Peeps around the World

Translate blog:

Blog Stats

wordpress stat

20 Most Recent Comments Scrolling

Christian Top 1000
SA Topsites ::

What a Tragedy ‘Prophet’ Kobus van Rensburg

7DTW AuthorIcon75 What a Tragedy Prophet Kobus van Rensburg

 What a Tragedy Prophet Kobus van RensburgPlease go here to read more about Kobus van Rensburg: 

[NEWS UPDATE – Kobus van Rensburg claims God healed him, and is telling all his followers this.  It has come to my attention that Kobus van Rensburg is in remission, BUT he did receive medication and Chemotherapy.  Kobus van Rensburg is still preaching Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God teaching and even more so promoting that one can be IMMORTAL on earth.  He also teaches his followers that they are Christ.  Please read the comments below (there are many of them) to see the degree of heresy and insanity taught by Kobus van Rensburg.  Also note his followers are not shy in threatening those who stand again Kobus van Rensburg.]

It’s a Tragedy

It has come to my attention that Kobus van Rensburg from Spirit Word Ministries has cancer and is very ill from what I have heard.  His wife Annalise is appearing more and more on his Spirit Word TV channel instead of Kobus as he battles to speak or is just not well enough.  There is very little information about this on the Internet.  Almost as if no one is supposed to find out.

I wrote an article on Kobus here about 2 years ago exposing him as a false prophet, who proclaimed thousands healed from cancer and HIV/AIDS, etc.  He still is a false teacher – nothing has changed, except he himself now has cancer.

So back to Kobus, and thinking about this situation of his.  The only thoughts that come to my mind is;  ‘what a tragedy’.   Here is a man who you can’t even approach and say,

“Dear Kobus, have you heard about Jesus Christ.  He is the ONLY One who can save you. Repent of your sin, repent of everything you have done.  It makes no difference what you have done, God forgives everyone who comes to Him asking for forgiveness.  Jesus Christ the Son of God gave His life so that you may receive eternal life – if you want it.  If you don’t want it and prefer to try be your own little god, you WILL fail and you WILL find yourself facing eternal punishment for doing exactly what Adam and Eve did by falling for Satan’s lie, ‘You surely will not die if you want to be like God?’  Well, yes Kobus you will.

Genesis 3:4-5

4  “The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
5  “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Satan wanted to like God:

Isaiah 14:14

14  ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’

Satan is the father of Lies:

John 8:44

“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

How easy it is for Satan to lead men astray:

2 Corinthians 11:3

But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

There is a face book site dedicated to Kobus van Rensburg (having said that it does not state what’s wrong with him).  All you will find is people leaving comments praying for him to get well soon. You will see the theme of ‘immortality’ come across through the many comments left.  You see Kobus van Rensburg has reached godhood, and is therefore immortal.   Are you confused?  Don’t worry.  Me too.  Apparently in Latter Rain / Manifest Sons of God teaching you can be dead and alive all at the same time….I think.

Facebook: Kobus Van Rensburg will live and not die!!!!!

Now, it’s all very well to pray for Kobus to get well and that God heals him, but without Kobus coming to the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved all hope is lost.

Kobus went to see T. B. Joshua (Church of All Nations SCOAN)  in Nigeria and reported that after coming back to SA had a great anointing of power in his life.  Well Kobus, with the demonic power given to you, you were given demonic cancer as well.

“Repent Kobus, before it’s too late.  You are not immortal, you are not a god, you are a sinner in dire need of a Saviour and that Saviour is Jesus Christ the Son of God, who gave His life that you may be saved.  Through genuine repentance of your sin (everything you have done) and believing in Jesus Christ through faith you can be saved.  You might not beat this cancer Kobus, but you will beat a 2nd death and receive eternal life if only you turn from your wickedness and ask God forgiveness through His Only begotten Son Jesus Christ.  Humble yourself for once before the One and Only Living God like everyone else on this earth will have to do sooner or later.  Get on your knees Kobus, you are no better than anyone else on this earth of ours.  I repent every day of my life for the sinner that I am who needs constant saving.  What makes you think you are so special?  You are not!  Ask God for forgiveness before it’s too late”.

If anyone can find more information on Kobus’ condition, it would be appreciated.  I have contacted Spirit Word Ministries and received no reply.

———————

pixel What a Tragedy Prophet Kobus van Rensburg

402 comments to What a Tragedy ‘Prophet’ Kobus van Rensburg

  • not necessary

    you the owner of this website seem very arrogant and judgemental and seem consumed about ‘fact’finding .. hah … about others and the stumblng block is you dont see the gospel in all its glory because of the beam in your own eye. i bet you are a non-charasmatic and not baptised in the Holy Spirit. The bible speaks of you as one of those of the ‘bond wowman’ who lives ‘in the flesh’, cain v abel, jacob v esau etc and many other analagies who would persecute his own ‘brother’!! are you still sooooo blind and dont see your ownself in the bible yet? repent and believe and be- live ‘The Gospel’and God will have mercy upon you. Judge and you will be judged, for with the same measure you judge others you will be judged the same, put away the pointing of finger from amongst you, i want to know nothing else amongst you except Christ and Him crucified,love one another even as i have loved you, also love your enemy as yourself, is kubos your enemy then even then you MUST love him as you love yourself or else you are nothing but a religiuos hipocrite yourself and have the tennacity to point fingers allday at others!! HUH … get on with your own part in letting The Lord love you so that in turn you can love others thou hipocrite!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Gosh, I didn’t realise that praying for Kobus van Rensburg would cause such trauma among his followers. Well sorry, but my prayer stands that he come to know Jesus Christ that he be saved.

  • not necessary,
    A lot of words spoken, yet not much said! What’s the point of a discernment website and there’s no discernment… get the point!?

    J O

  • Not Necessary

    Dear Sister in Christ

    I am sorry you feel that way about a Man of God. I believe we are all Children of God even you and Prophet Kobus. I also know that if knew the Van Rensburg family you wouldn’t be posting false reports about them. They have the most awesome faith in Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross. The whole point of there ministry is that the Word of God reach everyone in the world and lead them to Jesus. In the the end no matter what you believe, if we believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and our everything and that he washes us clean from all sin and therefore to be rightoeus in his sight then we are all his family and family love each other. I therefore tell you sister in Christ that I love you and bless you with all the blessings of Christ. Remember we all have a part to play in the body of Christ.

    Yours Sincerely

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Not Necessary

    >> I am sorry you feel that way about a Man of God

    Which God?

    >> I believe we are all Children of God even you and Prophet Kobus

    I am a child of the God that calls us to REPENTANCE of Sin – not the god that preaches another Manifest Sons of God teaching where Kobus thinks he is immortal and a little god.

    >> I also know that if knew the Van Rensburg family you wouldn’t’t be posting false reports about them.

    It’s got nothing to do with feelings and knowing them personally. If I knew them personally I would say the same thing right to Kobus van Rensburg’s face. I am sure he has been spoken to many a time about this. These are not false reports about him. You can see and hear everything he has to say on Spirit Word TV.

    >> They have the most awesome faith in Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross.

    Having the most awesome faith in a false doctrine and another Christ is rather pointless is is not? Having faith in a Christ who lies to them and has nailed himself to the cross in Kobus van Rensburg church (the Roman Catholic crucifix he has hanging on the wall – The Eucharist Christ who’s mother is the goddess of fertility – a blasphemous incestuous Christ (the Roman Catholic Mary (the whore) in Revelations who’s cup overflows with the blood of the saints).

    Rev 17:3-6

    3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
    4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
    5 This title was written on her forehead:
    MYSTERY
    BABYLON THE GREAT
    THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
    AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

    Who do you bare testimony too? The whore of Babylon that hangs in Kobus van Rensburg church and all his lying signs and wonders or the Gospel of Jesus Christ the SON OF GOD.

    >> The whole point of there ministry is that the Word of God reach everyone in the world and lead them to Jesus.

    The whole point of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to lead each INDIVIDUAL in the world to individually repent of their sin. The whole point of Kobus ministry is another gospel of money, false signs and wonders, false healings, and leading people to ANOTHER Christ who does not require that people humble themselves before him, but elevate themselves up to God’s level to be like him –

    Genesis 3:1-5

    1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
    2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
    3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
    4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.
    5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    >> In the the end no matter what you believe, if we believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and our everything and that he washes us clean from all sin and therefore to be righteous in his sight then we are all his family and family love each other.

    So you can believe in anything and Jesus Christ and you are saved? Wrong. Jesus says HE is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE – No one comes to the FATHER but by HIM (that by the way EXCLUDES anything else). If you add other false doctrines to the equation you cancel out your salvation.

    >> I therefore tell you sister in Christ that I love you and bless you with all the blessings of Christ. Remember we all have a part to play in the body of Christ.

    Therefore we do not form part of the same family for I follow Jesus Christ the Son of God who died for me and his blood washes me clean only because I REPENT of my SIN and remain REPENTANT of my sins on a daily basis. I test all things by the Holy Spirit who abides in me and councils me in all things that are good and pure. He convicts me of sin and guides me that I steer clear from FALSE teaching and lying men. Of course we all have free will to ignore the Holy Spirit on these issues and follow after wickedness and things of the flesh.

    >> Remember we all have a part to play in the body of Christ.

    What part is this? The part where you follow after a false Christ that leads people to hell?

  • Not Necessary

    I guess this is what you believe and nothing that I can say will change your mind, you must have blessed life in Christ and may you experience all the peace there is in The WORD(The Bible).

    Yours in Christ
    May the Spirit of Lord be with you always

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Oh my word….it’s a miracle, unless someone is lying.

    Quote from

    Denise Herselman – Grace upon Grace……8 days before Prophet married us on the 14th Feb 2009 he was given 7 days to live. 9 months later he is healed. All glory to God…..Prayers continue for strength and full and total restoration. Watch this space we are witnessing a great miracle. How GREAT is our GOD!!!!!

    Hmmmm….

    Anyhow I see he now has a travel agency too as part of his ministry. No, no, not a spiritual travel portal or gateway, a REAL travel agency: SPIRIT WORD TRAVEL DESK where “WE CARE ENOUGH TO MAKE YOUR TRIP SPECIAL”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Not necessary

    Well that was a quick cop-out. Can’t answer my questions? Well I do hope what I have said makes you think a little about what you believe. Cos it is clear as per your comment that we do believe differently.

    I do not accept your blessing for it is from another god.

  • JANE

    Deborah

    You are just too spiritually blind to see that Prophet Kobus is actually the real thing.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jane

    What is the definition of “thing”?

  • JANE

    I really and truly hope that the scales will fall of your eyes so that I don’t have to explain what I mean, you should pray long and hard about this and find the answer for yourself.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    JANE

    Well here is proof that Kobus van Rensburg is false. Kobus van Rensburg – Self Anointed Prophet

    Then we have TB Joshau whom Kobus received his power from: T.B. Joshua – The Deceiver

    And another one for TB Joshua: TB Joshua – False Miracle Man

    Then we have Kobus van Rensburg’s extra mural activities possibly funded on ‘church money’ – I think in Malachi this is called Robbing God (if we are going to use the Word of Faith approach to why the congregation needs to tithe their money to the MINISTER) Kobus van Rensburg is Building a Little Empire

    He is also a big fan of William Branham: William Branham – False Prophet

    Secondly answer me this. He does or does not have cancer? I am hearing conflicting reports. Surely you can answer this one?

    Now please explain to me why he is not false: You came on my site telling me I am wrong, so I want you to tell me why I am wrong. If possible please use scripture to back up why you are right.

    If you can’t explain what you mean and expect a ‘miracle’ of sorts to happen to me that I see the ‘thing’ that Kobus is, then that happened long ago already when the Holy Spirit show me the evil that this man operates from.

    So please do us all a favour and tell us whey Kobus is a Prophet and a real genuine man from God.

    If you can’t tell me why, then I think you need to pray and ask God why you can’t answer this simple question, is it possible that you are the one who has been blinded? God will then instruct you to take your bible and search the Scriptures to see if Kobus van Rensburg preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ or not.

    And after all the informaton I have given you on Kobus and TB Joshua you have a very good place to start looking – given you information on a silver platter for FREE – no change JANE. Just me caring that you are not deceived and that you break free from the lies that is Kobus van Rensburg.

  • cecilia

    Deborah, I nearly made the biggest mistake of my life 5 years ago, to study under Kobus v R. someone told me: agh man, even if you don’t agree with the things he say and do, study under his school and ALL doors will be open for you in future!

    well well, our Father’s grace is unmeasurable, and He warned me even in my sleep, NOT to go that road… and how grateful I am I listened to Him and not to people…
    cecilia

  • cecilia

    oh by the way, I think a lot of people are actually blind, spiritually and leading on to physical blindness. a quick search showed me more than 10 photo’s where Kobus v R is wearing the roman catholic cross. and none of these blind people ask: why? (http://et-ee.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=541078&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=61010865387&id=643502290)
    Oh boy…. it is the longsuffering of Christ which leads men to repentance….
    cecilia

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    C

    Yip, can’t miss it. It’s so big one would mistake him for being a catholic rap artist.

  • Dear Deborah and “discerning the World”, you are a devil.Just like judas.

    No where in Scripture does Jesus rejoice over someone being sick.What if you got cancer.Judge not lest you be judge.

    You are suppose to pray for your enemy not wish bad,especially cancer for them.

    People like you are Pharisee that gain one convert and make them twice a devil.You make unsaved people hate church.You are like vomit.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Prophet Michael Carter

    If I am not mistaken you are the same person who called me the most terrible names via email back in early 2008. Where you said that TB Joshua and Kobus van Rensburg are going to Heaven and I am going to hell.

    Firstly, Michael where have I rejoiced in him being sick? Please quote from the above article that I am happy that he is ill? I do ask if someone can clarify if he is sick.

    And you lie and then call me a devil. Hmmm…

    Lastly, I see you are a faith healer. Have you contacted Kobus to heal him? Kobus is a faith healer to. Surely 2 strong Prophets like yourselves getting together should produce massive godly fireworks and everyone in a 1km radius of where you are standing should be healed.

  • Michael Anthony

    Wow,

    Kobus must have quite a following Deborah, you have stirred up a hornet’s nest.

    For Deborah to be the devil and just like Judas then KVR would be….Jesus? Or the Christ, you know, the anointed one? From what I have read, apparently he is.

    Didin’t Jesus Christ (the real one who was raised from the dead and now sits at the right hand of the Father) warn against ‘anointed ones’, ie christs? (Matthew 24)

    MC,

    You have it backwards.

  • Karin

    Jane & Not necessary,

    Interesting that we jump to defend a man and even quote scripture to do so. May we have the guts to do so when we have to do it for the Messiah.
    If you don’t agree with what is written here, ample scripture references are given in each article. Go and study….under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Then please come back and enter into meaningful dialogue. We can all learn and grow from that!

  • Deborah, I want to thank you for your site! False teachings and prophets are a growing problem. I was lost in this ‘Charismatic Chaos’ but thank God He opened my eyes and set me free.I humbled myself before Him and repented of my sin, my hard heart needed to be brocken. I wasted so many years of my life running after one spiritual ‘experience’ after the other, glorifying people and not God. His grace is big enough for anyone. I pray that God will strengthen you in the work that you are doing – spreading the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Madelein

    Heyyyy lookie here, you have a website :) I’ve noticed a few articles I would like to read and with permission can I post them here?

  • Hi there, yes no problem, as long as the Word gets out!!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thank you very much for that and thank you for your encouragement.

    And I know all about that “charismatic chaos”, got 2 t-shirts, 1 cap and an instructional dvd on how to bind that strongman over and over and over again lol.

    Charismatic chaos is also the title of a very good book.

  • JANE

    I HAVE ALSO BEEN TO ALOT OF CHURCHES AND ONLY BECAME A BETTER CHRISTIAN WHEN I STARTED GOING TO CHARISMATIC CHURCHES AND I KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE CAN GET CAUGHT UP IN SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES BUT THE ONLY REASON I GO IS BECAUSE I’M BEING TAUGHT THE TRUTH AND NOT MAN MADE DOCTRINES(LIKE THE RAPTURE).

  • Yes, I read that book!! There’s many people who should read it too!!! Even people who are not part of the “charismatic chaos” so that they can be warned not to go that route, and what to be aware of. It’s unfortunate how people put feelings and experiences above the authority of the Bible. I did that too :(

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jane

    Did you know that you can find the truth in the Word of God.

    Why is being ‘Caught up’ a man made doctrine? Scripture to back this up please? Seeing as though you go to be taught you should be able to provide back up for your comment.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jane

    You never answered my last questions to you. You seem to know a lot about Kobus van Rensburg. Does he or does he not have cancer?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jane

    Do you believe that you will be a god on earth? Kobus preaches this, that he is immortal and has become a little god. If Kobus preaches the truth, then this is something you believe right?

  • Not much has changed – People (still) calling the author “a devil”… Please bring a better argument to the table!

    Fault finding / personal attack – seems to continue as usual… Funny how one is accused of being critical, judgmental, etc. for simply quoting scripture!

    Again, the articles are relevant, speaks of warning and are very appropriate for the times we live in.

    If you have a problem with the content of this site, then save your bandwidth and at the same time relieve those who engage in constructive conversation of the painful experience to read your thoughts!

    Cheers
    J

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Madelein

    Rejoice that the Lord showed you the truth and you can now warn others.

    What saddens me is when people refuse the Truth. We warn, but we can not save people. We plant a seed and pray that they obey the Holy Spirit voice and listen. If not, there is nothing we can do. But we carry on for out of thousands if there is one that hears, it’s worth it.

    Everyone speaks of revival, transformation, etc, etc. Everyone seems to be coming to Christ. Which Christ is the most important question we always need to ask. And quite frankly it’s very easy to distinguish between the two – but only through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Without Him there is no discernment.

  • JANE

    YES I KNOW THAT YOU FIND THE TRUTH IN THE WORD OF GOD AND THAT IS WHAT I GET. ON YOUR QUESTION WHETHER I BELIEVE I AM GOD NO I DON’T AND IF YOU LISTENED CAREFULLY TO KOBUS’S MESSAGE YOU WOULD SEE THAT HE SAID THAT YOUR NOT GOD BUT GOD WORKS THROUGH YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT(GOD’S SPIRIT). AS FAR AS IMORTALLITY GOES IF YOU BELIEVE IN THAT YOUR SPIRIT NEVER DIES THEN YOU ALSO BELIEVE IN IMMORTALITY. KOBUS’S MESSAGE ON IMMORTALITY STATES THAT THERE IS A GENERATION THAT WILL NEVER DIE BECAUSE THAT GENERATION WILL WITNESS JESUS’S SECOND COMING AND THAT IS ALSO WHAT YOU BELIEVE IF YOU SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jane

    Jane if you go and do a little bit of research (and believe me this does not take long) you will see that the underlying message of what he teaches sounds scriptural but is not. When he speaks about God working through you, he actually believes he has become god-like. There is a big difference between having the Holy Spirit abide in you and thinking that because you have God’s Spirit in you you are now a little god.

    Um, Immortality on earth is impossible. Kobus thinks he is currently immortal on earth – he has reached goodhood and is pretty much equal to Jesus Christ. As a born again Christian you will not die a 2nd death (ie a spiritual death), but you will have eternal life.

    >> KOBUS’S MESSAGE ON IMMORTALITY STATES THAT THERE IS A GENERATION THAT WILL NEVER DIE BECAUSE THAT GENERATION WILL WITNESS JESUS’S SECOND COMING AND THAT IS ALSO WHAT YOU BELIEVE IF YOU SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE

    Huh? You contradict yourself. You said earlier that the rapture is a man made doctrine ie, false. Now you say that Kobus preaches this.

    Anyhow, you confuse this so called ‘generation’ as the church being Israel. You have the wrong timing. Gentiles are not Jews. Jews are not Gentiles. When either are saved they become a NEW creature in Jesus Christ and are born again and become children of God.

    Are we in the tribulation now? If you say there is a generation that will never die, then you speak as though the time of the gentiles is over and you are a Jew.

    Kobus wears a Rabbi scarf during some of his sermons as though he was preaching in a synagogue. (I say Rabbi scarf cos I have idea what this garment is actually called. I am too busy to search it – maybe someone can help with that little detail lol).

    Again, does Kobus have cancer or does he not have cancer? Would you not like to find out how true this is? Has he been healed?

    Did you know that about 2 months ago on Spirit Word TV he was on his knees at William Branham’s pyramid shaped tomb (in the USA) eating grass and sand from around the grave because “God told him” that if he does this he will receive William Branham’s mantle and other ‘great men of God’s’ mantles including Spurgeon. Apparently his frantic appetite to eat grass from a graveyard seems like a Godly thing to do.

    Do you think eating grass or sand from a graveyard is Christian or demonic?

    Again I ask you to provide scriptural back up from YOUR bible that what you say is the truth. There should be tons of verses to back up what you say. Come on Jane, I challenge you to go find scripture for me. And a challenge is not a dare or a game either. This is serious, you need to make really sure you are on the right path, and there are hundreds if not thousands of incorrect ones all with the same end goal – to deceive.

    If I was Spurgeon I would be rolling in my grave at the thought of someone using my name to deceive. (That’s a figure of speech by the way, in case anyone gets any wise ideas)

  • Michael Anthony

    Jane,

    What you are actually following is the ‘manifest sons of god’ teaching which is part of the latter rain movement. This whole teaching is based on a distortion of Romans 8:19 which speaks of the ‘Manifestation of the Sons of God.’ The belief is that some will obtain immortality by incarnating Christ before he returns.

    Have a look at this:

    http://www.letusreason.org/latrain1.htm

  • Michael Anthony

    Because of replacement theology (church replaces Israel) and an absolute denial that God had anything to do with the rebirth of literal Israel (in May 1948) as prophecied in Ezekiel 36,37, and because some of these movements claim to be the real Jews, the bible anticipates this…

    Revelation 2

    9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

    Hear what Jesus Christ himself just said? People that claim to be the real Jews or the real Israel – Jesus calls them the synagogue of Satan….

    Jesus was not allegorizing here, he is referring to literal Jews.

    The church is the church and Israel is Israel. There are two different covenants for each. Romans 9,10,11.

    If anyone beleives that the church has become Israel and inherits all the blessings let me ask you – who gets the curses?

    Just a thought.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >> Manifestation of the Sons of God.’ The belief is that some will obtain immortality by incarnating Christ before he returns

    Exactly. And this ties in with New Age teaching and all other occult teachings that mankind will obtain Christ-likeness on earth – taking dominion of earth.

    Instead of Watching and Praying. Looking for Jesus Christ (AS HE INSTRUCTS) to take the ‘church’ (genuine body of Christ) home spoken as being CAUGHT UP when the tribulation starts (HE TELLS US HE IS THE BLESSED HOPE). During the tribulation the revealing of the anti-Christ etc. AND THEN Jesus Christ’s return where HE SETS FOOT on earth. With the rapture Jesus does not come down to earth; He only appears in the sky, but the whole world will see Him in the twinkling of an eye as lightening flashed from east to west.

    This is why is it very easy to distinguish between the false Christ that is going to appear (the man of lawlessness) as being a lie as he comes with promises of Peace and Safety ON EARTH. When the Biblical Jesus Christ comes down to earth to take His rightful place He will come and DESTROY the enemy and brings JUDGEMENT on the wicked – those who refused Him and the truth and made up their own doctrines.

    So you now have a problem. You need to make sure you are not here when this physical Christ appears and there is still peace, love and joy on earth.

    Anyhow, I still wanna know if Kobus really has/had cancer or not. This is actually the main question here. If someone can answer this question for me it will really help to shed some ‘light’ on the situation.

    Can someone from his ministry oblige? Must be someone from there reading this. My email was ignored.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thanks J O!!

    To be honest the worst I’ve been called was a pig dog. My reply was; you can’t be both at the same time. So pick one and stick with it.

    This helpful advice can be found in my yet to be written “7 Steps to living a good life after being called terrible names”.

  • Yes, I see most people I have contact with rejects the truth, I guess it’s easier than acknowledging to everyone that you have been wrong. Most people looked up to my ‘spiritual status’ but meanwhile I was just as lost as any unsaved sinner. Pro 14:12 “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
    People have to realize that something isn’t right because it’s done in Jesus’ Name. We need to discern which Christ!!! Luk 21:8 “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”
    Test everything with the Word of God, do not just accept anything because it ‘sounds right’. It takes a little effort, but if we truly seek God and study the Bible, we cannot be deceived. Otherwise you will be standing before God one day, saying “I didn’t know” when He tells you to depart from Him, with the manual (the Bible) in your hands…!!

  • cecilia

    Tzitzit and Tallit

    They shall make themselves tzitzit on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and they shall place on the tzitzit of each corner a thread of techeilet. And it shall be tzitzit for you, and you will see it, and you will remember all the mitzvot of the L-RD and do them and not follow your heart or your eyes and run after them. -Numbers 15:38-40
    The Torah commands us to wear tzitzit (fringes) at the corners of our garments as a reminder of the mitzvot. The passage also instructs that the fringe should have a thread of “techeilet,” believed to be a blue or turquoise dye, but the source of that dye is no longer known, so tzitzit are today are all white. There is a complex procedure for tying the knots of the tzitzit, filled with religious and numerological significance.

    The mitzvah to wear tzitzit applies only to four-cornered garments, which were common in biblical times but are not common anymore. To fulfill this mitzvah, adult men wear a four-cornered shawl called a tallit (pictured above) during morning services, along with the tefillin. In some Orthodox congregations, only married men wear a tallit; in others, both married and unmarried men wear one. In Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist synagogues, both men and women may wear a tallit, but men are somewhat more likely than women to do so. A blessing is recited when you put on the tallit. See the text of the blessing at Tallit and Tefillin.

    Strictly observant Jewish men commonly wear a special four-cornered garment, similar to a poncho, called a tallit katan (“little tallit”), so that they will have the opportunity to fulfill this important mitzvah all day long. The tallit katan is worn under the shirt, with the tzitzit hanging out so they can be seen. If you’ve ever seen a Jewish man with strings hanging out of his clothing, this is probably what you were seeing.

    There is no particular religious significance to the tallit (shawl) itself, other than the fact that it holds the tzitzit (fringes) on its corners. There are also very few religious requirements with regard to the design of the tallit. The tallit must be long enough to be worn over the shoulders (as a shawl), not just around the neck (as a scarf), to fulfill the requirement that the tzitzit be on a “garment.” Likewise, it should be draped over the shoulders like a shawl, not worn around the neck like a scarf, though that is commonly done (see illustration at right). A longer tallit is commonly folded over the shoulders, to prevent the tzitzit from dragging on the ground. The tallit may be made of any material, but must not be made of a combination of wool and linen, because that combination is forbidden on any clothing. (Lev. 19:19; Deut. 22:11).

    Most tallitot are white with navy or black stripes along the shorter ends, possibly in memory of the thread of techeilet. They also commonly have an artistic motif of some kind along the top long end (the outside of the part that goes against your neck). This motif is referred to as an atarah (crown). There is no particular religious significance to the atarah; it simply tells you which end is up! It is quite common, however, to write the words of the blessing for putting on the tallit on the atarah, so you can read the blessing while you are putting the tallit on.
    http://www.jewfaq.org/signs.htm

    (i’ve send you e-mail which have the pictures in also D)
    IF K v Rensburg is indeed wearing a “Jewish Rabbi scarf” – it might be the influence of the Israel teaching, and if he did not study to be a Rabbi, or was not inaugurated in a Jewish Temple by Jewish Rabbi(s), he is a self-proclaimed “Rabbi”, a fake. taking honor which does not belong to him.

    cecilia

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >> IF K v Rensburg is indeed wearing a “Jewish Rabbi scarf” – it might be the influence of the Israel teaching, and if he did not study to be a Rabbi, or was not inaugurated in a Jewish Temple by Jewish Rabbi(s), he is a self-proclaimed “Rabbi”, a fake. taking honor which does not belong to him.

    Well there’s no surprise.

    Self made prophet: $100
    Self made rabbi blankie: $300
    Self made church empire: $6,000,000
    On hands and knees eating grass and sand around William Branham’s grave in the USA: Priceless

  • cecilia

    i wish I could see that photo! I saw a VERY OLD portrait of Nebucadnessar behaving like an animal in daaaaayyyys back then (biblical OT days). I just HAVE to look for it man, and put the new face to it… then I can sit back and realize how low can a human being go..
    (hey I’m a poet and I did’nt know it!)
    cecilia

  • Andre

    Hi,ek het die artikel oor kobus en oom Anchus gelees.Ek ondersteun nie kobus se teologiese raamwerk nie,maar indien hy kanker het bid ek saam met hom en sy familie.Ek glo so n siekbed sal Kobus n besondere afspraak met die Here gee om sy lewe voor hom te stel, soos vir enige mens wat n siekbed moet deurmaak. Wat oom Anchus aanbetref wil ek vir die Here dankie se dat Hy in hierdie tyd in ons land iemand opgeroep het wat manne en selfs vroue en kinders bemoedig met die blye evangelie van Jesus Christus.Ek dink die skrywer skryf alreeds van n vooropgestelde idee met die gevolg dat daar slegs”fout” gesoek word. Indien die Here aan jou die volle waarheid openbaar het, waarom hou jy nie ook vir ons almal n saamtrek sodat ons in die”lig” soos jy kan wandel nie. Ek glo met my hele hart jy het al probeer, maar niemand wil volg nie, of hoe, kontak my dan help ek jou met jou lae selfbeeld :

    [Edited by AdMo: 17 Dec 09 – Sorry I removed your Cell phone number from public view, you don’t want weirdo’s contacting you.]

  • leonie

    kobus van rensburg was healed from cancer after he was given 3to 7 days to live by the medical profession so yes GOD is very much alive and well and no i’m not a member of the spirit word church but I do suggest everyone throwing with stones go and read what the scriptures say about recognising a false prophet or maybe we have different bibles perhaps???

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Leonie

    >> kobus van rensburg was healed from cancer after he was given 3to 7 days to live by the medical profession

    Where did you get this information from?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Leonie

    >> but I do suggest everyone throwing with stones go and read what the scriptures say about recognising a false prophet or maybe we have different bibles perhaps???

    Ok since you have a bible, please give me some scripture about recognising a false prophet? Let’s make like I have no clue what I am talking about and you now have to preach to me and using the Word of God convince me without a shadow of a doubt that Kobus is a true prophet from God.

    Is this not what you as a ‘christian’ are called to do? preach the gospel? So instead of just saying stuff, let’s do it. If you wanna tell me to judge not and stop throwing stones while you judge me and throw stones at least get some scripture to back up your claim.

  • leonie

    I really don’t want to get into arguments about the scriptures
    I would like to know though according to you who would be the preachers and evangelists that you would consider to be the true and righteous

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Leonie

    >> I really don’t want to get into arguments about the scriptures

    One does not argue about scripture Leonie. I asked you to show me Scripture to prove your statement. But you can’t. That’s ok.

    >> I would like to know though according to you who would be the preachers and evangelists that you would consider to be the true and righteous

    I have over 160 articles on this website. I do however strongly suggest you start with the bible. But you can go here: google for these let u sreason ministries, pawcreek ministries, Jacob Prasch Ministries (Moriel), John MacArthur, Berit Kjos ministries – to name a few.

    Now an answer to my FIRST question to you would be really appreciated. Where did you get your information from regarding Kobus being healed?

  • Pieter

    I have only been reading this site and its comments for about a month now and I just made one conclusion…..*drum roll*

    Christians no longer study the Word of God! It seems easier to talk to Atheist than to “fellow” Christians believing false doctrine and false prophets. And there is only one reason for that….

    A True Atheist knows the Word of God as good if not better than most Christians. Remember their “Gospel” is to disprove the Existence of a God and also use the Bible as a reference. And no not only snippets and verses they can take out of context, I mean the whole Word of God. Therefore in arguing with an Atheist you need to bring allot of logic into the argument – even though it is totally fruitless at best of times…

    Now what does the above mean? Well all I am trying to say is that the “Anti-Christ” who denies God and its Word, knows the Word of God better than most of us. And remember I am not referring to the unbelievers out there who just want to justify their sinful existence by playing the “there is no God card”. I am referring to true Atheist whose mission it is to convert religious people to their unbelief. (yep could be very confusing). But “Christians” (and by reading the comments out here it seems there is allot) would blindly follow men like Kobus van Rensburg, because he preaches and heals in “Christ’s” name? Just because he says so and do apparent healings he must be believed? Does a man preaching in Gods name (or in his case self imposed prophet) have more status than the Word of God? NO, NO, NO! And yet he is blindly followed and even more blindly supported! If God healed him of cancer then glory to God and God alone! And hopefully he was healed for a chance to repent and turn back his church to the true gospel of God.

    Please guys read your Bibles! In a heartbeat even an Atheist would turn you to Matthew 7:15, Matthew 24:11, Matthew 24:24, 1 John 4:1. (and I had to go look it up on Biblegateway!). Guys Like Kobus is turning our world back to Roman Catholics times where we no longer need to read Gods Word! We can just believe, because they are men of God. Don’t be deceived! Read and study your Bibles!

  • Pieter

    BTW

    On his facebook site – “Kobus Van Rensburg will live and not die!!!!!” – one read some very scary commentry by his followers….

    things like…

    “Kobus died many times but chose to come back to fulfill his work…” – since when does a man have the choise to die and come back…recall that happening to one Man about 2000 year ago…

    Its really scarry what people are taught and believe…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Pieter

    >> “Kobus died many times but chose to come back to fulfill his work…” – since when does a man have the choise to die and come back…

    HAHAHAHAHA *coughs and splatters*

    I tell you, the world has gone MAD.

    And still no one can give me an answer to my question. It’s a MYSTERY I tell ja.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Pieter

    >> A True Atheist knows the Word of God as good if not better than most Christians. Remember their “Gospel” is to disprove the Existence of a God and also use the Bible as a reference. And no not only snippets and verses they can take out of context, I mean the whole Word of God. Therefore in arguing with an Atheist you need to bring allot of logic into the argument – even though it is totally fruitless at best of times…

    I totally agree, arguing with an Atheist that has gone out of his way to read the bible and analyse every detail is very very difficult to speak too. And boy the first thing they bring up is ‘oh there are so many contradictions in the bible’. But the point is: They studied the bible – for the wrong reason yes but still did it. Puts Christians to shame. Ask for 1 verse and it’s like you have asked someone to draw blood from a stone – why, because they would not know where to start looking.

    Here is a story and a half. Based on me. When I was an unbeliever I once opened the bible and tried to read it and thought to myself that it was the most boring book ever, it made no sense, long, tedious, and just full of stories. I don’t think I managed to read 1 page.

    When I was truly born again. I went to a WoF church (not knowing there was even such a thing at the time). I actually believed that all those who said they were christian ACTUALLY WERE. Well I found out quickly that was far from the truth. Anyhow so I got to this church and the pastor gives a sermon on the ‘salt of the earth’ he throws in a few verses into the sermon from the bible and there he went preaching. I however was having the most difficult time understanding what on earth this guy was talking about because when I read the bible (I must admit it was the first time ever that day) I UNDERSTOOD IT, and to my shock what i understood the verses to mean was COMPLETELY different to what he was trying to tell the church. After the service was over I rushed home and googled for scripture on the Holy Spirit and there is was scripture after scripture after scripture that the Holy Spirit is the ONLY ONE who will interpret Scripture correctly. I jumped for joy, because I knew at the time when I was in the church that what I was reading and understanding was the TRUTH – no questions asked. I was more surprised that I could understand it- and after that the bible has become so easy to read.

    So going back to the Atheist. He reads the bible but will never understand it because he is not saved. And the wanna-be christian will never understand it either because they are not saved. And the pastor will also get it wrong because he went and studied at a university where all the professors are not saved either and they were taught the wrong thing. And then WORST of all, you have Kobus van Rensburg who has his own bible school and creates little monsters who go out and preach utter satanic teaching to people.

    What a disaster.

  • cecilia

    Leonie, “Where did you get your information from regarding Kobus being healed?”
    Your credibility is at stake, please just answer this easy question?!
    I Read this very interesting quote somewhere:
    “separating the genuine christians from the genuine counterfeits”.
    seems to be happening around us…
    cecilia

  • Golda Meyer

    Prophet Kobus van Rensburg is clean from cancer – but only during the beginning of December 2009. From the moment they diagnosed the cancer, they gave him a few days to live. He had leukemia for 9 months, but he is fully healed now. He just got a clean medical bill in December 2009. He is a living example that the Gospel is true and “works”. By the way, he never hid the fact that he had cancer – he always told the congregation and the rest of the world (via broadcasting) what was happening to him. He needed our prayers.

    Deborah, Kobus did not choose to die. He chose to live. Christians (those in Sonship) will always be persecuted. You preach the stuff he preaches and then see how satan comes for you – he will try and kill you, for he understands the threat of a Christian that has overcame diseases, illnesses and even death and then teaches this strategy to others. The scriptures are clear. Jesus will come only again when death is under our feet. Jesus conquered death for us on the Cross. And this is a revelation you need to get, Deborah. The gift (LIFE) has been given us, but we need to “open” the Gift and use it, so it may work for us. You clearly have no understanding of the incredible meaning of Jesus’ death on the Cross – His Sacrifice for us. If you want, send me your e-mail address, and I will forward a copy of one of the immoratality teachings that I have translated. You will be amazed.

    I have been present one night when Kobus truly slipped away – but he preaches immortality – truly the Truth if you will read his teachings and read the supportive scriptures yourself. Kobus came back to life many times in the past 9 months. Coming back means that he was dead. He just got up and preached again, weak of cancer. I witnessed this and my friend, a medical doctor witnessed this too. A miracle? Of course, but if he did not preach and believe in immortality (not just your soul, but your physical body) he would not have come back. Romans 2:7 says we must SEEK immortality. Seek it if you want it. He found it. If you apply the uncompromised Truth, it will work for you.

    I know him and his family well and attend most services- and have since then been awed by the Love of God, preached by a great Man of God like no other I have ever heard – and I have seeked the great men and women of God the world over.

    When will the world stop bickering and accept this great prophet as a Gift of God? Recognise the Christ in him.

    And yes, Deborah, we can never be God or Jesus, but God’s Plan for us Christians is to mature into Sons of God – do like, speak like Jesus did – godlike beings (John 10:34 / Ps 82:6). You want biblical proof? Send me your e-mail, and I will forward to you some of Kobus’ teachings on Sonship. Some of us start to walk in this already, due to Kobus’ teachings on the Truth. Ever put your hand on a deaf ear, pray and then the person can hear? I did it, in Jesus Name. Hey, even got someone to walk who could’nt and all kinds of other amazing stuff. It is an amazing thing when God’s love flow through you to another, for healing, restoration, whatever. This is the beginning of Sonship.

    Truly, Kobus preaches the Truth. How can anyone judge whether it is the Truth if you have not got a copy of his teachings and check out the Scriptures for yourself? Deborah has twisted the Truth that he preaches, so of course her version cannot be right, not even to herself. If you are not filled with the Holy Ghost, how can you recognise Truth? Every opinion will turn out cheap, because our natural man does not understand the spiritual. You want to reason things out so that your mind can understand it, but you must allow the Holy Spirit to put these things in your heart.

    Our God is merciful and I pray Deborah will come to the Truth. You only need to ask – and this Grace will be given you, by the Holy Spirit.

    By the way, in 2004, his church stopped counting – 11 000 cripples walked from 2000 – 2004 (documented), and this is not mentioning the cancers, blind, deaf and aids healed (and many more diseases). Hey, I witnessed these things, for more than 7 years now. I personnaly saw him one night calling back a dead man. Not even three minutes, and the man lived, and was restored back to health. My own son was severly handicapped – 5 years ago Kobus prayed for him – his body pulled straight in a few seconds – instantly healed. I am a mother and unless you have experienced a miracle healing like this, you probably find it difficult to belief what I write here, but our miracle is true. Kobus always give all the Glory to Jesus. Every teaching of his is wrapped around the Crucified Christ and of course, Resurrection Power.

    He is the most humble man of God, but if you preach trash, he will come down on your head like a ton of bricks! He is a true prophet – keeping the preaching of the Word of God pure in the Churches. Why? Because he loves the Church of Jesus – that is us, by the way. That is why his anointing is to teach preachers, so that they can go back to their own churches and preach the Truth, that sets us free. Free from what, oh, only diseases, poverty, death, calamities, terror, etc.

    All those who critisize – how many people did you heal?

    By the way, if you want the immortality teachings (I think he has preached at least 32 teachings on this), hook onto their website and order it. Seek it, if you wanna live – http://www.spiritword.org.za

    Ever found yourself that your mouth hangs open in awe? This happens everytime when Kobus preach. Get him on their 24-hrs channel – they are broadcasting to more than 330 million homes all over the world. Gosh, people even get healed by just touching the TV Screen! Farfetched? Check it out for yourself.

  • Golda Meyer

    All those who love to bicker against God’s Own, read this from Glenn Jackson’s daily “Exhortations”. It is Wisdom.

    December 31st 2009

    + Why is there so much “angst” in the midst of My people? Am I not faithful to finish the work that “I” have begun? Am I not a Faithful Creator? Am I not worthy to be trusted? Truly I say to you, blessed is the one who will continually lay down their soul-life [mind, will, emotions] to pick up their cross to follow Me in this most glorious hour.

    “angst” – a feeling of anxiety or apprehension [fear] often accompanied by depression;

    ….”Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right”….. 1 Peter 4:19 NASB

    ….”And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound and complete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah). Faithful is He Who is calling you [to Himself] and utterly trustworthy, and He will also do it [fulfill His call by hallowing and keeping you]”…. 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 The Amplified Translation

    ….”Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it”…. Matthew 16:24-25 NASB

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Golda Meyer

    I am speechless right now…actually no I am not, I would like to know: Who is his doctor?

    How can we confirm this ‘miracle’. Surely Kobus would love to show the world how great God is by supplying the most wonderful proof of his diagnosis and then being healed and now having a clean bill of health. Can you image the impact that would have? A ‘great’ pastor, gets cancer, not just any cancer but Leukaemia and then is healed 9 months later.

    In fact it would be FANNNNNTASTIC if he could provide this info. Please pass along this message to Kobus. If what has happened to him is true I am sure he can’t wait to tell the world the wonderful news.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Golda Meyer

    As for “Exhortations”. How about this one…

    When you are sick and you take more than a few days leave from work, you are required to bring a doctor’s certificate to show the company you work for that you were really sick and not pulling a fast one. It is therefore earnestly advised that Kobus show those who pay his salary a doctor’s certificate proving that he was indeed very ill and has miraculously recovered and is fit to return to work.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Golda Meyer

    In fact if you want you can send proof of your son’s miracle as well. The more the better. And the man raised from the dead – THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE. Would love the proof.

    Ok I understand that the man who was risen from the dead might be difficult to get hold of. But you are reading this blog so you know the story, you know now what is required to blast Kobus into the Guinness books of world records (if not that, then at least maybe a show on Ripley’s) so get all your sons documents and the photo’s and medical reports, etc, etc, etc, compile a nice folder and then when you are ready to post it, let me know.

  • Michael Anthony

    Genesis 3:4

    And the serpent said unto the woman, ‘Ye shall not surely die’

    The more things change the more they stay the same.

    <<< Quote 'Ever found yourself that your mouth hangs open in awe?' <<<

    Golda M

    Yep, I just did, but not because of awe but because of the utter lunacy that you believe. I guess if the disciples had gotten a hold of the immortality teaching they would all still be alive today, right? Let's get this straight; the persecuted church in China and the most persecuted church on earth – North Korea. Let's leave out beheaded christians in muslims nations for now…so, if they get a hold of this immortality stuff they can escape re-education camps, torture, being martyred for Christ etc? Wow, go tell the world…

    Just prepare yourself for this; you say you dressed in this godlike garment others may just see your nakedness.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    >> ‘Ever found yourself that your mouth hangs open in awe?

    I must say I had a similar experience too and for the same reason you mentioned.

  • Andre (LHM)

    It is strange how people can be fascinated by the devils work (sickness, death, poverty, etc.). They can accept when people die of cancer or aids, when people get robbed, when people go to sleep at night – hungry, when people looses their possessions because of the world wide depression – because for them, this is the way of life, BUT when we see the wonderful miracle working wonder of God – hey, hiers a slang in die gras, this can’t be, this must be a scam, someone is trying to make money again. Please people – give GOD THE GLORY – if a man is healed – PRAISE GOD. I got so inspired by the teachings of Kobus van Rensburg that we started our own ministry in Despatch. Thanks Kobus. GOD BLESS YOU.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Andre

    Why is asking a question like this such a problem? And if you know him so well then HEY you are now another person who can ask Kobus for the PROOF.

