Eric von Anderseck – Mystery Christ ‘blowing his Trumpet’ – Identified

cecilia says:

thanks Debs! dit spaar my ure se werk! inderdaad ‘n kan vol wurms! ek sal net graag wil weet wat die vorige visioen/verskynsel in die wolke van Mosselbaai was – volgens hulle was dit trompette…

Jean says:

Here is a Pic of the “strumpet” in the clouds . . .

AND . . . THEY HAVE MADE A VIDEO ABOUT THIS !!!!

Dramatic Music …….”announcing a NEW ERA FOR THE CHURCH !… IN THE CLOUDS OF MOSSEL BAY”

Here’s the link:

On the top right of this page is this video -it Opens up in a new screen.

Elmarie A says:

This comment below from ARB still going on in beeld.

“Apostel Rina Bekker 2/14/2010 6:12:35 PM
Net soos wat die Fariseërs nie vir Jesus herken het toe Hy hier op aarde was nie, net so word Hy weer nie deur die wat hulself christene noem, herken nie. Dit is duidelik dat die wat hulself christene noem, nie eers hul Bybel ken nie. Jesus Christus was die Seun van God en nie ‘n profeet nie. Dit is werklik tragies, dat die mens so vasgevang is in tradisies, sy eie morele kode en valse kennis, dat die Lewende Woord van God, geen krag het in hul lewens nie. Ek het vlugtig deur hierdie briewe gelees, en staan verstom om te sien hoe mense die bloed van Christus vertrap. Christus het gesterf vir die 2de verbond. Jy wat so lustig hier voortborduur vanuit die donker kamers van jou siel, weet jy wat die 2de verbond is? Miskien moet ons besin oor wat geloof werklik is, en terwyl die deur van God se genade nog oop is, ingaan. Want die Bruidegom se koms is naby en dan sal dit te laat wees. As Christus se gelykenis en ewebeeld nie in jou hart weerspieel word nie, sal jy geen genade in die oe van ons Vader vind, op die dag van Sy wederkoms nie. Hy het Sy Christus vir ons gestuur om ons te red van die dinge van die vlees en die dinge van hierdie wereld. As jy die wereld weerspieel, is dit wat in jou hart is en vergeefs sal jy roep ‘Here, Here’ Vir die wat verstaan dat God Gees is en nie deur menslike oe en verstand verstaan kan word nie. My gebed is dat God se genade en vrede met jou sal wees. Dit is die wat God vresend is wat Hom ken; Geen mens kan se dat hy/sy werklik vir God KEN, en nie HOOR wat die GEES VAN GOD SE NIE. Nou weet ek ook dat baie nou weer op hul agterbene gaan spring en aanval. Miskien moet jy liewer op jou kniee kom, want die tyd is bitter kort om jou te besin.”

Bud Press says:

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him” (Matthew 24:23).

“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them” (Matthew 24:26).

Bud Press

Robbie says:

I am convinced the “Watchman” has the most dangerous task of all. Not just standing exposed on the walls but he has to watch for the enemy outside as well as inside the city walls. And the he has to first convince the city dwellers that it is indeed the enemy – in time that when the enemy arrives, all is prepared and equipped with armour.
It is not always pleasant to work for God on this earth… if it wasn’t for the retirement plan that is out of this world!!

I am next to you Gert

Christian says:

I believe it. I was in England last year, and God gave me dream of the heavens opening,and a bright light began to fill the sky, AND THEN I HEARD A TRUMPET and i was told to come to mossel bay

Timothy says:

It is interesting to see the right hand side of the trumpet photo was cut back, initially the sun was in the centre of the photo, removing proof that this is just a reflection of the sun reflecting towards the center of the SRL camera. This was pointed out to the “professional photographer” who still published the deception as supernatural.

Greg says:

Hi All, And Christian especially.

I was in Mossel Bay myself and met the apostles there. I am from Ireland. I was given a load of Eric VonAndersecks teachings on mp3 in order to try and convince me that he was the real apostle of the Lord on earth. He claims he was called to be an apostle in dreams wher he was visited by the apostle John and Enoch. Enoch said to him “Hail the deliverance one”. His teachings are off the charts biblically and he also believes that the bible as we have it is a lie of Satan. He believes that the books of Enoch(one which was written in the fifth century at least four hundred years after Revelation) are scripture equal to the books of the bible. He also believes that other books are scripture such as the books of Adam and eve. I have read some of them and they are just plain whacky.

So Christian, still want to go to Mossel bay? I believe by the way that eric VonAnderseck has moved there. Not sure if that is true. Can anyone verify it. if he did it is because they are mainly the ones that have been duped by him. America has sussed him out.

He believes that Enoch who was transformed into the angel Metatron and who is sitting on a throne on the left hand of God, is in charge of a creche in heaven where the souls of dead children go. He states that they must return to earth in human adult bodies to undergo a salvation experience. This belief about Metatron is from the Kaballah. He also believes that a book called the Shepard of Hermas is scripture and he teaches from it extensively.

He also states that we will be walking around with aliens on the earth who will be excepted into society just before the two witnesses come. So Christian, still think you should move to Mossel Bay? I think you should pray about it and seek advice.

Greg.

Elmarie A says:

Greg

The reporter of the Mossel bay advertiser featured in the article is a member of second8thweek. She unfortunately believes in a different gospel. Her name is Lucinda Viljoen;

Yes and the leader there in Mossel bay is called Apostel Rina Bekker

Thank you for the update!!

Greg says:

Hi Elmarie,

Yes I know about Rina Bekker I have met her myself and was in her home. She is a hospitable woman but is in deep error I believe. I have aquainted myself with their teachings very much and listened to hours of Eric VonAndersecks teachings. Actually it was his presence on Charisma Magazine forum and that of his followers that eventually led to it being shut down by the owners.

I and others debated him there on his teachings and his supporters mainly from South Africa came to his aid and swamped the forum. People had a go at the owners for allowing him so much space and they banned people and eventually shut it down. The administrators e-mailed when I asked why people were banned and they said the people had been insulting to the editors.

I have been following his developments for a year and a half mainly because of personal reasons. I have written to him personally also for righteousness sake. Many people have been hurt by his teachings and I believe marriages have been broken because of his movement. But the Lord knows the end from the beginning. I believe that his followers in South Africa, Mossel bay believe he is the man that will usher in the prophecies of Van Rensburg.

Greg.

Greg says:

Elmarie,

Thanks for the encouraging words. I will definitely contact Prof Malan. But you know, people who attend their meetings for the most part would not listen to anyone contradicting them. They are constantly being told that all other churches are false. You see at the heart of it the gospel they preach is that if you do not speak in tongues you have not received the spirit. They believe that speaking in tongues daily is the requirement for regeneration.

But they believe a lot more wrong stuff besides.The thing is that when people go to their meetings they get prayed with and speak in tongues so nothing you say will convince them they are wrong. They believe angels appear as purple and white globes and this confirms their truth. They believe that the breaking of bread is carnal and that the real breaking of bread is sharing the word when you get revelation. They believe that water baptism died out in the early church and that people who practice it now have no understanding. They tell you these things when you enroll in their courses. Believers have been very hurt by them. But I have written on the net to people warning them and some have said that my letters to them were timely and that they were disturbed in their spirits with the teachings and my letter confirmed it to them. These were people I wrote to on youtube. But Elmarie, I pray that the Lord will deal with them in his wisdom. He desires that none should perish.

The Lord bless you.

Greg.

Lodewyk says:

Die Here se n afvallige nasie soek en vra vir tekens en wonders. Net Hy weet die tyd en plek…..Siener het nie al sy voorspellings in die naam van die Here gedoen nie. Maar ek moet erken as mens na wereldgebeurtenisse kyk en hoe liberaal als geraak het is die einde nie ver weg nie…Ek sal oopkop bly maar altyd aan die Woord vaskleef

Timothy says:

I am indirectly involved in the group (committed wife). Apostle Rina Bekker, the Bishop of South Africa who manipulated the group into existence some 8 odd years ago has been democratically removed from her leadership role by a number of votes from the group. She has been followed up by Apostle Bishop Leonie, her (missionary truly Godly) husband might also have left home.

Astonishingly Bekker is following “almost all” of the teachings from von Andersec. I remember the persistence in their teaching about submitting to the leadership of Apostle, sorry Chief Apostle von Andersec. So the Bishop did not follow the first basic rule of unity, which is the utmost requirement. Remember those (all churches) not solely following the teachings of von Andersec are the False Religious System. Even though the leading sheep has gone astray the group just follows the new leader without even thinking twice – blinded beyond belief…. There is none as blind as those who do not want to see. May God open their eyes!!!

After she broke up with her husband, Lucinda, the newspaper editor behind the trumpets (see previous comments), she got married with the son of von Andersec who followed dad and mom. Unfortunately the marriage lasted only a few days, he is now back in America. This sounds like gossip, lets wait for any feedback on this open forum?

Greg says:

Elmarie,

I have written to prof Malan and he wrote me a gracious reply. He has not yet looked into the second8thweek group in Mossel Bay. The real thing is though that they will not prosper. They will eventually come to nothing through self destruction when the bitterness and sadness of failure in their mission sets in. it’s just a pity that so much time will have been wasted in peoples lives.

Greg.

Johan says:

Greg, I vaguely remember your visit here in Mossel Bay and was wondering, were you not the guy who was persuing the lovely blond girl who was not willing to marry you because of your spiritual differences? Sounds like some serious sour grapes now doesn’t it! ????? I’m not part of their group, but she is sound in faith man, have seen no error in anything that she preaches and love the stabilty in faith and single and sobermindedness she and others in their group maintains. They are a true blessing to be around with and there is an amazing unity in faith between all of them. Maybe absolutely worthwhile investigating. Why so violent Greg, you seem like a real angry man??? You should pray and ask God for wisdom and peace! He will help you and save your soul. Peace to you brother. J

Craig says:

Deborah,

A quick minor correction: Neethling’s first name is Bert with an “e.” I know only because I went ’round and ’round with him on the ETPW blog a while back.

Greg,

You wrote: “…I have aquainted myself with their teachings very much and listened to hours of Eric VonAndersecks teachings. Actually it was his presence on Charisma Magazine forum and that of his followers that eventually led to it being shut down by the owners.”

I was recently on the Charisma forum (on the Bill Winston article) and began a conversation with “Apostle” Eric von Anderseck. I publically called him false and his “church” a cult and the resulting conversations were deleted by Charisma. (Our subsequent posts went through and stayed on the site.) Yet, I saw recently the guy is still posting over there as “Apostle.”

I pointed out that he refers to himself as “Chief Apostle” and that C. Peter Wagner self-identies as “Presiding Apostle” of the NAR, and, given this, who should submit to whom? Disappointingly, he didn’t answer the question.

Thanks for posting this and exposing this cult. I plan on doing a post on Second 8th Week some time in the future. With the basis of his beliefs on extra-Biblical, pseudepigraphic material, his “church” cannot be anything but a cult.

Craig says:

Deborah,

It may be a while as I’ve got other things in the works right now.

I recently picked up James Charlesworth’s books on OT Pseudepigrapha which contain the Enoch books. I want to be fairly well acquainted with this material before I do a post on Second 8th Week.

A cursory look at the Charlesworth shows that the angel Metatron is in 3 Enoch which was written in the 5th or 6th Century AD (BCE). How can anyone think this could be any part of Scripture with such a late date of authorship?

Craig says:

Deborah,

Well, it’s all a bit confusing. First, the general definition of the Greek word “gnosis” is “knowledge” and “Gnosticism” is “secret knowledge.” The Apostle John in I John was writing specifically about 1st century Gnostics which were docetists believing all matter was evil and that Jesus Christ only ‘seemed’ to have a body. I John was also written to combat Cerinthianism (from Cerinthus, who was its primary mouthpiece) which believed that Jesus was merely a man who attained divinity at His baptism but that His divinity left Him sometime before the Cross so that He died a man. [This is discussed at the end of my first Bill Johnson article.]

I write all this to show that Gnosticism has many forms and has morphed throughout the centurys. Kabbalah/Qabalah is a form of Gnosticism. And, Kabbalah has found its way into Christian sources [see my Misplaced Trust, II article for a definite Kabbalah reference (divine spark) from Max Lucado!]

“Apostle” Eric is then by definition a Gnostic. According to von Anderseck, it’s this extra or ‘secret knowledge’ that he was given “as a word from the Lord” that’s required for salvation.

Similarly, the “modern prophetic”/NAR, etc. are all Gnostics as it’s the “new revelation” that shows they are “really in the faith” instead of those pesky ones with “religious spirits” who will be left out of these new “moves of God.”

You may be thinking of the Gnostics who adhere to the Nag Hammadi or “New Testament Apocrypha” like the “Gospel of Thomas,” etc.

Gnosticism, in a general sense, is behind all of esoteric/occult literature. Each school of thought has its own ‘secret knowledge’ available only to the initiated.

And going back to Enoch, to add even more confusion (well, hopefully, to add clarity), there are 3 books of Enoch: 1 Enoch; 2 Enoch; and, 3 Enoch each written at different times [2nd cent BC – 1 cent AD; late 1st cent AD; and 5th to 6th cent AD respectively] with different (unknown) authors. There’s a NT reference to the first book of Enoch in Jude 14 (which does not mean this book of Enoch is inspired as Scripture).

Greg says:

Craig,

Hi. Eric VonAnderseck has many teachings which are not in the public domain, some of which I have. I have tried debating with him in private to no avail which was a pity. The real issue that keeps his followers following him is that when they have their meetings people get prayed for by the leaders and they speak in tongues after a while. This is proof to them that his doctrines are correct. It doesn’t matter what you say to them after that it seems.

It seems that the tongues experience overules everything else.

Deborah: you asked if Gnostics value the books of Enoch? well I did check out the popularity of them among certain groups and it seems they are required reading among certain groups of freemasons as is the “shepard of hermas” which Eric teaches from extensively and believes to be scripture also. Supposedly some church fathers regarded it as inspired, but who were they anyway. I have read the this book and it does not mention Jesus name once even though it was written after 150 A.D apparently.

