Latter Rain: Sons, Daughters Will Prophesy, But Not Yet…
Latter Rain: Your Sons and Your Daughters Will Prophesy, But Not Yet…
Acts 2:17: 17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, said God, I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams”
Thank you to Let us Reason Ministries for giving me permission to post their article:
Are we seeing the Latter Rain that the book of Joel predicted?
There are three facets to keep in mind to have a correct interpretation of (Acts 2:17) which refers to (Joel 2,3).
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Time
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Place
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Recipients
All three need to be accurate to determine if in fact it this outpouring has taken place.
- Time– this occurs in the tribulation period near the end, so it is impossible for this to be happening now.
- Place– It begins in Israel specifically Mt. Zion (Jerusalem).
- Recipients– It is to the Jewish people primarily for them to be saved. If this is not taking place with all three elements then it has not happened as the Scripture records and it is not fulfilled prophecy.
Latter Rain Movement
Latter Rain adherents have a movement that believes in a last day’s revival unlike any other in history. This revival is for the church. They incorrectly apply eschatological passages specifically for Israel to the church. The common mistake is taking the scripture in (Acts 2:17) which says: ‘God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh,’ to substantiate what is happening in the new revivals today. This is not the meaning of this verse and cannot be applied today for the above mentioned reasons.
If we go back to the book of (Joel 2:28-32), we find that the timing of these events are just before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord, which is the day he comes back (Armageddon). The location where this takes place is the land of Israel. The people being referred to are the Jews. Peter himself is in Jerusalem and speaking to the Jews at Pentecost. (Joel 3 states: ‘for behold in those days and in that time...’ It then goes on to speak of Armageddon and judgement). This is also mentioned earlier in (Joel 2:10-11). So we see that this is speaking specifically to the Jewish nation concerning a future event. What Peter is referring to in (Acts 2) does not include all of what is to happen in (Joel 2). It is partial fulfilment at Peters time and a complete fulfilment will be at a later date. There is a main similarity that Peter explains, to say this is what Joel spoke of- it has to do with the pouring out of the Spirit (a manifestation of the Spirit among the Jewish brethren).
We should also notice that Peter quotes Joel, mentioning that the sun is darkened and the moon is turned to blood-red: ‘Blood and pillars of smoke before the coming of the great and terrible Day of the Lord’. This is referring to a specific time – a future event. Those at Pentecost were experiencing a glimpse, a taste of what would happen by the Spirit at the end of the tribulation period, which would bring revival to Israel as a nation.
Book of Joel and the Latter Rain
All of the book of Joel is uniquely linked to the national salvation of the Jews preceding Christ’s return it is referring to the Tribulation period. In (Joel 2:23), we find the phrase ‘the latter rain’ that has been used and is still being ascribed to revival: ‘Be glad then you children of Zion and rejoice in the Lord your God, for He has given you the former rain faithfully and He will cause the rain to come down for you. The former rain and the latter rain is in September, the first month of the fall feast days (Joel 2:24). “The threshing floor shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with new wine and oil.’ The fall feast days begin in September in the Jewish calendar, it is a harvest time.
In (Joel 2:27), the phrase ‘former rain’ is used in the spring, and the ‘latter Rain’ denotes the autumn. Joel is saying that at this time, both of these rains will occur together. God will pour out His provisions on their crops, thereby giving Israel abundance and restoring the material blessings to their nation which will prove that God is with them again, and that their shame has been removed. The meaning conveyed here is physical rain needed to restore wheat, wine, and oil. What’s even more important is that the latter rain is in the first month. In Israel you have two rainy seasons called the former and later rain. At the end of the spring rain you had a harvest that was for grain, at the end of the Autumn season you had a harvest which was for fruit. But you also have a long hot summer in Israel. Israel basically has two seasons Israel is agriculturally reliant on its water supply because it doesn’t rain in summer. To understand this now spiritually. The former rain, the latter rain are two rains and they correspond to the 7 feast days given in (Lev 23). In the first portion, the former rain, 4 feasts of Israel were fulfilled in the spring season by Jesus’ first coming, the last feast was Pentecost. The last three feasts come after the summer season of planting. They will be completed by his 2nd coming, as He literally comes to earth to bring his kingdom and rule to the nations.
Latter Rain for Gentiles?