    Everyone comes on here and gives comments but when asked for proof they run away.

  • Michael Anthony

    Andre,

    Er, dude, that’s nice – prosperity, always healed, live forever, little god thing going there.

    Problem 1: That is no different from the promises made in most cults. The Gospel of Jesus Christ makes no such guarantees. In fact the mark of a cult is always some form of godhood or entitlement. Not a wicked, sinful, wretch in need of salvation.

    Problem 2: That is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel is salvation through faith in Jesus Christ and the repentance of SINS. Jesus Christ was punished for our SINS, wittingly or unwittingly (I dunno) you disgrace that name and that sacrifice as if he paid the price for your earthly pleasures, self interests and to buy you godhood (have all you dominionists ripped Genesis 3 out you bibles?) Yes, God can heal and yes, he can prosper whoever he wills and yes, he delivers us from evil. But this is a different jesus, a different gospel and a different spirit.

    You carry on selling jesus and we will carry on proclaiming salvation and calling all men to repentance and the forgiveness of sins through Christ’s sufficient work. Suffering, sickness and disease is the consequence of the fall of man but HIS Grace is sufficient for us. We do not draw men because of miracles, it is the mercy and goodness of God that brings men to understand their sinful condition and their need for repentance. That only comes from preaching the truth.

    Now, go on and preach to your congregation with your cutsy anecdotes but remember one little thing…I preached from the same pulpits once upon a time and I also preached the same heresy. Boy, can I tell you some stories…
    May God have mercy on us all because we are all accountable to Jesus Christ our Lord for how we represent him and how responsibly we teach his word.

    Hebrews 11 is the hall of faith, the crescendo is at the end of the chapter, those that suffered and were martyred for the Gospel’s sake (from verse 35), NEVER having seen the promise yet believing. Explain please….

    You guys ignore the real miracle and God’s greatest work in search of the spectacular. I taught what you teach; it breeds elitism, an entitlement mentality and ultimately – arrogance & pride. You guys may ascend to heaven and want to bring heaven to earth with your artificial godhood but the consequence is the same as it ever was – a mighty thud after the fall.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    That was a great comment, thank you!

  • Michael Anthony

    These guys probably think we don’t understand…

    I know exactly what it’s like; the incredible euphoria and the rush you get when you ‘realise’ how ‘special’ you are and the feeling of elitism when ‘god’ reveals all these incredible mysteries. I know what it’s like in those meetings, you become so puffed up that you actually feel sorry for those ‘religious’ people in those ‘dead’ traditional churches. You have this incredible drive and energy, you feel you are called out to be a special army… I was called out and had the ‘prophetic’ anointing. People stand gaping at your words? I know what it’s like. Boy, it all feeds the flesh.

    I was aggressive; all you have to do is call it ‘spiritual aggression’ against the enemy. Deliverances and the like? Boy, I felt like I had the power over the elements if that’s what it took.

    When you forsake the bible and become dependant on the latest revelation from the leaders of these movements (propehts abd apostles) – and hang onto every word with wow! And every revelation is like a rush…

    You have fallen into a cleverly crafted delusion.

    Here is my challenge to you. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God Almighty and Pray a simple prayer; ‘Lord, please show me where I am in error. If I have been deceived please open my eyes…’

    What have you got to lose??? Nothing! And I cannot be the enemy or trying to deceive you if I am pointing you to the throne of God – and to go there with humility and sincerity.

    If you try to take on the enemy in your own strength and rely on your own intellect, you will lose. If you do not read your bible properly and read the whole counsel of God, you will be deceived. If you don’t know the enemy’s tactics, you will lose.

  • cecilia

    one of my friends used to say: monkey see, monkey do…

    it amazes me that people learn from people; people transfer to people etc. yet none questions these actions ever?! when a new “ministry / movement” starts, no one ask the question: did this person received it from GOD, or was it transferred to him by another …

    yes Michael A, I was there too. when I served my former fake master and after I found THE ONLY MASTER, the LORD Jesus Christ. and in both instances it was “transferred, placed upon me, being mantled over to me…”. yet, after many many years, I took up my Bible, discard of ALL other religious books which tell you the how to… and within the pages of the Bible, the True Word of God, I discovered the truth…

    yes, I laid it all down… I humbled myself… acknowledged HE is God and HE alone…

    I still pray for people for whatever they ask prayer for… yes, our prayers are answered; yes,people receive their healing… but never in front of my eyes… and no, I don’t keep count…

    but often I find myself repeatedly ask the people I advice, this question: did you go and read the scripture I told you to? MANY say ‘no’. people forgot how to find everything in the Word of God! and we’ve got so many “teachers of the new way”, that it blots out the reason for a person to search the scriptures themselves…

    Jesus told His disciples to preach the Gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead etc. Yes, truly so.. but He did not say go build yourself a little kingdom and have sub-ordinates who serve you and this kingdom… (and in this case even incorporate UN-BIBLICAL (new age) methods and messages…

    on the non-christian websites it is an open fact for all to read that the ascended masters are jubilant for the fact that so many follow their ways… so many blind hearing and adhering to, what they say..

    According to the Bible MANY illnesses are placed on people by God Himself, for a specific reason… and now we have the audacity to step into this plan and order God to change His mind… that’s the best way I can describe my thoughts on this…

    I still believe that only God knows where the dash (-) in every life is drawn, because He is God who gives live and He takes it away… when we step in between the brackets ( ) and try to alter the dash, – , that’s when we put ourselves in the position of being god.
    I rest my case.
    oh D, my jaw also dropped a wee bit, but mostly because I could hear my old way of reasoning while I was still in that movement …
    cecilia

  • Michelle

    I find it shocking and sad at the same time that so many ‘Christians’ out there still believe that we’re so ‘special’ and unique and all that goes with that. It seems like we’re back in Corinth where human wisdom was in great repute as the apostles observed in 1 Cor 1 v 22

    A warning should go out to those concerned, how God by the gospel destroyed, and brought to naught, their wisdom.

    “That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom , and righteousness, and sanctrification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, ‘He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.'” 1 Cor 1:29 – 31
    No man should glory in himself, but alone in God, for (too quote Jonathan Edwards) all the good that man has, is in and through Christ. It is in and through Him that we have righteousness, sanctification and redemption. Secondly, it is God that has given us Christ, that we might have these benefits through him; he of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, etc. And thrirdly, it is God that gives us faith whereby we close with Christ.

    We are dependent on Christ, as He is our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. We are dependent on the Father, who has given us Christ. We are dependent on the Holy Ghost, for it is of Him that we are in Christ Jesus. it is the Spirit that gives faith in Him, whereby we receive him and close with Him. We are useless and worthless if it was not for the Father.

    In other words, we are to exalt God ALONE; as by trust and reliance, so by praise. Let us give God all the glory; who alone makes us to differ from the worst of men in this world.

    Let not our hope lift us up, but dispose us the more to abase ourselves, to reflect on our own exceeding unworthiness and and to exalt God alone.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michelle

    Agree totally.

    [Edited: Sorry, got you confused with other ‘Michele’]

  • cecilia

    Read on

    “Remember, if you lay in the sewer long enough, you won’t notice the smell. Get out now.”
    good advice!
    c

  • Michellé

    Deborah,

    wrong Michellé. Saw your comment to her, but it wasn’t me. Will have to change my name so that there isn’t another confusion like this again. :-)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ooooopsssssss. Sorry. These things do happen lol :)

  • Golda Meyer

    Deborah and Michael

    You clearly have not SEEN with your OWN EYES the miracles of God. Read Ps 91 – the PLACE called THERE, that many true prophets write about. The first verse in Ps 91 even starts with “THERE” (AMP and KJV). So check the Word – there are many places the Word talk about the place called “THERE”. This is the place where I know Kobus are in God. If not, he would not be able to the exploits for God that he does. This is where true KINGDOM LIFE in Christ begins….!

    I dare you, check it out. Look up the word “THERE” in the concordances and then read the verses before and after the word “THERE” in the Scriptures. It is a place in God. And it all is “summarised” in Ps 91. But please, check it out for yourself. The Place called “there” is where we are safe – no calamity, and in full rest in God – that means we have TOTAL PEACE (trust) in God that He will fulfill every Covenant Promise to us. Kobus told us in the beginning of his illness, that God will fulfill His Promise to him, and alhtough very sick at the time, he will be healed as he have Peace with God. You see, Kobus knows how to ACCESS God’s Grace through Faith. Hey, I am living this! Only starting, I admit, but I am living in it. It is a place in God where you meet with Him – Face to Face, like Moses did. It means be in personal conversation, a TWO-WAY conversation with God daily. Where you HEAR Him, you HEAR the Great Creator Himself speaking to you, in Love – some hear Him physically, other in their minds. Come on people, that is what God wants for us – PEACE. What a cruel Father He would be if he birth us in Christ, just so that we may have a life full of illnesses and poverty and trouble and ultimate death? Have you seen people dying? It is horrible! Yes, His Grace is enough for us in troubled times, Michael, but He clearly states that we must ACCESS His Grace THROUGH Faith (Rom 5:2). If you don’t do that, you will stay in your trouble. Yes, trouble will come, but this is how we are victorious: We speak the TRUTH over the FACT (For e.g. in case of cancer, or whatever, we speak the Word over the situation – and as we speak, it will be – Prov 18:21). This is how we access His Grace. You gotta “open” the Gift of Grace. A Gift (Faith, Grace, Love, etc) ONLY works for you if you ACCESS (use) it – OPEN it like a real gift. Why, because Faith is dead without works( Believing and Trusting God) Don’t you see? Everything we say or do, is a choice between Life and Death. Over ourselves and others.

    (Prov 18:21)The tongue has the power of life and death,
    and those who love it will eat its fruit.

    “The key to one receiving the “fullness” of My promises [Covenant blessings] [Psalm 25:12-14] is to continually “speak” Truth [a revelation of My Word] over “fact” [that which is seen and discerned according to the physical circumstances] [Matthew 12:34b].- Glenn Jackson (Fire by Night on 3 Jan 2010)

    Deborah and Michael and others – I would be very careful of speaking nonsense over Kobus if I were you. What you sow, you will reap.

    Jesus brought us ABUNDANT LIFE. Look it up in the Greek and Hebrew original translations. LIFE means: PEACE, lack of nothing, not life, not poverty, not health, not wealth. Why do you THINK Jesus told his diciples to HEAL the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel? To KEEP them from DYING! Why do we heal the sick and raise the dead, just so that they can die later? Our God is not that cruel. He truly meant for us to live. This is true KINGDOM LIFE. Very few of us has accessed this. We are just Christians. Saved through Grace from sin. This means we are only BABY Christians, not matured Christians. Kingdom Life is much higher than just a saved Life in Christ.

    Neither of you (Michael and Deborah) have seen a REAL MIRACLE or experienced one in yourself. I myself was in an accident. After a failed neck fusion operation and in great pain, I went to Kobus for prayer. I was instantly healed. I still have all the rods in my neck and my doctor cannot understand how I can have free movement of my neck with all this steel stuff in my neck. Steel is not supposed to bend! I can turn my neck freely without pain. I can give you an X-Ray with all the stuff in my neck, but what will it proof? The steel in my neck is still there. You must come SEE me turn my neck freely and that without PAIN. Was I critical and did I believe not in the begining? Yes, of course, like all of you, until I was instantly healed. Until I experienced these amazing miracles myself. This fear (accusation and critical mind and spirit) was replaced by Faith and Love through witnessing the miracles for myself. You want to see my son’s healing of 5 years ago? Come SEE for yourself. You will find fault with the proof until you have SEEN yourself.

    Micheal, read Romans 8:2. If Jesus then made us FREE from sin AND DEATH, why do people die? It is because you do not have a revelation of the Cross, that you cannot understand immortality. If you do not take the revelation and believe it, it will NOT work for you. Once the Truth is revealed and you take it (believe it), it will work for you, by Grace.

    Kobus does not need to protect himself against Pharisees like yourself. You are not holy enough to judge him or anyone else. We are all fallible, even the men and women of God – even Michael, myself and Deborah. That is why we need to forgive, and yes, rebuke in LOVE, not in jugding each other the way you do. I do not discern any love rebuke anywhere Deborah, judger of the Anointed. Do the men of women of God fail? Oh yes, they do, but so do we. How do we know they did not repent? Were you there when that particular person repented to God? We cannot judge! I only see that you and other spit judgement – you speak with a split tongue – like a snake – the apparent Love of Christ and judgement at the same time. If you truly love Christ, you will not judge the Anointed. We are all on the same side – the side of Jesus, but you see, a house divided upon itself cannot stand. We should be united in faith, not in judgement.

    Kobus has already told the world (at least 330 million homes) through his broadcasting exactly what happened to his health, his healing and his fight for his life, IN CHRIST. And the clean bill of health was SHOWN on television – to everyone watching ALL OVER THE WORLD. His doctors also witnessed live on the Broadcasting Channel on some occasions. You have missed it. You can go yourself and get those documented DVD’s. Speak to the doctors yourself. I will not get it for you. Order it, whatever. It is now your problem. You want the documented healings and proof thereof? Go get it yourself. You will NOT believe unless you SEE it yourself, anyway. I will no longer be involved in the work of satan: that is judging Christians, like your website. Everytime you accuse a Christian the way you do, you stand as the devil himself – the Accuser. Our fight is not against flesh, but the prinicpalities of the air – evil spirits, guided by satan’s evil plots. Dont you see, Deborah, you do the devil’s work for him.

    I DARE all of you unbelievers: get on a plane and visit his church – IF you want to SEE how wonderful our God REALLY is. For the past seven years, I take sick people to Kobus’s church (and other pastors who were taught by him) at least two or three times a month, and the healings are wonderful. I thought I would get used to it by now, but these amazing acts of God’s Love causes one to cry like a baby – thankful that a brother or sister, DESPITE THEIR SHORT FALLINGS IN OUR EYES, are healed. There are many who were NOT healed instantly, but their healings happened over time. How do I know that? They were personal friends of mine. Why God heal some immediately and not others? I don’t know. Why don’t you ask God Himself? It is His Grace, not mine or Kobus’.

    This is the last writing I will write on this website that think they can discern and judge the men and women of God by spewing venom. We are all fallible. Those that failed you – how do you know they did not repent? Do not touch the anointed of God. Kobus will never protect himself against anyone of you or try and clear his name – he does not need to. For every mistake he has ever done, he has publicly over the broadcasting channel apologised and repented to the Church of God. That is true humbleness. Did you repent for the mistakes you made anywhere on your website, Deborah? Kobus knows God will vengeance him if that is necessary. The way I know him, if he knows what you are writing about him, would be only this:

    He will ask God to forgive you all, for you know not what you are doing….! THIS IS LOVE SPEAKING!

    He will NEVER try and write to you to clear his name, which by the way, does not need any clearance. It is absolute ignorance on your side that makes you write and “discern’ the things you think you discern. Your motivations are unrightoues. If your motivations were truly rightoues, you would have acted in Love. And Love never accuses.

    Come on Deborah and Michael, you KNOW you will spit venom until you have SEEN for yourself. Tune into his Channel, you can watch over the Internet or via tuning into his channel. Don’t you agree that seeing is believing? Come on, I DARE you. I advise to especially tune in on the last Saturday night of each month, for the special Anointing service. By the way, by God’s Grace he heales many every day, but on the last Saturday of each month, thousand travels to South Africa from all over the world.

    If the doctors cannot help you anymore, and many pastors has prayed for you WITHOUT Power (without result) what will you do?

    I will seek out a humble man of God, called Kobus van Rensburg and others like him who has truly learned to love, who do not just preach, put preach WITH POWER. By the way, he is not the only one – he taught many other pastors in South Africa and as far as Korea and USA, and because they follow the Truth Revealed by his teachings, they do the healings too. Gosh, even simple, normal Christians like myself can do the healings, not nearly as spectacular and amazing like Kobus, but I am beginning with it and loving it. It truly brings me PEACE like nothing else – to really SAVE someone from DEATH is amazing…! Kobus does not want to keep this to himself. He is anointed to bring maturity to the Sons of God, by Grace through the Holy Spirit.

    Deborah, Micheal, and all of you other unbelievers, come SEE for yourself what your God can do, and stop persecuting the man of God. Kobus is simply a pipe line for His Love.

    If anyone of you would like to travel to South Africa to SEE, I invite you into my home, where you can stay free to SEE these miracles for what they are: God’s Love for us. However, if you come to my house with acusing my brothers and sisters in Christ, I will not receive you. So Deborah, my invitation is especially extended to you personally.

    I include my e-mail address – this is an earnest invitation: [Edited: email address removed]

    I do have one last request though: If anyone of you, who have NEVER sinned, or NEVER made a mistake in your life, or has NEVER done anyone else wrong – only then do you have the right to pick up a stone and through it to those you accuse. But before you do, remember the story of Jesus and the accused lady? John 8:6 – 7. Read it and see if you can ever again accuse anyone, according to Jesus Christ.

    May God teach you to really love in 2010, to love like He loves.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    *zzz ZZZ zzz ZZZ zzz*

    Proof of healings please, your son, and also documents that Kobus had cancer in the first place. I think I have mentioned this a few times now. Thanks

  • Michael Anthony

    Golda Meyer,

    Can you be a sweetie and just answer me some simple, straightforward questions. Christian ABC stuff. I know that you don’t have a problem with typing your explanations.

    So here it is; could you please explain to us what is the Gospel? Could you also please explain to us who is Jesus Christ and what exactly is salvation? Could you also define what you mean by being Holy? Could you also define what is a ‘miracle’?

    Many thanks.

    From your favourite Pharisee.

  • Amanda

    Golda

    In love. You do not have to answer to me. Just answer this to yourself. You said:

    What a cruel Father He would be if he birth us in Christ, just so that we may have a life full of illnesses and poverty and trouble and ultimate death?

    Yet, the Bible says, Paul speaking:

    Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. (2 Corinthians 11:24-28)

    Paul died, Golda. Either you are right or the Bible is. You cannot both be right. Do you want to retract your statement about God being a cruel Father if He lets people die?

    Kobus does not need to protect himself against Pharisees like yourself.

    You have just played the Pharisee card. Please defend your statement and tell us why you call us Pharisees or retract it.

    I only see that you and other spit judgement – you speak with a split tongue – like a snake – the apparent Love of Christ and judgement at the same time. If you truly love Christ, you will not judge the Anointed. We are all on the same side – the side of Jesus, but you see, a house divided upon itself cannot stand. We should be united in faith, not in judgement.

    anyway. I will no longer be involved in the work of satan: that is judging Christians, like your website. Everytime you accuse a Christian the way you do, you stand as the devil himself – the Accuser. Our fight is not against flesh, but the prinicpalities of the air – evil spirits, guided by satan’s evil plots. Dont you see, Deborah, you do the devil’s work for him.

    Your motivations are unrightoues. If your motivations were truly rightoues, you would have acted in Love.

    Okay.

    I do have one last request though: If anyone of you, who have NEVER sinned, or NEVER made a mistake in your life, or has NEVER done anyone else wrong – only then do you have the right to pick up a stone and through it to those you accuse.

    Golda, it seems to me that you have made accusations here. Are you saying that you are qualified, according to your own standard above, to throw those stones at Deborah? You don’t have to answer me. I just want to point out to you how you contradict yourself and why I cannot take any of your interpretations of the Bible seriously. I can see that you are excited about living forever, but I just do not think that all the dead in Christ are bitter about the fact that the Father allowed them to die.

  • Michael Anthony

    Golda,

    While you are typing up those explanations to us deluded Pharisees let me give you a hint – don’t use self-imploding reasoning and self-refuting arguments. Also don’t presume you are debating biblically illiterate Christians. Let me give you an example of what NOT to do in you response.

    If Jesus then made us FREE from sin AND DEATH, why do people die? It is because you do not have a revelation of the Cross

    Every Christian from the time of the Apostles understood this to mean a SPIRITUAL death. That includes the writer of this verse. That includes every Christian that has ever lived, except Kobus and some dominionist sects, and of course..you. Can I prove it you? Yes, of all the Apostles that ever lived; none of them are alive today. If the Holy Spirit is the author of the book surely he would have revealed this to at least 1 Christian amongst millions that he could live on the planet for 2000 years. Man, how did we all miss it?

    You see, if you are going to use reasoning like that, actually this is not reasoning – it is total absurdity – then you are not really going to gain much ground.

    And please don’t tell me that this verse is only for that generation that will not see death etc etc. There is nothing at all of that in the context of this verse. Do you guys actually read scriptures in context? Please read the whole of Romans 8, in context. Read it twice.

    Just a hint.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    >> Can I prove it you? Yes, of all the Apostles that ever lived; none of them are alive today.

    LOL

  • cecilia

    >>>> “Why do you THINK Jesus told his diciples to HEAL the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel? To KEEP them from DYING!”

    ouch!!!!! sorry?!! come again!!!!?? God who said because of sin man will now “die” / “return to the ground whence thou came from”? so now God is turning against His own word?
    So what you’re gonna do when one of these “precious leaders” of your’s die like in die, dead, capput, over and done, ash to ash, clay to clay…
    gonna blame God? make Him out as a murderer?
    it is obvious you DO NOT KNOW that many places in the Bible it is open for all to see that GOD PUTS SICKNESS and disease etc. on people, or ‘allowed’ by God…. see eg.:
    Deuteronomy 28:61; 2 Samuel 12:15; Psalm 41:3; Micah 6:13; 1 Corinthians 11:30; and so on. (I’m NOT stating that there are no healing Scriptures!!)

    an interesting Scripture is: Matthew 25:36
    Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    IT DOESN’t say: I was sick and ye did not heal me….!!

    >>> “Hey, I am living this!”
    When the security of your spiritual surroundings fall away and you stand alone; will you be able to abide to the Word of God only without practicing what human’s taught you or what were being imparted to you by the touch of someone else? Yes / No ?

    >>> “What a cruel Father He would be if he birth us in Christ, just so that we may have a life full of illnesses and poverty and trouble and ultimate death?”
    hallo, ok now, stop the boat!!! you say you just started in this “new way” and you actually already learned to blame God?! whaau girl, quickly, go stand in front of the mirror and rub your eyes while you say: I’ve been mislead!

    >>> “Why do you THINK Jesus told his diciples to HEAL the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel? To KEEP them from DYING! ”

    John 11:4
    When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
    let’s repeat this:
    THAT THE SON OF GOD MIGHT BE GLORIFIED THEREBY!!!
    there is NOTHING here about “to keep them from dying”!

    Let me just state there: just because we discern the wrong teachings and practices, does not mean we totally do not believe in miracles (which include healing)! the misleading comes when it becomes a business, when it includes New Age methods and objects, when “impartation” is the in-word, when God is standing on the outside, and a different god is “in control”.

    WHAT YOU DID NOT READ UP TO NOW (it seems to me), is that WE’ve BEEN THERE! Yes, I was in more than one of Kobus’s meetings (hear my words – his meetings!) I won’t go again. He “skipped over me” on two different occasions because I didn’t want him to touch me when he pray for me, and one other time when I didn’t want to tell him what was wrong, to see if “God” will “reveal” it to him..
    obviously he “didn’t had the time to play this game”…
    so he skipped me…
    Your card-house are going to fall flat down when God takes Kobus away from this earth! Why, oh why do you put your trust in man…..? where, oh where is the God who is your healer? – in someone else’s hand(s)?

    >> “Neither of you (Michael and Deborah) have seen a REAL MIRACLE or experienced one in yourself. ”
    sigh….! you speak and think too highly of yourself…
    so you know them personally? what a wonderful blessing! I which I could be that close to them… for even on this long distance, they’ve probed me to find the truth in the Word of God and it has changed many aspects of my life>.. but then, you… me… naaahhh, different people…

    >>> “It is now your problem.”
    naahh! Deborah’s got tiny problems, this is definitely NOT one of them!

    >>> “Everytime you accuse a Christian the way you do, you stand as the devil himself – the Accuser.”
    coming from someone who has just previously said something about the tongue….. so you’ve learned how to speak death also… in such a short time…?

    >>> “The way I know him, if he knows what you are writing about him, would be only this:”
    ahhh, a spokesperson! so did Kobus gave you permission to speak for him?
    Come on woman! why couldn’t you speak for yourself? if sounded to me like something that happened in the Garden of Eden>..

    >>> “Did you repent for the mistakes you made anywhere on your website, Deborah?”
    Again, it seems you think you know all these commentors personally and very well! it is obvious that you only read what you choose, thereby missing quite a few places where DTW acknowledge mistakes…
    your tongue (on paper) is causing you to stumble..

    >>> “POWER”
    ahhh, here we have the answer. so easy it was! it’s all about ‘power’. what power? now in answering this, therein lies the truth!

    >>> “If anyone of you would like to travel to South Africa to SEE, I invite you into my home, where you can stay free to SEE these miracles for what they are: God’s Love for us. However, if you come to my house with acusing my brothers and sisters in Christ, I will not receive you. So Deborah, my invitation is especially extended to you personally.”
    you double-talker! in your whole comment you just made Deborah out as from the devil himself and all other negative remarks going along with it! and now you invite her to come to your house, yet in the same breath you say you will not let such a person come into your house?! what do you want? what do you now want?
    Oh, I forgot, you won’t write one more ‘writing’ on the blog!

    it’s pathetic how such cursing can come together with words of “blessing” out of one person’s mind/mouth! According to the writer Kobus actually do not need someone to defend him, protect him, speak for him. yet this is what this writer did, to hide her own inability to humble herself under the mighty hand of God, to understand the Word of God for herself.

    Debs, so you’re moving up hey girl? first it was invites for coffee… now you can fly and have free boarding ….

    I say again, we’re NOT denying miracles and healings! kapish?
    cecilis

  • Golda Meyer

    Deborah, Kobus does not want to be in the Guiness book of Records as you put it (it is your words, not his)- it would be self-glory. His purpose is to be obedient to God, not to you.

    Deborah, proof? Let me tell you, I had a neck fusion operation that failed and was in great pain. When the doctors suggested another op, I refused and went to Kobus for healing. I was instantly healed. When I send these X-rays to you, they will look exactly like a failed op – no difference on the X-rays, but the miracle is that I have full and free movement of my neck. How can I proof that to you? Come SEE for yourself. Do you agree that seeing is believing? Then SEE – that means you have to get on an airplane and visit his church, OR follow him on the Internet, or tune into his Channel. I advise you to especially follow the last Saturday of the month’s meetings. Healing is not all that happens here. There are many more miracles than just healing. But you need to SEE, for no one in his right mind will try and satisfy your critical spirit – you want to REASON things out – that is the natural man who will always be opposed to the spiritual man. Reason and the natural mind cannot understand these things. But being The Accusar here (you), well I hope people can see what sort of spirit speaks through you. I do not accuse you, Deborah, only that spirit that you allow to control you. Our fight is not against flesh and blood, but principalities in the air – evil spirits. That means you have a split tongue like a snake – try and speak the Love of Christ and judging Christians from the same mouth. I hope people can see the resemblance of an Accusar here…. Read Prov 18:21 and see that you speak Death, not Life. Be careful, you will only reap what you have sown. You are not really persecuting Kobus, you are persecuting Jesus Himself by judging Christians. Let’s rather be obedient to the Word:

    “Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. ”

    Michelle – Kobus van Rensburg glories only in God. He never glories in himself. If he did glory in himself, he would have been on this site trying to fight Deborah to clear his good name that she tries to kill, which he does not need to. He will never try and fight her for he knows that God alone will vengeance him, if necessary. If anything, he will just ask God to forgive Deborah, for she does not know what she is doing. None of you are holy enough to judge any Christian. We are suppose to stand in unity in faith, not in judgement against each other, for a house divided upon itself cannot stand. And then rebuke in Love, not in judgement! As long as you spit venom against each other, what does that make you – an ACCUSAR, which is the devil himself.

    Cecilia – Kobus is not puffed up – he is the most humble servant of God. We know everything is from Christ. We as Christians do not place ourselves above any one else. We are more fallible than anyone of the unbelievers. That is why we need God so desperately in our lives. You know why Kobus is doing such amazing miracles? Because he is in the place called “THERE”. Read Ps 91. Then I DARE you, go to the concordances and look up the word “THERE”. Read the verses before and after the verses that you find with “THERE” in the Scriptures. It is an eye-opener! It is a place in God, where you meet Him face-to-face – where you hear the Voice of God audibly for some, and for some in their minds. Where God has a two-way conversation with you. Where you can clearly HEAR the Great Creator speaking personally to you and whisper words of love to you personally. It is a place in God where you are “caught up” in Him. No, not anywhere else in the universe somewhere, but whilst your two feet are still on earth, but your mind and spirit is “IN HIM”. In a place in the Spirit (through visions or dreams), where you can truly SEE the spiritual, where God meet with you PERSONALLY and you SEE Him as He is. No man can see God, according to the Scriptures. That is right. No NATURAL man can see God, but the SPIRITUAL man (true sons of God) can. This is the beginnig of Kingdom Life. If you are THERE (Read Ps 91 again), you are in a very close relationship with God. This is where Kobus is and many of us are. And God’s Love flow through you unhindered. The Scriptures are clear on this: Without Him we are nothing. We are not puffed up about the miracles or anything else – it is all Grace from God and nothing is from ourselves. We simply abide in Him. (Again, read the first verse in Ps 91 and you should understand what “abides” mean).Kobus is simply a sort of pipe line for the Love of God (His Power) to flow through – unhindered.

    Michael Anthony: to answer you on your comment:

    “Hebrews 11 is the hall of faith, the crescendo is at the end of the chapter, those that suffered and were martyred for the Gospel’s sake (from verse 35), NEVER having seen the promise yet believing. Explain please…. ”

    Here is your answer: Why did Paul die, and why did Peter die? Because Paul explained that later on. He said we know that this stuff is written not for our time and age, but for the people on whom the end of the ages will come. What is the end? Simply the fulfilled Promises of God. What is part of the fulfilled Promises of God (Heb 11:39)? Immortality. To understand this, you gotta read the rest of my explanation. But let us back paddle a little so this can be better explained:

    The Scriptures said the following about the martyrs:
    Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
    Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
    Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    What is this better thing that God talks about and who are the “they” this scriptures refer to? Why did Paul and Peter died whilst the Bible stated that:

    “Heb 2:14 Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature], that by [going through] death He might bring to NOUGHT and make of NO EFFECT him who had the power of death–that is, the devil–
    Heb 2:15 And also that He might deliver and completely SET FREE all those who through the [haunting] fear of DEATH were held in bondage throughout the whole course of their lives.”

    Did you know that Paul was stoned to DEATH? And KILLED by the Lions at Ephesus? Read the history of those times and you will see that no Christian left the amphiteatres alive. There were NO MERCY. They were either burned or bitten or beaten to DEATH. When they use to stone any person, after the stoning process, they dropped a very large stone on the poor soul’s head to make sure he /she was “very dead”. Their heads were flattened. Paul just got up and kept on preaching. How was this possible? How could Paul got up again and again?

    Paul said: “1Co 15:32 KJV What do I gain if, merely from the human point of view, I fought with [wild] beasts at Ephesus? (in other words, the amphitheatre at Ephesus, where people was sacrificed to lions) If the dead are not raised [at all], let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we will be dead.(5)”

    To explain in simple terms: Paul says, if we are suppose to die one day, why did I fought the lions when they have thrown me in the amphitheatre at Ephesus? Why didn’t I just die? Why did I fight for my life, when they threw me three nights in the open sea? The night in Lystra they stoned me, threw me outside the city walls, and dropped a big stone on my head. I just stood up and walked on. Because I am not here to die, I am here to live! Paul reasoned: he said, if it is true that we must die, why don’t we just die? Why go through all this struggle, just to die?

    So yes, why did Paul died EVENTUALLY? After he came back time and again?
    The “they” that Paul talk about in vs 40, are a future generation: a generation that will “take” (believe and live) the Promises of God: Kingdom Life, Immortality, Grace through Faith – every Promise that God made to the heirs of Abraham. That covenant still stand. The Law of Moses does not stand anymore, for Jesus fulfilled the Law when He came. Paul says: “2Co 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.” He knew that continious immortality, although he lived it for short while, was not for his generation, but a future generation. This will be explain further down in this writing.

    First read this in answering your question:

    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on IMMORTALITY.
    1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    When does a trumpet (1 Cor 15:52) sound in biblical terms? When a revelation is given. The revelation about immortality is given in these Scriptures and in many others, IF we will take it. But what is the LAST TRUMPET according to 1 Cor 15:52?

    “2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished DEATH, and hath brought life and IMMORTALITY to light through the gospel” The Word said that unless death is put under OUR feet, Jesus will not come again.

    “Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste DEATH for every man. ” This means Jesus tasted DEATH already so we dont have to. So why do we die? Because some of us refuse to take the revelation of IMMORTALITY.

    The LAST TRUMPET is this: “1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

    How will death be destroyed? If we TAKE the PROMISES of GOD and start believing that JESUS truly conquered death on the Cross for us. If we take the Promises of God, we OPEN the Gift of Life He has died for. Opening the Gift means we BELIEVE AND LIVE AND CONFESS the Promises of God because we believe it with all of our heart. It is the message of IMMORTALITY. IMMORTALITY and ETERNAL LIFE are two different things. Read Romans 2:7. Never in the Bible does it state anywhere that we must physically die before we can have ETERNAL LIFE. LIFE means in the orignal translations – “life without interruptions”.That means NO DEATH. Paul clearly stated that these Promises was not for the martyrs like him, even if he did believe, but for “them” that together with Paul and his generation, we should all come to perfection, together. Who are they? A future generation that will take the message and promise of IMMORTALITY. It can be you.

    Finally, let us read Habbakuk:

    Hab 3:2 O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, REVIVE THY WORK in the MIDST OF THE YEARS, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

    To revive means “TO MAKE ALIVE”. Make alive what? THY WORKS – which are us.

    “KJV Hab 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that HE MAY RUN that readeth it. (Run means to run your race in God)
    Hab 2:3 For the vision is YET FOR AN APPOINTED TIME, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because IT WILL SURELY COME, it will not tarry.
    Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

    “KJV Hab 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? WE SHALL NOT DIE. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.”

    People, Paul knew that the true immortality was for an appointed time and yet he said, he is not ashamed to preach the gospel, even if true immortality was not meant for him, although he experienced it. He know the Word of God very well – he was a learned man. The Scriptures said that the just shall live by Faith. If you cannot take the message of Immortality, it won’t work for you. If you want to know more about immortality – write me, and I shall forward the incredible teachings of Kobus to you – some of them.Kobus is living proof that IMMORTALITY exist.

    Ever heard of Sadhu Sundar Singh? He lived in the early 1900’s, preaching the Gospel all over the Globe.

    One day he was going up the Himalayas, and described this trip in a letter he wrote in July 1916. It was on the Mount Calash. There was a Christian Maharaji, living in a cave. At this point, this man was just on 400 years old. They got all the testimonies to confirm that he was just over 400 years old. People of Korea went there, 3 or 4 years ago, and they found the same man, whom is now over 500 years old. Unbelieveable? Yes, until you read the stuff!

    This man said: people did not want to believe me at first, because of this unexpected visit to that saint. There was a Padre Williams, that went to visit this saint and confirmed the saint’s age as well, due to the dialect he spoke which was not used anymore since more than 400 to 500 years ago. Come on people, wake up and google the stuff – or get hold of the letters that Sadhu Sundar Singh wrote about this saint of a few hundred years old . Research and read it for yourself, but stop fighting God on His amazing promises.

    Best is if you order the stuff (Immortality teachings) yourself – from the Spiritword website

    Remember, the Kingdom of God is for believers, not achievers. Stay blessed!

  • Amanda

    Golda

    Why do you THINK Jesus told his diciples to HEAL the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel? To KEEP them from DYING! Why do we heal the sick and raise the dead, just so that they can die later? Our God is not that cruel. He truly meant for us to live.

    Lazarus is not with us. How do you explain that? Golda, does this really make sense to you? You are staking an awful lot on this. You cannot go on what you would like to believe, but only on what is true. Please take the time to think again.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Golda, dear Golda

    I am not even reading your comments, one thing that did pop out what something you said about Sundar Singh. Sadhu Sundar Singh – Hindu Mystic in Sheep’s Clothing

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Golda

    All Kobus has to do is prove to the WORLD that he was healed. What a great witness that would be.

    I am not accusing him of lying. If he has nothing to hide he should be shouting for JOY and LET ALL THE WORLD KNOW WHAT A GREAT GOD HE SERVES.

    Secrets however stay behind closed doors.

  • My goodness, what on earth is Kobus van Rensburg preaching. What does he really believe.

    This man is a leader of a cult.

    Golda, you have no concept of what salvation is about, who the Holy Spirit is, who Jesus Christ the Son of God is, even why he died for you. Have you ever humbled yourself before Jesus and asked Him to forgive you your sins, ever admitted that you are a sinner and asked the Holy Spirit to come and live in you, to teach the meaning of the Word of God to you when you read the Bible and pray.

    Take your eyes, mind and soul off Kobus van Rensburg and follow Jesus, Kobus is not immortal, Kobus is not Jesus, Kobus will lead you and all his other followers to hell, if you and the others do not wake up and read other books in the Bible, such as the new Testament, not just the specially picked out verses by Kobus. Study the Bible on your own, with the help of the Holy Spirit to guide you and find the real truth for yourself.

    You have been told such nonsense and the worst part is that you really do seem to believe what Kobus has taught you. My question is this, if you were truly born again, the Holy Spirit that would be abiding in you, would be screaming at you by now, to wake up and get out of this so called ministry.

  • Michael Anthony

    Golda,

    You have used the allegorical method of bible interpretation – please read my article – in other words, the way you interpret scriptures they can mean whatever you want them to mean. (You might of course, call it special revelation)

    You have not clarified what the ‘gospel’ or ‘salvation’ is, please do that before proceeding with this diatribe of yours. Please explain what you mean by ‘holy’.

    Really, you are not gaining any friends here – you have accused us of being the accuser, you have called us Pharisees, insinuated threats…

    Quote >>> Here is your answer: Why did Paul die, and why did Peter die? Because Paul explained that later on. He said we know that this stuff is written not for our time and age, but for the people on whom the end of the ages will come. What is the end? Simply the fulfilled Promises of God. What is part of the fulfilled Promises of God (Heb 11:39)? Immortality. End of quote>>>

    No……really, this is boring me to tears. You have just done a bait-and-switch there. You can make the ‘promises of god’ mean anything you want it to with this method of interpretation. The promises of God in the context of Hebrews 11 has nothing to do with immortality – this is a completely self-refuting argument. The promise is of the fulfillment of the COVENANT. If they never saw the promise it would imply that the previous saints in Hebrews had seen the promise. Let me rephrase it, if the promise was immortality that means that the previous people in Hebrews 11 became immortal?
    This makes zero sense; so the end is when the promises are fulfilled? So when is that exactly? And the promises are fulfilled when? Let me guess…when the end comes? This is making me really dizzy. It really is painful to read this convoluted interpretation.

    Have you thought this immortality thing through? Answer these questions –
    1. If someone put 10 bullets through your body would that effect you at all? And would ‘god’ instantly plug the holes or would you have pray for healing? Would you still be waterproof?
    2. If someone put a grenade in your hands and it exploded would god put all the pieces of flesh back into a recognizable body again? What about a nuclear blast?
    3. Are you going to age and look older as the years go by? Or are you going to grow younger, stay the same?
    4. How long does this go on for? 1000 years? forever?
    5. Answer this one – if I don’t believe in immortality do I go to hell? Does that also mean that every Christian in the world (except you, Kobus and a few others singing kumbabya in the compound) are also going to hell? What exactly are the consequences for not believing in immortality?

    You do realise that what you believe is neither orthodox nor traditional Christianity, right?
    You do also realise that no one is taking you seriously, right?
    You do also realise that if the above are true, we kinda…well, think that you need prayer…

    Golda, again

    Do you ever take the context that the verse is written in into account? The grammar? The historical context? What is being addressed in the passage?

    Quote >>>
    When does a trumpet (1 Cor 15:52) sound in biblical terms? When a revelation is given. The revelation about immortality is given in these Scriptures and in many others, IF we will take it. But what is the LAST TRUMPET according to 1 Cor 15:52?
    End of Quote >>>

    Golda, pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese

    Explain to us how you have come to the conclusion that a trumpet sounds when a revelation is given? You have used the traditional scripture for the RESSURECTION of all the saints, we will all be resurrected on the last day. I can quickly prove to you from scripture that we all will be resurrected from the grave and then put on immortality – but not this side of Glory. We also believe in the rapture for those that are still alive at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15 onwards – the context is Chrit’s coming) but no immortality this side of redemption. I mean, the passages are so clear that you have to literally do a demolition job to come to your conclusions.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thanks JemFishie :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    That was funny… actually have tears streaming down my face.

  • cecilia

    please Golda, whenever you comment something, make sure it’s grinded on the truth! you wrote: “Cecilia – Kobus is not puffed up …”. so please show me where in my comment did I used these words?
    in like manner you twist many things to suite your beliefs; double-talk… it’s doing more harm to the user than to the hearer…

    >>> “There are many more miracles than just healing.”
    Aaaahhh, here’s some disguised truth glimmering through … but it’s a pitty you don’t elaborate on this point…

    one can SEE (your favorite word) how mind-control has taken its toll on you – you are repeating yourself endlessly…

    i rest my case.
    cecilia

  • Even if Kobus dies, they will come up with pathetic excuses for why he died. And people will actually believe it!! The excuse I heard for my Mom’s death, after countless ‘prophecies’ that she will live and beat the cancer, and that this sickness was just part of God’s plan with her life, many people was supposed to flood into that ‘church’ (sect) where we were attending after her healing. Well she died. The excuse was that she got up to heaven and Jesus asked her if she wanted to come back to earth, and obviously she said no. ?? Some of my family members believed that, and are still involved with that church, how blind can you be??!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Madelein

    It’s really so sad Madelein. This is not the first time I have heard this ‘punch line’. Let me come back to you on this one. I can’t remember now where I read this before. Where the wife of a pastor was raised 3 times from the dead by her husband; the 3rd time she told him she had had enough and said she wanted to stay in Heaven. I wish I was joking.

    I pray your family sees the truth Madelein.

  • Pieter

    Remember the Highlander movie….sounds like Kobus is a fan! “there can be only one…” lol….what a load of rubbish, and should be funny if not so sad….

    Personally I would rather die and then live Eternal with my Father….

    Anyway happy 2010 to all you guys! Keep up the good work!!!

    God Bless

  • Sharon

    Hi Deborah,
    I am not making any comment here, as it seems there are many people out there who hate our Almighty Creator and HIS words and truth. I would like to communicate with you, though as I do have something to say and ask you. I really do not want to bring any of my Father’s words into a messy discussion, having those who believe in doctrines of demons riducule the truth.

    Sincerely yours,
    Sharon

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> I am not making any comment here

    Yeah…ok if you say so.

  • Renthia

    Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
    2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
    Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
    Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
    1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
    Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
    Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
    Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
    Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
    Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
    Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
    Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
    1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
    Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
    Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
    Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
    Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
    Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
    Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
    Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
    Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
    Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
    Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
    Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
    Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
    Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
    Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
    Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
    Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
    Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
    Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
    Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

  • Renthia

    Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
    Jer 29:12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
    Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
    Jer 29:14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:
    Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Renthia

    Um, there is a big difference between coming Jesus Christ and become like Jesus Christ when one is truly saved. While on earth, you are mortal and you will get sick (because this is called life) and then you will die. But if you are genuinely saved, you will not die a 2nd death – a spiritual death and will receive eternal life. On earth you are not immortal, you are….mortal.

    When you are born again you have the Holy Spirit that comes to abide in you immediately. He leads you into all truth. And a regeneration takes place where through the Holy Spirit’s conviction of sin in your life you repent and strive to live a holy life, hence you start to become more like Christ. His blood shed on the cross will wash away your sin when you believe in Him . You will NEVER become Him, or be anywhere near HIS level. You can not forgive sins, and never will be able too either. But it does not stop there, your regeneration while on this earth is continuous and you will remain sinful whether you like it or not because we are born into a sinful world – hence your constant repenting, and humbling yourself before your KING.

    But you will NEVER BE Jesus Christ, or a god for that matter. To think this is blasphemous. If you think you can be on the same level as Jesus Christ or higher then it just shows you how much you think of Him. Not much. And the bible says He does not tolerate those who think these vile thoughts and He will tell you that He does not know you either and ask you to depart from Him.

