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NAR Invasion of SA – Rick Joyner, Angus Buchan, Danie Slabbert, Nevil Norden @ Apostolic Prophetic Conference – July 2012

Angus Buchan - Rick JoynerI knew it would happen and I waited patiently for this day, the day that Rick Joyner (Apostle in the New Apostolic Reformation NAR) teamed up with Angus Buchan at a conference.  This is not a new union, oh no no.  Rick Joyner and other Apostles and Prophets from the USA have had their finger in the South African ‘Reformation’ since as early as 2004, probably even earlier. In 2010 Prophetess Cindy Jacobs was invited to speak at the Global Day of Prayer organised by Graham Power a friend of Angus Buchan.

In 2008 I wrote an article on Angus Buchan called The Dominionist Faith of Angus Buchan – Faith Like Potatoes and in it I noted the following:

“There is great prophetic interest in South Africa and its southern coastline from international circles. The major reason for this is because of the many prophecies that have gone out about the latter rain move of God that is to erupt from South Africa and spread into the nations.” [Emphasis added]  Taken from here (<–this website has been since been removed)

The well-known prophet, Rick Joyner, visited Cape Town, South Africa in July 2004, and during a powerful prophetic conference on 22 July 2004, said that…

“God is about to reveal powerful hidden ministries that are centered along the southern coastline of South Africa.” [Emphasis added]

Angus’ ministry fits their prophecy perfectly, his ministry is centered along the southern coastline of South Africa.  Angus Buchan was the perfect man to get the job done; it would take a special kind of person to get through to South Africans and spread the Apostolic and Prophetic message under cover.  Angus Buchan has been working with the NAR in the USA to push this unGodly gospel (that sounds so Christian but is not) since as early as 2004.

But who is Rick Joyner?

Rick Joyner runs Morningstar Ministries and is a Knight of Malta Templar (Roman Catholic Freemasonary Order) who is an Apostle and/or Prophet in C. Peter Wagners New Apostolic Reformation (Kingdom Now/Dominion theology:  Dominionists believe that God lost the title-deed to earth in the garden of Eden to Satan, and the church must rise up, take it back, and put the enemies of God under their feet at all costs. They believe they can do this by conquering the Seven Mountains of influence.  They believe that until they conquer this earth, Jesus cannot come back. The doctrine is also called Latter Rain or New Order of the Latter Rain and they believe in the Manifest Sons of God teaching which is; they believe they can obtain immortality by incarnating Jesus Christ before He returns – this is a doctrine that Angus Buchan promotes vigorously. (See lower down as well for explanation of MSoG teaching)

Rick Joyner is considered by many to be one of the most unsound and dangerous teachers around.  He has no qualms about denying the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, he says;

“There is a tendency to continue relating to Him as ‘the MAN from Galilee.’ Jesus is not a man. He was and is Spirit. He took the form of a servant and became a man for a brief time.” The Higher Life of Rick Joyner  pg. 72

Joyner couldn’t be clearer in his declaration: “Jesus is not a man. He was and is Spirit”.

However the bible says in, 1 Timothy 2:5, “There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Rick Joyner was instrumental helping Todd Bentley rise to unbiblical proportions back in 2008 during the Lakeland Outpouring where millions of people received demonic impartations through the calling down of fire, violent worship sessions, kicking and punching audience members, the worship of angels, blasphemous baptisms, getting drunk on liquor each night after ‘church’ closed, not ONE genuine healing recorded, and an expose exposing the entire money making racket by national TV (ABC Nightline).

After Todd Bentley unprecedented fall from grace, after divorcing his wife for a female staff member, Rick Joyner took Todd Bentley ‘under his wing for restoration’.  Todd Bentley and Rick Joyner are currently still working together.  During the Lakeland Revival Todd Bentley spoke a false prophesy given to him by Wendy Alec (Owner of God TV) that Jesus Christ would personally show up and set foot on his stage on the 8th June 2008.  This of course never happened.  [See video near end of article.]

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The False Teachings of Rick Joyner

By Joseph R. Chambers, D.D., 1999

The doctrines of Biblical truth have always been the love and joy of godly men and women.  When the soul of man is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, it is a regeneration unto righteousness or rightness to God and His will.  The joy of such individuals is to discover truth and with great delight live that truth.  The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit by which the believer is pruned and prepared unto righteousness.  Righteousness is our willing surrender to right conduct according to the Word and will of God.  Holiness is His work of imputation and impartation.  We act in obedience toward righteousness, but He makes us holy by the divine work of redemption.

Biblical truth and doctrine are absolutely imperative for true righteousness and holiness.  It is impossible to bring a clean thing out of an unclean thing.  The root and foundation must first be purified and established.  If the doctrines are not pure, then the fruit cannot be pure.  “For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.” (Romans 11:16, KJV).

The Holy Spirit in Proverbs said, “The wicked desireth the net of evil men: but the root of the righteous yieldeth fruit.” (Proverbs 12:12, KJV).  Again, He said, “A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved.” (Proverbs 12:3, KJV).  The Book of Job gives an eternal principle. “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.” (Job 14:4, KJV).

The impure doctrines of our present church systems have muddied the waters of religion until it hardly favors the Holy Bible and the true church.  Revival is impossible until we return to “the love of the truth.” (II Thessalonians 2:10).  The love of the truth is the saving power of God.

Babble, Random Talk and Saying Nothing

The Apostle Paul gave Timothy a charge that applies to all ministers of the word.  Notice the carefulness he charged to us who would be teachers, “As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.  Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.” (I Timothy 1:3-11, KJV).

This is the foundation we must build if the true church is to be in our midst. Fables and endless genealogies are “human rational and old unbiblical traditions.” The faith unfeigned is “pure doctrines and fundamental Biblical truth” that represents our very foundation.  Notice that he said, “From which some having swerved have turned aside unto “vain jangling.” Vain jangling is an excellent description of self-appointed teachers that babble, talk at random and actually say nothing of real value.

I Believe Rick Joyner Fits This Mold

The first time I picked up material written by Rick Joyner I immediately sensed the spirit of darkness and deception.  Reading his material is similar to reading New Age materials.  His approach is to take anything in Scripture and make it mean anything that suits his theological aims.  There is no faithfulness to established facts of interpretation.  It’s a smorgasbord of ideas loosely connected with the generous use of out-of-text Scripture to prove his point.  Look at his basic premise for the book, There Were Two Trees In The Garden.  His identification of the forbidden tree lays a false foundation for the entire book.

“The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a powerful Biblical model of the Law.  As the Apostle Paul declared “The power of sin is the law” (I Corinthians 15:56).  This is because it is through the Law that we must derive our knowledge of good and evil.  We may wonder how this knowledge brings death until we see the fruit.  The knowledge of good and evil kills us by distracting us from the One who is the source of life; the Tree of Life – Jesus. The Tree of Knowledge causes us to focus our attention upon ourselves.  Sin is empowered by the law; not just because the evil is revealed but the good as well. It drives us either to corruption or self-righteousness, both of which lead to death.” (There Were Two Trees In The Garden, Rick Joyner, pp. 9-10.)

To suggest that this forbidden tree was the Laws of God as given to Moses or any other Bible writer is blasphemous.  The “Ten Commandments” are the foundational truths and principles of all of God’s revelation.  This attack on “God’s Laws” shows the direction of major deception in religious circles.  Satan cannot present himself as God or present his Antichrist as the “Christ” without first separating Divine revelation or the Holy Truth from experiences in the religious realm.  Throughout Joyner’s writing there is an attack on individuals that call for doctrinal purity.

