Emergent Mysticism (1)

The Vociferous Silent Ones Emergent

Emergent Mysticism: A Biblical Appraisal of the Mosaic Congress held at the Mosaic Church (4 – 5 Sept. 2009) – Part 1

The usual suspects spoke at the Mosaic Congress namely;  Ron Martoia (USA), Stephan Joubert, Johan Geyser, Trevor Hudson, Gavin Sklar-Chik, Gys Du Plessis, Willem Nicol, Rex van Vuuren, Annemarie Paulin-Campell

The new-old magical way to get in touch with God – “be still,” “be quiet,” “shut up,” “shhhhhhh”

shhhh2_thumb Emergent

The well-known song “Silence is Golden may have been a hit on the singles UK charts in 1967, but the refrain “Silence is Truth” has hit the Christian Church like a tsunami, carrying with it in it’s destructive wake many unsuspecting Christians.

One of the major contributors to this utterly devastating “silent” storm is the Mosaic Church in Fairland, Johannesburg.

As an introduction to my critique on the Mosaic Congress I would like to draw your attention to certain words and phrases that all the keynote speakers used throughout their presentations.

A word that kept popping up like a well-watered toadstool in each of their corpulently worded lectures was the word “silence.

Bearing in mind that most of these speakers’ mentors and gurus have drunk from the wells of Buddhism (i.e. Thomas Merton, Thomas Keating etc.) it is no surprise that their entire spiritual journey revolves mainly around Buddhist spiritualities and not the cross of Jesus Christ.

In fact, the only time they referred to the word “cross” was when they endearingly spoke of St John of the Cross, a Desert Father who coined the phrase “Silence is the first language of God.”

Whilst in attendance of the two-day Congress I couldn’t help thinking what Paul would have said about the absence of any good and solid preaching on the cross, especially in the light of his own statement:

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified” (1 Corinthians 2:1-2)

Paul was saying in effect:

I have not come to you parading my own wisdom but to present to you the power and wisdom of God, which is the cross of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:18).

Was St. John of the Cross’ maxim something new and original? Hardly! The following survey will prove that it originated with Eastern religions and the New Age.

The significance of silence in Eastern religions, the New Age and Shamanism


One of the many anecdotes on the life of Gautama Buddha (born circa 563 BC) tells that a philosopher once visited Buddha and asked him: “Without words, without the wordless, will you tell me the truth?” Buddha remained silent.

After a while the philosopher rose up gently, made a solemn bow and thanked Buddha saying: “With your loving kindness, I have cleared away all my delusions and entered the true path.” (1)

This anecdote describes how Buddha sought the essence of truth through silence in his relentless and endless quest for the truth. Cognitive processes such as rational thinking, doctrinal or dogmatic studies and debates, the discernment or evaluation of facts and/or postulates played no part in Buddha’s quest for the truth.

During the Mosaic Congress it was resplendently aggravating to hear again and again that wisdom cannot be found in dogmas, doctrines or propositions but in a way of life, a way of life that one enters into by following the Sage, Jesus Christ, solitude and contemplative silence.

The path Buddha preferred was completely embedded in “mauna” (in English “silence”) which he hoped to achieve in seclusion and solitude. It is very interesting to note that the word muni (meaning “hermit” or“sage”) comes from mauna.

Buddha was also known as Sakyamuni, the gracefully silent one or sage from the Sakya clan. Please make a mental note of the word “sage” because it pops up frequently in Stephan Joubert’s paper titled “Being a Radical Pilgrim and Prophet” which I intend to critique later in a separate article.

There are many stories and discourses in Buddhism that are attributed to Buddha himself and in nearly all of them Truth and Silence are intrinsically and inseparably linked. In fact, whenever Truth is mentioned in relation to Buddha it is always said in regard to Silence, so much so that it is believed that Silence in the presence of Buddha equals Truth.

Fr. Chandrakanthan who earned his doctorate in theology at St. Paul University, Ottawa, where he also teaches Eastern Religions, wrote the following based on a talk he gave in July, 1986, at the Christian Meditation Centre, London.