  • Michael Anthony

    Renthia,

    On this article

    http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/02/the-whole-counsel-of-god/#more-7388

    No one, let me repeat; no one in his right mind will take anything you say seriously unless you correctly exegete the scriptures and use the WHOLE CONTEXT that these scriptures are written in. This is flooding the audience with scriptures out of their context (that would be historical, contextual and grammatical). I could draw any conclusion I want from the scriptures you so skillfully copy and pasted.

    It’s like this. person A says scripture X means yuxz to them. Person B says it measn xyz to them. You see a problem?

  • Renthia

    Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
    1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
    Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

  • Michael Anthony

    Never thought one could spam scripture, until now. That’s how they do bible study at the fiery castle of immortality. They don’t teach ‘to whom was it written, why was it written, what is the author addressing, what was going on at that time, who is the audience…etc’. Nope, they just throw scriptures at you continuously then say; ‘see, it says xyz’. You cannot question them immortal teachers because ‘they are using scripture’.

    Renthia, do me a favour please and breathe (in and out), then engage your mind. You have allowed yourself to be hypnotized through this vacuous, vain repetition.

    …click

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    >> Never thought one could spam scripture, until now.

    Hahaha. SPAM. That’s the word I was looking for, but you said it.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Renthia

    Instead of just quoting scripture ‘spam’ style, would you mind explaining to us why you are using the verses you are using and to back up what exactly? If not your next comment will be deleted.

  • Jean

    Renthia

    I really don’t know what you are trying to say. I have read all your scriptures and noticed that you have really mixed then up and they really don’t make any sense the way you have used them.
    Paul teaches us in 1 Cor 4 that we should be worthy and faithful stewards of the Gospel/mysteries of God.

    1Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of ministers of Christ, and stewards
    of the mysteries of God.
    1Cor 4:2 Here, moreover, it is required in stewards, that a man be found
    faithful.

    Ok, what does this scripture mean in practice?
    For me it means that I should bring the Word of God entrusted to me to people or “blogs” that cross my path. In this I must make sure that I bring the Word correctly used in its context so that its true meaning becomes apparent. This would also include explaining the implications of this Word to them and their lives.

    Renthia, by looking at your posts, I cannot say that you are a faithful steward of the mysteries of God . . .

    You bring more confusion and I know that God does not bring confusion.
    He ALWAYS gives you a clearer understanding of His Word.
    AMEN ?

  • Jean

    Concerning Kobus van Rensburg . . .
    The following scripture was brought to my mind when I read about this man:

    2John 1:5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another.
    2John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
    2John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
    2John 1:8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
    2John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    2John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
    2John 1:11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

    I don’t think a lot of explanation is needed regarding this scripture BUT please do note the following:

    It was written to a lady to keep her from going “astray” and “losing” her “reward”.
    NOW I noticed that in this blog it is mainly ladies who is “defending” this Kobus guy . . . Is there perhaps another “snake” in operation here?

    The men seems to be more cautious and is not following him “blindly” …Why?
    Maybe the ladies should be “listening” more to the more discerning men and also be a bit more cautious ?

    I also get the impression that this Kobus guy knows how to use “emotions”
    to get people to follow him and that’s why the ladies “fall” for him… Also, humbleness does not make you go to heaven …

    I challenge you ladies, please for once just stand back from your emotional attachment to this man and really compare his teaching to scripture. Does he run ahead and go beyond scripture as quoted above in 2 John 1:9? If he does, then he is false.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jean

    My goodness are you reading my mind? lol I was just going to say the exact same thing. There is something far more than just ‘ministry’ involved here. He appears to have ‘power’ of persuasion over women. And the power to push over the husband that he does not interfere.

  • Good advice Jean.

    This situation is very sad. I have seen many young Christians make really bad assumptions during the “euphoria” stage. This leads to incorrect beliefs which in turn determines the way we act…

    The sadness here lies in the fact that some of the folks that left comments here are following someone that is leading them astray and they won’t know it. How much time will go by before they realize their error and the error in the teachings they receive? There is a special place in hell for spiritual leaders who lead the people astray.

    I pray that the seed being planted here will cause them to seriously question where they’re at and on their way to. Enthusiasm is good, when applied in the right direction in the right spirit…

    Hosea 4:6 My people perish for lack of knowledge…

    Many Christians are unknowingly being harassed by evil or unclean spirits and they have to be cast out and renounced. Fantasy is a spirit that attacks your mind and is a spirit of insanty. It must be cast out and rebuked.

    Meditate on scripture and fill your mind with the Word of God and That will transform your mind. By meditate I mean to study the Word, to diligently seek full understanding of Scriptures within context. A good study Bible is a necessity and it should be utilized to the fullest extent.

    May GOD bless you and guide you and lead you into all truth.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Johan Grobler

    >> I pray that the seed being planted here will cause them to seriously question where they’re at and on their way to

    And this is exactly why this blog exists. It’s for those seeking the truth but are caught up in a web of lies. By the guidance of the Holy Spirit in their lives they are drawn to this site (depending on what they are caught up in) to read important information that will open their eyes to the truth.

    A while ago there was the whole Todd Bentley Revival thing going on and I followed this man from the day he stepped onto the stage to the day the revival finally collapsed. I wrote article after article and boy the curses that came flying my way were horrendous. I would say that 1 out of a 200 could discern a serious problem, the rest just went on feelings and emotions and wanting to be ‘healed’. Sickness and money are Satan’s 2 biggest playing cards to get people into his claws.

    What I found even more disconcerting was the fact that after the revival fell flat due to Todd Bentley having an affair at the revival. Not one of those who cursed me came back to me and said sorry. I was not looking for an apology, I just wanted to see if anyone would. And no one did.

    That’s the way the cookie crumbles I guess.

  • Hennie Cronje

    Dear writer of this article. Or shal i call you Jezebel for short. You are so misinformed. I am the creator of the Facebook group ” Kobus Van Rensburg will live and not die” Kobus himself has nothing to do with the group. You have been hunting me and other anointed prophets now for a while and i suppose you will not stop. But please be warned that you are attacking the anointing and this is very dangerous. If we are self apointed prophets, who appointed you to call us out. I think i know your father, his name is satan. Be warned stop this killing of the prophets now.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dear Hennie. And I shall call your Hennie for short. I know Kobus has nothing to do with your facebook group. But who cares. The truth is still the truth and Kobus still preached Manifest Sons of God teaching, that he is a god.

    As for hunting you and others, well this is the first time I hear about you, but thanks for the wonderful introduction. Your curses and threats are nothing Hennie Cronje for, He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4 “You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.”

    Kobus in sheep’s clothing:

    2 Timothy 3:1-9

    1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

    As for speaking the truth about Kobus (not you, I have no idea who you are) and his cult teachings I will carry on doing so. For the Word of God says: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. And then just read 1 Corinthians 5 with regards to removing the wicked from within the church who call themselves Christian but are not. And by removing them, that means not to associate with them. Actually I could be here all day quoting scripture where God tells us to expose false teaching and warn.

    The only reason why they don’t want people to warn is becuase they are running a business and will teach anything and everything to get the people to come and set up their monthly debit orders.

    Testing the spirits:

    1 John 4:1-3 “1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.”

    When anyone opens his mouth, he represents either the Spirit of truth or the spirit of error. Because Kobus has elevated himself to the level of a god and has taken on all sorts of demonic teachings etc, he denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

    Dangerous job this:

    >> But please be warned that you are attacking the anointing and this is very dangerous.

    “Attacking the anointed”…pffff…what a joke. You threaten me with ‘danger’? Actually I have heard this one so many times now it’s become more of a cliche than anything else.

    >> I think i know your father, his name is satan. Be warned stop this killing of the prophets now.

    “Stop the killing of the prophets now”? Now that is funny.

  • Michael Anthony

    Hennie Cronje,

    Let me get this straight; you are asking DTW to stop exposing … – and your gently persuasion is calling her Jezebel and a child of satan? Did you miss the 5th week of the immortality training syllabus (that was the lecture on immortal social and persuasion skills)?

    Can you explain something that puzzles me….

    This ‘group’ of yours; how come they never approach this topic with an attitude of ‘we understand where you are coming from, and understand why this may look like a cult but humbly ask you to repent and hope that you may find forgiveness in Jesus Christ. We have been praying that God open your eyes and that you would come to the full knowledge of his will etc…’ that would be [kinda] the Christian approach, right? Even more so from a ‘prophet’ that should be up there with the apostle Paul and Peter in terms of setting an example.

    Ever wondered why it’s always you guys that are angry?

    If you want to make a defense please do so from the bible [it’s that thick book with…ah, forget it…]

  • Renthia

    [EDITED: Renthia spamming verses again…tsk, tsk… as per my previous instruction, it would be great if you could explain the scripture you are posting Renthia cos anyone can copy and paste from the internet.]

  • Elmarie A

    Well said Micheal, just my thoughts too.

    Hennie Cronje
    Let me add my 2c worth here if i may.

    You seem to be a very aggressive person. Just please ask your self if aggression should be part of one’s personality/makeup? if one is a child of God.

    Galatians 5 (Amplified Bible)
    19:Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,

    20:Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),

    A question do you know the difference between Hunting and discernment? need help?

    Hunting – wikipedia as short part of meaning :
    Hunting is the practice of pursuing living animals (usually wildlife) for food, recreation, or trade. In present-day use, the term refers to lawful hunting, as distinguished from poaching, which is the killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species contrary to applicable law. The species which are hunted are referred to as game and are usually mammals and migratory or non-migratory gamebirds.A hunter is someone who engages in the act of hunting.

    Discernment – wikipedia

    Discernment is a term used in Christian tradition to describe the process of discerning God’s will for one’s life. In large part, it describes the interior search for an answer to the question of one’s vocation, namely, determining whether or not God is calling one to the married life, single life, religious life; ordained ministry or priesthood (Roman Catholic or Anglican/Episcopal) or any other ministerial calling by virtue of Baptism. The concept is not limited to ordination or vowed life.

    All moral conduct may be summed up in the rule: avoid evil and do good. In the language of Christian asceticism, spirits, in the broad sense, is the term applied to certain complex influences, capable of impelling the will, the ones toward good, the others toward evil.

    However, in the restricted sense, spirits indicate the various spiritual agents which, by their suggestions and movements, may influence the moral value of our acts. Concupiscence, disturbances of the imagination and errors of sensibility, thwart or pervert the operations of the intellect and will, by deterring the one from the true and the other from the good (Genesis 8:21; James 1:14). In opposition to our vitiated nature, or so to speak, to the flesh which drags us into sin, the Holy Spirit acts within us by grace, a supernatural help given to our intellect and will to lead us back to good and to the observance of the moral law (Epistle to the Romans 7:22-25). Besides these two spirits, the human and the Divine, in the actual order of Providence, two others must be observed. The Creator willed that there should be communication between angels and men, and as the angels are of two kinds, good and bad, the latter try to win us over to their rebellion and the former endeavour to make us their companions in obedience. Hence four spirits lay siege to our liberty: the angelic and the Divine seeking its good, and the human (in the sense heretofore mentioned) and the diabolical its misery.

    Blessings

  • Elmarie A

    Hennie Cronje
    Also on “You have been hunting me and other anointed prophets now for a while and i suppose you will not stop.”

    Also consider this here below.

    Quote from website of Jan Markel from olivetree ministries in Usa. It is also a discernment website like DTW. http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs019/1101818841456/archive/1102909586771.html

    It was Jesus Himself, who made it quite plain that we should “discern the signs of the times” (Matt. 16:1-3).

    And Jesus told His disciples regarding the run up to the end of the age, “You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (Matt. 24:6-8). The word translated “sorrows” in this context means “birth pangs.” And what do we know about birth pangs?

    There is no hunting taking place on DTW only discernment yes.

  • Jean

    Hennie Cronje

    Please look at the following scripture:
    Mat 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
    Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible.
    Mat 24:25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
    Mat 24:26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
    Mat 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
    Mat 24:28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

    The word used for “Christ” in these above verses, -Christos- in Greek, has got a very interesting meaning.
    it means: to anoint, an anointed one, someone who claims to have an anointing.

    Now the word for “false Prophets” in the above passage is -pseudoprophētēs- in Greek an means:
    One who, acting the part of a divinely inspired prophet, utters falsehoods under the name of divine prophecies, teaches false doctrines in the name of God.

    Now, just A few verses above we read: Mat 24:11 “And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.”

    Here we read that there will be “MANY” of these false prophets claiming to have an anointing. How many of your so called “prophets” are there ?

    Also, Hennie, you admit that these “anointed” prophets of Kobus and Co. could be self appointed… Well, allow me to clear your thoughts on this point.
    I have watched a few of services of Kobus and one thing really stood out nl:
    Kobus nearly always uses the following phrase when praying and anointing people:
    “So in the name of the Lord Jesus I anoint you.”

    Ok, problem, according to the Bible the anointing is given by God:
    1John 2:26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
    1John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.

    So, now my questions is: Who then is this arrogant, created human being called Kobus van Rensburg to hand out anointings ?
    Is he God ? He sounds to me like a Holy Spirit or anointing Bartender !

    The Bible teaches me to test all Spirits, well look at this Scripture:
    John 16:13 Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own accord, but will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.

    Kobus van Rensburg loves to speaks on his own accord when he is “handing-out” his anointings. What Spirit then does he have ?

    Further more it looks to me that if you pay Kobus enough, you can buy the Holy spirit or anointing!
    He keeps on asking for money and gives you beautiful “anointed” promises in return !
    Please read in Acts 8:18-19 what happens to a person who tries to pay for the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

    Lastly, Kobus van Rensburg uses the “anointing” completely out of Biblical context.
    According to the Bible, you are anointed when you have the Holy Spirit. Every born again believer has got the Holy Spirit !

    1Jo 2:20 But you have had the Holy Spirit poured out on you by Christ, and so all of you know the truth. (GNB)

    Well, in the church of Kobus van Rensburg it is “slightly” different . . .
    There KOBUS give you the Spirit (or anointing as he calls it) and KOBUS will give you Kobus’s truth according the gospel of Kobus van Renburg !

    Come-on Hennie, will you now strike me with a “holy lightning bolt” because I am “killing” YOUR self appointed precious little prophets ?
    Isn’t the god of your “prophets” strong enough to protect them ?

    Oh, wait! I forgot . . . Maybe you need to write some Kobus-anointed-words in this blog to help your god to stop these anointed prophets from being killed!!!

  • Johan Jacobs (London UK)

    Follow Paul…,not Jesus of Nazareth,or Kobus van Rensburg…..

    Aside from Jesus of Nazareth,there is no person in God’s eternal plan who is more important to that plan than the apostle Paul.He is the man to whom God gave the FINAL gospel,the gospel of grace,not based on other gospels in the scriptures on things that have happened since the creation of the world,but on things that were in God’s mind BEFORE the creation.In this gospel of Paul I am grounded.

    It is Paul ALONE who gives beleivers the message of their hope,simply that hope is…Christ IN you..Only Paul ALONE under instruction of Christ,was chosen to give us the gospel of grace.There are multitudes of beleivers today who have Christ IN them and do not know what it all means.

    Paul writes:- For He hath made Him to be sin for us,who knew no sin,that we might be made the righteousness of God IN Him (2Cor.5:21).In Getsemane,our sin,our suffering,our sickness,our ancestral spirit transfers,and our death was poured into His body.In fact,every malady that came from the curse of sin was poured into His body.Retribution was made for everything that separated us from the Father.

    Many beleivers live their entire lives without knowing they were IN Christ in Getsemane……they were delivered….for we as beleivers died IN Christ on the cross.He did not only die FOR me,He died AS me (Rom.6:3-5).I am dead IN Christ.I don’t need to be dying again to drinking,overeating,selfishness,or ancestral deliverance or any other shortcomings.This cannot be so,because they are already dead.I cannot die to something which are already dead.Only thing I can do is to fix it in my mind that I am dead to it.”Likewise reckon ye also yourselves dead indeed to sin,but alive unto God through Jesus our Lord”(Rom.6:11).Beleivers are never going to find out who they are until they focus on their position IN Christ….their identity.

    We as birthed sons of the Father are taught by the Holy Spirit…,those who are going on to the deeper things of God.Multitudes of beleivers have the Holy Spirit in them but I noticed they misuse Him for something other than what the scriptures teach.They will not let Him do what He is supposed to do….I experienced in the churches they don’t want you to be taught by the Spirit…They throw words around about you being led by the Spirit but they wont let you being taught by the Spirit…….because then you wont need them and their personal ministries.Instead to put you in bondage to their ministries,they use scripture such as…”How shall they hear without a preacher” (Rom.10:14)..but that is referring to the unsaved!!,but not to the level of my understanding as a birthed son.

    We as birthed sons of God has a definite identity which the enemy tries to veil from us.We are righteous,holy,acceptable,justified by the blood,the handwriting of requirements against us was nailed to the cross,we are COMPLETE…nothing can be added!—-in the Spirit.The only place we can grow is in our soul mind,and THAT is were the Holy Spirit works.The misuse of the Holy Spirit attibutes gifts to man,rather than Christ IN us being the gifted one.When man do not have the Holy Spirit revealing Christ to them,they claim the gifts are their own….as if God gave the gifts to them.Instead,the gifts are only a product of the Christ who is their life….No more me,myself or I !!.

    Denying the Holy Spirit His place as a teacher perpetuates law religion.If the Holy Spirit is not teaching beleivers,they are being taught by the five fold ministers…..These ministers teach what TO DO and HOW TO DO it.We all know that the five fold ministries can fail.I would not like to stake my relationshi[p with God on what man says.I prefer to let the Holy Spirit teach me the Christ who is IN me.

    When God put Christ IN the beleiver,it resulted in a radical change in the way God worked with people,Christ IN us,our ONLY hope of glory.Now God depends on Christ IN me and not on MY FAITH getting God to do a work outwardly.Grace is a different gospel J.Very little beleivers ive noticed know this.They hung unto their idea that by their own efforts of faith they can get God to take away all their problems……rather than accepting that God trusts Christ IN the beleiver to overcome everything.

    Why do most charismatic preachers preach from the Old Testament??.They try to convince you to put YOUR FAITH in God to be deliveredJ.But this is not grace!!..,not the FINAL GOSPEL!…not the gospel of Paul..If law is mixed with grace,grace is no longer grace!.If you read the scriptures as they are written,you will see something important about the law…….a vessel of God can use the law to destroy other vessels of God to reach its own ends….The hords of hell are marching!…..Law is the oil for the machinery of religion.Grace is opposite because grace is definable,grace is a PERSON!.Grace has NOTHING to do with what you do or don’t do.”For I am determined not to know anything among you,save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.(1Cor.2:2).Law cannot accept people on this basis alone,but puts them on probationJ..in catechism,bible study groups etc…they put you into bondage again.”And that because of false brethren brought in who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have IN Christ Jesus,that they might bring us into bondage” (Gal.2:4).

    The law is working in destructive ways in the church today!…but we have the mind of Christ. (1Cor.2:16)(Phil.2:5).We are following Paul as Paul follows Christ.We are saved by GRACE through faith and do not follow the gospel of CORRECTION!.,but the gospel of GRACE!.(Phil.3:8).

    The apostle Paul did not come to know Christ IN him from studying Abraham or following Moses…for they did NOT have Christ IN them!There is NO life in Abraham or Moses….Life is in the Son!.The only way that Paul or any other beleiver can come to know the indwelling Christ is by REVELATION!.it’s a different way of thinking,radical a different way of life,a different gospel!That’s why Paul calls it ….MY GOSPEL.No wonder Paul said..”If any other man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,let him be ACCURSED!”(Gal.1:9).

    When we were birthed,the Father’s intention was that the Holy Spirit would teach us by REVELATION.Since I had a revelation of Christ IN me my ONLY hope of glory,all my own ideas,church concepts,self efforts etc.was swamped and overwhelmed by Him.Christ IN me is my hope.Nothing in the Old Testament mattersJRevelation knowledge has overwhelmed all these ideas,religion and concepts.Once God revealed His Son IN me,nothing else matters much.For I am complete and rest IN Him.By grace I have a different kind of knowledge that enables me to face whatever issues come up in this world J.Therefore revelation knowledge taught by the Holy Spirit is the key by which your soul-mind grows.

    The deeper things of God cannot be seen with the eyes,heard with the ear or felt in the heart.Revelation knowledge has nothing to do with what you see feel or hear….It is what you KNOW!It is a knowing. (1Cor.2:9-10).Beleivers can fall from grace by leaving grace and going back to the law….(Religion,self efforts,church concepts,and doctrines of man).Revelation knowledge never violates the Word of God.Revelation knowledge brings to us what the Word always was saying,but we could not see it…we had the wrong glasses on J.

    As I got birthed and are gifted to be a musician,I had to set those talents aside while Christ became my life.In time it may again surface but it will be Christ’s.No more will I be a church entertainer,no more a bandleader out of my self efforts.I want the Christ IN me to lead JNever again to be entangled by a yoke of religios church concepts in self effort slavery.Delivered from the law,no more bound to what I was held by,no more trying to keep the rules!by grace I live in the newness of the Spirit.This is the desire of the Father for all beleivers.!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Johan Jacobs

    Dude, I can honestly say I have no idea what you are speaking about. I can highlight many very weird teachings in this comment of yours. But I am tired. I hope someone else has the energy to sort this one out.

    You sound like you have a mixture of beliefs all rolled up into one and then a new one…. the Paul followers movement? I dunno… hmmm… 0_0

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Johan Jacobs

    >> In Getsemane,our sin,our suffering,our sickness,our ancestral spirit transfers,and our death was poured into His body.In fact,every malady that came from the curse of sin was poured into His body.Retribution was made for everything that separated us from the Father.

    Not true. Jesus Christ was SINLESS when born, walked the earth SINLESS and was sacrificed on the cross for us and died SINLESS because His blood washes AWAY our sin. The sacrificial offering to the high priest in the OT was to be without blemish. The throat was sit and blood spilt as forgiveness of sin. The sacrifice did not take on the sin. This is one of the most disgusting lies taught by the false church. If Jesus Christ took on our sin and every sickness on the cross then he was no longer SINLESS before He died and anyone could have taken his place if that was the case.

  • Renthia

    My point is that the law has made us all blind to the Truth to who we are in Christ and that Truth can only be revealed by God’s Spirit i.e the Holy Spirit yet everytime we turn from the complete work that Christ did through Jesus Christ and we turn back to the law – see the whole book of Galations- a veil is put over our hearts and are we not able to see the finnished work He did in us.Everything in life is a choice and by God’s Grace He even provided us with a Guide that clearly tells us even what to choose.

    I also don’t need to ‘copy and paste’ the whole bible for it is each and everyone’s own responsibility to go and read the bible and those who are Spiritfilled will have a witness to what the Truth is even though it is not yet a revelation to them and by accepting the Holy Spirit’s witness above your own understanding will certainly be followed by a revelation in order for you to understand what the Will of God is.

    You are all set free from everything that sin brought into the world by the Blood of Jesus Christ, whether you believe it or not but as the scripture says will you experience only that which you believe.

    To believe is a choice but Faith is a Gift of God and the reward to believe without seeing is to see what you believed.

    New International Version (©1984)
    This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    “Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!

    2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
    1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
    Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Renthia

    That was all I asked that you explain yourself. You forget that people come and comment and if they do not explain themselves clearly, or who they are addressing confusion reigns because anyone can just copy and paste verses from the bible. That is what I was trying to say.

    So to clear things up do you believe that Kobus van Rensburg teaches the gospel or something else?

  • Renthia

    Deborah, seeing I did explain as requested could you please publish the scriptures I quoted.

    Thank you

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Renthia

    Do you think Kobus van Rensburg preaches the truth? You didn’t answer that question.

  • Renthia

    Deborah, I believe Kobus van Rensburg is preaching the true Gospel of freedom by Jesus Christ. The bible teaches that a prophet is discerned by his fruits and he has for one clearly shown that he is free from all religion and manmade doctrines. And not to mention the thousands of healings that God has done through his hands and now even his own(which I do not have to see proof on paper for because you could see him getting all the more ill and he now again has become more energetic and lively). Yes not everyone was healed or raised from the dead but instead of seeing what did not happen what about recognising the fact that there has been so many healed. I myself has prayed for people and they healed and others did’nt and the only reason for that I believe, untill the Lord shows me different, is that we-including Kobus- have not grown to the fullnes of the Faith that was given us. Your website-scripture is Rom1:16 and that is such a powerful scripture for it clearly says that the power unto salvation is the Gospel. If you have a look at the greekword that was used for salvation you’ll see that it is an ongoing salvation and not a once-off salvation. In otherwords where the Gospel is preached there will be salvation/freedom as proof. Is that not what we see when Kobus ministers?

  • Renthia

    In reply to Johan Jacobs and the comments that followed –

    1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
    1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
    1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
    1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
    1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
    1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

  • Renthia

    When I listen to anyone claiming to preach the Gospel of Christ I rely on the witnessing of the Holy Spirit and if for some reason I don’t agree with what I hear or see I try to go to the Father and not attack the messenger. Jesus said at a time when His dissiples complained about a man driving out demons in Jesus’ Name that they should let him be for if the man is not against Him(Jesus) he is indeed for him. Kobus is giving God and Jesus Christ all the glory for the good he has done. Shouldn’t he be judged on that rather than be condemned by what we don’t agree on? We have but one commandment and that is to love and just as God is not a respector of persons so also should we not just love all?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Renthia

    Right, now we know where you stand and just as I guessed even without you saying so. Just wanted you to actually say it. So you see you can quote scripture and believe in false teaching.

  • Jean

    Renthia
    You remind me om someone I knew very well before I was born again…
    This guy was VERY GOOD at quoting scripture! I mean, this EX-friend of mine knows the whole Bible from the top of his head!!! However , one day he did meet his match and lost it very bad . . . yep, He went and quoted scripture to a guy who was on a 40 day fast in a desert and this guy gave it to him bad !

    This guy is NOT my “buddy” any more because he is a loser . . .
    You can read about my Ex-Friend and my NEW-Friend in Mat 4:1-11

  • Renthia

    I have made my point. Thank you Deborah for giving me oppertunity to voice my opinion. I respect all your opinions even though I do not agree and can only again remind you that we are indeed all on a journey growing in the knowledge of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and our Comforter the Holy Spirit.Your hearts are hardened and it is understandible.

    Jean, I do confess Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour and that He is the Son of the only living God and Creator of all and that he died on a cross at Calvary for all mankind and rose again on the third day. Therefor if you believe the Bible to be the truth I am a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit of God Almighty and my only Teacher is Jesus Christ and my only comforter is God’s Holy Spirit. The Bible says that one can only confess Jesus Christ to be Lord if the Spirit of God lives in him. I am sorry that you feel offended. Regarding me quoting scripture, Jesus only replied with scripture to satan in the desert.Further more, I do not know the Bible as you claim I do, but I do have a relationship with the Holy Spirit and Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will remind us of His Words.

    This will be my last comment as I’ve accomplished what I needed to. Therefor I greet you with a prayer, that the eyes of all our understanding might be enlightened to the full knowledge of the Will of God and to the complete acceptance of what God did by His Son Jesus Christ on that glorious day on Calvary.And may His Grace and unconditional Love flood all our hearts with an unceasing flow of the Holy Spirit.

    God Bless to you all.

  • susan

    Renthia i applaud your bravery for trying to shine the light in a very dark place. We now can hand them over to God and say show them. as for Deborha and michael and jean they are veiled and seems like they r stuck in Heb 6v1 “therefore leaving the priciples of the doctrines of Christ, let us go unto perfection: not laying the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith towards God, of the doctrines of baptisms and of the laying on of hands and of the ressurection of the dead and of eternal judgment. im afraid these folks have not even come to the elementries of the doctrine of Christ….. Spend nomore time on them, shake the dust off ur feet. these people have NEVER prayed for the sick, they spend there time looking for the beast in revelation and wait to be beamed up any time now, im pretty sure they have had the tought of Obama being the anti-christ. they r dispensationalists, and there only hope is oneday i will be in heaven with Jesus. im going to the pastors and leaders confrence in feb 16-18 at kobus’s church, i dare u to come……btw Kobus announed that all trace of cancer is gone…… no i will not try and get u proof… u spend so much time digging in all the wrongs mud holes,GO GET PROOF URSELF…. U ALSO TWIST EVERYTHING THAT KOBUS SAYS AND WE CANT SPEND HOURS TRYING TO DEFEND KOBUS, WE R FAR TOO BUSY HEALING THE SICK IN THE HOSPITALS, AIDS CLINICS, TB CLINICS, AND THE PEOPLE IN THE MALLS….. OUT OF 10 PEOPLE WE PRAY FOR AT LEAST 5 AND MORE ARE HEALED, we dont focus on what doesnt happen we see what is being done….. we r fulfilling the words of Jesus…….. when u lay hands on the sick they Shall recover….My God is a good God…..

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah

    I sent you an email called “The Charismatic Movement A Biblical Critique by Brian Schwertley.”

    Perfect for Susan and Renthia. It is a must read for them both.

    It is more proof that Kobus van Rensburg, TBJ, Agh there are just too many to mention. Their teachings ARE NOT BIBLICAL!

  • Hennie van Zyl

    The most needed gift in these last days, is the gift of discernment. It is also the most misunderstood gift as people see it as criticism.

    ‘Prophet” Kobus van Rensburg is not a false prophet because Deborah says so. He is a false prophet as measured by te Bible, which is God’s Word and the ONLY measure that we have for testing false spirits.

    Remember that it is not the man that is judged- we may judge no one. It is the teaching that is judged and we are commanded to do just that.

    Deborah; may God bless you and may you grow from strength to strength.

    Hennie

  • Lettie

    Thank God, Prophet Kobus van Rensburg is healed !! Thank you Jesus….no matter what people may say, or think….Father, let us all be one …Christ-like people. stop tearing each other apart. I am sure you can spend your time in the Word and thank God for the Van Rensburg family who are giving their all to preach the Gospel. The fact that he is healed,,,, oh come on people, let us just give thanks for a brother who once was sick and now are healed…

  • cecilia

    I looked at the “miracle pool” pictures today on KvR’s site. the ceremony to “declare the water”, to “command” the water, and all that stuff … this is real dangerous stuff, very close with witchcraft … when ever will this stop! so many people believe (and live it out) that if it’s somewhere mentioned in the Bible, we can do it today in our lifetime also!
    I take the liberty of copying one of my other comments here, which was gracefully confirmed by Hennie above:
    we are not “against” Kobus van Rensburg. We openly question the “extra-biblical” perceptions/methods in “his ministry”.

    we are not “against” healing. we openly question the “extra-biblical” perceptions / methods used in his and other ministries.

    and yes, we do pray for the sick.
    cecilia

  • Charles

    I just need to ask a simple question. What is the gospel of Christ? criticism? who are you to judge another man’s servant? to his master he stands or falls, but God is able to make him stand. Why should we leave the gospel of Christ and start furthering the ministry of accusation. remember, the devil is the accuser of the saints. why share in the ministry of the devil? ok, let us assume that prophet Kobus has gone astray, the bible says we should correct one another in love. Deborah and co. is this your understanding of correcting in love? is your action of condemnation consistent with the workings of the Holy Spirit? when Peter was mistaken in the bible, what was Paul’s response? he withstood Peter to his face not cause public debate on his actions. Have you made any attempt to seek private audience with KVR to try to correct him if you feel so strongly that he is wrong?

    Do i agree 100% with what Kobus does – NO!
    Is there truth in what he preaches – YES!
    is He a false prophet because i don’t agree with all he does – NO!
    is there anybody with 100% accuracy of scriptures – NO!, that is why we strive towards perfection

  • Elmarie A

    Charles
    you said >>Deborah and co. is this your understanding of correcting in love? is your action of condemnation consistent with the workings of the Holy Spirit?<>ok, let us assume that prophet Kobus has gone
    astray, >>

    2)and then you said >> Is there truth in what he preaches – YES!<>Have you made any attempt to seek private audience with KVR to try to correct him if you feel so strongly that he is wrong? >>

    We are clearly warned to stay clear of these people!!!!

    Matthew 24:24 Amplified
    For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).

    1 John 4:1 Amplified
    BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    Mark 13:22
    False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and [work] miracles to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (those God has chosen out for Himself).

    Blessings

  • Elmarie A

    Charles

    We cannot trust a Teacher by to “assume” that he/she is “astray” and get to the Truth of the Word of God. That is just playing with fire and burning your fingers.

    No!

  • Jean

    Hey people! Kobus van Rensburg is GOD !

    Wow Man! Just check this out from his website:

    Cape Town ∙ 19-21 August 2008
    Cape Town is not only one of the most beautiful cities in South Africa, but after Prophet Kobus and the Spirit Word Team were there, it is most definitely also one of the most blessed cities in our country! Prophet Kobus ministered at the Bellville Velodrome 19th – 21st August 2008 during the big Cape Town Crusade. The crowd swelled and varied to somewhat 2000-4000 people in our evening services, where the Word was preached with power, revelation and zeal. As usual Prophet Kobus held a pastors’ meeting on the Thursday morning where he completely destroyed doctrines, reinstated the true Word of God and layed hands on all the pastors, in order to equip the pastors of the Cape province. Excitement and anticipation rose as thousands of people pitched up the last night where Prophet Kobus decided to turn the meeting into a Miracle Anointing service – If you’ve heard rumors that Prophet Kobus loves anointing people to heal and empower them, they are absolutely TRUE! Rows and rows of people filled the Velodrome and one after the other people fell out in the Spirit, they were healed and many for the first time were saved and experienced the power of our Almighty God!

    Do you see what I see ? God is not the main “attraction” featured here… NO it is the “mighty” Kobus and his team…
    Kobus and his Team ministered to the people of Cape Town . . .
    Kobus’s powerful and zealous and relational preaching made4 people “exited”…
    Kobus destroyed doctrines . . .
    Kobus reinstated the true Word . . .
    Kobus lays hands on pastors and thus they are now equipped . . .
    Kobus decides to make it a miracle circus..um I mean service . . .
    Kobus loves anointing People . . .
    Kobus loves to heal them . . .
    Kobus “empowers” them . . .
    etc . . .

    There is just one “mistake” in the last line of his report, It should have read:
    “…they were healed and many for the first time were saved and experienced the power of our Almighty KOBUS!”

    Oh, by the why… what on earth is a “Spirit Word Team” and a “Miracle Anointing service” ???… more invention’s/creations of the “Mighty” Angus van Rensburg… uhm, I mean, Kobus van Rensburg ?
    Eisch, these guys are so confusing…which witch is which witch ??? Aaaarg!
    What I am trying to ask/say is…Who is the biggest “miracle maker” of em all ?
    They seem to be running for the same “party” nl. the YBLN Party…(Your Best Life Now Party).

  • Jean

    One more thing…
    Kobus van Rensburg and Angus Buchan (3 weeks later) was here in my mother city of Cape Town and their “anointing” was so strong that while they were keeping their god busy by “chasing” the demons and commanding healings and proclaiming anointings out over people and the city… Cars were broken into outside their respective service venues… Lady’s of the night picked up some very “interesting clients”…
    Yes People, this god of Kobus and Angus, has a “funny” way of anointing a city and it’s people …
    I know, I live here and I was there…

    Jer 9:1 Oh that my head were waters, and mine eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people!
    Jer 9:2 Oh that I had in the wilderness a lodging place of wayfaring men; that I might leave my people, and go from them! for they be all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous men.
    Jer 9:3 And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD.

  • Elmarie A

    Jean
    Interesting, I for one did not even know they associate with each other???

    My question here. Is why are there so many “blind” people here making comment in favour of KVR, AB, and others and what can we do but pray for them. It is so so obvious there is nothing else we can do.

    C’mon people learn to discern please!!!

  • cecilia

    charles, when (a) person(s) preach the gospel, fine. mix it with extra-biblical – not so fine any more. mix it with witchcraft – totally way off ‘fine’. but then, God be the Judge. but then part of that ‘judgement’ is put out in the Bible, which on numerous places states that God hates witchcraft.

    I have been to this meetings (at different venues, different times), I cannot say it has changed me or taught me. I have quite a past/background to the spiritual world, and see a lot of what I used to practice, being displayed in his, and many other churches’ meetings. So I stay clear, because I made a decision to follow totally as close to 100% as I could, the Word of God only, no extras! so nobody can point fingers, so it does not break down the King and His Kingdom.

    I think the Lord is patient with a lot of folk, not to see anyone perish, but come to repentance…

  • cecilia

    question is: who will pick up the broken pieces once the bubble burst (‘bubble’ = that comes with the transference of spirit(s) – joy, outburst of laughing, outburst of heartfelt worship, healing, falling to the ground, ‘slaying other with the ‘spirit’ or with fire’, monkey-see-monkey-do after the leaders, etc) – all these mentioned by the way, being exact same as with Hindu’s and other religions not professing nor worshiping Jesus Christ the Son of God.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Charles

    >> Have you made any attempt to seek private audience with KVR to try to correct him if you feel so strongly that he is wrong? Many have, but nothing. So now we warn the innocent flock. If we don’t do it now one else will…

    Do i agree 100% with what Kobus does – NO! – Good start
    Is there truth in what he preaches – YES! – Bad start
    is He a false prophet because i don’t agree with all he does – NO! - No he is false becuase what he teaches and what the word of God teaches are two different things
    is there anybody with 100% accuracy of scriptures – NO!, that is why we strive towards perfection - YES, He is called the HOLY SPIRIT AND HE TELLS US ALL TRUTH – AND HE WILL NEVER CONTRADICT HIMSELF

  • gary

    Jesus healed Kobus from stage 4 cancer. He is healed. So since it was a “tragedy” that he got cancer i’m sure you all rejoice now that the tragedy is turned to victory and a wonderful demonstration of the eternal gospel of Jesus.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    gary

    Jesus healed Kobus from stage 4 cancer. He is healed. So since it was a “tragedy” that he got cancer i’m sure you all rejoice now that the tragedy is turned to victory and a wonderful demonstration of the eternal gospel of Jesus.

    Now let’s ask the question. Since he preaches a message that is so far from being biblical, who healed him? Not JESUS CHRIST that is for sure.

    What did he get in return for his healing? More power to persuade the masses?

    There is not one ounce of christianity in Kobus’ preaching. He might be the most lovable, hugable and the friendliest man ever, but that changes nothing.

  • Gerhard

    Wow for someone that preaches more than 3 time a week, holds pastors conferences, quotes the bible without mistake Kobus must be a really good fake. If Prophet Kobus is in it for the money, then WHEN does he spends his money? He preaches 12 months a year, he never leaves for holidays overseas. He does not stay in a two story mansion. He lives in a random mine house in Stilfontein. So now the question, if he is a false prophet, then where is the real prophets? If Prophet Kobus died of cancer everybody would have said: “Ah see he was not a man of God because God did not heal Him” But now Prophet Kobus IS healed, now you claim that it was not Jesus who healed Him? Mmmm interesting, even if God HIMSELF showed up and told you that Prophet Kobus is a man of God then you will still not believe. So does this blog really mean something? Nobody is going to change your mind. Isnt it strange, Jesus were also called a demon possessed man, people also said His miracles is false. So it’s nothing new. But brother if you have the Spirit of God IN YOU, then you will realize when your in one of Prophet Kobus’s meetings that God is there. Jesus is being worshiped and adored, not Satan. Do yourself a favor and go the Stilfontein, you will be amazed. And YES, Kobus had CANCER, but NOW he is TOTALLY clean of Cancer….Jesus gets the Glory (Prophet Kobus’s Words)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Gerhard

    Yeah right….and oh yeah…sure…mine shack lol, holidays haha, bla bla. So you belong to his gym? Booked any flights via spirit word travel agency lately?

    It really really annoys me when people come and make silly comments without checking their facts.

    As for his cancer. I never questioned that he didn’t have cancer. I wanted to know if he really did. Now we know that he did. And I would not doubt either that he could have been ‘healed’. Or is is just ‘remission’?? Either way it was not God that healed him.

    Will the cancer come back? What did he get in return for his ‘healing’. More power to deceive the people? Business must be booming now.

    I will keep you posted.

  • Glen

    I take pity on you law preachers, you should read the bible properly and see what is really in there.
    Oh by the way , did you hear Kobus is healed.

    so what do you have to say to that law preacher of dead works!!!.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Glen

    What law? Oh you mean the law that was written in our hearts when we are born again? Why do you pity that Glen?

    Yes, I hear he is healed. Now if you scroll up you will notice that I twice ask the question, …but who healed him? Certainly was not God for Kobus preaches a satanic doctrine filled with lies and lying signs and wonders.

    last note: “law preacher of dead works” impressive name calling there. I’m gonna start a ‘Christian top 10″ insult list. I think you will be ranked about No. 3. The idea is to try get out of the top 10 Glen. Pray to Jesus Christ Glen and repent that you follow after men such as Kobus who rob people of a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ th Son of God. Kobus places Himself between man and Jesus Christ like a catholic priest would. Kobus is the ‘little’ Jesus that you have to go to before you can get to Jesus Christ (or in this case a false Christ).

  • Pieter

    Very well said DTW

    All these “revival” religions is actually a “reverting” religion. Its actually going back to Roman Catholic ways. You are right the prophets = the priests. And wait for this….they become your interpreter of the Bible, same as the pope. You don’t need to actually read anymore because just like the pope (whom apparetntly have “direct” access to God) they interpret the word for you.

  • Jean

    Gerhard
    I am worried about your ability to discern.

    If I “read” your comment correct, you are trying to “prove” the Scripture which says that a Tree will be known by its fruit. Right? And according to you, Kobus is bearing the “good” fruits. Right?

    Ok, please then consider the following “possibility”…
    Satan comes as an Angel of Light, doing lots of signs and wonders . . .
    If we then look at this “deceiver” we don’t really see something wrong straight away…
    As we are commanded to test all teachers, we must look a little further…
    Lets look at the “results” of the “preaching” and “healings” of this “angel of light” or Kobus van Rensburg in your case.
    How do people react and what “fruit” happens/results in their lives…

    Well, I don’t know you but from your comment above I can see the following “fruits” of Kobus in your life.

    Fruit 1
    You have been made to believe that a person who is very “busy” with teaching, attending meetings and conferences MUST be a man of God.
    Well, got news for you…Satan is then also a man of God ! He is ALWAYS busy with the Word…just “twisting” it a bit though.
    Satan and his cohorts are also “believers” …(James 2:19)

    Fruit 2
    You have been made to believe that if you are physically healed from cancer then it must be God!
    Well, my neighbor is a Muslim and he got healed from blood cancer (medically proven) by going to Mekka and throwing stones at Satan.
    Satan also heals deadly wounds(Rev 13:2-4)

    Fruit 3
    You have been made to believe that the Spirit of God is in Kobus’s meetings and you must go to Stilfontein to “experience” or see it.
    Well, Jesus said that the Spirit is IN YOU and not in a place or building.
    Joh 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
    Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever–
    Joh 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

    Fruit 4
    You have been made to believe that Kobus is a Prophet and should be called by that title.
    Jesus preaches a different Gospel.
    Mat 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
    Mat 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
    Mat 23:10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[2]
    Mat 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
    Mat 23:12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
    Gerhard, who do you follow ? Jesus or Kobus ?

    Fruit 5
    You have been made to believe that EVERYTHING taught by Kobus is the truth and thus “nobody” has the right to “test” his teachings to see if they are true or not.
    The Bible says: Act 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

    Gerhard, what will happen if you went to Kobus and told him that a specific teaching that he gave is in conflict with the Bible? eg. God gives the anoitning and not Kobus.
    Will he listen and “repent” ?

    The Bible says not to trust ANY man…
    Why do you put your trust in this man’s teaching ?
    Jer 17:5 This is what the LORD says:
    “Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
    who depends on flesh for his strength
    and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

    Why do you then defend a man that teaches you these Un-Biblical ideas ?

    Gerhard,
    Am I wrong in trying to discern the so called prophets? Look what Paul says:
    2Co 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    Paul was ruthless and taught his churches to do just that themselves AND Jesus approved of this himself when he spoke to the Ephesians:
    Rev 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

    Please, distance your self just once from Kobus and take an “objective” look at his “teachings” and “workings”.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jean

    >> Well, my neighbor is a Muslim and he got healed from blood cancer (medically proven) by going to Mekka and throwing stones at Satan.
    Satan also heals deadly wounds

    No way? See now that is interesting. Could have been worse though; he could have been healed after throwing satan with a stone.

    hehehehe

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jean

    That was an excellent comment btw. I hope Gerald is not a one stop commenter and comes back to read that one day.

