The Calvinistic Moral High Ground

Tom (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

18 Responses

  1. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    >> John Piper said on Twitter, “God humbles Charismatics by making their children Calvinists; and Calvinists by making their children speak in tongues.” Some say he spoke this in jest (“jest” is not a foreign language).

    ROTFL Bwwahahahahahaha

  2. Sharon says:

    Great article there Thomas. When I grow up I want to write stuff just like you! :o)
    It is sad to read MacArthur’s “salvation statement”. He is in good (bad) company since John Calvin and Augustine’s statements are basically the same.

  3. Jean says:

    What do you say to someone who usurps the moral high ground and accuses everyone else of being false, blasphemous, heretic, off the track and guilty of offering strange fire when he himself follows a path that is leading millions to destruction? (Proverbs 14:12). I suppose the appropriate thing would be to quote to him Matthew 7:1. Nevertheless, I doubt whether that would do any good, particularly when you’re an Arminian who believes that Jesus is not capable of carrying out the will of the Father and saving all the Father gives Him.

    I hope God forgives you one day for your bashing of Christians.

  4. Jean wrote:

    I hope God forgives you one day for your bashing of Christians.

    I pray that God forgives you for having no fear of God and no regret that Calvinism is leading multitudes to hell.

    And he said unto his disciples, It is impossible but that occasions of stumbling should come; but woe unto him, through whom they come! (Luke 17:1).

    Isn’t it ironic? You accuse me of bashing others. But isn’t that what Calvinists are doing when they say God does not love everyone? That’s the worst kind of bashing imaginable.

  5. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Jean

    >> particularly when you’re an Arminian who believes that Jesus is not capable of carrying out the will of the Father and saving all the Father gives Him.

    Who’s an arminian? Certainly no one here! Shame you bit into that lie too. When are you going to stop falling for them Calvinist lies. Calvinists seem to think that everyone that is not a Calvinist is Arminian LOL, this is the joke of the century. No Jean, no.

  6. Sharon says:

    Here we go again with the “judge not” stuff. What do you do with this verse?
    John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    Then we have Pauls statement about judging.
    Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

    Jean the difference here is we are to judge certain things. I could not judge Deborah for being drunk all the time if I am drunk all the time. (Neither of us drink alcohol)

    Now when it comes to the issue of false doctrine we are to go way beyond and use that “Righteous Judgment” in John 7:24. Calvinist doctrine is FALSE, UNTRUE, UNTRUSTWORTHY, SOUL DAMNING, PRIDE RETAINING, SCRIPTURE TWISTING, ARROGANT, AND IT’S “FOUNDERS” (Augustine & Calvin) ARE MOST LIKELY IN HELL!

    I just used righteous judgment. I’m sure you did not like my judging but I did not judge YOU. I have an opinion that you are terribly deceived, but that is not judgment.

    Deb has stated that you have fallen for the old line, “if they aren’t Calvinist then they have to be Arminian. NO, NO, and NO. I have studied very little about Jacob Arminius. Couldn’t really tell much about him or his belief system. He came up with this own little retort to Calvins TULIP. I prefer the Word of God, not some creed, name of a flower, all which have the potential to be and some are, dangerous to the soul that needs Jesus.

    I am a blood bought, born again Daughter of the Most High God. I am a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I did nothing to deserve or earn my salvation. He saved me and keeps me saved. I am unashamedly a Baptist by conviction. I also believe that God is Sovereign not because Calvin said so, but because God’s word says so. Man having free-will doesn’t diminish the Sovereignty of God at all.

    Calvinists stand overly firm on God being Sovereign that way the Calvinist can blame their sin on God because he willed it from before the foundation of the World. That’s blasphemy! Calvinist have forgotten the love and mercy of God. I’m sad for people that are deceived like you and my best friend of 54 years.

    Jean wrote:

    What do you say to someone who usurps the moral high ground and accuses everyone else of being false, blasphemous, heretic, off the track and guilty of offering strange fire when he himself follows a path that is leading millions to destruction? (Proverbs 14:12). I suppose the appropriate thing would be to quote to him Matthew 7:1. Nevertheless, I doubt whether that would do any good, particularly when you’re an Arminian who believes that Jesus is not capable of carrying out the will of the Father and saving all the Father gives Him.

