The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints

Assurance of Salvation

The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation (Once Saved, Always Saved) and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints (Once CHOSEN, Always CHOSEN)

There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Calvinism’s version of ‘once saved, always saved’ and the BIBLICAL version of Assurance of Salvation.

You see, Calvinists believe you are CHOSEN by God before you are born, therefore you are actually ‘ONCE CHOSEN, ALWAYS CHOSEN’.  If you are Elect, you can’t become un-elect!   The Biblical version is WE HAVE FREE WILL, when you come to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you are REGENERATED;  the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and HE SEALS YOU, and your name is written in to the book of Life.

Philippians 4:3    “Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.”

Revelation 3:5 also makes is clear that once a name is written in the book of life, Jesus PROMISES that He will never blot it out.

Revelation 3:5    “The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.”

Who are those who have conquered? Well these are those who have overcome the trials of earthly life and are genuinely saved.   In Revelation, Jesus was speaking to all the Churches, and He promises to acknowledge us before His Own Father and the angels, those whose names are written in the book of life.   Unfortunately (Revelations 20:15) reveals the fate of those whose names that are NOT written in the book of life and they go to the lake of fire

Revelation 20:15    And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

In Revelation 13:8 and Revelation  21:27, we find the references to the “Lamb’s book of life”,  in which are also names of all those who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ. The Lamb who has been “slain from the creation of the world” has a book in which are written all those who have been redeemed by His sacrifice. They are the ones who will enter the Holy City, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10) and who will live forever in heaven with God. Since the book of life is that which records all who have eternal life through the Lamb, it’s clear that the book of life and the Lamb’s book of life are one and the same.

When the Holy Spirit comes to abide in us, he stays there foreverHe does not come and go and come and go each time you fall into some kind of sin.

John 14:16   “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever. “

The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in (Ephesians 1:13-14) where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 1:13-14    “13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”   

The envision of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who are genuinely born again, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to abide in the believer until the day of redemption. Kind of like making a down payment/deposit on a house or a car, God has provided all believers with a DEPOSIT on their future relationship with Him by sending the Holy Spirit to abide in them. The fact that all believers are sealed with the Spirit is also seen in (2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30).

2 Corinthians 1:22   Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”   

Ephesians 4:30  “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”


Now, BEFORE Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, before the NEW COVENANT, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people.  The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then He departed from him:

1 Samuel 16:14  “But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.”

Here (1 Samuel 16:13) we read that the Holy Spirit came upon David.  But after his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him.

Psalm 51:11   “Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.”

In (Exodus 31:2-5) we read that the the Holy Spirit filled Bezaleel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle, but this is not described as a permanent relationship.

The Holy Spirit filled Elizabeth when she heard about Mary’s conception and her baby leaped in her womb.

Luke 1:41   “And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost

But all of this changed beginning on the day of Pentecost, (Acts 2) the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers.  Pentecost was the commissioning of the Christian church and the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us and never forsake us.

Now, understand this, while the Holy Spirit will never leave a GENUINE believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” or “grieve the Holy Spirit”

Quenching the Holy Spirit:  1 Thessalonians 5:19   “Quench not the Spirit.”

Grieving the Holy Spirit:   Ephesians 4:30   “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Sin ALWAYS has consequences in our relationship with Jesus. While our relationship with God is SECURE in Jesus Christ, UNCONFESSED SIN sin in our lives WILL hinder our relationship with God and it will quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to ask Jesus for forgiveness of our sins because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).   So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the reward and joy of His presence in our lives will feel far away, because sin drives a wedge between us and God and we are effectively distancing ourselves from Jesus.

As Christians SEALED by the Holy Spirit you will still sin, but if you are genuinely born again, the Holy Spirit will CHASTISE you every time you sin and you will sooner than later repent of your sins.  But there are people who PROFESS to be Christian and they do not have the Holy Spirit in then.  These are people who can speak Jesus’ name, they go to church, even have big ministries teaching people the bible and they sound so intelligent, but they have not been REGENERATEDbecause they refuse to give up their sinful ways, they refuse to pick up their cross and follow Jesus.

Luke 14:27   “Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.”

They think they can have it both ways.

