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Author: Deborah (Discerning the World)

Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears

Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears

Nancy Missler began her Christianity under a woman who was known for training the next generation of ecumenical world leaders and established the campus ecumenical movement.

Nancy MisslerNancy Missler attended UCLA where she studied art. She met Chuck on a blind date in 1956 and they married the following year. Through Christian author and speaker Henrietta Mears, Nancy became a Christian, and she devoted herself to her family, raising the Misslers’ four children, Chip, Mark, Lisa and Michelle.. Nancy also established a company, Missler Aerial Photography Service, that specialized in aerial and architectural photography.”   —     [Emphasis added]

Henrietta Mears ecumenical influence was widespread. She was a close friend and coworker of Charles Fuller who promoted her Henrietta Mearson his radio broadcasts. Fuller, Ockenga, and Orr all taught at the Forest Home Christian Conference Center which she founded to “train the next generation of world leaders.” With Fuller, Ockenga, and Orr, Henrietta Mears established the campus ecumenical movement. For eleven years Mears groomed Bill Bright for leadership and Campus Crusade for Christ was founded in her living room. (Bill Bright was a member of the Council for National Policy Board of Governors in 1982.) According to Christianity Today, Henrietta Mears is the “grandmother of modern evangelicalism.”    [Emphasis added]

Chuck Missler is working with the UN on the following:

SWANsat - www.swansat.comThe SWANsat Project will place a constellation of three high-powered satellites into operation: One spacecraft will serve Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and western Asia. One spacecraft will serve North, Central, and South America. One spacecraft will serve central and east Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and the central Pacific. When operated together, all three spacecraft will provide coverage of the entire globe, except for polar areas.”  –

Aiding the UN connect the world via satellite for the coming one world order.

Dr. Charles W. “Chuck” Missler is a special advisor to the SWANsat™ project.  –


Regarding the latest book by Chuck and Nancy Missler titled Kingdom, Power, and Glory: The Overcomer’s Hand book this is what THE BEREAN CALL had to say about the book

“Nancy, has, in our view, serious doctrinal errors. The main thesis they present is that born-again believers fall into two categories: “overcomers” and “carnal Christians.” When both stand before Jesus at His judgment seat for rewards, those saved carnal Christians (whose lives have produced few, if any, good works) will be relegated to a place of outer darkness during the Millennium when overcoming Christians will rule and reign with Christ.”   —  [Emphasis added]

“In addition to the implications regarding the gospel, it grieves me deeply that the Misslers’ book may spread anxiety and fear among evangelicals, much like I had as a Roman Catholic. I knew I had punishments awaiting me, even if I made it to purgatory. Being delivered from that fear when I put my faith in the One who paid the full penalty for my sins, my heart joyfully rested in His words: “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you” (John 14:1-2). There are many, many other verses that clearly show that Jesus will never separate Himself nor cast the believer away from Himself. We have His blessed assurance.”  —   [Emphasis added]

Sound Familiar?

From the book ‘Heaven is so Real’ by Choo Thomas she says,

” When we got to the top, I looked over a brown and lifeless valley.  Everywhere there was brown.  The whole region seemed to be filled with dead grass.”I noticed multitudes of people who were wearing sand-colored robes roaming aimlessly in the vicinity of the pit’s yawning mouth.   Their heads were hanging low, and they looked very dejected and hopeless. “Who are these people, Lord?” I asked.

They are disobedient ‘Christians” “How long will they have to stay in this barren, lifeless place?”Forever, My daughter.  The only ones who will enter My kingdom are the pure of heart-My obedient children.” (p. 46 also p.249)    [Emphasis added]

We can see why Nancy Missler has managed to write such unbiblical nonsense because she learnt about ‘Christianity’ through Henrietta Mears – an ecumenical, unsaved woman with one world agenda.


89 comments to Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears

  • cecilia

    It seems as if they are ALL ‘interconnected’?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    It seems as if they are ALL interconnected?

    like a Koeksuster…

  • cecilia

    ‘n KOESISTER Deborah. although many people don’t know how to spell it, they just say it always.

    but – that is terrible D. and all TOLERANT towards EVERYONE who uses the name Jesus.

    The Jehovah’s Witnesses was at my door yesterday – they can be glad I could not go out at that minute! I will write to them again, just to remind them that they must have a look on their main map, that my house is black-marked. that means you’re a thread to them… because after I came out of them (yip, I was there too!!!) after six years, I knew how to zoom in on the learner and bring them to the point of doubt within two questions. then they had to go and learn more, so next time they won’t fall for it. aagh, where are those days…!!

    anyways, they put a little flier in my postbox. Usually I just tear it up, but I looked at the outsides front and back. They are holding ‘seminars’ to tell people why Jesus had to die for the whole world. So they also now proclaim Jesus… but not Jesus Christ the Lord…

  • Burning Lamp

    If memory serves correctly – and often it doesn’t :-) Was Billy Graham also influenced by her in some way?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Yip, she influenced Billy Graham, I remember that too. I will double check

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    koe sister? what’s koe mean? ‘koe koeeee, koe, koeeee’ is the noise of a bird!! koek on the other hand means to ‘bake or cake’ and the two sections of dough intertwining are the sisters. SO. I think, quite frankly, that I WIN. And now I am hungry. Well done!

  • Burning Lamp

    I never ceases to amaze me how Graham is still so revered when he has shown his dark side so many time. I guess he is one of the “untouchables” one who is idolized. Not that he ever sought that – he seems to be quite humble and uncomfortable with all the adoration. He has made no secret of his great esteem for Pope John Paul II and disregard for the errors of Catholicism and Robert Schuller, etc. His wife always maintained her Presbyterian heritage. Both Franklin and Anne are carrying on his legacy.

  • tony

    i do listen to Chuck Missler on godless tv now and then as they are running his Revelation series. He’s quite interesting so i thought i’d check him out on you tube. Found a series he done on Daniel, it was allright, nothing new really. Then came across something odd. He has a strange way of thinking out loud, but only doing in a kind of muttering voice. It is hard to make out some of his sentences. Anyway he mumbled somethig along the lines of wondering if the Jews nowdays continued animal sacrifice in the Temple would they be saved. I was quite shocked. I hear this “wondering” out loud often in his speaking, he certainly thinks outside the box.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> he certainly thinks outside the box.

    hahahha, that’s a good one.

  • cecilia

    >>> Among the men she influenced were Bill Bright, who later founded Campus Crusade for Christ Intl, and Billy Graham, who would later write, “I doubt if any other woman outside my wife and mother has had such a marked influence [on my life]. She is certainly one of the greatest Christians I have ever known!”

  • cecilia

    from the same page this shocking revelation:
    Her primary focus was on high school and college age youth. On any given Sunday, 500 avid college students would cram into the church. To expand her influence in young men’s lives, Mears established Forest Home Conference Center in the Southern California hills in 1939. Over the next 25 years, more than 400 young men would enter full-time Christian ministry due to the ministry of Mears at Forest Home.

  • bob

    “Billy Graham, who with Fuller, Ockenga, and Orr, taught at Mears Christian conference center, said that she had a great impact on his ministry. 11. Graham, considered an accepted evangelist by Mears, was among those trained and anointed at her conference center. Its important to note that many witnesses have testified that Billy Graham is a 33rd degree Mason.”

    Dr. Bob Klenck in a recent webcast stated that he suspects Mears was a lesbian.

    John Macarthur’s father was in Mears’ inner circle.

    Doesn’t Missler admit working for the CIA? He’s also a member of the Council for National Policy (CNP). This is a CFR front and an intelligence operation with members from the CIA. Who arguably controls the CNP? Sun Myung Moon, who considers himself to be the Messiah. And don’t forget Missler’s very close ties with Chuch Smith and the Calvary Chapels.

    Go to Koinonia House. Missler’s org. Check out its 990 form online. Who is listed as a director? Pat Matrisciana, another member of the CNP. He admits to having founded The Jesus People for the CIA. The Jesus People started the Calvary Chapel movement.

    Matrisciana founded the Christian World Liberation Front as a front for Campus Crusade which started in Mears’ living room.

    “Pat Matrisciana [CNP], president of Jeremiah Films and chairman of Citizens for Honest Government, an admission that the Jesus Revolution was masterminded by the CIA, and that he played a major role in this operation.

    “. . . . I shot it at him [Matrisciana]: “Are you Agency?”
    I meant, of course, was he from the Company. The good ol bad ol CIA. But this is, apparently, not considered a polite question, though god knows why not because before he answered he coughed, and looked surprised. Maybe he’s just not all that used to direct address. But at the end of the meal he said to me that for some reason he’d told me a lot more than he was planning to, so I guess it was a successful tactic.

    “I’ve been to Berkeley, too,” his reply began.

    “I was ‘detailed’ to Berkeley in 1965, to establish a countervailing force to Mario Savio’s Free Speech Movement. While there I founded the Campus Crusade for Christ.”

    And then it was his turn to grin: “I invented,” he told me proudly, “Jesus freaks.”. . .

    “I was detailed to Berkeley”

    For anyone who has ever suspected, in a dark paranoid moment, that our culture–especially in the 60’s–was somehow psycho-managed by the CIA, Matriciana’s offhand admission is enlightening, because it was clear he was in earnest, and I had no reason to doubt that he was telling me the truth. To me, its implications for the current scandal are staggering. Because Matriciana, when he made the Clinton Chronicles, wasn’t an independent producer toiling in anonymity. He was an intelligence operative for Richard Mellon Scaife, himself an intelligence operative, with longstanding ties to the Central Intelligence Agency. 13.
    [edited: link removed]

  • Jen

    SWANsat Project connected with Nepad Council……
    NEPAD council signed a MOU with SWANSAT Holdings in which the Council will support, promote the SWANSAT project and act as SWANsat liaison to the African Union. ….
    There’s lots to this – including getting us all microchipped

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    Imagine that!! Thanks for the INFO!!!

  • betsy

    SHAME on YOU… with all the real enemies out there you choose to go after brothers and sister! are you on satan’s payroll??

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    ahahahaha. LOL that was funny.

  • KLS (Taking On Timothy's Burden)

    We are told in the WORD that we will know God’s children by the fruit they bear (we are entitled to be fruit inspectors), not to be unequally yoked (that is NOT exclusive to marriage)and, to come out from amongst them (birds of a feather flock together, if you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas).

    God has spoken to my heart many times over the last 25 years and sends me on digs for the truth. Each time it seemed like each search was independent from the other. I have since learned they are all puzzle pieces that make a complete picture. WARNING: There are many false prophets in our world today and they bring you a message that is corrupted with Luciferian doctrine. It is the responsibility of all professed Christian’s to study to show ourselves approved. If someone that refers to themselves as a christian is associating with the enemy you better run the opposite direction.

