Choo Thomas – Heaven is so Real – Is it Really?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Discerning the World is an internet Discernment ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa that was founded by Deborah du Rand in 2008. Tom Lessing joined Deborah in May 2013. Tom Lessing founded the website “Waak en Bid/Watch and Pray” which was closed in 2013 and articles moved across to DTW.

74 Responses

  1. Michael Anthony says:

    Bob De Waay was on Jan Markel’s radio show a while back – very interesting program on claims of trips to heaven and hell.

    http://so4j.com/false-visits-to-heaven-and-hell-bob-dewaay.php

    (the mp3 audio link is there)

    Rule number 1 on manifestations:

    The fruit of the Holy Spirit is SELF-CONTROL. (Galations 5:22)

    These manisfestions are devoid of any self-control. Because…of a lack of knowledge & understanding.

    2 Peter 1:6 (New King James Version)

    6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,

    The bible is clear.

  2. Hi Deborah. Wow! You really did some homework! I love how you have been able to hit the nail right on the head with CT.
    Thanks for letting me use your one post on her. now I have to point people to this article! You have done more studying on her than i have been able to find. Thanks, I really appreciate it. It keeps me from having to go out and buy the book!

  3. cecilia says:

    trust me, the book = waiste of money (someone made me a photocopy, so I didn’t pay anything tho’). people think to read the book is to see heaven! no, serious! my tough job is to explain the truth to ex-Hindu’s. they LOVE this book and circulates it as far they can! this book is bad news in the circles of ex-Hindu’s!
    aaawwhh well, knowledge comes from Word+Holy Spirit will quicken the right words at the right time!
    But yeah, +++ 4 u Debs!
    cecilia

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Redeemed Hippie

    Yip, cos that book has trapped a person I once ‘knew’. They told me about it and I read it. When I tried to tell them there was something terrible about the book they refused to listen.

    So I went all out to analyse and research Choo Thomas. And now you really don’t need to waste your money on the book, by a chocolate instead :)

  5. Rista says:

    Hi Deborah, I ‘stumbled’ upon this post and have a question – not really relevant to the heading but to ‘Scriptures to remember’ part. A friend who does missionary work in India told me that Jesus appeared to the son a chief of one of the remote villages where they had no success with bringing the gospel and told him to tell the rest of the village that He is coming soon and they have to get ready for He is going to judge everyone with fire. They came to the missionary in the area and asked him to tell them about ‘his’ Jesus. But for the fact that they asked to be told more about ‘his’ Jesus and what they have to do to accept Him as their Saviour, I was very skeptical – the people around there grow up as Hindus and their kundalinis must be awakened at an early age. Apparently this is something that is happening quite often these days and it seems as though these people are giving their lives to Christ in big numbers – with repentance and being baptized. I think it is a lot easier to simply accept these appearances as legitimate when one has no knowledge of the kundalini spirit and its effects on a person. Have you ever watched Eben Swarts’ DVD’s on the kundalini?

    God bless and keep well!

  6. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Rista

    ….that Jesus appeared to the son a chief of one of the remote villages where they had no success with bringing the gospel and told him to tell the rest of the village that He is coming soon and they have to get ready for He is going to judge everyone with fire.

    Totally correct. This is not Jesus Christ.

    No 1. Jesus said that if anyone tells you they saw Him here and there, that they are not to be believed for the only time we will see Jesus again is when He returns and then EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM.
    No 2. “going to judge everyone with fire” This sure sounds like Satan. Judgement by fire yes for the unsaved, but not for born again Christians.
    No 3. The Bible is the Word and the Word is Jesus Christ. If the people were not wanting to accept the Word by the working of the Holy Spirit then something is wrong…which leads us to this…
    No 4. This Jesus that showed up did not lead the people to the Word of God.
    No 5. This Jesus did tell the ‘truth’ kinda; Satan is coming as a false-Christ and he will judge everyone with nothing but death and destruction.
    No 6. Of course people will be baptised under false teaching and come to some form of false repentance. Satan counterfeits everything.
    No 7. So this false Christ is appearing to Hindu’s too in droves and they are coming to a false salvation? Well it’s happening with Muslims too.

    Kundilini is the awakening of the serpent (Goddess Kundilini) at the base of your spine. (You feel heat, electricity, you convulse, see visions, dreams, all sorts of thing, you find god inside, and become god). To put it into western terms: the moment you start to practise contemplative spirituality you are immediately activating the Chakra’s in your body. 1st Chakra at the base of your spine all the way to the top of your head. The energy flows up and down the body as though it’s a snake (think of a spiral like DNA). As you start to activate these Chakra’s you end up opening your ‘third eye’ and you have an ‘awakening’ by a FALSE ‘holy spirit’. This can be drawn in the diagram of the tree of life. There is a ‘tree of life’ in every religion and it all ends up at the same point – where you become god and infused with the cosmic Christ and the universe and all sorts of rubbish as you reach the 7th Chakra aka Crown chakra at the top.

    What used to take occultists years to practise and achieve can now happen in a few minutes, just by having someone lay hands on you, or just sitting in silence in your room ‘meditating’. Satan is running out of time, he is working super fast and he can’t wait years for people to accept the false spirit that is snatching souls at a rate of knots, so he has given people ancient knowledge on a platter to the church and they are feeding it to the flock and they are lapping it up.

    I am actually doing an article on this… been working on it for a while now, but seeing that you asked this question I will try get it out sooner because what I have to say will explain exactly what is being taught and how all the 5 Christs from the 5 major religions fit into the picture.

    As for the DVD, nope I have not seen it.

  7. Mariette says:

    But sometimes God turns evil (sometimes unknown) intent into good results? I heard about similar story like above of where a chief in a very remote place in Africa received a vision of a man, calling himself Jesus, saying to gather his people together for He is sending His people to tell them more about Him. When the missionaries got there, all these people were waiting for them. There is an explosion of baptism there and of witchdocters turning to the living God. You want to say that Jesus will not appear to anyone in these days?

  8. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Mariette

    You want to say that Jesus will not appear to anyone in these days?

    Well my bible says this:

    Matthew 24:23-27 23 If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!–do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones). 25 See, I have warned you beforehand. 26 So if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness (desert)–do not go out there; if they tell you, Behold, He is in the secret places or inner rooms–do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning flashes from the east and shines and [h]is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

    What bible do you read?

  9. Mariette says:

    (Oh I could’t find this post – praat van verstooidgeid).
    I read the Bible NKJV .

