaching that Jesus does not love all people in a saving way. In fact , he will boldly proclaim the reasons why God does not love everyone savingly: “He will tell people: “Why did God choose not to love everyone like that? I’ll give you a good guess, and maybe not a guess. The reason God did not choose to love everyone savingly, is because the love of God is qualified and controlled by his glory . . . by His GLORY!” 

I have never come across anyone with such a deep-seated love for Jesus Christ  as John MacArthur, so intensely deep that he’s prepared to tell the world that God does not love all people with saving grace. Wow! Heaven needs more preachers like John MacArthur.

Calvinists like John MacArthur, Paul Washer and Justin Peters are quick to take the moral high ground when they judge the Pentecostal, Charismatic and Word of Faith Movements as being of the devil while they blindly proclaim one of the most dangerous deceptions in all the history of mankind – CALVINISM (TULIP). May God have mercy on their pitiful souls.

pixel The Calvinistic Moral High Ground

18 comments to The Calvinistic Moral High Ground

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >> John Piper said on Twitter, “God humbles Charismatics by making their children Calvinists; and Calvinists by making their children speak in tongues.” Some say he spoke this in jest (“jest” is not a foreign language).

    ROTFL Bwwahahahahahaha

  • Sharon

    Great article there Thomas. When I grow up I want to write stuff just like you! :o)
    It is sad to read MacArthur’s “salvation statement”. He is in good (bad) company since John Calvin and Augustine’s statements are basically the same.

  • Jean

    What do you say to someone who usurps the moral high ground and accuses everyone else of being false, blasphemous, heretic, off the track and guilty of offering strange fire when he himself follows a path that is leading millions to destruction? (Proverbs 14:12). I suppose the appropriate thing would be to quote to him Matthew 7:1. Nevertheless, I doubt whether that would do any good, particularly when you’re an Arminian who believes that Jesus is not capable of carrying out the will of the Father and saving all the Father gives Him.

    I hope God forgives you one day for your bashing of Christians.

  • Jean wrote:

    I hope God forgives you one day for your bashing of Christians.

    I pray that God forgives you for having no fear of God and no regret that Calvinism is leading multitudes to hell.

    And he said unto his disciples, It is impossible but that occasions of stumbling should come; but woe unto him, through whom they come! (Luke 17:1).

    Isn’t it ironic? You accuse me of bashing others. But isn’t that what Calvinists are doing when they say God does not love everyone? That’s the worst kind of bashing imaginable.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jean

    >> particularly when you’re an Arminian who believes that Jesus is not capable of carrying out the will of the Father and saving all the Father gives Him.

    Who’s an arminian? Certainly no one here! Shame you bit into that lie too. When are you going to stop falling for them Calvinist lies. Calvinists seem to think that everyone that is not a Calvinist is Arminian LOL, this is the joke of the century. No Jean, no.

  • Sharon

    Here we go again with the “judge not” stuff. What do you do with this verse?
    John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    Then we have Pauls statement about judging.
    Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

    Jean the difference here is we are to judge certain things. I could not judge Deborah for being drunk all the time if I am drunk all the time. (Neither of us drink alcohol)

    Now when it comes to the issue of false doctrine we are to go way beyond and use that “Righteous Judgment” in John 7:24. Calvinist doctrine is FALSE, UNTRUE, UNTRUSTWORTHY, SOUL DAMNING, PRIDE RETAINING, SCRIPTURE TWISTING, ARROGANT, AND IT’S “FOUNDERS” (Augustine & Calvin) ARE MOST LIKELY IN HELL!

    I just used righteous judgment. I’m sure you did not like my judging but I did not judge YOU. I have an opinion that you are terribly deceived, but that is not judgment.

    Deb has stated that you have fallen for the old line, “if they aren’t Calvinist then they have to be Arminian. NO, NO, and NO. I have studied very little about Jacob Arminius. Couldn’t really tell much about him or his belief system. He came up with this own little retort to Calvins TULIP. I prefer the Word of God, not some creed, name of a flower, all which have the potential to be and some are, dangerous to the soul that needs Jesus.

    I am a blood bought, born again Daughter of the Most High God. I am a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I did nothing to deserve or earn my salvation. He saved me and keeps me saved. I am unashamedly a Baptist by conviction. I also believe that God is Sovereign not because Calvin said so, but because God’s word says so. Man having free-will doesn’t diminish the Sovereignty of God at all.

