We Do Not Play ‘Sloshed in the Spirit’ Anymore
â† the New Apostolic Reformation / Latter Rain / Manifest Sons of God (slowly but surely merging with the Emergent Church) Magazine
When all these intoxications, slain in the spirit, convulsing, laying paralysed on the floor for hours, laughing, fire being called from the heavens, kicking people to be stomach to heal cancer, healing angels accompanying the pastor, pastor waving his arms calling down fire from heaven onto the congregation and the people would fall over, when these things were taking place, when there were fake healings, fake resurrections, pastors stories of being magically transported from one place to another, visions of supposed trips to heaven, filling pockets up with gold coins in heaven, communicating with others in heaven, etc. When Lee Grady (Apostle in the New Apostolic Reformation and editor for Charisma Magazine (with founder being Stephen Strang) witnessed all of this, did not once during the duration of the Todd Bentley Lakeland Outpouring Revival say in any of his articles anywhere;
‘No, people, No. This is not God. Stop, don’t go, you are being conned out of your money, you are being lied too, there is a fake holy spirit coming over you”
Never did Lee Grady say this or anything remotely similar, there was NO warning what-so-ever. In fact Lee Grady endorsed it and helped spread the fire (that fake holy spirit). So coming out now with an article like this is just laughable, telling people to calm down, as the ‘play play’ games are now over. None of this should have ever happened in the first place if you and your apostle and prophets friends read the Word of God and had an ounce of discernment.
Well Lee, you see it was not a game, a manifestation means just that; something unworldly, something supernatural, something demonic manifested through these people and are now in serious spiritual trouble. This is not a laughing matter or a game. You think the fire they call down is from God, His Holy Spirit? They call down Satanic fire and it sweeps over people, placing their minds into spiritual bondage.
You speak about ‘Walla walla bing bangs’, what about Todd baptising people in water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Sheeka boom ba bam. This over a year ago already. Must we mentiontion that this intoxication by this fake spirit is so old news that well, the newspapers have turned yellow already. And trying to only now expose John Crowder is well…stupid.
But we are sure that after this little article (of missdirection and dissinformation), that Charisma magazine will again jump on the next wave of satanic deception disguised as Christianity. Oh I am too late, I see you are already advertising ‘Radicalis’.
To say that Charimsa magazine runs a farse is an understatement. Love the scripture quoting never the less. Gotta throw that in for good measure. Must have taken you guys ages to find them.
Getting “drunk in the Holy Spirit” has been a popular concept in some churches. But is it biblical?
Tuesday, 27 October 2009 11:51 AM EDT
by J. Lee Grady
A few years ago a traveling charismatic minister from the West coast passed through Florida to conduct a series of renewal meetings. I’d never heard of the guy, but the rumor was that he carried a “special” anointing. It was unique, that’s for sure-especially when he took the microphone, slurred his words as if intoxicated and leaned to the left of the pulpit as if he were about to fall over. Then, in between some bizarre spasms, he would shout what sounded like “Walla walla bing bang!”
His message didn’t make sense. But if he had just said “Ding Dong Bell” or “Yabba Dabba Doo” over and over, some people in his meetings would have run to the front of the room and swooned, even though he never opened his Bible during his message. They wanted what this man claimed to possess-an anointing to become “drunk in the Spirit.” [DTW: Lee let me know where you rebuked Stacey Campbell and Cindy Jacobs for doing the exact same things? Hmm that’s gonna be a tough one because they are Apostles/Prophets too and belong to the International Coalition of Apostles ICA, like yourself.]
“Let’s put the childish things behind us. It’s time for us to grow up and sober up.”
Spiritual intoxication has been a trend in charismatic circles for a while. Some respected preachers, citing Acts 2:13, defend the concept that Christians might feel drunk when they are filled with the Holy Spirit (because the early disciples were accused of being drunk when they spoke in tongues). This teaching led to lots of disorderly conduct in revival meetings-including nosebleeds, bruises and more serious injuries.
