The Legacy of John Calvin – Part 1

John Calvin


John Calvin’s day of birth 500 years ago on July 10, 1509 is a red letter day on the Protestants calendar this year. While many disillusioned clergy and congregates in the emergent church, who have lost their faith in the institutionalized church, are seeking new ways of interpreting the Bible and worshiping God, Calvinism has remained robust and alive in institutionalized Protestant churches.

In fact, many claim that Calvinism is experiencing an international resurgence. The most alarming fact about this resurgence is that Calvinism is finding a cozy niche in the Emerging Church, especially through its outreach to the youth, which makes it one of the vanguards in the establishment of the end-time one-world church. Michael Beck, a pastor of the Reformed Baptist Church in New Zealand says:

“There is currently a world wide resurgence of Calvinistic thought that is sure to have a growing influence upon the emerging church in New Zealand. This, in turn, is very likely to present the Reformed community with many unique ministry opportunities. So as to be ready for these, we should be both well informed and warmly engaged. ” (Read article here).

The question we should ask ourselves is: Has Calvinism saddled the Emerging Church horse with an intent to firmly take hold of the reins and steer the “horse” wherever it wills (no pun intended when you take into account that Calvinists reject the doctrine of free-will) or is it merely sitting on the “horse’s” back and allowing the “horse” to hold the reins in its mouth and allowing it to take Calvinism wherever it wills?

New Calvinism of which Mark Driscoll (pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle) is a leading figure, is not “new” in the sense of being different or novel. The term “new” in New Calvinism refers to a new generation embracing “old” or “genuine” or “original” Calvinism.

Even Rob Bell, one of the most influential pastors in the Emergent Church, urges the readers on page 182 of his book Velvet Elvis to read absolutely everything John Piper (a five-point Calvinist) has written. To entertain you with some of the things John Piper has written, allow me to draw your attention to the following brilliant contradiction.

We do not deny that all men are the intended beneficiaries of the cross in some sense . . . . . What we deny is that all men are intended as the beneficiaries of the death of Christ in the same way.

All of God’s mercy toward unbelievers – from the rising sun (Matthew 5:45) to the worldwide preaching of the gospel (John 3:16) – is made possible because of the cross. . . . Every time the gospel is preached to unbelievers it is the mercy of God that gives this opportunity for salvation. (Emphasis in original) (1) Christ’s death so clearly demonstrates God’s just abhorrence of sin that he is free to treat the world with mercy without compromising his righteousness.

In this sense Christ is the savior of all men. But he is especially the Savior of those who believe. He did not die for all men in the same sense . . . . The death of Christ actually saves from all evil those for whom Christ died “especially. [Emphasis in original] (2)

In some sense Calvinism may be called the IN SOME SENSE GOSPEL when the cross of Jesus Christ is applied to the reprobate and the IN THE SAME SENSE GOSPEL when it is applied to the elect. The “IN THE SOME SENSE GOSPEL” preached to the reprobate cannot possibly benefit the non-elect “IN THE SAME SENSE” it benefits the elect.

Think of it: two simple little letters in the alphabet, the “o” and the “a” determine where you are going to spend eternity – heaven or hell. If you belong to the “o” category Gospel (“some sense) you are doomed to eternal destruction in hell because it can never benefit you in the same way it benefits the “a” category (same sense) elected people.

If the preaching of the Gospel is to grant unbelievers in general an opportunity to be saved, how do we determine which is the “SOME SENSE GOSPEL” and which is the SAME SENSE GOSPEL” folk?

It shouldn’t be to difficult. Imagine Jesus preaching to the “some sense” folk and the “same sense” folk saying: “You and you and you and yes you too (don’t walk away) and the folk who are standing over there, please move to my left because I have determined before the foundation of the earth that you will be the “some sense” beneficiaries of my death.

What does that mean, you may ask. Well it simply means that you cannot benefit from my death on the cross “in the same way” my beloved chosen or elect are benefitting from it. They are the ones I will now draw in power and monergistically to my right.

Let us now take a look at the “old” Calvinism which the new generation is embracing under the tutorship of leading Calvinists. Calvin’s major contribution to the Christian church is his Institutes of the Christian Religion, first published in 1536.

Though many staunch Calvinists regard him as the most ingenuous expositor and defender of the Christian faith, there are others who cannot stomach some of the means he used to defend the Christian faith, such as the murder of Servetus. Enough has been written about his dictatorial behaviour in Geneva and it is not my intention to expound on the way he governed the church.

My main objective is to evaluate his sotereology (doctrine of redemption) in the light of the Word of God. It is on this particular topic, the appraisal of Calvin’s doctrine of redemption, that I want to appeal to my readers to bear with me and also to take into account that I am not focusing my discourse on individuals but merely trying to obey God’s Word by being a Berean and to see whether Calvin’s teachings and of those who follow him are in harmony with God’s Word.

