Jacob Prasch the Railer
DTW exposed Jacob Prasch from Moriel Ministries here: Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way. Not long after the article was published, Jacob Prasch unfortunately graced us with his presence and commented on the blog. Jacob Prasch had nothing nice to say; it was so bad that he even emailed us and told us there was No Euphemism for a Liar and then continued to insult, ridicule, demonize, and slander us.
Someone did a summary count of all the nasty, vile things he said. I went and did a full recount of what Jacob Prasch actually said in the comments section – shockingly this only includes 4 comments and 2 emails and excludes a comment of Jacob Prasch’s I deleted.
The list is as follows:
- 20 times liar
- 1 times slanderer
- 1 times thug
- 2 times pathological liar
- 1 times disgusting liar
- 1 times religious liar
- 1 times religious fruitcake
- 1 times ministers of Satan
- 1 times demonized liar
- 1 times filthy demon inspired liar
- 1 times stupid woman
- 1 times crackpot
- 1 times inspired by demons
- 3 times slanderer
- 1 times fraud
- 1 times narcissistic
- 1 times charlatan
- 8 times demonic
- 1 times slandering witch
- 1 times slandering witch motivated by demons
- 1 times wicked daughter of darkness
- 1 times demons from whom she unknowingly takes her orders.
- 1 times babbling religious crackpot
- 1 times cheap mouthed hooligan
- 1 times ignorant
- 1 times spiritually deluded buffoon
- 1 times servant of demons
- 1 times daughter of Jezebel
- 3 times ignoramus
- 2 times idiot
- 2 times stupid/stupidity
- 1 times lunatic
- 1 times low life
- 1 times perverted/perverse
- 1 times poisoned spirit
- 1 times diseased soul
- 1 times low ranking volunteer soldier in Satan’s arm
- 1 times service of your father the devil.
- 1 times threatening on behalf of God; “The Lord however most certainly shall deal with you, I am quite assured. Vengeance is His and He will have it. He is sometimes slow, but never late !”
And then he has the audacity to sign off…
This is the reason I have been attacked, for exposing his doctrine (please read all comments):
What does the Bible say about his shocking behaviour:
1 Corinthians 5:11 “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”
What is a railer, or a reviler?
It means to express objections or criticisms in bitter, harsh, or abusive language. To be verbally abusive.
re·vile (r
-v
l
)
Jacob Prasch and his lack of euphemisms:
“I don’t like to revile, but it is just so hard to find a euphemism for a half literate ignoramus”
f
-mz
m)
This is not the first time Jacob has struggled to find a EUPHEMISM when calling people names. See this email he sent to John Chingford with the subject title NO EUPHEMISM FOR A LIAR. see the following comment: Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash way – 2012/11/28 at 8:56 am
Thank you for “completing” my partial list. The list I compiled only included ONE e-mail and insults that were DIRECTLY aimed at you, Deborah.
I didn’t include those directed to other people, including myself.
I have a letter from Jacob regarding this which I’ll share after explaining.
I am strongly with you on the matter of his unsound speech, not gentle one bit, always seeming to strive, no meekness in instructing, questioning people’s salvation and of course the reviling. He has the manner of the accuser of the brethren, but still no one holds him to account, they say they don’t really like it, but they haven’t seemed to understand they should not even be associated with such a man.
More than once I used that passage about not keeping company with a railer, but somehow it didn’t seem to matter.
We posted your article on a FB group. Jackie Alnor came in to ask who the article was written by. Then she said, “Anyone who has ever been associated with Calvary Chapel, that includes me, according to this article is a false believer.” She added, “ Anyone who is on the up-and-up will put their name to their work” and asked again who wrote it and told us if we didn’t know, not to spread slander.
She said the “The author shows his ignorance by confusing biblical usage of midrash with rabbinic midrash – only an uneducated person intentionally trying to confuse the issues would confuse the two.”
So I asked what Biblical midrash was, and who defined it. Chapter and verse please…
As you suggested, I asked a couple of the list of my questions I had posted on your prior article regarding Shadow of the beasts. BTW, I found more problematic things in that book.
Then, Jackie Alnor started posting upon post of Jacob Prasch’s explanation of Midrash, with his typical aggressive manipulations and suggestions that those who do not agree, are foolish virgins with oil-less lamps.
She said it was slanderous for you to connect Jacob to Lonnie Frisbee, a man she said
(Later Jacob would say the same.)
Jackie continued,
So after several lengthy posts with more of Jacob’s unkind and unsound diatribes towards those who didn’t take his word for the use of Midrash. Jackie said we were repeating such garbage, (by posting your article) and those who did were
I asked her some more questions, she asked me who I was quoting, and I told her it was my own wordds and questions. So she said she was “satisfied with Jacob’s response to the biblical understanding of midrashic interpretation…”
I told her I was never satisfied by any other man/woman’s understanding, if basically we could not back up what the supposed Biblical method was, without using extra-biblical sources, which Jacob is wont to do.
A few more questions I had were left unanswered, she said anonymous authors were not to be trusted, wanted know what doctrine had been messed, where had it caused false teaching, and that your reasoning by false, guilt-by-distant-association she said. This was
Then Jackie told us that it was wickedness, and was becoming a time waster.
She came back the next day with this email she said was from Jacob Prasch
I emailed Jacob and showed him how this discussion progressed – or should I say regressed. Here’s the response I received:
Holly
Thank you very much for this comment.
It would appear we have opened a can o’ worms – nasty ugly worms
So Jackie Alnor is sitting in Jacob Prasch’s little pocket at well and possibly friends with Chuck Smith?
I love how Jacob Prasch himself tells tales and twists things and makes up stories as he goes along to blame us for things WE NEVER SAID just so that he can CAN IGNORE the THINGS WE ARE SAYING.