It also has similarities to the “Shepard of Hermes” which is about a Greek god or something like that.Could be wrong there.

Also it is interesting to note that were Eric is from is a hotbed of freemasonry. His testimony of being saved in Vietnam does not line up either when researched. I have his original testimony that he posted on the net and has since changed and he does not mention getting saved in Vietnam at all but does elsewhere on the net. He says he is a purple heart winner and was discharged from injury and trauma in Vietnam.

He also says he has not been in church for must be nearly thirty years now. Why not I ask.

Greg.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Greg says:Hi. Eric VonAnderseck has many teachings which are not in the public domain, some of which I have. I have tried debating with him in private to no avail which was a pity. The real issue that keeps his followers following him is that when they have their meetings people get prayed for by the leaders and they speak in tongues after a while. This is proof to them that his doctrines are correct. It doesn’t matter what you say to them after that it seems.

Apostle Eric says; Greg has no calling! He claims I have secret teachings, which is not true, and his testimony of meeting with the saints here in south Africa are an exaggeration. Greg is using this testimony as a point of authority for his own self worth not the kingdom of God.
About Charisma Magazine forum; I received an e-mail from Charisma that they got a virus from a guy named Steve (or Barry) in Australia (your friend.) and now you fabricate more things to add to your sin.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Greg wrote:

Craig,
Hi. Eric VonAnderseck has many teachings which are not in the public domain, some of which I have. I have tried debating with him in private to no avail which was a pity. The real issue that keeps his followers following him is that when they have their meetings people get prayed for by the leaders and they speak in tongues after a while. This is proof to them that his doctrines are correct. It doesn’t matter what you say to them after that it seems.
It seems that the tongues experience overules everything else.
Deborah: you asked if Gnostics value the books of Enoch? well I did check out the popularity of them among certain groups and it seems they are required reading among certain groups of freemasons as is the “shepard of hermas” which Eric teaches from extensively and believes to be scripture also. Supposedly some church fathers regarded it as inspired, but who were they anyway. I have read the this book and it does not mention Jesus name once even though it was written after 150 A.D apparently.
It also has similarities to the “Shepard of Hermes” which is about a Greek god or something like that.Could be wrong there.
Also it is interesting to note that were Eric is from is a hotbed of freemasonry. His testimony of being saved in Vietnam does not line up either when researched. I have his original testimony that he posted on the net and has since changed and he does not mention getting saved in Vietnam at all but does elsewhere on the net. He says he is a purple heart winner and was discharged from injury and trauma in Vietnam.
He also says he has not been in church for must be nearly thirty years now. Why not I ask.Greg.

Apostle Eric says; Greg, if you read and viewed my videos all things are explained in detail there. To speak evil of government is the ‘falling away’ the apostle Paul spoke of that would take place in the last times. Now consider what that means. That means that God will initiate apostles and calling them to sanctify His church as Paul wrote about. Please study your bible.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Eric
Eric has no calling. His life is one EPIC delusion of grandeur. His secret teachings are those which CONTRADICT scripture and lead people astray.

First I want to thank you Deb for allowing me to post my comments. I know that many people are afraid of “revelations” that do not fit into their present religious theological dialog, and that is understandable.
Apostle Eric says; 2 Cor.12:12 Truly the SIGNS OF AN APOSTLE were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Moses fiery bush experience was witness by nobody but himself, but God gave him witness to that event, but everybody hasn’t that identical experience. As my testimony reveals, God selects our experiences for us, we just don’t create them. The Lord elects to establish His people (not mine) in the fullness of His grace. So God set a SIGN in my calling and gave witness to this by His grace. If people disagree that is between them and God. Some people make it a mission in life to disapprove what they may not fully understand, and even use scriptures to justify their anger and hate.
Oh by the way that link on your website is not my website, it is a rogue sight to discredit this ministry. Someone cut and pasted our material and rearranged it to cast horror into peoples hearts. That is what Satan is good at.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Apostle Eric says;Thank you Jean, for we are not concealing anything as Greg professes. BTW Greg visited Mossel Bay with different motives. He was seeking a wife, but she wouldn’t consent to marrying Greg, and in his anger turned against anything she believed about Second 8th week. His motives are not pure and also claims this person was his deceived friend. Greg uses this anger as his justification.

Apostle Eric says; and the apostle Peter agrees (Acts 2:16-21)
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.
We are living in these times! Dreams and visions, Prophesy and yes tongues Isaiah 28:11 “For with STAMMERING LIPS and another tongue will he speak to

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Eric
Who appointed you an Apostle? No one Eric. You are FALSE.
The Bible however commands EACH AND EVERY BELIEVER to TEST people like yourself and prove them to be true or false – in your case you have been proven to be FALSE.
1BELOVED, DO NOT put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world. 1 John 4 (Amplified Bible)And all believers must hold FAST to the truth, because people like yourself come along and try steal it away from us –
9 He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error]. Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)The spirit that speaks through you Eric is a liar and
11 Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain. Titus 1:11 (Amplified Bible)Because you Eric speak lies that CONTRADICT scripture
13 And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error, Titus 1:9-16

Apostle Eric says; God calls people into His service not man!
The testimony of His grace in this calling is evidence to support the event as true and faithful.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Michael wrote:

Eric you said…Greg is using this testimony as a point of authority for his own self worth not the kingdom of God.
You contradict yourself…and speak with forked tongues…no pun intended…what demon spirit deluded you into setting yourself as an authority against the integrity of God’s word. Not only are you perverting scripture to suit YOUR SELF-CENTREDNESS you are a blatant hypocrite.You know you are false if you have only an ounce of honesty left…you need to repent and confess your sins and change your ways…get rid of false pride and come to the Saviour in a broken and contrite spirit.

Apostle Eric says; Michael, what exactly is your point of discernment by calling me a hypocrite? The videos and testimony was improved in sentence structure and quality but not in content if that is your foundation for your accusations towards me. And I did confess my sins and what is ‘false pride’?

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Eric
You quote Joel 2:28-31 incorrectly. This is for during the GREAT TRIBULATION, right before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Not now, so don’t quote it.
——-
Again you misquote Isaiah 28:11 (and by the way, Isiah 28:11 has nothing to do with Joel 2) anyhow….
Paul scolded the Corinthians for misusing the gift and making a mockery of the OT fulfilment of prophecy by Isaiah. This prophecy came about due to Israel’s disobedience to God. Paul points out the OT Scripture of Isaiah 28:11 to the Corinthians because they (being Jews) should know the Law well…but they don’t.
1 Corinthians 12:21; “In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord”.
Paul uses the reference to Isaiah to show them how they lack in knowing OT scripture, therefore they lack even more when it comes to the gospel. Isaiah specifically says that tongues will be used as a tool to preach the word of God to Israel, not the way the Corinthians are using it. It also says that even though they hear the word of God they still will not listen.
{Pats Eric on the head}… come now dude, you should know all this… after all you are annnnnn Appoostttttleeeeeeeee (all be it a false one) LOL

Apostle Eric says; Nice try Deb, but where did your get your teaching from? What church do you attend? Paul said this in, 1 CORINTHIANS 14:18 God, I speak with TONGUES MORE than ye all. HUmmmm, how does that fit into your theology? It seems to me that you started your own religion denying apostles, resisting the holy Ghost, demonising prophesy, and breaking the bone of scripture from the Godhead. Quoting scripture doesn’t guarantee proper interpretation. That is why you must be taught by those called into His government as Peter said. 2 PETER 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable WREST, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Eric
>> God calls people into His service not man!
The testimony of His grace in this calling is evidence to support the event as true and faithful.
Impossible Eric. Jesus Christ physically laid hands on all GENUINE Apostles and other apostles came to be by having hands layed on them by Apostles who were touched by Jesus Christ. Do you notice that you are not part of these group of Apostles Eric? Therefore there are NOT an a APOSTLES Eric… In fact you have more chance of falling pregnant, than EVER becoming an Apostle.
God did not call you…. it was your ‘imagination’ that called you into a dead office.

Apostle Eric says; The grace of God validates the calling Jesus Christ gave, and this was confirmed by the apostle John of the bible and the apostle Peter. My testimony bears that out clearly.
Please don’t fear the things you don’t understand Deb and where did Jesus Christ physically lay hands on all GENUINE Apostles?

Apostle Eric’s Testimony Part 3
[URL REMOVED]
Apostle Eric’s Testimony Part 4
[URL REMOVED]

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

“TELL THEM I AM COME TO BRING LIFE … I AM COME TO BRING THEM OUT OF DARKNESS. LOVE JESUS.” — [URL REMOVED]
Amen, for the Lord is fulfilling this right before your eyes! His grace has sustained me to see this miracle.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Christian wrote:

I believe it. I was in England last year, and God gave me dream of the heavens opening,and a bright light began to fill the sky, AND THEN I HEARD A TRUMPET and i was told to come to mossel bay

Apostle Eric says; Amen, another SIGN of confirmation which many have confessed to having. God is truly moving, but only those that have ears to hear and eyes to see will respond to Him.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Elmarie wrote:

Thank you DTW. What a can of worms it is. I just hope Rina Bekker and those who support her would reads this.

Apostle Eric says; Rina Bekker is no longer part of this ministry. See this link!
Stewardship and the Godhead and the House of God;
[REMOVED URL]
Apostle Eric says; We will include any names of those who depart from Christ and yet claim apostolic authority apart from His kingdom and sanctified government which SIGN the Lord of hosts has granted through this stewardship and trust of His grace.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Eric Eric, but as a (false) Apostle YOU SHOULD KNOW
That PAUL WAS A GENUINE APOSTLE? Right? Right. Apostles and Prophets were given THESE GREAT GIFTS to go out and START THE GREAT COMMISSION and on them was built the FOUNDATION of the church. After the BIBLE WAS written, these TEMPORARY gifts (tongues) CEASED 1 Corinthians 13:8 ”Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].”
You are the one who started your own religion Eric with followers an’ all and then self-labelled yourself an Apostle too. And when QUOTING SCRIPTURE YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GUARANTEE that you are quoting it correctly. What kinda of an (apostle) would do otherwise… errrr…. you maybe?
You appear be have a slight case of the Megalomaniacs, this usually happens when you accept false spirits by the name of Metatron into your life and they take over and frizzle the mind. BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS THIS: It can be cured by simply accepting Jesus Christ into your life and rebuking these demons that crept out of the book of Enoch into your psyche.
>> Peter said. 2 PETER 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable WREST, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Yes that’s what you are doing and notice what it says at the end of the verse… unto their OWN DESTRUCTION.

Deb. says in her interpretation of the Amplified bible: After the BIBLE WAS written, these TEMPORARY gifts (tongues) CEASED”

Apostle Eric says; Paul never implied that position of “cease” (read the KJV). We are in the 2nd covenant still and require these tokens for your faith to be made perfect in Christ. Knowledge alone is not truth nor is your passion charity. If passions were charity then you have fallen short of the glory of God.
Notice what Peet said of your “CHARITY”…” This was my first time on your blog and I am amazed by the extent of criticism used to express discernment in your comments on each and every topic discussed. Since when is discernment a “license” to criticize, judge and condemn (almost) every ministry (or so-called ministry) on the planet. (Not that some of them does not deserve it!)”
Apostle Eric says;This is because you cannot have true charity apart from truth as Paul said, “REJOICES IN THE TRUTH”. My point here is that when educated people seek to understand the mysteries of Christ they probe the scriptures to logically assemble a form of belief and then associate that knowledge with their own passions as if the consenting of the inspiration somehow attaches itself to the soul for true faith. Paul said that they are proud, being self assuming of their comprehension. 1 TIMOTHY 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but DOTING ABOUT questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
This is what I see here on this forum! Much suspicion with little faith and I agree with Peet.
What the apostle Peter said also applies to those taht do not have the grace of that calling
ACTS 8:21 Thou hast neither PART NOR LOT in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Perhaps Greg influenced your position and you prematurely judged this ministry and my calling of God.

Oh! One more thing, calling someone a CULT is a cheap way to exercise your faith. First of all every denomination would fall under that category including yourself. Name calling is usually the last resort of defence. HUmmm

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Greg says:Eric, I have much more to say and ask you if you are willing but first can we start with the above.

Greg says: Eric, I have much more to say and ask you if you are willing but first can we start with the above.

Apostle Eric says; This is my point, thank you Greg, that you have assumed so much and have so little, whereas I have posted everything that is relevant to the grace of God. Sorry Greg that time of dialogue has long passed. I would suggest you get on with your life before it is to late. The only reason you are looking for dialogue now is that you wish to settle your own conscience. We have openly posted everything and my time must be to inform those that are hungering and thirsting after righteousness, not just to “talk”.

