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Isa al Masih – The Muslim’s ‘Jesus Christ’

7DTW AuthorIcon75 Isa al Masih   The Muslims Jesus Christ

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Isa al Masih

So it’s happening.  Muslims are having dreams and visions of something that looks like Jesus.  Imagine that.  If it was not for the Bible we would be none the wiser as to what was going on.  Fortunately for those who do take the Word of God extremely seriously you will understand that we are in the end times, where each of the major world’s religions expects their Messiah/Christ to return.

* Buddhists:  Maitreya is the name for the 5th Buddha
* Hindus:   Krishna
* Islam:  Isa al Masih (Jesus Christ),  Isa ibn Miryam (Jesus son of Mary),  Al Masih Isa Ibn Allah (Jesus Christ son of Allah)
* Roman Catholics await their Eucharist Christ (Jesus son of Goddess Mary),
* Jews await their Messiah (not realising that it’s Jesus Christ the Son of God).  But the time is coming if not here already that Jews are being born again and accepting Jesus Christ the Son of God as their Saviour.  Unfortunately many are also accepting the lies of the false Christ.

This false Christ that appears in all religions through out the ages has many names:  Esa, Essa, Iesous, Jesus, Yashua, Iswara, Tammuz, Adonis, Horus, Deoius, Jupiter, Cain, Cupid, Mithra, Pepi, Bacchus,  Hurcules,  Dionysus,  Yi,  Balder,  Quetzalcoatl, etc.

* Born again Christians await Jesus Christ the Son of God as mentioned in the Bible and the Bible only.

Morph all these ‘Christs’ together (excluding the genuine Jesus Christ that is ONLY FOUND IN THE BIBLE) you get the Cosmic Christ or just The Christ (Satan) who’s main calling card is Peace, Love and Unity.  Also known as the Man of Lawlessness in the Bible.  The one who comes to deceive the entire world under the disguise of peace and safety when in fact he has every intention of destroying mankind.

How do you tell the difference between Isa al Masih and Jesus Christ the Son of God?

The REAL Jesus Christ the Son of God CAN ONLY BE FOUND within the pages of the Bible.

John 14:6;    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me

Acts 4:12;    “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

What this actually means, believe it or not,  is that no other impostor calling himself Jesus Christ mentioned in any other book BUT the Word of God/Bible can save you.

I was shocked to find that so called Christians are using the “Isa al Masih” or “Jesus Christ” mentioned in the Koran to help minister to Muslims that Jesus Christ does exist.  It sounds like a brilliant idea, “I mean gosh Jesus Christ and Mary are mentioned in the Koran, we can use that to witness to Muslims”.  No!  You can’t!  This is a fake Christ just like every single one I have mentioned above in that long list.  You can’t use a satanic ‘Christ’ and try convert people to the Jesus Christ of the Bible.  And this Christ will show you every sign and wonder you need to convince you that you are producing fruit.   Fruit from a thorn tree.

If a Muslim accepts Jesus Christ as his Saviour and is born again, he/she will no longer be a Muslim they will be a born again Christian.  Being a Muslim is not a culture, it’s a religion.  Just like being a Christian is not a culture either.

What is the link between all these religions?  Is it Jesus Christ?  No!  It’s the Blessed Virgin Mary – The Queen of Heaven.  The Koran mentions Mary no less than 36 times.   No other woman is mentioned in the Koran.  Muslims visit the Shrine of Fatima.  Fatima was the name of the daughter of Mohammed, the prophet of Islam.  And Fatima is the name of the village (located in Portugal) that Mary ‘appeared’ in 1917 to 3 children.  In fact visions of Mary within Islamic countries are not uncommon, in fact they are very common.

She (Mary) appeared daily for over a month in April of 1968 in a small Church in Elzaytoun district of Cairo in Egypt and was witnessed by thousands of Egyptians, both Catholics and Muslims and was even broadcast on International TV.

In other parts of Africa and Asia:

“When a statue of Our Lady of Fatima is carried through Muslim areas of Africa and India, hundreds of thousands of Muslims come. In two days half a million Muslims came to give their respects to this statue in Bombay, India.”    [Dave Hunt, A Woman Rides the Beast, p. 458.]

“A statue of Mary, ‘Queen of Africa,’ contains both a cross and a Moslem crescent. This indicates the veneration that Muslims have for Mary.”      [Judith A. Bauer (editor), The Essential Mary Handbook, p. 244.]

Some verses from the Koran mentioning Mary and or Jesus:

Koran 3:45     “When the Heavenly Hosts said, ‘Oh Mary! Verily, God gives you the good tidings by way of a Word from Him (Jesus Christ the word of God proceeding from him); his name shall be Al Masih Isa “Saviour” son of Mary (the Messiah Jesus), glorified in this world and at the end and he is of those who is nearest to God.”

Koran 4:171      “…verily Al Masih ‘the Messiah’ Jesus ‘Savior’, son of  Mary is a messenger of God and God’s own words, which he conveys to Mary and Jesus is also a Ruwh ‘soul, spirit’ from God.”

Koran 3:46     “He will speak to the people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous.”

Koran 5:110     Then will Allah say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! … and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.’

——————–

Below is information found on the internet regarding the ‘Jesus’ found in the Koran and experiences Muslims are having with this ‘man in white‘:

Isa al Masih

Who is he?  What does he teach?  What about his life, death, and resurrection?

Hundreds of years before the birth of Isa al Masih (Jesus Christ), many prophecies are recorded in the Tawrat and Zabur (Old Testament) that forecast the coming of a Savior for all mankind. A panel of scientists with the American Scientific Affiliation goes on record as saying that the chances that one man could fulfill just 8 of the nearly 300 predictions pointing to the Messiah is one in 100,000,000,000,000,000. Truly it can be no other then Jesus of Nazareth.  [Read More ]

At the appointed time in God’s plan, a young Jewish woman became pregnant. Yet this was no ordinary pregnancy, for this woman, Mary (Maryam), had had no sexual relations (though was engaged to Joseph). [ Read More ] The Bible and the Qur’an clearly teach the virgin birth of Jesus, so we know that Jesus must have been a truly special man with a God-ordained plan.

What was that plan? It was to bring peace to all mankind of every nation. [ Read More ]

Some skeptics argue that Jesus never existed historically. Yet historians Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, the Talmud, and Lucian all record his existence. Some believe he did not die on the cross, or that he was not raised again from the dead. But many eyewitnesses, some of whom were hostile to Christ, say that it is true. [ Read More ]

In fact, even today many Muslims from throughout the world are reporting that they have been visited in a dream or a vision by Isa al Masih, often coming as a man in white. In such dreams and visions, he tells of his resurrection and the fact that he is the only way to salvation. [ Read More ]

What did Prophet Isa teach about the Kingdom of Peace?