    Yes, I was also thinking about the verse you quoted above (and thinking alot about this verse in general nowadays). But it’s like there is a third party involved during “misleading”. A person goes to another person and tells about an appearance of Jesus. Third party scenarios many times creates havock doesn’t it. But when Jesus directly appears to the primary person to introduce that person to salvation?
    I immediately thought about the life-changing event Saul went through, this after Jesus’s resurrection right, (Acts 9:5)
    -“…And he said,’Who are you, Lord?’ Then the Lord said,’I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'”
    Saul relives what happened before authorities in Acts 22:8, telling them – …”So I answered,’Who are You, Lord?’ And He said to me,’I am Jesus of Nazareth,whom you are persecuting.'” (Confirming there weren’t some mistranslation – it’s actually meant to say Jesus).

    But certainly yes, if another person comes to me claiming anything regarding/surrounding Jesus, I have learnt to be very cautious (yet, I have been mislead a few times).

  10. fiona says:

    but if muslims are having visions of Jesus and they are truely repenting and turning to Jesus, then isnt Satan taking a risk that some of thesee people will really repent and come to know the Lord and be saved? Why would satan take that risk? Why wouldnt satan just turn up as a more alluring hindu god with healing power to definetly keep them from Jesus and the Gospel?

  11. fiona says:

    Do you believe there any miracles or signs today which are genuinely from the Lord? Ive seen a few, not many, spontaneous healings in the Lord’s name which brought about the person’s conversion to follow Jesus.

  12. Phillip says:

    Thank you for an article well researched. ‘This kundalini evil spirit is the one which will cause the most confusion / damage in Christianity of all times’; this devine message was given to me whilst I was doing research on the same subject. I aslo came across many horror stories related to this demonic spirit.

    You might have noticed the massive kundalini display (complete with chakras) with the opening of the Commonwealth Games in India recently – demonic arrogance.

    Testimony
    David writes:
    I went to Lakeland 3 times. I was so drawn to go there. I really thought it was of God… I had so many supernatural experiences – to seeing a mystical Jesus with a third eye, angels talking to me, visions, being transported. ……I had one experience with my daughter being in the room and her experiencing it too. I was roaring like a lion, had gold dust and many other experiences. The worst thing that happened to me is that it got sexual. This false Jesus was approaching me sexually and I fell into it. I still to this day do not understand how I could have been so decieved. I have been a Christian since the age of 16. I am 49 now… I fell right in… hook,
    line and sinker. When I came home that last visit I became aware it was demonic, and I was surrounded and covered with demons literally, it was so horrible, all that I went through, you cannot imagine… I was seeing demons and being touched sexually and tormented constantly.. it has been 1 1/2 years and I am still battling these demonic spirits. I cry out to the Lord everyday for total deliverance. It has been horrible. I have renounced and repented, but still fighting.

  13. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Phillip

    Oh my word, that is such a tragic testimony :(

    Yes I saw the opening ceremony for the Common Wealth games and oh boy how bad was that? Now people who didn’t know anything would go and research to find out what it’s all about.

  14. Daughter of Zion says:

    I started reading the book two days ago. My aunt recommended it to me. Right now I wished I had never some across it.last night I read the part where her body was contoured and transformed so many times. The pain and agony she went through. Couldn’t understand what she was talking about most of the time. I went to sleep and all through the night my body hurt me. I woke up thinking I hurt so little and marvelled at what CT had been through.

    Got my senses back. Went online to research cause I knew something was really wrong with me. I’m in shock! Iv prayed rejecting the book and whatever I got from it. My body hurts a little now (its no coincidence-this has never happend to me before!)

    I wont be opening another page.

  15. Daughter of Zion says:

    Sorry!! So many errors :)..should have read it after typing. Oh my

  16. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Dear Daugher of Zion

    Thank the Lord Jesus Christ that you shut that book closed as fast as your opened it. Now just ask Jesus forgiveness for reading it and all will be 100% back to normal. In future, first do research on the book ;)

  17. Daughter of Zion says:

    Done! I will definately do a research. Nothing is worth seperating me from the Love of the Lord! Stay blessed.

  18. SYLESA says:

    Hello all. I have been reading some of the blogs. The condition of the “church” is very frightening. So much deception, the scriptures are being spiritualized and allogorized and twisted by so many false teachers and false prophets and false apostles , so called and self appointed.I pray that the Lord will give me and all of you out there that are searching to know the truth, the discernment we all need to overcome the myriad of false doctrines that are out ther today.

  19. Love says:

    I read this book and recommended to many people. :(

    Can I tell you something, I was reading it and finished it in two days… It’s how fast I rad all books. Anyways, I hate the fact that she always made it sound like she was so perfect and always obedient, and always goody goody. It annoyed me, because as human we’re all sinners. She always seems to reiterate how she was the “chosen” one and that annoyed me too. So what you’re more special than me? God’s love is never ending and never changing but most of all he loves us all the same whether we’re super obedient or not. Good works and his approval does nott make one better.

    So, after I read that books, there was a fear in me that was instilled. I stayed up all night, crying and asked Jesus, will i get to go to heaven? I’m nit as obedient as her, but will I get to go to heaven? Will I get to see you? I am doing all I can Jesus to be good. And for days I tried to do everything perfect, I felt like I wasn’t good enough, I cried. I rebuke this stupid book because it instilled fear, hate, rejection in me all because she made it like she was so much more “special” than I was. Jesus chose her.

    I believe that was a spirit of evil. On her website there was some people she quoted and took articles and reposted them – a lady when to he’ll with Jesus and saw Christians in hell because a lady did not pay her debt like credit cards, then another that was in hell because she did fraud and didn’t repent, another was in hell because she did not forgive! Really? Where is the grace and love of God here. I don’t know what this choo thomas,as is trying to do but she is trying to instill fear into people, but we are to only fear God with love.

  20. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Thank you Sylesa!

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Love

    I know exactly how you feel. When I read her book I felt the same way. I thought, why is she so special and I am not. What did she do to become to special and what must I do to become as special as her? I cried. I felt terrible. I was only on page 20. The holy Spirit told me to throw the book away. I threw it away and the bondage that was over me left.

    As born again children of God we are ALL EQUAL. :))

  22. sylesa says:

    i have come to realize that the written word is our only anchor for our soul and for our faith. The scriptures say that god has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness in the Word of God.Every feeling, every thought, and yes every EXPERIENCE must be measured by the Word of God.How else to protect ourselves from lying signs and wonders? For instance, the scriptures say {Paul speaking}…if i or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that which you have recieved, let him be accursed! AN angel speaking from heaven would be quite an experience, however , a deceptive one! NOTHING trumps the written Word of God, not even our experiences, let alone our subjective thoughts and feelings! We are fallen and our hearts are desperatly wicked and deceitful and we all would do well to trust Gods Word and not all the unbiblical ideas and “experiences” that people are having. If we search for these “experiences” , i am sure that Satan would aide our own corropt nature and happily ablige.

