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Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers

Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers
Mighty Men Conference 2009

Mighty Men Conference 2009

“God is looking for men, and for women, for boys and girls, that will change the world!   THE WORLD!   Waiting!   All creation is waiting with expectation, on tip toes, FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD!    That’s you and me.”    Angus Buchan Sermon, Hillcrest Christian Fellowship, 1 June 2008,     – Starts from 1H:08M:06S

Mighty Men, Promise Keepers, Men of Promise:

  • Dominionism / Kingdom Now / Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God
  • Roots based in Roman Catholicism – Emergent Church
  • Joel’s army, creating a Christian Army (supposedly God’s army)
  • Zion movement – Israel is the Church
    • Twisting of Joel 2  – Church needs to return to Israel to fight for Holy Land
  • Ecumenical, Interfaith / Unity among all ‘Christian’ groups/churches no matter what they believe.
    • Involves people like Roman Catholics priests, 7th Day Adventists to Mormons and their clergy and laymen.
  • Contemplative Spirituality (Mysticism, Meditation, Spiritual Awakenings, Centering Prayer, Breathing, Yoga, You are god, Illumination,etc.)
  • Unite men in a great universal association
  • Universal equality – socialism of some kind
  • Brotherhood:  Freemasonry, Secretive, Vows, Promises
  • Charity
  • Gnosticism (Jewish mysticism)
  • Accountability to men for support

About Promise Keepers [1]

StandintheGap-PromiseKeepersObeliskPromise Keepers’ mission is to to ignite and unite men to become warriors who will change their world through living out the Seven Promises.  Promise Keepers’ vision is simply put in three words: “Men Transformed Worldwide.”

Based in Denver, Colorado, Promise Keepers has directly reached more than five and a half million men since its founding in 1990.

Multitudes more have been reached through books, music CDs, multi-media resources, the Internet, satellite and radio broadcasts.

← In 1997, an estimated one million men gathered on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. for “Stand in the Gap,” marking arguably the largest gathering of Christian men in modern U.S. history.

“Stand in the Gap was held before the Washington Monument (an obelisk), which was built and dedicated by masons. That Monument is the United States’ most obvious Masonic, phallic symbol. The obelisk is the Masonic symbol of a male sex organ or phallus, and originates out of Baal worship, and sun and serpent worship”.   http://www.seekgod.ca/nonew.htm

  History of Promise Keepers  [2]

“Way back before Promise Keepers had a name, we looked up the word integrity in Webster’s Dictionary.  He gave six definitions: ‘utter sincerity, honesty, candor, not artificial, not shallow, no empty promises.’” — Bill McCartney

“We have a great army that we are assembling…”  Bill McCartney, Clergy Conference at Atlanta, on April 29, 1995

BillMcCartney-PromiseKeepersObeliskThe name “Promise Keepers” also derives from the covenant that God fulfilled through Jesus Christ.  In Christ, God kept all the promises that he made to mankind and we rely upon God as the original Promise Keeper to keep our promises.

March 20, 1990: The Birth of an Idea

Bill McCartney, then football coach for the University of Colorado, and Dave Wardell, Ph.D… envisioned a gathering of 50,000 men at the University of Colorado’s Folsom Field for training and teaching on what it means to be godly men.  He was imagining a revival among Christian men who were willing to take a stand for God in their marriages, families, churches, and communities.  Revival and discipleship are the two elements that became the foundation and focus of Promise Keepers.

Promise Keepers ’91: “Where are the Men?”

Two ministries were developed: the Point Man and Ambassador.  The Point Man ministry (later called “Key Man”) grew the first year to approximately 1,000 participating churches.  The Key Man served his local pastor as the main organizer.  The Ambassador volunteered to present the concept of Promise Keepers and men’s ministry to churches in a particular geographic or cultural area.

Promise Keepers ’92: “What Makes a Man?”

During this conference, the mandate was issued for men to pursue reconciliation across racial and denominational lines.

Dr. James Dobson’s “Focus on the Family” Radio Program, Promise Keepers first hardback book (and companion study guide), also named What Makes A Man? (NavPress)

Promise Keepers ’93: Face to Face

Men from every state in the nation and 16 foreign countries came to Boulder to honor Jesus Christ and to learn more about becoming godly men.  “God subsequently expanded our vision to gather men in stadiums throughout the nation.  More than events, we believe that God wants the ministry of Promise Keepers to be a spark in His hand, igniting a nationwide movement that calls men to reconciliation, discipleship, and godliness.”

Two Bible studies for men: What God Does When Men Pray by William Carr Peel, and Daily Disciplines for the Godly Man by Bob Beltz (both by NavPress).   The Masculine Journey by Robert Hicks (NavPress).

Promise Keepers ’94: Seize The Moment

In 1994, Promise Keepers’ manifesto was published by Focus on the Family Publishing of Colorado Springs.  The book, Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper, outlined the message of Promise Keepers, seven commitments to God, friends, purity, family, church, community, and world that frame a life of Christian integrity.

Promise Keepers published a Bible study book for married men called Strategies for a Successful Marriage by E. Glenn Wagner and Dietrich Gruen (NavPress).  Promise Keepers launched New Man Magazine with Strang Publishing of Lake Mary, Florida.

