Pre-Trib – Suppressing the Truth in Unrighteousness
The Pretribulation Rapture: Suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Updated – see the addendum)
In this article, which is a follow-up of “PreTrib Rapture vs PostTrib Rapture” I aim to discuss the many questions I asked the No Pre-Trib crowd, Scott Pruitt, among them, which by the way, they refused to answer and eventually summarily banned me from their blogs and YouTube channels.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (KJV) For [God does not overlook sin and] the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who in their wickedness suppress and stifle the truth, (AMP)
There are several ways to suppress and stifle the truth. The most common is to flatly ignore it or to follow your own insights or predisposed perceptions. As strange as it may seem, this is not the most dangerous affront to truth. The most dangerous is to know what the truth is and yet kick against it, commonly termed “kicking against the goads (divine impulses).”
It involves the cunning usage of truth and presenting it in a package that conveys something totally different from that which it was originally intended to put across. Hence the description of Satan in 2 Corinthians 11:14 as an “angel of light.” He could never have been called “an angel of light” if he hadn’t known the truth. In fact, he knows it far better than the most learned Bible expositors and scholars and is therefore quite capable of using it and snaking it to his own advantage. A good example is the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness.
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. (Matthew 4:5-7)
In the previous verse, Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 8:3 when Satan tempted Him to make bread out of stones. It seems as though Satan’s stratagem was to try and convince Jesus from his own Scriptures that He ought to do what was required of Him.
If Jesus could quote from Scripture, so could he. However, Satan deliberately did not quote Psalm 91:11-12 accurately and completely. He intentionally left out “in all thy ways.” The Amplified Bible translates it as “in all your ways (of obedience and service).”
Our dear friends in the Word of Faith Movement are fond of pasting printed stickers of Psalm 91:11-12 onto their cars and homes. They seem to have forgotten that the foremost requirement for God to protect anyone is to do his will and NOT to use stickers as a kind of magic potion to protect them and their possessions.
It is not proper to test (tempt) God and expect Him to protect you. I’ve heard many women say they are not afraid to drive alone at night to their church meetings and Bible studies because God will protect them.
Are they doing God’s will when they themselves have no qualms to listen to and obey false teachers like Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, William Branham, Kathryn Kuhlman, Brian Houston, etc., not to mention false teachers in the rank and file of Calvinism and the Emergent Church? They are testing (tempting) God with their false teaching and yet they expect Him to protect them in all their ways. Jesus plainly says that God will not protect them.
Sadly, the no-Pre-tribbers are also quoting Scripture but badly twisting it to suit their own badly corrupted agendas, and even go so far as to label the pre-trib rapture as an idolatrous system, and a sacrificial system akin to children being offered to the god Molech.
Asking Questions for the sake of the Pre-Trib Rapture
The particular phenomenon of “kicking against the goads” is rampant in and among the No Pre-Trib clique. Their stubborn resistance to the truth (with regards to a pre-trib rapture) is so intransigently hard and rigid that we need to resort to an approach Jesus often used to expose the Pharisees’ errors, and that was, to ask questions. When the Pharisees asked Jesus to vindicate his authority, He asked them a rhetorical question.
And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority? And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things. The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him? But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet. And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. (Matthew 21:23-27)
So, without any further ado, let us go to some of the questions I asked them.
Jacob Prasch and Joe Schimmel challenged Paul Wilkinson to a public debate. However, their B & B (bravado and bravery) immediately turned into cowardice when they precipitously deleted all my comments on their YouTube channel.
Scott Pruitt followed suit when he deleted my comments on his blog No-Pretrib and promptly banned me. They are willing to take on heavyweights like Paul Wilkinson in a public debate but recoil in fear when a lightweight like myself takes them on in their own backyard.
Something is rotten in the State of Denmark, or perhaps we should rather say in the tribulation village of the No-Pre-Trib cronies? Here now are some of the things I posted which they unceremoniously deleted. They call their unloving behavior “Speaking (or is it, silencing) the truth in love.”
In their rebuttal to Paul Wilkinson’s video “Israel Betrayed, Part 2,” Jacob Prasch made a big fuss about Wilkinson’s alleged “whining and winging” whilst he himself was highly upset about Wilkinson’s allegation that they were being “thoroughly dishonest,” and “full of false accusations,” “unsubstantiated myths,” and “lies.”
Prasch called Wilkinson’s rebuke “highly inflammatory language” and said that “you don’t hear him talk about the love of Jesus.” Imagine the Pharisees’ reacting in the way Prasch did in the video when Jesus accused them with “highly inflammatory language” such as “You are of your father the devil . . . for he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44). He didn’t say to them, “Hi there, you bunch of honorable leaders of the synagogue of Satan. Please bear in mind that I love you and that what I am going to say to you now, is because I want you to know how much I love you.”
False teachers have an uncanny aptitude to divert the attention from the real issues at hand by accusing their opponents of emotionalism. John Haller begins by saying,
“We are here today, Joe, Jacob and I, to address some of the things that were said in Paul Wilkinson’s talk at the Berean Call Conference.
The title was “Israel Betrayed, Part 2, and during that talk it was clear that Paul became, some might view passionate and some might say angry. And he made very serious charges, one of which was that you, in the Left Behind or Led Astray Video, were being dishonest and the way you were presenting things. How do you respond to that?”
Jacob Prasch responded by saying:
“And to make emotionally evocative statements; You don’t hear him talk about the love of Jesus, you just hear academic language . . . It reminds me of the emotional kind of manipulation I saw with people, who he himself opposed in the counterfeit revival of Toronto and Pensacola.
They couldn’t deal with biblical substance; they couldn’t deal with actual fact. So they just began engaging in personal attack and emotional manipulation, masquerading as spirituality.
It was purely manipulative, whining; It was almost silly. It was simply emotionally charged, religious rhetoric, devoid of substance.”
The question I asked Scott Pruitt and his anti-Pretrib buddies were something like the following.
“Is it some kind of unwritten law that you must always first speak of the love of Jesus before you rebuke anyone for their waywardness and rebellion?”
Did Paul first say to Peter, “Oh Peter, my dearest brother in Christ. I want you to know that Jesus loves you so much and loathes it when you do not walk uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel” (Galatians 2:14).
This is how Jesus probably would have reacted to Peter’s attitude in Mark 8:33 if He followed Jacob Prasch’s law of loving Jesus, “Oh Peter, my dearest disciple, I desperately love you and please do not be offended when I say to you ‘Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men'” (Mark 8:33).
The very fact that Paul Wilkinson rebuked the three no-Pretrib musketeers in the way he did, is proof enough that Jesus, and he too, loves them dearly because He does not want them to fall prey to the wiles and deceptions of the devil.
You don’t always have to speak of the love of Jesus verbally. You only need to present his doctrines truthfully and honestly. Those who don’t are the ones who do not love Him.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 John 1:9-11)
On hearing Jacob Prasch, Joe Schimmel, and John Haller howling and wailing about how sorry they felt for themselves because Paul Wilkinson dared to call them dishonest and liars, I could not resists asking them the following question.
How do you intend to remain faithful to Jesus Christ during the seven-year tribulation when you whine, snivel, cry, moan, gripe, whimper and feel sorry for yourselves when someone calls you dishonest and liars, and you’re not even in the tribulation yet? How will you manage to endure the merciless killing, maiming, injury and martyrdom during the seven-year tribulation when you can’t even stomach a little verbal abuse, as you call it? Is that being manly? You must be kidding. Okey Dokey, is this the way you intend to prepare yourself and others for the seven-year tribulation? Oops, if so, you have already failed dismally.
Be on guard; stand firm in your faith [in God, respecting His precepts and keeping your doctrine sound]. Act like [mature] men and be courageous; be strong. (1 Corinthians 16:13, AMP Bible)
The anti-Pretribbers better learn to take it like real men otherwise they’re not going to make it during the tribulation. The very fact that they are so upset proves that they are not ready for the seven-year tribulation, which they say (as Pastors) they need to prepare their brethren for.
Some kind of preparation, I may add . . . How on earth can you prepare others when you yourself are far from ready for the seven-year tribulation?
They should rather have made a DVD thanking Paul Wilkinson for being instrumental in winning for them, our honorable three anti-Pretrib musketeers, glorious crowns, and rewards in heaven one day (Matthew 5:11-12). Be glad and rejoice and make another DVD in which you thank Paul Wilkinson for calling you dishonest and liars instead of you vilifying him. You don’t want him to receive a crown or rewards for the way you treated him, do you?
Jacob Prasch made a big spiel about Paul Wilkinson bragging about his credentials rather than speaking about the love of Jesus.
The question is this: Do the anti-Pretrib cronies really believe they are evidencing their love for Christ Jesus when they misrepresent one of his most important doctrines – the Pretribulation rapture?
Rather than proving Paul Wilkinson’s views of the Rapture false in the light of Scripture, the three anti-Pretrib musketeers focused their entire rebuttal on his presumed attack on their ministries and their pastoral shortfalls.
Charges such as How dare Paul call us heretics? and How dare he attack us? were the only allegations to come from their lips. That was not what I noticed in Wilkinson when I watched his video.
I could sense a deep heartbroken concern for the way Prasch, Schimmel, and Haller attacked the Pretribulatrion rapture and its focus on the preparation of the saints for the return of our Lord, claiming that the ministries of pastors who are preparing the saints for the secret return of Christ at any moment are leading them into the worst ever apostasy.
