Ingrid Schlueter – Celebrates Holy Cross Day

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Discerning the World is an internet Discernment ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa that was founded by Deborah du Rand in 2008. Tom Lessing joined Deborah in May 2013. Tom Lessing founded the website "Waak en Bid/Watch and Pray" which was closed in 2013 and articles moved across to DTW.

44 Responses

  1. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    It has been noted by Amanda that:

    “Many non-catholic churches follows the calender. It has nothing to do with following catholic doctrine. As you can see from her description of what takes place, it is Christian.”

    Lutherans do not follow the Catholic doctrine, just as Calvinist’s don’t either… BUT, the tap root of Roman Catholicism is there and never left.

    Why would anyone call themselves a Lutheran or even acknowledge Martin Luther in any way, knowing that Martin Luther hated Jews.

    Martin Luther and antisemitism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    I find it interesting that just as Calvinists uphold John Calvin, and Lutherans uphold Martin Luther – both are still part of the Roman Catholic church – the only difference is that Calvinists/Lutherans teach a good solid gospel.

    Again we are sitting with the ‘little leaven’ that WILL destroy the entire loaf. And because we are REALLY in the last days, people have to get out of the RCC church totally. There is no more if’s and but’s or excuses that are going to cut it anymore.

    See how Calvinism has overtaken – well… Lutherans will naturally do the same because it’s the same doctrine.

    Ingrid supports Paul Washer.

  3. Burning Lamp says:

    Just another Calvinist sliding down the slope. After I learned she was a Calvinist along with Ken Silva, et al, I was not interested in anything she had to say even if it was “right on” in the discernment arena. Essential truth trumps any common ground shared on discernment issues. Thanks for sniffing this out Deb.

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    So what exactly is the difference between Calvinism and Lutheranism?

    Both have a tap root (I like this word “tap root” to describe this) leading into the catholic church. There is no difference is there? Slightly different doctrines, both having a pretty decent biblical understanding but Calvin was heretical in his thinking and so was Martin Luther.

    I find it almost incomprehensible that anyone could call themselves a name after a man who hated Jews. So people now have 2 options here:

    1) They learn the truth about their man-hero and dump him and his heresy and follow Jesus Christ instead and rely on the Word of God only or

    2) Carry on calling oneself a Lutheran and be in agreement with a man who hated Jews.

    So, now we know. Not only is mankind ‘evolving’ into godhood, but the world is being transformed into a Communist/Socialist world (where the fittest / chosen will survive), and Jews are not part of their god’s plan.

    You know, I have no idea how I even landed on this article of Ingrid’s. I was gooooggggglllinnggggg info on Luther and some other keywords, and there it was. It was one of those *Oh not again* moments where you think about jumping off your balcony but…don’t… because you have to write the article. But every now and then the *if I jump head first it could be a painless death* thought comes to mind hahaha. Don’t worry my balcony is not high – it would take multiple attempts and by then I would have given up and be back to writing the article again.

  5. Burning Lamp says:

    The main diff as I see it from my ground floor home – no balcony to leap off – Lutherans are more starchy, they are closer to ML in that they believe in the presence of Christ in the elements but not transubstantiation and they baptize infants. The newer breed of Calvinists (Reformed) gravitate more toward the more fundamental side and don’t share these beliefs. The Lutherans ironically, are very close to Roman Catholics and yet they would vehemently deny it. On the other hand the neoCalvinists are far away from the Catholics and many are apologists against the Catholic Church such as Mike Gendron. Reformed do not hold to baptismal regeneration in any form.

    This is a very technical explanation of the differences between Lutheranism and Reformed. Be forewarned – keep a cup of very strong coffee handy or some No-Doz. The speaker sounds like he has as personality as a dinner roll.

    It seems that Calvin and Luther had their differences but also had their common ground.