    You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

  • Laurian

    WOW! Thanks for all the info On Missler, looks like the Lord is closing a door for our little bible study group, time to throw out the books and DVD’s etc. The Lord is amazing, He reveals to us the secrets such that we can continue on the wall with the Watchmen, even sharing with other watchmen. have you heard of Mike Hoggard , Deborah? see . He is a lovely King James man, our group have watched him for 3 yrs or more, worth a look.

    God bless, Laurian

  • Deborah (Discering the World)


    Dear Laurian (and others)…

    you know, there is something about this deception. It is everywhere! I’m happy that you are learning all you can about that and that this site is helpful to you in that endeavor. Please know, people are not necessarily who they present themselves to be, or who we think they are. I would suggest, that if your group would like to do a Bible study, that you simply use the Bible.

    Now, I would like to tell you my story (you can find other parts of my own deception experiences posted here (on the DTW site) at:

    I’m using part of an email I just sent to someone else (with some editing) wherein I share what I learned about Mike Hoggard. (I really labor to write, and this is just easier). It is long. Please bear with me (you too, Debs ;) I don’t mean to be a blog hog); this information needs to be revealed. I’ve been waiting on the Lord for the what, when, where and how. This seems to be it.

    In your words…Mike Hoggard “worth a look” – we thought so too. Here’s our story, which continues to sadden me…but there is a responsibility inherent in our experience, and a burden for and a love of the brethren…
    “…At the time that the Lord had shown me the error I had fallen into, and the unfaithful workers in His “field”, I had asked God to show me what other lies I had believed…that I wanted to know the truth about everything, and now, so as not to walk any longer in any lie. It was then I came across Mike Hoggard on Youtube, via a video called “The Occult in Christian Music”…I had NO idea!…at the end of that video the viewer was invited to call him, and let him know what they thought…so I did. We had a nice conversation, and he sent us videos. In light of the error I had just come out of, my husband and I were glad to find a preacher we could “trust.” After all, he was telling us the “truth”; and he was about MANY thing. It all sounded so right; we sat with our Bibles open and followed along.

    We emailed, and talked on the phone; we were on his watcher’s list and gave to his ministry; we had about a 1 1/2 year relationship, maybe 2 with him. We watched his videos, I watched his 2 web shows and interacted every Tues. and Thurs. Last year, we went to his church for his homecoming event. He even asked my husband and I to pray for him regarding a ministry opportunity he was provided with, saying he valued our input.

    Around this time is when I began to notice that some things just didn’t “add up”; were incongruent with what we thought we knew about him and his ministry. This was all going down in the month of November 2011. Learning to be observant, noting symbols, digging for info, (in addition to Scripture and the Holy Spirit) via Mike’s videos, God began to reveal the truth to me. So, I’ll just describe the various scenarios:

    Mike calls himself a watchman; exposing false teachers, teachings, symbols, etc…
    We were receiving another bogus “ministry’s” newsletters, and noticed that they were offering a book for a donation of a certain amount. The name of the book is “God’s Ghostbusters”(REALLY?)…it is a collaboration of several authors…one of which was Mike Hoggard, as well as Tom Horn, Chuck Missler and others.
    He did not mention at any time, or promote to his listeners this book. When I saw this, I thought, “oh no, he has no clue who Missler really is, or Tom Horn; if he did, he wouldn’t have anything to do with them.”…thinking he had innocently (how innocently does a watchman just “fall into something” – I wasn’t thinking that at the time!) gotten hooked up with men he doesn’t REALLY know. So, helpful me, I sent him the information on Chuck Missler that I had researched. I also sent the materials and documentation that William Saunders had put together. I had hoped with his platform and the DVDs he produces, he would sound the alarm…BUT…he did NOTHING with Missler – even though he is a “big fish” with influence in the lives of many! (as you have seen). He did, however, continue to expose the “crazy charismatics” and other regular offending apostates…BUT…SILENCE on Missler! These articles were full of the content he loves to expose – catholicism, new age, occult, freemasonry!?

    I talked to him about the cover of the book for “God’s Ghostbusters” you can go to this link to see for yourself
    You can also do your own research into the various other authors, who they are, and what their association/collaborations are, what they believe, where they went to school, etc. I have discovered that wolves travel in packs; even when wearing sheep’s clothing! And remember what Mike says, “wolves in sheep’s clothing, are not sheep” – he’s oh so right!

    About that cover – If you notice, from the info on his vids…the O with the cross inside it is a vulgar occult symbol…then, if you notice how the O with the cross in it is placed over the very large T beneath it, you can make out a “deconstructed” ankh…

    He told me he never read the book, and while on the phone with me, he went to take a look at the cover…saying “I wonder who did the cover?”…when he does his expose’s on false teachers, going to their website, books, movies, etc, examining logos and symbols….has he EVER said “I wonder who did the cover?”…NO…he calls it as he sees it. I had fully expected that a man well versed in occult symbolism, who teaches and exposes it, and has “truth” as his reputation would have been outraged that such symbolism would appear on any book he had had a part in….BUT HE WASN’T…WHY NOT?

    When he had asked for prayer regarding a conference he was asked to speak at this year (2012), I asked him by whom…he said Tom Horn…I relayed the message to my husband. It was hard, but I found this interview with Tom Horn years ago on a site called “The UFO Chronicles”…according to the interview, there were “extra-terrestrial visitations” that his sister had in her youth in their home. I sent him this information, but it did not alarm him. WHY NOT? He’s quick to reveal in other contexts that those types of events are visitations of demons. Looks like some kind of double standard here…no?

    Here is the link to that interview
    I have copy and pasted the article to my files, since links have a habit of disappearing as all this corruption is being exposed! If you need it, let me know.

    Our advice to him was that he not do the conference with Tom – who is also yoked to Chuck Missler, Chuck also being a member of the Council for National Policy (as well as many other ‘christian’ ‘leaders’ – another story, but VERY worth the time)…you can find information about that here, as well as on Debs’ site here by searching for the Council for National Policy. Another website provides the following synopsis of the CNP: ‘In the final analysis, the Council for National Policy, as an extension of the Religious Roundtable, is a joint venture of pseudo-Christian ministries, cults, secret societies, subversive organizations and corporate enterprise working together to exploit Christians to advance their anti-Christian agenda — Anglo-American imperialism and ultimately one world government under a one world religion — their own.’
    I sent Mike lots of info about them as well, and he didn’t want to do anything with it either, even though it is HUGE. BTW use of any site is for informational/research purposes only, and is not to be construed as an endorsement of any person, site or group by me – always check – do your own research!

    The last piece to this puzzle that God was unfolding to me, was when I was watching a video on his church website archives. They are loaded by a “company” called “sure Y not”…I got to looking at that logo and wondered if there was any occult significance to the Y, since it’s placement was prominent, and I had been “taught” to examine these things. So I googled it, and found there was occult significance, something about “union with divinity” of some kind…as I went back to the site, my eyes fell upon the “About Us” tab on the bottom of the page. This “About Us” is about the “sure Y not” people. I understand this person (via Mike) to be Jazz, who presents herself as a “christian” webmaster who “volunteered” to help “pastor” Mike get his message out.

    I was alarmed by what I saw, and sent the following email to “pastor” Mike….

    On Nov 23, 2011, at 11:56 AM, marion wrote:
    “Hey Pastor Mike…how ya’ doin’?…You know what? I got to looking at the sure Y not sign where your videos are archived…make me curious…looked up significance of the Y in occult circles…then…I really got curious and on the archive page…way at the bottom there is an “About” sure Y not tab…I’m betting you never took a look at that…WOW…it took my breath away…
    take a look

    We wish you and your family a blessed and happy Thanksgiving celebration!…John and Marion”
    AT this point, I suggest you do the following:

    go to

    click on the Video Archive tab…
    notice the sure Y not logo on the upper left hand of the page
    NOW scroll down to the “About Us” tab
    what do you see?….a new age/occult manifesto!
    Mike’s response to me:

    Subject: Re: have you ever noticed?
    From: kingjamescode***** (“pastor”} Mike’s email address edited for privacy)
    Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:54:38 -0600
    To: m

    Hey Marion, sureynot is owned and was started by our webmaster, Jazz. She specializes in web design and the y in the logo is nothing more than a letter, no occult significance. For something to be truly occult, there must be a hidden meaning or agenda. This is not the case with her.
    His response did not seem right…if he had looked at the material I suggested, he would have seen that the Y was certainly hiding something…nice try Mike! Either he didn’t look, or was evade the issue. So I got my husband involved.
    From: marion
    Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 10:24 AM
    To: Pastor Mike Hoggard
    Subject: RE: have you ever noticed?

    Pastor Mike: John here. Marion showed this correspondence to me.
    I would like to know 1. did you go to the sureYnot archive page and read the “About us” tab like Marion suggested
    2. if you did not, would you please
    3. please respond

    Thank you
    From: kingjamescode

    To: m
    Subject: RE: have you ever noticed?
    Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:53:49 -0600

    Hey John, I spoke to Jazz just a moment ago and she agreed to discuss this with you. She plans on emailing you guys sometime next week on it. I felt since it was her website, she should be the one to answer any concerns you have. I am sending her a copy of this email so she will have your email address. Her email address is [Email address removed]

    I hope this helps your concerns.

    Love you guys
    next email from my husband:

    From: marion
    Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:07 PM
    To: Pastor Mike Hoggard
    Subject: RE: have you ever noticed?

    Hey Mike: No, this does not answer my concerns.
    You still did not answer the question I asked.
    Did you read the “About Us” – that is my question for you.
    I’m not asking for you to explain it – since it’s not yours. I don’t need Jazz to explain it.

    I’ve asked you to read it and comment.
    Please do.

    From: kingjamescode
    To: m
    Subject: RE: have you ever noticed?
    Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:02:54 -0600

    i don’t like it


    My last comment to “pastor” Mike Hoggard was simply,

    “Looks like people aren’t necessarily who we think they are…huh?”
    and we never heard from him again. They last heard from me to remove us from their mailing list via phone. Oh, and we never heard from Jazz, either.