  23. David says:

    Yeah, I was in a bad place when I read this book and it scared me so badly that I literally had fear in the pit of my belly…I tried to get my act together after reading this book. In hindsight, given where I was at the time, I supposed God used to it to REALLY shake me up–and believe me, I had a total spiritual meltdown over the whole experience. But I had the fear, the feeling of hopelessness of ever seeing Heaven, the panicked, fearful attempts to clean up my act—constant worry, sometimes so bad that only the Spirit could calm me down…I spent days trying to figure out how I could ever make it past the “valleys” of Heaven–and even decided a valley was better than hell.

    Took me a loooooong time to get away from this book, and sometimes it still haunts me. Took a number of people talking about it with me (some of whom got a bad feeling from the book or her site) and even a deacon friend of mine who went over, point by point, with me how what Choo said was off and how it was demonic while he sent me a number of researched articles about her.

    But yes, it’s BAD–and there are STILL a LOT of people being taken in by the book. It’s an 80%/20% lie where a lot of what is said SEEMS to line up with the bible, but it just has that 10-20% TWIST that makes it a lie….ex:the book goes on about obedience, so I would freak out when I read about obedience in the NT…so it SEEMS to line up, but it discounts the context of the NT etc…she is INSIDIOUS…

    She’s also deceived—she’s had this big light show sprung on her, the “angel of light” experience, and that might throw anybody–especially in her case as she was so worried about still going to hell even after whatever initial conversion experience she had.

  24. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    David

    Thank the Lord you saw the light and got away from this book. Many can’t see anything wrong with this book and the more the read the more they get sucked into it’s satanic power. This book is possibly the most horrendous book I have ever come across.

  25. Mary Ann W. says:

    “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.” Ephesians 4: 14-15
    I found this book to be a troubling mix of fact and fiction; Biblical fact and man-made doctrine (1 Timothy 6: 3). Although the writer states in her introduction that she does not present this book as doctrine, the young or undiscerning Christian will read and accept all of this material as such. Ms. Thomas is correct in making this statement about her book not being a basis of doctrine as a ‘disclaimer’ but at the same time she has a responsibility before God to make sure what she is presenting in written form as an evangelist is doctrinally sound (2 Timothy 4: 1-5). Unfortunately, I found most of this book to be doctrinally unsound.
    For example, references to saints in a wilderness holding place prior to the Judgment Seat of Christ at which time they will be cast into Hell is totally unscriptural. You are either saved or lost; there is no in between before or after physical death! Jesus declared to the repentant thief on the cross in Luke 23: 43, “This day you will be with me in paradise.” Her visions of saints in sand colored robes, and gray robes are also unscriptural. The only Biblical description of saints in robes is found in Revelations and they are all white: Revelations 6: 11 (martyrs) ; Revelations 7: 9-14 (those that came out of the Great Tribulation).
    Unfortunately, I believe what is being ‘preached’ in this book is a gospel other than what Christ preached (see Galatians 1: 8-9). What we cannot validate from scripture must be tossed aside as unsound doctrine.
    I can truly believe someone being ‘caught up into heaven’ as Paul was but not 17 times. I don’t believe Ms. Thomas or any of us can stack ourselves up to equal the life, call and ministry of the Apostle Paul and all that he suffered for answering the Master’s call. He only spoke of being caught up into paradise one time. Elisha, Elijah and Jesus himself, was taken up once. Also, the many references to Jesus calling her His “special child” is suspect. Are not each one of us special to the Lord? Is He not a respecter of persons? To as many as received Him to them gave He the power to become and be called the sons of God. The inference is that since this person is so ‘special ‘she has a special message from God that everyone needs to hear. Aren’t the warnings and teachings in scripture enough or do we need a ‘new message’ that deviates from the tenant of scripture to warn us?
    Yes, we need prophets today to warn the lost and lukewarm saints, but not ‘extra biblically’. Be careful saints of God! We must take heed to what we hear and measure everything against scripture. We live in perilous, deceptive times. This was prophesied of a truth from Jesus himself and his Apostles reiterated it. (Matthew 24: 11 & 24) Please note that miracles and signs does not validate a prophet or minister. What they teach is what validates him or her. It MUST measure up to the scriptures or THROW it OUT no matter how much the truth may be minced in!!!
    The intent of this post is not to be hateful or ugly, but rather to prove all things and present what deviates from scripture for what it is. Each one of us has a responsibility to be a good steward of the Word of God entrusted to us as believers. I Thess 5: 21

  26. Kerry Scott Gorham says:

    Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
    20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    (a) the law: teaching -or- doctrine.
    (b) testimony: sharing a personal experience.
    (c) light: Truth – God’s Word (John 17:17 “..thy word is truth.)

  27. Maria Leota says:

    Ever since I have read this book, I have had persistant headaches,severe depression etc… so i decided to go online to see what other people thought about this book and NOW I am going to repent and burn the book. Thank you Jesus for this blog! :)

  28. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Maria

    Oh my word, Maria, my dear sister, you go girl, you will be free and listen to the Holy Spirit with regards to other areas in your life as well ok? Jesus is calling you out of the false Christianity in this world, listen to Him.

  29. Robbie says:

    .. and many I talked to started doubting their salvation too Debs. The book makes a nice fire tho…

  30. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Robbie

    Well I can tell you that when I as just saved I read this book and I tell you I nearly went mad. The bondage was horrific. And when I finally listened to the Holy Spirit literally shouting at me ‘throw the book away!!!’ I tore the book up and through it in the bin, I was immediately free. What I relief. And to think I actually cried because I could not understand why Choo was such a ‘special daughter’ to God and I was not. My word, what a fool I was… thank goodness we learn from our mistakes.

  31. Kiona says:

    Choo Thomas: “He wants me to serve as living proof of the Bible and His prophecies, because many people do not believe what they read in the Bible, nor do they believe He is coming soon for His people.” (15ab,16abc)

    Satan is a parasite, a bloodsucker He uses the ‘real things’ like the Bible. Or Jesus. Or Heaven. Imitates them as good as possible, but with some slight (or bigger) variations. It’s like the Japanese used to do: They take a product which was invented by e.g. the Americans. It is succesfull, sells well. People know it and want it. Then the Japanese (no offense intended) take this product and copy it with some variation. Satan cannot create something good. He can only lie, steal, kill and destroy. And he is fantastic copycat. Beware, beware.

  32. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Kiona

    I do believe it’s the Chineese that do that ;)

  33. JW says:

    I have read the book a while ago now. Firstly, I must admit that the thought of the book being a fake brings great relief to me. The thing I’m struggling with is, the book seems to bring people to repentance, coupled with verses like Mark 9:40 (for whoever is not against us is for us) and 1 John 4:1-3 (testing the spirits) I am kind of at a lost now. If I am not wrong, I think CT does confess Jesus to have come in the flesh. I have read some articles which says why the book is false, but I would expect something false to have a much more negative impact. I mean I’m certain that the book deceives us somehow, but deceive us into doing what? The false doctrine seems like a big issue, then again many Christians I know have inaccurate doctrine as well (I can’t say I have perfect knowledge of doctrine as well), because of ignorance. If people do repent because of the book, as long as they don’t start deityfying CT and worshipping the book, wouldn’t that be a good thing? I just want to find the truth. Hope you guys can help me out here.

