Pope Mortified that he was found practicing Mortification

Pope John Paul II regularly carried out mortification of the flesh, according to Polish nuns - © 2009 Associated Newspapers LtdSo why DID Pope John Paul II whip himself?

By Peter Stanford
Last updated at 9:40 AM on 24th November 2009

The image is as arresting as it is intriguing. Pope John Paul II, who died in 2005, regularly used to whip himself, according to one of the team of Polish nuns who looked after him.

‘We were in the next room and we would hear the sound of the blows,’ reports Sister Tobiana Sobodka, in evidence revealed this week by the Vatican Commission considering whether to declare John Paul a saint.

In Catholicism, there is a long tradition among saints, mystics and scholars of inflicting pain on your body as both a form of penance for sins, and in imitation of Christ’s suffering at the hands of the Roman soldiers who whipped him before putting him to death on the cross.

So, to the members of the Vatican Commission making public these details of John Paul’s life may have seemed a normal way of demonstrating what a holy man he was.

But to those outside the Catholic faith in our secular, sceptical age, mortification of the flesh, to give the practice its proper religious name, appears more than a bit strange.

In Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code,  for instance, the murderous albino monk, Silas, is depicted flagellating himself while praying, using a ‘discipline’, a cat-tail whip made of knotted cord, flung over the shoulder until it draws blood.

The clear implication of the scene is that he is a ghastly villain with perverse if not perverted habits.

 

Yet there is a long list of distinguished figures in the Church who mortified their flesh like Silas.

Read more here:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1230351/So-DID-Pope-John-Paul-whip-himself.html

——

Pope John Paul ‘would whip himself before he ordained priests’

By Nick Pisa
Last updated at 1:18 AM on 24th November 2009

Pope John Paul II regularly whipped himself in ‘remorse for his sins’, a nun has revealed. Pope John Paul II regularly whipped himself in a sign of 'remorse for his sins,' Polish nun Tobiana Sobodka has revealed - © Chris German

Pope John Paul, who died in 2005, is being considered for sainthood by the Catholic Church – the ultimate accolade and a tribute to his holiness.

As part of the Vatican’s investigation, thousands of documents have been collected and examined by officials from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.

Among them is the testimony of Polish nun Tobiana Sobodka, of the Sacred Heart of Jesus order, who worked for Pope John Paul in his private Vatican apartments and at his summer residence in Castel Gandolfo near Rome.

Sister Sobodka said: ‘Several times he (Pope John Paul) would put himself through bodily penance.

‘We would hear it – we were in the next room at Castel Gandolfo. You could hear the sound of the blows when he flagellated himself. He did it when he was still capable of moving on his own.’

The flagellation is also confirmed by another bishop who has given testimony, Emery Kabongo, who for several years was a secretary for Pope John Paul.

He said: ‘He would punish himself and in particular just before he ordained bishops and priests. Before passing on the sacraments he wanted to prepare himself.

‘I never actually saw it myself but several people told me about it

Source:   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230016/Pope-John-Paul-whip-ordained-priests.html

9 Responses

  1. Michael Anthony says:

    This is tragic and painful to read. Anyone that thinks his own, human sacrifice can purge sin is held captive by the evil one. How much sweeter Christ’s Grace becomes when you see salvation for the ultimate sacrifice it really was. And when you read things like this.

  2. Jonathan says:

    Its pretty clear that most Christians have a false understanding of this practise. OBVIOUSLY we are saved by christ alone and no human sacrifice can do this. However when suffering or making ourselves suffer hunger by fasting for example, we with paul “Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church”

    It is best to find out the true story than go on ignorance.
    Peace!
    Jonno

  3. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Johathan

    Col 1:19-25

    19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
    20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
    21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
    22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach–
    23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
    24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.
    25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

    Where does it say that Paul flailed himself?? Paul spent most of his time in prison, being persecuted by others because of the stewardship God had bestowed on him for the church’s benefit. He suffered greatly so that the rest of the Christians should suffer less. He however did NOT persecute himself by being a masochistic.

    The afflictions that born again Christians suffer are also compared to the ‘sufferings of Christ’, however no where near what Christ went though – and to even think so is blasphemous. The suffering of any genuine Christian for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the suffering for the whole body of Christ. Because of Jesus’ death on the cross HE is therefore our strength in times of persecution. As only HE is our ONLY salvation.

    Through out history monks and other Roman Catholics have been known to inflict damage upon themselves trying to imitate Christ. And through self-harm or blood letting think they are cleaning themselves from wickedness. Disgusting.

    Lest we forget those millions who ‘walk’ up 5000 concrete stairs on there knees for ‘fun’? No not fun. To punish themsevles.