Our duty as Christians is to thoroughly examine any doctrine tied to the name of a man who claims to have had divine inspiration. The most hideous crime against humanity is to misrepresent the most holy Triune God and the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; nothing equals it’s dreadfulness because it “shuts the Kingdom of heaven in men’s faces” (Matthew 23:13). No wonder the Bible warns that whosoever does not speak according to His Word is void of any light.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8: 20-KJV)

Am I suggesting that Calvinists are not saved? No! Absolutely not. Countless individuals have been saved by the grace of God the moment they put their trust in Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross before they embraced Calvinism.

Nevertheless, the countless individuals who have been saved before they willingly inherited the legacy of John Calvin, does not sanction his core teaching that God predestined some to eternal bliss and others to eternal damnation and neither does it minimize the fact that countless individuals could have been saved had they not been shut out of the Kingdom of Heaven by a doctrine that misrepresents the God of the Bible.

Paul, unquestionably the greatest missionary of all time, never danced to the most popular heretical tunes of his time; he often wielded the Sword of the Spirit swiftly and accurately (Galatians 1:8 and 9).

The slightest diversion from the Gospel of Jesus Christ wounded him deeply, even to the extent that he often wept very bitterly. His constant agony over his Jewish brethren made him express the wish to be damned in their place. In my rebuttal to Bob de Waay, who wrote an article entitled “Recovering Reformation Theology,” I responded as follows:

Moses’ and Paul’s compassion for lost souls upsets John Calvin’s doctrine of selective and predestined redemption.

Calvinists claim that the doctrine of predestination is a Pauline doctrine. I have often wondered why Paul preferred to be accursed (separated) from the eternal presence of God for the sake of his reprobate Jewish brethren (Romans 9: 1-3) whilst he should have known that they were the accursed of God (doomed to a predestined eternal suffering in hell), even before the foundation of the world -simply because it was God’s good pleasure to do so.

As such Paul was in direct conflict with God’s sovereign will and decree and guilty of downright disobedience. On the other hand, it may be that he was completely ignorant of the doctrine of predestination which the Calvinists’ claim originated with him.

Hadn’t he been so oblivious of God’s sovereign decree to damn all the reprobate, simply because it was His good pleasure, he would probably never have had any desire for His “reprobate” brethren to be saved and would never have expressed the desire to be damned in their behalf.

We should bear in mind that Paul vigorously and single-mindedly expressed the desire to imitate His Master in all things and even once declared that he, together with all Christians throughout the ages, have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2: 16).

It simply means, they ought to think and act upon the same principles of love, compassion, longsuffering and graciousness Christ fostered in His own heart when He was on earth.

If Paul and his brethren throughout the ages truly “have/had the mind of Christ,” they too should have taken pleasure in the autonomously decreed damnation of the reprobate and cheerfully obeyed and supported God in His divinely ordained ruling to damn all the reprobate.

Was Paul disobeying God’s sovereign decree to pleasurably damn all the reprobate to hell when he expressed the profound wish to be damned himself so that, if it were possible, all his reprobate brethren could be saved?

One may conclude that Paul’s was a case of the sovereignly elected who for the sake of the sovereignly non-elected passionately desired to become a sovereignly chosen non-elected so that the sovereignly decreed non-elected could be saved. In similar fashion, Moses begged God to blot his name out of his book He had written for the sake of his eternally and sovereignly decreed reprobate brethren (Exodus 31: 32).

The contention, of course, may be that neither Paul nor Moses referred to the children of the flesh (unsaved or non-elect) but the children of the promise whom God had elected unto salvation before the foundation of the earth.

That would turn an oxymoron into an even sillier “oxy-moronic” conclusion, for why would the elect want to be eternally accursed on behalf of the elect while they knew that the elect were sovereignly elected unto salvation before the foundation of the world, and that they would all unreservedly be saved because if they weren’t . . . God would be a dismal failure?

Why would anyone want to go to hell for the sake of those who were elected to go to heaven before the foundation of the earth? Both these scenarios- to be accursed for the non-elect or the elect – are, to say the least, an absolute absurdity.

What is Calvinism?

Calvinism in a nutshell:

  • It is clear that Christ did not die to make redemption a mere possibility; He died to actually save people.
  • God’s purpose cannot fail (Job 42:2; Isaiah 46:10).
  • Therefore every single person for whom He died, shall be saved.
  • Nevertheless, not all people are saved.
  • Consequently Christ did not die for all people. If it were true that He died for all people He would have been a failure.

The abovementioned conclusions are based on the assumption that man does not have a free-will in regard to his/her salvation. Any degree of free-will on the part of mankind would, according to Calvinist thinking, thwart God’s purpose and belittle his sovereignty to choose whomsoever He wants to save and whomsoever He wants to damn.

This is not only a gross misrepresentation of God’s sovereignty but also a distortion of the fact that man was created in His image. If God is the essence of love, which of course He is, and if his righteousness, justice and love are inseparably intertwined, which of course it is, then it would be unreasonable of Him to force his creatures into a relationship of love and obedience to Him.

