Paul Washer – Practice the Presence: Silence and Meditation

Paul Washer

Paul Washer – Practice the Presence: Silence and Meditation

Notes on the Youtube video below (Busyness and Spiritual Discipline by Paul Washer):

The first part has audio problems, but after minute 4:44 the audio is fixed. You can hear him repeating the same lies and leading sincere people away from genuine Faith in Christ. The Presence of God is not an experience. I am in God’s Presence through the blood of Jesus Christ, not by being silent and sitting at His feet. To be sitting at His feet means that you are learning from Him the truth that is written in the Word of God.

Comments are sprinkled throughout.  At the very beginning of the message he speaks of silence and meditation (5:50) and cites a poem or something that refers to the sacred silence (6:53).  The part were he talks about Practice the Presence is at (21:45) – Paul Washer is quoting “Brother Lawrence – Contemplative Monk”  (1611- 1691). 

Busyness and Spiritual Discipline by Paul Washer – Youtube on December 10, 2009.

 

Who was Brother Lawrence:He uses the phrase “Practice the Presence” and refutes the idea that you can pray as you go, but then he gives it heed by saying you must practice the presence in a time of stillness and solitude. He didn’t use those exact words, but that is the message. These are the buzz words. This teaching is being woven into the teaching of those who are trusted and it is sad to recognise it for what it is. A little leaven meant to leaven the whole lump.

 width=“[T]he 17th century [French] monk, Brother Lawrence, developed a technique–mostly through inspiration and intuition–which leads to results akin to those developed by the continued practice of either Zen or mindfulness meditation. In The Practice of the Presence of God” he wrote:

“This made me resolve to give the all for the All: so after having given myself wholly to GOD, to make all the satisfaction I could for my sins, I renounced, for the love of Him, everything that was not He; and I began to live as if there was none but He and I in the world … I worshipped Him the oftenest that I could, keeping my mind in His holy Presence, and recalling it as often as I found it wandered from Him. I found no small pain in this exercise, and yet I continued it, notwithstanding all the difficulties that occurred, without troubling or disquieting myself when my mind had wandered involuntarily. I made this my business, as much all the day long as at the appointed times of prayer; for at all times, every hour, every minute, even in the height of my business, I drove away from my mind everything that was capable of interrupting my thought of GOD. Such has been my common practice ever since I entered into religion.”   Western Mystical Traditions (Quote by Brother Lawrence from First Letter)

Source:  www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/brotherlawrence.htm

Paul Washer and a few of his staff members at HeartCry Missionary often quote C.S. Lewis and promote his books along with J.I. Packer

Lewis’s Acceptance by Evangelicals width=

  1. According to a Christianity Today reader’s poll in 1998, Lewis was rated the most influential writer.
  2. Though Lewis died in 1963, sales of his books have risen to two million a year.
  3. In an article commemorating the 100th anniversary of Lewis’s birth, J.I. Packer called him “our patron saint.”
  4. Christianity Today said Lewis “has come to be the Aquinas, the Augustine, and the Aesop of contemporary Evangelicalism” (“Still Surprised by Lewis,” Christianity Today, Sept. 7, 1998).
  5. Wheaton College sponsored a lecture series on C.S. Lewis, and Eerdmans published “The Pilgrim’s Guide” to C.S. Lewis.

Lewis’s Heresies

  1. Christianity Today noted that he was “a man whose theology had decidedly unevangelical elements” (CT, Sept. 7, 1998).
  2. He believed in purgatory, confessed his sins to a priest, and had the last rites performed by a Catholic priest (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, pp. 198, 301). He received the Catholic sacrament of last rites on July 16, 1963.
  3. Lewis rejected the doctrine of bodily resurrection (Biblical Discernment Ministries Letter, Sept.-Oct. 1996).
  4. He believed there is salvation in pagan religions.
  5. Lewis denied the total depravity of man and the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
  6. He believed in theistic evolution and rejected the Bible as the infallible Word of God.
  7. He denied the biblical doctrine of an eternal fiery hell, claiming, instead, that hell is a state of mind: “And every state of mind, left to itself, every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind-is, in the end, Hell” (Lewis, The Great Divorce, p. 65).

Source:  www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/29/the-new-evangelical-evil-fit-for-a-new-dark-age/

Are all the visible leaders falling for mysticism?

All I can say is that when Jesus Christ came the first time, it was a bunch of nobody’s that he called. The leaders were too busy with their own kingdom to be bothered with the Truth. In fact we know that they wanted to destroy the Messiah. There were apparently a few that eventually listened, but not the majority.

This is the other thing that we must always discern. Has someone changed their theology to be more biblical or are they moving away from a biblical position. We must discern which way their theology is moving. I would hate for someone to quote me from the fall of 2006, because I would have been endorsing the very same teaching that I now oppose. Unfortunately, the trend seems to be exactly what the Bible says, Apostasy!  That is what we are witnessing.