  4. Michael Anthony says:

    Jonathan,

    ‘Suffering for Christ’ has nothing to do with our own efforts – it has everything to do with things beyond our control. ‘Make ourselves suffer?’ And you call us ignorant? So you become your own enemy, persecuting yourself? Where does this stop? Why not shoot yourself in the head so you can die a martyr’s death? This is absolute insanity….

    Fasting is not ‘suffering’, it is inconvenient and uncomfortable. In King James English ‘suffer’ also means to ‘permit’.

    Maybe you should read the stories of true Christian persecution – start with Richard Wurmbrand. Christians being tortured and skinned alive, being left to rot in solitary confinement. Because of the hatred of their persecutors…as Christ warned.

    This self-initiated suffering is nothing more than a false humility, a counterfeit holiness and rebellion against God. Most nuns and priests that practiced such things were under demonic influence – ‘feeling’ Christ’s sufferings in their body; it’s called stigmata.

    I even have a massive problem with the ‘Passion of the christ’. The movie was based on the writings of a mystical and stigmatic nun who had diabolical visitations – Anna Katharina Emmerick (1774-1824). In 1812 Anna Katharina became a bleeding stigmatic who had visions of Christ agonising on the cross.

    It is especially catholics who are obsessed with blood and putting Jesus Christ’s once-for-all death (and resurrection) openly to shame all over again. That movie was one big catholic mass.

    I will stop there.

  5. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Michael

    Just talking about the Passion of the Christ – and I agree whole heartedly about that movie. Mel Gibson is a Jesuit.

  6. Jonno says:

    AMEN! Christ is the only way to salvation!

    Your comments are heartfelt and I respect them, however, ignorance of scripture as St Jerome says is ignorance of Christ.We have many examples in the old and new testaments of corporal and interior mortification such as public displays of humiliation in sackcloth and ash, hair shirts, fasts etc.

    The idea behind mortification whether interior [prayer etc] or exterior isn’t some method of “cleansing ourselves of wickedness” [which is impossible], rather they are small sacrifices to dispose us better in the reception of grace, particularly that of control over our fleshly desires and inclinations [ie. anger, sloth, lust, etc]

    The monks and nuns you decry as under the impure spirit were of irreproachable character, performed miracles and did much for the poor and unlearned. Its very typical to make good people despised. Jesus was a great example. Always remember that the protestant beliefs and values originated in the Renaissance and was unknown before then. You have some things to consider…

    Ignorance of history is almost just as bad. Before the Protestant revolt, the place of bodily and interior mortification was understood and practiced by even the fathers of the church if you would care to spend some time reading the ecclesiastic histories and lives of the saints. It was no secret that subduing the flesh or the desires of the carnal man was an important aspect in faith. A proof of Christ’s reign in a soul.

    Even as a born again believer you are tempted and you have to correct it. Just because something is catholic doesn’t make it diabolical, strange perhaps, but only to you who don’t understand a particular practise.

    I doubt that you have read any of St Katherine’s writing or even the life of any of the saints. Again you speak out of ignorance through commission [ie not having read it and making comment thereon. Its like me having an opinion on the declaration of independence, while I’m a south African who doesn’t know anything about it.] I was a baptist before my conversion to Catholicism and have a good grounding in evangelical and charismatic thought. All your fears and suspicions are unnecessary. Get in touch with Truth and give in to the Beloved who in His goodness draws all men to Himself.

    Edited( site url removed);—You might want to have a look at what Catholicism is ACTUALY about
    Edited(site url removed); —- Have a look at the earliest preserved Christian writings (Before the whole "Romish" stigma of the Renaissance

    And Mel Gibson is not a Jesuit. Jeez…its tantamount to saying that Obama is a Rastafarian…
    Peace!

    Jonno (edited email removed)

  7. Burning Lamp says:

    First of all Jonno, you are apparently not aware that the expression “Jeez” is using Christ’s name in vain.

    I don’t know what sect of Roman Catholicism Gibson is a part of, but he is apparently getting a pass on his adultery that has resulted in his wife divorcing him, his fling with his mistress which resulted in a child. Now Gibson has split with his mistress, they are squabbling over custody of the child.

    Evangelicals who fell hook,line and sinker for the Passion movie that is an insult to our Lord and Savior should repent in sackcloth and ashes, but I am willing to bet they will still view this evil film every Easter and continue to delude themselves that this is a true representation of our Lord’s sacrifice. All it was to Mel Gibson was a money-making enterprise and he was aided and abetted in prostituting our Lord by the evangelical world at large. Those who protested were villified and maligned.

    This movie in no way accurately represented the sacrifice on the cross. The physical part was no comparison to the suffering Christ suffered when He bore the sins of the world and the Father had to turn away. The movie focuses only on the physical suffering of Christ which is typical Roman Catholicism.