Buddha’s Silence was not wordlessness or noiselessness. It had a transforming power, permeating and filling the atmosphere around him with such intensity that people seated at his presence experienced “the ineffable and the inexplicable.”

His Silence had no movement, yet people around him moved closer to the Truth just by being in his presence, permeated and filled by the effulgence of his joyous stillness. His Silence was contagious.

It was like the unseen powers of a magnetic field or the invisible sound waves that travel in the atmosphere.

The close affinity that is said to enjoin Truth with Silence is not uncommon in the mystical traditions of other religions including Christianity [the “Christianity” to which he refers is of course Roman Catholicism. – My own parenthesis].

Whether it be in the Sufism of Islam or in the Hasidim of Judaism, silence is always referred to as the prerequisite for an interior experience of the divine. Silence is often eulogized as the language of the heart. Buddha’s Silence reveals to us the nature and significance of an ideal form of silence. This becomes more evident when we contrast the mauna with our ordinary experience of silence. (Emphasis added)



The Hindu poet and teacher, Dryanadev (A.D. 1290) once wrote in his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita: “Your true praise consists in perfect silence.” God, he also said, does not put on any other ornament except silence.

The Atharva Veda of Hinduism  says the following,

He cannot be seen by the eye, and words cannot reveal Him. He cannot be reached by the senses, or by austerity or sacred actions. By the grace of wisdom and purity of mind, He can be seen, indivisible, in the silence of contemplation. This invisible Atman can be seen by the mind wherein the five senses are resting.


The Maitri Upanishad sates:

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the Supreme Mystery beyond thought. Let one’s mind and one’s subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else.


Adi Shankaracharya says:

Silence is the first door to spiritual eminence. (Emphasis added trhoughout).

Sri Chinmoy tells a story about a pious man who studies the scriptures devotedly, and likes to discuss philosophy with a scholar who comes to visit him. They earnestly discuss the path to spiritual liberation, but deep in his heart, the man knows this endless talk is not bringing him any closer to attaining his goal.

Now, it happens that the man has a little caged bird in his room, and he likes to hear it sing. But one morning he notices the bird is not singing at all, it has fallen completely silent.

He speaks to the bird, tries to coax it, but it makes not a sound. Eventually the man opens the cage door and the bird, in an instant, escapes, flies out of the cage, through the open window of the room, and soars into the infinite freedom of the sky.

The bird taught his master an important spiritual lesson. Silence liberates!

We can talk endlessly, argue, discuss, debate. But the real truth of things, we discover in silence. Eventually we have to hush the mind and its chatter, discover that vastness in our hearts and soar into it. (Emphasis added throughout).

New Age

Franz Kafka says:

You do not need to do anything; you do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. You do not even need to listen; just wait. You do not even need to wait; just become still, quiet and solitary and the world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked. It has no choice. It will roll in ecstasy at your feet.


Alice Bailey tells us that Sagittarius is called in some ancient books “the sign of silence”. She goes on to tell us that the lesson of Sagittarius is “restraint of speech through control of thought.”

‘Right use of thought, restraint of speech, and consequent harmlessness on the physical plane, result in liberation; for we are held in the human unit, we are imprisoned to the planet not by some outside force that holds us there, but by what we ourselves have said and done.’

The Labours of Hercules: An Astrological Interpretation, p 161: Alice Bailey

Shamanism (Practices concerned with communication with the spirit world)

In “An Encyclopedia of Shamanism Volume 2” on pages 448 and 449 the following insightful facts are given on the spiritual significance of silence.

It is the wisdom of shamanic peoples to leave in silence the things we cannot talk about clearly in words. There are states of being and numinous experiences that are central to shamanic altered states of consciousness and shamanic healing experiences which defy description through words.

Choosing not to talk about sacred experiences is a way to contain and protect the energy. Though powerful, the energy of the sacred is illusive and easily contaminated. Silence is both a form of protecting the sacred and a means by which to hold the sacred while the nonrational aspects of a sacred experience are integrated.

Silence is often a necessary prerequisite to having an experience of the sacred. This is in part the reason for the traditional vision quest that lasts for three to four days in silence. The vision quest is time designated for silence in the hope that a message from spirit will be “heard.”