Please note this statement by Joyner, “The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a powerful Biblical model of the Law.” (Ibid, p.10.) There is absolutely no fact in this statement.  Only the devil and his evil spirits would dare say such a thing.  The eating from “the Tree of Knowledge” was not receiving the law or living by the law, it was disobedience against God’s law.  It was rejection of the plain commandment of God for a life of one’s own experience and control.

The Opposite Of Truth, Satan’s Lie

As all New Agers teach this reflect the opposite of truth.  Satan is the master imitator.  Instead of judging human experiences by the Word of God, this false idea suggests that we judge the Word of God by human experiences.  When we base interpretation of truth on our experiences we totally lose the basis of truth.  Man is taught throughout Scripture to never trust himself. Yes, this is the opposite of the psychological base of humanistic teaching, but God’s Word has always stood opposite the ideas of flesh and human rationale.

The Psalmist said, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereofare the ways of death.  ” (Proverbs 14:12, KJV).  Apostle Paul said, “For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.” (Philippians 3:3, KJV).  A man never reaches the spiritual height this side of our future glorification that he dare leave the constant dependency of Holy Scripture.  We must weigh every experience by the clear truth of God’s book.

Read again what Joyner said about the law of God being the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then read the following truths:

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-20, KJV).

“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” (Romans 7:12, KJV).

“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24, KJV).

“I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.” (Psalm 119:113, KJV).

Did Jesus come to fulfill the “tree of knowledge of good and evil” as Joyner has suggested.  Is Joyner calling the tree of knowledge holy, for that is what Paul the apostle called the laws of God?  Is he calling it “our schoolmaster” as Apostle Paul spoke to the Galatians?  David, a man after God’s own heart, spoke of God’s law and said he loved them.  Was David loving “the tree of knowledge” that has brought utter destruction of the human family.  We know the answer if we love the truth, but New Agers such as Rick Joyner do not know of what they speak.

The Antichrist Who Shall Appear

Mr. Joyner cleverly explains away the coming Antichrist.  He is no longer the man of sin that the Scripture reveals to come, but is some kind of religious fundamentalist.  We certainly do not need to look very deep to identify the source of this idea.  Satan loves it.

Mr Joyner says, “‘Here is wisdom.  Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six’ (Revelation 13:18).  The number 666 is not taken arbitrarily.  Because man was created on the sixth day, the number six is often used symbolically in the Scriptures as the number of man. This number is further identification of the spirit of the beast, which is the spirit of fallen man.  In verse 11, we see that this beast “comes up out of the earth.” This beast is the result of the seed of Cain having been a “tiller of the ground” or earthly-minded.  The beast is the embodiment of religion that originates in the mind of man.  It comes up out of the earth in contrast to Christ who comes down out of heaven.” (Ibid, pp. 17-18.)

Jesus made it absolutely clear that the Antichrist is a man that will establish his powers in the world and set up his image called “The Abomination of Desolation” in Jerusalem. (Matthew 24:15).  Mr. Joyner says this Antichrist is rather a relgious spirit that completes or as he states, “is the mature fruit of the tree of knowledge.” Again, we have a complete confusion of the truth.  If the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the laws of God, then the mature fruit are fundamental Bible-believing Christians that obey the Word of God.  It appears that the Bible-believers are Mr. Joyner’s Antichrist.

Deciphering what Rick Joyner teaches is no easy task as is true with all New Age books.  In the chapter where he deals with the Antichrist he also deals with his so-called born again experience.  This born again experience appears to take man beyond living by the laws of God to an esoteric level of initiation.  It is clear to me that Mr. Joyner is actually teaching the “New Paradigm” or “New World View” that prepares men for the “New World Religion” of the false prophet and Antichrist.

Look now at this entire paragraph where he calls the “man of sin” the mature fruit of the “tree of knowledge” and then talks about a place beyond the law (which he identified as the tree of knowledge of good and evil) where men meet a Christ.  “This man of sin is the personification of the sin of man. This is our basic nature until we are changed in Christ.  This is the mature fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. The root and power of the man of sin is the serpent; the beast had to be fully revealed in man – whatever is sown must also be reaped.  In this beast we see ourselves without Christ.  By this revelation we begin to perceive the depth of the unfathomable grace and mercy of God and our profound need to be reborn in Christ.” (Ibid, pp. 16-17.)

A little further in this same paragraph he says that the evil in this world is from the same root as the good in this world.  Notice: “The evil nature of man is manifested in these last days with increasing intensity, but so is the ‘good’ of man which is rooted in the same tree.  Just as the evil is becoming more blatant, the good is becoming more subtle and deceptive.” (Ibid, p. 18.)

Those who have not had Mr. Joyner’s version of being born again are either the bad or the good whom he says are becoming more subtle and deceptive.  We are witnessing in this man’s writings some of the most blatant “false teachings” ever to invade the church to my knowledge.  He is preparing the way for any person who clings to the doctrines of the Bible to be identified as the real enemy.

Communion And The New Elite

Even the Lord’s Supper does not escape his penknife. No longer does the flesh and blood represent His bleeding and broken body, now it represents the church.  Here is his expression, “When the Lord referred to the eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood, of course He was not talking of his physical flesh and blood, but of what they symbolically represented -His life and His body, the church (we are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh).” (Ibid, p. 164.) Please notice that communion, according to Mr. Joyner, does not represent death and resurrection, but some kind of life and the church, apparently the new elite church that has been initiated.

This is a very dangerous concept concerning the Lord’s Supper.  The Scripture teaches that we receive communion to show forth His death until He comes.  Just as Mr. Joyner calls “The Tree of Knowledge” the law so he calls “The Tree of Life” the Lord Jesus.  As is true with all the religious leaders that have experienced “The New Paradigm” they use familiar language to say new things that leave you wondering what side they are on.  Confusing?  It was meant to be.

The New Agers have learned that the “New Paradigm” cannot be experienced until the old fundamental truths are destroyed.  Every idea of Scripture has got to be seen in a new light.  Everything must change.  All great doctrines must be understood by a new revelation.  That’s what a new “paradigm” means.  The same Jesus, the same Bible, the same experiences, but all seen with a new “world view.” These teachers can teach for hours saying all the familar words, but introducing you to a totally new Jesus or Christ that is false and from the Devil himself.

1995 On Joyner’s Calendar

Rick Joyner’s Prophetic Bulletin for 1995 is a perfect picture of Babel.  It is a joke to any church that is anchored in the Bible, but, to a church world already separated from Scripture it becomes a revelation itself.  He called 1995 the year when there will be an outpouring of “a word of wisdom.” There is no Biblical basis for his prophecy except his own conjured ideas.  But again, when your sources are the “demons preparing the world for Antichrist and the false prophets,” it is a perfect picture.

When you remember that the new idea coming down theological circles is the worship of Sophia, the goddess of wisdom, this fits the overall prophetic picture.  John, in the Book of Revelation, makes it clear that the religious world will be dominated by a harlot woman who teaches the world to commit fornication (spiritual fornication).  “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her handfull of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.” (Revelation 17:3-6, KJV).

The most spectacular event of 1993 was the Re-emerging Conference, sponsored by several mainline churches.  The center of attention was their worship of Sophia, the goddess of wisdom.  The Assemblies of God just conducted a World Congress in Korea (October 1994) in which “earth worship” was a primary function.  Listen to the word of Paul Yonggi Cho, a major New Ager and the host and chairman of this event.

