Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears
Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears
Nancy Missler began her Christianity under a woman who was known for training the next generation of ecumenical world leaders and established the campus ecumenical movement.
“Nancy Missler attended UCLA where she studied art. She met Chuck on a blind date in 1956 and they married the following year. Through Christian author and speaker Henrietta Mears, Nancy became a Christian, and she devoted herself to her family, raising the Misslers’ four children, Chip, Mark, Lisa and Michelle.. Nancy also established a company, Missler Aerial Photography Service, that specialized in aerial and architectural photography.” — http://www.khouse.org/pages/mcat/about_the_misslers [Emphasis added]
Henrietta Mears‘ ecumenical influence was widespread. She was a close friend and coworker of Charles Fuller who promoted her 
on his radio broadcasts. Fuller, Ockenga, and Orr all taught at the Forest Home Christian Conference Center which she founded to “train the next generation of world leaders.” With Fuller, Ockenga, and Orr, Henrietta Mears established the campus ecumenical movement. For eleven years Mears groomed Bill Bright for leadership and Campus Crusade for Christ was founded in her living room. (Bill Bright was a member of the Council for National Policy Board of Governors in 1982.) According to Christianity Today, Henrietta Mears is the “grandmother of modern evangelicalism.” [Emphasis added]
Chuck Missler is working with the UN on the following:
The SWANsat Project will place a constellation of three high-powered satellites into operation: One spacecraft will serve Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and western Asia. One spacecraft will serve North, Central, and South America. One spacecraft will serve central and east Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and the central Pacific. When operated together, all three spacecraft will provide coverage of the entire globe, except for polar areas.” – www.swansat.com
Aiding the UN connect the world via satellite for the coming one world order.
Dr. Charles W. “Chuck” Missler is a special advisor to the SWANsatâ„¢ project. –www.swansat.com/about_us_cmissler.htm
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Regarding the latest book by Chuck and Nancy Missler titled Kingdom, Power, and Glory: The Overcomer’s Hand book this is what THE BEREAN CALL had to say about the book:
“Nancy, has, in our view, serious doctrinal errors. The main thesis they present is that born-again believers fall into two categories: “overcomers” and “carnal Christians.” When both stand before Jesus at His judgment seat for rewards, those saved carnal Christians (whose lives have produced few, if any, good works) will be relegated to a place of outer darkness during the Millennium when overcoming Christians will rule and reign with Christ.” — www.thebereancall.org/node/8167 [Emphasis added]
“In addition to the implications regarding the gospel, it grieves me deeply that the Misslers’ book may spread anxiety and fear among evangelicals, much like I had as a Roman Catholic. I knew I had punishments awaiting me, even if I made it to purgatory. Being delivered from that fear when I put my faith in the One who paid the full penalty for my sins, my heart joyfully rested in His words: “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you” (John 14:1-2). There are many, many other verses that clearly show that Jesus will never separate Himself nor cast the believer away from Himself. We have His blessed assurance.” —-www.thebereancall.org/node/8167 [Emphasis added]
Sound Familiar?
From the book ‘Heaven is so Real’ by Choo Thomas she says,
” When we got to the top, I looked over a brown and lifeless valley. Everywhere there was brown. The whole region seemed to be filled with dead grass.”I noticed multitudes of people who were wearing sand-colored robes roaming aimlessly in the vicinity of the pit’s yawning mouth. Their heads were hanging low, and they looked very dejected and hopeless. “Who are these people, Lord?” I asked.
“They are disobedient ‘Christians” “How long will they have to stay in this barren, lifeless place?”Forever, My daughter. The only ones who will enter My kingdom are the pure of heart-My obedient children.” (p. 46 also p.249) [Emphasis added]
We can see why Nancy Missler has managed to write such unbiblical nonsense because she learnt about ‘Christianity’ through Henrietta Mears – an ecumenical, unsaved woman with one world agenda.
Debs, I would suggest you put a warning besides the link to the article exposing the occult teachings of Mike Hoggard.
The author’s doctrine on the Nephilim is very dangerous.
I’ve posted a comment on her article and pointed her to your article http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/the-truth-about-the-sons-of-god-the-daughters-of-men-and-the-nephilim/.
She responded by dismissing my comment and your article.
Please pray for her. She is very deceived.
Paul
Oh crickey. I will indeed put a warning there……. Ok DONE.