  6. Burning Lamp says:

    Oops! Forgot to include the link on You Tube:

  7. Ken Silva says:

    “After I learned she was a Calvinist along with Ken Silva, et al,…”

    I don’t know who the “et al” is but I can tell you that neither Ingrid nor myself are Calvinists. I know Bob DeWaay as well and I’ve never heard him say he was a Calvinist either.

    Thought you might want to know.

  8. Valerie says:

    Burning Lamp

    The the Lord’s supper is done to bring to mind the work done on the cross on our behalf, so all their debating about the presence of God is meaningless. This is the danger in theological retoric. We must claim to know nothing but Jesus Christ and him crucified. We must keep our focus on the Gospel message and not get pulled off track onto these rabbit trails. The discussion about Mary being the Mother of God does not need a whole theology to explain, we just accept that she gave birth to Jesus Christ. That was her role. We do not need to debate everything so heavily, just believe it because God said it. This is the problem that Paul was adressing about following men. Christ is not divided and that is why I like this site because we are all seeking to follow Jesus Christ and not the teachings of men.

    I have a Mormon neighbor and a Roman Catholic neigbor and the Lord has been impressing on me that I need to share with them that Jesus Christ came to set them free from the pentalty of the law. Both religions keep their followers in fear of the law, and they should be afraid, because no flesh will be justified by keeping the law. This is the stumbling stone, that most people are so proud to think that they can keep the law and refuse to rest in the righteousness of Christ. We are told that what we began by faith and should continue forward by faith, not trying to be perfected by fleshly strength.

    Anyway, it is sad to see this man defending man’s teachings and I pray that God will reveal any teachings that I currently hold that are not true.

  9. Burning Lamp says:

    Ken, it is pretty evident from Bob’s writings that he is of the Reformed mindset. Ask him about his conversation some years ago with Dave Hunt about the topic of Calvinism. As far as the et al is concerned, I simply meant that many of the discernment ministries are Reformed/Calvinist – example is Mike Gendron. If you are not Reformed/Calvinist, you sure hang out with a lot of them. You shouldn’t mind being called one of them as you must not have an aversion to Reformed/Calvinist theology. If you are not indeed of Reformed/Calvinist theology, then I retract the statement. But if you choose to hang out with these folks then you can expect to be painted with the same brush.Same goes for Ingrid.

    You err if you do not expose the false teaching of Calvinism/Reformed theology. It is just as wrong as emergent, purpose driven, word faith, etc. But this you fail to do. Why? Because it would offend James White, John MacArthur and others you list on your website who are Calvinist.

    It is a fact that Calvinism/Reformed is alive and well in your denomination, the SBC.

    Grace and peace and may we all expose the truth no matter whose toes it steps on.

  10. Burning Lamp says:

    Ken, if this indeed you, I see you are taking a beating of the Leonard Sweet matter with him and a Calvary Chapel. I don’t want to pile on when you are under attack, but hopefully the exhortation I offered will give you pause. I sense you are a very sincere brother in Christ and I pray the Lord will impart to you wisdom and discernment in all things.

  11. Alan Heron says:

    Hi Deborah, (and others)
    Two things I want to say that are prompted by some comments above.

    1. Martin Luther didn’t start out hating Jews. In fact early on he reviled the Roman Catholic church for their anti-Semitism!
    However, as his evangelistic overtures to Jews throughout his life were rebuffed, he became embittered by their rejection. His other root of bitterness was resentment towards his former superiors.
    Combined with a certain amount of pride apparent in his earlier criticisms of the RC treatment of the Jews, and obviously not repented of, these two roots of bitterness grew into an even more vitriolic anti-Semitism than that which he so despised earlier in his life. This is probably the most extreme object lesson in forgiving your enemies and being gracious towards those that refuse your message that I can think of.
    Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with shaking off the dust from my feet, but it is vitally important that we don’t allow bitterness any place in our hearts, or we could end up like Martin Luther, whose last sermon on the Jews, was used by the Nazis as a template for their treatment of the Jews.
    Ironic that the others that he hated so, were prime movers in that abomination as well. OOOPS! SSSHHH! Not too many people like to hear that!
    Of course there were other areas where he was in error, so the other lesson is to be as doctrinally pure as you can be. Sola Scriptura was a catch-cry that Luther would’ve been wise to take to heart, but I have an impression of him being quite proud and I suspect that his opposition to Rome was fueled more by a desire to be ‘right’ than a heartfelt desire to seek and love the truth.
    Lord keep me from that pride and foolishness!

