Freemasonry and the Dutch Reformed Church – Part 1

Dutch Reformed Church Wolmaransstad - Freemason Obelisk

Dutch Reformed Church Wolmaransstad, Western Cape, South Africa and a Freemason Obelisk

Freemasonry and the Dutch Reformed Church

The following articles outlines the history of Freemasonry in the world and in particular South Africa; including it’s huge influence in the Dutch Reformed Church, the Afrikaner Broederbond and the building of the Voortrekker National Monument to name a few things.

Secret Societies Control the Rise and Fall of Empires

by Renette Vermeulen from Unbanned bible publications (permission received to publish)

Contents

  • 1) A FREEMASON’S DEFENSE
  • 2) ‘NOBLE FREEMASONS’ OCCUPY EVERY SIGNIFICANT SPHERE
  • 3) MASONS ARE NEW-AGERS, RACISTS, EVOLUTIONISTS, COMMUNISTS
  • 4) THE MASONIC PLAN IN ACTION
    • a. The religious Paradigm Shift
    • b. The Political Shift

1) A FREEMASON’S DEFENSE

I include the following because John wrote in Jn. 7:51, “the law does not judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing.”

In defense of freemasonry, Jim Treshner, Director of the Masonic Leadership Institute, 33rd degree Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, discusses Masonry “calmly and factually” to “separate needless attacks on victimized Masons.  Adversaries of masonry do not ask a knowledgeable mason for clarification… they simply read books written by anti-masons…”

Threshner insists that masonry is an honorable society that harbors no secrets, harmful rituals, or evil intentions.  He says it is NOT a religion, nor a persecutor of Christianity – on the contrary, it respects ALL religions.  He says Albert Pike’s book, ‘Morals and Dogma,’ is not masonic dogma.  Pike’s statement “Yes, we worship a god…  Lucifer is god…” were merely “taken out of context” to smear freemasons.

Treshner also states that King Phillip of France, in AD 1307, confiscated the vast treasures of the masonic Knights Templar, [the military monks of the Catholic church, who supposedly ‘guarded’ pilgrimages to the Holy Land,] and tortured them until they confessed that they worship Baphomet.  “The confession as well as the meaning of the name Baphomet was misquoted,” he alleges, “as it was merely a term for Mohammed in the Middle Ages, not a demon.  These lies were spread by anti-masonic writers…”

So, is Treshner saying that the Knights Templar worships Mohammed and not Satan?

What nonsense!

Shockingly, Constance Cumbey also alleges in her book, ‘A Planned Deception,’ which no Jewish conspiracy, controlling Jewish monetary system or powerful society such as the Cabalist Sanhedrin exists in the world.  She declares, “Such allegations are merely Hitlerism, which is anti-Semitism, occult traps designed to pit one target group against another…  Freemasonry functioned then [during Hitler’s reign,] as it does now, as a sort of occult whipping boy…  Paul, also an object of occult hatred, summed it up well when he told the early Christians to ‘Boast not against the branches…'”

We all know that God forbids anti-Semitism.

Nevertheless, Cabalist and other Masonic Powers, their incredibly destructive beliefs, and their evil influences on both politics and religion, are sure realities.  God commanded us to TEST EVERYTHING in the light of His Word, the Bible, to reject what is false and then to hold on to what is good, (1 Ths. 5:21.)

God also commanded us to expose evil, false Christian doctrine, and false Christian leaders especially.  Eph. 5:11-17, “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them…  See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil…  Understand what the will of the Lord is…”

2) ‘NOBLE FREEMASONS’ OCCUPY EVERY SIGNIFICANT SPHERE

While Hitler’s persecution on the lower ranks of freemasonry might have been a scapegoat to cover his ties with Skull and Bones and other secret societies, as well as the crypto Jewish blood in his own veins, there is still nothing innocent or free about freemasonry.  Serious scholars of the Bible, historians, and those who have knowledge of masonic doctrine know that, even if Treshner’s and Cumbey’s defense of freemasonry (and Zionist-masonic Jews) holds water, it still cannot be a coincidence that we find ‘noble’ masons, Jewish or otherwise, occupying and influencing nearly every significant sphere of life.  More importantly, the long-term political and religious fruit, which these masons bear, are simply horrendous!