The clock is now stopped and we are in the time of the Gentiles and it corresponds to the summer period on the Jewish calendar, the in between time of planting for the last harvest. It is a time of working and plowing the ground getting the land ready for the next harvest. The rain comes and stops, the rain comes in the beginning and in the end the 2nd rain is greater because it is both the former season and latter season together. Many Jews were saved in the beginning of the Church and many more will be saved in the end as (Romans 11) says. This is the spiritual application of former and latter of the two rains. It is the latter rain that is so abundant that it is like two seasons put together. This Spirit is poured out on Israel. On Pentecost three thousand were saved at this first harvest, after this he says (Joel 2:28), He pours out His Spirit on all flesh. What flesh? Specifically Israel’s for their salvation. The Spirit is poured out and all of Israel will be saved. In (Acts 2): The words ‘your sons, your daughters, your old men, and your young men’ are all referring to the fact that God is speaking to Israel then and also in the future. When Peter quoted this, it was to the Jews who were there in Jerusalem for the Feast of Pentecost. The future fulfilment also refers to the Jews in Israel. This is not applied to the unsaved Gentiles but to all the flesh of Israel (Rom. 11:25).
(Zech 12:10): “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son.”
The timing of this event is in the tribulation (Joel 2:31) before the great and awesome day of the Lord. In (Rev 6:12) it relates this event with the sixth seal of the tribulation. (Joel 2:31) it is the remnant that calls upon his name.
(Joel 3:1) says “in those days” and “at that time.” This describes the time period which ends with Armageddon, as all the nations are gathered into the valley of Meggido for judgement. In (Joel 3:12-15) he enters into judgement which is found in (Rev 14:18). In (Joel 3:13) he puts in the sickle for the harvest (also found in Rev 19:15). In (Joel 3:15) the sun and moon grow dark and the stars become dim (also found in Matt 24:29, Rev 6:12 ). It is in these days that the complete fulfilment will occur.
The only way one can apply this to any revival today in the church is to spiritualize or allegorize this passage, removing it from its intended context. Which is exactly what we find these teachers for the new revival doing, as they apply it to themselves. Joel’s book is about the tribulation period and Israel, so there is no justification for putting his prophecy as being fulfilled before the tribulation or toward the Church today.
Would like to know more about the Kwasiza-Bantu-, Worcester-(Murray’s)and Welsh-‘Outpourings’/ ‘Revivals’.
Thank you and appreciate!
Riana
Will let you know tomorrow. From what I know about Kwasiza Bantu some really powerful stuff went on there, people raised from the dead (so the story was told).
If anyone else has any info as well, please assist. dankie dankie thank you.
Thank you Deborah, for your reply & looking forward to more info on those matters!
I have another concern & need discernment on it. Years ago while busy reading a book on prayer by Andrew Murray, something happened to me: I went into ‘heavenly realms’, experiencing a joy, fulness, contentment & a peace surpassing understanding – it lasted for six weeks.. I thought it was from the Holy Spirit, but gaining more knowledge about Andrew M’s life being a mystic & a Free Mason, I ‘m wondering now what was the force behind my experience?! And behind the ‘revival’ in 1860 at Worcester, Cape. Facts on his life report that Andrew M. was influenced greatly by many books written by mystics, like Madame Jeanne Gyon & Brother Lawrence, with R Cathlic background (the other christ)& practising contemplative prayer (kundalini), living a live of ‘mindlesness’, etc.
-As we know, all the Murrays were FM, even Murray Senior from Graaf Reinet. Andrew’s brother John Murray, was one of the founders of the Dutch Reformed Theologian Seminary on Stellenbosch. The symbols in and on these buildings, churches, logos, etc. symbolises the ‘Queen of Heaven’ & Free Mason-occultism.
Question is now: with what kind of ROOTS & FOUNDATIONS are we sitting with in our lives in SA???!!! Is THAT one of the reasons why we are SO OPEN to all of these contemplative-, emergent-, Eastern-mysticism-, non-Scripture-, occultism-, etc. religious movements/influences..?!
Another thing that is troubling me is: MANY churches & ministries are praying that THESE SAME ‘revivals’, like the 1860-Cape, TB Joshua, Toronto, Assuza-street, William Branham, Kathryn Kulmann, etc. etc. will come to their congregations, NOT KNOWING that it were false & misleading workings from the ‘unholy spirit/kundalini spirit’!!
We NEED a lot of discernment & knowledge on these matters. If you have the time to study all of these OUTPOURINGS, false or TRUE, PLEASE write about it on your WEB?
Kind Regards!
‘Your comment is awaiting moderation’? – does it mean that I have to shorten it & how many lines? R.
Riana
Oh my goodness gracious me.
Well what happened to you was in no way from God and it clearly shows just how powerful the false ‘holy spirit’ is. Um, if you want to know more about the type of experience you had you can read up on the 7 Colours of the Rainbow and the 7 Chakras article I wrote. There you will see what actually happened to you or get a good idea of what happened to you. And is happening to Christians all over the world, millions daily.