That’s more like saying that Jesus’ words in Mark 13:33 “Take heed, watch and pray: for you know not what the time is” is heresy. I commented as follows on their hypocritical concern to prepare the saints for the Antichrist in the next question.
Mr. Schimmel, what’s the worst kind of attack – an ad hominem or an ad Deum attack which you and your friends are guilty of?
Calling God, a liar and misrepresenting his doctrine of an imminent return of Christ Jesus at the Pretrib rapture is an ad Deum attack. Full stop.
Jacob Prasch made a mockery of Paul Wilkinson’s academic prowess but remained silent when Schimmel boasted that he had been a pastor for more than 25 years. Here’s how I responded to their hypocrisy which Scott Pruitt summarily deleted once more.
“Yeah, Mr. Schimmell, most WOF heretical preachers also claim they have been pastoring the flocks for more than 25 years. It means nothing – zilch, nada.”
More or less 14 minutes into the video, John Haller says, “In Paul’s talk he clearly equates the Blessed Hope with the Rapture. What does the Scriptures say about that?” Then Prasch took the floor and continued his tirade against Wilkinson without presenting a solid answer from Scripture.
Prasch seems to want to play the Muslim card of double-mindedness who are commanded by Allah to show an outward friendliness toward the infidels but to hate them in their hearts. Prasch says:
Again, my reaction is more of one that I would express as disappointment. I don’t want to call Paul the liar he called me, but if I didn’t know him personally I would have to say he was.
So, as you can see, with Prasch, truth is not the subject matter here but friendship. If you’re my friend, I will never call you a liar even if you do tell teensy-weensy little fibs now and again, but if you’re not I will have to call you a liar. This is called “Killing you softly with my song of friendship and love.” And I’ve always thought the very opposite of this is what the Bible requires of true Christians.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. (Proverbs 27:6)
Prasch’s rendition of this is: “Faithful are the kisses of a friend when you are his friend but his kisses are deceitful when you are not his friend.
Instead of proving Paul Wilkinson to be wrong, he affirmed that he was actually correct. Prasch continues to say:
“Scriptures says the diametric opposite of what Paul does. Let’s look at that passage in Titus chapter 2, to mention verse 11. “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, – that’s something of a polemic against hyper-Calvinism – instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.”
The irony is that the Posttribbers can never pray a prayer like the following every day, “Perhaps, today is the day when Christ will return to receive His Bride unto Himself. Therefore, I want to deny ungodliness and worldly desires, and live sensibly, righteously, and godly throughout this day.”
The only time the Postribbers will be able to pray this prayer once, and only once in their entire lifetime, in anticipation of a Posttrib rapture, will be right at the end of the seven-year tribulation which they believe is the time Christ Jesus will return to snatch his Bride up to meet Him in the air. It would be silly to pray this prayer every single day during the entire duration of the seven-year tribulation, knowing full well that He will only return at the end of the seven-year tribulation. Immanency, one of the rapture’s most important elements is thrown overboard.
Only the saints who believe in a secret pre-trib rapture can pray this prayer in accordance with Titus 2 and verses 11 to 13 and apply it as a blessed hope to their lives.
A bride’s blessed hope can only truly be a “blessed hope” when she expectantly and blissfully waits for her bridegroom to return at any moment so as to consummate their marriage.
She will make sure she is ready to receive him every single day of her life. “Oh,” the Posttribbers may argue, “we too are expectantly waiting for our Bridegroom to return. However, we know that when He returns, it won’t be a secret rapture because He said ‘and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen“ (Revelation 1:7).
This is yet another ludicrous misconception the Posttribbers are proclaiming to all the Christians whom they say they are preparing for the seven-year tribulation.
When are these guys going to use their God-given brains to realize it will be impossible for every eye to see the dead rise first and then those who are alive transformed into their new glorious bodies, and then caught up to meet Christ Jesus in the air, when everything is going to happen in the twinkling of an eye?
In his rebuttal to prove that a secret pre-trib rapture is a farce, Joe Schimmel loves to quote Revelation 1:7:
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
This verse refers to his Second Advent after the seven-year tribulation when He returns to set his feet on earth (Zechariah 14:4).
If it were true that the Rapture will occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation in tandem with Christ Jesus’ Second Advent to the earth, it follows that all the kindreds of the earth will have to blink their eyes at precisely the same moment so that they all may be able to see the Rapture at the same time. Why? Because the slightest delay in the blink of an eye will rob some of the kindreds of the earth to see the Rapture.
The blink of an eye is more or less 5.19 milliseconds in duration. A millisecond is 1000th of a second. That means you can divide a second into more or less 200 sections of more or less 5.19 milliseconds each. That’s quick. – very, very quick. Are the post-tribbers going to teach every single human being on earth how to blink their eyes at exactly the same time so that everyone may see the alleged Rapture at the end of the seven-year tribulation in exactly the same 5.19 milliseconds of a second? Should some blink their eyes outside the barrier of 5.19 millisecond of a second, they will not be able to see Christ Jesus’ second advent at the end of the seven-year tribulation.
The Posttribbers may probably argue that the twinkling of an eye is merely a metaphor to describe the nature of Christ Jesus’ second coming, in the sense that no more time or opportunities will be given for unbelievers to repent and be saved. Time to repent and be saved, they would say, will run its course to the very last millisecond which God in his wisdom had ordained to tick off before the inauguration of the 1000 years of peace on earth.
Then the door will finally be shut and no unbeliever will be allowed to enter the Millennial. However, their effort to change “the twinkling of an eye” from a time element to a qualitative or uniquely descriptive element fails because just before the words “in the twinkling of an eye” Paul uses the phrase “in a moment.” The word for “moment” used here is “atomos” from which the word “atom” is derived, and which Strong describes as an indivisible or atom or time.
Perhaps we can co-opt Jacob Prasch, Joe Schimmel, John Haller, and Scott Pruitt to convene all the kindreds of the earth to a massive meeting in the valley of Megiddo so that they may teach and train them to blink their eyes in the exact same moment of time (i.e. 5.19 milliseconds of a second) and accordingly prepare them for the Rapture so that every single person alive then may be able to see the Rapture take place at exactly the same time.
It follows that when it takes place just prior to the seven-year tribulation, it is going to happen so quick that only the saints who experience it will know that the rapture had taken place. Those who are left behind will know something had happened merely by the cataclysmic disasters across the globe when thousands upon thousands of believers driving cars, buses, trains and planes, suddenly disappear from sight. Indeed, they won’t see it at all.
I can already hear them say, “Ok, listen up ya’all. On the count of three, blink your beautiful blue, brown, green and black eyes at the exact same 200th section of 5.19 milliseconds in the duration of the last count of three. One, two, three. No, no, no, you are not doing it right. About a half a billion of you standing on our right side did not blink their eyes at the exact same time. Let’s try again. One, two, threeeeee.” Well, this will at least keep them busy right up to their post-trib rapture at the end of the seven-year tribulation so that they cannot trumpet their false doctrine on the rapture any longer for the rest of their lives.
Will the 70th week of Daniel be exclusively for the Jews or can we assume that it will also be for the Gentiles?
In response to Paul Wilkinson’s claim that the 70th week of Daniel exclusively applies to Israel, Jacob Prasch made a constrained effort to prove that it won’t specifically be the time of Jacob’s trouble as the Bible so succinctly says in Jeremiah 30:7.
The notion that the 70th week is exclusively Jewish, he says, is unsupportable from the book of Daniel and immediately dives into Daniel 12 where the prophet writes:
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:1-2)
Prasch bases his entire premise on that it is not exclusively Jewish but also Gentile in nature on his interpretation of “the book” mentioned in verse one. Before we dig into that, let’s first go to chapter 9 where the meaning of the seventy weeks is expounded more fully.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to finish the prevarication and to conclude the sin and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness and seal the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. (Daniel 9:24).
It flawlessly clarifies that the 70th week is exclusively Jewish. Yet Prasch claims that it is also Gentile in nature and should therefore rather be translated as follows.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and the entire Gentile world and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem], as well as on London, Washington, Peking, Moscow, Kabul, Algiers, Luanda, Buenos Aires, Vienna, Dhaka, Bridgetown Monaco, Rabat, Windhoek, Pretoria, etc. etc. etc. etc. to finish the transgression and to conclude the sin and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness and seal the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. [and also the temples, mosques the cathedrals, the churches, and all diverse and sundry gathering places of worship on the planet].
Is our Jewish friend oblivious to the fact that the entire Old Testament is exclusively Jewish in nature? Yes, of course, the Gentile nations are mentioned and discussed with equal importance in the Old Testament (as far as salvation is concerned), but always in relation to Israel and never the other way around. Why? Because Jesus Himself said “Salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22).
Doesn’t he know that the primary and core message throughout the Bible is God’s blessing of Israel and the blessing of the entire gentile world through Isaac, a circumcised Jew?
The Interlinear Hebrew and English translation, which can be viewed by clicking on this link, do not refer to a or the book of life. Contrary to what the above translation says, Jacob Prasch insists that the book refers to the book of life.”
It simply doesn’t say so. It merely refers to the book. What he’s doing, is called extreme eisegesis. There are several references to “the book” in the Old testament. There is the book of the covenant, the book of the wars of the Lord, the book of the law of Moses, the book of the law, the book of the law in the house of the LORD, the book that is found, etc.
Why didn’t Prasch interpret the book in Daniel in terms of any one of these books? Well, he doesn’t want to jeopardize his sacred mission to discredit and vilify a Pretrib rapture and will go to any length to read things into passages that are just not there.