Some people began to manifest what looked like seizures during renewal services, and the bizarre behavior was defended as “manifestations of the Spirit.” Some pastors even encouraged wobbly saints to find “designated drivers” if they felt too drunk to operate a vehicle when it was time to go home. Meanwhile, some worship leaders introduced “Holy Ghost drinking songs” that encouraged people to slosh around in the joy of the Lord while uncorking more of His new wine. [DTW: you were the guys who promoted this New Wine and New Wine skin and new move of God – now you are saying it was someone else? Liars. You chop and change like your fake winds that seem to pop up all over the place.]
The spiritual drunkenness craze led to other charismatic fads, including an infatuation with angels, an obsession with golden dust and the strange teachings of John Crowder-a confessed “new mystic” who compares the infilling of the Holy Spirit to smoking marijuana. [DTW: Oh blame John Crowder now. Gee whiskers, what did he do to upset the NAR. You guys are part and parcel of this. This is now the most serious pot calling the kettle black ‘manoeuvre’ if ever I have seen one. The NAR is full of mysticism you just preach it differently and teach if differently].
Crowder, who is planting a church in Santa Cruz, Calif., this fall, sometimes calls his meetings “sloshfests” and refers to himself as a bartender for God. He teaches that God wants all Christians to be continually drunk in the Holy Spirit-and he provides resources to help you do just that, including an electronica recording that will help you, in Crowder’s words, “trance out,” and a teaching that encourages stigmata and levitation. [DTW: Um, Lee Grady, Randy Clark (who pastored a Vineyard church is credited for bringing ‘holy laughter’ to Toronto Airport Vineyard church (pastored by John Arnott) after catching it from Rodney Howard-Browne. Rodney Howard-Browne (another South African) is considered the father of the laughter movement, even called himself a Holy Ghost Bartender. Why don’t you say anything about that? John Crowder is known for being a complete crack pot so your point is? Nothing really, he is just being used as a little pawn in the giant NAR chess game.
To prove it, you won’t say anything about Joyce Meyer who preaches that you are a god who I see is in this months (Nov 09) online issue of Charisma or what about Patricia King’s Blue Flame or her Ekstasis worship dance clubs? But alas, tis not all, a big cast iron pot of fools gold and plastic gem stones have been spotted on Charisma’s website for the month of Nov 09.
Charisma advertises a conference to be held in Rick Warren’s backyard (Saddleback Church) – Rick Warren – author of the Purpose Driven ‘you just name it’ books and adviser to Barack Obama on ‘all things that sound like they could be Christian’ invite you and your team to attend “Radicalis”, February 9-12, 2010, with the following EMERGENT thinkers: Andy Stanley, Brad Powell, Dave Holden, Dino Rizzo, Doug Fields, Gerald Sharon, John Baker, Kay Warren, Kerry Shook, Buddy Owens, Pete Scazzero, Mark Driscoll, Perry Noble, Rick Muchow, Steve Adams, Steve Gladen, Tom Holladay]
I’ll let the theologians sort out all the obvious reasons why Crowder and other “new mystics” are treading on dangerous ground. Meanwhile I have a less complicated concern. With all of this emphasis on Holy Ghost intoxication, did anybody notice that the Bible clearly commands us to be spiritually sober? [DTW: New Apostolics trying to expose Emergents – what a laugh…laugh, laugh, laugh.]
If soberness wasn’t mentioned in the New Testament, then I wouldn’t be beating this drum so loudly. [DTW: and when did you figure this out Lee? Definitely was not last year when you were praising Todd and the Glory of God manifesting over Lakeland). But I find numerous references, from both Peter and Paul. “But you, be sober in all things,” is Paul’s admonition to Timothy (2 Tim. 4:5, NASB). He tells the Thessalonians, “But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation,” (1 Thess. 5:8).
Peter hammers the same point. He wrote, “Prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 1:13) and “The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer” (1 Pet. 4:7).