Promise Keepers ’95: Raise The Standard

At five breakout sessions for youth, 3,500 young men and boys responded to the altar call invitations to the Christian faith.  The practical expression of the mission of Promise Keepers is to encourage, equip, and motivate the men of all nations to raise the standard of Jesus Christ in their own lives, families, churches, and communities.

The Power of a Promise Kept by Gregg Lewis was published by Focus on the Family

Promise Keepers ’96: Break Down the Walls and Fan the Flame

In February 1996, Promise Keepers hosted more than 39,000 Christian clergy for a worship and teaching conference in Atlanta.  “Fan into Flame” was reported to be the largest gathering of Christian clergy in modern history.  The summer conference theme was “Break Down the Walls,” focusing men’s attention on God’s heart for reconciliation.

Go the Distance by John Trent (published by Focus on the Family)

Promise Keepers ’97: The Making of a Godly Man

The issues addressed included servant leadership in the home, moral purity, small group involvement, character and competency in the workplace, reconciliation and for the first time, financial integrity. In addition to the gospel, men were confronted with the daily disciplines of the Christian life and called to practice confession and repentance throughout the year.

Promise Keepers and Moody Press published a workbook, Break Down the Walls: Experiencing Biblical Reconciliation and Unity in the Body of Christ by Raleigh Washington and Glen Kehrein, and Claude V. King, John Trent authored the Making of a Godly Man workbook, published by Focus on the Family, Promise Keepers and Zondervan collaborated on the publication of the Promise Keepers Men’s Study Bible

’97 STAND IN THE GAP: A SACRED ASSEMBLY OF MEN

The day opened as Jewish shofars sounded to commence the program.  An estimated one million men participated in “Stand in the Gap”, a day of personal repentance and prayer.  The event gathered men from every race, nationality, and most Christian denominations as well as from many countries around the world.  The program was six hours of standing and kneeling in prayer, worship, confession, repentance, and declarations.

Promise Keepers ’98: Live a Legacy: Make a difference in your lifetime

More than 30,000 priests, pastors and ministers attended nine regional clergy conferences around the U.S.  Board Bishop Porter said, “there should be nothing to hinder men from coming to hear the real-life applications of the gospel of Jesus Christ from some of the most dynamic speakers in America.”

Graham Kendrick – Knowing You (All I Once Held Dear),  A daily devotional Magazine called Men of Integrity by Christianity Today

Promise Keepers ‘99: Choose This Day

Bill McCartney, founder and president, said, “Given the crisis conditions facing the church of Jesus Christ in the United States and around the world, godly men are essential to accomplishing this mission of love, unity and righteousness called Christianity.”

Promise Keepers 2000: Go the Distance

Promise Keepers celebrated its tenth anniversary in 2000.  Since 1990, PK has reached five million men through more than 100 conferences.  Countless others have been reached through our radio, television and Internet broadcasts and printed materials

Promise Keepers published Face to Face: An Encounter with Christ (Nelson – Word Multimedia),  Print/audio/video kit designed for church-based men’s retreats – presentations by Tony Evans, Jack Hayford, Crawford Loritts, Max Lucado and Joe Stowell.

JoeWhite-PromiseKeepersCrossPromise Keepers 2001: Turn the Tide – Living Out An Extreme Faith

Promise Keepers founder and president Bill McCartney said the current culture is pulling men away from faith in God.  Instead, McCartney said, an extreme faith is required to represent Christ to families and communities.

At 15 of the 16 two-day conferences, Missouri-based Christian camp director Joe White portrayed a Roman cross-builder, constructing a 12-foot cross on stage.  Thousands responded by tacking handwritten confessions to the cross.

Music  by Cross Movement, Jars of Clay, John Reuben and Michael W. Smith.  Speakers included Reggie Dabbs, Erwin McManus, Josh McDowell, and Bill McCartney.  [Emphasis added]

Promise Keepers 2002: Storm the Gates

Promise Keepers’ youth event, Passage, took place in Anaheim on Nov. 1-2 to an estimated 10,000 teens, dads, mentors, and youth pastors.

The Vision, Passion, Discipline & Risk of a Noble Man by James Ryle.  Promise Keepers also published a companion volume, A Pastor’s Guide to Leading Men by Pete Richardson

Rick JoynerRick Joyner (from MorningStar Ministries (current mentor to Todd Bentley ex- Lakeland Revival preacher) Apostle in New Apostolic Reformation NAR) associated with James Ryle (Pastor to Bill McCartney),  Jack Deere,  Francis Frangipane, Dudley Hall, Andrew Strom, Mike Bickle, and many more from the Kansas City Prophets, the Vineyard, and the Charismatic movement.

Rick Joyner confessed initiate of Knights of Malta

Charisma Magazine wrote an April 2001 article about Rick Joyner titled, God’s Lightning Rod, and said this:

“…Joyner has also distanced himself from those who have criticized him for his association with the Knights of Malta, a charitable organization that allegedly has its roots in medieval chivalry. Some who learned of Joyner’s connection to the group began spreading rumors that he had become a Mason or that the Knights of Malta was a secret society with occult origins.