  • Juan

    Owner of this website:You are on dangerous ground, you think you have this supernatural discerning ability, you thrive on strife and division. You clearly dont understand the spiritual implications of your actions, otherwise you would have never engaged in so much dishonor. You clearly are blinded by your own pride. You will just come up with a another wise self inflated answer for this mail, just to stir more strife, This site is born from the mindset that were formed in you from your studies, and from your mentors who walks in dishonor.

    1Ch 16:19 When you were few in number, and of little account, and sojourners in it,
    1Ch 16:20 wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people,
    1Ch 16:21 he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account,
    1Ch 16:22 saying, “Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!”

    this is a warning to you, because you stretched your hand to a prophet your hand have become deformed, your choices & actions have become shrinked and shrivelled, and in one hour sudden colapse will come

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Juan

    this is a warning to you, because you stretched your hand to a prophet your hand have become deformed, your choices & actions have become shrinked and shrivelled, and in one hour sudden colapse will come

    OH NOOOOO. My hand, my hand…myyyy haaaanddddddd. Oh my choices and actions are shrivelling and finally *collapses*

    Opens, one eye, am I dead, yet?

    *closes eye*

    waits 10 minutes…. (this is my dead hand typing now)

    —-> I’m still not dead, my hand is not deformed my actions and choices have not shrunk shrivelled and lastly, I wont be collapsing for many many many many years to come.

    Juan, Jesus Christ never cursed people to death. But your god, Satan does. I think you need to desperately review which god you follow in light of what you have just said to me.

  • Elmarie A

    Juan
    >>this is a warning to you, because you stretched your hand to a prophet your hand have become deformed, your choices & actions have become shrinked and shrivelled, and in one hour sudden colapse will come<<

    Do you realise what you are doing here and how you are representing yourself by your words.
    # 1 John 2:11
    But he who hates (detests, despises) his brother [ in Christ] is in darkness and walking (living) in the dark; he is straying and does not perceive or know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
    1 John 2:10-12 (in Context) 1 John 2 (Whole Chapter)

    Wich God are you serving Jean tell me is it Kobus van Rensburg or God who is the Almighty and who sent Jesus who died on the cross for our sins. You are serving Kobus van Rensburg it is so obvious.
    Luke 16:13
    No servant is able to serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (riches, or anything in which you trust and on which you rely).

    You are in my prayers.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Juan

    Just to let you know. I am still ok ;)

  • cecilia

    Whaau! (to use NAR language! but I just had 2!) Juan is the first negative prophet I’v encountered over the net in a VERY Looooong time! I’m glad u’r stil ok Deborah!
    so – I’m just wondering: is this the ‘prophetic spirit’ that’s being imparted on these meetings?
    so as far as I know Deborah, your mentor is the Lord Jesus Christ through Holy Spirit, and your teacher is Holy Spirit through Word of God, yes? and did this person just said your mentor walks in dishonor?
    Whaau!!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    C

    Yip. Boggles the mind I tell ja.

  • Elmarie A

    Juan
    >>1Ch 16:19 When you were few in number, and of little account, and sojourners in it,
    1Ch 16:20 wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people,
    1Ch 16:21 he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account,
    1Ch 16:22 saying, “Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!”<<

    It is important that both you, friend, and Kobus van Rensburg understand the context and history of the above passage that you quote. I will keep it really short and simple, but before I do, I certainly need to stress that by attacking true believers when they are, through love, simply trying to correct error Scripturally, is certainly not the gentle way of the Lord Jesus which we follow.

    Would you pause for a short while and imagine the world today, had the Gospel been written by violent followers of false gods, false apostles and false prophets. Through the atoning Blood of Jesus, the crucifixion (which He certainly did not protest violently) and the gentle but firm reprimanding of those sheep who went astray, He showed us all the way to teach and lead our lives. Jesus certainly never threatened even the worst sinners, nor spoke curses upon those who crucified Him. Least of all their hands:)

    There are two simple points which you have to understand, and please be a Berean and check that which I say. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD, but test all things (1 John 4:1). I for one would be grateful to you if you would be so kind as to point out this verse also to our friend Kobus Van Rensburg.

    One: there are no prophets today as there were in Biblical times. There is no need for them today, as the Word of God has been written and completed (the Bible) and the Word is sufficient to teach, prove, correct, discipline and explain how we should live and believe (2 Timothy 3:16). If the sacrifice which Jesus (THE Anointed One) made, in dying for all our sins (John 3:16) was not enough, and we still need tiny little men calling themselves prophets today to convince men of God's Almighty power, then you would agree Jesus was not the Saviour. Therefore van Rensburg is a false prophet.

    Two: The passage of Scripture you quote above refers to the Jews (God's anointed 1 Ch 16:22) as they were led by God through many nations, kingdoms and people (1 Ch 16:20). They needed prophets with them to TELL THEM WHAT GOD WANTED THEM TO DO. God kept the "few of the Jews in the trek" (1 Ch 16:19) safe from the nations they travelled through on their way to the promised land (certainly not Klerksdorp) and protected them supernaturally from oppressors and strange kings (1 Ch 16:21). That was the miracle demonstrating the unequalled Glory and omnipotence of God's power.

    Therefore, if I am mistaken and you or Kobus van Rensburg are Jewish, this passage DOES apply to your forefathers, and if you have not accepted the New Covenant (New Testament rules) then you are both still under the Mosaic Law and in big trouble. I have not read any posts above the last one you posted, so if I am repeating anything posted before that I certainly apologize to the writer thereof. God bless. Grant

  • Berean

    My immediate response to this tragedy is why does Kobus not heal himself?
    Are his gifts of healing only for others? (see LUKE 4: 23)
    Surely as a “Prophet” and a “Man of Faith” he is able to beat this thing with his hands tied behind his back. Or…….???????

    BEREAN

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Berean

    Well he has been ‘healed’, he is no longer showing signs of cancer. So under normal medical terms that would be called remission. And if I am not mistaken he did go for medical treatment.

    His progress back to full healthy status is progressing. So there was no immediate healing as Jesus did in the Bible where the person was healed instantly and completely.

    But Satan does heal> Oy yes. He will take away what he gave you and replace it with something else.

    So we have a few things to think about here: 1) He is in remission due to medical treatment, 2) his sickness has been replaced with more power to deceive – as is clearly visible due to people now really thinking this guy is superhuman.

  • Jean

    Hey Juan

    I do believe that the “mu-tie” you have used against Deborah did not work so well…
    OR
    Maybe Kobus van Rensburg will have a stronger “prescription” for you… Go back to him and complain because He gave you a “fake-watered-down-anointing” because it did not work !

    Actually, I must thank you. You have PROVEN beyond doubt that the “anointing” of Kobus is Fake… it does not work.

    THANKS JUAN

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Juan

    Yeah, I’m still alive… and kicking. I am however shrivelled from a tad of sunburn on the nose but other than that all is A-ok.

  • Disgusted

    Just a bit concerned to see all this bickering and we supposed to be on the same side – really people, it is wrong, what would an unsaved person reading this site think of our religion? Surely they would be put off. Wow! The amount of ridiculing and ganging up – it belongs in a soapie. I myself have chosen to deal less with evangelical tv and more with the precious Word and make sure to check anything said by man against it so as not to be deceived – and not condemn the person who made the mistake- everyone is human after all and no one is perfect. Just a thought though – we are told to stay in the Word so we may not faulter – I knew a couple of people who knew Kobus and they say he is continually reading the Bible – at home, all over – he can even be found at two in the a.m lots of the time just praying and reading the Word in their church- more I am sure than the average follower- they say He truly loves Jesus. My worry is this – if he puts in so much effort to stay true to the Word and yet you say he is led by satan – what chance do the rest of us have? Thanks for reading this and may God bless you all!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Disgusted

    I dunno, what would an usaved person thinks when they see kobus’ followers curse people and hope they die. I know: They will see Kobus van Rensburg is a crack pot and that this his ministry is a mockery of anything ‘normal’.

    Disgusted, when you understand that there is nothing in this world that can get someone saved BUT the Holy Spirit who leads us into truth, then you will understand that the only thing you have left is to warn those trapped in Kobus’ claws to break free from his evil deception.

    What are the chances for the rest of us you say? Well, 1) you have a brain? 2) You have a heart? 3) You either want to know Jesus Christ or you don’t 4) You can’t stand before God one day and point at Kobus and say well, that man made me dislike you… God.

  • Jean

    Hi Disgusted
    You said:
    >>I knew a couple of people who knew Kobus and they say he is continually reading the Bible – at home, all over – he can even be found at two in the a.m lots of the time just praying and reading the Word in their church- more I am sure than the average follower- they say He truly loves Jesus.<>they say that he truly loves Jesus<<

    Jesus himself said:
    Joh 14:21 "The person who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I, too, will love him and reveal myself to him."

    If this scripture is the Truth and you say Kobus loves the Truth, why then did Kobus think it necessary to go to a man (TB Joshua) to get a "stronger" anointing and revelations ?
    Why doesn't Kobus teach the Truth that Jesus would reveal to him if he followed Jesus and his commandments?

    I have a friend who is a follower of Kobus. This friend currently bears/believes the following "fruit" of the teachings of Kobus:
    He believes he cannot be "touched" by Satan because he has got the anointing…
    He believes he cannot get ill because he has got the anointing . . .
    He believes he is successful in his business because he has got the anointing…
    He believes anyone who speaks against Kobus will be cursed and become ill . . .
    He believes that he will be "rewarded" one day by God because he followed Kobus…

    These are just some of the beliefs that was "implanted" into his life by Kobus.

    Now, Mr/Mrs Disgusted, will you still "love" or "defend" Kobus if you have a child who followed Kobus's teachings and believes the above "trash" ?
    Will you not expose the false believes and try to correct you child so that he may see eternity with God one day ?
    Will you not try to warn your child to stay away from that false teacher who taught him those false doctrines that leads you to hell ?
    This ball is now in your courtyard, play it – if you can.

    I believe that my displeasure/anger towards Kobus is the same as Jesus had towards the pharisees. They also studied the Scriptures but taught their own interpretations and versions of it. In so doing the people of Israel were lead astray and ended up in killing the Son of God.

    Disgusted, I have been there myself – I got the T shirt – I burned it – and got arrested for doing it.

    Paul in his ministry warned the followers of Christ and then attacked and exposed these false teachers…
    2Co 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground
    from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal
    with us in the things they boast about.
    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as
    apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants
    of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    Come on Disgusted, lets give these exposing/discerning ministries their place and be thankful that some believers are being "rescued" from hell in this way.
    Even if only ONE person got the truth here and changed his ways unto salvation, it would have been worth it and "reward" will be given one day for this.
    I know of at least two people who discovered Truth on this site and have been "rescued" from a false believe system.
    PRAISE GOD !

  • I don’t know the owner of this site but the accusations made against Kobus are false. He is a good man. I don’t agree with him on immortality or tithing but know that he is a good man that is saved and loves people. He understands a lot of the Gospel. Kobus and I had our disagreements but that does not make him a sinner or unsaved. I can almost feel a bit of joy in the heart of the writer of the article about Kobus having cancer. I think you need to repent. If I come to you and say repent and ask forgiveness will you do it? No!! You will not. You sound so arrogant man. Just repent and get of from your high horse and come down to earth. I wonder if this will even be published of this site. Kobus is healed from cancer and going strong. Medical reports declared him healed as fat as I know. I am not a big KOBUS FAN but he is doing great work. If we don’t agree on all things it does not give us the right to try and bad mouth a person. Just repent and delete this blog.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Bertie

    How about you read all the comments in this section, ok? And then tell me if Kobus followers seem like Christians to you. Btw just to let you know. I am still fine after being cursed to death.

    Do you know Jesus Christ the Son of God? Do you have the conviction of the Holy Spirit in your life? If not, please go and open your bible and read up on salvation and how to be saved. Here are 3 verses for a good start.

    “REPENT THEREFORE and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.” (Acts 3:19)

    “IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

    “… if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.” (Romans 10:9)

    I see you are a minister of sorts. You should now what to do. I hope you preach the genuine message of salvation to your congregation.

  • cecilia

    Bertie, somewhere you lost it! YOU “feel” a bit of joy in the heart of the blog-owner and HE / SHE must repent because YOU feel something? Oh no, now I’ve heard (read) everything!
    Oh, and, the owner of this blog stays in a kinda-a-small sized department… can’t keep ‘em horsies in there!
    “Medical reports declared him healed as fat as I know.” Ooohhh nnnoooooo! was Kobus FAT? lol – looked like you supplied our dose of humor for the day!
    For someone who is “not a big KOBUS FAN” you sure are coming up rather strongly for the man?
    and as for being an evangelist, this is really a bad bundle of words you chose to comment on a blog? I’m sure Ed E (who I have met personally) did not have an influence here …..

  • Daniel

    Prophet Kobus is 100% CANCER FREE and you say nothing about it you servant of satan. He is completely healed. HALELLUJAH!!! PRAISE THE LORD for the man of God. The devil is defeated and all his followers are left in shame…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Daniel

    Which god healed him?

  • Elmarie A

    Daniel
    Yikes.
    Yes Daniel please tell us which god healed him.

    Daniel you seem bitter?

  • Frans Goosen

    Rom 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
    17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord. 20 Therefore

    “ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
    If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
    For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”[b]

    21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good

    Deborah

    Wees jy maar net versigtig dat jy nie aan die verkeerde kant van die lyn staan nie. Laat die oordeel aan God oor. Alles gebeur met n doel. Ja Kobus was baie siek vir watter rede weet ek nie. Maar Job het ook deur n harde tyd gegaan sodat sy geloof getoets kon word. So kan jy die mense in die bybel gaan opnoem wat deur beproewings is en better ander kant uitgekom het. Dit is nie jou (DEBORAH) se plek om te oordeel nie laat dit aan God oor. Hoekom begin jy n web site om Kobus van Rensburg te down???? Wens jy dat God jou eerder op so n manier wil gebruik? Wel ek het vir jou nuus dit begin nie by websites waar jy ander mense sleg se nie!!!!!

    Begin jou bybel lees en begin met die klein dingetjies in die lewe en met tyd sal God jou oor groter dinge aanstel.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Frans

    Excuse me? So you are in full agreement that he preaches a false gospel and leads people astray?

    If he was healed by the One and only living God he would no longer be preaching lies. But he is still preaching lies. You becareful who’s side you chose. A lie (Kobus van Rensburg) or Jesus Christ (The WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE).

    Btw Frans,if you can read, you will notice this website is not about Kobus van Rensburg.

    Also, Frans, scoll up and read the wonderful Christian comments made to me by wonderful Christian followers. Kobus is NOT Christian, and until he gets on his knees before Jesus Christ and repents, he has no hope.

    And the verse you quote HAS NOTHING to do with my article exposing Kobus as a false teacher who is spiritually KILLING people who go to him and seek his snake-oil.

  • Frans Goosen

    Who appointed you to decide what teachings is false and what is true? God? If so please remember to bring your letter of appointment on the day of your judgment!!!!

    What great things did you do for God? Do you have your own church? Do you preach the gospel? In what way are God using you that you can even think you are special enough to say I can discern the spirits? What have you done for God?

    Please listen to me: What if you are wrong? Do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

    I think you maybe translated my Afrikaans a bit wrong. I am not choosing a side. I just want you to think about things. Judge not that you be not judged.

    Look at the following joke that you made: Self made prophet: $100
    Self made rabbi blankie: $300
    Self made church empire: $6,000,000
    On hands and knees eating grass and sand around William Branham’s grave in the USA: Priceless

    Can you see the sarcasm and mockery? Do you think that this is the spirit of Christ in you? Do you think after this that people can say wow Deborah is from God? Do you think that this shows your Christian character?

  • Frans Goosen

    Deborah

    Why did you delete my post to you? You have nothing to hide?

    [EDITED: AS THIS IS STUFF YOU SAID IN YOUR PREVIOS COMMENT WHICH I DID NOT DELETE- below are extra comments]

    Do you know Kobus van Rensburg? Do you only judge him on what he teaches or do you know him as person? Did you ever spent time with him to get to know his character?

    Now I will quote you (Deborah)

    1). Kobus is NOT Christian, and until he gets on his knees before Jesus Christ and repents, he has no hope.
    2). my article exposing Kobus as a false teacher who is spiritually KILLING people who go to him and seek his snake-oil.

    Are you God? Do you think it is appropriate for you as Christian to be God and judge other people if you don’t even know them personally?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Frans

    >> Who appointed you to decide what teachings is false and what is true?

    1 Timothy 4:1 ESV “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons”

    Do you not know the difference between what is true and false Frans?

    >> please remember to bring your letter of appointment on the day of your judgment!!!!

    2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,”

    >> What great things did you do for God? Do you have your own church? Do you preach the gospel? In what way are God using you that you can even think you are special enough to say I can discern the spirits? What have you done for God?

    1 Corinthians 4:6-7 6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another. 7
    For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

    >> Judge not that you be not judged.

    James 3:10-12 “From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water. ”

    >> Can you see the sarcasm and mockery? Do you think that this is the spirit of Christ in you?

    Yes I can see the sarcasm and mockery from you… 1 Peter 4:16 ” Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. ”

    >> I am not choosing a side.

    Or course you are not Frans, this is why you accuse me by defending a false teacher.

    2 Corinthians 6:14-18 “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”

    You want to silence a person who cares to warn others that Kobus van Rensburg is a liar and leading people to hell.

    Revelation 3:15-16 God said: “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.”

    >> Look at the following joke that you made: Self made prophet: $100
    Self made rabbi blankie: $300
    Self made church empire: $6,000,000
    On hands and knees eating grass and sand around William Branham’s grave in the USA: Priceless

    >> On hands and knees eating grass and sand around William Branham’s grave in the USA: Priceless

    This is to show how gullable people are that they eat the rotten food that is fed to them. BECAUSE they DO NOT READ their BIBLES.

    Deuteronomy 18:10-12 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. ”

    1 Chronicles 10:14 “He did not seek guidance from the Lord. Therefore the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse. “

  • Elmarie A

    Frans Goosen

    Who appointed you to decide what teachings is false and what is true? God? If so please remember to bring your letter of appointment on the day of your judgment!!!!

    No one needs an appointed as we have the Word of God to test and prove all things by. Where does it say in the Scriptures we need a letter of appointment for the day of judgement? Yikes what have you been taught Frans??

    Do you have a Bible? Then read it and study it please!!!!

    Do you know that we are Commanded to test all things to see whether they are from God. Well Kobus was tested and failed.

    John 3:19
    The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21
    But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.

    1 John 4:1
    BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    Kobus van Rensburg is a false prophet full stop.

  • Frans Goosen

    Deborah

    Still why do you think you are right? 1 Tim4:1 “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons”

    What if you are the deceitful spirits? Please note that I am not judging I am only asking?

    I can see that you know your bible very well and can quote a lot of scripture so can the devil. Please note that I am not judging I am only asking?

    WHAT MAKES YOU DIVRENT ? What if you have a deceitful spirit in you that tries to break down Kobus ministry? Why should we believe you what makes you different? What have you achieved in life?

    What if you are not spiritually mature enough to understand Kobus teachings? Maybe it is to deep for you? Maybe you are not on a spiritual level to understand it.

    Lets come back to the basics: Each person must discern for himself what is of God and what is not, test the spirits.

    You are going to bring judgment over yourself with this website, if you think Kobus is a false teacher keep it to yourself and don’t listen to him.

    This will be my last correspondence to you on your website because I wont be visiting it anymore. If you wish to speak to me you have my email address please mail me.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Frans

    >> Do you know Kobus van Rensburg? Do you only judge him on what he teaches or do you know him as person? Did you ever spent time with him to get to know his character?

    If you read the following articles you will clearly see he preaches a gospel that CONTRADICTS the Word of God.
    Character means nothing. I am sure you are a nice person too.

    >> 1). Kobus is NOT Christian, and until he gets on his knees before Jesus Christ and repents, he has no hope.

    1 Timothy 2:1-15 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, …

    1 John 2:1-29 “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: …. ”

    >> 2). my article exposing Kobus as a false teacher who is spiritually KILLING people who go to him and seek his snake-oil.

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”

    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

    What does the Bible tell us to do with people like Kobus who has openly said numerous times that he is a little god and preaches teaching that man will become immortal on earth because they have a form of godliness.

    Genesis 3:1-4 “Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil

    2 Timothy 3:5 “Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. ”

    2 Thessalonians 3:6 “Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. ”

    >> Do you think it is appropriate for you as Christian to be God and judge other people if you don’t even know them personally?

    We do not judge another’s sin as commanded by the Word of God. But we are to judge false teaching and twisted gospels against the Word of God.

    So, I suggest you stop judging me.

    Do you accept false teaching, are you happy that people’s spiritual lives are being ruined because of false doctrines that Kobus teaches? Do you want people led astray when the Bible says:

    Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.”

    Should you leave people alone so that the blind lead the blind to hell? Would you allow this to happen to your OWN FAMILY? Or will you try your best to protect them from harm?

    Matthew 15:1 “Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

    Regarding boasting and huge mega churches and large gatherings where the preacher proclaims to lead the group on behalf of God.

    Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

    In general the bible says that:

    Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

    EXPOSING FALSE TEACHING / WARNING OTHERS / APPEALING TO OTHERS TO BE CAREFUL

    Romans 16:17-18 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

    Jude 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    If Kobus does not stop what he is doing:

    2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    And to you Frans:

    Galatians 1:6-9
    I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Frans

    Oh I forgot to attach the links to Kobus’ false teaching that you want to defend so much:

    http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/06/kobus-van-rensburg-self-anointed-prophet/
    http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/26/tb-joshua-false-miracle-man/
    http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/26/t-b-joshua-the-deceiver/

    Frans, why don’t you know your bible well? Maybe something for you to think about.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Frans

    Um, the Holy Spirit that abides in us is what makes a person spiritually MATURE to understand what is the TRUTH vs what is false. If you don’t know the difference Frans, then go study the bible and you too will beable to discern RIGHT from wrong.

    After you have read all the EVIDENCE that Kobus does not preach the Word of God but another deceptiful doctrine, then can I ask nicely that you go read this:

    Understand that I would never pressure you into reading your Bible, following lies is something you chose to do because you do not love the TRUTH.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Frans

    On more thing. If you are ever robbed, please do not go and report the crime to the police so that people may be warned there is a criminal out there that will harm people. Ok? But if you do decided to practice what YOU PREACH, that is ok too :)

  • Elmarie A

    Frans

    Lets come back to the basics: Each person must discern for himself what is of God and what is not, test the spirits.

    It does not stop there wake up please!!!!!

    Ezekiel 33 (Amplified Bible)
    3If when he sees the sword coming upon the land, he blows the trumpet and warns the people,
    4Then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
    5He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning shall save his life.
    6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, he is taken away in and for his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.

    Mark 13:22
    False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and [work] miracles to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (those God has chosen out for Himself).

    Revelation 17:14
    They will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings–and those with Him and on His side are chosen and called [elected] and loyal and faithful followers.

  • Robbie

    Now this was good reading!… just 2 nights!

    Is Frans what we would call. a hit and runner
    or a hitter and runner…

    I live near Kobus. will go and see how he is.
    I am serious Debs

  • Believer

    If I may, please…
    If you have been following politics, you should know what is going on in our land. Are you aware that on genocide watch, we are said to be at level 5 out of 8? We don’t need siener van rensburg to point this out to us.

    God has blessed me with 3 beautiful children, he has entrusted their lives to me. I choose to take care of them to the best of my ability. God has blessed me with a brain, I choose to use it!
    I will in times of strife, do my utmost to keep them safe from harm. I don’t think God would be happy, if I put my kids in danger. Rape, mutilation, sodomy…
    Whatever siener said is of no consequence to me…all the signs are there.
    You can’t pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ and expect Him to do all the work, you work as a team…not so?
    I will make sure that my kids are safe! To the best of my ability…
    Did Moses not lead the people? Did God not part the Red Sea?
    Today’s technology is wonderful! Surely we don’t need to be spoonfed?
    God’s people did not stay behind, they fled…from the onslaught…
    Forget what siener said for one moment…wake up and smell the roses.
    1Peter 5:8-9 ; Matthew 8:13 ; Deuteronomy 30:19

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Believer

    I think you missed a very important point in your comment. You reply soley on Jesus Christ for Him to look after you and protect you? And oh course you will protect your kids, even from people who claim to be Chrisitan but are not.

    Read the Bible, grow close to Jesus Christ, teach your children about Jesus and who He is. You are God’s witness to your family.

  • Elmarie A

    Robbie
    <Is Frans what we would call. a hit and runner
    or a hitter and runner…<

    Hmmm lets wait and see……..

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Robbie

    >> I live near Kobus. will go and see how he is.
    I am serious Debs

    Please do! See if you can ask him for an interview :)

    Is Frans what we would call. a hit and runner
    or a hitter and runner…

    A hitter and runner. Fortunately I was wearing the full armour of God :)

  • Elmarie A

    Deborah (Discerning the World)

    A hitter and runner. Fortunately I was wearing the full armour of God :)

    Eco eco yes!!

  • Elmarie A

    Believer

    We are to place all our trust in Jesus who is coming to fetch His children. We are not to worry about things of this world because Satan is prowling this world like a roaring lion and it is christians who are his main target.

    Matthew 17:20
    He said to them, Because of the littleness of your faith [that is, your lack of firmly relying trust]. For truly I say to you, if you have faith [ that is living] like a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, Move from here to yonder place, and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

    1 Peter 5:8
    Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [ in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour.

    1 John 4:4-6 (Amplified Bible)

    4Little children, you are of God [you belong to Him] and have [already] defeated and overcome them [the agents of the antichrist], because He Who lives in you is greater (mightier) than he who is in the world.

    5They proceed from the world and are of the world; therefore it is out of the world [its [a]whole economy morally considered] that they speak, and the world listens (pays attention) to them.

    6We are [children] of God. Whoever is learning to know God [progressively to perceive, recognize, and understand God by observation and experience, and to [b]get an ever-clearer knowledge of Him] listens to us; and he who is not of God does not listen or pay attention to us. By this we know (recognize) the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.

    Did Moses not lead the people?

    Yes he did off course but because only God gave Moses the way to lead the People. Remember those people where the Jews/Israelites. We are not Jews/Israelites. I hope you understand this point.

    Believer ? Do you believe that only white people are Gods chosen people??

  • cassandra

    hey! have you heard that, that kobus you claiming to be a false prophet is completely healed from cancer and anyway which miracles have you done?

  • Elmarie A

    cassandra

    Hmmmmm have you read all the comments here? If not please do you should find a couple of answers to your comment.

    I will leave you with this as an answer from the Bible.

    1 John 4:1-6 (Amplified Bible)

    1 John 4
    1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    2By this you may know (perceive and recognize) the Spirit of God: every spirit which acknowledges and confesses [the fact] that Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [actually] has become man and has come in the flesh is of God [has God for its source];

    3And every spirit which does not acknowledge and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh [but would [a]annul, destroy, [b]sever, disunite Him] is not of God [does not proceed from Him]. This [[c]nonconfession] is the [spirit] of the antichrist, [of] which you heard that it was coming, and now it is already in the world.

    4Little children, you are of God [you belong to Him] and have [already] defeated and overcome them [the agents of the antichrist], because He Who lives in you is greater (mightier) than he who is in the world.

    5They proceed from the world and are of the world; therefore it is out of the world [its [d]whole economy morally considered] that they speak, and the world listens (pays attention) to them.

    6We are [children] of God. Whoever is learning to know God [progressively to perceive, recognize, and understand God by observation and experience, and to [e]get an ever-clearer knowledge of Him] listens to us; and he who is not of God does not listen or pay attention to us. By this we know (recognize) the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.
    ___________________________________________________________

    False prophet – a Christian perspective
    God has no tolerance for false prophets–people who preach in His name, but who do not truly speak for God. Liars and deceivers of this nature have no place in the church.
    http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2014:14-15&version=NIV
    Topics: False Prophet
    All Topics

    Related Bible Verses
    Jeremiah 14:14-15 (KJV)

    Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

    Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine…

    Please read your Bible cassandra

  • Karl

    [EDITED by DTW: I have not approved your comments because all you have to say are insults – as the saying goes, “if you have nothing nice and constructive to say, don’t say it”]

  • Karl

    Just what have you been saying so long.
    Remember you are forgiven!

    [EDITED: Yes Karl, we are all forgiven when we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour, but when we err we need to ask forgiveness again other wise you land up where Kobus is now. Btw, Kobus had Chemo therapy did’t he? And let’s say he was healed as he claims; remember Satan does heal too, he will give an an illness and then take it away. please go read this article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/06/kobus-van-rensburg-self-anointed-prophet/

  • Karl

    [EDITED: Karl, Look, I understand that you think Kobus is the best in the west and quite frankly you can believe what you want. If you want to make Kobus your IDOL, then worship him as the little god he say he is.]

  • James

    Deborah (author of this article), it is a hard reality that in the modern age, the written word has similar powers (if not more) than the spoken word. If you really are a Christian and study the Bible (meditating on the Word), then you’ll guard your tongue (and your keyboard) better. It’s unwise to judge those willing to put themselves in the firing range to impart a bit of wisdom. When will this sensationalism end?

  • Gerhard

    Deborah, kry n lewe vrou!!! Hou jou opinies vir jouself, as jy voel die man is n fals profeet dan is dit jou probleem. Kry jouself in die hemel en laat hom dit self uitwerk! Die man is siek, en as sy gemeente vir hom wil bid los hulle. Het jy nie beter dinge om jou mee besig te hou nie!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    James

    Deborah (author of this article), it is a hard reality that in the modern age, the written word has similar powers (if not more) than the spoken word. If you really are a Christian and study the Bible (meditating on the Word), then you’ll guard your tongue (and your keyboard) better. It’s unwise to judge those willing to put themselves in the firing range to impart a bit of wisdom. When will this sensationalism end?

    When will it end? When you open your eyes.

    PS, stop judging me

  • Elmarie A

    Gerhard

    Deborah, kry n lewe vrou!!! Hou jou opinies vir jouself, as jy voel die man is n fals profeet dan is dit jou probleem. Kry jouself in die hemel en laat hom dit self uitwerk! Die man is siek, en as sy gemeente vir hom wil bid los hulle. Het jy nie beter dinge om jou mee besig te hou nie!

    Aaai Gerhard kry jy nie skaam nie? Weet jy wat dit beteken om te kan onderskei tussen waarheid en leun. Jy weet uit die aard uit niks van die Woord van God nie, want n mens kan jou self nie net in die hemel kry nie. Weet jy dit? Dink jy regtig mens moet net almal glo wat die Woord preek? Wat dan van al die waarskuwings in die Woord oor valse profete en leeraars?

    Nee wat Gerhard ek dink jy moet jou Bybel begin lees en bid dat die Heilige Gees vir jou help om die Woord te openbaar.

    Jou hele komentaar wys vir almal dat daar nie vrug by jou is nie.

    Kyk maar na die volgende skrif asb.
    Galatians 5:22-26

    22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21
    But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.

    Matthew 7:15
    Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

    Mark 13:22
    False Christs (Messiahs) and false prophets will arise and show signs and [work] miracles to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (those God has chosen out for Himself).

    1 Corinthians 10:7
    Do not be worshipers of false gods as some of them were, as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink [the sacrifices offered to the golden calf at Horeb] and rose to sport (to dance and give way to jesting and hilarity).

    2 Corinthians 11:13
    For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).

    Galatians 5:9
    A little leaven (a slight inclination to error, or a few false teachers) leavens the whole lump [it perverts the whole conception of faith or misleads the whole church].

    2 John 1:7
    For many imposters (seducers, deceivers, and false leaders) have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge (confess, admit) the coming of Jesus Christ (the Messiah) in bodily form. Such a one is the imposter (the seducer, the deceiver, the false leader, the antagonist of Christ) and the antichrist.

    Sterkte Gerhard

  • Elmarie A

    Gerhard
    Jy se aan Deborah :

    as jy voel die man is n fals profeet dan is dit jou probleem

    Jou stelling is ongegrond en n leun.
    Dit is nie n persoonlike probleem nie maar wel n feit dat ons juis valse profete soos Kobus van Rensburg moet “expose” en die teen mense waarsku soos in om die trompet te blaas vir die wereld om te hoor en uit basuin. Dit is n sonde om sulke leraars soos Kobus van Rensburg te beskerm want hy mislei mense en baie mense daarby gese , baie mense verval onder sy demoniese invloed. Ek het al van sy dienste op opnames gesien en was geskok oor sy “antics” Nee wat Gerhard die man is eenvoudig net demonies.

    Mense soos Kobus is “aangetrek” in skaap klere en as jy hom ondersoek en toets is hy n wolf soos ons lees in Matthew 7:15.

    Kobus van Resnburg doen hom voor as n Apostel en in werlikheid is hy n valse Apostel soos ons dan lees van in 2 Corinthians 11:13

    Matthew 7:15
    Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

    2 Corinthians 11:13
    For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).

  • Leon

    Dit is duidelik dat hierdie land gebuk gaan onder werkloosheid. Ek glo almal wat hierdie man so bespreek te lui is om te gaan werk soek. Julle het beslis niks anders om te doen nie.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Leon

    >> Dit is duidelik dat hierdie land gebuk gaan onder werkloosheid. Ek glo almal wat hierdie man so bespreek te lui is om te gaan werk soek. Julle het beslis niks anders om te doen nie.

    Actually no, we all have full time jobs, this is done inbetween all our daily chores. We make a living by working a decent days work. We don’t sell the Gospel of Jesus Christ to make a living. If you can’t multitask, then don’t make your problems ours.

  • Leon

    Hoe klein kan jy nog wees? Iemand hoof nie Godsdiens te verkoop vir ‘n lewe om sulke kinderagtige twak as waaroor julle stry raak te sien nie. As jy ‘n vaste bwerk het, het jy baie tyd om te mors. Ek dink jou baas moet iemand kry was meer produktief is en nie sy tyd so mors waarvoor hy jou moet betaal nie. As jy in jou eie tyd op die E Pos besig is, kan jy gerus iets anders kry om jou mee besig te hou.

    Ek het gelukkig nie meer nodig om te werk nie. My VADER het my geseën met ‘n gawe om te sorg dat ek genoeg kon bymekaar maak. Probeer gerus om dit liewer te doen as om ander mense te bespreek en af te kraak. Jy gaan niks daaruit kry nie.

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Hi Leon jy het dan ook hier kom skryf.lol lol Het jy werk? Soos Deborah gese het eko ek haar woorde.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Leon

    >> Hoe klein kan jy nog wees? Iemand hoof nie Godsdiens te verkoop vir ‘n lewe om sulke kinderagtige twak as waaroor julle stry raak te sien nie

    Um, Leon, is this not what Kobus van Rensburg does? Sell the gospel as he makes a rich living off of people’s gullibility? You came and insulted us by telling us we should get day jobs. So we answered your question and now you come back with another rediculous reply.

    Enough already. You are a hyprocrite, stop judging us as you so eagerly point fingers at us for warning people about false teachers. If you want to carry on following lies, then carry on. What you chose to do is soley your choice. I am not here to make you believe the truth. I tell the truth and you do with it what you want.

    Now run along and go do what ever it is you do best else where…judge others.

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Sterkte met jou koningkryk van rykdom wat jy op aarde vir jou vergader het. Ek will niks te doene he met rykdom op aarde nie dit gaan nie saam die dag as Jesus sy kinders kom haal nie. Onthou Jesus weet wat is in elkeen se hart.

    Leon lees jou Bybel en leer die Woord as jy weet wat dit is asb. Hou op met jou ongegronde beledigings asb.

    Galatians 5:22-26
    22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

  • Leon

    [EDITED: Ag Leon, we have had people ask us the same questions you are asking us a good hundred times already. I think the most annoying question for me is when someone says “Hoeveel siele het julle al vir Jesus gewen.” (English: How many souls have you won for Jesus). In fact I think you and Harry need to get together and go bowling. I ask nicely that instead of making us repeat ourselves over and over and over again that you go and read all 5500+ comments and 250+ articles on this blog as I GUARANTEE you that all the questions you can possible come up with have ALREADY been asked by someone and been answered biblically. And our answers wont change no matter how hard you try. No matter what question you can come up with, you can even spiritual warfare us, walk around my blog 8 times, anoint your pc screen with oil, call down fire, hop on one leg for 24 hours, blow a shofar until you turn blue – it’s NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY IMPACT.]

  • Robbie

    Elmarie.. does it really rain on the wicked too?

    Yea yea!!.of course i am still here!

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Het julle al iets van Neville Norden gehoor.Ek sal graag jul mening wil hoor omtrent hom en sy kerk, Die Lewende Woord, in Pretoria

    Oor Lewende Woord hmmm ons familie was daar gewees totdat ons deur die leiding en genade van die Heilige Gees daar weg gelei is. Dit is ook n kerk vol valshede Jammer om dit vir jou te se. Leon as jy onderskeidings vermoe het sal jy weet waarvan ek praat. Ons moet kan onderskie tussen die waarheid en die leun. Ons leer dit in God se Woord. Vir elke leun is daar die waarheid wat ons moet vind en ons kan dit net vind deur die Woord en leiding van die Heilige Gees.

    Neville Norden word so omring deur sy ‘Joels Army Wariors” soos ek dit noem. Ons as gewone kerk lede het geen toegang tot Neville nie want hy is eenvoudig te besig met sy profetiese skool ens ens om , om te sien na sy kerk lede op n persoonlike basis. Neville Norden is on bereikbaar vir die gewone mens. Lewende Woord is n Groot kerk en bedien die “Hoe klas rykes” soos jy sal lees by my link ondertoe.

    Dit is n Groot kerk met Lights, Camera, Action, Focus on the man at the glass pulpit. Daar word nie fokus op Jesus geplaas nie en ook nie gefokus op die Bybel nie, hulle konsetreer baie op “Miracles, Signs and Wonders”. Hulle hiet en gebied sommer die Heilige Gees om te kom en gaan soos hulle dit verkies. Die Heilige Gees woon en elke christen wat wedergebore is dit is n God gegewe geskenk van God af as ons wedergebore word. Dit is absurd om te dink die Heilige Gees woon in n masiewe kerk gebou !!

    O ja Neville Norden se as jy nie in tonge kan praat nie dan is jy ONKUNDIG!!!!! Lees dit hier http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/submitted/etd-11102006-164248/unrestricted/03chapter8.pdf hoofstuk 8 bladsy 183 . Dink net bietjie mooi is dit Bybels?. Ek kon nog nerens in die Woord kry dat Jesus of sy Apostels dit ooit het gese het vir die christine of by Pinkster nie.

    Neville Norden glo ook nie dat daar nie n wegraping gaan wees nie want sy preke handel meestal oor “the Kingdom Now” teologie. MAW ons maak nou die wereld gereed vir die koms van Jesus waar Jesus dan vir 1000 jaar gaan regeer saam met Sy kinders. So asof die mense dinge uit God se hande wil neem en vir God dinge wil besluit en dan volgens menslike besluite te wil voorberei, dit is absurd.

    Ek lees hier van die wegraping en verstaan dit net soos God vir ons se in :
    1 Thessalonians 4 (Amplified Bible)15 For this we declare to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede [into His presence] or have any advantage at all over those who have previously fallen asleep [in Him [i]in death]. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord. 18Therefore
    comfort and encourage one another with these words.

    Leon dit is n wonderlike vooruitsig is dit nie!!!! God is so n wonderlike genadige God, n Almagtige God en sal Sy belofte aan Sy kinders nakom. Ek kan net nie verstaan hoekom die meerderheid kerke nie die goeie nuus aan God se kinders verkondig nie. Wow wat n belofte van God om te kan verkondig.

    By Lewende woord is jy net nog n nommer op hulle data basis en maandelike by draes is van uiterste belang. Streng word daar elke sondag gese hoe belangrik dit is dat as jy gee en sal jy onvang en hoe meer jy gee hoemeer sal jy ontvang. Maar ek het dit anders as jy gee vir die kerk of armes se God se woord dan die een hand nie moet weet wat nie ander hand doen nie en dit moet uit jou hart uitkom.
    Matthew 6:3
    But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

    Ons was daar vir omtrent 8 maande en was nooit nooit een keer gekontak om ons te verwelkom as nuwe lede nie.

    Ons was gelei deur die Groot genade van God om weg te draai van Lewende Woord af en ek se daagliks dankie aan God vir sy genade.

    Leon ons is tans in die tyd van die Groot Wegval en nie Oplewing/Revival soos al die vals predikers verkondig nie. Lees gerus ww.bibleguidence.co.za ook vir Bybelse bewyse daar is baie artikels en Bybelse bewyse wat jou beter sal laat verstaan oor valse predikers wat n ander Evangelie verkondig.

    Ek wil vir jou se ek het Niks teen Neville Norden nie en ek het liefde vir hom in my hart, MAAR ek haat die sonde waarby hy betrokke is. Dit is ook die geval met Kobus van Rensburg en al die wereldse VALSE Predikers en glo my daar is werklik baie so baie die wereld is vervuil.
    Romans 12:9
    [Let your] love be sincere (a real thing); hate what is evil [loathe all ungodliness, turn in horror from wickedness], but hold fast to that which is good.

    Onthou Satan se hy sal hom voor doen n Engel van die Lig. En Satan werk juis binne in die kerke. Satan soek nie nie sondaars nie want hy het die sondaars alreeds in sy hande. Satan sal juis die kerk van God aanval, want sy doel is om ons weg te lei van Jesus af. Die ander belangrike Bybelse leering is dat daar op verskeie pleke in die Woord gewaarskuwings oor valse profete en vals leeringe. Dit is dan ook waarteen die Heilige Gees ons waarsku. En weet jy die valse kerke sal nie sommer die verse aan haal en preek oor nie en as hulle wel preek daar oor neem hulle weg en pas dan die Woord aan om by hulle te pas.

    1 Timothy 4:1-2 (Amplified Bible)
    1BUT THE [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach, 2 Through the hypocrisy and pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared (cauterized),
    2 Corinthians 11:12-16 (Amplified Bible)

    12But what I do, I will continue to do, [for I am determined to maintain this independence] in order to cut off the claim of those who would like [to find an occasion and incentive] to claim that in their boasted [mission] they work on the same terms that we do. 13 For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).,14 And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light; 15 So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Robbie

    Ah there you are. Alan needs some to talk to about Rugby. Me being girlie and all, I feel I just wont be able to express the passion as well as you oak (trees) can. He is English, Kiwi and an Aussie, forgive him in advance for this and then dialogue the emerging way ahahaha.

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Elmarie jy ken lyk my ook jou Bybel. Ek ken Gal. 5 baie goed. Dit gaan oor die vrug van die GEES.

    Leon dit is net met die genade van God en die leiding van die Heilige Gees dat ek elke dag die Woord leer en ineem en ondek wat se wonderlike skatte in die Woord van God vir ons agter gelaat is toe Jesus na Sy Vader toe is om vir Sy kinders n plekkie te gaan voorberei in die Hemel. Ek sal in my hele leeftyd nooit kan se ek ken die Bybel nie want ek leer elke dag en bid dat ek die vooreg sal he tot aan die einde van my dae as dit God behaag om my te spaar. Ek dank en prys God ook elke dag dat hy vir my die woord openbaar met die hulp van die Heilige Gees.

    Ek is verbly om te wet jy weet van die vrug van die Gees in Gal 5.

    Ek voel net julle is besig om Kobus uitmekaar te trek en dit wil vir my voorkom of nie die “guts” het om homself te gaan konfronteer nie.

    Leon as jy mooi gaan lees op die kommentaare wat mense lewer hier wat nie saam met die blog stem nie, sal jy kan sien dat hulle net gewaarsku word teen dit wat vals is waaraan hulle in glo. Kobus is n valse profeet en dit is ooglopend as jy gaan ondersoek instel en sy bediening van nader bekyk staan dit soos n paal bo water uit. Dit mag ook nie van die kerk weer hou nie ons moet die basuin blaas soos ons gese word in die woord.

    Hoeveel siele het julle al vir Jesus gewen.

    Leon n mens se werk vir Jesus begin by ou eie huis en dan verder na familie en dan na vriende en dan soos mens rondbeweeg tussen vreemde mense asook jou werksplek. Verder vekondig ek die Goeie Nuus die Woord van Jesus daagliks aan die mense wie God op my pad plaas. Ek is geseent om te kan rondreis vir my werk en ek werk nie vir n werkgewer nie. Geen mens kan siele vir Jesus wen behalwe as dit die wil van God is nie. Mense soos Kobus verkondig n valse evangelie wat juis mense verlei deur om te se ons gaan deur werke te doen in die hemel kom en ander valshede. Lees asb die artikels van Pof Johan Malan by bibleguidence.co.za en jy sal moonlik verstaan en dit is my gebed dat jy dit verstaan. Ek hou nie boek van hoeveel mense ek van Jesus en die Woord vertel of verkondig nie. Doen jy dit om te tel?? Ek maak ook nie aanspraak dat ek soveel en soveel mense vir Jesus gewen het nie want ek glo God weet want hy ken elkeen van ons se harte. Ons mag nie “boast” oor sulke dinge nie dit is n sonde.