    Calvinists stand overly firm on God being Sovereign that way the Calvinist can blame their sin on God because he willed it from before the foundation of the World. That’s blasphemy! Calvinist have forgotten the love and mercy of God. I’m sad for people that are deceived like you and my best friend of 54 years.

    Jean wrote:

    What do you say to someone who usurps the moral high ground and accuses everyone else of being false, blasphemous, heretic, off the track and guilty of offering strange fire when he himself follows a path that is leading millions to destruction? (Proverbs 14:12). I suppose the appropriate thing would be to quote to him Matthew 7:1. Nevertheless, I doubt whether that would do any good, particularly when you’re an Arminian who believes that Jesus is not capable of carrying out the will of the Father and saving all the Father gives Him.

    I hope God forgives you one day for your bashing of Christians.

  • Sharon

    Hey Deb-ster, did you notice the jesture John Mac is doing in his picture above? It is a “Freemason” signal. I have an article some where about that jesture. If I can find it, I’ll post it. There are a lot of Freemasons that are Calvinist…….I wonder why hmmmmmmmmm.

  • Marius

    To think that the grace of God that justifies is so belittled by your condemming views on other Christians. It seems that you think Jesus is sitting at the edge of His chair hoping this will all work out, becaus He is hoping we will come to Him, and He is actually losing the battle if you look at the world anyway. If the creator of the universe cannot save who He wants to, I suppose we are all in trouble, because then we must rely on our own strength for salvation. The problem is that almost every Calvinist will tell you there are primary and secondary issues. Primary is the fact that only faith in Jesus and His perfect work on the cross can save us. That is free grace. God is no inspector with a clip board ticking off who has it exactly right, and then saves who meets the standard. When He saves us and our hearts are inclined to do His will that is The work of the Holy spirit. Full stop. The question is: what happens when you pray? There where nobody but you and God is present. What is your motive? That Jesus is your saviour, and that you need Him so much as you realise how much He has done on the cross, or do you spend your time looking for everybody elses “errors”( not JW or mormon tipes of error), and not realise how much you are actually doing to make others stumble, who might be new in the faith. If Calvin and Luther was so bad, why did they try and be so faithfull to scripture and have such a passion for lost souls. Their focus was on the primary issue, and they relied on the Holy spirit to convict of the rest. Stop condemming everybody who might differ on certain issues. Are we not more of a stumbling block than anything else?

  • Marius wrote:

    The problem is that almost every Calvinist will tell you there are primary and secondary issues. Primary is the fact that only faith in Jesus and His perfect work on the cross can save us. That is free grace.

    You obviously do not know what Calvinists believe. Faith UNTO salvation plays no part in the Calvinists’ frame of mind. They say man is totally depraved and dead in sin and transgressions and therefore CANNOT believe of his own free-will to be saved. Therefore God has to sovereignly and monergistically regenerate ONLY the elect and then, AFTER their salvation, give them the faith they need to believe in Him. How on earth can anyone, including Calvin, have had a passion for souls when he believed that God sovereignly chose some to suffer an eternity in hell while the elect never had a snowball’s hope in hell of ever going to hell? Why do you need a passion for lost souls when you believe that some are going to heaven and others to hell at any rate, because God chose it to be so? You must be kidding.

  • Marius wrote

    To think that the grace of God that justifies is so belittled by your condemming views on other Christians. It seems that you think Jesus is sitting at the edge of His chair hoping this will all work out,

    What did Jesus mean when He said: “Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God”? (Isa 49:4)

    I think you are being a little hypocritical when you say you have a passion for lost souls. On whose lost souls do you have compassion – the elect who CANNOT be lost because they’ve been saved (God’s sheep) before the foundation of the world or the non-elect who CANNOT be saved because they’ve been lost (the devil’s goats) before the foundation of the world?

    Marius wrote:

    That Jesus is your saviour, and that you need Him so much as you realise how much He has done on the cross, or do you spend your time looking for everybody elses “errors”( not JW or mormon tipes of error), and not realise how much you are actually doing to make others stumble, who might be new in the faith.

    Why do you support the doctrines of Calvinism when they are the culprits who are making so many people stumble into hell?

    Would you say that the non-elect whom God chose to be punished in hell before the foundation of the world, also need Jesus to be their Saviour?

  • Sharon

    God does have a “clipboard” He does expect us to “get it right.”

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    The clipboards message is to “rightly divide” the Word. Since we are very human we will make some mistakes. There are so many things to learn and know in scripture that I doubt that any Christian has ever gotten everything correct.