“Hazrat Isa al Masih (Jesus) is recognized by people of all religions as one who has promoted peace with his words and deeds and who has brought much peace to the world.”  1

The Kingdom of God

When Hazrat Isa lived on this earth, he came teaching about the Kingdom–the Kingdom of God. This kingdom does not divide along political, ethnic, sectarian or even humanly drawn religious lines. It is the Kingdom of God. You can’t look around and say with total accuracy that this person is in the kingdom and this person is not. Therefore we cannot say that the West is in God’s kingdom and the East is not; nor can we say that the East is in God’s kingdom and the West is not. Yes, there are indications about who is in the kingdom, but the kingdom of God is a kingdom whose total membership is only known to God. Each member of that kingdom is ultimately answerable to God. As a result many leaders today have been fearful of him.  1

How To Get In and How It Brings Peace

“First, entrance into God’s kingdom brings personal peace for the individual. Hazrat Isa taught that the way one gets into the kingdom is by admitting from his or her heart and lips that he or she don’t deserve entrance into the kingdom and by believing and following the way God has given to get entrance into his kingdom.

The reason why Hazrat Isa said we don’t deserve entrance into the kingdom is because of the fact that every human falls short of God’s standard of perfection and sinlessness.”

“Second, peace is shown by the individual members of the kingdom toward others around them.”  1

Peace and True Power

Hazrat Isa did this from a personal position devoid of political or economic power or the possibility of selfish human influence. He also died for the cause of peace.  Because he refused to cause harm to others or encourage his followers to harm others, he willingly gave up his life even when accused unjustly. 1

PEACE AND OUR WORLD

Judging vs. Not Judging

In light of the present circumstances in our world today, the teachings of Hazrat Isa need to be seriously considered. He taught that each person must deal with his own faults before he tries to sort out the faults of others.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me remove the speck out of your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.” (Injil, Book of Matthew 7:1-5)   [1]

Compassion vs. Aggression

Hazrat Isa words are not easy words to follow, but they are very important in maintaining peace in our world. For those who feel aggression toward others, Hazrat Isa’s words are applicable for them. For those who retaliate out of anger, Hazrat Isa’s words apply equally to them. God says through the Apostle Paul,

“Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, ‘Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,’ says the Lord. ‘Therefore if your enemy hungers, feed him; if he thirsts, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” (Injil, Book of Romans 1:17-25)  [1]

Power vs. God’s Favour

The lack of peace in this world is many times a result of the fact that as human beings we have a wrong view of power and God’s favour. When Hazrat Isa lived on this earth, he had compassion on the people that were straying from God’s path.

“But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion for them, because they were weary and scattered, like sheep having no shepherd.” (Injil, Book of Matthew 9:36)  [1]

Honour vs. Shame

We see that he had the right sense of power and assurance of God’s favour because he maintained that compassion to his (not their) own death and God rewarded him greatly.

“who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Injil, Book of Hebrews 12:2)   [1]

Good vs. Evil

The gospel of Hazrat Isa is the gospel of peace because it strikes at the root of pride, jealousy, envy and greed, which are named in the Holy Bible as some of the worst sins.

“But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.” (Injil, Book of 1 Timothy 6:9-11)   [1]

These are the sins that are listed right alongside sexual immorality.

“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Injil, Book of Galatians 5:19-21)   [1]

Pride vs. Humility

God himself, through the Hazrat Musa (Moses), warned his followers in the following admonition about the dangers of abhorring the evil that others do while smugly thinking that everything is right in their own lives. In the following passage God warns the man who despises idolatry and is among those who have gained victory over the idolaters to realize this, if his individual heart is not right with God he too will come under the anger and curse of God.

(for you know that we dwelt in the land of Egypt and that we came through the nations which you passed by, and you saw their abominations and their idols which were among them wood and stone and silver and gold); so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, `I shall have peace, even though I walk in the imagination of my heart’ as though the drunkard could be included with the sober. The Lord would not spare him; for then the anger of the Lord and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the Lord would blot out his name from under heaven. (Tawrat, Book of Deuteronomy 29:16-20)  [1]

DREAMS AND VISIONS RECORDED

God is Great! Just as He did in the past, God is showing His mercy and guidance to Muslims throughout the world today! Read the following story portions from Muslims worldwide who have reported such dreams and now follow Isa al Masih as their Savior:

“…two angels dressed in white robes stood on top of the mountain. Jesus was standing between the angels. He left the angels and came to where I stood watching. As he approached me, I knelt down and he laid his hands on my head…” [read more]

“…['D.'] dreamt he was sitting with his arms tied to a chair. Then he saw a man he recognized as Jesus coming. Jesus touched the ropes and they fell from his arms…” [read more]

“…In the dream, Jesus told me to come to Him and read the Bible and He would show me the way, truth and the life…” [read more]

“…I was standing in a cross shape with a low wall around it. In my right hand, I had a big stack of white unwritten papers. I was standing at the cross beam, and I was looking to a small group of people who were standing at the top. They all wore long white clothing, but one of them was different. He was standing at the right side, and with his left hand he was leading the people through a door in the wall. Beyond the door was light, and I could not see what was in there. One moment I was standing in the dream, and the next moment I was seeing the cross from above…” [read more]

“…I saw some Christians standing in line to get into Heaven. I tried to get into this line also, but a very tall being blocked my path and I started to cry because the side I was on was really horrible but the side they were on was a beautiful place, so beautiful, so blue…” [read more]

“…I went back to bed after a short prayer and saw a second dream. This time it was Jesus as I saw him in the Jesus film years ago and I had trashed his video. He was hanging on the cross, the nails were in his hands and feet, yet he was smiling at me and talking to me. Though he was dying he seemed so beautiful. The cross was huge and I seemed like a little boy. My neck was falling back trying to see the whole face of Jesus and suddenly a huge big circle of light came from above the cross and down upon me…” [read more]

“…I was swimming. It was very dark, without any stars in the sky. After swimming for a while, I stopped and looked up at the sky. Suddenly, I saw a star shining. I closed my eyes and made a wish. I said, ‘Morning Star, teach me the secret of life’…I kept having this dream for years almost every other month and this pattern continued until a few months after my conversion, when I read Rev. 22:16, which says, ‘I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star’…” [read more]

Filipino Muslims. Stories from the Zamboanga and Basilan regions of the Southern Philippines are starting to come in. Yakan and Tausug Muslims are reporting having dreams of Isa during and after Ramadan.