    Mark 16:15
    And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole human race].

    Omtrent my rykdom, wil ek jou net graag reghelp. Ek het genoem dat ek geseën is daarmee en dus nie nodig het om ‘n werkgewer se tyd te gebruik om ander mense uit te trek nie.

    Weet jy Leon ek is ook geseen en bepaal my eie werk tyd. Ek moet se ek verkies bo alles om vir Jesus te werk.

    As julle eerder jul energie gebruik om iemand, dalk ‘n kollega ‘n friend of iemand naby jou om op die regte pad te kom.

    Leon DIE Groot opdrag van Jesus is om die woord te verkondig daagliks, uurliks, tydig en ontydig. En ek gehoorsaam daagliks en poog deur gebed om sterk te staan. Gaan kyk net asb na hoeveel mense ons bereik ook deur hierdie skrywes. Ek tel nie sluke goed nie want ons word nerens in die Woord gese om siele te tel nie. Net God almagtig alleen kan dit doen, want hy ken elke kind wat na hom toe kom se hart persoonlik.

    As die waarheid dan na beledigings klink, dan dink ek het jy regtig iets om aan te dink

    Leon die waarheid kan nooit na n belediging klink nie. Jesus ken ons elkeen se hart individueel en geen mens kan se hy ken n ander se hart nie. Ons het wel die Vrugte van die Gees soos in Gal 5 waar aan ons, ons mede chirstene kan ken, maar nie hulle harte nie. Die waarhied van die saak is dat daar n ander valse Evangelie vekondig word in die tye waar ons nou leef en ons moet waak en bid daarteen.

    Galatians 1:9
    As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!

    Galatians 1:7
    Not that there is [or could be] any other [genuine Gospel], but there are [obviously] some who are troubling and disturbing and bewildering you [ with a different kind of teaching which they offer as a gospel] and want to pervert and distort the Gospel of Christ (the Messiah) [into something which it absolutely is not]. 1 Peter 1:14
    [Live] as children of obedience [to God]; do not conform yourselves to the evil desires [that governed you] in your former ignorance [when you did not know the requirements of the Gospel].

    Vrede en Groete in Jesus naam

  • Elmarie A

    Robbie

    Rain is one of the most beautiful elements God created :-) and he is so merciful ain’t He. Amen!!!

    Now you got me lol lol huh what do ya mean maybe i’m just tired to understand. :-)

  • Leon

    Elmarie, ek is so gelukkig om te kan sê dat ek in ‘n baie klein AGS gemeentetjie is, waar ons almal mekaar ken, lief het en stig. Ons is maar ongeveer 36 gesinne in die gemeente.

    Ek sal graag met jou wil sit en gesels oor die dinge wat regtig saak maak in die lewe. (Godsdiens) Ek glo ons kan lank en lekker gesels daaroor.

    Jy sê jy reis baie rond. As jy ooit in Sabie omgewing kom is jy welkom om my te laat weet en ons sal jou met groot graagte ontmoed.

    Ek het Neville genoem omdat ek van hom weet deurdat van my familie in sy kerk is. Ek het hom geleer ken toe ek nog baie jonk was en in die wêreld geleef het. Hy het toe nog sy Gym in Kerkstraat in Pretoria gehad en hy self ook nog jonk was.

    Ek weet nie veel van sy leering nie, daarom het ek oor hom gevra. Dankie vir jou antwoord omtrent hom.

  • Robbie

    Debs. Please let Alan Mail me.
    You serious about the rugby talk?

    Elmarie… don’t write and yawn at the same time!!!.lol

    ‘mat 5:45 for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
    dit was mos die topic?

  • Robbie

    Elmarie…
    EK bedoel om te se… Leon! – rykdom is nie altyd ‘n blessing nie.

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Ek hoor wat jy se oor dat jy geluking is oor julle N klein AGS kerkie IS. Dit is inderdaad my gebed dat daar nog nie dwaal leer by julle in geseil het nie.

    Hmm Leon dan val julle onder die AFM/AGS van DR ISAK SCHALK VAN DER MERWE BURGER of net Dr Izak Burger soos ek hom ken by naam. Neville Norden en Dr Izak Burger het “close ties met mekaar”. Izak preek ook by LW. Ek ken sy leeringe ek het paar dvds van hom en hmmm ek is nie gemaklik met van sy leeringe nie. Agh weet jy al die valse predikers is almal op een of ander manier verbind aan mekaar. Die een groot ingeweefte mat is inderdaad so groot en is net soos n groot Tsunami waar die golwe se tussen posses al hoe nader en nader kruip aan mekaar.

    Leon as ek mag wil ek graag aanbeveel kry vir julle klein gemeentetjie die volgende DVD van Justin Peters die dvd naam is A Call to Discernment sy webtuiste is http://www.justinpeters.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=7 . Ek het ook n SA kontak persoon wat jou moonlik kan verskaf met dvd asook die Augustine Bookroom en Pta(google die naam). Jy gaan ook baie inligting kry op DIE blog se artikels. Ek wil jou se ek is baie dankbaar vir die werk wat Deborah (DTW) hier verig deur om waarskuwings en gevare vir ons uit tewys.

    Daar moet mense wees wat die trompet blaas en waarsku lees maar gerus Esegiel en die Nuwe Testament is vol waarskuwings. Dit sal nie gedoen word by die vals kerke nie hulle Sus eerder die mense aan die slaap met hulle valshede soos “M S & W” . Die naaste wat die vals kerke kom aan die trompet blaas is om die Shofar so nou en dan te blaas soos by Lewende Woord of op GODtv gebeur en dan se hulle vir jou jy moet luister na die mooi klanke.

    Ek wil vir jou se die dvd’s het ons baie insig gegee oor waarom ons in die moelike tye is waarin ons as ware christene ons tans bevind. Ons is inderdaad in tye van die groot wegval. Die groot oplewings soos die vals predikers op aanspraak maak is totaal vals en nie Bybels nie. Daar is nog baie ander dvds en mense wat ek kan aanbeveel maar ek dink tussen Justin Peter dvd en Pof Johan Malan kan julle miskien meer insig kry. Albei gee vir jou Bybelse bewyse wat julle self ook moet gaan toets deur die Woord.

    Leon baie dankie vir die uitnodiging maar ons besoek nie Sabie op ons reise deur die land nie. Ek wil vir jou se ek sal eerder gesels oor wat ons leer in die Woord van God as Godsdiens die woord skrik my af want daar is so baie verskillende soorte Godsdienste soos bv Hinduism. Muslims, Katolieke, Methodiste, agh net te veel ISM’S . Is jy lid van die AGS of is jy n leraar daar. Ek vra maar net as ek mag. Glo jy in tonge praat en wonders en healings?

    Leon jy sal moet werkmaak daarvan om jou familie by LW weg te kry of ten minste vir hulle vertel om te begin toets en onderskeiding te tref tussen die waarheid en die leun . Wat se wereld leef Nevill dan nou in sal mens se? n wereld waar “Miracles, Signs, Healings en Wonders” aan die orde van die dag is. Net soos Izak Burger wat daaraan glo. Dit is my gebed dat jy nie die valshede glo nie.

    Ek weet ook van Neville van daardie dae af want die Gym wat hy gehad het , het n ou vriendin by gewerk en daar was ook n persoon met die naam Lionel wat n vennoot was van Neville en my ou vriendin het eintlik vir hom gewerk.

    Ek wil vir jou se ons moet weet van alle predikers se leeringe en as daar valshede is sal die Woord dit vir mens duidelik uitwys. Dit is baie belangrik dat ons almal toets om te sien of hulle die ware evangelie verkondig EN nie n valse evangelie nie. Galatians 1:9

    1 Timothy 4:1-2
    1BUT THE [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach, 2 Through the hypocrisy and pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared (cauterized),

    2 Corinthians 11:12-16 (Amplified Bible)
    12But what I do, I will continue to do, [for I am determined to maintain this independence] in order to cut off the claim of those who would like [to find an occasion and incentive] to claim that in their boasted [mission] they work on the same terms that we do. 13 For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).,14 And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light; 15 So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds.

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Some info for you about the History of the AFM. Some really SCARY stuff that I found here:

    The birth and history of the church in the 17th century

    A study of the history of the Church, especially since the 17th century, shows clearly how God had prepared the soil for the Pentecostal movement.

    Since the Reformation in the 16th century, the Pietists, Wesleyanism, the second Evangelical awakening, the Holiness Movement and the Zionist Movement of John Alexander Dowie, all played roles to establish a climate to create the “fullness of time” for the Pentecostal Movement to start.

    What happened in the United States had an equivalent in South Africa. The cradle for Pentecost to start in this country was clearly prepared by God during the last decades of the 19th century. The 1860 revival in the Dutch Reformed Church, Dr Andrew Murray, the local Zionist Movement and the problems after the second South African War, all clearly interlocked, prepared an atmosphere and climate for the Pentecostal Movement to take off.

    The Role of John G Lake and Thomas Hezmalhalch
    These two American evangelists were used by God to play a prominent role in the establishment of the AFM. Let it immediately be said that they did not start pentecostalism in South Africa.

    When they came to South Africa they found a number of people in various parts of the country who already had the Pentecostal experience, but they did not understand it.

    Lake and Hezmalhalch were used by God to unite those who already had the experience and to give impetus, momentum and direction to the work. They were mightily used by God to demonstrate spiritual gifts.

    A few remarks on the lives of Lake and Hezmalhalch prior to their ministry in South Africa are appropriate.

    John G Lake in America
    Born on March 18, 1870 in Ontario, Canada, he was one of 16 children. Eight died early. Trained as a Methodist preacher, he entered the business world and did well for himself. He married Jenny Stevens, who soon after became chronically ill.

    It was through the ministry of John Alexander Dowie that divine healing touched this family. After witnessing a number of miraculous healings in his own family and home, Lake himself was led into the healing ministry.

    After becoming a Zionist and spending a few years (1901-1904) in Dowie’s Zion City, he felt the urge to go into a full-time evangelistic and healing ministry.

    He left Zion City and joined forces with Thomas Hezmalhalch. He was baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

    Thomas Hezmalhalch in America
    He was born on October 5, 1847 in Paterson, New Jersey. Little is known about his early days. As a young man he spent time in England, where he ministered as a preacher of the Wesleyan Methodist Church and married Charlotte Best.

    Back in America, he joined the Holiness Movement. He was baptized in the Holy Spirit and met John G Lake about 1907. They became close friends and co-evangelists in a number of campaigns.

    Lake and Hezmalhalch in South Africa
    In April 1907, Lake decided to go into full-time, independent evangelistic work. “… I locked my office door, disposed of my bank account to various religious and educational institutions, divided my real estate in like manner and appointed … my financial agent, to dispose of everything”.

    Early in 1908 Hezmalhalch and Lake were led by the Spirit to go to South Africa.

    Lake, having distributed what his assets had realised among charities, now had no money, but God supplied the 2000 dollars needed by the group of 13 to go to South Africa. They left Indianapolis on April 1, 1908 and reached Cape Town, via England, on May 14.
    After a few services in Cape Town and a short visit to Pretoria, they felt led by God to settle in Johannesburg.

    An American woman missionary met John G Lake and his family at the station, telling them that during the night, God had told her about their coming to Johannesburg and that she should meet and accommodate them. By 3 pm that day the Lakes were settled in a furnished home!

    The first organized meeting was on May 25, 1908, probably only a day or two after they had arrived in Johannesburg. This date can be accepted as the beginning of the AFM.

    This quotation from Gordon Lindsay about the going of John G Lake to South Africa, provides a good summary: “Let us for a moment consider the phenomenon of Lake’s ministry in South Africa. He went there without funds. Every mile of the journey was a miracle … He depended upon God to supply the money for the trip, and he and his party upon arriving in Africa were without visible means of support. There was no organization nor mission board to back him. From the natural viewpoint, the venture was a perfect setup for failure or perhaps disaster.

    Dr Lake had made no particular study of the field, did not know the language of the indigenous people. Yet despite all the handicaps that ill-omened the success of the mission, the power of the ministry of Lake and his co-worker, Hezmalhalch, was such that within five years the message they brought had penetrated to the remote areas of South Africa. An apostolic revival broke out of such power that in a short time hundreds of churches and missions were established throughout the land. The secret of the success of these men was of course the fact that they possessed an apostolic ministry in which signs, wonders and miracles were manifested continually.”

    THE MINISTRY OF JOHN G LAKE AND THOMAS HEZMALHALCH IN ESTABLISHING THE AFM
    While Lake and Hezmalhalch came to South Africa as close friends, it is significant that Lake, although more than 22 years his junior, was the more prominent of the two. He had the stronger, leading personality, perhaps a little individualistic, and played the most influential role in establishing the AFM. Let us first take a quick look at the ministry of Thomas Hezmalhalch.

    Thomas Hezmalhalch
    Lake and Hezmalhalch were co-pastors of the mother-church of the AFM, the so-called Central Tabernacle assembly in Bree Street, Johannesburg.

    At the first meeting of the executive council on May 27 1909, Hezmalhalch was elected chairman and first president of the AFM, probably because he was the eldest and more experienced in pentecostal ministry. He held the position for year.
    It was probably the wrong decision to appoint him president, as Lake, the younger of the two, was a born leader and had a stronger personality and ministry.

    In such a relationship where the stronger person has to take a secondary position, friction and tension between the two can sooner or later be expected, as the one in the leadership position may feel threatened. Later developments seem to confirm this view.
    Hezmalhalch, not known as a great preacher, was a gentle and loving person … “his life was a beautiful testimony to the reality of Pentecost”. He loved the Lord and he loved His word. He was a real giant of faith and his ministry was characterised by many outstanding miracles.

    John G Lake
    Burton describes Lake thus: “He was a man of strong, forceful personality, who would have made his way to the fore in any situation.”
    Lindsay writes: “Mr Lake was a strong, rugged character of loving and winning personality, and … he was a rugged individualist, and such persons have a tendency to make enemies as well as devoted friends.”

    The following aspects of his ministry in South Africa are soon to be discussed:

    Lake’s healing and preaching ministry
    “It is an understatement to say that the ministry of John G Lake was unusual” It is “… a story which, perhaps, has had no parallel in the history of missions since the days of the Early Church”.

    Probably the most outstanding characteristic of Lake’s ministry, was his ministry of divine healing. The time he spent with John Alexander Dowie contributed to this. His healing ministry ensured that this ministry became a significant characteristic of the AFM.
    Lake was extremely cautious and responsible in his ministry of divine healing. He realised even then that many sicknesses had a complex, psychological or spiritual origin. He also believed in praying for the sick repeatedly until God answered. Due to this responsible approach, a success rate of 75% crowned his healing ministry in South Africa. He got very upset with evangelists who were irresponsible in their approach and who thought “that it was only proper to pray for the sick once, that they should not be ministered unto a second time.
    “This was Dollar Christianity. Wherever it was practiced and by whom, it is still Dollar Christianity.”

    The healing ministry asked much of Lake. Services often continued till late because of the many people who had come for prayer. His house was often filled with ill people while he continued through the night, praying for one after the other.

    This was possible only because Lake was a man who had an intimate walk with God and who had spent much time in prayer.
    Lake was also a dynamic preacher. His preaching was strongly scripture based. He had the ability to stir faith in the hearts of his audience.

  • Elmarie A

    Leon

    Also please go read here to understand why John G Lake IS a false prophet.

    Swimming in Lake Exaggeration

    John Lake and the Healing rooms

    It is a good thing to pray for people to be healed. We are told to ask and it’s a wonderful thing to see your prayer answered by God. It matters not if one is a ministry, or an individual or a church that would see this take place.

    Some of the names that stand out as healers are Smith Wigglesworth, William Branham and John Lake. To prove much of what they did is sometimes like looking for a quarter in a fog. The stories of these men are can be blurred between truth and fiction. These men are considered to be in their own category of “doing greater works”. We find men such as Kenneth Copeland, Roberts Lairdon, Mike Bickle and many others refer to john Lake as a prime example of exhibiting miraculous healing power, and the stories seem to be never ending. Lake is held in high esteem, as if he is not tainted by any false teaching or practice. But his past reveals otherwise. He is used as an example of modern Pentecostal power and referred to- much like William Branham and other (Pentecostal healers) are, despite the apparent controversies on certain points of false teaching.

    Many have a romantic view of these healers, especially John Lake. Lake is called by some the most powerful healing evangelist of all time- which seems to be a title that should not be given to any man. The Healing Room ministry is based on the teachings of John G. Lake. When tested you will find much of it is NOT based on the Word of God but a man’s wrong interpretation of the word of God.

    Lake was born in Canada March 8, 1870, when he was 16 he moved to the US. He came to faith at a Salvation Army meeting that same year. It is said that he received understanding on healing from an American Indian (John Lake Ministries- http://www.jglm2.atomicshops.com/whoisjglm.html) .

    We are told that eight of his 16 brothers and sisters died of various diseases. Lake was introduced to John Alexander Dowie’s ministry in 1898. It is claimed that he experienced his own miraculous healing of his childhood rheumatoid arthritis, and saw his sister’s cancer and brother’s blood disease under the ministry of Dowie.

    We read that he wanted to bring his sister who was dying to Dowie’s Healing Home in Chicago but it was late, so he telegraphed Dowie pleading for prayer. Dowie telegraphed back: “Hold on to God. I am praying. She will live.” That statement caused Lake to wage a spiritual attack on the power of death to not take another loved one– and we are told within the hour his sister was completely healed.

    Unfortunately there is more than one story on his first wife’s illness being healed. We are told Lake’s wife was healed through Dowie’s prayer of faith. This seems to have happened years before he met Dowie.

    Yet we are told in another story, His new wife also became sick and was on the verge of dying (April 28, 1898) and he stood his ground and would not allow it. His wife of Jennie battled for breath in her final hours when Lake finally put his foot down. He would not tolerate the enemy stealing away the mother of his children. He determined to believe God’s Word as it was revealed to him for her healing and at 9:30 a.m. he contended for her life in prayer upon which she rose up healed, praising the Lord in a loud voice. News then spread of Jennie’s healing, and Lake was sought after for his healing anointing.

    This idea of the Devil claiming his wife is problematic in that believers are under the sovereign care of Jesus, it is he who has the keys of death and hell. No believer will die unless God himself allows it. The book of Job gives us insight on how God may allow the devil to afflict us but it is only by his permission, the Devil is not running around doing whatever he wants, his power and ability has to answer to God first.

    Lake then began a study of divine healing. Lake moved his family to Zion, IL, in 1901, “For the purpose of studying divine healing so that can I learn it and teach it.” Lake learned healing under Alexander Dowie.

    Lake’s involvement with Alexander Dowie is problematic. Dowie’s focus on healing was more than extreme, he insisted that those who prayed to be healed must relinquish their medication for faith. Lake also believed, “…one could only be healed in Dr. Dowie’s Healing Home.” Christian Historical Preservation Society. John G. Lake: A Man of Healing.

    Most downplay the sheer eccentric ministry of Dowie, who had many doctrinal abnormalities. He founded a large commune called Zion City in the North Chicago area in the early 1900s (the real Zion is in Israel). Zion city was to be the “New Jerusalem” and would be the capital of the world. Dowie stated: “the starting point of the restoration, the city from which God would personally direct the affairs of his kingdom.” The Prophet and His Profits, The Century Magazine, Oct. 1902, p. 941). While Lake was there he was learning from him and became an elder in his Zion Catholic Apostolic church. Dowie was a self-proclaimed healer, apostle and prophet who said he came in the spirit of Elijah. In 1901 he even claimed he was Elijah, the restorer, 3 years later told his 1,000 followers in his city to expect the full restoration of apostolic Christianity (much like Peter Wagner’s group today). He believed he was chosen as the first apostle of the end- times church. Dowie went further off theologically as the years went by and established “Divine Healing Homes.” He invited the sick and crippled to come for healing ‘as his private guests. They were to renounce doctors, medication, alcohol, etc. He explained to them that all illness was the work of the devil; their cure would come from God only by his request.

    In 1905 Dowie suffered a stroke which changed everything. By 1906 both his health and following declined, he lost his community of Zion; some say there was financial mismanagement. Dowie died in 1907. The influence of Dowie on Lakes ministry is evident. Because of this, and other held teachings the amount of miraculous acts of this man are brought into question.

    Lake had sought God hard for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tells us that after nine months the power of God come upon him (1907). This is a wrong Pentecostal view, we are all baptized in the Spirit when we are saved, we receive subsequent fillings. The Holy Spirit can come upon us and often does as we step out in faith in service to the Lord. It is not something we must strive for. God promises to give his Holy Spirit to those who obey him (Acts 5:32).

    Here is how Lake describes it: “I prayed for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for nine months, and if a man ever prayed honestly, and sincerely in the faith, I did. Finally one day I was ready to throw up my hands, and quit. I said, ‘Lord, it may be for others, but it is not for me. You just cannot give it to me.’ I did not blame God. One night a gentleman by the name of Pierce said, ‘Mr. Lake, I have been wishing for a long time you would come over, and we would spend a night in prayer together. We have been praying for the Baptism for a whole year and there is not one of us baptized yet. Brother, I do not believe that you are either, so we can pray for one another.” I was so hungry to pray, so I went with all intentions of praying for the rest, but I had not been praying five minutes until the light of God began to shine around me, I found myself in a center of an arc of light ten feet in diameter, the whitest light in all the universe. So white! Oh how it spoke of purity. The remembrance of that whiteness, that wonderful whiteness, has been the ideal that has stood before my soul, of the purity of the nature of God ever since.”

    “Then a Voice began to talk to me out of that light. There was no form. And the Voice began to remind me of this incident, and that incident of disobedience to my parents, from a child; of my obstinacy, and dozens of instances when God brought me up to the line of absolutely putting my body, soul, and spirit upon the altar forever” (pp. 16-20 ‘John G. Lake – Apostle to Africa’, by Gordon Lindsay).

    Lake finally had a spiritual experience that CHANGED HIS LIFE- he called it the baptism of the spirit. But no one in the Bible describes it in these details. In fact, we are warned of Satan coming as angel of light, a minister of righteousness, there are too many stories of this same light being a different revelation to Joseph Smith and others. What is uncanny is the similarity of Williams Branham’s experience with a light. It seems that there is a consistency with men who exhibit these great supernatural powers- this light.

    “I found that my life began to manifest in the varied range of the gifts of the Spirit. I spoke in tongues by the power of God, and God flowed through me with a new force. Healings were of a more powerful order. Oh, God lived in me; God manifested in me; God spoke through me. My spirit was energized. I had a new comprehension of God’s will, a new discernment of spirit, and a new revelation of God in me.”

    When visiting a sick lady at her home: The Spirit said, ‘I have heard your prayers, I have seen your tears. You are now Baptized in the Holy Spirit.’ Then currents of power began to rush through my being from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. The shocks of power increased in rapidity, and voltage. As these currents of power would pass through me, they seemed to come upon my head, rush through my body, and through my feet into the floor… (ibid. pp. 16-20).

    This description is similar when one experiences the Kundalini force through yoga and meditiation. These same descriptions are found with those who have been attending meetings of Toronto, Brownsville and Rodney Brownes (testimony) meetings.

    “Then a new wonder manifested. My nature became so sensitized, that I could lay hands on any man, or woman, and tell what organ was diseased, and to what extent, and all about it. I tested it. I went into hospitals where physicians could not diagnose a case, touched a patient, and instantly I knew the organ that was diseased, its extent, condition, and location.”

    Powers like these have to be questioned especially when we know the belief system Lake was trained under and what he himself believed (we will get to this). Lake’s life is surrounded with grandiose claims of “beyond apostolic miracles” and this is where it is hard to distinguish the truth from fiction.

    Lake decided to go to Africa. Some say he had no visible means of support, and was miraculously provided every step of the way. Others say Lake prospered in the business world as a real estate agent and later a insurance executive and acquired much wealth (he had a wage of $50,000 a year that he left behind). As with a number of events in his life, we have at least two different stories.

    Vinson Synan, writes of John G. Lake’s Pentecostal theology being brought too Africa: “In April 1908, he led a large missionary party to Johannesburg where he began to spread the Pentecostal message throughout the nation.” Another account states he went with only four other workers and his family. These disputed facts are not isolated incidences.

    His first wife (Jennie) died six months after they arrived in South Africa in 1908. Lakes wife is said to have died of overwork and malnutrition, which seems to fit the story of their not being always provided with sufficient food to live on. He stayed there for four more years raising 7 children with his sisters help. We are told in 1912, after four years of ministry in Africa, having produced 1,250 preachers, 625 congregations (some say 700), and 100,000 converts. “Miracles and healings such as had not been seen in almost 2000 years became almost commonplace” (http://www.jglm2.atomicshops.com/whoisjglm.html).

    That’s quite a feat in 4 years- that would be a preacher a day under him and a new congregation every two days. Well if you want to believe this you can. I wonder what kind of quality preachers these would be. Where did he find all these people? When Paul taught the Ephesians he went through the whole counsel of God, he was there with them for three years to teach them correctly. Anyone who has trained people for pastoral ministry or planted churches knows it is not something done quickly. All we need to do is look at the New Testament examples to see that churches were not made quickly and in great numbers. With Lake, again, we have what I believe is a greater exaggeration, not a greater work. There are too many different stories of what transpired and the numbers are not consistent

    After Lake’s first wife died, he was contacted by a woman with a bad eye. Lake described the “Spirit” coming over her while she was sitting in a chair and:

    “She arose from her chair, her eyes quite shut, and came in my direction. I got up and moved my chair. She walked right around and came to me. She slipped her fingers down, gave me a little chuck just like my late wife would have done, and said, ‘Jack, my Jack, God is with you all the time. Go right on. But my baby, my Teddy, I am so lonesome for him, but you pray so hard, you pray so hard” (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p.133)

    Lake believed this to be his deceased wife talking to him, this experience was like channeling today. Lake did not seem to believe the Word said contacting the dead is wrong. He excused it by saying, “Listen, it is not dragging spirits up, and it isn’t dragging some spirits down. There is nothing about calling spirits down from God in the Word; only about calling them up out of the depths” (ibid.)

    “Now I want you to fix this in your mind. The blood washed always go there [3rd heaven] and if you ever talk to anyone that is over there you will go to them. They are not going to leave the throne, but they will say, ‘Brother, come up here’. That is the only way you will ever communicate with them” (ibid.)

    God forbids contact with the dead or using mediums (Deut. 18:9, 10, 11, 12) but Lake ignored the warnings and transgressed into an area that is harmful to one relationship with Christ.

    When Lake returned to the US in Feb. 1913, he remarried 6 months later Florence Switzer and fathered five more children. He then began traveling. In 1914 he went to England and attended a meeting with Pentecostal leaders. While in England, Lake founded the International Apostolic Council. Upon his returned to the US, he moved to Spokane, WA. (1914). After six months he opened his own building called “Lake’s Divine Healing Rooms”. He began training “Divine Healing Technicians” through his organization: The Divine Healing Institute. From Feb. 1915 until May 1920, it is claimed that Lake and his Divine Healing Technicians saw over 100,000 confirmed healings. From there he went to various other cities traveling down the California coast duplicating what is now called Healing Rooms. We can see why he is in the category off doing greater works.

    John G. Lake’s “ministry” consisted of a mixture. He promoted New Age/ Eastern philosophies, contact with the dead (called necromancy), out of body experiences, church in dominionism (known as Latter Rain) and word faith teaching that we can all become a god. You could honestly say he was the Benny Hinn of his time.

    The Dominion Theology belief was the basis for this ministry, (Latter Rain-Kingdom Now, and Manifested Sons of God.) This belief system teaches the church will be perfected through the apostles and prophets, the church will then affect the world, then Jesus returns to a pure and powerful bride.

    The “dominion” is to be exercised over all things, people, sickness and even Satan. Lake claimed that sin was the cause of sickness and anyone who went to a doctor was like a heathen and yet he suffered from colds, a nervous breakdown and even died from a stroke in 1935.

    “Lake believed his generation missed the mark by not realizing the true definition of apostolic ministry. Some attempted to build an apostolic church around the doctrine and manifestation of healing power.

    Others attempted to establish the apostolic church around the restoration of the gifts and speaking in tongues, while some attempted to create and establish the apostolic order around the doctrine of holiness.

    This next explanation should explain exactly what Lakes vision was about and how it coincides with the apostolic prophetic movement that is currently in the church and trying to mislead her.

    “True apostolic ministry is a fulfillment of John 14:12, with the Holy Spirit performing the same works through the church that He did through the life and ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a ministry of perfection coming to the church that will prepare her for the return of the Bridegroom.”

    (you can see this same teaching in the third wave groups and prophetic ministries).

    “He taught in Joel 2:25, the Lord makes a wonderful promise to restore all that the palmer worm, cankerworm, caterpillar, and the locust have destroyed (KJV). These four stages of a maturing locust are used to prophetically symbolize the way that the spirit of the antichrist would attack the church. In Joel 2:25, the Lord makes a wonderful promise to restore all that the palmer worm, cankerworm, caterpillar, and the locust have destroyed (KJV). These four stages of a maturing locust are used to prophetically symbolize the way that the spirit of the antichrist would attack the church.”

    The Lord’s promise to restore the apostolic church began through the ministry of Martin Luther and has now matured to a level so that this generation can expect the complete restoration of biblical apostolic ministry.”

    When the day of Pentecost had fully come, the Holy Spirit descended upon them and watered the seed within their hearts, producing the life of Christ and the apostolic church. This same process must be realized in this church age as well.” (Website- IFM International fellowship of ministries

    This is pure Latter Rain speech and one who has followed the disappointments of prophet hopefuls that spoke the same such as Paul Cain and the Kansas group of prophets, they know this is not good.

    “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father” Lakes rendition of John 14:12, if true left out 99.99 percent of the church throughout all time except for the elite chosen ones, like Him.

    According to Lake, “the truest definition of the apostolic church could be expressed in the awesome and reverential experience known as the baptism of the Holy Spirit.” While Lake rightly pointed out that the baptism was not just a gift of God, but God himself. Teaching that one did not become a dwelling place of God until they had this experience is contrary to Scripture (see Eph.1:13) – this is why Paul asked a certain group in Acts 19:2 if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed. Because that is when we are baptized by the Holy Spirit (See also Eph. 4:30; Acts 10:47,15:8).

    While Lake was feverishly burning up for more of God (especially an experience through power), God asks that we give more of ourselves to him so that the life of Christ that is already implanted in every believer can have its way. In other words we need to die to self, our desires, our ways.

    Lake is known as a man who walked in the revelation of “God in man.” He believed that a Spirit-filled Christian should see the same type of ministry Jesus did while he was on earth, and that this could only be accomplished by seeing themselves as God saw them. His belief was that Christians are to become “gods.” Lake a former Methodist believed in entire sanctification. Along with salvation, was a complete deliverance from illness.

    Quotes on Lake from DesVoignes research are quite shocking, considering the respect people have of him.

    “It is not honoring to Jesus Christ that sickness should possess us. We do not want disease. We want to be gods. Jesus said, ‘I said ye are gods’ (John 10:34). It is with the attitude of gods in the world that Jesus wants the Christian to live” (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p. 13).

    ‘I said ye are gods’ is a Scripture that is often taken out of context with those who are not biblically astute. Jesus want us to have an attitude of a servant, not a God (Phil.2 tells us this is the mind of Christ). No apostle ever taught the church that we are gods. But this is repeated today by Mormons –Occultists and word faith cultists. It is far more than just a mistake, it is what the Bible calls heresy. Ps.82 and John 10:34 needs to be examined it in context. Jesus was scolding them, not affirming their nature. This teaching happens to distort man’s nature and relationship to God. Anyone who teaches this should not be accepted as a good teacher of God’s word because it does not accurately represent what God has said about humanity and misrepresents the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    Lake said: “The power of God, the Holy Ghost, is the Spirit of Dominion. It makes one a god.” (ibid. p. 13) God does not see us as gods or an incarnation. Neither do we see the apostles exercising dominion as Lake taught.

    Lake: “I want you to hear what Jesus said about himself. God was in Christ, wasn’t He? An incarnation. God is in you, an incarnation, if you were born again. You are incarnate.” (ibid. p. 196).

    Incarnate from what? We did not exist as God before we were born which is what this means with Jesus. Lake did not understand the incarnation.

    Lake: “For God’s purpose through Jesus Christ is to deify the nature of men and thus forever make them like unto, … Thus he becomes the Son of god, a Savior and redeemer forever” (Ibid. p. 304).

    Can man become an only begotten son, which makes him the savior? Again Lake exhibited a poor and heretical understanding of the core teachings of God and man. “I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God” (Isaiah 45:5-7) “And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.”(Isaiah 45:21-22).

    Lake is mentioned as one of Kenneth Copeland’s favorite mentors (besides his discipler Kenneth Hagin), Copeland states of Lake:

    “The thing that was forfeited in the garden was regained. God gave him [Adam] dominion over the works of His hand. God made him His understudy, His king to rule over everything that had life. Man was master. man lived in the realm of god. He lived on terms of equality with God. God was a faith God. All God had to do was to believe that the sun was, and the sun was. All God had to do was to believe that the planets would be, and they were. Man belonged to God’s class of being – a faith man, And he lived in the creative realm of God, ” (“John G. Lake, ” Kenneth Copeland Publications, Fort Worth, Texas 1994, p. 66.)

    No one who has the ability to become a God, for the simple reason that God is not created – as humans we are. Adam was never to become a god, nor was he made an equal of God. There is no such thing as a creative realm of God, for God transcends anything he has created and is not limited by it. Neither do we as believers regain a rulership over creation. God did not create by faith, God did not create because of His faith. God created by the word of His power, not by faith in His belief.

    Deify mans nature to make us the son of God? How is this possible when the Bible speaks of the ONLY begotten son of God as God himself? What kind of teaching is this. Lake teaching humans attain godhood corrupts everything else – in fact how can the God of truth honor such a lie with his power?

    When you have such distorted beliefs of the Bible it affects how you look at other religions. What did Lake say about Eastern philosophies:

    “Many of the ancient philosophies have marvelous light. One of the Indian philosophies, Bhagavad, were written five hundred years before Isaiah. In it they predicted the coming of a Son of God, a Redeemer, who was to come and redeem mankind.” Buddha presented his philosophy five hundred years before Jesus. Pythagoras wrote four thousand years before Christ. In each one you will find many of the teachings of Jesus.”

    “The teachings of Jesus were not unique in that they were all new. They were new because they contained something that none of the rest possessed. It was the divine content in the word of Jesus Christ that gave his teachings their distinguishing feature from the other philosophies” (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p.304)

    Can false religions have a “marvelous light.” As Christians do we not believe light is found only in God’s word, Jesus being the true light. How can a book teach anything about God if the people who wrote do not know God? The Bhagavad Gita is Hindu teaching; it does not predict a Jewish Messiah. Buddha did not teach about God. You will find none of the teachings of Jesus in their books, what you may find is what is left known in mans conscience of right and wrong according to Romans 1:21-32. Can anyone come to know Jesus Christ through these other religions teachings? These books should not be used or spoken of as valid truth.

    If what Lake stated is true, then why did Jesus say “All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. “I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture” (John 10:8-9).

    Lake had much to say about being consumed with God and his presence, but this clearly is not the mind of Christ. We are told: “And do not be conformed to this world …” (Rom. 12:2)

    Deut. 4:2: “Do not add to what I command you” which is what is written in the Bible. Paul writes the same in 1 Cor. 4:6: “…that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.”

    Is this is what the baptism of the spirit did to Lake? We must question teaching these concepts that would deny the Bible as the only word of God as complete and offer other religions as having similar teaching. This is what we call inter-spirituality.

    http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac40.htm

    This site has allot of teachings about false prophets and teachers as well read please.

  • Elmarie A

    Robbie

    Yip nou verstaan ek. dankie

    Yes the yawn and type is not a good thing lol lol i’m just glad I have not fallen asleep yet while typing waagaga hiegie hiegie lol

  • Leon

    Robbie

    Rykdom is ook nie altyd net geld nie.
    As jy Jesus in jou lewe het is jy al klaar skatryk.
    Ek is nie skatryk nie maar ek het nie nodig om ander in die oë te kyk nie. Inteendeel ek wil nie skatryk wees nie. “But I am Blessed” Ek het ‘n getuienis wat ek al met baie gedeel het, wat dit aan betref.

  • Amanda

    Elmarie

    It can happen, you know. And it is not funny. It is usually a sign of superior intellect, I have heard.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Must be so I believe you yes. Then should I try it? lol lol Ok yes I will try it out lol lol it sounds kinda interesting lollol

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Hmmm kinda comfy yes I like this idea lol lol

  • Amanda

    Waagagaga! Exactly! And everybody acknowledge the superiority of the feline. No, do not try this at home. Without the correct level of cuteness you will only embarrass yourself and damage a perfectly good keyboard. It is NOT for the amateur.

    Sorry, could not open your second link. Access forbidden.

  • Elmarie A

    This excerpt from my comment above is scary!!

    The “dominion” is to be exercised over all things, people, sickness and even Satan. Lake claimed that sin was the cause of sickness and anyone who went to a doctor was like a heathen and yet he suffered from colds, a nervous breakdown and even died from a stroke in 1935.

    I know someone who believes this and even says it to his family memebers if the get ill. I can only pray they find the truth before it is to late.

    My question here is did John G Lake even know Luke in the Bible was a doctor and kept on practicing as he was spreading the Gospel. The answer i dont think so!!!
    _____________________________________________________________

    Luke:
    The book of Luke was written to give a reliable and precise record of the history of Jesus Christ’s life. Luke spelled out his purpose for writing in the first four verses of chapter one. Not only as an historian, but also as a medical doctor, Luke paid great attention to detail, including dates and events that happened throughout the life of Christ. A theme that is emphasized in the Gospel of Luke is the humanity of Jesus Christ and his perfection as a human. Jesus was the perfect man who gave the perfect sacrifice for sin, therefore, providing the perfect Savior for humankind.
    http://christianity.about.com/od/newtestamentbooks/qt/gospellukeintro.htm

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    <Sorry, could not open your second link. Access forbidden.<<

    Hmmm kinda comfy yes I like this idea lol lol I do hope you can see this lol lol

  • Amanda

    Euuuwe, my eyes! Thank you for making my point, Elmarie.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    lol lol

  • sister u r lost kobus has been healed 4rm that cancer i was the at spirit word ministry u dont know what u talking about dont u believe rumours be blessed

  • Amanda

    goodwill

    Why do you call someone who is lost your sister? Why should God bless an unbeliever? I am trying to understand where you are coming from?

  • Amanda

    goodwill

    Golda rumoured that Kobus teaches immortality. Is that true? Does he?

    How will death be destroyed? If we TAKE the PROMISES of GOD and start believing that JESUS truly conquered death on the Cross for us. If we take the Promises of God, we OPEN the Gift of Life He has died for. Opening the Gift means we BELIEVE AND LIVE AND CONFESS the Promises of God because we believe it with all of our heart. It is the message of IMMORTALITY. IMMORTALITY and ETERNAL LIFE are two different things. Read Romans 2:7. Never in the Bible does it state anywhere that we must physically die before we can have ETERNAL LIFE. LIFE means in the orignal translations – “life without interruptions”.That means NO DEATH. Paul clearly stated that these Promises was not for the martyrs like him, even if he did believe, but for “them” that together with Paul and his generation, we should all come to perfection, together. Who are they? A future generation that will take the message and promise of IMMORTALITY. It can be you.

  • Elmarie A

    goodwill

    u dont know what u talking about dont u believe rumours

    The fact is these are not rumours Goodwill it is true, do you know we are warned in the Bible about the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing? I have seen video clips of what goes on at Spirit world ministries and it is DEMONIC.

    Just the fact that Kobus van Rensburg has ties with T B Joshua should make you Run and run far away as quickly as you can these men are deceivers.

    Kobus claims That (see proof below) : He claims that during the last week of January 2000, the Holy Spirit fell upon him in a very special way while visiting Prophet T.B. Joshua in Lagos, Nigeria and he also claims to heal people of cancer, HIV and AIDS on a weekly basis.

    How can the Holy Spirit fall upon a person in a SPECIAL way No there is only one way and that is the Biblical way!!!

    By this time the world should be Cancer free and HIV free based on Kobus Van Rensburg FALSE CLAIMS !!!
    The Reality is Goodwill to give sick people false hope and lies like Kobus Van Rensburg does IS A SIN !!!!!

    Proof Kobus van Rensburg AND T B Joshua have close ties.

    Kobus van Rensburg (a.k.a. Prophet Kobus van Rensburg), together with his wife Annalise, are the senior pastors and sole founders of Spirit Word Ministries, situated in Stilfontein in the North-West Province of South Africa. Van Rensburg is a self- appointed prophet and his ministry focuses on signs, miracles and wonders and also teaches everything from Restoration or Dominion theology to prosperity teaching. He claims that during the last week of January 2000, the Holy Spirit fell upon him in a very special way while visiting Prophet T.B. Joshua in Lagos, Nigeria and he also claims to heal people of cancer, HIV and AIDS on a weekly basis. Spirit Word Ministries (formerly Lofdal Ministries) was started in 1985 and now has a Christian school, Bible school and various other programmes as well as a regular television broadcast in South Africa. He claims to be an anointed of God.

    Matthew 7:15
    Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

    2 Corinthians 11:13
    For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).

    2 John 1:7
    For many imposters (seducers, deceivers, and false leaders) have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge (confess, admit) the coming of Jesus Christ (the Messiah) in bodily form. Such a one is the imposter (the seducer, the deceiver, the false leader, the antagonist of Christ) and the antichrist.

    Galatians 5:9
    A little leaven (a slight inclination to error, or a few false teachers) leavens the whole lump [it perverts the whole conception of faith or misleads the whole church].

    2 Peter 2:1
    BUT ALSO [in those days] there arose false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among yourselves, who will subtly and stealthily introduce heretical doctrines (destructive heresies), even denying and disowning the Master Who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

  • Karl

    Deborah,

    If there is anyone on this site that insults people then that is just YOU.

    Take this as a warning if you like…………if you do not stop……..we will still forgive you!

  • Elmarie A

    Karl

    “How should Christians stand up for their faith in such an anti-Christian world?”

    Answer: As Christians, the two things we can do to stand up for Christ are to live according to His Word and grow our own knowledge of Him. Christ said, “let your light shine before men…” (Matthew 5:16). This means that we should live and act in a way that supports the Gospel. We should also arm ourselves with knowledge, both of the Gospel (Ephesians 6:10-17) and of the world around us. 1 Peter 3:15 says: “But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.” All we can do is live and teach as Christ would and let Him take care of the rest.

    Critics of Christianity have become more and more vocal recently. This is partly because there are many people who do not believe in God or understand the truth about Him at all. Yet, the apparent swell in anti-Christians is also due to perception. As with many topics, those who truly despise Christianity are the loudest and most vocal of the non-believers. The vast majority of those who do not believe don’t really care enough to bother believers. The few angry, vocal, bitter unbelievers make enough noise to seem more numerous than they are.

    The typical insult from the non-religious crowd is to refer to believers as “ignorant,” “stupid,” “brainwashed,” or otherwise suggest that those who have faith are less intelligent than those who do not. When a Christian puts up a good fight by standing up intelligently for his faith, the terms change to “bigot,” “extremist,” or “zealot.” When people who know that believer is kind and loving hear this, the loud-mouthed atheist starts to look like the fool that he or she is (Psalm 53:1). Most non-believers have not had personal reasons to see Christians negatively, but they sometimes hear so much from the loud anti-Christians that they just assume it is so. They need examples of Christ-like living to see the truth.

    Of course, when someone claiming to be a Christian says or does something that is not Christlike, the angry, loud crowd is there to point them out as a typical religious hypocrite. This is something we have been warned to expect (Romans 1:28-30; Matthew 5:11). The best thing to do is to point out a passage of the Bible that speaks against what the person did. For example, a murderer is violating Exodus 20:13. Point out that just because a person says they are a Christian, and even if they think they are a Christian, does not mean that they are. Matthew 7:16,20 tell us that true Christians will be known by their actions, not merely by their profession. And, remind them that absolutely no one lives without sinning at all (Romans 3:23).