The connubial relationship between a man and a woman is singularly the best proof that man was indeed created in the image of God. It not only exemplifies the fact that love can only be defined as true love when it is expressed in a reciprocal partnership, but also the deep truth that Jesus Christ’s Bride submits to Him in love, respect, adoration and worship because she truly loves Him from a heart that chooses to love Him for who He really is.

In order for his Bride to have learned who He really is, she must have come to a knowledge of Him and especially the knowledge of His sacrificial love as He expressed it on his cross. This is precisely why Jesus once said: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (Johan 17:3).

In spite of this, the Calvinists assert that God autonomously, arbitrarily and monergistically saves sinners on the basis that He chose them unto salvation before the foundation of the earth and that they have no will toward their redemption because they are dead in their sins and totally inept to understand, to know or to believe the Gospel.

The relationship between Christ and all the believers are often likened to a marital relationship between a man and a woman and there is a beautiful narrative in the Old Testament which typifies this relationship. There is no need to go into all the detail but suffice is to say that when Abraham sent his bond servant to find a wife for his son Isaac, Rebecca was not forced to go with him. She was asked whether she was willing to go with him.

And her brother and her mother said, Let the damsel abide with us a few days, at the least ten; after that she shall go. And he said unto them, Hinder me not, seeing the LORD hath prospered my way; send me away that I may go to my master. And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth. And they called Rebecca, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go. (Genesis 24: 48-59). (Emphasis added).

Would or could Rebecca have become Isaac’s wife if she had not been willing to leave her family and accompany Abraham’s servant? Are you married? If so . . . did you force your wife to marry you without allowing her to exercise her own free-will, or did you marry her because she had a mutual love for you?

Marriage is definitely not a one-sided arrangement. . . . or, did you first force your loved one to marry you and then irresistibly place the love you wanted her to have for you in her heart?

If you should agree that she had a mutual love for you which she exercised willingly prior to your marriage, why do you expect God to do far less than you, a mere human being? Because God is the essence of love, He will never monergistically impose or force his love on anyone. It is for this reason that man was given a free-will – to either love God with all his heart, mind and strength or to reject Him with all his heart, mind and strength.

Enforced love is no love at all. The notion that Christ did not die for all people but only for the elect who, by virtue of their total depravity, are completely unable to exercise. faith prior to their salvation, suggests that Christ’s crucifixion saves the elect automatically. Perhaps it would not be wrong to say that only elected automatons are  automatically saved by the crucifixion.

To some this may be something of an obnoxious over simplification . . . . but is there another way of explaining the core doctrine of Calvinism? What does the Word of God say?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out]. (Emphasis added)

“It is written” and “it is also written” are perhaps two of the most important and yet eschewed phrases in Scripture, at least as far as sound discernment is concerned. The well-known saying “every heretic has his own pet Bible verse” may be true but it is equally true that the phrase “it is also written” is one of the best ways to combat heresy. The Lord Jesus Christ used it against the devil when he tempted Him in the desert and every Christian should follow his example.

Mat 4: 5-7 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and placed Him on a turret (pinnacle, gable) of the temple sanctuary.And he said to Him, If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, He will give His angels charge over you, and they will bear you up on their hands, lest you strike your foot against a stone.Jesus said to him, on the other hand, it is written also, You shall not tempt, test thoroughly, or try exceedingly the Lord your God.

Many Christians are too easily convinced or bowled over by people who deftly quote Scripture without first evaluating the quoted sections with other similar passages in Scripture and to declare, as did Jesus, “it is also written.” In fact, the mark of a spiritually mature Christian is that he never takes everything for granted and always tests the things other people say, even when they back it up with Scripture.

1 Cor 2:15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].

Calvinists are particularly adroit in their use of certain elected passages in Scripture to prove to you that man is unable to make the right choices in regard to his salvation.

How can he when he is an automaton with no free-will of his own? One of their pet passages is Romans 3:10-12 where Paul says that no one seeks God. Yet Scripture also encourages sinners in equally important passages (Hebrews 11:6; Deuteronomy 4:2; Jeremiah 29:13) to seek God with all their hearts and that when they seek Him thus, they will find Him.

It stands to reason that Paul’s reasoning in Romans 3:10 to 12 is not to convince you that man is entirely unable to seek God but that he, due to his deeply ingrained self-centeredness, has no desire to seek after God. We find the very same reasoning in Job 21.

Job 21: 7-14 Why do the wicked live, become old, and become mighty in power? Their children are established with them in their sight, and their offspring before their eyes. Their houses are safe and in peace, without fear; neither is the rod of God upon them. Their bull breeds and fails not; their cows calve and do not miscarry.