Silence is both a way to open to the sacred and to integrate the numinous aspects of sacred experiences. Silence is one of four universal healing salves (storytelling, singing, dance) employed by indigenous peoples to maintain health and well-being. Discomfort with silence, or any of the four healing salves, indicates a state of soul loss. (Emphasis added).


In “The adornment of silence. Secrecy and symbolic power in American freemasonry,” Hugh B. of the Urban Ohio State University makes the following observations.

[I]n the adorned body we possess more; if we have the adorned body at our disposal, we are masters over more and nobler things. . . . Bodily adornment becomes private property above all: it expands the ego and enlarges the sphere around us . . . which consists in the pleasure and the attention of our environment (344, my emphasis).

Adornment is thus a critical part of the larger process of social transformation: it is that mystifying process which turns ordinary material wealth (the possession of jewelry or clothing) into social wealth (the possession of prestige, dignity or respect): “Adornment is the means by which social power is transformed into visible, personal excellence” (343). So too, the “adornment of silence” that we find in secrecy likewise serves to transform the possession of certain valued knowledge into the possession of status and superiority.

Silence, whether practiced in the Christian Church, Budddhism, Hinduism, New Age, Shamanism or Freemasonry, all have one thing in common and that is to instill a false humility in the hearts of those who practice the silence.

A false humilty is but another name for pride and that’s precisely what Satan accomplishes in the hearts of everyone who practices contemplative silence.

A false humility is one of the worst enemies of biblical doctrine and the cross of Jesus Christ because it undermines and surplants His teaching that anyone who desires to follow Him must deny themselves, take up their cross and follow Him (Matthew 16 :24). Those who obey this command are the real followers of Christ and not the ones who practice contemplative silence and soilitude.

There is a common thread running through Masonry, the Roman Catholic church, the occult, and contemplative/meditation practices – the Kabbalah. Each group strives for ecumenical unity among all religions and they are all being deceived by the same spirit – the spirit of Satan.

The Word of God

Throughout the Bible God makes it abundantly clear that the preaching of His Word (the Word of Truth) as Jesus referred to it in John 17:17) was and still is His way of making Himself known to mankind. The written and spoken Word of God, as we learn from Paul in Romans 10:17, is the mouthpiece, if you will, that produces true faith in the lives of those who obediently and wholeheartedly submit to it’s authority.

In fact, Paul emphatically states that no-one can truly know or get acquainted with God unless they call upon His Name (entreat Him according to everything His Name represents) and no-one can call upon His Name (in this particular way) without someone proclaiming or preaching His Word, and no-one can preach His Word without having been called to do so.

Their sound (the spoken words of these called and sent out preachers and not their “silence” or “shut ups” or “shhhhhhhs”) went out into all the earth (Romans 10:13-18).

Imagine Peter at Pentecost, placing his index finger in front of his mouth and saying “Shhhhhhh! silence is the first language of God,” and then bidding his audience to sit down with him in silence to experience the presence of God.

Let’s do a quick survey. Do you think three thousand souls would have been saved that day if Peter, who had been in touch with God (through Jesus Christ) nearly every day of his life, had listened to Ron Martoia who spoke more than thirty five minutes (not in silence but in well articulated and yet unbiblical sounds) on the silly assumption that “silence is the first language of God?”

You must be joking! If we were to accept St. John of the Cross’s and Ron Martoias’s silly notion that “silence is the first language of God” we would have had to rewrite the very first verse in the Bible: “In the beginning God shhhhhhh. . .d.” Not even Jesus Christ, the Word that became flesh, deemed it necessary to practice “silence” in order to “hear” the so-called “first language of God.” He said:

John 15: 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in a synagogue and in the temple [area], where the Jews [habitually] congregate (assemble); and I have spoken nothing secretly.

When Jesus said “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free” (John 8:32) He never intended the truth to be known through the practice of silence or quietness or stillness. The word “ginosko” means to perceive, understand, to attain knowledge of Him and his teachings through his spoken and written Word which is the Truth (John 17″17).