    Jonno, I know exactly what Roman Catholicism is about. I have done my homework. Perhaps you should do yours. Salvation is through the sacrifice of Christ alone, not through any sacraments of the church. The Roman church is not the original church, but rather a perversion of the New Testament church. It has a history of persecution of the true saints, immoral behavior of the Popes and I could go on and on. Of course you will not believe any of this as you are blinded. I pray you will come to know and accept the truth.

  8. Jonno says:

    First of all Jonno, you are apparently not aware that the expression “Jeez” is using Christ’s name in vain.

    Response:- Well pretty much any exclamation has that claim. Such as oh my WORD, oh my GOODNESS, MERCY me, even WOW, can be called blasphemy if you try hard enough. Lets be practical and not nitpick. Jesus, Iesu, Yeshua etc. is not the same thing.

    I don’t know what sect of Roman Catholicism Gibson is a part of, but he is apparently getting a pass on his adultery that has resulted in his wife divorcing him, his fling with his mistress which resulted in a child. Now Gibson has split with his mistress, they are squabbling over custody of the child.

    -Response: Yes and so is the rest of Hollywood. Christian in name…its an epidemic and a scourge. I think the sect you are referring to is the SSPX. They have caused a lot of division and heartache.

    Evangelicals who fell hook,line and sinker for the Passion movie that is an insult to our Lord and Savior should repent in sackcloth and ashes, but I am willing to bet they will still view this evil film every Easter and continue to delude themselves that this is a true representation of our Lord’s sacrifice. All it was to Mel Gibson was a money-making enterprise and he was aided and abetted in prostituting our Lord by the evangelical world at large. Those who protested were villified and maligned.

    – You may be correct in this. Money-making is a possibility,yet is it also difficult to believe that someone who may be a sinner yet believes in Christ in one way or the other wishes to show some heartfelt even misguided devotion? I expect that you making these claims were at our Saviour’s Crucifixion, so you know exactly what happened?

    This movie in no way accurately represented the sacrifice on the cross. The physical part was no comparison to the suffering Christ suffered when He bore the sins of the world and the Father had to turn away. The movie focuses only on the physical suffering of Christ which is typical Roman Catholicism.

    – You obviously have no idea what Catholicism teaches on the Passion of our Lord, however you are correct that the Catholic church makes use of physical signs which appeals to the senses so that the mind and heart be reached and raised to God (very much like the “smells and bells” of Judaism). Its a very earthy way of presenting the Gospel. For the average Christian they spiritual aspect of the Passion of our Lord was captured by the physical. Why should they be mutually exclusive?

    Jonno, I know exactly what Roman Catholicism is about. I have done my homework.
    – And I have not? Very typical of Christians assuming that we are poor and ignorant when it comes to history and the development of the church and the great gift of Holy Scripture. I would venture to say that your “homework” was found on places like “The Berean Beacon”, “CARM”, “Jack T Chick” and the rest. Try the links above for catholics teaching on the catholic church. DO you ask a Frenchman to teach you Spanish, or a high school dropout the intricacies of brain surgery? I would hope not!

    Perhaps you should do yours. Salvation is through the sacrifice of Christ alone, not through any sacraments of the church.

    – Amen!!! The gift of Salvation is from Christ alone. Your understanding of the role of the sacraments is simply flawed.

    The Roman church is not the original church, but rather a perversion of the New Testament church.
    – Ok. Have a look at the ecclesial histories, letters and teaching by Clement, Ignatius of Antioch and the rest of the early church and show me discrepencies.

    These particular promises stand:
    Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell SHALL NOT PREVAIL against it.

    Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    It has a history of persecution of the true saints, immoral behavior of the Popes
    – and what of immoral ministers in other traditions? A pope is a man. Immorality is to be expected. Lets not be silly. And also, what of the many saints in the church?

    i.e Padre Pio who is apparently a demoniac according to some:

    “I don’t have a minute of free time; it
    is all spent releasing brethren from the grip of Satan.
    Blessed be God! The greatest charity is that of
    liberating souls captivated by Satan and winning
    them for Christ.”

    and I could go on and on. Of course you will not believe any of this as you are blinded.
    -wow! Thats harsh. I could very much say the same thing. All I can say is that if you believe you are then you must be right. Ive had this convo before. between two people in my old baptist church, fighting over their own doctrine…they were both right and could prove it. I was in awe.

    I pray you will come to know and accept the truth.
    -coolbeanz! I appreciate any and every prayer. will pray for u2

    As the Romans would have it,
    Pax tecum!
    Jonno

  9. John says:

    I’m also agree and thank you for the Post.