  34. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    JW

    >> The thing I’m struggling with is, the book seems to bring people to repentance

    Does it really? To which Jesus are people repenting too if they are falling for a book written by Satan?

    >> I mean I’m certain that the book deceives us somehow, but deceive us into doing what?

    This book deceives you into believing in another Jesus, not the Jesus Christ the Son of God of the Bible – who speaks the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH. And this other ‘jesus’ will lead you straight to hell with a gospel that sounds like Christianity but is so far from genuine Christianity.

  35. Burning Lamp says:

    Along this line, has anyone heard of this book?

    http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158

  36. Judy says:

    Hi, Deborah

    I watched a video with Choo describing her experiences on a different website while I was reading up on a Daniel E. from Nigeria. I am glad I read the material on your site. I thought all of the rocking back and forth while she was talking just didn’t seem right. I was wondering if you know anything about the Nigerian pastor’s story about dying and being shown hell. He said that the angel told him he would be going there since he didn’t forgive his wife. The story says that God let him come back to warn the people about unforgiveness. I read his story, and thought about the bitterness that had grown in my relationship with my husband. Also, the hurts I had from various people growing up. I became terrified that I could be going to hell. I cried and cried out to Jesus to free me from it all. Well, shortly thereafter I began having horrible nightmares and hearing an accusing voice saying all sorts of horrible things to me. Then, I started finding myself in a half-asleep state mumbling hate talk…and I would be like “what did I just say”? Then, a feeling of something twisting and applying pressure inside my left chest area started. This has been going on for almost two years now. I wondered if my becoming so fearful wondering if I had forgiven everyone from the bottom of my heart and if that was going to send me to hell like the Nigerian pastor’s story indicated caused all of this torment….or if it is torment because I haven’t forgiven everyone. I need help. Do you know anyone who could help me?

  37. Judy says:

    I was also wondering if anyone here could help me with understanding the verses about “doers of such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” It seems like there is a laundry list of sins and vices that could disqualify you from going to heaven….if I walked around worrying each day if I was “doing such things”…doesn’t that turn into a “works” salvation? I think it would also be fear based. I think some would say that we are saved by grace through FAITH. But others would say that faith without works is dead. But if we are intentionally going around trying to make certain we are doing all of the right “works” so our faith isn’t dead…isn’t that a “works” salvation? Can someone please explain this to me? Tom Brown explains on his website that Matthew 12:32 says “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come.” He emphasizes the “this age or the age to come” part and says that Jesus’ sacrifice paid for ALL of our sins so that we are forgiven in the “age to come,” but if we sin during our life on earth (“this age”), we will have negative consequences to deal with here. He says those sins/consequences won’t be forgiven for this life unless we confess our sins and are forgiving towards others. Is this a sound teaching? Also, I caught the part where Choo said that Christians are supposed to tithe, and if they don’t, they are being disobedient. Then, she said disobedient Christians do not go to heaven…I guess from what I read, she says that they go to a desert? Mary K. Baxter’s stories and the Nigerian pastor’s story also seem to be trying to indicate that one transgression that is not properly repented of sends a person to hell. Do you have any input on the tithing stuff and on the things Mary K Baxter says?

  38. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Dear Judy

    Daniel E did not go to hell because if he did he would still be there. PLEASE Read this article about angels: Do Angels Visit us Today?
    The only Person that convicts us regarding forgiveness is the Holy Spirit and everything that needs to be said on the subject IS ALREADY in the Bible. Daniel E can not say anything more except tell lies and lead people info a false sense of repentance and bondage. The voice you heard is nothing but Satan and because you believed Daniel E you opened yourself to demonic attack. Throw that book away by Daniel E an any other books written by men/women out of your house. Mary K Baxter, Choo Thomas, every last one of them – THROW THEM AWAY. From now on you are going to study the bible ONLY.

    Regarding understanding biblical repentance of sin and salvation (changing of ones ways by the power of the Holy Spirit) please read this article: Lordship Salvation – Putting the Cart Before the Horse

  39. gift says:

    i am sorry this is very long

    my testimony

    i just recently got exposed to many you tube videos and websites that have brought me to know the REAL GOSPEL.in 1916 a man was told by an angel to gather people, for the lord had a gift for them .he got around 60 people and they received the holy ghost coz they spoke in tongues and prophesied at the same time (looks like a pentecost fake version).this man then started a church called the church of the holy ghost (meaning every other church is of this world).my grand parents joined it and so my parents and i were born into it .

    the mans wife had a son and they prophesied that he would be the succesor but when the son had aged he said god did not show him whom of his children should take over .after he died his son said he wanted leadership but the church said no ,he formed a split group.this was considered a big sin and the original church was to hate,gossip ,not communicate with split group even if its a family member .(some don’t even go to family funerals ).

    my point to make is about their doctrines (80% true and very biblical but the rest is just not biblical , heresy , edifying and subtracting stuff from bible )ITS A SABBATH CHURCH,VERY STRICT ONE

    #1.THE COMMUNICATION WITH GOD
    according to them 1 Corinthians 14:27 means that the holy spirit comes upon 2 people and the third person will stand in the middle and listen while a fourth keeps notes. God comes down and talks to them through the two who are under holy spirit influence ,this is called prophesying (to them)

    i have now come to realize that this can not be God nor Jesus coz its not biblical and because of the things that the people say while in the holy spirit .it hurts me to realize that this is nothing but a demonic trans ,i used to believe in the things that were said(HAPPENS ALMOST EVERY THREE SATURDAYS)

    #2 pray 12 times a day (have own clock)

    #3 must confess sin to pastor (always) .if its a big one you go to next level pastor .if bigger they condemn you to hell and out of church (Matthew 18:18).a sin like going to a funeral of the split group is a ticket to hell.(some have been given in my presence)

    #4in end times all churches will die accept THEM

    #5if you leave the church (ticket to hell).god is angry at you (that’s why it took me so long to leave .i pray for my family that is still stuck in such a false)

    #6at the beginning of every year ,you must remember all your sins (even from childhood) and confess so that god can forgive you even more

    #7every other pastor outside of the church is teaching nonsense(it took me time to get myself to listen to other preachers )(not Benny hinn and his gang)

    #8they once said those who saw the second leader are blessed cause through him they saw the founder(copy of “those who saw Jesus saw god cause he is and always will be GOD)

    #9JESUS IS MENTIONED BUT HE IS JUST THE OTHER GUY WHO DIED ON THE CROSS ,THEY PUT THE FOUNDER ON SAME LEVEL AS JESUS

    #10 they wont admit it but its like they have their own TRINITY (THE FATHER (founder),son and holy spirit (the one that comes during the TRANS)

    there is a lot more ,but the sad thing is that this people have been deceived and don’t know the real truth .they have been brain washed its hard to preach the true gospel to them cause the leader told them not to listen to any other person who tell of another gospel (the truth).they believe with all their hearts.they need serious discernment .

