Ingrid Schlueter – Celebrates Holy Cross Day

Ingrid Schlueter – Celebrates Holy Cross Day

You’ve got to be kidding me?   Ok, Ingrid… What is this about?    Isn’t this the same as Advent?   Holy Cross day is part of the Catholic year (Liturgical year).   I can’t believe one needs to uphold a day in the year to place emphasis on what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us.  What other ‘strange’ days does your church emphasize?

Does the bible not emphasise that one is to come OUT OF the Roman Catholic church totally and utterly?  But hang on a seccie, are you not a Lutheran, which is nothing but a more ‘christianized’ version of the Catholic church?  Just because Luther defied the Roman Catholic church and nailed a piece of paper to a door does not make the man a Christian, all he did was bring about a new movement.  Lutheranism and Calvinism all come from Rome and will go back to Rome.

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 slice of laodicea

The Centrality of the Cross

Sep 14,  by Ingrid Schlueter

“Our church has a carillon that can play samples of church bells from around the world. Our call to worship today was unique in that we heard the bells of Kreuzkirche in Dresden to call us to prayer. The church was founded before the Reformation in 1215 when over in England the Magna Carta was being signed by King John at Runnymede. During the Reformation, the first Lutheran service was held there after being rebuilt in 1539.

Today was the 18th Sunday after Pentecost which is traditionally a service called Holy Cross day. The emphasis was our need for the work of Christ accomplished on that cross of Calvary 2000 years ago, and the importance of the centrality of the cross in our lives today. The hymns today were all about the cross, and the opening hymn was the wonderful, Lift High the Cross...”

Source  [no longer available on line]:  

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“Holy Cross Day, 14 September, originally commemorates the alleged discovery of the true cross in Palestine in the fourth century. In Lutheran churches, it is the occasion for preaching on the theology of the cross.”    — http://www.kencollins.com/holy-07.htm

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[EDITED 22 May 2010:  Article edited as requested by Ingrid Schlueter.

See Ingrid’s comments:

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/05/16/ingrid-schlueter-celebrates-holy-cross-day/#comment-9728 and here:

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/05/16/ingrid-schlueter-celebrates-holy-cross-day/#comment-9727

with my response here:  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/05/16/ingrid-schlueter-celebrates-holy-cross-day/#comment-9781

see further comments made my Ingrid on the topic of Holy Cross day in the comments section]

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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14 Comment authors
Evan DetersBethJeff RuzickaRudy R. CheefAlan Recent comment authors
Burning Lamp
Guest
Burning Lamp

Just another Calvinist sliding down the slope. After I learned she was a Calvinist along with Ken Silva, et al, I was not interested in anything she had to say even if it was “right on” in the discernment arena. Essential truth trumps any common ground shared on discernment issues. Thanks for sniffing this out Deb.

Burning Lamp
Guest
Burning Lamp

The main diff as I see it from my ground floor home – no balcony to leap off – Lutherans are more starchy, they are closer to ML in that they believe in the presence of Christ in the elements but not transubstantiation and they baptize infants. The newer breed of Calvinists (Reformed) gravitate more toward the more fundamental side and don’t share these beliefs. The Lutherans ironically, are very close to Roman Catholics and yet they would vehemently deny it. On the other hand the neoCalvinists are far away from the Catholics and many are apologists against the Catholic Church such as Mike Gendron. Reformed do not hold to baptismal regeneration in any form.

This is a very technical explanation of the differences between Lutheranism and Reformed. Be forewarned – keep a cup of very strong coffee handy or some No-Doz. The speaker sounds like he has as personality as a dinner roll.

It seems that Calvin and Luther had their differences but also had their common ground.

Burning Lamp
Guest
Burning Lamp

Oops! Forgot to include the link on You Tube:

Ken Silva
Guest

“After I learned she was a Calvinist along with Ken Silva, et al,…”

I don’t know who the “et al” is but I can tell you that neither Ingrid nor myself are Calvinists. I know Bob DeWaay as well and I’ve never heard him say he was a Calvinist either.

Thought you might want to know.