Incredible…
Jacob says
>>Either this fb woman can show the place where I supposedly called pre trib brethren heretics and false prophets or she is the slandering liar her words prove her to be.
>>One of us is lying. May the judgment of Christ fall speedily on the liar – it is either her or me. Let her show in this book or anyplace else where I ever once said such a terrible thing about our pre trib brethren.
You sad it Jacob, not me…
You call Pre-Tribulationists FALSE CHRISTS/FALSE PROPHETS and DECEIVERS OF THE ELECT this means you are calling us HERETICS = a dissenter from established religious teaching.
“Jesus Himself warned us of false Christs and false prophets in the Olivet Discourse, yet just as Preterists falsely teach it not longer applies to Christians because it has all (instead of partially) transpired in the events surrounding A.D. 70, Pre-Tribulationsists are left agreeing with them that it does not apply to us because we have already been raptured before the Antichrist and False Prophet become and issue.” —Shadows of the Beast, Jacob Prasch, [pg. 20]
“The rapture and resurrection cannot and shall not take place until the faithful believers can identify the ultimate two beasts of Revelation Chapter 13. The popular myth asserting the contrary as if it were an exegetical fact is a dangerous myth with must be debunked as a deception perpetrated against the Elect —Shadows of the Beast, Jacob Prasch, [pg. 21]
[Edited by DTW: 3/12/2012 – HERE IS A SCAN OF PAGES 20 and 21: JacobPrasch-ShadowsOfTheBeastQuotes-Pg20,pg21]
I have his book on kindle, and actually what you posted above was already on the thread, so he was lashing out about semantics, the word “heretic” vs. alluding to us as “false Christs and false prophets” that Jesus warned about.
So it was the “outrage” at the word heretic he never used…vs. acknowledging at all what he actually said. I couldn’t reconcile the pages on my Kindle because it has no page numbers, but I did find these statements and more in his book that are very troublesome.
You are right to call him a reviler, I knew I wasn’t a “slandering liar that Jacob said my words supposedly proved me to be”.
Again, I do pray he will humble himself if the Lord is willing, and remind him also that a servant of the Lord must not strive/quarrel (depending on his preference) and direct him to 2 Tim 2:23-26. Or back to listening to the gospel, or spending time with the Lord, his words are harsh, and unseemly, he has outbursts of wrath, he’s quick to speak words of anger. He didn’t like being reminded of sound speech that cannot be condemned so that your opponent might be ashamed… Instead, he continues to use unsound speech, and certainly not much grace.
After he wished Christ’s judgment on me, I did worry for him, and actually just prayed for the Lord’s mercy to him, and may the Lord soften his heart, and may he recognize his arrogant attitude and unkind speech, which is not tenderhearted, nor forgiving. He is not lowly and meek like Christ as we should strive for, and if feels someone is being dishonest or misrepresenting him, he only need to answer them with the right speech, love for other brethren, and without questioning everyone’s salvation who should happen to disagree with him.
If I was a Bible teacher (which I am not, only hypothetically) and someone considered me in the same camp at Pretorists I would take it that they were saying that I was a false teacher, especially if in the same sentence they referred to Jesus’ warning about false prophets.
Also, if that someone said that I was PERPETRATING
( to do or perform (something evil, criminal, or offensive); be guilty of; to commit (a blunder), impose (a hoax), etc.)
a DANGEROUS DECEPTIVE MYTH (which is a LIE) to believers I would certainly take it that I was being labeled a false teacher and a heretic EVEN IF I NEVER USED THE WORD.
What is so hard to understand about that? The words used which are a DIRECT QUOTE from Mr. Prasch’s book and mean exactly what has been said here. It is all a quibbling over the use of one word, as someone said, semantics.
It doesn’t matter that Mr. Prasch used benevolent words about those who teach pretrib as if they are best buds. You can’t have it both ways! If he truly believes pretrib is a DANGEROUS MYTH, he certainly has every right to state his convictions with no apologies or double speak.
No one has lied or slandered Mr. Prasch, but merely pointed out the inconsistency of his statements and gave an explanation of his words. That is what Bereans do. And in response Mr. Prasch consigns them to hell and calls them horrible names.
Mr. Prasch has every right to respond to the assertions, but in a civil and Christ-like manner. A servant of the Lord is to have a humble heart and be slow to anger. Civil discourse among Christians is beneficial as “iron sharpening iron”. A servant of the Lord cannot afford to have an ego because that is incompatible with the Holy Spirit.
I pray that somehow this can be reeled back in and that Mr. Prasch will realize that there are no enemies here, only truth seekers.
Certainly we all have our foibles, but we must determine to overcome the fleshly tendencies we all have.
When a person, whether they have stature or are nondescript, think they are above receiving correction that is dangerous ground.
Holly…have you by any chance looked into the Alnors? They are also part of the “corrupt tree” that is spewing out error; which can also be seen from Jackie’s comments, as she parrots Jacob Prasch. This “network” does not “think for themselves” as there is an agenda to be followed and promoted by them. Isn’t it interesting how all the “ministries” are talking about the very same subjects and “false teachers” at the same time? Hmmmmm…
Take a look:
http://www.seekgod.ca/alnors.htm
(use of any site is informational only and not an endorsement of any person, group, “ministry” or philosophy)
Psalm 119:165
King James Version (KJV)
165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Werner
Yip, I am not offended, but I am still human and it does stings a little. I have accepted that it comes with the job that I do.
It appears standing up for Jesus Christ instead of men is something not many people seem to understand. They say they love the Gospel and Jesus but they love men too at the same time. They won’t give up their ‘friends’ who are not speaking the whole truth and nothing but the truth for Jesus. They say, but my ‘friend’ helped bring me to the Lord and that is why I won’t argue with them, or he has been a great friend to me over the years and I believe him to be a Christian, but the Bible says different. It is ALL GOD’S WORK at the end of the day, the sewer and the one that watered the seeds are just ‘servants’ of Jesus Christ – NOTHING ELSE. IT IS ALL JESUS CHRIST’S DOING THAT THEY WERE SAVED. NOT MAN. As a Christian you are not to associate with people who preach another message to the Bible.