Once the third eye or 6th Chakra is opened on your forehead you will see clearly through ‘gods’ eyes (this is the eye of Horus) or the eye in the triangle in the pyramid. The focus of ALL occultism. As the Emergents like Ron Martoia so nicely put it when he spoke with Stephan Joubert in JHB a few months ago: take off your lenses and put on new ones, see through new eyes.
Once this spiritual awakening happens to you the new picture of the world around you will look like a Coca Cola advert, but in fact you may as well have a black plastic packet over your head because you are now blind to the REALITY of what is really going on and everything now just becomes…. relevant.
You know, you have opened up a whole new can of worms for me here lol. I started my research on false revivals starting from overseas and slowly but slowly over the last 1.5 years I felt God direct me to start looking at South Africa – and with all my research on what was happening overseas I felt I was rather equipped to do that. But this deception is spread so far and so wide and so deep that I feel like I just don’t have enough time in my life to cover it all.
From Angus Buchan I have been researching my way backward i.e., back to the USA and he lands directly in the hands of the New Apostolic Reformation (Latter Rainer’s) and during my journeys into research land have comes across some seriously hectic stuff that makes Kobus van Rensburg look quite tame and rather ‘powerless’ in his healing ‘gifts’.
I have found names of people who went to the William Branham revival that was held in Durban and of course as usual witnessed miracles galore take place.
Then I read and heard from someone about Kwasiza Bantu and that apparently during one of the services a massive strong wind came out of no where and blew through the building or tent they were in (obviously took this as being the Holy Spirit). Healings where seen, apparently many Africans came to the Lord, witchdoctors were even saved apparently. And then the person who was raised from the dead – Not sure if anyone actually saw it, but the women (I think it was) had died and then came alive.
Then there is a guy who claims his birth was prophesied by William Branham to be a great prophet in SA. And this guy well… I have yet to write anything about him because he is just scary and he gives such little info about himself – also connected to the NAR in the USA – in fact I can link him and some guy he is prepping to be a great prophet in SA right into the hands of Patricia King from Extreme Prophetic (associated to Todd ‘Bam Bam’ Bentley)
We also have John G. Lake and John Alexander Dowie (a faith healer) who helped founded the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa in SA back in the late 1800’s with some other guys (from South Africa) I forget their names now…anyhow their congregation was predominantly Zionist (not Zionism)
John G Lake started up “Healing Rooms” and became a full blown ‘divine healing’ preacher
John Alexander Dowie founded the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church
Less than 50% of the members where black and disagreed with some of the teachings because it clashed with African ancestral and cultural traditions.
So you found many splinter groups formed; African Independent Churches
And can you just imagine which church splinter came out of this lot – especially from the Christian Catholic Apostolic side? None other than the Zion Christian Church ZCC with ol’ Barnabas Lekganyane.
John G Lake had a MASSIVE ministry in SA and helped to spread this Latter Rain rubbish. In fact thanks to him we can ‘probably’ say that this is how Latter Rain teaching crept into the Black community in South Africa and possibly spread from there. Of course it can only get worse when you combine Latter Rain teaching with African witchcraft.
Now you have that Curry Blake guy coming over from the USA part of John G Lakes heresies sorry I mean legacy and preaching at Kobus van Rensburg’s palace I mean church.
Because I have spent a lot of time researching Lake I didn’t even get to look at Andrew Murry and now you tell me about the revival in 1860 at Worcester, Cape. I didn’t even know about that one. lol
I think I am going to cry. haha. That was long before John G Lake came here. William Branham was here in the 1950’s. So I need to look back even further than that.
Can someone please lend me a 2nd brain and a few extra pairs of hands and give me another 12 hours in a day.
Anyhow, looking at what I’ve read above, you will notice that Catholicism is the CORE of all these false doctrines.
Riana if you would like, and you have information that you would like to give me (in an already nice typed out format) I will gladly publish it here! If you have tons of stuff in a nicely typed out format I will gladly publish all of it. I have piles and piles of documents and paper and about a billion saved urls with info and nothing is nicely typed out.
Everything you have said above is a huge concern and what you say is absolutely 100% true. This country went down the drain 100 years ago already and no one noticed. The DRC were primed from the beginning to accept RCC teaching. When some in the DRC are now sitting up and taking notice and wondering what on earth their pastor is now preaching, they are bewildered and the leave and where do they go? They go to Oom Angus.
It’s a disaster…
Riana
No it means I had not read it yet and approved it 🙂 But you can now read my long reply.
