Brian McLaren is going to celebrate Ramadan on 21 Aug 2009

16 Responses

  1. cecilia says:

    apart from the so many verses in Scripture where The LORD God urges those called by Him, in N.T. those sanctified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, NOT TO associate, NOT TO learn, NOT TO follow practices, etc. I only stipulate a few, there are tons more.
    I often question why do those who call themselves Christians, before they embark on a set course or decision, NOT MAKE A STUDY FROM THE WORD OF GOD about what they’re gonna do? People read the one book after the other, NOT even realizing that by doing so, they’re actually brainwashing themselves into believing that what they wanna do is not so bad, it’s all for the common good.
    Now I know the ones that want to keep the season of Ramadan with the Muslim people, will not head a warning, but I’m gonna share nevertheless. Whilst I was in the Dutch Reformed Church, I was involved in Muslim Evangelism. If only I knew then what I know now …. we don’t even realize what we’re doing!! These ones that wants to observe this Muslim practice, will say but they don’t bow down to another God. Oh Yeah? The name of their god is mentioned so often, all the talks are about their god and practices; then there’s the hand washing, the feet washing, the visits to the temples; not even to think about the “ways/practices” of these heathen nation, eg. women & children set apart, men higher then them, etc. Question: will you enjoy being served by the women if you know that they sit in the kitchen, not allowed to touch their food before the men are finished eating?
    One can ask, but they don’t seem to see that as being “bad”, “harassing”, degraded women, etc. Yes? says who? the practices of their religion has been branded into their systems, brainwashing them to completely subjection under their laws. there’s now way out, except death. so they submit, and it becomes a lifestyle.
    When I was involved in the Ramadan, (as a visitor, not in the Dutch Reformed Church any more), only years after that I heard that I only saw what they wanted me to see. being a women, it was only the tip of what was happening. So yes, even when a man go to observe this feast, you will only be shown what they want you to see. then, because of what you see, you will stand a big change to be drawn into the system bit by bit, until you speak the words: there is only one god….
    Say – what you’re gonna do when it’s time to visit the temple? or for that matter, when it’s time to pray? so you’re gonna observe the times they pray, yet pray to your own (g)God? How can you be so naive? Christians can pray to God any time of the day; here you’re gonna wait for the “call to pray”, which by the way, is a war-cry;(not many people know that).
    All righty then, we’re past Ramadan. and by compromising you’ve stayed friends. and you are (and you WILL be) invited to accompany your friend(s) to Mecca. so how are you going to get out of this one?
    calling them brothers and sisters? Yeah, I agree we are all made from the same blood, according to Scripture. But one chooses to serve a different god apart from God. If they’re not washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are no brothers and sisters of the real Christians!
    over to a view Scriptures:
    Joshua 23:7
    Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; do not invoke the names of their gods or swear by them. You must not serve them or bow down to them.
    Exodus 23:13
    “Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.
    Deuteronomy 4:19
    And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
    Jeremiah 44:8
    Why provoke me to anger with what your hands have made, burning incense to other gods in Egypt, where you have come to live? You will destroy yourselves and make yourselves an object of cursing and reproach among all the nations on earth.
    Ezekiel 20:32
    ” ‘You say, “We want to be like the nations, like the peoples of the world, who serve wood and stone.” But what you have in mind will never happen.
    and we can end this by quoting:
    Deuteronomy 12:29-31 (New International Version)
    29 The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
    AND
    Jeremiah 10
    God and Idols
    1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.” 6 No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power. 7 Who should not revere you, O King of the nations? This is your due. Among all the wise men of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is no one like you. 8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols. 9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple— all made by skilled workers. 10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath. 11 “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ ” 12 But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding. 13 When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar; he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses. 14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every goldsmith is shamed by his idols. His images are a fraud; they have no breath in them. 15 They are worthless, the objects of mockery; when their judgment comes, they will perish. 16 He who is the Portion of Jacob is not like these, for he is the Maker of all things, including Israel, the tribe of his inheritance— the LORD Almighty is his name.
    HEED THIS WARNING:
    Deuteronomy 18:9
    [ Detestable Practices ] When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there.
    Think twice before engaging into observance of holy days of heathen nations! God won’t be mocked.
    I ask this question: we are so eager to, out of good will, to get accustomed with others, to get along with others; to observe their feasts or whatever else, with them. WHY is it that these people (hardly any of them then), are willing to do the same towards their “christian friends”? Because they know of the danger of brainwashing; because they know when you are a visitor, you only see the top; the rest you are forced to see when you stepped into the trap of becoming one of them!
    cecilia