They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children skip about. They themselves lift up their voices and sing to the tambourine and the lyre and rejoice to the sound of the pipe. They spend their days in prosperity and go down to Sheol (the unseen state) in a moment and peacefully. Yet they say to God, Depart from us, for we do not desire the knowledge of Your ways. (Emphasis added).

Complacency, utter self-centeredness and smugness are the reasons for man’s rejection of God and his ways and not a complete powerlessness or an inability to seek Him. God’s warning in Deuteronomy 6 is a stern reminder of God’s divine jealousy.

Deut 6:10-12 And when the Lord your God brings you into the land which He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give you, with great and goodly cities which you did not build, And houses full of all good things which you did not fill, and cisterns hewn out which you did not hew, and vineyards and olive trees which you did not plant, and when you eat and are full, Then beware lest you forget the Lord, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

If a complete inability to seek God was at the heart of man’s problems, God’s innate righteousness to judge impartially would have been at stake. Why would He encourage mankind to seek Him with all their heart when He had already decided before the foundation of the world to predestine the elect to an eternity of bliss in heaven and the non-elect to an eternity of suffering in hell?

In both cases the word “seek” inevitably becomes a complete misnomer. It loses it’s meaning altogether. According to Jesus’ indictment in John 3:18 to 21 fallen man’s refusal to seek Him does not stem form an innate inability to seek Him but from a rebellious stubbornness to come to His light so that their evil ways may be exposed and reproved.

John 3:18-21 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation-he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]

The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.

For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.

But he who practices truth [who does what is right] comes out into the Light; so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are-wrought with God [divinely prompted, done with God’s help, in dependence upon Him]. (Emphasis added).

The above serious indictment certainly proves that man is not impervious to the fact that he desperately needs to seek God; indeed, he refuses to seek God because he hates the light. He lives and operates in the dominion of the kingdom of darkness (this present world system) of which Satan is presently the god and has no desire to seek out God’s light so that his evil deeds may be seen for what they really are.

They shun God’s global invitation to come to Him so that their sins may be dealt with according to His divine requirements, and rather tells Him “Depart from us, for we do not desire the knowledge of Your ways.”

Salvation begins in a heart that contritely and humbly bows to the requirements of God’s Word which may be summed up in these words – willingness, acknowledgment, confession and whole-hearted responsiveness. Jesus once said that only those who know and acknowledge they are “sick” will acknowledge that they need a physician (Mark 2:17).

The sad irony is that everyone is desperately sick (Romans 3:23) but most people refuse to acknowledge that they need a physician. The Holy Spirit is ceaselessly working to convince the entire world of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8) but the majority deliberately shut Him out or seek other ways to enter into God’s presence.

In spite of man’s ability to understand and believe the Gospel but callously refuses to respond in faith to God’s global invitation to repent and believe the Gospel (Mark 1:15), Calvinism insists that man is totally depraved (dead in sin and trespasses) and consequently powerless to respond in faith to the requirements of the Gospel.

The only alternative, therefore (an alternative that does not jeopardize God’s sovereignty, they say) is to quicken only the elect arbitrarily and autonomously without them having to have faith in the Gospel and subsequently (after their regeneration) to be given faith as a gift. Below is a presentation of the Calvinists’ view of redemption and the biblical rendition thereof.



Total Depravity: Dead in sin and trespasses. Unable to understand and respond to the Gospel Dead in sin and trespasses. Listens and hears the Gospel
God intervenes autonomously in the life of the elect without conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. Holy Spirit convicts of sin righteousness and judgment
Autonomous (monergistic) regeneration of the elect by a sovereign intervention of God (Faith not involved) Convicted sinner responds in faith to the Gospel, comes to the Light of the world (Jesus Christ) and confesses his/her sins and lostness
God autonomously grants the elect the gift of faith subsequent to their autonomous or monergistic regeneration. Repentant sinner receives forgiveness for his/her sins and is cleansed by the blood of Christ
The elect begin to believe the Gospel Holy Spirit indwells repentant sinner. Thanksgiving and rejoicing
Sanctification (Perseverance of the saint)

Sanctification(Life-long work of the Spirit together with the saint’s obedience to God and his Word)

Is John Calvin’s ‘Calvinism’ a vile doctrine?

England’s King James who was by no means an Arminian expressed his repugnance of the doctrine of  predestination as follows:

This doctrine is so horrible, that I am persuaded, if there were a council of unclean spirits assembled in hell, and their prince the devil were to [ask] their opinion about the most likely means of stirring up the hatred of men against God their Maker; nothing could be invented by them that would be more efficacious for this purpose, or that could put a greater affront upon God’s love for mankind than that infamous decree of the late Synod . . . .  (Read here)

John Wesley said:

The doctrine of predestination as maintained by rigid Calvinists is very shocking, and ought utterly to be abhorred, because it changes the most holy God with being the author of sin. (Read here).

Make your own assessment of Calvinism when we are going to evaluate its doctrines in the light of Scripture in the next few commentaries. Meanwhile, you may be interested to read the following article on Calvin and his horrendous murder of Servetus here .