    2. The blood of Jesus was unique. It had to be, because a baby’s blood type is decided by the father and the mother. Jesus was a unique individual in that He was a product of a miraculous conception (not to be confused with the immaculate conception of Roman Catholic heresy fame!). This means that at the very least, his blood came from God and his mother. I was told by my father, who was a General Practitioner and Obstetrician, as well as a solidly Bible-believing Christian, that the father decides the blood type, which would have meant that Jesus’ blood would have been divine.
    All the information that I can find today on the subject of blood types and the influence of parents on them, says that BOTH parents genetically play a role, but seeing as the father determines a baby’s gender, I guess it could be as I remember my Dad telling me. (Any medico’s out there want to help me out? Please do so.)

    Even if there was a mixture of human and divine, it still makes Jesus’ blood VASTLY different to anyone else who ever lived, so to say that there was nothing special about Jesus’ blood is just ridiculous.
    I’m surprised that the logic of that didn’t slap John MacArthur in the face. He’s not unintelligent, after all. Then again, Solomon for all his wisdom made some very foolish decisions in his later life.
    I was very impressed with his book “The Truth War”, so these revelations of unscriptural positions of his are as distressing to me as they’ve been to others here.
    Still, I have learnt that God is the first, last, and only one I should put my trust in without reservation. Everyone else needs to be tested, including myself.

    I came to the conclusion a while ago that if I was going to be serious about loving the truth, I had to be prepared to scrap everything that I’d ever learned if it didn’t line up with the scriptures.
    It has meant many tears, and almost desolation as I cried out; “Is there no-one who is true to the Word of God?” I believe that God is trying us by fire, so that we will get rid of the wood, hay, and stubble in our lives and learn to rely only on Him. It is very painful at times, but we will be safer for it as things get darker.

    Shalom, (DEFINITELY NOT THE KIND THAT THESE SILLY PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT ABOVE!)
    TRUE PEACE, LOVE, AND BLESSINGS TO YOU AND YOUR HOUSES IN JESUS’ NAME,
    Alan.

  12. Alan Heron says:

    Valerie

    One thing about ‘the Lord’s Supper’ that we tend to forget is that it is actually part of a Passover meal and wasn’t a new thing that Jesus instituted on that night, but rather a fulfillment of the whole meal.
    The cup was the third cup in a series of four that are drunk throughout the meal and was called the cup of redemption centuries before that night.
    The unleavened bread comes with holes in it and is striped as it cooks, which is a picture of His body, which was broken (as the bread is during the Passover Seder before being shared around), striped, and pierced for us.

    I firmly believe that error in the church would’ve had a much harder time gaining acceptance if the words of Paul in Romans had been heeded and we had not lost touch with the Jewish roots of our faith.
    Mind you, there are folks I knew a decade ago, who got so involved in loving the Jews and Israel, that they forgot to love Jesus and have now become observers of the Torah to the point that now they deny Jesus Christ and are to all intents and purposes converts to Judaism, waiting for the Messiah.
    So much deception!
    Aaahhh, I know how Jeremiah felt!
    Come quickly Lord!

    Shalom,
    Alan.

  13. Ken Silva says:

    “I see you are taking a beating of the Leonard Sweet matter with him and a Calvary Chapel.”

    Hardly.

  14. Elmarie A says:

    Ken Silva

    Deborah (Discerning the World) is away for the week however she sent a message to pass on to you via sms:

    Please tell Ken Silva that im so happy he came to chat and that we as genuine Christians need to look out for each other hence we ask questions from both sides so we can learn and help protect each other because this is what the bible tells us. I love Ingrid and Ken ministries but we are to test everything and never be complaisant just as i expect them to show me my errors as well. And tell them i might only be online Thursday.