2 Timothy 3:5   They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its powerSo avoid people like these.

They have bad fruit, they follow doctrines of demons, and they mingle with evil people and very easily compromise the Word of God for the sake of ‘unity’.

Satan always does twist scripture for his own advantage and tell people that at an alter call if they just pray the sinners pray they will be saved and never lose it, but God knows who is GENUINELY saved and who isn’t.  We CAN’T fool Him.  People CAN FOOL EACH OTHER into believing they are real Christians, when in fact they are not.  And how do we tell if they are not, well by the things they do and say (the fruit of the spirit)  – the words the speak/preach. But even then, sometimes we meet some ‘great pretenders’ some brilliant con-artists and it takes a long time to figure them out.

See this article as well:  Eternal Security – Genuinely Saved, Always Saved!

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

208 Responses

  1. Carolyn says:

    Debs, I love you guys…but…I’m not a disciple of John. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and he will lead me in his Word. If the Holy Spirit shows me something that needs changing in my life and doctrine, then I will change. John is my brother. I will listen to John if he wants to discuss things without taking a position of “I know more than you do about the Scriptures” or without saying that I have to “learn to study the Scriptures the right way”, then I would love to discuss things. Either you believe that the Holy Spirit is able to teach us or you believe that we must all conform to OSAS doctrine. Either you believe that I am from Planet X and have green spots that cannot be removed except by believing OSAS doctrine or you believe in the individuality of the believer in Christ, maturing as the Holy Spirit leads and enables…as he/she studies the Scriptures for themselves. You can’t have it both ways.

    If being in sync with OSAS doctrine is a requirement for staying on this blog, then I will kindly decline. I am learning as I go but I don’t wish to be labelled as anything other than a believer in Christ. It seems that too many blogs have the mentality that Paul talked about…”I follow Paul” or “I follow Apollos”. I’m an old bird that isn’t falling for elitism. I’ve seen too much of it. It’s divisive. I follow Christ, period. If we can discuss Scriptures and discernment, then I’m here to discuss. But then you must promise not to keep pointing out my green spots.

    I have no doubt that John knows the Scriptures well. But there is that OSAS mindset….to me it gets us off track when we start arguing about Lordship vs Free Grace, etc. etc. etc….in which there really is no end because the struggle gets intensive and personal. If our enemy can get us arguing among ourselves rather than discussing Scripture, he has won.

    Bowing out gracefully…in Christ, Carolyn

  2. Redeemed says:

    Dear Carolyn,

    John was just trying to help you. He would never expect anyone to consider being his disciple. Good grief – he is about as humble as they come and elitist does not in any way describe him. This is a very puzzling comment.

    Apparently you do not understand the concept of “iron sharpening iron”. None of us have all the answers. But John was simply sharing some principles of Bible study that have been helpful to him and others.

    I don’t understand your opposition to OSAS – all it means is that if one is genuinely saved one is secure. We didn’t earn our salvation through works and we can’t maintain it through works.

    This discussion has been very helpful from several aspects. First it clearly draws the distinction between Bible truth and Calvinist doctrine. Then it brought to light a deceptive teaching of the gospel that leaves out repentance. I am saddened that you have found it tiresome. These are very important truths that have been twisted by false teaching and there is a need for re-inforcement and clarity.

    Certainly it is your prerogative to leave, you are free to do so, but I would exhort you to prayerfully examine your reasons for doing so. No one has done anything other than engage in honest dialogue and seek to minister the truth.

    God bless.

  3. >> John was just trying to help you. He would never expect anyone to consider being his disciple. Good grief – he is about as humble as they come and elitist does not in any way describe him. This is a very puzzling comment.

    Very puzzling comment indeed.

  4. Carolyn says:

    Debs: My puzzling comment was in reply to your puzzling comment, #180and I quote:


    Please listen to John.”

    What were you referring to then, if not to what we have been discussing?

    Redeemed: OSAS doctrine differs from how I see things in that it makes it impossible for a person to walk away from his original faith. If it was only what you said in comment #182

    Quote: “I don’t understand your opposition to OSAS – all it means is that if one is genuinely saved one is secure. We didn’t earn our salvation through works and we can’t maintain it through works.”