    The important thing to remember is that no one, no matter how persuasive, can force anyone to believe anything they don’t want to believe. No matter what the evidence, no matter what the argument, people will believe what they want to believe (Luke 12:54-56). This is true for both sides, since the angry antiChristian types are some of the least tolerant people around. But conviction is not a Christian’s job. The Holy Spirit convicts people (John 14:16-17), and they choose whether or not to believe. What we can do is present ourselves in a way that is as Christ-like as possible. Most of the “beating up” that Christianity endures involves actions that are not in line with Biblical teachings, or arguments that are deliberately twisted. It is sad that there are many atheists who have read the entire Bible, word for word, looking for ammunition to throw at Christians, and that there are many Christians who have hardly read the Bible at all.

    It’s hard for the angry crowd to accuse a Christian of being a hateful, cruel bigot when that person demonstrates a life of kindness, humility, and compassion. When a Christian can discuss, debate or debunk secular arguments accurately, the label of “ignorant” no longer fits. A Christian who has read the arguments of the secular crowd, and can politely point out their flaws, helps to deflate the stereotype pushed by the vocal atheists. Knowledge is the weapon, and it is invincible when we let Christ direct us in how to use it.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/anti-Christian.html

  • JC

    I have read all the above and can say that what I have suspected about Kobus v Rensburg has been confirmed over and over. HE IS A FALSE “SELF PROCLAIMED” PROPHET.

    I have also been financially been ripped-off by followers of Kobus v Rensburg, while proclaiming that they were “Christians” and doing business on “Christian principles”, quoting Bible verses on an ongoing basis (taking it completely out of context) and praying about every decision. Well they thought nothing of it to cheat, tell lies and “steal” from me, so how is that for “Christian principles” and walking with the Bible under the arm?

    Your actions shows what is in your heart.

    Keep up the good work, and let this website be a beacon of light to those lost in false doctrine and prophets.

    JC

  • JC

    JC

    I have also received a “healing” during the time in 1996/7 that I was part of a group of people when the “toronto blessing” (curse in disguise) was doing the rounds in SA. I was prayed for and hands were laid on me, I “received” an “anointing” and my back was “healed”.

    I could stand a few feet away from someone and when I started to “pray” in “tongues” for the person I would feel my hand grow warm and the person would fall backwards to the ground without being touched. Lots of people were healed during our outreaches, but at what cost? So its not something new that KVR also “heals” people. Question is WHO is behind the “healing”?

    Luckily my eyes was opened by what Jacov Prash, Bill Randalls and Dave Hunt said about false prophets and when I repented and turned away from the group and false teachings, I also lost my “healing” and needed surgery to my back (2 x operations 2001, 2002). The Lord will not heal a person and then take the healing away at a later stage! This confirmed that my “healing” was NOT from GOD but from satan, the father of lies and deceit.

    JC

  • To Deborah and all the others filled wth hate,

    Firstly you need to catch up with some facts! Prophet Kobus is healed of cancer and is getting stronger everyday.

    You must also be very careful – all of the healings taking place are only becase of God. There is no way the devil heals anyone. You are coming vey close to blasphing the Holy Spirit.

    Prophet Kobus is an annointed man of God and is only teaching the uncompomised, undefiled truth found in the Word of God.

    We are affiliated with Spirit Word and being associated with prophet Kobus has totally changed our lives. We also have miracles taking place in our church – every church has to have signs, wonders and miracles following or it is completely dead and without power.

    What makes Kobus’ cross “catholic”? There is no power in an empty cross. Jesus was crucified before the foundations of the earth and he only power the cross ever had or will have is in ‘Christ and what He did for us on the cross”

    Before carrying on with your gossipping, I suggest that you go and visit Spirit Word. You will find the real and true presence of God – maybe God can touch yourcold and dark hearts.

  • just reading through the comments. Prophet Kobus teaches Bible and ……..wait for it……immortality. It is in the Bible – go read 1 Corinthians 15.(just for starters) Christ came to bring us life and bring it more abunantly – I choose life.

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    To Deborah and all the others filled wth hate,

    Im just shaking my head Debbie and wonder if I should answer you? But I will and in Love. Ok I will start with Biblical lesson and take heed please.

    “Are Christians guilty of hate speech?”

    Answer: A working definition of hate speech is “speech that is intended to insult, intimidate, or cause prejudice against a person or people based on their race, gender, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, occupation, disability, or physical appearance.” If that is the accepted definition, a Christian should never participate in hate speech. However, the problem is that the definition of hate speech is broadening over time. Proclaiming that a certain belief is wrong or that a certain activity is sinful, based on biblical principles, is increasingly being included in the definition of hate speech.

    Ephesians 4:15 refers to “speaking the truth in love.” First Peter 3:15 instructs Christians to defend their faith, but to do so “with gentleness and respect.” Colossians 4:6 proclaims, “let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt…” Sadly, some Christians fail to follow these biblical instructions. Some Christians (or at least people who claim to be Christians) speak the truth, but speak it in such a way that it is very hateful. One prominent example would be Westboro Baptist Church and its “God hates fags” slogan. Westboro Baptist Church is correct in declaring the Bible’s teaching that homosexuality is sinful, but they are declaring this truth in such a way that it is intended to be incendiary, offensive, and hurtful. Needless to say, the Bible does not support such methods.

    It is likely that in the near future, governments will begin declaring more speech as hate speech, thereby making it illegal. In some parts of the world, it is illegal to say that homosexuality is a sin. In some countries, it is illegal to declare one religion right and other religions wrong. This steady broadening of what qualifies as hate speech could eventually lead to any effort to evangelize being declared hate speech, since it would be “hateful” to tell a person that what he/she currently believes is incorrect.

    What the perpetrators of this expanded hate speech definition fail to realize (or admit) is that to tell someone the truth is an act of love, not hate. Is it hateful for a teacher to tell a student that his/her answer is wrong? Is it hateful for a building inspector to tell a construction company that they are building on a faulty foundation? Of course the answer to these questions is a resounding no. However, that is precisely the illogic that is being applied to current hate speech legislation. Telling someone that his/her religious views are wrong is somehow hateful. Telling someone that his/her lifestyle is immoral is somehow hateful. The logic is not, in any sense, consistent with how truth is determined in other areas of society.

    At GotQuestions.org, our goal is to speak the truth in love. We do not hate Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Catholics, Mormons, or Jehovah’s Witnesses. Rather, we simply believe that these groups are making some serious theological and biblical errors. We do not hate homosexuals, adulterers, pornographers, transsexuals, or fornicators. Rather, we simply believe that those who commit such acts are making immoral and ungodly decisions. Telling someone that he/she is in the wrong is not hateful. In reality, refusing to tell someone the truth is what is truly hateful. Declaring the speaking of truth, presented respectfully, to be hate speech, is in fact the ultimate demonstration of hate.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/hate-speech.html

    Debbie your next Biblical lesson in Love to follow soon.

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    Before carrying on with your gossipping, I suggest that you go and visit Spirit Word. You will find the real and true presence of God – maybe God can touch yourcold and dark hearts.

    Debbie do you know what the word Discernment means?

    Proverbs 10:13
    On the lips of him who has discernment skillful and godly Wisdom is found, but discipline and the rod are for the back of him who is without sense and understanding.

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    just reading through the comments. Prophet Kobus teaches Bible and ……..wait for it……immortality. It is in the Bible – go read 1 Corinthians 15.(just for starters) Christ came to bring us life and bring it more abunantly – I choose life.

    “What did Jesus mean when He promised an abundant life?”

    Answer: In John 10:10, Jesus said, “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly” (NKJV). Unlike a thief, the Lord Jesus does not come for selfish reasons. He comes to give, not to get. He comes that people may have life in Him that is meaningful, purposeful, joyful, and eternal. We receive this abundant life the moment we accept Him as our Savior.

    This word “abundant” in the Greek is perisson, meaning “exceedingly, very highly, beyond measure, more, superfluous, a quantity so abundant as to be considerably more than what one would expect or anticipate.” In short, Jesus promises us a life far better than we could ever imagine, a concept reminiscent of 1 Corinthians 2:9: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.” The apostle Paul tells us something that is utterly profound: God is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think and He does it by His power, a power that is at work within us if we belong to Him (Ephesians 3:20).

    But, before we begin to have visions of lavish homes, expensive cars, worldwide cruises, and more money than we know what to do with, we need to pause for a second and think about what Jesus teaches regarding this abundant life. The Bible tells us that wealth, prestige, position, and power in this world are not exactly heading the top of God’s list of blessings (1 Corinthians 1:26-29). In terms of economic, academic, and social status, most Christians do not come from the privileged classes. Clearly, then, abundant life does not consist of an abundance of material things. If that were the case, Jesus would have been the wealthiest of men. But just the opposite is true (Matthew 8:20).

    Abundant life is eternal life, a life that begins the moment we come to Christ and receive Him as Savior, and goes on throughout all eternity. The biblical definition of life — specifically eternal life — is provided by Jesus Himself: “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). This definition makes no mention of length of days, health, prosperity, family, or occupation. As a matter of fact, the only thing it does mention is knowledge of God, which is the key to a truly abundant life.

    What, then, is Jesus telling us about what abundant life truly is? First, abundance is spiritual abundance, not material. In fact, God is not overly concerned with the physical circumstances of our lives. It is enough that He assures us that we need not worry about what we will eat or wear (Matthew 6:25-32; Philippians 4:19). Physical blessings may or may not be part of a God-centered life; neither our wealth nor our poverty is a sure indication of our standing with God. Solomon had all the material blessings available to a man yet found it all to be meaningless (Ecclesiastes 5:10-15). Paul, on the other hand, was content in whatever physical circumstances he found himself (Philippians 4:11-12).

    Second, eternal life, the life a Christian is truly concerned with, is not determined by duration but by a relationship with God. This is why, once we are converted and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, we are said to have eternal life already (1 John 5:11-13), though not, of course, in its fullness. Length of life on earth is not synonymous with abundant life.

    Finally, a Christian’s life revolves around “grow[ing] in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18). This teaches us that the abundant life is a continual process of learning, practicing, and maturing, as well as failing, recovering, adjusting, enduring, and overcoming, because, in our present state, “we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror” (1 Corinthians 13:12). One day we will see God face to face, and we will know Him completely as we will be known completely (1 Corinthians 13:12). We will no longer struggle with sin and doubt. This will be the ultimately fulfilled abundant life.

    Although we are naturally desirous of material things, as Christians our perspective on life must be revolutionized (Romans 12:2). Just as we become new creations when we come to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), so must our understanding of “abundance” be transformed. True abundant life consists of an abundance of love, joy, peace, and the rest of the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), not an abundance of “stuff.” It consists of life that is eternal, and, therefore, our interest is in the eternal, not the temporal. Paul admonishes us, “Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:2-3).

    http://www.gotquestions.org/abundant-life.html

  • Debbie

    will you please quote scripture and verse where the word says that abundant or eternal life only starts when we die and go to heaven!

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    Higher up on this thread

    Golda Meyer said:

    I have been present one night when Kobus truly slipped away – but he preaches immortality – truly the Truth if you will read his teachings and read the supportive scriptures yourself. Kobus came back to life many times in the past 9 months. Coming back means that he was dead. He just got up and preached again, weak of cancer. I witnessed this and my friend, a medical doctor witnessed this too. A miracle? Of course, but if he did not preach and believe in immortality (not just your soul, but your physical body) he would not have come back. Romans 2:7 says we must SEEK immortality. Seek it if you want it. He found it. If you apply the uncompromised Truth, it will work for you…

    Jesus brought us ABUNDANT LIFE. Look it up in the Greek and Hebrew original translations. LIFE means: PEACE, lack of nothing, not life, not poverty, not health, not wealth. Why do you THINK Jesus told his diciples to HEAL the sick, raise the dead and preach the Gospel? To KEEP them from DYING! Why do we heal the sick and raise the dead, just so that they can die later? Our God is not that cruel. He truly meant for us to live. This is true KINGDOM LIFE. Very few of us has accessed this. We are just Christians. Saved through Grace from sin. This means we are only BABY Christians, not matured Christians. Kingdom Life is much higher than just a saved Life in Christ…

    How will death be destroyed? If we TAKE the PROMISES of GOD and start believing that JESUS truly conquered death on the Cross for us. If we take the Promises of God, we OPEN the Gift of Life He has died for. Opening the Gift means we BELIEVE AND LIVE AND CONFESS the Promises of God because we believe it with all of our heart. It is the message of IMMORTALITY. IMMORTALITY and ETERNAL LIFE are two different things. Read Romans 2:7. Never in the Bible does it state anywhere that we must physically die before we can have ETERNAL LIFE. LIFE means in the orignal translations – “life without interruptions”.That means NO DEATH. Paul clearly stated that these Promises was not for the martyrs like him, even if he did believe, but for “them” that together with Paul and his generation, we should all come to perfection, together. Who are they? A future generation that will take the message and promise of IMMORTALITY. It can be you.

    Debbie, do you agree that Kobus is preaching that we can choose to be immortal in our present bodies? Have you chosen that? Are you immortal like Kobus?

  • Debbie

    The Bible says we can be immortal -yes I do choose life.

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    Are you saying that your physical body is not going to die? If so, will it continue to age?

  • If we are alive when Jesus returns then we will be given our immortal bodies. Yes, I am saying that our physical bodies will be made immortal and we will not die. I have seen people around me who are fighting the good fight of faith and are laying hold on life who are becoming younger.
    How did death enter into the world?

  • when you lay hold on life and seek immortality, corruption and aging do stop – try it – you will love the results.

  • Elmarie A

    Jaaaa well lets just still rest awhile mmmmmmm ………..k yes much better I think? k

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    We know that at the last trumpet and only then, we shall be changed. It is not only for those who embraced immortality.

    I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
    (1Co 15:50-53)

    Sin came into the world through Adam:

    Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned– for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (Rom 5:12-14)

    Are you saying Kobus is not aging anymore? How much have you ‘youthed’?

  • cecilia

    Debbie, June 24th said: “There is no way the devil heals anyone.”

    so let me get this clear…

    you’re talking about Cobus’ “church” only? because otherwise it could mean that : if I’m a christian and get ill and I go to a sangoma (who professes to be a christian too, together with his “job”), and he prays 4 me amongst other things, and I get healed, it is God who heals me?
    just a question…

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    when you lay hold on life and seek immortality, corruption and aging do stop – try it – you will love the results.

    Do you have Scripture for this? Please provide us with the relevant Bible Scripture Debbie.

  • Robbie

    Debbie.

    God uses even the wicked to fulfill His purpose.

    Thursday’ Newspaper in Klerksdorp – a letter that read… “come to Spirit World Ministries … salvation is just around the corner” (meaning at Lofdal).

  • Elmarie A

    Robbie

    Nooo your kidding me. So SWM says they give salvation and one can find it around the corner (meaning at Lofdal)? Jikes!!! What happened to Salvation ONLY trough Jesus Christ Crucified?

    Oh these people are saddening me. How Tragic!!

  • Elmarie A

    Robbie

    Is it Possible for you to put the whole letter up here as a comment please.

    mmm I know it may be some work to get it on the comment but you need exercise lol lol lol. It seems you have had a long holiday lol lol

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Debbie

    Amanda asked you: “Are you saying that your physical body is not going to die? If so, will it continue to age?”
    You replied: “The Bible says we can be immortal -yes I do choose life.

    1) When is your next birthday?
    2) Give me 1 name of someone who is immortal on earth right now, past the age of 400 (besides the guy from the series Highlander)
    3) Have you been to the doctor recently?
    5) Seen a car accident recently? Pray you are never in one.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Golda Meyer says “I have been present one night when Kobus truly slipped away….. Kobus came back to life many times in the past 9 months. Coming back means that he was dead”

    Where was this exaclty? In hospital? I would like the name of this hospital, doctors names and all information pertaining to these miracles.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Debbie

    will you please quote scripture and verse where the word says that abundant or eternal life only starts when we die and go to heaven!

    Tell you what, when you die one day, PLEASE come and tell us all about it afterwards.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Debbie

    To Deborah and all the others filled wth hate,

    Um, that was quite a hate filled sentence I would say.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Debbie, June 24th said: “There is no way the devil heals anyone.”

    Satan can turn sticks into real snakes:

    Exodus 7:10-12 “And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.”

    ———–

    Because of man’s willingness to sin and disobey God’s word Satan became the ruler of earth…hence you will NEVER find immortality on earth, only in ETERNITY after you die is where your RICHES LIE. But if you want to gather your riches here on earth (which Jesus tells your NOT TO DO) then go ahead

    Luke 4:6 “And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.”

    ———–

    God has given Satan power, certain amount of control, even though he believes he has it all, he does not…

    Revelation 13:14 “And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.”

    ———–

    Satan works miracles to deceive people like you for instance and everyone else who does not read their bible…and why do I know you do not read your bible, because if you did you would be quoting these scriptures to us to answer your OWN QUESTION.

    Revelation 16:14 “For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

    ———–

    Can Satan make a false ‘pastor’ look like such a wonderful, loving, nice, Christian? Would Satan dare show up looking like Jesus in visions etc. Of course.

    2 Cor 11:14 “for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light”

    ———–

    Satan can cast out demons….

    Matthew 12:27 Jesus said to the Pharisees: “And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.”

    ———–

    Can Satan heal? Oh yes he can, especially when he gave you the illness in the first place, that he could just then take away like in Kobus case. In the Bible when Jesus healed it was instant, Satan does partial (takes time to get better) healing – just like Kobus – recovering slowly

    A genuine Christian would NEVER receive a satanic healing. But a fake Christian most definitely can, and with that healing comes many other things that will drag that person right down into hell.

    Enough? Or do you want more?

  • I am not going to waste my time with scoffers………

    you want a scripture reference for when ageing and corruption stop. The Bible is full but here…
    Psalm 91 With long life will I satisfy him
    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies.

    What happens to a mortal body which is quickened by the life giving Spirit? It becomes immortal.
    Job 4 Your flesh will be freshened like a babies flesh.

    Before carrying on blaspheming the Holy Ghost and insulting and doubting a true prophet of God – I suggest you all take a trip to Stilfontein to see for yourselves.

    Just by the way the last trump is the last message which is the message of immortality.

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    No. You are going to die, should the Lord tarry. I know this, because the Word of God says so:

    And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, (Heb 9:27)

    What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah. (Psa 89:48)

    How can Kobus be a true prophet of God if he contradicts Scripture?

    Just by the way the last trump is the last message which is the message of immortality.

    The last trumpet has not sounded yet, for the dead has not been raised imperishable, we have not been changed and therefor you are not immortal. (1Co 15:52)

    Debbie, you have been very bold in your assertions. Can answer boldly again: Do you fear death?

  • Psalm 102:20 To hear the sighing and groaning of the prisoner, TO LOOSE THOSE THAT ARE APPOINTED TO DEATH.

    The last trumpet is busy sounding – listen, can you hear it?

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    I suggest you all take a trip to Stilfontein to see for yourselves.

    Naaaaaaaah no thanks Debbie there is enough proof for us that Kobus van Rensburg’s teachings are not Biblical and False. You are twisting the Scriptures to suit yourself. Besides we are warned to stay away from people like Kobus van Rensburg as Christians.

    Seems to me you are obsessed with immortality Debbie. Are you afraid to get old/ or die ?? You have mentioned the word immortality/immortal 7 times ??

    Yeah right stop wasting your time and ours please.

    I just pray that your conversion was not a false one, because you seem to concentrate on the in wrong things.

    anyway did you read this article too??

    Kobus van Rensburg Immortal?

    I see another sequel of the ‘Highlander’ coming soon to a cinema near you.

    Movie Title:

    * Highlander and the quest for the Spirit Word:

    “One charismatic Immortal goes on a quest to save the world. Searching for the Spirit Word, an unusual word that looks like a spirit. Many non-charismatic Immortals search for the Spirit Word too. The battle will be immense. But remember, there can only be One”

    Cast:

    * Kobus van Rensburg as Duncan McCloud
    * TB Joshua as TB Joshua

    http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/21/kobus-van-rensburg-immortal/

  • Let us wait and see…………………….

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    Psalm 102:20 To hear the sighing and groaning of the prisoner, TO LOOSE THOSE THAT ARE APPOINTED TO DEATH.

    The Real Biblical meaning of this verse Debbie.

    Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary on Psalm 102:20

    102:12-22 We are dying creatures, but God is an everlasting God, the protector of his church; we may be confident that it will not be neglected. When we consider our own vileness, our darkness and deadness, and the manifold defects in our prayers, we have cause to fear that they will not be received in heaven; but we are here assured of the contrary, for we have an Advocate with the Father, and are under grace, not under the law. Redemption is the subject of praise in the Christian church; and that great work is described by the temporal deliverance and restoration of Israel. Look down upon us, Lord Jesus; and bring us into the glorious liberty of thy children, that we may bless and praise thy name.
    http://biblecommenter.com/psalms/102-20.htm

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    No, let us not wait. If you are wrong then you have no guarantee that you shall see tomorrow. Death has not yet been destroyed. People still die.

    For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. (1Co 15:22-26)

    If you die tonight, how will you face the wrath of God for breaking His Law? Do you fear God’s judgment? Do you fear death?

    Debbie, I do not hear anything except the blasted vuvuzela’s and that is not it.

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies.

    Debbie again you seem not to understand the real meaning of Scripture for Romans 8:11

    Matthew Henry’s Whole Bible Commentary ; Romans 8:11

    There is a life reserved too for the poor body at last: He shall also quicken your mortal bodies, v. 11. The Lord is for the body; and though at death it is cast aside as a despised broken vessel, a vessel in which is no pleasure, yet God will have a desire to the work of his hands (Job 14:15), will remember his covenant with the dust, and will not lose a grain of it; but the body shall be reunited to the soul, and clothed with a glory agreeable to it. Vile bodies shall be newly fashioned, Phil. 3:21; 1 Co. 15:42. Two great assurances of the resurrection of the body are mentioned:-(1.) The resurrection of Christ: He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken. Christ rose as the head, and first-fruits, and forerunner of all the saints, 1 Co. 15:20. The body of Christ lay in the grave, under the sin of all the elect imputed, and broke through it. O grave, then, where is thy victory? It is in the virtue of Christ’s resurrection that we shall rise. (2.) The indwelling of the Spirit. The same Spirit that raiseth the soul now will raise the body shortly: By his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The bodies of the saints are the temples of the Holy Ghost, 1 Co. 3:16; 6:19. Now, though these temples may be suffered for awhile to lie in ruins, yet they shall be rebuilt. The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, shall be repaired, whatever great mountains may be in the way. The Spirit, breathing upon dead and dry bones, will make them live, and the saints even in their flesh shall see God. Hence the apostle by the way infers how much it is our duty to walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, v. 12, 13. Let not our life be after the wills and motions of the flesh. Two motives he mentions here:-[1.] We are not debtors to the flesh, neither by relation, gratitude, nor any other bond or obligation. We owe no suit nor service to our carnal desires; we are indeed bound to clothe, and feed, and take care of the body, as a servant to the soul in the service of God, but no further. We are not debtors to it; the flesh never did us so much kindness as to oblige us to serve it. It is implied that we are debtors to Christ and to the Spirit: there we owe our all, all we have and all we can do, by a thousand bonds and obligations. Being delivered from so great a death by so great a ransom, we are deeply indebted to our deliverer. See 1 Co. 6:19, 20. [2.] Consider the consequences, what will be at the end of the way. Here are life and death, blessing and cursing, set before us. If you live after the flesh, you shall die; that is, die eternally. It is the pleasing, and serving, and gratifying, of the flesh, that are the ruin of souls; that is, the second death. Dying indeed is the soul’s dying: the death of the saints is but a sleep. But, on the other hand, You shall live, live and be happy to eternity; that is the true life: If you through the Spirit mortify the deeds of the body, subdue and keep under all fleshly lusts and affections, deny yourselves in the pleasing and humouring of the body, and this through the Spirit; we cannot do it without the Spirit working it in us, and the Spirit will not do it without our doing our endeavour. So that in a word we are put upon this dilemma, either to displease the body or destroy the soul.
    http://biblecommenter.com/romans/8-11.htm

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    Psalm 91 With long life will I satisfy him

    Psalm 91
    1 HE WHO [a]dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stable and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty [Whose power no foe can withstand].
    2 I will say of the Lord, He is my Refuge and my Fortress, my God; on Him I lean and rely, and in Him I [confidently] trust!
    3 For [then] He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.
    4 [Then] He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings shall you trust and find refuge; His truth and His faithfulness are a shield and a buckler.
    5 You shall not be afraid of the terror of the night, nor of the arrow (the evil plots and slanders of the wicked) that flies by day,
    6 Nor of the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor of the destruction and sudden death that surprise and lay waste at noonday.
    7 A thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come near you.
    8 Only a spectator shall you be [yourself inaccessible in the secret place of the Most High] as you witness the reward of the wicked.
    9 Because you have made the Lord your refuge, and the Most High your dwelling place,(A)
    10 There shall no evil befall you, nor any plague or calamity come near your tent.
    11 For He will give His angels [especial] charge over you to accompany and defend and preserve you in all your ways [of obedience and service].
    12 They shall bear you up on their hands, lest you dash your foot against a stone.(B)
    13 You shall tread upon the lion and adder; the young lion and the serpent shall you trample underfoot.(C)
    14 Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him; I will set him on high, because he knows and understands My name [has a personal knowledge of My mercy, love, and kindness–trusts and relies on Me, knowing I will never forsake him, no, never].
    15 He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him.
    16 With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation.

    Psalm 91 >>
    Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary on the Bible
    91:1-8 He that by faith chooses God for his protector, shall find all in him that he needs or can desire. And those who have found the comfort of making the Lord their refuge, cannot but desire that others may do so. The spiritual life is protected by Divine grace from the temptations of Satan, which are as the snares of the fowler, and from the contagion of sin, which is a noisome pestilence. Great security is promised to believers in the midst of danger. Wisdom shall keep them from being afraid without cause, and faith shall keep them from being unduly afraid. Whatever is done, our heavenly Father’s will is done; and we have no reason to fear. God’s people shall see, not only God’s promises fulfilled, but his threatenings. Then let sinners come unto the Lord upon his mercy-seat, through the Redeemer’s name; and encourage others to trust in him also.

    91:9-16 Whatever happens, nothing shall hurt the believer; though trouble and affliction befal, it shall come, not for his hurt, but for good, though for the present it be not joyous but grievous. Those who rightly know God, will set their love upon him. They by prayer constantly call upon him. His promise is, that he will in due time deliver the believer out of trouble, and in the mean time be with him in trouble. The Lord will manage all his worldly concerns, and preserve his life on earth, so long as it shall be good for him. For encouragement in this he looks unto Jesus. He shall live long enough; till he has done the work he was sent into this world for, and is ready for heaven. Who would wish to live a day longer than God has some work to do, either by him or upon him? A man may die young, yet be satisfied with living. But a wicked man is not satisfied even with long life. At length the believer’s conflict ends; he has done for ever with trouble, sin, and temptation.
    http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/psalms/91.htm

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    Are you a christ?

    Prophecy from Kobus extracts

    06 January 2010

    Come on, open your eyes and see the open door
    Come on in and begin to sing
    Of the glory of the living One staying on the inside of you
    You are Mine

    4 April 2010

    So do not fear
    God says I’m right here
    I will not ever leave you alone
    I’ve actually raised you
    You’re seating with Me in My throne

    I will never leave you alone
    Remember, you’re with Me in My throne
    Together we will reign and we will rule
    On this earth and in this day

    05 May 2010

    On the inside of you, God says you have been stirred
    Now the glory it’s time to see
    It’s time to press in and step right inside of Me
    For it’s in the Christ that you live and move and have your being
    Getting out of the realm of the natural scene
    Getting into that place called “There”

    01 May 2010

    Holy angels sent out to minister for you
    Don’t you think it’s time that they do what they’re supposed to do
    Don’t let them stand around idle, My son
    Come on, this thing has already begun
    Now stretch yourself, use your mind
    You’re not of this world, you are from a different kind
    You’ve got the Christ-life rising up on the inside of you

    07 May 2010

    I’ve taken you out of all the evil, all the sin and all the dross
    I’ve lifted you up and I’ve placed you right here with me on My Throne
    I’ve put My Spirit in you, to call Me Father, you are My own

    You can only realise – on the inside of you, you are rising to the fullness, the stature
    Nothing less than Christ’s own size

    Child of God, realise –
    Anywhere you are, in the presence of God you do stand
    It’s by the blood that entrance has been made for you
    It’s time to realise – God is living on the inside of you
    It’s no more I, as the Bible says
    But it’s Christ in you
    Power and mercy and grace – let it flow through you
    Open your mouth, speak the Word out loud
    It’s time for you to get the others out

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    The verse you half quoted should not just read :” Psalm 91 With long life will I satisfy him ”

    It actualy reads as follows: Psalm 91:16
    With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation.

    Debbie Please quote complete Scripture. Remember we cannot just take pieces from the Word of God and make/forse it to be applicable we must use Scripture in context.

    For the Lord God says in : Deuteronomy 4:2 (Amplified Bible)
    You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Debbie

    You say, “I am not going to waste my time with scoffers………”

    Well we don’t have time to spoon feed you either. We have provide you in great detail answers to your questions, and you reply with lame answers that mean absolutely nothing. You WANT to be led astray… so go. You time is up on this blog. Toodles.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Debbie

    What do you have to say to children born deformed who are Christian and now have to spent eternity on earth with down syndrome for instance. You know your way of thinking is totally and utterly warped. How can you be so blind.

  • Elmarie A

    Debbie

    Did you hear about Kobus van Rensburg when he appeared on The Carte Blanche Tv program perhaps?

    Oh and note Kobus says this below: ‘Or as Romans 2:7 says, we must seek immortality. Now we are not made to die, that’s right. Everybody fights death. We are not made to die.’

    Well well can you see what I see Debbie, clearly Kobus uses half quoted Scripture like you did. You know it is just so sad that people like Kobus van Rensburg has mislead so many people. I hate the sin’s that people like he commit. Romans 12:9

    The actual Scripture reads : Romans 2:7 (Amplified Bible) 7 To those who by patient persistence in well-doing [[a]springing from piety] seek [unseen but sure] glory and honor and [[b]the eternal blessedness of] immortality, He will give eternal life.

    A part of this program as transcribed:
    Healing the People?
    Date: 21 August 2005 12:00
    Show: Carte Blanche

    Kobus: ‘And if we are not the generation that is not going to break through, there is a generation that shall not die’.

    Paul: ‘Mmm. Ha, ha, ha. Now that’s interesting. But I think Christianity really embraces death. And Paul says for me to live is for Christ to die again. I would much rather, in fact, die and go to heaven.’

    Kobus: ‘Or as Romans 2:7 says, we must seek immortality. Now we are not made to die, that’s right. Everybody fights death. We are not made to die.’

    Paul: ‘But I don’t think that is what is at the heart of Christianity. I don’t think Christianity can be reduced to the healing of physical ailment.’

    But Kobus has found a way to spread his healing touch far afield. Spirit Word prints thousands of so-called ‘Kobus cloths’ a month – blessed and signed by him. On the flipside they advertise the TV channel and Spirit Word contacts.

    Ruda: ‘Isn’t that a bit of a gimmick, if not a flyer, that you are handing out?’

    Kobus: ‘I think we see more miracles with the cloths than with people coming to the meetings.’

    And for an electronic blessing, you can place your hand on his handprint on the website or, just get anointed through your TV…

    Kobus: ‘So in the name of the Lord Jesus I anoint you.’

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amanda

    >> Debbie, I do not hear anything except the blasted vuvuzela’s and that is not it.

    Hahaha, me too, what a coincidence…

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda/Deborah (Discerning the World)

    And them blasted vuvuzela’s not good Yikes!! just look what they do to me.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Carte Blanche thingie on Kobus van Rensburg here as well. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/06/kobus-van-rensburg-self-anointed-prophet/

  • Debbie

    [DELETED]

  • Debbie

    [DELETED]

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    I utterly reject the kingdom of this world.

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” (Joh 18:36)

    There is only one Gospel:

    For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. (1Co 15:3-5)

    Do you count your false gospel as fruit?

    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal 1:8-12)

    I’ll stand with the Word of God:

    For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
    (Phi 1:21)

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    Sorry. No nastiness intended. But jealous of what? You have your treasure here on earth that is going to be burned. I look forward to a new heaven and a new earth and a new city:

    But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2Pe 3:10-13)

    Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Rev 21:1-8)

  • Amanda

    Debbie

    Be warned. You are not a christ in the flesh:

    And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. (2Jo 1:6-11)

  • Robbie

    Amanda.

    Advert in last week’s local newspaper (Klerksdorp).

    “Salvation is just around the corner” = “Come to Spirit World Ministries…” And this came from another supporter and many others has put Kobus on that pedestal.

    …..oh the veil of pride that blinds the nation

  • Jo-Ann

    Touch not my annointed and do my prophets no harm!!!!!!!!

  • Amanda

    Jo-Ann

    Are you saying that Kobus is anointed and a true prophet? If so, see his prophecies here.

    Come on in and begin to sing
    Of the glory of the living One staying on the inside of you

    Remember, you’re with Me in My throne
    Together we will reign and we will rule
    On this earth and in this day

    It’s time to press in and step right inside of Me
    For it’s in the Christ that you live and move and have your being

    You’re not of this world, you are from a different kind
    You’ve got the Christ-life rising up on the inside of you

    You can only realise – on the inside of you, you are rising to the fullness, the stature
    Nothing less than Christ’s own size

    Is Kobus a christ? Is he the same size as Jesus Christ? Does he reign on the throne with God? Or are these all false prophecies?

  • Elmarie A

    Jo-Ann

    Touch not my annointed and do my prophets no harm!!!!!!!!

    And who appointed your prophets ?
    Do you know that these self appointed prophets are scamsters? They deceive and lie to people. Jo-Ann do you know what the word discernment mean in a Biblical context?

    I will repeat Deborah’s question to Debbie to you as well.

    What do you have to say to children born deformed who are Christian and now have to spent eternity on earth with down syndrome for instance. You know your way of thinking is totally and utterly warped. How can you be so blind.

    Jo-Ann will you please go read in the Bible about False Prophets. Then come tell us if you believe what is written about this in the Bible. It should keep you busy for some time.

  • Elmarie A

    Jo-Ann

    You have 10 questions to answer. Please answer these questions honestly.

  • Jo-Ann

    Oh there is no question that Prophet Kobus is an annointed prophet of God.
    I cannot understand why you have this anger and doubt about Prophet Kobus an his ministry. What if you are wrong about him. Do you really want to face the wrath of God for trying to hurt a prophet of God. (Just by-the-way there is no way that you can touch him – His boss will sort you out)

  • Amanda

    Jo-Ann

    The way it looks to me, these prophecies claim that Kobus is equal to Jesus Christ. What is your interpretation?

  • Elmarie A

    Jo-Ann

    Last chance is over you did not answer any of the 10 questions. In fact you have not read anything on this whole page. We deal with people like you everyday. Your ears are closed and you are blind. Go talk your nonsense elsewhere now ok. Don’t come back your comments will be deleted. You are wasting our time with your little games.

    Titus 3:10 (Amplified Bible)
    10[As for] a man who is factious [a heretical sectarian and cause of divisions], after admonishing him a first and second time, reject [him from your fellowship and have nothing more to do with him],

  • Jo-Ann

    Admin Edit (DELETED: Insulting piece removed) When we are given our immortal or glorified bodies hen all things will be made perfect. God wont leave sickness and disease – death and imperfection will be swallowed up. Why dont we meet and speak face-to-face or are you too scared?

  • Elmarie A

    Jo-Ann

    Told you no MORE!! Nope Sorry we don’t not do meetings. No desire to meet with you.

    Jo-Ann Scared of what?

    I say again your comments will be Deleted. Stop your insults please!!

  • Jo-Ann

    Admin Edited (Deleted)

  • Tessa

    Watch Spirit Word (Edited this is not an advertising page) and watch my Pastor in action.

    (Edit)
    Nope Tessa or is it Jo-Ann

  • Elmarie A

    Oh my word. You gotta be kidding me. So let me get it right? Tessa or aka Jo-Ann thinks this is a page for advertising lol lol

    No thanks and Cheers Tessa aka Jo-Ann.

    Take care and do not be deceived please.

    Luke 21:7-9 (New International Version)
    7″Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?” 8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

  • Tessa

    (DELETED) told you Tessa aka Jo-Ann.

  • Amanda

    Tessa

    May I ask you the same question I asked Debbie and Jo-Ann. Take a look at the prophesies from your pastor’s website. The way it looks to me, these prophecies claim that Kobus is equal to Jesus Christ. What is your interpretation?

  • Jo-Ann

    Admin ( Deleted this part of comment )- and yes we are all getting younger.
    Much love and His abundant grace,
    Debbie, Jo-Ann, Tessa and all at Edit(This is not place for you to advertise false churches). Edit (Removed)

  • Elmarie A

    Jo-Ann/Tessa/Debbie

    No more Comments from you will be allowed. You are no longer welcome on this blog. We are tired of your Insults and senseless babble. You have shown your false believes clear enough and that is ………………….the END thank you.

    Please read the about page of this blog.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Thank you for the link and Yes I do agree with you, I see what you are saying Yikes!!!

    These words in the Word comes to mind :

    John 12:39-41 (Amplified Bible)

    39Therefore they could not believe [they were unable to believe]. For Isaiah has also said,
    40He has blinded their eyes and hardened and benumbed their [callous, degenerated] hearts [He has made their minds dull], to keep them from seeing with their eyes and understanding with their hearts and minds and repenting and turning to Me to heal them.
    41Isaiah said this because he saw His glory and spoke of Him.(A)

  • Tessa

    The truth hurts doesnt it!!!!

  • Amanda

    Tessa

    Your true and anointed prophet seems to claim equality with Jesus Christ. Deal with that ‘truth’ or leave.

  • Elmarie A

    Tessa

    “Is there such a thing as absolute truth / universal truth?”

    Answer: In order to understand absolute or universal truth, we must begin by defining truth. Truth, according to the dictionary, is “conformity to fact or actuality; a statement proven to be or accepted as true.” Some people would say that there is no true reality, only perceptions and opinions. Others would argue that there must be some absolute reality or truth.

    One view says that there are no absolutes that define reality. Those who hold this view believe everything is relative to something else, and thus there can be no actual reality. Because of that, there are ultimately no moral absolutes, no authority for deciding if an action is positive or negative, right or wrong. This view leads to “situational ethics,” the belief that what is right or wrong is relative to the situation. There is no right or wrong; therefore, whatever feels or seems right at the time and in that situation is right. Of course, situational ethics leads to a subjective, “whatever feels good” mentality and lifestyle, which has a devastating effect on society and individuals. This is postmodernism, creating a society that regards all values, beliefs, lifestyles, and truth claims as equally valid.

    The other view holds that there are indeed absolute realities and standards that define what is true and what is not. Therefore, actions can be determined to be either right or wrong by how they measure up to those absolute standards. If there are no absolutes, no reality, chaos ensues. Take the law of gravity, for instance. If it were not an absolute, we could not be certain we could stand or sit in one place until we decided to move. Or if two plus two did not always equal four, the effects on civilization would be disastrous. Laws of science and physics would be irrelevant, and commerce would be impossible. What a mess that would be! Thankfully, two plus two does equal four. There is absolute truth, and it can be found and understood.

    To make the statement that there is no absolute truth is illogical. Yet, today, many people are embracing a cultural relativism that denies any type of absolute truth. A good question to ask people who say, “There is no absolute truth” is this: “Are you absolutely sure of that?” If they say “yes,” they have made an absolute statement—which itself implies the existence of absolutes. They are saying that the very fact there is no absolute truth is the one and only absolute truth.

    Beside the problem of self-contradiction, there are several other logical problems one must overcome to believe that there are no absolute or universal truths. One is that all humans have limited knowledge and finite minds and, therefore, cannot logically make absolute negative statements. A person cannot logically say, “There is no God” (even though many do so), because, in order to make such a statement, he would need to have absolute knowledge of the entire universe from beginning to end. Since that is impossible, the most anyone can logically say is “With the limited knowledge I have, I do not believe there is a God.”

    Another problem with the denial of absolute truth/universal truth is that it fails to live up to what we know to be true in our own consciences, our own experiences, and what we see in the real world. If there is no such thing as absolute truth, then there is nothing ultimately right or wrong about anything. What might be “right” for you does not mean it is “right” for me. While on the surface this type of relativism seems to be appealing, what it means is that everybody sets his own rules to live by and does what he thinks is right. Inevitably, one person’s sense of right will soon clash with another’s. What happens if it is “right” for me to ignore traffic lights, even when they are red? I put many lives at risk. Or I might think it is right to steal from you, and you might think it is not right. Clearly, our standards of right and wrong are in conflict. If there is no absolute truth, no standard of right and wrong that we are all accountable to, then we can never be sure of anything. People would be free to do whatever they want—murder, rape, steal, lie, cheat, etc., and no one could say those things would be wrong. There could be no government, no laws, and no justice, because one could not even say that the majority of the people have the right to make and enforce standards upon the minority. A world without absolutes would be the most horrible world imaginable.

    From a spiritual standpoint, this type of relativism results in religious confusion, with no one true religion and no way of having a right relationship with God. All religions would therefore be false because they all make absolute claims regarding the afterlife. It is not uncommon today for people to believe that two diametrically opposed religions could both be equally “true,” even though both religions claim to have the only way to heaven or teach two totally opposite “truths.” People who do not believe in absolute truth ignore these claims and embrace a more tolerant universalism that teaches all religions are equal and all roads lead to heaven. People who embrace this worldview vehemently oppose evangelical Christians who believe the Bible when it says that Jesus is “the way, and the truth, and the life” and that He is the ultimate manifestation of truth and the only way one can get to heaven (John 14:6).

    Tolerance has become the one cardinal virtue of the postmodern society, the one absolute, and, therefore, intolerance is the only evil. Any dogmatic belief—especially a belief in absolute truth—is viewed as intolerance, the ultimate sin. Those who deny absolute truth will often say that it is all right to believe what you want, as long as you do not try to impose your beliefs on others. But this view itself is a belief about what is right and wrong, and those who hold this view most definitely do try to impose it on others. They set up a standard of behavior which they insist others follow, thereby violating the very thing they claim to uphold—another self-contradicting position. Those who hold such a belief simply do not want to be accountable for their actions. If there is absolute truth, then there are absolute standards of right and wrong, and we are accountable to those standards. This accountability is what people are really rejecting when they reject absolute truth.

    The denial of absolute truth/universal truth and the cultural relativism that comes with it are the logical result of a society that has embraced the theory of evolution as the explanation for life. If naturalistic evolution is true, then life has no meaning, we have no purpose, and there cannot be any absolute right or wrong. Man is then free to live as he pleases and is accountable to no one for his actions. Yet no matter how much sinful men deny the existence of God and absolute truth, they still will someday stand before Him in judgment. The Bible declares that “…what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:19-22).

    Is there any evidence for the existence of absolute truth? Yes. First, there is the human conscience, that certain “something” within us that tells us the world should be a certain way, that some things are right and some are wrong. Our conscience convinces us there is something wrong with suffering, starvation, rape, pain, and evil, and it makes us aware that love, generosity, compassion, and peace are positive things for which we should strive. This is universally true in all cultures in all times. The Bible describes the role of the human conscience in Romans 2:14-16: “Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”

    The second evidence for the existence of absolute truth is science. Science is simply the pursuit of knowledge, the study of what we know and the quest to know more. Therefore, all scientific study must by necessity be founded upon the belief that there are objective realities existing in the world and these realities can be discovered and proven. Without absolutes, what would there be to study? How could one know that the findings of science are real? In fact, the very laws of science are founded on the existence of absolute truth.

    The third evidence for the existence of absolute truth/universal truth is religion. All the religions of the world attempt to give meaning and definition to life. They are born out of mankind’s desire for something more than simple existence. Through religion, humans seek God, hope for the future, forgiveness of sins, peace in the midst of struggle, and answers to our deepest questions. Religion is really evidence that mankind is more than just a highly evolved animal. It is evidence of a higher purpose and of the existence of a personal and purposeful Creator who implanted in man the desire to know Him. And if there is indeed a Creator, then He becomes the standard for absolute truth, and it is His authority that establishes that truth.

