Brian McLaren is going to celebrate Ramadan on 21 Aug 2009

Brian McLaren

Brian McLaren is ACTUALLY going to celebrate Ramadan

And you wont believe it, Emergent’s insist that they do not believe that all faiths lead to the same god. Who do they think they are fooling?  Well it’s apparent the whole world.

Well here, right out of the horses mouth. Brian Mclaren is going to celebrate Ramadan with Christian and Muslim friends.  I have no doubt the Muslims are Muslims.  I also have no doubt that these Christians are not Christian.  They are nothing but liars, leading people right into an interfaith iron snare.

[DTW emphasis and comments in green below}

Brian has this to say on his blog- PART 1:   Ramadan 2009: Part 1 What’s going on? 

{Yes, What is going on!}

Ramadan is the Muslim holy month of fasting for spiritual renewal and purification. It commemorates the month during which Muslims believe Mohammed received the Quran through divine revelation, and it calls Muslims to self-control, sacrificial generosity and solidarity with the poor, diligent reading of the Quran, and intensified prayer.

This year, I, along with a few Christian friends (and perhaps others currently unknown to us will want to join in) will be joining Muslim friends in the fast which begins August 21. We are not doing so in order to become Muslims: we are deeply committed Christians. But as Christians, {all together now- *laugh*} we want to come close to our Muslim neighbors and to share this important part of life with them. Just as Jesus, a devout Jew, overcame religious prejudice {Jesus Christ overcame religious prejudice? – Brian you are a blasphemer and a worshipper of false gods.  Your Christ is sinful.  Jesus Christ is Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit (sinless), walked this earth sinless, was crucified sinless and rose 3 days later sinless} and learned from a Syrophonecian woman and was inspired by her faith two thousand years ago (Matthew 15:21 ff, Mark 7:24 ff), we seek to learn from our Muslim sisters and brothers today. {Brothers and sisters? Well we are in a One World Religion where we are all one.  We are all brethren, brothers and sisters in the false Christ}

Muslims observe Ramadan in the same basic way world-wide: they fast from food, water, sex, etc., from dawn to dusk. We Christians who are joining in the fast will share these four common commitments:

We, as Christians, humbly seek to join Muslims in this observance of Ramadan as a God-honoring {Brian, please clarify from now on that your god is not that same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  You owe it to yourself to be honest.  Is this not what the New World Religion is all about- love?  Love does not equate to lying}  expression of peace, fellowship, and neighborliness. Each of us will have at least one Muslim friend who will serve as our partner in the fast. These friends welcome us in the same spirit {Which spirit is this Brian?  Come now be a man and say it, go on, I dare you} of peace, fellowship, and neighborliness.We will seek to avoid being disrespectful or unfaithful to our own faith tradition {Many might fall for this lame excuse.  Fortunately there are some who are not stupid.  Actually you are nothing but one big insult to the Gospel of Jesus Christ} in our desire to be respectful to the faith tradition of our friends. For example, since the Bible teaches us the importance of fasting and being generous to the poor, we can participate as Christians in fidelity to the Bible as our Muslim friends do so in fidelity to the Quran. {Brian, just say it.  All religions lead to the same god.  Reading your reflections can be shortened into one tiny sentence.

Among the core values of Ramadan are self control, expressing kindness, and resolving conflicts. For this reason, if we are criticized or misunderstood by Christians, {Misunderstood? Is that what they call it now. That is the entire basis of downgrading the bible into a message that will always be misunderstood.  You insult yourself you know that?  You admit yourself to be a failure because you can’t understand the Bible}  Muslims, or others for this endeavor, we will avoid defending ourselves or engaging in arguments. Instead, we will seek to explain ourselves humbly, simply, and briefly when necessary, connecting with empathy to the needs and feelings of others as we express our own. {Humbly telling lies.  Why don’t your just tell the truth instead}

Our main purpose for participating will be our own spiritual growth, health, learning, and maturity, but we also hope that our experience will inspire others to pray {Pray to who?  The god of the Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Catholic and anything else you can find to pray too in the coming future.} and work for peace and the common good, together with people of other faith traditions.