“We do not let paranoid people dictate what we do,” Joyner wrote in the May/June 1999 issue of the Morning Star Prophetic Bulletin, adding: “I have never been a member of the Masons.” He explained that he had been knighted by a “European order of chivalry” in the early 1990s and that the Knights are widely recognized as “a registry of nobility.”   (Was published at this url:  – no longer available)

According to Joyner, the Knights of Malta–also known as the Order of St. John–has Christian roots and can be linked to the Hospitallers, who were credited with starting hospitals during the Middle Ages. The order conducts no secret ceremonies as does a Masonic lodge and actually has undergone a spiritual revival, Joyner says.

RickJoyner-KnightsOfMalta

January 2008 photo of Jorge Parrot and Rick Joyner (left to right)

Joyner has even written a book about the Knights of Malta, “Courage That Changed the World”, which features a photograph of the robed “grand master” of the order. In the book, Joyner compares the Knights to end-time Christians who will overcome the world’s evils through faith in Christ  [4]

Rick Joyner stated this about the Knights of Malta,

“…Malta is still recognized as a sovereign order having its diplomatic center in Malta. It is considered by some to be the only true international registry of nobility still in existence. It has remained intact as a Christian order for over 900 years and its vows center on serving the Lord Jesus Christ, defending Christian unity, and serving “our lords, the poor and the oppressed.” It is considered by many to be the only true chivalrous order remaining…”

Promise Keepers 2003: The Challenge: A Call to Action

The 2003 theme was “The Challenge: A Call to Action,” and reclaiming the culture and servant leadership were regular topics throughout each two-day event.

Bill McCartney published his fourth book, Blind Spots: What You Don’t See May Be Keeping Your Church From Greatness (Wheaton: Tyndale House, 2003). Worship anthems and previously released songs from Plus One, Salvador, Take 6 and Chris Tomlin.  Thomas S. Fortson Jr., Ph.D., was named Promise Keepers’ third president and CEO on October 1

Promise Keepers 2004: “Uprising – The Revolution of a Man’s Soul”

Based on the book by Erwin McManus, Uprising – A Revolution of the Soul, Promise Keepers’ 15th season drew more than 179,000 men and boys to 18 conferences

“My goal is to destroy Christianity as a world religion and be a recatalyst for the movement of Jesus Christ,” McManus, author of a new book called “The Barbarian Way”, said in a telephone interview. “Some people are upset with me because it sounds like I’m anti-Christian. I think they might be right.”  –  Erwin McManus  “The Barbarian Way”

“Somehow Christianity has become a nonmystical religion. It’s about a reasonable faith. If we believe the right things, then we are orthodox. Frankly whether we ever actually connect to God or experience His undeniable presence has become incidental, if not irrelevant. We have become believers rather than experiencers. To know God in Scriptures always went beyond information to intimacy. We may find ourselves uncomfortable with this reality, but the faith of the Scriptures is a mystical faith. It leads us beyond the material world into an invisible reality. We become connected to the God of eternity. Who you are at the core is spirit. God is Spirit. To walk with God is to journey in the spiritual realm.”  –  Erwin McManus  “The Barbarian Way”

Promise Keepers 2005: “The Awakening – An Unpredictable Adventure”

It was a crowning achievement to an incredible year as over 3,300 gave their hearts to Jesus for the first time, while thousands of others came forward to rededicate their lives.  On November 6-12, PK traveled into international waters as we took the “The Awakening” event to Nassau, Bahamas.  Prime Minister Perry G. Christie invited PK to join our Bahamian brothers for a week of strategic ministry initiatives and a Day of Prayer to awaken the men in the region.

Promise Keepers 2006: “Unleashed – Releasing the Raw Power of Your Heart”

More than 132,000 men were reached at conferences in 18 U.S. cities.   Motorcyclists increased their involvement at 2006 Unleashed events, with 750 bikers participating in special rallies in five cities.  PK’s first-ever custom bike “Unleashed”

Guest musicians at 2006 conferences included Dove-award winning Israel and New Breed, jam band Big Daddy Weave, Samoan soulsters The Katinas, Mark Harris (of 4Him), storyteller Mark Schultz, guitar whiz Lincoln Brewster and composer Paul Baloche, Minister who gave testemony – Richard Wilkins from Awakening Him Ministry

** Israel and the New Breed appeared at Rhema Church, 2 Days of Hope Celebration with Joel and Victoria Osteen.  New Breed = Joel’s Army, Over-comers, Manifest Sons of God.

Promise Keepers 2007: Flood – Energizing Men of Integrity

Promise Keepers (PK) marked its 18th year of ministry with events aimed at community service, and a range of Internet-based tools to help men grow spiritually.

PK7 conference band, and Reggie Dabbs, Pro football coach and author Tony Dungy, Burkhalter’s volume Risking It All (Xulon Press)

Promise Keepers 2008: “Manhood ’08 – Let the Truth Be Told”

A national Saturday church/community outreach event called “PKAdventure” was distributed in the spring and fall through theater and church satellite networks.  Related community service projects in 13 communities from coast to coast included building a youth camp, a barn-raising, park clean up, community barbecues and block parties, house painting and building renovation, food drives, blood drives, and clothing drives.

Tom Fortson’s second book Manhood – Let the Truth Be Told (Moody Publishers),  The Rev. Raleigh Washington, D.D. was named President/CEO.

Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper [3]

PROMISE 1   A Promise Keeper is committed to honoring Jesus Christ through worship, prayer and obedience to God’s Word in the power of the Holy Spirit.