“Through our prayer, we will ask for God’s mercy and the Holy Spirit, who dramatically changed people of the early church, will lift fallen man again and also give renewed life to our earth that is dying because of the terrible pollution and environmental problems. . . . Unusual changes in weather patterns are occurring all over the world and the ecological system is being severely demolished day by day as a result of people’s sins and crimes.  If we refuse to act now, the earth will be totally destroyed sooner or later.

“First we are going to ask God in unison: ‘May Your divine healing power of the Holy Spirit come upon our earth as well as upon those people who have become corrupted and heal them.’

“. . . Press on as never before for world evangelization.  Be a good steward of the holy responsibility to bring wholeness to our earth until the day of Christ’s coming again.” (The Inkhorn, Vol. 6, No. 2, April 1995, p. 34.)

The following is the “Grand Prayer Rally Prospectus” statement as it was published in the program.

“The world is facing the crisis of self-destruction.  When people gradually lose their dignity as a human being they disrupt the order of nature. We prefer the provocation of war to maintaining peace. We prefer the environmental disruption to preserving the environment.  As a result, the earth is dying from a variety of pollutions and contamination everyday.  Unless this deterioration is stopped, there is no guarantee for the future of human beings. Furthermore, it is a tragedy of our age that we cannot work out the permanent solution of all of these problems.

“Therefore, the urgency confronting all the churches is to release the Holy Spirit throughout the world in every direction to bring spiritual renewal to the whole mankind through prayer.  And churches must solve the environmental crisis of the earth by restoring harmonious relationship among God, human beings and nature.

“In view of this, we hold the ‘Grand Prayer Rally’ on Yoido Plaza under the auspices of the World Assemblies of God Fellowship.  Via satellite, thirty million members of the World Assemblies of God will join this soul-searching prayer rally.  When we pray in unison, God will hear us and heal our land through releasing the mighty work of the Holy Spirit.” (Ibid, pp. 34-35.) There is more on this event in the article, “Treaty From Hell.”

Mr.  Joyner Defends Holy Laughter And Mimicing Animals

Mr Joyner is a New Ager feeding this same kind of garbage into the Pentecostal ranks.  He defends the current pandemonium of “holy laughter” with the following statement:

“One of the disconcerting aspects of this movement has been the animal sounds and mimics that some have felt compelled to make.  There are ‘signs and wonders,, and almost everyone is wondering about this sign.  Some of it is demonic.  Some of it is mere human foolishness.  Some of it is really inspired by the Holy Spirit.  There will always be tares in the wheat, but this is something that the Holy Spirit is doing, and it is important.

“As John Amos Comenius paraphrased the apostle Paul, ‘Nature is God’s second book.’ The December 1994 issue of National Geographic carried an insightful article titled ‘Animals at Play.’ The author of this article had been commissioned by Texas Governor John Connally to do a psychological study on mass murderers after the tragic murder of sixteen people on a Texas campus.  The one common denominator that this author found in the character of mass murderers was that ‘they never learned to play.’… The conclusion was essentially that learning to play is necessary for the healthy development, and possibly the survival, of almost every creature.” (The Morning Star, Prophetic Bulletin, January 1995, p. 8.)

Conclusion

Mr. Joyner condemns those in the church who refuse to allow any departure from the Holy Scripture.  He believes it is time to “lighten up” and quit being so serious.  Here we are on the verge of the darkest time of human history when millions will be destroyed and condemned to eternal bell and it’s time in Joyner’s theology to “lighten up.” Here is a paragraph from his prophetic vision for 1995.  Please note that we who are involved in exposing this “New Age Babel” in churches are called “Spiritual Mass Murderers.” The enemy has become the “Bible believers,” who refuse the false message of men like Rick Joyner.  Here are his words:

“If we studied the ‘spiritual mass murderers,’ who spread slander and seek to spiritually assassinate other Christians, it would almost certainly be found that they are so bound by the religious spirit that they cannot stand any form of religious levity.  The Lord is trying to get His people to simply “lighten up.” It is a serious delusion for us to take ourselves, or our work, too seriously, because that is usually an indication that we are still moving in our own human energy.  The Lord really does sit in the heavens and laugh, and when we are truly seated with Him, seeing from His perspective, we too will begin to laugh at many of the things that we are so uptight about now.” (Ibid.)

There are a multitude of other false doctrines taught by Rick Joyner, but space does not allow for a complete analysis.

My prayer is that our God will grant space to repent to Mr. Joyner and the host of good people who have been influenced by his babble.  The Truth of God’s commandments and redemption will forever stand.  No amount of false doctrine will stop the true church and the remnant of faithful believers.

All quotes concerning Mr. Joyner are directly from his writings.

Source:  http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/joyner.html

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Now why would a so called Christian man like Angus Buchan be working with the epitome of evil like Rick Joyner?  It is a WELL KNOWN FACT that Rick Joyner calls for a Christian Civil War.

One of Joyner’s other major themes, addressed in the apologetic newsletter Vanguard, is the “CIVIL WAR.” In an article titled “Rick Joyner: Christian Gnostic,” author Neil Richardson zeroes in on one of Joyner’s major themes. Richardson writes:

“His ‘big thing’ is The Great Christian Civil War: Like the American Civil War, the coming spiritual civil war will also be between the Blue and the Gray. In dreams and visions, blue often represents heavenly mindedness — the sky is blue; and gray speaks of those who live by the power of their minds — the brain is often called gray matter. This will be a conflict between those who may be genuine Christians, but who live mostly according to their own natural minds and human wisdom, and those who follow the Holy Spirit. (The Morning Star Prophetic Bulletin, May 1996, 2).”1

Joyner’s prognostications about the upcoming Christian “civil war” are many and various. The most widespread publication of these is in his books, A Prophetic Vision for the 21st Century and The Final Quest.2

CRN Journal ponders and summarizes Joyner’s intent:

“The violent images Joyner adopts are, it seems, to be directed, not against liberals in the church, as we might suppose, but against those who are ‘not open’ to the new visions and prophecies — those who ‘religiously’ stand on the written Word alone.”3

So the railing of Joyner is not against heresy or false teaching but against believers who disagree. Moreover, Joyner teaches that demons direct and ride Christians who think, reason and discern.4

source:

Again I ask, why would Angus Buchan meet up with a man like this?  Is it because Angus Buchan is NOT who he appears to be?  Most definitely.  Angus loves to tell you that he is just a simple man that apparently knows nothing. No, he knows a whole lot more than he is telling you (the public) and I pray that you stop following after him like some divine spark.  Angus belongs to the CULT of the New Order of the Latter Rain and he is fooling everyone.

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What is Manifest Sons of God Heresy:

Romans 8:19“19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.”

In the Latter Rain Movement they have what they call the ‘Manifest Sons of God’ where they twist the above scripture to mean that some will obtain immortality by incarnating Jesus Christ before He returns.

The truth of the matter is this;  All creation awaits the removal of the “Curse of Futility”, sin placed upon it by God from the Fall of Adam. What Latter Rain believers neglect is the CONTEXT and other passages in the bible that explain this event.

Romans 8:22-23  22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The adoption the redeeming of our body, when, how?

Philippians 3:20-21:  “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17: “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

We only become immortal once we are raised up to meet Jesus Christ in the air – not before, never!