The thing that makes Washer appealing is his stance against lukewarm Christians and push for personal holiness. Funny how we always seems gravitate back to the law. But as Christians we are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul Washer is a staunch Calvinist believing in the 5 points of Calvinism (TULIP)

  • Total Hereditary Depravity
  • Unconditional Election
  • Limited Atonement
  • Irresistible Grace
  • Perseverance of the Saints

Paul Washer uses the Purpose Driven Church Model regarding Unity and Church Planting:

6. “Church Planting is the Primary Work of Missions. There are many gifts and callings in the body of Christ, but all of them are to work together on the mission field with the primary goal of planting a biblical church. It is one thing to do mass evangelism and to boast of the numbers of decisions; it is quite another to establish a biblical church.”   [Emphasis added] www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/statement_of_faith/essential_convictions

Paul Washer supports Dominion Theology/ Kingdom Now Teaching:

7. “True Missions is Costly. Amy Carmichael explained that missions is no more and no less than an opportunity to die. We live in a fallen world that is at enmity with God and opposes His truth; therefore, missions and suffering go hand in hand. Any advancement of the kingdom of Christ into the dominion of the devil will be met with warfare. There are many countries and people groups where  martyrdom cannot be avoided”.  [Emphasis added] www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/statement_of_faith/essential_convictions

[DTW note:  Even though “Amy Carmichael” is speaking about real warfare.  Spiritual warfare can be applied to this as well.  The buzz words – “advancement of the Kingdom of Christ” is what taking dominion is all about]

Paul Washer- Hear tCry Missionary Society

Paul Washer refers to HeartCry Missionary as a SOCIETY

This is very concerning.  Born Again Christians are not part of a society.  They are part of the Body of Christ.   Paul Washer considers his ministry a society of like minded people, with similar interests, purposes and passions.

He is subtly promoting Unity.  Like minded people?  Why not say born again Christians? Anyhow, it’s all about like-minded people coming together (does not matter what type of Christian you are) as long as you are coming together with one purpose.

“The HeartCry Missionary Society is not a para-church organisation, rather, we are a ministry under the authority and supervision of a local New Testament Church and its elders.

We call ourselves a society simply because the word denotes a proper association of people with similar interests, purposes, or passions. Those of our church and those who faithfully support this ministry have one abiding purpose:  That God’s Name be great among the nations through the redemption of men and the building up of Christ’s bride.”  [Emphasis added] —www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/accountability/church_and_elders

Some of HeartCry Missionary Recommended Links:

  • Grace to You by John MacArthur –  in-depth Bible teaching brings the life-transforming truth of God’s Word to millions of people every day.

[DTW note:  John Mac Arthur is a Calvinist.  Also see article here on John MacArthur exposed – UN connections, and denied the Blood of Jesus Christ and compares Jesus’ Blood as just being ‘liquid’:  John MacArthur I pray this is NOT true! ]

  • Desiring God  by John Piper – Provides God Centered resources from the ministry of Dr. John Piper.

[DTW note: John Piper supports Rick Warren wholeheartedly including contemplative spirituality as he condones Mark Driscoll.     See article on John Piper:  John Piper – Taking Leave and Asks for Forgiveness .      Mark Driscoll on meditation:  Mark Driscoll’s RESURGENCE and EMERGENCE with Catholicism

  • Justin Peters Ministries

[DTW note:  Justin Peters is also a Calvinist]

[EDITED:  27 May 2010 – Paul Washer has rescinded his support for Bill Graham in recent years (The Youth conference video below was filmed in 2002).]

Paul Washer promotes Billy Graham starting 37:00 min into the video.

Billy Graham denies Jesus Christ

Paul Washer and most of the staff at HeartCry Missionary believe in Amillennialism:

Here is a reply to an email I sent to Paul Washer’s Ministry over 2 years ago asking them about Pre-Tribulation, Post-Tribulation, the Rapture, etc.

 from:   Marc Glass <mdglass[at]heartcrymissionary. com>
date:    Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM
subject:   Re:   HeartCry Missionary Society: For Paul Washer / Marc Glass

Deborah,

There are, basically, 3 views on eschatology (the study of the end times).
The first, which you’re most familiar with, is classified as pre-millennial.
A second, as you have mentioned post-millennial.  The third, and what most
of HeartCry’s staff believes, amillennial.
  One very important thing to keep
in mind is that there has been no consensus on what is the correct view for
2,000 years of Christian history.  There have been very good and godly men
in each eschatological camp.  The proper thing to do is to state what you
believe (and just as important, why you believe it) and then have grace and
love towards those who disagree.  This is certainly an issue that if we can
say anything about with certainty, it is that the Scriptures are not
perfectly clear on it.  God bless.

Marc Glass

What is Amillennialism:

Amillennialism (Latin: a- “no” + millennialism)

Amillennialism is a view in Christian end-times theology named for its rejection of the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year long, physical reign on the earth. This is in opposition to pre-millennial and some post-millennial views of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 – see Preterism).

Amillennialism holds that while Christ’s reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgement and establish a permanent physical reign.”

Teaching

“Amillennialism teaches that the Kingdom of God will not be physically established on earth throughout the “millennium”, but rather

  • that Jesus is presently reigning from heaven, seated at the right hand of God the Father,      [DTW Note:  All mankind has to do is preach the gospel and turn the world into a Christian world so that Christ may finally return and judge the wicked]
  • that Jesus also is and will remain with the church until the end of the world, as he promised at the Ascension,    [DTW Note:   This is because they believe the Church is Israel]
  • that at Pentecost, the millennium began, as is shown by Peter using the prophecies of Joel, about the coming of the kingdom, to explain what was happening,     [DTW Note:   Again they can make this claim because they believe that the Church is Israel and that all prophecies have been fulfilled since 70 A.D.]
  • and that, therefore the church and its spread of the good news is Christ’s kingdom.     [DTW Note:   The church and it’s spreading of the good news is NOT Christ’s Kingdom.  The Kingdom of God is the Holy Spirit in every born again Christians life. Amazing how the correct interpretation of scripture changes EVERYTHING.]