Let’s look more closely at Daniel 12 verse 1 to see whether Prasch’s rendition is the correct one or just one of his eisegetical maneuvers to twist Scripture to his own advantage and his view of the rapture.
Before we do that, it is imperative that we take a quick glance at the previous chapter 11 because that will put things into context and a correct understanding.
One thing will be uppermost in the minds of Satan and his Antichrist during the Great Tribulation and that is to utterly annihilate the Jewish nation from the face of the earth because that and that alone will prevent Jesus Christ from returning to the earth, and fulfill his promise to set up His Kingdom on earth and to rule over Israel for all eternity. (Luke 1:31-33). How does he propose to do that? Chapter 11 tells us.
- Verses 36 and 37. The king (Antichrist) shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god. He shall not be content to exalt himself only above Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but also above every false god – Buddha, Allah, Krishna, Brahman – and shall blaspheme the one Triune God.
- Verse 39. He shall worship the god of fortresses
First of all, it can also be rendered a scroll or a register containing a list of names. To establish the purpose of these names having been written in the register, we need to take the other important features mentioned in the verse into account. The first, and perhaps the most important is the angel, Michael. Barnes says of Michael:
The meaning is, that he had the affairs of the Hebrew people, or the people of God, especially under his protection, or he was appointed to watch over them. This doctrine is in accordance with the notions that prevailed at that time; and no one can demonstrate that it is not true.
There is no authority for applying this to the Messiah, as many have done, for the term Michael is not elsewhere given to him, and all that the language fairly conveys is met by the other supposition. The simple meaning is, that he who was the guardian angel of that nation, or who was appointed to watch over its interests, would at that time of great trouble interpose and render aid.
It is absolutely vital to understand that Daniel 12 verses 1-3 refer to two groups of people, that is,
- the living Jews who are going to be delivered from the persecution of the Antichrist during the Second half of the seven-year Tribulation (Matthew 24:15-22) and in whose behalf Michael the Archangel will stand up to render his aid,
- the believing Jews who died throughout the duration of the Old Testament and are going to be resurrected prior to Christ Jesus’ Second Advent and the establishment of his Kingdom of peace on earth,
- the unbelieving Jews who are going to be resurrected, together with the unbelieving Gentiles, at the end of the Millennial age of peace on earth.
J. Dwight Pentecost writes:
The Old testament clearly teaches the fact of the resurrection (Heb. 11:17-18; Job 14:1-13; 19:25-26; Ps. 16:10; 49:15; Hosea 5:15-6:2; 13:14; Isa. 25:8; 26:19; Dan. 12:2; John 5:28-29; 11:24), but no revelation was made concerning the time element involved. In fact, one might have concluded, were it not for the revelation contained in the New Testament, that there would be a general resurrection, in which the saved and unsaved are raised together to be separated to their final destiny as taught by the amillennialists. However, the New Testament contains clear revelation to the contrary. There are several passages generally used to teach the false doctrine of a general resurrection. The first of these is Daniel 12:2-3, . . . No distinction in time seems to be made here and therefore it is concluded that a general resurrection is taught. 
The order of events in the resurrection program would be: (1) the resurrection of Christ as the beginning of the resurrection program (1 Cor. 15:23); (2) the resurrection of the church age saints at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16); (3) the resurrection of the tribulation period saints (Revelation 20:3-5), together with (4) the resurrection of the old Testament saints (Daniel 12:2; Isaiah 26:19) at the Second Advent of Christ to the earth; and finally (5) the final resurrection of the unsaved dead (Revelation 20:5, 11, 14) at the end of the millennial age. The first four stages would all be included in the first resurrection or resurrection to life, inasmuch as all receive eternal life and the last would be the second resurrection, or the resurrection unto damnation, inasmuch as all receive eternal judgment at that time.J. Dwight Pentecost, Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology, p. 398-399, 411
Having established to whom Daniel 12 verses 2 and 3 refer, we now need to turn our attention to the Jews who are going to be alive during the final 3 ½ years of the Tribulation whose names will be written in the book.
Please bear in mind that Jacob Prasch deliberately calls it the book of life although the NASB version he used only says the book, to prove that the seven-year Tribulation is not peculiarly Jewish in nature because many Gentiles’ names are also written in the book of life.
However, we must ask ourselves whether the book in Daniel 12 is merely a register containing the names of certain Jews or is it in fact the book of Life.
To answer the question, we need to remind ourselves that two-thirds of the nation of Israel is going to be wiped out by Antichrist during the second half of the seven-year tribulation and that a third will be spared by supernatural intervention of the angel Michael (Zechariah 13:8).
It follows that the book will merely be a kind of register containing the names of the surviving Jews so as to establish how many Jews were slain by Antichrist and how many survived his holocaust.
It amounts to something like a register or book in which the names of the Jews who had been slaughtered and also survived during the holocaust under Hitler had been enrolled. The JewishGen’s Holocaust Database is a collection of databases containing information about Holocaust victims and survivors. It contains more than 2.7 million entries, from more than 190 component datasets.
Will the book mentioned in Daniel 12 contain the names of all the Jews who are going to be saved during the seven-year holocaust? Hardly, because the mere registration of a name in a book or scroll, indicating that that person survived an ordeal, does not constitute redemption.
Matthew 25 proves that many of the surviving Jews whose names will be written in the book will not all be saved when Jesus returns at his Second Coming. In fact, the surviving Jews are categorized as wise and foolish virgins, respectively with enough oil (genuinely saved) and not enough oil (not genuinely saved).
Consequently, Prasch’s effort to prove that the seven-year tribulation will not be uniquely Jewish because the book of life, as he says contains the names of both saved Jews and Gentiles, is completely unfounded. It holds no water and must, therefore, be rejected outright.
Moreover, the rescue of the surviving Jews during the second half of Antichrist’s holocaust by virtue of the aid and intervention of the archangel Michael cannot possibly be understood as spiritual regeneration. Deliverance and rescue from evil by divine or angelic intervention in the Old Testament is not necessarily salvation proper.
Although many Gentles will be part and parcel of the glorious return of Christ Jesus at his Second Coming, it is plainly and overwhelmingly stated in Scripture that it will be an event mainly for the believing remnant of Israel.
There are several passages in Scripture that bear this out. The most forceful proof of this is in Acts 1:6 where the disciples asked Jesus, “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”
They obviously referred to the angel Gabriel’s announcement to Mary that she would bring forth a Son whom she had to call JESUS. “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.” Luke 1:31-33). If this is not exclusively Jewish, then I don’t know what is.
In fact, the mention of Christ’s earthly father David in the equation of setting up his kingdom here on earth is of enormous great significance. We know, and so should Jacob Prasch, that Jesus is a type of King David.
When David was anointed King of Israel, he did not immediately ascend to the throne in Jerusalem. While he patiently waited to be acknowledged and received as Israel’s king he suffered many hardships at the hands of his own people (brethren).
Likewise, Jesus, after having suffered and died at the hands of his own brethren, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven and is now waiting there patiently (2 Peter 3:9) to return and to ascend to the throne of his father David in Jerusalem which His Father had promised Him.
When Israel finally acknowledged David as their king and them being bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, he managed to unite Israel (also known as Ephraim) and Judah (2 Samuel 5:1).
When Jesus returns at his Second Coming (not the Rapture) He is going to unite Judah and Israel as his father David had done and rule over them from his headquarters in Jerusalem forevermore. Ezekiel 37 describes for us this magnanimous event when Jesus Christ returns to the earth at his Second Advent. Look at verses 15 through to 23.
The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (Ezekiel 37:15-23)
If this, which is going to transpire at the end of the Great Tribulation just prior to Christ’s Millennial Kingdom on earth, is not exclusively Jewish, then I don’t know what is.
At one stage in the video, Jacob Prasch pleads with Paul Wilikinson to stop accusing them of heresy and lies. “We also believe in the Rapture,” he says. Well, in that case, Prasch may as well say to the Pope. “I’m sure we can find common ground and start to work together to make the world a better place. Like us, you too believe in the virgin birth, death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. So let’s take hands and work together despite our differences.”
Allow me to remind our readers that Jacob Prasch, Joe Schimmel and Joel Richardson released a DVD called “Left Behind or Led Astray: Examining the Origins of the Secret Pre-Tribulation Rapture.”
In it, they attack vilify and misleadingly accuse some of today’s most prudent scholars on the Pretrib Rapture, including Thomas Ice, Paul Wilkinson and Tom MacMahon (The Berean Call).
The most shocking thing about their DVD is that they brand Jesus’ promise in John 14:1-3 which is a clear allusion to a Pretrib rapture, as idolatry, occultic and demonic (Please read Isaiah 5:20).
Jesus could not possibly have referred to a Posttrib Rapture in John 14 for several good reasons, which we cannot discuss here right now. Suffice is to say that they are playing with fire and need to repent of their heinous attacks on the Pretrib rapture.
One of their front-row and most ambitious henchmen is Scott Pruitt who loves to axe and delete your comments on his Facebook page “No Pre-Trib,” and his blog with the same title.
If we had still been living in John Calvin’s time, he would probably have had my head cut off or burned alive at the stake. The reason why he does not like me is because he cannot answer my probing questions.
The only tactic he could muster was to attack me personally and accuse me of things which they themselves are guilty of. Here’s what he wrote because he could not answer my questions and most importantly did not want others to hear the truth from Scripture (Please read Romans 1:18).
Tom Lessing has been banned. There are several reasons that I have done this.