  15. Burning Lamp says:

    Pastor Silva, I was trying to be gracious and compassionate. When those in the Body who stand for truth are attacked we who share that passion feel the stings as well. Such a terse response as “Hardly” is disappointing.

    Grace and peace

  16. It’s this kind of unbelievable post that makes me question what in the world I’ve been a part of for the last 21 years. That a nearly two year old post of mine, celebrating the cross of Jesus Christ and what it means, would be fodder for attack of my beliefs online is beyond satire. I am not a Washer fan, I am not a Calvinist, I am not a Lutheran, I am not a Methodist, I am not a Protestant, I am not a Roman Catholic and given what “Christians” do to me online, I’m not sure about that one either anymore. You have too much time on your hands, Deborah, and you are clearly short of material, in more ways than one.

    Grace and Peace.

  17. P.S. You also did not have permission to cut and paste my post in its entirety from Slice. Surely you’ve learned some blogging ethics by now, or does that not apply to you? I’m formally asking you to remove the cut and paste that also features our copyrighted logo.

  18. Robert Hannway says:

    I see a lot of contention and strife on here. I see it on many (if not all) of the blogs and websites referenced on here. Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real identity or accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord, and stop being such fools.

  19. Caron says:

    Hey Deb,

    Caron here. I was so surprised to read this. I love Ingrid and John MacArthur is my pastor. Both, I know are committed believers. We may not all agree on secondary issues, but I like that saying that goes something like, “Unity in the essentials and liberty in the non-essentials.” I realize from what I have read that some of these issues may be essential for you and some of those on here, but as someone who has also worked in discernment ministry with Justin, there are real false teachers out there deceiving masses that truly need to be exposed as they lead people down the path to hell (while they THINK they are going to heaven) with their deception. I’d rethink this, sister. Blessings.

  20. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Caron

    1) How can you tell if some is a committed believer?
    2) I seem to be hearing the words ‘secondry matters’ a lot lately. Is the Blood of Jesus Christ being ‘liquid’ as per John MacArthur a secondary matter?
    3) Regarding Justin Peters – please see my article on Paul Washer and please read this article in full and properly including the part on amillenialism. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/04/20/paul-washer-practice-the-presence-silence-and-meditation/
    4) What makes you think that if I ask someone a question I am attacking other people? What makes you think I am even attacking the Ingrid by asking this question?
    5) Do you think catholic celebrations and things based on catholic traditions are ok for a Christian to celebrate? [And you know what, in another article I spoke to Mom4Truth about celebrating Christmas and Easter and I argued with her a bit saying that it was ok. But you know what? Back in the day I did not know the real hidden message of Christmas (disguised as Jesus’ birthday) and the fertility goddess associated with Easter as they use the timing of passover for their own pagan beliefs. And even when I did learn the truth I still pushed it aside and made excuses. Now I know, because someone had the guts to question me. Will I ever attend a church service on Christmas day or Easter? Now ways! Let alone any other catholic rooted holy day. BECAUSE WE WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST EVERY DAY…why? Because we have the Holy Spirit in us and HE WILL convicts us of these things and sometimes it takes us a while to listen to HIM but we will sooner or later. So here I admit I was wrong and not I will not tell other people it is ok anymore. I will however gladly take the public holidays provided to us for now and eat the yummy food.]

    Justin Peters said in his presentation when he came to South Africa that 40% percent of Baptists end up becoming Mormons. Has this phenomenon stopped? I doubt it. So I am now asking Justin to make sure he does not get swept away as the deeper roots of Calvinism are exposed. No one is immune. I double check and triple check and quadruple check everything all the time to make sure what was being taught has now not made a turn in another direction. I hope you understand what I am saying here.