Amillennialism also teaches that the binding of Satan described in Revelation has already occurred.

Therefore Satan has been prevented from deceiving the nations  i.e., he can’t prevent the spreading of the gospel.   This is the only binding he will suffer in history.

Amillennialism is sometimes associated with Idealism as both teach a symbolic interpretation of many of the prophecies of the Bible and especially the Book of Revelation.     [DTW Note:   Idealism – the tendency to represent things in their ideal forms, rather than as they are.]

Medieval and Reformation periods

Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematised by St. Augustine in the fourth century, and this systematisation carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.

Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in the The Augsburg Confession-

“Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists and others ‘who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.‘”

Likewise, the Swiss Reformer, Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession which reads

We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgement.”

John Calvin wrote in Institutes that chiliasm is a “fiction” that is “too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation.” He interpreted the thousand year period of Revelation 20 non-literally, applying it to the “various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth.”

chil·i·asm –  the belief that Jesus Christ will return to earth in visible form (after the Tribulation) and establish a kingdom too last 1000 years.

Modern times

Amillennialism has been widely held in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches as well as in the Roman Catholic Church, which generally follows Augustine on this point and which has deemed that pre-millennialism “cannot safely be taught.

Amillennialism is also common among “mainline” Protestant denominations such as the Lutheran, Reformed, Disciples of Christ, and Anglican churches, and even has a significant following amongst Evangelical Christian denominations.

Source:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism

Comparison between Amillennialism and Dominion Theology

  • The belief in Amillennialism or Preterism also called Victorious eschatology is part and parcel of Dominionist Theology.

Amillennialists believes that we are living in the millennial era and Jesus reigns spiritually from heaven.   The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D means that all prophecy in the Bible has been fulfilled – especially the Book of Revelation.

Amillennialists can claim the earth and must dominate by instilling Christian principles and a moral code which will create a Christian society so that Jesus can manifest His presence one day and judge the wicked.

Dominionists can claim the earth and must dominate by instilling Christian principles and a moral code which will create a Christian society so that Jesus can manifest His presence and rule the world.

Amillennialism teaches that the Church is now Israel because natural Israel has been cut off from God.

Dominionism teaches that the Church is now Israel because natural Israel has been cut off from God.  Another word for Dominion Theology is Replacement Theology that teaches that the Church is the replacement for Israel.  The many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel.  All promises Abraham made to Israel now belong to the Church.

Martin Luther, like the Catholics, did not hold that the book of Revelation should be among the Canonical books.

C. Peter Wagner (Head Apostle in the New Apostolic Reformation), has openly declared that he is Amillennial/Preterist.

Victorious eschatology fits dominion theology like a hand in a glove. Eberle and Trench say, “Before Jesus returns, the Church will rise in glory, unity, and maturity. The Kingdom of God will grow and advance until it fills the Earth.”

Victorious eschatology makes a convincing argument that the biblical prophecies concerning the “last days” or the “end times” were literally fulfilled at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The end times marked the ending of the old covenant and the beginning of the new covenant. Jesus literally will return to the earth in the future (see Matthew 24:36-25:46), but none of the signs of Matthew 24:4-34 are expected to precede His return, because they have already occurred. This is known by professional theologians as the Partial Preterist view of eschatology, and it is the view with which I personally identify.”  —  DOMINION! How Kingdom Action Can Change the World  p. 61

Dominionism can be traced back to Ambrose of Milan (338-397), who influenced St Augustine, (354-430).

Ambrose believed that the church should exert political authority over the state so that the courts and government would reflect the morality and ethics teachings of the church.

Martin Luther (1483-1546) and John Calvin (1509-1564) were ardent students of St Augustine’s theology.

In 1540 John Calvin set about creating a Genevan Society.

John Calvin’s plan was to incorporate the church into government by restructuring municipal government so that clergy would be involved in municipal decisions, particularly in disciplining the populace.

Dominionists are using a strategy called the ‘7 Mountains’ strategy where they are taking over top positions through a mass ‘Christian’ movement to infiltrate business, government, media, arts, education, family and religion.

Calvin imposed a hierarchy on the Genevan Society

Dominionists are doing the same through the 5 fold ministry concept (Ephesians 4:11).  The Apostles being at the top of the hierarchy who will govern the world.

Calvin began a series of statute reforms to impose a strict and uncompromising moral code on the city

Angus Buchan, Elza Meyer, Graham Power, Dion Forster, Stephen Johnson, Bennie Mostert with their programs such as Turn2God, Mighy Men Conference and Global Day of Prayer, are beginning to promote a strict moral and ethical code over the people of South Africa under the name of “Unashamedly Ethical, which I am sure will become a society soon enough.

The Genevan Society is actually a small scale model of what the Dominionists are currently doing to the whole world, and very successfully I might add.

Calvin’s idea was to enforce a new Christian moral code on the Geneva City.

Dominionists are currently doing the exact same.  They are enforcing an ethical code on mankind based on morals, values and principles,

A great emphasis is placed on man’s efforts, good works and the law – the right wing Christian calls it Revival, the left wing Religious calls its social transformation – revival of socialism.

Preterism and Dominionism originated from Roman Catholicism – The Preteristic Catholic church gives us the oldest Dominion Theology model.

Amillennialists believe that there will be no rapture.

Dominionists believe there will not be a rapture either.

Dominion Theology encompasses a special group of believers who will take control of the world.

These ‘special’ people are known as covenant people or overcomers (better known as ‘Joel’s Army’)

These chosen Dominionists see themselves as being elected/chosen by God to bring the world under the submission of the Church.