Michael says:

Debs do not waste your time with this man…he is delusional and cannot see…pray for him…and the less said the better as he will respond and defend any argument.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Greg’s QUESTIONS=Q Apostles ANSWERS=A
Q1. Incidentally increasing in what may I ask? in number? or in personal growth in Christ?
A1. In number and in fruit. We have confirmed 31 elders in 2010 and 1 in 2011.
JOHN 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth MUCH FRUIT: for without me ye can do nothing.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear MUCH FRUIT; so shall ye be my disciples.
TITUS 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain ELDERS in every city, as I had appointed thee:
PHILIPPIANS 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the BISHOPS and deacons:
Q2. Here you are saying she has departed from Christ and those that followed with her?
A2. Please check this link; Stewardship and the Godhead and the House of God
[URL REMOVED]
Q3. And I do know from your teachings Eric that you say that those who do not recognise your stewardship have a “REPROBATE” faith, a very serious charge indeed. So the question is, are they in or are they out?
A3. Yes, as the apostle Paul says and the apostle John.
1 JOHN 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were not all of us.
1 TIMOTHY 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and ALEXANDER; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
ROMANS 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause DIVISIONS and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Paul listed those that separated from government. The list is about 7 elders and one bishop.
Q4. Also does that that include her son and her daughter who you also ordained apostles? Or are they still with you?
A4. A group left but some are returning now.
2 TIMOTHY 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in ASIA be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
Was it Paul or his doctrine?
Q5. So if they have departed from Christ how can they be growing in either number or personal growthIs the lady I went to visit in South Africa who was your Chief evangelist still with you or did she follow her friend Ms Bekker?
A5. The evangelist is still labouring with us and is married.
Q6. 1. How did I exaggerate my meeting with with your followers in South Africa?
A6. Matching your testimony with those that saw you here. They all said you exaggerated the facts to cast a dark shadow on this ministry.
Q7. In that alone can you show me biblically were meetings of the saints are closed shops, or where it is prescribed to have two classes of meetings for different types of believers?
A7. That was a personal choice not a revelation!
GALATIANS 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of REPUTATION, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Q8. I also had MANY discussions with my host about your teachings which include the fact that you say that certain books should be included in the bible such as the books of Enoch and the “Lost books of Eden” because they are scripture.
A8. I stand in the confession of what Paul spoke. 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 All scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
There was a certain denomination that preached against other ancient writings which has evil affected many minds.
Q9. Which may I say you need to discuss with your Evangelist because she says that you are not saying that and you are not saying they are equal with scripture, but I have a teaching of yours called “Other writings” which clearly shows you are saying that.
A9. Thank you for counselling me on how to function in my calling.
Q10. As regard “Secret teachings” that you say dont exist, wher can anyone access your teaching about Enoch being in charge of the creche in heaven that looks after the souls of dead children that have not undergone a salvation experience. And that at the time of the rapture they will return to earth in “Adult bodies” to undergo a salvation experience.
Where can one access the teaching that you name “Melchisideks” mother and father even though “Hebrews” says it is unknown.
A10. We are making available to the public everything but it takes time to record and set things up. Our new magazine sight will carry those needs.
Q11. Where can one access the teaching where you say that at the time of the “two witnesses” we will be walking side by side with aliens with tails who have been accepted into society through the tricks of Satan.
A11. The Book of Revelation will also be available where everything is explained.
Q12. Where can one access the teaching that At the time of the rapture that we can choose whatever body we want to live in in age terms either an old body such as sixty years old or a young body and then we can have it changed from one to another.
A12. Hummmm? Not sure of your inquiry.
But Paul says, 1 CORINTHIANS 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be CHANGED,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED.
Rev.7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Q13. Incidentally you say above that your apostolic calling was confirmed by Peter in a dream but in your testimonies on the net it was from John and Enoch. In fact I noted mentally that even though you claim “Chief apostleship” like Peter, it was in fact John and Enoch and angels that imparted your calling. I have your original testimony on file.
A13. View it again!

Q14,15 Also…can you PLEASE answer me two question in regards to your initial salvation experience.
1. where was the hill you used to go to to pray every day or “often” where you encountered the Holy Spirit and saw the trees bending and you spoke in tongues..was that in Vietnam or America?
A14. Home town in Michigan USA. We omitted the name of the town for a personal reason.
2. What church did you go to where you said you brought more converts in than all the deacons put together and what was the name of the leader of that church who said” I guess your’e going to leave now”
A15. Southern Baptist church in Kansas under Pastor Wooderson (sp). I also did street witnessing there and California and Michigan. Maria and I would preach to prostitutes and go in bars witnessing, sometimes to large groups of people. When I was innocent of church doctrine I shared this with the pastor of the Baptist church which was red-in-the-face angry, and I was lost to why he was so upset with me.
He didn’t believe in tongues.LOL
Q16. And 3. If you maintain that only apostles can confirm if a persons faith in Christ is genuine then how do you know that you really led people to Christ in that Church you left, because you did not become an apostle till years later. Did you go back and confirm their faith?
A16. Thats correct, I had to be converted and that is seen in the testimony. I was still preaching the “OLD SYSTEM” gospel. Though I was filled with the Holy Ghost, God had to re-educate me in His covenant and that began with His grace. He opened my eyes and through dreams and visions (Heb. 6:4-5) and the powers of the world to come, sanctified my faith and concealed me until the time when I would enter my lot.
This ministry began to slowly morph and we had to define what God is doing to the general church world, and that is not easy, and we had to perfect things in the web-sights for clarification where some think it is a contradiction. Now over 10 years later and more computer savvy we are on task with the Lord’s help.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Burning Lamp wrote:

Every cult is built upon extra-biblical revelation and usually one person – but here we have a twist with multiple persons, both male and female. Interesting.
They have an element of truth, just enough to give them legitimacy to the undiscerning.
Cults = Bible +Simple equation.

Apostle Eric says: There’s that accusation of ‘Cult’ again, yet you cannot define what it is exactly. Every denomination falls under the title of “CULT” including ‘Burning Lamp’. Your references of justification are a Seminary dictionary and not the Spirit of faith. That is a cultural prejudice which religious persuasions carry and it is harmful to your thinking. Not all denominations have your brand of theology. Hummmm

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Michael
I wanted him to comment just so that I would get him to spill the beans on what he really teaches. I emailed Greg who came in and asked Eric all these very serious questions – which Eric will now not answer.
But it’s fine because anyone reading this blog can clearly see that Eric is 2 cans short of a 6 pack. And that is what I wanted people to see. Mission accomplished. Now Eric can run along and go frolic elsewhere.

Apostle Eric says; Ahhhh that is charity short on Christ!Pat-on-head.LOL

Burning Lamp says:

I never went to seminary, in fact, I wouldn’t be caught dead there because I have often heard it called a “cemetery”.

The Gospel is very simple. Nothing beyond the Bible is needed. Self-made extrabiblical apostles add to the Bible. It lifts up the flesh and sets up a pecking order. It opens up a can of worms that leads to error and false teaching. Call it what you want, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck even if you call it a cow.

I will give Eric credit in the fact that he seems like a pleasant enough guy and seems to be enjoying his “apostleship” and he isn’t so puffed up that he won’t come here and dialog. Who knows? There may be hope for him yet!

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

BL >> Who knows? There may be hope for him yet!
We can only pray!

Apostle Eric says; Thank you Deb!

Michael says:

Eric …do not be so (fakely) simplistic…which is the same strategy that Satan tried to tempt the Lord in the desert with…in fact this is just the way he fools us…manipulating scipture interlectually is his strategy…no one can understand scripture until they really die to a sinful self…absolutely demolish the old man and invite the Saviour in to take control…even study of sciptures and theology cannot do that…ironically it can evoke spiritual pride.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Greg wrote:

Eric,
Apostle Eric vonAnderseck wrote:
Apostle Eric says; This is my point, thank you Greg, that you have assumed so much and have so little, whereas I have posted everything that is relevant to the grace of God. Sorry Greg that time of dialogue has long passed. I would suggest you get on with your life before it is to late. The only reason you are looking for dialogue now is that you wish to settle your own conscience. We have openly posted everything and my time must be to inform those that are hungering and thirsting after righteousness, not just to “talk”.Eric, if it is the case that you have openly posted everything for those who are hungering and thirsting after righeousness then were are the teachings I have that you teach. From the books of Enoch? in particular about the creche in heaven and Melchisidek’s father and mother?
The teaching about “unconverted believers” where you say that before the day of Pentecost Peter was a “Tare” which incidentally is a child of Satan, but after Pentecost he was saved. Even though Jesus told him before Pentecost that his name was written in the Lambs book of life? And you teach that he denied Knowing Jesus before Pentecost because he didn’t have the spirit but after Pentecost he couldn’t be fooled or tricked into a mistake again. And you use this teaching I believe to point to your own infallibility as an apostle. Obviously you have never read Galatians.
The time of dialogue Eric is not over because it never began. You cannot debate scripture because you don’t know it. You cannot even see something as simple as the contradictions in the psuedapigraha against the truth of scripture. For example the fact that in the lost books of Eden Adam is depicted as committing suicide and offering his own blood up to God as an atoning sacrifice for his sin in the garden. Since when was suicide an acceptable sacrifice to God for our sin, and how come the lord showed Adam and then Able the acceptable sacrifice which was from the flocks. Thats right Eric, animal sacrifices in our stead untill the time of Jesus. This is basic stuff Eric to any new believer even.
If you are all about posting truth for seekers than why do you bother coming on places like this and defending yourself? When your’e teachings are questioned you say nothing, and you certainly can’t challenge them on any of your sites. And one more thing Eric…why do you never make live videos of yourself teaching??? and why do you not make yourself known to the churches in America?? and why don’t you go on the t.v on the Christian stations and go public??
Because you know you would get challenged beyond your ability to endure, and your followers would see it.
Eric, as the main teacher in our church said the other night, all corrupt systems contain within itself the seeds of its own destruction. The corrupt systems eat themselves out from within. Such is what will happen to yours of second8thweek. It has already begun. You have lost your right hand men in South Africa, your most staunchest defenders. And when more of your followers will read these sites and see your lack of willingness to discuss your teachings with those who challenge you, than more of those you will lose too.
And as regard my feelings about you Eric, are they love or hate? All I can say is that long ago on bended knees I prayed through deep tears and through gritted teeth ” Lord! crush this mans ministry!!! but not him. Destroy this mans ministry off the face of the earth!!! but not him. And I pray oh Lord that you will use me to do it! or to be part of your plan in doing it! Amen”
You need to deeply repent Eric. And when and if you do I will be the first to embrace you.Greg.

Q:Eric, if it is the case that you have openly posted everything for those who are hungering and thirsting after righeousness then were are the teachings I have that you teach. From the books of Enoch?
A: I answered that in the previous post.
Q: in particular about the creche in heaven and Melchisidek’s father and mother?
A: Yes! That is included in the Enoch videos.
Q:The teaching about “unconverted believers” where you say that before the day of Pentecost Peter was a “Tare” which incidentally is a child of Satan, but after Pentecost he was saved.
A: Hummm, I never said that Greg. Jesus was telling him that conversion is after His resurrection. Now Peter teaches that gospel to us today. You need the covenant to be converted, not just the historical facts but following His living Record (1John 5)
Q:Even though Jesus told him before Pentecost that his name was written in the Lambs book of life?
A: Hummm, where does Jesus say that? You may have to help me here.
Q: And you teach that he denied Knowing Jesus before Pentecost because he didn’t have the spirit but after Pentecost he couldn’t be fooled or tricked into a mistake again. And you use this teaching I believe to point to your own infallibility as an apostle. Obviously you have never read Galatians.
A: It is the grace of God, not the person, so that same measure that was bestowed on the apostles is functioning today, remember Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever. Don’t you feel that the souls today are in need to that same understanding of the gospel as the first church.
2 CORINTHIANS 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the SAME GRACE also.
Q:The time of dialogue Eric is not over because it never began. You cannot debate scripture because you don’t know it. You cannot even see something as simple as the contradictions in the psuedapigraha against the truth of scripture. For example the fact that in the lost books of Eden Adam is depicted as committing suicide and offering his own blood up to God as an atoning sacrifice for his sin in the garden. Since when was suicide an acceptable sacrifice to God for our sin, and how come the lord showed Adam and then Able the acceptable sacrifice which was from the flocks. Thats right Eric, animal sacrifices in our stead untill the time of Jesus. This is basic stuff Eric to any new believer even.
A: I can see you never studied it, but you assume an authority hoping to preserve your own brand of Jesus.
Q: If you are all about posting truth for seekers than why do you bother coming on places like this and defending yourself?
A: For so revealed. EZEKIEL 2:5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will FORBEAR, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.
7 And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will FORBEAR: for they are most rebellious.
Q: When your’e teachings are questioned you say nothing, and you certainly can’t challenge them on any of your sites.
A: You mean like Charisma? A virus was sent by your friend Steve Page or (Barry?) which I was informed of the forum being shut down. They were not happy about it. His actions were not biblical nor Christian at best. That is a good example of the spirit he was working with all along.
Q: And one more thing Eric…why do you never make live videos of yourself teaching???
A: We do!
Q: and why do you not make yourself known to the churches in America??
A: We do! And have many apostles working there.
Q: and why don’t you go on the t.v on the Christian stations and go public??
A: That depends on the will of God for the future. But we were on Tv in Michigan and I taught at the University of Michigan (Flint) giving lectures *80’s. We had also a radio broadcast there as will as North Carolina.
Lectures, mailers, TV, and radio, with internet. And that was just the start. I have been ordained and licensed by 3 churches. I have a list of confirmations. These things are not my confirmations but God is the One that has given me many visions and dreams of these things. Watch the video!
Q: Eric, as the main teacher in our church said the other night, all corrupt systems contain within itself the seeds of its own destruction. The corrupt systems eat themselves out from within. Such is what will happen to yours of second8thweek.
A: You need to read your bible here Greg. God causes a separation for perfection and sanctification. Satan seeks to divide by aspirations but God for perfection.
Q:It has already begun.
A: LOL.
Q: You have lost your right hand men in South Africa, your most staunchest defenders.
A: Only the Chaff. God gave a word of knowledge regarding these things. You know the gifts of the Spirit! Yes God still speaks to us today. This is called the “Hour of Temptation” So beware that this is the testing you are now facing today. There are 8 things happening at this time;
1. Beginning of Sorrows
2. Jubilee of the Priesthood
3. Gathering of Israel
4. Separation of Wheat and tares
5. Restoration of the Church
6. Day of Visitation
7. Hour of Temptation 8. Second8thWeek of Enoch

Including the 3rd day of Hosea 6 and

Q: And when more of your followers will read these sites and see your lack of willingness to discuss your teachings with those who challenge you, than more of those you will lose too.
A: Are you a prophet, Greg, or is this your way of casting evil suspicions?
Q: And as regard my feelings about you Eric, are they love or hate?
A: It is not Christ, Greg, but a religious zeal to justify yourself before men. Paul did not chase the Pharisees around, but the Pharisees chased Paul around calling him a sect. ACTS 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this SECT, we know that every where it is spoken against.