Thanks for trying to warn her. It seems to be the in thing these days for blogs to just delete your first comment and never let your have any say. It shows their weakness in not being able to debate/argue biblically. Which means there is a problem. I at least let people have their say, to a point – (can’t have this blog running amok with strange peeps, so I have to keep it under control).
Hi Marion,
Interestingly I happened on this site doing some research on Chuck Missler and his associations with Sun Myung Moon when I caught the name Mike Hoggard in your post. I believe I met you and John there at Bethel Church as I have been going there once a month since May of 2011. Don’t be too hard on Mike over Jazz’s website because she contacted him and volunteered to be his webmaster and to host his videos. I was a member of the Watchman community which is a paid forum style community formed and run by Jazz.
I had contact with Jazz on several occasions while I was there and I could sense that she didn’t like me from our conversations and the Christian atmosphere just wasn’t there. After reading her About Us page I can now see why – truly sad. I remember in my email conversations with her I asked her where she went to church and she said that she didn’t go and that Mike was her pastor. I know for certain that he has no control over her website and at least at the time when I was there she was working for free. Hopefully, now that this is out in the open he can find a Christian webmaster to host his site…
So don’t be too hard on Mike because of Jazz being New Age. We all choose what we want to belief. As far as Mike being caught up the
Nephilim/Fallen Angels-Human Hybrids doctrine – Mike is not alone as it is a common teaching in Theosophy, Secret Societies, New Agers and unfortunately for many Christian’s today. Hopefully he will see the connection and change his views on Genesis 6. Either way sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. Mike is a good man so pray for him and Jazz as well that she will take heed to his teachings because Mike has many, many good points in his Watchman broadcasts.
Chuck Missler, well he is a whole other ball of wax…
Den
Den
Thanks for your comment
However… as a pastor he should be squeeky clean, he is the one that teaches others and God will hold him accountable for this.
>> Either way sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
Never. You can not agree to disagree on false doctrine. Can you imagine Jesus saying…
Never.
You see, the Holy Spirit guides all Christians into ALL TRUTH, not TRUTH and ERROR.
The church is in the state it is in because everyone insists on agreeing to disagree, instead of following scripture, following God’s commandments, which states that you are to follow the Word of God and if you are not then you are not being guided by the Holy Spirit.
>> Mike is a good man so pray for him and Jazz as well that she will take heed to his teachings because Mike has many, many good points in his Watchman broadcasts
1) Jazz is an undercover New Age Change Agent as explained in her Manifesto and has infiltrate Mikes ministry and has no intention of changing her ways.
2) Mike is possibly not who he says he is and has allowed Jazz to infiltrate him and even after he was warned about her, he ignored the warning – he did nothing to change webmasters.
Hi Deborah,
I can agree with what you are saying. With that said it is safe to say that none of us are perfect (surely you can agree with that), there has been only One who is squeaky clean and He was crucified for all of our sins. Past, present, and future. The Kingdom of God doesn’t dwell in buildings made of wood, brick, stone, or in enlightenment. The Kingdom of God dwells within His children and they make up His church – surely you can agree with that. I don’t know Jazz’s heart and her manifesto is clearly New Age but opinions change and people can change. Only God knows the heart of a man (or woman) and whether they will turn to Him sometime in their life. All I’m saying is give Mike a chance to make things right and pray for both him and Jazz. Deb that is not compromise but as a blood bought child of the Living God its the least we can do.
The Nephilim, Fallen Angels, Aliens etc have infiltrated most all beliefs today and of course they should be rejected. These teachings have no salvation value and are nothing more than Occult Mysticism. All I’m saying is don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. God is still able make a wrong right. I know my righteousness is as filthy rags, how about you?
Den
>> With that said it is safe to say that none of us are perfect (surely you can agree with that)
Now you are bringing humanism into the equation. Non of us are perfect when it comes to sin, because we are sinners, but when it comes to the gospel we are commanded to keep to the truth and the Holy Spirit will guide us into ALL TRUTH.
John 16:13; “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. ”
John 15:10 Jesus said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 14:15; John 14:21; John 14:23; 1John 5:3;)
Mike has a chance to make things right, and I pray he does like I pray everyone who follows false teaching makes right with the Lord.
However there comes a time where you need to draw the line, especially because he is a minister which means he knows way more than your ordinary little sheep.
Hi Deb,
Thank you for that. Let’s just pray for them that God’s will be done in their lives. Trust me I have a line I won’t cross. I know who I am in Christ Jesus. Your humanism response made me smile. I’ve done much study on modern day Humanism. Not so Deb.