Riana
Oh I also forgot to mention that before the 1800’s you had the French Prophets in the 1700’s who spread revival in France and did the tongues, shaking, prophesying, the works, even children would roll their eyes back in their heads and speak languages never heard of before for lie hours on end. Definitely not Godly.
Thanks Deborah, for all these pieces of the bigger puzzle!! I will love to help with researchwork – it will only take time to get all the information and as English is my second language, you have to help! (:
To most of us as believers because we LOVE our SAVIOR, Y’SHUA H, the TRUE JESUS CHRIST of the TRUE SCRIPTURES, the BIBLE, and because we LOVE our fellowmen, we have an URGENTCY to see that ALL of us WILL COME TO THE TRUTH THAT SETS US FREE!!!
WE PRAISE and HONOR HIM! R.
Riana
Thank you! And of course I will help, don’t worry about that. Do take your time though in getting it all correct and in order. There is another lady who is on a holiday right now that might know about the Worcester revival. Will see.
Riana, ek is ook Afrikaans, maar redelik met engelse vertaalwerk. jy kan by DTW my e-mail kry of sy kan dit pos en ek sal help vertaal. taalprobleme is die minste van die eiertjies in die miernes. onthou net om jou navorsing in al hierdie dinge, DEEGLIK te balanseer met skriflesing en gebed. en probeer om ALTYD alles wat jy lees, na te vors in die Woord van God ook. anders kan jy prooi val van heel tyd kennis versamel en nie tyd vir Bybel lees en gebed nie.
cecilia
Cecilia, BAIE DANKIE vir hierdie UITERS belangrike raad wat jy vir my deurgee!! VADER het dieselfde ding vir my kom bevestig gisteraand. Ek het skielik SO opgewonde begin raak toe ek begin terugdink aan my verlede en vir die eerste keer regtig besef deur HOEVEEL ondervindinge ek al gegaan het, plekke waar ek was en HOE die Heilige Gees my oe vir onSkriftuurlike en misleidende dinge oopgemaak het!
n Mens kan NET ONDERSKEI as jy in die Woord en deur gebed NABY Jesus Christus bly soos jy tereg gese het en as jou hart skoon is. Hoe FYN is die lyn nie in alles nie en as dit nie vir SY GENADE is en mekaar se HULP om perspektief te bly behou nie, kan ons net so maklik wanbegrippe ontwikkel en self in die misleiding ingetrek word.
Daarom sal ek graag jou eposadres wil he, nie net vir my taalprobleem nie maar as n klankbord om REG te sien, te hoor en te bemerk tov die Skrif. Persoonlik is daar ook SOVEEL vrae op my eie gemoed wat ek vir julle wil vra, en dit sal ek dan seker deur jou persoonlike eposadres kan doen?
Ek sal eers DV hier in middel Januarie kan begin. Soms is ons op n plaas wat ver afgelee is, met min beskikbare bronne vir navorsing en baie swak internet-opvangs. Skryfwerk is vir my totaal n nuwe veld, maar sal baie graag daarmee wil begin, veral op hierdie gebied. Dit sal stadig, tree vir tree moet gaan en altyd in die vertroue dat dit nie net bloot kennisinligting sal wees nie, maar woorde wat lewe bring in die lig van die Skrif.
Dankie vir die geleentheid! Baie seen vir julle! R.
Vrede vir jou Riana! intussen kan jy begin om jou kinders te leer wat die “ware leer van die Godsaligheid” is. die Jesus van die Bybel. Die korrekte leer aangaande Jesus, eniggebore (nie enigste-gebore nie) Seun van God, geleef as mens, gely, gekruisig & gesterf, begrawe, opgestaan, opgevaar en sal weer net so kom…. soos Paulus sê:
1 Corinthians 2:2 (King James Version)
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
for your holiday time:
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
cecilia
Deborah and Cecilia
I have found many articles on the 1860-revival on the Net. See Google Search: ‘1860 Revival Worcester Andrew Murray’.
On this there are also other writings on different world-revivals. See the article ‘Revival fires: Stirring accounts of Christian-revivals around the World’ – Andrew Murray 1860, Maria Woodworth-Etter Ohio USA 1880, Evan Roberts Wales 1904, and others.
After reading some of these info, I have some questions you must please help me with?
1. Would God in HIS SOVEREIGNITY still bring revivals forth even in our day?
2. If the answer is yes, how will one discern between the True and the false? In some of these information you see that the TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST was central before or during the events, as well as prayer and REPENTANCE from sin, good fruit and holy lives following.
In other so called ‘revivals’ like Toronto, Brownsville and Lakeland, the above did not play a major role. The manisfestations were clearly occultic.