  2. cecilia says:

    “If you’d like to consider this observance, or just would like more information, here are some good links:”
    > did I forget to say that Ramadan is NOT a holiday! it is one of the Muslim’s HOLY DAYs!
    I’m really most troubled about this whole trend of “giving space” to especially the Muslim (and that in the practices of their religion). Have the people who “observe” Muslim Holy Days, ever, as Christians who are supposed to care for and pray for Israel, who is God’s chosen; have they ever “considered observing” God’s HOLY DAYS, which we can find in the Old Testament part of the Bible?
    Being what it is, going back to “observing” feast days, is going back to “the Law”. You just have to choose the Law you want to be bound by, and off you go (I mean stay, because you will be bound by Law(s)). cecilia

  3. AdMo says:

    “Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you, And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to Me sons and daughters saith the Lord Almighty.”

    II Corinthians 6:14-18

  4. Amanda says:

    I take it that all those who have defended the emergents on DTW will be joining Brian McLaren in observing the fast. Cobus, Ryan, Eugene, Iggy, Chad, Nic, Roger? If not, why not?

  5. Discerning the World says:

    >> I take it that all those who have defended the emergents on DTW will be joining Brian McLaren in observing the fast. Cobus, Ryan, Eugene, Iggy, Chad, Nic, Roger? If not, why not?

    Well when Brian was here in SA at Amahoro he tickled and prickled their ears with false teachings and fables. They all look upto him, so why wouldn’t they? If Brain can do it then it must be ok. ‘tests water with toe’.

    The Month or Feast of Ramadan is when it is believed the Holy Quran was sent down from heaven, a guidance unto men, a declaration of direction, and a means of Salvation — the fast/feast lasts an entire month. Ramadan is the 9th month in the Hijrah calender which is lunar so the months rotate backwards between the seasons and the months start when the crescent moon is sighted in the sky. This varies from country to country. Ramadan is the month when Angel Jibrial brought the Qur’an down to Muhammad and is when the Hijrah started- the flight from Mecca to Medina. The Ramadan month is important because it helps Muslims get closer to ALLAH -Subhanna wa ta’ala, is the time when the Devil is locked up in Jahannam(hell) and the gates of Jinnah (heaven) are open. If a Muslim reads the Qur’an he or she gets 70 credits for each letter he or she reads. Many Muslim men go to the Masjid (Mosque) every night in Ramadan and they read 1 Sura (chapter) of the Qur’an( Muslim holy book) every night so the Qur’an is finished by the end of the month. Ramadan also is when we can remember ALLAH and everything he has provided us with and is when we can remember the poor by abstaining from eating, drinking and having sexual relations with our married spouse from sunrise to sunset. At the end of every fast Muslims either break their fast with dates (tumma in Arabic) and a glass of milk or water; or they pray for Maghrib.

    Wonder how many ‘credits’ a Christian will get for reading out of the Qur’an? 2 credits if they are lucky? And quite frankly I think 70 credits per word if a rip off. I would negotiate at least 120 credits (it’s called inflation). When I used to play Word of Warcraft (years ago when I was unsaved and had no life) I used to get way more imaginary gold by hunting computer generated animals and selling leather at the auction house for big bucks. I would also put my fashion designing skills into action to make fake clothing to sell as well. After literally playing WoW for 21 solid human days I had…tons of money, transport, clothing, armour, cool weaponry, and a pet that would kick the living day lights out of all my opponents; in other words I have absolutely NOTHING.

    Then there is another holy day which follows after the holy month of Ramadan called Eid Aladha, which is in the Hajj (holy pilgrimage) season. Muslims celebrate Eid Aladha by slaughtering a sheep. This is blasphemy for Jesus is the slaughtered Lamb, who’s split blood washes away our sin – so anyone who partakes in anything muslim REJECTS Jesus Christ the Son of God.

    Eid Al Fitr means “Breaking the fast” and this is when all the Muslims wear their new best clothing, and invite their friends and family over for celebrations. Men will celebrate in one room and women and children go to another room to celebrate.

    Hmm sounds no different really to a Mighty Men conference (the seperation that is). Emergent women, stand up for your rights! Insist that when you go celebrate Ramadan with your husband that you get to party with them in the same room.