    Also am I not allowed to ask questions? And if you read all the comments here you will see that is all I am asking. But based on Ingrid’s reply to my simple question… I am now going to have to ask some more difficult questions in the coming future. I am not sure how these will be handled.

    You don’t have to take what I say Caron as being truth. We don’t follow people’s opinions and versions of the truth do we? We do however obey the Word of God.

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Robert

    I see a lot of contention and strife on here. I see it on many (if not all) of the blogs and websites referenced on here. Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real identity or accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord, and stop being such fools.

    Righttttt… so why did you comment? Get back to your ‘works’

  22. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Ingrid

    Hmmm interesting reply. I never said you were Roman Catholic, etc, etc, etc. I asked a simple question as to why you would celebrate a Catholic ‘rooted’ ceremony?

    Are you not Lutheran along with Chris Rosebrough? I’m confused. (This is simple question. Nothing more. In case you think I am accusing you)

    I never attacked you Ingrid. I asked a simple question. Why didn’t you just come here and clear up the confusion and say that this was something you did 2 years ago and know it’s rooted in Roman Catholicism and that you know the difference now.

    I have no problem with people taking my entire articles and placing them on their websites just as long as they credit me as the author and link back to me. I shall do as you asked. Can I ask a favour? Please keep your article online so people can access it and read it there 🙂

    I only read this comment today as I have been offline for a week. Your comment to me has actually shocked me. Never did I expect such horrible words from you. Oh well… what can one do eh? Not much. But I think I hit a nerve that runs into the Catholic church.

    And it’s not about being a ‘fan’ of someone. It’s about finding out the truth and being convicted by the Holy Spirit on very important matters. I am not a fan of Paul Washer either – that is why I don’t link to him. Oh just like you did with John Piper, you were for him and then you realised he was not ok anymore and then you told people you were wrong (as all Christians would do to let people know how they feel so they are not led astray) you also removed his links from your site.

    >> You have too much time on your hands, Deborah, and you are clearly short of material, in more ways than one.

    I think it’s great I have so much time on my hands. And saying I am ‘clearly short on material in more ways that one’ is outright nastiness. Good grief.

    Anyhow, the question still remains. Why would you celebrate a catholic celebration?

    [EDITED: Ok I see you deleted your article from your site… if you plan to put it up again please let us know where to find it by givning us a new link.]

  23. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Burning Lamp

    Ken, it is pretty evident from Bob’s writings that he is of the Reformed mindset. Ask him about his conversation some years ago with Dave Hunt about the topic of Calvinism. As far as the et al is concerned, I simply meant that many of the discernment ministries are Reformed/Calvinist – example is Mike Gendron. If you are not Reformed/Calvinist, you sure hang out with a lot of them. You shouldn’t mind being called one of them as you must not have an aversion to Reformed/Calvinist theology. If you are not indeed of Reformed/Calvinist theology, then I retract the statement. But if you choose to hang out with these folks then you can expect to be painted with the same brush.Same goes for Ingrid.

    You err if you do not expose the false teaching of Calvinism/Reformed theology. It is just as wrong as emergent, purpose driven, word faith, etc. But this you fail to do. Why? Because it would offend James White, John MacArthur and others you list on your website who are Calvinist.

    It is a fact that Calvinism/Reformed is alive and well in your denomination, the SBC.

    Grace and peace and may we all expose the truth no matter whose toes it steps on.

    >> If you are not Reformed/Calvinist, you sure hang out with a lot of them. You shouldn’t mind being called one of them as you must not have an aversion to Reformed/Calvinist theology.

    Yip. Can’t even add more to that sentence. Well said.

  24. Deborah, you removed the date on my two-year-old post to pass my writing off as a current piece, which is dishonest. Additionally, you are using our copyrighted logo without legal permission. Please be advised that I want it removed from your site. What days I celebrate or do not celebrate are none of your business unless you have created your own South African magisterium. Oh, that’s right. We don’t have such thing as church authority in the Protestant world. We all stand on the Word of God alone. All 24000 denominations. 🙂 This site is an embarrassment to the cause of Christ.