May God bless all people, and teach us to love God and love one another, and so fulfill our calling as human beings. {Which god Brian?  And please, we ask that you do all genuine born again Christians a favour and separate us from your blasphemy.   We do not wanted to be blessed by your god- a false Christ}

I’ll share my personal story about deciding to join in the fast in the next few days, and I’ll also share regular updates and reflections here on this blog (brianmclaren.net) leading up to, during, and after Ramadan. {Oh spare us the trauma of regular updates}

If you’d like to consider this observance, or just would like more information, here are some good links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan
http://www.holidays.net/ramadan/

How about these good informational links, have you heard of the 10 commandments?

 Exodus 20:2-17
 3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
 
Deuteronomy 5:6-21
 7 you shall have no other gods before me.
8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,
10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
 
Exodus 34:11-27
11 Observe what I command you today. See, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
12 Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you.
13 You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles
14 (for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).
15 You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone among them will invite you, and you will eat of the sacrifice.
16 And you will take wives from among their daughters for your sons, and their daughters who prostitute themselves to their gods will make your sons also prostitute themselves to their gods.
17 You shall not make cast idols.

{These Biblical verses above are a slap right across your interfaith reflection.  None of these verses can ever be “misunderstood”.  If you don’t get it Brian, you should bow out gracefully and get a proper day job}

BRIAN MCLAREN- PART 2:   Ramadan 2009: Part 2 Why is a committed Christian joining faithful Muslims in observing Ramadan? 

{Because you are not a Christian}

When I wrote Everything Must Change, I spent over a year studying our world’s biggest challenges. It became clear through my research that three critical social/economic/political challenges underlie the others:

1. How can we develop a reformed and renewed economic system {One World Financial system} that sustains and regenerates the planet rather than consumes and degrades it? (The challenge of the planet, the crisis of an unsustainable prosperity) {Prepare for yourself for socialism}
2. How can we deal with the growing gap between rich and poor, {Well, that’s easy Brian, take from the rich and give to the poor until we are all poor- socialism} where a privileged few live in extreme luxury leaving the many farther and farther behind, with about a sixth of the global population living struggling extreme poverty? (The challenge of poverty, the crisis of growing inequity)
3. How can we learn to address and resolve conflicts with nonviolent means, {Remove the ones who cause conflict?  In order to bring balance you need to adjust the scales, remove some of the weight on the one side to bring the world into alignment} when more and more groups and nations are being armed with more and more potentially catastrophic weapons? (The challenge of peace, the crisis of security)

But it also became clear that beneath these challenges, there was an even deeper question: why weren’t we dealing with the first three problems, when they are simultaneously so obvious and dangerous?  {Because it’s not time yet to deal with these problems, a plan needs to be put in place first before you can start to eradicate those who disagree} I concluded that our societies are driven by narratives that can be either creative or destructive, and our current narratives drive us away from creative engagement with our biggest challenges. {Narratives?  You mean the Word of God that drives the world away from engagement with other gods}

‘Where do societal narratives come from?’ I wondered as I continued in my research. Clearly, they usually come from faith communities. But our faith communities today too often teach us narratives that drive us to make the first three crises worse, not better, which brings us to our fourth great challenge:

4. How can our faith communities discover and communicate healing rather than destructive narratives so that we will meet the first three challenges? (The challenge of purpose, the crisis of spirituality)

As a Christian, of course, {Of course you are not a Christian} I seek to challenge my fellow Christians {Other non Christians} to grapple with this challenge in a Christian context. {Non-biblical context}  But the truth is, no single religion can meet this challenge alone. So by the time I was finished with EMC, I knew that inter-religious collaboration for the common good would be an even bigger part of my future than it had been in my past. {Inter-religious, almost said it Brian, that was close}

Then last year, I was speaking at Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and after the service, an enthusiastic woman named Nadyne came up to me and told me about a network she and a Muslim friend had started. It was called Peace Moms … (to be continued)

P.S. If you want to learn more, along with Peace Moms …  Read the Spirit and FaithHouse Manhattan and Abrahamic Alliance are great examples of interfaith relationship-building.