  6. I take it that all those who have defended the emergents on DTW will be joining Brian McLaren in observing the fast. Cobus, Ryan, Eugene, Iggy, Chad, Nic, Roger? If not, why not?

    No I am not.

    Be blessed
    Eugene

  7. Roger Saner says:

    deleted by AdMo because AdMo can

  8. Discerning the World says:

    Trendz

    Oh good grief…

    So answer this: the Trendz is that the Bible says that all religions lead to the God of the bible? YES/NO

    I wont even go into the other scriptures you used…and the women at the well story is like soooo Dan Kimball, soooo last year. Come let’s get some new emergent examples of how to add your own interpretation to the Bible in 5 easy steps.

  9. Roger Saner says:

    Ooh ooh, I got a comment deleted! (Adds a mental +1).

    However, I’m not sure why. I re-read the rules, and guess I must be annoying you. Sorry.

    As for Ramadaan, maybe next year (to respond to Iggy).

  10. Roger Saner says:

    ROFL!!! Sure, I’ll send the photo – any particular self-condemning pose you’d like to see me in?

  11. Trenz says:

    Shame you guys are more religious than the Muslims. Some questions. What vision did Peter get when he was still being ” separate” as you are. 2ndly in Romans its talks about how we can eat meat sacrificed to other gods (small G). Guys its only by Gods grace that you are acceptable (obviously washed in His Blood). So imitate our Saviour who broke tradition and spoke to the woman at the well- and more and more.

  12. Discerning the World says:

    Roger:

    >> Ooh ooh, I got a comment deleted!

    Not sure. Deleting/Moderating comments is no more my prob. AdMo manages that side of things.

    >> As for Ramadaan, maybe next year (to respond to Iggy).

    Send photo for the record.

  13. Roger Saner says:

    Oh yes, now I remember what I wrote that was so offensive: something about “I unthinkingly follow Brian into whatever thing he’s into next.” I’m sure glad he’s not into adventure sports, because I have a low tolerance for adrenaline, and it would be a really difficult decision to give up my own free will and take up skydiving, but if the Right Reverend Teacher-of-all-that-is-True McLaren does it, I guess I’ll have to. Me and everyone else who’s read one of Brian’s books, because it’s true, once you open a cover of something he’s written you’re automatically converted to whatever New World Order he’s part of – it’s true! I even heard that when publishing his books, Zondervan prays over each of them and puts a little spiritual goblin of lies which takes away the thinking capacity of any readers. It’s diabolical, but true (yes, all of the expose’s about what’s *really* going on in the world will be published on the internet first).

    Don’t do it, Brian! For my sake! And my poor adrenaline tolerance!

  14. Roger Saner says:

    Well, that’s the thing with deleted comments – the poor authors can’t remember what they wrote in the first place! :p

  15. Discerning the World says:

    Nope that’s not what you said, but I’ll accept the above.

  16. Elmarie A says:

    CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE DOESN’T MATTER TO BRIAN MCLAREN

    By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jul 15, 2010

    Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols?

    For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, ”I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

    Irrational Philosophy And A-Logical Postmodern Word Games

    Well, in the real world anyway, Christian doctrine couldn’t matter or McLaren wouldn’t say the stupid thing he says below. Apprising Ministries now points you to the following from Living Spiritual Teacher and Emerging Church guru Brian McLaren:

    I grow more and more convinced that the way forward is a grass-roots alliance among emerging Pentecostals, progressive and post-Evangelicals, Missional Mainline Protestants, Progressive Catholics and Orthodox, and indigenous Christians … (Online source)

    Forward to where? And how are regenerated Christians supposed to make religious alliances with progressive/liberals who deny Who Jesus and are still dead in their sins; or with apostates whose church has placed its—never changed—anathema upon the very Gospel of Jesus Christ itself.

    The above is a reference to the foolish “big tent” Christianity, which is the new hybrid form of postmodern Progressive Christianity and de-formation of the Christian faith they’re now refering to as Emergence Christianity. This is what Emergent Church guru McLaren begins laying out in A New Kind of Christianity.

    However, the only place that can work is the synthetic reality of Humpty Dumpty language where in their irrational phlosophy words mean whatever one wants them to mean. Again I serve notice: These posers will never have their big tent universalism as long as genuine Christian men like me are still breathing.

    Don’t be fooled by such as these; see them for who they are — and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them (Acts 20:30).

    http://apprising.org/2010/07/15/christian-doctrine-doesnt-matter-to-brian-mclaren/

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