Calvinism believes in the same thing:  Unconditional Election or Predestination

In order for Dominionists to create their new Christian world, the people must be either coerced or lied too, into believing in this false Christianity.  Over time if you have not joined the movement you will be declared wicked and punished or purged from society

Calvinism believes in the same thing:   Total Hereditary Depravity

Amillennialists believe that there will be no anti-Christ in the future because he already showed himself in 70 A.D. which resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem – Satan is currently bound.  Therefore Revelation prophecy has already been fulfilled.

Amillennialists believe there is no coming tribulation as this too took place in 70 A.D.

[DTW note:  This is a very scary thought because if the anti-Christ has already been done and dusted back in 70 A.D then the current world should only expect Jesus Christ to return.  The world does not need to worry about an anti-Christ at all.  This is however completely false as masses of people will end up accepting the false Christ as being Jesus Christ the Son of God.]

The only project for Amillennialists/Dominionists is to reclaim the world for their Christ by preaching a gospel (does not matter what gospel as long as it mentions ‘Christ’).

And in doing so they will create a society of  people with similar interests, purposes, or passions that will dominate the world in order to create the Kingdom of God, a Heaven on Earth so that The Christ will return.  This is also called ‘God’s Plan or God’s Dream’.

Calvinism, Dominionism, Kingdom Now teaching, Replacement Theology, Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God teaching, Word of Faith, New Apostolic Reformation, Emerging Church Movement, Transformation, Reformation, etc, etc.  is all one and the same doctrine…

All these doctrines are can be classified under different things:

  • different names,
  • different terminology
  • different definitions
  • different interpretations of scripture
  • different eschatology
  • different theology
  • different ways of receiving the false spirit

The entire point is to make you think they are completely different doctrines when in fact they are all the same and each one of these movements will cause you to die spiritually if you don’t get out – they will ALL lead you back to Rome and to hell.

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

151 Responses

  1. Burning Lamp says:

    This is an excellent article except for this statement:

    [Edited: I fixed that part…removed…I will replace it at a later stage with more conclusive evidence, thanks Buring Lamp]

  2. cecilia says:

    thanks for this eye-opener D! working through it now! the LORD bless you!

  3. Valerie says:

    Thanks for posting this article. I look forward to reading the comments of others.

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Valerie

    Thanks ;)

    >> I look forward to reading the comments of others.

    Yes me too. Although I am not so sure I am looking forward to the comments though. Can one look backwards instead? HA HA. Yeah bad bad joke.

  5. Elmarie A says:

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thank you Debs for this, I eco Cecilia’s words.

  6. Jenn says:

    FAMOUS RAPTURE WATCHERS – Addendum

    by Dave MacPherson

    (The statements in my “Famous Rapture Watchers” web article appeared in my 1983 book “The Great Rapture Hoax” and quoted only past leaders. The following names include other leaders who were quoted in that original printing.)

    Oswald J. Smith: “…I am absolutely convinced that there will be no rapture before the Tribulation, but that the Church will undoubtedly be called upon to face the Antichrist…” (Tribulation or Rapture – Which?, p. 2).

    Paul B. Smith: “You are perfectly free to quote me as believing rather emphatically in the post-tribulation teaching of the Bible” (letter dated June 9, 1976).

    S. I. McMillen: “…Christians will suffer in the Great Tribulation” (Discern These Times, p. 55).

    Norman F. Douty: “…all of the evidence of history runs one way – in favor of Post-tribulationism” (Has Christ’s Return Two Stages?, p. 113).

    Leonard Ravenhill: “There is a cowardly Christianity which…still comforts its fainting heart with the hope that there will be a rapture – perhaps today – to catch us away from coming tribulation” (Sodom Had No Bible, p. 94).

    William Hendriksen: “…the one and only second coming of Christ to judgment” (Israel in Prophecy, p. 29).

    Loraine Boettner: “Hence we conclude that nowhere in Scripture does it teach a secret or pre-tribulation Rapture” (The Millennium, p. 168).

    J. Sidlow Baxter: “…believers of the last days (there is only one small part of the total Church on earth at any given moment) will be on earth during the so-called ‘Great Tribulation’ ” (Explore the Book, Vol. 6, p. 345).

    Merrill C. Tenney: “There is no convincing reason why the seer’s being ‘in the Spirit’ and being called into heaven [Revelation 4:1-2] typifies the rapture of the church…” (Interpreting Revelation, p. 141).

    James R. Graham: “…there is not a line of the N.T. that declares a pre-tribulation rapture, so its advocates are compelled to read it into certain indeterminate texts…” (Watchman, What of the Night?, p. 79).

    Ralph Earle: “The teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture seems first to have been emphasized widely about 100 years ago by John Darby of the Plymouth Brethren” (Behold, I Come, p. 74).

    Clarence B. Bass: “…I most strongly believe dispensationalism to be a departure from the historic faith…” (Backgrounds to Dispensationalism, p. 155).

    William C. Thomas: “The return of Jesus Christ, described by parousia, revelation, and epiphany, is one single, glorious, triumphant event for which we all wait with great eagerness!” (The Blessed Hope in the Thessalonian Epistles of Paul, p. 42).

    Harold J. Ockenga: “No exegetical justification exists for the arbitrary separation of the ‘coming of Christ’ and the ‘day of the Lord.’ It is one ‘day of the Lord Jesus Christ’ ” (Christian Life, February, 1955).

    Duane Edward Spencer: “Paul makes it very clear that the Church will pass through the Great Tribulation” (“Rapture-Tribulation” cassette).