    I would agree….without question. But I still see that a person has a choice to walk away…and I also see that many people have walked away.

    I also do not dispute that John is a very kind person who is deeply knowledgable about the Word. If I wasn’t true to my own beliefs, I would like to agree with him because he has been gentle in his approach and has taken the time to explain his views to me.

    However, at this point, I have listened to both sides of the argument of OSAS and, as well, I have my own paradigm that is not easily shifted. I’m still not convinced. Telling me that I need to learn how to study the word is not going to change my mind. That’s all I was meaning.

    Having made that point before, I thought Debs was telling me to listen to John…again….

  5. Truthful Conversation says:


    Please do not leave DTW. I personally find your posts very interesting and thought provoking.

    From my experience over the time that I have known him, John’s only ‘agenda’ is to help others understand the scripture clearly.

    I do understand that sometimes it is hard to accept it when someone disagrees with your stance on things. You are right in saying that we all need to ultimately lean on the Holy Spirit for our understanding, and not take the word of man over the Bible. I think we would ALL agree there, as this is, afterall, discernment site and Debs is here to expose false teaching.

    I know that John is just concerned that you will be misled. I perceive that you might have felt a little insulted, because you feel that you DO know how to study scripture, and I am not saying that you do not study correctly. Hey, I am probably the most unlearned one here! I have learned so much from John and Debs, but again, ultimately, I rely on the Word and the Holy Spirit’s lead.

    I have had some differences with John, and I have questioned him on things. I have disagreed with Redeemed on certain things too. I think we all need to be thankful for the opportunity that God has given us to fellowship, on DTW, with like-minded Christians. There will be times when we will disagree, and I DO think that we should be careful not to offend those who ask genuine questions, and/or those who see some things differently. As long as it is all open for discussion, and we treat each other with kindness and grace.

    Not for one moment do I believe that Debs should tolerate false teaching (and she won’t).. but there is a BIG difference between those that try to foist there false doctrines on others, and those that seek to sharpen iron with iron.

    I myself have struggled with OSAS and all that goes with it.. even after reading what has been written here and elsewhere. The way I do things is to discuss my thoughts and beliefs with Christians that I trust.. and then I go away and seek the Holy Spirit’s teaching. If I still cannot agree with what I read or agree with my friends, I will surrender it to Jesus. I cannot tell you how many times an issue has suddenly become crystal clear to me.

    I agree Carolyn, sometimes it is best to put things aside, and none of us should make others feel that we are ‘pushing’ our beliefs on them. We all learn and walk in different stride. None of us know everything and there will always be unanswered questions.

    I am not accusing anyone of anything and I am not judging anyone here, I am merely trying to make us all think about our priorities and our heart attitude towards others. I include myself in what I have written.

  6. Carolyn says:

    @ Redeemed, as I was doing a bit o’ housework, my mind was still mulling over what you said:

    Comment #182: “Apparently you do not understand the concept of “iron sharpening iron”. None of us have all the answers. But John was simply sharing some principles of Bible study that have been helpful to him and others.”

    Yes, I understand the concept of Iron sharpening iron. Perhaps you think I was trashing this particular thread as a waste of time. No no no! Certainly not. For myself, I learned some things and it made me think…but we were starting to go in circles…time for me to stand back and reflect. If you wish to continue with the discussion, don’t let me stop you.

    You also said: “This discussion has been very helpful from several aspects. First it clearly draws the distinction between Bible truth and Calvinist doctrine. Then it brought to light a deceptive teaching of the gospel that leaves out repentance. I am saddened that you have found it tiresome. These are very important truths that have been twisted by false teaching and there is a need for re-inforcement and clarity.”

    You are assuming something that just isn’t true. The discussion was very helpful. I didn’t find it tiresome at all. And I’m sorry if I gave that impression.

    Actually, if I gave that impression, I’m glad you want clarification. I made my point, I need to step back from the process. I don’t want to argue…I suppose it is personal preference. Just present to me the facts and the Scripture and allow me to make my decision.