The soberness here is not primarily a reference to abstaining from alcohol (although it’s worth mentioning that believers who drink will find it more difficult to obey these commands). To be sober can be defined “to show self-control,” “to be sane or rational,” or “to be free from excess or extravagance.” A sober Christian knows the heights of God’s inexpressible joy, but he is never ruled by emotions, passions, lust or any other category of temptation that has the power to dull the spiritual senses. [DTW: oh good grief, a ‘sober’ Christian will never be ruled by these things because of a REAL and GENUINE relationship with Jesus Christ the Son of God through REPENTANCE OF SIN. And, ‘sober in spirit’ has got absolutely nothing to do with alcohol *I can’t actually believe what I am reading…anyhow*.
What Lee Grady is subtly pointing toward, is that, in order for Charisma Magazine to start to introduce contemplative spirituality they have to now tell their audience that the days of excess and extravagance is over. You need to slow down, take control, be sober, be rational…be quiet and be still within yourself so you will be able to use all your senses to their full capacity in order to clearly hear god’s voice]
When I look at the state of our nation today, and consider our spiritual challenges, it’s obvious the last thing we need are Christians who are so sloshed in emotional euphoria that they can’t pray intelligently and work diligently. [DTW: I mentioned last year that it was quite obvious that there was going to be a separation or sorts coming within the NAR ranks. Poor Todd Bentley was used as a primary example of ‘WHAT NOT TO DO…’ at church. For the sole purpose that the other (Apostles and Prophets) could come out looking like super champions – with a message to the masses of:
‘We ourselves where duped, we didn’t know, please just forgive and forget…come follow us’.
The problem was that people were beginning to see right through them – so they needed to cool that fire down just a tad – go back to being more sober (quiet) at church – so as to draw the crowds back. This was all premeditated, all preplanned. Todd was the scape goat.]
This is not a time for God’s people to be incapacitated. We need to be thinking, planning, strategizing, researching and building-all using the Holy Spirit’s wisdom. Yes, we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit like never before-but He is not going to fill us so we can act like giddy freshmen at a frat house keg party. Let’s put the childish things behind us. It’s time for us to grow up and sober up. [DTW: “thinking, planning, strategising, researching and building” what exactly? You mean the idea where you are building the Kingdom of God on earth for Christ’s return (you being the little gods that will rule your patch of land on earth]
J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma
I have known Crowder personally for 20 years now. What you can see with his personality is legitimate. He has always been the crazy creative type. He has always brought the fun to the table and it has always been a blessing. Well, before going off the deep end. He even spent a season of denouncing the prophetic movements. Like morning star ministries for example.
Unfortunately he started his ministry (that eventually was rejected by most people in our town), and has moved away from Alaska where we were living. I still follow him because he is dear as an old friend. Occasionally he says something pretty note worthy. Look up his statements on the calvinist issue on youtube. In fact I messaged him on the issue back in June. This is his reply
“It’s better than Arminianism, because at least they have a strong, electing God who chooses you (salvation is not about our flimsy willpower, decision, choice or ability to pursue God). But it is worse than Arminianism, because their view of sovereignty leads to one of the most demonic doctrines ever formulated by man – limited atonement (or double predestination) – in which that sovereign God sovereignly chooses people to burn forever in hell totally apart from their own choice. So at the end of the day, they believe that God is the ultimate enemy of mankind – the greatest sinner of all, worse than the worst child molester or serial killer … because He wills and intends for countless billions to experience torment forever apart from their own say in the matter. Calvinism and Arminianism are NOT the only two options in theology”
Now obviously he is a little confused about the decision issue and there by contradicts himself in the first part of the reply, but he gets it with Calvinism. He went on to send me a link to his election series. You can find him on youtube talking about election.
All of us who have been close to John who don’t agree with his slosh fest and other charismania ways still love him. As a family friend I leave the light on just in case he comes home.
