Grace to You and John MacArthur – Take Mark of the Beast – No Recant

Grace to You John MacArthur - Take Mark of the Beast Repent Be Saved

No Recant – John MacArthur says you can still take the Mark of the Beast…

On the 14 Oct 2013 DTW posted an article exposing John MacArthur and Grace to You Ministries.The fact that John MacArthur teaches that you can take the Mark of the beast during the tribulation and still be saved as biblical truth is because he is a Calvinist.  The doctrine of Calvinism is a false doctrine of epic proportions.

Grace to You has now Responded with a blog post called ‘Unforgivable?’ on the 30 Oct 2013.   They were questioning whether taking the Mark of the Beast during the Tribulation is an unforgivable sin. How PREPOSTEROUS!

Grace to You and John MacArthur still believe one can repent after receiving the Mark of the Beast. NO RECANT. – see below:

Grace to You John MacArthur - Take Mark of the Beast 1

Grace to You John MacArthur - Take Mark of the Beast 2

Grace to You John MacArthur - Take Mark of the Beast 3

source:  http://www.gty.org/blog/B131030

READ THE PEOPLES COMMENTS AT THE GTY LINK ABOVE  TO SEE HOW PEOPLE ARE BEING DECEIVED BY GRACE TO YOU – BELIEVING YOU CAN TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST, REPENT AND STILL BE SAVED.

Here is the original video, you can listen to it:

Revelation 14:6-11   

6 “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

1 Corinthians 14:33   “For God is not the author of confusion…”
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22 Comment authors
LoraA lambRyanTony GriffinRobbie Recent comment authors
Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

You are being dishonest. Show me from the article itself where the author says or suggests that the children die because of the sins of their fathers? Did not the entire human race fall into sin because their great-great-great-great-great grandad sinned?

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 5:18-21)

Tony Griffin
Guest
Tony Griffin

First of all again you’re being belligerent . I think there’s more kind ways to express oneself then calling people stupid and being so mean-spirited it seems from your words. First, concerning your calling me dishonest , I did not say that the article was dishonest concerning the sins of the father issue. That error came from Deborah, counseling Osito above in her comments. No it is not a scriptural principle that a child will die for the sins of their father biblically speaking. That’s ludicrous and if you believe that, it’s a false doctrine. So back yourself up, I did not be dishonest I told the truth. It’s very dishonest to make the statements that you’re making.

As to your second rude comment implying that I am not a teacher. I don’t need to display my credentials to you Besides, you likely would not understand them anyway. And yes I can be belligerent to . I have an M Div and Th D. The passage that you quoted out of context is not talking about generational curses or generational sin. It is talking about justification. I’m not even going to entertain your out of context statement.

Thirdly, no one said anything about reasoning with men about their sins. That such an asinine statement. And meant to be belligerent I think you’re being very sinful. And you should be ashamed of yourself you’re very rude actually.

Fourth, the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He was talking to Hebrews claiming to be Christians. You obviously didn’t read what I put about it so I’m not gonna go further with it. Jesus himself stated that any sin is forgivable but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not. Look for yourself.

Lastly, the burden to show proper exegesis is on you not me. After all you’re the one making the post and you’re the one who’s putting up this article. The fact is, I ask questions in my responses and you haven’t answered a single one of them. Instead you’re answering questions with questions. Very common fallacy among people who are ignorant. And I’m trying to be nice. Your responses are very unChristian like and unkind. It is one thing to disagree , but what you’re showing is something completely different. You are hostile. And you should be ashamed of yourself. And you call yourself a believer. You are actually showing a deep lack of maturity and I pray that your hostility toward people who might disagree with you, will subside as you learn to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit which is lacking in your responses.

