Dr. Chuck Missler, SWANsat and the Auric Currency

carrie daniel says:

Thanks, I think your right. I do believe strongly that the “sons of God” were fallen angels and that the bible substantiates that the angels mated with human women. Other than that I don’t trust the guy either. Good article.

mom4truth says:

I’m so glad you posted this article. People squirm only slightly when I start calling out the Brian McLaren’s and the Rob Bell’s, the Beth Moore’s and the Max Lucado’s, but when you start talking about the Chuck’s, or Heaven-forbid, Dave Hunt (who is becoming increasingly undiscerning to the point that I will no longer read his posts), people really start to get angry. Recently, I came across some interesting info that proved a strong connection between the “beloved” Tim LaHaye and Sun Myung Moon (the Moonies- unitarian universalists). I also traced LaHaye’s mysterious free-mason symbology artwork on his books. There were many (religious leaders) on this list that were connected to Moon- including Hal Lindsey. When I start sharing that info with people- there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Burning Lamp says:

Mom4truth wrote:

Dave Hunt (who is becoming increasingly undiscerning to the point that I will no longer read his posts),

Could you please cite examples? I have received Dave’s and T.A. McMahon’s newsletters and updates for many years. I usually pick up on anything offbase and I have not detected anything. Dave who is elderly and has been suffering physically still continues to be faithful to serve the Lord. If you know of something I would appreciate particulars. Otherwise, this can be construed as a false accusation. I am NOT one to idolize people no matter who they are, but Dave has always deserved respect for his courage in taking many unpopular stands. Ditto for his partner, T.A. Please clarify.

Elmarie A says:

Deborah
>>I emailed Dave Hunt and asked him if there are any concerns on their side with Chuck Missler. I was pointed to a November 2009 newsletter Q&A where some of Missler’s teachings were addressed.<<

Thanks for this info.

Burning Lamp says:

I believe that Dave Hunt has called out Rick Warren, emergent and mysticism, etc. On the Tozer issue, there are concerns, but Tozer has come out strongly for discernment. I am much more concerned about people who endorse C.S. Lewis and the Narnia movies. Let’s pray for Dave – he is elderly and slowly recovering from surgeries. T.A. has had some serious health challenges recently also.

I do believe that Dave will call out Missler when he is fully informed. Dave is gracious and gentle, but when he comes out he is direct. I certainly hope he does so with Missler.

Another one that seems to be made of Teflon is Gayle Erwin. He comes out with a ringing endorsement of The Shack and he is still a star attraction at Calvary Chapel conferences. Go figure. Another thing – why are some many reluctant to call out Chuck Smith and Greg Laurie for endorsing Rick Warren? The silence is deafening. It seems that political correctness has done a number on the Church. Rebukes don’t have to be harsh, but they should be respectful and gentle, but none at all is unacceptable. What people don’t realize is that it is the loving thing to do. One can only wonder what the dead guys like Moody, Ironside, J.R. Rice, etc. would say in regards to the condition of the Church today?

I agree that we are seeing more and more delusion amongst leadership in churches and ministries. This calls for more and more vigilance and there seems to be less and less of it. People don’t want to hear about negatives. Unity at any cost.
But the Lord predicted exactly what we are seeing today. We just have to remain faithful, contend earnestly for the faith and leave the results to God. There will always be someone who will listen. We must remember to pray for our pastors and leaders to be kept from deception and to warn their flocks.

André says:

We are currently busy debunking your whole article about Chuck Missler and checking up on all the links and allegations you made…Quite serious ones – I might add…

To date, Michael Anthony has been one of the participants on this blog with the most Biblical balanced views and has truly put Biblical discernment towards each article written and published on this website. We find it rather alarming that on the topic which he warned you not to enter, you did not take heed and still published this extremely one sided article, which we found, is really a reflection of your own opinions, thoughts and interpretations of C Missler’s work -some of which it is clear you don’t understand and hence label as heresy.

Interesting that MA has seemingly decided not to continue contributing towards this blog – could it be because he has found, as have we, that you tend to disregard anyone’s opinion that doesn’t agree with you? Is that showing true discernment or is it exposing the fact that you have built your own dominion where what you say rules and where you won’t allow another’s sound opinion that might put you to error? It is every Christians responsibility to examine all things and then only make an informed decision or voice an intellectual opinion, but not before. This is extremely important if you are in a position where many Christians follow and read whatever you post. You cannot afford to publish own opinions or ideas.

On a personal note (which you can edit out if you would want to), we personally know MA and know that he is a true God fearing, God honouring and a gentleman. You, on the other hand, we’re not so sure of, seeing what you have done and how you’ve handled this current article as well as many others. He did offer to find out information directly from Calvary and Missler, before you published this article, as he knows the relevant people well. You chose to disregard this information from the source itself, ie Chuck Missler. You are only interested in publishing tabloid-like articles that will attract much of the same people as yourself – people not searching for the truth but for sensationalism.

Exposing error and heretics is correct. Beating the sheep on the other hand – be very aware of this. We will all give account of everything we did, regardless of our escatology. In this it creates humility, love, kindness, meekness and grace.

If you are interested in common sense, good discernment, non-tabloid like information, we can continue to discuss the Chuck Missler allegations.

I must let you know, and I’m speaking on behalf of many sound and good grounded South Africans Christians living abroad, that South Africa is riddled with heretics, false prophets, senstive seeking preachers, unlike any other ‘Christian’ country in the world. The problem here, is the people having difficulty to spot the sheep ie people and preachers.

Elmarie A says:

link for above.

http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/theshack.html

André says:

Deborah

No don’t take it out of context….. What was meant in the context it was written was: When you beat the sheep ie: Chuck Missler do your home work properly!! You had the oppertunity to find out the answers to your accusations before you published the article

No one was threatened and no one is trying to take you down from your own built castle

Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

Burning Lamp

Little bit of History. Michael Angelo used to comment on this site and was very pleasant. I then posted an article on the rapture here The Rapture – An Article to Knock Your Socks Off. During the conversation Michael mentioned Chuck Missler and I said that I am going to be honest and say that I don’t think he is as good as he makes out to be.

—————————
Michael Anthony
January 26th, 2010 at 10:15 pm

Edna,

Another Chuck Missler fan. And I thought I was the only one left.
—————————

Deborah (Discerning the World)
January 29th, 2010 at 10:35 am

Elmarie and Michael

Ok, I have to say this because you know well we are not here to lead people astray.

I have done a lot of research on Chuck Missler and he is not one bit ok. Just because someone teaches the rapture does not make then ‘Christian’. Just as someone can teach about Christ but does not make them Christian. Satan is not stupid. Michael you know that you look at the whole council of God before you make a conclusion that someone is really preaching the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ or not. You can’t just look at someone’s dispensation views and think they must be ok because they believe in a rapture.

I will post an article about this very very soon………
————————

Michael Anthony
January 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am

Debs,

I would not go down that route – I have listened to Chuck’s commentary on at least 12 books of the bible (that is the whole books) and have found not a single thing that I could say is suspect. If you are talking about the Y2K thing and the cosmic code thingymajik, the latter is highly misunderstood. The former; he has admitted to making mistakes and apologized.
I have read some of the common critiques of his teachings on the Internet, most of them are highly unbalanced and others just make up accusations. Either that or they don’t understand Chuck’s [very] indepth approach to bible teaching. Chuck teaching style is not everybody’s cup of tea.

On this one we highly disagree, unless you can come up with something explosive. For far I have not see any radioactive signs on his teachings.
—————————

Deborah (Discerning the World)
January 29th, 2010 at 11:31 am

Michael

I will go down this route. Because I am not going to critique the Y2K thing or his fascination with occult teaching and UFOS. No. It’s far worse than that. And yes we all make mistakes and we repent and then we change our ways.

You don’t have to agree with me, just let me write the article and then you can take it from there. It’s going to take me while to get too, probably have it up by Sunday evening or Monday. I am going on holiday so will be ‘missing in action’ again for periods of time.

In the mean time just relax like you are at the beach too ahha.
—————————-

I then left to go on holiday to the coast for 2 weeks. during the time I took all my latests findings and wrote the article offline. Before I published the article however things wents way off when Michael suddenly sided with Emergents ‘thinkers’ from another website. This website (PPP)wrote an article about my site based on an article that Michael wrote that I posted on my website for Michael here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/02/heresy-hunters-apologists-and-humourless-satirists Anyhow, near the end of the comments, Michael pops up and says I am an accuser of the brethren for an article I wrote on Rick Warren here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/04/rick-warren-gets-2-4m-in-donations Rick Warren a brethren? I think not. You can read the entire change in Michael’s attitude in the comments section of the “heresy hunters apologists….” article link above. Anyhowwww… and then my blog as per Michael just became trashy and stuff and the Emergents were more articulate and intellectual and he found more common ground with them.

Michael had already jumped ship into emergent seas before I even got around to posting the article on Chuck Missler.

So after posting this article I commented and asked Michael to give his thoughts cos he said he was open to hearing out what I had to say (see comments above) Instead ‘Andre’ appears to speak on Michaels ‘behalf’ and gives a raving review on Michael’s intelligence and Christian gentleman nature and in the process insults me (this is not the first time he has used that kinda wording as I mentioned above) and threatens me. And I really do see that comment as threatening and so have a few others who have emailed me quite concerned.

‘Andre’ wants to debunk my information. Well he must go ahead. The problem is, this information comes directly from Chuck Misslers website SWANsat where Chuck Missler put his curriculum vitae up for all to see. His same CV info is on the aliens website too which is Chucks website. The information I have quoted (which is supposed to be tabloidish) are actually Chuck Misslers words.

Another thing is if Chuck Missler has apologised for the Cosmic Code thing, WHY does he still promote the Bible Code and sell his cosmis code books? Why is he still hanging with Hal Lindsey, why has Dave Hunt already spoken with Missler re his latest book about being completely wrong in many many ways (http://www.thebereancall.org/node/8167).

I thought when you repented of something the idea was to stop doing it. So repenting and then carrying on doing the same thing is not an apology or genuine repentance.

And the reason I mentioned the Y2K thing was not really about the prophecy being false per se (because Chuck did apologised for this), it was more the fact that why would someone so clued up in computers say something so rediculous – I was approaching his Y2K thing from another angle. The main focus of this article is SWANsat and the AURic currency. Chuck Missler is a very intelligent, in fact a brilliant man but he is not one bit kosher.

Amanda says:

André

We find it rather alarming that on the topic which he warned you not to enter, you did not take heed

Now I am alarmed! What is going to happen to DTW?

you tend to disregard anyone’s opinion that doesn’t agree with you?

You cannot afford to publish own opinions or ideas

Now I am confused. DWT is berated for publishing her opinion, but others are allowed to have opinions?

You are only interested in publishing tabloid-like articles that will attract much of the same people as yourself – people not searching for the truth but for sensationalism.

Now I am offended.

André, you say you speak “on behalf of many sound and good grounded South Africans Christians living abroad” and that the “problem here, is the people having difficulty to spot the sheep ie people and preachers”. No, that is not the problem. Oh, wait. You only spotted one sheep among us and presumably dismissed the rest of us as sensation seekers not interested in the truth.

Do you speak emergent?

André says:

Hi Deborah (PLEASE DON’T PRINT)

I just want to say that i think you do a great job at DTW. I only disagreed on the Chuck Missler story and truly believe he is a sheep. Sorry for how this has become! I don’t often(if ever) go on blogs etc and i guess this proved that i shouldn’t

I might not be as polished,tacktfull or experienced in bringing myself over on text and the feeling being brought over is not what i really intend for

There is nothing sinister and i’m not M.A only a friend. My name is as my email says: Andre Steyn, i live in Australia en ek is n afrikaanse boer seun.

I honestly don’t know if M.A still reads your blog and sincierly regret dragging his name into what i have created. If i can humbly ask you to please delete all my mail that i mentioned his name. I would hate for him to see this

I will stay off this site to prevent another mistake

Take care and God bless you!!!!!!!

[EDITED: I have edited your private details out of this comment]

Elmarie A says:

Hmmmm my 2c worth.

One thing is very clear to me. DTW is not taking on CM on a personal basis, she is simply giving us a clear warning, to heed, to the cracks found in his teachings. The cracks are clear to me. It is obvious those who choose to follow CM teachings cannot say one day we did not know!! We are all just mere humans and we all can fall.

I can say for one i was not even aware of the cracks unitl this posting. Dtw thank you for doing what you are doing only out of LOVE for your fellow Christians and those still seeking Jesus.

Do people even realize how hard it must be for DTW to keep a Biblical balance on the articles posted. True discernment is not about attacking anybody in person. It’s purely to take note off the warnings.

DTW I thank you for your LOVE IN JESUS.

Gerard Willemse says:

It seems that you have quite a bit of negativity surrounding your articles Debz. I on the other hand completely commend you on your hard work and sacrifice it must take to do such intensive research.

I pray that peoples eyes will be opened by what you write. Just a pity that even Jesus Himself said that even the “elect would be deceived”.