Valerie
Guest
Valerie

Burning Lamp

The the Lord’s supper is done to bring to mind the work done on the cross on our behalf, so all their debating about the presence of God is meaningless. This is the danger in theological retoric. We must claim to know nothing but Jesus Christ and him crucified. We must keep our focus on the Gospel message and not get pulled off track onto these rabbit trails. The discussion about Mary being the Mother of God does not need a whole theology to explain, we just accept that she gave birth to Jesus Christ. That was her role. We do not need to debate everything so heavily, just believe it because God said it. This is the problem that Paul was adressing about following men. Christ is not divided and that is why I like this site because we are all seeking to follow Jesus Christ and not the teachings of men.

I have a Mormon neighbor and a Roman Catholic neigbor and the Lord has been impressing on me that I need to share with them that Jesus Christ came to set them free from the pentalty of the law. Both religions keep their followers in fear of the law, and they should be afraid, because no flesh will be justified by keeping the law. This is the stumbling stone, that most people are so proud to think that they can keep the law and refuse to rest in the righteousness of Christ. We are told that what we began by faith and should continue forward by faith, not trying to be perfected by fleshly strength.

Anyway, it is sad to see this man defending man’s teachings and I pray that God will reveal any teachings that I currently hold that are not true.

Burning Lamp
Guest
Burning Lamp

Ken, it is pretty evident from Bob’s writings that he is of the Reformed mindset. Ask him about his conversation some years ago with Dave Hunt about the topic of Calvinism. As far as the et al is concerned, I simply meant that many of the discernment ministries are Reformed/Calvinist – example is Mike Gendron. If you are not Reformed/Calvinist, you sure hang out with a lot of them. You shouldn’t mind being called one of them as you must not have an aversion to Reformed/Calvinist theology. If you are not indeed of Reformed/Calvinist theology, then I retract the statement. But if you choose to hang out with these folks then you can expect to be painted with the same brush.Same goes for Ingrid.

You err if you do not expose the false teaching of Calvinism/Reformed theology. It is just as wrong as emergent, purpose driven, word faith, etc. But this you fail to do. Why? Because it would offend James White, John MacArthur and others you list on your website who are Calvinist.

It is a fact that Calvinism/Reformed is alive and well in your denomination, the SBC.

Grace and peace and may we all expose the truth no matter whose toes it steps on.

Burning Lamp
Guest
Burning Lamp

Ken, if this indeed you, I see you are taking a beating of the Leonard Sweet matter with him and a Calvary Chapel. I don’t want to pile on when you are under attack, but hopefully the exhortation I offered will give you pause. I sense you are a very sincere brother in Christ and I pray the Lord will impart to you wisdom and discernment in all things.

Alan Heron
Guest
Alan Heron

Hi Deborah, (and others)
Two things I want to say that are prompted by some comments above.

1. Martin Luther didn’t start out hating Jews. In fact early on he reviled the Roman Catholic church for their anti-Semitism!
However, as his evangelistic overtures to Jews throughout his life were rebuffed, he became embittered by their rejection. His other root of bitterness was resentment towards his former superiors.
Combined with a certain amount of pride apparent in his earlier criticisms of the RC treatment of the Jews, and obviously not repented of, these two roots of bitterness grew into an even more vitriolic anti-Semitism than that which he so despised earlier in his life. This is probably the most extreme object lesson in forgiving your enemies and being gracious towards those that refuse your message that I can think of.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with shaking off the dust from my feet, but it is vitally important that we don’t allow bitterness any place in our hearts, or we could end up like Martin Luther, whose last sermon on the Jews, was used by the Nazis as a template for their treatment of the Jews.
Ironic that the others that he hated so, were prime movers in that abomination as well. OOOPS! SSSHHH! Not too many people like to hear that!
Of course there were other areas where he was in error, so the other lesson is to be as doctrinally pure as you can be. Sola Scriptura was a catch-cry that Luther would’ve been wise to take to heart, but I have an impression of him being quite proud and I suspect that his opposition to Rome was fueled more by a desire to be ‘right’ than a heartfelt desire to seek and love the truth.
Lord keep me from that pride and foolishness!

2. The blood of Jesus was unique. It had to be, because a baby’s blood type is decided by the father and the mother. Jesus was a unique individual in that He was a product of a miraculous conception (not to be confused with the immaculate conception of Roman Catholic heresy fame!). This means that at the very least, his blood came from God and his mother. I was told by my father, who was a General Practitioner and Obstetrician, as well as a solidly Bible-believing Christian, that the father decides the blood type, which would have meant that Jesus’ blood would have been divine.
All the information that I can find today on the subject of blood types and the influence of parents on them, says that BOTH parents genetically play a role, but seeing as the father determines a baby’s gender, I guess it could be as I remember my Dad telling me. (Any medico’s out there want to help me out? Please do so.)