  40. gift says:

    i forgot to say that the church has their own extra six steps on how to go to heaven(not biblical ones).they twist and turn scriptures .

    i am shamed to say the only bible verses i usually read were the PRESCRIBED ONES (very few) ,the ones they explain in a very false and unbiblical way ,i now see that their explanations contradict other verses in the bible ,they themselves don’t see it

    when i left my mother and family were not happy.imagine if your friend stopped believing in Jesus (the real one), wouldn’t you feel sorry for their soul , that’s how they felt for me .they believe a lot in these false gospel,just as much as you believe in the real JESUS and the real real real GOSPEL.

  41. tracy says:

    What do you know of Sundar Singh?

  42. Kate Akele says:

    Remind me to stick with Karen Kingsbury and Ted Dekker! Yours is the third site that have mentioned about Choo Nam Thomas. unfortunately, I have the book.Eew!When Rebecca Brown and her associate warned abound this Kundalini stuff in the early ’90s, they were labelled heretics! i felt the same way you felt when reading Choo Thomas’ book, ditto for M.K’S BOOKS. Question is What is going on in the church? The Lord help us all! anyway we are seeing 1 Timothy 4 being fulfilled.Yikes!

  43. geert says:

    I read choo,s book, battled for 4 years with rejection even repented not tithing to God,
    one day I Challenged Jesus to appear to me like Choo Thomas,i said to him he is an unfair God,I am specail to, so I said come I dare you to appear, you know what he never did,then I realised I believed Choo,s lies,I repented threw the book away and got relieve instant,People I believe God let this book be published he could stop choo,s lies buth he give us an eye opener for the end times hululuja for those overcomers if you believe her book you will be decieved in the end times so wake up people God bless Geert

  44. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Geert

    It’s amazing how much bondage one comes under when this book lands in your hands. But repent and throw it away and you are IMMEDIATELY FREE. Thank Jesus you saw the truth!~

  45. reiniel says:

    i don’t believe you deborah

  46. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    reiniel

    don’t make your problems mine.

  47. Robbie says:

    LOL… oops

  48. geert says:

    Deborah thanks for your comment,the strange thing after giving my story,I believe the Lord led me to A webside it tells you about the Kundalini Spirit,if anyone has read the book of Choo Thomas Heaven is so Real and believed it,you have opened the door to the Kundalini spirit,this spirit sits around your spine it colls itself around the spine,I had A dream ones abouth A python snake, never gave it a thougt,now i know the Lord was showing me my state of Kundalini ,goodness me I need to renounce and tear down this stronghold so should all of you who read the book and believed it!one thing more sometimes as I sleep I would breath deep the sound is of an roaring lion,strange sounds my wife noticed it a couple of times,so people listen to this and seek deliverance,people you can trust offcourse Blessings to all Geert

  49. Theo says:

    and Mary Baxter’s book is also fake truth?

  50. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Theo

    >> Mary Baxter’s book is also fake truth?

    Yes

  51. Theo says:

    oh dear… I’ve been recommended that book to everyone I know :(
    would you mind if you care to explain why is it fake/false?

  52. Melissa says:

    Hey

    So, I was busy researching what the Bible says about tattoo’s and if it’s right or wrong. I got such good answers that i thought why not do some background search on everything i’m questioning. One of the things I was uncertain about is the NIV Bible, if it’s misleading or not, and i’m not so sure if i should believe the information i got but i’ll leave those questions for another day. The second thing was these near death expiernces that everyone is talking about. I finished Matric last year and got a holiday job at PNA where they sell Christian Novilties. Most of the people came in looking for that book of that young boy who went to Heaven so i told my one friend that I honestly do not believe in it because the Lord wouldn’t show Heaven or hell to someone to prove that He exist. God gives you your own choice in who you want to follow, either you believe in Him or you don’t, he doesn’t want to force himself onto you or make you believe in him it has to be your own decision and it shouldn’t be made for you by someone else. Anyway back to what i was saying. I got no answers on what the Bible says about near death expierinces so i searched for Heaven is so real and came across this article which made so much sence and really answered most of the questions i had. One thing that got me believing it is, I know you should fear God but in a Fatherly way and not in such a way that you feel torture and experiencing pain from receiving the “holy spirit”. And the second thing is I use to be extremely afraid of seeing demons or like getting a visit from one and i heard from a friend that a demon is most active at 3 o’clock in the morning and one of your quotes were ‘”On January 19, 1996, I woke up at 3:00 in the morning. My body was shaking… I turned my head on the pillow to look in the direction of the sound, and there, all aglow, was a figure dressed in white garments. IT WAS THE LORD…”‘ which set the bar and made me believe that it should be false profitting coz why would Jesus choose a few individuals and not show Heaven to everyone.

    Thank you very much for your article!
    *Blessings

  53. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Melissa

    I am actually going to do an article on that book of that little boy that went to heaven because it’s selling like hot cakes and it’s story is of demonic origin. And I will use scripture to prove why these trips to heave and hell for that matter are false. Keep in touch.

    Debs

  54. Polly says:

    There is also a book by a pasotr, Steve Berger about the death of their son and how he visits them and interacts in their lives. I think it is called “Have Heart”. It is demonic also and appeals to people who have lost a loved one and are very vulnerable. I hope you include this book in your article. This is necromancy and is forbidden in the Bible.

  55. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Polly

    Yip I am looking into that one as well. I hope to have both articles out tomorrow.

  56. Léonard says:

    I also wonder if this was not true, then why throughout the book, the devil want all the world to repent and believe in the existence of paradise and hell. Explain then, why satan want all the world will go to heaven because it is the objective of the book is to demonstrate and encourage people to take action to escape perdition.
    think about it seriously. What does satan. What our Lord wants you to tell lost souls surroundings us, they are so many, everything you watch in TV, in the street, everywhere there are so many, what He expects us to our Lord Jesus

    Our Eternal Father bless you abundantly in Jesus
    Sincere thanks in Jesus Christ

  57. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Léonard

    There are lots of ideas in this book ‘Heaven is so Real’ that appear truth, but when studied against the Bible (The Word of God) they fall short. Many new ideas that are being presented by Choo Thomas as being truth but yet the Word of God says, this is not so.