Carry on Debz.

cecilia says:

>>> André, February 22nd, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Deborah,
The reason i asked you not to print my msg is because this is a public blog and i know that. But we are also individuals and more importantly we are christians and sometimes to show mercy and grace we have to make it personal. Making it public would be self rightous and that’s my reason for saying “don’t print”

I don’t know who André is, but my word, can he change his colours! Actually what I picked up from his comments is that (and I quote): “If i can humbly ask you to please delete all my mail that i mentioned his name. I would hate for him to see this

”

Could THIS be the exact reason why you didn’t want DTW to post your comment? now I assume André would apply the good lesson to “learn” from his mistakes? (of which the bigger one is to cover up…)

Very interesting: when this DVD about the planets came out first, me and my dad watched it together. My dad left the room (angry) about a quarter into screening – why? he said “this man is promoting the creation and not the Creator.” I did not see it from that point of view, but after finishing the DVD I felt “incomplete” (though it DID end with the cross in the sky!). what remained in my thoughts afterwards was the sounds that the planets (& stars) make and not thoughts about God. (well, that was just my observance, in my simple plain words).

cecilia says:

Gerard Willemse: a friendly word – her name is Debs, with an “s” nor a “z”. Jesus removed the lightning flash when He saved her! …… just wanted to say….
cecilia

cecilia says:

it’s fine D! I for one, am one of those people who belief that God is in control; so if He didn’t want my comment to be here, that’s it. it will be in your article anyways! keep standing then!

Jean says:

Louise…
Where do you live ? Only give your Province for now.
I do know of a few fellowships around the country where they teach TRUTH and try to live the Word.

Deborah…
Have you considered to maybe have a small section somewhere on your blog where we can “submit” fellowships or other ministries that we believe is kosher, on the condition that they should be willing to be submitted to some “checking-out” if required. (a checklist maybe..)
I do believe there are more people like Louise who is searching for TRUE teaching and fellowship.

Jean says:

Deborah
>>You know, you almost sound like I actually ‘feel’ right now. Poep tired, exhausted and a nervous wreck.<<

I can understand the "Poep tired" and the "exhausted" part BUT I don't see you lying under the sea on the the seabed shivering and shaking . . . THAT'S a nervous wreck ! 🙂

You have nothing top be nervous about ! BUT I bet you this guy does…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2tSlXq2wz4&feature=player_embedded

Look at this video and you will see him acting VERY cool to some investigating questions…
BUT just picture him before GOD one day . . .
NOW THAT WILL BE A DISPLAY OF A NERVOUS WRECK !!!!!!

cecilia says:

Oh, just received answer back!
Hello Cecilia, thanks for stopping by.

I checked a few of the passages and they all seem to be the English Standard Version (ESV). Concordia Publishing House do a superb ESV-based study bible, called the Lutheran Study Bible:

http://cph.org/t-tlsb.aspx
end of comment answer quote.

Russ says:

I tend to agree that Missler is starting to lose his wheels; calling him out as a heretic and liar is a bit far, through, IMHO. Second, I think it’s quite funny that you use Dave Hunt’s dislike of Missler’s latest book as a reason against Missler, and yet you would agree with Missler’s book that we are saved by grace alone, and not by works. If you’re saved by grace alone, then you’re saved by grace alone. You don’t get it by works, you don’t keep it by works, and you don’t prove it by works. Any of these three are simply putting works into the game through the front door or the back door.

I’ve not read Dr. Missler’s book, but I’ve read many others in this area, and find the pure Calvinist position logically contradictory and untenable. So, I’m not so quick to judge anyone on the basis of soteriology any longer. In fact, one of the first things I’ve learned in Seminary is that few people have a readily classifiable view, and it’s probably not the wisest thing in the world to jump down someone’s throat on this score, or to call them a heretic on this front. It’s best to listen, learn, and disagree quietly and with dignity, rather than with screaming and much affront.

I think Dr. Missler is just getting a bit older, watching his ministry decline from its heights, and pulling in people he probably shouldn’t be pulling in to try and build it back up. Mylon Lefevre did the same thing, and Billy Graham, and many others, I think. He’s getting bad advice, I’m afraid, at this point. So, warning taken, but don’t toss out the watermelon with the seeds, or there won’t be anything good left to eat in the entire world.

Russ

Russ says:

“Once saved always saved only counts when one was genuinely saved in the first place.”

And which of your works of vitriol and self-righteous anger prove you were saved in the first place? Thank God I don’t eat that deadly spiritual diet every day. If you can only prove you were “saved in the first place” through your works, then no-one is saved.

Of course, I’m certain you’ll anything I say and twist it completely, as you’ve done above. Twisting people’s words is a hard habit to break, isn’t it?

Russ

Russ says:

Now I’m Satan himself? You really do like to call people names, don’t you? Now I know why I got out of the heresy hunting business years ago. It was eating me up inside, making me mad all the time, looking at people searching for that one little thing that would prove how wrong they are, looking for any reason at all to tear them down, to destroy, to rip someone apart. Guilt by association, guilt by the slip of a tongue, whatever–I was always seeking out some reason to condemn, to find that one piece of “fruit” that didn’t fit, and proved, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that someone “wasn’t really a Christian.”

Come out of it. Your constant anger isn’t making you any healthier; you’ll just end up hating yourself before it’s over with. And if you’re going to post my comments, post the whole thing, not the part that you think makes you look good.

(Not that it matters, I won’t be back to read your blog after you’ve stooped to calling me Satanic.)

Russ

louise says:

Regarding Chuck I have asked the Holy Spirit to show me if he has any error. I have not as yet come across anything he has said which will make me run away. I have a few negatives about him personally, which I dont need to discuss here. I never take mans word for it. I listen, then seek the truth through the word and the holy spirit. If I find error I leave it alone. This method has taken me through Rhema, which I ran out when GOD said through his word “Come Out Of Her My People” a teaching I was listening to from John Mcaurthur. I shall heed the warning from this site but I shall leave it up to GOD to show me as I seek only his truth. I dont care to place man, Pastors or Preachers on any level. God always answers my prayers. Thank you. I do not attend any church as error lurks in every corner. Instead we have home fellowship and we have no leader but the Holy Spirit. Neither do we Tithe but God shows me who to bless by that quiet small voice I have.

louise says:

I printed it out for tonights study reading. I go through realms of paper. Trust me

Burning Lamp says:

I was sorry to see negative comments about Dave Hunt and LHT. Guys, can I exhort you to extend grace to these discernment ministries? We all need correction from time to time and when the critics who reject reality of error slice and dice us it is tough, but when we start to throw darts at each other, that is truly sad.

I don’t know what LHT did, somehow I missed that. But look at the courageous stands they take and the heat and hate they receive on a daily basis. If there is correction, keep it in the family and admonish with tenderness as did the Apostle Paul.

We are never going to agree on every single point. Take the observance of Christmas for instance. Some are very convicted in this area and abstain as they should, others choose to celebrate a holiday that is part of the fabric of society and use it to reach out to the lost.
This is different from Halloween that is clearly occultic.

The same goes with Resurrection Sunday. This is an area which we should reserve judgment. Follow your own convictions, but allow others liberty to follow theirs. To castigate Roger Oakland for his comments about Christmas is quite frankly, nitpicking. Roger has taken courageous stands for truth at great personal expense. And now he has been down for the count from a terrible accident and is still in the recovery process and is not able to be in ministry. To discount his ministry over this is short-sighted. Also, his assistant has gone through a horrible time with a brain tumor. Right now the ministry is limping along as best it can. We need to pray for these men who have sacrificed much for the sake of the truth.

Also, Dave Hunt who is in advanced years and poor health continues to faithfully write books and press on. T.A. has had serious health challenges the past couple of years. I have found his work to be very helpful except for a couple of very minor areas.

I do not believe that Dave is defending Missler. Dave weighs his words. Perhaps he is reaching out behind the scenes to correct. Let’s not be hasty to judge. Yes, hold him to account, but remember his advanced years and health challenges. Let’s pray for him and for Roger and others who are under attack.

As for LHT they are under constant attack and we need to hold them up in prayer and lovingly and gently edify them. We all need that from each other on the discernment team. These are perilous times and we can’t afford division in the discernment ranks.

Grace and peace to all!

mom4truth says:

Burning Lamp-

To start off, Debs isn’t just saying they are off on a little issue, she is concerned that they are promoting wolves amongst the sheep. I also emailed them about some of the concerns I had with Dave Hunt. Not on a “get em'” mission, but just asking if they were aware and to see if and how they were handling it. It’s not some little family issue, as you state, but if they are departing, even in subtle ways, we have to question that. I’m sure you would agree that Deborah would never handle them harshly, or more importantly, in an un-Scriptural manner, so why so much concern about a simple letter asking questions?

Did you actually read the quotes Roger Oakland made in the Christmas article? Take the idea of Christmas out of the fold, just briefly, and examine the quotes in light of themselves: He asks if we can become so pure and righteous that we can no longer live in this world. So, am I to assume that we should give up pursuing purity and righteousness, as we are compelled by the Lord Himself, simply because we can never attain perfection? Why should I not do everything in my human power to live unblemished from the world? IN the world, not OF it, right? I happen to live IN a world that, when I take my very young children to the grocery store from Oct to Jan, they are exposed to Halloween AND Christmas items, but the choice becomes mine if I choose to engage it and become OF the world. I cannot eliminate the pagan aspects of society, but by the grace of Christ, I can choose whether I engage them!

Further, Oakland takes the completely un-biblical stance that if we try to do things so right, the unbelievers of the world will think we’ve lost our mind. Since when are we to live parallel with the world in order to accommodate the comforts of the unbelieving of the community? “The message of the cross is FOOLISHNESS to those who are perishing, but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God!” 1 Cor 1:18. Couldn’t his argument be made over any decision we make not to partake in society’s sins? If we choose not to own a TV or go to the movies, people may think we’re out of touch, and that we’ve lost our minds, “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I SHOULD not be a servant of Christ.” Gal 1:10 My decision to pursue Holiness is for the glory of Christ, to improve my testimony in a world craving Truth, craving something different than the status quo- looking for a Christian who actually lives the Word. And I certainly don’t care if unbelievers think I’m weird! What most Christians don’t realize that by partaking in these pagan practices, we confuse the world. Jews don’t understand Christians that celebrate the pagan holidays of Christmas/Easter because they know the truth of their origins. The Lord drove them out of their land because of the spiritual adultery- swearing by the Lord, yet adopting the vain traditions of man. Instead of maintaining their purity, they simply began to partake in the pagan practices, customs, and holiday’s of the pagan nations that surrounded them. You can go to many Wiccan sites and see that they often times mock Christians around Christmas for our ignorance on its true origins. Do we not think that compromises our testimony?

Further, Oakland says that if we choose not to participate in Christmas, we lose our right to share the gospel with our “neighbors” any other day of the year. How does that make sense? We have 365 days a year to share the gospel of Christ, but we have successfully convinced ourselves that we need to adopt the Festival of Saturnalia to strengthen our testimony? Imagine a church that dared say, “We don’t subscribe to the pagan practices of Babylon, nor the equally as offensive practices of the Roman Catholic harlot religion, but only Truth. And here, 365 days a year, that’s what you’ll get- not some culturally-tailored message to accommodate the unbelievers of our community.” If I ever started a church, that would be my motto!

So, you say it “castigates” Oakland to question his un-Scriptural comments and that it is nit-picking. Okay. I will nit-pick the tar out of someone who is clearly violating Scripture with his man-made opinion. Nothing he says is Scriptural! And if he can nit-pick Scripture, than I will use Scripture to nit-pick his opinions.

You also say it is short-sighted to discount a ministry for this reason. Well, if said ministry is forming opinions not absolutely grounded and contracted from Scripture, it seems to me that they discount themselves. Second of all, I find it interesting that discernment ministries will clearly point out the connections of the emergent church and the contemplative spirituality movement to the Roman Catholic Church, in fact, there are books out that speak of all road’s leading to Rome. A book authored by Oakland himself, warns of that trend. We can watch the Protestant churches of today beginning to adopt all of the trends of the RC Church- Stations of the Cross, vain prayer repetitions, candles, incense, even Mary-veneration and we are warned against this, but yet, we think God will simply wink if we partake in their pagan traditions/holidays because the greeting card companies say it’s okay? Or because, “Every body else is doing it!” This mass-following ideology is exactly why masses are falling into deception- because they find power in numbers, but yet Scripture gives examples of people who stood alone in their community, against the grain, to follow God. It seems to me Scripture exhorts us that we should avoid mass consumption to follow the narrow way that leads to everlasting life.

In regards to the celebration of Christmas, when God says in Rev 18, after having clearly defined in Rev 17 and 18 the harlot religion, to, “Come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues,” he is saying do not participate in her behaviors, nor in her traditions, or we will, in turn, receive of her plagues! Acts 17:30 says,”And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.” We don’t get to live a life of ignorance if we want to truly deny ourselves, pick up our crosses, and follow Christ- we must repent of behaviors we could once claim ignorance of, and walk in the light of Truth. I hear many Christians say Halloween is clearly wrong, but Christmas is questionable. Halloween AND Christmas come from the same pagan backgrounds. One Satan has succeeded in fooling only the majority of the masses in, the other he has convinced the multitudes. I’m sure you can tell which is which. Satan masquerades as an angel of light- he won’t just use the pitchfork holiday to deceive God’s people! Eph. 5:11, “But have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them!”

Burning Lamp, that is 2 posts where you point out the physical ailments of the leaders spoken of, and also the elderly age. I appreciate your compassion, but find it lacking Scriptural support. I don’t mean this to be trite, but Noah was 600 years old when he built the ark! And he only lived another 350 years after the flood. So he was OLD, but even in the age context of his time, he was WAY over mid-way and God called him “just” and “perfect in his generations”, saying, he “walked with God”- meaning he separated himself from the wickedness of his culture and followed the Lord. The same is said of Enoch. It said he lived 365 years, and he “walked with God.” Job was afflicted with health issues and never once gave into the temptation to compromise in his faith. The Lord promises us he would give us the strength to endure temptations (trials). Romans 5 gives us a clear description of the benefit of trials. Further, Proverbs tells us, “The hoary (gray) head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness.” Gray hair is a crown of glory to those who have walked in righteousness- age does not mean your testimony or Scriptural truths should be compromised! I hear a lot of people using age to explain away Billy Graham’s comments- and I say False! Age doesn’t deceive! Rather, we should be MORE grounded in truth at the end of our lives!