    I hope God forgives you one day for your bashing of Christians.

  7. Sharon says:

    Hey Deb-ster, did you notice the jesture John Mac is doing in his picture above? It is a “Freemason” signal. I have an article some where about that jesture. If I can find it, I’ll post it. There are a lot of Freemasons that are Calvinist…….I wonder why hmmmmmmmmm.

  8. Marius says:

    To think that the grace of God that justifies is so belittled by your condemming views on other Christians. It seems that you think Jesus is sitting at the edge of His chair hoping this will all work out, becaus He is hoping we will come to Him, and He is actually losing the battle if you look at the world anyway. If the creator of the universe cannot save who He wants to, I suppose we are all in trouble, because then we must rely on our own strength for salvation. The problem is that almost every Calvinist will tell you there are primary and secondary issues. Primary is the fact that only faith in Jesus and His perfect work on the cross can save us. That is free grace. God is no inspector with a clip board ticking off who has it exactly right, and then saves who meets the standard. When He saves us and our hearts are inclined to do His will that is The work of the Holy spirit. Full stop. The question is: what happens when you pray? There where nobody but you and God is present. What is your motive? That Jesus is your saviour, and that you need Him so much as you realise how much He has done on the cross, or do you spend your time looking for everybody elses “errors”( not JW or mormon tipes of error), and not realise how much you are actually doing to make others stumble, who might be new in the faith. If Calvin and Luther was so bad, why did they try and be so faithfull to scripture and have such a passion for lost souls. Their focus was on the primary issue, and they relied on the Holy spirit to convict of the rest. Stop condemming everybody who might differ on certain issues. Are we not more of a stumbling block than anything else?

  9. Marius wrote:

    The problem is that almost every Calvinist will tell you there are primary and secondary issues. Primary is the fact that only faith in Jesus and His perfect work on the cross can save us. That is free grace.

    You obviously do not know what Calvinists believe. Faith UNTO salvation plays no part in the Calvinists’ frame of mind. They say man is totally depraved and dead in sin and transgressions and therefore CANNOT believe of his own free-will to be saved. Therefore God has to sovereignly and monergistically regenerate ONLY the elect and then, AFTER their salvation, give them the faith they need to believe in Him. How on earth can anyone, including Calvin, have had a passion for souls when he believed that God sovereignly chose some to suffer an eternity in hell while the elect never had a snowball’s hope in hell of ever going to hell? Why do you need a passion for lost souls when you believe that some are going to heaven and others to hell at any rate, because God chose it to be so? You must be kidding.

  10. Marius wrote

    To think that the grace of God that justifies is so belittled by your condemming views on other Christians. It seems that you think Jesus is sitting at the edge of His chair hoping this will all work out,

    What did Jesus mean when He said: “Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God”? (Isa 49:4)

    I think you are being a little hypocritical when you say you have a passion for lost souls. On whose lost souls do you have compassion – the elect who CANNOT be lost because they’ve been saved (God’s sheep) before the foundation of the world or the non-elect who CANNOT be saved because they’ve been lost (the devil’s goats) before the foundation of the world?

    Marius wrote:

    That Jesus is your saviour, and that you need Him so much as you realise how much He has done on the cross, or do you spend your time looking for everybody elses “errors”( not JW or mormon tipes of error), and not realise how much you are actually doing to make others stumble, who might be new in the faith.

    Why do you support the doctrines of Calvinism when they are the culprits who are making so many people stumble into hell?

    Would you say that the non-elect whom God chose to be punished in hell before the foundation of the world, also need Jesus to be their Saviour?

  11. Sharon says:

    God does have a “clipboard” He does expect us to “get it right.”

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    The clipboards message is to “rightly divide” the Word. Since we are very human we will make some mistakes. There are so many things to learn and know in scripture that I doubt that any Christian has ever gotten everything correct.

    BUT…the doctrine, teaching, way of salvation is so very plain that even a child can understand.
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jesus said that he is the WAY. While the lost man walks through this life there is Jesus pleading, “this way, come this way.” Jesus makes the offer of providing the WAY to our Father God. Jesus doesn’t holler, ” no sorry, you’re not one of the chosen. Hey you over there, come on this way because you were chosen before the foundation of the world.” NO!!! Jesus beckons out to ALL, I AM THE WAY, I AM THE TRUTH & YOU WILL NOT SEE THE FATHER UNLESS YOU CPOME THIS WAY.”