Marion, I don’t know if you are still monitoring this thread but if you are I just want to say it was a pleasure meeting you and John and hope to meet you again someday. Deb gave some mighty fine scriptures above which are close to my heart. Please let me add Matthew 22: Master, which is the great commandment in the Law? Jesus said to him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and the great commandment. And the second is like unto this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hangeth the whole Law and the Prophets.
You all have a Blessed Sunday…
Den
Den
If you love Jesus with all your heart and all your soul, you will automatically love your neighbor and preach the truth.
2 John 1:5 “And now I beseech you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
2 John 1:6 “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”
Walking in God’s commandments and loving your neighbor are mutually inclusive – the one cannot happen without the other.
Thanks Den, I think I like you 🙂 in a Christian neighborly sorta way 😛
Den
I also want to mention that it’s not just his incorrect interpretation of scripture re the Nephillim that Mike has to worry about but his fascination with finding Code in the Bible of which he has written a book. He also appears to be into numerology which is of the occult.
So right now it’s not looking very good for ol’ Mike.
Well, Thank you Deb for your kindness. You have my contact information if I can ever help you in anyway. I personally have never been into Prophetic Profiles and Time lines or ELS – Letter Skip Sequencing, etc – although interesting none of them are necessary to walk the path that God has for us in this day… Mikes not into Numerology or other occult influence of numbers on human affairs except to expose them. He uses a cheap $10 search program from Walmart. Type in a word and the program tells you how many times it is used in the KJV bible. He gave me one but I couldn’t use it because it is for a 32 bit operating system and mine is 64 bit. I’ve never read his book on the King James Code.
Have you ever watched a Watchman Video Broadcast? The new one should be coming out this evening and you can watch it at: http://www.youtube.com/user/WatchmanVideoChannel?feature=watch
No secret Vodo I promise…
Den
>> Type in a word and the program tells you how many times it is used in the KJV bible
What for? That is a type of numerology.
You aint gonna persuade me to side with Mike until he changes his ways. If I watch his video(s) I will “Tests the Spirits” as per 1 John 4 and he might come of worse off than before I watched the video.
I see on your website nwotoday.com Mike is one of the whistle blowers, along some other strange characters (Jack Chick (fraud) , Charles W. Frank (Dominionist), Fritz Springmeier (Dominionist) , is this why you are trying so hard to defend him? He is on your website?
Den. I did an expose on Mike Hoggard on my blog. Especially revealing are within the comments section. If you consider the material there I am sure you too will be convinced to be wary of Mike Hoggard’s teachings. Here is the link
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Hi Deb,
So what you are saying is a person should never use numbers to identify words in the bible? How many times Salvation is mentioned in the New Testament is witchcraft? This is what he does Deb and I see no harm or evil in doing that. Of course you should test the Spirits – we all should. Although I haven’t watched it yet this weeks video is a good one for you to tear into as the name of it is ‘Astrology and Observing Times’. Here’s the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSxUmU2h6bw Chew up the meat and spit out the bones and see what you come up with…
I take it that you don’t like Jack Chick. If you visited my Whistle blowers page then chances are you also read the descriptions of them (I am to blame). Maybe you know something about him that I should know perhaps? Jack Chick was added as a honorable mention along with John Todd another controversial person.
Just out of curiosity where did you hear of Charles W. Frank as he is relatively unknown outside of the one book that he wrote called the House of Lords and what makes you believe he is a Dominionist? You have me scratching my head on that one.
Fritz Springmeier is a lot of things but one thing he is not in my opinion is political. My opinion is he – much like John Todd has done much to expose the Occult secrets societies which are in control of our world today.
If you read the top paragraph of the Whistle blowers page you will see that I have no affiliations with any of Whistle blowers (faces) on my site – and that includes Mike Hoggard. I did visit his church once a month for a little over a year but had very little contact with him outside of shaking his hand, a two sentence conversation and saying amen every once in a while. I sat on the back row, minded my own business and kept my big mouth shut. lol
Personally I like Mike and when I saw Marion’s comments here on your site I thought I would stop in and talk with her. Mike is a big man and able to take care of himself and I’m sure he is well accustomed to criticism. So watch his video and then decide for yourself on where you stand with him. Deb, it’s much better than second hand information from Marion, myself, or anyone else.