McLoud wrote in ‘Actors in the Last Act,’ The masonic creed of the 3rd degree states, “If a brother discloses any of our secrets… even if a minister of the church pray in the Name of Christ in any of our meetings, you must be ready… to slit his throat from side to side, pluck his tongue out at the roots…  The Cabalist Jew, Jacob Falk … stands alone in his generation because of his knowledge of the holy mysteries…  Falk was in contact with Frank, Mendelssohn, Rothschild, and Adam Weishaupt.”  Lucien Wolf confirmed, “[For centuries] these Cabalist Jews have been furnishing money and information to insurgents, army contractors, and they became loan-mongers and super-spies…  The Rothschild Dynasty has been making loans not to individuals, but to kings and presidents…”

The reason why anti-masonic writers do not ask “a knowledgeable mason for information,” is that all masons were sworn to silence.  They will always lie about their secretive religion.

Even if Jim Treshner could defend Albert Pike’s declaration that “Lucifer [and Baphomet,] is god…” he cannot deny that in the ritual of exultation, (as early as the 4th degree,) the name of the Great Architect of the Universe, Baphomet, is revealed to the master mason as Jahbulon.  Stephen Knight explained, “Jahbulon is a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being – a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused into one,” – and this name signifies the unholy trinity of Satan.

Freemasony-Jahbulon-the-god-of-the-masonic-lodg

The name of the Great Architect of the Universe, Jahbulon, the god of the masonic lodge, is revealed to the master mason first.  ‘High’ masons know him as Baphomet, the goat-god of lust and power.

3) MASONS ARE NEW-AGERS, RACISTS, EVOLUTIONISTS, COMMUNISTS

In her book, Constance Cumbey focuses solely on the New Age Theosophical Society, (a common anti-cult-mistake,) omitting the other societies that are behind the ills of this world.  All secret societies, however, are linked.  Cabalists, Illuminists, Freemasons, Bonesmen, etc., are all inherently committed to the imperialist spirit of evolution, communism, and the New Age.

Although freemasons, for instance, proclaim Lucifer as god, the core of their religion still  centers on the theory of evolution, which is the belief that a ‘big bang’ formed the universe, and that all living things accidentally ‘evolved’ from a single cell which came to life “all by itself.”

However, the false anti-God, antichrist, anti-creation theory of evolution, which is actually New Age religion, goes way beyond the ridiculous idea that humans evolved into superior animals!

All New-Agers, freemasons, communists, and evolutionists ‘build bridges’ or ‘network’ with other occult organizations through their central belief in humanism.  The core of humanism teaches that humans have ‘evolved’ to become a ‘superior animal-species,’ therefore, ‘all we (self-creators) are gods, who simply have to realize that the christ-consciousness lives in every one of us.  As soon as we humans realize that we are gods, we will begin to evolve spiritually, until we realize that collectively, the human species itself is God.’

‘Networking’ means that societies must ‘link’ with the worldwide web of ‘cells,’ or secret societies, and work together to bring “The Global [New Age] Vision” into being.  The Global Vision means that collectively, those humans, who had eventually evolved into ‘god,’ must bring the New Age Masonic christ, the ultimate spiritual evolutionist, to his global throne.  Ethan Allen Hitchcock, a Rosicrucian mason, worked with Albert Pike of freemasonry’s Scottish rite towards The New Age/Communist ‘Plan’ to unify the entire world under the rule of ‘the christ.’

Undoubtedly, ‘the christ’ is the head of masonic doctrine globally.

All other members of this ‘scientific’ School of Spiritual Research, (like Lenin and Trotsky of Russia; Herman Hess of Germany and so on,) all adhered to the communist Plan of Global Rule, as proclaimed by the Tibetan Masters, the powerful spirits that controlled Hitler.  [Read the article, ‘Weird Truth about Nazism.’]

Hitler and Carl Jung, the founder of Analytical Psychology, also attended this satanic ‘school.’

