Dominionism and the Rise of Christian Imperialism


The below article is extremely interesting when it comes to examining and explaining Dominionism. The who’s who of the so called ‘Christian anointed’ are all part of it…are you?  If you are, please get out of this horrible deception now and return to the Gospel of Jesus Christ before it’s too late.  You can not for one second entertain any form of heresy against the Gospel of Jesus Christ for if you accept one error sooner or later you might accept them all.


Dominionism and the Rise of Christian Imperialism

By Sarah Leslie

For the past several decades the political Left has focused attention on the Christian Right’s political activism in America. Particularly, the Left has been highly critical of a select group of dominionists called Reconstructionists, whose aggressive verbiage, extreme Calvinist theologies, and religious political agendas have made it an ideal target for outrage. But, as Leftist researcher Sara Diamond has astutely observed, “the Reconstructionists’ religion of Calvinism. . . makes them unlikely to appeal to most evangelicals.”4 Indeed, few Reconstructionists would consider themselves to be evangelicals. Nevertheless, their influence has been considerable over the much larger group of patriotic evangelicals.

There are two other dominionist sects within evangelicalism that have escaped in-depth scrutiny from the Left. These dominionists have been able to function virtually incognito for several reasons: 1) They have been deeply embedded within the evangelical subculture; 2) They cloaked their dominionism with new terminologies and doctrines over a period of thirty years; and 3) They figured out how to package dominionism using sophisticated mass marketing techniques. Also noteworthy: these two other dominionist camps have been operating in a dialectical fashion – while one group appealed to the TBN charismatics with all of its emotional excesses, the other group carefully managed its more intellectual public image to conform to traditional evangelical standards.

his paper is a brief overview of the three main dominionist movements operating inside evangelicaldom and examines how all three of these sects are now converging around a global “kingdom” agenda. This paper is not a treatise on doctrine, nor is it an historical record, nor is it a thorough analysis of the multifarious streams of evangelical dominionism. This paper does not cover the broader issue of dominionist sects within other world religions, except for a few brief noteworthy mentions. To examine the totality of the individuals, the organizations, and their cross-linkages would require an exhaustive study which is beyond the scope of this brief synopsis. Even so, every point made in this paper could be validated by dozens, sometimes hundreds, of pieces of documentation. The inquiring reader may check out the footnotes and references.

Only a small handful of Christian discernment and apologetics ministries, of which this writer is a part, have been paying attention to the intersection of the dominionist streams. The apologetic ministries fulfill a Scriptural role to examine and expose false doctrines and teachers, and to warn other believers of heresies (Jude 3, 2 Peter 2:1). Increasingly, over the past two decades, many apologists have become seduced by dominionism, blunting their ability to critically examine the roots and fruits of this rapidly rising new church era.

Dominionism in brief

Throughout the 2000 year history of Christianity there has always been a vein of dominionism embedded in the strata of doctrines. This seam has ebbed and flowed for 20 centuries, sometimes submerged, sometimes exposed. Whenever out in the open, it has given rise to horrible abuses done in the name of Christ. In the early 21st century, once again this vein is now showing and active. Keep in mind:

Dominionism is always an aberration of true Christian theology.
A remnant of believers has always opposed it, often suffering a martyr’s fate at the hands of intolerant dominionists.

Traditional Christianity teaches:

The Gospel of Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ and His shed blood on the cross. The emphasis is placed upon repentance and conversion of individual souls. The Kingdom of God in this age is spiritual and grows through efforts of evangelism based on teaching the Bible. It is “not of this world” (John 18:36), but a spiritual rule in the hearts of men (Luke 17:20-21). Furthermore, the Kingdom of God is only finally realized upon Christ’s second return to Earth, whereby He Himself establishes His literal and physical reign.

The evangelism mandate by Word and Spirit

Christ never intended that His gospel should be propagated by fire and sword or His righteousness wrought by the wrath of man. When the high praises of God are in our mouth with them we should have an olive-branch of peace in our hands. Christ’s victories are by the power of His gospel and grace over spiritual enemies, in which all believers are more than conquerors. The word of God is the two-edged sword (Heb. 4:12), the sword of the Spirit (Eph. 6:17).5 [emphasis added]

Matthew Henry, circa 1700

Dominionism teaches:

The Gospel of Salvation is achieved by setting up the “Kingdom of God” as a literal and physical kingdom to be “advanced” on Earth in the present age. Some dominionists liken the New Testament Kingdom to the Old Testament Israel in ways that justify taking up the sword, or other methods of punitive judgment, to war against enemies of their kingdom. Dominionists teach that men can be coerced or compelled to enter the kingdom. They assign to the Church duties and rights that belong Scripturally only to Jesus Christ. This includes the esoteric belief that believers can “incarnate” Christ and function as His body on Earth to establish His kingdom rule. An inordinate emphasis is placed on man’s efforts; the doctrine of the sovereignty of God is diminished.

The new dominion mandate by control

Dominion theology is predicated upon three basic beliefs: 1) Satan usurped man’s dominion over the earth through the temptation of Adam and Eve; 2) The Church is God’s instrument to take dominion back from Satan; 3) Jesus cannot or will not return until the Church has taken dominion by gaining control of the earth’s governmental and social institutions.6 [emphasis added]

Al Dager, Vengeance Is Ours: The Church In Dominion

Dominion theology is a heresy. As such it is rarely presented as openly as the definitions above may indicate. Outside of the Reconstructionist camp, evangelical dominionism has wrapped itself in slick packages – one piece at a time – for mass-media consumption. This has been a slow process, taking several decades. Few evangelicals would recognize the word “dominionism” or know what it means. This is because other terminologies have been developed which soft-sell dominionism, concealing the full scope of the agenda. Many evangelicals (and even their more conservative counterparts, the fundamentalists) may adhere to tidbits of dominionism without recognizing the error. This is because dominionism has “crept in unawares” (Jude 4) to seduce an undiscerning generation.

To most effectively propagate their agenda, dominionist leaders first developed new ecclesiologies, eschatologies and soteriologies for targeted audiences along the major denominational fault lines of evangelical Christianity. Then the 1990s Promise Keepers men’s movement was used as a vehicle to “break down the walls”, i.e., cross denominational barriers for the purpose of exporting dominionism to the wider evangelical subculture.7 This strategy was so effective that it reached into the mainline Protestant denominations. Dominionists have carefully selected leaders to be trained as “change agents” for “transformation” (dominion) in an erudite manner that belies the media stereotype of southern-talking, Bible-thumping, fundamentalist half-wits.

The 3 sects of evangelical dominionism

There are three predominant sects (or movements) that propagate dominion theology which hold considerable influence over evangelicaldom.


The Kingdom of God must be advanced on Earth through hyper-spiritual “warfare” activities against the devil. A veritable supermarket of verbal and physical prayer techniques such as chanting, walks, and marches are employed in this effort. Believers are told their prayer power creates spiritual “canopies” over regions, preparing the way for “revival.” In this sense, prayer warfare is seen as preparatory work so that the other two movements can build the kingdom. Recently the contemplative prayer movement – which includes meditation, fasting, and labyrinths – has been brought into the spiritual warfare prayer “arsenal.” Prayer serves as a convenient decoy for covert operations. All three sects are utilizing massive statistical databanking resources (e.g., the World Prayer Center in Colorado Springs) and sophisticated psycho-social group manipulations to forge kingdom “transformation.” One key leader of this sect is Cindy Jacobs, who is closely associated with C. Peter Wagner (see below). Her website epitomizes the militant doctrines and practices of the spiritual warfare sect.

Prayer before fighting

Our calling is to be worshippers, warriors, and workers. We must first offer our lives as a living sacrifice in worship to God. From our worship will flow our intercession and warfare as we fight with weapons of righteousness in our right hand and in our left. Only after we have worshipped our God and fought the fight in the Spirit will we proceed to work in the harvest fields, advancing the Kingdom of God.8 [emphasis added]

Promoting these prayer warfare activities are hyper-charismatics from the “signs and wonders” movement, which include self-anointed, self-appointed “apostles” and “prophets” who are preparing to govern the world through their “New Apostolic Reformation.” This dominionist sect is a direct offshoot of the Latter Rain cult (also known as Joel’s Army or Manifest Sons of God).9 Chief architect of this movement for the past two decades is C. Peter Wagner, President of Global Harvest Ministries and Chancellor of the Wagner Leadership Institute. His spiritual warfare teachings have been widely disseminated through mission networks such as AD 2000, which was closely associated with the Lausanne Movement. A prominent individual connected to this sect is Ted Haggard, current head of the National Association of Evangelicals.10

The New Apostolic Reformation

Since 2001, the body of Christ has been in the Second Apostolic Age. The apostolic/prophetic government of the church is now in place. . . . [W]e began to build our base by locating and identifying with the intercessory prayer movements. This time, however, we feel that God wants us to start governmentally, connecting with the apostles of the region. God has already raised up for us a key apostle in one of the strategic nations of the Middle East, and other apostles are already coming on board. Once we have the apostles in place, we will then bring the intercessors and the prophets into the inner circle, and we will end up with the spiritual core we need to move ahead for retaking the dominion that is rightfully ours.11 [emphasis added]

C. Peter Wagner


The words “revival,” “reformation” and “transformation” now carry embedded dominionist connotations. “Fulfilling the Great Commission” (Matthew 28:18-20) no longer means spreading the Gospel message by speaking the Word of salvation from the Bible. The dominionist focus is placed upon the phrase making disciples, with an incorrect exegesis that is disconcertingly compulsory. Traditional mission evangelism, done one-on-one using the Bible, is being replaced with a slew of “kingdom building” corporate activities for cities, regions and nations. The disingenuous phrase “bless the nations” is often used to conceal dominionism. Dr. Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ International and Ralph Winter, founder of the U.S. Center for World Mission and editor of the Perspectives on the World Christian Movement curriculum (which has taught dominionism to an entire generation of missionaries), have been among the chief architects of this movement.12

Dominionism supplants biblical evangelism

“The Church must grow past the ‘Gospel of Salvation’ message and understand that it is only when we begin to implement the principles of the ‘Gospel of the kingdom’ that we will really begin to see change in lives and cities and nations. The Church has no understanding of this realm. . . The Church must grow up. . . . 13 [emphasis added]

Dale Neill, president of ICCC

Beyond Salvation

“. . . God’s concern goes beyond the salvation of individual people. His redemptive plan encompasses the healing and transformation of entire nations . . . . Nations are discipled as the church makes the invisible Kingdom visible by faithful obedience to God’s Word throughout culture–in every area of life, and every realm of society including the family, the community, the arts, sciences, media, law, government, schools, or business. . . .”14 [emphasis added]

Disciple the Nations

3.       PATRIOTIC AMERICAN movement:

Patriotic dominionists, most of whom are not Reconstructionists, teach that political action will advance the kingdom of God in America. Using the vehicle of Christian media, they have taught evangelicals for the past three decades that America is a Christian nation and needs to return to its roots. Almost every evangelical in the pew has been influenced in one way or another by this sect. Patriotic dominionist leaders and their organizations have been closely interlocked financially and politically with the conservatives from the political Right. The secular conservatives purport to uphold morality, which appeals to evangelicals. The combined force of conservatives and evangelicals flexes its political muscles in Washington. One of its most powerful leaders is James Dobson of Focus on the Family. Patriotic dominionism was widely disseminated through the activities of Jay Grimstead, founder of Coalition on Revival (COR). From its earliest inception COR managed to successfully bring together key leaders from all three dominionist sects, including the Reconstructionists, to promote the most ruthless doctrines of dominionism.15

Grimstead’s COR Steering Council letter, dated May 1993

1. The Kingdom of God was inaugurated and the King was installed and seated in the First Century A.D. and we need not wait for the King’s second coming to get the Kingdom started here on earth.