We already have his Truth at our disposal in his written Word and therefore do not need to practice certain techniques so as to learn the truth or to enter into God’s presence. This is a far cry from the belief that the Buddha imparted truth merely through his silent presence and that he only had to look into the eyes of his devotees to impart all the teaching and wisdom that can ever be imparted to all those who are ready to receive it. I pretty much believe that this will be the way Antichrist is going to impart his knowledge (“truth”) to the world.


He has not yet declared His true status, and His location is known to only a very few disciples. One of these has announced that soon the Christ will acknowledge His identity and within the next two months will speak to humanity through a worldwide television and radio broadcast.

His message will be heard inwardly (silently), telepathically, by all people in their own language. From that time, with His help, we will build a new world. (Emphasis and parenthesis added)

The Unicorn in the Sanctuary. The Impact of the New Age on the Catholic Church, Randy England

Jesus also said “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” It evidently does not mean that we ought to hear an audible voice, but simply that his disciples follow Him in accordance with his commandments (his teachings, doctrines). They have come to know and discern his voice from other counterfeit voices by following his will as expounded in his decrees (written Word; His Truth).

2 John verse 9 Anyone who runs on ahead [of God] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ [who is not content with what He taught] does not have God; but he who continues to live in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ [does have God], he has both the Father and the Son.

I sincerely hope to find adequate time to write more detailed comments on each of the speakers’ presentations at the Mosaic Congress, proving to you that many well-known and distinguished clergy in South Africa are already head over heels part and parcel of a full-blown last days apostasy and sadly many, I repeat, many South Africans and especially our youth are being drawn into this godless maelstrom of an end time apostasy.

According to Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, and not these charlatans who think they are god, the truth must be PROCLAIMED from the rooftops.

“What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.” (Matthew 10:27)

“Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.” (Luke 12:3)

Click:  Part 2, Part 3, Part 4 and Part 5

(1) Paul Reps, (ed.), Zen Flesh, Zen Bones (London: Penguin Books, reprinted 1982), pp. 119-120

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

21 Responses

  1. Hrugnir says:

    Saying God speaks when we are silent does not mean he does not speak to others when we speak. Human being were given two ears and one mouth. While we should preach the gospel boldly and not stay silent when the Truth should be told, we’re not told to just babble all day long.

    You’re describing silence as if it was an invention of Satan.

    “For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:… a time to keep silence, and a time to speak”
    (Ecc 3:1,7)

    “It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the LORD. It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth. Let him sit alone in silence when it is laid on him; let him put his mouth in the dust– there may yet be hope;”
    (Lam 3:26-29)

    “If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.”
    (1 Cor 14:27-28)

    “Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”
    (Psa 46:10)

    “Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.”
    (Zech 2:13)

    I agree there can be an overt focus on silence over speaking, but silence is sometimes a VERY fitting response to God. We do want to HEAR of He actually has something to say, no?

  2. Hrugnir

    >> Saying God speaks when we are silent does not mean he does not speak to others when we speak. Human being were given two ears and one mouth. While we should preach the gospel boldly and not stay silent when the Truth should be told, we’re not told to just babble all day long.

    You’re describing silence as if it was an invention of Satan.

    You can’t be serious? There is a HUGE HUGE difference between keeping quiet, being still, and silence vs practising meditation.

    Here is a good example of silence that has nothing to do with meditation: ‘While reading your comment I was shocked into silence’.

    We HEAR what GOD is saying when we READ the Word of God. And HE convicts us through HIS HOLY SPIRIT that dwells in us when we are born again. Do you know what I am talking about?

  3. Michael Anthony says:


    Doing a bible lookup with ‘still/silent’ keywords to try and prove a point… bad, very bad idea. Did I mention that it is very irresponsible too? You must read a scripture in its CONTEXT. Did I mention that scriptures should be read contextually?

    Ok, lemme give you one – Zechariah (2:13), the overall context is Israel and the end times as well as the millenium. This book overall is prophetic (also in terms of the day of the Lord/judgement.) You cannot pull that verse out of that context.

    And the real snoozer using 1 Corinthians 14, most other translations (including the one you used but not so clear) says that the person WHO must keep SILENT is the ONE WHO GAVE THE TONGUE (if there is no interpreter HE MUST REMAIN SILENT speaking between himself and GOD) The scripture can also read as one or more instances of this occurance therefore the ‘any’ and ‘each of them’ definition.