    J. C. Maris: “Nowhere the Bible teaches that the Church of Jesus Christ is heading for world dominion. On the contrary – there will be no place for her, save in ‘the wilderness,’ where God will take care of her (Rev. 12:13-17)” (I.C.C.C. leaflet “The Danger of the Ecumenical Movement,” p. 2).

    F. F. Bruce: “To meet the Lord [I Thessalonians 4:17]…on the final stage of…[Christ’s] journey…to the earth…” (New Bible Commentary: Revised, p. 1159).

    G. Christian Weiss: “Some people say that this [‘gospel of the kingdom’ in Matthew 24:14] is not the gospel of grace but is a special aspect of the gospel to be preached some time in the future. But there is nothing in the context to indicate this” (“Back to the Bible” broadcast, February 9, 1976).

    Pat Brooks: “Soon we, in the Body of Christ, will be confronted by millions of people disillusioned by such false teaching [Pre-Tribism]” (Hear, O Israel, p. 186).

    Herman Hoeksema: “…the time of Antichrist, when days so terrible are still to arrive for the church…” (Behold, He Cometh!, p. 131).

    Ray Summers: “Because they [Philadelphia] have been faithful, he promises his sustaining grace in the tribulation…” (Worthy Is the Lamb, p. 123).

    George E. Ladd: “[Pretribulationism] may be guilty of the positive danger of leaving the Church unprepared for tribulation when Antichrist appears…” (The Blessed Hope, p. 164).

    Peter Beyerhaus: “The Christian Church on earth [will face] the final, almost superhuman test of being confronted with the apocalyptical temptation by Antichrist” (Christianity Today, April 13, 1973).

    Leon Morris: “The early Christians…looked for the Christ to come as Judge” (Apocalyptic, p. 84).

    Dale Moody: “There is not a passage in the New Testament to support Scofield. The call to John to ‘come up hither’ has reference to mystical ecstasy, not to a pretribulation rapture” (Spirit of the Living God, p. 203).

    John R. W. Stott: “He would not spare them from the suffering [Revelation 3:10]; but He would uphold them in it” (What Christ Thinks of the Church, p. 104).

    G. R. Beasley-Murray: “…the woman, i.e., the Church…flees for refuge into the wilderness [Revelation 12:14]…” (The New Bible Commentary, p. 1184).

    Bernard L. Ramm: “…as the Church moves to meet her Lord at the parousia world history is also moving to meet its Judge at the same parousia” (Leo Eddleman’s Last Things, p. 41).

    J. Barton Payne: “…the twentieth century has indeed witnessed a progressively rising revolt against pre-tribulationism” (The Imminent Appearing of Christ, p. 38).

    Robert H. Gundry: “Divine wrath does not blanket the entire seventieth week…but concentrates at the close” (The Church and the Tribulation, p. 63).

    C. S. Lovett: “Frankly I favor a post-trib rapture…I no longer teach Christians that they will NOT have to go through the tribulation” (PC, January, 1974).

    Walter R. Martin: “Walter Martin finally said…’Yes, I’m a post-trib’ ” (Lovett’s PC, December, 1976).

    Jay Adams: “Today’s trend is…from pre- to posttribulationism” (The Time Is at Hand, p. 2).

    Jim McKeever: “Nowhere do the Scriptures say that the Rapture will precede the Tribulation” (Christians Will Go Through the Tribulation, p. 55).

    Arthur Katz: “I think it fair to tell you that I do not subscribe to the happy and convenient theology which says that God’s people are going to be raptured and lifted up when a time of tribulation and trial comes” (Reality, p. 8).

    Billy Graham: “Perhaps the Holy Spirit is getting His Church ready for a trial and tribulation such as the world has never known” (Sam Shoemaker’s Under New Management, p. 72).

    W. J. Grier: “The Scofield Bible makes a rather desperate effort…it tries to get in the ‘rapture’ of the saints before the appearing of Antichrist” (The Momentous Event, p. 58).

    Pat Robertson: “Jesus Christ is going to come back to earth again to deliver Israel and at the same time to rapture His Church; it’s going to be one moment, but it’s going to be a glorious time” (“700 Club” telecast, May 14, 1975).

    Ben Kinchlow: “Any wrath [during the Tribulation] that comes upon us – any difficulty – will not be induced by God, but it’ll be like the people are saying, ‘The cause of our problems are those Christians in our midst; we need to get rid of them’ ” (“700 Club” telecast, August 28, 1979).

    Daniel P. Fuller: “It is thus concluded that Dispensationalism fails to pass the test of an adequate system of Biblical Interpretation” (The Hermeneutics of Dispensationalism, p. 369).

    Corrie ten Boom: “The Bible prophesies that the time will come when we cannot buy or sell, unless we bear the sign of the Antichrist…” (Tramp for the Lord, p. 187).

    Francis Nigel Lee (eleven earned doctorates!): “Dave MacPherson, in his various books, has made a major contribution toward vindicating Historic Christian Eschatology. The 1830 innovations of the disturbed Margaret Macdonald documented by MacPherson – in part or in whole – immediately spread to Edward Irving and his followers, then to J. N. Darby and Plymouth Brethrenism, and were later popularized by the dispensationalistic Scofield Reference Bible, by Classic Pentecostalism, and by latter-day pretribulationists like J. F. Walvoord and Hal Lindsey.”