4. At this moment of history, all humans on earth, whether Jew or Gentile, believer or unbeliever, private person or public official, are obligated to bow their knees to this King Jesus, confess Him as Lord of the universe with their tongues, and submit to His lordship over every aspect of their lives in thought, word and deed.

5. Biblical evangelism according to the Great Commission of Matt. 28:18-20 is not truly accomplished unless that message of Christ’s lordship from point #4 above is given to the person being evangelized so that they know that an attempt at personal neutrality before King Jesus is sin and treason in this universe.16 [emphases added]

Dominionism goes global

Since the latter half of the 1990s the three major dominionists sects have openly converged into an ecumenical force. These three branches of dominionism are linked historically at many levels, and there is solid documentation to support the idea that the current convergence was planned and intentional.17

While Leftists focused their attentions on political dominionists in American politics and what was going on in Iraq, the three movements went global. This new confederation of dominionists has been rapidly advancing its kingdom across the globe through “economic, social, political and spiritual transformation.”18 To achieve this paradigm shift, the global dominionists have employed sophisticated psycho-social methodologies, statistical research, socio-economic development tools, marketing research, strategic planning, assessments, databanking and monitoring, and technical assistance. They are also aggressively forming alliances with national and international governments, corporations, individuals, private agencies, philanthropic groups and other entities. Below are some key examples of this rapid convergence around a global kingdom worldview.

1. Global “spheres.” Observers from the Left were infuriated when the Coalition on Revival political dominionists cranked out documents during the 1980s addressing a Christian worldview in seventeen “spheres” of life and ministry – education, health care, the family, the arts, sciences, law, media, government, business, etc. This is because COR didn’t just write a philosophical statement. COR “determined that it is mandatory for all Christians to implement that worldview in society, particularly as it applies to the dominionist interpretation of the Great Commission.”19 These spheres didn’t disappear when COR began to fade off the radar screen. They have a new life. The worldview sphere documents have now gone global by becoming incorporated into mission agendas. Mission groups are now partnering with national and international governments, business corporations, NGOs, humanitarian entities and others to build their kingdom in the cultural spheres of selected nations around the globe.

Mission incorporates COR’s spheres

The seven spheres of influence or 7 mountains of culture as they are sometimes called described below will help us shape societies for Christ. God gave us these handles to use in carrying out Matthew 28 and discipling nations for Him. We believe He is wanting all His people to see the importance of these seven areas and work in them to extend Christ’s reign throughout the earth. The Family & Health Care; Commerce, Science and Technology; The Church; Government; Education; The Media; The Arts, Entertainment and Sports20

Disciple the Nations

2. The 3-legged stool.

The dominionist’s kingdom must be advanced on Earth by gaining control of governments (State), utilizing business (Corporations) and partnering with social sector (Church) institutions. New bridges are being built based on triangular relationship between all three sectors of society. The Church is forming partnerships (or collaborations) with State and/or Corporate interests in order to implement dominion. Peter Drucker, the management guru, was instrumental in overseeing the implementation of this agenda – to create a three-legged “healthy society” globally – via Rick Warren of purpose-driven fame. Warren was mentored by Drucker, as were a number of other evangelical leaders such as Bob Buford of Leadership Network. Buford trained an entire generation of aspiring megachurch pastors in Drucker’s social philosophies. The megachurches are based on the Drucker corporate business model. Drucker’s ideas also undergird the faith-based (Church-State) movement which has been politically championed by the neoconservatives in Washington.21 Dominionism is significantly breaking down the walls between Church and Corporations (see point 4 below). In brief, the three-legged stool of dominionism looks like this:


STATE + CHURCH = Faith-based

CHURCH + CORPORATE = Fusion-the Merchant Church

Drucker’s 3-legged stool model

. . .[The Peter F. Drucker Foundation for Nonprofit Management], created ten years ago to honor Peter Drucker’s contributions to management and leadership, believes that a healthy society requires three vital sectors: a public sector of effective governments; a private sector of effective businesses; and a social sector of effective community organizations, including faith-based organizations. It furthers its mission to lead social sector organizations toward excellence in performance by providing educational opportunities and resources.22

Leadership Network

3. The phenomenon of Rick Warren.

Rick Warren has single-handedly accomplished more to bring about a public convergence between the three sects of dominionism than any other individual. Warren received his doctorate from Fuller Theological Seminary under the tutelage of his advisor, C. Peter Wagner of the spiritual warfare dominionists.23 Dubbed “America’s Pastor” by the media, he is now embarking on an aggressive marketing campaign to set up a model of Peter Drucker’s “healthy society” in Rwanda, ostensibly under the banner of missionary and charitable endeavors. Warren has launched a grandiose plan to “transform” Africa – to “cure AIDS,” “end poverty” and “fulfill the Great Commission.” Warren transcends evangelicalism. He easily moves in internationalist circles (Aspen Institute) and aligns himself with rock stars (Bono). Warren has audaciously called for a “Second Reformation” based upon his global P.E.A.C.E. Plan, which is a study in dominionism.24 Leftists who fret over Warren’s foray into AIDS25 may miss the more serious dominionist ramifications of his overall global plan. Warren intends to amass the world’s largest volunteer “army” of “one billion foot soldiers” to implement his global P.E.A.C.E. Plan.26

The global P.E.A.C.E. plan to make disciples

In addition to its message of compassion, the [Saddleback Church AIDS] conference sought to impart several other points emerging from Warren’s global P.E.A.C.E. plan.

Based on the Great Commission to make disciples (Matthew 28:18-20) and the Great Commandments to love God and to love our neighbors (Mark 12:28-34), the plan is Warren’s approach to attack what he calls the five “global giants” — spiritual emptiness, egocentric leadership, extreme poverty, pandemic diseases and illiteracy and poor education, by Planting churches, Equipping servant leaders, Assisting the poor, Caring for the sick and Educating the next generation. [emphasis added]27

“Involvement in AIDS crisis urged at Saddleback conference,” Baptist Press

4. Marketplace ministries.

Corporate business ventures are cloaking themselves in missionary garb to enter a nation and effect change. Creating an outpost for new corporate markets in undeveloped Third World countries, particularly those rich in natural resources, is being done in the name of “kingdom-building.” In order to establish a spiritual aura for these activities, a high-tech Global Day of Prayer was established in May 2005 by the Spiritual Warfare sect working together with Rick Warren.28 This annual event is designed to promote the dominionist agenda worldwide. Corporate “marketplace ministry” expansion is being done with claims of sustainable development, free-trade, and other community development activities that could screen the dominionist agenda. An influential marketplace mission organization is Transform World, which is one of the most patent examples of dominionism.29 Mission groups are taking up the quest for corporate expansion and financial gain by linking with business corporations, who are taking up the “mission” to expand their markets in the name of kingdom-building. Meanwhile, C. Peter Wagner has cooked up a new definition of ekklesia (Gk. church) to fuse the Church with the Corporate workplace.30

Marketplace Dominionism

What is required is a change of heart. The heart of the nation is the marketplace—the combination of business, education and government, the three arteries through which its life flows. If we take God’s power and presence to the marketplace we will see nations changed . . . .

To change a man you must first change his heart. This approach, of course, is typical of missionary organizations. Silvoso’s idea, though, is far more radical. Cities can be changed in nature. Countries can be redeemed. Entire cultures can be brought to “salvation.” The land itself, in fact, can be healed.

And such a miraculous change is brought about through one primary avenue: God working through the marketplace. . . .

The primary means to true revival, though, takes place first in the marketplace.31 [emphases added]

Business Reform interview with Ed Silvoso of Harvest Evangelism

The “business mission company”

To achieve its purpose, the business mission company must develop and invest in Great Commission efforts that are synergistic with and leveraged by the company’s presence in strategically selected markets. It must set standards for evangelism and discipleship, measure results, and evaluate results per dollar invested for every sphere of influence identified in the market analysis. Company spheres of influence and the spheres of influence of each team member are specific market segments targeted for impact…. Any parts of the company that do not produce to standards are pruned. An axe is laid to the root of those that do not produce at all.32 [emphasis added]

John Cragin, On Kingdom Business:  Transforming Missions Through Entrepreneurial Strategie

5. Militant rhetoric.

There is a notable increase in the stridency and urgency of “strategic level” prayer warfare rhetoric which is linked to global “transformation” (dominionism).33 False prophets regularly pump out new “prophecies” and “decrees” to shore up the kingdom mandate. These “prophecies” function like oracles – they are a major avenue for communicating “God’s plan” for the next step in kingdom-building. False apostles have been anointed, appointed as leaders of regions around the globe, and charged with wielding the king’s authority. The doctrines of the New Apostolic Reformation have been promulgated throughout the mission movement by C. Peter Wagner, Cindy Jacobs, Chuck Pierce, Bill Hamon, a group known as the “Kansas City Prophets,” the Vineyard Fellowship, and many others. At the highest echelons these organizations all have interlocking boards of directors. Two noteworthy internal organs for disseminating false prophecies and new doctrines include The Elijah List and Joel News.