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8 Comment authors
Elmarie ADiscerning the WorldTrenzRoger SanerEugene Roberts Recent comment authors
cecilia
Guest
cecilia

apart from the so many verses in Scripture where The LORD God urges those called by Him, in N.T. those sanctified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, NOT TO associate, NOT TO learn, NOT TO follow practices, etc. I only stipulate a few, there are tons more.
I often question why do those who call themselves Christians, before they embark on a set course or decision, NOT MAKE A STUDY FROM THE WORD OF GOD about what they’re gonna do? People read the one book after the other, NOT even realizing that by doing so, they’re actually brainwashing themselves into believing that what they wanna do is not so bad, it’s all for the common good.
Now I know the ones that want to keep the season of Ramadan with the Muslim people, will not head a warning, but I’m gonna share nevertheless. Whilst I was in the Dutch Reformed Church, I was involved in Muslim Evangelism. If only I knew then what I know now …. we don’t even realize what we’re doing!! These ones that wants to observe this Muslim practice, will say but they don’t bow down to another God. Oh Yeah? The name of their god is mentioned so often, all the talks are about their god and practices; then there’s the hand washing, the feet washing, the visits to the temples; not even to think about the “ways/practices” of these heathen nation, eg. women & children set apart, men higher then them, etc. Question: will you enjoy being served by the women if you know that they sit in the kitchen, not allowed to touch their food before the men are finished eating?
One can ask, but they don’t seem to see that as being “bad”, “harassing”, degraded women, etc. Yes? says who? the practices of their religion has been branded into their systems, brainwashing them to completely subjection under their laws. there’s now way out, except death. so they submit, and it becomes a lifestyle.
When I was involved in the Ramadan, (as a visitor, not in the Dutch Reformed Church any more), only years after that I heard that I only saw what they wanted me to see. being a women, it was only the tip of what was happening. So yes, even when a man go to observe this feast, you will only be shown what they want you to see. then, because of what you see, you will stand a big change to be drawn into the system bit by bit, until you speak the words: there is only one god….
Say – what you’re gonna do when it’s time to visit the temple? or for that matter, when it’s time to pray? so you’re gonna observe the times they pray, yet pray to your own (g)God? How can you be so naive? Christians can pray to God any time of the day; here you’re gonna wait for the “call to pray”, which by the way, is a war-cry;(not many people know that).
All righty then, we’re past Ramadan. and by compromising you’ve stayed friends. and you are (and you WILL be) invited to accompany your friend(s) to Mecca. so how are you going to get out of this one?
calling them brothers and sisters? Yeah, I agree we are all made from the same blood, according to Scripture. But one chooses to serve a different god apart from God. If they’re not washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are no brothers and sisters of the real Christians!
over to a view Scriptures:
Joshua 23:7
Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; do not invoke the names of their gods or swear by them. You must not serve them or bow down to them.
Exodus 23:13
“Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.
Deuteronomy 4:19
And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
Jeremiah 44:8
Why provoke me to anger with what your hands have made, burning incense to other gods in Egypt, where you have come to live? You will destroy yourselves and make yourselves an object of cursing and reproach among all the nations on earth.
Ezekiel 20:32
” ‘You say, “We want to be like the nations, like the peoples of the world, who serve wood and stone.” But what you have in mind will never happen.
and we can end this by quoting:
Deuteronomy 12:29-31 (New International Version)
29 The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
AND
Jeremiah 10
God and Idols
1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.” 6 No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power. 7 Who should not revere you, O King of the nations? This is your due. Among all the wise men of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is no one like you. 8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols. 9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple— all made by skilled workers. 10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath. 11 “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ ” 12 But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding. 13 When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar; he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses. 14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every goldsmith is shamed by his idols. His images are a fraud; they have no breath in them. 15 They are worthless, the objects of mockery; when their judgment comes, they will perish. 16 He who is the Portion of Jacob is not like these, for he is the Maker of all things, including Israel, the tribe of his inheritance— the LORD Almighty is his name.
HEED THIS WARNING:
Deuteronomy 18:9
[ Detestable Practices ] When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there.
Think twice before engaging into observance of holy days of heathen nations! God won’t be mocked.
I ask this question: we are so eager to, out of good will, to get accustomed with others, to get along with others; to observe their feasts or whatever else, with them. WHY is it that these people (hardly any of them then), are willing to do the same towards their “christian friends”? Because they know of the danger of brainwashing; because they know when you are a visitor, you only see the top; the rest you are forced to see when you stepped into the trap of becoming one of them!
cecilia