    Dude, please can you try and not impose a meaning on the text?

    There is no scriptural basis for saying that God speaks if or when we are silent. God has already spoken – through his established word.

  4. Thomas Lessing says:

    The “stillness” or “silence” the emergents promulgate is not the usual run of the mill meaning of “silence” but the complete passivity of the mind. An inactive or passive mind as opposed to an active, sober and vigilant mind is very dangerous because it sets the stage for demonic delusion, deception and even possession. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner and neurologist, Sir John Eccles, described the brain as “A machine a ghost can operate.” As soon as you let go or surrender your capacity to “will” or “not to will” (as in hypnotism) you actually surrender your mind to any other entity out there somewhere, in stead of having your own spirit (which includes your free-will) control your mind. The same passivity of mind can be induced by drugs, chanting, drumming, trance dancing, hypnotism, mandalas etc.

    The main reason the emergents want to achieve “silence” through contemplative meditation is to enter into the presence of God. Think of it, if we were able to enter into the very presence of God, we would have had no need of a Mediator Who claimed that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no one can come to the Father but by and through Him. Would we have been able to enter into the presence of God if Jesus had been incarnated but not crucified? Never! because the Word clearly states that it is through His shed blood and His alone that we are granted permission to approach God in His innermost sanctuary in heaven (Hebrews 10:19-22). It is pure blasphemy to think anyone can enter into the presence of God through meditative silence or any other contemplative way. It is nothing else but the way of Cain. It is an outright denial and rejection of the cross of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:18).

    Anyone who dabbles in contemplative disciplines such as contemplative prayer, silence, labyrinths etc. are playing with fire.

  5. Janet says:

    “Anyone who dabbles in silence (is) playing with fire”…”Dabbles” in silence??? (I am referring to the above post.)

    What do we do with the verse in Scripture,

    “Be still and know that I am God”?

    I don’t think the author was imagining the individual who was “being still” either reading the Bible or speaking aloud while knowing and being aware of God.

    I don’t know how a person CAN know God without sitting in silence – not ALL of the time, but a LOT of the time. And please don’t go thinking that I mean New Age meditation – I mean focusing on Jesus in the silence.

  6. Janet

    Do you EMPTY YOU MIND and MEDITATE LIKE like a new ager? Are you SURE you are not a new ager? IF you are NOT then WHY are you ARGUING with this article? Do you USE EASTERN RELIGIOUS TECHNIQUES when you read the bible?

    Seeing as though you are all for quoting scripture, tell me what the bible says about OTHER GODS and OTHER RELIGIONS?

  7. Janet says:

    Dear Deborah,

    I don’t think you read my post in its entirety, or you would have seen my last sentence, where I anticipated that you would think I meditated in the New Age/Eastern manner. I do not.

    To repeat, I don’t “empty my mind and meditate like a New Ager”. I do not believe in other gods. “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One”. This is what I believe.

    I am starting to see that perhaps you have a sort of knee-jerk reaction to things posted here, and maybe do not read them carefully. You certainly didn’t read my post carefully. That is obvious to me.

    You could save yourself a lot of what you must feel is “righteous anger” by not having this automatic reaction to what people write here, but instead, reading the posts more carefully.

    There is silence, and there is the “trance state”, and channeling. Silence is an important part of Christian prayer. Channeling can put us in serious danger through opening ourselves up to dark entities.

  8. Robbie says:

    Read the whole article … not just the heading.

  9. maizie says:

    The Holy Spirit teaches us, Spirit to spirit even while we sleep but it is essential to know God’s Word which is the foundation for the Holy spirit as He does not build upon any but Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Cornerstone of our faith.

  10. Werner says:


    the only thing we can do with this verse is to read it in context; ‘be still’ in this passage (if you are refering to Psalm 46:10), actually means ‘stop striving’, they are therefore told to cease from warlike activities and acknowledge God’s supremacy.

    The verse (in context), further carries the idea of refraining from vain strivings and lack of confidence. The refrain is repeated in order to show the triumph of this confidence in God.