3. Can it happen that a TRUE revival starts off with the Holy Spirit, but at a later stage the counterfeit can come in and mislead the people further on?
4. Can the outward manifestations of the True and false, look alike? Is it just discernable by those with the gift of Discernment by the Holy Spirit?
5. Will God only favor Jews, and not Gentiles, by giving only them this special supernatural Holy Spirit outpouring like in the Book of Joel, John the Baptist’s revival, Pentecost and other events in Acts and just before the second coming of Christ? Not in our dispensation at all?
6. Will God in His GRACE and mercy override the following facts and still bring TRUE revival in the next circumstances:
a. That the Murrays were Free Masons (satanic society)?
b. The Dutch Reformed buildings,logos and pulpets, have Free Mason, Queen of Heaven/Sunworship and other occultic symbols in or on it and many Egyptian Obelisks in their churchyards and on their graves, espially at the Worcester-, Wellington-, Cape Town-, Aberdeen- and Graaff Reinet Churches? And most churches in SA.
c. That the Dutch Reformed Churches and the Murrays, took part in the (occultic) ‘sacrament of baptism’ (the sprinkling of water on the babies foreheads), which is unScriptural, coming from the Baal/Sungod/Roman Cath.-traditions and in that action binding their children to demons?
Thank you for more discerning insight from you when you have the time to reply?
Kind regards, R.
Ps. The YWAM-college at Worcester are experiencing many manifestations in the past years??
Riana
1. Would God in HIS SOVEREIGNITY still bring revivals forth even in our day?
2. If the answer is yes, how will one discern between the True and the false? In some of these information you see that the TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST was central before or during the events, as well as prayer and REPENTANCE from sin, good fruit and holy lives following.
2a. In other so called ‘revivals’ like Toronto, Brownsville and Lakeland, the above did not play a major role. The manisfestations were clearly occultic.
3. Can it happen that a TRUE revival starts off with the Holy Spirit, but at a later stage the counterfeit can come in and mislead the people further on?
4. Can the outward manifestations of the True and false, look alike? Is it just discernable by those with the gift of Discernment by the Holy Spirit?
5. Will God only favor Jews, and not Gentiles, by giving only them this special supernatural Holy Spirit outpouring like in the Book of Joel, John the Baptist’s revival, Pentecost and other events in Acts and just before the second coming of Christ? Not in our dispensation at all?
6. Will God in His GRACE and mercy override the following facts and still bring TRUE revival in the next circumstances:
a. That the Murrays were Free Masons (satanic society)?
b. The Dutch Reformed buildings,logos and pulpets, have Free Mason, Queen of Heaven/Sunworship and other occultic symbols in or on it and many Egyptian Obelisks in their churchyards and on their graves, espially at the Worcester-, Wellington-, Cape Town-, Aberdeen- and Graaff Reinet Churches? And most churches in SA.
c. That the Dutch Reformed Churches and the Murrays, took part in the (occultic) ‘sacrament of baptism’ (the sprinkling of water on the babies foreheads), which is unScriptural, coming from the Baal/Sungod/Roman Cath.-traditions and in that action binding their children to demons?
Thank you for more discerning insight from you when you have the time to reply?
Kind regards, R.
Ps. The YWAM-college at Worcester are experiencing many manifestations in the past years??
I have no idea… but that would not surprise me because YWAM are hectic apostolic and prophetic
Deborah
Thank you for pouring yourself out in writing on all the different subjects on your web, and taking SO much time answering my questions to the full!!
I have a lot to go and think about, never seeing it quite in this way before! At the moment many things are flashing through my mind: Jesus preaching to 5 thousand and Peter to 3 thousand at a time (personally I prefer the small group); the laying on of hands for the baptism of the Holy Spirit to come ON the believers (Holy Spirit IN them already) for the equiping to be witnesses; the shaking of the building in Acts; Paul speaking in tongues more than others to strengthen himself; the urgent need for the gifts of the Holy Spirit even in OUR day, aswell as the work of the Five Fold ministries to equip and build the believers up; the following of miracles and wonders after the preaching of the Gospelmessage especially for the heathen people in our day who also desperately need the gentle whisper of the Holy Spirit as the Jews also need that! But I am listening to what you are saying and are open to receive seeds of the TRUTH.
You have wonderfully said: ‘What do we NEED MORE than JESUS CHRIST, and to KNOW HIM’? I love the simplicity of the way you see and experience it! All the sweating and striving in our church programmes are in vain.. All the craving and the obsessions around ‘revival’ and ‘sensation’ putting ourselves into bondage again and taking away the focus of our true calling!
TO LIVE IS CHRIST! Thank you again! Riana.