This worker noted one common practice among faithful Muslims who dreamed about Jesus. He recounted that during Ramadan, these Muslims are required to pray five times a day to Allah but they have the options to pray six to seven times a day. In their sixth and seventh prayer, these Muslims have been asking God to reveal Himself in any form of vision and let truth reign in their lives  [read more]

A Vision. The story of one Malay’s trip to Mecca for the hajj and the strange incidents that occurred there.

“The truth is,” said the driver, turning to look straight at his passenger, “Allah wants to know you personally, as a friend, not just at a distance through rituals. Islam cant give you that kind of relationship.”   [read more]

The Battle. The story of one Turkish man’s spiritual journey while studying in the Caucasus.

“Just then he saw a ball of light rise on his left. Slowly it took shape into a figure so bright that Simba could not keep his eyes on Him, although he longed to. The Man seemed to be dressed in a white robe, and Simba heard a voice like a song, full of mercy, call out, “I’m here.”  [read more]

————————————————
Recources:
[1] http://isaalmasih.net/isa/peace.html
1.  This material is a portion of an article originally published in Mission Frontiers magazine, March 2001. www.missionfrontiers.org. Reprinted with permission.
2.  Rick Love, Muslims, Magic and the Kingdom of God (Pasadena, William Carey Library, 2000), 156
3.  The Muslim Jesus: Sayings and Stories in Islamic Literature by Tarif Khalidi, Harvard University Press, 2001. Jamal al-Din Wasil (d. 697/1298), Mufarrij al-Kurub, 1:248. Cf. al-Abshihi, al-Mustatraf, 2:83 (variant).
Images used in collage:
http://st-takla.org/Gallery/Gallery-index.html
http://spiritualmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/muslim-jesus-islam.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_t2Ry7I5DNuQ/RsgNP_2Hn2I/AAAAAAAAAtY/WZVUUN9t2tA/s400/JesusIslam2.jpg
http://www.islamfrominside.com/images/jesusfresco.jpg
http://hubpages.com/u/1020967_f496.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/12_02/vietnamjesus_468x288.jpg
http://robtshepherd.tripod.com/isa-al-masih.jpg http://isaalmasih.net/isa/dove.jpg
http://reocities.com/MadisonAvenue/agency/6495/mary52.jpg
http://californiaclockcompany.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/mary-9.JPG
  
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51 comments to Isa al Masih – The Muslim’s ‘Jesus Christ’

  • Theresa

    “So it’s happening. Muslims are having dreams and visions of something that looks like Jesus. Imagine that. If it was not for the Bible we would be none the wiser as to what was going on. Fortunately for those who do take the Word of God extremely seriously you will understand that we are in the end times, where each of the major world’s religions expects their Messiah/Christ to return.” your opening topic refers..

    How dare you even take on a topic that you know nothing about other than what you have copied and pasted from google and that you say you research! I am a born again Christ professing child of God, married to a muslim for the past 20yrs and let me just tell you that it your portrayal of Jesus that makes muslims want nothing to do with Jesus! You scoff at the fact that Jesus is appearing to them in dreams and visions! You stupid stiff necked uncircumsiced Phillistine!!!! do you have any idea how many Muslims have converted to christianity simply because they have met with Jesus in a dream or a vision and thereby coming to understand that He is who He says He is! I work with and underground church of approx 4000 converted muslims in the city I live in and you know they did not get converted by watching christians because we do such a shocking job of showing the love of Jesus, but because Jesus died for them on the cross as well, as much as what that might shock you, His heart is for them to be saved. Most of these converted muslims that we work with have come to believe because of a personal encounter with Jesus! Get off your back side and googling for information and then copying and pasting as your revelation from God, and get out there and speak to people and hear testimonies of what God is doing in the lives of people and stop putting God in a box expecting Him to operate the way you would! YOU GRIEVE HIS HOLY SPIRIT!!!

  • Amanda

    Theresa

    Are your children raised Muslim? If you have any daughters, did you subject them to FGM? How many wifes does your husband have? Does he beat you as instructed by the Quran? We have freedom of religion in South Africa. Why is that church underground? Is your husband aware of what you are doing and, if so, is he not obliged under Sharia law to report it? I fear for those Christians.

  • Elmarie A

    Theresa

    do you have any idea how many Muslims have converted to Christianity simply because they have met with Jesus in a dream or a vision and thereby coming to understand that He is who He says He is

    Yikes is that simply how Muslims are converted !!!

    Is that what the Bible says how Muslims are converted by VISIONS AND DREAMS!!

    Now that is a new one for you!!! noooooo Theresa your kidding me.

    That is not SALVATION !!!

    That is not converting to Jesus Christ of the Bible. That is not SALVATION it might be a mystical experience but certainly not how salvation is attained.

    What happened to believe and repentance?

    What happened to the justification an sanctification as the only way to salvation by grace as accepted by christians for the last 2000 years?

    When did God change His plan and why is your cult the only one that knows about it?

    For the last 2000 years Salvation has required a decision for Christ and when one is reborn or saved, the fruits of the Spirit will become evident in the life of the believer. Who changed this?? None of this has ever taken place in a dream. millions of FALSE conversions Yes. As true salvation requires a conscience and sober decision which cannot be made in a dream and a trance or a mystical vision. Christianity is no Hinduism.

    what do you measure these so called conversions against?

  • Theresa

    Oh your are so very stupid aren’t you! You dare to assume that you can even put God in a box and tell Him how to bring about His salvation unto people! What do I measure these so called convesions against? What a stupid question if you had readmy whole comment. I measure it against the fact that these converts are now proffessing Jesus Christ as the SOn of God who died on the cros and was raised on the 3rd day! How many converts have you actually met?

    Oh and to answer you first question, my husband has one wife, me, I have one child who is raised as a christian and is sold out to Jesus. Once again you have made assumptions about something you have no actual facts about. It migt come as a shock to you to know that not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every muslim has a million wives and not every muslim women is subjected FGM to and that Jesus actually died for them as well.Yes we do have freedom of religion is so SA, but your sarcastic comment is not only immature but insensitive.

  • Amanda

    Theresa

    my husband has one wife

    From the Koran

    [4.3] And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.

    [4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    Theresa:

    I have one child who is raised as a christian

    From Islam Online:

    Therefore, even if a Muslim man is married to non-Muslim woman, he must raise his children as Muslims, and he should be sure to stipulate this before marriage.