    When my son way only 8 years old, he understand that and asked the Lord to forgive him of his sins and to save him. When my daughter was 8 she did the same.

    While the true gospel is Glorious and Wonderful it is also simple. It is men from 1500 years ago, Augustine who took this belief from the gnostics, not the true scriptures. Calvin got his 1500 year old poison and treason of the true gospel from a Catholic mystic.

    We must “choose us this day (the day of our salvation) who we will serve. Will we believe in Gnosticism and Catholicism (same thing) or will we respond to the beckoning of our Savior Jesus Christ as he says, Come over here, I am the way. I chose Jesus Christ.

    Marius wrote:

    To think that the grace of God that justifies is so belittled by your condemming views on other Christians. It seems that you think Jesus is sitting at the edge of His chair hoping this will all work out, becaus He is hoping we will come to Him, and He is actually losing the battle if you look at the world anyway. If the creator of the universe cannot save who He wants to, I suppose we are all in trouble, because then we must rely on our own strength for salvation. The problem is that almost every Calvinist will tell you there are primary and secondary issues. Primary is the fact that only faith in Jesus and His perfect work on the cross can save us. That is free grace. God is no inspector with a clip board ticking off who has it exactly right, and then saves who meets the standard. When He saves us and our hearts are inclined to do His will that is The work of the Holy spirit. Full stop. The question is: what happens when you pray? There where nobody but you and God is present. What is your motive? That Jesus is your saviour, and that you need Him so much as you realise how much He has done on the cross, or do you spend your time looking for everybody elses “errors”( not JW or mormon tipes of error), and not realise how much you are actually doing to make others stumble, who might be new in the faith. If Calvin and Luther was so bad, why did they try and be so faithfull to scripture and have such a passion for lost souls. Their focus was on the primary issue, and they relied on the Holy spirit to convict of the rest. Stop condemming everybody who might differ on certain issues. Are we not more of a stumbling block than anything else?

  12. Ricardo says:

    If not for those eeevil hell bound folks who believe in the bondage of the will and the predestination of the Saints based on no conditions, we would never have even had the reformation. Is Luther hell-bound because he observed that “free-will” is a thing that does not exist? Is John Knox, that great preacher and reformer, and a Calvinist, going to hell because he fought long and hard for Christ in Scotland? What about Spurgeon? Is he going to hell because he said that free-will does not exist?

    I’ve never quite understood the hatred that people have to the doctrines of grace. Is it really so offensive when Jesus said, “There are some of you that believe not… Therefore I said unto you, no man can come unto me unless it is given unto him by my Father”? And even if you dislike these doctrines, why accuse the foundations of Protestantism of being born in heresy?

    Most of you folks don’t even comprehend what Calvinists actually teach, and instead build up so many strawmen that it is incredible to behold. Instead of pounding so heavy on the hate, and accusing others of being hateful, you should maybe try reading Luther’s “On the Bondage of the Will,” or Jonathan Edward’s treaties on Free-will, or perhaps Spurgeon’s own sermons on the matter. Actually take the time to get to know actual arguments of your opponents before going on these horrid rants.

  13. Ricardo wrote:

    If not for those eeevil hell bound folks who believe in the bondage of the will and the predestination of the Saints based on no conditions, we would never have even had the reformation. Is Luther hell-bound because he observed that “free-will” is a thing that does not exist? Is John Knox, that great preacher and reformer, and a Calvinist, going to hell because he fought long and hard for Christ in Scotland? What about Spurgeon? Is he going to hell because he said that free-will does not exist?

    If free-will does not exist then we should tear our several Holy Spirit inspired passages from Scripture.

    And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

    You are invited to take of the Living Water freely of your own free-will. No one, least of all Jesus Christ, is going to force open your mouth and pour the Living Water down your throat without you really wanting it.

    And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Jos 24:15)

    You have the free-will to choose which ever god or gods you want to follow and serve. The God of the Bible is not going to force you to follow and serve Him. The Calvinist god is NOT the God of the Bible but another god who loves only some elitist and predestined elect persons.

    Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.(Deu 11:26-28)

    You have been given the free-will to either choose the curse or the blessing God has placed before you. Either you repent and receive his pardon through faith in Jesus Christ and the eternal blessing that goes with it, or you reject his pardon through faith in Jesus Christ and the eternal curse that goes along with it. You see, God will never choose in your behalf. That’s not grace; it is downright coercion.

    Ricardo wrote:

    I’ve never quite understood the hatred that people have to the doctrines of grace.

    It’s because you do not know what true grace is. You think grace is when God intervenes sovereignly and monergistically to regenerate the so-called elect without them having to have faith and without them knowing it. That’s not grace. It is downright coercion. Calvinists are the ones who hate God’s true grace and mercy and has changed it into hatred for the so-called non-elect. Want to know what true grace and mercy is?

    For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,(Tit 2:11)

    Ricardo wrote:

    Most of you folks don’t even comprehend what Calvinists actually teach, and instead build up so many strawmen that it is incredible to behold.”

    Do you know what Calvinists really teach? I don’t think so. Answer me one question: Does God only love some people and hate the rest? If you do believe that He only loves the elect and hates the rest, you not only do not comprehend what Calvinism actually teaches; you also do not know the God of the Bible and that, my friend, is very dangerous.

    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.(Joh 17:3)

    I don’t have to study what Luther, Jonathan Edwards and Spurgeon said about man’s free-will. I already know what they taught. What interests me most is what the Bible says about free-will and it definitely does not say it is in bondage or is non-existent. Do you really think Jesus would extend such a magnanimous invitation to all men when man does not have a free will?

    Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Mat 11:28-30)

    I suggest that you renounce the lies of Calvinism and come to Jesus for your salvation. But then again, you must know that you are heavy-laden with sin before you can do that. Only those who know they are sick will visit a physician.

  14. Sharon says:

    Are they going to hell is present tense. They are in one place or the other. Since they lived a few hundred years ago they are where they will spend eternity.
    1. Martin Luther, what did he “reform” in the Catholic system of belief in which he stayed? He believed that the keeping of the “sacraments” were essential to salvation. That is heresy. He hated Jews and believed they should be persecuted and their private property be confiscated. He believed in “infant baptism” which is not in scripture any where. Jesus wasn’t even baptized as a baby. So every thing Martin Luther railed about in the Catholic belief system is still done today and even worse. What did he “reform”?

    2. John Calvin, he was an unrepentant murderer of approximately 50 people and the most notorious was Servetus. Calvin spent the rest of his life trying to justify advocating his burning him at the stake. Calvin believed in infant baptism and it was a “right owed to them by their parents.” Again, like Martin Luther, they kept this very Catholic belief. John Calvin believed also that the keeping of the sacraments were essential to a persons salvation. John Calvin hated the Pope and yet he earned the name for himself of “The Pope of Geneva.” He was a cruel tyrant and seemed to enjoy the burnings or beheadings of any who disagreed with him. His only true friend was a Roman Catholic Priest. Read the two “salvation statements” of John Calvin. There is no repentance over sin. No godly sorrow. Jesus Christ is NOT mentioned at all.

    3. John Knox, I confess I do not know a lot about the one called “The Thundering Scotsman.” I do know Mary Queen of Scots, a Catholic, feared him. So that is a good thing. I also know he preached at the Coronation of the young man King James VI & I.

    4. Jonathan Edwards, there to I confess I don’t know a lot about him other than his message, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” At the amount of people that RECEIVED Jesus Christ and the revival that followed I figure Jonathan Edwards was saved. He did deny free-will and he CHOSE to believe that there wasn’t free-will. :o) Great men of God are not always 100% in what they believe.

    5. Charles Haddon Spurgeon. He suffered from depression as do I. He smoked Blackstone Cigars. I like cigars but I don’t smoke. It is estimated that he won over a million souls to Jesus Christ. Spurgeon professed to be a Calvinist and yet struggled with this false teaching of “limited atonement.” He pastor and he was also an evangelist. He knew in his heart that Christ died for all or why else bother to evangelized to people that the majority would be lost anyway.

    Who are we as mere humans to limit the great love of God? Who are we to say that the God who created ALL things, ALL people for His pleasure that He can’t love all of us because WE say so?