Here is a rhetorical question: how many times has Jacob called us liars?
He seems to be an authority on lies. If anybody had the time or inclination to study all the things that Jacob has said about us they would notice that he (himself) has in fact launched a tirade of lies about us by simply throwing out unsubstantiated statements about us. Also his replies on those things we question him on (especially re ecumenism) are contradictory. I will address both.
I will give some examples about the things he has accused me of, on this blog and on mine. None of them are true and none of them substantiated! You will not find these true on this blog nor on mine. I am sure Deborah, Redeemed, William Saunders etc etc can add to this.
— “This provedn liar John Chingford is the same slanderer who lied against Tony Pearce”.
— “John Chingford did misquote both Tony Pearce It seems to be his modus operandi”
— “John Chingford has in the pat lied against everyone from Bob Mitchell to Tony Pearce, so I suppose it just my turn.”
— “You have a perverse mind Mr. Chingford. Trying to link me with people I always warned of such as Lonnie Frisbee”
— “his efforts to link me via Chuck Smith to Lonnie Frisbee and Kathryn Kuhlman”
— “As with many of his sort of cessationist Calvinists”
— “John Chingford apologised for his attempts to associate me with Laussane”.
I never sought to associate you with Lausanne! I simply raised the question if you were still associated with Lausanne and why, because Moriel was still showing links to Lausanne on their site – I apologized because I later discovered that these links were OLD web pages which had (inadvertantly) not been removed. See how Jacob twists things. Twisting is a form of lying.
What about Jacob’s claim that he is not ecumenical and preaches against it. Unlike Jacob I will enclose firm hard evidence (at the bottom of this comment) that Jacob is contradictory regarding his claim to be non ecumenical. We already have shown evidence that Jacob counts amongst his ongoing friends (although he claims to disagree with them) Chuck Missler and Chuck Smith. So what about his association and endorsement of Doug Harris (of Reachout Trust) who chairs debates on the NOW ecumenical Revelation TV and Calvin Smith.
Doug Harris in 2011 made an amazing comment pro ecumenical statement in answer to this question:
So showing that Doug is ecumenical. Here is even more evidence by watching this video in early 2012, which has Doug Harris discussing ecumenism with Calvin Smith. Calvin Smith who writes on Moriel displays (on this video) that it is okay to share a platform with Catholics over a “common purpose”. He also stated that he admired the other “ecumenical” guest for the work she was doing. He made several other “ecumenical” satatements.
http://vimeo.com/41346367
Then on 1st December 2012 (yesterday) we have this article on Moriel’s website:
[Edited by DTW 3/12/2012 – Moriel Ministries after posting this comment sneaky sneaky went and removed the information to the above prayer request. But never fear, we made a snapshot. See here: Moriel-PrayerRequest-DougHarris-ReachoutTrustUK]
Of course we must pray for Doug and I do not wish to attack him at this time but pray for his healing AND revelation that ecumenism (in any shape) is wrong, but the point here is that Jacob is endorsing the ecumenist Doug Harris as an important apologetics ministry.
[Edited by DTW: 15/12/2012 – Moriel releases a prayer request and states that WE said we don’t want Moriel to pray for Doug Harris. Unbelievable. All we we doing was pointing out the ECUMENICAL TIES between Jacob Prasch and Doug Harris (in the prayer requests) – we even states above, “Of course we must pray for Doug and I do not wish to attack him at this time but pray for his healing AND revelation that ecumenism (in any shape) is wrong, but the point here is that Jacob is endorsing the ecumenist Doug Harris as an important apologetics ministry.“ But Jacob lies and states otherwise.
See snapshot: JacobPrash-DougHarris-Catholicties
So they do not agree with his views on Roman Catholicism, but view him as a Christian. Hmmmm.
Thank you John. Clearly and rationally stated FACTS as per your usual style.
If memory serve correctly, didn’t JP/Moriel withdraw from Revelation TV because they were carrying a word/faith teacher? And isn’t Doug Harris deeply involved with Revelation TV with his program which often features debates?
Obviously Doug Harris has no clue as to what constitutes the uncompromised Biblical Gospel! So how can he be a respected apologist? One should apologize for touting him in that way because it would lead others to believe his LIES. Now, there are true LIES!! If JP wants to speak about LIES, then there is fertile ground for one of his tirades. We SHOULD be outraged over ecumenical LIES like that, shouldn’t we?
If one has a TV program, one has to attract a wide audience in order to stay on the air. Therein lies the problem with huge Christian groups whether it be a mega church or a mega international ministry, or a “Christian” TV or radio network – one has to be careful upon whose toes one treads. The Apostle Paul was totally sold out to the Lord and He did not compromise one iota. The ONLY one he was accountable to was the Lord God Almighty. He was a true servant of the Lord and an example we all should follow. If the truth offends,the problem is with the hearer, not the messenger. Of course we are to speak the truth in love and guided by the Holy Spirit, but even then, the truth WILL offend.
Following On from my last comment.
Above I showed what Doug Harris (the one Jacob endorses) said on Revelation TV as recorded on this link http://www.thefreepressonline.co.uk/news/1/2297.htm
Actually, we don’t need to look at that link because it has been verified on Doug’s site “Reachout Trust” FROM THE HORSES OWN MOUTH:
Here is a link direct to Reachout Trust where Doug explains himself. Actually he seems to be digging an even bigger hole exposing his ecumenical/Roman leanings even more.