1. He is a serial commenter that posts so frequently that I honestly do not have the time or the patience to respond to everything that writes. [Tom says: There were others on Pruitt’s blog who commented far more than I. Yet he blames me of being a serial commenter whom he did not have the time to answer. Really? I have never heard such a weak reason in my entire life. As Christians we ought to be ready to give an account of the hope that is in us, and that includes the blessed hope of the Pretrib rapture.].
2. He makes numerous unbiblcal assertions that demand correction, therefore I refer to reason 1. [Thomas says: Pruitt accuses me of unbiblical assertions but fails to counter my false assertions with the truth from the Bible. He certainly would never have made it as a judge or a lawyer who needs to prove someone guilty in accordance with the written laws of a country.].
3. He resorts to logical fallacies like red herring, guilt by association, straw man, false dilemma, and many others, and again to point all of these out sends me back to reason 1. [Thomas says: Here again, Pruitt gropes in the dark and tries to make me look like a Scarlet Pimpernel without making an effort to refute me from Scripture.].
4. He makes serious accusations against people often based on his own faulty exegesis or logical fallacies. Again I refer back to reason 1. [Thomas says: As anyone can see Pruitt likes to repeat himself endlessly without making a solid case against a Pretrib rapture and instead attacks me personally.].
5. While as of late, he has improved in this area, overall his comments tend to be snarky, and holier than thou. [Thomas says: My comments could only be seen as holier than thou because he did not have the blubbering decency to answer me or he had no clue how to answer me. Does Pruitt really think that calling the Pretrib rapture idolatry is the epitome of decency? He is not maligning me or anyone else but Jesus Christ Himself.
6. Therefore Tom Lessing is hereby banned. [Thomas says: Banning me is not going to make the Pretrib rapture disappear, Mr. Pruitt.]
I wasn’t surprised one little bit. Like the Calvinists who hate the truth and banned me from several of their sites and blogs, Scott Pruitt did what he could do best – ban the truth from the Word of God. (Remember Romans 1:18, Mr. Pruitt.).
One of the questions I asked, which they refused point blank to answer, is the following. I sincerely believe that this question not only debunks the Posttrib rapture but also completely destroys it.
Here’s what I asked on Scott Pruitt’s blog “No Pretrib.
Please answer my question. “No anti-Pretribber seems to have the goodly manners to answer my questions in a civil manner. So please make an effort to answer me because I really would like to know the answer. You don’t have to give me the $ 10,000 just yet. Let it earn some interest first.” (They offered an award of $10,000 to anyone who can prove that a single verse in Scripture describes a Pretrib Rapture. Please read here.).
Paul asserts that, at the Rapture, the dead in Christ will rise first and then the living believers will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye which amounts to the receiving of glorified bodies, not so? As such, it clearly corroborates Jesus’ rebuke of the Sadducees and their insipid reasoning surrounding the “who shall marry who in the resurrection?” question in Matthew 22: 23-30.
Let’s assume the Rapture will eventually take place at Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of the seven-year tribulation and just prior to the Millennium Kingdom of Christ Jesus on earth.
Who is going to be resurrected and who is going to be transformed from their earthly bodies into their new glorified bodies?
Are the believers, whom the Posttribbers say will go through the seven-year tribulation and survive the seven-year tribulation and all those who are going to be executed during the time of Jacob’s trouble, going to receive their glorified bodies just before they enter into Christ’s literal 1000 years’ reign of peace on earth?
We need to pause here for a brief moment to recap what the Posttribbers actually believe regarrding the rapture and its relationship to the Second Coming.
In order to get the Posttrib rapture to coincide with the Second Coming without disparaging the Millennial age of peace on earth, they must of a necessity argue that when Christ returns at the Posttrib rapture, all the deceased and living saints are transformed in the twinkling of an eye into their new glorified bodies, they are going to meet Him in the air and immediately return to the earth to enter into the Millennial Kingdom.
It is abundantly clear from the parable of the wedding dinner in Matthew 22:1-14 that only the redeemed of God will enter the Kingdom of Christ on earth and that the unsaved are going to be cast into outer darkness (another description for hell) when Christ returns at his Second Coming.
It follows that every single redeemed saint will enter the Kingdom in a glorified body which, according to Matthew 22:23-30, will no longer be able to procreate and produce children.
Please bear this in mind as we continue with the Posttrib motley. Every serious Bible student knows that Satan is going to be bound for a thousand years at the very end of the seven-year tribulation and loosed again for a little while at the consummation of the 1000 years to deceive the nations and gather them together for battle against Jerusalem, Jesus Christ and his saints. (Revelation 20:1-3; 7-9).
Now, for the million-dollar question which the Posttribbers cannot possibly answer. If only believers are going to be allowed to enter into the Millennial Kingdom, and if the post-trib rapture is going to occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation during which time every single believer will receive their new glorified bodies within the twinkling of an eye, and if they will no longer be able to procreate to populate the earth with people in natural bodies, from whence will the nations come who Satan is going to deceive and lead into battle against Jerusalem, Jesus Christ, and his saints?
There is only one way the Posttibbers can circumvent this watertight refutation of their Posttrib rapture and that is to call . . . no, no, you’re wrong; it won’t be a highly spiritualized 911 they will be dialing, but a 666, and promptly call upon the Nephilim to assist them in their abominable waywardness.
In fact, Joseph Prasch who is a master deceiver of the brethren will probably do his utmost to prove that fallen angels are going to force some of the saints who had received their new glorified bodies at the Posttrib rapture to marry them and produce the cuddliest little Nephilim to populate and grace our world.
And when these little Nephilim grow to maturity, they are going to follow their father the devil who will have been set free from the abyss after a thousand years, in a massive march and campaign against Jerusalem and demolish Jesus Christ and his saints in the twinkling of an eye.
Or perhaps Jacob Prasch will maintain that just as some of the Nephilim survived the flood (yes, he believes this nonsense), some are going to fly below radar and escape the razor sharp scrutinizing eyes of the King, so that He would not be able to see that they entered the wedding dinner without a wedding garment (Matthew 22:11-12).
Voila! Please meet the instant self-made husbands (fallen angels) of some of the saints who are going to take wives as many as they want from among the saints who received new glorified bodies at the Posttrib rapture, right at the end of the seven-year tribulation.
Above all meet their cuddly little Nephilim offspring who are going to play the popular Millennial hop-scotch game until they are mature enough to follow their father the devil into battle against Jerusalem, Jesus Christ and his saints.
Is Scott Pruitt of No-Pretrib fame (blog and Facebook) the best suppressor of the truth or the best enigma of this century?
Scott Pruitt, who follows closely in the footsteps of the master deceiver, Jacob Prasch, has tried his very best to downplay the very important topic of the population of the Millennium Kingdom on earth with no solid evidence from Scripture whatsoever. He writes:
Here Dr. Garland offers a solution looking for a problem. When the Bible speaks prophetically of the 2nd coming and the millennium to follow, we simply do not have all the facts. As Paul said, “now we see through a glass darkly,” meaning God has left out a lot of details about the future of His Kingdom. For example, the Kingdom on Earth is to last 1000 years. A lot can happen in 1000 years of history, and we are given precious few details. Rather than speculate what it may be like, maybe it would be wiser to focus on the gospel itself. The bottom line is this, if God indicates that people will reproduce during the millennial Kingdom, I’m willing to wait till then to see how he does it rather than making up a doctrine that allows me to accept it. Besides the scripture itself does not present this as a mystery to be understood like law vs. grace or the balance between predestination and free will, or any other controversial mystery.
Scott Pruitt’ ignorance of what it would be like during the Millennium Kingdom is indeed like a mirror (dark glass) exposing his extremist illiteracy. Scripture abounds with passages describing the Millennium Kingdom. Yet he sanctimoniously calls on saints to rather set their minds to the gospel itself, which I doubt he clearly understands.
I’ve often wondered whether he’s not a Calvinist in disguise which is much worse than those who are Calvinists in the open. How do I know? One sentence in the above quote from his blog gives him away and that is, “Besides, the scripture itself does not present this as a mystery to be understood like law vs. grace or the balance between predestination and free will, or any other controversial mystery.”
Aha! Pruitt alludes to the popular metaphor of two parallel train rails which in your immediate sight never meet but do seem to meet in the three-dimensional distance. John MacArthur explains this mystery of God not loving all people in the same way, as follows:
I am, however, happy to concede that God can resolve things that I can’t.
Pruitt goes on to say, “The bottom line is this, if God indicates that people will reproduce during the millennial Kingdom, I’m willing to wait till then to see how he does it rather than making up a doctrine that allows me to accept it.” O dear, oh dear, oh dear. Imagine Pruitt standing right in front of Jesus and telling him to his face.
Dear Lord Jesus, I believe every prophecy in your Word “but rather than making up a doctrine to accept” your prophecies, I prefer to wait until all those prophecies have been fulfilled before I accept them as being the Gospel truth. Don’t you know that seeing is believing, Jesus? Sorry Jesus, but that’s the way I prefer to discern everything coming from your mouth, because I want to make sure you are telling the truth and not a downright lie.
Allow me to remind Pruitt once again what happens to those who like to spit in Jesus’ face and suggest that He is a liar.