    AGAIN…where was the righteous indignation that “Jazz” had pretended to be a “christian” and was actually an agent of the enemy??????!!!!!!!!! hmmmm…

    The links and creepy “Spiritual Conspiracy” are still posted on their site…hidden in plain site…(look like that “Y” IS an occult symbol after all) isn’t that how it’s done? Thinking no one will find them out…BUT my faithful, Good Shepherd did!…and what could I do?…and they know it…but I asked the LORD…and now the time has come…and you and others can know the truth. {BTW…the info may disappear, if it does, ask me…I’ve copy and pasted it and a friend has a screen shot.}

    And I haven’t even addressed here, his unbiblical teachings and obsession with the whole DNA thing…(part of a developing strong delusion)…

    Have you wondered why he always has a copy of “Morals and Dogma”, Dan Brown’s “The Lost Symbol” and Marilyn Ferguson’s “The Aquarian Conspiracy” on his desk? We believe that it is because he references them in his discussions…and he does!….BUT could it be that they are a signal, that “HERE WE ARE”???? “WE HAVE A FOLLOWING”??? “WE ARE IMPLEMENTING ‘THE PLAN’???…THE corrupt satanic infiltration into the pulpits of America and around the world? I also have come to believe that what his material does is “initiate” the unsuspecting true Christians into the “ancient mysteries”, of which they would otherwise be unawares, under the guise of educating us to the ways of the enemy of our souls, to enable us to be “watchmen”. AND I did become aware…and God used it to uncover evil…but, at the same time, God’s people become defiled, by having paraded in front of our eyes, into our ears, hearts and minds, things we would ordinarily not have anything to do with, retreat from; even occult ways and practices….but in the desire to “KNOW”…

    We considered him a “friend” a “brother in the Lord”…we were duped (deceived)…again.

    My prayer was, “Lord, we know the truth, but what can we do? . We are just 2 people…we have no way to get the word out to the others who have been deceived.” (and they know, there is nothing we can do with what we know; but we know these things for His reasons) And now, God has answered; he has made a way! And now, people will know. ALL GLORY AND HONOR AND PRAISE BE TO HIM ALONE…WHO REVEALS THE TRUTH TO THOSE WHO WILL HUMBLY SEEK HIM, AND LOVE THE TRUTH!

    “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” (Col 2:8)

    “”Beloved, when I gave all dilligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
    For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Jude3-4)

    There is a lot of information here…about many things…look into these things. Remember Jeremiah 17:9-10 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”
    As you can see, we’ve had our own “deaths” of relationship…LHT, Roger, Mike…the deception is deep and wide! Who are these men and what is their agenda? Only God knows…but we have examined their lives, connections and fruit, and something is very wrong. Examining their teachings – now that is another very big job!

    Narrow is the way…”

  • Redeemed

    Marian, wow, what an amazing expose on Hoggard! I only recently became aware of him and his wide influence. He appeals to many of the KJV-only folks who fail to look past that and all the surface truth he promotes.

    You speak from experience and now have the opportunity to alert others. I hope Lauren heeds your warning.

    I hope you have shared this with Joetta Smith, the dear lady who ministers in Kenya and was apparently thrown under the bus by LHT/UTT. She links to Hoggard on her site.

    These are perilous times indeed when truth is being used as a cloak for darkness – no doubt that is what the Bible refers to as an “angel of light”. The Word tells us to be on guard, be alert, but sheep are gullible and stray so oh how are TRUE watchpeople needed! And there are even impostors posing as watchpeople! And these are even harder to detect!

    Thanks for sharing!

  • Marion

    ABSOLUTELY! It was part of a letter I sent to her! That is how this expose’ happened. I had known that Mike had gone down to Kenya to “minister” just like Roger Oakland in partnership with Lighthouse Trails. Just a few days before Joetta’s comment was posted, my thoughts went to Joetta – wolves had come into her camp – unbeknowst to her. My prayer was, Lord, she needs to know these things, and then, her comment was posted…she at least knew about Roger and LHT…(DO see the continuing expose’ of them related to Joetta’s story at But, she also needed to know about Mike. I don’t remember how I found a way to reach her – obviously searching the net…

    Then I saw Laurian’s comment…the door was open; the Lord was showing me that although I have no blog (and the “big name”, “known” “discernment” (?) “ministries”(?) now known to be corrupt themselves, for they fail to warn of those with whom they are obviously connected, could not be counted on to reveal this story),or any other way to get this warning out, now was the time, and THIS was the how and I already knew what needed to be shared. These wolves think they can get away with their evil, and no one will find out. But some will!

    Did you go to the Bethel site like I suggested, and read the “About Us” tab on the bottom of the video archive page? It will make your skin crawl. It is still up there. (go get your screen shots before the site is scrubbed to share with others) Mike knew we found him out, but probably believed there was nothing we could do about it? But God is the one who reveals the hidden things, and He makes the way for His people to be warned, if we but seek Him! Truly, in these perilous times there is a deceiver for every “flavor” of ‘christianity’.

    Yes, you are right; there are unfaithful watchmen. Many of those who are exposing, are seen as the good guys who can be trusted, who are merely there to lead…but where?…as sheep to the slaughter; ah, but it is hidden. There are very few who are true and faithful watchmen!

    So, take in the warnings, but put your trust in no man, and verify, verify, verify!

    “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked, who can know it?
    I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doing.” (Jeremiah 17:9-10)

    Thanks and praise be to God who rescues His children!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> Did you go to the Bethel site like I suggested, and read the About Us tab on the bottom of the video archive page? It will make your skin crawl.

    You are so right, this is an occult manifesto…. gave me the shivers. And Mike does not seem to bothered by this.

    About Us

    A Spiritual Conspiracy

    On the surface of the world right now, there is war and violence and things seem dark.
    But calmly and quietly, at the same time, something else is happening underground.
    An inner revolution is taking place and certain individuals are being called to a higher light.
    It is a silent revolution.
    From the inside out. From the ground up.
    This is a Global operation.
    A Spiritual Conspiracy.
    There are sleeper cells in every nation on the planet.
    You won’t see us on the T.V.
    You won’t read about us in the newspaper.
    You won’t hear about us on the radio.
    We don’t seek any glory.
    We don’t wear any uniform.
    We come in all shapes and sizes, colours and styles.
    Most of us work anonymously.
    We are quietly working behind the scenes in every country and culture of the world,
    Cities big and small, mountains and valleys, in farms and villages, tribes and remote islands.
    You could pass by one of us on the street and not even notice.
    We go undercover.
    We remain behind the scenes.
    It is of no concern to us who takes the final credit, but simply that the work gets done.
    Occasionally, we spot each other in the street,
    We give a quiet nod and continue on our way.
    During the day, many of us pretend we that have normal jobs, but behind the false store front at night is where the real work takes place.
    Some call us the Conscious Army.
    We are slowly creating a new world with the power of our minds and hearts.
    We follow, with passion and joy, our orders that come from from the Central Spiritual Intelligence.
    We are dropping soft, secret, love bombs when no one is looking:
    Poems ~ Hugs ~ Music ~ Photography ~ Movies ~ Kind Words ~ Smiles ~ Meditation and Prayer ~ Dance ~ Social Activism ~ Websites ~ Blogs ~ Random Acts of Kindness…
    We each express ourselves in our own unique ways, with our own unique gifts and talents.
    “Be the change you want to see in the world,” that is the motto that fills our hearts.
    We know it is the only way real transformation takes place.
    We know that quietly and humbly, we have the power of all the oceans combined.
    Our work is slow and meticulous, like the formation of mountains.
    It is not even visible at first glance.
    And yet, with it, entire tectonic plates shall be moved in the centuries to come.
    Love is the new religion of the 21st century.
    You don’t have to be a highly educated person or have any exceptional knowledge to understand it.
    It comes from the intelligence of the heart.
    Embedded in the timeless, evolutionary pulse of all human beings.
    Be the change you want to see in the world.
    Nobody else can do it for you.
    We are now recruiting.
    Perhaps you will join us, or already have.
    All are welcome,
    The door is open.

    ~ Author Unknown ~

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    Something interesting… on the front page of it says…

    Welcome to Bethel – Church… the way it used to be
    Welcome to the Bethel Church Web Site. Bethel is a loving, friendly church where you will find acceptance. We follow the old paths and are a King James Bible Church where you will be taught the Truth of God’s Holy Word. We are so very pleased you are visiting with us via the world wide web. If you are able to visit in person, you will be greeted with a warm welcome.

    “We follow the old paths” ?? OLD and MANY PATHS? You gotta be kidding! This is occult.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    An exhaustive article on the occult teachings of Mike Hoggard…

    Mike Hoggard – Anti-apostasy Teacher or the Next Harold Camping?

    WARNING by DTW: The author of this article’s doctrine on the Nephilim is very dangerous. Please read here for correct biblical Nephilim doctrine.

    Lately a friend introduced me to the teachings of Pastor Mike Hoggard. She had been listening to him, and was very impressed by the stand that he took against all the apostate things that are going on in the church. To his credit, he believes that the KJV is the only accurate English translation of the Bible, which I have shown to be true in my article on the KJV Bible. He teaches against contemplative prayer, which I have yet to address, but which I agree is a real danger to Christians. He teaches against rock music in the church and a number of other things that have infiltrated, which I also agree are bad. He also teaches a lot about the Masons and other occult teachings. It is good for people to be made aware of these things. In short, a great deal of what he teaches is good for people to know. He is attracting a bigger and bigger following, especially with people who are fed up with the apostasy in the church and are looking for some good old-fashioned Bible preaching. So what is the problem? The problem is, in the midst of gathering a major audience of Christians who are looking for someone to lead them out of apostasy, and are following him because of the strong stand he takes against apostasy, he is slowly and subtly introducing to them teachings that are not Scriptural. Because they are such little things within his sermons, nobody notices or gives it much thought, or they just let it pass like a blip on the screen, but when added up, it comes to a lot of things that are not correct. I also have concerns about the way he approaches his study of the Scripture, as well as the way he teaches it. I honestly see the beginnings of another Harold Camping in the making given enough time. I hope to show why I make that statement in the course of this article.

    One of the first things I noticed was that he preaches about getting revelation (meaning special revealed knowledge of hidden things) from the Bible. Naturally studying the Bible is going to bring knowledge. Knowledge about God, knowledge about Christ, knowledge about how we should walk and behave, etc. He is against using man’s commentaries to learn what God teaches. I agree. I believe that we should allow God to teach us by studying God’s Word verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book, comparing passages that speak to the same subject. Pastor Hoggard however seems to believe that God teaches you by revelation. By that I am gathering that he means that he’ll look at a passage and have some sort of epiphany that shows him some secret piece of information, as what he teaches is not stuff that can be had from a simple literal reading of the Word.