Consequently, Hitler believed himself to be ‘the christ,’ the ‘matreya,’ and ‘avatar,’ (or the embodiment of ‘the christ’ spirit,) the ultimate spiritual evolutionist, who had to ascend to his global throne.  So did Napoleon, Stalin, and many others.

‘The Plan’ includes making ‘academically acceptable’ the teaching that, in a Communist Paradise of complete desolation, the New World Order will bring ‘order from chaos’ through the ‘networking’ of its many secret societies.

It is important to note that all these ‘god men’ are also extreme racists, as we will see in the next part of this book.

4) THE MASONIC PLAN IN ACTION

a. The religious Paradigm Shift

To achieve The Communist Plan of totalitarian world domination, there must be a PARADIGM SHIFT in religious thought, especially in Biblical faith, executed through communism’s Socialist Christian Wing, which had already infiltrated all the structures of Christianity.  As frequently revealed on TBN, this ‘Paradigm Shift’ is the ‘sound doctrine’ behind Kingdom-Now theologians of all denominations.

This popular phrase means the following, and it is based on the false doctrines of the ‘One Man Antichrist,’ ‘Israeli Timeline,’ and ‘Pre-tribulation Rapture.’  [Read about the origins of these doctrines in the e-book, ‘The Old and New Apostolic Churches Revised.’] —[ DTWnote: we do not agree with this statement.]

Although not openly declared in paradigm churches, “The Paradigm Shift” actually means a ‘shift’ in Biblical faith.  Biblical faith consists of belief in the entirety of Biblical Scripture – which is the essence and truth of God Himself, revealed to humanity.  However, according the ‘paradigm shift’ doctrine, Biblical faith is the “Old Paradigm.”  The Old Paradigm consists of the belief that “God is the Creator of the universe, that the salvation of man rests solely in the completed atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ in his place, and that this earth is destined for fire,” as heaven is the eternal home of the sincerely saved in Jesus Christ.  Now, this Old Paradigm must ‘Shift’ to the New Paradigm, which is the masonic belief that “life on earth evolved without the Creator,” that heaven and God’s SPIRITUAL Kingdom on earth are “myths, and that the christ of the Kingdom-Now theology, backed by the Planetary Rulers, the Tibetan Masters of the Universe, will be the Saviour of humankind and all creation.”  Once this religious ‘shift’ has taken place on a global scale, this strange christ will then rule his New Age Civilization, the new communist paradise, his heaven on earth, in global ‘peace and prosperity,’ (1 Ths. 5:1-6.)

Inside church - freemason obelisc                      Freemasony - obelisc Durch Reformed church - tower

ABOVE, From Left to Right:

  1. The obelisk or ‘Babylonian Tower’ is the pagan symbol of phallic and sun worship!  In pagan (Babylonian) culture, (AS IN FREEMASONRY AND ALL OTHER MASONIC ORDERS,) the sun god or fertility god Baal, (Lucifer or Satan,) and the phallus, (male reproductive organ,) have always been revered as ‘the givers of life.’
  2. In ALL Christian denominations, the church tower has always been, and always will be a symbol of freemasonry sun worship in the church.
  3. An obelisk in a church signifies masonic/phallic/Lucifarian worship.

GOD FORBADE SUCH IDOLATRY IN BOTH THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENTS! – 2 Kings 10:26-27; 1 Cor. 10:14-22. 

b.  The Political Shift

Working closely with their religious counterparts, politically motivated New Age communists also declare The Paradigm Shift, which consists of a global, political ‘change.’

The Political Paradigm Shift is The Global Shift from so-called capitalism to communism through the implementation of socialism, terrorism, and the fanatical so-called ‘passive’-resistance chaos of Mahatma Gandhi.