    (In light of II Tim. 3:14 which says that we can’t know too much about Bible teachers (Dave MacVersion), I invite you to read my article “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” which can be found on the “Powered by Christ Ministries” site. For the most accurate account of pretribulation rapture history to be found anywhere, obtain my highly endorsed and massively documented book “The Rapture Plot” via online stores such as Armageddon Books. BTW, all of my royalties have always gone to a nonprofit group which has never paid salary to anyone.)
    (Recent News: For a rare look at pretribism’s earliest document, Google “Miss Macdonald’s Vision Located” and “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines” – both featured on Joe Ortiz’s “End Times Passover” blog of Mar. 9 & Mar. 27.)

  7. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Jenn

    Just checking here. Are you against pre-trib? Sorry it’s early in the morning and I am still half asleep.

  8. Valerie says:

    Deborah,

    Yes, is looks like Jenn is opposed to pre-trib.

    All I can say is that if you don’t want to go, that can be arranged. Enoch and Elijah were taken up without dying as a special blessing because they walked closely with the Lord.

    I can’t be sure, but those who would be raptured might be those who are walking closely with their Lord, not just all Christians. That is why in the parable of the 10 virgins there are five wise and five foolish. Five were ready and five weren’t, but they were all looking for the return of the Lord.

    Just some thoughts that I had.

  9. Robbie says:

    Dave Mcpherson
    .. use to be in the top ten most wanted false teachers

    INVENTOR OF FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE HISTORY

    Dave MacPherson is an individual who loves to hate pretribulationism. In fact, he has thought up new ways to express his distain for pretribulationism by fabricating a false history of the pre-trib rapture. For the last thirty-plus years, MacPherson has dedicated his life to full time rapture hating in an attempt to participate in anything that he believes will obstruct its spread.. http://www.raptureready.com/who/Dave_MacPherson.html

    Pat And Billy I will not even discuss… For the rest… Report coming soon… only for Jenn

  10. Rocco T says:

    I’m sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with this post. I watched the full length video 1:20 mins long. I am not here to defend Paul Washer but I will defend the truth. It is true in the Bible and it is true in most sermons, you can’t take words out of context and say “aha, that’s a buzz word” Yes, in the video Paul Washer does say some of the so called “buzz words” that other false teachers and false doctrines have used in the past and present. But if you watched the whole video he even touches on that subject. “Just because a false religion or a false teacher uses certain terms. We are not to run so far away from it that we run past the truth.” (paraphrase).

    If you watched the whole video and took his words in the context of the message. I don’t even see how it is possible that you could come away with the thought that he is preaching “Contemplative thought” in the sense that false religions do. The Bible even talks about “meditating on the word” It is not referring to eastern mysticism. The Bible and Paul Washer in that video were referring to being close to God in prayer. praying your prayers and praising his name but also thinking about his word constantly and while in prayer, make time to just sit and be quiet before the Lord so that he can talk to you.

    Our society with all of it’s false religion’s has made us “gun shy” so to speak about certain terms and how we should or shouldn’t use them. It is Biblical to meditate on God’s word, not meditation like eastern cults but true uninterrupted thought about God and his word.

    BIC

    Rocco T

  11. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Rocco

    Your gravatar is a pentagram. I think you should ‘meditate’ on changing it.

    Please go and study up on contemplative spirituality, will take you a few weeks. Once you have understood it in it’s entirety, come back and we can talk again.

  12. PS says:

    Rocco,

    As far as the word meditate, consider the following passages. Look up Meditate in your concordance and see what you get…

    Gen 24:63 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels [were] coming.

    Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

    Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

    Psa 63:6 When I remember thee upon my bed, [and] meditate on thee in the [night] watches.

    Psa 77:12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.

    Psa 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

    Psa 119:23 Princes also did sit [and] speak against me: [but] thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.

    Psa 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

    Psa 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: [but] I will meditate in thy precepts.

    Psa 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the [night] watches, that I might meditate in thy word.

    Psa 143:5 I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.

    Isa 33:18 Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where [is] the scribe? where [is] the receiver? where [is] he that counted the towers?

    1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

    H1897 הָגָה hagah hä·gä’ meditate, mourn, speak, imagine, study, mutter, utter, roaring, sore, talk

    H7742 matches the Hebrew שוח (suwach).(meditate*) AND H7742 (Gen. 24:63).

    H7878 matches the Hebrew שִׂיחַ (siyach), which occurs 20 times in 20 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV

    I meditate on scripture, how else are you to memorize it? I talk to God out loud, coming and going, preach to myself, etc. And, I can assure you, none of it is contemplative mysticism.

    Deb, Pride goes before destruction. There are no puffed out chests in heaven. Nobody struts into the kingdom of God. Matt 5:3 – Blessed are the poor in spirit. Meditate on this verse. Tape it to your monitor. Repeat it often. Beseech the Spirit to illuminate this truth to you.

    Be encouraged Rocco,

    PS

  13. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    PS

    I meditate on scripture, how else are you to memorize it? I talk to God out loud, coming and going, preach to myself, etc. And, I can assure you, none of it is contemplative mysticism.

    Deb, Pride goes before destruction. There are no puffed out chests in heaven. Nobody struts into the kingdom of God. Matt 5:3 – Blessed are the poor in spirit. Meditate on this verse. Tape it to your monitor. Repeat it often. Beseech the Spirit to illuminate this truth to you.

