Angus Buchan, Benny Hinn and God TV

Tom (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

97 Responses

  1. Moemsie says:

    Thnk you for placing this article. It confirms my suspicions. What a sad state it is. Its more about peddling merchandise! I was wondering when Angus became `known` how long before everything that rolls off his lips will be `pontified` in book form, cd ,movies et all`! I cannot judge the state of his soul-but he surely stepped into the money racket-even if he does not coining it some others are -he has become a commodity.

    What is the connection of the River Ministries with God Tv? I know that Andre Roebert (dad started TBN) is quite a big shot here in eastern cape. In the River` bookstores Uncle Angus is smiling from many shelves.

    Also just strange that when Prince William and his brother visited the Eastern Cape last year they were hosted at Mansfield farm(has a outdoor restaurant operating in Decembers called Black Rock. ( also the Beyond Adventure campus is at Mansfield farm. (Port Alfred)by the Roeberts! The crest of TBN looks very similar to prince Charles ` Crest?

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I am not sure what the Rivers Ministries affiliation is with God TV, but I can tell you that Rivers Ministry and Angus Buchan could not be more in each others pockets.

    Interesting information regarding TBN and the Princes.

    As for Angus’ soul. We can pray that he comes to find Jesus Christ asap, because time is running out.

  3. RONNIE ROSS - ALLEN says:

    i dont understand why people cant leave uncle angus alone GOD those him to open my eyes and realise that without GOD im nothing on this earth do you realy think 500000 men will go to a man who dont preach the WORD rite please no one is prefect in this sinful world of us every one makes mistakes uncle angus please prove these people wrong

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    When he starts to preach the GOSPEL TRUTH we will leave him alone.

  5. Hilgard Muller says:

    Narrow is the way and few are they who find it ……..

  6. Mathys says:

    Angus has never judged anyone the bible says dont judge other people why are you, you all should try and learn the bible the way angus knows it then you will not critisize him.


  7. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    WOW, Angus changed your life and not Jesus Christ. Well go figure.

  8. Lorraine says:

    Sho, the last few months my live has been changed… by a lot of things, including Jesus who let me see the things around me as they are. He opened my eyes to see the wonders He do every day, for people really close to me. I have also realised there’s a lot of false profeteers and people who claim to be Jesus Christ. Sorry, they can’t change my opinion. There is only one Jesus and the right place to start looking for Him is in the Bible, NOT IN OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!

  9. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Keep searching for the truth and stay on the narrow path :)

  10. Derek Gohl says:

    I really really love all the faith,hope and love preachers because they build up,strengthen,encourage the body of Christ.Don’t give your ear to all the negative,cynical,critical comments from those who think it their ministry to warn,devour and tear apart and peddle fear and distrust.Listen to positive preaching,and let the annointing of God lead you,and the voice of God..not the negative critics.Turn their voices off..and you will become a strong christian.a mountain moving,devil defeating world overcommer,not a fearful,cringing,moaning chritian with rapture fever because they are losing their battles against satan due to not beleiving in the blood bought victory of Jesus..Viva the blood,power,dominion..Jesus said He gives us power over all the power of the devil and that greater works shall we do..go forth and conquer and let the cynics crawl under a bush and hide in fear..lotsa luv in Christ,Derek Gohl

  11. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Derek Gohl

    >> I really really love all the faith,hope and love preachers because they build up,strengthen,encourage the body of Christ.Don’t give your ear to all the negative,cynical,critical comments from those who think it their ministry to warn,devour and tear apart and peddle fear and distrust.Listen to positive preaching,and let the annointing of God lead you,and the voice of God..not the negative critics.


  12. Michelle says:

    Hi D,

    I have been reading this site, and I do agree with alot of things you say. But which prechers are living and speaking the truth? Seeing that you have studied all of them.

  13. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> Seeing that you have studied all of them.

    Really? All of them? There are possibly a few million. No, not all. Not even close. There are many good ones out there. I recommend Professor Johan Malan (for now – things can change.) To be honest I don’t want to recommend people because YOU have the Bible. And in that book is everything you need to know. Where did I learn from? Men? No, from the Bible and listening to the Holy Spirit.

  14. James says:

    Angus Buchan is a great follower(MAN) and preacher of God, never have I seen him punt his own products. Get your facts straight. Fact is if you can make Angus out as a lier who helped South Africans get closer to their bibles then you will make many half believers fall who has not grown in faith However its their choice to believe what you write or not.

  15. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    This is NOT about PRODUCTS. This is about what HE PREACHES. Read this article:

  16. Burning Lamp says:

    James, what is a half believer?

  17. James says:

    Burning Lamp wrote:

    James, what is a half believer?

    A person who has not completely decided 100% to believe and trust (Jesus, God and Holy spirit) but have heard and felt what its about. Including backsliders.

  18. Burning Lamp says:

    James, there is no such thing as a half believer. It is like being pregnant – either you are or you aren’t. There is no half way with Jesus. Either you have the Holy Spirit or you don’t. And a back slider is not a half believer – he is a believer who has slipped in the faith – if he is a true believer with the Holy Spirit dwelling in him, the Lord will draw him back to walking with the Lord.

  19. Michael says:

    Sorry James…there is no such thing…half-saved and half-condemned.One foot in heaven and the other in hell.
    On a very much lighter note…it reminds me of a German colleague (who had a rather abrasive humour) who interrupted my conversation when I referred to a business associate as an ACQUAINTANCE…saying that in Germany there is no such person as an acquaintance…you are eizer ze friend or ze enemy !

  20. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    LOL that was funny Michael.

  21. Nathan says:

    I do want to reply to all that comment on this site. Dr Malan,Debora, James and the rest Grace and peace to you!
    I do not hear the voice of Christ in any of these comments, never never never have I heard Christ coming to me in a harsh tone or condemming way, He is gentle and Humble in Spirit, His words seasoned with grace edifing encouraging.
    The Bible says Clearly(the words of Christ Himself) that there is only one that’s good and that is God, so the only good that can come from man is God. Talking against men that’s whole life is dedicated to the work of God. If that man is still moving towards the purity of truth it is only God that can lead the man there. Speaking against such a man is speaking against the very work of God.
    The thing we must be VERY careful of is charging other desiples, brothers, of deception if God Himself hasn’t exalted you to such a position. How would you know if God exalted you to such a position? You would have the glory of Christ revealed within your soul. Didn’t Jesus say don’t try to take the splinter out of your brothers eye before you have removed the beam out of your own eye.
    The truth about Gods word is so pure and consealed that only the pure in heart will be able to see it, and it is so singular in message that it realy speak of one only and that is Jesus(Salvation). James says purify your heart you double minded. If the message was not singular it could not bring you to singularity of mind as your heart still would have had options. The bible from genises to revelations speak of but one thing, Salvation, the translation back into Paradise.
    Now truth is in one alone and that is Christ who send the Holy Spirit to teach us in all things and what He teaches is truth and is no lie. The Spirit searches the deep things of God yet the natural man cannot receive them. These are discovered through a commited lifestyle of prayer, prayer not talking to God or praying in tongues but a state of silent worship beholding(thinking, meditating) one only and that is the name of Christ. And everytime the Holy Spirit reveals truth He will confirm it by revealing it in your soul as a testimony. Accepting Christ is entering the way into the Kingdom of Heaven, the only message Jesus realy spoke about. It does NOT mean you have entered the Kingdom, else you would have heaven the reality of everlasting life revealed within you. Lets not forget Jesus said that unless our rigteousness exceeds that of the farisees we would by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Not now not ever? 2Pet1 if these things are yours and abound you will never stumble and so a abundant entrance will be supplied to you into the everlasting kingdom of our saviour Jesus Christ. 1pet receiving the END of your faith the salvation of you souls. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Warning every man teaching every man with all prudence to present them perfect in Christ Jesus. And the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men teaching them to deny all ungodliness worldly lusts and pasions looking for the blessed hope of the appearing of our Great God and saviour Jesus.

    These are the only things we are supposed to be concerened about. One of the core messages is do not judge, lets not do this as we would put ourselves on very dangerous turf. And maybe be bared from the truth of the knowledge of Christ.

    Love all of you, lets unite as Paul said, with one mind one hope one faith contending for the faith of the Gospel, and leave aside all dusputes over useless things which will increase the level of ungodliness. Lets commit ourselves to stay on the narrow path and take one teacher the Holy Spirit and Plead towards our Holy God to bless us with the knowledge of truth, that we may enter the reality of eternal life, lets concern ourself with this only. The world its going to be burned up by fire, the Fire of God’s glory, which we are called to obtain.
    They only way into the kingdom is to take Jesus as our teacher to stay comitted in prayer, to love people(all good and bad right or wrong pationatelly) and you will never be unfruitfull in the knowledge of our Christ.

    God bless your souls abundantly, please accept that I will never say something with harmfull intent, but my wish is for everybody to meat with jesus face to face.