Incidentally, Gandhi’s ‘peaceful’ marches always erupt in violent protests, riots, and bomb blasts; resulting in the slaughter of thousands upon thousands of innocent bystanders.  However, those surrendered to The Shift know that the fulfillment of The Plan has a price tag attached.  That means, “Inevitably, there will be casualties of war.  [Of course, these innocent bystanders are simply disposable ‘cannon fodder.’]  All initiates must fanatically surrender the ‘self’ in order to suffer and die for the ultimate communist cause!”  Communistically brainwashed martyrs like suicide bombers and ‘freedom fighting’ terrorists are therefore unstoppable and unreachable in their destructive quest for totalitarian rule of the world, which clarifies the admirable motivation of terrorists like Nelson Mandela who paid the ‘price’ of spending 26 years in prison to become the first black, communist president of the ‘new’ South Africa.

source:  http://www.unbannedbiblepublications.com/index_files/Page37109.htm


 Continue to read here: arrow  5) THE DISARMAMENT OF THE WORLD  (PART 2)

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Tom (Discerning the World)

Christine (Justina) Erikson

Please explain to me the meaning of Luke 12:36 with special reference to “when he will return FROM the wedding. To whom did He say this – his Bride?

At any rate, Paul said that the Rapture of the dead in Christ and those who will still be alive will be changed to meet Him in the air in the twinkling of an eye. In Matthew 24 Jesus warns that those who are on the roof top or in the field should not return to their homes to take anything out of their houses but to flee to the mountains. Nothing is said about the dead in Christ. Now, why would He give this warning when the Rapture is an event that is going to happen in the twinkling of an eye? Surely, you don’t tell someone not to return to his home when they are going to be changed in a twinkling of an eye to meet Him in the air? There won’t be time to go to their houses to take anything out of their homes when they are going to be changed in the twinkling of an eye. And why would He warn someone to flee to the mountains when they are going to meet Him in the air? Matthew 24 does NOT describe the Rapture.

Christine (Justina) Erikson

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Christine
You say “could the pretrib rapture lie be not some harmless error, but be setting some up for a fake rapture for a fake jesus, to be grabbed by demons or a cult to be killed or worse?” A fake rapture? Please tell us how something like this would be pulled of?

real easy. already there have been people in 1844 a large group who sold all and went to some hill to wait the second coming and it didn’t happen, they went home okay, the russellites morphed into SDA and JW after that. but supposing some team had been waiting to kill them? or aliens in flying saucers to take them? or demons strong enough because of many blood sacrifices to kill them or take them into some parallel dimension?

or people looking to kill Christians without anything unusual except some fake imagery perhaps and “He is in the desert” or “open the door to the messengers and go with them” and they end up in a concentration camp.

Christine (Justina) Erikson

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Chrisine
>>> you can’t get pretrib without twisting things and taking out of context.
Interesting that you say that, so please tell me where does the Bhema Seat of Christ, the wedding festival and Saints returning WITH Jesus to earth fit into your picture.

The Judgement Seat of Christ is not at the Second Coming, Revelation is clear, the Last Judgement and the Wedding of the Lamb is after that. first the devil is fully bound, not just crippled like now, for a thousand years, then he is let loose to tempt the nations one more time, as a result of this there is a revolt against Jesus’ rule, which is put down, THEN the resurrection of all the dead and judgement, THEN the New Jerusalem comes down and the wedding of the Lamb.

I don’t understand how people can read Revelation, and not see this, but if you rely on the traditions of men constructed out of bits and pieces of Scripture then you get confused.

The Bhema or Judgement Seat and Wedding is NOT AT THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING BUT AFTER THAT. over a thousand years after that. its real simple if you don’t try to write everything off as “spiritual” and not meaning what it says.

Christine (Justina) Erikson

Tom (Discerning the World) wrote:

Christine (Justina) Erikson
Please explain to me the meaning of Luke 12:36 with special reference to “when he will return FROM the wedding. To whom did He say this – his Bride?

ANSWER: the context is the answer to your question. He didn’t say this about the Bride or to her, He was talking about worthy vs. unworthy servants the latter in danger of wrath. He was talking to the Apostles and about those servants who are to feed other servants, the higher level servants in a household who manage the rest, so this is about the pastors and bishops.

At any rate, Paul said that the Rapture of the dead in Christ and those who will still be alive will be changed to meet Him in the air in the twinkling of an eye. In Matthew 24 Jesus warns that those who are on the roof top or in the field should not return to their homes to take anything out of their houses but to flee to the mountains. Nothing is said about the dead in Christ. Now, why would He give this warning when the Rapture is an event that is going to happen in the twinkling of an eye?