PROMISE 2   A Promise Keeper is committed to pursuing vital relationships with a few other men, understanding that he needs brothers to help him keep his promises.

PROMISE 3   A Promise Keeper is committed to practicing spiritual, moral, ethical, and sexual purity.

PROMISE 4   A Promise Keeper is committed to building strong marriages and families through love, protection and biblical values.

PROMISE 5   A Promise Keeper is committed to supporting the mission of his church by honoring and praying for his pastor, and by actively giving his time and resources.

PROMISE 6   A Promise Keeper is committed to reaching beyond any racial and denominational barriers to demonstrate the power of biblical unity.

PROMISE 7   A Promise Keeper is committed to influencing his world, being obedient to the Great Commandment (see Mark 12:30-31) and the Great Commission (see Matthew 28:19-20).

Dr. Bruce Wilkinson developed the widely used video curriculum, Personal Holiness in Times of Temptation, as a part of “The Biblical Manhood” series for Promise Keepers.

—–

[1] http://www.promisekeepers.org/about
[2] http://www.promisekeepers.org/about/pkhistory
[3] http://www.promisekeepers.org/about/7promises
[4] http://www.seekgod.ca/nonew.htm
More...

37 comments to Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Lauren also known as Ryan Peter using idential IP address for ALL posts.

    Ryan, You have seriously disappointed me and I am sure others. Terrible.

    Updates of Lauren and Ryan since:
    1) (15 Nov) I proved that Ryan Peter and Lauren Louw were commenting with exactly the same IP addresses for ALL comments. We believed Ryan and Lauren to be the same person.
    2) (Updated: 17 Nov) Apologies, it would appear that Lauren is a separate individual but most definitely working together with Ryan (how? why? I don’t care)
    3) (Updated: 17 Nov) Lauren has deleted offending comments from her blog that were posted from the 9th Nov on wards. How odd is that…
    4) (Updated: 18 Nov) Ok never mind, Lauren’s blog has completely vanished into thin air. Now that is fascinating.
    5) (Updated: 19 Nov) Lauren’s blog is back and Ryan thinks they could even live in the same neighbourhood because they somehow managed to have the same IP address. We suspect they live in the same house.
    6) (Updated: 24 Dec) – Lauren/Ryan posts on her blog: “Christian meditation/prayer tells us to LOOK TO GOD, LOOK TO JESUS CHRIST for our salvation, our help. The New Age meditation tells us to look inward for your salvation from: DTW” This is a lie I never said that.

  • God willing Deceived Less

    Can’t help but notice – Wow how hateful some “Christians” get when they are confronted with some truth.
    Vast difference between this brotherhood and the freedom from oppression Jesus came to offer us ALL (not just a selection of self-serving men).
    Thanks for this insight. I wish more people were aware of the depths of this.
    from Another Human & Not the Household Pet

  • Amanda

    Ryan

    Regarding repentance of sin

    Chris Rosebrough had the opportunity to visit Saddleback last year. He wrote:

    In his lecture on Purpose-Driven Preaching Warren made it unmistakably clear that the goal of Purpose-Driven Preaching is obedience. This is why Warren’s sermons are heavy on application and practical ‘how to’ information. In classic Warren sound-bite style he claimed that “the problem with a lot of preaching is that it produces learners instead of doers.” One of Warren’s recurring mantra’s was that Christians already know more information than they are putting into practice. Said Warren, “Too many people are informed but not transformed.”

    The ahah moment came for me when Warren emphatically claimed “THE central message of the New Testament is repentance.” It was at that moment that I fully understood that Rick Warren is a pietist and that the preaching philosophy employed by Warren is nothing less than the 21st Century incarnation of Wesleyan Methodism. (I mean that in the nicest way possible). In other words, with the goal of PD preaching being ‘obedience’ the only thing you could count on hearing Sunday after Sunday is God’s Law, do this, or don’t do that, along with practical information (methods) on how to do this or don’t do that. The underlying assumption is that by applying the information or methods given in any particular sermon a person will become ‘more obedient’ to God.

    …If I do not hear the gospel but instead only hear that I must try harder or apply certain steps in order to be more obedient or change my life then I am likely to despair and begin to believe that God only loves me based upon my performance and despair and think that God doesn’t love me anymore because of my lack of obedience. Even worse, I may become self-deceived like the Pharisees and think that I am more favored by God because of my better obedience. (That is not the Christian faith. That is self-righteousness.)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ryan, Ryan, Ryan…..oh Ryan.

    Looking at the whole picture, it’s very obvious that you and this “Lauren” person are one and the same, or you know each other and using the same pc. What ever it is. I don’t care.

    1) (15 Nov) I proved that Ryan Peter and Lauren Louw were commenting with exactly the same IP addresses for ALL comments. We believed Ryan and Lauren to be the same person.
    2) (Updated: 17 Nov) Apologies, it would appear that Lauren is a separate individual but most definitely working together with Ryan (how? why? I don’t care)
    3) (Updated: 17 Nov) Lauren has deleted offending comments from her blog that were posted from the 9th Nov on wards. How odd is that…
    4) (Updated: 18 Nov) Ok never mind, Lauren’s blog has completely vanished into thin air. Now that is fascinating.
    5) (Updated: 19 Nov) Lauren’s blog is back and Ryan thinks they could even live in the same neighbourhood because they somehow managed to have the same IP address. We suspect they live in the same house.
    6) (Updated: 24 Dec) – Lauren/Ryan posts on her blog: “Christian meditation/prayer tells us to LOOK TO GOD, LOOK TO JESUS CHRIST for our salvation, our help. The New Age meditation tells us to look inward for your salvation from: DTW” This is a lie I never said that.