(1) John Piper and Pastoral Staff, :Tulip”: What we believe about the Five Points of Calvinism: Position Paper of the Pastoral Staff” (Desiring God Ministries, 1998), 14 (2) Op Cit, 14-15


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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

114 Responses

  1. Redeemed says:

    I have found that most believers I have met took some kind of detour in their walk that took them into some kind of abberrent teaching. But they came to realize that they had taken a wrong turn.

    This can happen at vulnerable times when one is not staying close to the Lord and are neglecting to stay in the Word. However, if the Holy Spirit is present He will convict and bring them out.

    I even know a person who turned to Judaism for a period of time of bitterness, but after a period of time came back to the truth and loved the Lord and His Word. Believers never stopped praying for her and didn’t give up on her.

    I can identify with those who make missteps in their Christian walk as I have had my share, but God always drew me back to the truth because I was His child. We are to display the fruit of the Holy Spirit of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc. while never tolerating false teaching.

  2. Paul (Continue in His Word) says:

    My question here was related to the article by Thomas Lessing, not Hunt.

    You said (and Redeemed echoed the same thing):

    if someone was genuinely saved, and they got trapped in the doctrine of Calvinism for a while (which means the Holy Spirit WILL lead them out of it)

    I agree with that 100%.

    But that is NOT what Thomas is saying. Absolutely not.
    He is saying that someone got saved, later became a permanent Calvinist and went about spreading the damnable heresy of Calvinism.

    To me, what you said (that I quoted above) doesn’t seem to be what Dave Hunt said neither. Even the additional quote from the end of Hunt’s Q&A does not say that “a person can get saved, then become a Calvinist FOR A WHILE (which means the Holy Spirit WILL lead him out of it sooner or later)”

    You asked:

    Is this not what David Hunt is saying, that people who are genuinely saved and get trapped in Calvinism, will sooner or later leave it because they are saved?

    My honest answer is: NO, it is not what Dave is saying. Except I do not understand English anymore.

  3. Truthful Conversation says:

    Are you guys serious? You have never heard of Corrie Ten Boom? Here is a little info on Corrie:

    Anyway, she was anti-pretrib. I think my parents had one of her books when I was a child.

  4. Paul

    Paul, I am thinking about this LOGICALLY and reading the sentence logically. If someone was GENUINELY SAVED before they got trapped in Calvinism, then the person will REMAIN SAVED because they have the Holy Spirit abiding in them – it’s LOGICAL. This is how I read that sentence and this is how that sentence should be read.

    I have contacted Tom Lessing and asked him to come and explain what he means.

  5. Paul

    Here is a reply from Tom Lessing and it’s just like I said…and the same applies to Dave Hunt’s quotes. If the person is genuinely saved and they land up in Calvinism the Holy Spirit abiding in them will lead them out – BECAUSE they ARE saved.

    From: Tom Lessing
    Sent: 06 March 2013 11:09 AM
    To: Discerning the World
    Subject: Re: A commenter said this…

    What we ought to bear in mind are Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:4 “Take heed that no man deceive you.” Here He was speaking to his disciples. And when we look at Peter, the apostle to whom He gave the keys of heaven, it is evident that even the most illustrious can be deceived. “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Gal 2:11-14).

    Here we have two beautiful children of God, Peter and Barnabas, who were led astray by the wiles of the devil. What we fail to see is that Peter was actually returning to a kind of Jewish Calvinism, if you will, that believed they (the Jews) were the chosen ones whilst the Gentiles were the reprobates. So, to them it was an abomination to even eat with the uncircumcized Gentiles. I don’t know whether you’ve followed my discussion with some of the most ardent Calvinists on Facebook? Eventually they too cut me off, cut me away and separated them from me and finally blocked me on their Facebook Walls because I have the spirit of Lucifer, I am the Antichrist, a moron and an evil man beyond evil (a reprobate). Although brother Peter did not call the Gentiles all those names, he too was guilty of cutting the Gentiles off, cutting them away and avoiding the so-called reprobates. This is a most astonnishing thing. Think of it. Here’s a man who knew the voice of his shephard and whom Jesus promised: “the Spirit of truth, will guide you into all truth” and yet he made a booboo of everything. Why was it such a terrfible thing Peter had done? He was actually denying the fundamental prerequisite for salvation for all of mankind – FAITH AND FAITH ALONE. And yet he thought he could add something to it and that “it” was to separate himself from the Gentiles (unclean animals). Duh!!!