What I hope you and others like you, who view it as a negative to call out wrong teaching from even those we’ve come to know and love, is that it is only negative if we neglect to say something. Scripture tells us that if we really love our children, we will discipline them, right? But yet, our perverse generation has people convinced that we show our love by letting them get away with whatever they want. God’s kingdom is different. He knows growth can only happen if we are willing to hold each other accountable. Think about Paul and Peter (Galatians). By your definition, Paul should have left Peter alone simply because he always had said the right things- afterall, he was a disciple of Christ Himself. But Paul, out of love for the disciples, out of love for Christ’s church, and mostly, for the love of Christ Himself, Paul confronted Peter, and the other disciples, who dared teach a different gospel. It was because of love for the Truth! We must speak out against wrong or false teaching! Why? Because we claim allegiance to Christ, and Christ alone. Again I proclaim Eph. 5:11.

I do agree that we should be praying daily for discernment ministries and any other pastor we see traveling the wide road, but this “feel-good” message of, “Poor babies- just leave them alone” comes not from Scripture…With Russ and the many others I see come on here at every turn to defend the leaders they think are fine against the righteous way we are to call them out, I say, “Get thee behind me, Satan…”

Burning Lamp says:

Mom,

if you knew me you would know that I take a very strong stand for truth – I respect no man/woman/person over the Word of God. I have seen teacher after teacher, pastor after pastor who I have respected fall into apostasy. I do not for a minute believe that Dave Hunt and T.A. Macmahon fall into that category. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt based on their faithful service in defense of the faith and the truth. We all make mistakes or are you the exception? I am not excusing Dave because of his age – but I do respect him and realize that it may take him a little longer to respond. He is always very careful to get his facts straight. I think I owe him for the many ways he defends the faith and takes horrendous heat for doing so. He is one of the few who has dared to expose Billy Graham.

Are you aware of what a devious teaching Calvinism is for instance? He took this on when no one else had the courage to do so and got raked over the coals for it.

Now Roger Oakland. Perhaps you would like to take a walk in his shoes. You are ready to throw out all the good work he has done for the Lord because of some remarks he made about Christmas? I know a good number of godly men of God who celebrate Christmas – you should read John R. Rice’s little book I Love Christmas and see how he expounds on it and answers the concerns about the paganism. This is NOT something to cause division. If you are so particular then you would have to throw out your calendar because all the names have pagan roots.

Roger Oakland is one of the most courageous and remarkable men of God of our time. He has been the butt of jokes from others who call themselves Christian. Then he suffered a terrible accident that left his brain disabled and he is still recovering. Talk about kicking someone when they are down!

You would discount someone’s ministry because they suggest that a Christian could celebrate Christmas and use it for God’s glory? Are you condemning every believer who celebrates Christmas or Easter as sinning? You certainly have the right to your convictions, but please don’t judge so harshly those who have not reached that conclusion. This happens to be something you feel strongly about and that is fine. If you are convicted about it you should act accordingly.

Personally, I use the Christmas custom to share our testimony of what the Lord has done in the past year with those we only contact once a year. I have a friend who gets vehement if anyone mentions Christmas. This does nothing for the cause of Christ!.Opportunities abound to give witness of the Lord and share the Gospel. We demonstrate the true meaning of Christmas as a witness to our neighbors. It opens the door to be able to witness. This is a holiday that neither you or I can change. Trust me, I am just as much against pagan influence as you are. But there are much more sinister and sneaky forces at work that we often miss while dwelling on the obvious.

We have to pick our battles. There are countless abberant teachings and false teachers and religions. There are many errors. We have to choose the ones we take on.

Bottom line, I am going to cut Dave and T.A. some slack and let them deal with the Missler issue. Perhaps there is something going on behind the scenes we don’t know about. I am just saying let’s not be so quick to criticize. Dave has been a living sacrifice for the Lord as has T.A. If he falls into deception I will be the first to call him out.

Bob, says:

Deborah,

Great post on Missler. He’s definitely an anti-Christian globalist.

Andrew Williams says:

A comment from me on this. Chuck Missler is promoted by some discerning christians as you say. I’ve never understood why. He seems to be into some very strange stuff (UFOs and all that) which has nothing to do with Biblical faith.

I thought that Deborah’s second paragraph was particularly perceptive (Chuck’s teachings fitting in with his business interests). This is a standard marketing practice found not just in the world, but also in some less than scrupulous branches of the church. You create fear (where none previously existed) and sell a product that takes away the fear.

Worldly example 1: there are lots of burglars around and your home could be next, but buy an alarm system from me and they’ll choose another house.

Worldly example 2: your business could be prosecuted if it’s health and safety paperwork isn’t up to scratch, but buy my book and you’ll be able to do it all.

Church example 1: you find it hard to understand the Bible and may risk going off the path of sound doctrine (which could put your salvation in doubt), but everything I preach is 100% correct so subscribe to my weekly teaching tapes and I’ll explain it all to you.

Church example 2: the end-times are coming, christians will be persecuted and be unable to buy food unless they have the mark of the beast, but buy my book and I’ll show you how to be self-sufficient.

So I take a very dim view of this sort of thing.

jlbriem says:

Saul was a Roman citizen by birth, of Tarsus, a student of Gamaliel, circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the stock of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to him, those he counted loss for Christ.
Paul could converse in the theology, religion, politics, poetry and history and culture and mythology of his day. When Paul spoke in Acts 17: 17-33, he spoke of “THE UNKNOWN GOD”, and by doing it Paul spoke to them of Christ resurrected.

Can you discuss the topics of our day and bring to mind Christ resurrected?

Today any conversation with any person, anywhere at anytime, could result in approaching the dreaded three topics: sex, religion and politics. What does the word of truth say about those subjects? Can you rightly divide the word of truth on these three subjects and bring to mind Christ resurrected? II Timothy 2:15

If those three subjects become uncomfortable, the subject might well become any other number of odd topics. UFO’s, Atlantis, King Arthur, Black holes, sports, global finances, dog training, everything from Super Novae, to radiometric dating, evolution, movies, to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and any endless number of subjects from witchcraft to automobile racing and comparative religion are possible.
You can choose your own list. I guarantee that if you live in this world with humans who are still breathing and still possessing the ability to speak, odd subjects will come up, and unless you hide your belief in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, you will be asked to explain the hope that lies within you. At that critical place you will make a decision. You will either share from the wealth of your personal opinion or if you have been diligent and studied, you will do your best to explain it from the word of God.

You decide what is preferable. God will decide what he thinks is best.

I wonder how many actually read Acts 17:11 before listening to Chuck Missler? It is the cornerstone of his approach. Get the people to check it out themselves. Make up your own mind and be diligent. Read and study, and test and prove.

Matthew 24:15 Read it. Mark 13:14 Read it. Jesus says whoever reads it, let them understand! There is no way around this one!

That means you!
Can you understand it?

If you cannot understand the importance of Daniel chapter 9, I suggest you get yourself a little free time and learn to understand it. If Jesus is your King and Lord, why would you resist his words in the middle of his personal teaching on the “sign of his coming”, and “the end of the world”.

There are many excellent commentaries and books on the subject. Read a bunch of them and as many as you can until you are reasonably familiar and understand it. Barnhouse and Walvoord are very good and very readable. The Coming Prince, by Anderson is excellent and a gem but sometimes is a little difficult. Understand that there are different opinions within the context of scripture, learn them and then submit your work to God as one who needs not be ashamed.

If you want multi media I suggest Chuck Missler and his Daniel DVD’s. If you cannot afford it, you can find the sections on Daniel 9, online on Youtube
or Google video for free. They are excellent.

Whatever way you do it, learn the material. Do not cheat yourself.
Everything points us in only one direction.

HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD

jlbriem says:

Deborah (Discerning the World):

I always want to hear about Jesus and I have Bibles. What makes you think that Chuck Missler would cheat me?

Hmm! 1/4 only, I shall try to clear that up! If I walk around the issue a bit, please be patient with me. You copy and paste large amounts of data into your website.

Acts 17:10, Acts 17:11. If I am going to act like a Berean it will take me sometime to actually go through all the references you include. I guess I need to clear up a few points before I can explain what is meant in my comments which you kindly allowed in your website.

Thanks for the using software in your website which shows scripture verses when the cursor is placed on it. It will save me some time typing out the verses. I think technology is great. Some people do not.

Romans 14:14 Technology can be a great thing and is not unclean of itself. Romans 14:22 If you thought that technology was evil and still used it, you would condemn yourself and not be happy. Romans 14:23

You have a computer and have a website. You allow it. Be happy in faith before God.

Romans 14:17 The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink.

Is it evil according to the word of God to have a computer and a website? It is an acceptable and yet difficult question. I know people who think that because so much of the computer and internet is used for pornography, the technology itself is evil. Are we evil for being online or for using technology in general?

How do you prove or disprove the question with scripture?

We both accept technology even though the word computer and website are nowhere in the text of scripture. That is a fact. How does a person get past this point and still do what is legal and acceptable in their life before God.

How do you do it?

This is how I do it!

In Romans 14:17, I allow myself the liberty before God for “meat and drink”, to be a kind of substitute for computers and websites and technology in general. I trust the Lord to understand and not be displeased. Jeremiah 10:23, Jeremiah 10:24 In my life I trust the Lord to be gentle in all those areas not clearly specified in scripture and yet still a part of my life. Micah 6:8 always applies when there is any doubt.

Romans 14:14 Technology can be a great thing and is not unclean of itself.

Accusing anyone of heresy because you think that a certain technology such as SWANsat is bad and that involvement with it by itself is evil, is contrary to the spirit of the text. Was the inventor of television evil because Revelation 11:9 says that “they … shall SEE their dead bodies…”.
I think not. It may not be television at all. What you imply is your personal business but to call your personal opinion about Chuck Missler a violation of Christian law is unacceptable. If you have clear proof that they intend SWANsat for evil and knowingly express that fact, show it. If you do not, than it is nothing more than your opinion and a shallow one at that.

That is my first point!

My point is not simple but then neither is the Book of Romans. Issues of the law concerning devotional matters, personal and private matters, or public actions are difficult in themselves.

You make very serious public accusations and judgments in the name of Christ about people and groups in your website without consistent documentation. Some of the groups are clearly nonscriptural and are not Christian by their own words. Some of them are clearly professing Christ resurrected and declaring him as Lord and King and you still declare them heretics. You make declarations on legal issues and act like an apologist.

If you want to act like a lawyer you should expect to be treated like one. Hiding behind a phrase like,”be gentle, I bruise easily” does not work in a secular non believing courthouse and we as Christians should live by a higher standard of ethics anyway. But you seem to relish the power you have to delete and the proxy authority you use because it is your website. If you cannot make an explanation for your positions, what you do is nothing but gossip and slander, even if it is hid behind mountains of copied and pasted things. Having a group of people who agree with you through constant postings does not change anything. Even the unbelieving world understands the concepts of slander and misrepresentation and allows for civil penalties under the law.

You make unsupported and silly statements sometimes. Here is one. Rockwell International:
A multifaceted company that worked in the manufacturing arena for defense and space industries. Rockwell International are Freemason/Illuminati.

Please note the webpage. (http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM5MXN_Chet_Holifield_Federal_Building_AKA_The_Ziggurat_Building_Laguna_Niguel_CA)

I lived in Southern California. I remember finding this building while driving around looking for a place to eat. I have seen it and I have been on the property. There was no security or fenced enclosure; it was empty and unoccupied for years. Whoever built it lost a lot of money. No conspiracy here. The government got the office space cheap. Rockwell left the building long before the government started using it.
Rockwell International are the people who built the Space Shuttle. Good job and a job well done. They are people like you and me, working hard and feeding their families. Over 78,000 employees*. Some of them, and I mean Rockwell Employees, may be Shriners and drive the little clown cars in parades but to make them all Freemasons/ Illuminati shows that you understand neither. It demeans you and insults them.

* http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Rockwell-International-Corporation-Company-History.html
Not so long ago Chuck Missler was at the:

God’s News Behind the News International Prophecy Conference 2000 – Orlando Florida, 5-8 April 2000

Do you have a copy of his message delivered on that day? You have no link to it. WHY NOT? If you cannot judge him on what he said, what are you judging him for? Are you judging him for hidden secret things that only you know?
Are you implying that simply by being there he was guilty of something? If that kind of logic is used, we should never preach to the sinners because just being around them makes us guilty of heresy by absorption. If you are talking about something you know, say it and document it. Statements without support when you talk about people are called gossip. When it defames a person it is called slander. Truthful statements are never considered slanderous or gossip.

You have taken the time to include a reference:

Jackie Alnor from Apostasy Alert tried to contact Chuck Missler on why he attend this conference but did not receive a reply from him. http://www.apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS/quantum.htm

Lets look at what she said about Chuck Missler and include every comment.