Riana
Let me help you further:
Jesus preaching to 5 thousand and Peter to 3 thousand at a time (personally I prefer the small group);
the laying on of hands for the baptism of the Holy Spirit to come ON the believers (Holy Spirit IN them already) for the equiping to be witnesses;
the shaking of the building in Acts; Paul speaking in tongues more than others to strengthen himself;
the urgent need for the gifts of the Holy Spirit even in OUR day,
as well as the work of the Five Fold ministries to equip and build the believers up;
the following of miracles and wonders after the preaching of the Gospel message especially for the heathen people in our day who also desperately need the gentle whisper of the Holy Spirit as the Jews also need that!
Riana, DTW said it to me once and it took me 1 week (if I remember correctly?) to do what I’m gonna advice you to do now:
All your questions will be answered, and confusion will take a run IF YOU – STOP EVERYTHING, ask the Holy Spirit to help you sort out truth from error, then your only obligation is TO CHOOSE TRUTH, DISCARD ERROR.
from there onward it was literally “easy pie” to discern the voice of Holy Spirit almost immediately concerning things that are not of Him….
it’s worth the try! You’re gonna save yourself a lot of worrying, confusion, questions, etc. and you’ll be able to fully focus on God, His Word, His will (for you…) and the message He wants YOU to carry out to others…
Keep standing then
cecilia
what I left out and actually wanted to say is, “you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free” – meaning:
Through the Word of God you know the truth;
things opposing or not found in the Word of God is Error.
Because truth set you free, you don’t need to understand Error for it to be Error. Error is not Truth.
(hope it makes sense…)
when I came to the place where I had to choose, Holy Spirit gave me these verses:
(because I was doing exactly this)
2 Timothy 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
and
2 Timothy 4:17-19 (King James Version)
17Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
18And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
after I chose to let go (forcefully making my mind subject to the mind of Christ) of ALL my past experiences, manner of doing + speaking + thinking and all that, Father God now brings me times where I can search and research; BUT the difference is, always in the back of my mind – can I draw a line through to what the Word of God has to say about this?
So yes, you don’t have to stop being interested, studying, researching etc. But it must move to the last available space on your life’s calender….
Time is precious, time is short, time is running out…
cecilia
Cecilia
I will do as you say, thank you for your advice and concern!
I’m still battling with a few things: How much of the written Word, of the Old Testament and the New, can we practical apply to our lives today? Where does it say for instance that the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the work of the 5 fold ministries will pass away after the Bible was completed? If people, like NAR and others, have messed these things up and we notice the error and bad fruit from it, do we have the right to throw the baby with the bathwater out? If we can only get into touch and have a taste of Holy Spirit inspired apostolic work, if we can only hear and taste true prophecies right from our Father’s heart, being build up by pure Wordteachings, being lead by committed and caring pastors and hear the Good News preached unhiped-up by compassionate evangelists; will that not be a different story, in bigger or smaller groups? Miracles, signs and wonders has it’s definite place in God’s plans, untill today I believe. Sensation must never be the thing or our focus, but Christ-Himself! And I believe that it’s the system, the church that has it’s roots in Roman C, that is soo messed up. If we as believers can get to the place that we will start to function on the blueprint of the book of Acts, purely and rightful inspired by the Holy Spirit according to the examples of the apostles in the Word, it will be a totally different story: we will stand amaze by God’s love, life and power; the salvation and deliverance in our own lives! We just haven’t tasted yet…!! NAR must never be our plumline, but the written Word, made alive by the Holy Spirit and written down on the tables of our hearts. Jesus Christ is the Life within us, and He has many facets of doing His will and ways in and through us, His body, His beautiful Bride awaiting Him!
Leaving on holiday with the family. I will be thinking on all the info from Deborah and you! Appreciate all of your time corresponding with me! May Father’s grace, joy and favor be with you! R.
all of us who “came out of the system who has it’s roots in the RCC” HAVE TO repent and renounce all the practices and believes we allowed in our lives previously. then go back to the Word of God as the only main source, and by comparing Scripture with Scripture, we will find the answers.
>> “Where does it say for instance that the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the work of the 5 fold ministries will pass away after the Bible was completed?”
see article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/
cecilia
Thank you C, I was gonna post there link here and then forgot.
>> “If we as believers can get to the place that we will start to function on the blueprint of the book of Acts”
I totally believe that we should not “function” on ANY ‘blueprint’ of ANY book in the Bible, nor outside the bible! We should LIVE according to the Holy Spirit of God indwelling us, and this is THE GOD who knows what is written in His Word, and He works through the Holy Spirit in our lives to LIVE a life that will reflects His Word; the Word (Bible) will confirm what the Holy Spirit is teaching us and He will lead us into all truth. We are not supposed to mimic out the times of the Bible writers or those who lived way back then, but rely on God and listen, through prayer and reading of the Word; and He will guide us through His Holy Spirit in our world today where each of us live…
I believe it is because people in churches and movements tried (and is still trying to) to act out the acts/happenings of/in the Bible (NOT compelled in the first place by the Holy Spirit), that many things have gone way-wire.