    Jude was the half-brother of Jesus and a leader in the early church. In his New Testament letter, he outlines how to recognize apostasy and strongly urges those in the body of Christ to contend earnestly for the faith (vs. 3). The Greek word translated “contend earnestly” is a compound verb from where we get the word “agonize.” It is in the present infinitive form, which means that the struggle willbe continuous. In other words, Jude is telling us that there will be a constant fight against false teaching and that Christians should take it so seriously that we “agonize” over the fight in which we are engaged. Moreover, Jude makes it clear that every Christian is called to this fight, not just the local body’s leaders, so it is critical that all believers sharpen their discernment skills so that they can recognize and prevent apostasy in their midst.

    After urging his readers to contend earnestly for the faith, Jude then highlights the reason:For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ” (vs. 4). In this one verse, Jude provides Christians with three traits of apostasy and apostate teachers.

    First, Jude says that apostasy can be subtle. Jude uses the word “crept” (found in no other book of the Bible) to describe the apostate’s entry into the church. In extra-biblical Greek, the term describes the cunning craftiness of a lawyer who, through clever argumentation, infiltrates the minds of courtroom officials and corrupts their thinking. The word literally means “slip in sideways; come in stealthily; sneak in; hard to detect.” In other words, Jude says it is rare that apostasy begins in an overt and easily detectable manner. Instead, it looks a lot like Arius’ preaching in which, in a seemingly dismissive and nonchalant manner, only a single letter differentiates its doctrine from the real teaching of the Christian faith.

    Describing this aspect of apostasy and its underlying danger, A. W. Tozer wrote, “So skilled is error at imitating truth, that the two are constantly being mistaken for each another. It takes a sharp eye these days to know which brother is Cain and which is Abel.” The Apostle Paul also speaks to the outwardly pleasing behavior of apostates and their teaching when he says, “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:13-14). In other words, do not look for apostates to appear bad on the outside or speak dramatic words of heresy at the outset of their teaching. Rather than denying truth outright, apostates will twist it to fit their own agenda, but as pastor R. C. Lensky has noted, “The worst forms of wickedness consist in perversions of the truth.”

    Second, Jude describes the apostates as “ungodly” and as those who use God’s grace as a license to commit unrighteous acts. Beginning with “ungodly,” throughout his letter Jude describes eighteen unflattering traits of apostates so his readers can more easily identify them. Jude says the apostates are ungodly (vs. 4), morally perverted (vs. 4), denying Christ (vs. 4), ones who defile the flesh (vs. 8), rebellious (vs. 8), people who revile angels (vs. 8), who are ignorant about God (vs. 8), those who proclaim false visions (vs. 10), self-destructive (vs. 10), grumblers (vs. 16), fault finders (vs. 16), self-satisfying (vs. 16), people who use arrogant words and false flattery (vs. 16), mockers of God (vs. 18), those who cause divisions (vs. 19), worldly minded (vs. 19), and finally (and not surprisingly), devoid of the Spirit/unsaved (vs. 19).

    Third, Jude says apostates “deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” How do apostates do this? Paul tells us in his letter to Titus: “To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed” (Titus 1:15-16, emphasis added). Through their unrighteous behavior, the apostates show their true selves. Unlike an apostate, one who is a true believer is someone who has been delivered from sin to righteousness in Christ. With Paul, they ask the apostates who promote licentious behavior, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2)

    But the apostates’ false teaching also shows their true nature. Peter says, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves” (2 Peter 2:1). Another aspect of true believers is that they have been delivered out of spiritual darkness into light (Ephesians 5:8) and therefore will not deny core truths of Scripture like Arius did with the divinity of Jesus.

    Ultimately, the sign of an apostate is that he eventually falls away and departs from the truth of God’s Word and His righteousness. The Apostle John signifies this is a mark of a false believer: “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us” (1 John 2:19).

    That God takes apostasy and false teaching seriously is evidenced by the fact that every New Testament book except Philemon contains warnings about false teaching. Why is this? Simply because ideas have consequences. Right thinking and its fruit produces goodness, whereas wrong thinking and its accompanying action results in undesired penalties. It should be remembered that Satan did not come to the first couple in the Garden with an external armament or supernatural weapon, but instead he came to them with an idea. And it was that idea that condemned them and the rest of humankind, with the only remedy being the sacrificial death of God’s Son.

    The great tragedy is, whether knowingly or unknowingly, the apostate teacher dooms his unsuspecting followers. One of the most frightening verses in all of Scripture comes from the lips of Jesus. Speaking to His disciples about the religious leaders of His day, He said, “Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit” (Matthew 15:14, emphasis added). This verse is alarming because Jesus affirms that it is not only the false teachers that go to destruction, but their disciples also follow them. —http://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy.html

  58. Jonathan says:

    Ofcourse we can see Jesus. The bible says Jesus reveals himself

    I saw Jesus when I was 7 years old. It happened as I woke up crying after a nightmare. I saw Jesus (the room was dark) with a robe that was white, shining in light blue. He had a light blue glowing around his face and body too. But not as bright as his eyes shined. He looked straight at me, his eyes radiated so much Love, grace, humility and compassion towards me. I couldn’t see his eyes, because of the light blue light in his eyes.

    He said “You don’t have to be afraid, Jonathan”. With the most humble, nice and still voice I’ve ever heard. Yet, it was mighty, and it was echoing. It was like this, except for the feet part then (I didn’t see his feet because I was laying in my bed):

    (Revelation 1:15) His feet glowed like burnished (bright) bronze as it is refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.

    My mum had prayed that Jesus would tell me to not be afraid. Because I had been afraid so much in the nights, and had nightmares. My mum also saw Jesus when she was 7 years old, as the Good Shepherd. Seven is number for Spiritual Perfection.

  59. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Johathan

    >> Of course we can see Jesus. The bible says Jesus reveals himself

    Jesus DOES NOT reveal himself to us. This is what the bible really says about Jesus, and us ever seeing him again – We will only EVER see Him again at His 2nd Coming. He has made it CLEAR.

    Matt 24:23-27; “Jesus says “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. For FALSE MESSIAHS and FALSE PROPHETS will rise up and perform GREAT SIGNS AND WONDERS SO AS TO DECEIVE, IF POSSIBLE EVEN GOD’S CHOSEN ONES. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it!” 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

    >> I saw Jesus (the room was dark) with a robe that was white, shining in light blue. He had a light blue glowing around his face and body too. But not as bright as his eyes shined. He looked straight at me, his eyes radiated so much Love, grace, humility and compassion towards me. I couldn’t see his eyes, because of the light blue light in his eyes.

    How do you know that is what Jesus looks like? You have no idea do you! Well firstly we know by scripture that Jesus will not return until His 2nd coming, so what did reveal itself to you…
    2 Corinthians 11:14; “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

    Satan transforms himself to look like a ‘Jesus’ and appears to people on a daily basis because they do not know the WORD OF GOD.