ANSWER again, you deal with some tiny point out of context. Paul said our transformation will be in the twinkling of an eye, instead of going through death and resurrection into the physical but immortal bodies, we will be transformed into them instantly while being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, where we stay with Him and remain with Him as He descends to earth to rule on earth after destroying the antichrist and his followers.

Tom (Discerning the World)

Believers and unbelievers are not going to be judged at the same time – at some time after the Second Coming of Christ, as you said.

You said, “I don’t understand how people can read Revelation, and not see, but if you rely on the traditions of men . . . . you get confused.”

It is quite obvious that you are the one who is confused. How can you not see and understand the meaning of Revelation 20 verses 4 and 5? These verses make it abundantly clear that the saints who will have been saved and beheaded during the seven year tribulation will be resurrected BEFORE the 1000 years to reign with Christ IN the Millennium ON EARTH (not in heaven because saints won’t have anyone to reign over in heaven. God alone reigns in heaven).

Where does it say that these saints are going to be judged “NOT AT THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING BUT AFTER THAT. over a thousand years after that”?

Indeed, they are NOT going to be judged at the Second Coming of Christ. In fact, they are not going to be judged at all – not then and not over a thousand years after that. Why would God want to judge someone “OVER A THOUSAND YEARS AFTER THAT” when they had already reigned with Him for a thousand years? Their reign with Christ during the Millennium IS their reward and therefore they won’t need to be judged. In fact, they will be the ones doing the judgment in the Millennium together with Christ.

Unbelievers (all of them and not a single believer whatsoever) are going to be judged AFTER the 1000 years of peace on earth. Can’t you see or understand what the little word “rest” means? It means that a certain group of people will already have been resurrected (those described in verse 4) and that the rest (the remaining dead) will only be judged AFTER the 1000 years. Can’t you see that?

If, as you said, the judgment of believers and unbelievers as well as the wedding of the Lamb are going to take place – NOT AT THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING BUT AFTER THAT, over a thousand years after that – what do you make of Luke 12:36? I asked you what this verse means but see that you conveniently ignored me. Let us look at it closely,

“And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return FROM the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.”

Now, unless He is going to be married by proxy in heaven while his Bride is still here on earth, we cannot possibly place the wedding AFTER the 1000 years on earth. It makes no sense. First of all, why would He warn someone to be ready so that they may open the door when He knocks when all things pertaining to the resurrection, judgement and so forth, had been fully completed? In fact, the very first verse of Revelation 21 (which follows chapter 20 chronologically, says,

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

If, as Luke 12:36 says, Jesus returns to earth FROM the wedding, AND IF He is NOT going to be married by proxy but with his Bride at his side in heaven, then she MUST have been gathered to Him somewhere prior to their wedding in heaven. Indeed, the Pre-tribulation Rapture is the only feasible explanation because it fits in perfectly with the rest of the end-times. Even the very first prophet said so,

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

They are going to come WITH HIM to do what? To judge the ungodly! If, as you said, judgment is going to be meted out right at the end of the thousand years while the new earth and the heaven is going to commence immediately after the 1000 years, who are they going to judge?

I really think you are the confused one who does not understand Revelation.

Tom (Discerning the World)

WOW, now you really have proven that you are confused. You obviously do not know what a wedding is? I assume that when you got married, you said to your husband, “Sweetie, you really should see this in context. You are not really my bridegroom. I am just testing you to see whether you are a worthy or unworthy servant of my wrath.”

I have debated many people on the internet about the Rapture and all of them used the very same tactic you are using here – “You are dealling with some tiny point out of cxontext.” Only those who are alive will not go through death unto resurrection. Many who have died in Christ will be dead when He comes at the Rapture. So your context-argumement falls flat – flatter – altogether flat on its face.

Christine (Justina) Erikson

Tom (Discerning the World) wrote:

WOW, now you really have proven that you are confused. You obviously do not know what a wedding is? I assume that when you got married, you said to your husband, “Sweetie, you really should see this in context. You are not really my bridegroom. I am just testing you to see whether you are a worthy or unworthy servant of my wrath.”