    There are many tender children of God who’ve been led astray by false teachers simply because they haven’t been grounded in the truth. But doesn’t the Holy Spirit guide them in all truth? Yes, in Peter’s case it was Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit and grounded in his truth, that stopped Peter in his tracks to fall even deeper into apostasy. Perhaps we should find more Pauls in our day and age to help those poor little lambs who have been led astray. But what about the silent inner warnings of the Holy Spirit? Isn’t his deep inner warnings sufficient to keep his children on track? My wife, for instance, says that she’s been made aware of things by experiencing an uneasy feeling in her heart when attendeding meetings with her freinds. She cannot pinpoint it but then she usually comes to me and by the grace of God I am able to help her and warn her against those errors. Unfortunately not all of God’s children have husbands or wives who can help them in this way. The result is that they, by the cunning of these false apostles, are easily led astray. If it could heppen to Peter, it can happen to anyone.

    There are countless children of God out there who have fallen prey to the charisma and oratory flair of false teachers. Are they to blame for there own falling away into the hands of false teachers? Of course they are. BUT, I am confident that those who have been saved before they became involved in Calvinism or any other false teaching WILL eventually be led out by the Holy Spirit into the glorious light of his Gospel. Our duty is to warn, in the love of the Lord, those who have fallen prey to these false teachers and to be in tears before the Lord, night and day, so that God may snatch them from the clutches of these wolves in sheep’s clothing. You may be interested to the follwoing testimony:

    I am a little pressed for time at the moment. I have to prepare something for our little Bible study group today. If there is anything you do not agree with me, say so and we will discuss it further.

    God bless


  6. Thomas

    Nope, it’s a perfect comment and EXACTLY what I thought you meant! 🙂

  7. Redeemed says:

    Tom, your comment reflects your heart for God’s precious people and it should be the cry of our hearts as well. Indeed you are spot on that we so need more Paul types and other heroes of the faith to labor in the fields not only to take the pure Gospel to the lost but to disciple and ground the converted in the faith and to guard against false teaching.

    There are so many voices drowning out the still small voice of the Holy Spirit and the sensitivity that we as believers need to stay on track. The result is disastrous.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and the efforts you are making to defend the faith and stand for truth.

  8. Paul (Continue in His Word) says:

    Tom Lessing wrote:

    BUT, I am confident that those who have been saved before they became involved in Calvinism or any other false teaching WILL eventually be led out by the Holy Spirit into the glorious light of his Gospel. Our duty is to warn, in the love of the Lord, those who have fallen prey to these false teachers and to be in tears before the Lord, night and day, so that God may snatch them from the clutches of these wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    I say a resounding Amen to that! Since I was snatched from the clutches of Charismania-Tongues-Dominionism-Pentecostalism, that is what I have been doing, with little or zero success so far.

    You would have done a great service to add that “BUT” to the paragraph of the article I quoted in #89, and I would recommend you do so.
    If not, that paragraph can (and will) be misunderstood and misinterpreted. Indeed, the whole article does not convey what you have just stated so clearly. Does it?

    Another thing is that we are living in the Great Apostasy now, and it is difficult to discern these “countless(?) children of God out there who have fallen prey to the charisma and oratory flair of false teachers”, from the multitudes to whom God has sent strong delusion that they may believe the lie (ie embrace the countless false “christs” and false “spirits” who are out there) because they loved not the truth to be saved.
    I personally believe there are not “countless”, but instead a “few” remnant.
    Maybe at you level you are seeing “countless” people turning from deception to the glorious light of the Gospel. From my perspective I am seeing the contrary.

    In Christ.

  9. Paul

    ‘Countless’is an ‘untold number’ It could mean any number, from a few (but still countless number of people) to many. Tom knows its a FEW. Again, please APPLY LOGIC when reading.

  10. Paul

    >> that is what I have been doing, with little or zero success so far.

    Your little jabs at me are really beginning to irritate me. I am not willing to run head on into ‘all your information’ without thorough investigation from my side, and I take my time and I look at everything from all angles. I am allowing you to comment, I call that a success. Soon you might find yourself commenting elsewhere…

  11. Paul (Continue in His Word) says:

    You misunderstand my statement completely in implying that I am referring to you or anyone else on this blog.
    The “that is what I have been doing, with little or zero success so far” obviously refer to the people I have left in the Charismania-Tongues-Dominionism-Pentecostalism movements I was part of.

    For the “countless” and “untold number” qualifications, my understanding is that those expressions are generally used in reference to a very large amount of people. But I will rest it there.

    Can you point to me my “little jabs” at you? It is normal that we disagree on some points. I do not agree on everything you’ve posted on this blog, but that does not make us enemies, or we cease to be brothers and sisters in Christ.

  12. Redeemed says:

    Now Paul adds Thomas Lessing to his hit list. And again, he is straining at gnats and splitting hairs and devouring instead of discerning.

    The more Paul speaks the clearer his modus operandi becomes and his critical spirit rears its ugly head. I can only hope and pray that He takes some time out to go to his prayer closet and listen to the still small voice of the Holy Spirit. And that doesn’t mean contemplative prayer or mystical activity. Thought had better state that or would get accused of promoting error.