Please read from the part that has this heading “TRANSCRIPT OF BROADCAST”.
Sorry Doug but you miss the point. You suggest that if born again believers live in an area where the only church is a Catholic one that they should go to that church because THEY NEED FELLOWSHIP with christians – better to fellowship with Catholics than to not have any fellowship.
REALLY???? I would say that it would be better to have NO fellowship that to fellowship with darkness. Remind yourself 2 Corinthians 6: 14-18
“Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial. What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”
“Therefore come out from them and be separate,says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,and I will receive you.” “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”
You do not need to fellowship with Catholcs. If there is no other christian fellowship available, then God has promised that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth and you will experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit who will be your teacher.
Basically, your comments show that you are effectively working for Rome by encouraging believers to go into the temple of demons. You are falling into the same error as Billy Graham and many others.
Redeemed
>> didn’t JP/Moriel withdraw from Revelation TV because they were carrying a word/faith teacher?
From what I have read Revelation TV had a whole host of Word of Faith preachers on it’s line up, Jesse du Plantis was just one of them. ‘Simply the Truth’ is Doug Harris program on Revelation TV and will air again on 21st August 2012, so it’s still showing.
Revelation TV airs some of the following ministries: the 700 Club, John Hagee Ministries, It’s Supernatural with Sid Roth, Chuck Missler (Imagine that), The Alpha Course (This is ECUMENICAL), Joyce Meyer…
And Jacob Prasch continues to be friends with Doug Harris and calls him a brother.
Jacob Prasch doing a clean up?
Moriel Ministries after posting this comment below Moriel sneaky sneaky went and removed the information to the prayer request. But never fear, we made a snapshot. See here: Moriel-PrayerRequest-DougHarris-ReachoutTrustUK
Debs you got the date wrong (above), your post was for today and you said>> Then on 1st December 2012 (yesterday) etc.
Myfanwy
>> Debs you got the date wrong (above), your post was for today and you said>> Then on 1st December 2012 (yesterday) etc.
Nope…. I am quoting what John said…
Ooooo sorry…. I misunderstood!
Myfanwy
No problem.
Hi Debs,
I was was referring to Jacob…!! Good lesson for all of us anyhow!!
Werner
Um, Werner… so…
Are you saying that Jacob Prasch after insulting us left right and centre , “must continue to loved the gospel, and not be offended by us“? we who question him on some dubious teachings and practices and unsavory friendships with downright false teachers?
Noooo…I’m saying that if we/Jacob say that he/us love the Word, the Law, he will not insult other if corrected!! i.e. be offended!!
Werner
Oh pfewwww thank goodness 🙂 love you with lotsa hugs. Sorry I am having a ‘bad day today’ I have a nasty headache and I am just not on top of my game today.
Not your fault – I was just writing/commenting without thinking how others will interpret it!
God bless and get well soon!
Email from York
—————-
From: York C
Sent: 06 December 2012 05:15 PM
To: discerningtheworld
Subject: jacob
Hi Deborah, York here.
After reading those things that Jacob said, I am starting to wonder whether he can in fact be trusted. We cannot call other brothers in Christ these things.
Keep us the good work.
Cheers
————-
York
I dunno why you email me instead of comment. I do state that I will post emails, so it’s better you just comment. You have insulted me so much in your comments that quite frankly I do not care what you think.
[delete]
Reading about Jacob Prasch and the comments and the stir and his consequent attention he has got on this blog…whether negative or dare I say even minutely positive, is what he wants…negative publicity is what he wants…that’s how newspapers in the world sell.
I cannot judge Jacob in this way but where it is clear and very obvious Jacob is full of arrogance and pride and needs to REPENT and change his attitude. He is just a sinful human-being like we all are and needs exactly the same realisation to humble himself. We must pray for Jacob…that he is convicted of this sin. Jacob forget about disgrace…we are all in the same boat but we can never be free until we are honest before God who knows all things in the heart.
The best thing is to ignore Jacob…this is something he does not want…pray for him and leave the rest up to God.He has already been exposed.
@ Michael:
With all due respect,if you saw all the pastors who promote Mr. Prasch’s teachings to their flocks and all the Christian leaders who promote him and all those who blindly follow him and those who are intimidated by him I think you would see it differently.
The Bible says we are to defend the faith and expose false teaching. Obviously DTW and LDW have hit a nerve. Perhaps enough has been done, but that remains to be seen. A passive approach is not the example set for us by the Apostle Paul.
There is nothing passive in the way approached this issue. The man is rude, vulgar, obscene and very unlikeable and has the audacity to pose as a representative of Christ. Even so this is a natural reaction and I certainly do not follow Paul…Christ is my only mentor. It appears to me that this man has many demons and torments and auguments will not bring him to repentance…there is only one who can. He is the One who said pray for them that despicably use you. There is a time and a season unto everything. You cannot reason with inflamed arrogance and pride. God must deal with him…that is if he is bonafide in his seeking of biblical truth.
Michael
>> God must deal with him…that is if he is bonafide in his seeking of biblical truth.
I pray for Jacob Prasch, that God softens his heart and his mind. I pray that Jacob one day soon starts seeking the truth and the Holy Spirit opens his eyes, instead of walling on in false teaching. I pray that Jacob Prasch could be a great God fearing man, instead of a money making machine. I pray that Jacob Prasch SEVERS all his ties with evil people (false teachers) to peruse truth and nothing but the gospel truth because he has a genuine LOVE for Jesus Christ. I pray all this in Jesus Christ’s PRECIOUS name. Amen.
Michael, I used the term “passive” because to IGNORE the false teaching of Jacob Prasch means to let it go, does it not?
The Bible instructs us to EXPOSE false teaching, to take action, to mark them and alert others.