    When we rape a verse,we can make the Scriptures mean anything we want, we can make our own doctrines, we can defend our own follies, and even start our own religions…

  11. Janet

    No Janet, you did not read this article properly. If you understood what it was saying you would not be arguing about what biblical prayer is vs meditation. Prayer is prayer, being sill is being sill (not silence). But meditation is meditation, silence is silence, emptying your mind is occult or repeating verses or mantras is WRONG. Don’t come here and try flip the coin on me.

  12. Janet says:

    [deleted] If you want to go then, good bye Janet. If you want to side with New Age teachers such as those in this article be our guest, but please do not make your issues ours as we content to fight for the GOSPEL TRUTH; ALWAYS. As I said before, IF YOU WERE A GENUINE CHRISTIAN you would not be arguing with us. You want us to engage in dialogue that in the end show you to be right and we wont do that because you are not right. The truth is quite plain to see in the article, but if you fail to see it and view me as the manipulator then, unfortunately you are blind to the truth. I pray the Holy Spirit opens your eyes to what you believe and that you do not fall into the trap of a false holy spirit awakening.

  13. john1 says:

    Silence is very important as it is our nature. None of us were born with any indwelling of words, no matter how profound or true sounding. We are all taught many things that in order to experience God working in our lives we have to unlearn. It is by being silent that take in the world around us. God is not heard by those whose minds and mouths are too busy yapping, but by those who will become still, patient, open, loving, silent.

  14. john1

    What a load of horse pucky. You sound like you delve deeply into mysticism. From this moment forth I suggest you keep silent because I don’t want to hear from you anymore.

  15. Martin Horan says:

    The sad thing is, Deborah, a lot of people do want to hear from these people who’d be best living by what they preach and remain silent!
    God gave us the gift of speech, no-one else did.
    I have a friend who cannot speak and would love to. He was born dumb and still remains so, though a Christian. Maybe some of the people who come out with these statements would think of dumb people and realize the blessing they’ve been given.
    We are told to CONTEND for the faith once delivered. How do we contend if we are silent? The fact is, we don’t because we can’t.
    Where in the Bible–full of all necessary teaching–does it say “for God to work in our lives we have to unlearn things”?
    When God comes into our lives we learn more and the wrong things go. To unlearn things is an unfortunate choice of words by virtue of the fact that it’s illogical.

  16. Marion says:

    Martin – “illogical” – good point.

    Perhaps a better choice for the one talking about “unlearning” would have been the fact that we are to REJECT the lies, REPENT, and RECEIVE the love of the truth..

    Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life…”(John 14:6a)

    “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” (Romans 12:2)

  17. Naomi says:

    Jesus reveals himself as the Father to those whom He chooses. They are the true disciples
    Those who have left all to seek God…this is why Jesus mentions the narrow door
    To life…to which he says ..few there will be who will find.
    Jesus says…who has not left mother, father, wife , home, brother
    Sister…for His sake and the Gospel is not worthy of the kingdon
    Which is the knowledge of God….for this reason Jesus says to his true
    Disciples..to you has been given the secrets of the kingdom of God, to others
    I speak in parables that they maybe ever seeing, but NEVER perceiving..
    A true disciple does not delve in the matters of the flesh, like the
    Carnal ” christians ” who profess to be christians, but cannot obey
    Be obedient to Jesus…this is why Jesus says…DO NOT cAll me LORD , LORD and do
    Not do as I say…a true disciple is one who has heard the voice of
    The Father…and one to whom the divine will has been revealed…
    This is the silence experienced, it belongs to those who love
    God…and have done His will…

  18. Martin Horan says:

    Very good points, Marion.
    Sorry I’ve just got back on this site thus my slowness in thanking you for points that should always be in the forefront of my mind. Thanks.