    It pains me to rebuke a brother in Christ, but Paul gives us no choice and it is meant for his own edification. If any enemy of the cross should get the wrong impression after reading this, they should know that Christian love is not always warm and fuzzy. Just because we issue a rebuke does not mean that we do not love this brother, but we love our Lord more.

  13. Carolyn says:

    Debs. LOL…keep your left up…

    Running a discernment web like you do, is certainly not for the faint of heart. I really appreciate how you’ve handled the whole situation. There’s been a few buttons pushed and attention to logic is most essential to prevent chaos and confusion. Slow and steady progress toward the finish line. Truth will win…it’s just a matter of time.

  14. Carolyn says:

    Tom…the link to Brenda’s deliverance from Calvinism is just another confirmation of truth. Thanks for posting. I noted what she said in her conclusions about the lie of unconditional election:

    Quote: “Once the stronghold of unconditional election was broken, I was finally able to comprehend what I had been involved with. I’ve spent a great deal of effort since that time educating myself about what Reformed theology is all about. I found that unconditional election is the entry point into this system of theology through Calvinism. Since Calvinism describes the way a person is saved, it becomes the gospel and foundation for Reformed theology.

    Reformed theology is more properly known as Covenant theology, which postulates God made three other major covenants (in addition to the six He made with Israel) that can’t be found in the Bible with chapter and verse. These additional inferred covenants define how God elected some for salvation while letting the rest go to hell (Covenant of Redemption), how God promises salvation for obedience (Covenant of Works), and how since man can’t obey, God through Christ provided obedience actively in His life and passively through His death for salvation (Covenant of Grace). Both His life and death are said to contribute to salvation. The Bible teaches that Christ’s one act of obedience on the cross provided atonement for sins. These postulated covenants lay the groundwork for salvation through election and law keeping righteousness. In essence, these three additional covenants skew God’s plan for mankind to the point where Reformed theology can justify not only Calvinistic election and reprobation (not choosing to save some), but also for replacement theology where the church replaces Israel, the tribulation happening in 70 A.D. and the kingdom promises occurring for the church today. This complicated theology cannot be defended if Calvinistic election is false.

    Unconditional election has been brought forward to our day from the 16th century reformation of Catholicism. The reformers learned it from Augustine who very likely learned election and predestination from the Manichean cult he was involved in prior to converting to Roman Catholicism. These concepts of election and predestination are not new, but very old being found in antiquity as enlightenment, elitism and fate. Augustine, who blended Christianity with neo Platonist philosophies, is not only responsible for many of the errors of Roman Catholicism, but also for many of the teachings found in its reformation. Sadly, much of Catholicism was retained, only redefined, in the Protestant Reformation so that many of its denominations today are merely degrees of separation from the Roman church. The despair of Lordship salvation yeilds the same hopelessness Roman Catholics experience if they take their doctrine seriously.

    Thankfully, the Lord has delivered me and revealed to me the true face of Calvinism. Today, I’m at rest in the love of Christ when I fail. I sleep well at night and no longer fear condemnation. Christ’s blood, shed for all men, completely cleanses my conscience of guilt by faith. The pure truth of His Word gives me great joy, assurance and life. Having been humbled, I am better able to give love and show mercy to others who sin. Suffering teaches me lessons about the deep and abiding love Christ has for all His children. I thank the Lord often for His goodness in forgiving and delivering me from entangling deception.”

  15. Paul (Continue in His Word) says:

    In my previous comment I meant to write:
    For the “countless” qualification, my understanding is that it is generally used in reference to a very large number of people, because that it what seems to be the definition of the word: “Too many to be counted; very many”

  16. Paul

    Oh, sorry I do apologise! Sorry.

  17. Carolyn says:

    I know Calvinists define the Christian faith. But what defines the Calvinist? If it is not love, then their definition of the Christian faith is meaningless.

    Same goes for any Professing Christian…if the fruit of the Spirit is not evident, they are not filled with the Spirit, therefore they are not Christians.

    Any other questions?

  18. Redeemed says:

    Re: Caolyn’s 107

    Thanks for bringing this out as it is important to see the testimony of one who has come out of this horrible deceitful doctrine. I sure don’t see any testimonies from people who say they have been delivered from the works of Dave Hunt.
    His critics are those who say he is a false teacher because he believes in eternal security of the believer or other points of doctrine that are biblical truth. What does that tell us?

    You are right and Dave is right. Where is the love? There is no love in TULIP. There was no love in Calvin. It is a false Gospel, plain and simple, concocted by Satan, twisting Scriptures the better to deceive. These are the TRUE deceivers.

  19. Paul (Continue in His Word) says:

    Redeemed wrote:

    Now Paul adds Thomas Lessing to his hit list. And again, he is straining at gnats and splitting hairs and devouring instead of discerning.

    The more Paul speaks the clearer his modus operandi becomes and his critical spirit rears its ugly head…

    I would be curious to see if Thomas Lessing would share your sentiment towards me if ever he read my inquiry about his article. I actually first tried to post my question on his blog directly, but comments were closed, therefore I posted it here.