A militant false prophecy

We are coming to the times when passive Christianity and passive Christians will cease to exist. There is a maturity, a discipline, and a divine militancy coming upon the people of God. Those who have succumbed to humanistic and idealistic theologies may have a hard time with this, but we must understand that God is a military God. The title that He uses ten times more than any other in Scripture is “the Lord of hosts,” or “Lord of armies.” There is a martial aspect to His character that we must understand and embrace for the times and the job to which we are now coming.34

Rick Joyner, “TAKING THE LAND”

6. Neoevangelical and neoconservative allies.

The December 2005 issue of Mother Jones magazine was devoted to examining the Patriotic dominionists. It included an article about the National Christian Foundation, a philanthropic group linked to neoconservative organizations. This brief article called attention to a vast network of interlocking boards of directors and financial ties between neoconservatives and neoevangelicals.35 The website explores Patriotic dominionist financial ties to neoconservative groups,36 but it does not delve into the considerable linkages between the other two sects and the neoconservatives. Some of the bonds between these individuals and organizations go back over half a century, and some connections are alarmingly anti-semitic.37 Corporate acts of charity, especially through the influence of the philanthropic groups, are supplanting the traditional doctrine of “let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth” (Matthew 6:3). Marketplace transformation is also forging many new political alliances. Dennis Peacocke of COR is an influential marketplace transformation leader who is also a member of the International Coalition of Apostles (the spiritual warfare dominionists).38 Peacocke, who easily moves in all three sects, has suggested changing global economic structures.39

The new “Apostles” move into governments

Apostle Jim Hodges took the stage on Wednesday evening to introduce an exciting new venture for FMCI: a permanent presence in Washington, D.C. called the International Leadership Embassy (I.L.E.). The I.L.E. will position FMCI more directly to affect our government, our nation, and world nations by establishing contacts with government officials, D.C. citizens, and international diplomats. The ILE will, further, facilitate on site intercession efforts in D.C., host visiting prayer teams, sponsor Kingdom oriented teaching for government officials, employees and interns, and Christian leaders.40 [emphasis added]

Federation of Ministers and Churches International

7. Whose kingdom come?

There has been a significant rise of cross-pollination between evangelical dominionists and New Age Theosophists.41 Since the late 1970s there has been a closeted fraternization between dominionists and Theosophists for the purpose of finding common ground for the future. Both groups seek to bring in a “Christ” figure to solve the world’s problems. Both groups have grand utopian plans to create “peace” on earth. During the past decade, the two groups began borrowing doctrinal terminologies from one another and working on common theologies. The events of 9/11 gave a new impetus to this effort.42 Jay Gary, who has been a leader within all three sects of dominionism has had close ties with the Theosophists43 and is adopting new theologies, including a hybrid of preterism called “transmillenialism.”44 Bob Buford of Leadership Network (mentioned in point 2 above) has been working since the mid-1990s to create a youth culture based on “emergent” theologies called the Emergent Church – a mixture of New Age paganism, eastern mysticism and evangelical dominionism.45 And Patriotic Dominionist leaders have long-standing, close ties with the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, who has his own messianic kingdom ambitions.46

“Christ’s” Law

The crime of separation, of division, of lawlessness must go from the world. All that hinders the manifestation of man’s divinity must be driven from our planet. My Law will take the place of separation.47

Maitreya the “Christ”

8. The stewardship deception.

The “Transformational Covenant”48 by Luis Bush is a key document which outlines the new theology of stewardship dominion. Bush has held very influential positions in the mission movement as a leader in AD2000, World Inquiry, and the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization. He now serves as the international facilitator of Transform World. By linking a reinterpreted Genesis 1 “stewardship of the earth” mandate to the reinterpreted Great Commission doctrine, there is a volatile new doctrine of dominionism doctrine rising. This “stewardship” mandate was actually first proposed as a deceptive strategy in the late 1970s by Jeremy Rifkin in his book The Emerging Order.49 Rick Warren and others have now picked up the theme.50 George Otis of the Sentinel Group (spiritual warfare dominionist), suggests that by taking dominion of the Earth (he calls it “transformation”), paradise can be restored (as in Genesis 1 before the Fall) – an old Latter Rain cult heresy that presents an alternative eschatology of dominion.51

“Cultivating the Great Commission Ecosphere”

EFMA exists to cultivate the Great Commission Ecosphere so that it bears good and abundant fruit and God is glorified among all people. To this end the Fellowship works in depth with members to enhance mutual effectiveness and increase capacity as we work to extend Christ’s Kingdom. EFMA works broadly within the mission community who share a commitment to Christ, the Scriptures, and obedience to God’s command to disciple the nations.52

Evangelical Fellowship of Mission Agencies

The Genesis 1 stewardship mandate

. . . [W]hen God created man, he gave man dominion over the earth. Adam relinquished man’s dominion by disobedience. Redemption and restoration of man’s dominion over the earth, as well as his reconciliation with God, was made possible by Jesus.53

International Christian Chamber of Commerce

9. Leftist dominionists.

Evangelical Leftists (Tom Sine, Ron Sider, Jim Wallis and others) have always hobnobbed with the dominionists.54 Many of the key Leftist dominionists have been coalescing around an agenda to eradicate world poverty, laboring with Rick Warren to implement the United Nations’ Millennium Development Goals. Micah Challenge is one of the key organizations operating in this realm. A number of international mission networking agencies have formed alliances around these mutual kingdom aspirations. Working to end poverty may seem laudable on the surface. But scratch the surface and dominionism appears.55 Charity is not what it seems. Charity is a vehicle to maneuver dominionism into the best possible international publicity spotlight. And altruistic appeals for charitable sacrifice are a mechanism to sign up recruits in the billion man army.

WEA, Micah Challenge and Wolfowitz

The Church is “God’s primary instrument of transformation within the local community,” says Tunnicliffe, chair of Micah Challenge Canada and international director of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA). Canadian churches and Christian organizations must evaluate what they’re doing to serve the poor. They must keep themselves informed about issues surrounding poverty, and strive to find meaningful, practical outlets for people to respond. . . .

While in Washington, the group also met with the new president of the World Bank, Paul Wolfowitz, who reportedly told the Christian leaders that the Church could become a more significant player in the role of responding to global poverty.

The World Bank, a source of financial and technical assistance to developing countries around the world, has traditionally worked with governments. But Tunnicliffe says they want to evaluate the possible role that could be played by the faith-based community in such work. A small body has been set up by the faith-based community to advise the World Bank in setting policy. The WEA has been asked to participate.56

10. The church militant.

Since 9/11, patriotic fervor has combined with the neoconservative goals, and there is a disturbing rise of actual military activity for “kingdom-building” purposes. This activity is especially alarming because it encompasses all three major dominionist sects. Dominionist cult leader Bill Gothard has set up paramilitary training camps for evangelical children.57 Christian Right leader Michael Farris, connected with Coalition on Revival (COR),58 is recruiting homeschoolers for CIA-type training at his Patrick Henry College.59 At one can see how the Army is recruiting homeschoolers, many of whom are active in the patriotic dominionist sect.

Campus Crusade, an international mission organization, asks for prayer “that we will accomplish our Military Ministry goal to change continents for Christ.”60

Dr. Hope Taylor, ministry director of International Leadership Embassy, Washington, D.C. (see quotation for point 6 above), recently wrote “The church has the mantle to execute the will of the King concerning the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism. This assignment must not be abrogated or left solely to the military. . . .”61

Dr. Richard Kirby, of the World Network for Religious Futurists, a hybrid of neoevangelicals and Theosophists has written, “We want to train up a school of prophets who will be able to listen to the fresh word of God and deliver it to the people. Perhaps one example of this is the work of the Religious Futurists group with the military and with NASA the space authority.”62

“The Shepherd’s Rod” false prophecy

From this posture we will be strengthened as a mighty warrior and equipped to encounter the plots of the adversary set against this generation. The Lord is a Warrior and we are to be clothed in His militant attributes as it relates to the enemy who dwells in heavenly places. . .

There will be times and seasons to hide ourselves in Christ and other times to be aggressive and militant in our posture. The seasons that we isolate ourselves with Christ is not for dormancy but to wait upon Him and minister to Him to gain His insight and blueprint for victory. . . .

There will be a marked escalation in the angelic activity surrounding the Church. Furthermore, this activity will carry a militant characteristic as Michael and the warring angels of Heaven are released to establish the design of Heaven in the earth. As in the days of Israel, the giants of the adversary are occupying the land of promise and must be displaced in order to access our inheritance. . . .

To experience the governmental release related to the dominion associated with His Kingdom design, we must also allow the Holy Spirit to equip us as “overcomers” clothed in garments of righteousness.63

Emerging Global Ethics

Fulfilling the kingdom mandate is seen as so critical that the “end justifies the means.” Rick Warren has advocated for a philosophy of “do whatever it takes” to achieve his global P.E.A.C.E. Plan.64 Putting forth the global hunger and AIDS crises as a rationale to further the dominion kingdom has proven to be a brilliant strategy. The new gospel of pragmatism, combined with emotive pleas for compassion, is superseding any ethical or doctrinal concerns about the legitimacy of the emerging Church-State-Corporate partnerships.

Pragmatic priorities

Eradicating global poverty for all is a key priority for Christians, but specific attention also needs to be paid to the scandal of inequality and deprivation within the world-wide Christian community, says Mennonite World Conference (MWC) executive secretary Larry Miller.

Mr Miller, writing in the latest issue of Courier, a multilingual MWC publication, supports the ‘Agape Call’ of the World Council of Churches and the ‘Micah Challenge’ of the World Evangelical Alliance, stating the biblical and theological case for involvement in the UN Millennium development goals to halve world poverty by 2015.

“What must be added to these calls – and cried out loudly – is a plea to overcome the disaster of poverty in the church”, he adds. . . .65

Evangelicals have traditionally adhered to the Gospel directive to function as “salt” (Matthew 5:13) and “light” (Matthew 5:14) in the world. This Scripture was not traditionally laden with dominionist connotations. What it means is that Christians, by their individual or church-based acts of compassion, can make a difference in the lives of people. And by a holy and righteous lifestyle that matches a biblical profession of faith, Christians can make a positive difference within their culture. Being “salt and light” also means that there is a duty to do good in the face of evil (Romans 16:19).

