Split between NAR and Charismatic Movement

Split in the Church - They are still all goats
Split in the Church – They are still all goats

A recent devilishly designed split between Charismatics / Pentecostalism and NAR has taken place. Pay attention my friends.

As of the last few months a split / shift has taken place where Charismatics are denying having anything to do with NAR and are in fact going out of their way to expose NAR churches and leaders. At the same time you have NAR apostles and prophets denying that they are in fact NAR because they do not fall under C. Peter Wagner’s ‘New Apostolic Reformation’.

They make statements like, “what’s this NAR thing? Never heard of it” or “we are not NAR because our fire is not kundalini fire but godly fire” or “we don’t call ourselves prophets or apostles therefore we are not NAR”.

And guess what? People are falling for these lies left right and centre.

I stumbled across this split/shift recently after I joined a Facebook group that exposes NAR. I was soon shocked to find out that the group was run by Charismatics who still believe in the calling down of fire, speaking in tongues and other manifestations but in a more orderly manner.

So according to them…

  • NAR = kundilini fire, bizarre manifestations and blatant occult teaching.
  • OTHER = gentle calling down of ‘supposed godly fire’, orderly manifestations, speaking in tongues, visions, dreams and visitations of Jesus and angels etc.

Latter Rain Teaching

I was kicked out the group very quickly as I tried to explain that the Apostolic and Prophetic, Word of Faith, Charismatic movement etc, all stem from ONE SOURCE and that is Latter Rain Teaching as propagated by William Branham.

Latter Rain Teaching can take on many many forms; from the subtle to the downright disturbing. But it’s still ALL Latter Rain Teaching.

And right now a split has taken place; splitting the downright disturbing from the subtly disturbing.

NAR Denial

Taken from Ask Dr Brown website:

So I continued to wonder, “What is this so-called NAR?”  I was familiar with the term New Apostolic Reformation, coined by Peter Wagner (more on this below), but it hardly resembled this ominous new “NAR.”

To make matters more interesting, last year, some colleagues began sending me links to articles and videos attacking me as one of the leaders of NAR. Worse still, the websites claimed, I denied being part of it. How nefarious and dishonest of me! (To this moment, when I tell the truth about “NAR,” I’m called a liar. It would be very funny if wasn’t very sad.)

I began to ask other colleagues about NAR (or, in full, the New Apostolic Reformation). Almost to a person, they responded, “What is NAR?” Yet they, too, were alleged leaders in this so-called world movement! How is it they never heard of it either?…

“To this day, when I bring up NAR to colleagues, either they have no idea what I’m referring to, or else they say, “That was Peter Wagner’s organization.” …

Please read this entire article: https://askdrbrown.org/library/dispelling-myths-about-nar-new-apostolic-reformation

Everyone is Exposing Everyone

Right now everyone is now exposing everyone, or just outright denying that they know what you’re speaking about.

NAR are denying they are NAR, WOF are exposing NAR, Charismatics are exposing NAR and WOF and so on.

And then you have the Hebrew Roots Movement drawing Christians looking for some normality into the Kabbalah. And let us not forget to mention the Calvinists/Reformed (with their mirraid of websites exposing all things Charismatic) who then trap those falling out of Latter Rain Teaching into their claws.

The mingling and mashing of doctrines across all these movements is becoming very blurry, but at the end of the day it’s all part of the Latter Rain movement.

My friends, watch and pray, test everything according to scripture. We are living in perilous times, nothing is as it seems, except the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


None of us are immune to deception. It’s how long you stay deceived because of disobedience to the Holy Spirit’s warnings, that will ultimately hurt your relationship with Jesus Christ because you have allowed Satan a foothold into your MIND.

If you have been deceived, repent immediately and get back on track with Jesus Christ and listen to Him through His Word. Stay on the narrow path.

Please see article on: Latter Rain NAR – Has it Poured into Your Church?