What Latter Rain (Kingdom Now / Dominionists) believers preach is nothing short of another New Age version of becoming a little god while alive on earth in a human body.  The same lie that Satan told in Genesis, just portrayed another way.

Genesis 3:4-5  ” 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

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Who else is teaming up with Angus at this Apostolic and Prophetic Conference:

At the conference we have Danie Slabbert, Nevil Norden and T.E. Mbedzi.

Danie Slabbert:

Danie Slabbert lists the following false teachers on his website as credible men/women of God, namely, Benny Hinn Ministries, Rodney Howard-Browne, Kim Clement, T D Jakes Ministries, Juanita Bynum Ministries, Bishop Eddie Long, and many many more.

Nevil Norden:

Apostle T.E. Mbedzi:

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Todd Bentley:  Prophetic word – Jesus to make personal appearance in Lakeland, 8 June 2008:

Script from 3:02s

Todd Bentley:  “I’m telling you right now, I believe that people can receive impartation. Now, let me tell you the prophetic word that, that Wendy [Alec] gave me, for those watching. And, this is, this is why I believe tomorrow night’s meeting–if you live in, you live, you’re watching me on the internet and you’re local, and you can be here Sunday night. Listen to this:

At this point, Bentley reads Wendy Alec’s ‘prophetic word’:  “The Lord just spoke to me and said, ‘This is what will happen tomorrow night. The King and the King’s anointing falls tomorrow night. The 8 June, the anointing of the King of glory falls.'”

“Jesus said, ‘I am coming in person. The King is coming in person.’ I sense so strongly there will be a personal, divine visitation of the Lamb of God–the Lord Jesus Christ to the revival tomorrow night.”

“He will come in the clouds in His chariot, surrounded by a great angelic host, because the great honoring of the Lamb of God. The King of glory is coming to visit Lakeland; to visit the revival; to visit the outpouring. The devil trembles with that knowledge.”

“For tomorrow, the King of glory sets foot upon the stage in divine, personal, one-to-one visitation.”

Todd Bentley then states:  “Now, for all those watching and even that just don’t understand the nature of the prophetic, though I’m open to a, the Lord can appear. Now, I’ve seen the Lord. I’m not suggesting there’s going to be a physical, flesh, Jesus Christ on the plat[form]. I hope, I hope you understand, we’re talking about in atmosphere; we’re talking about in spiritual experience; we’re talking about in impartation.”

“Now, now, Roy, if tonight and last night’s worship is any indication that something is changing in the realm of the glory; something about the King of glory.”

“Oh God, we wanna set a place up in the throne of our hearts, more than anything else, for you to come and visit! Come on! Who wants to have the King come in His glory?! Come on! Lift up…” (And the audience cheered)

————-

Todd Bentley’s Blasphemous Baptisms

Here you see Todd Bentley baptize people in the name of the BAM and the name of the SHEEKA BOO BA BAM. He also growls at one point when he says,”…and the Holy Spirit”.  The false Kundalini unholy spirit that causes people to shake like this is set upon the people by the calling down of FIRE.  Notice Todd mentions that the water tub feels like its got electricity in it. The Kundalini unholy spirit produces electricity and heat.

Todd Bentley – Restored and ‘supposedly’ Changed with the help of Rick Joyner

“When one goes through the kind of restoration Todd has been through over the last year and a half you usually come out stronger in basic Christian disciplines and character than ever. I feel that is certainly the case with Todd. However, I was surprised by the depth, power, and the impartation of the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit that was immediately present when we released Todd into limited local ministry…”   —Rick Joyner – The ElijahList Email”  ”Check Out These Todd Bentley Events” May 15, 2010  [Emphasis added]

According to Rick Joyner, Todd has been restored, forgiven and has returned a genuine Christian.

This is what Todd said back in Lakeland in middle of 2008.  It was shocking that he did not want to preach about Jesus:

This is what Todd has to say now in May 2010:

Um yeah….

I can definitely see a change…for the worse.

————————————————————————————————————

Notes:
1. Neil Richardson, “Rick Joyner: Christian Gnostic,” Vanguard, September 1998, pg. 20.
2. A Prophetic Vision for the 21st Century, op. cit., pp. 178-191. Rick Joyner, The Final Quest. New Kensington, Pa.: Whitaker House, 1996, pp. 22-25.
3. “Rick Joyner: Prophet of the New Christianity,” op. cit., pg. 29.
4. The Final Quest, op. cit., pp. 17-21.
————————————————————————————————————-
 
LIST OF ALL ANGUS BUCHAN ARTICLES:

  1. Angus Buchan – A ‘False Bible’ in 366 Days for Men
  2. Angus Buchan says, “Put your Doctrinal Differences Aside!
  3. Angus Buchan and the Roman Catholic Reconciliation
  4. The ‘Manifest Sons of God’ belief of Angus Buchan
  5. Angus Buchan, Benny Hinn and God TV (with Wendy and Rory Alec)
  6. Graham Power & Angus Buchan – The Transformation of Africa
  7. Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers (FREEMASONARY)
  8. Why does Angus Buchan get promoted by God TV
  9. THE ORIGINAL VERSION – The Dominionist Faith of Angus Buchan – Faith Like Potatoes
More...

69 comments to NAR Invasion of SA – Rick Joyner, Angus Buchan, Danie Slabbert, Nevil Norden @ Apostolic Prophetic Conference – July 2012

  • Robbie

    Bold move Debs. Great article!
    Amazing how they all act their role. I am not surprised to see tattoo Tod here too. I read about Rick’s “affair” with him.

    Makes me think of rev… “out of the sea came” (emergents emerging)
    And to think many will still enter eyes wide shut…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Robbie

    I wish the MEN of South Africa would wake up. I am going to now be even bolder and say this; it is a shame that I (a woman) am left to DISCERN the error because all the men are braai’ing at the MMC’s slurping up every story that comes out of Angus Buchan’s mouth, thinking he must be just what a ‘man of God’ must look like. The men of this country would not know what the true Word of God was if it jumped out and bit them on the nose – this is how far gone they are. (Of course I am not speaking about everyone, I am speaking about everyone that attends Angus Buchans camps and conferences).

  • Robbie

    God has indeed turned a few specially with this last expose but…
    “strait remains the gate, and narrow the way”

    I told you I have relatives in his camp… *sigh* Let us take hands and keep praying.
    And you keep this up. Look after yourself.

  • Paul

    Deborah wrote:
    “it is a shame that I (a woman) am left toDISCERN the error because all the men are braai’ing at the MMC’s slurping upevery story that comes out of Angus Buchan’s mouth, thinking he must be justwhat a ‘man of God’ must look like. The men of this country would not know whatthe true Word of God was if it jumped out and bit them on the nose – this ishow far gone they are. (Of course I am not speaking about everyone, Iam speaking about everyone that attends Angus Buchans camps and conferences)”

    it is a real shame for us men indeed, and that seems to be a pattern today worldwide: Where are the men when wolves in sheep clothing are devouring the flock and leading them to the slaughter?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Paul

    Ahhhh finally you managed to comment! I was beginning to get worried and nearly started getting grey hairs trying to figure out the problem ;P

  • Paul

    Yes, finally.
    But still unable to comment on the Nancy Missler article though. I also changed browser from IE9 to Chrome. Maybe that article has too many comments already…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Paul

    Noo, there is no limit to comments. I just approved the article again, maybe a bug in the system. Try again please.