1. Chuck Missler: “Chuck was encouraged by his close friend Hal Lindsey to pursue his long-time love of teaching the Bible on a full-time basis. Chuck had spent over twenty-five years teaching the Word of God under Pastor Chuck Smith at Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa. Koinonia House was soon formed, with the mission to encourage people to seriously study the Bible as the inerrant Word of God” (Answer: all true )

2. With the exception of Chuck Missler, the speakers sound like a bunch of spiritual alchemists who think they can make angels appear, change reality by the power of their own words, and impart power to others. (Answer: Chuck is the exception and the others are weird and unscriptural by Jackie Alnor’s definition. I no nothing about them at all. I have listened to Chuck Missler and he documents his comments and makes them available to check and research. )

3. But how did Jones get replaced by Chuck Missler in this conference? He stands out as one coming from an entirely different camp than the others. He has ministered in Calvary Chapel circles for decades while the Kansas City Prophets element in the church has always been suspect to any Bible-believing Calvary Chapel leader (Answer: He got lucky and I suspect that they were unused to hearing someone preach Christ Resurrected and that salvation comes only through the shed blood of Jesus. I would think that most of them regretted his attendance.)

4. Maybe they just recognize some of the common ground they share with Missler who has toyed with the mystical realm in some of his books and teachings on Y2K, “Cosmic Codes – Hidden Messages From the Edge of Eternity,” and “Alien Encounters.” (Answer: The titles are probably why he got in the door. What he thinks and teaches about those subjects is completely different than the other speakers. Where in these lessons does he not preach Christ crucified and ressurected? Y2K was a serious technical problem with computers and timekeeping and had nothing to do with spiritual things. By the grace of God the best case scenario happened at Y2K. Nothing happened. Many people were worried, I was not. Chuck Missler did not write the Torah! Underlying structure in the Torah is there. It is not the DaVinci or the Omega code of the movies. Ask an orthodox Jew if he knows anything about it. Nothing is unclean of itself and if you do not like the titles that is your problem. Talking about odd issues is not criminal. If he is scripturally wrong, quote the mistakes and make your point. If you do not listen to what he says but judge only by the title of the lesson it is simply foolishness. We all can speculate on weird things without sinning before God, and if we do sin we have an Advocate to speak for us before the Father, Jesus Christ.)

5. I attempted to contact Missler for his comments, but he did not reply to my emails and his staff intercepted my phone calls and wouldn’t patch me through. I couldn’t get any further than Missler’s assistant Gordon McDonald. He seemed unfamiliar with Gateway or Elijah List but brushed off my concerns with the statement that Missler does not turn down any requests for him to speak as long as he is given liberty to say what he wants to say. He dismissed all of my objections that Missler sharing the stage with mystics and false prophets could stumble many young believers who could assume Missler’s involvement was an endorsement of any and all teaching and actions that might occur. Since the names Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel were used in the advertising, could this be a ploy to draw in unsuspecting Christians to a gathering where deceiving spirits are welcome?

(Answer: He does not have to reply to Jackie personally and not talking to her is not proof of a conspiracy. For all she knows he could have been in New Zealand and unavailable over the phone. She did talk to someone and was not satisfied. The fact that Gordon is unfamiliar with Gateway and Elijah list means nothing. I am unfamiliar with them as well. It is probably a good thing. It is not for Jackie to be the judge of where Chuck Missler goes or what he says. He is an educated, experienced and bible believing Christian. “could this be a ploy”? Jackie does not know if it is a ploy so the comment is meaningless and just speculation and conjecture. She cannot know. Who is she to judge the intentions of a man before God without any proof of any kind.)

6. So the question remains: Will Missler speak up against these dark teachings when he takes the platform or will he go on as if they’re all one big happy family? If anyone can attend Quantum Leap-2, please report back so that leaders in Calvary Chapels who are booking their next pastors conferences will know whether or not to include Missler on their own rosters. (Answer: I do not see any mention by Jackie Alnor that she received any video, audio, or text materials from that meeting or that she listened at any time to any of it. She did not attend and does not know what went on. She should be quiet and mind her own business unless gossip is her business. Since she did not attend the conference, her concern over what a Christian teacher and a pastor said or did at that conference, is based only in her own doubt and from her own worries, the rest is silence and unproven accusations. The fact is that her lack of support quietly implies an appearance of evil even if there is no proof of it. That is unbiblical, unethical and wrong. The law demands evidence and testimony before guilt can be proven. By the way, what are her credentials that you receive her accusations so quickly without any knowledge about a matter and doubt someone who has been speaking in public and teaching scripture for over 30 years. I am fairly certain that at no time do the Pastors of any of the Calvary Chapels ask Jackie Alnor for her advice on whom they book and who they allow to speak. I know they do not ask me and they do not ask you either. Why would they?)

I have a question. You do not say anything at all about( Chuck Missler of Koinonia House sponsored: The Malta Expedition – 2004, ‘Exclusive Archaeological Cruise Event’ . ), other than to describe it. Is it a problem in your philosophy to visit a place that may have a dubious history? If so, why do you feel that way and what scripture do you use to support this view?

Vad Yashem, holocaust day is just past us. Does a visit to Auschwitz imply a problem in a person’s theology? If it does, what problem do you see? Does it imply that the person visiting Auschwitz is a Nazi? What if the person is Jewish? If it does not imply a problem, what is the problem with a visit to Malta on a biblical tour to the Mideast?

It baffles me unless you are accusing by subtlety that somehow a visit to Malta means that Chuck Missler is up to something evil because something evil happened there in the past.

You do not sound like a hater and I just do not get or understand the anger and lack of detailed support of your position. I could be wrong. You might be a hater. I hope not.

I have not finished reading about SWANsat and I cannot comment on it at this time. There is a lot to read.

Thank you for your time and patience. When posted I look forward to your response.

John says:

Chuck and Perry are both Freemasons products of the Order of the ages, the “non-luminaries,” exalting what is in man. TBN, God Channel, CTN, CTC, Daystar are satanic without doubt. Their function is to deceive real Believers in Christ while they help set the stage for the man of lawlessness.

The twisting of scripture gives opportunity to slip teachings of the occult. My advice is not to have any lay their hands on you. These are the same that meet and agree with binding oaths speaking against real people of God. These are facts not some theory. I would say to anyone that has an ear to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying, to seek out asking the Father by the blood and in the name of Jesus. If you are serious and are wholeheartedly desiring His perfect will, be prepared for rude awakenings of truth while your beliefs will be challenged with the revealing truth by the Holy Spirit. This will set you on an adventure of being awakened realizing what scriptures really do say. May the grace and peace of the LORD Jesus Christ be on them that fear the Most High God who also sets the stage for His soon coming.

Pastor David Hall says:

Hello, this is the first time I have posted to this site. I was raised in the Watchtower religion, otherwise known as Jehovah’s Witnesses and remained in the Cult for 49 years after having been ‘convinced’ that I was in the ‘Truth’ as every JW knows it as. But something deep inside me always felt I was not hearing the whole truth about them and what they believe.

When I first got onto the internet in 1999 the first thing I typed in was Jehovah’s Witnesses and I then realised what a satanic religion I was involved with. Every JW is inculcated with the coming ‘New World’ New World Order’ or ‘New System’ as we often called it.

Whilst doing my research into the history of Watchtower Society I was amazed at how it wa sfounded on freemasonry and the occult.

Russell the founder of the religion used many Enochian magic terminology, like ‘Golden Age’ ‘Millenial Dawn’ and even ‘Watchtower’ and he used the pyramid and the Knight of the Templar cross and crown emblem. He also used the wings and eye of horus symbol as used by Chrysler, Bentley, Mini and other famous marks.

After a while both my wife and I got out of the cult in June 2001 and finally accepted Jesus as our only WAY, TRUTH & LIFE in November 2002.

However the Masonic had affected us both and it was until around a year after we became Born Again that we attended an advanced training seminar of breaking off connections with freemasonry and similar cults. At that seminar as we were renouncing Masonic oaths that may have been spoken by fathers of grandfathers, that I started choking and fell to the floor.

The Lord told me that it was the neck tie that we were commanded to wear at JW meetings and knocking doors. I did not even have a tie on at that seminar and have not worn one since geeting out of the cult.

I know I giving quite a bit about us here, but getting onto the subject of Chuch Missler, I see similar things with him as the JW hierachy. I just cannot listen to him for very long and yet I have some of his CDs and have tried to watch him.

I do aggree with the fallen angels marrying women as that is Biblical and I wa staught that from a child in the WT.

Many of these false prophets/teachers, such as Rick Joyner, Rick Warren, Bob Jones and many others are so cunning.

Since we have been out I have been studying Theology and have had to change much of what I believed as a JW and even since accepting Jesus Christ.

For the past 3 years we have lived in Cyprus and that was only because the Lord gave my wife visions of a place that we did not know at the time. It turned out to be Cyprus, which is a place that my wife never wanted to come to as it gets very hot here and it is 2000 miles from our 2 daughters and 5 Grandchildren in the UK.

However as the Lord sent us here, we now totally trust that he has a purpose for us here. My wife is leading some Cypriot women to trust in the Lord as they are nominal Orthodox Christians and they have many icons and false teachings. But they need the love of Jesus Christ and to know what he really wants from us.

Anyhow I have gone on quite a bit. Our testimonies are on http://www.4jehovah.org and web site for getting JWs and Mormons out of their cults. My testimony is under David and my wife is Christine.

Blessings
David

Pastor David Hall says:

I have just had a quick look through the article on Jehovah and tend to agree with what is written. In my unearthing of Freemasonry teachings and various degree’s, it is quite obvious that the name is used by these satanists as a password into the higher levels of the demonic Masonic degree’s.

The name is also combined with Baal and Osiris to form Jah Bu Lon which is the satanic name of God to the Masons.

So the name Jehovah is no longer a nice name as far as I am concerned and makes me cringe when I now hear it spoken out.

Thank God for Yeshua our Lord and King

Blessings

David

Alan says:

Hello All,

JUst this past week I had a quite heated discussion with a friend, about whether or not we should be “naming and shaming” as she put it. She said her problem with people calling people false teachers or false prophets, is that it’s like brothers fighting, which is not really the case, because the fact that these people preach and teach untruths, is evidence that they are probably not brothers in the Lord.
I feel that there needs to be a caveat here though, because there are some who are saved, but are in the process of being deceived, which will end in their apostasy if someone doesn’t get their attention and get them to be Bereans as they should have been doing, searching the scriptures to check all things.
(Anyone who doesn’t believe true believers can be deceived to such a point will have to explain to me why Jesus and every writer of every book in the New Testament warns against deception and deceivers. If we can’t be deceived to the point of losing our salvation, then all such warnings are pointless, because they are warning us against something that can never happen. I don’t believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit are in the business of wasting time and effort warning us of something that can’t ever happen.)
There are others, such as Rick Warren, et al, who are actually either apostate, or so deceived they are incapable of hearing the Truth. Either way they are NOT brethren.

I have spent a week thinking and praying and reading, seeking a way of getting the message across (no, MY message, not E. Peterson’s blasphemous tome), and the Lord showed me something, which shows absolutely a logical reason why we MUST speak out and identify false teachers, preachers, and prophets, etc. I have written a statement, then a logical series of questions:-
1. In many places in scripture these false ones are called ‘Wolves’ (usually in sheep’s clothing).
2. What do wolves do to sheep and why would they dress themselves in sheep’s clothing?
3. What are shepherds supposed to do if and when they discover a wolf in amongst the flock (with a fleecy overcoat or otherwise)?
4. How much consideration should the shepherd give the wolf, if any?
5. If the shepherd does NOT take the appropriate action, what does God’s Word say of him?
Let’s answer the questions and see where we end up:-
2. Wolves eat sheep and the fleece cloak is to allow them to get close enough to do so in peace.
3. Kill or drive off the wolf (or wolves)
4. According to this illustration, NONE. ( Of course there MAY be some hope of converting the wolf, but that would be way down the list of priorities. The sheep and their safety come first)
5. God calls shepherds who allow harm of any sort to come to the flock; “Hirelings”, and has very harsh things to say to them.

There are just a few more things that can be said here, it is loving to hear or see someone heading off the path of doctrinal purity and say nothing because that would be ‘judgemental’?
There are two aspects to this; firstly, the preacher who is straying into heresy needs someone to pull him back onto the path, before it’s too late.
Supposing you went to someone and told them that you had made some bad choices and landed in a fix and they turned ’round and said; “Well I knew that this would be the end result of your choices, way back when.” Would you say; “Thankyou so much for being so caring and non-judgemental!”, or would you not say; “Why on earth didn’t you TELL me I was heading for trouble?”
Then there are the members of the congregation, who are being led astray by their deceptive/deceived pastor.
If a friend came to you and said that they’d been conned out of all their money and you said; “Well I knew that guy was a crook from the get-go.” I’m betting your friendship would take a pretty big nosedive!
In fact, I don’t think they’d regard you as any sort of friend!

Nobody likes to be the bearer of bad news. Also, nobody likes to be the one to have to tell another person they have made mistakes in their life, but these are vitally important requirements for a Christian.
I have deliberately NOT put in any texts, because I believe that in this instance, it’s better that you (whoever you may be), look up ALL the relevant scriptures yourselves. I find that I learn more from the Lord when I have to dig for the texts on a subject myself.

God bless,
Alan.

Valerie says:

Alan,

Thanks for your post. I have been wrestling with this issue for some time. I have always been taught once saved always saved, but I do no see that taught strait out in the Word. You have to make inferences. Like you said, God is always warning about deception and warning not to deny Him. If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father.

I was in Hebrews this morning and the fact that Essau sold his birthright really stuck out to me. How is that possible to sell your birthright? He gave up his rights as a firstborn son. So people will say, how can you become unborn, once you have been born again. I can’t explain it either, but then how could Essau sell his birthright? Also, how can someone deny Christ if they never knew Him.

The bottom line for me is that no one “loses” their salvation, they despise their birthright and the result is that they lose their inheritance. They don’t value the promises that are found only by faith in Christ and turn exchange their birthright for other things.