    With some of those pushing the “extreme grace sans repentance”, the conversation was deteriorating and getting a bit personal. (I thought) So…yes, I think the thread was educational for all who participated with civility and respect for each other’s thoughts.

    Hope that puts things in a little better perspective for you. And that’s all I have on my little mind at the moment….stay tuned….

  7. John Chingford says:

    Dear Carolyn

    re comments 179, 180 & 181

    I wrote in 179 warning about the Ex Preacherman site that Holly has gone over to as being a dangerous site. I wrote an email to Debs asking if she could show my exhortation to Holly in the “recent comments”.

    When Debs asked you to listen to me, I assumed she meant Holly, not you. I thought you would realise that, by the context. However, maybe Debs wanted you to take note about my warnings of EXP just in case you (or others) went over to them. I don’t believe she was instructing you to become a follower of my teachings.

    I certainly do not expect you or anybody to be my disciple (shudder the thought) but I DO try to exhort my brothers/sisters to become disciples of Jesus and to GET INTO the Word!

    Having clarified that. My last comment was to show characteristics of the EX P site, showing:

    1) they are too elitist and vindictive of all those who don’t believe exactly as they believe – they also ostracise such people, NOT publishing anything from those they think are heretics (they called me a heretic and then deleted their comment to give visitors the impression that they have a “nice” site).

    2) They are far too nit picking over words

    3) Too heavy handed in using brainwashing techniques.

    4) But most of all they are false teachers who tell unbelievers that they do not need to repent until after they believe and they separate repentance from belief, when the scriptures are clear that repentance AND Godly sorrow are part/parcel of the same conversion experience WITH belief – cannot be separated, they are ONE event in a TRUE conversion.

  8. >> When Debs asked you to listen to me, I assumed she meant Holly, not you.

    Oh crickey!! I didn’t read the comment properly. OOPPS!

    Sorry Carolyn!!! I mean Holly!

    *bangs head on desk*

  9. Carolyn says:

    Debs…no wonder you get headaches. 🙂 Stop with the head banging. It’s a dangerous practice!

    Ok..we’re all good. Agreed. Thanks for the comments everyone! I’m feelin’ the love again….

  10. Redeemed says:

    Thank you Carolyn for the clarification. I understand stepping back and reflecting. Not a problem – appreciate you taking the time to explain. Blessings!

  11. Carolyn

    Ahh, LOL… that was funny! 🙂

  12. Carolyn says:

    John: I read a little over at the Ex Preacherman site. Free Grace sans Repentance…I tell ya. Deception at its finest. The thing about the human heart is that it wicked. It is deceptive. It is twisted. So can we trust it? No.

    The thing about some of these sites and false teachers is that they are wicked, deceptive and twisted. Can we trust them even though their words are smoother than oil and sweeter than honey? No. They don’t play by any rules except their own. The end justifies the means. Yes, I’m talking about so called Christians. And incidentally, so was Peter:

    2 Peter 2:18-20
    New International Version (NIV)
    18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

    We must be committed to Truth, not our own, not somebody else’s but to the Word of Truth.

    To Holly, Sue and Jarrod. Don’t let yourselves be seduced by the lips of a flattering reprobate. Rather listen to the Word of God and let it penetrate past your own preferences, past your own deceptive heart. The Lord’s own compassion will be your support. Listen to the words of Paul…

    Acts 20:29-31
    New International Version (NIV)
    29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

    Love you guys! Read the Word!

  13. Carolyn says:

    Took this off of the statement of faith on the Ex Preacherman site.

    “16. Lordship or Commitment salvation, or “making Jesus Lord of your Life for salvation” is un-scriptural. God’s Word says we as believers should determine to allow Jesus be the Lord of our lives in obedience to our Savior for proper fellowship; but it should NEVER be intimated or taught that it is a requirement for gaining or keeping our salvation. John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:10

    17. Repent (metanoeo) means a change of mind. Repentance is absolutely essential in salvation and the Greek the word repent means a change of mind — from any idea of religion that man may have, to an acceptance of God’s way of salvation in Jesus Christ alone. Repentance does not in any sense include a demand for a change of conduct or “turning from sin” to gain or keep, before or after salvation as that would entail a works salvation message. Acts 20:21; II Corinthians 7:8-10; Matthew. 21:32.”