  25. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Ingrid

    Deborah, you removed the date on my two-year-old post to pass my writing off as a current piece, which is dishonest. Additionally, you are using our copyrighted logo without legal permission. Please be advised that I want it removed from your site. What days I celebrate or do not celebrate are none of your business unless you have created your own South African magisterium. Oh, that’s right. We don’t have such thing as church authority in the Protestant world. We all stand on the Word of God alone. All 24000 denominations. 🙂 This site is an embarrassment to the cause of Christ.

    >> you removed the date on my two-year-old post to pass my writing off as a current piece

    That is not true. There was no year after the date ’14 Sep’. It only said 14 Sep Ingrid Schlueter, and it makes no difference if it was current or past anyhow. But we will never know if your claim that I am dishonest is true, because you deleted the article, so I will remain dishonest to who ever you tell your story too. But let’s say I accidentally deleted the date (which I didnt). Does that still make me out to be a liar?

    Your logo has already been removed – why are you asking again since it’s not there.

    The question still remains: Why would you celebrate a catholic celebration? Why can’t you give a nice Christian answer instead of being so downright nasty?

  26. Jemfishie says:

    Ingrid Schlueter,

    Seen that you are a professed born again christain, you said, “that what days you celebrate or don’t celebrate is none of our business” and seen that you are very much in the public ear, it is very much our business what days you celebrate, especially when you make it public, whether, it is two years ago or now, the point is do you still celebrate holy cross day?

    You say you are not Catholic, but, as with all the forms, creeds and ceremonies within the Catholic church, this is idolitary. Since when does a truly born again Christian worship the cross, which is what you are doing. If you were truly born again, the Holy Spirit living within you, would tell you this is wrong. You would not be arguing with Deborah, you would admit that this is not right, and would be supporting her in this regard. So, the question she has asked, still remains the same, “Why would you celebrate a catholic celebration?”

    Another comment you made is “We all stand on the Word of God alone. All 24000 denominations” That is quite a statement to make. You can actually guarantee this – Wow!

    Remember, you can fool man, but you cannot fool God.

  27. Jemfishie says:

    Robert Hannway,

    You wrote “Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord and stop being such fools.”

    May I ask what “work” you do for the Lord? How do you know that this website has not brought many people to the truth of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, by helping them to see the false teaching that they have been sitting under in their churches (and hundreds of thousands still are) for many years, like myself and others I know.

    By the way, what denomination do you belong to?

    What false teaching have you exposed and how many people have you reached?

    What part does Jesus Christ really have in you life? Are you truly born again.

  28. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Ingrid

    I would also like to know what 24,000 denominations you are speaking about? Surely when you are born again you are part of th Body of Christ and not part of a denomination. Because there is only One Way, One Truth, One Life – One Word that is Jesus Christ.

    Would you be able to list maybe 10 of these denominations so we can get a better understanding of what you are saying?

  29. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Ingrid

    It’s this kind of unbelievable post that makes me question what in the world I’ve been a part of for the last 21 years. That a nearly two year old post of mine, celebrating the cross of Jesus Christ and what it means, would be fodder for attack of my beliefs online is beyond satire. I am not a Washer fan, I am not a Calvinist, I am not a Lutheran, I am not a Methodist, I am not a Protestant, I am not a Roman Catholic and given what “Christians” do to me online, I’m not sure about that one either anymore. You have too much time on your hands, Deborah, and you are clearly short of material, in more ways than one.

    >> I am not a Washer fan, I am not a Calvinist, I am not a Lutheran, I am not a Methodist, I am not a Protestant, I am not a Roman Catholic and given what “Christians” do to me online, I’m not sure about that one either anymore

    What are you saying here? Are you saying you don’t wan’t to be a Christian anymore? You are not sure you want to be a Christian anymore?

    Ingrid, how can you even think of writing something like that… who do you follow? Jesus Christ or men? Are you so easily persuaded? I hope not.