  22. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Woohaaahhh I think you need to be very careful of charging me and make sure YOU HAVE ALL YOUR FACTS IN PLACE. Angus is as false as they get and I am sorry you have been taken in by him – as have millions of South Africans. Who is more important to you, one silly man with a hat on leading MILLIONS astray or the millions he is willfully leading astray?

    I DO NOT UNITE with false Christians and NEVER WILL. Genuine Christian unity is all about REAL Christians coming together and taking a stand for the TRUTH and not having to hold hands with the false ones as well for the sake of being nice.

    After you have read ALL my articles on Angus and his friends you can come back and say sorry to me.


  23. Nathan says:

    Dear Deborah.

    Would like to hear the what is your perception of the truth? See the bible is a revelation of One and that is Jesus. Before the bible was printed in 1516 there was only but 200 different viewpoints on Christianity, today 500 years of bible study later there is a good 32000 and growing number of viewpoints but only one truth. My prayer daily is but for God to lead me into the singularity of truth. Until such time I will but call myself a desiple of Christ and not a Christian for to say I am Christlike if I still dont bare the cery image is but blasphemy. The truth is singular What is your version, your believe?

    Please please do not take me wrongly, as you I am totally committed to Truth. I do believe thou that there is part truth in every man and that I seek.


    So yes I drink with much caution, and the whole point is to find the pure Holy Spirit baptism, for only by that can people really be set free.

    What is in short your viewpoint on the narrow road and the singularity of the knowledge of truth?

    Be blessed.

  24. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:



    And I really can’t stand it when people say ‘be blessed’ when in fact it’s just words. Go seek the truth first before you come with silly statements like, “Would like to hear the what is your perception of the truth?’ and ‘What is in short your viewpoint on the narrow road and the singularity of the knowledge of truth?’ oh bla bla bla this is not the Sci-Fi channel. My word… get real.

  25. Nathan says:

    Deborah why on earth are u so easily offended? You dont care after I merely asked you a simple harmless question?
    And ja it is not just words to me Deborah, once again judgement, towards a person which you now not.
    God looks at all through the consiousnes of Love alone, not judgement, you should know that.

    Be blessed or not you choose.

  26. Burning Lamp says:

    Nathan, did you read the accounts in the Bible about Jesus cleansing the temple? Then you would know the ANGER that our Lord has against those who turn His Church into profit-making venture and mislead His people.

    Our God is a holy God – a consuming fire – you had better hope you are truly saved and will not be around when His wrath is poured out.

  27. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I am having a REALLY BAD DAY, but no one cares. I get insulted day in and day out by people like you, but do you care about the words you speak? No. I get hit left right and center day in and day out and I sit here and take it, as I sit day in and day out answering EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE to their liking and accurately might I add BECAUSE I am held accountable by God! I have gone and done months of research, and spent HUNDREDS OF HOURS on this topic, to have YOU, Mr I Know Nothing come and give me uphill. You have the audacity to poke your finger at At Boshoff, but can’t see that Angus Buchan is just another breed of false teacher in another line of false doctrine. (Actually it’s not even another line, it’s the same line, just different group of people). So pardon me, if I TAKE OFFENCE when someone (you) says “I do not hear the voice of Christ in any of these comments, never never never have I heard Christ coming to me in a harsh tone or condemming way”. There is NOT ONE SINGLE WORD IN THIS ARTICLE THAT IS OFFENSIVE unless you love false teaching and love to side with false teachers.

    I am so sick and tired of this LOVE component. Funny how you will love your enemy but can’t find a nice word for me, the one who is supposed to be on your side. HOW ODD.

    “God looks at all through the consiousnes of Love alone, not judgement” what on earth? That sounds very new age. Give me scripture to back this statement up.

  28. Burning Lamp says:

    Nathan, you have a warped idea of what TRUE love is. It is Deborah, pouring her heart into this work, day in and day out for the sake of the truth in service of her Lord and Savior. She studies to show herself approved as the Bible says. That, sir is love. It doesn’t always come in warm fuzzies – it is often tough but it is what we need.

    Being kind to someone is caring enough to give them the unvarnished truth. You have been given a wake-up call – listen or suffer the consequences – your choice.

  29. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Thank you BL.

    People just don’t care. They seem to think that if they comment they are the only voice to be heard and then take offence when you question their meanness. This blog is not here to accommodate false teachers and their followers.

  30. Nathan says:

    Dear Deborah.

    You are right I know nothing except for the fact that Christ died for the salvation of the whole world, for me for you and everybody around us.

    All of us is part of one body so you and I are one so yes I want to tel you that I love you. And the fact that you are having such a bad day saddens me and it saddens God. One thing you must realise thou Deborah is that whatever we put out there is what we will receive. If you read my letters correctly you will see that I included myself with all I said saying if we do the wrong things we put ourselves on dangerous turf. I said this out of a point of concern for the state of your soul and mine. I did not say it to put you down or to put down your commitment to our Saviour or your caracter.
    After I left CRC a made quite a bit of statements against Pastor Att, the Lord did warn me against it I did not listen and it cost me dearly. See as soon as one do that you pick up a reproach in the heart and it blocks your heart for Spiritual growth. In my letter concerning Pastor At I only lifted out the dangers according to scripture concerning having a material focus and clearly stated that I do not wish to crusify pastor At.
    I’m so greatfull to your comitment to the truth for it is only the pure truth that opens the door of life, and it is our responsibality to seek that. So has my life been for a number of years. So I think there is much we can learn from its other and I also think there is much more worth in doing work of edification rather than to prove who are right and who is wrong. I was at Uncle Angus’ meating this year and I tell you that the power of God fell so wonderfully that it felt like God was going to pull me into heaven any second. And the absolute sincerity and love and compation in that man is really to be admired. One of the sermons He preached on waiting on the Lord, which as you surely know is the way of the prophets, so I am sure that which might not be pure at the moment the Lord will correct, the same I trust the Lord to do for me, for I know if I were in perfect purity I would have heaven in me right now.
    Math 6 the Lord teaches on love and he says love your enemies bless dont curse pray for those that spitefully use you and abuse you for if you do this you will be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. God is love, and He passed all Judgement over to His Son.
    I do now that the Fear of God is the way into God’s love as the Spirit of the fear of the Lord is the custodian of all virtues, but the end effect or purpous is the love of God which is more than we could ever be able to understand, eph 3 the perpous of the mystery that we would be strengthened with might in the inner man that you may be able to comprehend the hight and the width of Jesus’ love that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Wow what a promise.
    Lets rather focus on truths of the way into fullness than spending our days scrutinising other people, its just got so much more worth. Obtain that Glory so it can be flow freely into the world and bring true convertion unto the LORD.
    Dont sit there day by day defending yourself, it will only grow worse and worse. Lets start sharing powerful truths that would grow us into the stature of the fullness of Christ let love flow and that would just return.


  31. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> After I left CRC a made quite a bit of statements against Pastor Att, the Lord did warn me against it I did not listen and it cost me dearly. See as soon as one do that you pick up a reproach in the heart and it blocks your heart for Spiritual growth.

    Spiritual growth? You went from At Boshoff to Angus Buchan! Um…. Nathan! What part of this are you not getting? Pay attention! >> They are all from the same line of false doctrine and group of false teachers! Read it again! They are all from the same line of false doctrine and group of false teachers! Read it again! They are all from the same line of false doctrine and group of false teachers! Read it again! they are all from the same line of false doctrine and group of false teachers!

    >> I was at Uncle Angus’ meating this year and I tell you that the power of God fell so wonderfully that it felt like God was going to pull me into heaven any second. And the absolute sincerity and love and compation in that man is really to be admired. One of the sermons He preached on waiting on the Lord, which as you surely know is the way of the prophets, so I am sure that which might not be pure at the moment the Lord will correct, the same I trust the Lord to do for me, for I know if I were in perfect purity I would have heaven in me right now.

    Did you go read the articles yet? Why wont you read the articles? What is stopping you from reading all the articles on this website regarding Angus Buchan and his gang of false teachers? Why wont you read them Nathan?

    >> Lets rather focus on truths of the way into fullness than spending our days scrutinising other people

    You can’t be serious? I am trying to show you the truth and you REFUSE to see it.

    >> Dont sit there day by day defending yourself, it will only grow worse and worse.

    I am DEFENDING THE GOSPEL TRUTH, not myself. And yes it will grow worse and worse because people like you love false teaching and love to have your ears tickled by false teachers such as Angus Buchan.

    Anyhow, I have given you the opportunity to go read those articles.

    Nathan, it is common knowledge amongst genuine Christians that we are in the GREAT APOSTASY where the entire world is turning their backs on God and following false teaching (just before the anti-Christ comes) – a FALSE CHRISTIANITY is capturing the world by storm. I hope you are not going to be one of those who won’t listen to REASON.

    2 Thessalonians 2

    The Great Apostasy

    1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Do you see how much God tolerates people who REFUSE to listen to the truth? He gets very impatient and hands them OVER to deception. Pray you are not that person.

    Go READ the articles.