Q: All I can say is that long ago on bended knees I prayed through deep tears and through gritted teeth ” Lord! crush this mans ministry!!!
A:LOL Acts7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their TEETH.
Q: but not him. Destroy this mans ministry off the face of the earth!!! but not him. And I pray oh Lord that you will use me to do it! or to be part of your plan in doing it! Amen”
A: Did you bind yourself also under a curse? ACTS 23:12 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a CURSE, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.
Q:You need to deeply repent Eric. And when and if you do I will be the first to embrace you.
A: OK! Thanks for the heads up Greg. I will to the same when you are converted.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Michael
Don’t worry, so is mine. I’m too type at the speed of lightening and then go back and read Klingon instead of English ahahha. If you make any mistakes and you’ve pressed send, just make another comment with your correction and I will go and fix it for ya.

Apostle Eric says;Deb is a Star Trekkie! We have the whole series here. Space is not the final frontier though.lol

Greg says:

Eric,

Its late so I will just pick a random few of you answers.
I asked:
Q:The teaching about “unconverted believers” where you say that before the day of Pentecost Peter was a “Tare” which incidentally is a child of Satan, but after Pentecost he was saved.

And you replied Eric:
A: Hummm, I never said that Greg. Jesus was telling him that conversion is after His resurrection. Now Peter teaches that gospel to us today. You need the covenant to be converted, not just the historical facts but following His living Record (1John 5)

“I never said that…” tut tut, oh yes you did Eric.
Here are some extracts from your teaching…..”UNCONVERTED BELIEVERS”

Let your own words speak for themselves:

(Unconverted Believers) by Eric VonAnderseck

Jesus said to Peter, “But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren,” Lk. 22:32.

In Mt.16:17 we see that Peter had already made a confession of faith concerning Jesus Christ. Jesus had asked Peter, “Who do men say that I the Son of man am?” And Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God!!!” And Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven.”

The grace of God was present to make the knowledge of Christ living to Peter. Peter yielded his will to the grace of God, and this is why he could make the confession of faith, and Jesus said that he was blessed because the Father had revealed Christ to Him. Yet, regardless of this confession, Jesus later said that Peter was not converted.

Michael says:

Eric…SPIRITUAL PRIDE

Some types and diagnostics of spiritual pride
What does pride look like? Spiritual pride is secretive, lurking deep in the human heart, and hard to uncover (Jeremiah 17:9), even when
we examine ourselves. We can look for some signs of pride like the following, many of which of course are inter-related (and some items
could fit under more than one category). Some of these could apply to other forms of pride (intellectual, personal, etc.) as well. This list is
not complete or exhaustive; you can probably identify other forms and symptoms of pride and list them here.
Identify some key forms of pride that you see in your life from the list below. Pray about them; share about them with each other, in order
to pray for each other and to make yourself accountable to each other. Pray with thanksgiving and submission to God in specific ways
contrary to your particular issues with pride.
1. Definition of pride:
2. General approach to spiritual life. What your spiritual life
is based on.
• intellectualism: basing your spiritual life on knowledge or
only on intellectual experience – of the Bible, theology,
etc.; lack of dynamic spiritual life with God, lack of emotion
or desire toward God
• emotionalism: emotion taken too far; spiritual life becomes
subjective and self-centered, not biblically based and Godcentered;
your spiritual life is based on your own feelings
and emotions.
• legalism: Basing the quality of your spiritual life on the
things you do or don’t do, rather than on God’s grace, your
closeness to Him
• hypocrisy: This is more than just failing to practice what you
preach. This is general inconsistency between what you
profess and how you live; or selectively choosing what to
believe or obey, and often with good ways of rationalizing
your choices.
• self-righteousness: More easily recognizing faults in
others than in yourself; being blind to your own faults
• blind enthusiasm – zeal without knowledge. A trap that
many young or immature believers fall into, but older ones
as well. We make pronouncements about things we don’t
really understand. We act enthusiastic but it is grounded
in emotionalism rather than biblical understanding. We
mistake emotionalism for faith. We fail to respect or seek
spiritual wisdom and maturity.
3. intellectual-spiritual pride (general)
• intellectualism
* basing your spiritual life on how much you know;
showing off your knowledge
* rationalism: relying on head knowledge; cold intellectual
faith; unemotional spiritual life, little emotion or desire
toward God
* supposedly being objective, but focused on your intellect
and not God-focused
• lack of intellectual humility. Believing you can, do, or
should expect to, understand everything; getting easily
frustrated or impatient when you don’t understand
something; assuming your understanding is automatically
superior to others, especially those who disagree with you
• lack of intellectual honesty. Using dishonest, false,
emotionalistic, simplistic, or illogical reasoning (which are
actually worldly methods), for example:
* false appeal to authority
To justify yourself, you appeal to religious or scriptural
authority improperly and/or ignore what you need to
change; or appealing to the authority of pastors or of
positions of service – but in a worldly way. (e.g., “obey
me because I’m the lead

Michael says:

Yes…read Jeremiah 17:9…something we all should with honesty and deep prayer…if more Christians did this it would uncover a lot of our heart problems.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Michael wrote:

1. Definition of pride:
2. General approach to spiritual life. What your spiritual life
is based on.

Apostle Eric says; You mean ‘hypocrite’! Those that use the moral-code in place of covenant of faith.
You said though “false Pride”, what is false pride? Is there then a true pride which you tried to define? Ok, maybe I have ‘false pride’ which means I have humbleness of mind to grace and you stand in true pride as resisting grace by your logical theological prejudices.

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

[EDITED by DTW – DELETED because I felt it’s vile contents was not worth showing to the public]

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

[EDITED by DTW – DELETED because no one cares]

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Eric
REPEAT:
So Peter, John or Enoch (who ever) appeared in a dream and appointed you an Apostle. Incredible (lol). How do you know it was REALLY them? Tell me how you tested that it was not SATAN who appeared to you in your dream? You do not know what any of these men looked like.

Apostle Eric says: And how do you know if God really spoke to Moses out of the burning bush seeing you were not there also? And why didn’t Peter “rebuke the Devil” in the vision/trance of acts ACTS11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for NOTHING COMMON OR UNCLEAN hath at any time entered into my mouth. How did Peter or Moses “test” the spirits?
Your question is self revealing, that you never had a divine dream or vision, so this challenges your theology which denies such manifestations. I gottha cornered here Deb!

Apostle Eric vonAnderseck says:

Michael wrote:

Pride is the most deceptive sin of all…it even hides itself in virtues and graces and yes we all fall victim to it and yes it is the last sin we recognise and denounce…that’s why we have got to search our hearts and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal if there be any wicked way in me…thoughts,attitudes,disposition etc.
There is in a sense “good” pride;
A reasonable or justifiable self-respect; or improper and excessive self-esteem known as conceit or arrogance. The apostle Paul expresses a positive kind of pride when speaking of confidence in Christians (2 Cor 7:4) or of strength in the Lord (2 Cor 12:5, 9). However, it is the latter sinful meaning of pride which most frequently appears in the Bible, both in the OT and the NT.
The 10 Hebrew and 2 Greek words generally used for pride refer to being high or exalted in attitude, the opposite of the virtue of humility, which is so often praised and rewarded by God. One other Greek word refers to a person’s being puffed up or inflated with pride or egotism. The idea is that one gives the impression of substance but is really filled only with air (see, e.g., 1 Cor 5:2; 8:1; 13:4; Col 2:18).
Pride is basically a sin of attitude and of the heart and spirit. Hence one reads, “Haughty eyes and a proud heart, the lamp of the wicked, are sin” (Prv 21:4). Ecclesiastes 7:8 speaks of “proud in spirit” and the psalmist declares, “O Lord, my heart is not proud, or my eyes haughty” (Ps 131:1 nasb). Pride is cited in the two lists of the most glaring sins in the Bible. Along with the sins for which God is going to judge the Gentiles, one finds insolence, arrogance, and boasting (Rom 1:30). Included with the sins that will be prevalent in the last days, Paul includes boasting, arrogance, and conceit (2 Tm 3:2, 4).
As so many of the sins of attitude, pride cannot remain internalized. It can infect one’s speech; and boasting is one way by which this sin can appear in one’s speaking (see the passages referred to above and also Mal 3:13). Pride can also appear in the way one looks at another person. Hence the Scriptures speak of “haughty eyes” in Proverbs 6:17, or, as some translators render it, “a proud look.” The psalmist speaks of a person with “haughty looks and arrogant heart” as one he cannot endure (Ps 101:5; see also Prv 30:13.) Pride may also take the ugly form of contemptible treatment of others (Prv 21:24). One of the illustrations of this in the Bible is the way in which the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders treated and spoke of those beneath their social level (e.g., Mt 23:6–12; Jn 9:34). They especially despised tax collectors and sinners.
However having said that I believe that even good pride is deceptive in itself and all pride (like the old self/man must die) so the the Lord Jesus Christ can live in me…total surrender and obedience…only then I am I truly free.

Michael wrote: Pride is the most deceptive sin of all…it even hides itself in virtues and graces.
Apostle Eric says: Michael, your using definitions as a weapon and self justification to resist grace. Pride is the opposing power to the presence of Grace and cannot hide in grace. Is Satan hiding in Christ? 2 CORINTHIANS 6:15 And what CONCORD hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
Michael wrote:… that’s why we have got to search our hearts and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal if there be any wicked way in me…thoughts,attitudes,disposition etc.
Apostle Eric says: that is a noble thought, but holds no substance, because everyone thinks that some how the Holy Ghost will do this which is an evident failing on your part. When you use your own soul as the record of faith you are manifesting the spirit of antichrist. Jesus Christ is the true Record and only Way.
Michael wrote:The apostle Paul expresses a positive kind of pride…
Apostle Eric says: that is an assumed perspective of your own making to justify your feelings of self worth. Now that is pride (Satan’s influence).
Michael wrote: One other Greek word refers to a person’s being puffed up or inflated with pride or egotism. The idea is that one gives the impression of substance but is really filled only with air.
Apostle Eric says: Truth is not a mixed concept of earthly things or approved laws of man. That is foolishness with God, because it is the wisdom of this world tethered to the moral-code of man to find equity in place of His peace.
So in essence anything outside of your theology circle is evil and pride! Yet there are those on this forum that will contribute a perspective that differs from yours to some degree or another.
The church needs apostles to direct the saints in their priesthood and wisdom for growth. The absence of apostles is self evident in the diversity of denominations and doctrines. Pastors have sought to replace apostles but without success. The Lord said the church is in darkness, not me, so if you are hearing the voice of the Lord in truth you will come into covenant.

Michael says:

When you replace,add to,substitute or even idolise or even slightly elevate any man be it Enoch,Moses,Elijah,Peter,Paul or anybody so as to water down the Saviour and the Cross and all that He and His accomplishments are you are in very dangerous ground. This is where the false religions have their origin.
As for me…Phillipians 3:10 is all I want and need…that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed unto his death.
Anything else fades into total insignificance…it really makes me angry when false teachers try to even lead the elect away from this truth.

Eric if you really believe all this then it’s your soul at stake but you have absolutely no right to dish your poison out to the gullible masses.
This really makes me very angry.
True Christians we really have to wage prayer warefare against this teaching and ask God to intervene and change this man and save his soul.

Michael says:

Eric…forget all this garbage and interlectualism…Christ came into this world to save sinners like ME and You and all we need is Him. I repeat that is all we need…period. You are a clever…studied man…do you really think God is like you…a megalomaniac that enjoys confusing people like the simple and honest and straight forward…people struggle today to hear the SIMPLE message of SALVATION because of people like you. There are others with another gospel, the Benny Hinns the Hagins and a myriad of others that appeal to man’s need to improve but are poisened in vanity and confusion. Read the scripures simply and honestly without putting deep interlectual questions that confuse and lead people away from the Cross. When I read the Gospels His messages were simple…especially in the days when He walked the dusty streets of Jerusalem and Galilee.
It is in my imperfection that I love Him because the bottom line is He really all I need… and I truly have grown to love because He really knows and cares…even my genuine brothers and sisters do not do that for me with all their good intentions. As I have grown in Christ is has become more clear to me how imperfect we all are and that He wants us to be only Christ centred because He is the Saviour and only in Him alone do we have life.

Gavin says:

Goodness me Deb, Greg en Michael??? Read through these posts and all I can say is that hatred is oozing out of all of you like puss from a badly infected wound! Where is the Love of God??? Why don’t you find yourself a better purpose in life. Time is precious man and the bible says that we should Redeem the Time! They say bad pubicity is good publicity and therefor I investigated the Second8thWeek Website and the things they preach there is sound and powerful man. You sound like a bunch of seriously bitter angry souls. You can all learn a whole lot of wholesome things from him when it comes to Faith in God. What are your callings? From what basis have you appointed yourself as “discerners”? Who called and appointed you, for I see little of the character and nature of Christ in you all. This is a rediculous website, BUT a sweet pointer to something bigger and deeper! Go have a look at the Second8thWeek site. Cool stuff you preaching apostle Eric, don’t stop, I could feel it touch my heart in a good way! Gav

Monique Babst says:

Dear Greg, Michael, Deborah

While reading through this whole discussion I saw the following: Hate, Mocking, Ridicule, Maliciousness and Pride. I saw people feeding of each other’s confirmations; making each one feel more justified in his/her principles.

The Saints of the Second 8th Week can talk and talk and talk to you, but the thing is, you have already made up your mind. When you invite us to talk to you, it’s not to listen, but to mock. To you it’s about finding something that we say and then using it against us and to justify your own principles.

You mock and ridicule what you don’t understand. What is being said does not add up to what you believe about God and therefore you reject it and listen with a half ear. You use half-truths and hearsays and build your own story and then use this story to justify you methods and your hate.

People do not want to hear the gospel of Christ, because to them it will mean that they would have to give up themselves. They would have to give up their principles and their own ideas about God. They would have to humble themselves before God and take on His knowledge and come into His service. Truth cuts. Truth offends. It hurts the pride and therefore people reject it. Christ didn’t come to preach a gospel that fit and pleased man. Christ preached a gospel that stepped on toes and offended. So in order to justify their not submitting to God, people despise government. You can say to that “Well, I have submitted to God and I am serving Him”. My question is: On whose terms?