Believe it or not, DTW and LDW are not only obeying the Lord, but they are also doing the most LOVING thing for the precious flock of God and yes, even to Jacob Prasch himself. It is not good for him to continue to mislead people. The silence of ignoring only provides an opportunity for the false teacher to amass to themselves a large following who will be blindly loyal. The truth taught covers for the error and most people will miss it unless it it pointed out.
As for following the Apostle Paul, he was a faithful servant of the Lord Jesus and the words he wrote were inspired by the Holy Spirit. So by following his example, aren’t we are in essence following the Lord Jesus Christ? I don’t understand your distinction here.
The fact that you refer to Mr Prasch as a *money making machine* just shows how little you actually know the man.
For all his faults (which in my direct experience he openly acknowledges when he preaches, (which you would also know if you had ever spent time with him), and which I do not condone), to accuse him of being in it for the money is preposterous, there was never a man who was less interested in financial reward than him.
You should, I submit respectfully, withdraw that statement, it is desperately untrue and unfair.
ST
If you sell the gospel of Jesus Christ (books, DVDS, cds, conferences, etc) and you are making a profit then you are making money. I don’t care how much you are making, (he clearly makes enough to travel the world), never the less, the fact is you are profiting of selling the Gospel.
How funny I must retract that I said he is a money making machine, but there are about +/-50 terrible names that are not true, that he has called me, that I would like him to retract. You guys really DO make me laugh out loud.
ST, you may be right that Mr. Prasch is not motivated by $$$. However, it takes a lot of moolah to keep a large international organization in operation. You may not understand how most large Christian organizations work. Laws vary from country to country and even from region to region, but in some fashion the organization functions as a non-profit organization so that donations can be received and used to fund the work of the group. Usually key members are given a salary and their expenses such as travel, etc. are covered in addition. Of course each organization has their own policies. There is certainly nothing wrong with this.
My point is that in some form revenue from Mr. Prasch’s books and other materials goes into the coffers of the organization. A reasonable assumption would be that he is a major source of revenue because he is the “name” behind the organization and the main figure of Moriel.
Again, you may certainly be right – Mr. Prasch may be not concerned with making $$$ to fill his personal wallet. He may have a very frugal lifestyle. I don’t know him and have no way of knowing anything about him personally. But I do see from his comments a man that appears to be puffed up with pride and pride is a powerful motivator, even moreso than money.
So if you are going to single out this one comment, I think you are grasping at straws and even setting up a strawman.
I have no idea how Moriel works as an organisation, neither do you, and that is the point, we do not know, therefore to infer that Jacob Prasch is making a lot of money and personally profiting from the sale of the Gospel is wrong, and potentially inaccurate, and as Christians, who, with respect, are portraying themselves as being more Christ like than Mr Prasch you should not be saying that without hard facts to back it up.
This is not a strawman, it is a fact.
Perhaps any profits made from the sale of cd’s/books etc go towards Moriels charitable works, who knows? Perhaps Mr Prasch funds his world travel from his own pocket or from freewill offerings ?
If that is the case then your comment is extremely wrong, is it not?
The truth is that I don’t know, and neither do you, therefore we should not be infering that we do in order to influence the opinion of other people towards him, that is not the path of righteousness.
As to the names Mr Prasch called you, I do not for a moment agree with his speech to you (if you reread my post I said I do not condone his faults) and yes, I believe he should retract, but please remember that that works both ways, and you should be prepared to retract also where you have erred, otherwise how can you call him to a higher path when you are unwilling to walk it yourself?
I am quite sure that both you and Mr Prasch have a whole bunch of unChristlike corners that the Lord is working on daily as He fashions you both into His image, perhaps Mr Praschs corners are far more visible than yours, and in this case have been dramatically exposed, but whatever the case both you and Mr Prasch stand by grace and mercy alone and we would all, myself included, be wise to remember that.
ST
1) I don’t make any money selling the gospel. I rely solely on God providing for me so that I can pay out of my own pocket the running costs of this website.
2) I use this website to preach the gospel across the world – it’s for free.
3) Everything I say I say on this website – I am open and transparent. If I make a mistake and it’s a genuine error on my part I am quick to apologise and change the teaching and fix the problem. I am humble. I apologise when it’s needed, I feel sorry for others and I get upset with myself when I make mistakes because of the consequences.
But you know what ST, for you I will retract that little statement. He is not a ‘money making machine‘
however he sells the gospel to make money.I retract this statement as well – Jesus however knows exactly what is going on.Hi ST
If you read ALL the comments you would see that we HAVE retracted or apologised once we were proved wrong. This is the difference between a person of God and one who is not. A humble person has NO PROBLEM apologising in humilty and brokkenness if they are shown to be wrong. Those like Jacob, are far too proud to apologise.
NEXT POINT: This is a vitally important distinction!!! YES we all have our faults but not all of us are BIG Christian leaders who MUST behave like leaders otherwise they SHOULD be removed from leadership and learn humility OUT OF THE LIMELIGHT.
This is exactly what Paul told Timothy and Titus i.e that leaders CANNOT be leaders unless they show certain characteristics earning them the right to look after God’s people.
Deborah,
he has a ministry, he sells materials assosciated with that ministry, but you have yet to establish factually that the profit from those sales goes into his pocket to keep him and his family – it may be that it goes to fund Moriels charitable organisations around the world – you and I do not know.
Therefore, if any profit from those sales does not contribute to a wage for him then he does not personally make any money from selling the Gospel, any money made goes to fund christian endeavours, and he supports himself and his family in other ways.
A crucial but pivotal difference, therefore until you know for sure, you should not potentially falsely accuse him of profiteering from Jesus, not for me, and not even for Jacob, but because you do love the Lord, and I believe you do, incidentally.
ST
>> A crucial but pivotal difference, therefore until you know for sure,
We will never know…
But Jesus knows…
We will leave it there…
Please see Comment #36.