Tony Griffin
Guest
Tony Griffin

Oh and as to your last comment I forgot to mention, no the entire human race did not FALL into sin. Again another misunderstanding and misstating of the text on your part. The human race was conceived in sin. Read the Scriptures for yourself we sin because we are sinners. And the only remedy is the Lord Jesus Christ. Your implication of falling into sin implies that there was no birthing into sin rather falling into it. That is completely wrong and not found in the Scriptures.

Tony Griffin
Guest
Tony Griffin

And I want to say that I’m sorry if any of my writing back to you is offensive , unkind, or belligerent . If it is and I’ve offended you I would kindly ask for your forgiveness. I know debates like this can get heated. But let’s face it brother we are on the same side. At least I believe we are. I will try my best to do better and not be insulting with my own words. I have a lot of work to do and I’m very far from the mark but I’m gonna press on and not look back . Maybe you can help me with this from time to time as I comment. But again I’m sorry.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

I don’t think you will ever offend me. I’ll tell you why. I have learnt to accept rebukes whenever I am wrong in any of my presentations of biblical doctrines. In fact, you may quote to me Galatians 1:8 and 9 if my soteriology is wrong, in the same way I quoted it to John MacArthur and many other Calvinists who believe that Jesus only loves the elect and only died for them. I believe Jesus died for all people and that anyone can be saved provided they believe as the Scripture say. So, to whom would you say does Galatians 1 verses 8 and 9 apply? Therefore, you really don’t need to be so hard on yourself and think that you have offended me. You haven’t

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Once again, you are being dishonest when you accuse me of calling people stupid. I never pointed a finger at anyone and called them stupid. I merely asked you whether you believed it was stupid to believe a lie. Furthermore, I didn’t say you’re not a teacher. I merely questioned your boastful credentials on the basis that your teaching of Isaiah 1:18 is wrong. Look, I don’t have the time to listen to your accusations because you don’t understand what I’m saying.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Would you say that because we are all born IN sin (with which I totally agree), little babies go to hell when they die at birth?

Tony Griffin
Guest
Tony Griffin

I do not believe that little babies go to hell when they die at birth. In a psalm, David mourned the loss of his firstborn child to Bathsheba and made the statement that when he died that he was going to be there with him one day . So certainly I believe that babies that die go to heaven as well as people who can’t make their own choices like people who are mentally challenged and so forth. And I’ve also believe that God is sovereign . Again they both go hand-in-hand God’s sovereign and man is responsible . It’s a paradox

Tony Griffin
Guest
Tony Griffin

But as to the post or actually the article, about Dr. MacArthur making a statement like that about the Mark of the beast , I don’t know that I agree with him. Even though I absolutely love Dr. MacArthur. In fact I’m going to see him couple weeks. Scripture is very clear that those who take the mark of the beast will pay for it in eternal hell. However and maybe it’s a paradox, I do have to agree with Dr. MacArthur also in this that as I said maybe in this post or another I can’t remember, that Jesus said that there is only one sin that is unforgivable all sins can be forgiven including blasphemy against the Son of Man, but the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. So if all sins can be forgiven except for that one sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit I can understand the reason why he would make a statement like that. I can understand both sides.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Of course, all babies go to heaven when they die before the age of accountability. If so, it means they are born IN sin and not WITH sin.

What do you personally mean by God is sovereign – sovereign in salvation? If God’s sovereignty is a paradox, then his love also is a paradox, and if his love is a paradox, then He Himself is a paradox because he is the essence of love. Are you saying God is the essence of paradox?

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

It depends on what you believe the unpardonable sin is. Scripture very distinctly says (and certainly not in any shape or form of a paradox) the following (as you already know):

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Rev 14:9-11)

You also know that repentance and faith in Jesus Christ (which MacArthur and his Calvinist buddies do not believe because, according to them, man does not have a free-will and therefore is completely unable to trust God for his salvation) is an absolute necessity for salvation. This is what the Bible says about those who are going to take the mark of the beast.