    Concerning the subject of revelation Hoggard has made several statements that bother me. First he talks about the concept that the getting of revelation comes with a price. He says, There’s a price [for having this stuff revealed to you]. He says that it comes with a thorn. In other words, if you go looking to study God’s Word and have Him show you what His Word says, you had better be prepared to pay a steep price for it. His statements seemed aimed more at preventing people from studying God’s Word rather than encouraging them. He implies that you shouldn’t do it unless you are willing to suffer some consequences. In fact he basically makes a threat against you if he finds out you are trying to study it. He says, I pray for all of God’s people who really have this thirst for knowledge and wisdom and they want these revelations from the bible and they want to study more and they want to know more. I’m going to pray that if necessary God will give you a massive thorn in your flesh. Not just a thorn but a massive one? How nice of him. This is supposedly to prevent people from getting arrogant. So according to Hoggard, studying God’s Word to learn what it says will make you arrogant. So does that mean basically you are better not studying? And if you do and he finds out, he is going to pray against you to ask God to make you suffer for learning what God wants you to know? Why on earth would anybody do that? Continue to read here:

  • I’ve also read the About us of sureynot …
    it gives me goosebumps.
    What can be more occultic than that?

    God help us and save those who truly seek you!

  • Marion

    Wonderful job Debs! I revealed what I knew about the man and his connections, and occult involvement, and didn’t even begin to examine the teachings!

    In regard to this statement, that you refer to on his home page:

    We follow the “old paths” and are a King James Bible Church where you will be taught the Truth of Gods Holy Word. We are so very pleased you are visiting with us via the world wide web. If you are able to visit in person, you will be greeted with a warm welcome.

    He has said, and we understood that to mean the “old paths” (not the “ancient paths”), as opposed to the “new” and “improved” mystical/emergent church, which IS biblical (I mean the old paths); but clearly hiding his own “esoteric” meanings! How good of you to catch that one!

    “Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.” (Jeremiah 6:16)

    [Edited by DTW: Yes, in the OT it would have been referred to as “old paths’, but when Jesus came in the NT there is One Gospel and 1 NARROW path to follow in which Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.]

    BTW…did you catch the stylized W he uses on the logo for the “Watchman Broadcast”? It is a masonic signature…I came across that info while doing research…ah, the subtilty of the enemy!

  • Redeemed

    Marian, have your received a response from Mama Joetta Smith regarding Hoggard? Did she receive the warnings?

    This is just mindboggling!!

    Another discerner clued me in on Hoggard recently and was concerned that a supposed discernment site was promoting Hoggard. But I had no clue of the intensely wicked depth. One has to wonder if he is deceived or if he is fully aware of what he is into.

  • Marion

    Yes, I did get a response from her, and she is as shocked as the rest of us.

    Does Mike know what he is into? I believe he does, and that his desire is to deceive…remember the”About Us” tab on the sure Y not site…when I referred him to it, he either didn’t read it (even though I said in my initial email about it: Im betting you never took a look at thatWOWit took my breath away
    take a look), OR…he was evading the issue and did not want to answer us – take another look at his responses. If you were a “pastor” and exposer of deception, wouldn’t you take a look at something that took someone’s breath away on your own website and deal with it? You see how things just didn’t “make sense”?

    I found this part of the “About Us” particularly disturbing…

    “We are quietly working behind the scenes in every country and culture of the world,
    Cities big and small, mountains and valleys, in farms and villages, tribes and remote islands.
    You could pass by one of us on the street and not even notice.
    We go undercover.
    We remain behind the scenes.
    It is of no concern to us who takes the final credit, but simply that the work gets done.
    Occasionally, we spot each other in the street,
    We give a quiet nod and continue on our way.
    During the day, many of us pretend we that have normal jobs, but behind the false store front at night is where the real work takes place.
    Some call us the Conscious Army.
    We are slowly creating a new world with the power of our minds and hearts.”

    …pretending!!!…..pastors??? BTW…it is STILL up there!
    Not so surprising…just read the book of Jude!…Debs, herself, has unmasked many…but there are far too many of them!

    We in the Christian community have been quite naive and trusting, even gullible. I find that although I believe God’s Word, I have discovered that I (we) haven’t really believed (understood?) it to the depths that God intended. When He says,

    “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (1 Jn. 5:19)

    Do we REALLY understand that the WHOLE WORLD LIETH IN WICKEDNESS?

    In light of all I’ve learned in the past 2 1/2 years; it’s not that I don’t believe/trust people, I believe what someone “says” while “WATCHING”. We ought give people the benefit of the doubt, but with wisdom…not as gullible.
    The truth is, as Christians, most of us do not understand the depths of Satan or deception…it is far from our lives (hopefully), and is not generally how we operate…as it ought to be!

    “The simple believeth every word; but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” (Proverbs 14:15)

    We believe this or that person or thing is good. When Jesus says, “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:…” (Matt. 19:17) We believe everyone who calls themselves a Christian is.

    And of course, my latest standby – when I “think” I know someone, I’m reminded that we CANNOT know men…even when we think we do…

    “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?
    I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.” (Jeremiah 17:19-20)

    Remember Judas? He was one of the twelve, yet no one EVER suspected he would betray the Lord. WHY? His “appearance” denied the reality of who he was!

    That is why with the Psalmist we need to pray:

    “Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” (Psalm 139:23-24)

    “Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.” (Psalm 51:10)

    And Lord, show me what is the truth in all things; reveal the hidden things (not secret knowledge, but the things the evil deceivers are trying to hide).

    What I’ve discovered, is we cannot know the truth about many things in our world, but we can always know TRUTH…God has given us His word, and His Holy Spirit to guide us into All truth!

    A final word of encouragement:

    “Finally my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
    Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
    Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
    And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace:
    Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
    And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
    Praying always, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; (Ephesians 5:11-18)

  • Paul

    I would suggest you put a warning besides the link to the article exposing the occult of Mike Hoggard’s teachings.
    The author’s doctrine about the Nephilim is very dangerous. I wrote the following comment on her article. You can see her response at the end of her article. Please pray for her.

    June 12, 2012 11:14 AM
    I started reading your article on Hoggard and I had to stop reading when I got to the section where you say:
    “the whole idea of the angels having procreated with man before and after the Flood, and most probably continuing to do so, need not be discovered through revelations about a Satanic book. It is taught straight out in the Bible without having to go through all this hoopla…”

    I couldn’t continue reading because you are completely deceived about this.
    Please read this article and get out of that doctrine of demons:

    Grace and Peace

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    Oh good call, I didn’t read the whole thing, just did a quick scan thought it. Thank you for putting the link there.

  • Paul

    Debs, I would suggest you put a warning besides the link to the article exposing the occult teachings of Mike Hoggard.
    The author’s doctrine on the Nephilim is very dangerous.
    I’ve posted a comment on her article and pointed her to your article
    She responded by dismissing my comment and your article.
    Please pray for her. She is very deceived.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    Oh crickey. I will indeed put a warning there……. Ok DONE.

    Thanks for trying to warn her. It seems to be the in thing these days for blogs to just delete your first comment and never let your have any say. It shows their weakness in not being able to debate/argue biblically. Which means there is a problem. I at least let people have their say, to a point – (can’t have this blog running amok with strange peeps, so I have to keep it under control).

  • Den

    Hi Marion,

    Interestingly I happened on this site doing some research on Chuck Missler and his associations with Sun Myung Moon when I caught the name Mike Hoggard in your post. I believe I met you and John there at Bethel Church as I have been going there once a month since May of 2011. Don’t be too hard on Mike over Jazz’s website because she contacted him and volunteered to be his webmaster and to host his videos. I was a member of the Watchman community which is a paid forum style community formed and run by Jazz.

    I had contact with Jazz on several occasions while I was there and I could sense that she didn’t like me from our conversations and the Christian atmosphere just wasn’t there. After reading her About Us page I can now see why – truly sad. I remember in my email conversations with her I asked her where she went to church and she said that she didn’t go and that Mike was her pastor. I know for certain that he has no control over her website and at least at the time when I was there she was working for free. Hopefully, now that this is out in the open he can find a Christian webmaster to host his site…

    So don’t be too hard on Mike because of Jazz being New Age. We all choose what we want to belief. As far as Mike being caught up the
    Nephilim/Fallen Angels-Human Hybrids doctrine
    – Mike is not alone as it is a common teaching in Theosophy, Secret Societies, New Agers and unfortunately for many Christian’s today. Hopefully he will see the connection and change his views on Genesis 6. Either way sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. Mike is a good man so pray for him and Jazz as well that she will take heed to his teachings because Mike has many, many good points in his Watchman broadcasts.

    Chuck Missler, well he is a whole other ball of wax…


  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    Thanks for your comment

    However… as a pastor he should be squeeky clean, he is the one that teaches others and God will hold him accountable for this.

    >> Either way sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

    Never. You can not agree to disagree on false doctrine. Can you imagine Jesus saying…

    1Tim 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
    1Tim 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    2Tim 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    2Tim 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
    2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    But you know what? … because you only teach a little bit of leaven we will just argree to disagree, we can work around the problematic areas and find common ground.


    You see, the Holy Spirit guides all Christians into ALL TRUTH, not TRUTH and ERROR.

    The church is in the state it is in because everyone insists on agreeing to disagree, instead of following scripture, following God’s commandments, which states that you are to follow the Word of God and if you are not then you are not being guided by the Holy Spirit.

    >> Mike is a good man so pray for him and Jazz as well that she will take heed to his teachings because Mike has many, many good points in his Watchman broadcasts

    1) Jazz is an undercover New Age Change Agent as explained in her Manifesto and has infiltrate Mikes ministry and has no intention of changing her ways.
    2) Mike is possibly not who he says he is and has allowed Jazz to infiltrate him and even after he was warned about her, he ignored the warning – he did nothing to change webmasters.

  • Den

    Hi Deborah,

    I can agree with what you are saying. With that said it is safe to say that none of us are perfect (surely you can agree with that), there has been only One who is squeaky clean and He was crucified for all of our sins. Past, present, and future. The Kingdom of God doesn’t dwell in buildings made of wood, brick, stone, or in enlightenment. The Kingdom of God dwells within His children and they make up His church – surely you can agree with that. I don’t know Jazz’s heart and her manifesto is clearly New Age but opinions change and people can change. Only God knows the heart of a man (or woman) and whether they will turn to Him sometime in their life. All I’m saying is give Mike a chance to make things right and pray for both him and Jazz. Deb that is not compromise but as a blood bought child of the Living God its the least we can do.