  32. Chris says:

    Hi Deborah

    I picked up on your communication with Nathan and I would like to say that I was once a supporter of Angus until I read some of his books and carefully listened to what he says between the lines.
    One example is his book called “Hardcore Christianity” where he speaks well of Katherine Khulman.
    I have heard him speak well of many in the NAR movement – this is of concern due to the pull he has on people in SA. If he endorses these people the uneducated and ignorant with regards to the NAR will blindly walk into the New Age church the anti-Christ is setting up.
    I have listened to many of Angus’s sermons and most of them are quite good in fact some are brilliant.
    But it is as Peter said in 2 Peter 2:1 that false teachers will bring in damnable heresies – the Greek rendering means truth with error parallel to each other. So much truth and little error will grow to mislead many. Remember a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
    As someone once said you will always find real cheese in a rat trap.
    Unfortunately as with Nathan I find what I find in most sincere, zealous Christians regarding this type of argument – the same sincere zeal Paul found in the Israelites : Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

    Just because one felt as if the thing was right and you felt so close to God does not allow for this emotion to replace the truth.

    I believe NAR is the foundation for the rule of the anti-Christ and seeing all of this draws me closer to God, because the book of Revelation tells us that the whole world will wonder (admire) after the Beast.

    So where the majority of the people admire someone does not make that person sincere. This is the trap – people go where most people think things are Ok. The deception will not be deception if error is blatantly visible – people cannot be deceived if they know that they are being taken for ride.

    This is typical of the last church dispensation “Laodicea.” The dispensation we are currently in. Laodicea does not know it is Laodicea. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    To also then conclude, I read that Nathan calls At Boshoff “Pastor At” The Bible calls those who contort Scripture: 2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

    Paul would never have had this soft approach nor did the Lord Jesus who called Pharisees a brood of vipers. Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
    Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
    Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
    Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

    Now if we are to be imitators of Christ …… and the world will hate us for doing what the Lord did, I sometimes wonder about those “Christians” who hate this type of message – how far exactly are they still in the wordl??
    Imagine the Lord Jesus approaching these people and calling them a pastor or honourable reverent.

    Are we really following in the footsteps of the Lord Jesus?

    What about love then – well Jesus said if we love him we should obey His commandments.

    One only need to read the New Testament to see how many places the Lord tells us to judge and rebuke apart from the also very important salvation message and more “positive” message needed.

    Deborah I encourage you to go on – our prayers are with you (and Nathan) remember what Paul wrote:
    1 Cor 15 : 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

  33. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Thank you Chris!

    All I want is for Nathan to read the PROOF, but he is resisting – can’t force people to do stuff, even if it’s for their OWN GOOD. :(

  34. Nathan says:


    You know what really amazes me is that you are so quick to scrutinize a persons walk with God when you dont know me at all.

    I am very much aware of the lamb with the horns who look like Jesus but is not.

    As you can recall I told you that one is my teacher and that is Jesus, so no I do not submit under any mans doctrine, As Paul said eph4 If indeed you heard Him and were taught by Him as the truth is in Jesus.

    I appresiate your pattion but I want to ask you one question.
    Do you follow accential theoligy( seeking god by the study of scripture) or Mystical theoligy ( the seeking of God through axtended hours of prayer) ?

    Sorry more than one question.
    2) What is the hope of the gospel?
    3) If you were to seek God where would you search for him.

    Now I am not going to read through all your stuff before you answer these questions.
    Carefull about false teachers you know.

  35. donna says:

    [Edited by DTW: Deleted, you were asked TO NOT COME BACK]

  36. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    This article will answer ALL your questions, but seeing that you are not reading articles, I am not sure how you are going to view my answers.

    Run along Nathan, this ‘false teacher’ (thanks for the insult AGAIN) is tired of trying to lure you into reading some articles LOL. PS, when you realise Angus is false and belongs to the New Apostolic Reformation I don’t expect you to come back and apologise to me for the things you said. I know that you are walking around with blinkers on right now so it’s pretty normal for people like yourself to act this way. So Good luck and I hope your eyes are opened up sooner rather than later.

    Anyhow, I give up. Your comments will be deleted from now on. I don’t have time for this.

  37. Nathan says:


    I read through half the page on the front saying salvation through Christ.

    If you study new testament scripture you will clearly see that salvation is the END of a obedient walk of faith.

    I will quote the scriptures.
    1 Pet 1 verse 9 receiving the end of your faith the salvation of your soul.

    Heb9 28 so christ was offered once to bear the sins of many and to those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time apart from sin for salvation.

    1Thess 3 And make you increase and abound in love towards one another just as we do to you so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints

    Col3 If then you were raised with Christ seek those things witch are above not the things of the earth,for if you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life you will appear with Him in Glory.

    2tim 2 10 therefore I endure All things for the sake of the elect that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ with eternal Glory.

    I can really go on and on and on.

    So the answers to my questions are simply 1)I follow mystical theology, the fellowship of the mystery as you would not find Jesus in Scripture, you will learn about Him. John5 38 and they search the scriptures thinking that in them they have ethernal life but they are not willing to come to me that they may have life. And these are those who testify of Me, sadly the love factor and the Way gets lost. 2)The hope of Salvation witch comes by Christs Glory. 3) You will never find God anywhere else than inside of You. Acts17 for in Him we move and have our being.

    Simple answers if your doctine is 100 correct.

    You may want to visit this site [EDITED BY DTW: THIS IS A QUAKER WEBSITE – FALSE DOCTRINE!!!!!!!]
    Will learn a lot about truth.

    Once again LOVE you all.

    Going on holiday so wont bother you any longer.

    Be blessed

  38. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Well no wonder you gave me such upheaval – you are into mysticism and a Quaker.

    AND you COMPLETELY twist John 5:38 and Acts 17

  39. Michael says:

    Tried to send reply twice….Failed???

  40. MC says:

    I have some questions:

    What actually goes on during a G12 “Deliverance” or “Liberacion” as they say in Spanish?
    What can you tell me about Pastor Guillermo Maldonado and his ministry (El Rey Jesus in Miami). Is his ministry still associated with Pastor Cesar Castellanos, Cash Luna, Benny Hinn and still G12? What should we make of his prosperity preaching…it seems he is insinuating that you won’t get your blessing or breakthrough from God unless you give something monetary. Also…is he still practicing G12? And how about the gold dust in bibles and on people during services?

  41. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Interesting question becauseeeeee a while ago I wrote a small article hoping someone could tell me what this G12 thing was.

  42. watson chipare says:

    i wonder if some people are still talking about the bible or persona. It seems there are some articles that were written at 500000 feet without oxygen; the Word of God is still the same yesterday, today and forever and it doesn’t matter to a boer, Aryan, black or whatever color. It is sharper than any two edged sword and to the dividing asunder….. If bro Angus wasn’t send to your dispensation fine, because at the end of the day it is God that anoints, appoint and disappoints.

  43. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    God has not anointed Angus because ANOINTED MEANS CHRIST and Angus is not Christ. Having said that He has not appointed him either. Angus most defininately DISAPPOINTS God with the way he TWISTS scripture as he preaches another message, another type of Christianity and another Jesus.

  44. Chris says:

    Hi Debs, I browsed through this article and some concerns.

    I read “Hardcore Christianity” by Angus and have to agree with you. It is as someone once said “You will always find real cheese in a rat trap” So it is with Angus.

    I find it amusing that people still say that if Angus and so many other pastors are wrong then who must we listen to – well for a start read and listen to what, Peter, James, John, Matthew, Luke, Paul, etc. wrote in the Scriptures.

    Debs keep it up!

  45. Victor says:

    [Deleted comment – Please go read your bible – you are following a false teaching who teaches a false gospel]

  46. John Chingford says:

    Regarding “faith like potatoes” Angus Buchan.

    I watched the film (last night)and like most people, I found it emotional. But then I listened to the “real” Buchan speak. Either his whole story is a complete fabrication (is there any real proof that those things happened) or it happened and he has since become infected by Word Faith doctrine. Here is a testimony from someone who knew him personally:

    He now (maybe always has)seems to preach faith in FAITH rather than faith in Jesus. Now, he may well have started out well and those miracles may have happened, but I would like to see the proof first.

    We are to be as wise as serpents, innocent and doves – NOT gullible.

    Consider, had anyone heard of Angus Buchan before his book and movie were produced? If that amazing potato crop miracle really happened, wouldn’t that story have spread like wild fire? It would have done! Here are my following observations, which tell me that something does not add up and smells fishy:

    1) According to the film there were Thousands packed into a football stadium as he led farmers into prayer for their farms (is there any archive proof, btw, that this event happened?).

    2) If that meeting took place, would not the name of Angus Buchan have spread?
    Especially after God provided the event to take place in the first place. Surely it did, but how many people had heard of him until his book was written?

    3) Angus had declared that farmers should plant potatoes in faith because God would bring the rain. Many would have known of his own act of faith of planting the potatoes in dead soil and with no rain for 4 months, yet it produced a bumper harvest. Why are there no records of this event in news archives?

    4) How is it that no-one knows about him or the miracles until reading about it in his book.