    It sounds like the world’s version of “Love means never having to say you’re sorry.”

    Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in WORKS they DENY Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good WORK reprobate.

    reprobate: a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation

    In reading some of the comments on the Expreacherman site about Billy Graham, I can see that Sue, in particular, is not a novice when it comes to preaching free grace. Also noted were some of the other comments which were a little untrue.

    Sadly, there seems to be a disconnect from logic when it comes to grace seekers. They want it so badly, that they depart from the heart and soul of the Word. There are many verses that they choose to overlook about forsaking a sinful lifestyle which seem to escape their focus since their minds seem absorbed and obsesses with “grace”. They see everything through the lens of grace even to the distortion of faith and obedience.

    Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    Here’s what the Expreacherman says to Jarrod in the comment section:
    “But thankfully, as believers, we are secure in Christ Jesus whether we are obedient to the Lord’s leading or not. We are assured His blessings if we are obedient, His discipline if we are not, but guaranteed always safe and secure in Jesus.”

    In contradiction, here’s what Jesus says to us:
    John 14: 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
    and John
    1 John 3:24
    The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

    I’m gonna play it safe and believe Christ over the Expreacherman

  14. michael says:

    You are heretics with your Perseverance of the Saints false gospel teaching.

  15. michael

    Errrrrr….. clearly you did not read the article.

    Why don’t people READ the article? hmmm….

  16. John Chingford says:

    re 194
    Sounds like this Michael (another Michael – not the one who regularly writes good stuff here)has visited us from the EX Preacherman site. It is that sort of response you get there if you write things they don’t like.

  17. Carolyn says:

    Michael, my point was that salvation is not a neat, rehearsed formula wrapped up with a tidy little bow like a “free pass” to the heaven or a “get out of jail free” card. It is also not an all inclusive cake walk for everyone who has “made the decision for Christ”.

    It is a walk with a real living Lord and Saviour on a narrow path with only a few others willing to stay with the Truth long enough to honestly accept the salvation that Christ is offering…

    Consider this passage:
    Luke 13:23-25
    23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
    24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
    25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    I’m not the one who said it Michael…”strive to enter”…what does that mean to you? I hate these labels that people are throwing around…perseverance of the saints, lordship salvation…after awhile everyone is just a label and Christ is nowhere to be seen as the fists are flying and the legs and arms get all tangled up in the scuffle. Believe the words of Christ. Keep him central…labels are not the thing.

  18. Carolyn says:

    In case someone missed my point about the statement of faith, I will enlighten you:

    Did you notice that in #17…he used double speak? First he said that repentance was necessary for salvation and then he said it wasn’t necessary to keep you saved. Repentance is a way of life, an attitude. If you begin with it, you must end with it or what’s the point?

    Love is never having to say you’re sorry. See how far you get in a relationship with that attitude…

    Also, the scriptures he used for proving that the convert need not follow through with a repentance as a life commitment just proved the opposite.

    Just because someone says something, doesn’t mean it’s true. Trust no man. It may sound right but check it against the Word for yourself. How we love our formulas! It puts us back in the driver’s seat. Formulas produce fake sheep. Lies produce false sheep. Half truths produce false sheep.

    My advice? Get yer doctrine from the Word. Take off them rosy coloured, free grace glasses and see clearly for the first time in your life.

  19. Redeemed says:

    Carolyn, Jack over at XPM is in his 80’s, retired from the ministry. He’s been reading the Bible through those distorted lenses for many a year so not likely to change now. Too bad he didn’t just ride off into the sunset and give it a rest.

    He is a perfect example of coming so close to the truth but yet missing the mark. He could have missed it by a mile – same thing. But he apparently has snowed his followers who seem to be sincere folks who rightly denounce LS. But in so doing have fallen into another trap.

    We can only hope that Holly will check back in here and see the mistake of linking to XPM.

  20. I actually realised that the false teaching over at XPM is what Rick Warren preaches in his Purpose Driven books…Rick Warren insists on an non-repentant gospel – a sinner does not need to repent at any stage, they just need to ask Jesus into their lives, then ‘follow Jesus’ and He will sort you out. No conviction, no repentance required. Just Jesus. <--- That is a false gospel.