St, I feel the need to reply to your statements.
Your saying none of us have any idea how Christian organizations are run is so incorrect. All Christian organizations who take in donations or sell materials have to be accountable to govermental authorities. And usually it is a matter of public record. And I want to know how monies are spent and if the organization is demonstrating good stewardship before I give to their cause. That is only good stewardship on my part.
You can’t be so naive to believe that they just go out to their back yard and pick $$ off the trees to pay the expenses of running a large international organization. Surely not all those who are working with Moriel are tentmakers and surely Mr. Prasch is not employed elsewhere. AT no time did I insinuate that there was anything about Moriel’s finances that was improper or that Mr. Prasch had any personal gain. You chose to ignore that and also that I brought out that pride is a bigger motive than money to many people.
You set up a strawman to take away from all the other issues. You toss us a bone to say you don’t approve of all the names Mr. Prasch has called Deborah and John and others who have commented here and then come back give him a pass by saying all of us are not perfect either. I think the blogsters would be the FIRST to say they fall short, but they have not resorted to calling anyone who differs with them the horrid, lurid, disgusting names as Mr. Prasch did.
No one dare question Mr. Prasch and his writings and expect to escape his wrath. Apparently you are amongst this company as the issues that were raised obviously don’t concern you. I find that curiously sad.
Moriel releases a prayer request and states that WE said we don’t want Moriel to pray for Doug Harris. Unbelievable. All we we doing was pointing out the ECUMENICAL TIES between Jacob Prasch and Doug Harris (in the prayer request) – we even stated here 2012/12/02 at 12:06 pm, “Of course we must pray for Doug and I do not wish to attack him at this time but pray for his healing AND revelation that ecumenism (in any shape) is wrong, but the point here is that Jacob is endorsing the ecumenist Doug Harris as an important apologetics ministry.” But Jacob lies and states otherwise.
See snapshot: JacobPrash-DougHarris-Catholicties
So they do not agree with his views on Roman Catholicism, but view him as a Christian. Hmmmm.
They call Deborah and John and those who agree with them LIARS?
They LIE when they say they were called out for praying for Doug Harris.
That is a LIE as Deborah clearly DOCUMENTS above.
We are the “lunatic fringe” and “ultra-fundamentalist” ? What in the world is an “ultra-fundamentalist”? Actually that is a COMPLIMENT!
They say “this is not a time for contempt but for compassion”. They think calling out false doctrine from the pit of hell is “contempt”? Only a deceived mind would say this!
Doug Harris may be an expert in certain cults, but ROMAN CATHOLICISM IS THE LARGEST CULT THERE IS – taking more people to hell than Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses and all others COMBINED!!!!
And if Moriel is going to give Doug Harris a pass when he fraternizes with false teachers (Moriel withdrew from Revelation TV because of this) and is ecumenical, then he should pray for RICK WARREN who JP blasts as a false teacher who was recently hospitalized!!! He blasts Warren for being an ecumenist and yet gives Doug Harris a pass.
Certainly one should not disparage Mr. Harris when he is suffering from a serious illness, but why make a point of posting a prayer request on the website? Pray for him in your prayer closet. And a proper prayer for him would of course that he will overcome the illness but that God would USE this illness to GET HIS ATTENTION to the error he is promoting!
That is NOT comtempt!
JP has revealed himself to be a double-minded man whose desire to maintain relationships trumps standing for truth.
Debs,
Dust your feet and move on. Your work is done.
I’ve learnt in a short period of time that:
1. It’s not worth getting into a dispute with others, usually the conflict only goes around in circles. Man likes the sound of his own voice and hates to listen. Man also does not want to be proven wrong because man is too proud. This is where name calling, mud slinging and cursing start.
2. Don’t even try to defend yourself infront of other men, they will only hear what they want in any case so you are waisting precious time, energy and your breath. Let them speak what they want, your fruit will be your witness.
3. If I see conflict coming my way, I say “thank you for hearing me” politely, turn and go. The seed has been planted, now it is up to the one that heard.
4. I respect that everybody has a free will to make choices in life. We can not always stick the pointy finger in their faces when we believe that they made the incorrect choice. We may however warn them and present our Biblical or practical evidence. We can not prevent people from associating with the onces that we believe are not “kosher”, however we may warn them because we care for them. What they do with that information is up to them.
Dust your feet Debs, you have presented the Biblical facts, dust your feet and move on. Let God work His miracles.
@ Marion:
Hi, I have looked at that site before, not so much on the Alnors, I have been noticing the manner of dealing with false teachers falling into a lack of sound speech that cannot be condemned. Jackie says she does not “do midrash” so I asked her if she then understood that she didn’t know anything other than salvific issues according to Jacob. Thanks for the link, I’ll take a look.
@ Micheline: Just a mention regarding it’s not a dispute, it’s contending for the faith. The end result is up to God, but the name calling, and mud slinging and cursing starts because darkness does no like the light.
Deborah isn’t wasting any time, she is just doing what is just called to do, we don’t all have the same gift. She has to deal with “conflict” as she believes the Word shows her and the Lord is leading her.
One thing I want to address, is how you framed a couple comments; “We can not always stick the pointy finger in their faces when we believe that they made the incorrect choice.”
Or this: “We can not prevent people from associating with the onces that we believe are not “kosher”, however we may warn them because we care for them. What they do with that information is up to them.”
I see no pointy fingers being stuck in their faces here, nor is it about whether we believe they are “kosher”. It is about naming names so we can avoid, contending for the faith, exposing the unfruitful deeds of darkness to the light, marking and avoiding, and nothing else. It’s not flesh and blood. We do these things, the result is the Lords.