  60. Maria says:

    I just started a fast today and as I was researching for christian books I came across your website. I am so thankful to God that he made me realize this book is no good. I just threw it out. It scared me and I had no desire to finish reading it. I should’ve known it was God telling me that I shouldn’t read it. I’m guessing that the books 90 minutes in heaven and 23 minutes in hell are fake as well. May God bless you!

  61. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Maria

    Yip they are fake too. Please do not read other peoples books, read the bible only. When you are fasting you are at a very vulnerable stage and your mind is open to demonic attack. Look at Jesus, he was in the desert and Satan came to Him and had a go. You are not Jesus, you are a weak individual struggling to listen to the Holy Spirit in your life. To be honest I would not fast if I was you, I would start obeying the Holy Spirit :) The more you obey Him and study the Bible the more you will hear Him.

  62. Chris says:

    Thanks for this wonderful information i have finished the book about a year ago and held onto it but i am certainly gonna get rid of it!!

    Then i want to ask is the book “the schack” also a lie?

  63. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Chris

    Yes, The Shack is bad news as well. Like very bad news. It’s New Age and blasphemous. Chuck it in the bin too if you have it.

  64. Leanne says:

    Hi first of all i want to say i have doubts about choos book. But she is right to say that not all beleivers will enter Heaven. The bible backs this up. Jesus said that not everyone who calls Him Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he who does the will of His Father who is in Heaven. Also says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. In Revelations Jesus will spew the luke warm chrstians out of His mouth. The Word also says that no gosipers, slanderers, liers, murders, audulters, fornicators, thieves etc will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that applies to whether your a christian or not. Jesus says also that the narrow gate only few enter, and the broad gate many enter. God says be Holy as I Am Holy. Also says that without Holiness no man will see the Lord. Yes i have had dreams and visions from Yeshua and a few from the enemy too as that was scary. Heaven exists, hell exists Jesus exists, angels exists. I also believe in speaking in tounges as that is biblical although i do not have that gift. Yes dreams and visions are real, but unless is lines up to the bible you have to question it. Yes the soon coming of Jesus could be anytime. Jesus said Watch. Unfortunatly there will be more people left behind then raptured because they chose to live evil lifes and not repent. There is a book i have read that is real. It is called 10 Amazing muslims touched by God. It is about ex jihard islam extreemists and other ex muslims who have encounted Jesus through Dreams and Visions, and these woulderful people have given their lives over to serve Jesus and some of them even have their own churches and ministrys. Jesus loves the muslims too and wants them saved. Now since they have become born again some of them said their familys wanted to kill them. But God protected them and preserved their lives so they can be a witness to others. The things i do not belive in her book are aborted babies that are in wearhouses in Heaven waiting for their mothers who are saved. These aborted babies i believe grow up in Heaven and are not babies for eternity. Another thing i do not believe is a place in Heaven where christians go if they do not not enter Heaven called the valley. Sounds like Pergatury to me. There is not middle ground, there is a Heaven and hell no middle ground. No mention in the bible about the valley for disobedient christians. When i first read the book i was scared. But now i know if i get my relatioship with Jesus right and back on track and read the bible, and keep repented up and continue to forgive others if they hurt me and love my neighbour as myself and love God with all my heart i am getting rapture ready. Another thing i found odd in the book is that Jesus has promised her that he will rapture her in the last day while she said that nobodys salvation is gurantee until they get there. What makes her so differnt that she will get raptured and the rest of us are not guranted. Sorry my spelling is horrible. Anyway i think you all understand what i am saying. God bles you all and i hope to see you in the clouds when Jesus comes back.

  65. Robbie says:

    Leanne

    “But she is right to say that not all believers will enter Heaven. The bible backs this up.”

    No Leanne, The Bible is right and Choo backs it up. It is the extra biblical mystic rubbish that she throws in that deceives people and that is satan’s oldest trick. Mixing truth with lies.
    On more than one account friends who read her books started to doubt their salvation.

  66. Paul Beamon says:

    First up I’d like to say how much I appreciate this post. I too bought the book and found it hard to swallow. I will be getting rid of my copy right away!

    One thing does concern me, however, is that you teach Jesus will “never appear” to anyone until His second coming, based on Matt 24:23-27;

    If He was never to reveal Himself to anyone after His resurrection then why do we have scripture recording Him doing that very thing?

    Take, for example, Luke 24:13-53, here we have Jesus appearing to 2 disciples on the road while they walked and conversed about what happened to Him (His crucifixion ect), and then a little while later he appeared to the 11 disciples and ate with them and then He lead them out to where He ascended into heaven.

    Also there is the account of the apostle Paul when He encountered Jesus and had his whole life turned around, Acts 9:3-6. We also have Ananias’s encounter with Jesus, Acts 9:10-16.

    And of course we have the record in Revelation chapter 1 where the apostle John has an encounter with the risen Christ, and he even goes onto describe how Jesus appeared!

    My point here is not to be argumentative, but to say that we must not completely rule out divine encounters with Jesus, doing so would be ignoring scripture.

    No doubt many encounters are false but that does not rule out the fact that Jesus has, on some limited occasions, appeared to people post resurrection.

    It would seem that looking for such encounters is where Christians get tripped up, and I’m sure our old enemy will be more than happy to oblige anyone desiring this type of encounter instead of finding Jesus in scripture.

    That being said I’d like to thank you for putting up this post as it will help many people.

    Paul

  67. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Paul

    There is nothing confusing in what I said. Jesus said He would not appear again until His second coming and He has not appeared again after He ascended into heaven AND the BIBLE (that perfect thing we all needed) had been written.

  68. Jake says:

    [delete – insults not welcome]

  69. Martin Horan says:

    Thanks yet again, Debs for another one of you contributions. Excellent.
    It’s very depressing to find people falling for this occultism masquerading as Christianity.
    My wife and I have a couple of aquaintances who are following an ex-Worldwide Church of God member called Malcolm Heap. Heap is running a thing called Midnight Ministries. These folk believe this former Worldwider is going to raise Princess Diana and fifty other people from the dead fairly soon; either just before or during the Great Tribulation.
    The people in this small Midnight Ministries cult do not believe in the Rapture but rather that all Christians are to go through the Tribulation. Never mind that contadicts the PROMISE that we are not appointed to wrath and that the End Times Church will be spared from the trouble which will come on the whole earth (except of course for the apostate ecumenical Laodiceans), these followers of Heap are convinced this mass resurrection is going to take place.
    You see, they claim that God will use this mass resurrection to verify Heap’s ministry.
    One can only wonder what they think then of Jesus’ statement in Luke 16:31. He Himself stated that someone returning from the dead wouldn’t prove anything if they did not accept the Scriptures.
    Anyone who truly knows the Scriptures knows that Jesus raised Lazarus and many who knew of it then wanted to kill Lazarus and Jesus too!
    I don’t know about anyone else, but if I was with the Lord and this Heap character did have the power to raise me from the dead–though it goes without saying that he does not!–I would be furious being taken from the Lord to thrown into the Great Tribulation. I would have plenty to say to him and none of it would be nice.
    We do know why people preach such trash. It’s because the Bible tells us that they are wolves in sheep’s clothing and want to make merchandise of the flock [2 Pet 2:3]. But how is it that they get people who can be so gullible to follow them? You’d think people would realize that these charlatans are of the devil and, besides that, their followers are putting mere mem above God’s Word. They are making gods of them which makes idolators out of themselves.
    It’s really tragic. But the Scriptures warn us of such things. And I guess those people who claim to be Christians just don’t believe God’s Word. It is virtually impossible to reason with disciples of cult leaders. I know from experience.