  • Hester

    My reaction to this is actually one of deep deep sadness because as I watched the young man from Canada being “baptised” by Tod, it struck me that he has no idea! He is “new” to this and probably thinks this is how it should be. Oh I pray that God will have mercy and grace and will not allow these people to go through their lives blinded by this. Debs I am crying as I am sitting here. What a terrible terrible lie!!!! The youth is paying a dear dear price and they are not aware of it.

  • Hester

    Debs, should we maybe not email this to Angus and ask him if he is aware of what is being said and what these men are up to?? I wonder if he will respond? Have u tried perphaps? What is your take on this?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hester

    I have on previous occasions emailed shalom ministries but I get no reply – so I stopped emailing.

  • Bryan K. Pfister

    This quote from A. W. Pink drives at the crux of Another Gospel’s like NAR and the Prosperity Gospel which was written before these became prevalent today. Alas, there is is nothing new under the Sun, but things often get recast in a different light with a thin veneer of Truth to back it up.

    “The “gospel” of Satan

    The gospel of Satan is not a system of revolutionary principles, nor yet a program of anarchy. It does not promote strife and war, but aims at peace and unity. It seeks not to set the mother against her daughter nor the father against his son, but fosters the fraternal spirit whereby the human race is regarded as one great “brotherhood.” It does not seek to drag down the natural man, but to improve and uplift him. It advocates education and cultivation and appeals to “the best that is within us.” It aims to make this world such a comfortable and congenial habitat that Christ’s absence from it will not be felt and God will not be needed. It endeavors to occupy man so much with this world that he has no time or inclination to think of the world to come. It propagates the principles of self-sacrifice, charity and benevolence, and teaches us to live for the good of others, and to be kind to all. It appeals strongly to the carnal mind and is popular with the masses, because it ignores the solemn facts that by nature man is a fallen creature, alienated from the life of God, and dead in trespasses and sins, and that his only hope lies in being born again.” End Quote. Quote taken from this great article about “Another Gospel.”

    [url removed]

    NAR is just another example of Man’s Total Depravity. Question for Deborah. By what power did William Branham do all his miracles when many of his own teachings were so false? Yet, thousands of people believed in and followed Branham’s teachings because of all of his miracles. Moreover, at about the same time as Branham, in the Catholic Church, Padre Pio had similar miracles as Branham when he himself also was a victim of False Teaching. So, this is not merely a Protestant problem either, and this deception by miracles even exists in the pagan world as well with witch doctors too. If God can not tempt anyone with evil, then why do people think God Himself, by His Holy Spirit thru Jesus Christ in a person, would work miracles through false teachers since it would be a worse sin than tempting them with evil because these miracles, though genuine, are an outright deception to lure people into following these false teachings, which are sinful to spread?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Bryan

    >> If God can not tempt anyone with evil, then why do people think God Himself, by His Holy Spirit thru Jesus Christ in a person, would work miracles through false teachers since it would be a worse sin than tempting them with evil because these miracles, though genuine, are an outright deception to lure people into following these false teachings, which are sinful to spread.

    WHAT???? O_O

    Don’t comment again, your type of evil thinking is not welcome here.

  • Burning Lamp

    John 3:16 (Limited Atonement)

    The article quotes the views on John 3:16 of Charles Spurgeon and Arthur Pink who are popular and often quoted by believers.
    For instance, one quote from Pink’s attack on God’s plan of salvation includes this statement:
    “If it were true that Christ shed His blood for those who are now in hell, what guarantee would be left me that I shall not go there?” [The Satisfaction of Christ-Studies in the Atonement, Arthur W. Pink, Truth for Today Publications, pg 245] Can you believe this? This is not truth!

    It is beyond me how those who claim Christ as Savior can take Calvinists like Pink seriously.

  • Bryan K. Pfister

    [deleted – I am not posting the nonsense you are commenting. Read this article – Can Satan Heal? God DOES NOT do miracles though false teachers. That’s like saying God is part anti-Christ. You said in your previous comment “>> If God can not tempt anyone with evil, then why do people think God Himself, by His Holy Spirit thru Jesus Christ in a person, would work miracles through false teachers…..” Goes does not tempt man with evil, SATAN tempts man with evil. Did God tempt Jesus Christ when he spent 40 days in the desert? No, it was Satan! (Matthew 4:1-11)

    A false prophet can NOT have 2 spirits abiding in him, He can not have the Holy Spirit and a false spirit, just because some guy thinks someone has 2 spirits does not mean it’s the Holy Spirit – never, more like 2 demonic spirits. Just as a genuine Christian can not have 2 spirits, he will only have the Holy Spirit abiding in him. William Branham was a false prophet through and through. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/09/william-branham-false-prophet-2/.

    Then once you have finished read that I ask that you please read this:

  • Bryan K. Pfister

    Thanks burning lamp! :-) This from your article posted is very true! :-)

    “Understanding the Nature of Salvation is the key to unlocking the Bible. If one does not grasp God’s plan of redemption, how can anything else be rightly understood. If the foundation is not solid, any structure built on it cannot stand. I agree with Spurgeon when he said “..I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright. It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that he gives both; that he is `Alpha and Omega’ in the salvation of men.” [Free Will – A Slave, A sermon delivered Sunday morning, December 2, 1855, at New Park Street Chapel, London, England.]”

  • Burning Lamp

    Bryan, you missed the point I was making. Pink talked heresy! Calvinism is heresy! A false gospel.

    And if you are ascribing the works of Satan to the Holy Spirit you are treading on quicksand. This is blasphemy!

  • Bryan K. Pfister

    “A false prophet can NOT have 2 spirits abiding in him, He can not have the Holy Spirit and a false spirit, just because some guy thinks someone has 2 spirits does not mean it’s the Holy Spirit – never, more like 2 demonic spirits. Just as a genuine Christian can not have 2 spirits, he will only have the Holy Spirit abiding in him. William Branham was a false prophet through and through.” — Exactly! So, why didn’t Derek Prince say so when he wrote that about Branham??? Pink said the Sovereignty of God is the foundation of Theology, and I agree. From the perspective of God’s Sovereignty what you said is true.

    BTW, when I said, “If God can not tempt anyone with evil, then why do people think God Himself, by His Holy Spirit thru Jesus Christ in a person, would work miracles through false teachers…” I did not mean I, and did not say, I believed that because I know it was not true per James 1: 13. I wanted to see what you believed and would say.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Bryan

    Sorry to say but you are a very confused person. You follow the false doctrine of Calvinism and you lean on the writings of men instead of leaning on the Holy Spirits guidance and the Word of God alone.

    I do not know why you are asking me these questions Bryan – I do not follow William Branham, Derek Prince, Pink, or any of these false preachers you keep quoting for some unknown reason. A quick perusal of my blog and you would have figured that out very quickly.

  • Carol Williamson

    Please….what is the significance/meaning of the hand(s) signal/position of T E Mbedzi in above picture? I see this exact sign all over in “Christian” speakers, secular newscasters, etc., etc., etc. I suspect it is a secret signal that seems to be well known to a large group of “insiders.”
    Thanks

  • Fanie van Staden

    Great article.
    it saddens me to see what “tattoo Tod” does with God’s sheep. Jesus told Peter THREE time to look after His sheep… Tod is not heeding Jesus’ instruction here.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Carol

    That is the “All Seeing Eye” Thanks for picking that up! And you are right I too have seen that before a lot – comes in many shapes and sizes.

  • Robbie

    Hey Debs. look who’s back?
    Just couldn’t stay away could you Fanie??

    Nosy…. gmf.