    Theresa:

    It migt come as a shock to you to know that not every Muslim is a terrorist

    From Islam 101:

    All Muslims Must Make Jihad

    Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim and cannot be ignored nor evaded. Allah has ascribed great importance to jihad and has made the reward of the martyrs and the fighters in His way a splendid one. Only those who have acted similarly and who have modeled themselves upon the martyrs in their performance of jihad can join them in this reward. Furthermore, Allah has specifically honoured the Mujahideen {those who wage jihad} with certain exceptional qualities, both spiritual and practical, to benefit them in this world and the next. Their pure blood is a symbol of victory in this world and the mark of success and felicity in the world to come.

    Those who can only find excuses, however, have been warned of extremely dreadful punishments and Allah has described them with the most unfortunate of names. He has reprimanded them for their cowardice and lack of spirit, and castigated them for their weakness and truancy. In this world, they will be surrounded by dishonour and in the next they will be surrounded by the fire from which they shall not escape though they may possess much wealth. The weaknesses of abstention and evasion of jihad are regarded by Allah as one of the major sins, and one of the seven sins that guarantee failure.

    Islam is concerned with the question of jihad and the drafting and the mobilisation of the entire Umma {the global Muslim community} into one body to defend the right cause with all its strength than any other ancient or modern system of living, whether religious or civil. The verses of the Qur’an and the Sunnah of Muhammad (PBUH {Peace Be Unto Him}) are overflowing with all these noble ideals and they summon people in general (with the most eloquent expression and the clearest exposition) to jihad, to warfare, to the armed forces, and all means of land and sea fighting.

    Theresa:

    and not every muslim women is subjected FGM

    From Geller: American Academy of Pediatrics and the New York Times sanction FGM

    Despite the taqiya, Islam sanctions female genital mutilation, and sometimes even encourages it. Muhammad Al-Mussayar, an Islamic scholar at Al-Azhar University, the most prestigious and influential institution in the Islamic world, said that Islam doesn’t forbid female genital mutlation: “All the jurisprudents, since the advent of Islam and for 14 centuries or more, are in consensus that female circumcision is permitted by Islam. But they were divided with regard to its status in shari’a. Some said that female circumcision is required by shari’a, just like male circumcision. Some said this is the mainstream practice, while others said it is a noble act. But throughout the history of Islam, nobody has ever said that performing female circumcision is a crime. There has been a religious ruling on this for 14 centuries.”

    Theresa:

    Yes we do have freedom of religion is so SA, but your sarcastic comment is not only immature but insensitive.

    From SIOA: Victory for Free Speech — Religious Liberty Bus Ads Restored to Miami Buses:

    Malik’s statement is explicitly contradicted by the command of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam and supreme example of conduct for the Muslim: “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Bukhari 9.84.57) Contrary to Malik’s claim, all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence teach that a sane adult male who leaves Islam must be killed. As pointed out above, this is not some theoretical Sharia dictate; this is extant law in every Muslim country that follows Islamic law.

    Thus, the internationally renowned Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi of Al-Jazeera has said that “Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished…The majority of them…agree that apostates must be executed.”

  • Elmarie A

    Theresa

    I am a born again Christ professing child of God, married to a muslim for the past 20yrs

    Follower of the Islamic religion. Muslim (sometimes rendered Moslem) is someone who follows the religion of Islam.
    http://www.answers.com/topic/muslim#Dictionary_d

    An adherent of the faith of Islam. As a religious practitioner, Muslims can be any race or ethnicity and the word should not be confused with Arab. A Muslim believes in Allah and in his final prophet Mohammed.
    http://www.thezenofsouthpark.com/Glossary_of_Terms

    “Is it right for a Christian to date or marry a non-Christian?”

    Answer: For a Christian, dating a non-Christian is unwise, and marrying one is not an option. Second Corinthians 6:14 (KJV) tells us not to be “unequally yoked” with an unbeliever. The imagery is of two incompatible oxen sharing the same yoke. Instead of working together to pull the load, they would be working against each other. While this passage does not specifically mention marriage, it definitely has implications for marriage. The passage goes on to say that there is no harmony between Christ and Belial (Satan). There can be no spiritual harmony in a marriage between a Christian and a non-Christian. Paul goes on to remind believers that they are the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit, who inhabits their hearts at salvation (2 Corinthians 6:15-17). Because of that, they are to be separate from the world—in the world, but not of the world—and nowhere is that more important than in life’s most intimate relationship—marriage.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/date-marry-unbeliever.html

  • Amanda

    Theresa

    I work with and underground church of approx 4000 converted muslims in the city

    Do you scoff at their safety concerns too?

    You also make it very clear that you don’t do ‘meetings’ and I have also noticed that every time some one has called your bluff and invited you to the very place you condemn as false, you come up with the same lame excuse! If you are led by the Holy Spirit, then why are you afraid of confronting these so called false spirits?

  • Greg

    Hi All, And especially Theresa.

    Recently I read a book by a woman Called Gulshan Esther. In it she says that Jesus appeared to her and cured her of paralysis of which she suffered for 14 or sixteen years or something like that. I read the book at a friends six months ago so some details are sketchy. Anyway, she was ostracized from her family, her inheritance taken away from her, her father was very rich and she was thrown out of the house when she preached Jesus to them.

    Also her brothers were going to shoot her in the basement of the house but changed their minds at the last minute. Thing is we have instances of people getting visitations from angels such as Cornelius in acts to point them to the way to Jesus and Jesus himself appeared to Paul as we know. So why couldn’t Jesus appear too someone in a dream. I h noticed in some of the accounts above that the Muslim getting the dream was told “I am the Jesus of the bible”. This would seem to be in accord with a true revelation. I have heard of muslims getting dreams from Jesus and they seek out a Christian who confirms their dreams from the scriptures and they come to faith. I am sure they are told of repentance and belief.

    The other thing is that It is next to impossible is it not to preach in Muslim countries openly as you will surely die or suffer perhaps tremendously and maybe this is what is needed to open the doors? But who will go? Me? Only if the Lord sends me in his strength, that’s for sure. I feel there is perhaps crossed lines in this debate with Theresa. No one has asked the question of did she marry a Muslim prior to her conversion which is a valid situation? Is her husband a nominal Muslim and doesn’t care what the children are brought up as?

    Last point. As far as Jesus saying to Muslims I am the Jesus you seek when they read of him in the Koran, this is exactly what happened to Gulshan Esther. I mean! it’s not exactly like Muslims have copies of the King James or N.I.V lying around? Just trying to tease it out guys, thats all.

    Greg.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Theresa

    said….. “Oh your are so very stupid aren’t you!……”

    Woaahhhh that is truly a prize winning nasty comment. Well done Theresa. I’ve read some really nasty words but that by dear, well that is just splendid. Thanks for showing us what you are really like. But there is hope for you and He is called Jesus Christ the Son of God.