    You contradict yourself. First you say you do not do comtemplative mysticism and then say the following: “Blessed are the poor in spirit. Meditate on this verse. Tape it to your monitor. Repeat it often. Beseech the Spirit to illuminate this truth to you”

    Here is my answer to you

    Matthew 6:7 “But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

    1 Kings 18:26 “Then they took the ox which was given them and they prepared it and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon saying, “O Baal, answer us.” But there was no voice and no one answered. And they leaped about the altar which they made”

  14. Amanda says:

    Practicing the Presence of God
    Ps Leon du Preez
    Sunday, 25 April 2010 PM Service

  15. Elmarie A says:

    Amanda

    Hmmmm what can I say this is the new generation raising the next generation. This is not good. and now I will do the carpet roll thingie……

  16. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Is that the one where you just lie on your back and stare at the ceiling? lol

  17. Elmarie A says:

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Yes and I need to add some new ones as Olak is getting bored with it lol lol

    I had an idea how about an article about the new generation Warriors and how they are raising the next generation Warriors. Any way just an idea. Something like this could heed warnings to parents and young people. Ldp could be a good subject and example to use.There is plenty of material on those websites.

  18. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Elmarie

    Totally, there are hundreds of these ‘young’ pastors out there who are leading youth astray.

  19. Alan Heron says:

    Hi All,
    Two things;
    Firstly; Paul Washer has rescinded his support for BG in recent years (The Youth conference video was filmed in 2002).

    Secondly; On being asked directly about the apparent support for Contemplative Prayer, the Heartcry office replied to me the following:-

    “Alan, thank you for your email, I am always glad to begin a dialog with brothers and sisters in the Lord.

    Please if you would like to contact to talk about this in detail with me the best way would be Skype
    My username is bonny.joy – I would be pleased to talk to you about your email.

    In short Paul does not advocate contemplative prayer.

    I apologize that I can not go into this in great detail over email but I would be please to correspond with you.

    ~ Jon Green”

    Now, I know that others who definitely DO advocate CP (e.g.;Focus on the Family), also deny that they do, but that tactic only works for a millisecond with those who are determined to
    know the truth, so it shouldn’t be too hard to work out what’s what.
    I’ll pass on whatever transpires from conversations with Jon Green to this blog.
    Love & blessings in Jesus’ name,
    Alan.

  20. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Alan

    Cool. I will add to my article that Paul Washer no longer supports Billy Graham. [EDITED: I have added this]

    As for the Contemplative thing. Well…. he sure manages to pick the right words that sound exactly like the contemplatives sound. All this ‘new language’ was never around before so why the change.

    But then again I suppose this is what happens when one thinks St Augustine was not a catholic. If Augustine was around today and he said jump they would all shout. ‘How high?’

    Keep up posted

  21. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Alan

    Ask him if he thinks John Piper is still ok?
    And if he agrees that the Blood of Jesus Christ is just ‘liquid’ as per what John MacArthur thinks.

  22. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Alan

    >> I apologize that I can not go into this in great detail over email but I would be please to correspond with you.

    Wonder why they can’t just go into detail in email. What’s the secret? Takes more time to correspond with you in person than to just send out a mass email stating in detail that they do no promote contemplative spirituality.

  23. Alan Heron says:

    Deborah

    Yeah, I agree. I’d say from what I have read and heard of Paul Washer, that there’s probably a hierarchy in place, so that any comments must be submitted to a review before they can be posted, or emailed, but then again, I sometimes prefer to at HEAR the person I’m conversing with, as the tone of voice makes communication easier. Also, clarification of a point in a phone conversation is immediately available, whereas with emails, etc, while a person may be writing a response to a question, the asker has already jumped ahead and added another email, leading off on a different tack, so that the answer becomes a point of confusion, rather than clarifying something.

    Anyway, let’s shake the tree and see what falls out shall we? ;-)
    We are either giving them a chance to clear up a misunderstanding, or we are giving them a chance to confirm that they are in fact walking a different path. Or, just possibly, we may have an opportunity to get them to rethink some things.
    Having heard Paul Washer preach, I find it puzzling that he is calvinist in his doctrine. What is the point of such impassioned preaching, if the issue is already decided? Doesn’t make sense. However, I have come across many people throughout my life, who will state quite forcefully their belief on a particular subject and yet be just as forceful on another subject and not see that they are mutually exclusive. I had a preacher just recently give a great sermon on Matthew 7. The whole chapter. He was brilliant in his exegesis and exposition. He spoke about how important it is to remember that it’s not the things people do in Jesus’ name that make them disciples of Him, but that it’s their relationship to him as Lord that’s the test. It was a very good sermon and very timely.

    Then he went on to talk about a person who had an amazingly disproportionate effect on Presidents, Prime Ministers, and other world leaders because, as he put it, this person carried the Holy Spirit in them and that was what commanded the respect of all these dignitaries. I began to wonder where he was going at this point, because a person filled with the Holy Spirit is more likely to have the opposite effect on sinful world leaders according to how I read the Bible. I was stunned when he said that he was talking about Mother Theresa! Then he told about she MUST have been filled with the Holy Spirit, because look at all the things she did in the name of Christ! The very thing he had been saying we should be careful of doing, he did! As an example of how slippery deception is, I think it is without peer in my experience.
    After the service, I spoke to my Pastor about the issue and he graciously accepted my words and acknowledged the error. I thank God for the whole episode, because it serves as an even greater warning of the wiles of the devil and how careful we must always be.
    God grant that Paul Washer and those at Heartcry will be as open to correction.

  24. Amanda says:

    In his sermon, Pastor Leon explains in detail to the youth how to practice the presence of God. He also says at around the 18 min mark:

    But there is a thing called relationship covenant, which Pastor Marc spoke about a week or two ago, okay, where we can get into our room, where we can enter into that intimacy, that intimate place, that secret place of the most high God. Right there is the place where you will have visions and dreams and trances. Right there is the place where you will see your future.