  19. Laurent says:

    When you want to discuss or have a useful speech with someone, it is better to have a clear mind, free of “noise”.
    A better understanding of yourself also helps (extreme conditioning nowadays).
    A contemplative prayer is somehow smoothing out all that “noise” and have a “heart to heart” discussion with our Savior Jesus Christ.
    You would be surprised how rich a silent conversation with your heart and a clear mind can be. No need of words.
    Jesus did speak to your mind/brain but also to your Heart (look for this world in the Bible) which is the core of your transformation process; but the mind is still useful to have something to start a “conversation” or writing “theology”.
    But as most people have a very limited intellectual capacity, the Heart path is available to everyone (think still about some Bible verses…) and especially the “lowest” ones.

    I am thus not speaking of being opened passively to any incoming spirit but just call Jesus, contemplate what He has gone through, observe Him, try to “grasp”what you can and what you are offered (by the Holy Spirit?). It is truly amazing but only a few seem to be offered this path and you can view some Truths you would not by reading scriptures with your limited intellectual capacity.
    Visions can be gifts to help you in this process of redemption.

    Question: Would some of you have hanged prophets who had visions like the Pharisees killed Jesus ?
    Of course, not !

    I have been meditating for long and it can obviously be dangerous (won’t give details I am sure you anticipate long enough) but a contemplative prayer is something else you are clearly not understanding simply because of a lack of experience (it almost can’t be explained but experienced).

    Are you sure of what Jesus was doing in the desert for 40 days and nights or even John the Baptist to reject Apostles, Catholic Saints or Doctors of the Catholic Church as Mystics ?

    God bless you all.

  20. Laurent

    There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever in Scripture that contemplative prayer (silence) can usher you into the holiest of holies in heaven. In fact, it distinctly says that the blood of Christ Jesus alone permits you to enter into the holiest in heaven.

    Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 10:19-22).

    If silent prayer (contemplative meditation) was able to bring one into the presence of God, any person involved in any other religion practicing meditation would have been able to come into the presence of the God of the Bible. In fact, silent prayer of whatever shape or form is an outright rejection of Jesus Christ as the only Door by whom we may enter into the holiest of holies in heaven. It is another gospel which, as Paul says, is not gospel at all.

    You said,

    I have been meditating for long and it can obviously be dangerous (won’t give details I am sure you anticipate long enough) but a contemplative prayer is something else you are clearly not understanding simply because of a lack of experience (it almost can’t be explained but experienced).

    Allow me to ask you, are there any dangers involved in entering into the presence of God by the blood of Christ? Can you name any?

    You said,

    Are you sure of what Jesus was doing in the desert for 40 days and nights…?

    You ought to know because the Bible tells us without any ambiguity that “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.” (Mat 4:1) It does not say that He spent 40 days in the desert to pray, let alone sit silently in a frame of contemplative meditation. In fact, He consistently rebuked the devil by quoting Scripture to him. Please don’t read into Scripture which it does not say or teach. That is very dangerous.

  21. Laurent wrote:

    When you want to discuss or have a useful speech with someone, it is better to have a clear mind, free of “noise”.
    A better understanding of yourself also helps (extreme conditioning nowadays).

    I suppose this is the reason why so many churches (including the Mosaïek Kerk in Fairlands, Johannesburg of Johan Geyser) allow for prayer AND Meditation before the pastor delivers his or her emergent mystical sermons – to get a clear mind so that you may understand them. Perhaps the legal courts should institute a similar practice and allow the accused a time of prayer AND meditation before they are pronounced guilty.

    THE ACCUSED: “Your honor, I really did not understand your reasoning to pronounce me guilty. Please allow me a brief moment of prayer and meditation so that I may clear my cluttered mind and the noise in it. A better understanding of myself will help me to understand your reasoning.”

    THE JUDGE: “By all means, go ahead and step into the little room at the back where you may pray and meditate at your heart’s delight. However, be sure that your silent prayer and meditation won’t change my ruling one bit. You are guilty and deserve your life’s sentence.”

    THE ACCUSED: “Thank you, your honor. I understand.

    Laurent, when I read your comment I did not need to clear my mind with silent prayer and meditation to understand why Jesus said there are but few who find the strait gate and the narrow way (Mat 7:14). They fail to find it because they are forever forging and practicing techniques, methods, systems, and practices to try and enter into the presence of God. God must of necessity reject their little techniques, in the same way He rejected Cain’s offering. You know what happened then. He killed a prophet (his brother Abel).

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