We think that Essau was so silly to trade his precious birthright for some stew, but he was hungry. Many are hungry for power, wealth, influence, or just comfort and they value those things more than the riches that are found only in Christ.

I am not saying that you will go back and forth saved, then unsaved, then saved again. It is not how much we sin or how many times, but only that we continue trusting in Christ for forgiveness of our sin. If you continue in unrepentant sin, you will come to a point that you will turn away from God, and once you reach this point, you will never come back. We don’t know how long this process might take, but we must stay walkng close to the Lord so as not to find out, trusting in his mighty power to keep us afe from the enemy of our souls.

If you were walking along a path next to a cliff, the wise person would stay as far away as possible, the foolish person would try to walk as close to the edge without falling off. In other words this is why it is so important to humble ourselves constantly and at the first indication of sin, to repent and turn to Christ for strength to resist temptation. Willful sin, will lead to apostasy.

Burning Lamp says:

Alan, I say a big AMEN to your comments – good words – but I would differ on one point. That of eternal security of the believer. Yes,the warnings in the Bible are for believers to not be led astray. However, I do not believe the Bible supports the premise that TRUE believers will lose their salvation for being deceived.

We did not earn our salvation and we cannot maintain or keep it. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Believers who stray either into sin or false doctrine don’t get off scott-free. There are consequences. Children of God are chastened and there will be a loss of rewards and tears at the Bema Seat.

When Christ saved us He knew all of actions from birth to death and He still received us into the Beloved. The Church parallels with God and Israel. Israel was disobedient but God has not abandoned them. He will keep His covenant with Israel and He will keep the New Covenant with each and every TRUE believer whom He has SEALED unto redemption. We didn’t deserve redemption and we don’t deserve eternal life – it is only by God’s unmerited favor – the ultimate grace that we are saved. Only God knows the heart of everyone who is deceived or has fallen into sin – whether or not they are sealed. We only see the exterior.

I have seen so many who are not assured of their salvation that they live in fear of crossing that imaginary line that they don’t live for God.

Thank you brother for your exhortations and defense of the truth!

Biblebeliever says:

Burning Lamp, what did you find wrong with my website? Be specific, email me if you want.

Deborah I hope you do get a chance to see it. Thanks.

Biblebeliever says:

Praying your pc problems are fixed. I was kind of surprised at what was said about my blog. I was Pre-Trib for a long time and wrote this about it: {I do not consider it a salvation issue}.
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/06/leaving-pre-trib-position-behind.html

Burning Lamp says:

BB, you are correct that one’s eschatology is not a salvation issue. However, the view is important in one’s Christian walk. Our view of the endtimes affects every aspect of our lives. I have studied the various viewpoints for many years and always come back to the Pretrib.

The view of Marvin Rosenthal should be debunked rather than promoted. I suggest you read this well-done and balanced critique of the Pre-Wrath position. http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/prewrath.htm

One thing I have noticed about many who try to refute the Pre-trib position is that they are quite harsh and bash rather than discuss.

Grace and peace to you.

Burning Lamp says:

Debs, you are correct – it is a very important doctrinal position. And it seems to be the mantra of those who promote bad doctrine to say it isn’t a salvation issue. We aren’t talking about salvation – it is defending biblical doctrine. Of course biblical doctrine needs to be built upon the true and complete, uncompromised Gospel and genuine salvation, but in a discussion it is mixing apples and oranges.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Personally I believe that the debunking of Pre-trib is a ploy of the enemy to rob us of our Blessed Hope and the joy and hope it brings us.

Elmarie A says:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Now you have a minuscule amount of people waiting for Jesus to take us home (being caught up) while the rest of the world (Christians included) await another Christ.

Debs you are sooooo correct on that. It again makes me think on the Bible verse where Jesus says if Son of man comes, will He find any faith on earth.

bic says:

Well done Deborah,

Also notice that the shape of the Koinonia House pictogram resembles the unfinished piramid with the alseeing eye, symbol of the new world order. Another give away is the name ‘Koinonia House’ itself. According to the KH website, ‘Koinonia House’ is ‘affectionally’ reffered to as ‘K-House’. The letter ‘k’, ofcourse, is the eleventh letter of the alfabet. So ‘K-House’ can be read as: ‘eleventh house’. In astrology, ‘the eleventh house’ is also known as the natural house of ‘aquarius’. Hence, the term ‘K-House’ is a cloaked reference to the age of aquarius, the so-called ‘new age’. Also, the number eleven has strong occultic significance and stands for chaos en disorder. It is the number of antichrist, the son of perdition.

Now, continue researching and ask yourself: Why is ‘K-House’ so keen on promoting and defending the (false) pre-trib doctrine?

Valerie says:

Interesting how people want to say that the lie is the rapture.

THE LIE has to be the same one that Satan has been using since the Garden. That we will surely not die, but will be as God knowing good and evil if we eat of the forbidden fruit.

bic says:

The pre-trib is a false doctrine. But don’t take it from me. Research the subject yourself. There are plenty of brothers and sisters in Christ that have done a excellent job in publicly refuting this doctrine on solid Biblical grounds. Just listen to what they have to say and search the Scriptures yourself. You’ll find out, just like I did: the pre-trib rapture isn’t taught in Scripture at all. Instead, it is a wide spread man-made doctrine that will most likely serve some specific purpose in the sceme of things to come. The churches of the world are being set up for some event. Be prepared.

louise says:

@BIC Please understand that as a Christian I do loads of research. I have for my own sake studied PRE, MID, And POST. Its no use telling me that I am following a false Doctrine. Explain your reasons. I am open to all truths but I cannot say beacuse you believe in the Post Trib its a false doctrine. As a Post Tribber you will find youself in the air with us one day and we will explain it to you on the way up. Smiles.

R_C says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Ron
If you don’t mind, I’d really like a specific quote showing where he has done “Bible code divination”. I’m willing to bet you won’t find one because to the best of my knowledge, he has never done it. I HAVE “done my own research”…Can I gently smack you over the head with a rolled up newspaper? http://www.khouse.org/topical_bible_study/biblecodes/ That took me all of 3 seconds to google for. I can only imagine how difficult it is for you too open your bible.

LOL! Chuck Missler is not into devination. He is against devination and even says you cannot use this method for that purpose. He is clear that the glory goes to God when someone who finds these codes (after the event happens). It’s sounds to me that people on this post are really, really misguided when it come to “knowing” what Chuck Missler’s beleifs are.

Bic says:

“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, AS THAT THE DAY OF CHRIST IS AT HAND. Let no man deceive you by any means…” 2 Thess 2

It is no use trying to ‘discern the world’ when one is caught up in the lie of the pre-trib rapture. The Bible spells out very clearly that all saint must go THROUGH the tribulation. THEN there will be signs in the heaven: The sun will darken, the moon wil not give it’s light and the stars will fall from heaven. An AFTER those events, and only THEN will the so-called ‘rapture of the church’ occur.

There are some who think it is no big deal whether one believes in the pre-trib or post-trib. Well, I am telling you plainly: that is a very big mistake. You must get these facts straight while you still have an opportunity. The Bible makes it very clear that the next ‘big thing’ will NOT be the rapture of the church but the emmergence of antichrist and the tribulation! And he (antichrist) will deceive many into believing HE is Christ returned! All those christians that are now awaiting the ‘immanent return’ of Christ are very likely to fall for this deception of the ages.

But not so for the saints. They have been warned in advance “not te be deceived”. They are not in the dark about the timing of His coming. Yes, He will come as a “thief in the night”. But first, certain events must take place. The ‘falling away’ has already occurred and is still in progress. Most churches have left the Biblical Gospel and are turning their followers to fables. They ‘tickle the ears of people’ with sweet lies like they will be ‘raptured up’ before bad things will happen. This whole idea ,of course, is very appealing to the flesh that does not like the idea of suffering for Christ. Enduring as He himself had endured. Try telling chinese believers, who sufffer daily and actually loose their lives in the name of Christ about your so-called rapture. For them, your doctrine is a slap in the face. They KNOW first hand that persecution will PRECEED our reunion with Christ. They are not so gullable as to think there won’t be any tribulation and persecution. As Christ himself assured us there would be. “But BEFORE all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.” Luke 21:12 (please do study the preceeding passage!)

We are fast approaching times where this kind of persecution will come to all true christians worldwide. The false churches of the world will team up togehter and with all major religions of the world, as they already do now and evantually decelare themselves to be the true ‘church’. They will seek to cleanse the christian faith from these ‘fundamentalists’ and ‘orthodox christians’ in order to get along with the world. Ironically, it will be these ‘christians’ that will initiate and facillitate the persecution of the true believers. Already now, members of the Living body of Christ are fleeing from these carcasses.

You say you have ‘researched’ the pre tib rapture? But looking at your references, I see that you only repeat the classic flawed evidence most pre-tribbers tend to use. Have you actually bothered to listen to the arguments of those who hold to the post-trib view? When you closely examen all of the pre-trib claims, when you look them up in your Bible, study them IN CONTEXT!! and be open to the notion that you might have been lied to, God willing, you will discover that the pre-trib rapture doctrine is a very widespread and eleborate scam.

There is no such thing as a rapture of the church before the tribulation. The only thing that will, and already IS taking place, is that God will SECURE his saints through faith BEFORE the great tribulation. He will keep His eye on them, protect and keep them In and THROUGH the tribulation. They will be cleansed and refined through fire and persevere to the very end. It is there, at the sound of the last and seventh trump that He will come and collect His saints so that they will be together with the Lord forever.

I found out, over the years, that people that have bought the pre-trib rapture lie are unlikely to change their minds about this. The constant brainwash from ‘fellow pre-trib believers’ is so strong that they cannot even consider the possibility that they might be deceived. When your mind is stuck on some idea, it becomes extremely hard to study the scriptures and just read what is says. Even the simplest of implciations are missed when you only accept things that fit your worldview. Fortunately I was never hindered too much by these kinds of preceptions. Before I came to Christ, I was a complete blank on this whole rapture thing. And only after studying the Bible for myself I noticed that there are a whole lot of people with some very mixed up ideas about what Scripture actually teaches regarding this ‘rapture’. I started wondering about this, and as I investigated the matter more and more, I came to unravel the big deception that has been going on for quite some time now. It all has to do with another false doctrine: dispensationalism. But that is a whole story in itself.

The only reason why I mentioned the pre-trib rapture in relation to Chuck Missler is because it always strikes me how these kind of guys always seem to be very keen to teach this doctrine. It begs the question: Why is this? Missler is also associated with Tim Lahaye, another big-time false teacher that has mesmerized the minds of so many evangelical christians with this idea of the pre-trib rapture. But christians do not follow fables! We do not follow doctrines of men. We follow Jesus Christ! Right?

Anyway. You will have to do the study yourself and make up your own mind. Pray God that he will grant you His truth about this subject, no matter what it may be. God willing, He will show you. I can only tell you what I know to be factual and Truthful. You are right on Chuck Missler and others like him. They indeed are false teachers that are deceiving the church.But if he is, you must also ask yourself the question Why is this guy so keen om teaching the pre trib rapture? I am telling you: this is no coincidence.

Be very warned: Deception is NOT of the devil. It is God Himself who sends us this dellusion. As a means to sort out the tares from the wheat. If there truly is love for the Truth in you, if you have the real faith of Jesus Christ, you owe it to Him to not take things for granted, to not blindly follow doctrines of men, but to search, re-search and be in constant prayer about this. The issue of the pre-trib rapture is not a ‘small thing’ as some might suggest. It is a big error and as such: a lie. And just as Light has no fellowship with darkness, so has Truth no fellowship with error.

Here are some links to video’s of some brothers in Christ that have taken the trouble of refuting the pre-trib on solid Biblical grounds.
They might be a starting point in your further investigation into this matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofLLykErtp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH27rh3fmFY

Take care!

Dan Domingo says:

I read all of this, and in no place did I even see an ounce of credible anything against chuck…

anytime anybody challenged the claims made against him by deb, all I saw was a bunch of attitude and zero backing up of your claims…

Burning Lamp says:

Idolization will do that.

Burning Lamp says:

Mo, you should follow your own advice in the verse displayed on the home page at Concord Bridge.

The Yearly Bible study uses the pablum of the NLT a weak transation at best.

Your current news features items from World Net Daily which appeals to the undiscerning and even unsaved conservative = Christianity lite.

If this is any indication of your level of discernment, it is no wonder that you don’t look deeper into Missler’s dark side. You apparently choose to IGNORE the FACTS that Deborah has posted here and to your PERIL and to the frequenters of the Concord Bridge – assuming you are one of the principals in charge.

Also, your assertion that Deborah would not consider you a Christian – on what basis do you come to that conclusion? What is YOUR position on becoming a Christian? I see nothing on the Concord website that would take a stand on this. After making such a statement you need to come back and explain yourself.

Rollin Shultz says:

I must side with Jibriem and his wee presented comments. Chuck Missler in his courses and commentaries has admitted to working for companies and DARPA under the thinking at the time that they were honest and or patriotic endeavors. He shares hwat he learned from those experiences, in the same way an alchoholic gives a good testimony on the evils of drinking. I guess Deb can hear the testimony of an alchoholic, but not one of a servant of the evil Military Industrial Complex. Dr Chuck Missler has done a series exposing NWO operations, mechanics and people, which I got on Itunes, another evil company extension, but one of which many Christians make Godly use.