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: (Rev 9:20)

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. (Rev 16:9)

And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. (Rev 16:11)

Tony Griffin
Guest
Tony Griffin

It sounds like you don’t understand what a true paradox is. God is sovereign totally over everything salvation and everything and man is still responsible and has free will. They’re both the same. How is it that God can be in control of everything and even plan things before the foundation of the world like he says he did, and yet we still have free will and the are opposed to one another wouldn’t you agree? That is what paradox is, they are both true but they are opposed to one another . It sounds like you want to put God on your level which is blasphemy . God Transcends us and everything about him. And not everything about him is knowable outside of the word of God. That’s the problem with people who are Armenian, like yourself. You spiritualize the text of Scripture. For example rather than taking God at his word which is also a form of blasphemy and very sinful you fit scripture in defense of your presupposition. When God said he planned everything before the foundation of the world, you just want to throw that passage out. It actually means that God preordained, forknew and predestined. There’s tons of scriptures that talk about predestination. But yet you disregard them and try to contextualize them. Let me give you another example, Jesus said any sin will be forgiven,even blasphemous the Son of Man, but blasphemy of the Holy spirit is not. I don’t think you can get much clearer than that. However you want to spiritualize the text or disregarded as though it doesn’t exist it says what it says why can’t you accept that. Another way that you have wrongly interpreted text is your verses in revelation that you quote as talking about the Mark of the beast. Not everyone in the world will take the mark of the beast . Some will be saved and not take the Mark some will take the mark and be damned and some won’t take the mark and won’t be saved. Read the text. what you’re quoting has nothing to do with your idea of the Mark of the beast. Of course, Armenians are notorious for taking scripture out of its context and placing ideas, their own ideas, into the text. What is even more sad is your misinterpretation of MacArthur. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the Calvinist does not believe that man must repent and have faith in Jesus Christ. In fact that’s what he teaches. You obviously know nothing about Calvinism. Jesus said that all that the father draws to me will come. That pre-supposes the idea that not everyone will come to him, because there is a wide road and the narrow road. I can’t believe you can’t see that. Let me ask you a simple question and I like an answer if you will please, what can a dead person do . Seriously what can a dead person do? Scripture teaches that we were dead before Christ made us alive . So what can a dead person do ?

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Tony Griffin

Earlier you wrote:

There are just some things that we cant understand about. And frankly I think that is quite egotistical and I’m not saying that you are, to believe that you can understand everything of the mind of God.

Yet, now you write:

It sounds like you don’t understand what a true paradox is.

First, you say none of us can understand paradoxes and then you rebuke me for not understanding. Is this just another one of your paradoxes?

In other words, I don’t understand what a true paradox is but you do. Isn’t that being rather slightly egotistical?

I wouldn’t talk about blasphemy if I were you. Blasphemy is to believe that God’s truths happily oppose one another while both are allegedly true. It’s like saying, Satan’s lies are all in opposition to God’s truths but we can reconcile them by calling it a paradox. You cannot believe that man has a free-will and simultaneously believe that He sovereignly overrides man’s free-will. That’s not free-will.

Didn’t you read the passages I quote to you, especially this one?

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL THE TRUTH, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.(Joh 16:13)

You wrote:

When God said he planned everything before the foundation of the world, you just want to throw that passage out.

Where in the Bible does God say He planned everything before the foundation of the world? Did He plan Adam and Eve’s sin? Did He plan King David’s sin with Bathsheba? Did God plan Judas’ betrayal of Jesus. Did God plan for you to believe in salvific paradoxes? That’s not in the Bible. You found it in the Calvinists’ abominable Westminster Confession of Faith.

God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass

You wrote:

Jesus said that all that the father draws to me will come.

Jesus also said:

Tony Griffin

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (Joh 12:32)

He draws all but do the all come to Him? The only way you can make a square peg fit into a round hole here is to say the “all” only refers to the elect and the predestined elite. This is what paradoxes do to you. It leads you to hell.