Through ignorance man interprets scripture on his own, using his reason, his imagination, his aspirations and his principles to build for himself a Christ that will confirm him/herself. When doing this man is dictating to God how it is that he will serve Him. God does not wait at man’s gate for wisdom. There are currently thousands of Christian denominations (Faiths), each practicing their own faith. The results is thousands of different Christs in the world, all created from the same bible. Where is the order in that? Where is the unity? Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism. The churches reek with hypocrisy and everyone is bringing their own bread (doctrine) to the table. They are taking bits and pieces here, rejecting some, accepting others and changing some to fit their own aspirations and truths. For those of the world this is easy to see.

God is a God of order, a God of structure, and He is also a God of KNOWLEDGE. 1Sam 2:3 . In these end times God is restoring His pure and ordered knowledge to the church so that His church might know how to serve Him and once again be spotless. So that through this service they will be able to walk in unity with the Spirit and bear forth the fruit of God’s kingdom, glorifying Him. God has placed a design in His Second Covenant. It is a system through which (with our participation) He will be able to restore the soul so that it will reflect His Glory. So that when He looks at his children He will see His own reflection in the waters of their soul.

Currently you are looking at man. You are looking at those of second 8th week and you are seeing the minority. You are seeing men and woman with frailties. You are not LISTENING to WHAT is being said. You are not hearing the voice of Gods grace, because you are hardening your hearts. Throughout the history of the world it was never about Gods steward (Moses, Elija, etc.) It was about the KNOWLEDGE that God gave through the steward and His Grace (Power) that accompanied that knowledge. It’s not about Apostle Eric and the other Apostles. It’s about Christ. It is about the knowledge that allows us to once again walk in perfect harmony with Christ. It’s about the knowledge that allows us to experience TRUE REGENERATION through our participation with it. The main purpose of serving God is bearing fruit. Fruit is what glorifies God. Fruit is His delight. He desires to propagate His likeness in His children and through them. But man needs knowledge in order to understand how God would go about to heal the soul and what it is that is expected of us in this process.

I remember reading in this discussion something like this: once they have spoken in tongues there is no convincing them that they are wrong. Have you ever stopped to think why it is that you cannot convince them? WHAT it is that is keeping them? What is it that they are experiencing, so that nothing you say can budge them? They are experiencing true deliverance. They are daily walking in the Light and Life of Christ. Terms such as Holiness, Sanctification, Perfect faith, Pleasing God, Regeneration and Renewing of the mind are no longer something they read about and are trying to define on their own, it is something they are EXPERIENCING daily. The scriptures are no longer a mystery, because they have the knowledge that allow them to interpret scripture and see the face of God and not their own. To interpret scripture from Gods perspective and not their reason and imagination.

If you would stop and for one moment lay down your own principles and ideas about God. If you would Pray about this and sincerely ask God to show you whether this is truly His Spirit moving and bringing revival. If you would allow God to discern for you instead of judging according to what you believe is truth, then God will show you that this is truly His Spirit bringing deliverance. I cannot convince you, it is God that must do the work.

Deborah, I don’t know if you will delete my post. I don’t know if you will edit it and leave some things out. All I can do is ask you not to.

Monique

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Deb for your learning experience regarding knowledge and its importance and necessity for faith;

The word “Knowledge” is in the scriptures 172 times, beat out by love=310,faith=247, wisdom=234,and known=222 which is in direct correlation to KNOW-ledge.

We cannot KNOW God apart from the KNOW-ledge of Him which we receive from Gods KNOW-Ledge Stewards called APOSTLES.

Some would say “that’s why we have the scriptures”, and I say the letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life! The life of Christ embodies the KNOWLEDGE of His truth,the (hidden) Mystery of Christ not the dead letter, for Christ is not pen and paper, He IS the LIVING WORD of GOD.

JOHN 5:39 SEARCH the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which TESTIFY of me.

ISAIAH 28

9 Whom shall he teach KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; LINE UPON LINE, LINE UPON LINE; here a little, and there a little:
13 But the word of the LORD was unto THEM precept upon precept, precept upon precept; LINE UPON LINE, LINE UPON LINE; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and FALL backward, and be BROKEN, and SNARED, and TAKEN.

HOSEA 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor KNOWLEDGE of God in the land.

6 My people are destroyed for lack of KNOWLEDGE: because thou hast rejected KNOWLEDGE, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

“The divinity and hidden things of God are beyond finding out through mans logic, reason and intellect, therefore we must seek God to know Him through the spiritual tokens he has authorized and sanctified for our faith.”

IN Christ~Evangelist Melissa

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Dear Bl and Deb,

In response to your inquiry please find below my answer;

1. please state here what Gospel you are sharing?
A. What the apostles taught and preached which is the covenant of Jesus Christ.

2. How are people saved?
A. By responding to the grace of God in truth, and building His House by the Spirit, which are the works of righteousness. As Paul said, If you keep in memory what I preached unto you.”

3. How do you believe people receive eternal life?
A. By faith in Jesus Christ, as John said to love one another, and Paul said abounding in faith and charity in keeping His commandments.

4. what is your gospel message?
A. From God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. The tether of His grace joins us to Him by those things He sanctified for our faith to be made perfect. The kingdom of God is built in the soul by the Spirit.

Can you disprove any of these things? Please give an intelligent answer and not mockery.

Restore in the Spirit of meekness, not reviling or evil speaking. Thanks.

In Christ~Evangelist Melissa

Michael says:

I want to say that I have absolutely no hatred or ill feelings towards Eric or any other for that matter as a person/s on the contrary I am compelled to love him/them as a person/people and be concerned for his/their soul/s. The misunderstanding is that I have an anger against the teaching of false gospels…the reason is that I fell under similar teachings…I fellowshipped (if you can call it that) in charismatic churches for many years and was deluded by the Ray Macauley’s,Benny Hinn’s,Gerry Saville’s and many others. I began to see huge untruths being taught that did not line up to the very clear gospel of true salvation.The most precious gift of all is Christ’s dying on the cross for me and the world..His redemptive work…such a huge wonderful gift that holds me amazed and overwhelmed…nothing else is as great and everything else fades into total insignificance in comparison…anything that distorts and waters down this great act of sacrifice I must reject and despise because it is false and sin. I must hate sin but not the sinners.

Michael says:

Lest I forget THY agony…Lord lead me to Calvary.

Michael says:

Melissa wrote;

2. How are people saved?
A. By responding to the grace of God in truth, and building His House by the Spirit, which are the works of righteousness. As Paul said, If you keep in memory what I preached unto you.”

3. How do you believe people receive eternal life?
A. By faith in Jesus Christ, as John said to love one another, and Paul said abounding in faith and charity in keeping His commandments

Sorry Melissa I do not mean disrespect to you in person but this is nonsense…

The message is clear and simple.We are saved by accepting Christ’s atonement…the personal acceptance of this great act of love and surrender of our lives to Him that He died for my sins and yours and acknowledging this with renouncing the old sinful life which is crucified with Him on the cross and that He gives new life and forgiveness of our sins..because He conquered sin and death and rose again.. We accept all that He did there.This results in a new life and we are born of the Spirit and choose to live for Him and repent of our past sins and choose to obey Him. When this is done in sincere honesty we are changed immediately and our names written in the book of life…which is a booking in heaven where we will enjoy eternity.
You are not saying the same thing and this type of teaching is mixing partial truths with untruths and the powerful message is lost.

Michael says:

This is why there are so many that attend meetings and watch tv programs that are deluded into thinking they are saved but carry on living the way they always have…there is very little (if any) change in their lives.
They claim to have experiences but you are not saved by experiences or happenings…these things are more delusional and appeal to the flesh and entirely subjective.

Michael says:

At the cross He experienced this;

“I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting” (Isaiah 50:6).

Nothing could be clearer than this:

“He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:5-6).

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Burning Lamp wrote:

You are preaching a Gospel of grace but you mix it with works. I absolutely agree with Michael – this is what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that salvation is a gift that we cannot earn. It is received through faith and repentance. We accept the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for our sins, past, present and future. We surrender our lives to Him.
Then we grow as Christians by studying the Word and allowing God to guide us into how to be obedient to Him. The Bible is our standard and our only standard. When we are saved we are given the Holy Spirit Who is our Teacher.
That is the Gospel. Anything added to that is false.

The bible speaks of 3 kinds of works, the works of the flesh, the works of the law and the works of faith. Faith without works is dead.

We can not work our way to heaven through the works of the flesh, and yes our salvation is a free gift, but it is not free of responsibility. We are born kings and called “priest” without a priesthood according to covenant there is no salvation.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Michael wrote:

You can only be saved by accepting and acting out of the true gospel and the real Jesus…nothing else will do…false,distorted and watered down gospels (teachings) result in worshipping a false “Jesus” in fact not Jesus at all but demonic spirits.

1. So Paul, Moses, and the prophets were ‘delusional’ by your gospel?

2.The modern church is without the Godhead being absent of stewardship, so they seek confirmations of outside of Him which the Laughter Movement sprung up from within that system. Other Churches seek to fill the spiritual void by emphases on worldly… issues, apocalyptic themes, wealth, investments, Denominational evangelism, and moral struggles.

3. Eph.1: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Melissa
Can you explain to me in pretty good detail what are physical contact points and spiritual contact points.?

I discern that your desire is not to know what they are regarding the benefit of gaining Christ and the knowledge of them for the new covenant priesthood, but to debate and ridicule.

If at some point you would like to understand the “knowledge” of the covenant and learn how to serve God in spirit and in truth I will with all sincerity assist you through the knowledge of the covenant and of the spiritual tools of the faith and those that are carnal which the church has yoked herself to.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Burning Lamp wrote:

Then we grow as Christians by studying the Word and allowing God to guide us into how to be obedient to Him. The Bible is our standard and our only standard. When we are saved we are given the Holy Spirit Who is our Teacher.
That is the Gospel. Anything added to that is false.

Then you admit the fact that ‘works’ are a necessary component to your faith. First you mockingly denied any activity was necessary, but then admitted it was by saying ‘by studying the Word’. So truth is necessary and then apostles also. For who can validate that which people claim as the leading of the Holy Ghost?

Michael says:

Melissa wrore;

1. So Paul, Moses, and the prophets were ‘delusional’ by your gospel?

2.The modern church is without the Godhead being absent of stewardship, so they seek confirmations of outside of Him which the Laughter Movement sprung up from within that system. Other Churches seek to fill the spiritual void by emphases on worldly… issues, apocalyptic themes, wealth, investments, Denominational evangelism, and moral struggles.

3. Eph.1: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Michael replied;

I. I never said anything about “my gospel”…I was talking about the true simple gospel recorded in the scriptures.
What has this to do with Paul and Moses?
2.Where do you read this in the scriptures that the Godhead (Father,Son and Holy Spirit)has deserted the church and define what represents the “modern” church.
3.What has Eph 1:22 got to do with the above.

You are not making any sense at all and misrepresent not only the truth as is written in the Word of God but misrepresent what I wrote.

I suggest you try communicating the truth and have at least some integrity to not to twist,distort and confuse.

I am sorry I am angry because you simply do NOT tell the truth…if it simply was misunderstanding then that’s fine but there was no reference to “my gospel”

Burning Lamp says:

Melissa said:

Then you admit the fact that ‘works’ are a necessary component to your faith. First you mockingly denied any activity was necessary, but then admitted it was by saying ‘by studying the Word’. So truth is necessary and then apostles also. For who can validate that which people claim as the leading of the Holy Ghost?

You seem to think I am mocking you – please understand that I am not. I am pleading with you to face the facts and the truth of the Word of God because I care about anyone who is being deluded. That is why Deborah has this website – she cares. I want to THANK you for coming here to dialog. I pray the Lord can use us to be of help to you. Please understand, we don’t consider ourselves anything other than humble servants of our Lord Who gave everything for us. Please seriously consider what is being presented here.

My statements were not conflicting at all. You apparently don’t understand justification – we are justified (saved) by faith – as the Bible says not of ourselves (anything we can do for ourselves)and faith ALONE. Faith is not a work.

But after we are saved, the Bible says we are saved to do good works. That part is sanctification. They are two separate processes.
The works come AFTER one has salvation. Any works done before salvation are as filthy rags before the Lord. There is NOTHING we can do to earn our salvation except to acknowledge Him and our need for a Savior and surrender our lives to Him. That means repentance, not only sorow for our sins, but the desire to turn from them. We do this because we have a new Spirit, we are reborn spiritually and our desires change. But we have to grow and that comes through study of the Word.

And BOTH of them are accomplished through the Holy Spirit to each person individually. Yes, there are pastors, but there is a big difference between a pastor and an apostle. No person living today can meet the qualifications given in Scripture for being an apostle. Consider this verse in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Further warning was issued to the Galatian churches: “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). Anyone claiming to be an apostle today who teaches anything in addition to the New Testament is clearly not an apostle of Christ!

If you look at any of the self-proclaimed “apostles” today you will see without fail that they are adding to the Bible.
And the Bible says, not me, that such are “accursed”. Those are sobering words.

In Matthew 19:28 Jesus informed Peter and the other apostles: “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” NKJV

Melissa, there are only 12 thrones, no room for the false self-proclaimed modern-day “apostles”.

Burning Lamp says:

Monique, thank you for coming to dialog and thank you for quoting verses. I appreciate that you use the Word of God.

We agree that salvation is a gift and there is no way we can earn it. This is a rebirth, when we become alive in Christ and receive the Holy Spirit. That is justification. God has adopted us and made us His child.

Now, you are right, as James says there is a responsiblity. HOWEVER, God wants us to serve out of a heart of LOVE and gratitude for what He has done for us rather than a sense of duty. There is a BIG difference!