    @Thomas, if you echo what Redeemed wrote in #105, then I sincerely apologize. It was not my intention to “pick you apart” or put you in an imaginary “hit list” or “devour” you as alleged by Redeemed. I asked a sincere question, and thanks to Debs for forwarding my inquiry to Thomas, and I am very pleased that Thomas answered me and didn’t judge my motives.

    This is too sad, as I don’t expect such an attitude from a person who otherwise is very gracious.

  20. Redeemed says:

    Paul, I didn’t mean to judge your heart or motives because that is usurping what belongs only to God.

    However, there is a pattern of behavior here that just looks for things to pick at instead of looking at the bigger picture. I would equate it to an art critic examining a painting. The picture viewed as a whole is a quality work of art. But if one takes out a magnifying glass and finds a flaw here and a flaw there and points it out and dwells on it, he fails to appreciate the work as a whole.

    To quibble over a word is just plain silly. There are so few who stand for truth in this apostasy and we need to not go looking for flaws. We all have them. But unless they can cause someone to stumble, why not show love and not make an issue of it?

    Making mountains out of molehills is not helpful or edifying for the Body of Christ. It can discourage someone who is seeking to serve the Lord.

    Tom has written an edifying article here and it serves no purpose to pick out what one perceives to be a flaw and is distracting from the important work needed to expose an evil doctrine that is doing great damage.

    I am not saying you are deliberately trying to do this, and that is exactly why I suggested you back off and make an effort to make truly constructive contributions to the discussion. I am sure you have much to say that would be helpful to us. That is what is needed Paul.

    I have appreciated especially what Caroyn has brought to the discussion. She seems to try and look at the conversation objectively.

    Again, I am not judging you brother, but I did issue a rebuke because I thought it was appropriate and necessary. Not because I am more spiritual, because I would shrink from even implying that. We are here to help one another and support those who are telling the truth and expose those who are not. Engaging in “friendly fire” is destructive rather than constructive.

    I admit I tend to speak with uncontrolled zeal at times, but I am making an effort here to carefully state what is driving my comments.

  21. Carolyn says:

    @ Redeemed – “I have appreciated especially what Caroyn has brought to the discussion. She seems to try and look at the conversation objectively.”

    Thanks for that. Once upon a time, some wise person taught me to keep my emotions out of it. That is not so easy for the female gender, but definitely possible. One thing I remember, is that the offence is to the gospel, not to me personally. I don’t hate people, I hate lies and deception. If we can hear what the Spirit has to say through his word, instead of our opinions, it helps to keep us on track. We don’t get side lined into politics, office or otherwise. Also, close to my remembrance are all my own mistakes and I’m so thankful for the way God has loved me in spite of my failures. Keeps me humble (sort of). We’re all learning as we go. I still have a long way to go before I reach perfection….

    Jude 1:22-24 NIV
    22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

  22. Sharon says:

    Who did God choose? He chose those who received His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ as their savior. That is who God chooses. His being the supreme Sovereign is not threatened by our Free Will since it was God that gave us our free will. Those in hell are in hell for one reason and that being their rejecting Jesus Christ. The Atonement was NOT limited. Jesus did not fail. We who have received Him will be with him forever. Those who do not receive Him as Savior will be “without excuse” because their sin was atoned for. How sad to go to hell and the price of your salvation was already paid.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:


    Again you say you do not believe that God predestines anyone to Hell, (but that is not the important part Sylesa), the important part is that Calvinists believe God predestines people to be saved and THIS IS THE CRUX OF TULIP and CALVINISM.

    Do you believe you are CHOSEN, YES or NO ?

  23. Sharon says:

    Perhaps this is already listed by someone so please forgive if it has been.

    Read below and see if this is a biblical confession of a persons salvation experience and profession.

    The Salvation Professions of John Calvin:

    God by a sudden conversion subdued and brought my mind to a teachable frame, which was more hardened in such matters than might have been expected from one at my early period of life. Having thus received some taste and knowledge of true godliness, I was immediately inflamed with so intense a desire to make progress therein, that although I did not altogether leave off other studies, yet I pursued them with less ardor.

    As with Augustine there is no mention of Jesus Christ. No mention of repentance or sorrow over sin.

    In his second account he speaks of a long process of inner turmoil, followed by spiritual and psychological anguish.

    Being exceedingly alarmed at the misery into which I had fallen, and much more at that which threatened me in view of eternal death, I, duty bound, made it my first business to betake myself to your way, condemning my past life, not without groans and tears. And now, O Lord, what remains to a wretch like me, but instead of defense, earnestly to supplicate you not to judge that fearful abandonment of your Word according to its deserts, from which in your wondrous goodness you have at last delivered me.

    Here we go again. No mention of Jesus Christ. No repentance of sin just his groaning over it. His duty to take himself to your way.

    I would never say that he had not been saved. But it is interesting to read.

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