    Fortunately, there is such a Creator, and He has revealed His truth to us through His Word, the Bible. Knowing absolute truth/universal truth is only possible through a personal relationship with the One who claims to be the Truth—Jesus Christ. Jesus claimed to be the only way, the only truth, the only life and the only path to God (John 14:6). The fact that absolute truth does exist points us to the truth that there is a sovereign God who created the heavens and the earth and who has revealed Himself to us in order that we might know Him personally through His Son Jesus Christ. That is the absolute truth.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/absolute-truth.html

  • Elmarie A

    Tessa

    Very important Biblical points to ponder on for you.

    “What does the Bible say about anger?”

    Answer: Handling anger is an important topic. Christian counselors report that 50 percent of people who come in for counseling have problems dealing with anger. Anger can shatter communication and tear apart relationships, and it ruins both the joy and health of many. Sadly, people tend to justify their anger instead of accepting responsibility for it. Everyone struggles, to varying degrees, with anger. Thankfully, God’s Word contains principles regarding how to handle anger in a godly manner, and how to overcome sinful anger.

    Anger is not always sin. There is a type of anger of which the Bible approves, often called “righteous indignation.” God is angry (Psalm 7:11; Mark 3:5), and believers are commanded to be angry (Ephesians 4:26). Two Greek words are used in the New Testament for our English word “anger.” One means “passion, energy” and the other means “agitated, boiling.” Biblically, anger is God-given energy intended to help us solve problems. Examples of biblical anger include Paul’s confronting Peter because of his wrong example in Galatians 2:11-14, David’s being upset over hearing Nathan the prophet sharing an injustice (2 Samuel 12), and Jesus’ anger over how some of the Jews had defiled worship at God’s temple in Jerusalem (John 2:13-18). Notice that none of these examples of anger involved self-defense, but a defense of others or of a principle.

    Anger turns to sin when it is selfishly motivated (James 1:20), when God’s goal is distorted (1 Corinthians 10:31), or when anger is allowed to linger (Ephesians 4:26-27). Instead of using the energy generated by anger to attack the problem at hand, it is the person who is attacked. Ephesians 4:15-19 says we are to speak the truth in love and use our words to build others up, not allow rotten or destructive words to pour from our lips. Unfortunately, this poisonous speech is a common characteristic of fallen man (Romans 3:13-14). Anger becomes sin when it is allowed to boil over without restraint, resulting in a scenario in which hurt is multiplied (Proverbs 29:11), leaving devastation in its wake, often with irreparable consequences. Anger also becomes sin when the angry one refuses to be pacified, holds a grudge, or keeps it all inside (Ephesians 4:26-27). This can cause depression and irritability over little things, often things unrelated to the underlying problem.

    We can handle anger biblically by recognizing and admitting our selfish anger and/or our wrong handling of anger as sin (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9). This confession should be both to God and to those who have been hurt by our anger. We should not minimize the sin by excusing it or blame-shifting.

    We can handle anger biblically by seeing God in the trial. This is especially important when people have done something to offend us. James 1:2-4, Romans 8:28-29, and Genesis 50:20 all point to the fact that God is sovereign and in complete control over every circumstance and person that enters our path. Nothing happens to us that He does not cause or allow. And as these verses share, God is a good God (Psalm 145:8, 9, 17) who allows all things in our lives for our good and the good of others. Reflecting on this truth until it moves from our heads to our hearts will alter how we react to those who hurt us.

    We can handle anger biblically by making room for God’s wrath. This is especially important in cases of injustice, when “evil” men abuse “innocent” people. Genesis 50:19 and Romans 12:19 both tell us to not play God. God is righteous and just, and we can trust Him who knows all and sees all to act justly (Genesis 18:25).

    We can handle anger biblically by not returning evil for good (Genesis 50:21; Romans 12:21). This is key to converting our anger into love. As our actions flow from our hearts, so also our hearts can be altered by our actions (Matthew 5:43-48). That is, we can change our feelings toward another by changing how we choose to act toward that person.

    We can handle anger biblically by communicating to solve the problem. There are four basic rules of communication shared in Ephesians 4:15, 25-32:

    1) Be honest and speak (Ephesians 4:15, 25). People cannot read our minds. We must speak the truth in love.

    2) Stay current (Ephesians 4:26-27). We must not allow what is bothering us to build up until we lose control. Dealing with and sharing what is bothering us before it gets to that point is important.

    3) Attack the problem, not the person (Ephesians 4:29, 31). Along this line, we must remember the importance of keeping the volume of our voices low (Proverbs 15:1).

    4) Act, not react (Ephesians 4:31-32). Because of our fallen nature, our first impulse is often a sinful one (v. 31). The time spent in “counting to ten” should be used to reflect upon the godly way to respond (v. 32) and to remind ourselves how anger is to be used to solve problems and not create bigger ones.

    Finally, we must act to solve our part of the problem (Acts 12:18). We cannot control how others act or respond, but we can make the changes that need to be made on our part. Overcoming a temper is not accomplished overnight. But through prayer, Bible study, and reliance upon God’s Holy Spirit, ungodly anger can be overcome. Just as we may have allowed anger to become entrenched in our lives by habitual practice, we must also practice responding correctly until it becomes a habit itself.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/anger.html

  • Elmarie A

    Tessa
    July 2nd, 2010 at 9:33 am

    The truth hurts doesnt it!!!!

    Right views of God’s truth are not an intellectual attainment, but a blessing bestowed on us by God. It is written, “a man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven”
    (John 3:27). No matter how legibly a letter may be written, if the recipient is blind he cannot read it…

    John 3:27 (Amplified Bible)
    27 John answered, A man can receive nothing [he can claim nothing, he can [a]take unto himself nothing] except as it has been granted to him from heaven. [A man must be content to receive the gift which is given him from heaven; there is no other source.]

    Psalm 40:10-12 (Amplified Bible)

    10 I have not concealed Your righteousness within my heart; I have proclaimed Your faithfulness and Your salvation. I have not hid away Your steadfast love and Your truth from the great assembly.(A)
    11 Withhold not Your tender mercy from me, O Lord; let Your loving-kindness and Your truth continually preserve me!
    12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about; my iniquities have taken such hold on me that I am not able to look up. They are more than the hairs of my head, and my heart has failed me and forsaken me.

  • Tessa

    We are are Christ on the earth, I am Tessa Christ deal with that truth!!!! If you dont wanna be like Christ, totaly up to you, I’ll take it…..

  • Amanda

    “Tessa Christ” you are not. Repent and receive forgiveness of sins in the name of Jesus Christ Luk 24:46-47.

    Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phi 2:9-11)

    let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead–by him this man is standing before you well. This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Act 4:10-12)

    And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. (Mat 24:4-5)

    And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
    (Mat 24:11)

    “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior. I declared and saved and proclaimed, when there was no strange god among you; and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and I am God. (Isa 43:10-12)

    “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! (Rev 22:12-20)

    Tessa, repent! Time is against you and you are not immortal. Jesus Christ died for your sins to save you from the wrath of God against you. Put your faith in Him!

  • Jo-Ann

    Admin EDITED (Deleted this comment and blacklisted this person) Toxic!

  • Amanda

    And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, (Heb 9:27)

    There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    (Mat 13:50)

    Repent! Jesus Christ died for you.

  • Elmarie A

    Jo-Ann

    oh my word did you hear your self? tst ….tst..and I am speechless ……………..Claiming You are Jesus Christ is absurd and non Biblical. Shame on you Jo-Ann !!!

    You are Banned and blacklisted including the rest of your gang.
    All future comments will auto DELETED………the End.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Very true words I echo your words :-)

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    You know these kinda things makes one think, what is the world coming too. Very Very sad indeed.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    My question is this can this be so that people are so blind and deaf. Yikes!

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    Well what shall we say about Life and Immortality – John 11

  • Elmarie A

    Also Exposing Kobus Van Rensburg as a False teacher/prophet

    Kobus van Rensburg (a.k.a. Prophet Kobus van Rensburg), together with his wife Annalise, are the senior pastors and sole founders of Spirit Word Ministries, situated in Stilfontein in the North-West Province of South Africa. Van Rensburg is a self- appointed prophet and his ministry focuses on signs, miracles and wonders and also teaches everything from Restoration or Dominion theology to prosperity teaching. He claims that during the last week of January 2000, the Holy Spirit fell upon him in a very special way while visiting Prophet T.B. Joshua in Lagos, Nigeria and he also claims to heal people of cancer, HIV and AIDS on a weekly basis. Spirit Word Ministries (formerly Lofdal Ministries) was started in 1985 and now has a Christian school, Bible school and various other programmes as well as a regular television broadcast in South Africa. He claims to be an anointed of God.

    Coming Revival
    kobus van rensburg Kobus van Rensburg
    Kobus van Rensburg teaches:
    “Only when the all things have been restored will Jesus come again. He is going to stay in heaven at the right hand of the Father. From God’s presence must first come times of refreshing. That refreshing will cause the restoration. If we seek God, we will get revival. If revival comes, restoration of all the things of which the prophets of old spoke about will come and then Jesus will return.”
    (Kobus van Rensburg, Spirit Word Ministries website, TIMES OF REVIVAL)

    The Bible Teaches:
    This is Restoration/Dominion theology which is totally false and advocates that Christians should take power of the earth, create dominion and then, only then, will Jesus come back. Not only does this belittle and demean our Saviour, but it makes men into little demi-gods. What is fundamental to understanding the last days before Jesus comes back, is the fact that Jesus Himself said there would be an APOSTASY, a falling away, before He comes back. NOT a Revival!

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” – 2 Timothy 4:3-4

    “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.” – 2 Peter 2:1-3

    “An astonishing and horrible thing has been committed in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own power; and My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end?” – Jeremiah 5:30-31

    Rapture for Unbelievers
    kobus van rensburg Kobus van Rensburg
    Kobus van Rensburg teaches:
    “THE DISOBEDIENT ARE SWEPT AWAY… Blessed is the servant who is busy. For the unfaithful servant it will be like a thief and he will be put out. In the days of Noah, the disobedient ones and unbelievers were swept away and the faithful ones were left behind and inherited the earth. In the days of the coming of the Son of Man there will be two in the field. It means that they are servants. One will be taken and one left. There will also be two at the mill, so they are working and one will be take and one left. Who will be taken? He then says the one that is a busy, faithful servant will be blessed. He will set him over the work. He will be left in the field and at the mill. The unfaithful ones will be taken out and put out where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth. Most people will be shocked now because they think that they will be taken away. It is time for the church to get peace. The ones that are busy serving will be blessed. He will be left in charge of the work. He will be left to work more and better.”
    (Kobus van Rensburg, Spirit Word Ministries website, RAPTURE – TRUE OR FALSE?)

    The Bible Teaches:
    “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
    – 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

    “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.” – Revelation 3:10

    “then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment.” – 2 Peter 2:9

    “Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.” – 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

    “and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.” 1 Thessalonians 1:10

    Kobus van Rensburg
    Signs, Wonders and Miracles
    This ministry is reaching out to the whole of South Africa and beyond its borders with Signs, Miracles, Wonders and foundation Ministry, Tapes and Videos, an excellent and anointed worship team, as well as Television broadcasting.
    (Spirit Word Ministries website)

    The Bible Teaches:
    Signs, miracles and wonders are absolutely Biblical when they happen in the way described in the Bible, but those things are far secondary to the Word of God and should never be the focus of any ministry. Miracles in the New Testament always happened after the Word was preached, to confirm God’s Word of salvation, never before. Jesus Christ never had miracle crusades, wonder meetings and weekly healing services! A true Christian would heed the countless warnings of Christ concerning the Last days:

    “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.” – Mark 13:22-23

    “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” – 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

  • cecilia

    Please to meet you Tessa Christ. My, it’s not many times in this life that I’ve met somebody with this surname… no, I’m lying – this is a first. IF THIS IS NOT YOUR SURNAME, please read the last part of this comment.

    note to DTW: just my thoughts: 1)should we allow blasphemous comments on this blog?
    2) can’t we send Cobus’ followers’ comments through to him so he can see the type of language and thought lines (believes?) people who follow his teachings use+have?

    ok, seen I’ve been away for some time, please forgive this lengthy comment…

    >>”Jo-Ann, July 1st – His boss will sort you out”
    so you’ve said it at last! This man has a business to run, because he has a boss. if you meant that “God” is his boss, I don’t know where you get that in Scripture? other men on earth usually call their wives their boss jokingly…

    >>“Jo-Ann, July 1st – When we are given our IMMORTAL or GLORIFIED BODIES”
    on earth all things that begins, have an end. EXCEPT MAN’s SPIRIT. If we say anything contradictory to this, we make God Almighty (Creator God in this instance) a liar – He declared in Genesis that men will surely die if they eat from the tree of knowledge… and so have ALL since then, except 3 (and for some people 4, for argument’s sake…).

    I looked for the words “glorified bodies” in ALL available Bible translations, and could not find it.

    Romans 2:7 says – “To those who by persistence in doing good SEEK glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” So you might SEEK immortality, but you will be given eternal life, not here on earth, but hereafter.

    You are also pointing to 1Cor 15 – but PLEASE read the context?! Vs 35-58. In verse 35(b) it says: “What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.” ALL you have mentioned is subject to this Word: “42 So will it be with the resurrection OF THE DEAD”.

    1 Tim 6 says this:
    “13In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you
    14to keep this command (refer back to verse 12 “Fight the good fight of the faith”) without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    15which God will bring about in his own time—GOD, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
    16WHO ALONE IS IMMORTAL and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.”

    >>“Jo-Ann , July 1st – and yes we are all getting younger”
    You must be kidding me! Next birthday gift: a good old fashioned mirror…

    >>”Tessa , July 2nd – The truth hurts does’nt it!”
    What truth? THIS blog is not a chat-site…. Neither is it a “messenger”-site. If you say something like THIS one line six words “sentence”s, at least point to what exactly it is you’re talking about? Or keep quiet…

    >>”Tessa , July 2nd – “ your comment on July second refer:
    YOU are blaspheming GOD ALMIGHTY, and the LORD JESUS CHRIST!
    Christ means “the anointed One of God”, “savior”, “messiah”, “deliverer”. I just can’t see from your comments how this could be applicable on you.

    >>”be like Christ” ? if being like Christ is derived from your comments, I’d rather not…
    Come to think of it: you’d better sell everything you own and hit the road. if you would accept some advice from the Word of God, you’re supposed to take NOTHING with you, not even your purse!

    “How can I become more like Christ?”
    Answer: God’s desire for all who know Him is for us to become more like Christ. We do this by first growing in our knowledge of Christ. It stands to reason that we cannot grow to be like someone we don’t know. The deeper our knowledge of Christ, the deeper our understanding of Him, and the more like Him we become. Among other reasons, we are to know and understand Christ so that we will be secure in the faith.

    The Apostle Paul reiterates this truth in Ephesians 4:14-16: “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.” This fact is repeated once more in 2 Peter 3:17-18: “Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”
    These passages show us that growing in the knowledge of Christ will preserve us from faith-destroying error.

    Of course, knowledge alone will not produce a Christlike character. The knowledge we gain from God’s Word must impact our hearts and convict us of the need to obey what we have learned. Romans 12:1-2 tells us emphatically that the process of filling our minds with the knowledge of God not only brings us closer to Christlikeness, but obedience to that knowledge aligns us with the perfect will of God: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.”

    The natural consequence of knowing and obeying God is that He becomes greater and greater, while we become less and less as we yield control of our lives to Him. Just as John the Baptist knew that “[Jesus] must increase, but I must decrease” (John 3:30), so the Christian grows to reflect more of Christ and less of his own nature. Luke sums it up best when he describes what Jesus told His disciples: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it” (Luke 9:23-24). The cross was an instrument of death, and Jesus encourages us to take up our cross in order to put to death our old sin nature upon it. God wants us to forget about this world and all its temporary pleasures and be obedient to His Word. Jesus is the living Word (John 1:1), and the Bible is God’s written Word. Therefore, conforming to the Word of God is conforming to Christ.

    It is important to realize that becoming more like Christ starts by receiving Him as Savior from our sins. Then we grow in our knowledge of God by reading the Bible daily, studying it, and being obedient to what it says. This process causes us to grow and occurs over an entire lifetime in Christ. Only when we have entered Heaven for eternity with God does this process reach its culmination.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/more-like-Christ.html

  • Elmarie A

    One Mentor of Jo-Ann’s. And they mislead the young straight to hell. Oh it breaks my heart. So so sad indeed.We can only pray for the deceived

  • Elmarie A

    cecilia

    Ja it has become pretty obvious that Debbie, Tessa and Jo-Ann pretty much believe very strongly in the Name it and claim it theology, very sad indeed.

    I HAVE WHAT I THINK AND SAY I HAVE

    (SPEAKING THINGS INTO EXISTENCE)

    Power has always been attractive and one doesn’t have to be religious to want it. Many are trained to scan the scriptures for God’s promises then speak the word of faith for it to materialize. While the Bible does show those who had faith for a miracle and healed, this is not a general promise where all one has to do is have faith enough to move the mountain and it occurs. Jesus said it was faith only of a mustard seed that is needed. Its not the amount of faith as if it needs to hit the Richter scale to be effective in the natural realm. It is true faith to trust and believe in a promise. Its faith in the God who can move mountains, not the power of our faith.

    Well known Pentecostal, David Wilkerson, writes in the late Keith Green’s Last Days Ministries newsletter, that he too has seen many Christians “throughout our nation, whose faith is shipwrecked” because of the “faith” movement. He writes that they began to “believe that getting every desire of the heart depended simply on getting their formulas correct. They were challenged to launch out in God for prosperity, perfect health, and whatever else their minds could conceive. “Conceive then believe. That includes removing from your vocabulary any negative thoughts, words, or confessions.”

    Interesting that James says though our tongue is a small member yet it boasts great things. Many word of faith teachers give testimony of all the things they received or made happen by speaking words with faith. Jesus said out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. To want and covet shows what is inside these people’s hearts. I’m not saying everything is spent on themselves, but listen to the attitude and what they are saying, its a dead giveaway.

    To word faith teachers faith is a force, a substance that is unseen, but can be tapped into, it is putty in the hands of the user even if they are a believer or not. it works the same for all. Confession brings possession.

    Positive confession…

    Your confession is your possession

    Does God approve of such a thing?

    Fred Price says, “When 1 first got saved they didn’t tell me I could do anything. What they told me to do was that whenever I prayed I should always say, ‘The will of the Lord be done.,’ Now, doesn’t that sound humble? It does. Sounds like humility, it’s really stupidity. I mean, you know, really, we insult God. 1 mean, we really do insult our Heavenly Father. We do; we really insult Him without even realizing it. If you have to say, ‘If it be thy will or’ Thy will be done’-if you have to say that, then you’re calling God a fool because he’s the One that fold us to ask…. If God’s gonna give me what He wants me to have, then it doesn’t matter what I ask. I’m only gonna get what God wants me to have. So that’s an insult to God’s intelligence.” (Ever Increasing Faith” program on TBN November 16 ,1990)

    Benny Hinn has said “Never, ever, ever go the Lord and say, ‘If it be thy will….’ Don’t allow such faith-destroying words to be spoken from your mouth” (Rise and Be Healed! 1991, p.47-48).

    If its not God’s will then whose is it? Yours!

    This practice has commonly been practiced in occult groups and various Eastern pagan religions such as the Buddhist sect Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism.

    Our faith is not what we speak using incantations from the word, but in the word and the one who spoke the word. Praying in Jesus name is not a warranty to receive everything we say and we can certainly thank Him for that. He doesn’t want spoiled little children, but mature heavenly minded people who look at His Word and are willing to be conformed to His likeness even if it’s uncomfortable. Those that can trust him in His decisions He can entrust to answer. To pray in his name means “in his authority” according to his will, to ask in the understanding of what God wants to accomplish on earth. Romans 8.27: “ And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.” We need to line up our will with His, then we can be confident he hears us because it is what he wants to accomplish. So you must have the right kind of faith mixed with patience and trust to be “in the faith “ and be a true son of Abraham. The faith Movements faith is not “Biblical faith”, it is defective and flawed, because it is self- focused on our wants, not trusting in God’s decisions. Until they learn this simple biblical lesson they will continue to expand their errors being deceived and deceiving others!

    http://www.letusreason.org/Wf8.htm

  • Amanda

    Elmarie

    Thanks for the link. I see pastor Debbie is having an Immortality conference at their church with Worship, Word and Wonders following.

    Kobus said:

    Rapture for Unbelievers … Blessed is the servant who is busy. For the unfaithful servant it will be like a thief and he will be put out. In the days of Noah, the disobedient ones and unbelievers were swept away and the faithful ones were left behind and inherited the earth.

    Others agree with him:

    The Plan

    Alice Bailey, in an address at the Arcane School Conference in Geneva, Switzerland, suggested that the “Shamballa force”-the force from the invisible dimensions led by the Lord Maitreya-will be “destructive.” It will also, she said, eject unbelievers from the earth: “The decision to release the Shamballa force during this century into direct contact with the human kingdom is one of the final and most compelling acts of preparation for the New Age. The Shamballa force is destructive and ejective … inspiring new understanding of The Plan….It is this force … which will bring about that tremendous crisis, the initiation of the race into the mysteries of the ages. (Alice Bailey, The Externalizing the Mysteries, pt.1 p.171)

    Guess who the unbelievers are? When the Church is removed and they think it is because of the new age Christ it is only then their plan will take shape for a new world order. It was Hitler who spoke of a “thousand year Reich” carrying the concept of the biblical Millennium. One will have the choice to accept the New Age Messiah, receive the initiation or they will face the other alternative of being ejected. This means destruction. This doesn’t sound like the love and tolerance we have been hearing from those who criticize the Christians for teaching there is only one Christ.

    Cecilia

    You asked:

    note to DTW: just my thoughts: 1)should we allow blasphemous comments on this blog?
    2) can’t we send Cobus’ followers’ comments through to him so he can see the type of language and thought lines (believes?) people who follow his teachings use+have?

    1) Only to expose what rank New Agers posing as Christians say about themselves.
    2) He would be proud, because that is what he has taught them.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    I see pastor Debbie is having an Immortality conference at their church with Worship, Word and Wonders following.

    Yip and advertised it on her Facebook page also. yuuuurr kiding me right pastor?

  • Esther

    Admin (DELETED) Edited (Esther please we support Biblical believes only. I see you are part of Tessa,Jo-Ann and etc. We can not post your non Biblical believes. )

  • Amanda

    Esther

    Your are welcome to you personal opinion. I agree with you that Kobus is a true New Age prophet. This, however, is a blog for Christians and we hold to the authority of Scripture to determine what is truth and what is a lie. Kobus’ prophecies do not line up with Scripture and therefor Christians reject it. The Bible teaches that you will die and face judgment. And the verdict will be ‘guilty’ for breaking God’s Law. And you will be punished. Jesus Christ died for your sins. Put your faith in Him to save you from the wrath of God and He will. You are helpless to save yourself, no matter how hard you try not to believe it. Repent from your utter rebellion and receive forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ, our Saviour.

  • Margaret

    Why are you people all so angry at Prophet Kobus. Has he done anything to hurt you personally. All I can see from this man of God is truth. He walks in the fullness of Christ – which is how we all should live. He allows God to be God by trusting Him to do all the healings.
    Is this site nly for people who want to slam people of God or do you allow anyone with a different opininion from you air their opinion.
    I suggest you study your bibles – the bible does not say we all die and face judgement – that is the Torah. The Bible says Rom 8:1 here is therefore, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus…………….

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    Why are you people all so angry at Prophet Kobus

    No one is angry I suggest you study your Bible and learn about False Prophets.Matthew 24:24 Do you know what Discernment is? And while you are at it page up and find my comment “What does the Bible say about anger?

    Has he done anything to hurt you personally

    Kobus van Rensburg is a self appointed false Prophet deceiving many people. Again please read your Bible and learn about Discernment and false prophets please.

    Is this site nly for people who want to slam people of God or do you allow anyone with a different opininion from you air their opinion.

    Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

    I suggest you study your bibles – the bible does not say we all die and face judgement – that is the Torah. The Bible says Rom 8:1 here is therefore, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus…………….

    Oh…My word so are you part of the Debbie, Jo-Ann and Tessa gang. I sure sounds like it. Do you also believe you are Immortal and won’t die ? Nooo you gotta be kidding me.

    What is your opinion about this comment:

    JC June 19th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
    I have read all the above and can say that what I have suspected about Kobus v Rensburg has been confirmed over and over. HE IS A FALSE “SELF PROCLAIMED” PROPHET.

    I have also been financially been ripped-off by followers of Kobus v Rensburg, while proclaiming that they were “Christians” and doing business on “Christian principles”, quoting Bible verses on an ongoing basis (taking it completely out of context) and praying about every decision. Well they thought nothing of it to cheat, tell lies and “steal” from me, so how is that for “Christian principles” and walking with the Bible under the arm?

    Your actions shows what is in your heart.

    Keep up the good work, and let this website be a beacon of light to those lost in false doctrine and prophets. JC
    and also:
    JC
    June 19th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
    JC
    I have also received a “healing” during the time in 1996/7 that I was part of a group of people when the “toronto blessing” (curse in disguise) was doing the rounds in SA. I was prayed for and hands were laid on me, I “received” an “anointing” and my back was “healed”.

    I could stand a few feet away from someone and when I started to “pray” in “tongues” for the person I would feel my hand grow warm and the person would fall backwards to the ground without being touched. Lots of people were healed during our outreaches, but at what cost? So its not something new that KVR also “heals” people. Question is WHO is behind the “healing”?

    Luckily my eyes was opened by what Jacov Prash, Bill Randalls and Dave Hunt said about false prophets and when I repented and turned away from the group and false teachings, I also lost my “healing” and needed surgery to my back (2 x operations 2001, 2002). The Lord will not heal a person and then take the healing away at a later stage! This confirmed that my “healing” was NOT from GOD but from satan, the father of lies and deceit. JC

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    Does any of this happen at the church of Kobus van Rensburg Spirit World Ministries ?

    Animalistic behavior:

    *barking like dogs
    *growling, snarling in Jesus’ name
    *shaking like a mad dog
    *shaking uncontrollably
    *howling like wolves
    *crawling around on hands and knees (also wearing a leash)
    *hissing like snakes
    *clucking like chickens
    *chicken impartation (clucking sounds)
    *sheep impartation
    *oinking like pigs
    *piggy anointing
    *chirping like birds
    *drunken druelers
    *foaming at the mouth

    Holy/Holiness of God:

    *circus holay (holy circus)
    *holy laughter
    *holy intoxication
    *holy whacking teachings
    *holy electricity
    *holy electrical buzz
    *crazy funk worship
    *tingling sensations in hands, arms, and body

    False belief systems within the hyper-Charismatic movement:

    *Word of Faith
    *Manifest Sons of God
    *Dominionism
    *Kingdom Now
    *Latter Rain
    *New Apostolic Reformation
    *Apostolic Movement
    *Restoration Movement
    *Third Wave
    *New Breed
    *Signs and Wonders Movement
    *Toronto Blessing
    *Pensacola Outpouring
    *Lakeland Revival
    *Centering Prayer
    *Contemplative Spirituality
    *Mysticism
    *Indigenous Peoples Movement
    *International Coalition of Apostles

    In what can be best described as savagery in the name of God, the above terms and catch-phrases are the product of twisted minds, and a bi-product of doctrines of demons the Apostle Paul warned about in 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

    Question: Why would anyone who claims to love God turn around and mock, scorn, and blaspheme His holy and precious Name? The Bible provides the answers:

    For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things (Philippians 3:18-19).

    Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived (2 Timothy 3:12-13).

    For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain
    (Titus 1:10-11).
    Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap (Galatians 6:7).

    On the outside, the hyper-Charismatic movement is growing, and has spent years trying to convince Christians that its “apostles,” prophets, teachers, evangelists, and revivalists are legitimate and a “must have” within the body of Christ. But in the background, it has spent years producing a steady stream of male and female heretics, false prophets, and false healers.

    But growth and popularity within what claims to be Christian doesn’t necessarily mean it is sanctioned by God. The hyper-Charismatic movement separated from truth and common sense many years ago. Thus, what appears to be a steady growth and popularity is, in reality, a steady decline and a fulfillment of Scripture:

    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

    If God were their Father, they would love and understand Jesus Christ. Their terms and words would be filled with honor, respect, and humility for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (John 8:42-44). But blasphemers mimic their father, the devil, who was cast out of heaven thousands of years ago. Unless there is repentance, those who blaspheme God will be prevented from entering heaven:

    But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever (Jude 1:10-13).
    Blasphemers present a clear and present danger to the spiritual welfare of the believer, as well as those searching for the real Jesus Christ. The damage caused by these men and women to individuals, families, and the cause of Christ is beyond words.

    If so please take heed and get out of that church please!!
    Read on here and take serious heed please!!

  • Amanda

    Margaret

    You are welcome to air your opinion. Your opinion will be compared to the Word of God. If your opinion is in line with Scripture, we’ll get along well.

    Unfortunately we have a problem already.

    I suggest you study your bibles – the bible does not say we all die and face judgement – that is the Torah.

    Only, it is not:

    And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment (Heb 9:27)

    You say:

    All I can see from this man of God is truth.

    Read through the proclamations taken from your prophet’s website. If he is claiming to be equal to Jesus Christ and that he is reigning with God on the throne, then he is lying. The Bible simply does not teach this.

    There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1)

    That refers to Christians and not to those who claim to be a christ. Kobus is a New Age prophet who walks in christconsciousness.

    Margaret, did you also embrace immortality and are you getting younger like the other christs higher up in the comments thread?

  • Margaret

    I am actually a catholic but I watch the channel and my daughter goes to Spirit Word. A good friend received her healing at Spirit Word. Her leg was to be amputated because of diabetic sores. God stopped the operation and she went to SW and is now completely healed of diabetes. She looks about 20 years younger. I dont understand it all but it is defintely revival and God moving in a mighty way.

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    She looks about 20 years younger.

    Could you supply before and after pictures of this please?

    I dont understand it all but it is defintely revival and God moving in a mighty way.

    Margaret I want to be honest and say I have seen enough footage of SW and that is not the Spirit of God moving there.

    Please read here and take Heed:

    3. The false prophet teaches and does things which cannot be weighed up with the Word of God and which are unscriptural.

    Jesus himself warned against false prophets.

    Matthew 24:4-5, Jesus said to them: “Watch out that no-one deceives you. For many will come in My name claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.” [Christ meaning anointed one.] Matthew 24:11 “..and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.” Matthew 24:24 “For false Christ’s and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible.” 1Timothy 4:1 “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.”
    2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.”

    Sadly the false prophets are not using Jesus, the great prophet, as their example. They are imitating other false prophets. Many actions which are done, for example, slaying in the spirit, to bless bottles of water, or bottles of oil or clothes and to sell it to bless other people, is nothing more than white magic, or charismatic and Roman traditions which have been passed on but which are not biblical. False prophets (operate in the spirit) to remove the source of sickness in the spiritual realm that causes the sickness. The false prophet does not always lay hands on the sick person, he often just stretches his hand and that person is usually slain in the spirit. Is this what the Bible teaches us? [Deborah’s note: A few noted ministers are seen blowing on people to impart the ‘healing’ or ‘anointing’, which is something that is done in witchcraft circles as well.]

    The Bible does speak about anointing oil and laying hands on the sick. However to bless the oil is to take it one step further and this is not Biblical. To bless water, clothes, letters, handkerchiefs, is a misunderstanding of the Biblical message and is taking scripture out of context (John 5, Acts 19:12).

    Nowhere in the Bible do we get the commandment to bless things. God blesses people, not things. If we remain within His will and if we want to find favour with God, then a blessing will be upon our lives. Therefore, even when we sit at the table to eat, we should thank Jesus for the food, like Jesus thanked his Father, and not bless it.

    What we see happening in the ministry of T.B. Joshua and Sylvania, is not revival, but a falling away in the last days. We need to always weigh up everything with the Word of God. Ask yourselves the question, “What does the Word say or how did Jesus and the Apostles go to work? Or what did Jesus and the Apostles do?” The Bible should be our measuring stick and everything should be measured against the Word of God [Hebrews 13:8]. This way we will clearly be able to discern truth from error, what is from God, and what is not from God.

    T.B. Joshua is also a vegetarian – why? According to his website, he delivers thousands of witches and magicians every week. Many of them are half man and half fish. He claims that if he were to eat fish, he would not have the power to deliver them. Does this sound like a man of God to you?

    The spirit of the false prophet speaks about new revelations. Have you ever heard people saying that God is doing a ‘new thing’ and that we are not to limit God – we are to go with the flow, we are to set aside the Word of God and to open our minds and to enter into altered states of consciousness. This again does not weigh up with the Word of God. [Deborah’s note: The terminology used besides ‘new thing’ is; ‘move into the supernatural’, ‘new wine skin’, ‘new gates’, etc]

    What Peter 5:8 tells us is to be self-controlled and alert because the powers of darkness are especially prone to attack our minds. Also it is important to remember that firstly you cannot separate the Word of God from the Spirit of God. That is when mixture can come in and can lead to chaos. When this happens people start growling like lions and make other animal noises in services. They start to deliver in the spiritual realm. On prophet Joshua’s videos it is even seen that they urinate and laugh in the spirit.

    Many times the pastor will just stand back and look on because he does not want to interfere with what he thinks the Spirit is doing, or quench the Spirit. However the Spirit of God’s true measuring stick is the Word of God. John 6:63 “The Word that I speak to you is Spirit and is life.”

    Secondly, you cannot separate the Spirit of God from a sober mind. When Christians question something they are often suppressed and are told that they do not need to understand everything with their mind. However, to use your mind is not from the flesh and it is less spiritual when you do not test the spirits.

    In Mark 7: 18 Jesus asks “Are you then without understanding?”
    In Mark 12:33 the Holy Spirit is referred to as being a Spirit of wisdom and understanding. Our understanding must be through the Holy Spirit and must be controlled by Him.

    Ephesians 4:18 “Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the lightness through the ignorance that is in them because of the blindness of their hearts.”
    1 Timothy 6:5 “Perverse disputes of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness, from such withdraw yourself.”
    1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come and has given us an understanding that we may know Him that is true and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”

    Thirdly, we are not the ones who restrict God. He restricts us.

    Revelation 22:18 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book. If any man should add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”
    2 Peter 1:20, 21 “Knowing this first that no prophesy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophesy came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

    It is interesting therefore to note the similarity between the Roman Catholic Church and the Charismatic movement. Both do not accept or use the Bible as their final authority. The Roman Catholic church adds the book of the apocrypha and the charismatic churches add new revelations.I read often of men of God from our past who were true men of the Word and who loved the truth. I would like to challenge the Christians of today to become those men who stick to sound doctrine and who love the truth.

    4. The False Prophet works in the name of Jesus

    Reference is continually made to Jesus and to the Holy Spirit, however it is often done in a manner which is not respectful (see the video of T.B. Joshua). Sadly, with the continual reference to Jesus and the Holy Sprit, this might deceive those who are naive and who are lacking wisdom and discernment. If one were to look more closely, one would see that it is very seldom that the cross is preached and the message of Jesus Christ crucified. We need to die to self, turn from our wicked ways, repent from our sins, take up our cross and follow Jesus.

    So, in other words the centre of the message being preached is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ but rather focus is put on signs and wonders in the name of Jesus. Mathew 7:22 says, “But many will come to me in that day saying, Lord, Lord, did I not prophesy in your name…”

    In Ezekiel 22:28 it says, “Her prophets whitewashed these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, “This is what the sovereign Lord says, when the Lord has not spoken.”

    5. They turn their ministry into a business

    Money plays a very important role, even though this is usually denied. False prophets usually lack nothing financially. Mathew 7:15, 16 “Beware of the false prophets which come to you in sheep’s clothing – you will know them by their fruit”.

    6. False prophets manipulate people with their gifts (especially the gift of healing and a word of knowledge)

    Because of their power and faith healing, many false prophets are often authoritarian and overpowering. They do not tolerate any kind of opposition. When Christians test the spirits or question things which they feel they are not comfortable with, they are told that they are not to touch God’s anointed and they are often threatened and they feel accused of committing blasphemy.T.B. Joshua has in an overpowering way encouraged people to return for prophetic training and has been known to break families up. However, in his services, public repentance of sin does play a role. It is usually done in front of a video camera or in the services itself. “Only when you confess your sins before a righteous man can you receive deliverance from sin and strongholds.”

    During Sunday services, T.B. Joshua will often expose sin in some of his members through a word of knowledge. He will call people out by their name and mention the exact sins which they are guilty of. It will be done in such fine detail as if he were present when they were committing those sins. Usually this can be seen as a form of manipulation putting fear into the member and succumbing to T.B. Joshua’s fortune-telling spirit.

    Deuteronomy 18:22 says, “If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously – do not fear him.”

    7. The inspiration of the false prophet comes from many different sources

    In Jeremiah 23:13 we see that it can come from evil spirits. In Jeremiah 23: 16 and then 25-28 and verse 32 we see that it can come from your own dreams or thoughts or it can come from your own heart which is part of the flesh. It can also come from imitation. To prophesy is often associated with being super spiritual and therefore many people seek to do this. Jeremiah 23:30 says, “The prophets are stealing my words one from another”.

    8. Earmark of their prophesies

    8.1 Prophesy according to the Bible is nothing else than preaching the Word of God. All the contents of Jesus’ prophesy was the written Word. In Matthew 22:29 it says, “You go astray because you do not know the Word of God.”In Revelation 19:10 we read, “For this testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy.” In the past God would speak to his people through His prophets in many different ways. However, in the last days, God speaks to us through His Son (Hebrew 1:1; 1 Corinthians 14:4,5; John 5:39).

    8.2 False prophet’s prophesies do not warn us of sin. In the Bible, the prophets that we see were very firm and harsh regarding sin. They proclaimed it fearlessly. That is the very reason why Jeremiah and many other prophets of the Bible were killed or persecuted. Listen to today’s prophesies. It doesn’t sound very different from somebody reading your horoscope. I know of somebody who prophesied blessing over the owner of a shabeen and a bottle store (instead of a word of warning). Jeremiah 23:22, “But if they had stood in my council they would have proclaimed my words to my people and would have turned them from their evil ways and from their evil deeds.”

    8.3 Another earmark proclaimed by the false prophets today is that it is usually always done with a positive attitude and full of love and often the prophesies are full of false hope. An example here is if you think back to the false prophesies that Zimbabwe would not be taken over by communism and that South Africa would not be taken over by the ANC and all the hope that we were given that South Africa and the African continent would be living peacefully and that God’s revival would come over the land. [Deborah’s note: See Cindy Jacob’s false prophecy of hope for Zimbabwe with no mention of Jesus Christ and repentance of sin here]

    Ezekiel 13:3 says “Woe unto the foolish prophets”.
    Ezekiel 13:10 says “Because they lead my people astray saying “peace” where there is no peace and because when a flimsy wall is built they cover it with whitewash. Therefore, tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall.”
    Jeremiah 5:31 says “The prophets prophesy falsely and my people love it”.
    Jeremiah 14:15 says “Therefore, this is what the Lord says about the prophets who are prophesying in My Name. I did not send them though they are saying no sword of famine will touch this land. Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine and the people they are prophesying to will be thrown out into the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword.” (Jeremiah 23:17)

    8.4 False prophets twist the Word. In John 14 :12-14 we see that it says that we will be able to do greater things than what Jesus did and this is often quoted. However, this scripture has been taken and quoted out of context. It does not mean that the signs and wonders that we perform will be greater than what Jesus did. How could anyone perform a greater sign and wonder than raising someone from the dead and this is surely then what Jesus did. Nobody can do a greater sign and wonder than that. But that we will be able to reach more people than what Jesus did in His lifetime, yes. At the day of Pentecost, 3000 people came to know the Lord. Jesus only worked in Judea. The apostles were told to evangelise, to take the Word and to preach the gospel to the whole world. Surely this is greater than what Jesus did and surely when someone comes to know the Lord and repents from their wicked ways, what a wonderful miracle that is.

    8.5 The danger of being in contact with these false prophets is that you can fall away and you might become the enemy of God. Listen to their foolish words. It is so difficult to find fault with what they are saying because often there is some truth in their prophecies. It sounds as if they are giving God all the glory for the wonderful works which are taking place.

    However, always remember it is not 95% of the water in the glass that kills someone, but 5% of the arsenic in the glass that is unseen. The 95% which is often the truth, is what leads the people to follow the false prophets. But the other spirits, the counterfeit spirits, the counterfeit Jesus is what brings spiritual death to man.

    The spirit of the false prophet has the belief that doctrine is not that important because it would cause division. Today you can see many people with an ecumenical spirit encouraging Christians to join hands with the Roman Catholic Church, the spirit of the false prophet is freely advocating this. In theological faculties and many churches today this is encouraged. However, many theologians question the inspiration of the Bible, the virgin birth and many other fundamental doctrines. The Bible says that this must happen so that the Word can be fulfilled. The Lord is busy purifying His church – Revelation 3:10. [Deborah’s note: The biggest deception in today’s church and what is being preached is that there is going to be revival second to none in the last days. This is wrong, there is no revival only the ‘great falling away’. So everyone is hoodwinked into thinking that revival is breaking out around the world, when in fact it’s driven by anti-Christ spirits leading people astay thinking it’s of God when it isn’t. Jesus warned you to watch and pray. In the end times families will turn on one another, brother against brother, father against child – I never really understood this, but now I do for I see it happening already – people who have been ‘anointed’ by false spirits masquerading as the Holy Spirit accepting false teachings turn on their family for not wanting to accept this ‘new move’ of God – best friends are now enemies for the one follows the ‘new way’ while the other follows the ‘old way’i.e., the Word of God. It’s the ‘new way’ that turns their backs on and persecutes the ‘old way’ and this persecution is going to, I am sorry to say, turn violent.”]

    Deuteronomy 13:1-5 says “If a prophet or one who foretells by dreams appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods, gods you have not known, and let us worship them.’ You must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer.

    The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow and Him you must revere. Keep His commands and obey Him, serve Him and hold fast to Him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death.” This is an IMPORTANT test to see whether we love the TRUTH or will follow after a man.! In the Old Testament false prophets were the enemy of God and they were put to death. (Deut 13).

    WARNING:

    1.The false prophet is often dynamic and has an amazing stronghold over the people, otherwise he would never be as successful as he is. For this reason many people will be led astray. The Afrikaans prophet, Siener van Rensburg, was a great folk hero in his time, (according to Nostrodamus). For this reason, even magazines or newspapers can place many positive things about false prophets. Sadly, there are Christian radio stations today, and magazines, who positively support prophet T.B. Joshua, Silvania and others. Ignorance to the Word of God, a false unity amongst Christians, will be the price to pay and many will fall because of this and it will be in opposition to the truth.

    Thes 2:9-12, “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness”.

    The writer of this article has also experienced the power of deception. During one of my visits to a town, a healer came and prayed for me for the gift of healing. From that day onwards I was able to pray for people’s legs and see them grow. Everyone in the town was very excited that I had also received this gift. I genuinely saw wonderful signs and wonders and healings.

    Oneday someone warned me through a cassette that this was not from the Lord. Where did it stand in the Bible? Jesus and His disciples did not work in this way. I went on my knees before the Lord. “Lord”, I said, “you understand Afrikaans very well. I don’t want to grieve your Holy Spirit and I don’t want to miss any of the gifts that you have for me, however, your Word tells me to test the spirits. If this gift is not from you, please remove it in the Name of Jesus.” I repeatedly prayed this prayer and from that day onwards I could not perform those healings anymore. Today I know that they were not from God and that it was a counterfeit spirit.

    1 Corinthians 4:6 says “Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit so that you may learn from us and the meaning of the same. Do not go beyond what is written”. Any new experience that does not weigh up with the Word of God can be considered magic. 2 Cor 5:7 says, “We walk by faith, not by sight.” Mathew 4:4 says, “Man will not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.”

    Sheep are careful as to what they eat, but a goat will eat anything. Are our spiritual leaders like the goats who accept and are open to anything that is spiritual as if it will always come from the Lord? Isaiah 56:10,11 compares these leaders to sleeping dogs.

    Scripture tells us: “Woe unto the shepherd who leads my sheep astray.” The shepherds will be responsible for misleading the people, taking them to foreign places to follow after ‘anointed leaders’, or when they invite guest speakers or are open to false prophets and let them come and preach in their midst.

    John 10:12 says “The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep, so when he sees the wolf coming he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters them”. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. We need to test everything very carefully and not follow after man.

    REMEMBER, WHOEVER STANDS FOR NOTHING, WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING!