Also, some people take the verses about working out our salvation and run with it and say we can lose our salvation. The salvation issue is settled. With our new heart and attitude we have different desires and we want to live for Christ. But we have to study the Word and pray and seek God’s will for our lives. If we fail to do that as believers we will be chastened by our Heavenly Father as any good parent will do. There are consequences to disobedience, but losing one’s salvation is not one of them.

Then there is the issue of rewards – obedience will result in rewards at the Bema seat – disobedience will result in loss of rewards.

So bottom line there are two issues involved. One is the first step to become a true born-again believer. The first step is the same for everyone. The second will vary with each individual as they grow in faith.

Satan works to confuse the simple truths. There are no conflicts in the Bible as some like to use James as a club to beat believers into submission. James simply is exhorting us to good works – but we must remember that good works to bear good fruit must be done with the right heart attitude. People can do good works to glorify themselves and not God. Those are what the Bible calls “hay and stubble” and will b burned up and count for nothing.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Melissa

That is just classic, how did I know you were going to say something like that. You know secrecy is of the devil. Now nowhere in the bible do I find anything do to with these CONTACT POINTS. Please provide scripture for these. And when I ask a question its because I actually want an answer. I will not be joining your cult to find out the answer to this question Melissa.

Deb,

To your false accusation of “secrecy” again you walk in error for here for all the world to see is a free PDF called the Tools of the Covenant. You do not have to “join” anything, just down load and read.

Covered in “Covenant Tools”

• What are tools?
• How God establishes a tie between Himself and us concerning His promise.
• How God represents Himself in covenant by a token.
• What God provided to establish relationship with man and give structure and
function to faith.
• Overview of the 9 tools of the Second Covenant.

In Christ~Evangelist Melissa

[EDITED by DTW: My original question was this:

And I ask again, “Can you explain to me in pretty good detail what are physical contact points and spiritual contact points.?” If there is info on your site, go and copy and paste it here, I am not going to go look for it.]

Beaudene Schmidt says:

Amen Evangelist Melissa and Monique.

I agree with you totally. People always judge and ridicule what they do not understand. Just like the Pharisees and Sudicees came against Jesus, for they did not understand His ministry.

Jesus rebuked those who came against Him and His new law of grace and truth, and I promise you God is not pleased with those who come against HIS APPOINTED STEWARD.

When you truly seek God you will recognize truth by the grace of God, but when you only seek to be victorious in Christian debate, then it does not mean you are truly seeking God.

In time all will see the plan of God through the Second 8th week. God have mercy on the souls who mock and scorn the chosen steward.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Melissa

This ‘covenant faith’ you keep speaking about is Second8thweek nonsense.

Deb,

Perhaps this will help refresh your memory of the “covenant faith” which you call “nonsense” it is in fact real and only those IN covenant can possess the understanding of it and know Christ in His fulness. Apart from covenant God is not anyone’s Father to the contrary His wrath awaits them, no promise of the covenant will ever be realized apart from it.

This includes and is not limited to the salvation of your soul, Christ as your propitiation and mediator, regeneration of your soul,nor a renewed mind in Christ.

Again I extend to you an invitation to come into covenant under true apostolic governance for the salvation of your soul.

I believe these scriptures will help you see the reality of and necessity of “covenant faith”.

LUKE 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy COVENANT;

ACTS 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the COVENANT which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
ACTS 7:8 And he gave him the COVENANT of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

ROMANS 11:27 For this is my COVENANT unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

GALATIANS 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s COVENANT, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
17 And this I say, that the COVENANT, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

HEBREWS 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better COVENANT, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first COVENANT had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the COVENANT that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my COVENANT, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
13 In that he saith, A new COVENANT, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

HEBREWS 9:1 Then verily the first COVENANT had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the COVENANT overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the COVENANT;

HEBREWS 10:16 This is the COVENANT that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

HEBREWS 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new COVENANT, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel.

HEBREWS 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting COVENANT.

In Christ~Evangelist Melissa

[EDITED BY DTW: NOW listen up Melissa. Thanks for all the great scriptures on the 2nd covenant thought Jesus Christ which I am UNDER. Now this is where it get tricky for you, so pay attention: I AM NOT under your church’s FALSE satanic covenant. I am BORN AGAIN, SAVED through, Jesus Christ, under the NEW COVENANT :). Mkay? We got that? Great stuff! ]

Beaudene says:

“John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.”

We do not do God service by killing our brother with mockery and hatred, we do God service by walking in covenant with Him.

“John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me they will persecute you also; if they have kept my saying they will keep yours also.”

Beaudene says:

You know what at the end of the day, one cannot convince the carnal minded.

Pretty soon all will come to know the truth of Christ. Wheteher you believe it’s within His covenant or not. God will speak for Himself and as the bible says every knee shall bow before Him.

This is the wonderfull thing. We don’t have to convince people or get stuck in rediculous debate. We share the truth of Christ and those who wil not hear can not say they did not know.

Have a wonderfull day Deborah.

I will keep you in prayer.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Burning Lamp wrote:

Faith is not a work.

BL

I understand your perspective of faith which is “to believe”, this is mine as well. The difference in our perspectives lies in what the word “believe” means. I will begin by telling you that to believe is not just acknowledging, when one just acknowledges the history and fundamentals of Christ and then chalk it all up to we are saved by grace as defined by the world as Gods “unmerited favor” then they believe in error and possess not the works of faith to save their soul.

When one understands what believe is by covenant faith then they possess the works of faith. Abraham as an example is not called the Father of faith because he just heard and acknowledged what God said, but because he acted upon it, thus faith by works.

I can make this very simple by an analogy;

The church at large is like a guy sitting in a burning house. The fireman says “your house is on fire “, the guy says “yes I believe it is on fire” and then sits there. This is acknowledging only, this is not believing. On the other hand the guy who gets out of the chair and house and grabs a bucket of water is showing his faith by works, this is belief in action according to the facts involved.

Now we have another other scenario for you to ponder.

Same guy, same house, same fireman, same fire only this time the guy gets out of his chair and because he is ignorant, having no knowledge to the correct things needed to put the fire out he grabs a blanket or lighter fluid or a hammer and attempts to put the fire out. This guy is on the correct path as far as knowing he must DO SOMETHING, but poor guy he just doesn’t possess the knowledge to grab the right tools DESIGNED for the job, for the saving of his soul.

We have 30,000 different religions in the world who all claim to “believe” in Christ when the reality of the problem is they don’t believe at all, they acknowledge only and follow their own aspiration and principles, logic and reason or the line and precept of scripture regarding truth and end up with dead faith because of dead works.

I wonder if you think it kind of strange or contrary that the scriptures speak of one truth, one faith, one Spirit, one baptism, one body and in all in the unity of the faith and just wondering how do you make sense of this, the fact that there are over 30,000 plus “christian faiths”? Do you see a problem? Do you “believe” that God has no remedy for this? Do you believe that in all of these 30,000 faiths that there are not some who really desire the ONE truth because they can SEE that this is chaos and confusion and therefore not the design of God? Do you believe that God would call them out from among them, to receive the truth?

This is reality whether those in this forum believe it or not. We are now in the “Hour of temptation” which has come upon the whole world. Man has 2 choices he can walk by faith as Abraham did, who knew not where he was going or they will lean to their own logic and reason, and the written word (dead letter)as the pharisees did and by doing so condemn the just and deny the gift of Christ for their salvation.

God has given man a sovereign will to make choices by, but the man who chooses by his own reason and intellect does not choose faith, but denies God the pleasure of nurturing him/her as a child of his own to further His kingdom and the reward of our eternal inheritance in His bosom.

Blessed is the man who walks by faith and not by sight.

IN Christ~Evangelist Melissa

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

Deborah (Discerning the World)
[EDITED BY DTW: NOW listen up Melissa. Thanks for all the great scriptures on the 2nd covenant thought Jesus Christ which I am UNDER. Now this is where it get tricky for you, so pay attention: I AM NOT under your church’s FALSE satanic covenant. I am BORN AGAIN, SAVED through, Jesus Christ, under the NEW COVENANT :). Mkay? We got that? Great stuff! ]

My Deb be careful there your God code is in an uproar and your “fruit” is starting to ripen. Its not the fruit of Christ I know which is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, temperance and faith.

[EDITED BY DTW: God Code? LOL. Say no more. You can add to your long list of the fruit of your Cosmic Christ being secrecy, lies, ego, megalomaniac, pride, etc ]

Thank you though :-)E. Melissa

Burning Lamp says:

I agree with Michael. This dialog is a perfect example of the destructiveness of delusion. These folks are so far down that road that it is further conversation with them is futile. They are firmly in the camp of Satan and his ability to twist scripture like a pretzel. They are sincere – but they have been deceived into being believing a lie and they have tuned out everything else. I have one more question for these folks that I will post separately, then I’m done.

Burning Lamp says:

Melissa and all the other followers of “Apostle” Eric:

In Matthew 19:28 Jesus informed Peter and the other apostles: “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” NKJV

Since the Bible clearly describes the scene in heaven and there are only 12 thrones for the 12 apostles, where do you think “Apostle” Eric will sit and do you believe he will be God’s judge along with the 12 on the thrones?

I would really appreciate an answer to this.

Beauty says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

In Matthew 19:28 Jesus informed Peter and the other apostles: “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” NKJV

Melissa, there are only 12 thrones, no room for the false self-proclaimed modern-day “apostles”.

That is BRILLIANT!!!

NOT!!!

So Debs are you saying that you will not receive the over comer’s reward, promised to those who overcome through faith? Rev 3:2 ‘to him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I overcame and I am set down with my Father in His throne.’

[Edited by DTW: Beauty, this has got nothing to do with the 12 thrones for Apostles. The topic is about ERIC BEING AN APOSTLE (all be it a false one). So I was just wondering where he plans to sit, on the floor. No wait, worse…. Eric might have his own throne room in hell.]

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Daniel
>> I would rather follow Apostle Eric von Anderseck who has delivered on more promises than follow my current President.
WOW, so you follow Eric and not Jesus Christ. You see Daniel, I FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST and no man on earth. The Bible is my number 1 stop. Your number 1 stop is Erics courses.

Amen Brother Daniel!

This is so common we hear it all of the time “I don’t follow a man”. Yet these very persons run to the book store to buy the first health, wealth and prosperity book on the shelf<<That's following a man! —- DTW says: I ONLY READ MY BIBLE, Don’t read books written by men. Unlike yourself Melissa, who reads books written by Eric.

The MAN in the pulpit, on the radio, the t.v. etc.<<<That's following a man! — DTW says: I listen to the pastor preach and then I LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT – If the Holy Spirit tell me the pastor is speaking nonsense, then I LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Even when they claim they follow no man, they do as they follow their own logic and reason, they are themselves the MAN they follow and not Christ. [DTW says: ROTFL] I refer to the following scriptures to show that its ok to follow those who follow Christ which of course are those called and chosen of God to lead His flock.This speaks not of the self appointed person who lays hold of a scripture, misinterprets it and sets themselves up as the spokesperson for Gods kingdom

2 THESSALONIANS 3
7 For yourselves know how ye ought to FOLLOW us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to FOLLOW us.

sylesa says:

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/10/13/unconditional-election-and-total-depravity-are-gnostic-teachings/#comment-114027

sylesa says:

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/10/13/unconditional-election-and-total-depravity-are-gnostic-teachings/#comment-114027

sylesa says:

comment moved to http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/10/13/unconditional-election-and-total-depravity-are-gnostic-teachings/#comment-114027

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Greg wrote:
Dear Melissa, Some questions and observations for you.
You said :Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

We have 30,000 different religions in the world who all claim to “believe” in Christ when the reality of the problem is they don’t believe at all
This is a quote I have seen from different correspondents from S8W, thousands of different denominations that believe in Christ with “THOUSANDS” of different doctrines.

>>>this was something I could see before I entered covenant and became converted. before I came to S8W

Can you name twenty of these different denominations and describe their differing gospels?

>>>Greg, You missed the point of my comment totally. This is “straining at a gnat to swallow a camel”.The fact that there are 30,000 religions/denominations which profess Christ is evidence enough of the multitudes of various doctrines/gospels. Is Christ divided? Can a body be complete and function properly if there is no unity in the faith?

You can easily do your own research by googling it.

>>>I ask you Greg what is unity in the faith, agreeing to disagree as long as you “claim” Christ as your saviour? No unity in the faith is the body of Christ under one banner-TRUTH, One government, one Baptism, and one Spirit.The devils believe Christ exist, but they don’t conform to truth. God is the God of His covenant, not the denominations and religions of the world.
You wrote; to Deborah I believe: Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:
Deb,
To your false accusation of “secrecy” again you walk in error for here for all the world to see is a free PDF called the Tools of the Covenant. You do not have to “join” anything, just down load and read.

>>>The above is 100% correct go look and you will see.

May I ask since when because I know there is a fee for doing Eric’s courses and also your answers have to be corrected by somebody in second8thweek. Isn’t that how your faith is confirmed as genuine. Here is a snippet from Eric’s article ” Can Your Faith Be Perfect” which was given to me by a member of second8thweek.

>>>Greg again without all the FACTS, based on your imagination and assumptions you are incorrect. The fee is a charge made mandatory by the state of Michigan if the person wants a degree, such as is done in most Theological Universities and Institutes.

>>>Soon there will be yet another site of ours which will have all the lessons with multiple choice answers. We have many sites for spreading the gospel, some want a degree, some don’t, some want instructor/counselors some don’t. We are very, very busy with existing students from around the world and more coming in steadily and it has been these things that has challenged and helped us see and make adjustments as needed.

>>>No one has ever been refused the courses for lack of funds, mine were 100% free and worth more than all the riches of this world. “Freely we have received, freely we give.”

>>>As to your comment “Your answers have to be corrected” this is taken out of context. eg If the 9 virtues of Christ are listed and the student is asked what they are and they can only name 7 we assist their faith by giving them the other 2.The quizzes are open lesson quizzes meaning one can copy and paste the correct answer. The personal instructor counselor is there to assist the faith of the believer, not to correct and grade as the world system works.
Excerpt: “As you go through the studies with the apostle Eric your faith will be returned to the true commandments of Jesus Christ which will bring healing and freedom to your soul. You need to be mentored in how to use the tools of the Christ properly, therefore the lessons which return your faith to victory will not be posted on this site, but made available to those who wish to register.”
Melissa can you tell me where to access the teaching online “Can Your Faith Be Perfect”?