You may love, follow and revere your crazy, creative and legitimate friend as much as you like. It does not impress God in the very least . In fact, He says:
When I say follow I don’t mean i look to him for counsel or leadership. Just to clear that up.
As far as the verse you quoted goes I exhort you to stop twisting scripture to justify your herecy of hate masquerading as Agape love. Sure you wish to know the truth. So do I! And the truth is people need Jesus. even heretical people. I feel that applies even to this ministry as your tone has always been one step short of Westboro baptist as you seem to need to win the argument. Which shows a lack of humility on your part. I know calvinist who are more gracious and loving in rebuking and reproving than you. So do we treat you in the same regard, or do we show patience with you as I have been doing in hopes to see repentance? Again, i leave the light on on the porch in hopes my prodigal brother comes home. I do the same for you. Rather you believe it or not, you are of the same spirit as you accuse Crowder of though you have the opposite of doctrinal extremes. Obviously you are not a continuationist.
By the way Westboro baptist is a calvinist ministry and yet your attitude is much like theirs.
With that I say may the Lord bless you with the Spirit of wisdom and revelation. Oh wait. That quote from ephesians probably sounds charismatic… my bad
But seriously. May He enlightened you to your own demise.
Yes! Crodwer has some herectical beliefs
Yes! He is error
But no! he doesn’t deny the cross. Which in context is what 2 john is talking about.
I will treat you of the same regard if your interpretation is THE TRUTH, because I know from reading some of the articles and your tone you are not of THE TRUE Christ either.
Wait for it…
Wait for it….
Here comes a reply because DTW MUST HAVE the last word… another sign of spiritual pride which is the sin of pharisees
Your problem is that you don’t like Scripture to be quoted word for word. It hurts, doesn’t it, especially when you are in error? It is supposed to hurt.
Well, Satan and his demons do not deny the cross either. Does that make them good candidates for heaven?
If I do not answer you, you will have the last word . . . not so? Would that not have made you the Pharisee . . . you know, the guy with the last word?
Hello Discerning the world. I am getting back to you to let you it finally came to the point I spoke with John Crowder. He has even some wacky theology now. “Hopeful universalist”. I am attaching a link to his website to where he is going. He isn’t a universalist, but leans towards it. He is puffed up. I graciously leveled with him over facebook and we are no longer friends on Facebook. It is a shame to see him acting the way he does. Even on a personal level. Either you are on board with him, or you’re not. That is what his actions say. You should look up his youtube profile. And watch his election series introductions. Look up his inclusion videos. He is into “theology/biblical studies” now
We became friends in the Lord in 1996. We were going a “prophetic”/charismatic ministry on friday nights where I gave him a ride home. We hit it off. We were peas in a pod. We went to homer ak then he moved away after startng his ministry. I can attest because I was behind the scenes, that he faked his update videos where he said he was “drunk” in the Lord. I was hanging out with him when he and Ben Dunn started rcording their update. They went from normal to putting on a show where they said “we’re drunk”. They came to Homer for a slosh fest. I did go to see what He was like ministering in his new ministry. It was typical charismatic puffiness.
Though I admire his distaste for the traditions of men that we all can fall into, I know he has started his own, or at least got into a new version of an old heretical one.
Please email me at the email I used in posting the comments to reply to me. I am interested in conversing directly because the site doesn’t notify me when you have replied
I need to check the comments going back, but I can’t remember who you are :). Anyhow we know John Cowder is as false as they get. He said “Some of my favorite Trinitarian writers are C.S. Lewis, Fr. Robert Capon, C. Baxter Kruger and perhaps the most prominent theologian of the 20th century, Karl Barth. ” We know that Karl Barth is an occultist. In fact I wrote about him in an article or comments section a few years ago. C. S Lewis ended up a Catholic on his death bed, before that he was an assortment of false beliefs.
See here: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/29/the-new-evangelical-evil-fit-for-a-new-dark-age/
Thanks, Discerning the world. 🙂