  • Robbie

    … and one more thing. It is safer to use an avatar.. would recognize that face anywhere.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Fannieeeeeee – missed you :)

    I hope you are learning a lot about the doctrine of Latter Rain and that all these Apostolic and Prophetic people (Angus included) are false.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >> … and one more thing. It is safer to use an avatar.. would recognize that face anywhere.

    LOL

  • Kate Akele

    Sorry Debs for being out of touch! I’ve been busy as an editor in the publishing company I work for and in. Two, I’ve had lots of personal issues to deal with.Try adding Boko Haram’s bombastic mischief to the mix…
    Lucky SA! Nigeria must be that low on the NAR radar! I do remember W.F Kumuyi inviting C. Peter Wagner once for a conference on church growth. The latter put an X on Wagner’s books on ‘spiritual warfare’ that came some years later. Anyway….

  • Derek

    I know Angus personally, instead of fault finding go preach the good news..

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Derek

    You know how many have told me they know him personally? So I should now stop testing the words he speaks because you know him personally? I think not.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Hi Debs,

    I have been following you for quite a while now (not in a freaky way, lol), and I must tell you I have been so blessed and encouraged with this site. You are a wonderful woman of God, and I pray that our Lord will bless and strengthen you all the way, dear sister in Christ.

    I have also learned an incredible amount from your articles. I might share my testimony with you at some point.

    This might be the wrong place to post this, so apologies if it causes any inconvenience.

    I am wondering if you have heard of a man called Joe Ortiz? I found him through someone I know, and this person now ‘follows’ Joe Ortiz. Mr Ortiz is a wicked man in my eyes. He has written books, one called The End Time Passover. He has blogs on facebook and many other sites too. He refutes the rapture, denies the truth about Israel, he says the millenial reign won’t happen. He says Christians will go through the whole tribulation…and we do not go to heaven or hell on dying. This man is bad news! He also has connections to Angus Buchan.

    Anyway, I must dash….you are doing the most amazing job on here! Love and God bless.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dear Myfanwy

    Thank you so much for your comment. Thank Jesus for this website, because it is HE who is running this blog. So thank Him for leading you to this website so that you could be blessed and be encouraged on truthful matters. And also in a way meet up here with like minded or ONE minded fellow Christians.

    I have not heard of this man called Joe Ortiz, but it does not surprise me that he is connected to Angus Buchan, because EVERYONE seems to know Angus lol. I will check his guy out.

    Thanks for following this blog (and not in a freaky way) I have far to many of those already haha ;P

    Debs

  • Trish

    Dear Deborah,

    I wanted to take the time to also thank you for your ministry and for your dedication and commitment to the truth. These are hard times for warning ministries,as the attack on the truth is relentless,and the pressure to give up must be overwhelming sometimes. So I thank God our Father and our dear and precious Lord Jesus Christ for blessing your ministry and keeping it active and going strong for those of us who are doing our best in this wicked and perverse generation to defend biblical Christianity and preach the true and saving Gospel and earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints amongst ravenous wolves looking to devour the sheep. As an online Christian apologist, I have found a few online ministries dedicated to warning the flock of the wolves for our edification. Thank you dear sister and may God continue to bless and sustain your ministry here and meet every need and continue to provide you with His wisdom and the gift of discernment in these last days before the glorious return of our King of kings and Lord of lords Yeshua/Jesus the Christ!

    Blessings in Christ Jesus,

    trish

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hi Trish

    Thank you so much!

    Much luv and hugs to you!

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Debs,

    I heartily agree with Trish..

    I do thank the Lord for helping me to find your website, as well as John Chingford’s blog. I have also found some lovely friends who encourage me. I really need true Christians to fellowship with online, as I am in a very isolated and lonely situation.

    I went on a long journey with a few different churches in my life, and I was totally deceived. I believe the Holy Spirit was prompting me to earnestly seek the truth, as I could find no joy in any of these places. I went through many years of struggle, physically, emotionally and spiritually. I finally prayed and asked the Lord to please help me find complete truth, as I did not want to go on feeling so confused and unhappy, neither did I wish to live a lie or be following after false teachers and teaching.

    The last church I attended is called His People church (Cape Town, SA), and I was there for eight years. So many things happened in the time I was there, and at times I felt so hopeless, confused..and unworthy. I attended their Bible school for two years, I was heavily involved in a cell group and at one point I was being ‘moulded’ into being in a lower leadership role. Last night I actually went and looked at their website, and I was also reading up about Entire Nations, another church body that His People is linked/intergrated with..who used to be under the name ‘Morningstar’.

    My stomach turned, it brought back some unhappy memories. I then linked to a site that had comments on by previous members of His People, and it was very interesting to read, as many folk had the same feelings and experiences that I had felt and had myself. One of the things frequently said was about how people are kept running in circles with church, home cell, Bible school and many other committments. It is hard on family relationships.. and on the individual. ( I am not calling them a cult, but I believe their hold on people is cultish). On further reading I realised how tied up with and intergrated His People is with all the people and organistaions that I now know to be teaching falsely. I already knew that there were many things that were done and taught there, that were ‘dodgy’ and unbiblical..from my own experience..but it all just became quite clear to me how deceived I had been. As with many of the churches in apostasy today, they have mixed teachings that look innocent and Christian-like on the outside, but don’t be fooled.

    Anyway…I praise God that I can now discern rightly, and that mercifully I have escaped the lies of satan, but I know we have to be ever vigilant.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    PS…can someone tell me how to change my little face..or avatar as I think it is called!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Myfanwy

    Yes, sorry, it’s not my fault that you have these ugly little icons, it’s a default on this site. Go to http://www.gravatar.com and register, then upload a picture that you like to gravatar.com and link it to your email address. Then wait a few minutes and then come check the blog and you will see that your image will change to the one you uploaded at gravatar – Just make sure you always use the same email address.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Ah..ta for that Debs, I did not think you had any control over them li’l faces, I will try and change it now, lol. Bless you.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Well that took me ages, lol, I am not very techy..do you like it Debs?

  • Burning Lamp

    Thank you Myfanwy for your testimony of God’s delieverance from the clutches of that group that apparently exerts strong control over the members, consuming their lives and not giving them room to breathe. Maybe someone will see your account and come out of the group.

    You are right, you can be assured that this site will take a strong stand for truth without compromise. That is not easy as it makes one the object of hatred and misunderstanding. But Debs chooses to please God, not man.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Myfanwy

    Yes it’s not the easiest thing on the block to do, even I took a while to figure it out. So don’t worry ;)

    Looks FAAANTastic!

  • Neels

    I living in South Africa and you guys really don’t have a clua, please tell me that you guys done to bring the Word of God to South Africa.

    You guys make me think of the People who crucified Jesus.
    Remeber the word go and read it in the Bible:
    If something is from God it will grow and if it is not from God is will end.
    Funny how Uncle Angus grow and his ministry grow.

  • Jan Smith

    I’ve read through all these comments but found nothing about Danie Slabbert or Nevil Norden. The Confernece in question was held in Nevil’s church in Pretoria and in view of his relationship with the “False Teachers” mentioned I am wondering how they fit into the picture. Debora’s comment will be appreciated.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jan Smith

    If a preacher invites a WOLF to speak to his sheep, then 1) the preacher is a wolf and believes as the invited wolf, 2) the preacher is not obeying God and being he himself is being led astray by the invited WOLF and therefore leading God’s flock astray. 3) the preacher is a fool.