    Anyhow…

    Considered yourself officially banned, both of you (split personality or not). In fact I don’t even have to ban Lauren because when I blacklist your IP address(s) Ryan, she is kicked out too. Imagine that.]

    Noted again: For anyone else out there confused.

    Ryan Peter has been commenting on this site under many other articles trying desperately to defend his unbiblical Emerging ideologies. I have been very lenient with him, even accepting his apologies for previous incidents where he sided with people who replicated my blog and used my name to write comments on others blog. I waste my time trying to help people (who have no intention of wanting help and are only around to cause mischief and deception.) If anything maybe someone is helped from all of this as they will be able to see the intentions of Emerging Church thinkers and know that their intentions are far from good.

    Anyhow back to the topic of Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thank you GWDL. thank you!

  • [EDITED by Admo: Deleted all Ryan Peter’s comments under this article. Lauren Louw and Ryan Peter are one and the same person (1st suspicion) or know each other (2nd suspicion) both came in commenting using same IP addresses with a match each and every time

    Ryan is now writing articles on his blog pleading innocence and that I am a bad bad bad person falsely accusing him, and Lauren has deleted the offending posts from the 9th Nov on wards from her blog. Where there is smoke there is always fire.]

    [Edited: 18 Nov – Send the fire brigade. Lauren’s blog has been completely deleted]
    [Edited: 19 Nov – Send an ambulance. Lauren’s blog is back and Ryan thinks they could even live in the same neighbourhood because they somehow managed to have the same IP address. We suspect they live in the same house.] ;)
    [Edited: 24 Dec – Lauren/Ryan posts on her blog: “Christian meditation/prayer tells us to LOOK TO GOD, LOOK TO JESUS CHRIST for our salvation, our help. The New Age meditation tells us to look inward for your salvation from: DTW” This is a lie I never said that.]

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    For anyone else out there confused.

    Ryan Peter has been commenting on this site under many other articles trying desperately to defend his unbiblical Emerging ideologies. I have been very lenient with him, even accepting his apologies for previous incidents where he sided with people who replicated my blog and used my name to write comments on others blog. I waste my time trying to help people (who have no intention of wanting help and are only around to cause mischief and deception.) If anything maybe someone is helped from all of this as they will be able to see the intentions of Emerging Church thinkers and know that their intentions are far from good.

    Anyhow back to the topic of Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers…

  • Amanda

    Well, I am out here and I am very confused. DTW I trust you will let Ryan back in to clear his name?

    Ryan

    So your explanation is that DTW is full of nonsense? Come on! Lauren writes from your IP address and you do not consider it worth your while to find out what is going on and to clear your name here? Should you not have thanked DTW for spotting what was going on here? Should you not have given some kind of explanation to the others here? I am afraid blaming DTW for being full of nonsense is not good enough. Are you saying she just made up the story about the identical IP address? Why, then she is capable of doing other things too and we should be warned.

    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
    (John 3:17-21)

  • Lauren Louw

    [EDITED by Admo: Deleted all Lauren Louw’s comments under this article. Lauren Louw and Ryan Peter are one and the same person (1st suspicion) or know each other (2nd suspicion) both came in commenting using same IP addresses with a match each and every time

    Ryan is now writing articles on his blog pleading innocence and that I am a bad bad bad person falsely accusing him, and Lauren has deleted the offending posts from the 9th Nov on wards from her blog. Where there is smoke there is always fire.]

    [Edited: 18 Nov – Send the fire brigade. Lauren’s blog has been completely deleted]
    [Edited: 19 Nov – Send an ambulance. Lauren’s blog is back and Ryan thinks they could even live in the same neighbourhood because they somehow managed to have the same IP address. We suspect they live in the same house.] ;)
    [Edited: 24 Dec – Lauren/Ryan posts on her blog: “Christian meditation/prayer tells us to LOOK TO GOD, LOOK TO JESUS CHRIST for our salvation, our help. The New Age meditation tells us to look inward for your salvation from: DTW” This is a lie I never said that.]

  • Michael Anthony

    As pertaining Angus the only finality is this; what is the end product of any movement/gathering? That will answer itself.

  • Amanda

    Nic Paton wrote:

    So I rejoice at the presence of the Trickster in a barren land of closed thought, for quite apart from being the bringer of death and destruction, he in fact is a catalyst for life and salvation. I now look at Jesus as embodying (amongst all things divine) this trickster, as well.

    “Become as little children”: engage in play, awe, and the space opened up by ambiguity.
    “I become a fool for Christ” – here Paul elevates the Jester role, acknowledging that it is not the highly evolved adult, but those without guile, who will experience G-d.

    …I suggest that this is where the trickster comes to assist us. His realm includes ambiguity, irony, and play, incompleteness and chaos, holding in tension and suspending belief, generosity and cruelty, imagination, flexibility and cunning shifting of shape, the boundaries between life and death, and making connections where they are not supposed to be.