The Scripture speaks of a type of separation between Church and State that forbids unholy coalitions. When a financial Church-State question was posed by the chief priests and scribes to the Lord Jesus Christ, He answered, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things that be God’s” (Luke 20:25) While believers have a responsibility to obey the laws and rulers of the land (Romans 13), they are also required to “obey God rather than man” (Acts 5:29), especially when the truth of the Gospel message is at stake.

By engaging in this vast new dominionist alliance, the Christian witness has been compromised. The ability to function independently as directly accountable to God, while adhering to Biblical truth alone, has been sharply curtailed. The biblical charge to boldly speak the truth (e.g., Philippians 1:14, 1 Thessalonians 2:2) has been subrogated to the “never speak critically” mantras of the Rick Warren’s purpose-driven church covenants.66

The dominionist collaborations effectually function as a conspiracy against Scriptural truth (Jeremiah 11:9-10; Ezekiel 22:25-30).

The old doctrine

The kingdom of Christ is not a kingdom of this world, otherwise would his servants fight! It rests on a spiritual basis and is to be advanced by spiritual means. Yet Christ’s servants gradually slipped down into the notion that His kingdom was of this world and could be upheld by human power.67

Rev. Charles Spurgeon, circa 1880

Making merchandise

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, . . . And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:

(2 Peter 2:1a, 3a)

The Merchant Church

This kingdom being built is not of Jesus Christ OF the Bible. It is not FOR the Jesus of the Bible. It has nothing to do with Him, but everything to do with an antichrist zeitgeist that is frightening, appalling and massive in its build-up.

At the present time it is still possible for seekers after truth to access the old doctrines and old sermons in books and on the Internet. The time has nearly come when these traditional Gospel doctrines will be declared heretical and a threat to the false king and kingdom that are being set up.

The Bible speaks of a latter day heresy called “mystery Babylon” which is a merger of Commerce and Church. This unholy dominionist mixture – a modern-day alchemy – is what appears to be forming before our very eyes:

The global merchants

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies . . . .

And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble. And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots and slaves, and souls of men. (Revelation 18:2-3; 11-13)



Deborah (Discerning the World)

Discerning the World is an internet Discernment ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa that was founded by Deborah du Rand in 2008. Tom Lessing joined Deborah in May 2013. Tom Lessing founded the website “Waak en Bid/Watch and Pray” which was closed in 2013 and articles moved across to DTW.

57 Responses

  1. Charlie says:

    [It’s still legal – and always God-honoring – to air messages like the following. (See Ezekiel 3:18-19.) In light of government backing of raunchy behavior (such offenders were even executed in early America!), maybe the separation we really need is the “separation of raunch and state”!]

    In Luke 17 in the New Testament, Jesus said that one of the big “signs” that will happen shortly before His return to earth as Judge will be a repeat of the “days of Lot” (see Genesis 19 for details). So gays are actually helping to fulfill this same worldwide “sign” (and making the Bible even more believable!) and thus hurrying up the return of the Judge! They are accomplishing what many preachers haven’t accomplished! Gays couldn’t have accomplished this by just coming out of closets into bedrooms. Instead, they invented new architecture – you know, closets opening on to Main Streets where little kids would be able to watch naked men having sex with each other at festivals in places like San Francisco (where their underground saint – San Andreas – may soon get a big jolt out of what’s going on over his head!). Thanks, gays, for figuring out how to bring back our resurrected Saviour even quicker!

  2. Discerning The World says:

    You are correct. There will be a repeat of the days of Lot. And it is indeed another prophecy in the bible that is currently being fullfilled. I was thinking about it the other day, how bad was Sodom and Gomorrah exactly? I shudder to ponder further. God destroyed them with fire and brimstone, for their sin was such an abomination unto Him.

    But homosexuals have the exact same salvation on offer to them through our Lord Jesus who was a sacrifice for them, that His blood will wash away their sin, that they may be presented to God spotless. God does indeed love the world so much that He sent His only Son, BUT that love is only to those who ACCEPT His son, believe that he died for us and rose again, and genuinely repent of their sin that they are genuinely born again by God’s Holy Spirit.

    Those who do not believe, or refused to believe WILL perish. This is an unfortunate reality. As much as they want to deny it, it’s true.

    We in no way judge the person, but we do despise and judge their sin. We love them so much that we preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to them that they might be saved and receive eternal life.

  3. Melissa says:

    Only Jesus Christ can heal the broken hearted and set the captives free (Isa 61). And He can heal you step by step, like a onion layer by layer, because He created you, thus He knows how to heal you. The Lord is still setting free the individuals that is caught up in a homosexual lifestyle. All because of His grace and His love for us. (AdMo removed url)

  4. Daniel says:

    The passing of Prop 8 and Yes on 1 is indicative of exactly the kind of unholy dominionist alliance of which is spoken above (and reprinted below for your reference):

    “By engaging in this vast new dominionist alliance, the Christian witness has been compromised. The ability to function independently as directly accountable to God, while adhering to Biblical truth alone, has been sharply curtailed. The biblical charge to boldly speak the truth (e.g., Philippians 1:14, 1 Thessalonians 2:2) has been subrogated to the “never speak critically” mantras of the Rick Warren’s purpose-driven church covenants…This kingdom being built is not of Jesus Christ OF the Bible. It is not FOR the Jesus of the Bible. It has nothing to do with Him, but everything to do with an antichrist zeitgeist that is frightening, appalling and massive in its build-up.”

    By intruding into secular homosexual people’s lives with the Christian interpretation of the Holy Word of God, and relying upon lies such as the myth that we are pedophiles, going to live to be sixty, and into “gerbilling”, you have done more to separate people with same-sex attractions from God than any sinful act that we have committed will ever do. Just because you say Jesus is Lord does not mean you are sanctified by the blood of the lamb forever. You need to manifest the fruits of the spirit: faith, hope, and love.

    Passing laws that take away rights from others which you freely enjoy will not bring people closer to God. Shame on you and your anti-Christian acts! If Jesus is here, he would undoubtedly weep.

  5. Elmarie A says:

    >>You need to manifest the fruits of the spirit: faith, hope, and love.<<

    "manifest" ?? We cannot manifest fruits of the spirit. It is purely through the work of the Holy Spirit working in a saved person. And through that working a saved person produces the fruit of the spirit.

    Faith,hope and love is gifts of the Spirit not fruits see
    Galatians 5 below. Daniel, Take particular note of verses 16 and 17.

    Hmm.. Galatians 5 tells us what the fruits of the Spirit are, as in the Word of God. It also tells us what what things of the flesh are. By this one can clearly see what

    Just remember Daniel the fruits of the Spirit is a gift from God to believers, who accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and that He paid with His blood and died on the cross for our sins. If we truly repent our sins God will forgive us.

    Galatians 5 : 19-26 (Amplified Bible)
    16But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).

    17For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
    18But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
    19Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
    20Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
    21Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
    23Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[f]that can bring a charge].
    24And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
    25If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [g]we have our life in God, let us go forward [h]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
    26Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.

  6. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> By intruding into secular homosexual people’s lives with the Christian interpretation of the Holy Word of God, and relying upon lies such as the myth that we are pedophiles, going to live to be sixty, and into “gerbilling”, you have done more to separate people with same-sex attractions from God than any sinful act that we have committed will ever do. Just because you say Jesus is Lord does not mean you are sanctified by the blood of the lamb forever. You need to manifest the fruits of the spirit: faith, hope, and love.

    Passing laws that take away rights from others which you freely enjoy will not bring people closer to God. Shame on you and your anti-Christian acts! If Jesus is here, he would undoubtedly weep.

    So what you are saying is that murder and child molestation and everything else becomes ok because it’s enjoyable to the one participating it it? And you just ignore God’s Word on what He finds detestable and think that it’s ok because YOU want it to be. The Bible is very specific on sin: stealing, lying, murder, adultery, sexual imortality, etc, etc, etc. The law of the OT becomes written in your heart when you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and because the Holy Spirit comes to abide in one when they are born again you are convicted of sin and WILL NOT WANT to do these things and you will be regenerated (changed) by the God to stop living in perpetual sin.

    If you are genuinely saved you will know fully well that homosexuality is a sin and you will be ashamed and you will pray and repent and ask Jesus to deliver you from this act that He detests.

    If you are not genuinely saved you will think it’s ok and carry on, and insult God. Is the Bible just a waste of paper? So you pick and chose the pages of the Bible you think are ok and throw out the rest? Of course, because it suits you.

    Jesus IS ALIVE, He looks down on you from His throne. You don’t have to wait for Him to come back to know you are in deep trouble because you rebel against the One who created you and told you that this is whe way He wants you to live because it pleases Him and any other way makes Him turn His head away from you. God is Holy, sin is what drives you away from Him. If you really care for Jesus Christ you will want to turn around, change your ways and come back to Him.

    Read the Prodical Son. The son was the one who returned to his father. You are the one who has the choice to return or not.

    PS, and if you think that homosexuality is one of the fruits manifest by the Holy Spirit then you need to seriously double check which god you are following. Because the One and Only Living God of the scriptures who’s Son is Jesus Christ tells you clearly the that He finds this detestable.

    Please quote scripute from the Bible where God says that homosexuality is ok, and also please quote scripture where He says it’s not ok.

  7. Daniel says:

    Elmarie, oh Pharisee, regardless of the words that I use and the lengthy passages that you can quote from memory, you do not have the right in this country to force “every knee to bow and every tongue confess.” Love is expressed, not defined.

  8. Daniel says:

    Deborah, the 1946 Revised Standard Version of the Bible was the first word to use the word “homosexual”. The word never appeared before because there probably wasn’t even a concept of heterosexual or homosexual.

    Out of over thirty thousand verses, the Bible presents believers with only six passages related to homosexual acts…pick and choose!

    Christians, once sanctified by the blood of the Lamb, are no longer under the law, so please understand why I won’t mention those here.

    Believers should take a look at Paul’s words in the Septuagint at 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 for mention of what someone might be tempted to characterize as homosexual activity.