Den
>> saying is a person should never use numbers to identify words in the bible? How many times Salvation is mentioned in the New Testament …?
What for?
>> Chew up the meat and spit out the bones and see what you come up with…
Now, we do not ‘chew up the meat and spit out the bones’. No where in the bible are we told to do this. When we find false teaching we spit it out, the whole thing Gal 5:9 “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” and we mark those who cause division and stay away from them. Rom 16:17 “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” (Col 2:8; Titus 3:10; 2John 1:10; Matt 18:17; 2Thess 3:6; 2Tim 3:5)
>> Just out of curiosity where did you hear of Charles W. Frank….and what makes you believe he is a Dominionist?
It says he is a dominionist on http://www.nwotoday.com, it says, “Based out of Washington State is an Independent Newspaper writer and author of the book House of Lords – America in the Balance. Chuck’s focus is on the American Constitution and it’s restoration back to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to American citizen’s and their posterity.”
As you know… Yes, a Future Kingdom, but Not a Kingdom Now
Marion wrote via email:
———–
Den…do check out this further expose’ of Mike.
NOW tell me what you saw there… [Deb’s note: The reference to the Matrix (NWO), the Matrix numbers (11), APOSTLE Stan and the Sword (Give AWAY), Solomns Keys! What does Mike know about The Lesser or Greater Keys of Solomon to teach on them?? And WHAT FOR? Only an ex occultist (which he is not) or someone delving into the occult nowwould know this stuff, etc, etc, etc. What would a so called man of God be doing reading into the grand grimoire, one of the most famous and outrageous books of black magic and informing the Christian public about it. Where in the Bible does it tell us to do this? No where.]
Clearly Mike promotes himself as an “expert” who “teaches” others the meaning of symbolism and numerology from the occult under the guise of being “watchmen”. But the Bible says that we are to “watch” for the sword…not look into these matters. I think we need to be aware and able to recognize what is Luciferian when we see it. Mike, however, is initiated others (especially Christians) into the occult mysteries…whereby they become defiled both in mind and spirit. God does not desire for us to have the “knowledge of evil”, and it is forbidden…which Mike is eager to impart to his “watchers.”
Your appeal to “give him time” to work it out…REALLY? What’s to work out? I had these discussions going back to Nov. with him and he blew off our concerns and left questions unanswered. We expected better of him. Mike has made no “mistakes” here, but has purposed to intentionally deceive the flock of God (and anyone else he can along the way). There is no defense for this.
Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits…” (Matt. 7:15-16a) Being he knows all about the symbols, numbers and signals, what are they doing ALL OVER his own material? (occult fruit!) He never counted on the “education” he passed on to others, to be used to take a look at him. He has been found out, period.
You agree there’s something wrong with Chuck Missler? You do well. Do you know I had been giving Mike the information concerning this “big wolf” since October 2011? Where is the expose’ he did on him? That’s right…there was NONE. But of course, he’ll do Perry Stone, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, etc., cause we all “know” the charismatics have it wrong!
TO TOP IT OFF…He just did that Prophecy Conference in Missouri with who? Amongst other pseudo ‘christians’…Chuck Missler.
So save the fuzzy-feeling “love” talk. And start loving others BIBLICALLY…and don’t be afraid to take an objective look at WHOEVER is “teaching” God’s Word, even those you “know personally”; unless of course your defense is evidence of being a part of the “covert team”.
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.” (Eph. 5:11-12)
Mike Hoggard is a false teacher and the about us on Jazz’s sure Y not site exposes who and what they both are – LUCIFERIANS in the church!…AND I would even say that Bethel Church is a “front” for their nefarious agenda…
and sadly…there are many, MANY others!
excerpt from the “About Us” above
“You could pass by one of us on the street and not even notice.
We go undercover.
We remain behind the scenes.
It is of no concern to us who takes the final credit, but simply that the work gets done.
Occasionally, we spot each other in the street,
We give a quiet nod and continue on our way.
During the day, many of us pretend we that have normal jobs, but behind the false store front at night is where the real work takes place.
Some call us the Conscious Army.”
Hi Deb,
Sorry about the chew up the meat slang, it’s just an old Missouri saying and not scriptural. You have a very nice site and I can see you have worked very hard on it – good job. As far as Charles Frank that was my fault as well as he has no connection to my site or ability to write his own review. I am the one who wrote his description. I met him much the same way I met you as I was doing research on the underlying powers of the one world order and thought he could use some support in his efforts. Truthfully, I believe his efforts have little to no hope in materializing but we’ll see.