    Jesus Christ said:

    You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

    Ryan Peter wrote:

    My point is that, whether you like it or not, both Nic and and you, Deborah, believe in Jesus and you both have no choice but to love each other, as per Christ’s command.
    For blessed are the peacemakers!

    Lauren wrote:

    i dont want you guys to fight like this. a Christian who does not love another Christian can not be called a Christian.

    Lauren, do you recognise Ryan as your brother? You should. Then why do you not demonstrate your love for him by clearing his name? Are you blind to the damage that you have caused? Please explain to the sheep and goats how it is that you are posting from his/Ryan’s IP.

    This has proven to me that there are alot of goats between the sheep.

    Are you talking about me? Do you know that Jesus Christ is going to tell the goats:

    “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Matthew 25:41)

    [Edited by Admo: Because I have deleted Ryan/Lauren’s (Hero and Villan or is that the other way around) comments. I edited some of your comment Amanda as your questions to them were out of place and made no sense anymore. Ta for understanding ;)]

  • Michael Anthony

    Do you know what ‘Lauren’ …

    Wow! i am shocked!!! my internet was down this weekend! just saw this now!
    Christians should not behave like this! i am lauren, im a 23 year old fashion design student. i was speaking from my heart. This has proven to me that there are a lot of goats between the sheep.

    Yeah right, and you just happened to start a blog at the same time that Ryan declares that he will not post on this site anymore (which already sounded very infantile…). Please grow up or go do some manly things.

    Ryan

    It is actually a pretty serious sin to call evil good and good evil. Ryan, you certainly take the cake – now you claiming injury on your blog for being falsely accused. Did you know that when you do such things there is a cost implied; another piece of your integrity is gone, forever.

    It is also callous to call concerned Christians goats. Perhaps you do not understand the context of the parable of the sheep and goats, but then again you always seemed to have difficulty in appreciating established Christian viewpoints and seemed to favour more modern and slicker ways of doing things.

    I think that the third way is just hubris and plain old arrogance – everyone in this movement thinks they are special and will attain higher spirituality because they are more sensitized to ‘what god is doing’ and new ways of doing things. The problem with this is that there is another cost – you become desensitized to established truth. (And call the established truth hyper-fundamentalistism and even legalism)

    And please dude, don’t put yourself in the same class as Jesus in the context of your advertising your persecution on your blog – that is blasphemy. I personally think you just want attention and will throw tantrums to get it. DTW should have banned you long ago.

    I am afraid the only casualty of all this has been the truth.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    You know I did ban him and then in the kindness of my heart I let him back because I thought, maybe there are a tinnyyyweeeny bit of hope. Now I sit here shocked that someone can go through all this effort to make a fool of Jesus Christ because this is who this blog is for. Actually I am speechless and took some time out this morning to come to terms with the ‘madness’ of this situation.

    ‘Lauren’ was kind enough to give me a phone number to phone to show that she was a she and not a he. My question is, who says, Ryan was not a she in the first place. This is the internet after all, stranger things have been known to happen… Anyhow getting a wife or daughter, or girl friend to play games would not be out of the ordinary in this case.

    Besides I don’t do phone calls, or coffee

    Right…what’s next on the list of things to do.

  • Michael Anthony

    Hey Lauren,

    Oh, we beleive everything you say. There, that’s all cleared up then.

    Can you be a dear give us the man’s name she is having an affair with? Perhaps a phone number too? Oh, and sweetie won’t you be a dear and give us ‘Brendan’s’ phone number too. We really want to pray for them…I am sure they are so appreciative of you making this public – so generous of you, so professional and so private.

    We could pray for them but the flying spagehtti monster is on furlow and I think I have misplaced my pastafarian membership card.

  • Michael Anthony

    In the 90’s I actually studied part time psychology under one of SA’s top psychologists (don’t agree that psychology and Christianity are compatible but have to mention it here). What I do know is that in Dissasociative disorders and the like when there is just a host person and another crops up it’s only a matter of the time before the other personalities all come out and say hi.

    I hope ouma Louw is not emergent too, because this can get really messy. But at least we know there must always be a conservative side. Wonder if that be auntie Louw?

  • Jen

    Strength, love & freedom from oppression – a prayer & my prayer for all truth seekers, especially those who have been blindsighted by false doctrine.
    Please don’t give up & thanks for the work.
    “Not Falling Away”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Nothing like being falsely accused of falsely accusing. This is what loving Roger Saner (FutureChurch.co.za) had to say about me reading Ryan’s article here *ryanpeterblogs.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/when-falsely-accused*

    ————–
    November 17, 2009 at 8:39 am

    Roger Saner

    Ryan, you were simply operating under the faulty assumptions that:
    1. The person who accused you is in any way interested in what you have to say.
    2. They are willing to listen to you.

    Unfortunately, these are hallmarks of this particular person’s interactions with others, and very little to do with you.

    One day I’d like to find someone who has the same presuppositions as her, but with opposite opinions, and stick ‘em in a cage fight.
    ————–

    Hmmmm… that’s nice Roger. Please remind me that you are a ‘christian’ again? I keep forgetting.

    ————–
    November 17, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Ryan Peter

    Lol, thanks Roger That would certainly be interesting to watch!
    ————–

    Here is a snippet of the real story regarding Ryan (note this is not the first time Ryan has been caught out for doing unsavoury things to me) Submitted on 2009/11/15 at 10:41am

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    NOTE: Andrew Strom has publicly removed himself from the Lakeland crew and denounces what goes on there. However he is still caught up in the prophetic (not necessarily with prophetic people who have been exposed).