I examined the Swansat site and here is their planned giving list for any who are interested, I have never seen one as Christ motivated as that.
http://www.swansat.com/foundation.htm

The misinterpretation of the currency is just that a misinterpretation. Everyone who has studied the NWO, knows they are against any gold backed currency, and that their planned One World Currency, is SDRs Special Drawing Rights, which are controllable electronically. The Auric, if it were allowed by the NWO, would prevent Africa from experiencing another Zimbabwe. Compare what Swansat has planned for Africa to what Bill Gates is doing to Africa through the seemingly nice donations of two vaccines and mosquito netting. All vaccines are deadly and life shortening, while the mosquito nets are treated with pesticides, imagine what that will do to the poor Africans being helped by uncle Bill.

I have taken courses over the l;ast 2 years from Khouse and I have learned more about God’s Word than all my life previously. It says something about a teacher, that he starts most all videos with the statement: “Don’t believe what Chuck Missler says, but always apply Acts 17:11” In English: listen to my words, but then check in the Bible to make sure I am telling the truth. heeyyy.

Deb made a wisecrack, about not needing to listen to the words of teachers, but if that was God’s view 1 Corinthians would not have a gift of teaching or preaching. Paul did warn, that most people should not become teachers, because the punishment, even for accidentally leading others astray is severe. I am sure Chuck is aware of that. We who comment on posts, would do well also to bear that in mind for ourselves.

Jesus said “by their fruits you shall know them” and Dr Missler is bearing good fruit as far as I can see. Jesus said if we served Him, we would be persecuted by the world, and he sure is being persecuted here. I think everyone should be hesitant to throw Dr Missler under the bus and do some diligent research instead of assimilating the views of a few hitpieces like this one.
I always pray for all truth in all things, and it is my hope these words have been tempered by the Holy Spirit, if not I will answer for them.

Burning Lamp says:

Rollin, you are a Rapture date-setter. That alone disqualifies you as one who has a firm grasp on the Bible. From the tone of your site it is easy to see why Missler would appeal to you.

I don’t mean to be unkind, but I say this so that others will not take your comments seriously.

Robbie says:

Debs, I found out what Ignorance means… “dumb on purpose”

Michael says:

Hi there, interesting but at times fruitless discussion unfortunately because if anyone teaches as much stuff as Chuck Missler, then being human he is bound to make a lot of errors. I have personally listened to his Bible teaching and also his other material and there is a big difference between these 2 for a start. Anyone who addresses UFO’s or the Bible code and offers there opinions, will get tarnished somewhat. Expositional bible teaching is a lot safer. And having a gift of discernment doesn’t mean we are right about everything, or should become intolerant and impatient with those who are wrong. We all see in part. So, for me personally, i don’t know anything about African currencies or Chucks part in it (although I will investigate) but that doesn’t negate his solid Bible teaching (not that i agree with 100% as I don’t understand 100% to begin with). If we are going to persuade others though, I suggest we act in love and patience. For example regarding the tribulation, when i first became a Christian I had no idea what that what, let alone what pre-trib or post-trib or preterism was. Just because i do know doesn’t mean I’m all that more mature, just that I’ve got a bit more information. So, whilst doctrine is important and avoiding false teaching is, i know how much my views have changed over time as I learn more of God’s word. I pray that God will give you as much patience as discernment. That goes for me too. God bless you for your endeavours to serve him. But please don’t cut down others who may be attempting to do the same but not yet at the same point of discernment. Misguided sheep are not wolves in sheeps clothing. Those who promote false teachings are not the same as those who fall for them. I believed in word of faith for a short time until the Lord delivered me and gave me discernment. Finally, let our hope be in Christ, not Christianity. Let our love be toward God and not mammon. May we cry for the lost and ignorant not just tell them they are wrong. And may we not compromise on anything that is not from God…. Amen

Matt says:

Well said Mark. I have several of Chuck’s books, mp3’s, and dvd messages. I have disagreed with some of Chucks opinions (which he clearly states are his opinions), also, I have studied the scriptures along with Chucks messages, and have learned much, even eye-opening things regarding certain scriptures. I find that most people who label him as a false teacher never debate the man himself, or his students at Koininia House, which they are accessible. Most have their own agenda’s. To be fair, Deb has a right to her opinions right or wrong, just as we have a right to either agree or disagree with her. She can be accused of being a false teacher, or heretic as well, as anyone else.

lilie of the valley says:

I’m unexperienced with blogs etc. and actually only followed a link on chuck missler. I neither want, nor can add much to the “discussion”, ’cause I don’t know him persononally ( even I’m not much aquainted with all the other teacher mentioned so far,.) But I want to say this;
1. I do receive the k-house newsletter, which ends up with the request :” we solicit your prayer and support of this ministry ”
2.as living in germany Idon’t have access to much teaching of chuck missler, but whenever I’ve listen to his teachings on “the word of god” , I have heard him say, ever so often (!) ” search you yourself the scripture ! Don’t believe,. just because I, chuck missler have said it !!!”
3. Just recently on god TV, I think it was a teaching from the strategic trends 2011 conference, I heard him say, “that inspite of his oppinion he held until…, he must correct his view…”
4.and again, I’ve heard him say many times in different teachings, ” what does this word mean? I don’t know ! “; or “I,don’t know, I’ve a personal view, because of this and that… but I don’t know…”

I neither want to defend a person, I don’t know personally, nor judge her, I just say, what I’ve noticed…

5. Only a few people above mentioned it, but it is so vital !

Let’s pray for all those, who lead… !

And 6. we need each other,
’cause all of us see only “in part” ( f.i. as Paul says in 1. Cor 13,12
“Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely…” )
AND bringing the pieces together in brotherly love, would be helpful, and, so necessary correcting each other in love…

Can anybody of us say, that, he/she inherits the utterly and only true view/truth ?
I for myself can only answer as paul says it in his letter to the Philippians 3,12 ff. !

Yes, we have to examine, 1. Thess 5,21, “test everything, hold on to the good”… and as Jesus promised to us, with the holy spirits help, we will know the truth ! ( JN 16,13)

May some of his views be yet incomplete, therefore “unbalanced”, “extreme” to one or the other site, even wrong (?)
( to me it seems,that he has insights,I and many of us don’t have a clue of)
I got the impression, he really pursuits the lord, tries to understand as deep as possible, and to warn and challenge christians, as many of them are mislead to a luke-warm-ness…

May god himself,the god of peace, sanctify us, through and through, so that our whole spirit,soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our lord jesus christ… 1 Thess. 5,23..

Fan Matieo says:

[delete – if you can’t figure out if this site is Christian or not then don’t expect me to prove your comments as you insult my intelligence]

James Johnstone says:

Yeah African currency = remember ag uy named Gaddafi? HAHAHAHAHAHH

Ann says:

M W wrote:

Also concerned with the lack of discernment of who he had come on board his ministry back in late 2005. It does make me wonder….
I do know of others that have run into the same information as you have and even more info than you posted. It is disturbing to say the least. We have to discern …. pray always… the days are evil indeed. There are a lot of false teachers out there…
.

MW–just wondered if you will could elaborate on who you are mentioning came on board in 2005 and what your concerns were.I wonder if Deborah could privately give you my private email. As I may know you as I have been involved since 2006.
ANN

Daniel says:

Hi Deborah, I am writing this directly to you so you can keep it to yourself or post it as you wish. I can tell that you and every person I read about on your blog really loves the Lord and tries to only present the truth. I hope you do not think I was attacking you or anyone else on your sight.

In spite of my comments, I am always skeptical about currencies and who is involved with them though so I will continue to do a little more research on this, and I will let you know if I find any hard facts that point to guilt or vindication in this matter. What I was saying is true about the currencies though. The people who run the Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank run the world’s economy and are behind the New World Order. A currency based in a commodity like gold is completely counter to their objectives. I have done a lot of research and have a friend who worked for the head of finance at Bank of America, and the people who run the world economy want to stay away from a stable currency like gold. Remember, after they form a one world currency they want to move to a fully electronic currency and eventually place chips in us that carry our financial info. Behind every plan of Satan’s God has a much better and more sophisticated plan. Remember that God’s plan catches
Satan off guard all the time, but Satan never catches God off guard. The people behind the New World Order and the money changers thought that they were going to achieve a one world government with WWI, then again w/ WWII. I do believe we are very close the rapture and the tribulation, but God has some big plans for his church in the mean time.

I would love to hear your opinions or other info on these thoughts. Especially if you have information that will correct me if I am wrong.

God Bless,
Daniel

jason says:

Just a couple of comments –

1. How many people has Chuck led to Christ? While I believe many comments above are born from various forms of jealousy, Chuck’s heart & the fruit is the thing to be examined only. I find it annoying reading comments from arm chair quarterbacks whom love to pick the pepper from fly poop & make mountains from dirt clods. Stand up & do something other than look to tear down a man & try to invalidate his message – how dare you.

2. Chuck is a man, an imperfect man & he’ll be the first to tell you the same. What is the mantra that he lives by? Acts 17:11 which, he always says & I quote “don’t believe a word Chuck Missler says, check the scriptures to see if it is so”. I have heard him say that MANY times.

3. Please, anyone – tell me who is the perfect Bible teacher, I am dying to know. In fact, I am looking for the perfect church & will travel anywhere in the world to visit such a place. Well?

All of those whom posted negative comments in this thread are sad little, prideful & myopic hypocrites in my opinion. Listening to speakers like Chuck is a pretty straightforward process – grab the good, sound doctrinal things & discard the rest you believe is incorrect BUT prove it is incorrect through study of the Word.

Bottom line – shut up, get a life worth living & BE the witness. The job is to expand the kingdom of God not invalidate someone who has led 100 times more people to Christ than all of the comments in this thread combined.

Sheesh, how annoying …..

Martin Horan says:

Jason, because someone has discernment and points out false teachings does not mean they are envious. As far as I can see from people who have criticized Chuck Missler, the criticism has been objective. It has been objective because it is logical and, more importantly, biblical.
Chuck Missler is an imperfect man. Really? Well, I’m glad you see that. But because he regularly says “Don’t believe me, believe the Bible” proves nothing.
I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God cult and “God’s only true living apostle” used to hammer that same line continually. He made people think that they were going to the Bible and finding our for themselves that his claims were true but, in fact, they were not. They were going to the Bible to read selected parts that were then reinterpreted to fit Herbert W. Armstrong’s paradigm. Cult leaders play that trick a lot of the time. You think Missler’s never heard of that trick?
Deborah’s not saying that there is a perfect Bible teacher. But she is saying that there are sound ones. Apparently you haven’t noticed the difference. And the fact that you revert to personal insult to defend a man who you yourself say is not perfect, is hardly logical. For one thing, it is downright rude and hardly shows a Christian spirit.
It shows that you do not like criticism of what strikes me as your idol, Missler. There are only two kinds of criticism: objective and subjective. Objective criticism is fair because it it true; subjective criticism is unfair because it is false.
Deborah, and plenty of others, have already pointed out where Missler fails miserably when it comes to being Scriptural, so I have no intention of going over old ground here.
However, as “a spirit has not flesh and bones” [Luke 24:39] and fallen angels were in heaven, which flesh and blood cannot enter, and “that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit” [John 3:6] and angels do not have genitals–or why would Jesus Himself make the statements in Matt 22:30 & Mark 12:25? (Anyway, why would God give them genitals if they do not procreate?) And remember, those other quotes above are also straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ! That being the case, how can Nephillim be the progengy of men and fallen angels?
I do not deny that there were giants on the earth. It is true that there are plenty of skeletons of them that have been found. But that doesn’t mean they were the progeny of demons and women as is being bandied about. Nor does it mean they were the offspring of aliens of faroff planets either. We know from Scripture–and the Laws of Thermodynamics actually–that evolution not only did not happen but could not have happened. People who believe in aliens are evolutionists.
Anyway we know that both beliefs (women having produced offspring from demons or aliens) goes back to pagan thinking and was strongly pushed through occultists like Madame Blavatsky, Albert Pike, Many P. Hall and Aleister Crowley. These people, whose writing can be found on-line were open and blatant Luciferians. It wasn’t only something they did NOT try to hide, it was something they openly advocated. And, interestingly, they were all evolutionists.
If Chuck Missler is not even aware of those things which are common knowledge to Luciferians and high-ranking Masons (those well above the first three degrees), then is he really fit to be writing books about things of which he is ignorant?
Deborah, at least, writes of things of which she knows. And she does so objectively. Anyone who believes that humans and spirits–or aliens from outer space–can have sexual intercourse, and even conceive, strikes me as being very subjective and hardly deserving of any respect.
Respect, for one thing, has to be earned. It is not a given. That’s why I do not respect people like Chuck Missler. And I do not have to. So long as I love my enemies, I do not respect those–enemies or friends–who show they do not deserve respect.
And to you, Deborah, carry on with the good work. You are doing a good job. As with all real Christians, do not expect to be thanked. You know that because you know that the world loves it own. God bless you.

jason says:

Regarding my first post, I’ll keep it simple & scriptural: Matthew 7: 1-5

Discerning the Word,

Jason

Whether you post this or not, YOU will get the message.

Jason says:

Well Martin, that certainly was an interesting & quite an assumptive response. You did pretty much what Deborah did with my initial posting & is a typical of a mainstream media trick we’ve all grown weary of – pick out a small, insignificant portion of my reply & make a sophomoric, inane dig. No exploration, only assumptions & a chance to be highbrowed & haute as in Deborah’s case.

Then you come on your metaphorical white horse to defend the honor of some damsel seeming to be in distress, all the while using a sword sharpened by your personal experience of being duped by a Christian cult – isn’t ‘Christian cult’ an oxymoron? Sorry, couldn’t avoid the humor.