May I ask you a personal question? Where do you live? I only ask because the description of Charles Frank was just copied and pasted (by me) from the preamble of the Constitution of the United States at Cornell University. Charles is just a Constitutionalist who hasn’t yet come to the reality of Global government – yet… So Deb, what preachers and teachers do you consider to be squeaky clean and worth listening to? Can you give some names?
Hi John,
Very nice to meet you again, (you are Marion’s husband I hope) sorry it’s under these circumstances. I’m pretty sure I met you and Marion there at Bethel but only going once a month I could possibly have missed you all. I took a look at your blog. John I can really see a hatred for Mike Hoggard there that I don’t have for him. Just being honest with you John. For Mike’s sake I hope you are wrong, for your sake I hope you are right. Either way I will stay out of the controversy. Jazz’s demons are her own and I would not want to intentionally harm Mike Hoggard’s ministry anymore than I would want to harm Deb’s Ministry here.
I want to thank you all for taking the time to chat with me the last couple of days, I appreciate that and again Deb you have a very nice site – Keep it up. Unfortunately for me the topic is placing me out of character so if you all would allow me to leave you with a touch of the Apostle Paul, Romans and the Geneva Bible. I will close out on my part and end this as a gentleman who Love’s you all.
Bless them which persecute you: bless, I say, and curse not. Rejoice with them that rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be like affectioned one towards another: be not high-minded: but make yourselves equal to them of the lower sort: be not wise in yourselves. Recompense to no man evil for evil: procure things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as in you is, have peace with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him: if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with goodness.
I’ll check back with you Deb from time to time and see how you are doing – don’t forget to give me some of your favorite preachers and teachers.
Den
Den
I am all the way in deepest darkest Africa on the southern most part called South Africa 🙂
There are many good preachers, Dave Hunt for one, Mike Oppenheimer, (for now, until I find something that proves otherwise) etc, etc, etc.
I must say, your comment, “what preachers and teachers do you consider to be squeaky clean and worth listening to?” (squeaky clean equates to adhering to the truth and NOT FOLLOWING OCCULT TEACHING etc) I must say I usually get that question from NAR followers…
And there is NO Hatred by anyone here for Mike Hoggard, By openly exposing his false teaching, does not mean we hate him, yes we dislike the ERROR he preaches. Only someone who does not understand the Gospel would say something like that you did.
And what is love Den? I say it again…
If you love Jesus with all your heart and all your soul, you will automatically love your neighbor and preach the truth.
2 John 1:5 “And now I beseech you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
2 John 1:6 “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”
Africa, wow that explains the constitution question. Isn’t South Africa still owned by the Queen? Ha, just kidding. Yes, I like Dave Hunt, Mr Oppenheimer is a new one and I’ll check him out and I have never heard of NAR, but the squeaky clean quote – came from you. 🙂
“However… as a pastor he should be squeeky clean, he is the one that teaches others and God will hold him accountable for this.”
Sorry Deb, I saw no love for Mike Hoggard on John’s website and yes, I do know what Love is.
Have a Blessed Day (or night)
Den
Den
>> Isn’t South Africa still owned by the Queen?
Used to be, now we are quite socialistic 😉 just like the US of A, so I can give you some pointers on how to plant potatoes and get a good batch if you ever run out of food haha ! (really, tis true).
Ha, I LOVE taters – I’m a beans and tatters man. There is a severe drought here this year and we only received 4 fold on the tatter crop. Can’t fool you on Socialism then can we Deb. Most Americans still it is all still jolly good…
I know Love for Tatters and I know love for my fellow man. The King James Bible calls it Charity – I’m a Geneva man myself.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and Angels, and have not love, I am as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I had the gift of prophecy, and knew all secrets and all knowledge, yea, if I had all faith, so that I could remove amountains, and had not love, I were nothing. And though I feed the poor with all my goods, and though I give my body, that I be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing. Love suffereth long: it is bountiful: love envieth not: love doth not boast itself: it is not puffed up: It doth 1no uncomely thing: it seeketh not her own thing: it is not provoked to anger: it thinketh no evil: It rejoiceth not in iniquity, but 1rejoiceth in the truth: It suffereth all things: it believeth all things: it hopeth all things: it endureth all things. Love doth never fall away, though that prophesyings be abolished, or the tongues cease, or knowledge vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect, is come, then that which is in part shall be abolished. When I was a child, I spake as a child: I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass darkly: but then shall we see face to face. Now I know in part: but then shall I know even as I am known. And now abideth faith, hope and love, even these three: but the chiefest of these is love.