    Has the miracles (especially the miraculous bumper harvest) been verified? I cannot find any verification on that miracle anywhere on the internet. Does anybody have a link which has a verifiable proof of the miracle BEFORE his book was written?

    Incidentally, it may help my search if I know what year that miracle took place. I cannot find a record of what year. Does anybody know?

    So can anyone help me or point me in the direction (on the internet) which answers the questions I raised?

  47. Glen says:

    I was not saved by understanding doctrine and nore were any of you( if you were saved at all), so if some preachers get their doctrine wrong it does not make them false teachers, it merely makes them wrong in that instance, but i guess some of you learned theologans never get it wrong,so busy straining a gnat you swollow a camel.It sickens my heart to see believers fighting amongst themselves. If Angus,Rory, Ray, Reinhard,Rodney & Benny are glorifying God then its good.
    Let me ask: When last have you led a non-believer to Christ? When last have you prayed for the sick or cast out demons?
    The strange thing is those that do the least run around objecting the most. As for Prof. Jan Malan, what have you done for Christ?,i have never heard of you, when we see your fruit then maybe you can have our ears to hear your critisims of these great people of God.

  48. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:



  49. Burning Lamp says:

    Glen, I serve in an evangelism ministry that takes short-term teams to Central America every year. Every year God uses that ministry to lead literally THOUSANDS to Christ by using the BIBLE and sound doctrine and the uncompromised Gospel of Christ. This is ONE on ONE, not groups! This is the power of God unto salvation. By His WORD!!

    Mishandling God’s Word and His truth is SERIOUS error and He takes it seriously. You wink at false doctrine and that is dangerous ground.

    No, none of us are perfect on this earth, but His Word is and that is why it is so important to let His Word be the messenger. Some like those you mention twist it, and they will answer to God for it.

    Also, Deborah’s ministry to the Body of Christ and exposing error is important to the strength and effectiveness of the Church. False teaching is TOXIC to the Body of Christ. I hope you come to realize this.

  50. Michael says:

    Glen commented… I was not saved by understanding doctrine and nor were any of you( if you were saved at all), so if some preachers get their doctrine wrong it does not make them false teachers, it merely makes them wrong in that instance

    It depends what you mean by “doctrine”…if it the recorded saving doctrine in the bible then that is the only way to know how to get saved and yes it requires response and hearing it only without response does not save you.You are not saved subjectively by a flash of light but by objectively responding to the instructed words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the understanding of how to go about it.
    However I get the impression that you are just playing with words and talking in riddles so as to confuse. I suggest kindly that you respect the written word and be mature and follow what the scriptures instruct you to do and stop trying to be a stumbling block to those who genuinely wanting to know how to get saved.

  51. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Ag BL, I didn’t bother answering Glen cos the man is as lost as a sheep encircled by a pack of wolves; “Angus,Rory, Ray, Reinhard,Rodney & Benny” I can just close my eyes to avoid watching the bloodshed as they rip him to sheds because GLEN DOES NOT KNOW THE GOSPEL, even after all this time after being saved (so he thinks)… he is still clueless. Hmmm maybe that’s why he is still CLUELESS, because he is not saved.

  52. Rachel says:

    Hi Everyone,

    I don’t know what it is but from the very beginning something just “felt” wrong about Angus Buchan. My hubby is on a MMC right now even though I cannot get him to go to church with me – funny hey? What bothers me the most is that he seems to think that woman in SA doe not need preaching or deliverance…did he ever think about the “secretary” he keeps referring to? Is she not as guilty as the married man committing adultery?

    One problem I have with most preachers and churches is the fact that the very first thing they speak about is money (or the lack thereof) they need to do this and that in the name of God. I am of the opinion that if God wants you to do something you need money for, He himself will press on the hearts of givers to help you attain His goals. In fact I have seen this in my own life in times I was destitute and totally broke He did deliver me not the church or any preacher.

    I do think there is place in our country for true faith and that the lack of faith is a huge problem everywhere. But I agree with Deborah, it is written in the Bible that YOU must preach the gospel to your children at home whilst travelling and basically everywhere you go. I do not believe that being part of a (money seeking) congregation will get me into heaven. Church and Sunday school teaches our children that they are worthless whilst in fact they are Gods greatest creation and should be guided and LOVED with all their mistakes. God accepts them as they are who is a human being to say they are not good enough?

    Well now Ive also had my 2 cents I will report back on Hubby’s experience after the weekend.

    God Bless!

  53. Michael says:

    What next… posing as a Christian mentor in SA…little do people know…
    Angus Buchan film starts shooting
    Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:53
    SCREEN AFRICA EXCLUSIVE: Linda Krige writes… Principal photography commences this week in Greytown, KwaZulu-Natal, on a new feature film about evangelist and former Zambian farmer, Angus Buchan, and three true stories of people affected by his ministry.

    Buchan’s life was first depicted on the big screen in Regardt van den Bergh’s 2006 film Faith Like Potatoes. Frank Rautenback played Buchan in the film.

    At a press conference held at OR Tambo on 11 April, details of the new film, Ordinary People, were revealed. It stars Buchan as himself with Anrich Herbst, known for roles in Orkney Snork Nie, Egoli and Villa Rosa, as the younger Buchan.

    The film is written and directed by F.C Hamman and produced by F.C Hamman Films International and Spotlight Entertainment The supporting cast includes Anton Dekker, Jaco Muller, Lucky Koza, Robin Smith, Norman Anstey, and Hannes Muller.

    Hamman stated at the press conference that he felt as if the film chose him, and not the other way around.

    A preview of the film shows Herbst as Buchan in 1979 preaching to an empty field of maize, with Buchan as himself years later preaching to over 300,000 men at a Mighty Men Conference held on the same spot, his farm near Greytown.

    Despite the Christian theme and message, Buchan insisted that the story of Ordinary People was not only for the church or the Christian community. “The film must touch the nation, not a select group, but the whole nation,” said Buchan. “The gist of the whole thing is that God has no favourites.”

    Ordinary People will be shot on location in Limpopo, Greytown and Johannesburg over the next eight weeks, and will be distributed in South Africa by Indigenous Film Distribution. The film is scheduled for release in April 2012.

    For more on Ordinary People read the May issue of Screen Africa.

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  54. Ria says:

    Dear Deborah, people will always throw stones..sometimes bricks..when they are confused. Please carry on with what you are doing! I am so grateful for this website, because I do not feel so ALONE any more. I started to think there must be something wrong with me because so many of these preachers made me nauseous to listen to. Many years ago when I opened my mouth to give my opinion, I was told I am a rebel.

    May God grant you strength for every fiery dart from the enemy, the blind and the confused.

    I have never read any books from “uncle” Angus. Never had the desire because something felt not kosher.Heard interviews with him on the radio and his repetitive “saying” and cliches put me off!!(Between you and me, I would climb the walls if I had to listen to him “preaching”)! Another “preacher” on the bandwagon! When will this wagon topple with all these “preachers” on it☺☺ I heard on the radio that “uncle” has a new preacher in tow..a son, nephew? Another money making scheme in progress. Another man taking Jesus’ place. Another doctrine instead of the Word. All these so-called saved men -what happens to them when they get back home and back to normality? Are they left to carry on as before?Any follow up? Because I have been told that many of them came back changed and after a space of time they are back to their old ways. That is very sad. All the money spent to attend these meetings, hyped up and boom, swoosh, gone! A while ago I read that this “uncle” was told by God not to use stadiums for his meetings until ?? Why? Another question, why is it that people in Greytown (my late parents had a farm there)cannot recall this miracle that people talk about.Oh dear, I must first find out the miracle, because I am ignorant about the truth and the whole truth.
    Please please keep on exposing the falseness. Pity it has limited exposure! When will someone eg a woman start her “mighty women”?? lol God bless you!

  55. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Thank you Ria, I guarantee you, I ain’t going no where :))

    There are many many things that Angus says that are blatant lies, but he spins the story so well you honestly think he is telling the truth. People look at him and think that there is no ways this ‘loving’ man can lie to your face just like that and not batter and eyelid. Well he does, day in and day out and on TV. People raised from the dead (including himself), people paralyzed now walking yet there is no proof. Quotes the same verses over and over and over again because he knows that people out there are mindless and will fall for his repetition – he knows that people wont go to the Word of God themselves and take everything he has said and weigh it up against scripture. I think Angus must laugh himself to sleep at night.

  56. Burning Lamp says:

    Ria, often people think when one becomes a “silver saint” that we have lost our usefulness, but really God has brought us through many things and we have much to contribute to the Body. I am sure Debs appreciates your encouragement so much because this ministry can really get to a person, especially in these times of falling away from sound doctrine. It is good to know that folks like you are out there!

    May the Lord richly bless you!!

  57. Tigi says:

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    When he starts to preach the GOSPEL TRUTH we will leave him alone.

    Oh, you mean the GOSPEL truth according to Deborah!Your comments do not convince me at all! Seams you are pretending to be the only one with knowledge.Your arguments about Paul Washer are so lame, its laughable.

  58. A. Nonymous says:

    Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    If tested by these 3 quotes from scripture alone 99% of all preachers will be found to be false teachers….