cecilia
Guest
cecilia

“If you’d like to consider this observance, or just would like more information, here are some good links:”
> did I forget to say that Ramadan is NOT a holiday! it is one of the Muslim’s HOLY DAYs!
I’m really most troubled about this whole trend of “giving space” to especially the Muslim (and that in the practices of their religion). Have the people who “observe” Muslim Holy Days, ever, as Christians who are supposed to care for and pray for Israel, who is God’s chosen; have they ever “considered observing” God’s HOLY DAYS, which we can find in the Old Testament part of the Bible?
Being what it is, going back to “observing” feast days, is going back to “the Law”. You just have to choose the Law you want to be bound by, and off you go (I mean stay, because you will be bound by Law(s)). cecilia

Amanda
Guest
Amanda

I take it that all those who have defended the emergents on DTW will be joining Brian McLaren in observing the fast. Cobus, Ryan, Eugene, Iggy, Chad, Nic, Roger? If not, why not?

Discerning the World
Guest
Discerning the World

>> I take it that all those who have defended the emergents on DTW will be joining Brian McLaren in observing the fast. Cobus, Ryan, Eugene, Iggy, Chad, Nic, Roger? If not, why not?

Well when Brian was here in SA at Amahoro he tickled and prickled their ears with false teachings and fables. They all look upto him, so why wouldn’t they? If Brain can do it then it must be ok. ‘tests water with toe’.

The Month or Feast of Ramadan is when it is believed the Holy Quran was sent down from heaven, a guidance unto men, a declaration of direction, and a means of Salvation — the fast/feast lasts an entire month. Ramadan is the 9th month in the Hijrah calender which is lunar so the months rotate backwards between the seasons and the months start when the crescent moon is sighted in the sky. This varies from country to country. Ramadan is the month when Angel Jibrial brought the Qur’an down to Muhammad and is when the Hijrah started- the flight from Mecca to Medina. The Ramadan month is important because it helps Muslims get closer to ALLAH -Subhanna wa ta’ala, is the time when the Devil is locked up in Jahannam(hell) and the gates of Jinnah (heaven) are open. If a Muslim reads the Qur’an he or she gets 70 credits for each letter he or she reads. Many Muslim men go to the Masjid (Mosque) every night in Ramadan and they read 1 Sura (chapter) of the Qur’an( Muslim holy book) every night so the Qur’an is finished by the end of the month. Ramadan also is when we can remember ALLAH and everything he has provided us with and is when we can remember the poor by abstaining from eating, drinking and having sexual relations with our married spouse from sunrise to sunset. At the end of every fast Muslims either break their fast with dates (tumma in Arabic) and a glass of milk or water; or they pray for Maghrib.

Wonder how many ‘credits’ a Christian will get for reading out of the Qur’an? 2 credits if they are lucky? And quite frankly I think 70 credits per word if a rip off. I would negotiate at least 120 credits (it’s called inflation). When I used to play Word of Warcraft (years ago when I was unsaved and had no life) I used to get way more imaginary gold by hunting computer generated animals and selling leather at the auction house for big bucks. I would also put my fashion designing skills into action to make fake clothing to sell as well. After literally playing WoW for 21 solid human days I had…tons of money, transport, clothing, armour, cool weaponry, and a pet that would kick the living day lights out of all my opponents; in other words I have absolutely NOTHING.

Then there is another holy day which follows after the holy month of Ramadan called Eid Aladha, which is in the Hajj (holy pilgrimage) season. Muslims celebrate Eid Aladha by slaughtering a sheep. This is blasphemy for Jesus is the slaughtered Lamb, who’s split blood washes away our sin – so anyone who partakes in anything muslim REJECTS Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Eid Al Fitr means “Breaking the fast” and this is when all the Muslims wear their new best clothing, and invite their friends and family over for celebrations. Men will celebrate in one room and women and children go to another room to celebrate.

Hmm sounds no different really to a Mighty Men conference (the seperation that is). Emergent women, stand up for your rights! Insist that when you go celebrate Ramadan with your husband that you get to party with them in the same room.

Eugene Roberts
Guest

I take it that all those who have defended the emergents on DTW will be joining Brian McLaren in observing the fast. Cobus, Ryan, Eugene, Iggy, Chad, Nic, Roger? If not, why not?