    BUT…the doctrine, teaching, way of salvation is so very plain that even a child can understand.
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jesus said that he is the WAY. While the lost man walks through this life there is Jesus pleading, “this way, come this way.” Jesus makes the offer of providing the WAY to our Father God. Jesus doesn’t holler, ” no sorry, you’re not one of the chosen. Hey you over there, come on this way because you were chosen before the foundation of the world.” NO!!! Jesus beckons out to ALL, I AM THE WAY, I AM THE TRUTH & YOU WILL NOT SEE THE FATHER UNLESS YOU CPOME THIS WAY.”

    When my son way only 8 years old, he understand that and asked the Lord to forgive him of his sins and to save him. When my daughter was 8 she did the same.

    While the true gospel is Glorious and Wonderful it is also simple. It is men from 1500 years ago, Augustine who took this belief from the gnostics, not the true scriptures. Calvin got his 1500 year old poison and treason of the true gospel from a Catholic mystic.

    We must “choose us this day (the day of our salvation) who we will serve. Will we believe in Gnosticism and Catholicism (same thing) or will we respond to the beckoning of our Savior Jesus Christ as he says, Come over here, I am the way. I chose Jesus Christ.

    Marius wrote:

    To think that the grace of God that justifies is so belittled by your condemming views on other Christians. It seems that you think Jesus is sitting at the edge of His chair hoping this will all work out, becaus He is hoping we will come to Him, and He is actually losing the battle if you look at the world anyway. If the creator of the universe cannot save who He wants to, I suppose we are all in trouble, because then we must rely on our own strength for salvation. The problem is that almost every Calvinist will tell you there are primary and secondary issues. Primary is the fact that only faith in Jesus and His perfect work on the cross can save us. That is free grace. God is no inspector with a clip board ticking off who has it exactly right, and then saves who meets the standard. When He saves us and our hearts are inclined to do His will that is The work of the Holy spirit. Full stop. The question is: what happens when you pray? There where nobody but you and God is present. What is your motive? That Jesus is your saviour, and that you need Him so much as you realise how much He has done on the cross, or do you spend your time looking for everybody elses “errors”( not JW or mormon tipes of error), and not realise how much you are actually doing to make others stumble, who might be new in the faith. If Calvin and Luther was so bad, why did they try and be so faithfull to scripture and have such a passion for lost souls. Their focus was on the primary issue, and they relied on the Holy spirit to convict of the rest. Stop condemming everybody who might differ on certain issues. Are we not more of a stumbling block than anything else?

  • Ricardo

    If not for those eeevil hell bound folks who believe in the bondage of the will and the predestination of the Saints based on no conditions, we would never have even had the reformation. Is Luther hell-bound because he observed that “free-will” is a thing that does not exist? Is John Knox, that great preacher and reformer, and a Calvinist, going to hell because he fought long and hard for Christ in Scotland? What about Spurgeon? Is he going to hell because he said that free-will does not exist?

    I’ve never quite understood the hatred that people have to the doctrines of grace. Is it really so offensive when Jesus said, “There are some of you that believe not… Therefore I said unto you, no man can come unto me unless it is given unto him by my Father”? And even if you dislike these doctrines, why accuse the foundations of Protestantism of being born in heresy?

    Most of you folks don’t even comprehend what Calvinists actually teach, and instead build up so many strawmen that it is incredible to behold. Instead of pounding so heavy on the hate, and accusing others of being hateful, you should maybe try reading Luther’s “On the Bondage of the Will,” or Jonathan Edward’s treaties on Free-will, or perhaps Spurgeon’s own sermons on the matter. Actually take the time to get to know actual arguments of your opponents before going on these horrid rants.

  • Ricardo wrote:

    If not for those eeevil hell bound folks who believe in the bondage of the will and the predestination of the Saints based on no conditions, we would never have even had the reformation. Is Luther hell-bound because he observed that “free-will” is a thing that does not exist? Is John Knox, that great preacher and reformer, and a Calvinist, going to hell because he fought long and hard for Christ in Scotland? What about Spurgeon? Is he going to hell because he said that free-will does not exist?

    If free-will does not exist then we should tear our several Holy Spirit inspired passages from Scripture.

    And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

    You are invited to take of the Living Water freely of your own free-will. No one, least of all Jesus Christ, is going to force open your mouth and pour the Living Water down your throat without you really wanting it.