Incidentally, what attracted you to following her web or blog site? You certainly reveal similarities in your communication as to how you were led to the Worldwide Church of God. I don’t know how you’ve missed the plethora of articles here that point away from the Bible. It speaks volumes. Remember, those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Aside from the immediate above, you haven’t the foggiest idea what I was addressing. However in the interest of further clarity, let me spell it out.

1. I never said I was a “follower” of Chuck Missler. He always quotes Acts 17:11 which, leads you right back into the Bible for the authority & final word. What cults do is completely the opposite – lead you away from the Bible through consistent distraction & tearing at others. Chuck or any other human for that matter is not my god, only Jesus is. I find Chuck’s insights intellectually stimulating but do I believe in aliens or giants from the past? Does it really matter?

2. The common thread in entire post has a sour flavor in that it brought the negative & the self-righteous points of view and comments. I find it so pathetic & belittling to allow people to go in that direction. This is the fundamental problem with blogs – the only balance that can created is by the author themselves. Truth can become relative & that is a sad state of affairs.

3. Why do people like Deborah feel that it is important to walk upon the shoulders of others in order to get noticed? I can assume, based upon my #2 above, that she is strongly bent towards pointing out all of the wrongs with pretty much everything. What she is doing is creating an island & that stands diametrically opposed to a Christ led mission. While this may be unsettling for you to hear, examine the evidence yourself (you’ll find it listed on the right side of this page – all 1,000 of them). I’ll assert that a considerable number of her list above is not necessarily leading someone to Christ, it greatly instills fear & paranoia. The subsequent comments bears that out.

4. You say “People who believe in aliens are evolutionists” … really? What Chuck pointed out in a speculative way (which he, himself says many times, is just his opinion) was that due to the speed at which UFO’s travel, relative to our ability to travel, that they must come from outside our dimension, therefore demonic in nature. It seems plausible BUT, I do not give it any weight as to my spirituality, I simply find it interesting, kind of like a good mystery book – it is a fun exercise. Quite frankly, I think Chuck find it’s interesting as well & not the basis of his belief in Christ.

I could go on but why? You are a captive audience of this blog & anything (I) said will go through a fear based filter instead of getting my point – leading to Christ. Chuck has done what very few have done in the world today, led tens of thousands to Christ & he is not perfect but his fruit bears out in two ways – leading people to Christ & not spend an inordinate amount of time pointing at the fallacies of man. The object is to lead people to Christ & our model is laid out in the Bible.

PS

My short comments just above this one, was directed at Deborah’s response to me on 4 June, 2012 at 12:39 pm

Burning Lamp says:

Jason, you have crossed a boundary that has not been crossed on this blog by anyone to my knowledge who is honestly interested in truth when discussing false teachings/teachers because it is unbibical to do so.

The Bible instructs us to discern and judge the fruit. The works of public teachers are open to public examination. Often righteous judging benefits the teacher in question if they are not so puffed up they will humble themselves and examine themselves.

You have judged Deborah’s heart. Bad thing to do dude. This blog is about examining and exposing false teachings that are hurtful to the Bride of Christ. God cares very much about His sheep. It is a difficult calling, one that invites criticism. But it is done out of obedience to God, not to judge others unrighteously.

Your philosophy of chewing up the meat and spitting out the bones is faulty.
Some of the bones are quite small and could slip through and choke you. Ever swallow a fish bone? I hope not as it is a very bad experience.

Your words do not reflect the love of Christ and a concern for His truth and all the sheep who are confused due to false teaching. That is what motivates people like Deborah to press on despite opposition.

Yes, it is most important to share the Gospel and reach the lost, but the Great Commission also states the necessity of discipling new converts in the truth.

False teachers flourish because people fail to expose them or won’t heed the warnings about them.

edddycs says:

Deborah keep going

JASON you will eventually catch on -this because you are seeking the truth- This is a promise of God ‘seek and you shall find”

What you said was also my initial reaction to what Deborah does here – I did not and we all do not like the people we look up to to be less than what they have made themselves out to be – I have changed many a reading author because of what i have learnt through this website – If i do not agree with Debs or any other Statement left by any other –then i go research myself , inevitably i come a pone the evidence discussed here.

Jason you are right in your summation Of Chuck but when you put yourself out there ud better be squeaky clean.I was once also The problem i have with all the so called ” Teachers’none of them actually work, Like Paul set as an example.Follow the money.
Ed

Albert says:

[deleted – don’t comment again, you are blacklisted]

Jason says:

I decided to read that link regarding Chuck Missler, written by William Saunders, whose bio is most incomplete other than he is self-appointed, and it proved nothing – just conjecture & an attempt to debunk a ministry. Further, I noticed it is a common thread throughout this entire blog to blast everything under the sun – drink a Monster & you are consuming the mark of the beast no less …

You have a pattern of taking things out of context & then build a castle in the sand. You’ve done it with my comments & see that much of what you have, taken painstaking efforts to do, is to attempt to weave a tapestry about false teaching about everyone with whom you are judge & jury.

That my dear friend, is an area that I would avoid like the plague because if you, through these suspect, out of context assertions, “lead” someone to believe that they are wrong & then they decide to move away from Christ because of infighting, confusion & lack of love, that’s on you – a millstone I’d avoid at all cost.

Nearly all of this blog is dedicated to creating fear in people through sensationalism. How does any of this elevate Christ?

As stated to Chris above – “let me ask you, from your own personal experience – were you just wondering around in the world, minding your own business & suddenly one day – bam! you became a Christian? Everybody was led from the dark to the light” by a human. Because we are born of sin & have free will, it is virtually impossible to come to Christ without some sort of human interaction. However, I fully agree that the Holy Spirit leads us to truth BUT we must choose & accept Christ first.

Incidentally, I do not hold Chuck Missler in high esteem whatsoever, he happened to be the subject that started this off & someone I have had some experience with. Rather, my real thrust is that I am vehemently against those who run around tearing down others in an acrimonious method, which is NOT Biblical, and that my friend – is a FACT.

BTW, I looked but was unable to find any background information about you – what are your qualifications?

edddycs says:

Jason – when i made reference to ” squeakily clean’ it was not to you but rather Mr Missler — When guys put them self on Public peda stills Bible tells us what Character they must be.
I grew up in the Pentecostal way – my parents swooned over the Likes of Billy Graham et al. Today the glass is clearer,only because we research so much more – I find these Men feel they can justify anything and that the Larger “christian” community will accept the lead – NO we peasants must expose them for who they are -these are the famous wolves– I would like to see some real local ones also exposed here. There is a lady in my town who claims to be prophetic has dreams and sees visions – she has her local believers completely fooled – her Husband once a minister himself has run off with another women and the children don’t want anything to do with her. Who are her christian mentors.
Todd Bently
Warren
and all the other peanuts exposed here- By the way this is not the only site that does this – there are plenty
Ed

Martin Horan says:

I’ve just caught the end of that argument! Jason’s point about listening to the Holy Spirit worries me because I’ve been there, seen it, done it and got the t shirt. I found it was leadnig me from God. Thankfully, I woke up.
The problem with listening to the Holy Spirit is the same as praying to Him. We are told nowhere in the Bible to either pray to or listen to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit’s “job” is to guide us into all truth [John 16:13].
And what is truth? John 17:17 tells us: The Word of God is! And that’s where the Holy Spirit leads us–not to signs or wonders.T hose things are to “follow.” We are not to seek them. Jesus tells us that an even and adulterous generation looks for a sign. Why not just believe Him. He knows better than we do.
When people try to live by God’s Word they are often accused of being pharisiacal–though the Pharisees put their traditions above God’s Word–or they are called unloving and/or hateful and/or bigoted. It goes with the job.
It almost makes me fear to ask you, Deborah, if you know much about Jackie Pullinger, who wrote “Chasing the Dragon.”
I have who thinks she is a great Christian. I was actually a bit worried about what she writes, having read her book. I wondered what your take on her theology is. Do you know much about her? I couldn’t find anything on your insightful site.

Colin Ford says:

Deborah/Martin,
From memory I believe that Miguel Hayworth of ‘First Plumbline Apologetics’ has written an extensive expose about Jackie Pullinger.
I believe your question regards the ‘Dragon’ will/may be answered.
Yes the title IS weird! Keep away from such thrash!
‘Christian Book’?
Read titles by ‘J.C.Ryle,B.W.Newton,S.P.Tregelles, and other such scholars!
Please don’t bash me on the head for being a ‘Calvinist!’, I am a Christian!!!

Miguel Hayworth says:

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Thanks Colin
>> Miguel Hayworth of ‘First Plumbline Apologetics’ has written an extensive expose about Jackie Pullinger.
Here is the link:
I had a warning from my anti-virus that there is something funky going on his website… maybe he has a virus. I’m going to contact him and let him know.

Hi To mention this has been resolved you can check this by going to http://onlinelinkscan.com/

AVG anti virus says http://www.avgthreatlabs.com/sitereports/domain/www.firstplumbline.net/domain-search-widget/www.avg.com.au that the site is clear

Robbie says:

Yes Bettye/Debs
Amazing how fast one grows spiritually the moment we leave a dead church.

Hanelie says:

Marion wrote:

However, in discovering the truth, it becomes easy to believe that there are NO good churches out there or honorable, God-fearing pastors. But there are! They may be VERY HARD to find, but there still are – for now.

Oh, Marion, your words just resonated with me. I have many friends, and know of many more, who live in a relationship with God, but have become so anti-church, because of repeated bad “church” experiences, that they will not touch anything with the word “church” on it. I have developed a deep “carefulness” of all (and especially big) congregations. Aren’t they just wonderful places for Satan to infiltrate and turn into just more religions with their own sets of rules and man-made traditions?

We have left our congregation a while ago, but have made a deliberate decision not do any church hopping in search of a better one. We pray that God will lead us where we need to be.

Redeemed says:

Thank you Marion for those suggestions in finding a church and yes, there are still “good” ones out there but they are as scarce as hen’s teeth. And a good rule of thumb is not to listen to ANY TV or radio preacher on a so-called “Christian” station. Last Sunday morning a pastor was on a program and gave a good Gospel presentation but when I researched him and his church I found they are Lutheran and teach baptismal regeneration for infants!

In researching churches I have found that their “Statement of Belief” can either be window dressing or it can be a real clue. But it is imnportant to discern where they stand on sound doctrine.

This probably belongs on the most recent thread on the Rapture, but it also seems appropriate here. I went to the site that Marion suggested and noted their “Statement of Faith”. This statement with accompanying verses was one of the best I have seen.

XV. OF THE RETURN OF CHRIST AND RELATED EVENTS
We believe Jesus Christ will physically return to the earth in like manner as He was seen to go
into heaven: bodily, personally and visibly; that His Second Coming will be preceded by a
chronology of Last Days’ events – literal events, beginning with a pre-tribulational, premillennial
calling out of all the redeemed: the Rapture; that the Rapture will terminate the
dispensation of the New Testament Church, and will induce the time of Jacob’s Trouble: a seven
year Tribulation Period and reign of antichrist; that the Tribulation will culminate with
Armageddon: the final terrible event in world history when the Lord Jesus, with heaven’s host,
returns victoriously making the kingdoms of this world to become the kingdoms of our Lord and
of His Christ; that upon the Second Coming of Christ, the Lord shall reign in righteousness on
the earth for one thousand years, climaxing with the final condemnation of Satan and the last
judgment of Revelation Chapter Twenty; and that, eternally thereafter, the Lord Jesus Christ
shall reign for ever and ever.
Gen 18:25; Isa 11:4-10; Jer 23:5-6; Jer 30:6-10; Dan 7:23-27; Dan 9:24; Dan 12:1; Zech 14:9-
11; Mt 24:3-31,36-51; Mt 25:31-33; Mt 26:64; Jn 5:22; Jn 14:2-4; Acts 1:9-11; I Cor 15:22-
26,48-54; Phlp 3:20-21; I Ths 4:15-17; I Ths 5:1-9; II Tim 4:1; Tit 2:13; Heb 9:28; Heb 10:37; II
Pt 3:10-13; Jude 14-15; Rev 1:17; Rev 16:16; Rev 20:1-15; Rev 22:20.

Redeemed says:

Right on Marion! Some of the so-called “apologetic” ministries need to apologize for misleading the flock. Satan is one clever dude – he knows that his best traps are baited with truth – kind of like a mouse trap with tempting cheese but if one partakes one gets into trouble. He will wrap his error in a facade of truth and those who don’t discern or dig deeper will not detect it. The truth itself is not invalid, but is tainted and compromised.

Praise the Lord you found one of the good churches and are there to keep watch and guard against leaven entering through the sneaky wiles of the enemy.

As you reach out and share the Gospel you have a safe place to send new believers to be discipled. That is a major problem in many places when someone receives the Lord and there is no place to direct them for discipleship and fellowship and to follow the Lord in water baptism as a testimony and observe the Lord’s Supper and be encouraged in their faith.

Truly perilous times in which we find ourselves, but we will press on and do our best to accomplish our Father’s business in the time left to us.

dianne says:

Burning lamp said, “It seems that your remarks are insulting and condemning to a sister in Christ. You have no right to judge her heart or motives.”

It’s ironic that the same consideration is not given to Mr. Missler.

I urge anyone and everyone to get Mr. Missler’s position from his materials and NOT from someone who is going to “inform” you of his positions.

Redeemed says:

Oh my Dianne, you totally miss the point. You need to bring yourself up to speed as to Mr. Missler’s activities, his connections to false teachers, etc. He cleverly mixes truth with error. No one has judged his heart or his motives, just his actions and his fruit which the Bible clearly instructs us to do.