Even if there was a mixture of human and divine, it still makes Jesus’ blood VASTLY different to anyone else who ever lived, so to say that there was nothing special about Jesus’ blood is just ridiculous.
I’m surprised that the logic of that didn’t slap John MacArthur in the face. He’s not unintelligent, after all. Then again, Solomon for all his wisdom made some very foolish decisions in his later life.
I was very impressed with his book “The Truth War”, so these revelations of unscriptural positions of his are as distressing to me as they’ve been to others here.
Still, I have learnt that God is the first, last, and only one I should put my trust in without reservation. Everyone else needs to be tested, including myself.

I came to the conclusion a while ago that if I was going to be serious about loving the truth, I had to be prepared to scrap everything that I’d ever learned if it didn’t line up with the scriptures.
It has meant many tears, and almost desolation as I cried out; “Is there no-one who is true to the Word of God?” I believe that God is trying us by fire, so that we will get rid of the wood, hay, and stubble in our lives and learn to rely only on Him. It is very painful at times, but we will be safer for it as things get darker.

Shalom, (DEFINITELY NOT THE KIND THAT THESE SILLY PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT ABOVE!)
TRUE PEACE, LOVE, AND BLESSINGS TO YOU AND YOUR HOUSES IN JESUS’ NAME,
Alan.

Alan Heron
Guest
Alan Heron

Valerie

One thing about ‘the Lord’s Supper’ that we tend to forget is that it is actually part of a Passover meal and wasn’t a new thing that Jesus instituted on that night, but rather a fulfillment of the whole meal.
The cup was the third cup in a series of four that are drunk throughout the meal and was called the cup of redemption centuries before that night.
The unleavened bread comes with holes in it and is striped as it cooks, which is a picture of His body, which was broken (as the bread is during the Passover Seder before being shared around), striped, and pierced for us.

I firmly believe that error in the church would’ve had a much harder time gaining acceptance if the words of Paul in Romans had been heeded and we had not lost touch with the Jewish roots of our faith.
Mind you, there are folks I knew a decade ago, who got so involved in loving the Jews and Israel, that they forgot to love Jesus and have now become observers of the Torah to the point that now they deny Jesus Christ and are to all intents and purposes converts to Judaism, waiting for the Messiah.
So much deception!
Aaahhh, I know how Jeremiah felt!
Come quickly Lord!

Shalom,
Alan.

Ken Silva
Guest

“I see you are taking a beating of the Leonard Sweet matter with him and a Calvary Chapel.”

Hardly.

Elmarie A
Guest
Elmarie A

Ken Silva

Deborah (Discerning the World) is away for the week however she sent a message to pass on to you via sms:

Please tell Ken Silva that im so happy he came to chat and that we as genuine Christians need to look out for each other hence we ask questions from both sides so we can learn and help protect each other because this is what the bible tells us. I love Ingrid and Ken ministries but we are to test everything and never be complaisant just as i expect them to show me my errors as well. And tell them i might only be online Thursday.

Burning Lamp
Guest
Burning Lamp

Pastor Silva, I was trying to be gracious and compassionate. When those in the Body who stand for truth are attacked we who share that passion feel the stings as well. Such a terse response as “Hardly” is disappointing.

Grace and peace

Ingrid Schlueter
Guest

It’s this kind of unbelievable post that makes me question what in the world I’ve been a part of for the last 21 years. That a nearly two year old post of mine, celebrating the cross of Jesus Christ and what it means, would be fodder for attack of my beliefs online is beyond satire. I am not a Washer fan, I am not a Calvinist, I am not a Lutheran, I am not a Methodist, I am not a Protestant, I am not a Roman Catholic and given what “Christians” do to me online, I’m not sure about that one either anymore. You have too much time on your hands, Deborah, and you are clearly short of material, in more ways than one.

Grace and Peace.

Ingrid Schlueter
Guest

P.S. You also did not have permission to cut and paste my post in its entirety from Slice. Surely you’ve learned some blogging ethics by now, or does that not apply to you? I’m formally asking you to remove the cut and paste that also features our copyrighted logo.

Robert Hannway
Guest
Robert Hannway

I see a lot of contention and strife on here. I see it on many (if not all) of the blogs and websites referenced on here. Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real identity or accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord, and stop being such fools.