    Just ask them about the Sabbath (Saturday)….. And before you freak out on me just read Hebrews 4 (whole chapter)written after the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.

    Case Closed..



  60. Dozie says:

    Hi everyone,

    I am amazed at how the perfect and beautiful Holy Spirit can use anyone and anything to advance his own powerful ministry. I didnt expect much spiritually when I started reading this article, but at a point (while reading quotes from Pastor Benny Hinn) I got so raptured with joy in the spirit that I burst into tongues!

    You guessed it! nearly everything he said is absolutely CORRECT and scriptural! And I’ll prove it in a second. First let me say that I love Benny Hinn, (before anyone starts biting me, know that I love Jesus Christ, MY LORD, much more) and I wonder how we who aspire to heaven can be so, uhm, harsh, when writing about God’s other children. The fruits of the Spirit include patience (I like the KJV which translates LONGSUFFERING, as in suffering fools for long). Jesus himself cautioned his overzealous apostles by saying no one who uses my name one minute can in the next say anything bad about me. True? (Mark 9:39) So let us be Longsuffering.

    Let me start with what I dont approve of. I dont approve of “Dominionism”, as explained here, and probably anywhere else. It might also strike you to know that I dont “tithe”, nor think its robbing God not to. I do believe in giving “generously and with a cheerful heart”. That Jesus expressly commanded. I dont know what New Age Religion or whatever NAR stands for means, and I dont care! I just want to see more people preaching life through faith in Jesus Christ!

    Having said that, I agree TOTALY, that Jesus was capable of commiting sin. I dont agree with you when you say:
    “The title Son of Man does not mean that Jesus was capable of sinning. Had He in the very slightest been capable of sinning He would never have been able to pay the penalty for our sins. The Son of Man simply means that He identified Himself with man to the very uttermost,…”

    Question: would the devil had tempted him if he was not capable of committing sin? What would have been the use? Was he tempted only three times, or did the devil leave him “until an opportune time”? (Lk 4:13 NIV) This tells us that even while filled with the Spirit (this was after the baptism) the Devil tempted him, and kept coming back.
    You must understand that the devil did this because Jesus had taken the nature of man. What nature, you ask? The SINFUL nature, thus: Son of Man. SON OF MAN MEANS BORN OF MAN, in the same way Son of God means Born of God (See Jn 3:6 “Flesh gives birth to flesh…”)
    “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are,” (Heb 4:15). Can a person who cannot experience temptation be “tempted like as we are”?
    Consider this and meditate on it: why did Jesus have to be baptised by John the Baptist, and why did the Holy Spirit come upon him IMMEDIATELY after that? What was the PURPOSE of the baptism?
    Scripture answers that. (John 1:30,31) “This is the one I meant when I said, A man that comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me. I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptising with water was that he might be revealed to Isreal.” Reread and chew on that for a minute and you will realise that Jesus, being in the sinful nature and form of man, needed to be cleansed by baptism by an annointed prophet, and then immediately adopted by the Spirit, to begin his work.
    Am I saying that Jesus was a sinner before his baptism? I dont think so, but it is written in Mark 1:4 -“And so John came, baptising in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” Secondly, I am curious about what effect being born under the Mosaic law, under which no one was justified (Rom 3:20) would have on Jesus’s worthiness to be the sinless, atoning sacrifice for mankind. Think about it!

    On the anguish and suffering Jesus felt before going to the cross (which B.Hinn alluded to) read the following Psalms (18, 22, 30 and 31), and bear in mind, “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Rev 19:10). Transliterate that to say: The essence of prophecy is the story of Jesus, and you’ll better understand it.

    Now, on “blasphemy” about being Gods, little gods, little Messiahs, (LOL like crazy) you might not like Benny’s style and choice of words, but neither did the Pharasees like Jesus in that manner. Jesus called himself a God severally, and they tried to lynch him many times:
    “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” (Jn 10:33). To this he promptly replied: “is it not written in your law, ‘I have said you are gods’ (note: little ‘g’). If he called them gods to whom the Word of God came-and the Scripture cannot be broken-what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?” (John 10:34-36)
    Praise the Lord. What he was saying is, if God said to those to whom he sends his Word (ie, who recieve Christ) ‘You are Gods!’ (see Ps 82:6), how much more his very own son?
    So you see, its not Benny Hinn that took it on himself to become a ‘god’, its God whodunnit first, and Jesus REAFFIRMED it! God gave him that right! And all he needs to do is step into it in faith, and whoosh, voila! Halleluia!
    You quote 1 John 1:8 in showing that having the Holy Spirit doesnt make us sinless, but you must understand that none of us recieved the “measure” of annointing that Christ recieved. Indeed no one can, for the simple reason that you will see and know things that would take you out of this world. Literally. Remember when Jesus told Niccodemus I tell you of earthly things and you dont understand, how then will you understand heavenly things? Man was not designed to be given the Spirit “without limit”. Isn’t that obvoius? If you got the measure of the Spirit Jesus had, there would no longer be a Trinity. There’d be a Holy Quintet. Not the Divine plan, I think. Do you?
    Now if Christ, the Messiah, had the annointing and did God’s work, dont we, having the same annointing (but not in the same measure) and being “God’s fellow workers” (2 Cor 6:1) with the job of winning souls for God (which is God’s work), thus become “little Messiahs”? Doesn’t Romans 6 (v1-4) say we died with Him, and were raised with Him? Doesnt that make us participators (by faith) in his nature and glory?

    The Holy Spirit has shown me through the Scriptures, that you can spend just a few weeks (like I did), praying for revelation of deeper meaning, and suddenly, whoosh, the light is shining IN YOU. I write these things to encourage those who seek truth and knowledge, that if you rely on the Spirit he will show you every answer you seek. Every single bit of it. Just ask him, in audible words (something, I confess, I learned from “Benny”). Try it and see.

    If you dont like a particular doctrine someone preaches, dont let it stop you from listening to the rest of his message. My church collects tithes every service, but that doesnt stop me going there. Why? coz I DO give to God’s work, just not according to their directives and calculations! And they preach God’s word powerfully. And what does that word say on such doctrinal divisions?
    “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” (Romans 14:5)
    God bless you all!

    PS, Deborah, You’ve taken on a great responsibility, so let the criticisms that people spray at you slide off like water off the back of a duck. You publish a website that criticises people, certainly you didnt expect everyone that came here to want to give you a hug? Dont give fire for fire, but bless those who curse you. In so doing you will prove that Jesus Christ lives in you. Do you believe this? God bless you.

  61. Dozie says:

    BennyHinn SAID:
    God came from heaven, became a man, made man into little gods, went back to heaven as a man. He faces the Father as a man. I face devils as the son of God…. Quit your nonsense! What else are you? If you say, I am, you’re saying I’m a part of Him, right? Is he God? Are you His offspring? Are you His children? You can’t be human! You can’t! You can’t! God didn’t give birth to flesh…. You said, “Well, that’s heresy.” No, that’s your crazy brain saying that.

    JOHN 3:6-7 “Flesh gives birth to flesh (Mary gives birth to Jesus, son of Joseph), but the Spirit gives birth to spirit (God, through the Holy Spirit, gives birth to Jesus, the Christ.). You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again’.”

    If we are also born of the same Spirit (else, y would we be called born again?) arent we children of God? If we are children of God, what does PSALM 82:6 mean, when God says: ‘I said, “You are gods, you are all sons of the Most High.”

    It means, we are gods; sons of the Most High, all. Praise the Lord!

  62. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> If we are also born of the same Spirit (else, y would we be called born again?) arent we children of God? If we are children of God, what does PSALM 82:6 mean, when God says: ‘I said, “You are gods, you are all sons of the Most High.”

    This has been explained in full right over here: but I have pasted the article below for you to read.

    “Many a preacher today teaches that we are gods, or little gods, based on the incorrect interpretation of scripture. Some are very subtle in the way they teach this message, others come out right and just say it.

    The verse they will show you to try prove their point is John 10:34 ”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?

    But let me explain what Jesus really meant:

    Jesus was in dialogue with the Jews of His day and quoting from the Old Testament Psalms, saying: “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for calling God His Father and making Himself equal with God. So Jesus quotes Pslam 82 to them to show the distinction between himself and those in Pslam 82 who were called ‘gods’.

    Pslam 82 was written AGAINST certain unjust rulers in Israel’s history. Men of high distinction (Judges/Rulers) were almost seen as gods because of the power they wielded over the nation. The problem is these men were UNJUST. Verse 82:2 says: ”How long will you judge unjustly, And showpartiality to the wicked? and verses 6-7 say, 6 “I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.” 7 But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.” So these rulers are not gods, they were given this name by mere men, but were they still children of God? Yes. But they will die like everyone else. So the point Jesus was making was that if unjust rulers can be called gods (by men), how can the Jews who wanted to stone Him object to Him saying that he was the Son of God?

    Can you see how easily scripture gets twisted and the next minute you have men and women running around teaching New Age teachings under the banner of Christianity.