  21. Carolyn says:

    Debs, I can just see Christ saying to Rick Warren on Judgement Day. Where did you see the words “Purpose Driven” in my gospel?

    Redeemed: A watered down gospel is so far off the mark that they not only miss it, they decimate it.

    Purpose Driven and Free Grace is all about ME. The true gospel of salvation is all about Christ…the real one. I am a repentant sinner saved by grace, past, present, future….till this old mortal puts on immortality. Can’t wait for that day!

  22. John Chingford says:


    I wrote a reply to you in the “General comments” section. I haven’t seen you replying for several days so am unsure if you saw the reply. As my comment has now left the list of “recent 45 comments” I decided to send it to you, again.

    However, as the topic is more suitable to THIS article, I have placed it here instead. It will appear on my next comment.

  23. John Chingford says:

    Hi Dan (as promised). Also Carolyn this may answer one of your old questions/statements also.

    Regarding Hebrews 10:26-31 especially verses 26-29

    “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

    If you consider the whole book of Hebrews and the history behind why the book was written, you will understand what the writer meant by “If we deliberately keep on sinning”. The sinning he is referring to is the sin of returning back to the OT laws. They were acting like the sacrifice of Jesus was not enough and that they needed to follow the law also (like Catholics today).

    “no sacrifice for sins is left”. Of course, if they do not consider the absolute perfect sacrifice as sufficient then what other sacrifice can replace it? There IS NO OTHER sacrifice good enough.

    “but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God”

    The key words here are “enemies of God”. Born again believers (including you) ARE NOT ENEMIES OF GOD. The writer was using a bit of sarcasm or irony to show how ludicrous it was to return to OT law and animal sacrifice. He was showing them that there was nothing to be gained by it because (in sarcasm) he is saying, if you want to live like that (like the unbelievers) then you should understand that these unbelievers will be consumed so why follow their ways, do you also want to be consumed?”

    However, he goes on to say “How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

    He again is referring to those unbelievers that they will be severely dealt with for rejecting the ultimate perfect sacrifice. He is also pointing out that if unbelievers will be severely dealt with then what about believers who do the same thing? It is a rhetorical question in showing the logic that believers living like that makes no sense and will cause them to ALSO be punished by God. However, punishment of bellievers is WHOLLY different from the punishment of unbelievers. Believers will NOT be sent to hell but will be chastised by a loving Father. The key word is “deserves” to be punished.

    However, in chapter 12:6 it says “because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son”. Punishment does not mean hell for a believer.

    Then in the context of chapter 10 it says in verse 39 “But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved”. All born again believers are “those who believe and are saved” PERIOD!!!

    The writer to the Hebrews was specifically using a hypothetical argument to make a major point to the Judaizers in their midst who were troubling the true believers, advising the believers to NOT follow them. Why??? Because of all the reasons he gave throughout the book of Hebrews.

  24. Wayne Jack says:

    Hi friends I’m asking for help finding Bibles for the family. We all have ones that need to go.

    I tried to find another one here NIV(1984), KJV|169342|57355
    but they all seem to do this > 2008 a 25% revision to the over 20,000 in-text study notes? Why do they need to revise??? …I know why I just don’t agree with it.

    I have several, the one I use the most is an amplified zondervan that I’ve had for 20+ yrs. and I have compared much scripture to KJV here and found that its accurate 80-90% of the time, it’s the other 10-20% that concerns me. I don’t want another zonder because of the (10-20%) and fact they are a large publisher.
    My wife is not an adiv Bible reader so I was trying to find one easy to read and understand and large print (11 or 12min)
    so hopefully she will become an avid reader. I want another one too and ones for my sons and daughter, then I was quickly reminded why I haven’t bought one yet which is because of the difficulty finding one that hasn’t been revised, twisted or tortured. Christianbook has over 45 different translations in there bible finder, ridiculous. I have spent hrs doing this, it shouldn’t take hrs, lol

    I’m getting very frustrated trying to find ones that aren’t revised.
    A bible site recommendation please?