  30. Elmarie A says:

    Robert Hannway,

    Although the cause to “expose” false teaching passing as Christian is noble and right, doing it on any blog or website with random people spouting off without any real identity or accountability is not productive. Its cowardly and foolish. You should all get back to doing the work of the Lord, and stop being such fools.

    How would you explain the following verses in the Scriptures on the importance to expose false teachings ??

    Ezekiel 33:5-7 (Amplified Bible)

    5He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning shall save his life.
    6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, he is taken away in and for his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.
    7So you, son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear the word at My mouth and give them warning from Me.

    Romans 16:16-18 (Amplified Bible)

    16Greet one another with a holy (consecrated) kiss. All the churches of Christ (the Messiah) wish to be remembered to you.
    17 I appeal to you, brethren, to be on your guard concerning those who create dissensions and difficulties and cause divisions, in opposition to the doctrine (the teaching) which you have been taught. [I warn you to turn aside from them, to] avoid them.
    18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites and base desires, and by ingratiating and flattering speech, they beguile the hearts of the unsuspecting and simpleminded [people].

    2 Timothy 4:2
    Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

    Mark 13:22
    False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and [work] miracles to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (those God has chosen out for Himself).

    1 John 4:1
    BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    2 Corinthians 12:10
    So for the sake of Christ, I am well pleased and take pleasure in infirmities, insults, hardships, persecutions, perplexities and distresses; for when I am weak [ in human strength], then am I [truly] strong (able, powerful in divine strength).

    1 Timothy 6:4
    He is puffed up with pride and stupefied with conceit, [although he is] woefully ignorant. He has a morbid fondness for controversy and disputes and strife about words, which result in (produce) envy and jealousy, quarrels and dissension, abuse and insults and slander, and base suspicions,

    1 Peter 3:9
    Never return evil for evil or insult for insult (scolding, tongue-lashing, berating), but on the contrary blessing [praying for their welfare, happiness, and protection, and truly pitying and loving them]. For know that to this you have been called, that you may yourselves inherit a blessing [from God–that you may obtain a blessing as heirs, bringing welfare and happiness and protection].

  31. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Now we do have these verses:

    Romans 14:1-6
    14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
    2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
    3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
    4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
    5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
    6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.

    BUT considering the times we live in…and based on the FACT that this ‘holy cross day’ is based on Roman Catholic church false doctrine it is therefore imperitive Ingrid that you do not lead people astray because you refuse to acknowledge that this is a roman catholic ceremony.

    Romans 14:1-13
    13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

    Are you going to be a stumbling block for others?

  32. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    HUSTON WE HAVE CONFUSION….

    From: Christian Research Network
    Founder: Ingrid Schlueter
    General Editor: Pastor Ken Silva

    Article: Evangelicals Adopting Advent
    Published December 2nd, 2008 by Editor in General

    From USA TODAY by Cathy Lynn Grossman

    “Evangelical Christians are adopting — and adapting — the rituals of Advent, the four weeks leading up to Christmas that are traditionally celebrated by Catholics, Lutherans, Eastern Orthodox and other liturgical churches.

    They’re giving a new, personalized spin to the prayers, candles and calendars to track the building excitement, and set a spiritual tone day by day. This year Advent begins on Sunday.”

  33. Burning Lamp says:

    The rhetoric expressed here by Ingrid and Ken is certainly not what one would expect from one believer to another. It is cold, rude and nasty. Even if they believe they have been wronged, the Bible says our response should not return in kind. What does this say about these folks? I for one will no longer consider them reliable discerners. Their remarks smack of pride – which the Lord hates. Where is the humility? This is truly sad.

  34. Alan says:

    Hey B L!

    Nice to see you’re back!
    How did your missionary trip go?
    The pastor of that Messianic fellowship I told you about has just returned from a 10 day trip to eastern and central Russia, visiting Jewish communities and Jewish believers there. Starting with two Jewish ladies (mother and daughter) who they met on the plane to Korea, there were twenty four Jewish people who were saved as a result of their witness.
    Don’t know about you, but I get more excited about people being saved than I do about stories of miraculous healing, even if they’re true.
    God bless,
    Alan.