The problem of your confusion is not context so much as failure to understand, that the bride of Christ has not yet been in the wedding. That doesn’t happen until after He comes back and has been here a long time. you are also taking analogies, which are many and varied therefore none of them exact let alone to what you are used to beyond a mere similarity, and treating them as absolutes.

Rev. 21:1, 2 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
“And I john saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND.”

St. Paul doesn’t say we ARE the bride of Christ he says we are BETROTHED to Christ, 2 Cor. 11:2. though he uses the word “espoused,” he says he did so to present you as a pure virgin to Christ, so this espousal is what we would call a betrothal. if you haven’t been presented to your husband yet, you can’t call it a wedding.

In any case, your argument falls flat because of centuries of persecution, which when we suffer we get a better resurrection than if we didn’t. Heb. 11:35. What is so unique about the antichrist’s persecution, what is new about being offered the choice of apostasy or death? nothing. and if he is killing such vast numbers that Jesus said no flesh would be left alive unless this were cut short, then he doesn’t have time for much torture and probably will use the guillotine a lot. Beheading is an easy way to die, only conscious a few seconds and not as much pain as a broken leg.

If your argument about not testing the bride (or bride to be) is true, then none of the persecutions from apostolic times to now would ever have happened. So you need to rethink everything.

Tom (Discerning the World)

Christine (Justina) Erikson

There is a huge difference between Jerusalem ‘PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND” and THE BRIDE (ALL THE BELIEVERS WHO HAD BEEN WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST). The Bride is NOT prepared AS a Bride in heaven. She IS the Bride who has been prepared to be his Bride on earth.

What on earth is the difference between the Bride of Christ and BETROTHED to Christ? Really, you should learn what a wedding and a bride and a bridegroom and betrothed mean. They all refer to a wedding and a marriage. And Luke 12:36 distinctly says He returns FROM the wedding WITH his Bride. (Jude verse 14).

If your assertion that the Bride of Christ will go through the tribulation then precious few of his Bride will be alive at a Post-trib Rapture because God is going to give Antichrist the power to overcome and slaughter them (Revelation 13:7).

At any rate Jesus promised,

Rev 3:10: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word “from” in this instance does not mean to be kept safe within the zone or sphere of danger. It means He is going to remove the believers completely out of (from one place to another) the zone or sphere of danger. If it were true that He is going to keep them safe in the tribulation as He had done with Israel in Goshen, then Revelation 13:7 is a lie.

I don’t need to rethink anything. There is a vast difference between the persecution of the saints and God’s wrath falling on the wicked. You should rethink Revelation 3:10. Not only that, you should rethink what wedding, marriage, bride and bridegroom and betrothed mean. You will only learn to understand the Rapture when you have learned what these terms really mean.

The Christians who are going to be persecuted in the tribulation are NOT his Bride but Jews and Gentiles who are going to be saved at that time.

Christine (Justina) Erikson

Tom (Discerning the World) wrote:
I’m going to try to make it simple for you, and I’m very tired right now so I am trying to make it simple for me.

The wedding is AFTER the last judgement (yes the ones reigning with Him do not go through this except perhaps to settle what they got coming good or bad for how they did their job but they are safe from the second death).

The wedding is AFTER there is a new heavens and a new earth.

a wedding is where you get married, and up to that time you are betrothed or engaged to get married, before that you are sizing each other up and then make the commitment level of betrothal.

RULE NUMBER ONE: all this stuff you are focusing on is analogy, not literal central but using something people knew about to help tell them about something that cannot be entirely explained easily. So you can’t get bogged down in details.

RULE NUMBER TWO: any of these parable analogies are not necessarily focused on who the bride is and that’s you and whoop dee doo. none of them are in fact, if I recall right, they focus on making sure you so behave and keep your mind that you won’t miss the party or won’t get punished for being a lousy servant but rewarded.