    BEWARE of ANYONE who tells you that you can be a God or Christ. When you become a born again Christian you grow to become more Christ-like, you DO NOT become like Christ or a Christ or anything Divine for that matter. However in Charismatic churches you do; you become a little god – ‘Faith’ becomes an actual force that you wield at your command as you speak things into existence. This is totally and utterly occult. The New Age religion believes in something similar, that each person is a god/goddess, they just have not realised it yet – a god trapped in a human body part of a huge cosmos – trying to turn the world into one spiritual tower of Babel.


    1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

    2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

    3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

    4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

    5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

    6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

    7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

    8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

    9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

    10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

    11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

    12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

    13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

    14. Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

    15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

    16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

    17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

    18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

    20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

    21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

    23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

    25. Ephesians 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    27. 1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

    28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

  63. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    A. Nonymous

    Regarding the Sabbath, please read this article for the answer:

  64. Dozie says:

    hello again.

    There are suggestions I made in my comment I would like to revise:
    the baptism of Jesus, followed by his annointing with power (the Holy Ghost descending) was actually the consumation of the consecration of priests found in Exodus.

    Jesus was totally sinless, inspite of intense temptations. His baptism had nothing to do with “repentance”, it was the consumation of a symbolic rite ordained in the Mosaic law. He is afterall, the High Priest of our Salvation. Aaron and co were mere symbols.

    He was not under the “curse” of the law because he had immuned himself to it (so to speak) by perfect obedience to God. It was this obideince, in spite of having the fleshy nature, that made him the acceptable ransom for us, the heirs of salvation.

    I do agree that there is one God. But the bible tells us he has “sons” (Job chapter 1). Jesus was one of them, and so are they who live by faith in him.

    One God, many sons.

  65. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    oh boy someone does not pay attention.

  66. Holly says:

    You are making some harsh judgments on Angus that I think are quite off base. For instance you are seemingly upset that Angus is not warning people he is preaching to, to not fall away in the end times as the bible speaks of…How do non-Christians “fall away” from the Lord? Instead of picking apart someone who is loving those around him, taking risks in his faith as he reaches out to the nation he lives in by asking the Holy Spirit to move in healing, etc,… and you left out that he takes care of area orphans whose parents have died of AIDS. What actions are you doing that reflect the person of Christ and His heart for His people and those that do not know Him yet? It amazes me how quick people can criticize someone who is actually DOING something that makes a positive difference in others lives and introduces them to the Lord. I suggest you take some time off from your computer and go love on your neighbor; get out of your own comfort zone and share Christ’s love in a practical way. As you do I pray your heart will know His love for you and others more.
    Keep on Angus!

  67. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    >> How do non-Christians “fall away” from the Lord?

    We will let the bible answer you.

    2 Thessalonians 2 3-12

    The Great Apostasy

    3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Do you see those words above that says, ‘the falling away comes first” well Holly we are in the GREAT APOSTASY now where the church no longer preaches the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ. It preaches something that appears to be ok, but it’s actually far from the truth. Are you willing to find out why? Or do you want to follow blindly to the point that God hands you over to deception. (see vs 12)

    Looking after orphans means nothing if you are preaching a false doctrine Holly. All those orphans are going to hell because you refused to find out the truth.

    Do you accept false teaching, are you happy that people’s spiritual lives are being ruined because of false doctrines that Angus Buchan teaches? Do you want people led astray when the Bible says:

    Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.

    I do not save people, Jesus Christ saves people therefore I will NEVER boast of my accomplishments of any sort – unlike Oom Angus.

    This is what the bible says regarding boasting and huge mega churches and large gatherings where the preacher proclaims to lead the group on behalf of God.

    Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

    Should you leave people alone so that the blind lead the blind to hell? Would you allow this to happen to your OWN FAMILY? Or will you try your best to protect them from harm?

    Matthew 15:1 “Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

    For instance, did you know that Angus Buchan believes this false doctrine?

  68. Shannon says:

    You go Deborah
    Very few in RSA realize what’s happening around the world and how this country is in the same trap. I as many was part of the charismatic movement when it started in the 80’s in this country. But is grown into a false prosperity gospel and now the NAR movement , universalism,emergent church, and the likes are joining the ranks. People need to do research and realize the basis of what Jesus did was first and foremost die to save our wretched souls. The rest is in the background,but it’s not so now days as everything is aimed at entertaining peoples greedy hearts.

  69. Elsa says:

    Deborah, Thanks for your wonderful website and your wonderful work. May God bless you dearly – keep it up!

  70. Sheugnet says:

    Dozi. Jesus, being the Son of God does not refer to Him being a person who is part of God. It refers to the ‘type’ that He is. God cannot be compared to anything which is familiar to us, eg.: a human family with a father, a mother and a child. God is ONE. Only one. One person. Jesus called Himself “I AM”. That means that Jesus said: I am God. When Philip asked Jesus: “Show us the Father.” Jesus gave a surprising answer. Go read the scriptures and ask God to teach you Himself concerning this matter.

  71. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Thank you Elsa!!!

  72. leonard says:

    Hi guys, I just want to say a few things. To the biblical believers of this group you should know better trying to convert a charismatic. And to the rest I and everybody else knowing the truth are and should be praying for you. I myself was heavily involved in the charismatic movement, I was baptized by water, couple weeks later received the 2nd baptism of the ” Holy Spirit” as the charismatic call it, and spoke in tongues. Guess what this all before I was saved, all before Jesus Christ become my Savior, all before I received him, trusted him. And it was by the Word of God and only the Word of God that opened my eyes to who I am and who Jesus is. Biblical believers you know who is causing the real division in the body of Christ. Spend more time fishing for men who actually want to hear the truth and less trying to convert a charismatic. Who converted me? God almighty did, leave it to the Holy Spirit to open eyes. I understand what your are doing the bible teaches us to expose them but don’t argue, if you get insulted just take it don’t even reply. I truly care for all of you and I know where you coming from, my entire family is charismatic and I’m pretty sure there not even saved, there lives speak it. To my true family in Christ the time is coming we ought to do everything to not be ashamed when we stand in front of our God and Savior Jesus Christ the great Creator. God bless

  73. leonard says:

    My father, family and there entire church went to the mighty man this year. After weeks of hearing the miraculous and so many come to salvation I just could not take it anymore. Why? Because not once did I hear repentance, not once did I hear any of these people come to realize there need of saving, and not once even our Lords name. I’ve preached the true Gospel to my father a few times, again I said let me see what Gods Word says and corrected him the biblical way. He just wanted to argue and was not pleased with me at all that I was trashing the ” mighty man”. He said well then I’m sure of it nobody is going to heaven according to ” you people” revering to me because I’m a independent Baptist. Which showed he did not listen to all the times I preached to him the Gospel. Like I said only God can open someone eyes whom truly believe they are right, they are blinded by the devil and man can’t brake those strongholds only Gods Word and Holy Spirit. I could have used Scripture reverence like everybody else but remember the devil knows the scriptures aswell, knowledge of it and faith by it is oil and water.The knowing of verses is knowledge – then understanding is knowing what they mean – wisdom is putting it into practice. God bless you all.

  74. anon says:

    Dear Deborah,

    You know what? I checked out your site and your comments … what you seem to believe and whom you elevate … It worries me. I see NO love.

    Pray that you give way in your heart to Jesus soon!

  75. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I laugh at comments like yours, because the ‘love‘ you speak of is nothing but New Age Love, and I don’t do that kinda LOVE. I do Biblical love, the one were TRUTH HURTS. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

  76. James says:

    You will face the wrath of God if you speak badly about His people
    That must be somewhere in the Bible right? Im sure ive read that somewhere or heard someone read that aloud… Can anyone help me? Deborah?

  77. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    1) Prove to me that Angus is God’s people

  78. Robbie says:


    Also in the bible is a reference to those who calls evil good and good evil

    >>Im sure ive read that somewhere or heard someone read that aloud…<<<

    You see, this is the problem. Instead of reading the Word ourselves, we pay someone to read for us. Because of that, we turn the word of God on it's head and form our own opinion of what WE would like to be the truth.

    Since someone is reading the Word to you, chances are good you missed all the many warnings re: false teachers and deceptive wolves that come in sheep's clothing. Those with one purpose and that is to deceive the flock. Note James that these appears to be holy but are servants of the prince of this world.

    But yes, like Deborah is requesting. Prove that Angus is God's people. Do not waste time and wait for someone to tickle the ear with context-less verses… get stuck in –
    It is an eye opener!!… or are you just another twist and shouter?

    Those that allow the blind to lead them, end up in the ditch… with them (says the Bible also)

  79. John says:

    funny I would have thought deborah was a dry hard legalist when I first met Jesus but now I know she just sees the narrow road…..thats cuz I was into the power and money gospel and I didnt know its not about that ….its about walking with Jesus …..deborah merely states the facts that all should see but the reason those cant see is cuz you havent given Jesus your heart….cuz if you had you would see…simple …..deborah till they devote their hearts too Jesus completetly they wont see ….its the storey of the pearl of great price

  80. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    It’s tough going, but the good thing is at least the people that have read this article have read the truth, hopefully some will wake up, others wont, but none will be without an excuse.