  35. Burning Lamp says:

    Hey Alan,

    Amen – many people heard the uncompromised Gospel and made professions for Christ. Only the Lord knows the heart as to who was genuine and who was not, but they heard and hopefully will be discipled by local pastors. You are so right – the new birth is the greatest miracle of all and results in the ultimate healing of the heart. The signs and wonders folks like to trumpet the sensational, but it is what quietly happens in the heart is of of paramount importance.

  36. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    BL

    It is very very sad. Since this post I have thought about Ingrid on a daily basis, hoping she would come back and just clear this up in a genuinely loving Christian fashion. But I see that has not happened, and I don’t know if it will. What I do know is that my question still stands, forever and ever, until she tells us that it’s something she no longer believes in following or tells us it’s ok and good. The answer so far tells us that she believes celebrating a catholic ceremony is ok. But I don’t want to make assumptions here.

    And this article has opened up a whole new can of worms. And I have lots and lots of time on my hands to pull out one wormy at a time and inspect him to see if he belongs in the ground making fertiliser or is a plant destroyer and needs to be exposed.

  37. Rudy R. Cheef says:

    Ahhh, the errors! They pass so easily as
    truth! Let us all cleave to the King James
    Bible of 1611, and pray that this not be so
    of Ingrid Schlueter. She is an agent of Rome,
    seeking to seduce the church of North America
    and subject free men to the power of the Papacy!
    A POX on her, out out, come out all of you NOW!
    I stand with Righteous King James and his MEN
    who fought this error with their blood.
    Amen

  38. Jeff Ruzicka says:

    I have a problem with the divisive comments against Ingrid Schlueter and that is there should be no division on something that celebrates the cross if it keeps in mind and preaches Christ also raised from the dead. Did not Paul use the unknown god with Greeks. I suppose now Ingrid Schlueter’s opponents will write that this makes Paul a pagan.

  39. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Jeff

    Um Jeff, the unknown god example can’t work with Ingrid because Ingrid is SUPPOSED TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE CHRISTIAN, not a pagan Greek who knows nothing.

    Secondly. It’s a CATHOLIC celebration Jeff. What part of this don’t you understand?

    Thirdly, please supply scripture where Jesus says we are to celebrate anything other than the Lords Supper to remember HIM?

    Fourthly, Paul did not partake in an ungodly celebration while PREACHING to the Greeks.

  40. Beth says:

    So, what is your point about Ingrid? Are you saying she isn’t a real Christian? That she is a pagan? Please explain what you are saying for me who is having a tough time following your train of thought.

    I’d also like you to explain why it is wrong for Christians to remember the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross of Calvary? Are you saying that only Catholics or pagans or misguided Christians do that sort of thing?

    Thanks for your consideration.

  41. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Oh boy, someone does not pay attention.

  42. Burning Lamp says:

    Debs, after your 3 month histus it seems it is delusion as normal. Sigh……….

    Great to have you back my friend!! I was SOOOO concerned about you!!! Been praying for you!!!

  43. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    BL

    Hi my dear dear friend. Thank you for all your emails and all your prayers. I am so happy to be back. I thought about everyone every day, and read an email on occasion, but just didn’t have energy to reply. I am still on a ‘go-slow’, only allowing myself a few hours on the blog a day for starters – my little brain needs TLC.

    love ya!!!

  44. Evan Deters says:

    Schlueter is a total flake. I’ve seen her
    waffle on almost every point of doctrine,
    at the same time railing at the smallest
    perceived offenses on the part of others
    she thinks have strayed from the ‘straight
    and NARROW’. She’s just looking for attention,
    and like some kind of radio shock jock deals
    in stuff that gets the public attention. She’s
    like a mirror image of Howard Sterns. Haven’t
    heard her lately, but tune her in some time.