RULE NUMBER THREE: the rest of analogies and parables some more explicit than others, such as last judgement scenes incl. one parable about a man returning from a long trip and finding his servant has been beating those he was to care for, another about the talents, and the more explanation needing parable of the sower, not to mention the analogies of us “the bride” to branches on a vine, with warning that a branch that doesn’t cling to the core trunk (Jesus) withers, dries, doesn’t bear fruit, dies, and is cut out and thrown in the fire (yes you can lose your salvation, also a warning of the parable of the sower) ALL NEED TO BE PAID ATTENTION TO.

All this ranting about brides and weddings doesn’t sound like you or anyone else is doing that.

And frankly, you don’t see much such focus in Paul’s letters, maybe one or two quick references. A big long lecture however on the church as an ORGANIC CREATURE similar to a body from one view, or a Portuguese Man O War multi critter going to make one critter type thing from another view.

The church is also called the pillar and foundation of the truth. (needs a roof but these are the serious elements of a building.) it is the housing of the truth. What is the Truth? JESUS is the truth. The Holy Spirit in the Church feed us Jesus’ truth in the Scriptures and in GIVING US COMMON SENSE IF WE WILL RECEIVE IT, HINT, HINT.

have Jesus’ idea of a nice day.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Christine

Christine
You say “could the pretrib rapture lie be not some harmless error, but be setting some up for a fake rapture for a fake jesus, to be grabbed by demons or a cult to be killed or worse?” A fake rapture? Please tell us how something like this would be pulled of?

real easy. already there have been people in 1844 a large group who sold all and went to some hill to wait the second coming and it didn’t happen, they went home okay, the russellites morphed into SDA and JW after that. but supposing some team had been waiting to kill them? or aliens in flying saucers to take them? or demons strong enough because of many blood sacrifices to kill them or take them into some parallel dimension?

or people looking to kill Christians without anything unusual except some fake imagery perhaps and “He is in the desert” or “open the door to the messengers and go with them” and they end up in a concentration camp.

No Christine, I asked you how the evil powers of the world going to pull off a false rapture where millions of people just vanish into thin air in the twinkling of an eye. Your answer is totally a load of nonsense. Rounding up people to put into concentration camps takes time Christine and everyone will notice and silly people waiting on a hill who don’t vanish because they are deceived is not an answer to my question.

Tom (Discerning the World)

Christine (Justina) Erikson wrote

I’m going to try to make it simple for you, and I’m very tired right now so I am trying to make it simple for me. . . .

a wedding is where you get married, and up to that time you are betrothed or engaged to get married, before that you are sizing each other up and then make the commitment level of betrothal.

Nothing is more simpler than the meaning of the word “wedding” in Luke 12:36. However, you refuse to accept the most simple of the simplest.

You really don’t have to educate me on the marriage custom of the Near East, especially the Jewish custom. Any simple old guy like myself knows that – in the Jewish marriage custom – “betrothal” and the “wedding” proper differ in regard to the time frame but are exactly the same with regard to its eternal substance.

In 2 Corinthians 11:2 the word for “espoused” or “betrothed” is “harmozō” and in Luke 12:36 the word for wedding is “gamos.” The word “ἁρμόζω” (betrothed) means to join or to fit together or to GIVE one in marriage to someone. Paul is saying in effect, “When I proclaimed the Gospel to you and you received it and Jesus became your only Saviour, I joined you to Him. I fitted you to Him as a carpenter would fit things together. I espoused you to Him.”

The word “γάμος” (wedding, “gamos”) is the wedding proper or the final consummation of the wedding. At the translation of the church (all the true believers) Christ appears as a Bridegroom to take his bride unto Himself, so that the relationship that was pledged at the “betrothal” (“harmozō”) may be consummated and that the two might become one for all eternity.

It ties in perfectly with the marriage custom of the Jews. First the couple is “betrothed” (or engaged, as you said) and then the knot is tied (when the wedding proper takes place). The bride is betrothed to the bridegroom; the bridegroom returns to his father’s home where he prepares a place for them to live; he returns secretly like a thief in the night at midnight and snatches her away to live with him forevermore.