    And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Jos 24:15)

    You have the free-will to choose which ever god or gods you want to follow and serve. The God of the Bible is not going to force you to follow and serve Him. The Calvinist god is NOT the God of the Bible but another god who loves only some elitist and predestined elect persons.

    Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.(Deu 11:26-28)

    You have been given the free-will to either choose the curse or the blessing God has placed before you. Either you repent and receive his pardon through faith in Jesus Christ and the eternal blessing that goes with it, or you reject his pardon through faith in Jesus Christ and the eternal curse that goes along with it. You see, God will never choose in your behalf. That’s not grace; it is downright coercion.

    Ricardo wrote:

    I’ve never quite understood the hatred that people have to the doctrines of grace.

    It’s because you do not know what true grace is. You think grace is when God intervenes sovereignly and monergistically to regenerate the so-called elect without them having to have faith and without them knowing it. That’s not grace. It is downright coercion. Calvinists are the ones who hate God’s true grace and mercy and has changed it into hatred for the so-called non-elect. Want to know what true grace and mercy is?

    For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,(Tit 2:11)

    Ricardo wrote:

    Most of you folks don’t even comprehend what Calvinists actually teach, and instead build up so many strawmen that it is incredible to behold.”

    Do you know what Calvinists really teach? I don’t think so. Answer me one question: Does God only love some people and hate the rest? If you do believe that He only loves the elect and hates the rest, you not only do not comprehend what Calvinism actually teaches; you also do not know the God of the Bible and that, my friend, is very dangerous.

    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.(Joh 17:3)

    I don’t have to study what Luther, Jonathan Edwards and Spurgeon said about man’s free-will. I already know what they taught. What interests me most is what the Bible says about free-will and it definitely does not say it is in bondage or is non-existent. Do you really think Jesus would extend such a magnanimous invitation to all men when man does not have a free will?

    Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Mat 11:28-30)

    I suggest that you renounce the lies of Calvinism and come to Jesus for your salvation. But then again, you must know that you are heavy-laden with sin before you can do that. Only those who know they are sick will visit a physician.

  • Sharon

    Are they going to hell is present tense. They are in one place or the other. Since they lived a few hundred years ago they are where they will spend eternity.
    1. Martin Luther, what did he “reform” in the Catholic system of belief in which he stayed? He believed that the keeping of the “sacraments” were essential to salvation. That is heresy. He hated Jews and believed they should be persecuted and their private property be confiscated. He believed in “infant baptism” which is not in scripture any where. Jesus wasn’t even baptized as a baby. So every thing Martin Luther railed about in the Catholic belief system is still done today and even worse. What did he “reform”?

    2. John Calvin, he was an unrepentant murderer of approximately 50 people and the most notorious was Servetus. Calvin spent the rest of his life trying to justify advocating his burning him at the stake. Calvin believed in infant baptism and it was a “right owed to them by their parents.” Again, like Martin Luther, they kept this very Catholic belief. John Calvin believed also that the keeping of the sacraments were essential to a persons salvation. John Calvin hated the Pope and yet he earned the name for himself of “The Pope of Geneva.” He was a cruel tyrant and seemed to enjoy the burnings or beheadings of any who disagreed with him. His only true friend was a Roman Catholic Priest. Read the two “salvation statements” of John Calvin. There is no repentance over sin. No godly sorrow. Jesus Christ is NOT mentioned at all.

    3. John Knox, I confess I do not know a lot about the one called “The Thundering Scotsman.” I do know Mary Queen of Scots, a Catholic, feared him. So that is a good thing. I also know he preached at the Coronation of the young man King James VI & I.

    4. Jonathan Edwards, there to I confess I don’t know a lot about him other than his message, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” At the amount of people that RECEIVED Jesus Christ and the revival that followed I figure Jonathan Edwards was saved. He did deny free-will and he CHOSE to believe that there wasn’t free-will. :o) Great men of God are not always 100% in what they believe.

    5. Charles Haddon Spurgeon. He suffered from depression as do I. He smoked Blackstone Cigars. I like cigars but I don’t smoke. It is estimated that he won over a million souls to Jesus Christ. Spurgeon professed to be a Calvinist and yet struggled with this false teaching of “limited atonement.” He pastor and he was also an evangelist. He knew in his heart that Christ died for all or why else bother to evangelized to people that the majority would be lost anyway.