The correct name of that supplement is “Can Faith Be Perfect If Truth Is In Part? by the way that’s a no brainer question, the answer is NO. I believe you can find that on the .org site.

>>>On the topic of works I knew that Eric’s interpretation of works was completely incorrect when I read this teaching outlined above.

>>>Hmmm I see 🙂

He uses James quote about faith without works being dead and goes on to teach that the works James talks about are Spirit (speaking in tongues),Government (believing in living apostles, which means in particular Eric) Truth, (which means teachings given by Eric) callings (which means being ordained one of the five fold ministry) Grace (which means the calling of God to a persons heart and them responding)

>>>Yup I agree 100%
Actually the works James was talking about were acts of human love:
James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

>>>Well again you are missing the mark Greg and that bible version isn’t helping you either. James is talking about faith a non physical thing and yet you from a carnal perspective have judged that he is talking about “carnal works” or “random acts” of kindness. Yes we can do this of course as God guides us, but these will not make ones faith living, only the works of faith through the spiritual priesthood will.

In fact the a large part of the book of James is about how we should conduct ourselves in loving practical ways if we claim to have faith. it is not about speaking in tongues or following an apostle as part of being in covenant with God.

>>>Thank you for the commentary Greg, but I have already received the foundation of Christ laid in my heart by a living apostle and need not to lay another one.
Greg

“The promise of sonship and everlasting life cannot be realized apart from the covenant God established and sanctified with the blood of Christ”

In Christ~Evangelist Melissa

Burning Lamp says:

Melissa, regarding the thrones, let’s look at the text again:

In Matthew 19:28 Jesus informed Peter and the other apostles: “Assuredly I say to you, that IN THE REGENERATION, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” NKJV
It says “in the regeneration” – that would mean something new and different, yet to come.
and Matthew 25:31 NKJV

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[a] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
and Luke 22:30 NKJV

“that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

Would you agree that the 12 thrones have ALREADY been filled?
As for the word “throne” – when Christ returns and sets up His kingdom, the 12 will judge the nations of Israel it would indicate at that time they would sit in some sort of seat of authority.
Whether it is behind a judge’s bench as we know it or from the throne
as of a monarch, it really doesn’t matter. It is the POSITION of authority that is RESERVED for the 12 who Christ ordained to that position and that position is CLOSED. There will be no more inductees!!

Sorry, but “Apostle” Eric does not fit into that scenario.

I ask you Melissa, what is your view on the position your perceived Apostle in light of the above verses?
There is no seat of authority reserved for him or anyone else no matter what they call themselves.

I pray the scales will fall from your eyes and you will see the truth. None of this is said with a critical spirit, but out of a sincere concern.

Greg says:

Melissa,

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

>>>Greg, You missed the point of my comment totally. This is “straining at a gnat to swallow a camel”.The fact that there are 30,000 religions/denominations which profess Christ is evidence enough of the multitudes of various doctrines/gospels. Is Christ divided? Can a body be complete and function properly if there is no unity in the faith?

No I am not straining at a gnat. My point is that your organisation thrives on exaggeration and hyperbole. The fact is there is not thousands of different Christian denominations with thousands of different gospels. There is only one church with one gospel and there are doctrines that people differ on. But as Paul said in Philipians 3: “15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.”

But your position Melissa is that only an apostle can make it clear to you whereas Paul said GOD will make it clear to you. Cant you see that?? If Paul could make things clear then why would he need to say God would?? Because only the Holy Spirit confirms truth personally to each believer. I also asked you to about the different denominations because I know that yourself and your husband visited many kinds of religious organisations looking for truth but you eventually believe you found it in second8thweek.

Can you tell me Melissa: When and how were you born again??

Also to address your other points:

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

>>>As to your comment “Your answers have to be corrected” this is taken out of context. eg If the 9 virtues of Christ are listed and the student is asked what they are and they can only name 7 we assist their faith by giving them the other 2.The quizzes are open lesson quizzes meaning one can copy and paste the correct answer. The personal instructor counselor is there to assist the faith of the believer, not to correct and grade as the world system works.
Excerpt:

The world does not correct and grade Christians because they do not submit their faith for scrutiny to see if they are in Christ to the world. But it seems your organisation does exactly that. Tell me Melissa Can you show me ANYWHERE in the bible where apostles corrected peoples faith through courses.

Here’s the thing Melissa..You say that peoples faith is only accepted by God if they learn from living apostles and speak in tongues. What differentiates your organisation from lets say the United Pentecostal Church which believes you have to speak in tongues to be saved. Or any pentecostal church where they speak in tongues? And see healings and have prophetic gifts? Is it because they dont accept books that you say are scripture when they clearly are not?

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

The correct name of that supplement is “Can Faith Be Perfect If Truth Is In Part? by the way that’s a no brainer question, the answer is NO. I believe you can find that on the .org site.

Searched for it and can’t find it. Can you please tell me where I can find the following teachings:

1″Other Writings”
2.”The Headship of Christ”
3.”Apostles teach”
4.”I need no Man to Teach me”
5.”The Baptism of the Holy Spirit”
6. “Root causes of a faith in Crisis”
7.” The Baptism we need for salvation”
8.”Walking in covenant with God!”
9.”Why can’t I believe in God my own way”
10.”Are you in the perfect will of God”
11.2Are you ready to come to terms”

Lets look again at your method of correction in what you call “Quizzes” from you comment above. You said I took the quoted out of context that you had to do lessons which had to be corrected. Did I take it out of context??? in what way?? I believe I did not Melissa. I am saying that your correction methods whether they be by quiz multiple choice questions or whatever? Are simply that! CORRECTION!! Correction of the persons faith according to Eric VonAnderseck. For you to try and pretend otherwise is false and misleading. You even use the word “Correct” yourself! You even contradict your own self with your statements about the quizzes and my statement. Shall we look at it??

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

>>>As to your comment “Your answers have to be corrected” this is taken out of context.

How so? are you correcting their faith or not?

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

eg If the 9 virtues of Christ are listed and the student is asked what they are and they can only name 7 we assist their faith by giving them the other 2.The quizzes are open lesson quizzes meaning one can copy and paste the correct answer.

The correct answer..seems like you are correcting them. But correct answer according to whom? The answers are already predetermined by Eric VonAnderseck. There is no room for discussion in your quizzes. I know I’ve seen one, in the “Other Writings” teaching. Maybe I will feature it here to show people how there is no room for discussion on the teaching.

Melissa, I could write a hundred pages pointing out the contradictions that are made from second8thweek from 1.the statements of it’s disciples 2. your lessons 3.your preaching methods 4. you beliefs about who is saved and who isn’t.

Tell me Melissa? what do you think about Rinna Bekker losing her salvation now that her faith is reprobate because she no longer follows Eric. But yet Eric says that the saints in Mossel Bay under her are growing..How come??

If she is no longer part of the very gospel you preach as she is now out of one of the components (government) how can she preach the gospel? Can she get her salvation back? or is it once a TARE always a TARE?

On the book of James you are ABSOLUTELY wrong. Show me where James is speaking about tongues or following an apostle as part of salvation? You can’t..thats why when I highlighted what the book was about and said it was not about tongues or following apostles you ended your letter like this:

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

>>>Thank you for the commentary Greg, but I have already received the foundation of Christ laid in my heart by a living apostle and need not to lay another one.
Greg

Your foundation is false Melissa. You have believed a false gospel from a false apostle. I pray Father in heaven that you will show Melissa the errors and false teachings that have been sown in her soul. I pray Heavenly Father that you will lead her to the truth of your Salvation and bring her to the knowledge of your son Jesus Christ. Amen.

Yours Humbly Melissa, Greg.

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

[DELETED by DTW: Melissa if you can’t speak to me nicely, then expect me to delete your comments.]

Burning Lamp wrote:

Melissa – I said I was done, but you specifically asked for a response. This forum is
not sufficient for what you need which is an intervention. But I will answer these last
questions as briefly as possible.
You asked: “How can this not be an ongoing process? Do you mean to tell me that our souls are healed in an instant? “
Healed? This is evidence of your confusion about the gift of salvation. When one makes a conscious decision to acknowledge themselves as sinners and accept the sacrifice of Christ for one’s sins, and it is genuine, the person comes alive spiritually, yes instanteously and the Holy Spirit comes to reside in the person’s being. Before they were spiritually dead and the new birth makes them spiritually alive. Yes, this determines the eternal destiny of the person – rejection of Christ results in eternal damnation in hell. Becoming a new creation in Christ means spending eternity with Him. The person is adopted into God’s family. He becomes “joint heirs with Christ”. The transaction is permanent and biding.
You said: “And are you saying that once you acknowledge Christ as the Son of God, and “invite him into your heart” (nowhere does the apostle use this term in their epistles by the way) that you can now do what you want and you will go to heaven? That you will never lose you salvation it doesn’t matter what you do? If this is what you are saying please tell me why someone would then be obedient to God? This is a very popular doctrine that has appeal because it excuses man of responsibility of faith. Man can do whatever he wants as long as he acknowledges Christ. This is what man wants to hear, therefor they endorse this false doctrine. When you read the old testament where do you see this pattern? “
Melissa, the Bible may not use the exact words “invite Christ into your heart” but that is exactly what it means – as I have stated previously. Let’s not mince over terminology.
Of course it doesn’t mean that a Christian can do as they please. We should obey God out of gratitude for what He has done, but let’s face it, we still have the flesh and Satan who tempts us. God is the Christian’s Father – He loves His children and will discipline them if they disobey just as any good earthly parent will do. The Bible calls it “chastening”. There ARE are consequences to disobedience, but losing one’s salvation is not one of them. As for the Old Testament, that as under the Old Covenant. God often made crispy critters out of those who disobeyed. Since Christ came we don’t see that happening, do we?
You said: “We love God with an equal measure by giving back to Him his Son. We do this by abiding in the terms of the second covenant and touching the tools of the Spirit. (contact points).“
Excuse me, tools of the Spirit – where is THAT in the Bible?
You said: “Nowhere in the bible did Jesus say that He is the scriptures and nowhere did He say. “the scriptures are the word of God”.”
He was always pointing to Himself as the Word. He is the pattern for our faith/ record for our faith. He is sufficient for faith. Christ is all we need.
Boy are you ever confused! Do you mean to say that the Bible is not the Word of God? Do you believe in the Trinity? Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One. The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Christ is the Word made flesh. It is pretty simply math – One + One + One = Triune God All in One-One in all.
You are once again comparing apples to oranges. This is where Pentecostal belief falls off the truck.
Deborah has given a great exposition on this elsewhere on this site. I don’t feel the need to rehash that. Since your beliefs are so riddled with error and false teaching it is a very real possibility that the “tongues” you are receiving could be a counterfeit from Satan. That is a scary thought.
You said: “Tongues is the evidence of your baptism. It is an outward sign that gives witness to what is within.”
You are once again comparing apples to oranges. This is where Pentecostal belief falls off the truck.
Deborah has given a great exposition on this elsewhere on this site. I don’t feel the need to rehash that. Since your beliefs are so riddled with error and false teaching it is a very real possibility that the “tongues” you are receiving could be a counterfeit from Satan. That is a scary thought.

This is the one I meant to reference regarding the removing of the scales from your eyes. I did not write this:-) Although I agree with what was written by her 😉

Beaudene says:

amen amen amen evangelist melissa.

One can clearly see the difference between a covenant believer (those who have the temperament of the Spirit) and those who seek to jusitify their own indifference (their behaviour and evil[which means faithless] responses are a sign against them).

Once people feel threatened or insecure about their own faith, they ask others to quote exactly from the bible.

The mystery of CHrist is not revealed through scripture, but by grace and the revelation that God gives.

Burning Lamp says:

Beaudene said:

The mystery of CHrist is not revealed through scripture, but by grace and the revelation that God gives.

This shows exactly the mentality we are dealing with here – the absolute delusion.
Beaudene has declared that her group doesn’t regard God’s Word as the Authority, but rather EXTRA-BILICAL revelation. That is the mark of a CULT. End of story. I’m done. May God have mercy upon all these people and deliver them from this darkness. How tragic.

sylesa says:

Hello all. Nobody posting comments today? I tried to post one this morning and i think that i hit the button twice and it said “duplicate message” but neither message showed on the board as awaiting moderation. Are you off today Deborah? I am going to read thru some of the blogs, Apostle Eric is particularly facinating as a case study of the pathology of a false teacher so i guess i will take the time to read since there are no new posts.

Beaudene says:

To burning lamp.

You know that it says in the bible that Jesus revealed the mystery of the gospel to the Apostle Paul right???

So How did Jesus reveal this unto Him, through scripture or the revelation of His grace?????

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY, which was kept secret since the world began.

Epesians 3:3 How that by REVELATION he made known unto me the MYSTERY!!!

The bible is not the word of God, Jesus Christ is the word of God. The bible is a written record of Jesus Christ in His reality and the types and shadows, new testament and old.

Michael says:

>>The bible is not the word of God, Jesus Christ is the word of God. The bible is a written record of Jesus Christ in His reality and the types and shadows, new testament and old.

What next…where and how these people derive the message of salvation…false and twisted doctrine…doctrines of devils…no standards or integrity ,no wonder there is such confusion…they rely on visions and emotions and men and women who appoint themselves as the relevation of a new gospel and additional extensions of God’s. They contaminate and pollute the tried and trusted scriptures according to their evil desires and wims…no wonder the church is in a mess and souls are being send on their way to hell in their myriads.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Tim:3:16
and
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book…Rev 22:19

and
Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.Proverbs 30:6

Michael says:

Yes…The Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us…full of grace and truth and yes this the Lord Jesus Christ but that does not eliminate or substitute it or make it null and void…you cannot separate Christ from God’s Word as they are one. Can you now see how the devil works with word play and manipulation…he (Satan and his demons) is always quoting scripture out of context…he even had the audacity and cheek to quote it to Jesus after He was in the desert after 40 days/nights.
If he thought he had a chance there against the Son of Man…doing it to ignorant and unredeemed man (and sometimes the elect)…is a piece of cake. With mankind he will persist and persist to lead them away from the truth.