Caron
Guest
Caron

Hey Deb,

Caron here. I was so surprised to read this. I love Ingrid and John MacArthur is my pastor. Both, I know are committed believers. We may not all agree on secondary issues, but I like that saying that goes something like, “Unity in the essentials and liberty in the non-essentials.” I realize from what I have read that some of these issues may be essential for you and some of those on here, but as someone who has also worked in discernment ministry with Justin, there are real false teachers out there deceiving masses that truly need to be exposed as they lead people down the path to hell (while they THINK they are going to heaven) with their deception. I’d rethink this, sister. Blessings.

Ingrid Schlueter
Guest

Deborah, you removed the date on my two-year-old post to pass my writing off as a current piece, which is dishonest. Additionally, you are using our copyrighted logo without legal permission. Please be advised that I want it removed from your site. What days I celebrate or do not celebrate are none of your business unless you have created your own South African magisterium. Oh, that’s right. We don’t have such thing as church authority in the Protestant world. We all stand on the Word of God alone. All 24000 denominations. smile This site is an embarrassment to the cause of Christ.

Jemfishie
Guest

Ingrid Schlueter,

Seen that you are a professed born again christain, you said, “that what days you celebrate or don’t celebrate is none of our business” and seen that you are very much in the public ear, it is very much our business what days you celebrate, especially when you make it public, whether, it is two years ago or now, the point is do you still celebrate holy cross day?

You say you are not Catholic, but, as with all the forms, creeds and ceremonies within the Catholic church, this is idolitary. Since when does a truly born again Christian worship the cross, which is what you are doing. If you were truly born again, the Holy Spirit living within you, would tell you this is wrong. You would not be arguing with Deborah, you would admit that this is not right, and would be supporting her in this regard. So, the question she has asked, still remains the same, “Why would you celebrate a catholic celebration?”

Another comment you made is “We all stand on the Word of God alone. All 24000 denominations” That is quite a statement to make. You can actually guarantee this – Wow!

Remember, you can fool man, but you cannot fool God.

Jemfishie
Guest

Robert Hannway,

You wrote “Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord and stop being such fools.”

May I ask what “work” you do for the Lord? How do you know that this website has not brought many people to the truth of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, by helping them to see the false teaching that they have been sitting under in their churches (and hundreds of thousands still are) for many years, like myself and others I know.

By the way, what denomination do you belong to?

What false teaching have you exposed and how many people have you reached?

What part does Jesus Christ really have in you life? Are you truly born again.

Elmarie A
Guest
Elmarie A

Robert Hannway,

Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real identity or accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord, and stop being such fools.

How would you explain the following verses in the Scriptures on the importance to expose false teachings ??

Ezekiel 33:5-7 (Amplified Bible)

5He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning shall save his life.
6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, he is taken away in and for his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.
7So you, son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear the word at My mouth and give them warning from Me.

Romans 16:16-18 (Amplified Bible)

16Greet one another with a holy (consecrated) kiss. All the churches of Christ (the Messiah) wish to be remembered to you.
17 I appeal to you, brethren, to be on your guard concerning those who create dissensions and difficulties and cause divisions, in opposition to the doctrine (the teaching) which you have been taught. [I warn you to turn aside from them, to] avoid them.
18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites and base desires, and by ingratiating and flattering speech, they beguile the hearts of the unsuspecting and simpleminded [people].

2 Timothy 4:2
Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

Mark 13:22
False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and [work] miracles to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (those God has chosen out for Himself).

1 John 4:1
BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

2 Corinthians 12:10
So for the sake of Christ, I am well pleased and take pleasure in infirmities, insults, hardships, persecutions, perplexities and distresses; for when I am weak [ in human strength], then am I [truly] strong (able, powerful in divine strength).

1 Timothy 6:4
He is puffed up with pride and stupefied with conceit, [although he is] woefully ignorant. He has a morbid fondness for controversy and disputes and strife about words, which result in (produce) envy and jealousy, quarrels and dissension, abuse and insults and slander, and base suspicions,

1 Peter 3:9
Never return evil for evil or insult for insult (scolding, tongue-lashing, berating), but on the contrary blessing [praying for their welfare, happiness, and protection, and truly pitying and loving them]. For know that to this you have been called, that you may yourselves inherit a blessing [from God–that you may obtain a blessing as heirs, bringing welfare and happiness and protection].