    I do not care what any of those men above personally believed about Jesus Christ. I just know that Calvin added to the word and took away from the word to twist, cut, and paste to come up with his false beliefs. He took his ideas from the Catholic mystic Augustine, added to these pagan ideas of Augustine and then decided that God doesn’t love the majority of His creation.

    I do not hate the true doctrine of grace. I reject Calvin’s twisted interpretation of grace. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. It truly is the gift of God. God offers the gift; he doesn’t zap us by throwing the gift at us. He offers, we respond to the wooing of the Holy Spirit and then by faith receive the gift.

    My God, whose name is the Great “I AM” loves all of we mere humans. Did he love those that rejected the gift od His Son and are now and will be in hell? Yes, he did love them up until the rejection. Then there was no more God could do when the rejecter died. It isn’t that Jesus was a failure as Calvinists teach. It is that those who reject are “without excuse.”

    Ricardo wrote:

    If not for those eeevil hell bound folks who believe in the bondage of the will and the predestination of the Saints based on no conditions, we would never have even had the reformation. Is Luther hell-bound because he observed that “free-will” is a thing that does not exist? Is John Knox, that great preacher and reformer, and a Calvinist, going to hell because he fought long and hard for Christ in Scotland? What about Spurgeon? Is he going to hell because he said that free-will does not exist?

    I’ve never quite understood the hatred that people have to the doctrines of grace. Is it really so offensive when Jesus said, “There are some of you that believe not… Therefore I said unto you, no man can come unto me unless it is given unto him by my Father”? And even if you dislike these doctrines, why accuse the foundations of Protestantism of being born in heresy?

    Most of you folks don’t even comprehend what Calvinists actually teach, and instead build up so many strawmen that it is incredible to behold. Instead of pounding so heavy on the hate, and accusing others of being hateful, you should maybe try reading Luther’s “On the Bondage of the Will,” or Jonathan Edward’s treaties on Free-will, or perhaps Spurgeon’s own sermons on the matter. Actually take the time to get to know actual arguments of your opponents before going on these horrid rants.

    It is because I do understand this mere man named John Calvin that I now ask you Ricardo, if you stood before God today and he said, “Ricardo, why should I let you into heaven”? What would you say? Could you say in truth, I received your Son as my Savior by faith and then hear, come on home my son.

    Or would you say, I believed in the gospel of John Calvin, I believed you elected me and forced your grace upon me and I could not resist it. What would God say to that?

    Peace to you Ricardo, His peace.

  15. Truth Preacher says:

    First, I certainly WOULD “disparage” the “sovereignty of God” because that doctrine is a doctrine of devils. So I preach GOD IS NOT SOVEREIGN AND GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL. And I can PROVE IT BIBLICALLY. Therefore we need not fall prey to these blasphemers, who Paul would kick out of his churches, or their tactics. God is a King, a Ruler, and SUSTAINS ALL THINGS. He isn’t “sovereign” over them, nor does He “control” things. Such is blasphemy. It then puts ALL BLAME ON GOD FOR ALL THINGS THAT HAPPEN.

    John Piper has said and taught SO MANY STUPID THINGS over his life as a religious leader, that I have concluded that the man is plain stupid, and must be exposed to be exactly that. God does not “humble” Charismatics by making their children Calvinists! The Devil makes them Calvinists and RUINS THEM! Calvinism is the WORST DOCTRINE OF DEVILS TO EVER COME DOWN THE PIKE, AND GOD HATES AND ABHORS CALVINISM.

  16. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    TP

    >> First, I certainly WOULD “disparage” the “sovereignty of God” because that doctrine is a doctrine of devils. So I preach GOD IS NOT SOVEREIGN AND GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL.

    God is Sovereign, He is so Sovereign that He gave mankind FREE-WILL that that may choose or reject His Son Jesus Christ.

  17. Sheugnet says:

    I utterly reject the way the writer of this article ‘dramatized’ the words of John MacArthur. You are a deceiver Sir, and instead of writing for a christian blog you should try acting on stage. There you will be able to be even more entertaining than what you are trying to be on this blog.

  18. Sheugnet

    You should rather utterly reject someone’s testimony claiming that he has never rebelled and has always believed. John MacArthur is denying his own belief in total depravity. To have never rebelled and always believed does NOT amount to total depravity. MacArthur is a religious charlatan.

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