Many religious movements have this same doing: they use religious books to teach (would-be) followers, and THEN compare it to the Word of God (Bible). and it should be the other way around….
I could be corrected ? ….
cecilia
C
>> NOT compelled in the first place by the Holy Spirit
That’s it
It’s not Holy Spirit inspired. Their structure is based on false doctrine therefore nothing on a false foundation can be biblical. Every born again Christian is equal and we all have the Word of God at our disposal. There is nothing new under the sun for us to know as it is all written in the Word of God. There are preachers and teachers etc. But Apostles and Prophets? What for?
I tell you what for. They can’t handle the fact that this position was filled and completed after scripture was written. It’s called placing oneself on a pedestal and wanting to ADD TO and TAKE AWAY from scripture.
If you go and look at all these so called apostles and prophets, not one of them is genuine. Not one, and there are thousands of them. All little philosophers in their own right with new knowledge and each one’s message is different to the other.
now there’s the buzz word DTW:
philosophy = make sense of something / Word of God / God
If it doesn’t make sense – alter it, bend it – because aren’t we suppose to ‘understand’ the God we worship / serve?
(that’s these ‘alternative’s’ arguing, not applicable on real Bible believing Christians – I hope…)
may I take the time to just say: I’m praying for all those who know me – that FatherGod will keep you save during this madness holiday season; and walk the old year out and the new year in and throughout with you – gently guiding you to THE truth, and after that, gently lead you to tell others THE way…
blessings! cecilia
Francois
You have clairvoyance. Just because your dreams and visions come true does not mean it’s of God. Does this so called gift you have bother you?
Do your visions and dreams lead people to true salvation and make them pick up their bibles and study the bible ONLY? Or does your ‘gift’ make people believe in the paranormal?
The Bible tells us that each and every Born again Christian has the Holy Spirit abiding in them who councils them, leads them into ALL truth, tells them what is right and what is wrong. The Holy Spirit will always send a person directly to the Word of God for answers and not to a person who can fortune-tell.
Please do not see what I am saying to you as an insult. There is nothing wrong with you mentally. You need to seek Jesus Christ and He will remove this from you. You do not even need to seek so called ‘deliverance’ from other people to help you.
Because you have believed Satan’s lie that what you have is from God, you have disobeyed God. But this problem can be solved and that is by simply coming before Jesus Christ in ALL earnest, in ALL sincerity and asking Him into your life. You need to be truly born again, saved by Jesus Christ and your sin washed away by the Blood of Jesus Christ – you will me made new, a new person in Jesus.
I would like you to go and read this article Francois and come to accept Jesus Christ TOTALLY, 100% into your life. Get rid of this demonic affliction. You are not possessed! Don’t mistake oppression by demonic forces that you are possessed. If you have ever accepted Jesus Christ into you life but you were never really that sincere it’s about time you get sincere with Jesus Christ.
God speaks to you through the Bible and the Holy Spirit who is convicting you RIGHT NOW that what is happening to you is not of God. You know deep down it’s not right.
So Francois, let Jesus Christ the Son of God renew your mind, let Him into your life, (and only He can renew your mind) and become a child of God.
No where on my website do I condone the supernatural. I lived a terrible life prior to being truly saved Francois. You are not the only one who had demonic oppression but when I was truly saved I was set free. (I did not have what you have, but I saw stuff that I should not have seen). God removed this from me and I am free.
You have a choice now, do you want to be free from this bondage you are under and come before Jesus Christ and ask forgiveness for your sin; for everything you have done in your life, for accepting that this so called gift you have is from Him when it is not? You are facing a spiritual battle as Satan will do his best right now to try convince you that this gift is from God to keep you under his control. You can tell him to leave you alone once and for all by accepting Jesus Christ as your Saviour and REPENTING OF ALL YOUR SIN.
PS, Sort your life out with God first Francois. Asking Jesus to forgive you for ALL your sin (and name your sin in your prayer (you know what is right and what is wrong) to show Jesus how sincere you are) is all you need to do to come into a genuine saving relationship with Him. Acknowledge once and for all that these dreams and visions are not from Him and He will deliver you. And please do not go seek help at a church, do not let anyone lay hands on you, just go sit on your couch and ask Jesus into your life and repent – repentance is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Jesus needs to know you are sincere.