  81. adam says:

    i need your help benny hen///00966-012-6987581

  82. Adam,

    What kind of help do you need on benny hen?

  83. vincent holloway says:

    Romans 11:29(KJV) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
    1 Corinthians 4:20(KJV) For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
    Mark 16:18(KJV) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    Are you(this website)preaching another gospel?

  84. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Dear Vincent

    It is you that is preaching another gospel. You quote those verses to tell us what? That there are supposed to be apostles and prophets today in a five fold ministry, that there are faith healers today who claim to have power and can raise the dead even though no one has bothered to come forward to my site and tell us they were raised fro the dead? With all the claims out there of people being raised from the dead you would think SOMEONE would want to shout their miracle from the rooftops, but no, no one…*crickets*

    So tell me since you quote Mark 16:18 when last did you go pick up a venomous snake Vincent? Or don’t you have enough faith for that? Or are you saying that only those ‘snake handling churches’ are the real deal and no one else? What are you saying Vincent?

    I have said this so many times on this blog, but for you I will say it again. The Apostles where given great power by Jesus to go out and preach with signs and wonders and to establish the church. Once the New Testament was penned, these powers of healing, tongues, prophecy faded away. You now GO DIRECTLY TO JESUS CHRIST for your healing not a middle man claiming to have power to heal.

    You quote Romans 11:29, these are gifts of the Holy Spirit vincent, not power to pick up serpents or power to speak in tongues.

    Please read the following articles if you care to know the truth: Are Prophets for Today or has Prophecy Ceased?, False Foundation of Five-Fold Ministry and speaking in tongues and Can Satan Heal? and Latter Rain – Taking Dominion with another Gospel another Christ and Your Sons and Your Daughters Will Prophesy, But Not Yet..

    And Rory Alec from the ‘oh so christian’ GOD TV has left his wife for another woman and claims he was never truly saved to start off with, he just went along with it because it was a business. This man used to preach the ‘so called gospel’ on tv – the gospel that you follow, but he admits it was a farce…

    Again let me say..

    The office of Prophet and Apostle was temporary…and only necessary for the church before the completion of the Bible. The actual foundation of the church was built UPON the Prophets and Apostles (with Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone).

    Ephesians 2:19-22 “19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,20 having been built ON THE FOUNDATION of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

    Notice the word ‘been’, as in past tense.

  85. Vanessa says:

    Hi Vincent,
    Please allow me to explain Romans 11 verse 29, but before I do please don’t think I assume to know it all. My background is that of the Charismatic’s and I too once believed in talking in tongues(did it myself) and all that which goes with the gifts which are not for today. My husband and I are free from that movement and praise God daily for this. The biggest problem we see with the church today is that they don’t read AND study the word for themselves. If they did the church would not be in such a mess.
    My study on Romans 11 began with A close family member who use to talk in tongues and reminded that the gifts are without repentance. He had a valid point and so I had to go and check this matter for myself. Though i have been born again for over 40 years only recently have I begun to study the word and I cannot put the word down. The Holy Spirit is my teacher and my hubby keeps me from getting a big head when I find nuggets.
    I took a look at the verse and did a word study with my KJV Strongs numbers Bible and looked up the meaning of the original Greek words. I pray this may be of some help to you and may it speak to you as it did to me.
    Romans 11verse 29 “For the Gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”
    The word calling does not really refer to a ministry God has chosen for a person. No, the word here where it says “CALLING” is front the Greek word “Klesis”. Meaning invitation. The next one is ‘WITHOUT REPENTANCE.’ And this is from the Greek word “Ametameletos.” Meaning irrevocable, meaning it cannot or will not be taken back.
    This verse should read in the following manner. “For the gifts and calling (or invitation) of God are irrevocable (not to be taken away.) Gods word must be read in context. The context was referring to the Jews and Gods plan of salvation for them. Romans 9,10, 11 is all about the Jew.
    Here is what these verses say in a more understandable translation of the bible.
    Rom 11 verse 28. Now in response to the (proclamation of the ) good news (about Christ) the Jews became (Gods) enemies for the sake of you (Gentiles). But concerning (Gods) select people, these Jews became (Gods) dearly loved ones for the sake of their forefathers. Romans 11 verse 29. for God does not change his mind about the gifts he gives and the people he calls (to him). Romans 11 verse 30 For you Gentiles were disobedient to God in the past, but now you have obtained (Gods )mercy by means of the disobedience of the Jews. No where are these verses talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
    Before I end I must add that its up to you to now check me out. If you are serious enough about your relationship with God do so. Do it to please God and to allow yourself to grow in the word and not man made ministries. Soon the trumpet will be heard and those who have not heeded the warning and are still caught up in the “name it and claim churches” will be left behind to go through the tribulation. One of the hardest things we had to do as a couple was to admit we had been false when we spoke in tongues as we never knew what we were saying. We have repented and now we are free. We tell those whom we know that we were false tongue talking Christians but did it in ignornace. Take care.

  86. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    Oh my goodness,


    See, even I was wrong on Romans 11:29, now I have the noodles to admit I was wrong because I had the wrong interpretation of that verse because I did not go and study it like Vanessa did, I just took it at face value. Will you be bold enough to admit you were wrong in what you believe? After you study those verses in the bible of course :)

  87. Vanessa says:

    lol at Deborah. I was not going to post this on Romans but God has other ideas. We are just instruments and i submit. Take care.

  88. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:


    I think it was indeed God’s plan :) Because when I realised I was wrong I immediately thought that this would be a great opportunity to show Vincent how wrong we can be when we take things at face value instead of study it to make sure it says what it really does say or does it actually mean something completely different.

    So thank you Vanessa for that, and in future don’t hold back your comments :)

  89. Eddy says:

    Why it is important to personally study Gods word and to do so under the unction of the Holy Spirit.
    It separates truth and deception
    Builds your faith
    Increases your knowledge of the Lord.
    Having this or these abilities allows you to “test the spirits” where by man comes to you teaching and preaching.Thus you are able to understand a little leaven leavens the whole loaf. i.e Angus can preach 90% truth and mean well but the lack of his own discernment of the word and truth causes him to present a false/wrong understanding of the gospel,and since he is a leader and promotes himself as such,this then makes him a liar and a deceiver. Potatoes are not really good for you.

  90. Gary Sellars says:

    Critics… lol. Which critic doesn’t condemn himself? Did the Lord not say, through Paul, TOO-CLEARLY-TO-BE-MISUNDERSTOOD, “Therefore, you have no excuse—every one of you who judges. For when you pass judgment on another person, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, practice the very same things.” (Rom 2:1 ISV)

    Yep, it’s funny. What’s just as funny is how quickly we all do it without even thinking about it!

    BTW, when I have confronted people with this _all encompassing_ truth (for not one of us in not guilty of this hypocrisy), in response to their judging, TO THE MAN, every single one of them, EVERY TIME, says, “I do not!” LOL (I think it’s hilarious but I really try not to laugh because that really offends them!)

    Sometimes I have the audacity to say, “Oh, God’s a liar and not you, huh?” Not often, though. As much as people hate being confronted with Romans 2:1, they hate the second point even more! Imagine if I laughed at them and then accused them of calling God a liar. (I’ve been told I can be rather abrasive. Yet, I’ve never heard one person say they think Jesus was abrasive when He told the Pharisees, “If I say I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like you but I do know Him and keep His Word.” I find it remarkable how everyone pretends Jesus is always sweet and nice and we’re so “unchristian” if we aren’t. I’ve told many they’re confusing love with Southern Hospitality. Southern Hospitality will play the hypocrite much faster than love will.)

    My point is to the author. Your criticism of the people you condemn should slap you in the face. WE ALL ERR. Yes, too many preachers beg for money; too many people are greedy and too many people seem to not trust God when things get tight, but who do you think you’re fooling with your pretense that you’re better? I’ll give you a hint. The guy in the mirror and those who hate the same people you hate. ;-)

    Please bear with me as I point out a very blatant show of ignorance AND UNBELIEF in your remarks:

    “Benny Hinn bravely asserted that God’s promises for you will only come to fruition when you sow your seed in faith. That’s an infamous lie from the pit of hell because God says: “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2Co 1:20 KJV). These promises do not pertain to temporary things such as health, wealth (riches), prosperity and a country free from crime, corruption, and poverty.”

    While I heartily endorse your use of that particular Scripture as the basis of ALL OF GOD’S REDEMPTION (and NOT OUR GIVING), your ENORMOUS error in faulting Benny for insisting that faith is required shows you’ve got one of the most serious errors in rudimentary gospel understanding you could POSSIBLY have! YOUR BIBLE (NOT just Benny’s) SAYS: WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD! NOTE the “by us” tagged on the end of that Scripture? DUH. Engage your brain, friend. HOW IN THE WORLD ARE THE PROMISES OF GOD “by us”? Because it’s OUR FAITH that is the ONLY THING that guarantees them. Your Bible says “whosoever will may come.” Now, how smart does one have to be to figure out why those who ARE NOT COMING AREN’T? Uh… is it not because they REFUSE TO BELIEVE? Did someone tear out Romans 11 from your Bible? Let me give you a few verses, again in the ISV:

    Rom 11:19 Then you will say, “Branches were cut off so that I could be grafted in.”
    Rom 11:20 That’s right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid!
    Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.