    Who are we as mere humans to limit the great love of God? Who are we to say that the God who created ALL things, ALL people for His pleasure that He can’t love all of us because WE say so?

    I do not care what any of those men above personally believed about Jesus Christ. I just know that Calvin added to the word and took away from the word to twist, cut, and paste to come up with his false beliefs. He took his ideas from the Catholic mystic Augustine, added to these pagan ideas of Augustine and then decided that God doesn’t love the majority of His creation.

    I do not hate the true doctrine of grace. I reject Calvin’s twisted interpretation of grace. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. It truly is the gift of God. God offers the gift; he doesn’t zap us by throwing the gift at us. He offers, we respond to the wooing of the Holy Spirit and then by faith receive the gift.

    My God, whose name is the Great “I AM” loves all of we mere humans. Did he love those that rejected the gift od His Son and are now and will be in hell? Yes, he did love them up until the rejection. Then there was no more God could do when the rejecter died. It isn’t that Jesus was a failure as Calvinists teach. It is that those who reject are “without excuse.”

    Ricardo wrote:

    If not for those eeevil hell bound folks who believe in the bondage of the will and the predestination of the Saints based on no conditions, we would never have even had the reformation. Is Luther hell-bound because he observed that “free-will” is a thing that does not exist? Is John Knox, that great preacher and reformer, and a Calvinist, going to hell because he fought long and hard for Christ in Scotland? What about Spurgeon? Is he going to hell because he said that free-will does not exist?

    I’ve never quite understood the hatred that people have to the doctrines of grace. Is it really so offensive when Jesus said, “There are some of you that believe not… Therefore I said unto you, no man can come unto me unless it is given unto him by my Father”? And even if you dislike these doctrines, why accuse the foundations of Protestantism of being born in heresy?

    Most of you folks don’t even comprehend what Calvinists actually teach, and instead build up so many strawmen that it is incredible to behold. Instead of pounding so heavy on the hate, and accusing others of being hateful, you should maybe try reading Luther’s “On the Bondage of the Will,” or Jonathan Edward’s treaties on Free-will, or perhaps Spurgeon’s own sermons on the matter. Actually take the time to get to know actual arguments of your opponents before going on these horrid rants.

    It is because I do understand this mere man named John Calvin that I now ask you Ricardo, if you stood before God today and he said, “Ricardo, why should I let you into heaven”? What would you say? Could you say in truth, I received your Son as my Savior by faith and then hear, come on home my son.

    Or would you say, I believed in the gospel of John Calvin, I believed you elected me and forced your grace upon me and I could not resist it. What would God say to that?

    Peace to you Ricardo, His peace.

  • Truth Preacher

    First, I certainly WOULD “disparage” the “sovereignty of God” because that doctrine is a doctrine of devils. So I preach GOD IS NOT SOVEREIGN AND GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL. And I can PROVE IT BIBLICALLY. Therefore we need not fall prey to these blasphemers, who Paul would kick out of his churches, or their tactics. God is a King, a Ruler, and SUSTAINS ALL THINGS. He isn’t “sovereign” over them, nor does He “control” things. Such is blasphemy. It then puts ALL BLAME ON GOD FOR ALL THINGS THAT HAPPEN.

    John Piper has said and taught SO MANY STUPID THINGS over his life as a religious leader, that I have concluded that the man is plain stupid, and must be exposed to be exactly that. God does not “humble” Charismatics by making their children Calvinists! The Devil makes them Calvinists and RUINS THEM! Calvinism is the WORST DOCTRINE OF DEVILS TO EVER COME DOWN THE PIKE, AND GOD HATES AND ABHORS CALVINISM.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    TP

    >> First, I certainly WOULD “disparage” the “sovereignty of God” because that doctrine is a doctrine of devils. So I preach GOD IS NOT SOVEREIGN AND GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL.

    God is Sovereign, He is so Sovereign that He gave mankind FREE-WILL that that may choose or reject His Son Jesus Christ.

  • Sheugnet

    I utterly reject the way the writer of this article ‘dramatized’ the words of John MacArthur. You are a deceiver Sir, and instead of writing for a christian blog you should try acting on stage. There you will be able to be even more entertaining than what you are trying to be on this blog.

  • Sheugnet

    You should rather utterly reject someone’s testimony claiming that he has never rebelled and has always believed. John MacArthur is denying his own belief in total depravity. To have never rebelled and always believed does NOT amount to total depravity. MacArthur is a religious charlatan.

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