    God Bless and thank you in advance,


  25. hemraj says:

    what about the teaching of james who says that man is not saved by faith only but by work
    or the verses apostle paul wrote work out for your salvation with fear and trembling

  26. Christo says:

    You leave me very puzzled. I came here from the page where Prof Malan refutes Calvinism. I wanted to see on what grounds you could turn his comment on Hunt being a 1 Point Calvinist against him. There I could not see how he condones moderate Calvinists. He does say there are those and in man’s nature you will surely find them. We do not all understand or even know the details of, say, our faith. Profs are called that since they nitpicked their subject, even though still fallible. Refer Ravi Zaccharias on cultural Christians. On Point 5, his first comment is this;”The Bible teaches otherwise”. His references there has exactly the same trend as yours to John 15:4 here. As usual I marked my Bibletime reading a few verses before the quoted one. I read in several Bibles, English and Afrikaans. From the first verse it is clear by, not what Paul, Peter, John or with all due respect, whoever else said, but what Christ Himself says; “1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer. 
    2 Every branch in me that doesn’t bear fruit, he takes away. Every branch that bears fruit, he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 
    3 You are already pruned clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 
    4 Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch can’t bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you, unless you remain in me. 
    5 I am the vine. You are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 
    6 If a man doesn’t remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 
    7 If you remain in me, and my words remain in you, you will ask whatever you desire, and it will be done for you”.

    So, according to Christ Himself it has nothing to do with the character of God, but with His actions consequential to what we decide.

    A few notes out of my own life. Calvin’s teaching go directly against Christ Himself as seen in John 3:16. This is not just a nice verse, it is key to the Gospel.  The original sin was not disobedience. It was that we, Eve then Adam, decided to distrust God. We first think then we do. Adam, as man in the house, failed to check with God first. This is where our redemption is in question. Do we trust God or not? Repentance is a process. It starts with our recognition and admission that we are sinners. Giving our hearts to Christ is just the beginning. You have to accept Christ as your ultimate Saviour as well. God says if you fall in sin, it’s OK, He knows we can make honest mistakes and errors, but if you indulge in it, it’s definitely NOT OK. We don’t even tell the same joke to the same people twice. Reading 3:16 again, it struck me that God respects us and our free will. He offers and is committed to our redemption as can be seen in Isaiah 43:1 and 45:4. However; since God is free will itself, how can he deny us that? This is the conundrum He faces. He needs to “convince” us to decide by free will to follow Him and accept His salvation. The main issue is our trust He lost in Eden. Nothing better than a sick soap opera. We fell for nothing else but malicious gossip, even though God honoured His commitment to us by visiting in the evening breeze.

    It is a simple case of enough is enough! Since we are made in His image what else can you expect? Taking a leaf out of corporate experience, if you let the company down, you get fired! Free will is never suspended. Nietsche junior died insane once he recanted on Christ. This just hits me now. How can we have an equal and honest personal relationship with God if we are not as committed as He is? If we do not keep up our side of that bargain?

  27. Dear Christo

    Please quote me next time so I can get a good idea of what you are speaking about. Sorry, I wrote this many years ago, and we have answer thousands of questions since on all different topics. I get a little confused as I can’t remember everything. 🙂

    After reading your comment a number of times I do believe, well….I think… I understand what you’re trying to saying.

    You said “I wanted to see on what grounds you could turn his comment on Hunt being a 1 Point Calvinist against him”

    Prof Malan did not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved. He believed you would lose your salvation. Prof Malan said that Dave Hunt was a 1 point Calvinist who believed in the
    P of the TULIP for Perseverance of the Saints.

    The problem is Dave Hunt is NOT a 1 point Calvinist and neither did Dave Hunt believe in the P of the TULIP for Perseverance of the Saints.

    There is a very big difference between Calvinism’s Perseverance of the Saints and having biblical assurance of ones salvation aka once saved always saved.

    In fact Calvinism’s Perseverance of the Saints is is the exact opposite of biblical assurance of salvation. Hence my article that clearly explains the difference between the two. Calvinists have to continually strive / persevere in their works aka Lordship Salvation and never have assurance that they are in fact one of God’s Elect chosen before the foundation of the world.

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