    The words that Paul uses in these two Scriptures are arsenokoitai and malakoi. Arsekoitai has no agreed upon scholastic translation in Greek Koine, because Paul was the first one to use the word. It only appears later in further religious writings, and then it is used to to describe an act between a man and a woman.

    Today’s believers rely upon exegesis from people of their own persuasion to help them understand those two words. What does the the Holy Word of God say about exegesis? “He who is of God hears God’s words.” (John 8:47)

    Romans 1:27 is the sole verse in the entire NT that condemns homosexual acts and associates such acts with having a reprobate mind. I think Paul gives us an idea of why such acts would lead to a reprobate mind in Galatians, but I would also think we could look at Colossians 2:20-23 for further guidance as well: “self-imposed worship…false humility and their harsh treatment of the body” does not lead to a forsaking of carnality, which is what most conservative Christian folks today recommend for homosexuals to reach God.

    And one scripture is not enough to completely outlaw a kind of behavior as non-Biblical! If one scripture were enough, you and I should talk about 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, or 2 Tim 3:6-7.

    Again, we need to rely upon exegesis, and most purveyors of exegesis, just as is the case with dominionism, are perverting the scriptures to build character in their flock and perpetuate the belief that their own internally held disgust is blessed by God. I believe that God looks at the disgust which so many hold in their hearts towards homosexual acts and He condemns it, because it keeps them from reaching out unconditionally to those within the church who are in need of it the most. So much for fellowship, not to mention witnessing to unbelievers!

  9. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> perverting the scriptures to build character in their flock and perpetuate the belief that their own internally held disgust is blessed by God. I believe that God looks at the disgust which so many hold in their hearts towards homosexual acts and He condemns it, because it keeps them from reaching out unconditionally to those within the church who are in need of it the most. So much for fellowship, not to mention witnessing to unbelievers!

    Oh Daniel. You have so confused the entire gospel. Christians love, it’s the sin we don’t love. Just like a certain sin I once loved (before I was saved) after I was saved I hated carrying on with this particular sin, it make me feel so repulsed, so I prayed and prayed and repented and Jesus set me free. You are missing the point completely: Everyone on this planet has the freedom to chose: you make your choice and then you live with the consequences of that choice.

    If you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you, you would have conviction in your life that this lifestyle is wrong. Never mind the lifestyle but look at others around you, pornography, swearing/cursing, vulgar sex talk, nothing is natural. Then the diseases associated with that lifestyle. If this was what God wanted you would not have all this black black baggage to carry.

  10. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I am presuming by that above statement that you know nothing of the bible.

    you do not have the right in this country to force “every knee to bow and every tongue confess.”

    I must say…. this is the quote of the year. I shall put that up under my quote of the year page.

  11. Daniel says:

    Deborah, you continue to hold onto your disgust towards what is natural and call your disgust with someone’s predilection a sign of the Holy Spirit. Your disapproval and assumptions that homosexual behavior is always a choice and will result in disease is an assumption that is not Biblical but based on prejudice. 2 Timothy says that some cannot endure sound doctrine, and it is you that cannot endure sound doctrine. Where can you provide me with sound doctrine that homosexuality is not God’s law?

    That you try to justify your beliefs using Scripture and the disgust of your friends is an abomination. Your condemnation drives people away from God and the truth of His unconditional love for all who accept him.

    I stand by my words that you cannot force anyone to bow to God and confess Jesus. Only God draws people to Him. This is basic Christian theology.

  12. Elmarie A says:


    This is what the Word of God says. So we may not bow our knees or confess to anyone but God.

    Ephesians 3:14 Amplified Bible
    For this reason [ seeing the greatness of this plan by which you are built together in Christ], I bow my knees before the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Romans 14:11 Amplified Bible
    For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God [acknowledge Him to His honor and to His praise].

    Psalm 95:6 Amplified Bible
    O come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker [in reverent praise and supplication].

    Discussion over and out.

  13. cecilia says:

    my humble contribution:
    Again I’m probing the question: when someone hears the plain gospel as it is, about the Lord Jesus Christ be the Savior or souls, and receive this redemption, the Holy Spirit abides in them, yes? when they can lay their hands on a Bible, they read it as it is, yes? – WITHOUT any exegesis, no Hebrew / Greek words running on the sideline, no concordance to ‘explain’ what it supposedly mean. so how come many people in our days totally group the Word into exegesis and eisegesis; when our main message is supposed to be to unsaved people, who obviously do not have the said outlayings at their disposal.

    I’m all for those big words… I love languages, I love to go to the origin. But the plain Bible uses words like “sexual immorality”, “men shall not lie with men”, “men burn in lust against each other”, and so on.

    So someone of not so much intellect understands these “terms”, and adhere to it, therefore are obedient to the Word of God.

    No matt

  14. Daniel says:

    I agree that the Holy Spirit is the one who influences. “He who is of God hears God’s words.” (John 8:47). It should not be other people’s disgust or disapproval, but the Holy Spirit and the Holy Word of God.

    One does not need to be pro-gay or feminist however, to recognize that the Septuagint contains only one Scripture (Romans 1:27) that spells out plainly that homosexual acts are associated with carnality and separation from God. In this instance, Paul was talking about developing a relationship with God that transcends the lust of the flesh. As you probably know, Paul would have preferred that all Christians be celibate to strengthen their relationship with God, but recognized that some were not capable of such discipline (1 Corinthians 7:9). And Paul recognized that such discipline could in fact hinder a connection to God (Colossians 2:20-23). When considering the reality that most “ex-gays” are celibate, I think it is helpful to remember the intent of these Scriptures. We need to remain steadfast against those who would substitute false humility and refraining from sensual indulgence with a spiritual relationship with God.

    I have read elsewhere here about the OT and how the law is written on our hearts when we are sanctified. There are many dictates in Leviticus which we as Christians do not follow (i.e., not wearing polyester, eating shellfish). Maybe we should, and some do (such as the Hasidim and those who rely upon Paul’s exhortation to not sin in Romans 6:14-15), but again, it depends on what Scriptures that you are moved by the Holy Spirit to obey. Have you eaten shellfish? If you are a woman, have you spoken in church? Then you have sinned, even under grace. There is no getting around the fact that we all take from the Bible only certain portions.

    In my opinion, the point of the Protestant reformation is that we should take from the Bible what God directs us to take, and not what someone else asks us to take. And that is why I initially responded to this post, because dominionism is an abomination, it continues idolatry of the exegesis to the point that the exegesis because government law, and that is an abomination!

  15. Elmarie A says:


    >>Oh yes, in America a new Bible Translation was printed (I think last year or so), which do not offend homosexual people and even the “left-handed” people has some correctional words in there AND those who think God is a “mother-god” also (mostly in mind for the people who was hurt by men or their dads…).<<>exegesis and eisegesis<>>So someone of not so much intellect understands these “terms”, and adhere to it, therefore are obedient to the Word of God.<<<<

    I can relate to it. I have not so much intellect. Just plain understanding of His Word. Thank you Cecilia.

    Just wondering will we still be able to buy an original Bible as we know them, as the world progress towards the One world religion.

    Thank you Cecilia.

    my two cents worth.

  16. Elmarie A says:


    Thank you!

  17. cecilia says:

    but then again Daniel, it depends on from which Bible you “take it”. You yourself actually led this comments in the direction of homosexuality. the last sentence in your comments on Feb 09, (you can correct me if need be), tells me that you are not for Christianity in the or as the Government? but then Daniel, if you go to some heathen nations, they govern by their own ‘natural’ laws and impose strict punishments if not obeyed. there are many tribes still who are definitely NOT Christian, yet kill anyone who just hints in the homosexual direction. why would you then just “hold it against” Christians? so when exactly can we use the word “abomination” – only when Christianity is involved? why?

    as for your comment on February 8th, 2010 at 5:24 am
    >> “By intruding into secular homosexual people’s lives with the Christian interpretation of the Holy Word of God…”
    I thought only ‘Christians’ read and adhere to the Word of God? Are there non-christians who can actually ‘interpret’ the Word of God? yet the Word of God says we can do this only by His Holy Spirit, which means we must be ‘born again of God’ to Have the Holy Spirit who will teach us, lead us into all truth… etc. (e.g. 1 Corinthians 12:3)

  18. cecilia says:

    as to Dominionism, they held a big Conference in Knoxville in Sept 2009. I copy (quote) part of the e-mail that went out as advertisement.
    “But guess what?! God intends for you to be the head and not the tail; above and not beneath; a victor and not a victim! God is raising up a people in the earth who know they are destined for victory and called to live a life of abundance. Even though storms of all kind may rage around the world, God has a Body of people in the earth who can weather every storm and stand strong as over-comers. The Body of Christ will not only stand strong, but also advance the Kingdom right in the middle of the storm.”
    “You will be equipped to fulfill your destiny and receive revelation and impartation to breakthrough into your divine destiny! Of course, we will also be saturated in the presence and glory of God as we worship together with JoAnn McFatter and Vince Gibson.”
    this is their language, this is their setup. I don’t agree with Dominionism. fullstop.

  19. Elmarie A says:


    >>Elmarie, oh Pharisee, regardless of the words that I use and the lengthy passages that you can quote from memory, you do not have the right in this country to force “every knee to bow and every tongue confess.” Love is expressed, not defined.<>>You need to manifest the fruits of the spirit: faith, hope, and love.<<

    and the I said <>>>

    Then I gave some verses from the Bible to help you understand.

    If You want to call me names and launch attacks here, It is on your conscience . I was just offering understanding. I did not force you to quote on this site did I???? You where very unclear as in above quote and it seems you misunderstand, that Love and Fruits of the Spirit are one and the same thing, right, well I just gave you sound clarity on the matter.

    …….sigh…….oh please.(DTW please insert the sound)

  20. Daniel says:

    Elmarie, I am not sure what is unclear about that statement. No government can force every knee to bow and every tongue confess. Only G_d can.

    By imposing laws from the Old Testament, and enforcing its own definition of Christianity in all of the population, dominionism attempts to equate G_d with government, and enforce a covenent that He made with his people upon the whole world.

    This is a kind of idolatry. Idolatry is an abomination (Deuteronomy 7:25).

    It’s as simple as that.