    [EDITED: I have just been informed that there was a even worse insult made by you... Disgusting]

    Now, I want you to go to this article and tell us all about the people you have raised from the dead or seen raised from the dead. :) http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/06/27/have-you-or-a-loved-one-been-raised-from-the-dead/#comment-13097

  • Amanda

    My personal favorite:

    You stupid stiff necked uncircumsiced Phillistine!!!!

    Love
    Theresa

    Okay, I made the last bit up.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    Oh my word….. she said that? My goodness she did too. I can now see why you told me not to read the comments. I can also see why Jesus will be rapturing the body of Christ before Theresa’s anti-Christ appears because there is no ways born again Christians will survive under such horrendous hate.

    she said…..”I am a born again Christ professing child of God, married to a muslim for the past 20yrs and let me just tell you that it your portrayal of Jesus that makes muslims want nothing to do with Jesus! You scoff at the fact that Jesus is appearing to them in dreams and visions! You stupid stiff necked uncircumsiced Phillistine!!!!”

  • Michael

    I have read all your comments and arguments between Theresa and others and do not sense that this approach is right and certainly not the tone…I believe respect and kindness is needed here on both sides…stop using the scriptures as a weapon…that is also out of context.
    Having said that I am against the Benni Hinn’s,Joyce Meyers and Joel Osteens form of Christianity…the word of faith doctrine…the emhasis on healings,signs and wonders emphasis etc and dreams and visions emphasis as this tends to go off the subject of God’s real message…the message of the cross and redemption.
    I also believe that Deb’s is doing a wonderful job in exposing false doctrines, prophets and teachers.
    But in some issues regarding Theresa I find it distasteful that no understanding is shown to her personal situation.Her situation is very unique in that she probably married a Moslem man before she got converted and she works in Moslem country where Christianity is severity opposed and persecuted even to the state of fearing for ones own life…especially for a Moslem who has turned his back on Islam and become a Christian. I also believe that in these circumstances that are so unusually extreme and unique God shows His mercy and grace…and does the unusual…Jesus could appear to her husband.
    Having said that… do not get me wrong …I do not believe this to be the way in the mainstream sense and the danger is when emphasis is put on these visions…ie like Benni Hinn’s bulldust and deception and false prophecies etc.

    God does break-away from the mainstream when He decides this …the danger of over emphasis however diverts and leads us going down the wrong path. We are to adher diligently to the Word of God diligently and not seek after signs and wonders but should they occur in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances we are to be careful not to allow this to become a diversion from the message of the Saviour dying on the cross to save fallen humanity from this state and offer eternal life when we except the atonement of Christ dying in our place in a personal capacity.
    She is right …you cannot put God in a box…the Holy Spirit sometimes moves in ways we cannot understand BUT it is always in line with the scriptures. God did use dreams and visions and still does just as He still heals but not in the way that man demands and misquotes scripture …certainly NOT at mans demand. Dreams and visions are used by mystics and false prophets and are things that attract sinful man and should be prayerfully discerned and not used to tickle man’s ears and wims.

  • Amanda

    Michael

    stop using the scriptures as a weapon…that is also out of context

    Please point out our misuse of Scripture:

    For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

    In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
    (Eph 6:16-17)

    All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17)

    Michael:

    Her situation is very unique in that she probably married a Moslem man before she got converted and she works in Moslem country where Christianity is severity opposed and persecuted even to the state of fearing for ones own life…especially for a Moslem who has turned his back on Islam and become a Christian.

    Theresa works in South Africa where we do have freedom of religion. She accused us of being ignorant and tried to spread her taqiyya here:

    my husband has one wife [He is allowed four.]
    I have one child who is raised as a christian [Should be raised Muslim}
    It migt come as a shock to you to know that not every Muslim is a terrorist [All Muslims must wage jihad. Those who do rightfully justify their actions from the Qu'ran.]
    and not every muslim women is subjected FGM [But Islam approves of it. What would a Christian mother do if her Muslim husband insists that their daughter should be mutilated?]
    Yes we do have freedom of religion is so SA [Meaningless to Muslims. Apostasy gets an automatic death sentence, hence the need for an underground church in South Africa.]

    Contrary to Theresa’s claim, we are not ignorant of Islam. Her attempt at taqiyya here has been exposed. We fear for those Christians that she has put at risk. She did not come here warning Christians ladies about the potential problems of marrying a Muslim man, but tried to cover it up. No, that will not do. She brought up the subject. Nobody condemned her for being married to a Muslim.

    God has placed Himself in a box, the Word of God. Remember, Theresa came here defending Pastor Leon teaching the youth that they should seek to experience trances and he teaches them how to do it contrary to the Word of God.

    But in some issues regarding Theresa I find it distasteful that no understanding is shown to her personal situation.

    We understand her position better than what she gives us credit for. I have said the things that she cannot say, but that needed to be said.

  • Michael

    Point taken…I did not read all of the comments so I am at fault…yes indeed the word is our only defence when it is quoted aptly and in context and with huge passion and love for the lost. I am certainly not siding with what she believes and agree with contents Amanda, and maybe I erred in picking up the wrong tone.

    Having read your replies I find that I agree with most of the content and believe it to be sound…and in line with word of God.Thank you for the correction.

  • Burning Lamp

    I found the following statement about “God in a Box”. I don’t now where it started, but I thought this was excellent.

    “Don’t Put God in a Box.” Can we all agree to never use this sentence again? It’s an unproductive ad hominem thrown into a potentially productive conversation about understanding God.

    I’ve heard it as the answer to a creationist who thinks God could not have designed using the random mechanism of evolution. I’ve heard this phrase tossed out after a long Biblical rationale for why God doesn’t give personal, specific direction as in “God speaks to me.” I’ve heard it as the only rejoinder when someone explains why they don’t believe in charismatic gifts today. I’ve heard it as the only response after an explanation for why Calvinism is the best systematic understanding of the Bible. I’ve heard it from Christians as the alternative to the Bible is our sole source of religious authority.

    “Don’t put God in a box.”

    What I think that line really means is, “I don’t agree with your explanation but I don’t have an argument in response.” It’s a way of dismissing someone’s reasons without saying why they’re wrong.

    And it’s actually kind of rude because it implies that we’re doing something illegitimate with God. But you know what? We all put God in a box – the box being how we best understand God’s revelation of Himself in Scripture. The box is one of God’s own nature we’re all just trying to figure out what the box looks like.