One of the things that really irks today is the way men treat women today and behave badly towards them. It is bad enough in the world but one does not expect it from men that call themselves Christians…very UNMANLY and WIMPY behaviour. I was brought up to show respect to all people especially the fairer sex. Such unmanly behaviour…sure you can disagree but bad words are totally unacceptable. My late mother always drummed it in to my brother and myself…manners maketh a man. You can see this in the Saviour Himself…the way He treated women.
The way Jacob bad-mouthed Deborah is utterly disgusting. I hope he is man enough to apologise.
Holly G
>> I see no pointy fingers being stuck in their faces here, nor is it about whether we believe they are “kosher”. It is about naming names so we can avoid, contending for the faith, exposing the unfruitful deeds of darkness to the light, marking and avoiding, and nothing else. It’s not flesh and blood. We do these things, the result is the Lords.
Thanks Holly I agree.
Michael
>> I hope he is man enough to apologise.
We can only pray…
@ Holly G.:
Oi, maybe my writing skills need some attention.
I was defending Debs.
The points I listed are the things I use to deal with difficult situations.
But don’t mind me, I’m still learning, and don’t worry about how I “frame” my comments, I really didn’t mean any harm or friction. Maybe I should just read from now on and refrain from posting.
Thank you for your comment and concern.
I guess JP is an equal opportunity railer. 😉
Micheline, please do not be offended and please do not stop commenting on here. Two years ago I started on a journey which has led me to the realtruth of the Bible, but I am still learning every day. As long as we stay humble and willing to learn, God will enlighten you through His Holy Spirit.
What you need to understand is that the whole reason that Debs has this blog, is because she is a watchman on the wall. This can be a very difficult job Micheline, Debs (as you have seen) is often attacked and threatened for exposing false teaching and false teachers. This is not a job for someone with a weak heart (spiritual) and Debs is absolutely passionate about doing what she does for Jesus.
I would agree that there are times when we can waste time ‘casting pearl before swine’, but that is more on a one to one basis with someone who will not listen to the truth. What Debs does here is something completely different, and it is her calling. In fact a watchman’s job is not only very difficult, but it carries much responsibility to the Lord, it is a very serious thing.
The following is a good link for you to read
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent48.htm
Ezekial 33
1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.
7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
@ Truthful Conversation:
Thank you so much for the beautiful explaination. You have taught me something today.
I think I was harping on about ‘casting pearl before swine’ as you mentioned and therefore my ‘dust your feet and move on’.
Thank you once again for your kind words.
Blessings to you.
Micheline,
The Lord uses whom He will to teach us what He wills us to learn. You seem to be open to learning truth from God, I sense you have a gentle and humble spirit. I wrote to you what I felt the Holy Spirit led me to write, and it gives me great joy that you have been accepting and grateful. May our Lord continue to keep you in His peace, and may He guide you into all His truth and knowledge. God bless you sister.
@ Marion:
The updated day says 2000, are you that ignorant, or do you just like to cast stones just to cast stones?
Leigh
>> The updated day says 2000, are you that ignorant, or do you just like to cast stones just to cast stones?
Did you get your lesson on name calling from Jacob Prasch?
[delete]
I don’t think it likely that Jacob Prasch will apologize. For his sake I wish he would. But no-one attacks that vehemently unless he is 100% convinced he is right. That means if there is any apologizing to be done, he’d consider it ought to be from the side of his detractors.
That’s not jumping to conclusions about him. It’s merely being logical.
As Christians, the Bible ought to be continually correcting us. We cannot go to it thinking we can pick and choose what it says where and when it suits us. People who think they can, like ecumenists, reckon they are right and those who see the Bible in black-and-white (where it is so) are bigots, ignoramuses and intolerant. That’s why they feel justified in railing at others. It’s why they see their arrogance as humility–just as political liberals do.
You will find that ecumenists, also like political liberals, are very tolerant but only with those agree with them. Otherwise they are blatantly intolerant.
The really scary thing is, they can’t see it. So how can they repent of it?
Satan cannot repent because he is totally convinced that he is right and God is wrong.
C.S. Lewis was definitely right on the point where he maintained that when relgious men consider themselves to be humble they are at their most proud. There’s much with which I disagree in his writings but he was right when he had that view of the high churchmen and ecumenists.
We are to love our neighbours as ourselves. Jacob Prasch clearly does not. I know he would mind very much if someone railed at him, which shows he is not judging others by the same yardstick by which he would like to be judged.
How do I know that? I know through his vehement attacks on those who merely disagree with him! So I can only begin to imagine would he be like, then, if someone vehemently attacked him.
It’s not only the Loyolas, Calvins, Hitlers, Stalins, Arafats and suicide bombers who have gone to their deaths unrepentant and blindly convinced of their stances. So have many of the advocates of liberalism and ecumenism.
Therefore, I no more expect Jimmy Carter or the last Archbishop of Canterbury to repent any more than I do the above tyrants. Carter and Williams are as convinced of their stances as those despots. It would be wonderful if I am proven wrong. But when I think of what Jesus said of those who did many wonderful things, and cast out demons in His Name, I really don’t think I will be.
As I can’t see any diffence in attitude of those I’ve mentioned above to that of JP, I think if we expect him to apologize, we will be in for a long wait.
http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/the-rapture-holy-spirit-and-restrainer_25.html#comments
Read the latest rant and put down by Jacob Prasch to a very godly woman who has dared to question Prasch’s made up convoluted doctrine about the Restrainer. Prasch changes the goalposts to suit himself and heaps on the insults. Prasch has always previously corrected those who say the tribulation is 7 years but now suddenly it suits him to say it is a 7 year general tribulation. Complete hypocrite.
Dear o’sullivan
As much as I do not agree with the above websites doctrine, I totally disagree with the way Prash has treated Treena. But it’s normal and she must get used to it if she wants to continue questioning Jacob Prasch. See here: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2016/06/11/pre-trib-suppressing-truth-unrighteousness/
I can’t tell, is this place Christian???