You wrote:

What is even more sad is your misinterpretation of MacArthur. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the Calvinist does not believe that man must repent and have faith in Jesus Christ.

OK, tell me how the reprobate (non-elect) repent and are saved?

You wrote:

What is even more sad is your misinterpretation of MacArthur. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the Calvinist does not believe that man must repent and have faith in Jesus Christ. In fact that’s what he teaches. You obviously know nothing about Calvinism.

I really think you’re the one who knows nothing about Calvinism or John MacArthur, for that matter. That’s NOT what MacArthur believes. He believes that man is completely UNABLE to believe in Jesus IN ORDER to be saved. He believes that if man was able to believe in Jesus IN ORDER to be saved, he would have been able to contribute to his salvation. And that, according to Calvinistic thinking, is blasphemy. Therefore, God needs to gift only the elect with faith AFTER they had been monergistically regenerated so that they may be ABLE to believe. This is what John MacArthur believes.

The Enigmatic Mystery – Hypocrisy in Overdrive

Please don’t call me an Arminian. I am a Bible believing eternally saved child of God. Nothing more and nothing less.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Tony Griffin

You wrote:

Let me ask you a simple question and I like an answer if you will please, what can a dead person do . Seriously what can a dead person do? Scripture teaches that we were dead before Christ made us alive . So what can a dead person do?

What can a dead person do? Well, first of all a dead person can bury his own dead.

And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. (Luk 9:57-60)

What can a dead person do? Well, secondly a dead person can please God.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: (Act 10:1-5)

Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come? And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. (Act 10:21-22)

Your problem, together with the Calvinists, is that you don’t know what the difference is between physical death and spiritual death.

Thirdly, a dead person can come to Jesus for salvation, provided he acknowledges that he is a dead and lost sinner and needs to be saved and quickened (made aliive).

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Mat 11:28-30)

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Tony Griffin

You wrote:

That’s the problem with people who are Armenian, like yourself.

I’m not an Armenian. I was born in South Africa and not Armenia.

By the way, what is worse – an Armenian or a half-baked Calvinist/Arminian like yourself? Don’t blame me of arrogant facetiousness. You’re the one who admitted that you are 50% Calvinist and 50% Arminian.

Ryan
Guest
Ryan

This is a very serious problem with Christians. This is exactly why people think we are a bunch of wackos. Instead of sharing the gospel with the world, telling them about the good news, loving people and our brothers and sisters in Christ, avoiding all appearances of evil, being a light in a very dark dark world, we are sitting here reading these extremely misleading, junking articles that are completely irrelevant, and have absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with our, or anyone elses salvation. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Get out there and do what you were called to do instead of reading and commenting on some non sense article that is in no way shape or form bringing anyone to jesus! incase non of you noticed this world is going to hell and it is our RESPONSIBILITY to help these poor souls. If you sit back and do nothing you are just as equally guilty in the eyes of the Lord. These are our brothers, sisters, friends, coworkers. Knock of the nonesense and get out there and make your Lord proud of you. Fight the good fight and be proud of it. It doesnt matter the color of the carpet in a burning building. All that matters is the exit signs God bless all of you. May he give you all the strength, wisdom, and discernment

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Dear Ryan

You said “You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Get out there and do what you were called to do instead of reading and commenting …”

ohno That’s right Ryan, you should be totally ashamed of yourself! Scratch/

A lamb
Guest
A lamb

Tony Griffin wrote:
“Natasha, What’s going on above is called circular reasoning. The fact of the matter is if you look at the Greek text Jesus was very clear when he said ANY sin is forgivable but the one sin that is not forgivable is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. He didn’t say SOME sins he said ANY sin is forgiven with the exception of that one heinous act of blasphemy.”

Right…and it is extremely obvious…that taking the mark of the beast IS blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Unpardonable. God was quite clear that those who take it will *not* be forgiven. There is only one sin that is not forgiven. Taking the mark of the beast IS blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Don’t take it.