    God should be in a box. What’s the alternative? God has no limitations on what He can be like or act like? That is frightening. God Himself is limited by His own nature. He can’t lie. He can’t sin. He’s can’t go out of existence. God’s box – the definition of what He is like – is what makes Him God and a Person we can love and trust and glorify. If God isn’t in some kind of a box, He would be arbitrary.

    God’s box is the biggest and greatest box there is. He’s omniscient – He knows and believes all true things; but He cannot believe false things. He’s omnipotent – God can do whatever power can do. His potentialities are at the greatest limit of the attributes He possesses. But those very attributes define Him, they describe His box. Our goal is to get the best idea of what that box looks like.

    http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2006/06/dont_put_god_in.html

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    BL

    “Don’t Put God in a Box.”
    Can we all agree to never use this sentence again

    Oh YAY, finally! I really really really really really really really x 10000000 dislike that cliche.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    sMichael

    Oi vey, no dude. Theresa was posting her comments all over (nice tactic they use to misdirect people into thinking they are all nice and sweet) when on another topic they were insulting and make Angus look like a lamb in comparison.

    But it’s ok, not to worry. That’s why we gotta monitor and read everything :)

  • Amanda

    From “God in a Box” or God As He Has Revealed Himself?

    Today, if you happen to be conversing with a group of CHRISTIANS and you boldly, confidently, and succinctly talk about God and His characteristics, attributes and what He has done you are very likely to be accused of “putting God in a box”?

    One of these Christians might even throw a Rob Bell quote or two in your face and tell you that you need to not be so arrogant and should adopt a more humble hermeneutic. According to Bell, “The moment God is figured out with nice neat lines and definitions, we are no longer dealing with God. We are dealing with somebody we made up.” (Velvet Elvis, Page 25)

    Poppycock!

    In the scriptures we have God’s revelation of himself and that divine self-revelation gives us some very hard neat lines and definitions about who God is, what He is like, what He has done and what true worship of Him entails. Those neat lines about God do not have their origin in the human imagination. Instead, their origin is God Himself (2 Tim 3:16, 2 Pet 1:20-21) . In other words, God wants us to know who He is and what He has done so that we will worship Him in spirit and in TRUTH. But, we must always be careful to not allow our imaginations to go beyond what God has revealed about Himself in his word. That which God has not revealed about himself is still mystery.

    Ambrose said it this way:

    “The things which God wishes to be hidden are not to be examined; and the things which He has made manifest are not to be rejected, lest we as ingrates be improperly curious toward the former and damnably ungrateful for the latter.” (De Vocatione Gentium, Bk. 17)

    From the comment thread:

    When I have people approach me saying that I am limiting God by understanding Him and His ways ONLY from the Word of God, I tell them, “Going by God’s Word does not limit God, but rather He is limiting us.” We are the ones that have the fanciful imaginations and emotional experiences that we want to attribute as being from the Spirit of God. God has only revealed to us what He wants us to know about Him; He also limits us so that we will not go beyond what God has revealed about Himself through Jesus Christ. Posted by: Bill Klein

  • Burning Lamp

    don’t know about the origin, but thought you would find this interesting:
    http://www.godinthebox.com/

    I think the origin might be a seeker-sensitive, hip/cool attempt to explain God rather than to study the Word and learn His attributes. What do you think?

  • Michael

    Puting God in a box…however distasteful it sounds…simply put means limiting God…a mind set that some “Christians” have.
    Indeed it is insulting and abhorent to even suggest such a thing and I agree one must refrain from using such glib metaphors as it is a term used by charlatans and deceivers.

  • Amanda

    Michael

    simply put means limiting God…a mind set that some “Christians” have

    I do not understand what you are saying. Could you please give us a for instance of “Christians” who limit God?

  • Grant C

    Amanda

    I think Michael is indicating “christians” as in so-called…then his statement does make good sense, do you agree?

  • Amanda

    Grant

    I don’t know what he means with limiting God. Am I limiting God if I say that He cannot again destroy the earth through a flood?

  • Burning Lamp

    I think what he means is that we cannot fully comprehend God’s ways as the Word says – My ways are not your ways –
    Nothing is impossible with God, but He has the capacity to limit and restrain Himself.

    God cannot do anything that would violate His holiness and purity because He is pure and holy.

    We limit our own faith when we fail to believe God for something. That is human frailty.

  • Mark Pilon

    Roman Catholics await their Eucharist Christ (Jesus son of Goddess Mary)

    Could you correct this very obvious error referring to Mary as “Goddess”. How on earth person who is informed about Catholicism, or any Christain sect could refer to Mary as a “Goddess” is beyond me.

  • Burning Lamp

    Mark, please get a clue. The reference to “Goddess Mary” was referring to how Roman Cathoics view her and we all know she is not a goddess. This was in the same sentence as “their Eucharist Christ” and obviously referring to both a false christ and a false concept of Mary as someone who is to be worshipped.

  • Paul

    I am an ex RCC. The eucharist is not just a representation of the body of Christ but is the actual newly crucified Christ. If you deny this doctrine you will be ex-communicated.

    The RCC calls Jesus down from his heavenly throne to crucify Him 10000 times a day all over the world. This is blasphemy against the once and for all sacrifice that the Messiah made. He died ONCE for our sins!

    Mary has been elevated in the RCC as Co-redemptrix with the Saviour, what a slap in the face for the real Messiah.

    Jesus is the ONLY way to eternity, the RCC Mary is, as their doctrine states, “The Queen of Heaven.” This is the Babylonian goddess, this is her title and she is Semiramis, but throughout time she has had many pagan goddess names.

    Turn to the only SAVIOUR and leave the rest alone, He will forgive your sins, not a priest, and give you salvation and eternal life.

  • Burning Lamp

    Paul, thank you for telling it like it is. Those misguided ones who think they can remain Roman Catholic to reach those in their church are deceived. The only way is what the Bible instructs – Come out and be separate and refuse to participate in what is an abomination and blasphemous.

    This is not Catholic bashing. The most loving thing to do for those in bondage is to show them the Way out of it. But sadly ecumenism has gained a foothold amongst so-called evangelical leaders. Jesus came to set the captives free, but the Roman church keeps them in bondage. Belief in manmade rules and a counterfeit christ only sends one to eternal damnation. Is it not loving to tell someone the truth and lead them to the true Christ?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Paul

    Exactly. They crucify Jesus over and over and over again. Hence Jesus is permanently nailed to the cross. The most horrendous satanic ritual ever!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dear Mark

    If you would care to do more studying on the subject you would within minutes realise that the Catholic Mary is in fact the incarnation of a whole host of Goddesses since the beginning of time.