    He quotes Joel 2:28. Then:

    You guys know the Scripture, okay? But the language of the Holy Spirit is visions and dreams. That is the language of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we pray in the spirit also, but the language of the Holy Spirit is through visions and dreams and trances. And when we get into that secret place, it is not just for the great preachers. We can spend time in that secret place with God and we can see visions. We can have dreams and God can come and speak to us with an audible voice. The Holy Spirit speaks. That is very clear in the Bible. Amen? Those experiences are available for every single one of us.

  25. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Alan

    Oh yes, you know how many people think Mother Theresa was Christian? Can’t even give a figure.

    And yes, when someone has the Holy Spirit in them there is absolutely the opposite effect. So when you see the ‘love’ know there is something not right.

    And I agree personal conversation does indeed clear up many issues and quickly. I had one of those once lol. But it becomes a ‘your word vs. their word’ which helps no one else especially in what we are trying to do here. It’s funny I don’t recall Paul having a panel to have a discussion on what to write in their letters ;) because he spoke the truth all the time.

  26. Phil says:

    Deb,

    I did not contradict myself. I admit it. I memorize scripture! I speak it! And, I am advising you to read the words of Christ Himself and think long and hard on Matt. 5:3. Marinate your heart with that verse. Repeating scripture so that it becomes more of a reality in your life is not babbling.

    You completely failed to deal with the 13 pasages of scripture I posted. You really do not need to go further than Psa. 1:2. “…in his law doth he MEDIATE day and night.” Are you going to deal with the text or is this when you really go into ad hominem attack mode?

    H1897 – mutter, utter, speak, imagine……………..

    PS

  27. Elmarie A says:

    Amanda

    Thanks my thoughts on this one:

    Right there is the place where you will have visions and dreams and trances. Right there is the place where you will see your future.

    Where in the Scripture does it say one will see the future?
    The word trance he will back up from the book of Acts i think and one will find it is miss used/understood. Acts 10:10, Acts 11:5, Acts 22:17
    Leon seem to teach Meditation and sound like Abel Pienaar.

    Oh I can see so much who his learning school Masters was and it does not look good with the likes of Benny Hinn , Manasseh Jordan, Bill Johnson, Mark Driscoll , Josh Radford, Rick Warren, Kim Clement ,Rodney Howard-Browne, Steve Hill ,Nardus Nell, Max Lucado, Morris Cerullo, These are his Twitters he follows. http://twitter.com/leondupreez/following

    There is much more to be said.

  28. Amanda says:

    South African youths know all about meditatio. And lectio and oratio and contemplatio. And renewing the mind through meditatio. And silence and walking the labyrinth and the 14 stations, alternative worship services and now trancing. They have been taught that the Gospel is “love your neighbour” and that it is the church’s duty to change the world.

  29. Amanda says:

    Pastor Leon at about min 36:

    How do I spend time with God? Very easy. You spend time with Him. You go into your room. You put on praise and worship and you start praising, and this is even for adults, because this thing never changes. You put on praise and worship and you start praising in your room. Then you start worshiping Him. And here by the fourth song, you’re worshiping, the fifth song, your are worshiping and all of a sudden you feel something changes in your room. And then you carry on and you carry on and you carry on and, maybe by the sixth, seventh song, this is just me, this is how I do it. And I feel the presence of God get stronger. Then I start praying and then by your first hour, second hour, fifth hour, God just gets stronger and stronger and stronger. And then, all of a sudden you get a vision about someone or something or about you and about your life and about the future that God has for you. And then you get closer. You don’t want to leave that place. You just want to carry on praying and praying. And that’s how we build a relationship with Him. Very simple. Amen?

    Phew!

  30. Elmarie A says:

    And after changing the world to suit them it becomes :

    Going Beyond Only Discovering The Kingdom To Possessing The Kingdom

    Many of us have discovered the Kingdom. We have seen healings, miracles, signs and wonders. We have seen the demonic manifest and being cast out and we have seen 100’s upon thousands of souls saved, but there is one thing we are missing- Very few of us are operating in this realm on a daily basis.

    There is a big difference between discovering the Kingdom and possessing the Kingdom. Many of us have discovered the Kingdom, but we are not possessing it. How do I come to the place of possessing it?

    Matt 13:44 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for the joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.”

    Please take note of the red highlighted key words.

    The Kingdom is hidden and many of us have found it! But we are not yet possessing it. The man in this parable had joy over it. When last did we have joy over the Kingdom and the things of God and the spirit?

    I like to ask the following question to Christians: Do you have more joy over your friend getting saved or getting a brand new car for free?

    When we have joy for the things of God and getting back our first love then we will come to the place of applying the next step. The verse carried on and said “…he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.” … Unless we give everything we have for Him, we cannot possess the Kingdom. Unless we surrender everything, we cannot possess the Kingdom. Please take note that we cannot surrender our whole lives to Him unless we have, and get back our joy for the Kingdom and the things of God; unless we return to our first love!

    I believe that God wants to take us further than mere discovering the Kingdom, He wants to take us to a place of possessing the Kingdom! I believe that is the next phase for us as the body of Christ! I can see that the door has opened in the spirit, in order for us to step through it!

    Join me as we press in, pushing forward to possess and obtain that which God has for every single one of us!

    Blessings and Much Love,

    Leon du Preez

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