Dear toria
I can’t tell, are you a Christian?
Hi Deborah,
An email from Jacob Prasch was recently released from 2016 wherein he talks about you and says the following:
“While I did not sue, we did have a retired Christian South African Police Captain who now leads a Moriel affiliated church try to send the Police to her door under a South African law that makes certain kinds of libel not only a civil, but a criminal offense, but police corruption in that country made it too difficult and we will not pay bribes.”
The full, lengthy attack email can be seen in the comments section of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMpZZ1r8JKU
In the August 2016 email Prasch says he ignored you, but then in January 2017 he made an attack video called ‘JACOB THE RAILER?’ about it all here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v26uUsuR6qU
The “retired Christian South African Police Captain who now leads a Moriel affiliated church” Prasch speaks of in the email is most likely Mike Benade who became a Moriel admin in South Africa last year. Benade was also exposed as being one of the 3 Moriel admins/associates involved in creating a fake police document ‘clearing’ Prasch of spiritual abuse in April 2019:
https://www.moriel.org/latest/latest-news/professional-assessment-of-moriel-jacob-prasch-by-senior-police-investigators.html
I exposed the conflict of interest of the ‘Moriel Police Squad’ in Spring:
https://vimeo.com/333728393
Hi tbckawaii :hi:
Thanks for this info. :thumbsup: People will read this, that is for sure.
Just want you to know that I am often being confused with Debora Menelaus, so sometimes my info on DTW is being mixed up her her.
That email from Jacob Prasch under first video you mentioned is hysterical, I really did laugh. I made a snapshot of the screen with his email. I left a message underneath saying “We’ve forgiven Jacob Prasch twice now, we’ll continue to forgive him.”
Jacob Prasch says in snapshot above: “While I did not sue, we did have a retired Christian South African Police Captain who now leads a Moriel affiliated church try to send the Police to her door under a South African law that makes certain kinds of libel not only a civil, but a criminal offense, but police corruption in that country made it too difficult and we will not pay bribes.” [Emphasis added]
Oh my word, what a load of nonsense. If he however did try, it would be that he could not get the NON retired police to entertain his unbiblical ideas to try shake me down.
You said “The “retired Christian South African Police Captain who now leads a Moriel affiliated church” Prasch speaks of in the email is most likely Mike Benade who became a Moriel admin in South Africa last year. Benade was also exposed as being one of the 3 Moriel admins/associates involved in creating a fake police document ‘clearing’ Prasch of spiritual abuse in April 2019:”
Wow! :shocked:
Talk about POLICE CORRUPTION = a Jacob Prasch (Moriel Ministries) Police Squad!
The more he carries on, the more people will see through him.
Blessings Deborah, I was searching for a comment as I have been working on a video on Jacob and I had remember a comment on your site from a woman who said something to the effect that she and her husband had enjoyed Jacob’s teachings before but after seeing the violence of his comments Jacob had “lost a listener”. Do you remember where this comment is located?
Hi F.R.
Oh my goodness, I do remember something like that. But where oh where is this comment. I will search all Jacob Prasch articles for you. Give me till next week please, I’m going to be out of town for the rest of this week and be be partially online but mostly offline.
You can also do a comment search under each article. At the bottom of the comment box there is another box that says “Comment search”. Of course it does help to know what you are searching for and under which article.
I think the comment is under the list of articles I mention above in this article or even this article. At the bottom of the comments you can see previous comments by clicking previous comment pages. I had to break the comments section into pages – our site was being slowed down tremendously by the number of comments we had per page.
[DELETED by DTW – Your comment is absolute nonsense, and I wont tolerate you speaking to me that way, you might think it’s ok to speak to women like utter rubbish but I can tell you now JESUS CHRIST DOES NOT THINK SO Patrick. You can read ALL articles on this site regarding your ‘cult hero’ Jacob Prasch. Everything that I said, or Tom said is on here out in the open for all to see – and that includes everything Jacob Prasch said to me.]
Hey Deborah, this crazy Metatron teaching is back up and running – this time it’s false teachers exposing false teachers and babes in Christ will be tossed to and fro 🥺 https://understandthetimes.net/2020/07/22/jacob-prasch-offers-metatron-altar-call-salvation-from-the-metatron/
Hi UTT, Thanks for your comment. This is what dabbling in die Kabbalistic Metatron eventually leads to – NECROMANCY.
https://www.getunderlined.com/writings/messages-from-metatron-a-course-in-self-transformation-by-devi-nina-bingham-3/
Jacob Prasch exposed, he is NOT Jewish.
Entire thing made up.
Documented proof.
In other words –
Jacob Prasch is a complete 100% liar which PROVES he is NOT Born Again.
BINGO!!! We all knew it was true in the back of our minds. Finally!!!
https://youtu.be/EY9yYCrbFPE
William, the truly mad thing about Jacob Prasch is that for years he was calculating enough to not explicitly state he was Jewish but used language to conjure the notion in the audience, however Chris Rosebrough’s exposé in summer 2020 caused Prasch to state for the first time explicitly that he IS half-Jewish, doing so on camera in HD with various documents. It was the biggest mistake of his life as it resulted in all the documents being outed as forged/faked. The faking of his DNA report was complete madness https://powerplaypause.blog/2020/08/05/les-imbeciles-their-ascent-to-peak-stupid-exposing-jacob-praschs-fake-dna-paperwork/
But the truly astonishing thing is his ardent disciples either don’t care, or they believe the exposés are LIES. It is intensely cultic behaviour.
I agree with you that Prasch cannot be born again. The fact that he is persisting in his lies and is attacking/slandering Chris Rosebrough as he did with folk on here several years ago only reinforces how he’s a rank pagan.