Burning Lamp says:

Correction – He promised to send the Holy Spirit but He came later – anyone who knows the Bible knows that, but didn’t want to leave that open.

Barland Johnson says:

Deborah, Burning Lamp, Greg and our brothers and sisters who are earnestly contending for the faith.
Firstly – wow, this has really opened up much debate and much discussion.
Secondly – Thank you very much Deborah for your effort and all others who work very hard at exposing the evil so prevalent in our “christian” society.
I was really amused at an incoherent and contradictory presentation by those who are false in every way. I have seen an undertone of heavy shepherding by the so called elite of Christendom threatening expulsion or excommunication of the ‘disobedient” of their flock.
This really presents a dilema to all who visit the organisation whether by electronic means or a physical visit. I therefore would encourage Greg to continue to expose the evil and warn many about the danger that these evil workers present.

Paul warns that the Holy Spirit expressly says that in the last days many will fal away from the faith giving heed to the doctrine of demons. 1 Timothy 4 verse 1

In contrast to the original apostles and evangelist and christian workers there can be no comparison between the works of the apostles in the book of Acts – they always proclaimed Christ and no-one else. they were humble and never spoke of themselves in the 3rd person – and Eric and his followers.

To Eric and his crew our faith (believers in CHRIST) is about GOD and not the apostles. It is about the SON OF GOD and HIS saving work and not about any man’s knowledge. It is about THE HOLY SPIRIT who indwells everyone who has repented, believed and has been BAPTISED and then receives the GIFT of the HOLY Spirit.
To Eric and his followers the WORDS of CHRIST according to John 6:63 is SPIRIT and they GIVE life – not the apostles. The apostles were given a job to preach the truth and not magnify themselves. Everyone who believes is a new person, having been born again of SPIRIT AND WATER.
Are you and any of your followers born again? Do you display the fruit of repentance?
Are you a new person – as 1 Samuel 6 verse 10 states, —“The Holy Spirit will come upon you mightily ….. and you will be changed into another person.
I dare venture that you are not. I dare say that you are dead and not alive. I dare say that you and followers have never been cut to the heart and repented of your sin. Because you are dead and not alive you cannot preach the WORD of GOD, which is and Who is Christ Jesus, and the bible is the WORD of GOD according 2 Timothy 3 verse 16.”For All Scripture is inspired of GOD…”
JESUS when being tempted by the devil in wilderness confirmed that scriptures are the WORD of GOD when he quoted verbatim the LIVING WORD of GOD when he quote from Deuteronomy chapters 6 and 8.
1. “Man shall not live by bread….” Deut 8 verse 3
2. “…..and you shall worship Him…” Deut 6:13
3. “You shal not put the Lord your God to the test….” Deut 6:16
The devil also quoted the PSALMS in Matthew Chapter 4 when he tempted the LORD.
Also Hebrew 4 verse 12 states “that the WORD of GOD is living and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword….”
Furthermore Eric, it is a testimony against you and your followers of your wickedness in denying the WORD of GOD, which is the SWORD of the SPIRIT in Ephesians 6 verse 17. Therefore you must tread very carefully in DENYING THE GODHEAD AND WHAT THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED. I would dare say to you that you are committing blasphemy against THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.
I then caution you to be very careful about blaspheming GOD and twisting the scriptures as the devil did and ernestly implore you repent and seek GOD’s forgiveness and maybe he will forgive you, your sins.
To add in closing, a wicked and perverse generation seeks after a sign but none shall be given except the sign of Johah. It meens this – THERE ARE NO MORE SIGNS IN HEAVEN AND EARTH TO REVEAL GOD’S GLORY ACCEPT THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST. NO MORE TRUMPETS AND IN THE CASE OF ANGUS BUCHAN AND ALL THE OTHERS NO MORE CLOUDS, NO MORE FIRE ONLY THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST JESUS.

Well done Deborah, BL and Greg and all the others. To Deborah, thank you for the late nites, we really appreciate it.
With kind regards to you
Barland

Barland Johnson says:

ALL THE BLESSINGS OF GOD

All the blessings God has bestowed upon man and women are of his grace, his free, undeserved favor. We have no claim to the least of His mercies.

It was free grace that “formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into him a living soul,” and then stamped on that soul the image of God. The same free grace continues to us at this day — life, and breath, and all things. And whatever righteousness may be found in us, this is also the gift of God.

With what then can we atone for even the least of our sins? With our works? Even if our works are many and holy, they are not our own, but God’s.

Therefore, having nothing — neither righteousness nor works — to plead, our mouths are utterly stopped before God. If, then, we find favor with God, it is “grace upon grace!” “By grace you have been saved through faith.”

Grace is the source, faith is the condition, of salvation.

What kind of faith? Faith in Christ. Christian faith is a full reliance on the blood of Christ; it is a trust in the merits of His life, death, and resurrection. This kind of faith means resting upon Him as our atonement and our life. It is cleaving to Him as our “wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption” — or, in one word, our salvation.

This is a present salvation — something attained here on earth — by those who are partakers of this faith. This is that great salvation foretold by the angel, before God brought His First-begotten into the world: “You shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21).

–John Wesley

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc says:

Regarding my faith;

I am 54 years of age, I sought the Lord all of my life and never experienced the peace of God or the reality of my salvation until I entered covenant 4 years ago under the steward of Gods house Chief Apostle Eric vonAnderseck.

Therefore I am neither persuaded by your comments or your wrest of the scriptures to urge me to depart from the true and living God to go back to a dead faith with no eternal life or present reality of Christ in my life. Neither would I depart from the true Body of Christ, which walks in unity of the one true faith, nor will I deny the gospel of my persuasion which has grounded me in the faith and given me the lot and life I now possess in Christ with the future promise of my reward of eternity in the bosom of the Father.

What we experience in covenant is what is absent in the current denominational church system today also called the “many headed hydra” or “Satans seat” which promotes satans false doctrine and false Christ. Those bound in this system wrest the scriptures to their own destruction. They believe they have Christ in their hands through the text of scripture, yet deny Christ who is the LIVING WORD which no one can confine to the pages of a book. He is not pen and paper.

This pseudo doctrine being embraced by the church at large is a placebo which keeps satans servants bound in ignorance and hypnotized by false promises; you are they who “search the scriptures for IN THEM you think you have eternal life and they are they which testify of me”. Says Christ in John 5:39. You will never come to the knowledge of the mystery of Christ through the reading of the text for these are those” ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 2 Tim 3:7. The truth is in covenant as we are tethered to God by the 3 fold cord of government, truth and Spirit.

Satans doctrine possesses no power to purge the conscience, heal the soul or birth the very nature or life of Christ in the innerman; the life of Christ in us the hope of glory, therefore the beastly carnal nature will remain regardless of how good or moral you may become or how much you read and practice the written word; for the letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6. The Spirit of God will only bear witness to the record of Christ.

We in covenant experience the witness of the Spirit daily and also the many manifestations of Gods grace which he promises to those who worship Him in Spirit and in truth, we possess His peace which is other worldly and is not governed by our circumstances and we find our rest in Him as we seek him at the altar of our faith. He is the DOOR we enter through to commune with the living God; these are not mere words but our reality.

Everything in covenant furthers Gods plan and not the plan of man, it doesn’t cater to the flesh, but on the contrary teaches us how to die to the flesh that we may live both now and eternally IN Christ our Lord and King. Those who lack true faith, lean to their own understanding and instead choose to refute and reject truth who IS Christ, preferring to serve the Christ and gospel created by satan or their own imagination because it is what is familiar to them, taught by their pastor and themselves, appealing to their own flesh, aspiration, moral code and principle which only dresses them in the filthy rags of self-righteousness and not the righteousness of Christ.

Your doctrine requires no works of faith by which we overcome self, satan and the world, but instead feeds the flesh teaching men to blaspheme God by calling evil good and good evil. These will never inherit Gods kingdom. These are satans offspring, those whom God is preparing to accept the man known as the Antichrist. He will fit the Christ of their imagination in all ways except he will not be able to raise the dead, for only the one who is life can give life.

I find no need or persuasion to answer your questions any further which you have only ask not for the desire of truth or the furtherance of the knowledge of Christ, but for the purpose of gendering strife and debate as if this is all about who’s right and who’s wrong or for the purpose of gloating and pride. It’s about truth and life eternal,those who love truth embrace it regardless of previous indoctrination or the sting to their pride. Your lack of desire for truth is evident by your inability to understand our answers; for truth can only be seen when revealed by God through his grace and only as we humble our self to accept it by faith. God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble. 1Peter 5:5

Let it be made known that God is calling all who have “ears to hear” to come out from among them, the false religious system and be saved by returning to their first love and first works (Rev 2:4-5) of the covenant and the priesthood which Christ provided by the shedding of His blood. The covenant is the way of faith by which we walk in agreement with God therefore he promises to be our father and us his children.

This is an offer of clemency to save you from His wrath to come which will come upon the ungodly, the fruitless ones who walk contrary to all that is true and holy. Those who reject Gods offer of clemency will be made to shed their own blood for the rejection of the blood of Christ.

“Salvation is the product of the new covenant priesthood.”

In Christ ~Evangelist Melissa

Greg. says:

Monique,

Monique Babst wrote:

Observe the spirit and temperament of Greg that it is not Christ. .

I think if I had the spirit and temperament of the world in my prayer concerning Eric i think I would have prayed something like this:

Luke 9:54 (King James Version)
54And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Only the Lord and myself know the sincerity and meaning of my prayer, and those to whom the spirit reveals it.

Monique, Your judgement of me is based on a belief that I am acting in an unjust and unrighteous way towards my brother Eric, according to the scriptures you posted at least, from 1 John. But the thing is this Monique and I say this without any glee or malice and indeed say it with sadness somewhat, but I do not consider Eric to be my brother. Whatever about the brotherhood of humanity, yes, if you believe in such a concept and I do to a certain extent, but not a brother in the Lord. I have no fellowship in my spirit with Eric.

And why do I not have fellowship with him in my spirit? Because of this:
1 John 5

1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Eric and his teachings deny the very core and essence of this truth to be true. I wish it were not so.

Greg.

sylesa says:

Evangelist Melissa, Please try to understand that your “experience ” of peace and grounding are not a true barometer of truth. The scriptures alone can be that to you, an anchor for your soul when what you may or may not feel experiencially can change with any given moment, or changing circumstances of life. This is how people get drawn into cults, because it makes them “feel” or “experience” what they think is a relationship with the true God, when in fact it is a false peace. Our hearts are so decietful melissa, we cannot trust ANYTHING as trumping the WRITTEN WORD of God , to wit we do well to pay attention as a light that shines in the dark. God has given us EVERYTHING that pertains to life and godliness in His Word. Read the Word apart from Erics teachings, you will not see his teachings in the BIble. Take care

Burning Lamp says:

Melissa, you said:

“Salvation is the product of the new covenant priesthood.”

I am sad for you. Apparently you were never presented with the true Gospel from God’s Word. You were not really seeking God, you were seeking an EXPERIENCE. And that is what you have found, an EXPERIENCE. And you are in love with the EXPERIENCE.

Yes, the established church as an institution is wrong. But the Body of Christ is the true Church and does not include everyone in the “established” church with a little “c”.

You will come to realize your error at some point and I only hope that it will not be too late.

Tayara says:

Some would say “that’s why we have the scriptures”, and I say the letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life!

To Evangelist Melissa: the letter that kills refers to the Old Covenant(Laws) which was handed by God to Moses.The Old Covenant reveals God’s holiness and at the same time condemn sins. For there is none righteous no not one…and Jesus says,(correct me Deb,pls)the Word is a Spirit and they are life….

thanks Deb for this discerning blog…

Evangelist Melissa Bolduc wrote:

Deb for your learning experience regarding knowledge and its importance and necessity for faith;
The word “Knowledge” is in the scriptures 172 times, beat out by love=310,faith=247, wisdom=234,and known=222 which is in direct correlation to KNOW-ledge.
We cannot KNOW God apart from the KNOW-ledge of Him which we receive from Gods KNOW-Ledge Stewards called APOSTLES.
Some would say “that’s why we have the scriptures”, and I say the letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life! The life of Christ embodies the KNOWLEDGE of His truth,the (hidden) Mystery of Christ not the dead letter, for Christ is not pen and paper, He IS the LIVING WORD of GOD.
JOHN 5:39 SEARCH the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which TESTIFY of me.
ISAIAH 28
9 Whom shall he teach KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; LINE UPON LINE, LINE UPON LINE; here a little, and there a little:
13 But the word of the LORD was unto THEM precept upon precept, precept upon precept; LINE UPON LINE, LINE UPON LINE; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and FALL backward, and be BROKEN, and SNARED, and TAKEN.
HOSEA 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor KNOWLEDGE of God in the land.
6 My people are destroyed for lack of KNOWLEDGE: because thou hast rejected KNOWLEDGE, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
“The divinity and hidden things of God are beyond finding out through mans logic, reason and intellect, therefore we must seek God to know Him through the spiritual tokens he has authorized and sanctified for our faith.”
IN Christ~Evangelist Melissa

Greg says:

Chris,

What are you confused about?

Greg

Martin Horan says:

Anytime, Deborah. It’s you who deserves the thanks.

Micheline says:

Oi, a few spelling err above, pls forgive me Debs.

Truthful Conversation says:

My stomach turns at how people can become so deluded and deceived! What a load of rubbish these people preach.. you are so right about religious pride Martin.. and the pride in their false beliefs is astonishing! .. I looked at the picture, and personally it looks like a mahoosive tack (drawing pin) to me.