  • Burning Lamp

    That is right Debs – the RC Mary is just another demonically inspired idol just as all the mythical goddesses were throughout history in Greek and Roman mythology.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    BL

    …. and the Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, and the list goes on.

  • Burning Lamp

    Oh Yeah – connecting the dots and more dots………….all idols and oh how God hates that! RC is built upon idols made of wood, plaster, dough, beads, even water deemed holy.

  • Paul

    One cannot belong to the Messiah and be in the RCC – A Roman Catholic Christian is an Oxymoron.

    As “Burning Lamp’ said, we are to to be separate; how can someone who is saved eat the demonic wafer which is the “real” body of the Saviour – this is deicidel cannabalism (Do I have my spelling wrong, I’ve never used that term before but it fits.?).

    It is very hard to witness to Catholics as they are afraid of ex-communication which sends them straight to hell, at least that is what the pope says! They do not believe in Salvation through Christ only but in works and also the approval of the “Alter Christus”, which is what all priests are.

    They also worship the Pope who, when he speaks “ex-cathedra”, is infallible. Wow, infallible! If they are, why is it that popes often contradict each other and often change the doctrines of previous popes, why is it that they are amongst the greatest despots in history.

    It is good that when we witness, we just talk but leave the work to the Holy Ghost, onlt He can convict them. Let’s just pray for those who are in Cults and then leave it up to the Messiah.

  • Burning Lamp

    Paul, again, thank you for telling it like it is. I would encourage you, as a former RC to engage in discussion with Bunny Trails. I was not an RC and God uses those who came out of cults – I consider RC to be a cult – to minister to those who are still ensnared. God uses our backgrounds and life experiences to minister to others. He could very well be bringing you into such a ministry to reach out to Roman Catholics. You see it in all its ugliness. This is actually rare these days. And you have the courage to verbalize it.

    Of course I believe it all boils down to what is the true Gospel. That is the bedrock and crux of it all rather than getting into all the doctrinal issues. On what is one basing their faith? The rituals of the church to save? That is not the Gospel. Salvation is a free gift and not dispensed by any church. May the Lord lead you in the paths where you can best serve Him with your knowledge.

  • Lolly

    Amanda wrote:

    Theresa
    Are your children raised Muslim? If you have any daughters, did you subject them to FGM? How many wifes does your husband have? Does he beat you as instructed by the Quran? We have freedom of religion in South Africa. Why is that church underground? Is your husband aware of what you are doing and, if so, is he not obliged under Sharia law to report it? I fear for those Christians.

    I have visited a mosque in America where I have witnessed Sunni Muslims confess that Jesus is the Messiah. See if you can think of 5 good things to say about Arabs and Muslims. You are acting liike the devil with your finger pointing. He is the original accuser.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Lolly

    I have visited a mosque in America where I have witnessed Sunni Muslims confess that Jesus is the Messiah. See if you can think of 5 good things to say about Arabs and Muslims. You are acting liike the devil with your finger pointing. He is the original accuser.

    You went to a mosque and saw muslims converted to Christians? Errrrr…

    How about you stop lying. Satan is the father of all lies you know.

  • Paul

    Lolly, Deborah is not lying; Muslims believe in the Second Coming.

  • chanah

    Shalom and the name YESHUA is the rightful name of JESUS, since HE was born in Israel among
    Jews/Hebrews therefore HE had a Hebrew name and that’s YESHUA in greek JESUS, HIS name meaning SALVATION in Hebrew and that’s what HE came to do SAVE us from the Wrath of HIS FATHER

  • chanah

    Paul
    Yes muslims believe that Isa al-Masih will come again but as a muslims to tell us the Christians how stupid we have been for believing that HE is the SON OF GOD, his takse will be to break every cross and kill all the pigs and eventually to kill all Christians if they do not convert to islam, nowhere in a mosque is JESUS CHRIST preached
    And Lolly stop taqiyya here we know that no muslims do not convert in a mosque and unless JESUS CHRIST shows up in person and if HE did it would be world news

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    chanah

    Me thinks your keyboard is broken ;)

  • Henry

    Theresa If you read this I can explain some things about the comments you get and apologize for others. I agree that people get saved as a result of personal encounter with God while other western Missionaries allways like to glorify themselves in beleiving that it is their own work. I have seen some documents which are somewhat disturbing you can run across them when searching these types of sights. One of them can be found at http://www.letusreason.org/curren33.htm
    where the author of the text in question considers circumcision to be a channel for spreading the gospel. And that given in consideration with the kind of work that they think they take credit for I think you could understand the contreversy as earlier you made a somewhat insensitive comment about us being a bunch of uncircumcised Phillistines (although you were directing it to someone who wasn’t accepting you as a Christian which is equivalent to condemning you). Well some people in missions (and believe it isn’t most) still think that it is very hard for a woman to do missions work in Egypt and not be circumcised. That tends to be a problem. To some extent although they are easily displaced. But you know these types of people want to believe that what they do is necessary so that they can feel justified for doing whats necessary and so they try and puch that in any way possible on every body else becasue other wise they have to admit that they are wrong. This is something a large number of us are at least vaguely aware of. And most of us that go to college do know that most of you are not terrorists and happen to be somewhat disalusioned by the extremism. But, in general don’t just call people stupid it is allways better to tell them the truth so that they feel stupid.

  • Burning Lamp

    Henry, I read the article to which you referred and sure didn’t get from it what you did. Mike Oppenheimer is a respected discerner of many years. The purpose of his article was to expose the false belief that it is acceptable for example Muslims to convert to Christ and still be practicing Muslims. This is being promoted by YWAM and other mission organizations. In my view his article is right on target.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    BL

    >> Henry, I read the article to which you referred and sure didn’t get from it what you did.

    Same here.

    >> Mike Oppenheimer is a respected discerner of many years. The purpose of his article was to expose the false belief that it is acceptable for example Muslims to convert to Christ and still be practicing Muslims. This is being promoted by YWAM and other mission organizations. In my view his article is right on target.

    Repeat, right on target.

  • Ciao tutti,

    Everything written in existence today or that was ever written in the past or that will ever be written in the future, is only a commentary of personal views, perspectives, and opinions of one person or group of persons on the Personhood of God of the Godhead who spoke His Word that took on flesh to become manifest for us as man, the Savior of the world of mankind.

    Everything is in some way incomplete, as we are all called in that some way to complete the sufferings in the body of Christ since our Father created all that there is through His Word Jesus Christ and we are subject to Him in being and in understanding by faith whether we like it or not, knowingly or unknowingly, willingly or unwillingly.