No I am not.

Be blessed
Eugene

Roger Saner
Guest
Roger Saner

deleted by AdMo because AdMo can

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Trendz

Oh good grief…

So answer this: the Trendz is that the Bible says that all religions lead to the God of the bible? YES/NO

I wont even go into the other scriptures you used…and the women at the well story is like soooo Dan Kimball, soooo last year. Come let’s get some new emergent examples of how to add your own interpretation to the Bible in 5 easy steps.

Roger Saner
Guest
Roger Saner

Ooh ooh, I got a comment deleted! (Adds a mental +1).

However, I’m not sure why. I re-read the rules, and guess I must be annoying you. Sorry.

As for Ramadaan, maybe next year (to respond to Iggy).

Roger Saner
Guest
Roger Saner

ROFL!!! Sure, I’ll send the photo – any particular self-condemning pose you’d like to see me in?

Trenz
Guest
Trenz

Shame you guys are more religious than the Muslims. Some questions. What vision did Peter get when he was still being ” separate” as you are. 2ndly in Romans its talks about how we can eat meat sacrificed to other gods (small G). Guys its only by Gods grace that you are acceptable (obviously washed in His Blood). So imitate our Saviour who broke tradition and spoke to the woman at the well- and more and more.

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Roger:

>> Ooh ooh, I got a comment deleted!

Not sure. Deleting/Moderating comments is no more my prob. AdMo manages that side of things.

>> As for Ramadaan, maybe next year (to respond to Iggy).

Send photo for the record.

Roger Saner
Guest
Roger Saner

Oh yes, now I remember what I wrote that was so offensive: something about “I unthinkingly follow Brian into whatever thing he’s into next.” I’m sure glad he’s not into adventure sports, because I have a low tolerance for adrenaline, and it would be a really difficult decision to give up my own free will and take up skydiving, but if the Right Reverend Teacher-of-all-that-is-True McLaren does it, I guess I’ll have to. Me and everyone else who’s read one of Brian’s books, because it’s true, once you open a cover of something he’s written you’re automatically converted to whatever New World Order he’s part of – it’s true! I even heard that when publishing his books, Zondervan prays over each of them and puts a little spiritual goblin of lies which takes away the thinking capacity of any readers. It’s diabolical, but true (yes, all of the expose’s about what’s *really* going on in the world will be published on the internet first).

Don’t do it, Brian! For my sake! And my poor adrenaline tolerance!

Roger Saner
Guest
Roger Saner

Well, that’s the thing with deleted comments – the poor authors can’t remember what they wrote in the first place! :p

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Nope that’s not what you said, but I’ll accept the above.

Elmarie A
Guest
Elmarie A

CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE DOESN’T MATTER TO BRIAN MCLAREN

By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jul 15, 2010

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols?

For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, ”I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Irrational Philosophy And A-Logical Postmodern Word Games

Well, in the real world anyway, Christian doctrine couldn’t matter or McLaren wouldn’t say the stupid thing he says below. Apprising Ministries now points you to the following from Living Spiritual Teacher and Emerging Church guru Brian McLaren:

I grow more and more convinced that the way forward is a grass-roots alliance among emerging Pentecostals, progressive and post-Evangelicals, Missional Mainline Protestants, Progressive Catholics and Orthodox, and indigenous Christians … (Online source)

Forward to where? And how are regenerated Christians supposed to make religious alliances with progressive/liberals who deny Who Jesus and are still dead in their sins; or with apostates whose church has placed its—never changed—anathema upon the very Gospel of Jesus Christ itself.

The above is a reference to the foolish “big tent” Christianity, which is the new hybrid form of postmodern Progressive Christianity and de-formation of the Christian faith they’re now refering to as Emergence Christianity. This is what Emergent Church guru McLaren begins laying out in A New Kind of Christianity.

However, the only place that can work is the synthetic reality of Humpty Dumpty language where in their irrational phlosophy words mean whatever one wants them to mean. Again I serve notice: These posers will never have their big tent universalism as long as genuine Christian men like me are still breathing.

Don’t be fooled by such as these; see them for who they are — and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them (Acts 20:30).

CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE DOESN'T MATTER TO BRIAN MCLAREN