    The Nephilim, Fallen Angels, Aliens etc have infiltrated most all beliefs today and of course they should be rejected. These teachings have no salvation value and are nothing more than Occult Mysticism. All I’m saying is don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. God is still able make a wrong right. I know my righteousness is as filthy rags, how about you?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> With that said it is safe to say that none of us are perfect (surely you can agree with that)

    Now you are bringing humanism into the equation. Non of us are perfect when it comes to sin, because we are sinners, but when it comes to the gospel we are commanded to keep to the truth and the Holy Spirit will guide us into ALL TRUTH.

    John 16:13; “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. ”

    John 15:10 Jesus said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 14:15; John 14:21; John 14:23; 1John 5:3;)

    Mike has a chance to make things right, and I pray he does like I pray everyone who follows false teaching makes right with the Lord.

    However there comes a time where you need to draw the line, especially because he is a minister which means he knows way more than your ordinary little sheep.

  • Den

    Hi Deb,

    Thank you for that. Let’s just pray for them that God’s will be done in their lives. Trust me I have a line I won’t cross. I know who I am in Christ Jesus. Your humanism response made me smile. I’ve done much study on modern day Humanism. Not so Deb.

    Marion, I don’t know if you are still monitoring this thread but if you are I just want to say it was a pleasure meeting you and John and hope to meet you again someday. Deb gave some mighty fine scriptures above which are close to my heart. Please let me add Matthew 22: Master, which is the great commandment in the Law? Jesus said to him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and the great commandment. And the second is like unto this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hangeth the whole Law and the Prophets.

    You all have a Blessed Sunday…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    If you love Jesus with all your heart and all your soul, you will automatically love your neighbor and preach the truth.

    2 John 1:5 “And now I beseech you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
    2 John 1:6 “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”

    Walking in God’s commandments and loving your neighbor are mutually inclusive – the one cannot happen without the other.

    Thanks Den, I think I like you :) in a Christian neighborly sorta way :P

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    I also want to mention that it’s not just his incorrect interpretation of scripture re the Nephillim that Mike has to worry about but his fascination with finding Code in the Bible of which he has written a book. He also appears to be into numerology which is of the occult.

    So right now it’s not looking very good for ol’ Mike.

  • Den

    Well, Thank you Deb for your kindness. You have my contact information if I can ever help you in anyway. I personally have never been into Prophetic Profiles and Time lines or ELS – Letter Skip Sequencing, etc – although interesting none of them are necessary to walk the path that God has for us in this day… Mikes not into Numerology or other occult influence of numbers on human affairs except to expose them. He uses a cheap $10 search program from Walmart. Type in a word and the program tells you how many times it is used in the KJV bible. He gave me one but I couldn’t use it because it is for a 32 bit operating system and mine is 64 bit. I’ve never read his book on the King James Code.

    Have you ever watched a Watchman Video Broadcast? The new one should be coming out this evening and you can watch it at:

    No secret Vodo I promise…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> Type in a word and the program tells you how many times it is used in the KJV bible

    What for? That is a type of numerology.

    You aint gonna persuade me to side with Mike until he changes his ways. If I watch his video(s) I will “Tests the Spirits” as per 1 John 4 and he might come of worse off than before I watched the video.

    I see on your website Mike is one of the whistle blowers, along some other strange characters (Jack Chick (fraud) , Charles W. Frank (Dominionist), Fritz Springmeier (Dominionist) , is this why you are trying so hard to defend him? He is on your website?

  • John Chingford

    Den. I did an expose on Mike Hoggard on my blog. Especially revealing are within the comments section. If you consider the material there I am sure you too will be convinced to be wary of Mike Hoggard’s teachings. Here is the link

  • Den

    Hi Deb,

    So what you are saying is a person should never use numbers to identify words in the bible? How many times Salvation is mentioned in the New Testament is witchcraft? This is what he does Deb and I see no harm or evil in doing that. Of course you should test the Spirits – we all should. Although I haven’t watched it yet this weeks video is a good one for you to tear into as the name of it is ‘Astrology and Observing Times’. Here’s the link: Chew up the meat and spit out the bones and see what you come up with…

    I take it that you don’t like Jack Chick. If you visited my Whistle blowers page then chances are you also read the descriptions of them (I am to blame). Maybe you know something about him that I should know perhaps? Jack Chick was added as a honorable mention along with John Todd another controversial person.

    Just out of curiosity where did you hear of Charles W. Frank as he is relatively unknown outside of the one book that he wrote called the House of Lords and what makes you believe he is a Dominionist? You have me scratching my head on that one.

    Fritz Springmeier is a lot of things but one thing he is not in my opinion is political. My opinion is he – much like John Todd has done much to expose the Occult secrets societies which are in control of our world today.

    If you read the top paragraph of the Whistle blowers page you will see that I have no affiliations with any of Whistle blowers (faces) on my site – and that includes Mike Hoggard. I did visit his church once a month for a little over a year but had very little contact with him outside of shaking his hand, a two sentence conversation and saying amen every once in a while. I sat on the back row, minded my own business and kept my big mouth shut. lol

    Personally I like Mike and when I saw Marion’s comments here on your site I thought I would stop in and talk with her. Mike is a big man and able to take care of himself and I’m sure he is well accustomed to criticism. So watch his video and then decide for yourself on where you stand with him. Deb, it’s much better than second hand information from Marion, myself, or anyone else.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> saying is a person should never use numbers to identify words in the bible? How many times Salvation is mentioned in the New Testament …?

    What for?

    >> Chew up the meat and spit out the bones and see what you come up with

    Now, we do not ‘chew up the meat and spit out the bones’. No where in the bible are we told to do this. When we find false teaching we spit it out, the whole thing Gal 5:9 “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” and we mark those who cause division and stay away from them. Rom 16:17 “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” (Col 2:8; Titus 3:10; 2John 1:10; Matt 18:17; 2Thess 3:6; 2Tim 3:5)

    >> Just out of curiosity where did you hear of Charles W. Frank….and what makes you believe he is a Dominionist?

    It says he is a dominionist on, it says, “Based out of Washington State is an Independent Newspaper writer and author of the book House of Lords – America in the Balance. Chuck’s focus is on the American Constitution and it’s restoration back to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to American citizen’s and their posterity.

    As you know… Yes, a Future Kingdom, but Not a Kingdom Now

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Marion wrote via email:


    Den…do check out this further expose’ of Mike.

    NOW tell me what you saw there… [Deb’s note: The reference to the Matrix (NWO), the Matrix numbers (11), APOSTLE Stan and the Sword (Give AWAY), Solomns Keys! What does Mike know about The Lesser or Greater Keys of Solomon to teach on them?? And WHAT FOR? Only an ex occultist (which he is not) or someone delving into the occult nowwould know this stuff, etc, etc, etc. What would a so called man of God be doing reading into the grand grimoire, one of the most famous and outrageous books of black magic and informing the Christian public about it. Where in the Bible does it tell us to do this? No where.]

    Clearly Mike promotes himself as an “expert” who “teaches” others the meaning of symbolism and numerology from the occult under the guise of being “watchmen”. But the Bible says that we are to “watch” for the sword…not look into these matters. I think we need to be aware and able to recognize what is Luciferian when we see it. Mike, however, is initiated others (especially Christians) into the occult mysteries…whereby they become defiled both in mind and spirit. God does not desire for us to have the “knowledge of evil”, and it is forbidden…which Mike is eager to impart to his “watchers.”

    Your appeal to “give him time” to work it out…REALLY? What’s to work out? I had these discussions going back to Nov. with him and he blew off our concerns and left questions unanswered. We expected better of him. Mike has made no “mistakes” here, but has purposed to intentionally deceive the flock of God (and anyone else he can along the way). There is no defense for this.

    Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    Ye shall know them by their fruits…” (Matt. 7:15-16a) Being he knows all about the symbols, numbers and signals, what are they doing ALL OVER his own material? (occult fruit!) He never counted on the “education” he passed on to others, to be used to take a look at him. He has been found out, period.

    You agree there’s something wrong with Chuck Missler? You do well. Do you know I had been giving Mike the information concerning this “big wolf” since October 2011? Where is the expose’ he did on him? That’s right…there was NONE. But of course, he’ll do Perry Stone, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, etc., cause we all “know” the charismatics have it wrong!

    TO TOP IT OFF…He just did that Prophecy Conference in Missouri with who? Amongst other pseudo ‘christians’…Chuck Missler.

    So save the fuzzy-feeling “love” talk. And start loving others BIBLICALLY…and don’t be afraid to take an objective look at WHOEVER is “teaching” God’s Word, even those you “know personally”; unless of course your defense is evidence of being a part of the “covert team”.

    “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them.
    For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.” (Eph. 5:11-12)

    Mike Hoggard is a false teacher and the about us on Jazz’s sure Y not site exposes who and what they both are – LUCIFERIANS in the church!…AND I would even say that Bethel Church is a “front” for their nefarious agenda…

    and sadly…there are many, MANY others!

    excerpt from the “About Us” above

    “You could pass by one of us on the street and not even notice.
    We go undercover.
    We remain behind the scenes.
    It is of no concern to us who takes the final credit, but simply that the work gets done.
    Occasionally, we spot each other in the street,
    We give a quiet nod and continue on our way.
    During the day, many of us pretend we that have normal jobs, but behind the false store front at night is where the real work takes place.
    Some call us the Conscious Army.”

  • Den

    Hi Deb,

    Sorry about the chew up the meat slang, it’s just an old Missouri saying and not scriptural. You have a very nice site and I can see you have worked very hard on it – good job. As far as Charles Frank that was my fault as well as he has no connection to my site or ability to write his own review. I am the one who wrote his description. I met him much the same way I met you as I was doing research on the underlying powers of the one world order and thought he could use some support in his efforts. Truthfully, I believe his efforts have little to no hope in materializing but we’ll see.

    May I ask you a personal question? Where do you live? I only ask because the description of Charles Frank was just copied and pasted (by me) from the preamble of the Constitution of the United States at Cornell University. Charles is just a Constitutionalist who hasn’t yet come to the reality of Global government – yet… So Deb, what preachers and teachers do you consider to be squeaky clean and worth listening to? Can you give some names?

    Hi John,

    Very nice to meet you again, (you are Marion’s husband I hope) sorry it’s under these circumstances. I’m pretty sure I met you and Marion there at Bethel but only going once a month I could possibly have missed you all. I took a look at your blog. John I can really see a hatred for Mike Hoggard there that I don’t have for him. Just being honest with you John. For Mike’s sake I hope you are wrong, for your sake I hope you are right. Either way I will stay out of the controversy. Jazz’s demons are her own and I would not want to intentionally harm Mike Hoggard’s ministry anymore than I would want to harm Deb’s Ministry here.