    However we know that Danie Slabbert and Nevil Norden, and Angus Buchan believe in Manifest Sons of God teaching, (that you can become a little god, while still on earth) – see pictures above, and so does Rick Joyner.

    Take your pick Jan from 1, 2 or 3. I pick no 1.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Neels

    I live in South Africa and I have a clue, a very big clue that all these men ARE WOLVES, open your eyes Neels. Just because a ministry grows does NOT mean it is from God.

  • Robbie

    Neels,

    Kyk mooi wat hier staan in Matteus. Die MEESTE mense sal mislei word.

    Mat 24:12 En omdat die ongeregtigheid vermeerder word, sal die liefde van die meeste verkoel.

    Ek dink jy moet bo aan hierdie artikel begin lees en kyk na Angus se vriendekring. Kyk bietjie sy nuwe maatjie Rick Joiner en die se vriend – Tattoo Todd Bentley.

    Is dit die soort predikers wat jy sal aanhang?

    Ons lewe in die eindtyd vriend. Lees die hele Matt 25.

    Soos Deborah se… as die skare groei beteken dit nie dit is van God nie. Hoe dink jy gaan almal deur die nou hekkie kom?

    Die Woord se mos: Narrow is the gate…
    En ek se: you better lose some weight or we will not fit… mate

  • Carm

    I see these people merging with militant Islam, soon.

    My moslem friend once told me we believe the same stuff, and serve the same God (which I denied). Because, said he, he also believes that the anti-christ (the Dajjal) is gonna come back and that Jesus will come back to defeat the anti-christ. But wait there’s more, then Jesus is going to reign from Jerusalem and establish Islam as the true religion, the whole world will be converted to Islam. So if this is true, then there will be a fake, decoy anti-christ…

    Already major steps are being made to iron out the differences between the 2 religions, the only obstacle will be those with a “religious spirit” – a.k.a. “fundamentalist” christians. From the New Age through to the NAR, comments are made that christians will have to “change or die”; “transition or die out”.

    RE Neels: militant Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world – so do we take it’s success to indicate that it pleases the Lord?

  • Jonathan Lewis

    In laymen terms..what exactly is new apostolic reformation. Nowhere is a clear to the point definition of it. Please help me understand as I really dont want to get caught in false doctrine.

  • Carm

    Jonathan, as far as I gathered, from my ex-involvement in it, these guys are saying that there’s something wrong with old school christianity, it’s not relevant etc. and it’s “missed the mark” (they heavily operate on intimidation, telling people you will eternally regret it if you don’t join their club). Therefore, God is bringing in a “New Reformation”, and for that purpose he is raising up a new breed of apostles… yeah and God is restoring the offices of the 5-fold ministry (first he began with pastors, then teachers, evangelists, then prophets and behold now the super-apostles)… and this reformation is needed because the church (as we know it) is inadequate to bring in the harvest.

    First they said they were restoring church to the model of the 1st centuary church (hence the emphasis on 5-fold ministry, spiritual gifts and cell-groups), but then they said God is doing a “new thing”… and every weird teaching and gnostic revelation is the “new thing” that those with “old wineskins” simply can’t fathom… etc. and some more intimidation telling everyone who opposes the “new thing” that they are Jezebel incarnate, or have a “familiar spirit”, or some other invisible syndrome which results in God “passing them by”… because they have been “weighed and found wanting” and have “disqualified themselves” from being used of God.

    I think you are quite right when you say there is no clear definition, as that’s part of their game-plan… they are forever “transitioning” and “restructuring” into the “new thing”. That is also the strategy of the emergent movement: no clear definition.

    Essentially what you are dealing with is christianised gnostism and they operate via a gnostic control structure (think pyramid): when God delivered me out of it, I had to actually learn what gnostism is about in order to repent for “thinking like an occultist” – I didn’t even think like a christian. And that’s what happening now with things like “positive confessions”, “name, frame and claim”, “fresh revelation equals spiritual authority”, prosperity / word of faith movement: christians are subtlely being trained to think and operate like occultists.

  • Jonathan Lewis

    Thank you Charm

  • William

    Be very careful what you write. I did see people question your article and you didn’t response in love. I have seen life’s change; I have seen miracles with my own eyes when Angus preaches. I am just saying. How you judge, you will be judge. I say that out of a heart of love. Just be careful.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    William

    >> Be very careful what you write

    You threatening me?

    >> I have seen life’s change; I have seen miracles with my own eyes when Angus preaches.

    So Jesus has nothing to do with it?

    >> I am just saying. How you judge, you will be judge

    I’m not judging Angus, I am judging the false words that come out of his mouth that DO NOT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE.

    >> I say that out of a heart of love. Just be careful.

    You lie, you threaten me with a heart of hate.

  • Janine Stiller

    Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.
    1 Chronicles 16:22

    We need unity not division!!!

  • Janine Stiller

    God and only god will utterly judge us with both love and righteousness

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Janine

    If I have a R1 for every time someone said this to me I would be a millionaire. But I am poor, but RICH in spirit :)

  • Robbie

    Janine. That verse is so often quoted out of context. Maybe because it is being read to us instead of following till we get to the context.

    Go read 1 Sam. 15:3 and see what happened to those anointed ones who were disobedient. Saul was an anointed one. That did not stop David speaking out against him.

  • Donna

    I am utterly shocked and maybe in a little disbelief. I also follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit and has been praying for about 3 years now for God to bless my husband and I with the Spirit of Discernment. He was faithful in this by pointing out false doctrine in a church we attended for about 2 years…just one day…out of the blue. However, we’ve attended Lewende Woord where Nevil preaches for about 2 years now and my Spirit never picked up anything ungodly or weird. I just also think every statement or comment made such as above mentioned must be placed in front of God to reveal these things to us Himself.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Donna

    Donna, why were you praying for the Holy Spirit to bless you with the Spirit of Discernment when the Holy Spirit gives each and every born again Christian discernment :) Discernment comes part and parcel with the package when you receive the Holy Spirit.

    Now let’s say for just a moment in time your eyes were opened partially to false teaching throught the Holy Spirit abiding in you (because you are baby Christians still growing), it is time you wake up again to what you are involved in. This article is the truth, there are no lies in this article, and I am glad it has shocked you because I am praying that it’s shook you awake. So much so that you start praying and you ask Jesus to open your eyes COMPLETELY to the deception that is out there. Discernment and obedience come hand in hand.

    If you obey God’s commandments to not want to follow false teaching, if you obey God’s commandments to TEST everything to scripture as per 1 John 4:1-6 then the Holy Spirit will be there to give you discernment. How do you test things, you take what is said before the Word of God, take what Nevil Norden says before the Bible.

  • Felicity

    Hi Deborah

    Todd Bently is back in SA. In Durban at the moment. This is very scary

    blessings

    Felicity

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Felicity

    Yes, here is a snapshot from Todd’s website: http://wp.me/aBQp9-36E

    Because I was ill I missed a lot of stuff, but I am getting back on track again…

  • Ashley

    I found this blog looking up information on Todd Bentley as he is here in South Africa and I fell hook, line and wallet into this thing and so are so many other South Africans but thanks to God’s grace he has restored me and forgiven me. Thanks for your article on this man and his false teachings… really scary!

    Anyway, this article caught my attention because Angus Buchan is South African and I was reading through it and felt that this guy’s (R. Joyner’s) interpretation of the tree of the knowldge of Good and evil kind of makes sense.