    Therefore, whosoever, says to you believe this or come here, or go there and you will find God, and unless it is the Spirit of God which He has given you residing from within that unknown portion of your being whispering to you as was whispered to Abraham who believed and responded and went by faith to an unknown land, hold your peace that it may not leave you but bless the enemies that would lead you astray for no one can command, produce, or feign faith before the Almighty. Faith is an act of love in life and cannot be called forth by any man/woman, for faith cometh by hearing.

    Christ Jesus is our bread come down from heaven, He is the Life, the Way, and the Truth for each and every one of us and He becomes manifest in each and every one who believes in Him and suffers, joys, takes up their cross to follow and to imitate Him on their way to Calvary. God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit; the Holy One, the Mighty One, the Immortal One, the Triune God is worshiped and glorified through the prophets down through the ages He is worshipped and in the Mass in remembrance of Jesus’ life, passion, and death.

    Ciao,

    Giovanni maria tommaso

  • Matthew

    Lolly wrote:

    I have visited a mosque in America where I have witnessed Sunni Muslims confess that Jesus is the Messiah.

    I used to log on to Muslim apologist sites and try to reason with them and was told once, “Islamic tradition holds the view that Jesus (Isa), son of Mary was indeed the promised prophet or Messiah (Masih) send to the Semitic Jewish tribes living in Israel and he will again return to Earth in end times after the arrival of Imam Mahdi to defeat the “great deceiver” i.e. Dajjal (false messiah).”

    So, it is Islamic tradition that Jesus is the Messiah. The Quran mentions Jesus being the Messiah as well: “Indeed, they have disbelieved who have said, “God is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary.” The Messiah said, “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates partners in worship with God, then God has forbidden Paradise for him, and his home is the Fire (Hell). For the wrongdoers, there will be no helpers.” (Quran, 5:72)

    So I would not be surprised to see and hear that all Muslims confess Jesus as the Messiah. However, what Jesus being the Messiah means is radically different from a Biblical viewpoint. This is what I’ve found to be a common trait amongst all cults/false religions. They might use Biblical words, but change the meaning of each word, which is why I can sit down with my Mormon friend and talk for hours about Jesus agreeing upon many points. In reality though, we agree on nothing.

  • Burning Lamp

    Matthew, thanks for putting that so well. This will be one of the most devious of last days deceptions. It is the ecumenial movement on steroids. People like Lolly will buy into it hook, line and sinker. Rick Warren showed his true colors when he prayed at Obama’s inauguration in the name of Isa. That is blaspheming our Lord and most thought it was cleverly tolerant. The Muslim Isa is NOT the Jesus of the Bible.

  • Sorry I’m a bit late getting on to this thread. But to reply to Mark Pilon’s comment:
    Who says Mary is a Goddess? Roman Catholics the world over say it in a prayer to her ever day:

    “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary, MOTHER OF GOD, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

    I was taught to say that myself at the Catholic schools I attended and heard it repeated time out of mind.
    Mary a Goddess? MOTHER OF GOD does not imply just any mere Goddess! If Mother of God doesn’t mean she’s a Goddess (and I spell it with a capital G because that’s what Catholics mean it to say) then what does? They are the ones who call her the MOTHER OF GOD. If she is God’s mother then she was around before God and He could not possibly be eternal!

    If Catholics don’t mean by that that she is a Goddess or God’s mother, then why have such a prayer?
    It is a blasphemous statement. And what else can it hope to achieve other than to make those saying the prayer believe she is a Goddess?
    Although Catholics contradict themselves (at this point only making her a mere goddess-without-the-capital) by telling children that we are to pray to Mary to go to Jesus for us. And this is because, though He will very likely deny our pleas, He will never deny His mother if she asks for us.

    What? He died for us but we have more hope in a plea from Mary a sinner who needed a Saviour according to herself [Luke 1:47].
    Also, she would have to be omnipresent to be able to answer the prayers of millions of Catholics throughout the word who are saying that prayer daily, some of them repeating them over and over on their rosary beads.

    If that doesn’t make her a Goddess what does?

  • Salvador

    Christians Catholics not worship Mary as a Godness. We consider Mary the Mother of God, but this not mean she exists before God.
    It was God who make her his mother. To come to the earth God need the free will of a creature, Mary, so God prepare the soul of Mary to receive his son Jesus. Mary has not original sin because of that, because she need to be sinless to could receive God.

    Mary is the more saint of all saints, but she is inferior to God, but at the same time is the mother of God by the own decision of God Father, God Son and God Holy Spirit.

    I hope my commentary put some light in your thoughts.

    Martin Horan wrote:

    Sorry I’m a bit late getting on to this thread. But to reply to Mark Pilon’s comment:
    Who says Mary is a Goddess? Roman Catholics the world over say it in a prayer to her ever day:

    “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary, MOTHER OF GOD, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

    I was taught to say that myself at the Catholic schools I attended and heard it repeated time out of mind.
    Mary a Goddess? MOTHER OF GOD does not imply just any mere Goddess! If Mother of God doesn’t mean she’s a Goddess (and I spell it with a capital G because that’s what Catholics mean it to say) then what does? They are the ones who call her the MOTHER OF GOD. If she is God’s mother then she was around before God and He could not possibly be eternal!

    If Catholics don’t mean by that that she is a Goddess or God’s mother, then why have such a prayer?
    It is a blasphemous statement. And what else can it hope to achieve other than to make those saying the prayer believe she is a Goddess?
    Although Catholics contradict themselves (at this point only making her a mere goddess-without-the-capital) by telling children that we are to pray to Mary to go to Jesus for us. And this is because, though He will very likely deny our pleas, He will never deny His mother if she asks for us.

    What? He died for us but we have more hope in a plea from Mary a sinner who needed a Saviour according to herself [Luke 1:47].
    Also, she would have to be omnipresent to be able to answer the prayers of millions of Catholics throughout the word who are saying that prayer daily, some of them repeating them over and over on their rosary beads.

    If that doesn’t make her a Goddess what does?

  • Salvador wrote:

    Christians Catholics not worship Mary as a Godness. We consider Mary the Mother of God, but this not mean she exists before God.
    It was God who make her his mother. To come to the earth God need the free will of a creature, Mary, so God prepare the soul of Mary to receive his son Jesus. Mary has not original sin because of that, because she need to be sinless to could receive God.

    The Mary of the Bible said:

    And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:46-47)

    If Mary was born without original sin she would never have referred to Jesus as her Saviour.

    No one is/was sinless, including Mary.

    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)

    The Mary you refer to was a lie because she claimed to be sinless.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Salvator

    >> Mary the Mother of God,

    God does not have a mother. Where is she in the Trinity? It is blasphemy to insinuate that God has a mother.

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