    I want to thank you all for taking the time to chat with me the last couple of days, I appreciate that and again Deb you have a very nice site – Keep it up. Unfortunately for me the topic is placing me out of character so if you all would allow me to leave you with a touch of the Apostle Paul, Romans and the Geneva Bible. I will close out on my part and end this as a gentleman who Love’s you all.

    Bless them which persecute you: bless, I say, and curse not. Rejoice with them that rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be like affectioned one towards another: be not high-minded: but make yourselves equal to them of the lower sort: be not wise in yourselves. Recompense to no man evil for evil: procure things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as in you is, have peace with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him: if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with goodness.

    I’ll check back with you Deb from time to time and see how you are doing – don’t forget to give me some of your favorite preachers and teachers.


  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    I am all the way in deepest darkest Africa on the southern most part called South Africa :)

    There are many good preachers, Dave Hunt for one, Mike Oppenheimer, (for now, until I find something that proves otherwise) etc, etc, etc.

    I must say, your comment, “what preachers and teachers do you consider to be squeaky clean and worth listening to?” (squeaky clean equates to adhering to the truth and NOT FOLLOWING OCCULT TEACHING etc) I must say I usually get that question from NAR followers…

    And there is NO Hatred by anyone here for Mike Hoggard, By openly exposing his false teaching, does not mean we hate him, yes we dislike the ERROR he preaches. Only someone who does not understand the Gospel would say something like that you did.

    And what is love Den? I say it again…

    If you love Jesus with all your heart and all your soul, you will automatically love your neighbor and preach the truth.

    2 John 1:5 And now I beseech you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
    2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

  • Den

    Africa, wow that explains the constitution question. Isn’t South Africa still owned by the Queen? Ha, just kidding. Yes, I like Dave Hunt, Mr Oppenheimer is a new one and I’ll check him out and I have never heard of NAR, but the squeaky clean quote – came from you. :)

    “However as a pastor he should be squeeky clean, he is the one that teaches others and God will hold him accountable for this.”

    Sorry Deb, I saw no love for Mike Hoggard on John’s website and yes, I do know what Love is.

    Have a Blessed Day (or night)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> Isnt South Africa still owned by the Queen?

    Used to be, now we are quite socialistic ;) just like the US of A, so I can give you some pointers on how to plant potatoes and get a good batch if you ever run out of food haha ! (really, tis true).

  • Den

    Ha, I LOVE taters – I’m a beans and tatters man. There is a severe drought here this year and we only received 4 fold on the tatter crop. Can’t fool you on Socialism then can we Deb. Most Americans still it is all still jolly good…

    I know Love for Tatters and I know love for my fellow man. The King James Bible calls it Charity – I’m a Geneva man myself.

    Though I speak with the tongues of men and Angels, and have not love, I am as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I had the gift of prophecy, and knew all secrets and all knowledge, yea, if I had all faith, so that I could remove amountains, and had not love, I were nothing. And though I feed the poor with all my goods, and though I give my body, that I be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing. Love suffereth long: it is bountiful: love envieth not: love doth not boast itself: it is not puffed up: It doth 1no uncomely thing: it seeketh not her own thing: it is not provoked to anger: it thinketh no evil: It rejoiceth not in iniquity, but 1rejoiceth in the truth: It suffereth all things: it believeth all things: it hopeth all things: it endureth all things. Love doth never fall away, though that prophesyings be abolished, or the tongues cease, or knowledge vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect, is come, then that which is in part shall be abolished. When I was a child, I spake as a child: I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass darkly: but then shall we see face to face. Now I know in part: but then shall I know even as I am known. And now abideth faith, hope and love, even these three: but the chiefest of these is love.

    Love covers a multitude of sins…

    Now the end of all things is at hand. Be ye therefore sober, and watching in prayer. But above all things have fervent love among you: for love shall cover the multitude of sins. Be ye charberous one to another, without grudging. Let every man as he hath received the gift, minister the same one to another, as good disposers of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the words of God. If any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God ministereth, that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom is praise and dominion forever, and ever, Amen. Dearly beloved, think it not strange 3concerning the fiery trial, which is among you to prove you as though some strange thing were come unto you. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christs sufferings, that when his glory shall appear, ye may be glad and rejoice. If ye be railed upon for the Name of Christ, blessed are ye: for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: which on their part is evil spoken of, but on your part is glorified.

    Pray you don’t fall off into the ocean before you hear that trumpet sound… :)

  • John Chingford

    Hey Den

    Please do not depart until you have given me a chance to respond.

    I am exactly the same as Deborah, in that I have no hate for anybody. I only hate sin, deception, false teaching and the spirit behind all the deception. Please show me where I have said anything hateful in my comments. May be best if you can show the direct link to any comment I have made (you can find the link at the bottom of any specific comment) by copying the date,time of the comment). In fact, how can you determine my heart simply by looking at words.

    As Deborah said, it IS a loving thing to do to warn those who are being deceived to save them from the deception. Maybe, you consider Paul to be unloving in his warnings to the Corinthians and Galatians. He even said that deceivers should be accursed. You cannot actually label Paul as unloving. He sold himself out for trying to save the church from false teachers and even wrote 1 Corinthians 13 which tells us how to love.

    So again I ask, please qualify your statement. I for one love Mike Hoggard as a person and pray for him, but his teachings are dangerous to the church. We (as watchman) have a responsibility to expose error, because of our duty to the Lord and because we are deeply concerned for the large numbers of believers who are falling into such deception.

    By the way, I am not related in any way to Marion.

    God bless

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Do not depart Tater man! Your presence is requested by John who is not Marion’s husband lol haha.

  • Burning Lamp

    Den, thanks – I needed a good laugh today! Well, if Marion is John’s wife that was quite a commute for them to attend Hoggard’s church because John in located in the UK. And I think that they would be extremely incompatible. ;-)

    Both John and Debs speak the truth in love. They have entirely different styles that reflect their distinct personalities, but they have a common bond of love for the Lord and His truth and doggedly defend it, thereby incurring the wrath and ridicule of most.

    There is no hatred expressed for Hoggard and his ilk who are misleading the sheep. It is the ERROR that we SHOULD hate as the Bible instructs. The Bible says to MARK them and AVOID them, not excuse their error. That is NOT love, but a perversion thereof.

  • Marion

    CLARIFICATION…when Den mentioned he met me and John at Bethel Church (Mike Hoggard’s front)…He was correct, my husband John, who participated in the emailing of Mike in November, and I were at Bethel Church for their “Homecoming Celebration” in August of 2011. However, neither of us recall meeting a “Den;” he says he met us…maybe he did and didn’t mention his name to us…

    AND you are right BL…it is the error and deception that we hate…ESPECIALLY when it is perpetrated by those who hold themselves out as “defenders of the faith”, “standing for truth” and “watchmen on the wall.” They need not fear the wrath of man, but a just God who will recompense according to their works. It is MIGHTY UNLOVING to “devour the sheep.” Those who do so ought to be exposed!

    And YET, it would be better that they repent; for we serve a greatly compassionate God who is ready and waiting to forgive, desiring that NONE should perish!

    (I hopt this posts, there are no links)

  • Hanelie

    Burning Lamp wrote:

    Both John and Debs speak the truth in love. They have entirely different styles that reflect their distinct personalities, but they have a common bond of love for the Lord and His truth and doggedly defend it, thereby incurring the wrath and ridicule of most.

    I have com to see that. But, I also reacted differently to the site at first 9as you will all certainly remember). So, I have done much thinking about that and about why we see such a difference in responses. Now, this might be the wrong thread for what I am going to say now, sorry. I think there are three main reasons:
    This communication medium is tricky. You cannot hear someone tone of voice or see their body language, which experts say constitute up to 93% of communication. In the absence of those all important cues to help us decipher messages, we probably (just guessing) fill in from our own experiences and perspectives.
    To learn that you have been deceived, that the ones you trust are really wolves in sheep’s clothes – is painful an scary. It often shakes the foundations of what you believe. So, you might want to rather “kill the messenger” and pretend it is not so. I know. I was there. Won’t bore you with the facts.
    This doesn’t look like anything like the Christianity many of us have been taught.

    Allow me a moment to talk about my own experience here. I pray that you will see that, though I will use myself as example, it is not meant to be about me, but about our walk with Christ. A while ago, when I were making comments similar to some of those above, Deborah called me an Emergent. Though I found amusing (showing my ignorance), I was also slightly taken aback by it and I was curious as to the reasons why. Now, the fact is: I do not believe that all roads lead to heaven or any of the other things Emergent theology holds. Still, there must have been something in what I said that made her make that link. When I allowed the Holy Spirit to show me what it was, I realized to what an extent Emergent thinking had infiltrated the teaching in the “church” I used to attend. And, because, I have an issue confronting people (you wouldn’t say ;)), elements of this theology worked for me. Now, I was never exposed to what it really is, and I do know that each time I came across the more serious all-roads-lead-heaven messages, I recoiled. I was never an Emergent (I didn’t hold their beliefs), yet very subtle exposure to limited elements of Emergent thinking had infiltrated my own thinking and actions. It was quite an eye opener when I realized this.

    What I am saying is that at the time I might not have thought “judging” me to be an Emergent was right or fair. I might even have judged it as “lacking love”. But, I have come to see it differently and I am really grateful for what I have learned through it. I am also saying that all of us (myself too) might sometimes judge people incorrectly based on their words in a medium like this, but the Holy Spirit is bigger than all of that and can use it to help us grow.

    The Holy Spirit also taught me something else through this. That when I have Him on my side I do not need to defend myself. Yes, even though I was amused, my first reaction was to launch into a defense offense! Had I done that (well, I did, for a while, luckily those posts got deleted!), I might never have learned what I did. I learned that this is love: not to look the other way when the body of Christ or His message is harmed, but to turn the other cheek when I (feel I) am harmed. Big difference there. This has really been amazing road.

  • Den

    Hey John,

    You could rework the header and copy and paste what you said about him above:

    ‘I for one love Mike Hoggard as a person and pray for him, but’: then you could add your evidence against him. Then you would at least have a touch of Love included in your article. John, the image of Mike Hoggard holding up his hand as a occult or freemason symbol is silly and not a benefit to your cause. I thought Mike Hoggard should see your page so I looked his email up and emailed him your link. I thought it was the least I could do considering the circumstances. You all might even make his Watchman video broadcast :) Hope you don’t mind Deb.