    I am not a biblical scholar or anything like that but isn’t it the law what makes us aware of what is right or wrong (good or evil)? Like the speed limit on a highway is the law that tells me if I go above it that is wrong and if I stay on or below that limit I am not breaking the law (doing good).

    It kinda makes sense to me that the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil is symbolic of the law because the knowledge of good and evil can only exist if there is a written decree (law) of what is right or wrong.

    Without law one cannot be convicted of sin because there is no legal point of reference to judge the person by.

    I don’t know much about this guy Rick Joyner but I’m just saying what I think on the matter!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ashley

    Rick Joyner is a Freemason aka Satanist therefore his interpretation of the tree of knowledge is Satan’s version.

    >> Like the speed limit on a highway is the law that tells me if I go above it that is wrong and if I stay on or below that limit I am not breaking the law

    You are not under Law – this is the old testament, you are under a new Covenant, that being Jesus Christ who died for you, Jesus Christ is the Lamb who died once and for all and His blood washes away your sins. “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (Ephesians 1:7)

    Jesus came to fulfill the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

    >> Without law one cannot be convicted of sin

    In the Old Testament, the Law kept people ‘convicted’ of their sins and they would have to sacrifice an animal for forgiveness. In the New Testament, before Jesus left to ascend to Heaven, He left us the Holy Spirit who abides in each and every born again Christian. The Holy Spirit will guide us and lead us into all Truth according to Biblical scripture. (John 16:12). We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Saviour. [1 Corinthians 12:13] and He convicts you of sin, i.e., Chastisement by the Holy Spirit when we sin to repent of our sin to Jesus Christ and not sin again. [Hebrews 12:6-7; Hebrews 12:8]

    We do not sacrifice animals, no, we are not under law. To be under law, you place yourself under a curse [Galatians 3:1-10]

    >> I am not a biblical scholar or anything like that

    Did you know that you don’t need to be a biblical scholar to know this? :) All it takes is some dedicated time in studing the scriptures to find out the truth. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

    Please read this article about Rick Joyner: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/06/15/nar-invasion-of-sa-rick-joyner-angus-buchan-danie-slabbert-nevil-norden-apostolic-prophetic-conference-july-2012/

  • Ashley

    Thank you Deborah for your response and thanks for this blog which to me is a true labour of love!

    Thanks again!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ashley

    Thank you :) Any questions, just ask, that’s what we are here for.

  • John Andrews UK/Ireland

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Ashley
    Thank you :) Any questions, just ask, that’s what we are here for.

    Not a question just some false teachers that want you to “bring some levity to your church”. These guys belong to “Global Awakening” and apparently were in Southampton this month (Sept 2014). You have some on your list, but some ? new ones. Already their effect has been seen in a local service in Kilkenny with the “designated preacher” being upstaged by an extended “boom-boom-thump-thump” repetitive praise and worship followed by two men and two women “prophesying” and them “boom -boom-thump-thump” again to “get in deeper” to “something” and get all three members of the Trinity to “manifest their presence”. This led by the single pastor calling the “disorder” agenda. Sound exciting? – “yawn-yawn” more like it. A good “chaos-party” and just me as an observer not impressed. Preacher spoke afterwards and said to me “Well that’s the shortest sermon I have preached (and probably the best one at that), at least I am sure I did not make any mistakes” (brackets mine).

    RANDY CLARK & BILL JOHNSON
    Randy Clark, Bill Johnson and other “Latter Rain/New Apostolic Reformation” charismatic/pentecostal personalities will be at the upcoming “Voice of Apostles 2013”, August, 2013, in Orlando, Florida promo:

    The “Global Awakening History” on the Global Awakening/Apostolic Missions Network church website of Randy Clark, located in Mechanicsburg, PA, relates how Clark, a Vineyard church pastor, met Wimber, ex-Quaker, who founded the Vineyard Church:
    http://globalawakening.com/home/about-global-awakening/history-of-global-awakening.
    Let Us Reason relates the Randy Clark associations with Rodney Howard-Browne, Kenneth Hagin, and Bill Johnson of “Freshfires Revivalism”
    At Sermondrop, the “healing rooms” training sermons of Clark and Johnson are here for your listening pleasure: (deleted)
    What is a “healing room”? Well this video gives only the public face of the ecumenically involved folks who use what they believe are Holy Spirit given gifts in a “deliverance ministry” to cast out demons in those “rooms”:
    John Wimber’s Vineyard Church has been a major proponent of “healing rooms” as well as affiliated Vineyard churches and pastors such as Bruce Latshaw of Vineyard Christian Fellowship, Landenberg, PA:

    END (to Global Awakening advert found on web when I looked to see who is involved)

    A new worm crawling out of the can every month, and we just had Oom Angus Buchan in June this year.
    Some revival (nogal)!

    * Not related to this topic below:

    And I learn some new religious jargon regularly such as: A question to whether we should tolerate a preacher that has got the gospel correctly, but is obviously teaching some other things (like the sign gifts) incorrectly:- The answer came back as follows:

    “Time will reveal if it is a “temporary error or a thorough deception”. The Spirit will not allow a person to persist in untruth. That’s why we have to wait to see which way it will go, because both good fruit and bad fruit take time to ripen”. (nogal)

    ** So here is the next question I would have asked:- How long does this “time of tolerance” last?
    We are not seeing the sign gifts and charimatic-mania abating, or have I missed a trick?

    This would probably start a new debate – sorry (we know the answer and our battle continues).

    And here I thought I was going to have a quiet Sunday …….

  • YvZ

    Hi Debs,

    DTW wrote:
    In the Latter Rain Movement they have what they call the ‘Manifest Sons of God’ where they twist the above scripture to mean that some will obtain immortality by incarnating Jesus Christ before He returns.

    Sorry if I sound a bit duh, but do you mean that they think they can actually live forever here on earth?

    I know Danie Slabbert has a DVD teaching The Manifest Sons of God.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    YvZ

    >> they think they can actually live forever here on earth?

    That is correct. Unbelievable eh?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Kobus van Rensburg tought the ‘you can be immortal on earth’ teaching but he did not called it Manifest Sons of God teaching he just called it Immortality and he believed he was immortal. He then died.

  • YvZ

    It’s absolutely unbelievable! Danie Slabbert also died last year just after he preached a sermon on tbn. I followed the story because his family and ‘spiritual sons’ prayed for him for two days for his resurrection. Then they said: “Dr Danie is in his element, the glory of God, and does not want to come back”. Evangelist Nicky vd Westhuizen also died, while travelling with Danie Slabbert I think 25 years ago. Strange how they are all connected…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    YvZ

    The same happened with Kobus van Rensburg they refused to bury him because they believed he was going to come back to life. I think they kept the coffin in the church for almost 2 weeks (maybe less) until the law stipulated that he needed to be burried. Not long after did they have a mass church session where the people of the church tied to resurrect him. It’s a very sad story actually – especially the number of people who believed in his lies and still do after his death. See here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/category/peoples-names-all-names/peoples-names-letter-k/kobus-van-rensburg-spirit-word-ministries/

  • YvZ

    Very sad indeed! I have never listened to Kobus van Rensburg ever, but heard about his story. Just by looking at him and his ministry from a distance, I got this ‘something is up’ feeling. He was as fake as you get, and not at all smart, as is Benny Hinn and I could name a few who are so obviously false. It’s like watching a clown show… Did God not give us a sound mind? I mean, if you can’t see that KvR is a fool then you are going to have a hard time discerning between the other false ministries going around.

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