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

16 Responses

  1. Mike Evans says:

    Terrific article Deborah.
    I had begun to notice this myself. I literally laughed out loud when I noticed a video with Jennifer LeClaire talking about Discernment (of which she has zero!).
    This will breed much confusion, which is just what the Father of Lies loves. I was recently told to “judge myself” on a blogsite dealibg with ‘Apostasy in the Church’ for placing a link to a well researched article on the Welsh revival which showed that it became the Toronto Blessing of its day. Evan Roberts and Jesse Penne Lewis were the Todd Bentley and Patricia King of their era and their charismania had everything to do with influencing Azusa st and the Latter Rain movement. Here is the link:
    Lots of good articles on people revered by many to this day (eg. Andrew Murray) who were spouting the same false, experiential doctrines and even the same manifestations as the apostate church today. For example, ‘Quietism’ sounds exactly like the Contemplative Prayer of the 19th century..
    I have come to understand that many who abhor the extremism of charismania are still deceived by Pentecostalism and refuse to believe it was false from the getgo despite documented evidence to the contrary. I can only assume that they are bound by false spirits and love their gibberish tongues, extra Biblical leadings, favourite heretical teachers etc. Once I realized that these demonic manifestations were the same exhibited by the Montanists, the Catholic mystics, the French prophets, the shakers, the Methodist enthusiasts (Wesley thought highly of Montanus and coined the term/definition Baptism in the Holy Spirit as a subsequent blessing), the Irvingites, the Sandford cult etc etc, I happily threw out the whole kit and caboodle and realized that the sign gifts ceased in the first century. All so-called restorations of them have been counterfeits. It seems some can’t bear that thought and fight it toofh and nail!
    I recommend Nader Mikhaiel ‘s THE TORONTO BLESSING AND SLAYING IN THE SPIRIT, THE TELLING WONDER. He covers the recent debacle revivals and has great details on early manifestations of Holy Laughter (eg. in Wesley’s meetings) and the facts re Azusa st. William Seymour NEVER spoke in tongues and befors his death RENOUNCED the teaching of the Spirit baptism with tongues as initial evidence, stating it led to WITCHCRAFT and IMMORALITY. (There were some illegitimate births from these meetings which, like other unpleasant facts, are well covered up). Grsar book. Worth seeking out.

  2. Mike Evans says:

    Terrific article Deborah.
    I have found this bizarre phenomenon to be true. I have commented on apostasy blogsites where contributers bemoan the excesses of charismania and the NAR. When I have pointed out that these errors were there from the outset with documented evidence, I have been met with criticism and certain links were removed. Conservative charismatics are as messed up as the extremists and devoted to their false tongues and continationism. Interesting that you have met with the same ridiculous attitude.

  3. Thanks Mike. It just shows you how cunning Satan really is.

  4. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Hi Mike :hi:

    Thanks for you comment. Yip, Satan has an answer for ever devious plan he comes up with to prevent the people from waking up.

  5. Mike Evans says:

    Yes Tom… and how determined he is to gain a foothold in the lives of believers (genuine or false) by getting them to accept his lies at ALL costs. I believe it his second bigget lust after his lust to be worshipped.
    Thus, Calvinists can lead people out of Pentecostalism and Catholicism but then subtley ensnare them in their own false paradigm, as Deborah mentioned above. A number of so-called discernment channels on YT (eg. Doreen Virtue) are busily exposing Bethel, Redding and the NAR while pushing the Reformed agenda. Chris Roseborough exposes charismania and the NAR but also promotes Lutheran doctrines inc. Baptismal regeneration, infsnt baptism, amillenialism and the legitimacy of statues in church (quoting the revisionist Romanist version of the 10 Commandments!)
    Here is a link to a well-researched series of articles on Pentecostalism which discloses their embracing of the German modernist doctrine of two kinds of tongues in scripture, known languages and ecstatic, unintelligible languages. Ironically, they had an extremely low view of scripture, which Pentecostals deceptively maintain they have, at least back in the early days. The Irvingites went down the SAME path, believing their tongues were from some obscure island before calling them angelic. This link is one that was censored from the Apostasy in the Church forum at Rapture forums, which pushes a conservative charismatic agenda.

  6. Thanks Mike for the valuable info you provided on tongues. My son and his wife have joined the Full Gospel Church of God in SA. As you must know, they too practice baptism in water which only washes away your past sins. The rest are cleansed only when you receive a second blessing (baptism in the Holy Ghost) which is evidenced by spiritual healing and speaking in tongues. The second blessing allegedly only happens by means of a severe effort to live a holy life. It is patently another gospel. What tickles me the most is that you receive a membership card to verify your acceptance as a member of their church. My heart is breaking.