    2. Throughout the years we have been exposed to a heart sore process of meeting with people who have been involved with false prophets. Initially they have been ecstatic about their experiences, and completely blinded. After a while, perhaps a year or more, serious things start to go wrong in their life. This can be in their spiritual life, in their physical life, or in their psychological well-being. It is sometimes only much later on that they realise that what they were involved in was not from God.

    Call it whatever you will. Hypnosis, suggestion, soulish experiences (read Whatchman Nee’s book, The Latent Power of the Soul), emotional influence, faith healing, deception. They are often exposed to a mixture of magic and hypnotism. True healing cannot occur under these circumstances.

    Often what happens is that people will experience relief in the certain area where they went for prayer but the problem will move to another area. Many people experience healing but something else will then go wrong either in their own body or in that of friends or family. Many people are already starting to complain that since they went to T.B. Joshua, other problems have arisen in their lives or their loved ones. BE WARNED – you are exposing yourself to demonic powers here!!!!!!!!

    The writer of this article has also been involved with false prophets who genuinely believed that they were from God, but during deliverance sessions, the demonic side was exposed. Stay away from churches and spiritual leaders that operate in the realm of fortune telling, Similar to words of knowledge), encourage being slain in the Spirit or being drunk in the Spirit. This is often the work of a counterfeit spirit.

    3. How will we know that the return of our Lord Jesus Christ is at hand? We will know because of a great falling away and deception which will take place. In Matthew 24:3,4 Jesus warns us, “Be careful that nobody deceives you.” Also read Revelation 16:13 ; 19:20 and 20:10. Jesus even asks whether He will still find faith on the earth when He returns? [Deborah’s note: This is something I have been stressing often in comments and other articles I have written. If the church today is calling on us to come together and unite in building the Kingdom of God, building an ‘army of God’ (Joel’s army) that will conquer the earth for Jesus, but Jesus asks whether He will still find any faith on earth when He returns…then OH BOY, Defcon 1 people. We need to ask, what faith is this Kingdom the church is trying to build, built on? The answer: An anti-Christ foundation not Jesus Christ.]

    All these new teachings are paving the way for the Anti-Christ and all the prophecies of taking our cities and countries for Jesus are again making people focus on the wrong things. People are falling away from a love for the Truth. Sadly it will not be the masses who will come to love the Truth, but a handful who will be prepared to be persecuted for making a stand for sound doctrine which is the Truth.

    4. There is no biblical ground for the prophetic schools which some churches are propagating. [Deborah’s note: I won’t even mention the School of Signs and Wonders and Todd Bentley’s courses on how to move into the supernatural]. A prophetic school should be no different from a normal Bible school where we are being trained in sound doctrine and in the Word of God. Prophetic schools in the Old Testament were schools where you were trained in the Word. If a prophetic school considers itself to be anything other than this, it is nothing more than charismatic fortune telling.

    5. In the past many people were aware of the dangers of communism and Roman traditions. However, within the charismatic movement, there is also a danger. The Church, the true Body of Christ is being polluted (Revelation 12:15) and a stream of satanic deception is [Deborah’s note: it started in the 1700’s already] entering the Church today. False prophets are doing many strange things that are not Biblical at all and they are being worshipped and idolised as great men of God. Fortune telling is being clothed in prophesy and words of knowledge.

    The Bible is not the sole source of our truth anymore (sola scriptura). Sadly, Gerald Coates has been known to say that some churches that teach sound doctrine are useless. A well known Christian leader has been known to say that God is not a slave to His Word. There seems to be a new spirituality entering the Church today, particularly found in the charismatic movement. [Deborah’s note: And other denominations are falling prey e.g., Baptists]. This pollution that the modern Christian is exposed to is often discerned as a renewal, however, it is a renewal of the occult and a falling away from the true Lord Jesus Christ and the true Gospel.

    Sadly, this renewal is what so many leaders in the Church today are excited about. There are so many different movements that we are currently exposed to. However do they pass the test when weighed up with the Word of God? For example, the Word of Faith movement, Dominion Theology, Prosperity Gospel, Kingdom Now Theology, the restoring of the Prophetic and Apostolic Ministries [Deborah’s note: 5 fold ministry], spiritual warfare and claiming certain areas or towns for God, prayer walking, automatic writing (here people hold the pen in their hand and the Holy Spirit tells them what to write), Theophostics (another form of inner healing), meditation [Deborah’s note: Contemplative prayer], mysticism, etc.

    Here so many people don’t realise that it is mystical because they are told that when they feel a warmth [Deborah’s note: ‘fire’, ‘burning sensation’, etc] they will know it is God’s presence. John Wimber used to suggest this. Some of them have sensual sensations or pins and needles in their physical body. [Deborah’s note: Todd Bentley says he gets tingling/pins and needles in his hand that he attribues to his ‘gift of healing’]. This they interpret as experiencing God, visualisation (which is a Hindu form of prayer). There is a new evangelisation being preached without the Cross of Jesus Christ being at the centre.

    New manifestations are being sought after, particularly in the charismatic churches e.g.. gold teeth, gold dust, being drunk in the spirit, making animal noises. A new form of spirituality is becoming evident and a new praise and worship is coming to the fore (repetitive music which can lead people into trances). The modern Christian sees this as renewal. However our Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever and when we are born again we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, there is no need to call up the Spirit, invoke Him or worship Him in meetings. This is not Biblical Christianity!

    6. Everybody is expecting the return of a Messiah. The Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists and Christians. Sadly, the people are convinced that a transference of spirits can not take place when we visit false prophets such as T.B. Joshua [Deborah’s note: or those listed above]. The spirit of the false prophet will be transferred to us, thus, when the Anti-Christ does make his appearance, masses of Christians will fall for him and will be deceived and misled because they have not been able to discern the false prophets now. [Deborah’s note: Take note of how many ministers say that Jesus will show up in their meetings, even though it never happends they are conditioning you for one day when a ‘jesus’ does show up, but it wont be Jesus Christ it will be the/an anti-Christ. Jesus warned: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not” (Matthew 24 v 23-26). Many people are led to believe that when the minister says Jesus is going to show up they mean in ‘spirit’and not ‘physical’ either way it’s unbiblical.”]

    7.An unbiblical emphasis on signs and wonders is in disobedience to the 2nd commandment because it is in direct contrast to the way in which we should worship the Lord. We should worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth, however, when we allow experiences where emotion is involved and our senses are involved, to become prominent and the most important part of our worship, we are in disobedience. When the emphasis is put on signs and wonders with the hope that people will then believe in God, our true faith is put aside. That is why faith is the hope of things not seen that we believe in and Jesus said it is a wicked generation that seeketh after signs and wonders (Mathew 12:39 and Mathew 16:4).

    8. Do not support Christian magazines that are mouth pieces to false prophecy. Many false prophesies are often placed in these magazines. These magazines have no discernment and unknowingly become supporters of false prophets and prepare people for the way of the Anti-Christ. Beware of spiritual leaders and churches who are open to any kind of signs and wonders and who do not test the spirits (2 Thes 3:6). Do not let these leaders lay hands upon you (transference of spirits). If leaders do not operate in the gift of discernment now and cannot see the danger in exposing their people to false prophets, how then will they recognise the Anti-Christ.

    9.False prophets such as T.B. Joshua and Sylvania are nothing new. The signs and wonders taking place with these people are now being marketed in a new way. The only reference in the Word of God to gold dust can be found in Exodus 32:20. Here Moses destroyed the golden calf the people had made to worship as a false god. Moses ground the gold to powder (dust) and scattered it on the water. He then made the people drink it as punishment for their adulatory. The chapter then goes on to say how 3000 of the people were slain in that one day for their sin. Job 28:12-16, Proverbs 22:1, Proverbs 3:13, all tell us that wisdom and understanding should be more sought after than gold. Proverbs 8:9 says that the fruit of wisdom is better than fine gold. [Deborah’s note: Many people also use the example of ‘female’ angels in Zechariah 5 to back up Todd Bentley and the angel Emma (who by the way became a male angel at a later stage when Todd realised that ‘female angels’ were possibly unbiblical), but they fail to read the entire passage – Zechariah should be read in its entirety; the two women with wings like a stork were transporting wickedness and a stork is an unclean bird. It does not say they are angels.]

    10. A scene on TV showed how a Hindu in India following a holy cow. He caught up the urine of the cow into a bowl, drank it and washed himself with it. He picked up the excretions of the cow and covered his whole hair and body with it, but he was so sincere, he believed that he was doing this to honour his god. He believed that he was honouring the right god.

    See also Paul’s comment in 1 Corinthians 14:20. Jesus put a lot of emphasis on the Word of God. He often rebuked the Pharisees, saying, “It is written”

    [Matthew 12:3&4, 19:4, 21:16, etc.] John 5:19 “Jesus gave them this answer: ‘I tell you the truth, The Son can do nothing by Himself, he can do only what He sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.’ ”

    How sad is deception. Who will be next and what will be the next deception to cross our paths?

    Will it be THE ANTI-CHRIST?

    Will you be their prey?

    Margaret please wake up and see the RED LIGHTS !!! /b>

  • Amanda

    Margaret

    I dont understand it all but it is defintely revival and God moving in a mighty way.

    Which god are you referring to: the queen of heaven, Mary, Kobus? Kobus prophesied:

    You’re seating with Me in My throne

    Remember, you’re with Me in My throne
    Together we will reign and we will rule
    On this earth and in this day

    It’s time to press in and step right inside of Me
    For it’s in the Christ that you live and move and have your being

    You’re not of this world, you are from a different kind
    You’ve got the Christ-life rising up on the inside of you

    I’ve lifted you up and I’ve placed you right here with me on My Throne

    You can only realise – on the inside of you, you are rising to the fullness, the stature
    Nothing less than Christ’s own size

    Margaret, this is New Age teaching and not Biblical Christianity. Even if you do not understand everything, you should get it when somebody contradicts the Bible and claims christhood for themselves.

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    You are in my prayers to open your eyes and also for your ears to open and get your family away from that place. We have given you enough Biblical proof to clearly see that Kobus van Rensburg is a self appointed False Prophet and we cannot help you any longer if you won’t listen. Please don’t bother coming back here as WE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE KOBUS VAN RENSBURG’S EVIL FALSE TEACHINGS.

    2 Timothy 4:2-6 (Amplified Bible)

    1 I CHARGE [you] in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom:

    2 Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

    3 For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,

    4 And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.

    5 As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

  • pastor Bright Adu Boahen,Nkoranza,Ghana

    Isn’t it funny how people make the word of God of non effect by their traditions.All those who will not listen to Prophet Kobus should Go TO HELL.Some of us believe that he is a God-sent man to our our generation to break tradions so that the word of God will be put into its proper context.
    My advise to the critics- Please tell your denominational members and leaders to listen to Prophet Kobus Van Rensburg on Spiritword Channel and it will help them to become THE MANIFESTED SONS OF GOD THAT CREATION IS WAITING FOR.Don’t be a hypocrite admit the fact that Kobus is a Prophet of the Most High God.DONT BE A PHARISEE OR A SADDUCEE.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Pastor (joke) Bright

    Sorry, I can’t even begin to reply to your comment. Tell me, are you a little Christ as well? Why don’t you just remove the Pastor title in your name and put Christ Bright like that other little girl did.

  • PASTOR BRIGHT ADU BOAHEN,NKORANZA, GHANA

    Hi Deborah,to say we are “lttle Christ” is even an
    under-statement,it reveals your naivity in the word of God.Take it from me today,we are not “little Christ” in the earth today but rather, we are “the Christ” meaning the anointed ones. Haven’t you read from scripture that we as christians have received the fulness of the Christ and for that matter we the sons of God here in this world, do you also know that the Bible says as HE is so are we in this world? Read John 1:11-17,1John3:1-ff 1John 4:17.
    Please note that it is religon which says we are “little christ” but in christianity we are Christ, not little christ.Don’t be a spiritual IGNORAMUS, open up your heart to receive the engrafted word that is able to save your soul by listening to PROPHET KOBUS VAN RENSBURG from Spiritword Ministeries.Thank you.

  • Elmarie A

    pastor Bright Adu Boahen,Nkoranza,Ghana

    Please tell your denominational members and leaders to listen to Prophet Kobus Van Rensburg on Spiritword Channel and it will help them to become THE MANIFESTED SONS OF GOD THAT CREATION IS WAITING FOR.

    What !! You are prepared to lead people straight to the pits of hell with your sugestion. You keep to worshiping your gods and Kobus van Rensburg. We here will keep to the real Gospel of Jesus Christ crucified thank you. It is obvious you choose to follow Kobus van Rensburg’s Cult so please go there if you choose and you can watch the demonic Spiritword Channel. No true Christian would want to get involved in what you are suggesting.

    Don’t be a hypocrite admit the fact that Kobus is a Prophet of the Most High God.DONT BE A PHARISEE OR A SADDUCEE.

    Who in their right frame of mind could/would ever want to admit Kobus van Rensburg is a Prophet from God. NOOOO Pastor what ever you are wrong Kobus van Rensburg is more like a spokes person from the pits of hell.

    Lastly please read every comment made here that give Biblical proof about the warnings in the Word teaching us that many false christs have gone out in the world and the will lead many astray.
    Jesus himself said :
    Matthew 24:4-6 (Amplified Bible) 4Jesus answered them, Be careful that no one misleads you [deceiving you and leading you into error].5 For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [[a]appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

    2 Timothy 3:12-14 (Amplified Bible)

    12 Indeed all who delight in piety and are determined to live a devoted and godly life in Christ Jesus will meet with persecution [will be made to suffer because of their religious stand].
    13 But wicked men and imposters will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and leading astray others and being deceived and led astray themselves.
    14 But as for you, continue to hold to the things that you have learned and of which you are convinced, knowing from whom you learned [them],

  • Elmarie A

    PASTOR BRIGHT ADU BOAHEN,NKORANZA, GHANA

    open up your heart to receive the engrafted word that is able to save your soul by listening to PROPHET KOBUS VAN RENSBURG from Spiritword Ministeries.Thank you.

    Please go try your wizardry else where not here you are trying at the wrong place !! Again I say WHAT !! Who in their right frame of mind could/would ever want to admit Kobus van Rensburg is a Prophet from God. NOOOO Pastor what ever you are wrong Kobus van Rensburg is more like a spokes person from the pits of hell.

    Please don’t bother coming back here your next comment will be deleted because your have tried your utmost to mislead people here and try and force Spirit Word Tv channel down our throats. No thank you we cannot accept your invitation into the pits of hell.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Pastor Bright.

    Hi Deborah,to say we are “lttle Christ” is even an under statement……………we are “the Christ”

    Oh sorry, THE CHRIST Bright.

    Anyhow, try use your imaginary god power to stop me from deleting your next comment.

  • cecilia

    Indeed Debs!

    Matthew 24:24
    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    my mind can’t comprehend how many people today are calling themselves “christ”, and to go and even put “the” in front, blows my mind!

  • Margaret

    You people are really nasty. They will be known by their fruit – your fruit is insulting people, mocking God, blaspheming the Holy Spirit. By the fruit coming out of these conversations I would much rather be a part of Kobus and His ministry than Deborah and the rest of the nasty girls. If anyone comes up with a valid argument straight from the word of God then you delete them. Best you nice ladies start working on your fruit; namely; love because your fruit is VROT!

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    Oh there you are….. :-) we are still waiting for you to supply proof of your daughter’s friend who goes to Spirit Word who you claimed looks 20 years younger? Have you solved the mystery yet as you also said you don’t understand it.

    You said :

    Margaret
    11 July, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    I am actually a catholic but I watch the channel and my daughter goes to Spirit Word. A good friend received her healing at Spirit Word. Her leg was to be amputated because of diabetic sores. God stopped the operation and she went to SW and is now completely healed of diabetes. She looks about 20 years younger. I dont understand it all but it is defintely revival and God moving in a mighty way.

    and then I said :

    Elmarie
    11 July, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Could you supply before and after pictures of this please?

    Please give us proof I ask again then we can chat on other issues like you being catholic :-)

    Margaret your say :

    “You people are really nasty.”

    No not so we stand for the truth in the Word of God.

    You also say :

    I would much rather be a part of Kobus and His ministry than Deborah and the rest of the nasty girls

    No one asked you to be part of “Deborah and the rest of the nasty girls” Please run along and go join Kobus van Rensburg and his ministry as you chose.

    mmm I have a suggestion Margaret:

    If you can not supply this proof we require of your daughters fiend looking 20 years younger and it must be proven and backed up by Scripture in your next comment mmmm sorry but i’m afraid then your comment will also have to be deleted.

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret
    11 July, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    I dont understand it all but it is defintely revival and God moving in a mighty way.

    Why would God if it as you say “it is defintely revival and God moving in a mighty way” cause you not to understand it?

    Let me share this Scripture with you Margaret.

    Matthew 13:13-15 (Amplified Bible)

    1 THAT SAME day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting beside the sea.

    2 But such great crowds gathered about Him that He got into a boat and remained sitting there, while all the throng stood on the shore.

    3 And He told them many things in parables (stories by way of illustration and comparison), saying, A sower went out to sow.

    4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell by the roadside, and the birds came and ate them up.

    5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they had not much soil; and at once they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.

    6 But when the sun rose, they were scorched, and because they had no root, they dried up and withered away.

    7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them out.

    8 Other seeds fell on good soil, and yielded grain–some a hundred times as much as was sown, some sixty times as much, and some thirty.

    9 He who has ears [to hear], let him be listening and let him [a]consider and [b]perceive and comprehend by hearing.

    10 Then the disciples came to Him and said, Why do You speak to them in parables?

    11 And He replied to them, To you it has been given to know the secrets and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

    12 For whoever has [spiritual knowledge], to him will more be given and he will [c]be furnished richly so that he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

    13 This is the reason that I speak to them in parables: because [a]having the power of seeing, they do not see; and [b]having the power of hearing, they do not hear, nor do they grasp and understand.

    14 In them indeed is [c]the process of fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: You shall indeed hear and hear but never grasp and understand; and you shall indeed look and look but never see and perceive.

    15 For this nation’s heart has grown gross (fat and dull), and their ears heavy and difficult of hearing, and their eyes they have tightly closed, lest they see and perceive with their eyes, and hear and comprehend the sense with their ears, and grasp and understand with their heart, and turn and I should heal them.(A)

    16 But blessed (happy, fortunate, and [g]to be envied) are your eyes because they do see, and your ears because they do hear.

    17 Truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men [men who were upright and in right standing with God] yearned to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Margaret

    I think its nasty to lie. Proof please. You can send the photo’s to my email address that is mentioned in the About This Blog / Rules page at the very top of the website.

  • Margaret

    I dont know how to post photos here. I have plenty of proof. This same lady had clooged arteries and was supposed to have a stent put into her heart – she had another scan after she was prayed for and te blockages were gone. At my daughters church – they run centres for abused women and children – there ave been 17 women healed of hiv/aids. a man was healed of blindness, another 2 women healed from cancer, a crippled man walked out of a wheelchair. If you want proof I will give you the doctors phone numbers, medical reports, before and after photos. Why must you be like doubting Thomas?

  • Margaret

    [MARGARET MADE CLAIMS OF MIRACLES BUT WONT SHOW PROOF – The next comment we expect from Margaret is to tell us that she has emailed all proof that she said she will (Doctor’s name, medical reports and before and after photo’s to the email address provided under the About this Blog / Rules place at the top of the Website. Not sure why anyone would go to the doctor because they look 20 years younger, but never the less if she went, then we wanna see the reports ETC, ETC, ETC]

  • Amanda

    Margaret

    You are welcome to join Kobus, claim your bodily immortality and grow younger. Just do not call that Christianity and expect Christians to amen the ‘true prophet’, the christ who is sitting with Him on the throne and reigning with Him today on this earth. If you accept this false christ, then God will hold you accountable for your idolatry. Repent and flee from the wrath that is to come.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Margaret

    You were asked to EMAIL the photo’s to me. Come now. This is getting very lame.

    If you want proof I will give you the doctors phone numbers, medical reports, before and after photos.

    You are like all the rest, you say you will and never do.

    PLEASE GIVE US THE PROOF, THANK YOU KINDLY FOR YOUR CO-OPERATION.

    You can find the email address under the About This Blog / Rules page. Once you have emailed ALL doctors phone numbers, medical reports, before and after photos, please come back and comment to let me know so I can go check. Please note that you stated there are now doctors involved, so don’t forget to include their numbers and their medical reports.

  • Margaret

    so give me your e-mail address and a p,o,box address – I will send you dvds of people getting out of wheelchairs – and no they are not actors or paid. even if the evidence jumps up and bites you you will still not beleive. Guess thats what we call unbeleif, also called blaspheming the HolyGhost – beware!

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    Do you know this Man ? Johan van Wyk – Solid Rock Church

    Read all about it here : http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/07/23/healing-church-faces-advertising-standards-authority-wrath/

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    Why must you be like doubting Thomas?

    No you are wrong Margaret. Kobus is not Jesus! Millions believe the Pope is God if you don’t believe it you are also a doubting Thomas. Can you see how ridiculous your statement is ?

    Do you know about these Words Jesus spoke in the Word?
    2 Corinthians 11:12-15 (Amplified Bible)

    12But what I do, I will continue to do, [for I am determined to maintain this independence] in order to cut off the claim of those who would like [to find an occasion and incentive] to claim that in their boasted [mission] they work on the same terms that we do.

    13For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).

    14And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light;

    15So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds.

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    If you want proof I will give you the doctors phone numbers, medical reports, before and after photos.

    Just take note it must be doctors phone numbers, medical reports, before and after photos OF YOUR daughters fiend looking 20 years younger ONLY Nothing else !! We do not want any other proof.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Margaret

    I did not ask for stupid dvd’s. My email address is in the About the Rules page at the top of the website (I have told you this 3 times now). You told us you will send us PROOF, with doctors names and medical reports of this person who is now 20 years younger. You are now playing dodge ball and it’s pathetic and it shows you are a liar second to none.

    Right, who is the next twit who wants to show us proof but then never does… says they have it, when they don’t….and will continue to lie and lie and lie.

    Testing the anti- Christ spirit that speaks through you is commanded by the Word of God. 1 John 4:1-6 You have being weighed and found to be wanting.

    Good bye Margaret.

  • Elmarie A

    Margaret

    I will send you dvds of people getting out of wheelchairs – and no they are not actors or paid.

    Noooo Margaret that is not what we requested.
    I knew you would not provide proof of your daughters friend who looks 20years younger.

    People like Kobus van Rensburg and his Ministry should maybe be checked out by the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA).

  • Dirk Kock

    Hallo aan almal, Interesant die gesprekke. Ek is van Namibia en is binnekort by Spirit Word,Pastors and Leaders Confrens, kan nie wag nie. Snaaks dat Deborah so baie aanhaal wat satan kan doen, jy gee hom baie eer. Lyk of jy Regtig meer weet van satanisme as van God se werke Self. Elmarie neem so nou en dan oor by Deborah en as die gesprekke te warm raak , dan DELETE ons die volgende boodskap. As jy verseker is van jou standpunt, hoekom die volgede antwoord DELETE.As jy verkeer handel, DELETE GOD jou of is hy n GOD van Liefde en Geduld. Los nou maar vir Kobus en sy gemeente,as jy nie daar wil wees nie , gaan verby my Suster. Wie gee jou die reg om oor ander mense se lewens te praat.Wonderwerke gebeur daagliks, hoekom nie in Kobus se kerk nie? Julle raak vervelig en het nie iets beter om te doen as om Kamstig mense te waarsku nie. Gee elke mens toe dat hy deur die Gees gelei word.Wie en wat is Elmarie en Deborah . Het julle n Bediening of sit julle tuis en skiet uit die heup.Los elke mens om in Vrede met sy Skeeper te leef. Gaan Voort Profeet Kobus , ek dink jy en jou gesin ervaar die Liefde van God.

  • Dirk Kock

    Deborah, n mens praat nie van n ander mens as n Twit nie. Almal is na die beeld van God geskape, tot die Twits ook. Jy beledig God .

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Just a quick update. Still no email from Margart the liar.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    I love all these comments by Kobus’ delusional followers. Shows the world what he is really all about.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Elmarie

    Ohhhh you read my mind. Who will lay a complaint about him to the ASA? “Oh pick me!” I say hehe. If ol’ Johan van Wyk’s ministry got into trouble for lying so should Kobus. He has made millions from lying.

  • Dirk Kock

    Deborah, jy loop draaie, geen reguit antwoord nie. Ja gaan na die ASA toe, geen Opregte Christen sou hom daar mee op gehou het nie.God laat sy wil geskiet, nie die van ASA nie.Dit wys my net hoe kleinlik jy is , Jy noem jou n Christen, nee man, dink weer.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    Ag shame Dirk sorry that I am no longer a Christian because I made a joke about going to the ASA. I am not going to the ASA. But there might be others who will. If I must go there then I need to complain against EVERY SINGLE ministry in this country who tells lies and leads people astray and takes their tithes and offerings promising people blessings.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    While I am complaining, I will go to the Broadcasting Complainst Comission and complain about MNET, ETV, SABC. To the government about the Internet.. oh and schools for removing Christianity.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    Deborah, n mens praat nie van n ander mens as n Twit nie. Almal is na die beeld van God geskape, tot die Twits ook. Jy beledig God .

    Firstly, I did not call anyone a twit. I said “who will be the next twit” to come and tell lies. Read properly. But if you insist, I won’t call anyone a twit again for lying. I suppose you are the next liar then that will come and tell us you have proof of Kobus healings? Let me guess, you friend is now 30 years younger and his hair grew back?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    Same old nonsense talk from Kobus’ followers. If Kobus wants to be in the public eye then his lies will be exposed in public for all to see. And I see that you think I must keep quiet but YOU can speak against me. Sorry pal, does not work that way. I allow yours and others comments for the simple reason that you do all my work for me by exposing your own Prophet. Carry on :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    Oh my goodness, you know what I just realised!!! You don’t want me to go to the ASA for the simple reason you are one of Kobus’ skievies trying to protect him.

    Well if all his healings are real then he has got nothing to worry about.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    No ways. See this is what happens when over a thousand and a half people read your blog on a daily basis. I just received 2 emails from people who said they are writing to the ASA. People who attended Kobus’ church, who were not healed but WERE swindled out of their money.

    Did Johan van Wyk pave the way for God’s will to be done regarding false teachers? http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/07/23/healing-church-faces-advertising-standards-authority-wrath/ Dirk, your wish has been granted for God’s will to be done.

  • Dirk Kock

    Nee ou Deborah, niemand “Expose” hulle nie behalwe jy jouself, selfde ou verveelige antwoorde en aanhalings.Ek sien jy geniet dit om jou self te ontbloot tot op die been, Geluk.Jy is meer as welkom om na ASA te gaan, ek probeer jou nie keer nie,LEES WEER WAT EK GESKRYF HET,MOET NIE AANNAMES MAAK NIE.Weereens, niemand is jou skievie nie, ek is na die beeld van GOD geskape en jy beledig God, ….. dan praat jy van Expose, ek kry jou so jammer, en ai kyk hoe bewe almal oor die dreigement met ASA. Vrees kom nie van God nie!Kobus kan hom self beskerm want GOD is met hom, so ek het nie nodig om vir hom te skerm nie, maar wie gaan jou Beskerm met die skerp tong.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    Your comments are boring as well. How about using some scripture to back up your false prophet Kobus. This should be interesting. In fact why don’t you show us solid proof of healings he performs?

  • Dirk Kock

    Deborah, jy soek net Scripture om te PROBEER wys jy weet waarvan jy praat. Ek ken baie mense wat verse in die Bybel aan haal en dit se my nie veel van hulle geloofwaardigheid nie. Ag suster ek bly lief vir jou en bid vir jou. Kom kyk sommer self na die Healings wat plaas vind en dan kan ons sommer bid vir daai Jezebel spirit in jou.Asseblief man, erken dit nou maar.Dis geen skande nie,God is nog steeds lief vir jou my ou sussie en so ook ons almal. Ek bid vir jou.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    Here is some scripture for you to start thinking about.

    Deuteronomy 5:6–21

    7 you shall have no other gods before me.

    – Kobus is a false teacher and does not serve the one and only Living God of the Bible.

    8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

    – Kobus has a huge Crucifix hanging in his church of the Eucharist Catholic Christ (A FALSE GOD)

    9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

    11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

    – Kobus and his followers misuse the name of God daily, taking His name in vein – through lies, promises of healings that are false.

    19 Neither shall you steal.

    – Stealing money from the sick

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    I asked for scripture and now you are saying that the only reason I am asking for it is to show that I know what I am speaking about? That’s funny. Your comment shows me that you know nothing and can’t quote scripture. It’s nothing new really. ALL Kobus’ worshippers don’t know their bibles at all.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dirk

    How can you call me Jezebel and your sister at the same time? That was not smart.

    I think you should stop commenting, you are making a fool out of yourself. Actually let me help you. No more comments from you. You can’t quote scripture, you can’t give me proof, you can’t do anything except repeat yourself and get insulting. Good bye.

    Who is next from your church to come and have a go? Make sure they can quote scripture. Make sure they have even opened their bibles for that matter.

  • Elmarie A

    Dirk

    I will give you the same answer I gave Margaret on 11 July, 2010 at 8:25 pm.

    You are in my prayers to open your eyes and also for your ears to open and get your family away from that place. We have given you enough Biblical proof to clearly see that Kobus van Rensburg is a self appointed False Prophet and we cannot help you any longer if you won’t listen. Please don’t bother coming back here as WE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE KOBUS VAN RENSBURG’S EVIL FALSE TEACHINGS.

    2 Timothy 4:2-6 (Amplified Bible)

    1 I CHARGE [you] in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom:

    2 Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

    3 For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,

    4 And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.

    5 As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

  • Dirk Kock

    [EDITED: You have been blacklisted. Stop commenting – they will automatically be deleted]

  • Dominique

    [EDITED: Dear Debbie who has now returned under the alias of Dominique, 1) You are laying 2) It’s stupid – You are now blacklisted]

  • Elmarie A

    Dominique/Debbie
    please go read here about
    Johan van Wyk – Solid Rock Church With Not So Solid Advertising read here : http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/07/23/healing-church-faces-advertising-standards-authority-wrath/

  • brian

    Wow it’s amazing how one guy(Prophet Kobus van Rensburg) can get you religious types to turn your back on Gospel of Jesus, which is loving thy Neighbour. I mean the comments from you Deborah seems more like hate to me.

  • Amanda

    Brian

    Us religious types hold to the Word of God. It defines the Gospel:

    Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you–unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. (1Co 15:1-5)

    What you identify as the Gospel, we call Law, as Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior did:

    And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Mat 22:37-40)

    Clearly you have been misled into believing that the Law is Good News. It is not. If you break the Law, even once, you will face the righteous wrath of God. That is very bad news indeed.

    The Good News, the Gospel, is that Jesus Christ faced the wrath of God on your behalf. Only He is able to save you from your just punishment. We have faith in Jesus Christ as our savior and therefor we are called Christians. We will never, ever turn our back on the Gospel.

    You referred to the Law. Look again at the first commandment. Part of loving God is not to give the honour that belongs to Him alone to man. Kobus claims that he or whoever his prophecy is addressed to, is of the same stature as Christ, ruling with Him!

    Look at the second commandment. Part of loving your neighbour is to warn him against false teachings. Kobus is teaching his followers that they can claim their immortality here and now. They believe that they are getting younger!

    If you, Brian, reject the clear teachings of Jesus Christ Himself about false prophets, then what is your religion? Surely you cannot then call yourself a Christian? What is the name of your religion?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Brian

    You are confused. We are Christians who condemn Kobus who preaches a false gospel of blasphemies and it’s sad that you can’t tell good from bad. Go pick up your bible Brian and read it.

  • Charles Siamutwa

    YOU CAN BE SURE THAT YOUR END WILL BE PITIFUL. YOU HAVE RAISED YOUR HEAL AGAINST A PROPHET

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Charles

    Yeah….right….

    *boring*

  • Dirk Kock

    Deborah, answer Charles please, not with ” Yeah…. Right” Jezzebelle is still in you. We must pray together. I found out where you live, so i will come and see you when i come down for the conferece. You people are blind and is under the Law.
    enjoy your day.

    [EDITED: See rule 1 again:

    If anyone insists on trying to find the full name and where abouts or address of the authors of this website it will not be taken lightly. We do not want to know who you are, or where you live. And we do not do meetings.

    Not lightly means exactly that.]

  • Amanda

    Charles”

    “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. (Deu 13:1-4)

  • Elmarie A

    Charles Siamutwa

    Rule 6)Discerning The World will not tolerate demeaning, harsh-toned, vitriolic, abrasive, coarse, condescending, vindictive, abusive, insulting, disrespectful and/or downright mean-spirited comments, comments repeated across posts, advertising, foul language, multiple user names for different comments, and blatant lying. The Administrator/Moderator has no problem what so ever deleting or moderate your comments.

    Rule 8) We will not provide a platform for you to spread your seeds of doubt, hate and outright damnable heresies in an attempt to hijack this website for your own beliefs and teaching. Instead – you will be stripped of the sheep’s cloak you’ve disguised yourself in and you will be driven from the flock like the wolf you are.

    Read everthing here : http://www.discerningtheworld.com/about-this-blog-rules/comments/

  • Dirk Kock

    Deborah, (Edited insults) You Can be sure that your end will be pitifull.YOU HAVE RAISED YOUR HEAL AGAINST A PROPHET.

    [EDITED: Dirk, do not contact us in any way in the future. Moenie ons weer op enige manier kontak nie. Dirk you should know better than to make your Facebook profile public while at the same time making threats on the internet. If any author or reader of DTW is harmed by you in anyway the police will be contacted immediately and will be provided with your full details which are available to us. Dirk Kock’s Facebook page ]

  • Grant C

    It has been brought to my attention that personal security threats are being made by certain supporters of secularized cults or false churches and preachers, whose anti-Christian practices are exposed on this blog and other related Christian websites and blogs.

    There has been a documented and recorded statement made by one of these supporters to the effect that personal harm is intended and that a breach of personal privacy will be attempted by that supporter on certain lady writers in South Africa on this blog. While it remains the policy, practice and belief of the Body inexorably connected to the functioning of this blog, to maintain the autonomy of the blog, matters of security are of institutional importance.

    Although it is the obvious intent of this blog to permit, encourage and facilitate the public airing of multiple viewpoints, it remains private proprietorship and intellectual property where over the accepted national and international legalities apply.

    It must serve, however, as legal fair warning, that personal attack on any individual contributor to this blog will not be tolerated by the extended Body of it’s members. It further stands to reason that, due to the internet based nature and format of this blog, supra-standard security measures ensuring the personal security and the intellectual property of the blog are in place.

    These measures can be equated to being monitored by closed circuit security employed by financial and other institutions, only in this instance it is internet based procedure. Private information will not be made public.

    This warning extends to the person whom I will refrain from publicly identifying at this point as a matter of courtesy, but who has been informed that we are in possession of necessary details to facilitate the actual physical and legal protection of the blog writers.

    On a personal note, I wish to bring it to your attention (ie. the person who is the subject of my comment), that you will not gain access to the property of the women you are threatening, and neither will you have the simplified task you imagine of dealing with women only when you are close to their locale. Christians are certainly not defenseless pacifists under threat of persons with evil intent.

    You have certainly not succeeded in driving the lady writers on this blog into a corner as you have said, but you have put yourself into a very undesirable position with the men. I suggest you check the blog statistics to see what numbers you could be dealing with. You are free to comment, hurl insults and hold to whatever false belief and evil ‘prophets’ you like, but you are not free to make unanswered physical threats here.

    This will be a warning statement that failure to achieve prompt correction may result in enforcement action without further notice. While examples of what such actions may be could be included, there will not be any commitment that enforcement action will be taken.

  • Verne

    Dirk Kock

    Ek merk op dat jy graag van ons manne hier by die blog wil kom sien. Magtig man, jy’s welkom om ‘n tee of koffietjie te kom geniet hier by ons. Ons sal selfs ‘n vleisie op die kole kan brand as jy honger is, en hier by ons sal jy na hartelus oor die Here Jesus, nooit uitgepraat raak nie. Ek wil net waarsku dat ‘n ongemanierde, aggressiewe houding soos joune nie so lekker gaan uitwerk nie. Jy sal hier moet aankom met ‘n Christelike houding, nie die een waarmee jy so graag op die blog skryf nie.

    Jy sien, die welsyn van die kerk, die Liggaam van Christus en die Christelike Geloof is waaroor Christen ouens net soms ‘n bietjie ernstig raak. Wanneer daar deur ander valse religieuse radikales daaraan afbreek gedoen word, dan raak Christene so klein bietjie ‘upset’, as jy weet wat ek bedoel.

    Maar moenie dat dit jou afskrik nie, kom maak ‘n draai by ons meisies en by ons op kantoor, en dan kyk ons hoe die dag uitdraai. Wie weet, miskien gaan jy daar weg met ‘n luwe lied vir Jesus in jou hart, en ‘n passie vir die Waarheid.

    Wanneer se jy sal dit wees?

  • Hennie

    Deborah, ek dink nie jy is ver verkeerd nie. Dis nodig dat ons moet weerle en vermaan wanneer dit nodig is. Het jy al na die “popo” gospel liedjie geluister? Ja, die wereld moet weet, al die kindertjies van Jesus is nie “popos” nie. Laat ons nie ophou om vir n verloregaande wereld te bid nie. Jesus se koms is voor die deur, en ons kleed moet vlekkeloos wees. Die woordjie vlekkeloos spreek boekdele, en die Regterstoel oordeel, (let wel nie die wittroon oordeel nie) is op hande. Mag die Here ons WAARDIG AG, sodat ons hierdie dinge wat oor die wereld gaan kom mag ontvlug, en sodoende in Sy teenwoordigheid te kan wees.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hennie

    Mark Them Which Cause Division http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/mark-them-which-cause-division/

    Romans 16:17-18 (King James Version)

    17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    ——————

    Kobus is so lucky to be warned sooooooo many times of his error. Many people in the world never get to hear that they are doing wrong. Maybe one day Kobus will wake up.

    ——————
    As Christians We Must Judge Righteously http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/as-christians-we-must-judge-righteously/

    As Christians we do NOT judge a person life, i.e., sin, because we are all sinners (Matt 7:1). But the Bible does command us to judge fellow Christians teachings and their fruit. We judge/test their teachings/doctrine to make sure it is correct and that it ties up with scripture.

    There are many verses in the bible where we are told to JUDGE/TEST:

    ———–

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)

    21But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.

    ———–

    Matthew 7:15-20 (Amplified Bible)

    15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

    16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

    17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.

    18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].

    19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.

    20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.

    ———–

    1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (Amplified Bible)

    12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?

    13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].

    ———–

    1 Corinthians 14:29 (Amplified Bible)

    29 So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.

    ———–

    John 7:24 (Amplified Bible)

    24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.

    ———–

    Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)

    9He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error].

    10For there are many disorderly and unruly men who are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true] especially of those of the circumcision party [who have come over from Judaism].

    11Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain.

    12One of their [very] number, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, hurtful beasts, idle and lazy gluttons.

    13And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error,

    14[And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth.

    15To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted.

    16They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.

    ———–

    1 John 4 (Amplified Bible)

    1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

  • BRENDAN

    I am praying for the people of this website to see the error of thier ways. In Jesus name. Amen

  • BRENDAN

    JESUS LOVES EVERYONE ON THIS WEBSITE. HAVE AN AWESOME DAY

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Brendan

    Who are you speaking too? Kobus’ followers or the writers of this website?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Brendan

    I do believe you have commented before as JANE, Brian, and “Not Necessary”. Please pick a personality and stick to it.

  • Elmarie A

    BRENDAN wrote:

    I am praying for the people of this website to see the error of thier ways.

    We will pray for you to realize Kobus van Rensburg is a FALSE SELF PROCLAIMED PROPHET…

  • collen

    I have had my life radically changed by the teachings of Kobus… Glory to God. It is personal and i do not expect you to agree,and yes you will find people who are quick to critisize. And i feel people confuse discernment with the spirit of critisizing. my encouragement to you Deborah is and i pray you read this –>

    “may your greatest motivation be love for others”. think about it, are you doing this because you love Kobus and there is nothing in it for your spiritual ego.

    And because i love you, my prayer is that in what ever you do (discern or critisize),may God deal with you according to His Grace.

    Love always

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    collen

    I can just imagine how radically changed your life is now. When your life starts to fall apart because it will sooner or later and all your finances are in Kobus’ new lounge suite made out of real leopards, we will be here to help you pick up the pieces and Jesus Christ is waiting eagerly for you to turn to Him and NOT a man by the name of Kobus.

  • collen

    Just as a matter of interest, do you think it is possible that God can use a man. If He can, please tell me who do you vouch as a man that God is using at this day and age.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    collen

    That is not a very smart question. Try another one. God used Nebuchadnezzar (an evil man).

  • wee man

    Deborah

    I’m not writing this to try argue with you, but here’s something maybe you don’t know… “YOU SUCK”!!! And if no one has told you, now you know. You talk about how Kobus should receive the Lord Jesus Christ, but clearly you know nothing about Jesus. I think as much as you think Kobus needs Him, you need Him too. You most probably think you are doing God a favor by writing all this bull about Kobus and other men who love God. The thing is, just as i’m writing about you but I don’t know you, you write about Kobus, and you know nothing about him. Why don’t you get your facts right, then write something. And you are very confused… you vouch for Christ, but at the same time, you go against anything that represents him. And you have the nerve to criticize anyone who tries to do something for God. Do you only have bad things to say? And it seems according to you, you’re the True man/woman of God, but all the stuff you say, is crap!!!

    but, anyway, you are entitled to your own opinion… Mine is: Prophet Kobus van Rensburg is an AWESOME man of God.

    May God bless you and your family greatly, and may He fill your heart with the love and the compassion of the Holy Spirit.

    I think the zeal you have will bring great results if you used it to advance the Kingdom of God. PEACE!!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    wee man

    I don’t accept blessings from people who follow false teachings and men who preach another gospel. I know for a fact you have never read your bible, if you had you would not be following Kobus van Rensburg. So you actually can’t argue with me because you don’t know what yo are speaking about. Next time come back with scripture to back up what Kobus van Rensburg preaches is correct, ok. This should be interesting. You can start by telling me why you think Roman Catholicism is Christian because Kobus thinks this abomination of a religion is.

  • Momo

    I am shocked to hear all these bad words used against Prophet Kobus. All I want to say is that this man Kobus van Rensburg has healed me from back pains which prevented me from doing even the simpliest house chores, he laid hands on me and when he touched me i felt something happening on the inside of me. A warm feeling one has to experience to know what i am talking about. Is the devil now a healer? Or do people possess evil spirits to heal?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Momo

    Well, you have busted yourself wide open.

    >> All I want to say is that this man Kobus van Rensburg has healed me from back pains

    Kobus healed you? Really, so it was not Jesus Christ, but Kobus.

    >> A warm feeling one has to experience to know what i am talking about

    Oh I know what you are speaking about. You see no where in the bible does is speak about anyone getting healed (by Jesus) having a warm feeling come over them. They were just instantly healed, no funny feelings. What Kobus does is through the power of demons, or the subconscious the the person willing to accept his power of suggestion. This is occult.

    Does the devil heal? Oh yes he does. Matthew 24:24 (NKJV) “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”

  • Kenneth

    Hello every body.

    Deborah, Jesus spoke of some signs which should follow believers (Mark 16vs17); and I see them with the peple you regard as false prophets; do you think Jesus was lying?

    Just to ask a question, do you have at least one of the signs following you. I think you will do yourself a favour by stopping to accuse men of God.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hey Kenneth

    Firstly, Jesus never lies. False teachers such as Kobus produce many lying signs and wonders.

    Matthew 7:22-23
    21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in Your name and done many mighty works in Your name?
    23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].

    Secondly. I don’t boast. If anyone has been saved from reading my blog, or come back to knowing Jesus Christ then,

    Ephesians 2:8-9
    “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

    Kobus loves to let people know how powerful he is, but his power is not from on High.

    2 Timothy 3:1-5
    But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

  • Hannes

    Kodus v Rensburg is all you Christians babble about from Nov 2009. How many souls could you have reached by now by the same time and energy put into nothing. This is the devil stealing time and money from christian.

    LOVE GOD, LOVE HIS PEOPLE AND LOVE THE WORLD. He died for this.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hannes

    Oh many souls. Over 40,000 page views on this article alone, so lots of people have LEARNT THE TRUTH about this false man.