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    No man will make you bow to God. No man can save you. Only God can save you. IF YOU OBEY HIS RULES. And you will BOW before God one day whether you like it or not.

    Homosexuality is a SIN. I do not hate homosexuals. I just don’t like what they do. I will never advocate hurting a homosexual or anything of the kind. But I will stand up and say it’s a sin.

    The article above is written about a Christian cult movement based on Dominionism and I am anti this christian cult movement. Does that mean though that homosexuality is not a sin anymore? No.

    Anyhow, you don’t need to ask me if SEXUAL IMMORTALITY of anykind is a sin, you can ask Jesus Christ directly by reading His Word correctly.

  22. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I agree totally. It boggles the mind.

    But then when a mind is not seeking after the Gospel they will find any excuse under the sun to disobey.

  23. Daniel says:

    I am glad that you think dominionism is a sin. I pray that you will see that confusing your personal disgust with a gift I have received from God (the power to experience His blessings through committed intimacy with someone of my own sex) is also a sin (2 Peter 1:20). Just because the majority of the church thinks an activity is wrong based on an interpretation of the Bible does not make an activity a sin either (2 Timothy 4:1-5).

    The church, Catholic and Protestant and Restorationist alike, has historically been avoidant of the voice of the Holy Spirit many many times, beginning with the Crusades and the Inquisition all the way up to slavery and women’s rights, and now in Uganda. Each time, they used their interpretation of the Holy Word of God to oppress and kill in the name of their ideology, not as a result of the urgings of the Holy Spirit. As the Bible says, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). All includes the church and government, in my humble opinion.

  24. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> I pray that you will see that confusing your personal disgust with a gift I have received from God (the power to experience His blessings through committed intimacy with someone of my own sex)

    A gift from God? No. Go read your bible.

  25. Daniel says:

    Yes, I was chosen to be who I am. What does the Bible say about me?

    It says that in heaven, all of the stones of the city, even the dust, even gay people, moves the Lord (Psalms 102:14).

    The Bible says that God’s ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

    It says that for those who love God, all things (ALL THINGS) work together for the good, for the glory of God (Romans 8:28).

    But some are under self-deception, particularly with regards to homosexuality. They confuse their own feelings with the Scripture, which has nothing to say about loving, committed homosexual relationships. Under the deceit of self-righteousness and condemnation, these folks have hardened hearts (Hebrews 3:13). But not to worry, even with a hardened heart, God is patient and still loving us, still waiting for us to return to his unconditional love (2 Peter 3:9).

    I pray that your eyes are opened, Deborah.

  26. Elmarie A says:


    You said >>>Elmarie, I am not sure what is unclear about that statement. No government can force every knee to bow and every tongue confess. Only G_d can.<<<<>>By imposing laws from the Old Testament, and enforcing its own definition of Christianity in all of the population, dominionism attempts to equate G_d with government, and enforce a covenent that He made with his people upon the whole world.<<<<<

    No one can impose or enforce anything on you. Oh Oh Daniel it is what is in your heart.

    Please take Deborah's advise, and mine too and read your Bible.

  27. Elmarie A says:


    Stop !! twisting the Word of God to suit you!!

  28. Daniel says:

    Whose Word of God is it, Elmarie? Is it mine? Is it yours?

    No it is Gods… Read it and read it with prayer (2 Chronicles 7:14).

  29. cecilia says:

    Daniel, this is NOT a blog discussing homosexuality. The point of discussion was and still is (believe it or not!) “Dominionism and the Rise of Christian Imperialism”.
    So be a good person now and drop your pose and go comment on a site/blog your argument is applicable to.
    now THIS (your comment) is a perfect example of eisegesis = Eisegesis (from the Greek root εις, meaning into, in, among) is the process of misinterpreting a text in such a way that it introduces one’s own ideas, reading into the text.

  30. Daniel says:

    Dominionism has a direct impact on homosexuals in Uganda, Cecilia.

    You can question my faith, just as I am sure folks question the faith of their brothers and sisters in countries that are under dominionist rule, such as Uganda. Gays and lesbians there are to put to death, thanks to an eisegistic interpetation of Leviticus 20:13. Might not be much to you, since you are sanctified by the blood of the lamb in your own eyes, but this means much to me, and it should be to all true Christians of the world.

  31. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Ok, firstly, the Bible says though shalt not KILL. So putting to death homosexuals already shows that those calling themselves Christian are NOT. Great problem 1 solved.

    2. Homosexuality is still a sin.

    3. You feel the need to justify that what you are doing is correct. If you know rightly well that what you are doing is pleasing to God, then stop trying to tell us that it’s ok. The thing is, deep down, you know it’s not right Daniel, this is why you are here tying to change our minds.

    Do you have the conviction of the Holy Spirit in your life over this issue? Do you have your heart telling you that it’s not right even though it makes you happy? You know what’s going on in your heart Daniel, you know… make your choice once and for all.

    You can’t call yourself a Christian and live in this sin. Just as Dominionists can’t murder homosexuals and call themselves Christian. Just like a preacher can’t steal from his congregation and an call himself Christian. Just as a pastor commits adultery cant call himself a Christian. It’s like practising white magic and going reading to your bibledaily and then calling yourself a Christian. You can’t. It’s all a lie, you are lying to youself, but worst of all you are lying to GOD.

    You know you are lying to yourself, you live under bondage because of what you are doing. Jesus gives us a sound mind and our yoke is light. You are not living under the peace and joy and happiness of Jesus Christ.

    Please read your bible in context and in light that sexual immorality is a sin, accept Jesus Christ as your saviour, tell Him you don’t want to live the way you are living, tell Him that you want to change, repent, ask Him to deliver you from this wickedness you are partaking in. Let Jesus come into your life and cleanse you with His Blood that He spilt for you and wash you clean. Change your life around, cut of all ties from homosexuality. Live by God’s Word and His Word only and not by what men tell you ‘is’ His Word when it’s not – for they have distorted it for their own means.

    If you love the real Jesus Christ of the Bible, the Son of God with all your heart you will know that the Holy Spirit has been speaking to you and you have to listen to Him. If you refuse, your sin will drive a rift between you and God and it will get bigger and bigger the further you delve into sin.

    What other strange beliefs have you picked up along the way that sympathise with the homosexual lifestyle? If you have not yet, you certainly will because once false doctrine leads to another. God views all sin equal. Many are shocked at this. How can telling lies be equal to murder and murder be equal to homosexuality and equal to adultery and equal to being a con-artist and equal to being a common thief. Because each one is all based on disobedience and lies and the wages of sin is death.

  32. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Whose Word of God is it, Elmarie? Is it mine? Is it yours?

    No it is Gods… Read it and read it with prayer (2 Chronicles 7:14).

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

    This verse convicts you Daniel.

    What do you think happened at Sodom and Gomorrah Daniel? What do you think the days of Noah were like Daniel that God brought a flood to wipe out the world?

  33. Elmarie A says:


    Thank for the clarity on this one.

    I do hope you read and understand Deborah’s long comment.

  34. Daniel says:

    Deborah, Problem 1 is not solved. If Uganda passes a law to kill homosexuals or even imprison us for life, in the name of the Bible, that is detestable to God. What is being done about this by Discerning the World?

    Problem 2: I am here to bear witness to the Christ that is within me. I see the disgust in your heart that you harbor towards my sexuality, and the assumptions that come out of that disgust. Ultimately, from my perspective, it is your disgust, not obedience to God’s Word, that motivates you to tell me that I am disobedient to God, that I need justification, and that I am lying to myself.

    I am guarding my heart, because it is the wellspring of my life (Proverbs 4:23). God determines the affections of my heart. I love men, and believe that in a committed life-long relationship with a man, I learn more about God.

    The majority of Christians today are attempting to use shame and condemnation to hold hostage the affections of gays and lesbians, and such shame and condemnation has now gotten codified into law: in little domininist tremors, such as prop 8, and now a much bigger threat looms in Uganda. None of this is Biblical, and it is a result of a narcissistic Christianity, a perennial self-righteousness that we’ve seen before in the US, in the temperance movement.

    Such government sanctioning of collective paroxysms of disgust will do more to alienate folks from God than same-sex attraction or alcoholism ever has.

  35. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    You are pushing you luck. I already wrote an article on the Uganda issue. Killing is wrong. Homosexuality is STILL A SIN. You are tying to argue your same point from different angles and it’s not working.

    You didn’t answer my question regarding the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah.

  36. Daniel says:

    @Deborah: You are under no obligation to respond to me and you have done so. I am grateful to you for your willingness to participate.

    After a little searching, I found your article ( Would you reject a revised Uganda Bill that calls for life imprisonment and reparative therapy of homosexuals? or is this not a “letter that would kill”? (2 Cor. 3:6)

    Do you think Ezekiel 16:49-50 and Genesis 6:5 answers your question about Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah? I certainly do. I don’t think that has anything to say about committed, Christian homosexual relationships.

  37. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> You are under no obligation to respond to me

    Apparently this comment of yours only refers to me and not you. When you answer my BIBLICAL question on the days of Noah or Sodom and Gomorrah I will carry on…let me help you because the verses you quoted do not explain what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.

    God destroyed the people because they became so wicked and the sin was rampant homosexuality. You can try change the Word of God to suit yourself, you can delete it, replace it, take verses here and there to suit yourself, you can tear out the pages, re-write the bible, burn the bible, persecute all who believe in the Word of God, you can do whatever you want but you will never change what God SAID.

    Homosexuality is your choice. If you want to be that way, be that way. Do not make me condone what you do. I never will. Should homosexuals be imprisoned? No. Should they be killed? No. Should they be held responsible for spreading HIV to others knowing their status and refusing to tell the other? Yes.

    Will homosexuality get it’s way? Yes. Why? Because God says… that the end times will be just like the days of Noah. Do I hate you? Never. Do I dislike you? Never. Do I love you the Biblical Christian way? Of course, otherwise I would not tell you what you are doing is not godly and as I said before you know in your heart that it’s not.

  38. Daniel says:

    I am glad that you follow the Bible and choose to relate with me. Sometimes evangelism is rebuking, reproving and exhorting (2 Timothy 4:1-8).

    As I stated before, the Word of God (Ezekiel 16:49-50 and Genesis 6:5) tells us about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah and the time before Noah. With regards to those two instances, the Word of God doesn’t mention homosexuality. Did you read those chapters and verses?