    Hi Burning Lamp,

    That’s Great! I’m glad I gave you a good start for the day. That would have been a commute wouldn’t it? Lot’s of John’s – I should have known. lol

    Hi Marion,

    You have really took me on a Journey. From Festus, MO to South Africa to the UK and back to Missouri. It’s been quite a ride I must say. I don’t believe I was at Bethel for the homecoming – to tell you the truth I can’t remember but I missed a couple of months around then because my center manifold blew a gasket. I don’t guess I met you because had I met you I would have introduced myself and my daughter to you and John. We always sat on the back right row right in front of the exit door.

    Marion, Pray for Mike and Jazz…

    Well Deb, It’s been a pleasure. Sorry for agreeing to disagree…
    Till next time.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    I gotta say you have truly done one incredible ‘about turn’. My mom reads this blog every day and she remembers you from a years ago, and she phoned me and said, “Is that the same Hanelie from back then?” I said, “yes, isn’t it wonderful”, and we both nearly shed a tear.

    I pray…. Phil 1:6 “Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    >> John, the image of Mike Hoggard holding up his hand as a occult or freemason symbol is silly and not a benefit to your cause……I thought Mike Hoggard should see your page so I looked his email up and emailed him your link.

    Den, that is not John’s website… It is someone else’s – who? We do not know.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    John Chingford sent in an email to me:

    TO DEN:

    Thanks Deb

    You are absolutely correct. The details given by Den are not contained within my blog.

    The blog he is referring to is an entirely different one. He looked at Good Soldier of Jesus Christ (as given by someone on an earlier comment)

    For clarification: my blog is called LAST DAYS WATCHMAN and can be found on:

    DEN, Please send Mike Hoggard another email telling him that you made a mistake

  • Den

    Whoa… Thanks Deb and John, I sent him another email telling him none of you all are the owners of that website and that nobody here knows who owns it. BTW you have a very nice site John… Thanks for the link. I’m sure glad I checked back in. Hi Hannele

  • Hanelie

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:


    I gotta say you have truly done one incredible about turn. My mom reads this blog every day and she remembers you from a years ago, and she phoned me and said, Is that the same Hanelie from back then? I said, yes, isnt it wonderful, and we both nearly shed a tear.

    I pray. Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

    Well, that’s testimony to the faithfulness and work of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for the scripture; it is obviously always very appropriate; it is obviously always very appropriate, but is really especially valuable where I am right now. I thought I was sort of “emotionally immune” to learning about all the deception, deceivers and hidden agendas, but alas not.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thank you Den!

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Marion wrote:
    I also have come to believe that what his material does is initiate the unsuspecting true Christians into the ancient mysteries, of which they would otherwise be unawares, under the guise of educating us to the ways of the enemy of our souls, to enable us to be watchmen. AND I did become awareand God used it to uncover evilbut, at the same time, Gods people become defiled, by having paraded in front of our eyes, into our ears, hearts and minds, things we would ordinarily not have anything to do with, retreat from; even occult ways and practices.but in the desire to KNOW

    That is exactly the thought that came to me when I was watching a video on Caryl Matrisciana site.
    That is so true!

  • Marion

    Paul…Caryle…another wolf…look at those who run in that “pack.”…and take heed unto yourself!

  • Good Soldier

    Hello Den,
    I published that blog site you think is so foolish.

    Do I love Mike Hoggard? No I do not, why should I love a lying wolf
    who is seeking to devour my brethren. I love my brethren who are being
    lead astray by him but Mr Hoggard I have no love for him, he is
    accursed in my view, having knowledge of the truth he has turned to
    follow doctrines of devils and is now teaching them as if they are the
    word of God. You say that my pointing out his Masonic hand signs is
    silly, shame on you. You should know better than to discount the use
    of signs and symbols used covertly by the members of secret orders to
    let fellow members know they are part of the same club. Sure Y not
    just come out and tell us your part of that same club and feel the
    need to defend a brother mason when he is exposed.

    You are a partaker of his evil deeds by the way that you defend him.

    2Jn 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine
    of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he
    hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and
    bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid
    him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his
    evil deeds.

    I see you like to quote from the Geneva Bible but at the same time you
    defend a man who teaches that the KJV is the inspired translation in
    English, that is just hypocrisy. Mr Hoggard lies all over the place in
    his book the King James Code to make his case for a hidden code that
    only he could find because of special revelation from God that proves
    the KJV is inspired. I only pointed out a few examples in my blog and
    that should have been enough for you to think to yourself I had better
    check everything that comes out of that mans mouth in future. What
    dose that make him Den? Special revelation that turns out to be a lie
    = False Prophet. You can eat his meat and spit out the bones all you
    want and you will still find a false prophet teaching occult mystery’s
    and hidden meanings to be found by the wise and enlightened Mr Hoggard
    from the Hogwarts School of Bible interpretation.

    I also see you like to talk about love while disregarding the sound
    doctrines Deborah is giving you in return. I put it to you that you
    are following another Jesus of your own understanding, the Gentle New
    Age Jesus that Jazz is a follower off is the same loving kind Jesus
    that you are preaching in this tred. Must I remind you that the Lord
    Jesus Christ that is come in the flesh will one day return to judge
    this world and will burn it up with fire.

    Geneva 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thiefe in the
    night, in the which the heauens shall passe away with a noyse, and the
    elements shall melt with heate, and the earth with the workes that are
    therein, shalbe burnt vp.

    Now that’s not very loving in your understanding now is it? The Lord
    is long suffering and wish for all to be saved but all will not be
    saved because they will not have it and seek other Gods before him.
    The Gentle Jesus that is preached by New Ager’s and Emergent’s is not
    Biblical and is a Luciferian inversion of the truth. It was Jesus who
    sent Titus to punish the Jews for rejecting him in 70AD and it will be
    Jesus who separates the sheep from the goats on the last day.

    Mat 23:36-38 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon
    THIS GENERATION. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the
    prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I
    have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her
    chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left
    unto you desolate.

    Luk 23:28-29 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of
    Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for YOURSELVES, and for YOUR
    CHILDREN. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall
    say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the
    paps which never gave suck.

    Why don’t you ask Mike some hard questions about Chuck Missler instead
    of defending him or over looking the fact that he endorses him by
    speaking on the same platforms as him? It’s because your all loved up
    in the Jesus of your own understanding and are willing to overlook all
    manner of wickedness to have peace and love. Which is the peace and
    love of the Broken cross peace symbol used by the united nations and
    Sure Y Not.

    Sure Y Not has been removed from Mike Hoggard’s web site but he still
    has all him videos posted on Sure Y Not. I don’t watch his watchman
    broadcast but I seriously doubt he ever mentioned my blog on his show
    for fear the rest of his occult workings and lies might be seen by his
    blinded followers. The day Mike takes down all his videos with false
    doctrine and special revelation and withdraws his books on occult
    secret codes in the KJV and repents from reading occult books and
    teaching them to his followers and steps aside as a pastor because he
    deems himself unfit to lead the Lords flock anymore is the day I will
    accept him as my brother in the Lord and will love him as a brother.
    Until then I will rebuke ye both with all authority in the hope that I
    might pull ye out of the fire, now that is true charity.

    Jud 1:16-25 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own
    lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s
    persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye
    the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus
    Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last
    time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who
    separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved,
    building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy
    Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of
    our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion,
    making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of
    the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him
    that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless
    before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise
    God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now
    and ever. Amen.

    Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all
    authority. Let no man despise thee.

    Consider yourself rebuked


  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    It would appear that since Den emailed Mike about this blogs conversation Mike Hoggard went and did a covert cleanup of his blog trying to remove the evidence. Hmm, pity he didn’t do it when Marion questioned him back in 2011, you would have thought Mike would have had some Holy Spirit conviction to check out if there was any evil on his website and remove it, but he dismissed it. I think he is what is most commonly called, busted.

  • Marion

    Well said, Good Soldier!

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Marion wrote:

    PaulCaryleanother wolflook at those who run in that pack.and take heed unto yourself!

    I figured that out even before Debs exposed Missler and Oakland and their pack (Debs had busted them long time before, but she waited before publishing)

    I seem to have a much greater discernment for some time now. I seem to be able to identify a wolf way before many people have any clue. I believe it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Since last summer when I was delivered from the deception of a pentecostal-charismatic man-centered cult, my discernment have become very sharp. I am always on guard, and most people dont discern what I discern or understand me. Thankfully, Ive found on this blog some people who are like minded. For the past year, Ive been brought to understand what the Lord Jesus meant when He asked: When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?
    It seems the remnant grow smaller and smaller by the day, as the deception spread wider and wider!

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Good Soldier,

    You could add this verse of Scripture to your rebuke to Den:

    2Chr 19:2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.

    Surely Mike Hoggard and his pack (Missler and Co) hate the LORD!

  • Redeemed

    Paul, you are right. As those so-called discerners are exposed as being nothing but shields for false teachers, working within predetermined boundaries that do not disturb their “networks”, those who choose to take an uncompromised stand for truth begin to stick out like sore thumbs. I use that analogy because that is exactly how folks like you are viewed – critical spirit, judgmental, etc. But the LORD does not see you that way and we must remember that He and the Apostles were viewed as troublemakers and malcontents.

  • Den

    Wow, G. S. call me what you will. You have a hatred that I do not share. Please feel free to dissect my website to add to your condemnation of me. A good place for you to start would be the
    . I will let my comments on this page stand as a remembrance to you all of who I am…

    Take Care Deb…

  • Jude 3 times is Gone

    Hi all if anyone of you was the owner of Jude 3 times I would really like to know why it was taken down. You know who I am and have my e-mail address so please let me know. Thank’s

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jude 3

    Nope no one here is the owner of that site. Sorry.

  • mary

    really disturbing to read all of this about mike he seems like a sound teacher. at the end of the day we must be bereans and check out these evangelical teachers. i have separated myself from john macarthur he is a staunch calvanist and his teachings on calvanism are seeping into all the seminaries, books tapes dvds and churches. its a heresy that he teaches its a big topic and a big issue. its no light matter calvanism is catholicsm from augustine who was a catholic church father. stay away from this deadly teaching. i so far agree with mike hoggard i don’t get into the bible codes the nephilim teaching is debatable still looking into it. we really are living in perilous times such confusion we no longer can look to fallible man teachng us the word of god. i can only hope lords coming is close as we too can fall into this apostasy its a tsunami of apostasy being thrown at us. false teachers like hinn, copeland joyce meyer are all judgemnts on people who do not have a love of the truth. god is giving people over when they receive not the love of the truth. check yr jesus via yr doctrine to make sure u have the right jesus. a false gospel never saved anyone with a false jesus.