Then Elisha said, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the LORD, To morrow about this time shall a measure of fine flour be sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, in the gate of Samaria. Then a lord on whose hand the king leaned answered the man of God, and said, Behold, if the LORD would make windows in heaven, might this thing be? And he said, Behold, thou shalt see it with thine eyes, but shalt not eat thereof. So a measure of fine flour was sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, according to the word of the LORD. And the king appointed the lord on whose hand he leaned to have the charge of the gate: and the people trode upon him in the gate, and he died, as the man of God had said, who spake when the king came down to him. And it came to pass as the man of God had spoken to the king, saying, Two measures of barley for a shekel, and a measure of fine flour for a shekel, shall be tomorrow about this time in the gate of Samaria: And that lord answered the man of God, and said, Now, behold, if the LORD should make windows in heaven, might such a thing be? And he said, Behold, thou shalt see it with thine eyes, but shalt not eat thereof. And so it fell out unto him: for the people trode upon him in the gate, and he died. (2 Kings 7:1-2; 16-20)
Scott Pruitt has the audacity to accuse others of context ripping whilst he himself is a master context shredder. He says: “When the Bible speaks prophetically of the 2nd coming and the millennium to follow, we simply do not have all the facts. As Paul said, ‘now we see through a glass darkly,’ meaning God has left out a lot of details about the future of His Kingdom.'”
Pruitt’s reasoning reminds me of a discussion I once had with a Christian who could not make up his mind whether Calvinism was a doctrine from God or from Satan.
Having driven him into a corner, he too used the magic wand “now we see through a glass darkly.” I asked him, “Do you really think God would make the most important doctrine there is, so difficult to understand that we can only call it a dark glass through which it is very difficult to see clearly? How on earth are you going to lead someone to Christ when you tell them that salvation is very difficult to understand? It is like a dark glass through which we can only vaguely see.” They are suppressing the truth and don’t care a hoot about it.
Mr. Pruitt, please allow me to rebuke you, or rather remind you, that the context in 1 Corinthians 13:12 is not the Kingdom of God on earth but the gifts of the Holy Spirit (tongues and prophecy).
How do I know? Look at verse 10, “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” It cannot possibly refer to the Millennial Kingdom on earth because it will be far from perfect.
I’m sure you will agree that perfection will only be attained in heaven itself – you know, the place where God made his abode? Have you never read the following passage in Scripture?
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. (Isaiah 65:20)
As you can see, Mr. Pruitt, when you remove your dark glasses that hinders you from seeing clearly, you will notice that longevity will be a state of the art achievement – by the grace of God, of course – during the Millennium age of peace on earth.
Nevertheless, sin (imperfection) will still be part and parcel of Christ’s kingdom on earth which proves that many people are going to enter the Kingdom with their natural or mortal bodies – and hopefully, you will understand this – have sexual desires and the urge to marry, and sexual desires usually produce offspring (1 Corinthians 7:8-9).
It shouldn’t be necessary for me to educate you on matters of human behavior. Alas, it seems as though you have not yet reached the stage where Paul says: “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” (1 Corinthians 13:11). Grow up, Mr. Pruitt and read your Bible correctly.
Who is going to be transformed in the twinkling of an eye and caught up at the post-trib rapture?
The reason why Mr. Pruitt is so puzzled about the population of the Millennium Kingdom is because of his belief in a Posttrib rapture. The only way he and his cronies (Joe Schimmel, Jacob Prasch, John Haller and Joel Richardson) can solve this problem, is to assert that some of the Jews and the Gentiles who are going to be saved during the seven-year tribulation will enter the Millennial in their natural bodies so that they may have sex and produce little kiddies (1 Corinthians 7:8-9). Who else is going to do this when every single saint, including those who are going to go through the tribulation and those who are going to be saved during the tribulation, are all going to be caught up in the twinkling of an eye in new glorified bodies at the post-trib rapture? This begs another question.
If some of the newly saved Jews and Gentiles are not going to be transformed and caught up in the twinkling of an eye at the post-trib rapture, so that they may enter the Millennial Kingdom on earth in their natural bodies and populate it with naturally born little kiddies, what will they have done to forfeit such a glorious and awe-inspiring event?
Surely, those Jews and Gentiles who are going to be saved during the seven-year tribulation together with today’s saints who supposedly are going to go through the tribulation, will make up the Bride of Christ, or at least the Body of Christ, not so? If so, would Jesus, the Husband of the Bride, split or divide his Bride into two separate groups so as to rapture the transformed section and leave behind the non-transformed group for the purpose of populating the Millennial Kingdom?
The most abominable thing ever to grace the Internet is Scott Pruitt’s equation of the Pretrib rapture with idolatry. He even goes so far as to embed an illustration of the god Molech and men offering babies to him to vilify, malign, denigrate and slander the Pretrib rapture. What Mr. Pruitt is saying is that parents are sacrificing their kids to the god Molech when they teach them about the Blessed Hope (Pretrib rapture).
Here’s another question. If the Pretrib and Posttrib raptures have all the relevent elements of a rapture in common – the resurrection of the dead, the tranformation of living saints in the twinkling of an eye, and their immediate meeting with Jesus Christ in the air – what element is so uniquely relevant to the Posttrib rapture to prevent anyone from calling it idolatry? The only main difference between the two is their timing – the one before the seven-year tribulation and the other after the seven-year trribulation. Aha, according to Scott “no-Pre-Trib Rapture” Pruitt the desire not to escape the Day of the Lord (God’s judgmenmts and wrath dureing the seven-year tribulation upon the enire world) is the only defense against an accusation of being idolatrous, like the Pretrib rapture. Yet, God wars, “Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.” (Amos 5:18)
I have never witnessed such a disgusting thing in my entire life. I severely warned him by quoting to him Isaiah 5:20 but not even that put the fear of God into him and prompt him to repent of his evil. Sadly, this passage in Scripture may now be applied to him.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. (2 Timothy 3:13)
It is one thing to deny or not to believe in a Pretrib rapture but quite something else to attribute it to Satan, the occult, idolatry and the sacrifice of babies to the god Molech. Jacob Prasch, Joe Schimmel, Joel Richardson, John Haller and Scott Pruit are treading on very dangerous ground and need to repent of their evil before it’s too late.
What do the words “from the wedding” in Luke 12:36 mean?
Instead of answering the question, I thought it would be a good thing for our Posttrib friends to prove to us that they often do in fact use their God-given discernment to resolve so-called difficult biblical questions. So, for the sake of their own Posttrib stance, please answer the question, Mr. Scott Pruitt.
Please watch this excellent rebuttal to the “Left Behind or Led astray” DVD. It exposes to what extent of deceit, dishonesty and downright anti-biblical, anti-Christ tactics Joe Schimmel, Jacob Prasch and Scott Pruitt resort to, to vilify Jesus Christ and his Pre-Trib Rapture.
Please watch this space. I aim to discuss Jacob Prasch’s pathetic timeline below as soon as I can. In the meantime, our readers can try to decipher his timeline below.
I promised to discuss Jacob Prasch’s pathetic timeline. So, here goes. It took some time but circumstances prevented me from writing it earlier than was anticipated.
Salvation To The Uttermost
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25).
Salvation to the uttermost cannot possibly refer to the moment the Holy Spirit convicts a sinner that he/she is under the judgment of God and needs to receive forgiveness for their sins in order to be pardoned and received into the family of God as a redeemed sinner.
I deliberately used the words “redeemed sinner” because that is exactly what we are when we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross while we still remain alive and captive in a body that is easily disposed to sinning (1 Corinthians 10:12). If this salvation had been a salvation to the uttermost, God would never have commanded his saints to don his spiritual armor (Ephesians 6:10-11) every day and to mortify their members that are on the earth (Colossians 3:5; Romans 6:11).
The only acceptable conclusion is that “salvation to the uttermost” refers to the rapture when all the saints are going to receive their new spiritual bodies like unto that of Jesus Christ. Their new bodies will – then and then only – be completely delivered from sin, as well as the temptation and the urge to give in to temptation and therefore the continual need to mortify the members of their earthly bodies.
The question, however, is whether the “salvation to the uttermost” is going to happen at the Pre-, Mid, Partial or Post-trib rapture. If “salvation to the uttermost” involves a complete deliverance from the hour of temptation which God said is going to be unleashed on the entire world (Revelation 3:10), then it can only be placed before the seven-year tribulation. Any other placement thereof within the gamut of the seven-year tribulation cannot be interpreted as a “salvation to the uttermost.” Why not? Because God Himself is going to permit Antichrist to slay the majority of newly born-again Christians (Jews and Gentiles) during the tribulation (Revelation 13:7).
It follows that precious few Christians are going to be saved to the uttermost from Antichrist’s butchering spree. I really do not think that God would promise his Bride complete deliverance from Satan and his Antichrist and then make an about turn to allow them to be slaughtered by Antichrist. Therefore, it cannot possibly be his Bride who is going to be slaughtered by Antichrist but the Jews and Gentiles who are going to be saved during the seven-year tribulation.
Both the Mid-tribulation and Post-Tribulation views, including the Partial Tribulation view of the rapture have one thing in common. They all deny Jesus Christ’s ability to save his saints to the uttermost and, therefore, need to experience either a section or the entire gamut of the seven-year tribulation in order to be purified in preparation for Jesus’ Christ’s return at their particular raptures. In their view, it is no longer God Himself who saves his Bride to the uttermost but the wrath of Satan between the 4th and the 6th seal (See Prasch’s timeline above) that will purify and save them.
As such, they are advocating a Gospel plus something else which, according to Paul of Tarsus, is a tarnished Gospel, and consequently no Gospel at all. Subsequent to his eloquent description of the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4, Paul encourages his brethren to comfort one another with these words. (verse 18). If he’d had a Mid, Partial or Post Rapture in mind his words of comfort would probably have been something like the following.