And just remember one thing, once you are genuinely saved, if Satan tries to sneak back into your life, ignore him and ask Jesus for forgiveness and ask Jesus to help you in your walk with Him. Prayer is a conversation with Jesus. It’s an intimate one on one prayer/conversaton with Jesus where you just let Him know how you feel and how you want HIM to come into your life and how you want HIM to control your life. You love Him, you revere Him as your Lord and Saviour, He is your King, and if you disobey Him and seek after things that He tells you to stay away from, you will pay the price for your sin on earth. Eg, if you steal you will get into trouble? right? If you play with fire you will get burnt right? If you have a recurring dream and you think it just might come true again, you are falling back into satans trap. But the moment you come back to Him and ask Him to forgive you He forgives IMMEDIATELY – but you WILL WANT TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS. If you don’t want to change but keep asking God to forgive you, then it’s kinda pointless, right? Like having a friend who always hurts you, treats you badly or ignores you, but insists they are your friend – it’s clear they are not your friend.
Get sincere Francois. You know what’s going on in your heart. Find Jesus Christ, and remove Satan out of your life once and for all. Oh and lastly ask Jesus to forgive you for all the people you prophesied too. And if you see these people again, tell them that you are sorry for what you did, that it was not from God and tell them why. They then have the choice to seek God on the matter – just as you are doing right now.
Anymore questions, you can comment again. Also remember, many people read this and there is someone out there in the same position as you, and your situation and my reply will help someone out there who is struggling with the same oppression.
Francois
Ek het net gou kom inloer by hierdie bladsy, en my oog vang toe jou skrywe. Ek wil nie graag enigiets bylas tot wat Deborah hierbo geskryf het nie. Haar advies oor hierdie onderwerp is in die kol en Bybels korrek.
Ek wil net noem dat indien daar meer sulke advies beskikbaar gestel was deur die kerke vandag, sou baie minder mense so swaar gebukkend gewees het onder die vreeslike verdrukking, misleiding en skuld wat Satan, deur verkeerde leringe, verlore mense onder plaas.
Seenwense vir jou!
Hoor hoor Grant!
Francois!!
Giam hier! baie welkom
Grant
>> Ek wil net noem dat indien daar meer sulke advies beskikbaar gestel was deur die kerke vandag…
That’s it. They do not tell you this at all. They will come up with all sorts of other stuff to lead you in every other direction instead of genuine repentance with Jesus Christ who will deliver you – if one is sincere of course.
Francois I am not going to post your comment. [EDITED: It was out of common decency from my part that I did not want to post your comment, but you have requested I post you comment, so I have posted your comment – see above: 2010/05/04 at 7:33pm. Everything in this comment below still applies]
All I am going to say to you is, if you are REALLY sincere you WILL ask God for genuine forgiveness through His Son Jesus Christ.
This is what I am going to say to you based on just two thing you said in your comment.
You said, “….focus on repentance and conversion of sin before being saved. Just another church or dogma.” Um, there is your problem Francois, you refuse to ask God for forgiveness of your sin and CHANGE YOUR WAYS. If you don’t want to change your ways there is nothing anyone can do for you. Only Jesus Christ can help you. You will not be able to change your lifestyle by your own power and this is what you are trying to do. Your life is a mess because of your own doing, no anyone else’s. And no, living in sin…”or thinking I can attain a standard of living that will make me acceptable before God” is just wrong. You want to live in sin and have God accept your sin. Your openness to me is not going to change how you want to live your life. And saying that you don’t go looking for strange things, that they just seem to find you is ridiculous. Because of your willingness to want to live a sinful life and liking the ideas of certain things you have automatically opened yourself and welcomed Satan into your life. You don’t want to give up your sinful life Francois. You like the life you are living. You speak about repentance but you at the same time are not really sorry.
Francois, this is my prayer for you. That you come to genuine repentance and have the Holy Spirit come to abide in you that you are genuinely saved and that you will want to change your ways because of the Holy Spirit guiding you and leading you.
Francois
I did not put your comment online simply because I did not want the public to know your personal life details. I thought out of common decency I would keep your life details out of the public eye. But if you want, I will put it online. Actually no, I am going to remove both your comments and leave mine to you as a reminder. No one knows who you are and no one needs to know who you are. Jesus is the most important ONE in your LIFE and HE knows who you are and what’s in your heart.
If praying that you sort out your life with Jesus Christ is being judgemental then Francois, I don’t know. You wanted advice from a biblical perspective, and I gave you advice. You do what you want with it.
I pray again Francois that you listen to God once and for all and sort your life out.