  • mary

    so true paul we are living in very difficult times and its getting harder to find a sound church even the baptists churches are not discerning anymore. the seminaries are all going back to rome thru reformed theology. macarthur has a lot to answer for one day how he has mislead so many christians with his lordship salvation of works. his calvanism is deadly different jesus calvin was the tyrant of geneva. the reformers never truly came out of rome. so calvanism is just another leg of rome its deceptive and appeals especially to the intellectuals. lots of compromising is going on we are running out of teachers that are truly on the straight and narrow.
    we don’t know whos teaching to trust anymore as there is much confusion. if u r discerning u will be called critical unloving and dogmatic. getting tired of all i just wish the lord would come.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dear Mary

    Thank you so much for your comment.

    The problem with Mike is that he teaches Christians the occult. He delves into the occult so that he can teach Christians the occult. That is not biblical. That is a trap.

    the nephilim teaching is debatable still looking into it. See here: or this article please read comments as well.

  • mary

    just wondering if we are in these baptist churches that teach calvanism and if it is a heresy which i believe it is then how are we to sit under these teachings. then i have no church to go to then i will stay home and get together with a few like minded christians.

  • Aaron

    Calvinism is a heresy. Once saved always saved is true due to John 3:16, but calvinism is false.

  • S.E.Brown

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Dear Mary
    Thank you so much for your comment.
    The problem with Mike is that he teaches Christians the occult. He delves into the occult so that he can teach Christians the occult. That is not biblical. That is a trap.
    >>the nephilim teaching is debatable still looking into it.
    See here: or this article please read comments as well.

    Deborah-You “nailed it” regarding Mike! MANY FALSE teachers&preachers today use that particular tactic to “TEACH” the OCCULT to Christians! The Website manager,”Jazzy” is a New Ager, and Mike just LOVES to teach what he calls “Newage Sewage”-lol.
    I know that those are: “The deep things of Satan”,which Jesus Christ Himself(in the Book of Revelation in the letters to the Churches) WARNED true Christians NOT to have knowledge of in any way. Mike will receive from our Lord according to his works, just as Jude said!

  • S.E.Brown

    Redeemed wrote:

    Marian, wow, what an amazing expose on Hoggard! I only recently became aware of him and his wide influence. He appeals to many of the KJV-only folks who fail to look past that and all the surface truth he promotes.
    You speak from experience and now have the opportunity to alert others. I hope Lauren heeds your warning.
    I hope you have shared this with Joetta Smith, the dear lady who ministers in Kenya and was apparently thrown under the bus by LHT/UTT. She links to Hoggard on her site.
    These are perilous times indeed when truth is being used as a cloak for darkness no doubt that is what the Bible refers to as an angel of light. The Word tells us to be on guard, be alert, but sheep are gullible and stray so oh how are TRUE watchpeople needed! And there are even impostors posing as watchpeople! And these are even harder to detect!
    Thanks for sharing!

    Dear Redeemed- I’ve discovered some “BUZZ WORDS” the IMPOSTERS use that identify them:

    (1) Instead of referring to their followers as “WATCHMEN” (as in “on the wall”), they call their people “WATCHERS”(as in the fallen angels who left their proper abode-see the Book of Jude).

    (2) They also are OBSESSED with the NEPHILIM, and all of the titilating DETAILS of CARNAL relations between human woman and fallen angels. At one of their “Nephilim Conferences”(LOL ;>)), there was a SUPPOSED “Pastor” who was WARNING all the parents in the audience to keep their daughters locked-up, so that they would not be seduced by these fallen angels-ROFLOL :>) !!!

    (3)They go on endlessly about “HYBRID humans”, how they are HERE NOW! Then they discuss whether such “Hybrids” can obtain SALVATION!!!

    (4)UFO’s and human abductions are one of the BIGGEST deals on their agenda! While they acknowledge that these are “angelic visitations”, they hardley ever tell you that this is a coming POST-RAPTURE part of the STRONG DELUSION(see 2Thessalonians2)sent BY GOD to those who’ve REJECTED The Gospel of Jesus Christ, His TRUTH, and Salvation of all humanity ONLY coming THROUGH HIM. The New Agers call these “visitors” “ASCENDED MASTERS”, and they even have an “ASCENDED MASTER JESUS”(a DEMON Poseur)waiting in line to teach all of the FAUX “christians”, AFTER we are raptured!

    (5) I have noticed on one website in particular-L.A.Marzulli- that when he refers to Satan he calls him “The Fallen One”, in CAPITAL LETTERS, just like we Christians do with the Name of Jesus Christ, and God, the Father.The antichrist is also called “The One” in the New Age venacular-BIG BUZZ WORD!!!

    (6)Another thing I’ve noticed is that instead of using the Name, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, they will ONLY refer to Him as “Yeshua”,”Yeshuahua”,or some JEWISH term for His Name and NEVER add “Mechiach” at the end for MESSIAH!

    (7)BEWARE of any pastor/teacher/preacher who only preaches “Jesus”,NO Christ, NO “of Nazareth”, because they are probably referring to that “OTHER Jesus” and “ANOTHER gospel” that Paul adamentally WARNED us about in Galations, Chapter 1.

    (8)The IMPOSTERS love to teach real Christians The OCCULT,WITCHCRAFT,and “DOCTRINES of DEMONS”-
    The “Word of Faith” folks,The T.V. evangelists, and The MONEY GRUBBER$ all appeal to the Lu$t for $,the PRIDE of Life, and The DE$IRE of the EYE$- Satanic TRAPS, ALL of them and they use “WITCHCRAFT” to beguile those who watch or listen to them!

    If you want to know how I have learned about them, it’s because I’ve gone into the “Enemy Camp” and spied them out. We are told to be AWARE of the WILES of the DEVIL- the ENEMY of our souls and that WICKED who wants all humans, especially the Bride, to come over to his camp! James tells us that if we RESIST the devil, he will FLEE from us! Singing hymns and praising our Beloved Jesus Christ really works as “devil/demon REPELLANT”!

  • Margie R

    We have done extensive research on Mike Hoggard and his connection with Chuck Missler and other questionable teaching etc. Here is a link to much info along with videos / pics etc. There’s no doubt in our minds, this man is a false teacher. We watched him too, for a long time; especially Pastor Mike Online. But it wasn’t until this year, that we really started to look into him. It’s shocking. Nothing we have posted is hateful or with malice; only the facts.

    We have a group on Facebook also exposing Mike Hoggard, in the same manner. This man is becoming very well known, on the internet; and the deception is great!

  • Goldie

    Hi, Debra, I’m not agreeing with Dan. I’ve been on the WC site for a while now, and also have listened to Mike for a while now. I don’t listen to him very much anymore, but I enjoy the fellowship at times on WC. I have met some great people, a couple that Jazz had kicked off…for one. We have exchanged emails to keep in touch, and have had wonderful fellowship by phone conversions. I try and drop hints on there that no man has it all, and any Preacher can be off sometimes, hoping the naive, will pick up on that hint..;-) I have also seen many things about Mike H.I do not like. I have gotten lots of RED FLAGS in my spirit! But, About the program that you can type in one word, and all the verses come up..I certainly don’t use it for any numbers game, I just enjoy that I can see all the scriptures that have to do with that one word, and study all those scriptures. For instance if I want to study about the Day of the Lord, I just type it in, and all those scriptures come up. It makes studying many things a lot easier! Nothing to do with numbers for me anyway. Just thought I would add that! God Bless your work sister! Can you tell me what is wrong with the Light House trails site??? I hadn’t realized that they were off…thanks.

  • Sue

    Hi Margie, I’m sorry…I get it now! My eyes are totally wide open! I love you, sue C. :( I tried to email several times, without any success…:( I hope you will forgive my error, and take me back!

  • Just to give you an update… What the devil meant to use to destroy me and the ministry God had given to me has been turned around and used for God’s glory! My intent has always been to have a place where pastors could come and learn the true word of God using the KJV Bible and to contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints. I won’t go into everything that befell me because of what those people did to me for God will give them their due at the right time.
    One of the pastors I had been working with stayed with me through it all and God has given me a “new” ministry…new name but same vision. We are now called Treasure Keepers Kenya discipleship ministry for pastors. We have a small place where pastors now meet once a month and they have been coming almost 2 years now. They all say how much they have grown spiritually themselves and how much their congregations have grown in their faith and knowledge as well. The pastor (Hosea) and his wife and I live out in the interior and his wife (Mama Junior) and I also have our ministry to women called Pikipiki Mamas 4 Jesus and we go out monthly to minister to women riding the pikipikis (motorbikes with drivers) to reach the interior church where we meet with them. We seek ONE goal…to help these precious people to know and understand the true word of God and to apply it to their lives. It has been a real challenge, but God has been so faithful!
    Our ministry is small, but it is strong and pulsing with the life of Jesus Christ. We continue on, praying to endure unto the end. I have come close to death twice…once from malaria and once from the congestive heart failure that I have….but God has chosen to keep me around and I am happy to serve Him with every breath He gives me. We never ask for donations and leave that all up to God…our part is to follow Him and teach these pastors so they can teach their flocks. We want to see them in heaven!! We do our best to supply them with the Authorized KJV Bibles and a Strong’s Concordance so they can be equipped to do their own Bible study and PROVE everything we bring out in the word of God.
    Thanks for your great site. I always enjoy it so much. I have removed certain links off of my blog as well. Keep up the good work.
    If anyone wants to see more about what we are doing they can go to my little website at God bless you, Mama Jo

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hi Joetta

    Awesome! I am so happy to hear from you. What a strange co-inkie-dinkie but I thought about you about 2 months ago and wondered what on earth was going on. I pray that you are ok, and that Jesus looks after you as you lead people to Jesus Christ. I know how strong the false Christian teaching is in Africa and it’s tough just all around to be in Africa and do what you do. I pray too that people go to your website and donate money to help you.

  • Stephen

    How do you recognise a Devil hand signing masonic wolf in sheep’s clothing? just watch what he does with his paws. ie so it’s not really the show that hell hates!!

  • val

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Something interesting on the front page of it says
    Welcome to Bethel Church the way it used to be
    Welcome to the Bethel Church Web Site. Bethel is a loving, friendly church where you will find acceptance. We follow the old paths and are a King James Bible Church where you will be taught the Truth of Gods Holy Word. We are so very pleased you are visiting with us via the world wide web. If you are able to visit in person, you will be greeted with a warm welcome.We follow the old paths ?? OLD and MANY PATHS? You gotta be kidding! This is occult.

    Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

  • val,

    So, according to you, MANY PATHS are the OLD PATH.

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