Listen up, my beloved brethren, I urgently need to warn you that you are bound to go through at least a part of the seven-year tribulation. However, do not be anxious because the wrath of Satan which is going to be unleashed between the 4th and 6th seal is going to purify and save you to the uttermost. Comfort ye one another with these words.
The Wrath of Satan?
In their zeal to accommodate Jesus’ words in Revelation 3:10 in favor of their agenda, the enemies of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture must of necessity make a distinction between the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan, and even the wrath of Antichrist during the seven-year tribulation. They assert that the Bride of Christ will and must suffer the wrath of the antichrist and Satan so that she may be purified [as if the blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient), and subsequently escape the wrath of God.
Hence, Prasch’s positioning of the Rapture between the 6th and 7th seals just prior to the sounding of the seven trumpets and the seven bowls which Prasch pictures as the wrath of God. Consequently, God’s wrath will last about half of the second 3 ½ years of the seven-year tribulation plus 30 days of reclamation.
What they conveniently forget is that Jesus spoke of an hour of temptation. The question we must ask is whether this hour represents only a portion of God’s wrath while the rest is made up of the wrath of Satan and his Antichrist. Prach’s rendition suggests that Jesus said, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from a quarter of the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” (Praschevelation 3:10).
If we can prove that the entire scope of the seven-year tribulation comprises God’s wrath, we will have proven beyond any doubt that the Bride of Christ will not in any way, shape or form experience the seven-year tribulation because God unequivocally promised that his Bride would never suffer any shape or form of his wrath.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 5:9)
The Seven Seals
The very first thing we need to establish is whether the opening of the seven seals is uniquely God’s doing or partly Satan’s and his Antichrist’s exploits.
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:1-5)
The Lion of Judah’s worthiness to open the book and to loose the seven seals lies in the fact that He is also the Lamb of God who was slain for the sins of the entire world from the beginning of the foundation of the world. No other person, angel or demon in heaven nor on earth, neither under the earth will be able to open the book (seven seals) or even look thereon. He alone is worthy to open the seven seals. Let us get this traight from the start.
Anyone, including Jacob Prasch and his cohorts, who purport that the seven seals can be divided into three sections, i.e. the beginning of birth pangs (seals 1 to 3), the wrath of Satan (seals 4 to 6) and the wrath of God (seventh seal) are attributing to Satan which is attributable to God alone, and that is to open the seven seals on account of his worthiness as the Lamb slain from the beginning of the world..
Even if Jacob Prasch and his cohorts were correct in their assessment of the wrath of Satan between the 4th and 6th seals, he would still not have been able to vent his wrath and anger if Jesus had not given him permission to do so, i.e. opened the seven seals which He alone is worthy of doing, unless you believe that Satan is worthy to open the seven seals. Either way, the seven years tribulation is all God’s wrath and not Satan’s wrath, not even the time between the 4th and the 6th seals.
The number “seven” as we all know designates God’s perfection. We also know that Satan, in his efforts to be like God, will only be able to come up with a counterfeit form of perfection, designated by the number 666. To suggest that Satan and his Antichrist will be worthy to open the seven seals borders on gross blasphemy.
Prasch Continues on his Path of Rebellion Despite Stern Warnings
Like most Calvinists who have banned me from the blogs, sites, Facebook Pages and what not’s, Jacob Prach, Joe Schimmel, and Scott Pruit of “No Pre trib” infamy refuse to post my comments whilst they leisurely attack Deborah du Rand and myself. In one of his most recent one-way comments, Prasch wrote the following on Scott Pruitt’s blog.
JJ Prasch commented on Good Fight Ministries Responds to Paul Wilkinson.
in response to Scott:
In August of 2015, at the Berean Call Bible Conference, Paul Wilkinson made some very serious and unsubstantiated claims against Joe Schimmel, Jacob Prasch and Joel Richardson in conjunction with the release of a groundbreaking video called “Left Behind or Led Astray – Examining The Origins of the Secret Pre-tribulation Rapture.” The following is a […]
The fact that Laurian promotes the KJV Only Ruckmanite agenda and balks at the original meaning of the original languages in rejection of Nehemiah 8:8 is prima facie proof that Laurian is not to be taken seriously.
The fact that Mr Lessing resorts to silly religious rhetoric mis-applying scripture verses out of context speaks for itself. Contesting the fraudulence of those pretending a scholarly credibility when they have none and is not engaging in academic prowess. But even the secular world (Dunning- Krueger effect) that the ignorant are too ignorant to know that they are ignorant. Proverbs tells us that the simple can appear wise if they have the common sense to not speak outside of their sphere of knowledge. The fact is that I have statements of “Deborah” calling those disagreeing with her “Morons”, and I can document that she lied in her posted misquotations and even assigning to me things I never said. I do forgive her because she is well known to be a mentally sick woman. I am simply puzzled however why Mr. Lessing, even in his obvious ignorance, devotes himself to a life of service as her lap dog instead of dedicating himself to a life of serving Jesus.
Notice, how Mr. Lessing, his she-master , and Laurian all have erroneous agendas that they are unable to defend doctrinally. So they lie and/ or say ridiculous things. I have no problem with honest brethren who wish to debate issues on the basis of God’s Word, but agenda driven people too ignorant to know they are ignorant and too arrogant to admit it when they are proven wrong are a waste of time; especially when they need to compensate for their lack of substance by telling silly lies and pretending to know things which they clearly do not.
Mr. Lessing is Pre Trib. Let him represent or defend that view or let him fade into the irrelevant obscurity from which he came and cease playing his hideous games as the messenger boy for a troubled woman who needs help.
We should all welcome serious dialogue with serious Pre Trib Brethren. We should not however waste time with the dishonest, ignorant, and mentally ill.
[DTW note: Deborah has never called anyone morons or lied about Jacob Prasch – he says we say he is KJV only, we have never said that among other nonsense he accuses us of. What we have said is ALL on DTW to read and so are Jacob’s comments to us. Please see this article that contains all articles with all information provided that proves WHO said WHAT and WHEN. https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/14/discerning-the-world-defence-from-the-attacks-of-jacob-prasch-and-moriel-ministries/]
I responded as follows which, of course, they ignored and refused to post on Scott Pruitt’s blog.
False teachers have one thing in common. Whenever they are forced into a place or situation from which they cannot escape, they accuse you of ripping context apart whilst they themselves fail to elucidate the context. That’s why I wasn’t surprised when Prasch said of me, “The fact that Mr. Lessing resorts to silly religious rhetoric mis-applying (sic) scripture verses out of context speaks for itself.”
No, Mr. Prasch, it does not speak for itself. The right thing for you to have done – that’s if you want to live up to your high standard of self-aggrandized scholarship – is to explicate the true context. Instead you continue to resort to personal attacks on Deborah du Rand who, by the by, has more discernment in her pinky finger than what you have in your entire brain.
I will tell you how I came to this conclusion. Whoever finds it easy to vacillate between praise and rebuke, as you had done, of a false teacher like John MacArthur, cannot be trusted. First you said that he is a man of God who tells nothing else but the truth and then you rebuked him for his view of Christ’s blood. Could you not have seen that MacArthur’s heretical view of Christ’s blood is but the natural outflow of his heretical views on salvation? Do you really believe that MacArthur’s Calvinistic view that God does not love everyone in the same way, even to the extent that He did not die for everyone, is the truth and nothing but the truth which makes him a true man of God?
Having proved that you cannot be trusted, it is logical why you have the audacity to call the Pretribbers “dishonest, ignorant and mentally ill.” You need to repent, Mr. Prasch because you are playing with fire.
Men who abuse women – physically or verbally – are not men. They are wimps. Notice how Mr. Prasch laments my alleged “lap-dog-non-service-to-Jesus” whilst he himself does Jesus a gross disservice by calling the Calvinist, John MacArthur, a man of God and attributes to Satan what is attributable to Jesus alone.
Wickus we lost your comment – a small glitch. Soorryyyyyyyyy, can you come and comment again please.
I’m looking at that Prasch’s end times table, and oh wow… I am flabbergasted.
Does he not understand that the day of the Lord is the ENTIRE 7 years
Actually my head hurts too much right now to figure this out, I will try again later.
Paul told Timothy to reject foolish speculations because they cause quarrels (2 Tim 2:23 NAS). If the church were to take a stand against speculation there would be only one view.
Jesus not only taught about His return, but He then modeled it. In Acts 1:9-14 we see Jesus leaving the Mount of Olives to the clouds/sky, to heaven. After which the disciples were staring up into heaven, obviously looking to catch a glimpse of more, but the more didn’t come. Instead they were asked why they were staring up into heaven. The disciples were then informed that Jesus would return in “like manner.” Like manner would mean that when Jesus returns He will return from Heaven to the sky/clouds to the Mount of Olives. He made is clear and simple.
Today many bible teachers are still staring up into heaven searching for the more that isn’t there, so instead they proceed to make it up. As a result, we have multiple doctrines that simply are not found in Scripture. We have the Temple being rebuilt, the sacrifices and offerings being reinstated, and again taken away. We have the anti-christ making a covenant with many, and a conjured event of alive saints spending time in heaven. We now have a new word that is used to described to create another return of Christ. That word is “rapture.” This word is Latin in origin. First coined circa 1600 A.D. and was used to describe kidnapping and rape. The word was popularized by John Darby in the 1830’s in his book “the Secret Rapture of the church”, and since that time it has grown into being known as a first return of Christ, preceding a “second advent.” Without the coinage of this word, “rapture,” it becomes extremely difficult for its supporters to explain this conjured event. Some tell us that one is the day of Christ, while the other is the day of the Lord, as if Christ and the Lord are two separate entities. For those who don’t know; Christ is the Lord.