Love covers a multitude of sins…
Now the end of all things is at hand. Be ye therefore sober, and watching in prayer. But above all things have fervent love among you: for love shall cover the multitude of sins. Be ye charberous one to another, without grudging. Let every man as he hath received the gift, minister the same one to another, as good disposers of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the words of God. If any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God ministereth, that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom is praise and dominion forever, and ever, Amen. Dearly beloved, think it not strange 3concerning the fiery trial, which is among you to prove you as though some strange thing were come unto you. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings, that when his glory shall appear, ye may be glad and rejoice. If ye be railed upon for the Name of Christ, blessed are ye: for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: which on their part is evil spoken of, but on your part is glorified.
Pray you don’t fall off into the ocean before you hear that trumpet sound… 🙂
Hey Den
Please do not depart until you have given me a chance to respond.
I am exactly the same as Deborah, in that I have no hate for anybody. I only hate sin, deception, false teaching and the spirit behind all the deception. Please show me where I have said anything hateful in my comments. May be best if you can show the direct link to any comment I have made (you can find the link at the bottom of any specific comment) by copying the date,time of the comment). In fact, how can you determine my heart simply by looking at words.
As Deborah said, it IS a loving thing to do to warn those who are being deceived to save them from the deception. Maybe, you consider Paul to be unloving in his warnings to the Corinthians and Galatians. He even said that deceivers should be accursed. You cannot actually label Paul as unloving. He sold himself out for trying to save the church from false teachers and even wrote 1 Corinthians 13 which tells us how to love.
So again I ask, please qualify your statement. I for one love Mike Hoggard as a person and pray for him, but his teachings are dangerous to the church. We (as watchman) have a responsibility to expose error, because of our duty to the Lord and because we are deeply concerned for the large numbers of believers who are falling into such deception.
By the way, I am not related in any way to Marion.
God bless
Do not depart Tater man! Your presence is requested by John who is not Marion’s husband lol haha.
Den, thanks – I needed a good laugh today! Well, if Marion is John’s wife that was quite a commute for them to attend Hoggard’s church because John in located in the UK. And I think that they would be extremely incompatible. 😉
Both John and Debs speak the truth in love. They have entirely different styles that reflect their distinct personalities, but they have a common bond of love for the Lord and His truth and doggedly defend it, thereby incurring the wrath and ridicule of most.
There is no hatred expressed for Hoggard and his ilk who are misleading the sheep. It is the ERROR that we SHOULD hate as the Bible instructs. The Bible says to MARK them and AVOID them, not excuse their error. That is NOT love, but a perversion thereof.
CLARIFICATION…when Den mentioned he met me and John at Bethel Church (Mike Hoggard’s front)…He was correct, my husband John, who participated in the emailing of Mike in November, and I were at Bethel Church for their “Homecoming Celebration” in August of 2011. However, neither of us recall meeting a “Den;” he says he met us…maybe he did and didn’t mention his name to us…
AND you are right BL…it is the error and deception that we hate…ESPECIALLY when it is perpetrated by those who hold themselves out as “defenders of the faith”, “standing for truth” and “watchmen on the wall.” They need not fear the wrath of man, but a just God who will recompense according to their works. It is MIGHTY UNLOVING to “devour the sheep.” Those who do so ought to be exposed!
And YET, it would be better that they repent; for we serve a greatly compassionate God who is ready and waiting to forgive, desiring that NONE should perish!
(I hopt this posts, there are no links)
Burning Lamp wrote:
I have com to see that. But, I also reacted differently to the site at first 9as you will all certainly remember). So, I have done much thinking about that and about why we see such a difference in responses. Now, this might be the wrong thread for what I am going to say now, sorry. I think there are three main reasons:
Firstly:
This communication medium is tricky. You cannot hear someone tone of voice or see their body language, which experts say constitute up to 93% of communication. In the absence of those all important cues to help us decipher messages, we probably (just guessing) fill in from our own experiences and perspectives.
Secondly:
To learn that you have been deceived, that the ones you trust are really wolves in sheep’s clothes – is painful an scary. It often shakes the foundations of what you believe. So, you might want to rather “kill the messenger” and pretend it is not so. I know. I was there. Won’t bore you with the facts.