  39. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    It is abundantly clear that homosexuality was the wickedness. The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the Lord and two angels coming to speak with Abraham. The Lord reiterated His promise to Abraham that he would have a son through Sarah. The LORD also informed Abraham that “the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.” Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the Lord to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham’s nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom.

    Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, “Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.’” The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then “the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities — and also the vegetation in the land.”

    The men of Sodom and Gomorrah, thinking that the visiting angels were men, wanted to have sex with them. Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. While the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable, that clearly was not all. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah desired to perform homosexual gang rape on the angels. Also, God never declared inhospitality to be an abomination to Him, while Leviticus 18:22 makes God’s view of homosexuality clear: “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”

    While Sodom and Gomorrah were surely guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.

  40. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Homosexuality at Sodom and Gamorrah

    Jude 1:7 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Going after strange flesh is explain here in Proverbs 7:5 and Romans 1:26-27:

    Proverbs 7:5 5 That they may keep you from the immoral woman, From the seductress who flatters with her words.

    Romans 1:26-27 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    Of course Fire and Brimstone is not going to rain on homosexuals like Benny Hinn once prophecied *shudder* but the fire and brimstone that fell down is reference to the fires of hell. And that Homosexuality is an Abomination to God and since Sodom and Gomorrah has not changed His mind.

    2 Thessalonians 1:8
    8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  41. Daniel says:

    Thank you for sharing those Scriptures. With regards to Sodom and Gomorrah, did you read Ezekiel 16:49-51? It states specifically that the sin of Sodom was being “arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned.” I am reporting to you the words of the Bible. I urge you to not overlook the words that are so plainly stated for all of us.

    The words “sexual immorality”, “adulteress” and “strange flesh” could refer to homosexual acts, but it requires eisegesis to make that assumption. It really depends on how disgusted the reader is in the first place with homosexual acts whether they will see “strange flesh” as referring to homosexual acts. But literally “strange flesh” does not equal homosexuality in the strictest, dictionary definition.

    The Koine word commonly used to describe folks who participated in homosexual acts during the time of Paul’s letters was androkoitai. That word does not ever surface in the Septuagint.

    Romans 1:26-27 does refer to homosexual acts. Romans 1 is talking about being in rebellion, and what happens when we give into the lust of the flesh instead of submitting to God. Romans 1 also refers to heterosexual acts, outside of marriage (ie fornication) If gay marriage had existed in the time of Paul, Paul would have know that committed gay relationships can serve to bring glory to God, to help the participants to submit to God’s plan, and he would have supported them.

  42. cecilia says:

    NO-ONE CAN SPEAK FOR PAUL or anybody else, for that matter!

  43. cecilia says:

    >>> “Daniel, February 14th, 8:13 pm

    Deborah, Problem 1 is not solved. If Uganda passes a law to kill homosexuals or even imprison us for life, in the name of the Bible, that is detestable to God. What is being done about this by Discerning the World?”

    what are YOU doing about this, Daniel?

  44. Daniel says:

    Good question, cecilia. I am not doing enough. I have written emails, including one that was prompted by Andrew Marin and Warren Throckmorton, but I should be doing more. What are you doing about it?

  45. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Cecelia and I discussed this and we felt that the need to do something about the massive human rights abuses in ever country across the world was important. In China, Chinese people are imprisoned and murdered by the thousand daily for just ‘thinking’. In South Africa we are the hub for child trafficking – and we thought this was also more important than Uganda. Then we have Zimbabwe where millions of people are being slaughtered and we decided that Uganda could wait. The plight of people imprisoned and killed in North Korea for wanting just be ‘human’ was also something we had to weigh up.

    If you have not noticed Daniel the entire world is evil beyond evil and Christianity is not the problem. Sin is the problem. One sin leads to another sin, and another…

    Now please, this argument is getting ridiculous. If you want to remain homosexual then do so, but do not tell me you are Christian. Pick another religion that is happy to accept sexual immorality and then you wont need to feel compelled to explain why what you are doing is ok. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

  46. Elmarie A says:

    DTW said
    >>Now please, this argument is getting ridiculous.<<<

    I agree with DTW please listen now Daniel!! Surely there are web sites where you can fight for what you believe in please rather join them. Your way of choosing how to live your life remains sad. Fact remains we will pray for you.

    Fact is, you can surely not expect us to justify your way of living it is just absurd.

  47. cecilia says:

    believe it or not Daniel, I’m involved with humanitarian work; mainly focused on South Africa. Over and out.

  48. Daniel says:

    I agree that there are many things wrong with the world, but I am not nihilistic. I still have faith hope and love.

    I think eisegesis is the problem. You cannot rely upon Romans 1:27 and those other scriptures, anymore than you can rely upon 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 2 Timothy 3:1-7 to generalize about godly women, or Philemon 1:21 to generalize about slavery. I urge you to pray and think before you read me the “party line”. I think you bring your disgust towards my sexuality to the reading of God’s Word, and refuse to discard it even when the Bible does not support it. Fact is that you miss out on the beauty of what God has made perfect in Him. Galations 3:28 says what I believe to be true. In Him, there is no distinction between man or women, jew nor gentile, in bondage or free, only Jesus. Same goes for gay and straight. I pray that someday you see that in some of your gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

    I will stand with you when it comes to Uganda, and I will support work that you do to eliminate oppression in China and North Korea. If I could join an email list on your website, I would, but I don’t see one on here.

  49. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


  50. Amanda says:


    In Him, there is no distinction between man or women, jew nor gentile, in bondage or free, only Jesus. Same goes for gay and straight.

    And murderer and murdered? How do you determine that it is wrong of the government to murder gays?

    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.
    (Romans 13:1-4)

    The Bible says:

    You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    (Leviticus 18:22)

    You say love makes it okay. The next verse says:

    And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion.
    (Leviticus 18:23)

    I love my dog. Should I not be allowed to marry my dog? What about my mother or my father? Would Temple prostitution done lovingly in service to the Lord be a sin?

  51. cecilia says:

    DTW, just want to ‘help’ Daniel – Daniel, google-search Avaaz
    go read:
    not so much for the rules as for what this blog’s purpose is.

  52. Daniel says:

    The New Testament doesn’t mention rape, so does that mean that rape is ok? Come on, now Amanda. Your question is a legalistic question, befit for a Pharisee.

    Deuteronomy 22 mentions a circumstance under which rape is acceptable, but we know that RAPE IS WRONG under ANY circumstance. If a woman is a virgin, committing adultery, or unmarried, it makes no difference. We all agree here, I hope, that no means no.

    Similarly, with sex between human and animal or parent and child, I would assume that human decency prevails regardless of any such mention of such sex in the New Testament.

    Just because the Bible isn’t explicit about moral issues that confront us today, doesn’t mean that we can’t use Scripture to come to conclusions. We must always question those conclusions, however, I think, because the Bible isn’t explicit. I submit that this is the truly humble approach to the Word of God, and a good strategy for avoiding eisegesis.

    With regards to Romans 13:1-4, how does this Scripture tie into Mark 12:17?

    Were the Scriptural motivations for Dietrich Bonhoeffer choice to resist his government valid? You might know this already, but Bonhoeffer was an evangelical Christian who was executed in WWII Germany for the attempted assassination of the leader of that country at that time. He was an evangelical in the same vein as John Newtown, who found in the Word of God a reason to stand with the oppressed and fight against the laws of his time.

    I think we need more brave evangelicals like Bonhoeffer and Newtown to come forth and stand for what they believe is right.

  53. Elmarie A says:


  54. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I have no idea what bible you are reading, but one thing is for sure is that it’s been twisted by yourself into something perverted.

    This discussion is over.

  55. terri says:

    there are none so blind as those who will not see. the relevance of the attitude of many Christians toward homosexuals in the comments section re: dominionism is crystal clear to me. of course, i’m a sister to a gay brother, child of an uberChristian mother who has prayed every night since she learned Tim was gay that if he was “really” gay that he would die.
    this reveals nothing about God’s views, and everything about how irrational are the views of many Christians. now, were i to borrow the conservative strategy, i would say that there is NO way my mother could have that attitude and be a Christian. a Christian can’t continue in sin and be a Christian, right? but no…that only seems to apply to certain sins-or transgressions-or things which make some Christians go “ewww….”

    Daniel gave you the actual biblical quote that gave the reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha-surprise surprise, it was what was in their hearts, not what they were doing with their naughty bits. actually, what has always horrified me about that passage was that Lot was considered a righteous man-and how did he back down the horde of oversexed rabblerousers? why, by offering his virgin daughters, young and untouched…nice of God to intervene, but you’d think he could have commented on the offering up of the children to be raped, don’t you?
    well, no. because back then that didn’t matter, virgin daughters were their father’s property. in Lot’s culture giving up the guests was a heinous sin, giving up his daughters a sacrifice he had the right to make.
    God looketh on the heart. as repulsed as I personally am by what Lot was willing to do, God saw his heart. Only God can do this.
    therefore, knowing as you do now if you did not before the FACT that the very mention of homosexuality in the NT dates from the 1940s, and everything else daniel mentioned-his facts and his scripture are all accurate-how dare you PRESUME to say he can’t be a Christian because he is committing what in your subculture is a sin?
    Lot was a righteous man, and was more than willing to allow his two young daughters to be gang-raped-THAT’S Biblical morality. his righteousness was what was in his heart. you don’t know, can’t know, what’s in someone else’s heart. so stop trying to usurp God’s place. you’re not equipped.
    and as not usurping God is pretty much the focus of this article, i feel i’ve been fairly on-topic.
    be well, all.

  56. Elmarie A says:


    Daniel gave you the actual biblical quote that gave the reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha-surprise surprise,

    “What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?”

    Answer: The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the Lord and two angels coming to speak with Abraham. The Lord informed Abraham that “the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.” Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the Lord to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham’s nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom.

    Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, “Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'” The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then “the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities…”

    In light of the passage, the most common response to the question “What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?” is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term “sodomy” came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me…” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an “abomination.” Similarly, Jude 7 declares, “…Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.

    Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point. While Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.

  57. Elmarie A says:


    “What does the Bible say about gay marriage / same sex marriage?”