1 Cor.15:51,52, the pretrib doctrine focuses on these two verses out of context in this long passage and totally miss the fact of the mystery revealed. Instead the pretrib doctrine claims mystery and therefore obscurity. With this obscurity they can make up any winds of doctrines that they wish. However, Paul starts speaking of the return of Christ in verse 24. By this he starts to lay a foundation for the mystery he is about to reveal. Paul is known for calling himself a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Contrary to the Saducees, the Pharisees taught that there were angels, the resurrection of the dead, and that man has a spirit as well as a body… see Acts,23:8. Therefore Paul spent a great deal of effort debunking what the Saducees taught the people…. that there was no resurrection of the dead. In this passage in 1 Cor. 15 Paul also went to great lengths to show that we have a spiritual body and a physical body. We know that our spirits are eternal in nature and that our physical body becomes corrupted when it dies and rots in the grave. We know that our physical body is mortal and that Adam brought about this mortality when he sinned, “…through one man, death entered into the world through sin…” Prior to the fall in the garden, man’s physical body was immortal. Paul declares the revealed mystery of our physical bodies being changed. (our spiritual bodies are not mortal, nor corruptible, however our physical bodies are (corruptible as defined in Acts 2)). When we meet Him in the air/clouds our physical bodies are changed…. those who are alive and remain, their bodies are changed from mortal to immortal… this is the reverse of what happened to Adam in the garden. The dead saints receive AGAIN physical bodies… this time incorruptible ones that cannot rot in the grave. At no time does the physical body ever go to heaven…. “…flesh and blood cannot inherit…” When John was called up here… immediately he was in the spirit… Rev. 4:1,2. The dead saints were perfectly happy and content in heaven without the cumbersome physical Earth suit necessary to survive on Earth. However, all of a sudden they AGAIN receive a new physical Earth suit, at the time where Jesus is about to rule and reign for 1000 years. Could it be that they actually need a physical body to rule and reign on Earth with Jesus for 1000 years…. absolutely…. this is the mystery that Paul is revealing. Without a physical body the dead saints would be disembodied spirits still floating around in the spirit realm, not capable of ruling and reigning with Christ. Isaiah makes reference to these bodies in Is. 65:20. Those who are alive and remain never go outside of the sky/clouds realm of the Earth… of course, they can still reproduce. However, the pretrib doctrine has these new bodies heaven bound…The conjure up that these bodies are glorified rather than what the Paul states here in the Word… immortal and incorruptible. Their idea is totally unsupported by the Word and contrary to the mystery revealed by Paul, and contrary to what Jesus modeled in Acts 1.
My question to you is: Why does the dead saints who have been content living in their spiritual bodies in heaven, all of a sudden need a new physical earth suit to go back to heaven in at the point when we are all changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye? Of course, its rhetorical, they don’t need new physical bodies in heaven, but they will on Earth to rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years!
Yes , you are right; the day of the Lord is the full 7 years of the time of Jacob’s trouble.
Jesus the Christ opens the first seal, so it is His Wrath all the way through. Satan is allowed to do certain evil events in that time period ,but only as Satan is allowed by God. As I perceive the scriptures, post trib is impossible and another problem with post tribulation is that it has to use replacement theology to place the church in the time of Jacob’s trouble.
Thank you Paul. You have summed it up perfectly.
YAY Paul Ryan!!
Thank you 🙂
In fact I wrote an article on this here about Jacob Prash explaining the whole Day of the Lord and Jacob Prasch read it, then proceeded to insulted the living daylights out of me and then ran away without explaining his doctrine at all. So much for the ‘love of Jesus’ in his comments. I wonder what ‘Jesus’ he was referring too? Certainly NOT Jesus Christ the Son of God but another Jesus with another gospel.
The KJV reads as follows:
It is somewhat different from the NAS translation. In fact, there is a vast difference between “foolish speculations” and “foolish questions.” According to the most distinguished dictionaries “to speculate” means to form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence. As such “to speculate” means to make a statement which, and hopefully you will agree, cannot possibly be likened to questions, let alone “foolish and unlearned questions.”
Foolish and unlearned questions tend to steer a debate away from the subject at hand and onto paths not related to the main subject, making it difficult for others to follow the main thread of thought in such a debate. This was the kind of thing Paul told Timothy to guard against because one can easily fall into a trap when you try to answer foolish questions. King Solomon, the wisest of men, gave a similar warning in his Proverbs.
Having proved that “speculations” and “questions” are far from being the same thing, your above statement is rather flimsy and dangerous. What you should have said, is that if the church were to disobey God and refuse to contend for the faith which was once delivered to her (Jude 1:3), there would be only one view – the view of the majority and that’s exactly what Satan wants. Why? Here’s the answer:
Asking questions, that is, the right kind of questions and not just foolish ones is a sign of spiritual maturity.
Let us now continue to address your remaining statements and questions. You said:
Jesus could not have taught or modeled his return in terms of the rapture in Acts 1:9-14, for the simple reason that He did not reveal it to any of his immediate disciples at that particular time. He chose the apostle Paul, who had not yet been saved when Acts 1 was written, to reveal the mystery of the Rapture to the church.
And, by the by, the word “musterion” (mystery) has absolutely nothing to do with “obscurity” which you say lends itself to the forging of all kinds of false and imaginative doctrines. The word “musterion” refers to a truth (or doctrine) previously unknown or hidden until God, by sovereign decree, reveals it to a chosen vessel (in this case, Paul of Tarsus) so that he may make it known to the saints. Hence Paul’s magnanimous declaration in 1 Corinthians 15:15, “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” It is absolutely ludicrous to call something that God has already revealed through his chosen vessel an “obscurity” (unknown, inconspicuous, or unimportant).
Yes, of course the rapture was still unknown and inconspicuous when two angels told the disciples “this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven,” because they were referring to his Second Coming to the earth (Zechariah 14:4) and not the rapture.
Many Christians, if not most, cannot wrap their minds around the imminent return of Jesus Christ at the rapture because the word “rapture” does not appear in the Bible. That would probably have been a very good reason to renounce it if the word “Trinity” actually appeared in the Bible. The fact that the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible makes it rather difficult for you to renounce the rapture just because the word “rapture does not appear in the Bible, doesn’t it?
Are you going to renounce the Trinity just because the word “Trinity” does not appear in the Bible? Hopefully, you believe in the Trinity — Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, I doubt very strongly that you do because you reject some of the most important eschatological doctrines, that is the rebuilding of the Temple during the Seven-Year Tribulation AND the Millennium, the reinstitution of animal sacrifices during the Millennial age of peace on earth, the Antichrist making a covenant with many and the “event of alive saints spending time in heaven” as you said. I am not going to discuss these doctrines with you here. You yourself should search the Scriptures to see whether these things are so.
Although the word “rapture” does not appear in the Bible, the phrase “in the twinkling of an eye” should certainly have caught your eye, but unfortunately, it seemed to have slipped you the moment you closed your eyes. Now, if you’d been a Berean, like you should, you would have noticed the intentional repetition of two phrases that have exactly the same meaning. Whenever this occurs in the Bible, you must know that the author wants to reveal an exceptionally important truth to his readers. These two phrases are “in a moment” and “in the twinkling of an eye.” The word for “moment” is ἄτομος” (atomos) which literally means “an atom of time” and is practically indivisible. The word “ῥιπή” (rhipē) for “twinkling” conveys the very same idea, which is “in an instant.” So, here we have two descriptions of the very same time element which is so quick that nobody will actually see it happening.
The critics of a Pre-trib rapture love to quote Revelation 1:7 in an effort to prove that the rapture will occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation. However, this alone proves that the post-trib rapture view is completely at odds with the “in a moment” and “in the twinkling of an eye” scenario. Imagine every single person alive at that moment when He returns at his Second Advent to the earth having to blink their eyes in the very same atom of an instant so that they all may see Him coming in the clouds. Those who are going to blink their eyes a fraction earlier or later will not see Him coming in the clouds. They will only be able to see Him when He has already set foot on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4), that is, of course, if the rapture is going to take place in tandem with his Second Advent at the end of the seven-year tribulation.
The phrases “in a moment” and “in the twinkling of an eye” describe to perfection the nature of the word “harpazo” which actually does appear in Scripture (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The word ἁρπάζω (harpazō) literally means “to seize by force” or “to take up by force.” I’m sure you will agree that the instantaneous departure of the saints, which we call the rapture, fits to perfection the magnanimous and unique eloquence of the phrases “in a moment” and “in the twinkling of an eye.”. Indeed, the terminology alone proves beyond any doubt that the rapture is a divinely instituted phenomenon and shall occur at any moment, whether you believe in it or like it or not.
A major mistake you made was to narrow down the rapture phenomenon to a single aspect and that is the instantaneous makeover of the living saints from their natural or earthly bodies to spiritual bodies. And, to validate your premise you made a big spiel about Paul being a Pharisee whose main purpose it was to debunk the Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead, and not to reveal an unknown doctrine which had been concealed right up to that moment when he said, “behold, I show you a mystery.”
Then you go on to say that “dead saints receive AGAIN physical bodies . . . this time incorruptible ones that cannot rot in the grave. At no time does the physical body ever go to heaven…. “…flesh and blood cannot inherit. . .”