Mike says:

I found this site while researching Dr. Missler and read the entire post. For the most part I found myself being sad. I do know this – we who teach anything especially about the Bible will be held to a higher standard and will answer for what we have taught to Christ himself when we stand before him and answer for what we have done. Please be careful of pointing the finger in any way at another. It is definately OK to say I’m not sure I agree with this individual on this subject because as I see it this is the meaning… What would Jesus say and how would He say it. I believe it would be a better way of encouraging constructive dialog in order to further His Kindom. I believe that to be called a Christian one needs to strive to be Christ like. I pray that the Holy Spirit guides us all in our walk down that narrow path and through the door into the Kindom of Christ.

Doris says:

[delete]

Redeemed says:

Also, Mr. Baldwin, Mr. Missler’s intelligence is not in question. He is obviously an extremely intelligent man, but that does not qualify him to be a Bible scholar. The Holy Spirit provides more wisdom and knowledge than man can possibly know and oftentimes man’s intellect can be a stumbling block to the deep truths of the Word of God.

Kelleigh Nelson says:

Yes, I too saw the monthly newsletter a good while back where Dave Hunt said he believed Rick Warren was a brother in Christ. It was very disconcerting that a man with great discernment felt that the heretical and apostate doctrine Warren is selling is okay…he’s still a brother in Christ. Sadly, Warren has perverted the true gospel and is selling books to line his pockets. Dave made a big mistake on this one.

Sharon says:

Debora, I too would like to know what newsletter. I have gotten the newsletter from the Berean Call for about three or four years now. I have all of my copies. I don’t recall seeing that article but I could have passed over it.

Aaron says:

The Berean Call here declared that Rick Warren is a Christian that very much cares about the salvation of souls:

sheila says:

This blog picks apart every good teacher of the word. You all are very picky and mean spirited people. Who calls you judge and jury? Quit trying to do the work of the Holy Spirit.

Be glad that you are not some famous Bible teacher. If you were, your errors would discussed ad nauseam and you would be hung in the town square by most of these commenters.

Chrystie says:

I wonder if he hasn’t gotten foolishly caught up trying to profit from the Enemy. If we know from bible prophecy that certain worldly enterprises will be profitable until the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord it could be tempting for one to profit from these things. I try to use that sort of info to know where NOT to put my money or obtain income or profit. The Lord tells us in His word not to seek after gold and silver, but to invest in spiritual things. He seems to put his investments in globalist sort of things. The Swansat thing (which they have extended the launch date now to 2016), the Auric (a gold currency in the direction of a unified Africa and suspiciously like a portion of one world government )(Profiting from some of the poorest nations in the world? really?), CEO(? scraping the memory barrel here) with Ford Motor Co. (The Lord will destroy those who destroy the earth), etc. Often it seems like he starts out in the right place and then loses out to his own agenda….

Tammie says:

Why don’t you all read the Bible for yourself and discern the truth of what Chuck says. When Chuck discusses issues not directly stated in scripture he always shares that it is conjecture and encourages one to look to scriptures themselves. Have any of you even read the Bible? If you have, then rely on the Lord to reveal himself and his truth through his word.

Mark Cox says:

So, pray tell who do YOU endorse? I see so-called Christians bashing everyone from Billy Graham to Charles Stanley and even Spurgeon, Darby, Larkin, and other deceased commentators. What amazes me about guys like you is that you have the time to “expose” all these false teachers as though YOU ALONE have divine insight and a superior intellect that we should immediately stop what we are doing and listen to you. What are your credentials? Do you realistically believe that anyone in Christendom follows your blueprint exactly for theology, eschatology, and every other -ology? No, of course not. To assign Chuck Missler to a status of false teacher is disgraceful, and a view to which makes me ask of you: What is your affiliation? Whose writings have contributed to your spiritual superiority? What level of education have you obtained? And finally what makes you believe that God almighty in the heavens will allow his bride, the church–fully indwelt with his very essence the Holy Spirit, in which discernment (one of the gifts of that self-same spirit) is given to you alone, and NOT to other believers like the ones who listen to sermons from leaders other than yourself? There’s a boogey-man behing every teacher with you guys. Do I think there is false teaching? Yes the Mormons are false teachers, as are the Seventh Day adventists, and even the orthodox Jew, and the Muslin cleric. The Writ that governs their bylaws is flawed and so their fundamentals are flawed. The thing about doctrine however is that the fundamentals are clearly described and discerned; for someone to be deemed a false teacher demands that they willingly and purposefully deceive. I think virtually all gospel preachers since the beginning of time have got the fundamentals right, but at least some of the finer points WRONG…but because they have the bedrock of the fundamentals right and are indwelt with the Spirit they are merely believers that I disagree with, but in no wise rise to the scandalous definition of false teacher. I would call you a divider because you seek to empower yourselves by planting doubt regarding other called men. I have read and listened to Chuck Missler and many many other preachers. His ministry is sure, solid; His foundation and doctrine fundamentally sound. If you disagree with him, take it up with him…he is your brother. To cowardly siphon off the conspiracy-theory Christians is well, not very Christian.

Steve Farmer says:

Thank you, jlbriem
(jlbriem: 20 April, 2010 at 3:08 am)

You will probably never see these words. Yet I say them, still…
I read nearly every word of your post there, from nearly 6 years ago.
Amen, glory to the Lord, and I THANK the Lord for Chuck Missler,
and my own awareness of the Lord leading me TO his teaching and ministry.
NO ONE else on earth but my own self is aware of my own particular
“life circumstances” that led to my becoming aware of Chuck, and my own
SINCERE calling and crying out to God for answers to some DIRE questions
I was having in my own life at that time. God is good. He leads, in His timing.
Part of that timing included Chuck Missler. My heart is in love with my
Creator-Redeemer Jesus Christ. HE IS the only central reason and focus of life.. period!
My heart also loves Chuck, my brother, and I shall always be thankful to God FOR
Chuck. I feel a bit sorry for people who have made it their “job” to “fault find”.
Again, Glory to You, Lord Jesus! You are Good.. always!

The Lord even led me to the “random” opportunity, out of the clear blue, to meet Chuck.
See that meeting here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler

Mark Guetersloh says:

I am ashamed of much that I have read here and not a little amused. How convenient for many of you to pick and choose those teachings offered by Dr. Missler that fit your own worldview or feed your own ego and then condemn the man as a heretic. I have followed Chuck Missler for over 15 years now, testing each and every thing I have read or listened to – a practice shared by all contemplative, Spirit-led truth-seekers. I don’t agree with everything he teaches, nor even some of the company he keeps on occasion, but that does not diminish the light he has brought to the darkness that threatens to blot out authentic Christianity in these last days…a damnable darkness you are contributing to! God is not yours to create in your own image. Dr. Missler’s motives are unashamedly displayed for even the clumsiest observer – he wants Truth, not the pleasant or convenient fictions that yield a comfortable religion, but the reality of all-powerful God we have long ago forgotten to fear. Is Chuck wrong sometimes? You bet. That’s something most of us could learn to admit. Is he right most of the time? You bet – and I have confirmed that by thousands of hours of research – both for and against his claims. Regardless of your differences with Dr. Missler on non-essential issues and doctrines, you had better be in agreement with his presentation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is a faithful reflection of the Good News given once for all unto the saints. My heart is sick as I watch the Truths of Christianity torn to shreds, little by little, piece by piece, by filthy little piranha’s of subjectivism.

I’ll end by reminding most of you that the Apostles were also subject to the pride that assails most of you, petitioning Jesus to stop that terrible fellow who was sharing the Gospel though he was not one of them. Jesus explained to them that whoever was not against Him, was with Him. Chuck Missler is certainly “with” Jesus You throw stones at your great peril.

Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

Mark Guetersloh

Hours and hours of research you say? You must have missed this. https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2016/05/04/koinonia-house-adoration-mary/

You must be a Roman Catholic Mary worshiper along with Chuck Missler and everyone at Koinonia House.

Kind regards
Your “filthy little piranha’s of subjectivism”

JAMEY says:

And I’m willing to say that 99% of YOU people are still asleep thinking this world is yours to take when it is not, the bible clearly states to come out of this world. Now ask your self who are YOU if all your earthly things go suddenly; DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE ?????????????????? REALLY??????????????????

Arthur says:

Psalms 95: verses 4 – 5: 4. For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5. For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

The above verses clearly indicate that there are many gods in this world. Each nation has its own god or gods. One has to note that nations refers to the gentiles\heathens. Therefore here, the Bible informs us that the gods of all the nations are idols. Arabs worship Allah, an idol. Europeans worship Jesus Christ, an idol. Indians worship Krishna, an idol. Asians worship Bhudda, an idol etc etc. Note that I have only mentioned the main gods of these nations. These nations have many more gods in their closests. There is only one nation on this earth whom their God is not an idol but God the Creator and that nation is the Hebrew nation. The children of Israel. The chosen people of God.

I am going to put more emphasis on the so called Christianity since most of the subscribers here are the so called Christians. The main architect of modern Christianity is Constantine, a pagan,, a Roman Emperor. Before Constantine, the Hebrews/Israelites were constantly being persecuted by the Romans and their Roman Catholic Christian Church.

Remember it is the same Romans that killed the Son of God. It is the same Romans that also killed the disciples of the Son of God. But despite all this persecution the Hebrew belief system continued to grow like a wildfire. This is where Constantine comes into the picture. He noticed that despite the concerted effort to destroy the Hebrews, the followers of the Son of God, the Hebrew belief system was continuing to grow exponentially. He had to find a way to quench the grow and he noticed that since they failed to destroy the belief system directly, they had to infiltrate the system and take its control from within. This is where paganism was introduced into the belief system of the Hebrews and Christianity was born. Christianity therefore is the art of masking paganism with the Bible. Outside, they pretend to believe in the Bible whilst in they are still pagan to the core inside.

To give an example: According to Europeans, who are the descendants of the Romans in one form or the other, Jesus Christ is God. We know however that the Bible constantly tells us that He is the Son of God. He constantly referred to His Father during his ministry on this earth. Now, how can he be the Father and the Son at the same time? This is what Christianity teaches and this is clearly a false doctrine because it is clearly at loggerheads with what the Bible teaches. That he is the Son of God.

Secondly, the Son of God was not a Roman. He was a Hebrew, the Son of David, a descendant of the tribe of Judah. His name in Hebrew is Yasha which means Saviour. We call Him Yashaya in Hebrew which means My Saviour. Therefore, like I said, Yashaya was not a European but a Yehudite (Judean) a Hebrew. The so called Christians/Europeans depict their God Jesus Christ as a European/Roman man which is deceptive at the core.

Remember Yashaya’s parents Joseph and Mary had to run into Egypt with Yashaya in order to save him from the wrath of Herod the Roman, who killed all the Hebrew boys 2 years and younger in an attempt to kill Yashaya as an infant.

Also remember that the land of Egypt/Mizraim is named after the Son of Ham who was called Mizraim. Also, the Zondervan Bible Dictionary tells us that Ham was an African Black man. Therefore Mizraim his son, was also a black man too. We should notice therefore that the original Egyptians more particularly during Yashaya’s ministry on this earth were black people. You can also see that in their tombs and pyramids where they depicted themselves as black people.

Now the question is, if Yashaya was a white man as depicted by Christians/Europeans, why was He hidden in the land of black people? Would he have not stuck out like a sore thumb and defeat the very same purpose why He had to be hidden in the first place? How do you hide white people in the masses of black people? That would not make any sense at all. The only conclusion you can reach therefore, out of this narrative is that Yashaya was a black man, from the tribe of Judah.

One does not need to make his own logical conclusions though, since the Bible itself describes how the Father Ahaya and the Son Yashaya looks like physically. Do your own research to convince yourself that the Father our Creator and His Son are black people.

This goes to show that Yashaya and Jesus Christ are 2 different people. Firstly, Jesus Christ is a white man, a white God, an idol like I said previously. Whilst Yashaya is the Son of God our Creator a black man from the tribe of Judah. Christians worship a white God whilst the Hebrews worship the God of the Bible, a black God.!Therefore Christians are idolatrous which is a great sin in the Law.

Also, Christians worship on a Sunday whilst the law instructs us to worship on the Sabbath, the 7th day. Here again going head on against the Creator’s law. Willfully committing sin. And as we know, the wages of sin is death.

In the nutshell, you have to know the right God to worship since there are many gods on this earth. The only God that has to be worshipped is Ahaya, the God of the Hebrews, a black God. And the only name through which we can be saved under the sun is Yashaya, the Son of our God Ahaya. The black Son of our black God Ahaya. Jesus is not going to save Christians. To be saved from the coming hell fire, Christians should ditch their paganism and worship the black God Ahaya through his Son Yashaya. This is the only way to our new Kingdom. The Kingdom of Heaven on this earth.

Chrissie Kruger says:

Good day. I am looking to have more information about Jacob Prash and his Moriel Ministry please. Do you have any on your website?

Adam says:

I note with some concern your attempt to smear Chuck Missler for being involved with bringing an Africa wide currency into being.

On reading the information you post yourself in the article concerning this currency it seems it will be a gold backed currency. I can only assume you are completely ignorant of all matters concerning money, debt and usury. If you were not ignorant of these facts you would perhaps realise that a gold backed currency is inestimably preferable to a fiat based debt money system. When I say inestimably preferable what I mean is the one system is based on honest money and the other is based on enslaving those who use it.

Many books have been written on this subject which you appear to be completely ignorant about. On this basis I can only assume your other accusations. almost all of which seem to be based on guilt by association, are based on an equal measure of ignorance.

Your entire article reeks of ego and self-righteousness.