You wrote,

RULE NUMBER ONE: all this stuff you are focusing on is analogy, not literal central but using something people knew about to help tell them about something that cannot be entirely explained easily. So you can’t get bogged down in details.

Post-tribulationists and and Post-millennialists have a god they call “ANALOGY.” To them the book of Revelation is merely a series of analogies. Remember, an analogy or a symbol cannot be an analogy or a symbol without literalness. They merely describe a literal event or events in symbolic form.

That’s your whole problem! You have never studied the details, the result being that you don’t know what you are talking about. Instead you have become bogged down in a miry marsh of lies , for instance that Pre-tribulationism is a new doctrine, arising in the last hundred years, and therefore to be rejected because it is not apostolic.

Paul called the Rapture a mystery which simply (made simple for you) means that it had never been revealed in the past and only became known when Jesus chose him to be the instrument by whom He wanted to reveal the Rapture. Do you reject the Rapture because it was unknown in the OT and even to Jesus Christ’s immediate apostles? Does their ignorance of the Rapture nullify the doctrine of the Rapture?

You wrote,

All this ranting about brides and weddings doesn’t sound like you or anyone else is doing that.

Again this proves that you know nothing about the imminent return of Jesus Christ at the Rapture. Your view that the wedding takes place after there is a new heavens and a new earth destroys the doctrine of imminency of the Rapture.

You wrote,

The church is also called the pillar and foundation of the truth. (needs a roof but these are the serious elements of a building.) it is the housing of the truth. What is the Truth? JESUS is the truth. The Holy Spirit in the Church feed us Jesus’ truth in the Scriptures and in GIVING US COMMON SENSE IF WE WILL RECEIVE IT, HINT, HINT

Indeed, common sense tells us that when Jesus returns from the wedding, He will be returning WITH his Bride and NOT to her because He is not going to present his Bride to his Father by proxy. The marriage of the Lamb is NOT going to be consummated by proxy. Now, that’s what I call common sense.

I really don’t have time to waste on people who refuse to use their common sense. I shall not reply to any of your comments again. In fact, I shall delete them as I did your previous common-senseless comments.

Ida

Why is everybody talking about Eschatology when this is about freemasonry in the church? Huh

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Ida

You said “Why is everybody talking about Eschatology when this is about freemasonry in the church? Huh”

Because that’s the direction the conversation took… Wink/

Klippies

We must be careful to separate Muslim Allah from Satan, remember the morning star that felt from heaven, today that stone is being worshiped in mecca. Also, read 1 John 2:22 is this not muslim = anti-christ. and lastly, the ten heads refered to in Revelations, refer to the 10 great “world’kingdoms, the last fallen was the Ottoman kingdom a muslim kingdom. The tenth head is wounded and recovers, what is happening in the world today, the invasion of Europe … Read the book or watch the video’s of God’s war on Terror written bt Walid Shoebat.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Klippies

You said “We must be careful to separate Muslim Allah from Satan”

Satan is not a piece of stone. That stone is just an oversize idol representing Allah who is Satan.

1 John 2:22 “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”

This is not just Islam but every religion that is NOT Christian including Roman Catholicism which all stem from Nimrod and Babylon. This verse is not talking about THE antichrist but every person who “denieth Jesus is the Christ” is an antichrist.

    1 John 2:21-26 (KJV) “21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.”

Walid Shoebat is a Catholic. Walid Shoebat is purposefully laying all the blame on Islam, when he does not realise that it’s Rome who created and controls Islam to do it’s dirty work. Rome and Islam are Babylonian brothers, with the Catholic Babylonian brother dominating it’s little Islamic brother to create all the havoc while the big Catholic brother plays world peace maker.

http://shoebat.com/2013/06/12/them-damned-catholics/

Renette Vermeulen

[Deleted by DTW]

Dear Renette

I’ve read your article before and what is sad is that you have taken the same lies propagated by others and re-printed them. You don’t actually understand Dispensationalism at all because instead of studying it thoroughly to find the truth in scripture you have re-hashed out all the errors from others who didn’t take the time to study the bible either. How can you critique something you don’t even understand? Tom did 4 articles by Paul Benson, read them if you care to.

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