    Now, you may be so badly perverted in your doctrine that that’s “too deep” for you to understand, but considering the simplicity of the words in 2Cor 1:20 and Rom 11:1-21 AND Heb 11:6, I think such misunderstanding really ought to leave you RED-FACED that you actually made this post without catching the error! I have to attribute it to the fuzzy brain factor we all get into when we fall into the Romans 2:1 malady! ;-)

    Let me wrap up by making my point on the necessity of faith another way. If it’s “IMPOSSIBLE” to please God without faith, there is NOTHING to God more important because GOD IS DISPLEASED WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN FAITH!

    Is this rocket science to you? I think not. I think that when we hate others for believing more of the Bible than we do, it causes a disconnect in common sense and the resultant errors in judgment are God’s way of saying, “You need to be a bit more circumspect here, son.”

    BTW, I won’t be going to the other pages because I can tell by the titles you’ve shot yourself in the foot there too and are entirely too stubborn to listen to correction.

    What an amazing God we serve. I like the statement, “Has it ever occurred to you that nothing ever occurred to God?” What HAS occurred to me is that one of God’s priorities for us in this life is to learn to bear with others’ errors. What’s made this so obvious is that everyone has so many and this time is clearly preparation for LIVING FOREVER TOGETHER! Isn’t it ludicrous to think we’re going to go from constant criticism of other Christians to 100% acceptance? Or is this not something that you consider because you’re too busy criticizing other Christians? ;-)

  91. Gary Sellars

    It is obvious that you know very little, if anything, of the difference between criticism and discernment. Allow me to explain. Your diatribe and rudeness is a typical example of criticism. Now let’s look at what the Bible says about discernment and God’s command to judge ALL THINGS righteously.

    Your serious error is two-fold.

    1) You don’t have a clue what Romans 2:1 means.
    2) You don’t have an inkling of an understanding what the WOF heretics, like Benny Hinn mean by faith.

    First of all Paul, who wrote Romans, does not say that we should not judge, period. He says that we have no right to judge others while we do the very same things. Having noticed that you are prone to misunderstanding Scripture, let me explain this to you using this simple example. I can’t tell anyone that smoking is a sin when I am a walking chimney myself. I can only tell others that smoking is a sin when I had repented of my filthy habit and stopped smoking. For your information this is what the clause “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye” in Matthew 7:5 means.

    Furthermore, Paul says that immature Christians do not judge righteously. Their immaturity (especially in their misunderstanding/misrepresentation of Scripture) withholds them from judging righteously.

    But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]. (1 Corinthians 2:15).

    The word “krino” (judge) in Romans 2:1 and “anakrino” in 1 Corinthians 2:15 – although they have the same root – have different meanings.
    Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: – avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

    From G303 and G2919; properly to scrutinize, that is, (by implication) investigate, interrogate, determine: – ask, question, discern, examine, judge, search.

    There is a vast difference between judging a person and judging his teaching and doctrine. What you have done in your diatribe was to judge me personally. Your concluding remark proves that you know very little about the gift of discernment when you loosely link it to error. You said:

    What an amazing God we serve. I like the statement, “Has it ever occurred to you that nothing ever occurred to God?” What HAS occurred to me is that one of God’s priorities for us in this life is to learn to bear with others’ errors. What’s made this so obvious is that everyone has so many and this time is clearly preparation for LIVING FOREVER TOGETHER! Isn’t it ludicrous to think we’re going to go from constant criticism of other Christians to 100% acceptance? Or is this not something that you consider because you’re too busy criticizing other Christians? ;-)

    False doctrines are not just a bunch of wishy-washy errors. They are punishable by death (eternal death). Once again, this is what the writer of Romans 2:1 also has to say about “to learn to bear with others’ errors.”

    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
    As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)! (Galatians 1:8-9).

    If anyone does hurt to God’s temple or corrupts it [with false doctrines] or destroys it, God will do hurt to him and bring him to the corruption of death and destroy him. For the temple of God is holy (sacred to Him) and that [temple] you [the believing church and its individual believers] are. (1 Corinthians 3:17).

    Moreover, Paul says that we should judge those who are in the church and not bother to judge those who are not part of the church.

    What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]? (1 Corinthians 5:12).

    OK, so let’s do just that to see whether your bid to defend Benny Hinn’s faith as supposedly being in accordance with “WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD!” is feasible.
    Let’s begin with these humdinger examples of the “faith” of the super modern-day apostles.

    – “Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross.” – Kenneth Copeland

    – “You’re not looking at Morris Cerullo you’re looking at God. You’re looking at Jesus.” – Morris Cerullo

    – “Never, ever, ever go to the Lord and say, ‘If it be thy will. . . .’ Don’t allow such faith-destroying words to be spoken from your mouth.” – Benny Hinn

    – “God has to be given permission to work in this earth realm on behalf of man…. Yes! You are in control! So, if man has control, who no longer has it? God.” – Frederick K.C. Price

    – “Man was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God’s presence without any consciousness of inferiority.” – Kenneth E. Hagin

    Anyone who is reluctant to judge these God dishonoring heresies and garrbage with the severity it deserves, is either not saved or his/her relationship with God is truly very murky.

    So, as you can see there’s faith and then there’s faith. I can assure you that the “faith” Benny Hinn and his cohorts practice, is not true faith but shamanism at its very best.

    Please make sure you have your facts in order before you venture to comment here again.

  92. Believing says:

    You know. I do not pride myself in being a Luke warm christian. I need to read God’s word more and you know what makes me realise this. Thanks all. It’s all this bickering, backbiting, ungodly knit picking and pointing fingers. I’m not perfect I admit. But what ounce of goodness or positivity or Godliness has this string of black smearing achieved? Sigh. We all can so in a finite and detailed way flesh out and search for problems with an almost sinful glee on our face but what tell me what has it done for mankind? So some people have found hope in a gospel preached by imperfect man and all you do is trash it. WHAT IS THE POINT. You belong in Hollywood cos surely this is your perfect sphere to exert influence. Sighh

  93. Believing (?)

    Next time you go on your knees to pray, ask Jesus, “Why did you warn us to take heed that no one deceive us?” (Matthew 24:4).

  94. Robbie says:

    Believing wrote: >>You know. I do not pride myself in being a Luke warm christian. I need to read God’s word more…<<

    You are right Believing. You need to read and read…

  95. Dear Believing (in what, I don’t know)

    >> I do not pride myself in being a Luke warm christian.

    Just a little fact to present you: A luke warm Christian is not a Christian. God says “So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.” Revelation 3:16

    You say you are not proud of loving the world (Satan) more than Jesus Christ, well what are you going to do about it? Reading the bible more is actually not going to solve your problem you clearly know you need Jesus. What you need salvation. Getting on your knees and asking Jesus Christ to save you from your luke warm life because you are lost and need to be saved, repenting of your sin and asking Jesus Christ to make you new will surely turn you from a ‘acting’ Christian into a genuine one. once you are saved you then need to obey God and follow what He has to say in scipture, if you don’t then you are back to square one.

    Then once you have done this, pick up your bible and start reading.

    I really hope you understand that we love you and will pray for you to find salvation through Jesus Christ the Son of God.

  96. Humbly Berean says:

    Thanks for stirring up the flickering flame to keep contending for the real faith, against all the heresies…it’s increasingly difficult! Truly, only a remnant…
    I all humility realising my own need to keep fighting for holiness, I keep wondering why the need for holiness is never preached… the incident of Bileam & Balak seems to keep playing itself out.
    Has holiness and the call to it ever been attractive, or regarded as “loving”? Has it ever drawn the masses? Has it ever sold anything? Made any money? Created any popularity? I haven’t seen it. The Bible indicates clearly how unpopular it is and increasingly so to the end. Why does a Jay (Eden) not clear up his image into one of holiness? How many famous people portray holiness?… be ye holy for I AM holy…but the are so willing to do an uncomfortable horseride in the name of Peace…claiming to do so in the name of God and for God….Many will claim Peace Peace…I have not come to bring peace – said Jesus!!!!!
    Me thinks I smell many dead and decaying rats and unfortunately we read here how many who have been caught in the traps are yelling at Deborah and the other’s call to truth SO YOU CAN BE SET FREE FROM THAT UNHOLY TRAP IF YOU WILL, LIKE WE ALL HAVE TO DAILY, CRUCIFY OUR FLESH, THAT MEANS LAY DOWN OUR PRIDE, AND REALISE SATANT HAS BEEN KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN SATING…”I shall be like God”….unfortunately the cheese that draws us into the trap contains poison, but we only taste the cream and don’t realise that something that tastes so good can be so deadly.
    Keep it up Deborah.

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