  70. Nunu says:

    Hi
    Thank you for an excellent post, it has added so much to my discernment about people saying they had visions of Jesus/heaven.

    I’d just like to ask how one would actually go about testing a spiritual experience such as described by Choo thomas. (I have not had any such experience, thank God).

    The Bible says “(1 John 4:2-3 KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

    It just seems to me from these personal accounts of people going to heaven/seeing Jesus; that nobody ever just asks these spiritual beings to confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Wouldn’t this clear it up immediately?

  71. Dear Nunu

    You Test the Spirits according to 1 John 4 this way. When you come across odd teachings you go to the Bible to see what God says on the matter. For instance, we know from scripture that Paul was ‘taken up’ to heaven, but he was given strict instructions to NEVER EVER say what he saw or heard. This is the exact opposite of Choo Thomas, her ‘Jesus’ said tell everyone what you saw and heard. God says don’t tell anyone, Satan says tell everyone what I’ve showed you.
    We also need to think logically when we read people’s books. For instance Choo’s Jesus tells us that Choo is his most special daughter and in order to be as special as her we need to follow her book as though it’s part and parcel of the Word of God itself. RED FLAG! Any teaching/book that is NOT part of the bible as it stands is NOT the Word of God.
    Apostolic and Prophetic adherents like Choo Thomas love to tells us that God told them as they blurt out NEW words and prophecies from their god.

      You said: “The Bible says “(1 John 4:2-3 KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

      It just seems to me from these personal accounts of people going to heaven/seeing Jesus; that nobody ever just asks these spiritual beings to confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Wouldn’t this clear it up immediately?”

    I would think so. The big problem is when your mind is overtaken by a vision or dream your mind is being directed by Satan and it’s difficult to think and reason. I’ve noticed from books where people have dreams or visions that they were pushing God to have dreams or visions from Him thinking if you have dreams and vision its a sign that you are truly a child of God. And this is where Satan jumps in. Satan says because of your disobedience to God I will give you what you want.

    I’ve had people comment here on this site years ago that they ‘tested the spirits’ by asking a preacher (who was clearly false based on what he tough etc) if he believed ‘that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God’ and the preacher of course would say “yes”. And that was their litmus test, and no matter how I tried to convince them otherwise they would not hear it.

  72. Nunu says:

    Thank you Deborah.
    I have a long way to go in being able to assess teachings with adequate discernment. I’m grateful for your site as it helps a lot!

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Dear Nunu

    You Test the Spirits according to 1 John 4 this way. When you come across odd teachings you go to the Bible to see what God says on the matter. For instance, we know from scripture that Paul was ‘taken up’ to heaven, but he was given strict instructions to NEVER EVER say what he saw or heard. This is the exact opposite of Choo Thomas, her ‘Jesus’ said tell everyone what you saw and heard. God says don’t tell anyone, Satan says tell everyone what I’ve showed you.
    We also need to think logically when we read people’s books. For instance Choo’s Jesus tells us that Choo is his most special daughter and in order to be as special as her we need to follow her book as though it’s part and parcel of the Word of God itself. RED FLAG! Any teaching/book that is NOT part of the bible as it stands is NOT the Word of God.
    Apostolic and Prophetic adherents like Choo Thomas love to tells us that God told them as they blurt out NEW words and prophecies from their god.

    You said: “The Bible says “(1 John 4:2-3 KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
    It just seems to me from these personal accounts of people going to heaven/seeing Jesus; that nobody ever just asks these spiritual beings to confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Wouldn’t this clear it up immediately?”

    I would think so. The big problem is when your mind is overtaken by a vision or dream your mind is being directed by Satan and it’s difficult to think and reason. I’ve noticed from books where people have dreams or visions that they were pushing God to have dreams or visions from Him thinking if you have dreams and vision its a sign that you are truly a child of God. And this is where Satan jumps in. Satan says because of your disobedience to God I will give you what you want.

    I’ve had people comment here on this site years ago that they ‘tested the spirits’ by asking a preacher (who was clearly false based on what he tough etc) if he believed ‘that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God’ and the preacher of course would say “yes”. And that was their litmus test, and no matter how I tried to convince them otherwise they would not hear it.

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Terms and Conditions for Submission of Comments

Terms and Conditions:terms and conditions

Because this world is becoming more evil by the minute and Discerning the World is coming under attack more often from people with some very nasty dispositions, we now have ‘Terms and Conditions for Submission of Comments’ which you need to agree too before you can comment – this is to protect us and you when you comment on this website.  If you are not here to harm Discerning the World and it’s authors, please by all means comment, however if you are here to cause harm in any way, please don’t comment.

The following conditions does not mean that the authors of Discerning The World permit only opinions that are in agreement with us. This also does not mean that we fear dissenting opinions or ideas that are contrary to the beliefs that we hold (and/or that of the revealed Scriptures of the Holy Bible).

The following describes the Terms and Conditions applicable to your use of the “Comments” submission service at the Discerning the World website.

BY CLICKING THE “POST COMMENT” BUTTON FOR YOUR COMMENT, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND ABIDE BY ALL OF THE RULES AND POLICIES SET FORTH HEREIN. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT SUBMIT YOUR COMMENT TO DISCERNING THE WORLD WEB SITE.

  1. Discerning the World owns and operates the DiscerningtheWorld.com site (the “Site”). Your use of the features on the Site allowing for submission of a “Comment” is subject to the following terms and conditions (the “Terms”). Discerning the World may modify these Terms at any time without notice to you by posting revised Terms on the Site. Your submission of a “Comment” to the Site following the modification of these Terms shall constitute your binding acceptance of and agreement to be bound by those modified Terms.
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  3. Discerning the World has the right, but not the obligation, to take any of the following actions, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, at any time, and for any reason or no reason, without providing any prior notice:
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