  7. Mike Evans says:

    Sorry to hear that Tom.
    Is this denomination also a Modalist one?
    Sounds like they have the WORST of both errors re the (fictitious) ‘baptism in the Holy Spirit’ : sinless perfection AND false tongues. Both lethal.
    I still have a few friends in Pentecostalism. They do not listen to the facts. Paul didn’t mince words when he described those in serious error as Bewitched. They love their delusion. When I viewed the historical evidence re Parham, Seymour, Branham etc, I realised I was in a cult. There is an interesting series of YT videos by LongforTruth1 on early Pentecostalism.. One released yesterday revealed how much Parham imitated the (deadly) cult leader Sandford, who caused the deaths of many in his cult, inc children (babies had to fast with adults!). He also claimed to be Elijah and fought with Dowie ovet this lunatic idea.
    Nice to hear from you Deborah.
    ‘So little time, so much to expose, so few listening ” could be our motto!

  8. Hi Mike Evens :hi:

    you said “‘So little time, so much to expose, so few listening ” could be our motto!”

    It’s sad but SOOOO true.

  9. Hi Mike Evans

    Sorry this comment of yours landed in the SPAM section, I had to fish it out.

  10. Mike Evans says:

    Hi Deborah,
    I see you found my original comment. When it did not show, I assumed it was lost in thr ether and redid it. Thus there will be some repition in these first two responses from me. My best to you and Tom, Mike
    P. S. The whole Kanye phenomenon is something to behold. An “enfant terrible” who is the darling of the world and the apostate church. It reveals how primed they are for the ultimate false Christ to come. Did you notice that he classifies himself as “the greatest entertainer God created”? While Al Jolson, Mozart, Caruso, Judy Garland, Pavlova etc – just to name a few-could be said to have had more talent in their little toe than this rapping braggart, does not this sound like the One whose ideas of his own beauty and brightness got us all into this 6000-year mess?

  11. Hi Mike

    Yip, I saw that. When I was born again, I told Jesus Christ I was turning my back on all music (heavy metal in particular) as this was Satan’s entrance into my life + my rebellious nature as a teen. And I never just said I would sort of ‘half stop listening to music’ (or sit on the fence), I DID it! I turned my back on the world – and the thing I loved the most – music!

    Now, pop or rock I can’t stand to listen too and hard rock, punk, heavy metal repulses me.

    If Kanye West had a genuine conversation he would have forsaken the world (his music given to him by Satan), but he didn’t.

    You said “It reveals how primed they are for the ultimate false Christ to come.”

    How right you are. Kanye West might just be a tester to test the waters…and just maybe the people are ready?

  12. Angela Sharman says:

    Hi Deborah, Tom and Mike,

    A great article and I appreciate your articles, Deborah and Tom, as you cover the spectrum of so many things that have crept into the visible church, for example, the sheer mind boggling situation of 5 point calvinists on discernment websites calling out NAR!!

    Mike, you will know me as a fellow RFer and indeed “selective cessationist” as Andy Woods puts it 🙂 although I haven’t stated that outright on RF, it’s kinda obvious that’s the conclusion I’ve reached…clue – I have “creation” in my user name 🙂

    Its so tough now to keep tabs with everything that’s happening, its all kinda merging together…

    May God continue to help us in these very trying times!!!

    God bless, Ang

  13. Dear Angela Sharman

    Thank you for your comment :thumbsup: Love it when new people pop by and comment! :yahoo:

  14. Mike Evans says:

    Hi Angela,
    Did I help you find this website on RF?
    Great to read your comment here as well. I enjoy listening to Andy Woods, so thanks for referring him to me. Hope you got some good things from the link above to the articles on the censored history of Pentecostaism, which got censored on the last website I put it on!!
    Deborah and Tom have some great arricles on NAR heresies and Calvinism, as I am guessing you have discovered.

  15. Vincent Holloway says:

    I just watched a Docuseries on Netflix called: The Family based on a book by Jeff Sharlet, do you think they have anything to do with each other?

  16. Dear Vincent Holloway

    I have no idea what you are speaking about. :laugh:

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