    Having said all that, Andrew Strom is still Latter Rain believing as he preaches Revival. There is no revival Andrew. Your dispensation views are completely distorted!

    And stop worrying about Africa, you have enough apostasy in your own back yard to worry about. I am not sure what it is with you lot taking a massive concern about Africa and bringing transformation to this continent. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not against missionaries coming to Africa. BUT don’t come here and try expose the errors and problems of the evangelical church in Africa with more erroneous teaching.

  • Rika

    I love Jesus Christ, The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. I am so full of sin and all I know is that Jesus said, do not judge, at the same measure you judge you will be judged. I look at all your information and yes it is truly informative and a good and important warning. However, I have to say this about Angus Buchun. I look at the good in my immediate family his ministry has achieved in bringing my family into the kingdom. I do not give him the glory, I thank God/Jesus/and the HolySpirit for using him. I am deeply saddended by christians attacking each other. Please please, stop that!! you are helping satan to bring division. Yes, be aware of the false prophets, but really, may God one day in heaven reveal to us all that Angus Buchan is NOT A FALSE PROPHET!!! Please, I do not want to add any fuel to this obvious fire, I can only pray for all of us to unite together and respect our Awesome God who has made us all so uniquely different, thus so much more able to be used to enlarge territories and take back from satan what rightfully belongs to us! May the Lord bring peace and unity to us all. Kind regards. Rika

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Rika

    Read your Bible. You do not unify with men who preach false doctrines of dominionism and kingdom now teaching that is horrendusly false. Read this is you care: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/02/20/south-africans-reclaiming-that-dominion-mandate-to-dominate/

  • louise

    Ok, about Angus. He comes over so sincere and loving. I once said I had a problem in my spirit but the Christains shouted me down. Why then do men sit and weep and really seem to beg GOD for forgiveness when he speaks. I get so confused with the wolf in lambs clothing as I battle to understand, dont these people know they cannot win with God. Why do this for money when it has no value. Are they so stupd?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    louise

    They weep because they feel that outward expressions and emotions will change their wicked ways. The whole point of asking Jesus for forgiveness is actually changing your ways afterwards. And no they do not know because they actually don’t care for Jesus Christ the Son of God. If they did they would have stood up and walked out of the meeting where lies were being preached to start off with.

  • cecilia

    Louise, men and women do strange things (even make promises) when the message spoken carries a lot of emotion.
    I mean, if a speaker says: if you don’t repent, God can in this instance kill you by (let say:) lightning! Wouldn’t anyone very quickly repent? but was that a real act of repentance? or was it motivated by fear and the inborn yearning all humans have – to live?
    YET, I believe Holy Spirit DOES work and that there are definitely the people who take the step further than emotion and repent truthfully and change their ways – but as Deborah said, that happens afterwards and actually has nothing to do with the meeting(s) they were at! It is the Holy Spirit who brings conviction.
    People (yes, men too!) are emotional beings; so if someone (especially of the same sex (men in this case) with no or very few women attending (especially not their own wives!), they are open to “let go” and acknowledge that the words / message do hit home – and by the grace of God some do listen to the conviction of Holy Spirit and make decision(s) to change their lives.
    but it is SOOO terribly sad that in many (most?) instances it doesn’t happen! A friend of mine’s husband also went to the 200 000 men gathering. Up to the point where his ‘pêl’ dropped him at the doorstep back home, he was laughing etc. etc. but when he stepped into the house his first words was: “I don’t want to be married to you anymore.” no explanation, no nothing… the next day he set up a meeting with someone he met via sms dating and started an affair, with his hurt wife fully aware of it all! that’s the short part of some of the stories of what happens AFTER the meetings! the same happens when women set up women’s meetings – they do and say things they would never when men / their husbands are there; but they go home and are the same persons they were before they went to the meeting!
    as Deborah pointed out: (lies …) the messages are chosen in such a way that it tickles the ears; too often it’s like the seed that fell on the rocky ground – it sprouts out quickly, but dies almost just as quickly.

  • Slave to Freemasonry

    This MIGHTY MEN junk is about to be shoved down our throats in the name of blessings and so-called revival all over again soon… I heard it might thankfully be the last. Any more news?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Slavey to Freemasonry

    Yes I heard it’s his last, and the reason? Because….wait for it…. This MMC will be the 7th one and the number 7 is the number of ‘completion’. I say no more.
    It might very well also be what I call the ‘persian carpet shop sales pitch”

    “We are closing down, 50% sale, everything’s got to go”. And this closing down sale happens again the following year and the next and the next… *yawns*

  • Michael

    Lies,deception,half-truths,partial truths,truth mixed with lies in various ratios to create total confusion and deception…these are the tactics of the father of all lies, Satan. The bottom line is that your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ (and your salvation) is suspect if you are indifferent to sin, dislike honest and direct criticism or exposure to your sins,do not see the state of the world as it truly is,believe that God just winks at your sins and you have not died to the old man.Christ hung upon the cross for my sins and yours with the pain and suffering and darkness and humiliation…if you could see this and what my and your own sin added to this how can you even compromise and not take this fundamental and main issue seriously.