    Answer: While the Bible does address homosexuality, it does not explicitly mention gay marriage/same-sex marriage. It is clear, however, that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin. Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin. Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent. First Corinthians 6:9 states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful.

    Whenever the Bible mentions marriage, it is between a male and a female. The first mention of marriage, Genesis 2:24, describes it as a man leaving his parents and being united to his wife. In passages that contain instructions regarding marriage, such as 1 Corinthians 7:2-16 and Ephesians 5:23-33, the Bible clearly identifies marriage as being between a man and a woman. Biblically speaking, marriage is the lifetime union of a man and a woman, primarily for the purpose of building a family and providing a stable environment for that family.

    The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage. Modern secular psychology recognizes that men and women are psychologically and emotionally designed to complement one another. In regard to the family, psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. Psychology argues against gay marriage. In nature/physicality, clearly, men and women were designed to “fit” together sexually. With the “natural” purpose of sexual intercourse being procreation, clearly only a sexual relationship between a man and a woman can fulfill this purpose. Nature argues against gay marriage.

    So, if the Bible, history, psychology, and nature all argue for marriage being between a man and a woman—why is there such a controversy today? Why are those who are opposed to gay marriage/same-sex marriage labeled as hateful, intolerant bigots, no matter how respectfully the opposition is presented? Why is the gay rights movement so aggressively pushing for gay marriage/same-sex marriage when most people, religious and non-religious, are supportive of—or at least far less opposed to—gay couples having all the same legal rights as married couples with some form of civil union?

    The answer, according to the Bible, is that everyone inherently knows that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural, and the only way to suppress this inherent knowledge is by normalizing homosexuality and attacking any and all opposition to it. The best way to normalize homosexuality is by placing gay marriage/same-sex marriage on an equal plane with traditional opposite-gender marriage. Romans 1:18-32 illustrates this. The truth is known because God has made it plain. The truth is rejected and replaced with a lie. The lie is then promoted and the truth suppressed and attacked. The vehemence and anger expressed by many in the gay rights movement to any who oppose them is, in fact, an indication that they know their position is indefensible. Trying to overcome a weak position by raising your voice is the oldest trick in the debating book. There is perhaps no more accurate description of the modern gay rights agenda than Romans 1:31, “they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.”

    To give sanction to gay marriage/same-sex marriage would be to give approval to the homosexual lifestyle, which the Bible clearly and consistently condemns as sinful. Christians should stand firmly against the idea of gay marriage/same-sex marriage. Further, there are strong and logical arguments against gay marriage/same-sex marriage from contexts completely separated from the Bible. One does not have to be an evangelical Christian to recognize that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    According to the Bible, marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage/same-sex marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage. As Christians, we are not to condone or ignore sin. Rather, we are to share the love of God and the forgiveness of sins that is available to all, including homosexuals, through Jesus Christ. We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) and contend for truth with “gentleness and respect” (1 Peter 3:15). As Christians, when we make a stand for truth and the result is personal attacks, insults, and persecution, we should remember the words of Jesus: “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you” (John 15:18-19).

    Discussion closed on this topic.

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The following conditions does not mean that the authors of Discerning The World permit only opinions that are in agreement with us. This also does not mean that we fear dissenting opinions or ideas that are contrary to the beliefs that we hold (and/or that of the revealed Scriptures of the Holy Bible).

The following describes the Terms and Conditions applicable to your use of the “Comments” submission service at the Discerning the World website.


  1. Discerning the World owns and operates the site (the “Site”). Your use of the features on the Site allowing for submission of a “Comment” is subject to the following terms and conditions (the “Terms”). Discerning the World may modify these Terms at any time without notice to you by posting revised Terms on the Site. Your submission of a “Comment” to the Site following the modification of these Terms shall constitute your binding acceptance of and agreement to be bound by those modified Terms.
  2. By submitting a “Comment” you are accepting these Terms through your clicking of the “POST COMMENT” button.
  3. Discerning the World has the right, but not the obligation, to take any of the following actions, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, at any time, and for any reason or no reason, without providing any prior notice:
    1. Restrict, suspend or terminate your ability to submit “Comments,” to the Site;
    2. Change, suspend or modify all or any part of the Site or the features thereof;
    3. Refuse or remove any material posted on, submitted to or communicated through the Site by you;
    4. Deactivate or delete any screen names, profiles or other information associated with you; or
    5. Alter, modify, discontinue or remove any comment off the Site.
  4. You agree that, when using or accessing the Site or any of the features thereof, you will not:
    1. Violate any applicable law or regulation;
    2. Interfere with or damage the Site, through hacking or any other means;
    3. Transmit or introduce to the Site or to other users thereof any viruses, cancel bots, Trojan horses, flood pings, denial of service attacks, or any other harmful code or processes;
    4. Transmit or submit harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, deceptive, fraudulent, obscene, indecent, vulgar, lewd, violent, hateful or otherwise objectionable content or material;
    5. Transmit or submit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or spam;
    6. Stalk or harass any user or visitor to the Site; or
    7. Use the content or information available on the Site for any improper purpose.
  5. You retain the Copyright of any “Comment” you submit to Discerning the World. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to grant Discerning the World a irrevocable, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual license to use the material or commentary that you have submitted, in any medium and in any manner that Discerning the World may, in its sole unfettered discretion, choose.
  6. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to comply with the following rules concerning such submissions:
    1.  You agree not to include in your “Comment”:
      1. Any false, defamatory, libelous, abusive, threatening, racially offensive, sexually explicit, obscene, harmful, vulgar, hateful, illegal, or otherwise objectionable content;
      2. Any content that may be seen as stalking or harassing of any other Site contributors;
      3. Any content that personally attacks an individual. (An example of a personal attack is posting negative comments about an individual in a way meant to demean that person. Note that posting your opinion about someone’s ideas, doctrine or actions is not a personal attack);
      4. Any content that discloses private details concerning any person, for eg., phone numbers that have not been made public, photos that are not in the public domain, residential address that is not public, ID numbers, Social Security numbers, email addresses that are not in the public domain, etc.;
      5. Any content that you know to be false, misleading, or fraudulent;
      6. Any use of profanity;
      7. Any content including advertisements or otherwise focused on the promotion of commercial events or businesses, or any request for or solicitation of money, goods, or services for private gain;
      8. Any content that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment; or
      9. Any content directly or indirectly soliciting responses from minors (defined as anyone under 18 years of age).
    1. If any part of the “Comment” is not your original work, it is your responsibility to add the name of the third party, name the book with page number or a link (url) to the website where you obtained the information.
    2. Your “Comment” may contain Copyrighted material, the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. You are however allowed to make such material available in your “Comment” in an effort to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc.  This constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this Site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to:
    3. If you wish to use copyrighted material from a website or any other medium for purposes to add to your “Comment” that go beyond ‘fair use’, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. (Fair Use means you may quote from copyrighted sources, but you may not publish the whole article, book, etc., in your “Comment”.)
  8. You are solely responsible for the “Comment” you upload, post, transmit or otherwise make available to others using this Web Site. Under no circumstances will Discerning the World be liable in any way for any “Comment” posted on or made available through this Site by you or any third party.
  9. You understand that all “Comments” on this Site are pre-screened or moderated. That means that every “Comment” needs to be approved by Discerning the World before it appears in the “Comments” section.  This is not an automatic process.  Discerning the World does this for SPAM reasons.
  10. Discerning the World has the right (but not the obligation) in their sole unfettered discretion to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or available through the Site. Without limiting the foregoing, Discerning the World has the right to remove any “Comment” that violates these Terms or is otherwise deemed objectionable by Discerning the World in its sole discretion.
  11. You understand that Discerning the World in their sole unfettered discretion is not obligated and can not be forced in any manner, be it legal or otherwise to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or made available through the Site by you.
  12. When submitting a “Comment,” you will be asked to provide your name and your email address. While Discerning the World does not object to your use of a pseudonym instead of your actual name, Discerning the World reserves the right, but not the obligation, to reject, change, disallow, or discontinue at any time any submission name that, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, is objectionable or inappropriate for any reason. Discerning the World requires the submission of your email address, but Discerning the World warrants that it will not publish your email address to an outside third party without your consent.
  13. Discerning the World does not sell or rent your personal information to third parties for their marketing purposes. From time to time, Discerning the World may contact you personally via email. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you acknowledge and understand that the “Comments” feature of the Site is designed to permit users to post information and commentary for public review and comment and thus you hereby waive any expectation of privacy you may have concerning any likeness or information provided to the Site by you.
  14. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    1. Discerning the World shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor interactions utilizing the “Comments” facility of the Site, between you and other users of or visitors to the Site. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World, or any third party shall not be, and you shall not seek to hold them, responsible for any harm or damage whatsoever arising in connection with your interaction with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    2. Discerning the World does not verify any information posted to or communicated via the “Comments” sections of the Site by users and does not guarantee the proper use of such information by any party who may have access to the information. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World does not assume, and shall not have, any responsibility for the content of messages or other communications sent or received by users of the Site.
  15. The Site contains content created by or on behalf of Discerning the World as well as content provided by third parties.
    1. Discerning the World does not control, and makes no representations or warranties about, any third party content, including such content that may be accessible directly on the Site or through links from the Site to third party sites.
    2. You acknowledge that, by viewing the Site or communications transmitted through the Site, you may be exposed to third party content that is false, offensive or otherwise objectionable to you or others, and you agree that under no circumstances shall Discerning the World be liable in any way, under any theory, for any third party content.
    3. You acknowledge and agree that the Site, and the contents thereof, is proprietary to Discerning the World and is protected by copyright. You agree that you will not access or use the Site or any of the content thereof for any reason or purpose other than your personal, non-commercial use.
    4. You agree that you will not systematically retrieve data or other content from the Site by any means, and you will not compile a database or directory of information extracted from the Site.
    5. You agree that you will not reproduce, distribute or make derivative works of the Site or any of the contents thereof without the express consent of Discerning the World.
    6. You hereby agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless Discerning the World, its affiliates and licensees, and all of their officers, directors, employees, agents and representatives from and against any and all liabilities, losses, claims, damages, and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) in connection with any claim arising out of your use of the Site or violation of any of these Terms.



16. These Terms constitute the entire agreement between Discerning the World and you with respect to the subject matter hereof, and supersede any previous oral or written agreement between us with respect to such subject matter.

Thank you!

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