First of all, if it were true that the deceased saints are going to receive “incorruptible physical bodies” comprised of flesh and blood that cannot rot in the grave and yet will not be allowed entrance into heaven, then we must ask ourselves whether you are also signifying that those with “incorruptible physical bodies” are going to return to the grave never to rot again.
The reason why I ask this is because you referred to 1 Corinthians 15: 50 that says, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” So, again, whence are they going if not to heaven? Your statement right at the end of your discourse seems to be an effort to answer your own enigmatic question, and that is “My question to you is: Why does the dead saints who have been content living in their spiritual bodies in heaven, all of a sudden need a new physical earth suit to go back to heaven in at the point when we are all changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye? Of course, its rhetorical, they don’t need new physical bodies in heaven, but they will on Earth to rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years!”
Indeed, the rhetorical question is this: “Where are the saints who are going to receive “incorruptible physical bodies” to enter the Millennial age of peace on earth to rule with Jesus Christ, going when the entire cosmos is going to be devoured by fire? Are they going to remain on the new earth? I don’t think so, because if your premise is correct that the saints who have received incorruptible physical bodies will not be allowed entrance into heaven, then they will also not be allowed to rule on the new earth, simply because the earthly kingdom will, at last, be like heaven. Remember “Let thy Kingdom come on earth . . .?” So, if they are not going to be allowed to enter into heaven because their “incorruptible physical bodies” have blood flowing through veins in fleshy tissue, they won’t be allowed to enter into the new earth like unto heaven as well.
The million-dollar question is, “Why do you distrust God’s power?” Wouldn’t you say God is capable of providing the deceased saints at their resurrection with the very same spiritual bodies the living saints are going to receive in a moment and in the twinkling of an eye when Jesus returns at the Pre-Trib Rapture? Moreover, none of the deceased saints who are now in heaven have received their spiritual bodies yet.
Their spirits together with their redeemed souls minus their earthly bodies (which are rotting in their graves) are now in heaven. Only Jesus is now in heaven complete with his resurrected spiritual body. I should think that the deceased saints who are now in heaven without their spiritual bodies are all longing and looking forward to that day when they are going to receive the very same kind of body (a spiritual body) like unto that of Jesus. And this answers your question “Why do the dead saints who have been content living in their spiritual bodies in heaven, all of a sudden need a new physical earth suit to go back to heaven in at the point when we are all changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye?”
Why? Because they all want to be like Jesus – not in terms of what He was in his physical body while He was still on earth but in terms of his spiritual body as He is now in heaven.
Is Jesus’ spiritual body any different from the body He had when He was still on earth to bear the judgment and punishment for our sins? YES! The difference is this.
1. It is a body that can go through closed doors and walls.
2. It is a body one can touch and feel. In fact, you can thrust your hand into his side where the spear of the Romans soldier pierced Him when He hung on the cross.
3. Does his spiritual body have blood flowing through his wounds? Had there been blood in his spiritual body, it would have been oozing out his gaping wound in his side.
And so, there we have it in a nutshell. The spiritual body is a dimensional body of some sorts which you can touch and feel but can go through closed doors and walls with no blood flowing through veins in fleshy tissue. Voila! It is an incorruptible body that may enter into heaven.
In summary: As I said before, your fundamental error is to isolate the mystery to a single part of the rapture, i.e. the receiving of spiritual bodies among the living saints. The fact is that both the deceased and the living saints are going to receive spiritual bodies like unto that of Jesus and are going to be raptured simultaneously to meet the Lord in the at the Pre-Trib Rapture.
You are right Tom, Jacob is an abuser of women and one can only thank God that he is not a doctor because if he was everyone one would be demon possessed. Can you imagine him walking into a hospital shouting out at auto-immune diseased patients “You who dare question me!! You are nothing but devils, you possessed daughters of Satan, mentally insane…..”
Jacob Prasch can’t answer our questions with a biblical rebuttal so all he has left is to insult us personally and make up lies about us. Everything that was said to Jacob Prasch is on DTW’s website for EVERYONE to read. There are no lies about you Jacob. Everyone can read all comments in the articles mentioned here: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/14/discerning-the-world-defence-from-the-attacks-of-jacob-prasch-and-moriel-ministries/
Also I first forgave Jacob Prasch here: http://nopretrib.com/good-fight-ministries-responds-to-paul-wilkinson/?replytocom=2635#respond and if you notice I did not insult him before or after I forgave him for his horrific attack on me and everything else he has done to me over the last 2.5 years.
Dear Jacob, when you forgive someone you don’t insult them before and after you supposedly forgive then. That is what is called an EPIC FAIL. That’s not forgiveness that is called lying.
Jacob rails against Darby saying he invented pre-trib or stole the idea from Margaret. Not only is he wrong, as people like William Watson have demonstrated, but his own view was established late last century. The prewrath view is both confusing and disjointed. Its proponents insist there’s only one more coming of Christ yet its founder actually taught four. I don’t see where Jacob ever defends his own view without ad hominem attacks on pretribbers as support.
One of the people mentioned above also contacted me unsolicited asking for money for their anti-pretrib ministry. Seriously? What about the gospel?
Good responses to boldncourgeous. He/she has a website attacking pretribulationism and regularly does the rounds posting comments on pretrib forums. What a waste of time!
The problem Jacob Prasch has is that he either does not understand Scripture or outrightly denies what it teaches.
Hi. I have read through your posts on Jacob Prasch. I use to like him but have since seen the light of his railings and bad mouth. There was a bit of a scuffle between him and his ministry and a woman discernment blogger. In the video included in her post about her experience with Prasch (I will link both below) he mentions you towards the end of the video. SMH am just shocked at how ungodly Jacob Prash is. And the woman whom he names in the video as “godly” one of them is Kay Arthur, who is into contemplative prayer and mysticism. :-/
Video – http://youtu.be/ejpQZdVFZAE
Post – https://mkayla.wordpress.com/2016/07/13/an-encounter-with-a-madman-or-two/
You have confirmed what we have been experiencing with Prasch for many years. He is not a nice man.
Indeed, women are at liberty to teach sound doctrine, with the emphasis on “sound,” especially in marriages and in situations where the men have failed to do their godly duty. I for one sat under the teaching of an elderly woman for many years in her weekly Bible studies and never regretted it. However, in today’s climate of global feminism most churches, and in particular the WOF and prophetic movement ministries, have gone overboard in their appointment of female pastors. This is not a good thing because most of them are still very young and not at all well-grounded in Scripture. In God’s order of things, women are not supposed to make unilateral decisions, especially in matters of spiritual importance. When Eve gave the forbidden fruit to her husband she had already eaten of it. I’m not saying that men are not prone to deceit. In fact, men have contributed a lot of the rubbish that is being disseminated in churches today. Nonetheless, it does not take away the fact that God has a certain order of things and we are supposed to honor it. Yes of course women should not be silenced when men teach false doctrines and lead many astray. They should speak out against it boldly
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate it!
I went to watch this video, my goodness he just never stops. You see if you as a woman follow Jacob Prasch and never question him like Kay Arthur and Caryl Matrisciana did…they obviously never questioned him, then you are as a women allowed to preach, but if you question him…ohhhhhhhh now you have occurred the wrath of Jacob Prasch and you become crazy, demented, vile, a witch etc.
Jacob Prasch…I pray for your salvation.
====>>>>>”never question him like Kay Arthur and Caryl Matrisciana did…they obviously never questioned him”<<<<<==== What???? Have I misunderstood? Are you saying Caryl Matrisciana had some tie to Jacob Prasch? If so was she not pre-trib, was she a nephilim espouser as well?
May I Not Clang
I’m not saying anything, all I know is that if you disagree with Prasch you are on his hit list. If you don’t disagree with him you are in his good books.
The catching up of the saints which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord does not happen until the dead rise first (the resurrection)(I Thess. 4:16-17). Therefore no rapture til the resurrection. Job said no resurrection til the heavens be no more(Job 14:12). Now John says ” the heaven departed” after the sun becomes black as sackcloth of hair, the moon becomes as blood; and the stars fall from heaven(Rev. 6:12-14). My Lord seems to be referring to this same event which He says happens after, that is, immediately after the tribulation of those days (Matt. 24:29-31). Notice the gathering of the elect in verse 31..therefore no rapture til after the tribulation of those days (the great tribulation ) see Matt.24:21. Also my Lord said the resurrection is ” at the last day”(John 6:39,40,44,54) 4 times in one discourse, he said at the last day, not seven years before. Also my Lord charged His church to go and teach all nations, baptizing them, teaching them to observe all things that He has commanded us, and He promised to be with us for this “even unto the end of the world” (not to be confused with seven years before the end). My Lord also said He would gather the children of the kingdom at the end of the world (Matt. 13:30 and 39), (this also not to be confused with seven years before the end of the world). all this is in perfect harmony with Paul’s timeline in Eph. 1;10, II Thess. 1:7-8, and 2:1-4. As for Scofield, Darby, Pentecost, and Dallas Theological for that matter, who cares? They are no authority . Please brethren, keep it Bible. I will stick with Job, John, Paul, and most certainly my Lord, to Whom all honor, praise, and glory. AMEN
PS All this is in perfect harmony with Peter’s timeline (II Pet. 3) “the heavens shall pass away”
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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Kevin Gregory. What’s the point in quoting whole passages from Scripture whilst you’re entire eschatological context is completely wrong? Let me ask you this: What is God’s purpose with the seven-year tribulation (Daniels 7oth week)? Quoting whole passages from Scripture, as you did, without giving us any hint why you are doing so, is rather confusing. What’s your point?