Thirdly:
This doesn’t look like anything like the Christianity many of us have been taught.
Allow me a moment to talk about my own experience here. I pray that you will see that, though I will use myself as example, it is not meant to be about me, but about our walk with Christ. A while ago, when I were making comments similar to some of those above, Deborah called me an Emergent. Though I found amusing (showing my ignorance), I was also slightly taken aback by it and I was curious as to the reasons why. Now, the fact is: I do not believe that all roads lead to heaven or any of the other things Emergent theology holds. Still, there must have been something in what I said that made her make that link. When I allowed the Holy Spirit to show me what it was, I realized to what an extent Emergent thinking had infiltrated the teaching in the “church” I used to attend. And, because, I have an issue confronting people (you wouldn’t say ;)), elements of this theology worked for me. Now, I was never exposed to what it really is, and I do know that each time I came across the more serious all-roads-lead-heaven messages, I recoiled. I was never an Emergent (I didn’t hold their beliefs), yet very subtle exposure to limited elements of Emergent thinking had infiltrated my own thinking and actions. It was quite an eye opener when I realized this.
What I am saying is that at the time I might not have thought “judging” me to be an Emergent was right or fair. I might even have judged it as “lacking love”. But, I have come to see it differently and I am really grateful for what I have learned through it. I am also saying that all of us (myself too) might sometimes judge people incorrectly based on their words in a medium like this, but the Holy Spirit is bigger than all of that and can use it to help us grow.
The Holy Spirit also taught me something else through this. That when I have Him on my side I do not need to defend myself. Yes, even though I was amused, my first reaction was to launch into a defense offense! Had I done that (well, I did, for a while, luckily those posts got deleted!), I might never have learned what I did. I learned that this is love: not to look the other way when the body of Christ or His message is harmed, but to turn the other cheek when I (feel I) am harmed. Big difference there. This has really been amazing road.
Hey John,
You could rework the header and copy and paste what you said about him above:
‘I for one love Mike Hoggard as a person and pray for him, but’: then you could add your evidence against him. Then you would at least have a touch of Love included in your article. John, the image of Mike Hoggard holding up his hand as a occult or freemason symbol is silly and not a benefit to your cause. I thought Mike Hoggard should see your page so I looked his email up and emailed him your link. I thought it was the least I could do considering the circumstances. You all might even make his Watchman video broadcast 🙂 Hope you don’t mind Deb.
Hi Burning Lamp,
That’s Great! I’m glad I gave you a good start for the day. That would have been a commute wouldn’t it? Lot’s of John’s – I should have known. lol
Hi Marion,
You have really took me on a Journey. From Festus, MO to South Africa to the UK and back to Missouri. It’s been quite a ride I must say. I don’t believe I was at Bethel for the homecoming – to tell you the truth I can’t remember but I missed a couple of months around then because my center manifold blew a gasket. I don’t guess I met you because had I met you I would have introduced myself and my daughter to you and John. We always sat on the back right row right in front of the exit door.
Marion, Pray for Mike and Jazz…
Well Deb, It’s been a pleasure. Sorry for agreeing to disagree…
Till next time.
Den
Hanelie
I gotta say you have truly done one incredible ‘about turn’. My mom reads this blog every day and she remembers you from a years ago, and she phoned me and said, “Is that the same Hanelie from back then?” I said, “yes, isn’t it wonderful”, and we both nearly shed a tear.
I pray…. Phil 1:6 “Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ”
Den,
>> John, the image of Mike Hoggard holding up his hand as a occult or freemason symbol is silly and not a benefit to your cause……I thought Mike Hoggard should see your page so I looked his email up and emailed him your link.
Den, that is not John’s website… It is someone else’s – who? We do not know.
John Chingford sent in an email to me:
TO DEN:
Thanks Deb
You are absolutely correct. The details given by Den are not contained within my blog.
The blog he is referring to is an entirely different one. He looked at Good Soldier of Jesus Christ (as given by someone on an earlier comment)
For clarification: my blog is called LAST DAYS WATCHMAN and can be found on:
[removed]
DEN, Please send Mike Hoggard another email telling him that you made a mistake
Whoa… Thanks Deb and John, I sent him another email telling him none of you all are the owners of that website and that nobody here knows who owns it. BTW you have a very nice site John… Thanks for the link. I’m sure glad I checked back in. Hi Hannele