    The so called church has strayed far away from the truth of the scriptures…there is NO INTEGRITY…well known so called Christian leaders are getting married and divorced and committing adultery (Ray Macauley),preachers such as Angus Buchan are gathering hundreds of thousands of men together and telling them to be become good husbands and fathers and talks of true forgiveness and restoration but in fact has huge skeletons in his cupboard.In his book “Faith like Potatoes”(page 18) he wrote untruths..ie Andy and Lindi …..were born in Zambia… They were NOT and they are NOT his children…Jill was married before and left her her first husband in SA and took his children (after he became a Christian) to Zambia and divorced her husband against his wishes and later married Angus AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.Today her ex-husband seeks restoration with his children but is denied this.

    I cannot also accept that such hypocracy comes from a true man of God and his form of gospel is flawed.

    This emerging church movement is so bad that a woman preacher (well-known in USA) even stated that she did not sin any more…which the bible says makes her out to be a liar…anyone that says he/she does not sin is a liar and …and the truth is not in him/her.The Bible is the SOLE authority of the truth and all other strange things like visions dreams,miraculous experiences are VERY SUSPECT if they do not align themselves with the scriptures accurately AND IN CONTEXT.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    >> In his book “Faith like Potatoes”(page 18) he wrote untruths..ie Andy and Lindi …..were born in Zambia… They were NOT and they are NOT his children…Jill was married before and left her her first husband in SA and took his children (after he became a Christian) to Zambia and divorced her husband against his wishes and later married Angus AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.Today her ex-husband seeks restoration with his children but is denied this.”

    I pray the father gets to restore his relationship with his children soon.

    You know that Angus preaches that men are the high priests of the family. If men are high priests, then Jesus Christ is not (as per Angus)

    Does this whole men gathering together to hear the world of God with women being separated not remind us of a synagogue (men and women separated)

    As for a well known preacher stating they can’t sin anymore is no surprise. You see when you understand this ungodly gospel – they believe that when their christ comes to live in them (when they find him in their inner being) they slowly become totally sinless (or immediately – depending on their ego). Because Jesus was sinless (Biblical), when He comes to live in you, you can’t sin anymore (which is unbiblical). Of course their christ would say that because satan (their christ) has to eradicate ‘repentance of sin’ in order to send people to hell.

  • Michael

    That’s the way it sadly is…Deborah I meant to place this comment under the topic “Stand-up and be counted-MMC 2010” Can you do that for me as well.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    I can do that too, but it wont show up with your name and little picture.

    [Edited: It’s been posted here too:

  • Liz

    The Lord is looking for humble servants not mighty men!!

  • Amelia

    Debbie I have been reading your articles and according to you everyone is false so all I can say, Jesus Christ died for you and my prayer is that you will find salvation. God Bless

  • Are you saying that anyone who contends for the faith once delivered to the saints are not saved? In that case, Paul of Tarsus was not saved and is now in hell.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amelia

    That is an amazing gift you have, to determine who is saved and who isn’t.

  • Katherine Sawick

    Thank you, Rika, for your well stated comment. I feel exactly as you. We accomplish much more good when we stand on common ground as Paul did when he spoke to the men of Athens. He did not attack them for their false gods but spoke to them of the Unkown God. We keep doors open when we do this and slam them shut forever when we, in arrogance, treat those we disagree with disrespectfully. I check out sites like this to look at both sides of issues. Sometimes I find information that is helpful in identifying books or teachings best left alone. More often than not I find the critics are the ones with a problem. Why spend all one’s time criticizing others instead of glorifying God?

  • Katherine Sawwick

    So, you say it’s hunky-dory to disobey Jesus who warned us to take heed that no man deceive us (Matthew 24:4).

    There is a vast difference between the men of Athens and the men of Galatia. The men of Athens were unbelievers who did not know the true God (the unknown God, as Paul said). The men of Galatia were believers who fell prey to false teachers. Now, why do you think I brought the men of Galatia into the equation? Well, let us go there to see how Paul treated Christians who fell prey to false teachers so easily.

    I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:6-9)

    Paul did not attack them. He ever so gently told them that the false teachers will end up in hell if they preached another gospel. Angus Buchan is in close cahoots, not only with the Promise Keepers, but also with Rodney Howard Brown. What does God say about those who climb into bed with false teachers?

    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God (is not saved). He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 Jn 1:9-11)

    Angus Buchan is a partaker of their evil deeds and it seems to me that you also want to be a partaker of their evil deeds.

  • Jon

    What astonishes me about Angus, is that since the first mighty men conference (when I first became aware of him), he has been very adamant that South Africa is in revival. South Africa, according to Angus, has been in revival now for many many years. Despite the mass revival, things seem to be getting worse in South Africa.

    When are we actually going to see the fruits of the so called revival that Angus promised? Crime is getting worse, false churches are jumping up like mushrooms. Angus’s promises/prophecies certainly doesn’t match up with reality.
    “Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

  • Jon,

    So true, so true!

    What does the Bible say about false prophets and their false teachings? Yep Deut 18:22 provides the answer. Here’s another one.

    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. (Deu 18:19-22)

    In other words, Amgus Buchan is an infamous liar and should be avoided at all cost. The WOF cronies think that positive confession is equal to prophecy.

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Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers

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